Total number of comments: 278 (since 2010-05-04 13:40:08)
Miss Dee Mena
Journalist based in the Mideast. Currently living in Ramallah and covering the West Bank and Gaza.
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He said "Amandla" which is Zulu/Xhosa for "power". This chant, together with a clenched fist, was the slogan of anti-Apartheid campaigners during the fight against the previous racist government.
Please support Archbishop Desmond Tutu who is being smeared by Israeli apartheid supporters.
Could you read this and consider signing electronically to support Tutu? He is being victimised by the South African zionist organisation for standing up for Palestinian human rights.
Here is the link: link to thepetitionsite.com
This is the reason that several readers and posters (who are on the ground and could contribute significantly to this site) no longer frequent this site. The feeding and stroking of this attention- seeking troll, and several others, who appear to have no life outside of this website and appear to relish being the centre of attention, has become nauseating.
Too many posts are dedicated to its posts, comments about its posts, responding to it or discussing it ad nauseum. I don't advocate banning at all but do argue in favour of depriving vacuous attention whores of the oxygen that they flourish on.
Furthermore, when some of the trolls attack that seems to pass the censor/s easily but when counter-attacks are posted the censor/s seem to get all self-righteous.
Right Red. Resolutions passed by the UN do represent international law as does the Geneva Convention and the International Court at the Hague. The UN represents the concensus of international governmental opinion, or the nearest thereto.
Practically every nation state in the world is a member of the UN. I don't know of any other international organisation that comes closer to representing the views of the world's governments. In fact if the UN didn't represent international law then the organisation's recognition of the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948 would be null and void making Israel an illegal state. Funny how Israeli supporters acknowledge international law when it suits them and not at other times:)
David the I/P conflict is not an even playing field. Please don't equate the occupiers with the occupied. Neither compare the world's fourth most powerful military with armed groups.
Having said this nobody disputes attacking civilians is wrong. But you are being obtuse in refusing to acknowledge the possibility that armed, military-trained settlers who serve in the IDF and work closely with the IDF to kill Palestinian civilians, steal their land and commit various other atrocities as a collective organisation known as the Yesha Council of Settlers could be legitimate targets. Even if as individuals (like soldiers in the IDF) they might not have carried out these crimes in a personal capacity. Again I refer specifically to the male settlers.
I wonder if you can answer the following question honestly? If a group of armed Lebanese farmers (not belonging to any organisation) crossed the Israeli border and some of the farmers as individuals killed some Israeli civilians, moved into Israeli towns and took over land and apartment buildings and kicked the Israelis out, would they in your eyes be a legitimate military target for the IDF to shoot and kill? And if so would they have to be in the act of killing/stealing/plundering to be a legitimate military target or would killing them as they ate dinner and presented no immediate threat be a crime?
I think we both know that before they even made it over the border they would be shot dead by the IDF and that very few people would be outraged.
Walid we appear to be going around in circles here as well as being stuck on repeat. Nobody was talking about attacking civilians but armed settlers and IDF personnel. And again a large portion of Israelis are against the settlements and are willing to give them up. They are not as fanatical as the settlers.
Walid the Israeli government is heavily responsible for sponsoring, financing and arming the settlers. But it's very hard to shoot members of the Israeli government. However, the settlers are the ones causing the most mayhem in the West Bank not the Israeli population in general. They are the ones killing, stealing and plundering. The whole argument was about whether those settlers trained, financed and armed by the IDF are as legitimate a target as are IDF soldiers. I maintain they are as outlined in previous posts.
However, I do think Palestinians' right to fight the settlers is not furthering the cause at present but that does not negate from the legitimacy of the armed struggle.
I've already stated that settler women and children don't fit into the category of legitimate armed targets. They bear responsibility for the occupation in other ways. However, most of the men are armed and just because they drive with their weapons in an unmarked civilian vehicle doesn't change this fact.
Again, I don't think Hamas' move was smart politically speaking but I think targeting armed male settlers is legitimate for reasons I have already outlined in several posts. And I do agree with you from a political perspective that the Israelis are milking this move for all they're worth politically.
Let's clarify the claim about word games and look at the facts. Many settlers are currently doing their three-year national service in the IDF ergo they are soldiers. Many other settlers do a month's reserve duties in the IDF when they have completed their compulsory three-year service until the age of 40. They too are soldiers then. In between those periods they are heavily armed and use their weapons against Palestinian civilians. Some are even in the IDF reserves after the age of 40.
Please expand on how a militarily trained and IDF armed settler who has served/is serving/continues to serve in the IDF and carries weapons most of the time and doesn't hesitate to use these weapons is less of a legitimate military target than a non-settler IDF enlisted soldier.
David I have thought more deeply about our discussion yesterday vis a vis the attack on the settlers and I've come to the conclusion that I don't and won't condemn - from a moral stand point although I will criticise the move from a political stand point - Hamas for attacking armed Israeli settlers as I believe they are a legitimate military target. The unarmed women and children are a different matter.
There is a strong possibility that if Hamas was given $3 billion in aid annually, F16s, Apache helicopters and various other military hardware as well as massive military donations from other US budgets Hamas would give up the suicide attacks and the shooting of settlers at point blank range. Let's not forget the first modern-day founders of terrorism were the Irgun and Stern gangs who used terrorism to steal, kill and ethnically cleanse Palestine so that they could establish a Jewish state.
My reasoning is as follows: I'm sure there are many IDF soldiers who are probably decent people and have never killed or brutalised Palestinians. However, as they are a collective armed organisation trained to fight and they target Palestinians indiscriminately they are a legitimate target.
The male settlers too are largely armed and trained and serve in the IDF as well. They work in collaboration with the IDF from their quasi-military outposts. These armed settlers as a collective organisation known as the Yesha Council are using force of arms to steal, kill and plunder. Ergo they are bordering on the category that the IDF soldiers fall into and therefore, in my opinion, are a legitimate target. Palestinians have the right to fight armed occupiers.
P/I conflict
I've just returned from the village of Bani Naim which is currently encircled by the IDF. The attack on the settlers was very stupid from a political point of view as it gives ammunition to both the intransigent Israeli government to sell itself once again as a "victim" in the P/A conflict. It also allows the settlers to pull the victim card.
However, I don't for a nano-second buy the theory of the settlers being "innocent civilians" apart from perhaps the women and children. The men carry weapons and they serve in the IDF. The settlements are quasi-military outposts. When you have seen a Palestinian village under curfew as six of these "innocent civilians" march through the streets armed to the teeth shooting randomly and often killing; burning fields; slaughtering livestock; vandalising mosques; poisoning wells; running over and killing many pedestrians in apparent "accidents" and stealing land and homes, the concept of "innocent" flies by the way.
Although the shooting of the pregnant woman was indefensible, the huge outcry over the death of a few Israeli civilians compared to the almost daily killing of Palestinian civilians which hardly makes the news is nauseating in its hypocrisy. Spare me the double-standards already. It is high time these nasty, illegal squatters got the hell out of the West Bank and left the locals alone.
If one wanted to be really vindictive one could argue that the Palestinians have a load of slaughtering to do to even begin to catch up fractionally with the large numbers of civilians killed by the IDF.
Sumud he's the lowest of the low. A troll with delusions of grandeur when he should be contemplating delusions of adequacy instead. There is nothing worse than a racist who tries to disguise his bigotry in civility and pretentious terms. I ignore his existence and wish others would stop feeding and stroking his gargantuan ego and making him feel relevant. But this is freedom of speech I guess.
Right Chaos. We all know that all of the more than 1,400 Palestinians killed in Gaza during Operation Cast Lead were Hamas members including the 300+ children killed.
And again the settlers belong to the Yesha Council of Settlers, an organisation, which armed to the teeth works in conjunction with the IDF by using force of arms to kill, steal and plunder. Excuse me while I barf at the continuing hypocrisy and double-standards.
I see your point. I guess it boils down to settler support and responsibility in general for an iniquitous apartheid system that sometimes involves murder (even if they have not committed the murders in person), land-theft etc. Much like the civilian contractors in Iraq bear some responsibility (even if indirectly) for supporting the invasion of Iraq which has resulted in mass murder etc.
My main point is the hypocrites of the White House and to a lesser extent the EU when Palestinians are by far the main victims of indiscriminate murder.
David I was referring more to the general attitude internationally vis a vis the double-standards and hypocrisy, not you as such.
However, I take exception to your claim that the settlers are not guilty of capital offenses. Indeed they are. Many Palestinian civilians have been killed in cold blood under questionable circumstances by the settlers who have for the most part not been brought to trial and in the few cases they have, they have been slapped on the wrist.
I've followed up at least three cases in the West Bank this year alone where settlers murdered Palestinians and self-defence was not the issue. You can validate this by checking out B'tselem and other Israeli human rights organisations.
Case in point Baruch Goldstein (I know he couldn't be brought to justice as he was beaten to death in retaliation).
I'm posting this twice as the double-standards and hypocrisy make me want to pull my hair out.
I’ve just returned from the village of Bani Naim which is currently encircled by the IDF. The attack on the settlers was very stupid from a political point of view as it gives ammunition to both the intransigent Israeli government to sell itself once again as a “victim” in the P/I conflict. It also allows the settlers to pull the victim card.
However, I don’t for a nano-second buy the theory of the settlers being “innocent civilians” apart from perhaps the women and children. The men carry weapons and they serve in the IDF. The settlements are quasi-military outposts. When you have seen a Palestinian village under curfew as six of these “innocent civilians” march through the streets armed to the teeth shooting randomly and often killing; burning fields; slaughtering livestock; vandalising mosques; poisoning wells; running over and killing many pedestrians in apparent “accidents” and stealing land and homes, the concept of “innocent” flies by the way.
Although the shooting of the pregnant woman was indefensible, the huge outcry over the death of a few Israeli civilians compared to the almost daily killing of Palestinian civilians which hardly makes the news is nauseating in its hypocrisy. Spare me the double-standards already. It is high time these nasty, illegal squatters got the hell out of the West Bank and left the locals alone.
If one wanted to be really vindictive one could argue that the Palestinians have a load of slaughtering to do to even begin to catch up fractionally with the large numbers of civilians killed by the IDF.
Palestinian refugees in Lebanon, however, are still not able to work as doctors, engineers and lawyers amongst a few other elite professions which are still closed to them.
There very much is a thing called international law. It falls under the jurisdiction of the Geneva Convention and UN resolutions. Most nations, including Israel, are signatories to the GC and members of the UN. The rulings of the Geneva Convention and UN resolutions are also applied by the International Court at the Hague when there are international disputes which nations can not resolve. By signing the Geneva Convention and continuing to be members of the UN, nations are obliged to follow the legal rulings of these international bodies.
That is why Israel is in continual violation of international law because it refuses to abide by UN resolutions and the Geneva Convention regarding occupied Palestinian land. It has also defied the International Court of the Hague which has ruled that the separation barrier is illegal. Unfortunately there is little that these international bodies appear to be able to do to enforce international law.
Talking of the new posting rules and Hasbara attention whores and trolls such as the individual above whose posts I ignore but can't fail to see taking up lots of posting space:
I will take bad language and cursing any day from a sincere individual who can simultaneously argue logically and contributes to a debate over the polite, pretentious and phony morality of individuals with hidden agendas who disrupt real and logical debate with their long-winded non-sequiturs and efforts to be the centre of attention.
Sort of like the British keeping a stiff upper lip and being ultra-polite at a tea party while they were massacring the natives. "At least we were civil about it."
I find the obsession by Americans over a bit of bad language rather anal. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water by making it appearances over substance.
I think it is very important to remember that the BDS campaign against Israel is only now starting to work and still at a very low level. Israelis have not yet felt the full effect of a strong BDS campaign at a broad international level. So at present the only effects are bruised egos and hurt feelings. Poor darlings.
I spent many years working and living in South Africa when the apartheid government was in control before and after sanctions were applied. I would argue that the majority of Afrikaaners or Boers supported the apartheid system. They were extremely tough having spent 400 years in a hostile environment and some having being persecuted as French Huegenots before fleeing to South Africa. Their kind of toughness was not the Israeli toughness of "I have a big gun and I'm armed with the latest advanced American military hardware" etc. but genuine toughness.
At the beginning they were also full of bravado and contempt for the sanctions campaign and spoke about defying it forever. That was until the sanctions REALLY BEGAN TO BITE. Then it was a question of survival and they were not stupid.
The same can be argued for the Israelis. When it is a question of their economy sinking, their military weakening and their country's very survival at stake due to a harsh BDS campaign, they will start suddenly appreciating that the world means business. They are also not that stupid.
Don't ever underestimate how very dependent Israel is on the US and to a lesser extent the rest of the world both politically, economically and militarily.
The BDS campaign needs to BEGIN TO REALLY BITE and then Israelis will not be able to afford to behave like the spoiled brats they in general are.
He appears to have an Arab-Israeli name so in that case he is probably not a member of Israel First.
I wouldn't be too sure about the US not coming to Israel's defence in light of a preemptive attack by the latter on Iran if the Israeli government can successfully persuade the US of the necessity thereof.
However, that is why I also mentioned some kind of staged provocation cooked up by the Israelis in which Israel appears to be the victim and "has to respond" in "self-defence". You know Gulf of Tonkin kind of thing.
I think Israel's eagerness for military action is underscored by Ehud Barak wanting to launch a big assault on Lebanon following the recent border skirmish on the Israeli/Lebanon border. He was stopped at the last minute.
Added to the stable of the unstable that constitute the Israeli government is the fickle, unpredictable and opportunistic minister of defence, Ehud Barak. He is a snake in the grass.
He was instrumental in the excessive bombing of Gaza during Cast Lead, along with Lady Tzipi Livni Macbeth. They wanted the operation to continue when Ehud Olmert wanted it stopped. Barak was also instrumental in the disinformation campaign re the alleged "generosity" of Israel during the 1999/2000 negotiations with the Palestinians.
More to the point Barak was eager to carry out a strong military attack on Lebanon following the recent border skirmish "to teach the Lebanese army a lesson". He was pulled back by Sarkozy and the US in addition to others.
Read any inflamed incident on Israel's northern border as a trigger and flash point for broader action very possibly involving Syria and Iran as well as the US.
The US long ago stated that in the event of a war between Israel and Iran it would come to Israel's defence.
Israel might not attack Iran soon but I believe an attack is inevitable and probably within a year. An "unfortunate" incident i.e. read "accidental" provocation will most likely kick proceedings off.
And as for the reference "One possible response by the Qods force is spectacular terrorist-style attacks against American intelligence bases and assets throughout the region": why is it when those attacked by Israel and the US respond against American or Israeli forces is it referred to as "terrorism"? The double standards are irritating.
And Iran has already offered to fill the gap as I strongly suspected they would. Smart move democrats. Your game of blackmail appears to be backfiring and could come back to bite you on the arse.
These people that call non-Jews offensive names like shiksa, and goyem which is used as an insulting term in Israel, would be up in arms if the term kikes was applied to them. The double standard irritates me in the extreme.
I find your post quite contradictory.
First the implication that the border police are just another law enforcement agency carrying out their work is not true. Comparing them to Swiss police is erroneous. The border police are a paramilitary police unit renowned for their brutality and their thuggish behaviour. I've heard Israelis dismissing them as uneducated bullies who wouldn't get a job elsewhere. I know these elements exist in all police forces around the world but this unit specialises in this behaviour and enforces an apartheid regime.
You need only to visit the websites of various Israeli and international human rights groups to view a long history of meticulously documented and unnecessary violence perpetrated against Palestinian civilians.
Second the implication they were just carrying out their duty ignores the daily violence and institutionalised racism that they help to enforce. Several weeks ago during the home evictions in Silwan in East Jerusalem I interviewed a family and took pics of two small boys who had been assaulted by the border police during clashes with Palestinian youths. One five-year-old boy had a large lump on his head where he had been hit with the back of an M16 by a border policeman. He had to have three stitches. Another four year old boy had gashes on his arm from shards of glass after the border police smashed a window in their kitchen.
These families are living in fear of eviction any minute by extremist settlers backed by the border police. To say these children are traumatised would be putting it mildly. This kind of brutality and these confrontations take place all over the West Bank on a daily basis.
I was beaten up by three border policemen several years ago when I tried to film a group of them beating up a Palestinian in the heart of Jerusalem. I got off lightly with slaps, punches and having my head knocked against a wall which left me semi-concussed and vomiting. If they can do this to a white, blonde woman with a Western passport in the heart of a tourist area, I need not explain what they would do to a brown Palestinian in Nablus.
Which this brings me to the point about the alleged "obsession" with Israel. I'm not aware of the Swiss police carrying out ethnic cleansing or the arrest, brutalisation and killing of children on a very regular basis where there was no legitimate threat to their security.
And in regard to the "excessive emotionality". Au contraire. I think for far too long there has been way too much apathy and indifference to what is being done to the Palestinians. While excessive emotionalism can be pointless, if people are outraged enough perhaps they will be motivated to do something about an iniquitous situation.
I've seen stone-throwing Palestinian youths chase off armed Israeli border guards who had been trying to catch them on foot. Of course they returned about ten minutes later in their jeeps with reinforcements.
Who shot first? I was crossing through the Erez crossing into northern Gaza last week. The distance between the Erez crossing and the first Hamas checkpoint in northern Gaza is about a kilometre. Alongside the caged concrete pathway that visitors entering Gaza have to take were several groups of unarmed boys and young men collecting rubble, steel and concrete aggregates from the remains of homes and buildings destroyed during Cast Lead.
They were well within Israel's self-declared 300 metre "security zone" and clearly visible to the Israeli soldiers stationed in the concrete pillar-box towers just about a hundred metres away. I've witnessed these kids being shot at before, when passing through, by the soldiers stationed in the towers, and wondered why the soldiers were not shooting at this particular moment as is their alleged policy.
It was clear that the kids were no threat and not fighters and it appeared that this policy is sometimes arbitrary and depends on the mood of the soldiers in the pill-boxes. After the group of journalists and NGOS had passed into northern Gaza two kids collecting rubble were shot right near the Erez border. So desperate are they to try and eke out a few shekels to survive by selling the rubble in the market.
On returning from Gaza we crossed the border via Beit Hanoun where several rockets had just been fired at Israel half an hour before hand unbeknown to us. Again in the area of no-man's land between the crossings several groups of boys were collecting rubble metres apart and no shots were fired even though the missiles fired from a nearby vicinity had just hit Ahkelon.
However, we were amongst the last group of foreigners to pass through as the border closed shortly after for Shabbat. Several hours later another kid collecting rubble was shot in the exact same vicinity. I wondered if the presence of journalists and NGOs also influenced the decision of the Israelis not to shoot while we were there. Before being able to cross from one side to the other our movements are coordinated between the Palestinian Authority liaison office and Israeli security officials so they know well ahead of time who is crossing.
Now my point is if these kids had been a threat the Israelis would have shot them immediately. Following Israel's logic re the Lebanese border incident, if the Israelis can shoot at kids well within their own territory of the Gaza strip who present no threat but are merely trying to survive, wouldn't Hamas be perfectly justified in responding to this unprovoked Israeli aggression by launching a barrage of rockets at Israel in retaliation?
Actually the Israelis take Nasrallah seriously too. Not because they like him but because they know he is credible. When he makes speeches the Israeli government and military listen and pay attention. Robert Fisk says that he debates credibly and intelligently with journalists unlike some Arab leaders. He is not just full of empty rhetoric but means business too as the Israelis found out in 2000 and 2006.
In my experience Haaretz does have some credibility. The story may change later however as more facts are uncovered.
link to haaretz.com
Milos Strugar, UNIFIL's senior political adviser said that the IDF had "informed UNIFIL that it was going to conduct maintenance works" on the border, adding that while the Israeli unit had been "on the northern side of the border fence," it was nonetheless "south of the international borderline."
However, the UNIFIL official added that the information he had was "preliminary," adding that he will look into the evidence "more thoroughly" later in the day.
"The situation became tense right away, with the Lebanon army also being there," Strugar said, adding that UNIFIL forces had tried "to calm the situation and allow the IDF to work."
"Asserting the IDF's claim that it had informed the Lebanese side of the planned border works, Strugar said that UNIFIL had received a message from the IDF "regarding these works, and we had passed that on to the Lebanese army."
I think Hezbollah is also spoiling for a fight..not just Israel. Hezbollah and its supporters have been involved in a number of confrontations with UNIFIL recently. Including blocking access, taking away weapons and stone-throwing at UNIFIL troops.
No Israeli deaths reported in the Israeli media.
Um let's imagine what would have happened if Hezbollah operatives had crossed the border into Israeli territory and hacked down an Israeli tree. I imagine the Hezb operatives would have been blown to smithereens before they even reached the border. Apparently the Lebanese military fired warning shots at the Israeli military which had crossed over to which Israel responded with tank fire that killed the Lebanese soldiers and journo.
Those punks are looking for a fight and they might just get it.
Israeli intelligence has also reported that Hezbollah's arsenal has grown in size and efficiency...over and above the rise in numbers of fighters.
Just following Israei media reports which rely on their military correspondents who have close contact with the IDF. I would agree that a war is not that far off. The Israelis want a war with Iran through its regional proxies.
Yeah Walid. Watching those developments and wondering how far it will go. I think Israel started it deliberately. The Israeli war hawks have been talking a lot about something like this. What is your take?
I didn't even read Kersh's piece. I was responding to a statement basically saying that there was no fault with the Arab populace at all in regard to the treatment of the Palestinians and that it was merely the Arab regimes that were to blame and not some of their people which is unadulterated crap. This is an attitude I have a severe problem with having lived and worked in the region for years.
Neither do I buy the simplistic idea that the entire situation is a completely black and white one and that the Israelis are one hundred percent evil and the Palestinians and Arabs are one hundred percent as pure as the driven snow. I realise this is a popular theme here but I think it is quite infantile, paternalistic and a kind of reverse racism. I'm also not posting for the benefit of Hasbaristas and frankly don't care about them vis a vis this column.
I care about facts and a certain sense of objectivity. I'm also assuming I'm communicating with people who can discuss the P/I conflict in an intelligent fashion without having to be obsequious to the point of political correctness and who also have the spine to criticise all forms of bullshit from wherever it emanates.
The facts speak for themselves. Israel is an apartheid state and has committed and continues to commit gross injustices against the Palestinians. That does not excuse Arab culpability (and not just the regimes). If Israeli supporters have a point in what they are saying are you so immature as to be unable to address it rationally and can only shout it down because it does not fit into your idealistic picture of the "noble savage". If so that attitude doesn't win any credibility.
Not that I owe either you or the Hasbaristas an explanation: However, I've probably done more to expose that injustices committed against the Palestinians through my work than you could ever imagine. For this I've paid dearly and have been marked by the Israeli government press office and foreign ministry and have had to fight to retain my journalism credentials, work permit and residence visa with the help of a lawyer which took about a year. Without these I would not be able to travel to Gaza regularly and report on the situation there and in the West Bank. I've also had the Zionazi lobby on my case with constant harassment of my editors because they don't like my coverage of the I/P situation. Neither do the Israeli authorities who look for excuses to get overly critical journalists out of the country.
My Palestinian fiance is currently serving a nine-year prison sentence in the Negev prison in very terrible conditions for his role in fighting the Israeli occupation. He has plenty to say about the Arabs and his fellow Palestinians who support their regimes who in turn kiss Israel's arse.
Nobody was talking about Mubarak running the country entirely on his own. What a deliberately obtuse statement. Neither was I referring to the little soldier who sips tea and tries to survive. I made it quite clear that I was referring to the upper-class who have privileged positions for which they are not qualified and for which they are overpaid and who actively support the regime at the expense of their less fortunate compatriots.
Furthermore, the question wasn't what percentage of the Egyptians supported the regime but the fact there are a sufficient number of Arabs who don't care about their own people.
And please don't try to tell me about the slaughter in Gaza during Operation Cast Lead. I covered it first-hand and and continue to cover the consequences of an inexcusable massacre. All the more reason to despise the Egyptian regime which indirectly supported it ..and Mubarak's privileged enablers who in their tens of thousands support his regime (the upper class ones ..not the little men in the street).
Avi,
What you are stating above is fairly well known by anyone living in and covering the region. I'm well aware of the internal policies of the Egyptian government and how it suppresses dissent. I've been caught up in a few protests which I was covering for the media and the way the Egyptian regime deals with critics or any political opposition is pretty scary. Even taking a photograph turns into a physical threat.
Millions of Egyptians keep quiet and don't criticise because they are scared. However, they don't ACTIVELY SUPPORT AND UNDERPIN the Egyptian regime either and they are not brutalised or imprisoned because they don't.
The people who I'm referring to are the tens of thousands of upper-class and snobby Egyptians who ACTIVELY SUPPORT AND UNDERPIN the regime because of the power, prestige and economic payoffs they get for allowing their loyalty to be bought.
I'm pretty sure this significant class of people who Mubarak and his cronies have bought off would not be beaten-up and imprisoned if say they stopped accepting the overpaid and privileged positions for which they are not qualified and found employment elsewhere so long as they didn't criticise the government. I'm also pretty certain they wouldn't be beaten up and imprisoned if say they treated less well-off Egyptians with respect by say paying them a more decent wage instead of using them as virtual slave labour and talking to them as if they are human beings and not some lower-caste sub-humans.
It is overly simplistic in the extreme to think that the Arab regimes are not getting some significant support from some of the population even if it isn't the street.
And please don't tell me that this class of supporters are accepting all the bribes, power and prestige because they are afraid that if they don't they will end up in prison. Arabs are like the rest of the human race and can be bribed and tempted and bought off too.
Quisling not the Quisling
As I already said:
However, I know why it is so very easy for the West to buy off the Arab regimes..because they are surrounded by thousands of cronies and ordinary people who support them over the welfare of their fellow Arabs.
It goes way beyond the regimes. The regimes are propped up by possibly tens of thousands of ordinary people who are bought off. For example the upper classes in Egypt who treat poorer and less educated Egyptians with absolute contempt. They secure positions with no expertise and are paid a fortune for being non-productive because their loyalty is bought. All they care about is appearances, wealth and kissing arse..and fuck the rest. I lived in Egypt for nearly three years and worked with Al Ahram newspaper owned by the Egyptian government. Honestly that crowd would make the Quisling blush.
"Exactly! I never met an Arab who doesn’t care"..and may your good fortune continue so that you are spared this very unpleasant experience. Because I certainly have met quite a few including Palestinians.
I live in Ramallah and have done for six years. I have come across a fairly significant number of corrupt PA personnel who care more for their monthly pay cheques, power and prestige than for their suffering and deprived cousins in Gaza. To go into the details of how they have colluded with Israel when it comes to political opponents would require quite a bit of time. These are not only the government ministers I'm talking about but the rank and file public servants.
Then upon returning from Gaza several days ago I have seen extreme acts of cruelty from the Hamas authorities when it comes to Fatah members and vice versa. Then I could talk about the ordinary Palestinians in my hotel who don't give a toss about politics and who was shot at Qalandia checkpoint that morning. They would prefer to talk about the World Cup. I won't even go into my experiences when I was working and living in Lebanon, Jordan and Egypt.
But having said that I would agree that most in the Arab street do care to some degree. However, I know why it is so very easy for the West to buy off the Arab regimes..because they are surrounded by thousands of cronies and ordinary people who support them over the welfare of their fellow Arabs.
Well stated Walid. You have a balanced outlook. Many of those who post here have a romanticised ideal of how the Arab world is. Living in the region is far less romantic and the reality is that there is a lot of bullshit happening here that can't be blamed on either the West or the Zionazis.
Four years have passed since the last Hezbollah-Israeli war and things have happened since then. I wasn't referring to the other Lebanese who have spied for Israel but actual Hezbollah members who may have cooperated with the Israelis. The alleged penetration is not significant but according to my sources it is relevant. However, at this stage there is no absolute proof so I will hold my judgement.
Hezbollah has already been infiltrated by the Mossad with reports of agents within the group.
"According to the U.S., before the bombardment, there were 164,635 ........"
Who in the US precisely? And why am I a bit sceptical when it comes to the American version of Mideast events? I returned from Gaza yesterday. According to the Chris Gunness from the UN Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) "at least 60,000 buildings and structures were damaged or destroyed by the Israelis during Cast Lead".
While at Shifa Hospital in Gaza city several months ago I noticed windows taped over with plastic because only very limited numbers of plate glass have been allowed in. The little bit of reconstruction material allowed in has been primarily for UNRWA and not for other NGOs or the locals.
While in northern Gaza I saw many families living precariously in the remains of bombed homes or tents with no electricity. What is also very important is the deliberate damage caused to vital infrastructure such as the power grid which effects the ability of hospitals to perform emergency surgery. The little fuel allowed in (this has not improved since the alleged easing of the siege) compromises the back-up generators which kick-in when the electricity cuts which it continues to do on a daily basis for hours.
The millions of dollars of deliberate destruction wreaked on factories - which not only offered employment to thousands but boosted Gaza's economy - and their inability to rebuild or import machinery or vital spare parts is also a huge problem. While the number of building destroyed and damaged may not seem so high to some, the specific targets chosen have caused damage way beyond the numbers of buildings bombed.
Real men target unarmed civilians? I thought that was terrorism. I'm confused.
How many people in Europe or America have ever heard of the first German holocaust in Namibia in Africa at the beginning of the 20th century? Perhaps Hollywood should do a film on that. Oh then again it was "only Africans" who were slaughtered.
Between 1904 and 1907 October, the indigenous Nama took up arms against the Germans who had colonised Namibia ...10,000 Nama (50% of the total Nama population) were killed. In total, between 24,000 and 65,000 Herero (estimated at 50% to 70% of the total Herero population) were killed. The genocide was characterised by widespread death by starvation and from consumption of well water which had been poisoned by the Germans in the Namib Desert.
What garbage. The PA is practically Israel's obedient and obsequious quisling militia carrying out its dirty work. The only thing the PA has yet to do is get its soldiers and police to shine the boots of Israeli soldiers and make them tea while saluting and shouting "Sir". You should see them in action first hand.
Thank you so much for publishing that link MRW. It is most heartening to read that the number of well informed Americans appears to be growing and that American media coverage of the situation is improving. As a foreigner living in the Palestinians territories and working in the media I have always been so despondent at the lack of objective coverage given by the American media to Palestinian suffering in the West Bank and Gaza. I always thought Newsweek was fairly conservative too. But it appears the tide is slowly changing.
And after all of this the Americans still went along with the Israelis it just goes to show how extremely pathetic American governments can get.
beautiful
And here is a link to the extraordinarily beatiful song:
link to youtube.com
On my favourite's list together with other great groups like Jaluka, Savuka, Mango Groove, Ladysmith Black Mambazo, Sipho Hotstix Mabuso etc.
When anybody tries to demonise an entire group according to religion/nationality/ethnic background be it all Muslims/Jews/Germans warning bells go off for me. I have lived in the West Bank and Gaza for years under Israeli occupation so have come across many Israelis.
Ignoring the apartheid state of Israel and the travesties of justice that are perpetuated on the Palestinians, to assert that all Jews are part of some "Jewish global power" is just ridiculous. I have come across many Israelis who are uneducated, poor, not particularly intelligent and struggling to survive financially. They are certainly not part of some powerful elite.
As disgusting as ultra-nationalism is Israel is not the first country to suffer from this and certainly won't be the last. And I do think that a history of extreme persecution and discrimination throughout the ages does have something to do with this nationalism. This is in no way justifying it as Israel's behaviour is unacceptable period. But let's put things into perspective.
The PA might not have been behind it but if it had had any grievances with the poster being there in the first place it would have been pulled down fast. A friend of mine spoke with one of the people behind the ad and he confirmed the PA kind of supported the ad as a roundabout threat to Israel should direct talks not pan out. The PA is very quick to take action against anybody or organisation which it assumes might be considering providing credible opposition.
Busloads of peaceful Hizb At Tahrir supporters were arrested and prevented from convening in Ramallah today by Palestinian security forces.
Thanks for the link Citizen. I guess it is the paradox of whether you can be a good person and still succeed in the dirty business of politics? Take Jimmy Carter for example. I admire him enormously and think he has had great courage vis a vis Hamas and the Palestinians in Gaza. But his record over East Timor and American support, under his presidency, given to the Indonesian military and Suharto in their fight against the Communists under Sukarno leaves a lot to be desired.
Read Lincoln's biography. He continued to support slavery for quite a while due to the profits northerners were making on their cotton plantations in the south and the political support he was getting from them. He only swung the other way when it became inevitable. It was Confederate leader Robert E Lee, interestingly, who expressed distaste for slavery.
Israel was challenged successfully initially by Egypt until the Americans stepped in and bailed Israel out by landing all those tanks and other military equipment during the '73 war. Israel, with the economic and military support of the US, has been able to get away with a lot that it wouldn't have been able to without this support. Iran and the new shifting Mideast alliance involving Turkey and Syria might bring some balance to this.
I have no doubt that under certain circumstances violence works, especially if it is justified self-defence, because basically sometimes that is the only language bullies understand. Israel has used its military superiority to throw its weight around the region because nobody has been able to really stand up to it militarily. Had Israel been successfully challenged militarily it would have had to learn to negotiate a long time ago. I am certain Israel pulled out of southern Lebanon due to a very large degree it being taught by Hezbollah that somebody would and could stand up to it and that its aggression would come with a hefty price tag. Just as I believe that both the US and Israel would think twice about attacking any state that already has nuclear weapons.
It might take an abusive husband many anger management courses to learn not to beat his wife up. But self-preservation and self-interest would mean this same individual would learn self-control very quickly if the subject of his anger was a bigger and stronger man from whom he would receive a thrashing.
Absolutely agree Demize. He is playing them like a string guitar and the site seems to increasingly revolve around him to a large degree. Far from being insulted by the abuse he gets he appears to relish this and laps up the attention. It's not as if he is sincere about debate or taking on anybody else's point of view. Hasbara attention whore alert! Kinda boring however.
Actually 60% of the West Bank is unavailable to Palestinians as it falls under Area C which is under full control of Israel. This is not taking into consideration Areas B which is under joint Israeli and Palestinian control. Only area A is under full Palestinian control.
What exactly makes Kershner a pro and a very good reporter? Genuinely interested to know the answer to this question.
Oh no x 2.
link to haaretz.com
Following the 1967 War, Israel subjected the Occupied Palestinian Territories (OPT) to military rule that lasted until 1981 and treated all Palestinian residents of the OPT as non-citizens and foreign residents. The majority had Jordanian nationality. A quarter of a million Palestinians who were not in the OPT during the war were not allowed to return, and 150,000 were stripped of their ID cards when their exit visas expired. Israel used emergency regulations inherited from the British Mandate to deport 1,522 Palestinians between 1967 and 1992.
Sounds like ethnic cleansing to me or do you only consider ethnic cleansing to be at the end of the barrel of a gun exclusively?
LMAO@camera.org as a credible source. Mickey Mouse Magazine has more credibility than Camera which is regarded as a joke even amongst conservative journalists.
And I bet your real name is something like Haim Shapiro. You fool nobody you Hasbarat.
link to ipsnews.net
WJ who are you kidding? You've obviously not been to Gaza in the recent past.
There was never mass starvation during the severest time of the blockade. There was some hunger due to the economic deprivation. But malnutrition, anaemia, stunted growth, birth defects due to poverty and lack of an adequately nutritious and balanced diet are predominant. Allowing in mayonnaise, potato chips, soda etc. is not addressing the real issues underlying the crisis.
What needs to be addressed are water supply and sanitation; fuel for sufficient electricity so that medical centres and hospitals can operate properly without being subject to 7 hour daily electricity cuts; construction material to rebuild the thousands of homes destroyed and damaged and the decimated infrastructure; exports and imports to resume so that Gazans can rebuild their shattered economy to become self-sufficient and not dependent on food handouts.
SM would have to evolve significantly up the evolutionary scale to reach the level of moron. He appears to be stuck at the cretin level.
They shot at Palestinians from Lebanon too. They also shot at them from Europe when Mossad was carrying out assassinations of Palestinian activists.
If you even begin to believe that Livni regrets the death of civilian casualties you are mistaken. She is a vacuous hypocrite and war criminal. This is what really irks me about Israeli government spokespeople especially those with the IDF. Their crocodile tears over the endless death of Palestinian civilians are not only insincere but it is all for performance and international consumption. At least Hamas was never as hypocritical about attacking Israeli civilians.
Yes Leander. His mother was of Italian/French ancestry. His father was Italian of Greek/Arab ancestry.
The Cypriot authorities will probably stop them and the Lebanese authorities will only let them sail for Cyprus not Gaza.
LMFAO. I just love the way Mooser takes the piss out of hophmi. Hophmi wants to be taken seriously but Mooser just makes fun of him and puts him in his place repeatedly. Just cracks me up!
Don't hold your breath Sumud. This Amy did a very inaccurate story for AP on a Palestinian journalist, who was beaten up by Israeli security when crossing the border from Jordan to the West Bank. He was in the company of employees from the Dutch embassy and had just returned from the US where he received a prize for outstanding journalism. She even misquoted a doctor who examined the beaten journo up. It is very clear where her loyalties lie.
Has anybody ever claimed that Morocco was the "only democracy" in the Mideast? Obviously a democracy should behave better than a tinpot Arab dictatorship. Oh and let's not forget the racism involved in Israel's occupation and towards Israel's Arab-Israeli minority. That makes a difference too.
On a related tangent Sumud: I must say I have been impressed by many of the SMH readers' letters in response to columns about the I/P situation in that they appear to be fairly well informed. The SMH used to be a fairly good rag but has gone downhill big time especially with the appointment of the new Mideast correspondent and light-weight journo Jason Koutsakis whose reports leave much to be desired from both a factual and contextual background angle.
He replaced the last Mideast and excellent correspondent Ed O' Loughlin. I did some work with O' Loughlin for the SMH and I believe one of the reasons he left the SMH was for being too "pro-Palestinian" according to accusations. Koutsakis was specifically appointed bo be "more fair" to Israel. So against the basic tripe that Koutsakis often files I'm pleased to see that there are still SMH readers with some intelligence.
Right Sumud. I was just wondering if Rudd's dismissal had anything to do with the kicking that Mossad mole out of Oz?
And the only politician who has any balls and integrity when it comes to the I/P issue is Bob Browne of the Greens. I heard him speak in Sydney at one demo against Israel's bombing of Lebanon. Good man but he will never get in.
I heard Gillard's obsequious comments to Israeli government officials when she visited here not so long ago. Completely at opposites to somebody from Labour who should empathise with the downtrodden. I wrote her off as a conniving rodent thereafter. This is why I never vote in Australian elections.