Commenter Profile

Total number of comments: 2370 (since 2014-01-11 03:55:48)

Age 59 for a little while. Canadian. Left wing socially, conservative economically. Not right wing tho ;)

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  • How 'Open Hillel' created a new community by challenging the Jewish establishment
    • @yonah
      " I am glad that you had a conversation with a J street friend this week. But I do not consider our interchanges to be conversations. "

      Well... If you aren't Netanyahu you are his clone.

      First you want to denigrate people. Then you complain about the need for talks. Then you want to talk about talks.

      Is avoidance the best you can do? Can anyone really expect you have anything useful to say in person,as a zionist, when do you everything to avoid anything substantive here?

      Don't be insulted. I mean no harm. You give me many laughs each week.

    • they're.. grrr... tried to hit stop in time.

    • I'm curious as to what you think is worth discussing between pro BDS people and anti BDS people. I have zero interest in it for sure.

      All I want is for Israel to live within international law. The same law that applies to all people.

      All the other side wants to argue is why their special and should get a free pass on that.

      I'm willing to listen this once.

      Tell me what I should listen to.

    • My comment was to point out that even many of those perceived as moderate, by Israeli's, are a lawless group. Livni in particular has participated in oppression and is arguably a war criminal. And arguably a war criminal for her actions and not for just being part of the Israeli establishment.

      While's he's been in government before I would agree Burg is more moderate.

      To call it hope is silly. It's more like a drug induced hallucination. Yet you claim you want to introduce some degree of of reality?

      The reality you injected is that such a government is not on the horizon. Israeli's favour conquest over peace.

      The odds of a man (Burg) who said the following being able to walk around Jeruselem, even today, without a bodyguard are not very high. The potential for him to become PM is somewhere very close to nill.

      "Israel is no ordinary civil society. It defines itself as the Jewish state, it kills in the name of the Jews, it loves itself in the name of the Jews, it even loves itself killing in the name of the Jews. "

    • good idea yonah. Just what Israel needs to move these negotiations forward. Another Israeli leader who hates international law.

  • Is ISIS a crisis for the so-called Jewish state?
    • Are you sure that they don't need fuel? ISIS is supposedly pumping and selling crude oil but crude oil is not fuel. Or is it? The only refineries I know of are under Syrian control. I'm serious about that question btw... I don't know enough about either oil or fuel requirements for different pieces of military equipment.

  • British Parliament to vote on recognition of Palestinian state on Monday
    • This great news, I tried to watch it but ended up seeing lots of other issues discussed. I did see the final tally.

      The UK is no longer a huge power really but it does carry great weight in the court of public opinion.

      It's hopefully one of a long line of EU countries. It's time the barbaric nature of the GoI gets reined in.

    • I don't doubt you are right Kay. I may well do the same if I were to publicly speak on the topic. That said it's truly said that we need to offer such latitudes to try to soothe feelings of an aggressive, oppressive, state such as Israel while has been carrying on a criminal agenda for a half century.

      We need leaders who will say enough is enough. The criminal enterprise that calls itself Israel needs to live within international law or suffer the consequences. No... war isn't needed. They can be brought to their knees very quickly with sanctions.

  • Shlomo Sand resigns from being Jewish. Totally. Mostly. Almost
    • lol spot on Shmuel. I will go back to being a lone nobody. This tribe stuff has already become too much :)

    • Like Mooser I consider myself a nobody as well. Perhaps we should get together, identify as a people, and do nothing.

  • Andrew Sullivan should stop giving a pass to Sam Harris and Bill Maher's bigotry
    • A one ton bomb is NOT less barbaric. Sorry

    • Well in all seriousness how many people do excuse suicide bombing? In my opinion there are few, if any, but there are many people who do understand that people who are in desperate circumstances can do desperate things. That the real issue is cleaning up the issues that led to such actions being spawned in the first place.

      And I remain unconvinced that western atrocities rival those perpetrated by religious extremists. I think we are several leagues ahead of them. Slitting someone's throat is truly barbaric but it's less barbaric than the one ton bomb which wipes out dozens in order to get one person. In terms of violence between Muslims and the west, it is the west doing the vast majority of the killing. And we don't only kill in reaction. We will willingly kill to get the dictator of our choice. Muslim on Muslim violence is also horrific but so was the civil wars in the Uk and US. Or any other nation. So was WW I and WW II. This tribal violence does not diminish our responsibility for the lives we have taken.

      People in the middle east have a great share of reponsibility for what happens over there. We have a great share of responsibility for our intereference and creation of the breeding ground and conditions. We need to be here to help any forces of peace and otherwise we need to stop feeding the war groups and militias (this includes Israel).

  • The Titanic of the occupation -- SodaStream (Update)
    • The beacon of democracy restricting what non Jewish people can eat because of Jewish religious laws. You not only can't make this up, you don't need to. What an insane place.

  • Read the genocidal sermon a notable Atlanta rabbi gave this Rosh Hashanah
    • "You can’t provide any quote where he advocates any sort of genocide “full blown” or otherwise, so you are lying when you write this. "

      Don't be silly. His sermon is there for anyone to read.

      You do not exterminate ideas but you do exterminate people. The rabbi would know the difference as would any reasonable person. He places blame not only on radical Islamists but on all Muslims . The list of those we feels need to be exterminated include Iran, which last time I checked was an entire country.

      This is quite plainly a call for genocide, full blown and complete. The rabbi is not an uneducated man who doesn't understand the words and associations he makes. It is prepared sermon and not some off the cuff remarks where he made an unconscious choice of inappropriate words. Pure hate speech and incitement to genocide and anyone who defends his words should hang their head in absolute shame. They've abandoned all morality and become as evil as they claim their enemy to be.

    • Wow. I'm not familiar enough with the laws in the US but this would be hate speech in Canada. It would land him in jail. It's incitement not just to violence but genocide. Full blown genocide.

      I hope speech such as this is rare amongst the Jewish leadership in the US (indeed the western nations as a whole) but the truly scary part is that this seems typical of the speech of Israeli leadership. But political and religious. It's also typical of the zionist supporters on message boards who defend Israel at all costs and attack Islam at every opportunity.

      This has gone far beyond using political cover to attain Eretz Israel. This speech has descended into the territory of pure evil. If there are Islamic terrorists there then they will have good company with individuals of this ilk.

      I guess I haven't really said a lot... I feel I need to but I'm blown away by the depth of depravity in those words.

  • The Greater Gaza Plan: Is Israel trying to force Palestinians into Sinai?
    • I don't think it's remotely questionable that the end game is indeed that.

      During the recent conflict it was one of the zionist talking points (and one cabinet member at least) that Egypt should open up camps in the Sinai and allow civilians to move there. The plan wasn't a land grab of course but merely a measure of the great levels of humanity displayed by the GoI. Israel would allow them to return once hostilities had ceased and reconstruction completed.

      Additionally I have read several articles over the past year that forcing the Palestinians out of Gaza into the Sinai would permit them to annex both Gaza and the West Bank without doing too much damage to the overall existential threat of demographics. Don't forget that Palestinian wombs are a threat to Israeli's. They have the most lethal wombs on the planet I suspect.

      I can think of 3 billion reasons Egypt will eventually agree. It's two hardest issues are 1) can we make that 4 billion. 2) How do we sell it to our citizens.

      The perfidity of the state of Israel and it's supporters know no bounds.

  • Lutheran activists fear new church leadership will stifle criticism of Israeli occupation
    • Pull the other leg. You have no conscience. You support the most vile crimes the world has ever seen. This is not the first time the world has faced such crimes but you are quite vocal in your support and excuses for them.

  • 'Only a suicidal country doesn’t recognize the Bedouin problem': Israeli minister seeks ways to lower Bedouin birthrate
    • Oh those lovable huggable zionists. Who doesn't recognize a woman's womb as an existenial threat. Who raised these scummy freaks. It's one thing to bomb a state back to the stoneage but these lowbrow zionists are living in it and loving it.

  • Ohio treasurer fights divestment from the 'beacon of American values' in the Middle East
    • I can't recall the exact wording of the statement I frequently but it goes something like, Israel is the front line of defense for western democracies against Islamic terrorism.

      Yet, somehow, it never seems to be involved in either the fighting or funding of such efforts. Odd that.

  • Russell Tribunal finds evidence of incitement to genocide, crimes against humanity in Gaza
    • @ActivistGal

      I'm not clear on the extent of your legal background but in the end I fail to see any relevance.

      You are right there was no case made for Israel and even the guilty deserve a fair trial.

      In the first instance Israel was asked to participate but refused. In most legal systems trials do not stop going forward because the parties refuse to participate (unless it's the state refusing to prosecute of course).

      Refusing to participate then complaining about the result just isn't going to fly with any reasonable thinking person.

      In the second instance it's not a trial. No one has been convicted. The Palestinians are being encouraged to join up to the ICC in order to prosecute. While I am not an American it would seem more analagous to a grand jury hearing in any event. Even if that analogy is inappropriate then it's not really an issue as per above.

  • 'Civility' is for dancing classes, not universities, and is tool of pro-Israel political operatives -- Franke
    • Given the ongoing debate about nature versus nurture I don't think it's that unreasonable to believe that there are certain genetic characteristics, which can be inherited, that predisposes a person to tend to influenced by one type of indoctrination versus another. Maybe a genetic predisposition to assume a defensive posture versus one which tends towards being aggressive. That said I doubt the definitive answer will be found in my lifetime and I would be willing to bet more on nurture than nature for those types of things.

  • West Bank settlers exporting dates labelled as 'Made in Palestine'
    • There's something to be said for phrasing things in a kind way when progress is being made and you want to encourage Israel to continue to comply and make further progress.
      In this case we've had a half century of continuing violations and no progress. It's way past time to take the gloves off, speak the truth, and invoke punitive actions.

    • I would assume they mean minors in that article as well. Do Israeli enterprises really need to employ child labour?

      No doubt it's all the Palestinians fault that Israeli's are forced to lie to sell their illegitimate produce.

  • Jodi Rudoren effectively annexes Golan Heights to Israel
    • Assuming that the Syrian government was indeed guilty of using chemical weapons on it's own people in what way does that remove the rights of the citizens to their nation and the protection of international law? More importantly in what way does it permit Israel to avoid the restrictions of international law and to cause further harm to the Syrian people by stealing their land?

      It's not for you to decide whether Syria is a state regardless of how it was created. That's really up to the Syrians and no one else. Outsiders involving themselves in that process merely repeats any colonialist injustice done many years ago. The arrogance displayed by your suggestion is astounding.

  • Homegrown jihadis and the limits of the Israel lobby
    • I've ooften wondered about the mentality of an individual who sees a beheading as a barbaric act yet, at the same time, considers a 1 ton bomb which vaporizes not only the intended target but a multitude of innocents as somehow moral and just. I agree the bomb is quicker in delivering death but it's a lot more indiscriminate. It also frequently creates innocent victims with missing limbs who have to suffer a lifetime of pain, restrictions and suffering.

      Israel's list of war crimes is vast. The idf brutally perpetrates those war crimes and enforces the results on a civilian population for the benefit of others who would not normally be so entitled.

      IS is a filthy terrorist group in my opinion but the idf has no moral leg up on them. I do, in fact, see them as a terrorist group.

  • Yale official barred discussion of Israeli settlements and apartheid at monthly meeting
    • Too bad she lacked the courage to raise the issue in public. Failing to do may result in many other attendees doing so at a future time. Hardly the wisdom, or courage, required of leadership.

      I'm being facetious of course. She didn't bring up the prohibition at the meeting as she knew, or was afrad, that it would be unacceptable to the majority of right minded individuals. No topic should be off limits I would think.

      zionists and it's defenders have to work behind the scenes as they have no defensible position for their crimes, barbarity and machinations to keep same covered up.

  • Israeli Supreme Court upholds law allowing housing discrimination against Palestinians
    • Ah yes... Clearly when all members of a group don't feel the same way about something it's only appropriate that the entire group be held to account and punished somehow.

    • Truly an astounding post. It's hard to believe anyone can hold views such as those and, also feel that they are in any way reasonable in this day and age.

      1. Well that makes it alright then. Issue solved.

      2. Assumes facts not in evidence. Given the propensity of the GoI to use violent measures to control it's Arab population while letting it's Jewish thugs run amok not only unopposed but often with support of armed stated officials I don't think your proposition is a given. I bet a number of dead Arab Israelis would loved to weigh in on the topic.

      3. Yes it is. It is one thing for a group of like minded people to band together and set up a commune/kibbutz provided they live within the laws set by the appropriate authorities at the federal, regional or local level. It is an entirely different thing when that collection of individuals are operating as an agent of government which is what local authorities are generally considered to be. This has to be your most shocking response.

      Granted I'm sure it makes life easier for the Israeli state which provides lower levels of funding for Arab towns. They'd have to find a new racist scheme if people actually lived together.

      The extent of racism you display is astounding but not half as mind boggling that you clearly don't even see it.

      Hopefully Israel will someday become a democratic state. It takes a lot more than voting.

  • 'This is our land!': West Bank village Wadi Fukin fights largest Israeli land grab in decades
    • It's a land grab, pure and simple, as it's not Israeli land. It can't remain a part of Israel when it's not a part of it to begin with. Whether it will become a part of Israel will be subject to Palestinian agreement. Said agreement which Israel does everything in it's power to avoid. The general area is one which Abbas has said he will not agree to.

      I think land grab is kind. It's pure criminal theft to my mind.

  • US and Canada strengthen economic relationship with Israel following attack on Gaza
    • I think you'll find that these days Canada is more staunchly in Israel's corner than the US.

      As a Canadian I find that deeply disturbing and embarrassing.

  • Achieving a hudna and ten years of calm in Israel/Palestine
    • http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=727205

      I'm not sure why zionists are so pumped up on this news item, if true. Initial damage during the conflict was found to be inaccurate upon completion of a proper inspection. Please note I made up that last sentence but it's what I would expect to happen in almost any situation let alone during the slaughter that was undertaken. Equally frequent as an outcome is that damage is worse than initially estimated.

      Big deal.

    • But quiet has never been met with quiet. Quiet is met with targeted assassinations, extrajudicial killings, land theft (aka natural growth of settlements).

      Given the history of wanton massacres committed by Israel one more easily argue that their policy has been shut up or we will kill you.

      That would also be wrong as the policy in operation has been shut up while we kill you.

  • Photo of six shoveling secretaries needs a caption
    • Kirkpatriick and Kissinger hold shovel for first time. Kissinger ask Kerry if he's doing it right. Stealing Palestine. A bit at a time.

  • British pol is beaten by man in Israeli army t-shirt, and the chattering classes are silent
    • Geeze I'm 60. At this age a stiff breeze could blow me over. At 39 I would have been able to at least put up a battle.

      This guy is one very sick zionist punk. I'm sure claims will be made that he is an outlier but when you see the rampant racism and calls for violence in Israel itself, including cabinet level positions, this is the face of modern zionism.

      Like radical Islam, modern zionism is a threat that needs to be dealt with. It's not going to get better on it's own.

    • Wow... I googled him shortly after it happened but couldn't make the final link. I thought it couldn't be the bbc manager. When you link his position, his obvious fanaticism and the ongoing complaints about the one sided coverage of the I/P issue by the BBC it makes sense. I know camera org would complain about the coverage being lopsided the other way but they spend their time niggling over adjectives.

      http://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/jul/16/bbc-defends-coverage-israeli-airstrikes-gaza-palestinian

      Well, well, well.

  • Ceasefire deal after weeks of fighting in Gaza promises easing of blockade
    • What will be the final body count. That's not a question as no one knows the answer yet. The saddest part is whatever the body count is, the measure of success is that we are where we were 4 years ago.

      Hamas are so far from being good it's not funny, but regardless, did that many people need to die in order for Israel to say we will agree to what we agreed to before. It's not remotely debatable by any sane judgement that Israel started this latest round.

      While the left is reviled what does it take to make Israelis understand that suppressing rights of other people is the lowest of the low. Once that's done the concentration can be on addressing the issues within a group.

      This was pure evil perpetrate on a grand scale.

    • Oh I do. It's the only thing I ever learned to play on drums. I can't even name all the instruments but a group of approx 8 of us spent many days mastering that. (wll, ok, we think we did)

  • 'Common Dreams' website traps Hasbara troll spewing anti-Semitism
    • Well in the case of the perps, it is indeed a mental disease. Unless they're doing it for a political agenda but most that have been outed so far seem unhinged.

    • Just when you think you've heard it all. I have often seen outrageous posts that made me wonder (and they always will). They would just leave you thinking and wondering.

      "Described by the professor in charge of his academic unit as “the sweetest guy you can imagine,”"

      The second lesson of this tale is that this professor is an incredibly poor judge of character. Of course they say serial killers are often the quiet ones or the neighbour no one noticed.

      Whoever the guy is he should be outed I think. I'm somewhat wavering on the fence on that. With help maybe he can turn his life around and shouldn't be scarred for life. He is clearly a very very sick individual though.

  • The West Bank insurrection
    • On the first pic. Looks like a uniform to me. I would be hard pressed to take him for a civilian. I guess a 8 month old baby looks like that to an Israeli.

  • On being accused of anti-semitism by well meaning liberals
    • "4. A double standard for Middle Eastern Countries."

      This is a questionable claim in other ways. Other middle eastern countries have been hit with sanctions, UNSC resolutions and actual munitions over their behaviour.

      There is an exception to that in the case of Saudi Arabia. Given their role in the regions troubles I think that would be a fair claim.

      There is an exception in that Israel is given a free pass as well despite it's actions.

      Saudi Arabia aside, the complaint is that Israel does not want to be treated like other middle eastern states.

  • Palestinian refugees displaced again as they flee Islamic State in Iraq
    • Surely if ISIS gains too much territory then Israel will need to invade and establish a security zone in order to ensure their self defense.

      I say that somewhat tongue in cheek as I don't feel it's speculation but actually part of the plan.

      Maybe I'm wrong but time will tell.

    • I am beimg sarcastic when I say that what's the issue? Israel will gladly let them escape the danger zone provided they sign away their basic human rights aka right of return. I've lpst 3 friends in the last week...Anyone else feel it's not really worth it? Just curious. I'll check back tomorrow. In the meantime the target is 0 Palestinian lives lost. We can do that can't we? If we can't then what's the point.

      There really isn't anyone pulling Israeli triggers other than Israelis . When will they accept that and understand it.

  • Gaza Calling: All out on Saturday August 9 Day of Rage
    • I am with you on Kristol. At least with Regev I can laugh at the k's but Kristol is disingenuous in a very dangerous way.

      What we are seeing is day two of hasbara in over/hyper drive. Anderson Cooper apparently couldn't grasp the significance or method of the Dahiya Doctrine, despite having it explained to it, and kept going back to - you're not suggesting Israel is targeting civilians are you, they could kill so many more.

      AC is not a stupid person. The doctrine is well known. This is planned and coordinated propaganda.

  • Bob Schieffer in a 'world gone mad'
    • Every station I've watched today seems on hyperdrive to blame the victims and paint Israeli's as not really responsible. And in jpost land the articles say the GoI cabinet is spoiling to take down Netanyahu as he didn't go far enough.

      A world gone totally mad.

  • What I said to the couple holding a banner with a swastika on it
    • @Jordan Street

      I'm sure you don't need my approval but I don't doubt your account and agree with how you handled it.

      Without burying myself in the arguments on it, it is not only needlessly offensive to many because of history (not just Jewish people) and counter productive to whatever the cause is but it makes many people turn away and disengage.

      Whatever a wrong is, it can be justified as a wrong on it's own merits with those that share the same general moral code. For those who don't it (the sign) isn't going to change their mind anyway.

  • British gov't minister resigns over 'morally indefensible' Gaza policy, urging Palestinians to go to international criminal court
    • You must admit it's a huge leap in efficiency. You can explain everything even the things you can't explain.

  • A brief respite in Gaza
    • Proser was on CNN, waxing poetically of course, about with peace 'we' will rebuild Gaza, 'we' will build them hospitals., 'we' will build them parks, etc.

      We aren't at that stage yet but it does beg the question as to why Israel should be a significant player in the rebuilding process at all. Why should they profit from destruction they've caused. There's no doubt they'd need to play a role to my mind unavoidable.

      But why doesn't the international community not only send aid but send the materials under UN (Nato, whatever) supervision but also send business advisors, managers, skilled labour where need, and help Gaza not only rebuild but to also build a local economy. Employ their workers, give them skills, give them a base to build on. I know I would volunteer (well not free but at a very minimum wage in order to house/feed myself. not rich enough for free) if skills were needed.

      It just rubbed me wrong to have the patronizing plantation manager say 'we' will build them the new Singapore... Yes he used that exact reference again.

  • israel is the golden calf
    • Yeah... Then there's the hamas manual (courtesy of camera or memri), a rocket launch next to a reporters hotel (memri and clearly heavily edited as to sequence).

      I took him to be saying that he was repeating what others used to say and that the Israelis had edited the video of him. I'm not even sure of that though. He's a bit hard to follow. I didn't see wolf live and it appeared edited as well with pieces missing. And they are going to follow that story closely with much more from wolf on it later.

      It could be true or it could be hasbara is working overtime.

  • 'NYT' gives Israelis the opportunity to shoot and explain (why not Hamas?)
    • Public perception in the west anyway.

      Unless documents are way out of date then well over half of the world does not recognize Hamas as terrorist group. That would be way over half in terms of the number of countries or in terms of the population on the planet.

      My country does, so while I may not agree, I certainly can't consider them as anything else unless I want a visit from....

    • yeah... Well Bolivia took the right action in that regard in my opinion.

      Everything from sonic boons, midnight raids, taking over houses or property for training sometimes in the middle of the night, their general targetting, torture, using live ammo on unarmed protesters, the list is endless....

      Those things are all intended to terrorize and demoralize

      This is not an existential fight for Israel. It potentially is for Hamas and the residents of Gaza... At some point I would switch and support any use of their rockets. I'm not there yet.

    • It's aimed at civilians. Or at least it appears to be as I haven't talked to the rocketeers.

      Now the tunnels have been used against military targets. Perfectly fine to support those actions.

  • Israel, your brand is tanking
    • wow... I will need to finish watching it tomorrow. 91 children killed by a shot to the head. Staggering. Hopefully there won't be another massacre when I wake up. Thanks for sharing it.

    • I think Ezra Levant is a lot more dangerous than the JDL. His incitement is quite extreme although he's not a muscle guy. His views are not popular up here. The network he works for has financial issues due to the lack of viewers and they've been trying to get on basic cable to snag a portion of the basic fees.

      The last time I looked Harper was still leading the polls. The only serious competition is Justin Trudeau (his father Pierre was PM in the early 70's). He will win the youth vote for sure but likely won't sweep the older groups as he's flash without substance so far. That could change.

      In terms of the I/P I'm not sure it matters as Trudeau and the Liberals have been peddling the Israel has a right to defend itself line. I think it does too, I just don't see their actions as remotely self defense.

      Harper is not liked. He is an economist and he has helped keep the country on a decent course financially. To quote Paul Begala (sp?) - it's the economy stupid.

    • Well done. Brilliant.

  • Seven congresspeople go to Israel on AIPAC's dime-- and one gets defensive about it
    • " In fact, in that case, the same people support........."

      Wrong but thanks for asking. Remind which of those conflicts have had millions of people being oppressed under occupation or seige for 67 years? Yes yes.. the occupation doesn't go back that far but the dispossession does.

      Syria aside those conflicts are ended but this one Israel refuses to sit down and talk preferring the cover of conflict with the attendant damage to innocent civilians on both sides.

  • Israeli deceptions revealed in story of ‘kidnapped’ soldier
    • Well... It is possible they will do the right thing but it's actually seen as a cheap political ploy by him to make it appear he is doing something. He is a member of the Friends of Israel and, refused to back Moon in calling the recent attack criminal/illegal. Preferring to leave legal issues to lawyers.

  • Israel shells another UN school-- and even the US is 'appalled'
    • Well.. for sure. I'm just curious as to how nasty the messages are.

    • bbc news just now. "UN calls the attack disgraceful"

      No ... it called it criminal.

    • Could you translate? I speak English as a second language and it's the only one I know (ok ...some French)

    • Why do US gov comments refer to Israeli's own standards. If they were higher than the bare minimum required under international law, IHL , or GC it would be acceptable but they clearly are not.

    • Maybe the wrong thread but does anyone know the qualitative difference between the explosive capacity of Israeli weapons and Palestinian weapons? (rockets in particular).

      Comparing kg per kg is false depending on the type of explosive material used and purity of that material.

      Just curious.

    • I don't know what it takes to shift public opinion in a major way. Most people I know what local news but pay little attention to international issues. North Americans, in general, have been bombarded with a half century of pro Israeli comment with infrequent voices being heard on the part of the Palestinians.

      Add in casual racism against Arabs in general (predating Israel really) as well as Muslims and there's a huge barrier to overcome before a shift can occur.

      If this round of hostilities doesn't shift opinion, I really don't know what type of catastrophe it would take to get people to open their eyes and minds.

    • wow... I make fewer errors when I've been drinking. apologies.

    • Unless food, water and medicine is brought it then there's little point. They kept the crossings closed on the very first ceasefire which was set expressly for that purpose.

      I don't know how any Israeli can look at themselves in the mirror. Assuming their press reports these things it takes a very special kind of hatred and racism to consider it acceptable.

    • Well at least it wasn't barbaric like killing a soldier during war time. eye roll.

      There supposedly targeting 2 terrorists on a motorcycle nearby. This shows a totally callous disregard for the safety of civilians. I saw two because of the language used... I guess it could have been 50 although I was never able to carry that many when I owned 1. But then 1 is a number as well so...

      "The Israeli military was investigating the incident, said a spokesman, but preliminary inquiries had shown that its forces were "targeting a number of terrorists on a motorbike near the school,"

      http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/03/gaza-israel-united-nations-school-strike-ban-ki-moon

  • 'I can't be silent. It is genocide' -- Anoushka Shankar
    • Well I am glad I'm not alone. I did reread it and came to the same opinion I had before. I am a canuck and we excel at being passive aggressive lol

      (o/t humour related to being passive aggresive if allowed. it'sold now. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1ZSHulmerE )

    • hmm I didn't get that she was blaming Hamas with that post. Maybe I am looking at the wrong one. Seems to me she was acknowledging many people thought she should be blaming Hamas and then pointed out she's against killing regardless of who does it.
      Anyway not to argue and I will reread it.

      It is amazing the extent to which one can be targeted by pro Israelis. I have been in a minor way although I talked to some individuals in charge and they recinded their decision. I won't go into details.

      I've never heard Israeli's complain of this type of concerted action/attacks. I don't know if that means it doesn't happen to the same extent or if it means I just haven't heard of it.

      Beautiful post on her part to my mind.

  • Tariq Abu Khdeir goes to Washington -- and finds surprising support
    • I have read this thread several times. I wish I could be pleased with the support he received. I can't. I hope I am wrong but apart from lip service I don't expect any concrete action that would actually show support for him or for the many Palestinians that suffer abuse on a daily basis.

      In the meantime Israel has declared a unilateral ceasefire in Gaza except for Rafah which loosely translates we will not bombard those areas we do not want to bombard. Excluding our tunnel clearing operations of course which will set up the conditions whereby we can blame the Palestinians for our murderous campaign against them.

  • What Jim Fallows and I saw
    • " I think it’s time to hold the 90% responsible, as in, personally so. :

      Can I ask the context in which you mean that?

      I do feel responsible for the actions of my state. I do speak out against it and protest it. When I feel it's appropriate of course and that can always be questioned as to the rightness of my decision.

      I applaud the awards given to the indigenous by our courts, both in terms of financial awards, archaic laws being struck down and land being granted to their control.

      I do feel directly responsible for the decades and centuries of abuse they suffered. In fact I feel more responsible than I would hold my grandfather as it continued through my lifetime when we knew better.

      I do feel Israel has some deeply ingrained racist problems. But if I can defend the individual for a minute I also feel that individual citizens, or even people who support Israel, Jewish or nonJewish, can also be (not "just as much") victims of constant and excessive propaganda, and enforced group think.

      I'm not saying I disagree with you actually. I asking you the context and extent to which you feel people should be held personally responsible.

  • Who broke the ceasefire? Obama blames Hamas against the evidence
    • They had piles of evidence that Hamas was behind the kidnapping of the three youth as well. Netanyahu said he was going to release it. The world still waits for it.

    • One doctor tweeted at 8:03am that he thought the ceasefire was supposed to have come into effect but he could still hear artillery exploding. There wasn't a follow up tweet so it's hard to tell if it was a matter of a single battery with a screwed up clock a slight delay in issuing the order to cease, or something that continued.

      This is a hard one to piece together. I went through a number of twitter accounts last night and couldn't be sure. It is starting to look like another lie like the one used to cover the rampage through the west bank though.

  • The member of Knesset who called for genocide -- against the mothers of the 'snakes'
    • I haven't been able to find a videoof it but Shaked was interviewed on bbc this week.

      Marnie may be right about men being more subject to her beauty (studies show beauty is define by symmetry in both genders) but I was absolutely shocked by the depth of her hatred and bile even having been disgusted reading her words.

      It will eventually show up on youtube or elsewhere and it's worth seeing

    • I personally WWII would be left out of it.

      Germany was a first world, highly industrialized, state with one of the most powerful armies. Japan was also powerful. Italy.... Well they were the French of the axis powers. The UK, Russia were also mighty nations with first world powers. No offense to the US but I left it out as it helped Germany with financial and other resources before Germany declared war on it. US involvement was significant, no doubt about it. But on both sides.

      Israel is not embarking on extermination on an industrial scale. I have no qualms about accusing Israel of either ethnic cleansing or genocide. It's apparent. But it is not exterminating all but the chosen race in the same way.

      Similarly Hamas (and some of the other groups) are also not Nazis. I don't care what the charter says... They are more of a citizen militia and they are not a first world state.

      The comparisons are wrong. I have on many occassions been tempted to point out the similarities between Israeli tactics and Nazi tactics of the same period but to do so clouds the whole issue as the comparison fails beyond the individual tactics (sometimes more than one combined).

      I prefer to argue what is supposedly illegal and moral right versus wrong. A much harder argument to win but it's the right one to win.

      There is no justification for what Israel does and has done but leaving Nazis out of this, on all sides, shouldn't hamper the Palestinian moral and legal case which is unassailable.

  • Emergency call from Gaza
    • And it's not like states haven't already been complaining about the wanton destruction on the part of Israel

      http://electronicintifada.net/content/eu-denounces-israels-destruction-aid-projects-west-bank/11301

    • There really is a bright side though. At least a few less children and innocents will be turned to mist and body parts tonight.

      Many more will die in the days to come due to the lack of services and infrastructure. They will suffer more than those killed outright.

      And in a few years when the time comes to mow the grass again, we in the west (meaning our states, and the supporters, who don't care) will look down our noses at them again and say... They're savages. They've been given so many chances to make something of themselves and look at them.

    • That's my interpretation of the laws covering occupation as well. I am beginning to believe Israel is truly a western democratic state... sadly when considering the past century I also believe a western democratic state is euphemism for we may do what we want, when we want, regardless of international laws or treaties, and we are not responsible for the consequences of our actions.

      I can only wish it was different.

  • Israel calls Obama's tune
    • I have to echo Shingo's comments.

      Hamas maintained the 2012 ceasefire, and even arrested members of other liberation groups for firing rockets (sources if you need them). It endured dozens of Israeli violations of that ceasefire agreement without responding (again if you need them) and it gained them nothing but continued oppression.

      I am so tired of this "All the Palestinians/Hamas need to do is..." crap as they have done it and all they have received in return is more occupation, oppression and denial of human rights that Israelis and the vast majority of the world enjoys.

      Israel has continually worked hard to avoid any peace or the necessity to treat Palestinians as humans. Not special. Not even lesser. Just humans.

    • While the Gazan/Hamas economy has received especially draconian attention I think it would be more fair to say Israel has been against any Palestinian economy. It's not like the west bank enjoys free trade.

    • My email to cif at the guardian
      I would like some specific feedback, if possible, with respect to why I have been placed on pre moderation [................................................................................................................................................................long schpeel......................]

    • Israel and it's bots call the tune for many. I understand if the mods here don't let this through.
      For the first time in 7 years I have just been informed that I am now on pre mod at the guardian site.

      During that time I have not only argued against antisemitic slurs, while holding Israels feet to the fire, wrt to international law and morality. I have posted against nazi comparisons, I have reported antisemitic posts and clearly genocidal posts for deletion.

      I don't doubt I've crossed the line at times but would think it's no more than others may do in the heat of the moment.

      I didn't pick a different id here to hide who I am but at the guardian I'm wyldewolfe. A little surprised but hardly shocked. The hasbot community doesn't like to have their narrative challenged.

  • With nearly half a million displaced in Gaza, UNRWA head calls on Israel to take responsibility
    • All proser could rant on about was I didn't hear Hamas... I didn't hear Hamas.

      In the first instance he wasnt' listening in that case and in the second it's about time Israel stepped up to the plate for the devastation and horrors they have inflicted upon innocents.

    • I have said it before and I will say it again. Given a choice between tunnels and anything else (well the last time was bunkers) I would spend on tunnels as it's the only option which has even the remotest chance of freedom. The others only offer me some sort of chance of living under oppression.

      I fail to see how this ceasefire will hold but I hope it does. Israel (bbc jpost) is insisting it's tunnel destruction operations will continue. I guess if it's behind their lines that's doable but if it means moving towards Hamas lines in the search then Hamas will likely defend their territory as they should.

      Sounds crazy... Troops remain in place should mean troops remain in place and not troops continue operations.

  • The JDL gains influence in Canada as Jewish community moves to the right
    • Very disturbing.

      I did some reading on the jdl leader just a few weeks ago. He's not merely pro Israel. He has form and history as they say. He has led campaigns against Mosques which has nada to with Jewish defense.

      There was a point when the JDL was almost declared illegal. I honestly can't remember when.

      I've posted elsewhere that I am truly ashamed of my country in this matter. And I am.

      There will be no change as long as Harper is in power. It's not really a democracy under him as even Ministers aren't allowed to speak publically on issues without the PMO's approval. Leaving Palestinians aside for one sentence... As a Canadian I am truly offended that our PM seems to have a greater allegiance to the US and Israel than he does to us.

      I will ask all candidates in the next election what their position is at public meetings. That doesn't always accomplish much but I will try to hold their feet to the fire.

      If I can offer a slightly different view of our history then I'd offer this link....
      "On Jean Chretien’s watch, Canada voted in favour of countless biased U.N. resolutions slamming Israel."

      http://landmarkreport.com/andrew/2011/04/which-party-is-the-true-supporter-of-israel#sthash.TKC2v2XI.dpuf

      I think I'll toss in questions about the jdl too if I can get away with it. Their violent history is there.I don't agree with declaring them illegal on the basis that the US does... Just as I don't agree that we should have Hamas as an illegal group. They've never comitted terrorism against Canada.

  • 'Children killed in their sleep': Israeli artillery fire hits UN school, killing at least 20
    • It is having a negative impact on Jewish people around the world but I have issues with that reality. I don't see that all of a group should be held to blame for actions of others within that group.

      The funny (not haha) thing about it is that major proponents of the attacks on Muslims and how everyone within that religion (can we call it ethnic if Judaism is a ethnicity) or ethnicity should be held to account or be required to speak up against others or be held to be complicit have been zionist/Israeli supporters, at least on the internet. There is a much larger world of course, but to the extent that the internet reflects life, zionists may be helping to create the grounds and environment in which all Jewish people may be held to account for the sins of the zionists/Israel (and no, I won't agree with that either).

      I truly feel zionists, by ignoring international law etc, are dragging the world back a hundred years or more and making it a more dangerous place for us all.

      (offtopic but if I might and I'm not trying to distract but it appears Greece is moving down the racist road yet again. Similar to a court judgement we might expect in Israel http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/31/greek-court-acquits-farmers-shot-strawberry-pickers )

  • Video: Mark Regev, deciphered
    • That was priceless. Let me be perfectly clear here, it was absolutely priceless.

      The loss of any human life is a tragedy when you're watching us take it.

  • More voices describe Gaza slaughter as a 'genocide'
    • " But obviously there are some genocidal intentions being expressed by some Israelis "

      Some Israelis are comprised of a significant number of coalition cabinet members. This is not some lunatic fringe threat (well they are lunatics but not fringe).

    • I remember him saying that and my thoughts at the time were that the buffer was not going to add much to security in terms of the rockets. I still that's true. I would imagine it will help with tunnels.... And I imagine they will salt the buffer with some sort of anti personnel devices.

      Herd them into smaller and smaller places.

      Depressing.

  • Slaughter is not self-defense: The assault on Gaza and the corruption of language
    • I found an interview or quotation a few days ago and lost it. It was with an Israeli leader.... Essentially said we consider them (meaning towns/cities) to be armed camps (ormilitary bases?) and therefore we deem them to all be combatants.

      I don't expect anyone to take my word for and will keep searching but it's relevant and maybe I will tweak someone's memory who could also find it.

  • Video: If you voted for Hamas, Israel has a right to kill you, says president of NY Board of Rabbis
    • No you don't need to vote for them, you just need to support them. So Palikari is prepared to accept that almost all Israelis (old age...dont' remenber the % that are pleased) are complicit and can't be considered civilian casualties.

      Fire away.

      His position is devoid of logic or morality. It is not even a half step away from legitimizing capital punishment for thought crimes.

      Civilians are civilians. End of.

    • Wow.... Such hatred. He's probably a good man on many levels but his loyalty seems to have blinded him.

      He redefines civilians as combatants then removes from them even the dignity of being collateral. A huge cheer from the crowd., followed by saying no one here today celebrates the deaths of innocents.

      The Israeli youth were kidnapped and murdered. The Palestinian youth merely killed. Not kidnapped, tortured and murdered.

    • Truly a sick mind. When supposedly intelligent people think this way it's easy to see how war crimes and genocide occurs.

  • As night follows the day, deaths of 10 Israeli soldiers lead to deaths of 30 Palestinian civilians
    • Well the Nazi ratio was much lower than 100 to 1 in many places. It wasn't fixed across all of it's fronts. In Italy 10 Italians were killed for every German policeman.

      As has been said it's not the numbers. It's the wanton killing, it's the dehumanizing, it's the callous disregard for life. Oh I know they say they deeply regret but they don't. The continued killing and refusal to address a peace. Not only in Gaza but the West Bank. It's the massive destruction of civilian infrastructure. It's their decision tp punish the population through violence.

      It's the calls for genocide from Israel and it's supporters.

      Israel has become a very nasty state. I see no redemption any more.

  • Israel has detained 15-year-old American boy for 26 days; US is 'gravely concerned'
    • Israel is such a high level security/police state it's not remotely believable they didn't know exactly who he was and where he was from.

  • Where my bomb shelters at?
  • Video: Celebrities, artists and activists call for Palestinian freedom in #GazaNames project
    • I guess Neil Young will be considering going over there to entertain the idf troops who are weary from killing innocent civilians.

  • Statement: Legal experts and human rights defenders demand international community end Israel's collective punishment of Gaza
    • Gosh, the Dersh isn't there. What a shocker.

    • Fixed it for you. :)
      "It is always their way, and more illegal settlements.

      Let's not forget they covet parts of Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt and Iraq.

      They do need to be stopped. This is a 1930's moment. No comparison between you know what... There's no need. Their crimes stand on their own.

  • ‘Lone soldiers’ and young ideologues from around the world contribute to Israeli war crimes
    • "but a fight against extremists."

      If you don't understand that Likud and other parties in the coalition are extremists then your moral compass is sitting too close to an iron mine.

      Certainly some Islamic groups are extremists but the primary difference when it comes to causing death and destruction is Israel has a state, a first world army, a major weapons producing nation as it's benefactor (plus the veto).

      There is no moral distinction as both willingly kill large numbers of innocents to acheive their political goals. The terrorism of Irgun, Stern, Haganah became institutionalized and given a shiny face.

  • How many would be alive today if Obama had not quashed Goldstone Report?
    • The attacks on Goldstone were a crime in itself in my opinion. A man who had given so much of his life in public service. And had done so in a very professional manner.

      There is a standard zionist/GoI tactic.

      Investigation announced/invesigator(s) appointed
      Attack investigators as antisemitic
      Israel refuses to cooperate
      Results released
      Israel attacks the results saying that all the information wasn't known and considered and pointing out they told you the investigator(s) were antisemitic

      It's foolproof until the world says stfu, you had your chance. Most people don't follow it closely enough to remember the full sequence of events. Feel free to add steps I likely missed.

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