Commenter Profile

Total number of comments: 997 (since 2010-04-14 11:21:38)

Canadian, 71, female, WASP, writer, former college English teacher, librarian. A relative newcomer to Palestine/Israel issue.


Showing comments 800 - 701

  • 'Israel Firster' gets at an inconvenient truth
    • ....but a least with a country, the Jews can feel much safer and more protected.

      Safer, you say. Israel has been at war with its neighbours for 60+ years, and now its citizens are fighting among themselves. Not my idea of safety.

  • NY labor leader says Netanyahu's bad-faith negotiating tactics foster Arab 'contempt' for Israel (and Israeli official talks w/ his feet)
    • Settlers out isn’t the solution since this would not lead to peace.

      Rubbish. Always the Palestinians' fault, never the Zionists' fault, eh Jonah.

  • 'Corporate Watch' publishes guide on targeting Israeli apartheid
    • The people who wrote this handbook don’t give a damn about the Palestinians.

      And you and your pal 3e do care about the Palestinians, regev?

      Allison, thanks for this article. The 368 page downloadable Targeting Israeli Apartheid seems to have struck a nerve at Hasbara Central. And so it should.

      BDS is getting stronger and the Zionists are losing ground.

    • For example GDP and GDP per capita. Number of patents per capita. Innovation etc.

      You're waffling, 3e. Lets see some statistics, urls, evidence.

    • Israel just keeps getting stronger in absolute terms and relative to its neighbors.

      What absolute terms would these be, 3e?

    • You don't have the faintest idea who I am: my gender, my nationality (or perhaps multiple nationalities), my domicile, education, age, profession, mother-tongue, and of course, my ability or non-ability to gather information.

      You sound like a British Zionist to me, winnica. Full of words but lacking substance or heart as only 'educated' Brits can sound. Retired, anxious to make a bit of money shilling for Israel on the Internet you so despise. How am I doing so far?

    • Such a blatant effort to undermine my state and my economics, with smear campaign and overreaching generalization, will discredit the BDS as the same boycott attempted by the Arab League states.

      BDS worked in South Africa, Dimadok, and it will work in Palestine where the Apartheid is—according to SA campaigners—even worse than it was in South Africa.

      And btw what are you, Dimadok, doing to try to turn your state into a legitimate actor on the world stage? Israel is its own worst enemy.

    • Thanks Les. Let us know if there is a letter campaign or petition we can sign.

      The London website is all over this outrage.

      link to

  • A regular commenter on this site seeks a more temperate comment board
    • Phil is under the false impression that liberal Zionists are reformable.

      Possibly so, Avi. Perhaps it is just a fond hope. The website, I believe, was founded as a discussion venue for liberal Zionists.

      But you're right, he can't have his cake and eat it too.

      If he wants a vibrant, welcoming, ever-expanding mondo readership, he must keep the site wide open. (Within the limits most commenters on this thread have deemed reasonable and are in fact already in place.)

      Because of the Internet, the facts about Apartheid Israel are now better known. My Canadian newspaper was on about the plight of women in Israel this morning. It's doing more and more stories like this. In the last year or so a very effective pro-Palestinian lobby group (Canadians for Justice and Peace in the Middle East) has sprung up. CJPME's volunteer researchers watch out for Israeli hasbara in the media. When they find it, head office sends out an alert and a cadre of letter writers (including me) get to work.

      People everywhere are enraged about the treatment of the Palestinians. People everywhere have a stake in what happens in Israel. Who on earth wants a World War III?

      Some of these enraged folks are finding their way to Mondo. Phil and Adam must screw up their courage and deal with the new situation they are facing.

      I hope to see Mooser back soon with guns-a-blazing!

    • My attitude is this….yes we could do without some pointless pie throwing, childish fun as it sometimes. (but not without Mooser’s wit)

      I hope Phil hasn't given Mooser the boot. We've not heard much from him this month. His ofttimes intemperate but deadly accurate comments would be sorely missed.

    • You’d be missed.

      I second this, chaos4700.

    • Reduce his posts considerably or even ban him, and half the problem will have been solved – not because his views have no place here (Phil thinks he represents a significant part of the Jewish community), but because he is a rude, passive-aggressive, threadjacking, tiresome troll.

      I agree with Shmuel.

  • Today in Pittsburgh, Jesse Lieberfeld, 17, will deliver a hammer blow to American Jewish support for Israel
    • There is fault on both sides.

      What would you do CLynn if strangers invaded your region of the world and set up an exclusive religion-based government?

    • ...that the story of Jesus we know today was a composite of the real lives of some few men,...

      That sounds quite plausible, citizen. The four gospels certainly read like a composite.

    • No, the doctrines and mind numbing philosophical debates about the nature and attributes of the so-called Trinity were added, but the bases of those beliefs can be found in the earliest manuscripts.

      Yes, the early Church fathers had to twist themselves into knots to get their
      Trinity scam accepted as doctrine.

      It's not even clear if there was an historical Jesus. Would-be messiahs were a dime a dozen in Palestine at the time Jesus is supposed to have lived.

      As for the concept of a dying and resurrected god, this goes back thousands of years. It is a pagan concept likely connected to the nature of food plants.

    • So you think it is not up to Jews to decide who is a Jew or not.

      I do think it is up to Jews to decide who is a Jew or not, 3e. Even Jews for Jesus.

    • Just another reason why a Jewish state is critical so that some uppity gentiles don’t start telling us who is a Jew or not.

      Ah, so only uppity Jews can tell us who is a Jew or not.

      Well you certainly qualify as one uppity Jew, 3e. Your masters at Hasbara Central must be very proud.

    • According to you then, Jews for Jesus are Jews, but obviously they are not even though they have the same ethnicity as other Jews.

      Jews are Jews are Jews, 3e. Of course Jews for Jesus are Jews. You know that as well as I do. You just don't like their beliefs.

      Why don't you give up for the day, get yourself out of Hasbara Central and go for a long walk.

    • Do we know what their situation is at this time? Yes, I looked it up myself. There were 11 (not 5) Univ. of California Irvine Muslim Union students charged.

      Here's the latest news I could find:

      "In September 2011, ten of the eleven MSU students who interrupted Ambassador Oren's speech were "convicted of a California misdemeanor and sentenced to probation and a fine."[42] Shortly after the verdict, District Attorney Tony Rackauckas wrote, "History tells us of the dire consequences when one group is allowed to shout down and intimidate another or a group of people so as to not allow them to have opinions or be heard. History requires us to draw a line in the sand against this sort of organized thuggery."[43] Harvard law professor Alan Dershowitz wrote, "It was a good day for the First Amendment when the prosecutor decided to apply the law to their censorial conduct. It was another good day for the First Amendment when the jury appropriately convicted them. And I hope it will be yet another good day for the First Amendment when the appellate courts affirm this constitutionally just conviction."[42] my bold

      Good old Dersh!

    • Jesse Lieberfeld is indeed a brave good-hearted young man.

      As I read this article I thought of the five (?) Palestinian university students in California who are facing criminal charges for speaking out against Israel's U.S. ambassador Michael Oren.

      Do we know what their situation is at this time?

  • Settlers assault Palestinians in Hebron. Palestinian fire fighters save settlers in Hebron
  • Palestinian hackers occupy an Israeli government website
  • Why aren't the best and the brightest in our MSM?
  • Israel's nightmare: Jew against Jew
    • Do you want to deny the people of the United Church of Canada the right to self-associate, the right to self-govern, and the right of self-determination?

      Nope. They can do what they like. As long as they don't decide to take a run at controlling the Canadian government.

    • Who would ever be so ridiculous as to assert the existence of Methodist peoplehood?

      Or the United Church of Canada Peoplehood wherein I spent my early years. It sounds not only ridiculous but pretentious in the extreme.

      Zionists pretend that Judaism is more than a religion. It is not!!

    • notatall, I know nothing about the Jewish Peoplehood program beyond what I found at the Jewish Peoplehood HUB website. Here is their mission statement:

      "Our mission: Inspired by the promise of the Jewish People to realize its collective potential, we will invigorate the value of "Klal Israel" and nurture commitment to the Jewish future." [Klal Israel apparently translates as the "House of all Israel" whatever that means.]

      "Our role:
      · Articulate Peoplehood language and strategies through a global think-tank
      · Cultivate leaders and activists to embrace the challenges of the Jewish collective
      · Incubate creative ideas for Peoplehood programming
      · Generate Peoplehood actions through conversations, resources and networking

      Our founders: A unique partnership of the UJA – Federation of New York, the NADAV Fund and the Jewish Agency."

      It looks to me as if they are racists masquerading as liberals. No mention of Palestinians anywhere on the two sites I checked. They are planning a big PR campaign.

      Whites against Apartheid? Again, racists masquerading as liberals.

      link to

      link to

    • I'm sure many secular Jews today would agree with you, notatall. And as you no doubt know many of the early Zionists who went to Israel were Marxists.

      I don't think it's up to you and me to insist that Jews live up to our ideals. Given their recent history and relatively small numbers, I for one can appreciate why they might wish to consider themselves members of a tribe.

      Our battle is not with Jews, it is with Zionists of all stripes.

    • "By the way, is a Zionist of non-Jewish ancestry also a Jew, if he says he is?"

      I wouldn't think so. He's likely to be a more than normally deluded Christian Zionist.

    • "I suppose if someone wants to call him- or herself a Jew, then others should respect that. But why someone would do it is beyond me."

      The word "tribe" seems to be important to a lot of secular Jews. The answer to your question may lie within its meaning, notatall.

    • That was easy

      It sure was, eljay. Once Dimadok was forced to drop the Z word, he didn't have a leg to stand on. He was just screwing us around. Irritating that!

    • One of the most hopeful events in US media, in my view, is the return of Bill Moyers to PBS.

      I've just finished watching his first show, 45 minutes of which was taken up with an interview of the two authors of "Winner-Take-All Politics: How Washington Made the Rich Richer--and Turned Its Back on the Middle Class".

      link to

    • Excellent interview this, seafoid.

      “Americans don’t learn about the world, they don’t study world history, other than American history in a very one-sided fashion, and they don’t study geography,” Brzezinski says. “In that context of widespread ignorance, the ongoing and deliberately fanned fear about the outside world, which is connected with this grandiose war on jihadi terrorism, makes the American public extremely susceptible to extremist appeals.” But surely most Americans are tired of overseas adventures, I say. “There is more scepticism,” Brzezinski concedes. “But the susceptibility to demagoguery is still there.”

    • If you not practicing Judaism and do not believe in Israel being Jewish Zionist State, what other connection to Jewish tradition and beliefs do you have?

      Dimadok, are you being purposely obtuse?

      Judaism is a religion, Zionism is a political ideology.

    • I wish more of the normalised ones would speak up.

      I do too, seafoid. It's beginning to happen, but far too slowly. There is such a load of lies—past and present—to dispel. It's not surprising John Q Public and his wife haven't been seized with this issue. It is truly a nightmare.

    • Countries descend into destructive funks for various reasons. Israel entered this state around 2001 when Sharon took over. The insanity can go on for 40 years and more. Afghanistan shows the way.

      The Zionists' colonial project in Palestine should never have been attempted, seafoid.
      It has always been doomed to failure. We haven't got 40 years to waste on this colossal folly.

  • Silenced in Seattle, SeaMAC presses on with ads against settlements, child imprisonment and collective punishment
    • How about this for a more professional touch, Also for when APAIC are in town. here link to

      Brilliant concept, Harry! Not as cheap as the sail, but potentially very useful in North America where the screws turn tight quickly on ads against Apartheid Israel.

      How can we be so blind on this side of the pond? It defies understanding.

  • Beinart and the crisis of liberal Zionism
    • (!!) you say, annie. It was too early in the am for (!!) :-)

    • I hope so, Donald. I'd not read any of Elizabeth's comments before, and I was floored by this one. Thanks.

    • "Who could ask more? What do the Palestinians care for the right to return to their homes? What does full, equal citizenship mean to Arab Israelis? Nothing, compared to what Beinard is willing to give up. I wish there was just a little more appreciation here for the sacrifices this guy is making." (my bold)

      Do you realize what you've written here, Elizabeth?

    • Wilhelm Marr has a lot to answer for in my book, Citizen.

      Why did he conflate the word “Semitismus” with the word “Judentum”?
      Was he not in command of a dictionary or encyclopedia?

      More from Wiki:

      "The Semitic languages are a group of related languages whose living representatives are spoken by more than 270 million people across much of the Middle East, North Africa and the Horn of Africa. They constitute a branch of the Afroasiatic language family. The most widely spoken Semitic languages today are Arabic[1] (206 million native speakers),[2] Amharic (27 million),[3][4] Hebrew (about 7 million)[5] Tigrinya (6.7 million),[6] and Aramaic (about 2.2 million).

      Semitic languages are attested in written form from a very early date, with texts in Eblaite and Akkadian appearing from around the middle of the third millennium BC,...."

    • So, in a nutshell: abuse of Jews = Judeophobia; anti-Semitism = obfuscation/an abuse of the English Language for propaganda purposes (instigated by Zionists)."

      Couldn't agree more! I've been encouraging mondo readers for some months to start using "Judeophobia" instead of anti-Semitism. Without much luck I must add.

      I now have five reasons for making the switch:

      1. It's the correct word, as you say.

      2. It would give some degree of comfort to the long-suffering Palestinians and other Arabs to have the use of the word anti-Semitism back again.

      3. The word Judeophobia provides a welcome symmetry with the word Islamophobia.

      4. The word Judeophobia, I'm told, is 'red-lined' in the power centres in Israel and thus would serve as a useful irritant.

      5. Judeophobia has only eleven letters and is MUCH easier to type than anti-Semitism. The word seemed awkward when I first started using it, but I soon got used to it.

    • I can’t see much intelligence, unless it’s in mere wordplay, in endlessly failing to see that this position is not only illiberal but indefensible and endlessly making noisy accusations of intellectual failure against other people.

      Well said, Martin. Intelligence is not in play here, only self-deception and self-delusion.

    • Peter Beinart comes across as an awfully arrogant fellow. And confused to boot!

      Liberal Zionists, eh?? What a bunch of swell folks!

  • Palestinian drivers challenge Israeli-only roads in the West Bank
    • "Today's" list has one hopeful item that should be highlighted:

      The publication by Corporate Watch of a new, comprehensive, 368 page downloadable booklet for those participating in the Boycott Divestment Sanctions (BDS) movement.

      It's titled Targeting Israeli Apartheid and details who is profiting from the illegal Israeli occupation of Palestinian and Syrian territories as well as Israel's inhumane blockade of the Gaza Strip.

      link to

  • Activists respond to Sodastream's defense of profiting off the occupation
    • It is irresponsible of you to support this effort unless you have a true plan to alleviate the suffering of the Palestinian employees.

      You apparently will say anything to have the last word, 3e. Your masters at Hasbara Central must be very proud.

      To recap: Palestinians asked the world's peoples to launch a BDS campaign.
      And yes, mondo readers do have "a true plan to alleviate the suffering of the Palestinian employees". It is to bring to justice and freedom to all Palestinians.

    • Why did the employees take these jobs in the first place if BDS means more to them than the job?

      Shmuel handled that question above, 3e, but I will repeat his answer here:

      "Palestinian workers often have no choice but to work in the settlements, with high unemployment rates that are a direct result of the Israeli occupation. The 2011 United Nations Conference on Trade and Development report explicitly links the decline in Palestinian agricultural and industrial sectors and the dire humanitarian conditions with Israeli government policies, in particular the confiscation of land and natural resources, restrictions on movement of people and goods, and isolation from international markets. Only a colonial mindset could claim to provide jobs to the very same people whose land and freedom have been stolen."

    • Simple question: Why did you not respond to my answer? i.e. "The Palestinians themselves asked the peoples of the world to launch a BDS campaign."

      Has it not occurred to you 3e that Palestinians will never give up their struggle for freedom and justice? That to them this struggle means more than anything your zionist oligarchs can provide in the way of jobs?

    • I just don’t get it.

      Have you not heard the news, 3e? The Palestinians themselves asked the peoples of the world to launch a BDS campaign.

    • Thanks for bringing this cogent response of the Italian Stop Sodastream BDS campaign to our attention, Adam.

      In following your links, I learned about "Carmel Agrexco (or in short Agrexco) which, according to wiki, was established in 1956 and is Israel's largest exporter of agricultural produce, with the European Union one of its major markets. The EU BDS campaign against Agrexco appears to have helped boost it into liquidation.

      link to

  • A personal appeal-- PennBDS needs your help
    • A new BDS handbook has just been released in the UK and is available for download at link to

      It is 368 pages long and seems pretty comprehensive to me. Here the toc:

      Targeting Israeli apartheid – a boycott, divestment
      and sanctions handbook

      Part one: Overview of the Israeli Economy
      Page 1 Israel’s export trade
      Page 3 The effect of the BDS movement on exports
      Page 5 Holding companies
      Page 7 Banking and financial services
      Page 16 Agriculture
      Page 36 Extractive industries
      Page 47 Energy
      Page 55 Telecommunications
      Page 61 Tourism
      Page 68 Freight transport
      Page 73 Public transport
      Page 77 Academia
      Page 88 Manufacturing overview
      Page 91 Israel’s settlement industrial zones
      Page 124 Military industry
      Page 149 High-tech
      Page 161 Diamonds
      Page 168 Pharmaceuticals
      Page 178 Construction and real estate
      Page 215 Franchises
      Part two: Geographical Case Studies
      Page 221 The Syrian Golan
      Page 230 The Jordan Valley
      Page 240 East Jerusalem
      Page 255 The Dead Sea
      Page 259 The Naqab
      Part Three: The UK - Bringing the Fight Home
      Page 277 Arms companies in the UK
      Page 288 Israeli companies with British shareholders
      Page 291 Banks
      Page 294 Retail
      Page 307 Universities
      Page 317 Pension funds
      Page 329 Charities

    • Hi annie, mondo readers interested in the Penn State BDS conference may be interested in this report by Jeff Halper co-founder and coordinator of the Israeli Committee Against House Demolitions. ICAHD uses non-violent, direct-action means of resistance to end Israel's policy of demolishing Palestinian homes in the Occupied Territories.

      Here's an example of what Jeff Halper and his group are up against:

      Jeff Halper

      "This morning I got a call from Jawdi Jaber, a Palestinian friend from the Baka Valley near Hebron. Settlers from Kiryat Arba, the large settlement/city built on his land and literally on top of his house, had thrown a barrage of rocks and stones at his family’s home and had burned his car.

      It wasn’t much of a car, a battered old 1979 Peugeot mini-van, but it was vital for his family. Jawdi used it to make frequent visits to the hospital with his ill 90 year-old mother, not being able to afford an ambulance each time. On very rainy days he’d take his kids to school: 4 miles on foot over rocky mountain paths on most days, and not infrequently the kids would be attacked by Israeli settlers in the area, sometimes with baseball bats. When he had something to sell (the Israeli authorities tore out all his irrigation pipes this year and most of his crops – tomatoes, cucumbers and grapes – dried up and died), he would load the vegetables in his van and take them to the market in Hebron. The car was “the arms and legs of the family,” he told me this family, his voice resigned and quiet.

      It was one of those “little” incidents that never get reported, part of the fabric of daily violence suffered by Palestinians of all ages. “I have never known a day of just normal happiness my whole life,” Jawdi recently told me. In 2001 he tried to build a small home for his wife and five children on his family’ land adjacent to his parents’ four-room home in which 17 people were living; in 2002 it was demolished by the Israeli authorities, only one of the 26,000 Palestinian homes have been demolished in the Occupied Territory since 1967 because Israel refuses to grant Palestinians building permits.

      Jawdi’s brother Atta, who lives on the hill opposite, has had his home demolished three times. In January, 2000, settlers invaded Atta’s house on a Friday, threw the family out of their home, stayed there over the Sabbath (under police protection), then, on Saturday night, burned the home, desecrated the Quranic passage over the door and left. No one arrested.

      If anyone tries to tell you that Israel does not engage in ethnic cleansing or that what it does is for reasons of “security,” take them to the Jaber family. Nice people (Jawdi and Atta both speak fluent English) whose wives, Aisha and Rudina, will make you delicious maklubeh and who kids are bright and photogenic – but be aware, you are in the presence of genuine heroes. These are people who are scared, wounded, traumatized, sad, impoverished and oppressed, but they are sumud, steadfast. The Jabers will prevail. They have the strength to resist whatever violence, injustice and pain the Israeli government, its settlers and its apathetic population can bring to bear. Indeed, theirs are the shoulders upon which our world rests.

      Only one thing can break them. Not the American “superpower” with its hi-tech military and “pro-Israel” Congress and Administration, not America’s European lackey governments with no courage to enforce the human rights they so loudly proclaim, but us. We can break the Jabers will to resist if we abandon them, if we, the good and privileged people, remain silent. Imagine yourself standing with Jawdi and his family this morning beside their smoldering car. What are you going to do about it?"

  • Trivializing the anti-Semitism charge
    • But people should start doing just that…. American

      I agree, it is mind-boggling to discover that no one has ever before filed a libel suit against an unfair charge of Judeophobia / anti-Semitism.

      Canadian Ed Corrigan's libel suit is apparently the first of its kind; one might say that the political grip of the worldwide Israel Lobby is weakening.

    • Is a trial date set? [For the precedent-setting Canadian libel lawsuit: "Is criticism of Israel or Zionism anti-Semitic?"]

      Not that I know of, Chet. I'll keep my ear to the ground and let you know when it goes to trial.

    • Precedent-setting Canadian libel lawsuit: Is criticism of Israel or Zionism anti-Semitic?

      Opening paras:

      "London Immigration lawyer Ed Corrigan said his libel case against Will Hector for calling him "one of the worst anti-Semites in Canada and an idiotic spammer," in an email to the Law Union of Ontario (LUO) List forum, will be a precedent setting legal decision on the question: "is criticism of Israel or Zionism anti-Semitic?"

      Mr. Corrigan is certified by the Law Society of Upper Canada as a Specialist in Citizenship and Immigration and Immigration and Refugee Protection. He has had extensive experience representing Palestinian refugees, winning around 88 per cent of those refugee claims.

      The Law Union of Ontario is an organization of lawyers and law students which is active on legal issues and human rights issues in the province of Ontario and across Canada. Mr. Corrigan participated in Israel-Palestinian debates through the LUO List forum.

      Mr. Hector, who has practised law as a private lawyer, was a member of the LUO when he sent the email, as part of an ongoing debate about Israeli-Palestinian issues.

      After reading Mr. Hector's Statement of Defence, Mr. Corrigan said it is clear the defence intends to argue that anything other than trivial matters criticizing Israel is anti-Semitic.

      “People throwing out the allegation of anti-Semitism to attack people critical of Israeli policies and defending Palestinian human rights is very damaging,” Mr. Corrigan said. “They don't deal with the facts. They use ad hominem smear tactics to silence debate.”

      He added that if this allegation of anti-Semitism is not refuted in a libel action it will stand against him in terms of his public and professional career and it will stifle debate.

      “If not withdrawn by the defendant or deemed libelous and defamatory by the court the charge of anti-Semitism can be levelled at any person who criticizes Israel, or anyone who posts articles critical of Israel on a list serve, or who tries to publicly defend Palestinian human rights.”

      link to

  • Santorum is a one-stater-- he says all of West Bank is Israel
    • For pete's sake, 3e, you guys write Israel's wiki entries. Try quoting a reliable source.

    • Can you spell the words 'Cabinet' 'posts', 3e? Don't try to divert.

      You have the spitting, flithy-diaper-throwing Black Hats in their urban ghettos and the murderous land-and-water-thieving settlers on the hill-tops. These are your high-birth areas. Check those OECD statistics on the state of education in Israel again, 3e. And be very afraid. Theocracy, 3e. I did warn you.

      And hey, what are you personally doing to improve education in Israel. Do you belong to a parent-teacher group? Do you volunteer? What are your children's schools like?

    • You are a laugh, lobbyist 3e. Do a search for OECD under "eee" and you come up with 12 items. You sure do like OECD statistics when they suit you!

      Face it, that OECD report card on Israeli Education at all levels is BAD news.

      And it says volumes about the dim future of Apartheid Israel. The ultra-religious fanatics will rule the Knesset. Theocracy, eee, I warned you.

    • Take any measure of human development you want to compare Israel to its neighbors,… Try this article on for size, 3e....again..... I'm still waiting for a reply.

      Israel’s bizarre decision to give up on education – and its future

      As Israelis, Palestinians and the rest of the world deal with the crimes of the occupation and the possibilities of one state or two – Israel’s choices in education show it has already decided to give up on the state that already exists. December 5 2011, Ami Kaufman

      link to

  • Arendt: Born in conflict, Israel will degenerate into Sparta, and American Jews will need to back away
    • Take any measure of human development you want to compare Israel to its neighbors,... Try this article on for size, 3e.

      "Israel’s bizarre decision to give up on education – and its future"

      As Israelis, Palestinians and the rest of the world deal with the crimes of the occupation and the possibilities of one state or two – Israel’s choices in education show it has already decided to give up on the state that already exists. December 5 2011, Ami Kaufman

      link to

  • Kept from their land by the Separation Wall, Palestinians risk losing their land due to Israeli 'absentee' laws
  • Thank you!
  • Gingrich's backer Adelson outdoes 'invented people' smear in address to 'Birthright' youth
  • Introducing Freedom Funnies - 'My Name is Samia Halaby'
  • The gift of the Jews
    • My experience has been that the “very peaceable” Anabaptists can be quite totalitarian if they feel their religious beliefs are challenged by reason.

      Yes, tombishop, I was afraid my 'pie in the sky' analysis wouldn't wash. Bible literalists are not noted for being open-minded. I can well imagine what it must have been like growing up gay and 'progressive' in such a community. 'Difficult' and 'lonely' would probably not begin to cover your experience.

    • Good for you, taxi. Another wonderful piece of writing.

      One thing though, I can find no indication on the web that Doris Lessing is dead. Phil will have to find another way to make amends.

    • There is only one human race. There are no moral supermen, either by ancestry or by culture.

      Thanks, mh. You are a treasure on this site.

    • Thanks for this post, tombishop. Your gentle prodding, I hope, will encourage Phil to give up his "chauvinist streak" for good.

      The paragraph on your Mennonite heritage was most interesting.

      I sometimes think the Plain Folk in their horse and buggies are the only sensible people on the planet. They are in large measure a very peaceable group, and their aversion to science has meant that they play little or no role in the destruction of the environment. They also allow their young people a certain latitude, encouraging a period of "walk about" during which time they can decide for themselves if they wish to adhere to the old ways. Am I being too much of a romantic do you think?

    • I hope that you are able to overcome your distaste for WASPS, Krauss. You certainly showed no sign of it when you attacked me the other day.

      Statements like this one don't give me much hope:

      I believe in Jewish power, I truly believe in it. If Jews as a group overwhelmingly decides to do something, or to prevent something, I deeply believe that we can be more successful in that area than virtually any other group, even one which is a hundred times larger than us.

      As for your last paragraph in this post, I for one can't make head nor tail of it. Can you explain what you mean by your last statement. Who is the "Other" pray tell?

      This is why I kept bringing up the WASPs, why I think Philip himself returns to the WASPs so often on this site, they are a key to understanding ourselves and how we deal with the world. The WASPs, together with Doris Lessing’s book raise the same question but from different angles, when contrasted with Israel and the total support for it’s apartheid: Can we only be truly moral when attacking the Other?

  • Israeli army policy of calling West Bank 'Judea and Samaria' ups the likelihood of religious conflict
    • Thanks for following up Krauss's link annie and giving the other side of the story.

      Krauss appears to be a Jewish supremacist; as such he needs careful watching.

  • BDS comes to Penn
  • BDS victory: Veolia loses huge waste-treatment contract in London boroughs
    • What a legal maze you must navigate in this crucial BDS work, Harry! I wish you all the best with it.

      "excluded French multinational Veolia from a £485 million contract"
      Terrific news, this.

  • My own Mondo Award inspiration entry: a long-distance marriage born of the Arab Spring
    • Lina Al-Sharif 's story of the online tweet that led to her marriage with Mohammed Haddad is an excellent entry for the Mondo Awards, annie.

      It speaks of the sorrows of the worldwide Gazan diaspora, the present insanity of the Rafah crossing, and of love that will not be denied.

      Best wishes to both Lina and Mohammed.

  • 'This is awful,' Bush said, coming into Bethlehem
    • Thanks, MH. This information is most helpful.

      How much better it would have been for the entire world if Balfour had stuck to reading his official papers and studying the facts!

      You will agree, I'm sure, that Lloyd George and Balfour were committed to the Zionist project in Palestine not just because God commanded it; there was after all the not insignificant matter of Empire.

      George Eliot, as you know, was an English woman novelist whose real name was Mary Anne (Mary Ann, Marian) Evans. She was born on 22 November 1819 and died on 22 December 1880, according to Wiki.

      One thing that puzzles me (and it came up again in my run-in with Krauss up-thread) is why Jews are not keen to hear that Christians had a big hand in the Zionist Project. You would think they would be all too happy to share the blame for the abomination that Israel has become. Do you have any thoughts on this?

    • Thanks very much for this informative post, teta.

      I was especially interested to hear the anecdote from Niall Fergusson’s biography of the Rothschilds.

    • Major divisions within Christianity. From Wiki

      1 Catholicism
      1.1 Catholic Church
      1.2 Other churches
      2 Eastern Orthodoxy
      2.1 Eastern Orthodox Church
      2.2 Other churches
      3 Oriental Orthodoxy
      4 Church of the East
      5 Protestantism
      5.1 Pre-Lutheran Protestants
      5.2 Lutheranism
      5.3 Anglicanism
      5.4 Reformed Churches
      5.5 Presbyterianism
      5.6 Congregationalist Churches
      5.7 Anabaptists
      5.8 Brethren
      5.9 Methodists
      5.10 Pietists and Holiness Churches
      5.11 Baptists
      5.12 Apostolic Churches – Irvingites
      5.13 Pentecostalism
      5.14 Charismatics
      5.15 African Initiated Churches
      5.16 United and uniting churches
      5.17 Religious Society of Friends (Quakers)
      5.18 Stone-Campbell Restoration Movement
      5.19 Southcottites
      5.20 Millerites and comparable groups
      5.21 British-Israelism
      5.22 Miscellaneous/Other
      5.23 Christian Revival Church
      6 Latter Day Saints
      6.1 Original denomination
      6.2 "Prairie Saint" denominations
      6.3 Rocky Mountains denominations
      6.4 Other denominations
      7 Nontrinitarian groups
      7.1 Oneness Pentecostalism
      7.2 Unitarianism and Universalism
      7.3 Bible Student groups
      7.4 Swedenborgianism
      7.5 Other non-Trinitarians
      8 New Thought
      9 Messianic Judaism / Jewish Christians
      10 Esoteric Christianity
      11 Syncretistic religions incorporating elements of Christianity
      12 See also
      13 References

    • So speaking about “British Christians” does not say ANYTHING.

      Mm... Christians living in Britain? Mostly Anglicans, but other sects as well.

      I don't quite get your point, dumvita.

      What is more interesting to me about the word "British" is that it seems to be on its way to oblivion. Slowly, mind you. But with Scotland about to secede from the Union, and Ireland gone except for Ulster, the term 'Great Britain' is losing its punch. Soon we'll be just saying English and Ulster-ish. Doesn't have quite the same ring, don't you think?

    • Interesting, MRW. This was the question I asked Krauss, but as he doesn't appear to be an American he was clearly the wrong man to ask.

      So, here's Wiki telling us that, "On June 20, 1977, Mr. Menachem Begin, head of the Likud party - after having won the Knesset elections (17 May 1977) - presented the new Government to the Knesset and became Prime Minister of Israel." And more Wiki: "The 1979 Egypt–Israel Peace Treaty".

      So, it was in the early 1980's that Begin and Jerry Falwell made a deal because "both the Likud and the Christian Right hated homosexuals, and wouldn’t it be great if they could work together to end this scourge, all other religious differences notwithstanding. Falwell fell for it."

      And the rest is history!

      Crazy crazy world, huh. Humans....just a bunch of chattering monkeys.

    • "The first being that the Balfour Declaration came into being in 1917, not 1830 (you’re off by almost 100 years, well done)."


      I did indeed forget to put in the 1917 date, but if you re-read my sentence you will see that I was NOT implying that the Balfour Declaration came into effect in 1830. And yes, David Lloyd George was PM from 1916-1922.

      You are certainly quick to take offense and to be offensive.

      Whether you like it or not, Christian Zionists were a major force in getting Israel going. And they are today a major force in keeping it going.

      I've not read enough of your comments to know whether you are an Israeli apologist or not. But I'm beginning to suspect you are.

      Your final paragraph is most peculiar, sad even. You seem so anxious to dismiss me for getting "the most basic history wrong".

      Perhaps there is a language problem. I gather English is not your first language.

    • The Christian Zionist lobby is merely a few years old, even if the debate in the MSM sometimes gives the impression that they’ve been around forever and are omnipotent.

      Krauss, I'd like to know exactly what you mean by your statement.

      We know, for instance, it was British Christians who were the first Zionists, way back in the 1830's, and that there were four or so Christian Zionists in Lord Balfour's war cabinet when the fateful Balfour Declaration came into being.

      We know too it was the Michigan born Cyrus Scofield who in 1909 produced the popular Scofield Reference Bible which became the bible of Christian Zionists.

      Can you, for instance, date the year that the Christian Zionist Lobby came into existence?

  • Two critiques of Norman Finkelstein
    • DONOR OPIUM, the impact of international aid to Palestine

      link to

      This video was uploaded Dec.20, 2011 with this introduction:

      “For twenty years now the international donor community has financially supported Palestinian institution-building, infrastructure development, the economy, public employees’ salaries, health and education, social welfare, the police, electricity production, private credit guarantees, and the bigger part of the civil society organizations with regards to democracy promotion, human rights, tolerance, women rights etc.

      Peace and the establishment of a Palestinian state have been the declared goals of all the support. But actual results are the fragmentation and pacification of the Palestinian people.

      This documentary film, directed by Mariam Shahin and George Azar, and funded by the Rosa Luxemburg Foundation, features Palestinian criticism of this externally funded “development”.”
      Note: I posted this notice of this video on the Christmas Greeting thread but it has, I think, relevance on this thread as well.

    • Phil, thanks for setting up this discussion of Prof. Finkelstein's views. It was (is) excellent.

      My take-away, along with a far greater understanding of the man, is the belief that MW must not only continue but expand its coverage of BDS activities. All of us need to get on the BDS bandwagon. BDS is the tool that will do the job that needs doing.

  • Christmas greeting from Palestine 2011
    • Conflict of Loyalty: A look at the questions of loyalty and identity facing Israel's Druze community.

      Interesting Al Jazeera article sent to me by my Toronto newsgroup.
      link to

    • DONOR OPIUM, the impact of international aid to Palestine

      link to

      This video was uploaded Dec.20, 2011 with this introduction:

      "For twenty years now the international donor community has financially supported Palestinian institution-building, infrastructure development, the economy, public employees' salaries, health and education, social welfare, the police, electricity production, private credit guarantees, and the bigger part of the civil society organizations with regards to democracy promotion, human rights, tolerance, women rights etc.

      Peace and the establishment of a Palestinian state have been the declared goals of all the support. But actual results are the fragmentation and pacification of the Palestinian people.

      This documentary film, directed by Mariam Shahin and George Azar, and funded by the Rosa Luxemburg Foundation, features Palestinian criticism of this externally funded "development"."

  • The Ron Paul moment-- bad and good
  • We've almost reached our fundraising goal--please kick in!
    • A fundraiser appeal wherein I take a tough stand on Israel Lobbyists.

      The other day I posted this comment on the "Why did it take 6 years to talk about the Israel Lobby?" thread:

      "Newcomers may be interested to know that hophmi is a lobbyist for the Israel Lobby. He accuses me of "playing dirty" by announcing this on Mondoweiss. My answer to him: We are not engaged in a game on this site."

      "The Israel Lobby is a cancer that must be excised from the body politic in countries around the globe. The ill-conceived Zionist colonial project in Palestine has put people everywhere in grave danger."

      "You'll find another Israel lobbyist ("eee") on this thread. Phil and Adam might consider insisting that all lobbyists identify themselves as such in their commenter profiles, and that they make a donation to Mondoweiss before they start spewing their propaganda"

      I encourage all newcomers to make a donation to Mondoweiss, and consider doing some fundraising. In the short time I've been here, the site has grown by leaps and bounds, and as Phil states in his fundraiser appeal "it doesn't run on fumes."

    • MONDOWEISS Winter FUNDRAISER: More Suggestions

      For commenters and readers who want to pitch in and do some fund raising, the most important points it seems to me are these:

      Mondoweiss Objectives: 2011 Winter Fundraiser

      1. To stop the atrocities perpetrated daily against Palestinians by violent and brainwashed IDF youths, and by murderous, land-thieving, illegal settlers who live on the hilltops.

      2. To help Palestinians win their 100-year old struggle to free themselves from the Zionist invaders who occupy their lands.

      3. To make citizens aware of the growing political power of the Israel Lobby, as in its growing ability to influence votes in the U.S. Congress. e.g. the 23 standing ovations for Netanyahu. Provide url to Friedman quote re "buying votes."

      4. Money Target, winter 2011: "Our target is $40,000. And half of that is matching funds from generous large donors. So we need $20,000 from readers during this holiday season. Our reader fundraising drives account for nearly half our yearly budget, the rest comes from individual donors. We do not receive finding from foundations or organizations. All contributions are tax-deductible, thanks to our sponsor, the Center for Economic Research and Social Change." Phil Weiss

      The Mondoweiss website is growing by leaps and bounds and the level of discussion in the comments sections is often astonishing. Check it out!



      During the last fundraiser, I contacted the offices of two of the wealthiest men in America, through windows on one of their web sites.

      I knew I needed an attention-grabber, and that I would be talking to staff. So I typed in these two sentences:

      Is Mr. X concerned about the growing power of the Israel lobby in American politics?

      If so, would he consider making a donation to Mondoweiss? (I used the url, not the word.)

      I thought this was still a bit skimpy, and I didn't want to leave the impression that this was an official mondo message, so I added one of my seemingly inexhaustible supply of English idioms:

      I am a commenter on Mondoweiss, and I am writing to you off my own bat. After a thank you, I typed my name.

      I don't know if either man gave a donation, but I do think my attention-grabber was pretty good.

    • I'm starting do some fundraising for mondo. I hope it pans out.

      For anyone who wants to pitch in, the most important piece of information imo is this:

      "Here is Phil Weiss writing about the current fundraiser:

      "Our target is $40,000. And half of that is matching funds from generous large donors. So we need $20,000 from readers during this holiday season. Our reader fundraising drives account for nearly half our yearly budget, the rest comes from individual donors. We do not receive finding from foundations or organizations.
      All contributions are tax-deductible, thanks to our sponsor, the Center for Economic Research and Social Change."

      I also added:

      The site has grown since I joined, and the level of discussion in the comments sections is often astonishing. I mostly read and learn, but I do make the odd comment under the handle patm.

      When I wrote to a longtime friend asking how to reach their Jewish friends in NY, I added:

      I've no idea if they are anti-Zionists or 'liberal' Zionists; it is the latter group that needs to get on the bandwagon, and pronto.

  • Israel says it's 'disgusting' for world to take stand on 'domestic affair' --settlers
    • “Israel was assaulted with every minute detail, mentioning every mosque that was torched.”

      Oh, poor babies! How could the UN be so CRUEL!!

  • Only a grinch could like restrictions on Palestinian Christians' travel
    • That's great about some of your news items getting into the MSM, Kate.

      I do believe that the archive of your record (and Shadi Fadda's) of Israeli atrocities will be of great importance one day. Cheers, Pat

    • john h, do you think there is a way to get these two articles into the hands of Christian Zionists?

      We've been told on mondo by a Palestinian woman who knows this community well that they listen to and watch only Church News. Would that be your view as well? Thanks pat

    • Kate, thanks for all your work putting this grim list together.

      The depravity of the Zionists seems to know no bounds.

      Some progress in the Palestinian unity talks, which is good.

    • Yes, thanks John h.

      If only Christian Zionists everywhere could read these two articles.

      If only their lying deceitful leaders would allow them to read such truths.

      Rats! "could" "would" "should" words with no teeth.

  • Israel's image tanks as it slowly loses support of US media and Europe
    • Here's another 'sign of the times' article from Alternet December 16, 2011"

      Has the Israel Lobby Gone Too Far? Will a recent attack on progressive journalists help spark a sea-change in the debate over Middle East policy?

      Opening paras:

      "When Josh Block, a former communications director for the American Israeli Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) sent an “oppo dump” about a group of progressive journalists and bloggers at the Center for American Progress (CAP) and Media Matters to a list-serv of conservative journalists and asked them to push the narrative that the writers were echoing “the words of anti-Semites,” he probably didn't think much of it.

      After all, this is how self-identified “pro-Israel” activists have long policed the discourse surrounding the Middle East conflict and the “special relationship” that exists between the United States and Israel.

      In 2009, an influential Israeli think-tank carefully cherry-picked posts from the Huffington Post, Daily Kos and Salon, quoted them out of context and concluded that “progressive blogs and news sites in the United States are a new field where Jew-hatred, in both its classic and anti-Israeli forms, manifests itself.” Avocates of maintaining the destructive status quo in the Middle East have long attempted to define a “new anti-Semitism” to include criticism of the Israeli government that goes beyond the pale, as they define it. (So-called pro-Israel groups have managed to get the EU to adopt a "working definition" of anti-Semitism that includes harsh criticism of the Israeli government -- a definition Block sent to journalists to ostensibly prove his case.)

      But Block appears to have made a crucial miscalculation. He wasn't smearing Middle East studies professors, Palestinian rights activists or liberal bloggers; he went after two very mainstream Washington DC think-tanks that are closely connected with the Democratic establishment. And he did so at a time when the debate over U.S. policy towards Israel is becoming more partisan than ever before (the GOP has worked hard to paint Obama as “anti-Israel”) and tensions between the White House and the Netanyahu government are running high. After all, this is how self-identified “pro-Israel” activists have long policed the discourse surrounding the Middle East conflict and the “special relationship

      link to

  • Bias in the Great Library at Alexandria?
    • Woody's right, I'm afraid MRW. He's taken a thumping at
      Here are a couple of comments"

      grypo says:
      4 Aug 2011 at 12:13 PM
      This seems to be the crux of Salby’s argument:

      “The trend in CO2 derives from a hysteresis in its
      annual cycle: More is emitted during half of the
      year than is absorbed during the other half. The
      residual, which accumulates to fo rm the trend,
      provides a record of net emission. It is shown
      to track the satellite record of global -mean
      temperature, which fl uctuates b etween years.
      Temperature changes of 0.5 – 1.0 K are attended
      by modulations o f C O2 emission as large as
      100%. Much the same dependence is exhibited
      by isotopic composition. The temperature
      dependence o f CO2 parallels that of water vapor,
      the dominant greenhouse gas. Such dependence
      governs CO2 emission for temperature changes
      that are clearly of different origin, including the
      eruption of Pinatubo and the 1997-1998 El Nino.”

      link to

      [Response: Yes. Having now listened to the podcast, I thnk he has done a regression of growth rate to temperature (and soil moisture) over the recent period. The sensitivity he then derives is projected back using the 0.8 deg C warming over the 20th C. However, this is ludicrous - the sensitivity in the recent period can't be more than say, 1 ppmv per 0.1 deg C. Projected back you would have say a 10 ppmv (max) change over the 20th C. Paleo-climate constraints demonstrate that CC feedback even on really long time scales is not more than 100 ppmv/6 deg C (i.e. 16 ppmv/deg C), and over shorter time periods (i.e. Frank et al, 2010) it is more like 10 ppmv/deg C. Salby's sensitivity appears to be 10 times too large. Someone might want to have a look at the data and redo the regressions, but the physics is screwy. - gavin]

      rustneversleeps says:
      4 Aug 2011 at 12:37 PM
      Curry highlight’s Salby’s Fundamentals of Atmospheric Physics as “a popular introductory graduate text”. Don’t know if that’s true, but it’s interesting to see who the “Senior Editor” is. One Roger Pielke Sr.

      She also points to a synopsis of some talk Salby was to deliver. With nothing more than that, it’s hard to say what his points are, but there do appear to be some howlers. For instance, in the concluding paragraph he states:
      “The satellite record of global temperature, in tandem with the instrumental record of CO2, provides a population of climate perturbations. Of natural origin, they establish the climate sensitivity of CO2 with respect to changes of temperature. The climate sensitivity enables the natural component of CO2 to be evaluated.”

      So, in his definition, “climate sensitivity” is a measure of the response of CO2 to temperature. That, he implies, is determined using just the satellite temperature record and corresponding atmospheric CO2 record. And then you use that derived “climate sensitivity” to determine the natural contribution of CO2????? Wha???

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