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The War of Ideas in the Middle East
"Palestine is not Israel. Israel cannot be independent and a part of Palestine." not entirely true. If Israeli territory is illegally aquired palestinian territory than technically it can be in palestine as illegally aquired lands are still considered to legally be owned by the legal owners. also the word palestine can refer to a state and a geographical area hence Israel can be entirely distinct from the state of palestine and still be in the geographical area of palestince kinda of like pakistan being part of the indian subcontinent while not being part of the state of india.
If you want reconcilation don't say slanderous things like the poles assisted the nazis.
I'm sorry being called on your blatent prejudice where it comes from in determing how bad killings are. most people find your belittling ever other groups suffering offensive so you don't really have a leg to stand on. Your allowed to be outraged about killing of jews but when you get pissy when other groups are outraged against their suffering because oh dear they didn't suffer as much as we did doesn't make it your outraged it makes it angry that others feel they have suffered in a similiar matter.
No one is saying that but at some point you have been compensated enough which is I believe his point
until Israel stops telling the palestinians to get over it you don't have a point your just being a hypocrite. their are numerous instances of people's dealing with persecution in a generation and working on making sure they don't let it completely color the views and interactions with other groups. what your doing is just as harmful as all the anti semites who wish to hold jews to a higher standard. your demand to hold jews to a lower standard is just as harmful.
of course you aren't only jews have rights as far as you and yours are considered.
Right because no even tried to point blame and manipulate evidence in a mass grave to pin the blame on some one else oh wait there was that whole kerfufle at kaytn less than a decade before. Wait weren't their jews who were in Palestine because they survived the picking of that massacre and went on to destert armed forces fighting the nazis to commit terrorist attacks against the government of a country fighting the nazis. You betcha
Um you just answered your own question unless u believe 30 is less than 12
Nice lie I assume that "attempted war of ahnilatation of 47-49" your referring to the war Zionist jews started to conqueror the country and than since your a bigot blamed the victims in?
I assume your referencing the article on the liberty? And what's anti Semitic about calling a spade a spade?
Actually the city of Samaria was the capital of the ancient kingdom of israel.
Um no they weren't most of it wasn't even in the kingdom of israel
So demanding their legal rights is insane?
So why isn't Palestine allowed to control it's own borders?
Or it could be their language use is down right Orwellian labeling an aggressive war of conquest a war of independence
Only real troublemakers is israel
Only in Russia was the polish language outlawed. The Russian were the worst by far
Funny you would mention what Russia did after the partitions of Poland considering your favorite thugocracy israel is try to do to the Palestinians what russia( and to lesser extent Austria and Prussia) tried to do to the polish: erase their very existence from history
I'm sorry but his references to the article "Throw Away That Rusty Key" makes him just another jew trying to make out the palestinians have no claim to palestine and no right to return to their homes. it comes across heavily as typical zionist jewish elitism and self centeredness. what happened to the jews who were actually expelled( and lets be honest not all of the number claimed were expelled they chose to leave) wasn't any where near the same as what happened to the palestinians. the palestinians were brutally removed from their ethnic homeland with no place else to go and were shot if they attempted to return. the jews had a violent expansionistic state will to take them in and illegally give them other people's property.
bs. the jews started the attacking the palestinians the terror you complain about was of the fear you and yours caused.
What a surprise these terrorist supporters get do donate to a terrorist supporting org and no taxes but legit Palestinian support groups are shut down
More lies from morally challenged Zionist bigots. Israel is the least tolerant of states( not nation). And Palestine is a country just because thugs like you don't recognize the state you zionists conquered doesn't mean it's fake
What invasion of israel there was no invasion I the war of Zionist aggression and conquest also known as the Israeli " war of independence". The only ones doing any invading than were the Israelis.
The settlements are war crimes commuted by genocidal people.
Actually the moment the mandate ended a Palestinian state came into existence and even if we take your stance they weren't a state sovereignty of the territory was universally recognized as belonging to them so they did have territory
Jews aren't an ethnic group. I'm sorry but when your supposed ethnicity isn't even close to being the largest part of one's ethnic make up you got to quit pushing stuff like this
I said worse not the same
Well for starters I'm just gonna have to call bs on this Gil. Israelis are the worst for religious freedom in it. That is the proven fact. To find someone worse you'd have to go back to the crusaders. Also jewish control of Jerusalem was very short about a couple hundred years is all the archeological evidence supports and was never part of the kingdom of israel.
In Jerusalem DNA to be jewish even though jews didn't found it. The entitlement of these people is awe inspiring
Just another day of israel ignoring its legal obligations and committing crimes
The rejection of the illegal partition plan wasn't a mistake for 2 reasons the first being the zionists intended to wage a war of conquest no matter what and secondly they had zero obligation to submit to an attack on their sovereignty to give up part of their territory to a group that flat out stated that it had no intimation of try to peacefully coexist. That you paint it as a mistake only goes to show the sense of entitlement zionists have.
Since the end of World War One when they were recognized as being the group to have sovereignty over Palestine once the British left. The moment the mandatory period ended the state of Palestine came into existence.
No they are a nation territory( if I understand your made up terms correctly) israel just occupies it. Occupied territories still belong to their legal owners
Did you even read the before you started crying about how israel is being persecuted. They weren't talking about the time the un spends on israel as a whole but the time the us spends on israel at the un. And I'm sorry you think the us needs to hurt itself to protect the thugocracy of israel but it shouldn't. The us should focus on what helps the us at the un.
Am I the only person concerned that an american official is seemingly more concerned protecting the interests of a foreign state( one viewed as a threat to our security by our intell agencies to boot) than actually represent the us and its interests
No he didn't. He made an apt one. I'm sorry israel being called what they are offends you but it doesn't change that Kerry description was apt.
What was inappropriate about it? It's validity?
None of those established territorial rights and all can be considered gross violations of the mandates accords to hold the palestians sovereignty in trust not to mention the un charter's requirements of self determination makes them irrelevant as jews couldn't excercise that right their as they weren't in the land
Long yes important not so much. Jews were never more than bit players in the regions hell their is only evidence for maybe a couple hundred years of a sovereign Hebrew state in the region. Most of the important history of the region was due to the major empires squabbling over it.
???? so in your humble opinion its perfectly legal to declare parts of a sovreign territory as yours and not have be a land grab? I'm sorry but that's bullshit. if Israel's land grabs for territory are illegal than its decleration of conquest (declreration of independence) are illelagal as well. or do you feel simply because they claimed such territories they belonged to them? I think you forget the as a class a mandate sovreignty was held in trust the moment the mandate ended palestine became a sovreign territory with the right to keeps its lands intact. at no point have you answered the question I asked why do you feel ISrael's decleration of territory was legal despite being sovreign palestinians territory as recognized by the mandate?
again you talk about how anything outside of Israel decleration is illegal but inside legal again you have repeatedly stated Israel decleration of independence as if was a claim of territory theirs legally it wasn't. there is a huge difference between acknowledging an illegal act that you can't change but to pretend it is legal as your doing is kind of insulting and sets a dangerous precedent for all the other thugs of the world.
I don't understand why you differentiate between land Israel stole after it decleration of "independence" with before. as a class A mandate when it ended the sovreignty reverted to the palestinians as a whole to the entirity of palestine. you argument rest all its ok to declare other entities territory yours. I understand the pravtical reasons for doing so but legally not so much? it seems like an effort to placate Israel for its crimes.
Overflying a location isn't an act of war. Provocative as all hell but not actually an act of war. Unless you believe the Cold War was hot?
Your clearly operating under a different definition of reasonable. For most of us in means a fair chance of happening not you'd have to be completely incompetent to do so. The liberty and the Egyptian vessel were of vastly different sizes different profiles and the liberty was flying her ensign which should have made her next to immpossible to confuse with the other vessel in question. Either.israel knowing attacked an American vessel or it doesn't train it soldiers anywhere near as we'll as it should.
You don't shoot down an ensign twice by accident
actually modern japanese due still expierence it radiation lingers. its not the made up continued suffering of the jewish faith.
The Crusaders were NOT a Holocaust. They were a European response to Muslim aggresssion which had invaded Spain, Southern Italy, Malta, Sicily, etc. The Europeans decided to hit back.
and the baltic crusades. the crusades were an agressive pomgrom designed to kill and subjugate.
doesn't matter if you can vote if you aren't allowed to vote for people who actually represent your interests. palestinians in Israel aren't able to vote for people who will secure their god given and internationally recognized rights.
not anymore and both recognize how they treated them in the poast was wrong and have tried to make amends and recognized their rights. Israel has patently refused to do either. so quit trying to use that tired excuse.
Wow you use wikipedia conviently ignore Israel pushes people to posts lies in its favor on there to control how it is viewed.
your missing the point. in the US we are able to elct representives to give us voice the palestinians aren't.
States have the right to conqueror people and than ethnicly cleanse people because that basicly what your saying with this
"but let’s also bear in mind Israel is a sovereign nation which therefore has the right to determine who gets to settle in the country and who doesn’t"
in reference to the palestinians.
where has BDS ever attacked freedom of speech or freedom of association. your lying is just another strike against zionism. this kind of behavior is pathological in your movement.
and what evidence that ISrael is a threat well the US spook comunity views Israel as the number one national security threat in the middle east.
um its all palestine. staling stuff doesn't mean it stops belong to the legal owners
what acts of war? to my knowledge no muslim state has ever attacked the US. the fact is the only country in the middle east that has actually committed an unambigious act of war against the US was Israel.
No they reserrecuted a dead language hebrew was liturgical language. diet and dress is pretty much a rip off of central and eastern european. there is nothing that makes them distinct outside of religion.
um hebrew was dead as a spoken language for over thousand years. it only survived as a liturgical language. in other words its proof of religion not nation.
except for the fact jews aren't a nation. I'll ask my favorite question to those who push this again. show one major connection not related to religion in their "nation"
um wrong they have a state religion which is different.
Israel is so devolped that almost all oif its vaunted acomplishments are funded by foreign powers.
in other words you involved with demanding the palestinians forget thier rights and submit to their jewish conquerors.
um only the soviets had planes that could reach the the rail lines. and since that would have helped the polish home army they weren't going to do that.
no all judiasm is is a religion anything more they are is a delusion. there is not a single connection that is based in religion. it has no homeland. but why am I agruing with you I'll never know by your own admittision you live in a stolen house on stolen land and think you have a right to it. also the arabs weren't foriegn to palestine. it is as much a homeland to them as the false nation of jewry
no it isn't. jews have next to no connection with the ancient hebrews. theire homelands are from where they ethical backgrounds are. also the ancient kingdom of Israel was about a qurter of the size of the current size of modern ISrael also it din't include Jurusalem.
false? your just richard witty alover again with this tired lie. Self determination is the people of a territory deciding their own political status. zionism and ISrael are the exact opposite of self determination. its people from out side of a territory conquering it.
every other state could be an arab state and it still wouldn't matter. just because other arab peoples have gotten to excersice their right of self determination is zero legal or moral reason to deny the palestinians theirs. the jews have one and legally should have none. jews aren't a nation but a faith. there is zero valid justification for Israel.
actually the comparison is apt. now comparing nazi treatment to jews is a little much but to how the nazis treated some of peoples is basicly the same to how Israel treats the palestinians. look at the nazi occupation of poland and the parallels are striking.
but no one else is going around saying what they are doing is legal and moral. they receive attention you just don't notice it because all the attention is on Israel because it draws attention to it self.
since when do zionists use facts?
A) I am not in favor of a Palestinian state
B) I am not in favor of the right of return for Palestinians outside Israel
C) I am not in favor of diving Jerusalem.
D) I actually think Israel has a right to Judea and Samaria. what a surprise your a zionist against the palestinains legal rights and international law
refugees have the right to return to their homes immigration policy never comes into it. so yeah the palestinians do have some inherent right to enter "ISrael" because before ISrael invaded(well the zionists) it was their country and they already lived there.
no. I'm saying they can its just irrelevant to a moralistic and legal argument. also the palestinian ROR is not an immigration issue. they were a native population illegally removed from their homes and than illegally prevented from returning to their homes not to mention the wholesale theft of their property.
the difference is that germany was a expression of self determination ISrael creation was and is the anthithisis of self determination. it doesn't matter if it was a " legiatmate) expression of setting immigration policy when the that isn't legit. and immigration status doesn't include refusing to let refugees to return to their homes so as usual of zionists your wrong.
but the palestinians were recognized as having soveriegnty. they didn't want zionist jews coopting them. you have supported the zionists efforts to destroy the palestinians ability to make and administer their territory.
but you complain about the palestinians not wanting jewish immigration pre zionist invasion.
Noticed a problem with the 2 polish cities. they were polish cities that were founded by poland( well Wroclaw was founded by the native Silesian people but was incorporated into poland by the piast dynasty. and eventually became part of Bohenia) Gdansk was founded as a polish city and didn't really become german until the deluge.
but since when have zionist have had anything but a tenous connection to reality.
true each jew in palestine was worth 2.5 times as much as each palestinian .
war of survival damn the whole war of independence was orwellian enough but war of survival is about as far from reality. dude they started it and had every advantage trying to pretend the war of zionist conquest the war of survival is a lie of incredible magnitude.
jordan historically was always a seperate terrtiory than palestine just because the british had them linked for like a year and they were part of a larger grouping doesn't mean the palestinians didn't have a right to choose the political status of their territory.
why your like to lie. jews at least in Israel have shown zero willingness to share and compromise. to say that is a complete and utter lie. they have not ever nor will ever share and compromise because of the WANT.
true if a jew wants it as far as your concerned the owners have zero right to it.
Israel on the palestinians
So the palestinians pushing for their rights is a rejection of jewish history. ok to be perfectly honest jewish history really has had a whole lot to do with palestine in the past 2000 years. and sorry it the jews in the israelis ignoring the palestinians history there not the reverse but hey why skip a chance to be bigoted.
am I the only person who finds it wierd that zionist claim Jerusalem as the eternal and undivided capital of Israel having always been such when in ancient times Jerusalem wasn't even in the kingdom of ISrael
so your trying to paint all christians as fundamentalists? north carolina is probably southern baptist and those guys are crazy
jews don't have a right to self determination as jews. they have belonging to the territories they came from. their is no jewish right to self determination in palestine. its one of the biggest lies and frauds ever perpatrated.
damn straight. that's what the goal but sadly no matter what we wish that probably won't happen peacefully. thugs and criminals rarely give up their loot willingly.
of course you are now that most of them you and yours have killed or let die. real moral courage their. kill them all and than say your for them returning. your sick. decendents should get to come back to since Israel denied the right to their parents also to prevent from more sick basterds from trying this stunt in the future.
what a surprise zionists don't want any competetion to getting their message out. guess they aren't that confident on how well it hold up when it has to deal with facts.
lies. there is one christian country the holy see. there may be a couple muslims ones but given what I have seen I doubt their are any and their is one jewish country. personal the christian country and jewish one need to go by by states for religions shouldn't be.
also irrelevant now going by how you judge primary worshiped religion. just because many other highly muslim peoples got to excercise their right to self determination doesn't mean the palestinians shouldn't get theirs.
how you have a pretty screwed up view. its the palestinians territory. just because thugs in ISrael want it doesn't mean it it isn't theirs also the ROR is a legally mandated right that ISrael has criminally prevented for like 70 years
So it the palestinians fault for wanting all their rights and all their territory?
that was kinda of the point their intentional using crap systems to protect them selves.
I work in a electronics store for about a hundred bucks I could get a security system with better quality footage than that. more camera angles too.
so the influx of a thousand or 2 highly trained soldiers from the polish second corps had no bearing on the outcome. all the weaponary the brits turned over to them out of guilt. this had no effect. no the holocaust was very important to the conquest of palestine success
I didn't say the holocaust is the reason the zionists tried to conqueror palestine I said it was the reason they succeded
um the holocaust is the only reason the conquest of palestine was successful. without the influx of resources from countries like the UK and US. the direct military support the UK incidently gave to zionist forces as well as the trained military member who in some cases flat out deserted when located in palestine the conquest would have failed miserablely,
little hint IDF if your worried about your actions being filmed your more than likely doing something your not supposed to be doing.
bullshit. I lost family to their expansionistic greed. no wonder you blaimed the holocaust on poland up their. your a nazi apoligist. the nazis were fond of germanization just as Israel is fond of judization. its the first step to erasing people from history.
the holocaust was german please don't try pretend the poles participated in it.
sounds to me your trying to deflect criticism of germanies crimes onto poland. first off polish anti semitism was not in fact more intense than germany. if you notice all the pogroms and such happened AFTER the communist take over.
so do you think it is ok than for countries like Israel to run out the clock to invalidate the rights of their victims. for me and I'll admit this isn't part on international law is that so long as the victims are prevented from returning to their homes the right should pass to linear decendents. if for no other reason it force victimizers to grant the right.
depends if using it in a strictly spirtual sense to refer a place where a ingathering of faithful is happening no if using it to refer to a specific piece of land yes for the reasons above.
um most Return laws allow for linear descendents almost always for the the same reason the palestinians should be given it. its the hieght of amorality to deny people what is for all intents and purposes their property simply because a group of thugs wishes to deny them said rights.
I never did like the term Eretz Yisrael. it always came across as anchronistic in the modern era as well as being supremely arrogant(which will note is something zionists tend to have in excess). the idea that a group of people who may or may not be decendents of a people who were a middling player in the region to declare all of the region and not just the bits the controlled the land of Israel when other terms were more broadly used and used a longer in history is a bit presumptious. It always did make me look unfavorable of the "Israeli" people when they act like they and they alone are the sole people able to determine what is right in regards to that spot of land.
correct. you not liking being confronted with the ugliness of the results of your choices isn't others creating a hostile enviorment for you; its you lacking the maturity to deal with the consequences of your choices.
the un never recognized a jewish right to a state. they recognized a state of jews after the fact a recognized the idea of a national home but never a state.
and it funny you repeat the tired lie of the arabs wanting to push the jews into the sea when zionists forces actually did push the indigenous palestinians into the sea
calling a technical a show of force just shows how distorted the 2 states effective level of power are distorted media coverage and information is
well you know the whole leaving country of birth to live on land stolen from indigenious population thing
always liked bill maher but when it comes to religion and this conflict(and the crap they put in foods but i digress) he nothing more than a hack. also I find it amusing paint judaism as the least war like of the abrhamic faiths when both christianity and islam have far more restrictions on violance than judaism
their pragmatism and than theirs being to chickenshit to stand up for people's legally mandated rights
no the logical place for them to return was their homes
No it isn't the thieves of sderot aren't protected under article 27 of the fourth geneva conventions do do the war crime of Israel's violation of article 49. you don't get to move to occupied territory to prevent occupied territory from being regained through military means. the palestinians could fucking shell sderot 24 hours a day and it still wouldn't be a war crime. I know as an Israeli you have no actual idea of what actual war crimes given your state has committed thousands of them.
to reiterate sderot and any Israel "civilian" in any area not legally acquired aren't protected under international law. the fact that they are civilians is irrelevant because Israel transfered them via economic incentives to occupied territory.
you mean like you whine about the rocket attacks against the war crime that is sderot even though it is illegal and a warcrime for you to be there?
civilians transfered to occupied territory do not have the protections under article 27 of the fourth geneva convention if they don't like being shot at perhaps they shouldn't have taken the ISrael government up on its incentives to move its civilian population into occupied territory.
your making a couple of mistakes. firstly I was refering solely to nationality being altered with out changing nationality. secondly your equating ethnicity and nationality. yes some who moves from itilay is no longer an italian national but if they had italian ethnicity that wouldn't change. and the jews can claim to be a nation all they want doesn't change the fact that are a religion albit one with a hyper inflated sense of self worth.
for me at least saying that their religion is tied to their nationality( which lets be honest is bs their " nationality" is tied to their religion) is fundemental an admission that jews aren't a nation. because a nation doesn't just disappear if it changes religions.
if the italians stop being catholic they don't stop being italian, but if jews switch faiths than their is no jewish "nation".
exactly. the protections for civilians don't really apply to people who intentionaly go to occupied territory
I'm sorry you don't think you shouldn't be tried to be removed from occupied territory but if you want to live and work their you take the risks. the palestinians have every right to try and regain their occupied land.
couple of problems with that. their "parent-state" never existed. there was not ever a unified monarchy in palestine as a jewish state. secondly the Israel than was about anywhere from a half to a fifth of the size of modern day Israel. if state rebirths in the past couldn't encompass the extent of their previous territory why should a jewish state of Israel be getting more than it ever encompassed. thirdly their parent states weren't the mythical united kingdom but the countries they came from. there was nothing unique in regards to zionism. it was just another attempt to use force to steal from others.
true when you actually think about it rationly( something Israel and its supporters rarely seem to do) it becomes obvious that IRan out of all the countries in the world has the most incentive to prevent nukes from getting into terrorist hands to be used against Israel
given Israel's sociopathic tendencies I always kinda of assumed Israel would just keep expanding until earth was renamed Israel as they would take everything. I mean they have shown repeatedly that they have no problems with naked aggression for land grabs.
well i firmly believe if you took the zionist and than Israel and boiled them down to a single entity that that entity would have to be viewed as a sociopathic creature.
My overall views are that the case for the establishment of a Jewish state was a strong one, this right here is the problem with your views in my opinion at the end of the day you think the basic argument of zionism we want a state therefore we have a right to one and fuck the rights of those who get in our way is a strong shows a crass indifferance that holds quite a bit in common with sociopathy.
to reiterate you think that the mentality of Zionism which when boiled down to an individual would be a sociopath as ok
what they were offered was a direct violation of their rights not that you would care given your support of the Israeli thuggacry. the deaths of Israelis are entirely on Israel they pushed for conflict be invading palestine and attacking the palestinians' rights
true but there are some serious moral quandries with that. like jordan and palestine are distinct entities and going down that path only validates the bigots who have tried to deny the palestinians their peoplehood.
poland wasn't a free country in 46. and I wasn't blaming the nazis. I was blaming the soviets you know who installed a puppet regime in poland.
oh and mention the 46 pogrom only helps prove my point. hell their is a theory that the communist puppet government incited the riot to discredit the legitiamte government in exile.
so you won't to blame a country that did regain total independence until the late 80's? blame russia or germany as occupiers but not poland