Total number of comments: 81 (since 2009-08-12 13:59:15)
Polly
Male, 48 years
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- Resume builders: Be a broken record on Iran, cheer authoritarians … 1
- UN Committee: Israeli system ‘tantamount to apartheid’ 0
- Slater on Beinart 0
- And we live on… 0
- US official — we went to Israel first 3
- Israel lobby’s favorite senator tries to erase Palestinian refugee status … 23
- Israel takes 30 dunams of land near Salfit ‘for security … 4
- Aaron David Miller: After a short ‘peace process,’ look … 38
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- BDS victory: South Africa strips Ahava’s ‘made in Israel’ label 713
- Video: Israeli mob demands all African refugees be deported from … 475
- Day after pogroms, Likud MK calls for internment camp for … 427
- Neverending Nakba: Israel breaks lull, attacks Gazan farmers 413
- ‘This is not fair play’: Mahmoud Sarsak’s family demands his … 389
- March of the Flags 345
- Neocons in Washington Post: Military strike on Iran would ‘calm … 323
- Nabi Saleh’s Bassem Tamimi convicted by Israeli courts based on … 293
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- The Messiah’s Donkey: Settlers fire on Palestinian villagers as the … 235
- Aharon Appelfeld’s rage at the German language (and Arendt’s need … 156
- US to differentiate between ‘personally displaced’ Palestinian refugees and their … 129
- March of the Flags 127
- Affirming a Judaism and Jewish identity without Zionism 110
- Feeling the hate in Long Island 97
- Israeli judge to issue verdict in Rachel Corrie case 94
- WaPo’s Walter Pincus says US is ‘going above and beyond … 87
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“would like to be a hero, but he will not be one at the expense of Israel's security.” Huh? What does that mean?
Could mean lots of things but probably more that if he needs to break a few eggs to make the omelette he will.
I'll support Beinart because his main thrust is to stop the settlements. The criticism over the rest of his Jewish elitism and his cognitive dissonance over I/P history may be justified but so what? There are simply too many wrongs to be righted and too few people willing to put their careers on the line.
He's in a privilaged position to make a difference and its very possible he may be bending his actual views for diplomacy's sake anyway.
Yes exactly Annie, with me its the latter - the expectation that the listener is going to think I'm either a nut or an anti-semite. I feel I have to verbally make a trip around the world from the US (media, Lobby, congress etc) all the way back to the settlements in order to make a single point.
Great post Beth. I think your comments are surprising less and less people.
I'm not buying any of this. If someone else was saying it I wouldn't even blink but no matter how hard I try and see this from NF's point of view it doesn't even remotely add up.
This guy has been the poster child for blowing the whistle on Israeli misdeeds for 30 odd years and I find it hard not to think this weird shift has something to do with the fact that there are several new kids on the block and that the spotlight may not be all his from here on.
The damage done by lending his name to any negativity toward BDS ("a little cult") and Walt & Mearsheimer's ground breaking paper is devastating and he could not possibly be unaware of that.
Once upon a time nothing out of his mouth was anything but honest, meticulously well-researched and to the point. His words here ring hollow and untrue.
Fantastic and truly uplifting essay Phil. Don't ever think your brand of honesty isn't appreciated.
Really Dex?
I thought having someone ranting on national TV that the IDF's main purpose was to grab land and dispossess innocent people was a little more significant than that. But then again I don't see your second point about a total right of return ever happening so I guess we're operating on different levels of expectation.
Unrelated - Was just reading MJ Rosenberg article at Huffpo about Peter Beinart's book and saw this pretty amazing clip from Israeli Big Brother:
link to eranvered.com
The rest of the article is here:
link to huffingtonpost.com
This was a landmark event on this issue and proves that there is PLENTY of knowledge out there even if there is an unwillingness to actually utter the words.
Even if Chris Hayes does a complete backflip on this issue next week it won't undo everything this achieved.
The parting message from Barghouti is key for me - that he is willing to accept a POLITICAL solution even if peace is not part of the deal.
Thanks Toivo
Dan, I'm not sure why you seem so aghast that this site might have a singularity of purpose - even if it isn't mentioned in any mission statement .Whatever Phil and Adams stated goals for Mondoweiss may be doesn't change anything I'm saying. I'm being guided by the contributions and the responses here only and whilst freeing the Palestinians is obviously not the ONLY topic discussed here I would think it's top of the tree in importance. I could have picked anything else because it's all related - Zionism, US pandering to the lobby, Israel's belief that it can survive indefinitely fighting endless wars and at the end of that chain, the Palestinians being the ultimate casualties of all this.
I see the purpose here at MW in weakening any of those links in the chain.
KMA, let me put it another way - if your having an intervention for an alcoholic friend, keep the discussion to booze, don't start bringing up OTHER shit they did!
You might have a right to bring up it up but it ain't gonna help and they may well LEAVE!
One of the main reasons Walt & Mearsheimer gained such prominence in an area where almost every other has failed was by almost surgically avoiding areas of discussion unrelated to the Israel Lobby's stranglehold of the US Congress. It wasn't cowardice it was purely an effort to gain as much ground as possible.
I wonder if Phil and Adam's new policies may be trying to beat a similar path. If so I have no problem with that.
If the ultimate goal of this site is to help free the Palestinians then I personally think detailed discussions of ME history is more counterproductive than anything else.
The chain starts with the US subserviance to the lobby. That at least stands a chance of changing - peoples awareness/outrage is increasing palpably. You can actually talk about this where you couldn't even 5 years ago. That is something that can be built upon.
As I say, it all depends on what this site is about - if it's a clubhouse for likeminded people to exchange ideas with no restriction then fine, but bringing up Jewish responsibility for the rise of the Nazi's is only going to polarize and narrow each discussion down to a handful of posters that take up the entire thread.
And I'm not knocking that, I'll always read it, I've learned a lot at this site but as Norman F said recently (possibly as a way of distancing himself from his alarming comments bashing of the BDS movement) maybe its time to start moving toward looking for a solution.
Thanks Pixel, I always let blurt once the party is over ;)
I sincerely hope he lives to regret saying all this because it's OBVIOUS he is boiling with resentment throughout this video. In particular, the superciliousness is unbearable.
His main point, about directing more energy toward enforcing the law is, taken all by itself not a bad one. But he spends 98 percent of this interview belittling a movement that is borne out of wanting to right wrongs and he knows damn well the limitations and fragility of a movement like BDS. Suddenly he's willing to give ISRAEL the benefit of the doubt while holding a youthful movement to unreasonably high standards.
This is pure Dershowitz!
He's ends up shitting all over BDS the same way one could EASILY shit on the Occupy movement - young, idealistic, misdirected youths with a bit of knowledge and too much time on their hands right?
One bombastic overreaction (I hope) certainly doesn't undo 30 years of fighting the good fight but this was depressing as hell nonetheless.
I think these are helpful policies moving forward.
I understand a lot of commenters have problems with where Adam and Phil will draw the line but I think it's reasonable to expect they can decipher if the general thrust of someones post is heading in one of the areas of concern.
The endless pissing contests centering on historical knowledge that take up entire threads here are a real turn-off and frustratingly pointless. For me the history of this topic gets increasingly irrelevant the further back you go.
I personally wish the discussion would center on 2012, the paralysis of the US congress in the face of the lobby and the endless wars and threats of wars in the middle east that appear to benefit nobody but Israel.
Biggest threat to Israel is Israel.
If they just for example, stopped the settlement building right where it stands - even keeping the stolen land, I reckon there would be tearful gushing plaudits all round, not to mention instantaneous US backed military pulverizing of any Arab ungratefulness.
As unfair to the Palestinians as it would still be I seriously think even they would take it over the status quo - it would set middle-east relations on a course it has not EVER really been on before.
An actual positive after an eternal negative.
That's the advantage of being a conceited bully, everyone falls over themselves with praise the second you show a glimpse of compassion.
Israel may have half a century of unrelenting bastardry (is that a word?) to cash in on.
Love this line...
"Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection"
Is everyone here going soft in the head?
That was "war with Iran as a favor to Israel"
That's not significant enough for you all?
On effin mainstream TV yet?
Who cares about the line at the end, the first bit is the naughty bit
That's not even baby steps - I mark it down as progress.
Jerome, it's an outright cop out to dismiss the commenters here when they accumulate completely organically. This is a blog, its not an organization.
I assume ANYONE who runs a site like Phil's will attract roughly the same breakdown of serious commenters, opinionated laypeople and prejudiced trolls and hangers-on.
You are also dismissing the only candidate to openly opposes pre-emptive war and the total non-accountability of Wall Street at the precise moment that candidate is gaining serious traction.
I'm not sure what you expected.
I agree with Richard here, at least to the extent that the path to peace may not be a straight one.
For sure, Ben Ami's position in this exchange is littered with what most people at this site would probably agree are deal-breakers to any just solution - but I saw Ben Ami debate Dershowitz on Shalom TV recently and he argued the Palestinian position hard and long for over an hour and eventually had The Dersh' foaming at the mouth and reaching for his usual bloody maps.
I think you have to use a different set of criteria when judging public figures in the face of the zionist omnipresence.
I can't stand the cowardice, hypocrisy and backpedalling displayed by the likes of (popping to mind recently) Obama, Friedman and Goldstone - but surely that only serves to underline how incredibly fucking scary the lobby can be to those who dare to take it on.
I don't think any public figure who's ever uttered a negative word about Israel or the lobby has done so by accident - and if that's true there are a hell of a lot of people fighting this out there.
"peaceful settler" is an oxymoron and "non-violent Palestinian human rights" means, I guess Palestinians who keep their bitching to themselves and wait till the bulldozers arrive?
Hitchens' positions on almost everything smacked more of having a personal axe to grind than any wish to right wrongs. He may have lambasted Israels bahavior but he bashed Islam far more severely and for a lot longer - and that's where he loses me.
I'm not sure what his stance on the British Empire's colonization of half the globe was but I bet he would have supported that -just a guess, maybe someone can tell me different.
Obama probably has visions of Dallas in 63 when he thinks about visiting Israel.
It really is incredible when you consider he's hated because he can only manage 99 percent unconditional support.
"The relations between Israel and the US are very, very deep and in fact getting better all the time."
A kidnapper and his hostage have a very deep relationship too eee but it ain't based on shared values.
"You guys are too pure. She’s willing to support a one state solution, but she’s not perfect. Who is? If every Israeli thought like her the conflict would be over."
Agreed totally. She also said
"Q. At times the Jewish state will be in conflict with human rights.
A. Then I am for human rights. Human rights trumps everything. We are for human beings."
You are not going to get better than that!
"Witty must wake up every morning, and as he lifts his head from his keyboard, the first thing that comes to his mind is how to convince the Palestiniasn to kiss the ass of their tormentors."
I'm picturing QWERTY spelled backwards across his forehead
I don't know about cowardice. Not doing the right thing to avoid a minor setback is one thing. Fear of a lobby that finished Helen Thomas career in a pico-second is another.
"the fact that they spend any time at all and the time spent is deliberately fair and undoctored by IDF propaganda means something, and shouldn’t be overlooked."
I'll drink to that. It's too easy to sling mud on this issue - anyone in the public eye who sticks their neck out on this issue - even if they do a backflip ten seconds later - is still doing more than me and is risking plenty.
"Wha-? Jon Stewart doesn’t have a point, he’s a fluffy Democratic Party-apologist. He’s funny, but certainly no moral authority"
No I'd say he's a presenter who is brilliant, funny, witty, and as well informed as anyone else on TV.
But he is, like Maddow, Olbermann etc - P.E.P.
"I still retain the question for Phil, Adam, others, of what they propose as an alternative, effective approach to respond to rocket launchers."
I'll answer - get out of the occupied territories. Dismantle the settlements - COMPROMISE!
I would support Israel ABSOLUTELY if it would take action on this one issue. This wouldn't appease the Palestinians of course but it would be the first REAL attempt to show that Israel does not have a hidden agenda to grab the lot.
You're right LFE but even people as boned up on world events as Rachel Maddow still more or less buy into the whole Zionist narrative regarding the occupation.
Recently even Jon Stewart adopts Bill Maher type stances in interviews on this stuff.
"It is only the West Bank Palestinians that live under military rule.
And, Israeli Arabs/Palestinians do have the right to vote (not 3/5 of a vote), to speech, press, petition, peaceably assemble, equal access to the courts, employment (with prejudices certainly).
The distinction between within Israel and the West Bank and Gaza, is a critical one, a clarifying one, that lends itself to actual reform because it is clear."
In practice none of this means jack-shit to arabs in the west bank being made to watch their homes being bulldozed, or to arabs in Gaza who don't have access to the basic necessities of living.
None of what you point out applies in any meaningful way in the real world.
Richard all of your provisos to BDS add up to NOTHING CHANGES. For the Palestinians to get ANYTHING they want from here it's going to be messy, complicated and painful for everyone concerned. More importantly it's going to be uncharted territory (Just ask the folks on the Marvi Mamara).
You want every possible eventuality figured out and pre-addressed and it's NEVER going to work like that.
There have to be some leaps of faith made. You have talked a lot on here but as far as I can recall you have given your blessing to precisely NOTHING that would advance the cause of the Palestinians.
I wouldn't put you in the same boat as the Foxman's and Dershowitzes but EFFECTIVELY you are.
I long ago accepted that a certain amount of lying and a massive amount of hypocrisy is standard operational procedure in Washington - on any issue.
The neocons will make sure Beinart now walks the streets with a virtual neon sign flashing whatever career-ending message they deem appropriate on his forehead.
This is a huge step toward righting wrongs and takes a lot of guts.
To me, public figures who make even the slightest misstep in stating their support for the settlements (and it's worth noting that Hillary and Obama both have) are against them in the long run.
Baby steps folks.
The Israel lobby has woven a freakin persian' rug out of such lint.
Congratulations Phil and thanks for again putting your head above the trench. It takes courage and I for one appreciate it.
Phil, I think you undermine the aims of your site when you post something like this. It's a funny and ironic picture to show someone in private but it just creates a mob mentality on here.
Couldn't agree more seafoid. My wishes that religious dogma would vanish won't happen any time soon but oh boy could this site do with a little more "we're basically all the same" sentiment.
"What we see in Israel is a distortion of Judaism and an attempt by the Israeli State to insist that Israel professes Jewish values as well as moral superiority (note the oxymoron “moral army”)."
Speaking of oxymorons Herb Keinon of the J-Post suggests Israel rejects the idea of "conflict resolution" in favor of what he calls "conflict management"! Because peace is clearly not possible with the Arabs and because Obama, though well intentioned simply doesn't get this.
In trying to google a video of this I quickly I got hits dating back to the early 00's.
BTW that was in response to Gellian, not Lareinblanche
Get over yourself will ya? IQ measures how "full" your tank, not how "big". Convincing people the earth isn't flat didn't take this long!
The public has swallowed a baseless war on Iraq and an equally inane proposed war with Iran so I can't see any reaction to this no matter how spectacular the revelations.
It's not even that the msm has to be bury stuff like this on page 4, it only has to be the second biggest story on page one and no-one will care or probably even understand.
The counter to any belief that the lobby has an inordinate amount of power is either that it's extremely complicated (as in this piece) or that it's based on an irrational hatred of Jews (a la the Dersh).
I'm not certain that you're wrong, but there are other arguments far more compelling.
Sort of unrelated but terms like "Uber-weasels" are not helpful even if they are deserved. If EVERY president of the US has failed MISERABLY to take on the Israel lobby what chance do their subordinates have in doing the same?
A coward is someone who won't do the right thing because of ANY blowback they receive. But the fear politicians and ALL public figures sense in this regard is as real as it is absolute.
Helen Thomas and Rick Sanchez are just the latest victims.
I'd even include "crazy" Mel Gibson in that too.
"Vicarious survivors of the holocaust"
Normally I wouldn't even attempt to try to measure degrees of suffering but it suddenly occurred to me that however much anyone suffers from the memory of the holocaust I doubt if they were offered a choice between that and the individual suffering EVERYBODY is capable of feeling over losing a loved one or say, watching a parent disappear through alzheimers, they would take the latter.
Dershowitz is, to those who believe Israel must exist right or wrong just another soldier and he will bleat on and twist facts and obfuscate till long after anyone on this board can be bothered documenting it.
He asks himself "what works?" way before he worries about "am I right?".
So in a sense criticizing him is pointless.
It's what dictates his behavior that should be recognized. However many eggs have to be cracked to make that omelette will be duly cracked.
A bloody omelette!
Maybe that could be Mondoweiss new logo?
The continued expansionist agenda of Israel is creating so much bad blood in the ME and the US and, I would imagine so much self-loathing by the hundreds of US politicians who have caved in to pressure from the lobby by being either bought off or threatened that its hard to see how Israel can ever become a done-deal.
The immovable object is Israel. Whether or not there is an irresistable force on its way to collide with it...
This was supposed to be in response to the video, not RW above
Great analogy.
The I/P nightmare is simple to explain unless you are the guilty party.
Life is ALWAYS complicated when you're the guilty party.
For anyone who watches "House" they do the theme song for that also.
"With great pain we uprooted families from their home in order to create an opportunity for peace. Sadly, we received terror in return. And yet we have not stopped hoping that the Palestinians will make their choice for peace."
I experienced the same thing recently - I kicked my neighbor squarely in the nuts and sadly, received a tirade of abuse in return.
oops
Compelling account of Israeli attack on Rachel Corrie here:
link to news.bbc.co.uk
Regime change imposed upon Israel by the US!! How delicious would that irony be?
Well, speaking of Witty, and Yonira, Rachel, eee, Julian etc etc - where the fuck are you all today??????
Well that was enjoyable - fifty minutes of Meshaal in dim lighting having his words translated in heavily broken English and placed just barely above Meshaals in volume.
They couldn't be trying to make this as unpleasant as possible to watch could they? I'm interested as hell in this and I turned off after ten minutes.
But I saw enough of Charlie's "how can we trust you?" narrative to get the gist.
RW, contradicting is NOT dissent. And analyzing is usually more credible when you don't move the goalposts where you would prefer them before you do your analyzing. You take the micro view when the macro view is clearly more relevant. And vice verca, on and on. Anybody can do this!!
In the same way that you don't need to blow up every brick in a building to bring it down, people need to understand that the Israel Lobby doesn't have to control EVERYTHING or everybody in order to fulfil its objectives. This vote is just further proof that where US middle east foreign policy is concerned, the lobby is in control - utterly! When 99 percent of the house of reps votes this way it becomes way too simple to call them cowards.
And the Stranglers
Glad you cleared that up Zam. Let the genocide continue!
“We might be bad, but without us you’d all be soap and lampshades!”
LOL!!! I bet there's a few Israeli generals who would LOVE to have that quote on their headstones!
But I agree about the abusive spouse bit. I also think there's a degree of "looking the other way" while the "tough Jews" go out and do whatever they gotta do to make that homeland a done deal.
And that's also where the denial kicks in because, as Joel Kovel points out in "Overcoming Zionism" Israel is all alone in the middle east surrounded by hatred on all sides, propped up by american bucks and spilled blood, with an increasingly suspicious US population slowly awakening from its 60 year slumber.
Because of this Israel is only going to get one shot at becoming a country in its own right and the second the momentum slows toward that end, it's really all over.
This doesn't justify anything the lobby does obviously but it's my way of understanding the unwavering zealotry and the SPECTACULAR denial (examples would be superfluous) surrounding this topic.
And it IS important to understand it because as VR pointed out the other day (I think it was VR) we are all the same underneath and I think that fact gets lost on this site sometimes.
Yonira, your presence is simply confirmation that Phil is fighting the good fight.
Keep it up stupid!
RW, this isn't particularly relevant here but I just had to comment that the capacity you have to keep firing back on this site - for YEARS - convincing absolutely NOBODY of ANYTHING is simply breathtaking.
Whether you realize it or not, you are enslaven to an ideology.
You obviously have intelligence and knowledge yet you seem to push the plight of the Palestinians to the same place I push the plight of say, battery chickens.
Triple E, if hundreds of people told me I was defending the indefensible, I'd start to question my beliefs - or at least question whether I was on the right blog.
Walked into that one eh Rachel?
Richard, if the existence of Israel means the destruction of another people, the total compromise of the US congress and the complete endangerment of the rest of the free world from a global conflict resulting from its neverending push for regime change in every country that surrounds it - then why should ANYBODY support it's existence?
Yet despite this I'll bet If Israel was to make an ATTEMPT at some concession re the Palestinians, I'm guessing most posters here would probably forgive (almost) everything that has transpired so far.
You can't keep basing your actions NOW on what happened in the past. The need for a safe haven for Jews is an ANACHRONISM. The world has moved on - 40 odd years ago blacks were still being sent to back of the bus and Australia still had a "White Australia policy".
Israel may have been a necessity once (though I seriously doubt it) but now it is simply a DESIRE.
Some Brooklyn Dodgers fans still DESIRE that their beloved "Bums" would return to Brooklyn and guess what, it ain't happening because it doesn't mean SHIT to anyone but them!
Is Gaza last February (1400 massacred) and the Lebanon war before that not "present" enough for you?
You have a massive blind spot.
It's a beautiful dream and it may not be so far away. Like Phil I have a lot of faith in youth. Israel is having trouble getting itself populated and the militant and desperate Zionist elders are mostly middle-aged to old men. When I look at how the youth of the sixties rejected EVERYTHING their parents stood for in a single generation because the choices facing them were so stark I can see such a transformation coming within the orthodox Jewish community. Secular Jews everywhere are waking up to what's being done in their name and a LOT is changing fast. Look at the disconnect Phil has with his own family and I have read many stories by contributors here that are similar.
To sign this letter makes it harder to take action contradictory to its sentiments, but hardly impossible. Hypocrisy is virtually part of of US politicians mandate.
This kind of suicidal arrogance coupled with the distinct possibility that the next generation of Jews see Netanyahu's vision as a total anachronism makes we wonder if this problem might not, to an extent, simply work itself out on its own.
Generations can change quickly and it seems that kids who drift from strict religious upbringing usually drift FAR from it.
Richard, you're pointing out that if somebody is being gagged in the school publication, he still has the freedom to start his own paper and should stop whining?
Just because this is a "fact" doesn't stop it from being completely unreasonable and a garbage point - unless you're only reason for posting it is to AGGRAVATE!
It's your childish shifting of the goalposts to suit whatever position you want that causes the aggravation on this site and you know it.
More symptoms.
The Israel lobby may be the bull in the china shop of world politics but if the general public has no idea what's going on by now (I didn't myself till about 5 years ago) then stories about the political duplicity of news reporters aint going to register a blip on the conciousness of the American public.
The 3 billion is the fuel that keeps this 18 wheeler hurtling out of control down the freeway and I say cut it the fuck off!
RW, christian fundamentalists who blow up abortion clinics make more sense than you do. At least one can understand they believe they are saving more lives than they extinguish through their activities.
Regarding the I/P if you substitute "Palestinians" for "cattle" everything you say makes SOME sense (although you would probably still have the folks from PETA on your ass).
Let me ask you this - do you think people blow themselves up in crowded restaurants simply because of indoctrination or do you think it might be the most desperate, symbolic act imaginable from a desperate, desperate people that have NOWHERE LEFT TO TURN??
This is about ZEALOTRY!
The USA should be the focus because the U.S. facilitates all of this.
I don't think endlessly listing the transgressions of the Israelis against the Palestinians is going to sway public opinion enough for real change.
The Israel firsters have their holy grail and as long militant frontliners are willing commit whatever violence is necessary while their more pacifist brethren stateside are willing to turn a blind eye, I don't see this changing.
The "special relationship" is to an extent, pushing the world global conflict.
The neo-cons and all of their minions should be the ones getting hounded day and night on this site. They are the source. They compromise our government and every area of public life from middle management upwards. They facilitate the funding. They maintain the cryptonite effect of the anti-semite smear which stops ANY discussion in it's tracks.
They are the ones causing our president to choke up like an embarrassed teen at the prom when a student asks him a simple question about Palestine.
I agree with Richard Parker.
I see positives everywhere in his reply - the main one being that 'Palestinians grievances have to be recognized'.
People far further down the food chain than BAM wouldn't go within a bulls roar of that.
And if the cryptonite effect of the lobby is as real as everyone on this board believes (as I do) then what more could the first black president speaking publicly (especially in a state with the huge Jewish constituency South Florida does) possibly say?
Baby steps folks, baby steps.
If the majority of the people on this board believe that congress is "Israeli occupied territory" regarding US foreign policy then it seems extremely possible to me that Obama may not be ABLE to do any more than he has done re the I/P conflict.
You are all assuming that as president, and as long he has the will, he can rubber stamp anything and everything else will follow.
Like many others I suspect Obama may be nothing more than a great orator but is it really that inconceivable that he is being stopped at gun-point, so to speak, over any action which goes against the grain of the Zionist presence?
One aspect of Richards post here (if I am reading him correctly) is actually worth considering - if doing what is "right" is only going to cause more division and bloodshed, it might actually be worth considering swallowing your outrage and seeking other alternatives.
But Richard, you lose me beyond that because YOU are so obviously a part of the problem being faced by anyone who tries to confront the I/P problem.
Carnas, the need for a safe-haven is an anachronism. You don't NEED a homeland, you WANT and feel ENTITLED to one.
The score in the recent Gaza war was 1400 to 3 - do you seriously think this was justified or that some greater good will come from these kinds of atrocities?
The Israel-firsters control foreign policy in the middle east already.
Utterly.
I doubt they either need or have the manpower to do anything more than INFLUENCE (albeit heavily) the rest of the US Goverment. To think they do starts buying into the whole "they want to take over the world" crap.
This stuff is truly dizzying. But I'm actually beginning to find the pro Israeli position slightly LESS infuriating than the complete inability of the U.S. to do ANYTHING to stop it.