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The War of Ideas in the Middle East
See, Mooser, Israel has now totally solved this problem, proving that in the right environment, Jews can be ignorant thugs as well as any other peoples.
You don't think so? When every day you have to choose between Jewish supremacy and the violations of human rights committed by the Israel state?
Which card would you choose, hophmi - your Jewish card or your human card?
eee, if you'd taken that logic course you'd be able to recognize your own self-contradictions.
If American Jews are predominately conservative and reform, while Israelis are not, how can they be one people, given that Jewishness is defined by religion.
Michael W - I don't believe we can save the Palestinians. It's too late, it has already gone too far. I'm convinced that it's futile to try to change Israeli ways. They are rapidly changing for the worse. By every indication, the evil there is growing daily, and they reject any attempts at intervention.
You can only save people who want to be saved. Israel doesn't want to be saved. The sane and the moral among the population will not suffer destruction. They will leave it to the fanatics. The fanatics will recreate the state in their own hideous image, telling themselves they are following the word of god.
What the rest of us need to do is ensure that they don't drag the rest of the world down with them.
eee is right in a way. The future of Palestine is in the hands of Israeli Jews. The rest of us should recognize this, stand back and let the fanatics complete the process of their own self-destruction.
Our cause should be the protection of other peoples from their violence during the disintegration.
Actually, eee, it is the establishment of Israel that is dividing the Jewish people. There are Israelis and there are Jews, and the two groups are pulling apart like a split ice floe in the ocean. The more racist Israel becomes, the more Jews elsewhere will draw back in revulsion.
Eventually they will come to realize the nature of the catastrophe - that monsters have taken over the ancient holy center of Judaism, dividing them from it even more t han they were ever divided by Ottoman rule.
There are too many comments to read them all, but I hope someone pointed out the bias in the article: aimed at stopping rocket attacks and weapons smuggling.
Then Weiner should educate them about Israel's sins. This is called leadership.
I would like to see the members of the US Congress come home from a session of attacking peace and justice to find their own homes in rubble, their own children crying, their own pets shot.
It's easy to maintain indifference from a position of impunity.
Faced with the alternative between a just state and a Jewish state, there is only one choice. Let those who want a Jewish state take on the burden of making it just.
Convenient, isn't it!
The idiots in the Israeli press took this to mean the resolution was passed unanimously.
This is excellent. This is what J Street should have been and failed to be. You have my support.
It wasn't the Jews who were thrown to the lions in the Colosseum, hophmi, it was the Christians. Christians are so in love with their own persecution that they invented martyrology.
If history proves anything, it's that there is no religion that won't persecute any others as soon as they attain a position of power over them. Israel today is a perfect example.
This isn't what one would expect from Gadhafi.
After Turkey sent help to Israel it was assumed that there would finally be reconciliation, with an apology and compensation paid to the victims. But Israeli propaganda did its work too well. There was a vast outcry protesting the idea of apologizing to "terrorists" and nothing more has been heard of the idea.
Another nail in the coffin.
Bronner doesn't think the "brief raids" by armed troops counts as "violence." Israel is never violent. Israel only defends itself.
I have one word for you: Saban.
There's a name for this phenomenon: "I've Got Mine, Jack."
Jewish commitment to rights has always been tied to Jewish persecution. With persecution only now a fading memory, interest in universal rights also fades, replaced by commitment to privilege and exclusivity.
Wasn't it Helen Thomas who directly confronted President Weasel about Israel's nukes?
Right.
And the US also raises the point that the house demolitions are "unhelpful."
Holstun, it's perfectly clear that "Moscowitz" is not meant to refer to ALL Jews but those right-wing billionaires who fund West Bank settlements and do as much to subvert the Israeli government as the do the government of the US.
The US government, every branch of it, simply is incapable of shame.
Congress just amply demonstrated this fact by passing the latest AIPAC resolution against a Palestinian state. The State Dept has no shame. The presidency has no shame. They are owned 100% by monied interests and don't really care that anyone knows this, because they know there is nothing that we can do.
You can slap the word HYPOCRISY across their faces, and they don't even know what it means.
I see no evidence that the blog administrators here are feeling any need for responsiveness when it comes to their moderation policy.
It definitely dampens one's eagerness to offer support.
Zionism will lynch Jews who manifest disloyalty, like Richard Goldstone.
"Hath not Goldstone Jewish eyes?"
Maybe the Palestinians will finally be allowed to run their own tech companies and the workers can be employed there. Just like Palestinian construction workers can finally be employed building Palestinian homes instead of Jewish settlements.
That would be a lot better, wouldn't it, hophmi?
hophmi, your tactics are transparent. If you were really concerned about human rights violations in Saudi and Yemen, you'd hie yourself over to the Bash Arabs site and complain there. But no, your purpose is merely deflection.
I hope that the next time muggers attack you and break your nose, the judge dismisses the case against them on the grounds that some other muggers cracked open another guy's head.
That's just hophmi, grasping at antisemitic straws cause it's all he got
If we could figure out how to use that profile thing, we could check.
eee, it's about that Logic class . . .
What is Cisco doing to tear down the wall?
This is just another capitalist ploy to get cheap labor from a captive population of serfs. It's the Likud plan to turn the WB into a maqiladora behind prison walls.
Dialog works quite well. The committment to dialog to the exclusion of action effectively keeps progress from being made.
The religion of the Israelis has nothing to do with this call for a boycott. It has everything to do with Israeli actions.
hophmi is only trying the tired old ploy of identifying the BDS movement with antisemitism.
As do I. But Goldberg isn't likely to approve some other method more effective in undermining the Israeli state, which the Isreali state is doing quite well by itself anyway, without outside help.
Goldberg needs to be reminded of the very effective Jewish boycott campaign against Nazi Germany. That is by far the closer precedent.
And yes, it was an attempt to undermine the Nazi German state. Who has a problem with that?
Or maybe a Polish Museum of Tolerance?
For too many people, the name "Simon Wiesenthal" means a saint, any project bearing his name can do no wrong, and any criticism of him amounts to sacrilege.
Of course, the center takes full advantage of this.
jon s - the contradiction is not between "Jewish" and "democratic" but between "Jewish state" and "democratic state."
And individual can be both Jewish and committed to democracy, but a state that defines itself as privileging one ethnic or religious group is by definition discriminating against any others.
Sweden is Swedish not because it privileges ethnic Swedes but because it declares that any citizen of Sweden is thereby Swedish. It extends Swedishness to all members of the state. Israel does the opposite when it explicitly refuses to become "a state of all its citizens" and discriminates between Jews and non-Jews. No democratic state can do this.
As for the historic ties of Jews to Palestine, Zionism has overlooked the fact that the Palestinians are the true descendants of the ancient Judeans, those who remained in the homeland while others scattered across the world. Their history in this land is of far longer duration than the Israelite kingdoms ever were, and it lasted until they were evicted by Zionist Europeans, playing the role of Babylon and Rome.
The Palestinians single out Israel because they are Israel's victims. It is the Palestinians who have called for the boycott, and people who value justice have answered their call.
What other human-rights victims have been calling for a boycott of their oppressors? Who has spurned such a call?
The work of the boycott of Israel can be seen in this: today, whenever performers travel to Israel, voices are raised to call Shame.
Steps so small that by the time you reach your destination, it has long since been blown away by malice, indifference and time.
Which is the intention of those with the hobbles.
eee, you asked for options to dialog. That means, something else besides dialog.
How about - when the IDF comes to campus, join the Palestinian group in protest.
Where are the Palestinian lands in Brooklyn?
Perhaps the Palestinian student groups might be more receptive to invitations from Jewish groups to join them in actions, rather than futile dialogue.
So now eee is claiming to read minds! The word "disarmed" is nowhere in Phil's post.
Israel should lead by example by signing the NPT and adhering to NPT resolutions instead of claiming exceptionalism.
What hypocrisy! Israel is one of the chief suppliers of arms to non-Muslim African states, arming the conflicts.
link to upi.com
Naturally, they frame this activity as "fighting jihadism" just as, 50 years ago, the US excuse for promoting worldwide armed conflict was "fighting communism."
I'll probably prod Amnesty again about his case, which is about the most effective thing I can think of. Not our worthless government, for sure.
So put it BELOW the Recent Comments, then.
OK, but it should certainly be somewhere on the home page, maybe just above the Recent Comments, where it is on every other page but the FP. It makes no sense to have Recent Comments take precedence over Recent Posts.
In fact, you can't scan the recent articles so easily from the FP, as a less recent article is usually parked at the top and articles are not placed there in order of posted time. I have often missed a new article entirely, as it was way down the page, and it's quite frustrating.
Yes! That's better.
Now, how about the Recent Posts list? This should really be at the top of the right sidebar on the home page, but it's not there at all from the home.
hophmi, if people were singling out someone's posts for criticism based on ideological preference, you would be one of the most likely targets. But no, you and your fellow Zionist tools are tolerated here and perfectly free to illustrate the vileness of your beliefs and the weakness of your reasoning as much as you wish.
It worked better when it was on the right side.
One site improvement would be for the Recent Posts list to be viewable on the home page.
Most sites like this have links that will add the html code for the user, thus eliminating many errors.
According to your explanation, if suspending the rules requires a 2/3 vote to pass the resolution, and there was no roll call vote, there was no 2/3 vote. Does this not mean that the resolution didn't pass?
I would LOVE to see Israel's war criminals in the dock at the Hague!
Right next to their good buddy Darth Cheney!
Talks foundered because BYahoo refuses to draw limits on Israel's infinite expansion.
That's the entire idea.
If you look at the procedings you see that most issues are dealt with by suspending the rules.
Here, at least, we can see the cosponsor roll of shame:
The stinking cowards wouldn't even do a roll call to record their votes for their constituents and posterity to condemn.
US letters of assurance to Israel are entirely irrelevant to Palestinian rights and should certainly be taken into no account at all.
The division among the Palestinians is the successful consequence of USraeli machinations, beginning with the overthrow of the elected Palestinian parliament. The Palestinians threw out the corrupt quisling party Fatah, but USrael reimposed it on them by force. The Palestinian armed forces supposedly "loyal to Abbas" are in fact US-paid mercenaries who have no real loyalties to any Palestinian party.
And nothing but a lump of coal under the Presidential tree.
And perhaps other people have their good reasons to be cautious of Israelis in tennis togs. When a country goes around the world assassinating right and left, it is no wonder it makes enemies.
So now honest hotel workers have to suffer because international criminals choose to patronise their place of employment.
Wrong again, Jonah. Jews can enter SA and even live there under some circumstances. Of course no one ever considered the Saudis to be great advocates of human rights.
But not even the Saudis would make such a demand in the US, thus demonstrating how much more bigoted Israelis are.
Maybe they should start. How do they otherwise know that Jewish employees aren't working for the Mossad as assassins?
The next time a Saudi delegation comes to town and demands that no Jewish employees be allowed on its floor, eee will of course understand how there is no prejudice involved.
If hotels are subjected to lawsuits for this kind of discrimination, they will become reluctant to take Israeli guests. Pariah state, closer every day.
On and on doesn't mean squat. What counts is her vote. It just makes her even more of a hypocrite and a coward.
Shame on Lee as an African American supporting a Jim Crow state.
Strong words from Rosenberg.
Let me add - if you post this on Orange, add a poll.
The commoners at Daily Kos are overwhelmingly anti-occupation, but the admins and the Zionist thought police have them intimidated so few dare comment in the I/P threads. But the polls are anonymous.
They've raised the goal now to 10,000 sigs, and it's already in the high 6000s.
It's useless for me to contact my Congresscum, though.
I suppose it would be useful for someone to post this on -ick- Orange.
Bumblebye - it was 3/4 trillion in $100 dollar bills. It cost $120 million to print these. Essentially, the new design was so complicated with "security" features the presses couldn't process it.
You make one vital point, that African-Americans largely don't understand how their elected representatives are supporting a racist, Jim Crow state. They urgently need to know what AIPAC is and how it is corrupting the representatives they send to Congress. If there is any solidarity among people of color, it should begin here.
If hophmi can't grasp why Jews might feel consternation at the thought of an alliance with Nazis, he's even thicker than I thought.
I just saw the photo of that flag and would love for it to be displayed on the front pages of news outlets in every US city. I think a LOT of people would find it as offensive as you do.
"Dual loyalty?" Who, us?
eee, when you began your philosophical studies, you should have started with Logic 101. Your deficiency is painfully evident. Statements have implications.
First, when you say that "Jews in Israel are certainly willing to fight," what this implies is that they are willing to kill. It is not your own dead body that you envision, but the dead bodies of the Arabs you are prepared to kill in order to prevent "a one state solution."
Now what is this "one state solution" you find so appalling that you are willing to sacrifice lives to oppose? It is the idea of a democratic state with equal rights for all, regardless of ethnic background. And what is so appalling about such a state? That non-Jews will have rights equal to Jews and that Jews will not constitute a democratic majority. In short, that it will destroy Jewish supremacy.
It really only remains to inquire how many lives you are willing to spend in order to uphold Jewish supremacy, for it is clear from your own statements that this is indeed what you are committed to.
I suggest that in addition to logic, you might consider a course in elementary ethics and leave epistemology for the upperclassmen who are prepared for such advanced study.
The US wasn't entitled to attack Afghanistan.
But eee is actually correct, there is no middle ground here. Israel is a criminal state waging aggressive war on a population it is mandated to protect as occupying power. The only party with a right to self-defense are the Gazans.
An excellent reminder, thanks.
Neither - Israel wants the whole thing.
First time I've seen that photo of the desecrated flag. This used to be illegal.
I'd like to get a better picture of it to use when Zionists carp about "dual loyalty" charges.
Comment reported for threadjacking, not that this ever does any good around here.
This is a damn shame, and it's obvious that the usual pressure was applied. The film was promoted on the cover of VOGUE, for god's sake!
BYahoo's coalition is also fracturing along the predictable internal stress lines. He can't postpone all the votes on all the issues indefinitely. At some point, he'll have to take stands on these issues, and then it all comes tumbling.
How is it in America's interests to spend decades promoting injustice and bloodshed? But WJ is only interested when some of the blood shed might belong to Jews.
"not an election campaign strategy"
^
effective
If the Palestinians were free to make choices, then why doesn't Israel allow them the freedom to exercise their choice to return to their homeland?
If Israel really wanted to negotiate in good faith it could have started by dealing with the actual government elected by the Palestinians instead of overthrowing it by force. But first it has to withdraw from the occupied territories for there to be a state to negotiate with.
I wonder how many native Australians would have been displaced to make that happen? "White Australia" is just as white if it includes Jews.
Halacha says different, eee. You obviously don't know what you're talking about, as I always suspected.
Rabbis have ruled that kids brought up orthodox from the moment of the bris, with a Jewish father and a mother who converted, aren't Jewish because the mother's conversion wasn't orthodox enough.
Merkel is a sucker, and German reparations to Israel are a con game. Most of that money doesn't make it to the actual victims.
The Arab governments had no reason to expel their Jewish citizens until the Zionists drove the Palestinians across their borders, so they were indeed to blame.
If your family wants to sue for the return of its Tunisian property, justice would support them.
As for your kibbutz, it may or may not have purchased its land legally in 1939, but most kibbutzim took advantage of the Naqba to steal the property of their Arab neighbors in 1948.
If your kibbutz can be shown to have legal title to its property, then justice would require Palestine to honor this claim and allow the title to stand.
"The Jews" had the option of not founding the state of Israel, and it was the only just option.
eee, lacking the virtue of consistency, says that Phil's kids can't be Jews because they don't have a Jewish mother, even if they are brought up to practice the Jewish religion.
But Albright, with her Jewish mother, can't be Jew either, because she doesn't practice the Jewish religion.
I vote for the vile racist explanation, myself.
eee, I don't expect you to be able to grasp the distinction, but the children of thieves are not culpable, they are victims of their parents' crimes when the stolen property is reclaimed for its rightful owners.
When you see your children crying because they have been evicted from the home they thought was their own, you can have the consolation that it was the fault of their parents.
Michael W - so withdraw already.
It's terrible for the children, who are certainly innocent, regardless of the guilt of their parents. But this is what people should consider when they decide to steal from others, that the payback may not end with themselves.
Annie, one reason given by Madoff for his suicide was the impending clawback suit against his children.
You forget that, just like Palestinian land in the hands of Israeli Jews, Mark Madoff and his children are in possession of money stolen from other people, often their life savings, without which they are destitute. The clawback suits are the legal attempt to get back just a fraction of the stolen sums to restore them to the persons defrauded. This is justice.
Would you rather have pensioners living on catfood because you're too softhearted to take stolen property from the heirs of the thieves? No one is proposing to indict the grandchildren or charge them with crimes. But thieves don't get to keep the money they stole, and they don't get to pass it on to their heirs.
Let's keep straight in our minds who the real victims are.