I love Krugman (Robert Reich also), why fault him for not engaging in the IP issue? Many other important journalists avoid it as well, particularly those not pushing the Likud line. His commentary has significantly informed the public political
discourse, and especially by inference our foreign policy. If you wish to engage those who espouse a liberal agenda on thier IP views I suggest starting with Alan Grayson, Russell Feingold, Bruce Fein.
Simon previously did a segment on IDF commandeering a Palestinian home.
Oren likely was aware of this and predisposed to take the offensive. I applaud
60 minutes, Bob Simon and Jeff Fager for this show. The fallout will be fascinating.
dimadok,
"47% of Jewish Israelis are descendants from the refugees of Magreeb,
Iran and Irag"
Would appreciate substantive data regarding this assertion. Please cite.
Known as "the Mafia Mentality" Is there an alternative to "give me what
I want or I'll kill you, or your family. or etc" ? Not much different from
the "Samson option", either we achieve a "greater Israel" or we will visit
a nuclear "holocaust" on you. See Martin Van Creveld re: deployment of
Israeli subs armed with nuclear tipped missiles.
Abbas has no legitimacy legal or otherwise, and has been hopelessly compromised by Israel. Do you suspect his U.N. move might result in
obviating the right of return?
I attempted to log on to FP to basically support Walts views but was denied
access. Perhaps I'm paranoid but I wonder if any of you may have encountered similar denial?
Perry went to Israel to receive a "Defender of Jerusalem Award" or
some such. 81 congress people were "enticed" to accept an all expense
paid trip to Israel, mostly "tea party" newly elected members. Aside from
what appears to be a blatant violation of congressional ethics, the common
theme seems to be that they are all, or vulnerable to Evangelical persuasion.
More likely to support (financially and otherwise) the inane proposition
that G-D gave Palestine to the "Jews"
Senator Hillary Clinton publicly called for the American Embassy to be
moved from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. Might give you some insight as to her mindset regarding Israel.
If the border were opened, that would obviate the necessity
for another flotilla. It appears that US/Israel interests are
to challenge the legitimacy of the international effort
to break the siege of Gaza. It’s frightening to contemplate
what they have in mind. Now that the Palestinians have
been designated the new “Wretched of the Earth”
we are left with the horrifying prospect of wholesale slaughter
of nonviolent demonstrators.
Israel/US has brought enormous pressure to prevent another Mavi Marmari episode.
Agree with Rutherford's comments above, doesn't this bring to the fore
the issue of foreign influence in domestic politics?
Correct me if I’m mistaken. Our (US) government is totally beholden to special interests; military/corporate/intelligence/foreign/congressional/whatever; any lobbying group that will contribute to reelection coffers. Insidiously these groups enable a feed back mechanism which perpetuates the system at the
expense of uninformed taxpayers
The Is/Pal issues has been subsumed into this distructive gyre.
This is not now, and very likely will never be judged on the
issues of human rights, international law, or simple justice.
The die has been irrevocably cast in the narrow interests of
greed, power, and ( G-D gave us this land, from the Nile to the Dan) fantasy.
I love this web site, and so many of the insightful and inspiring
commentaries.
To the Editor: Wiesenfeld's reply NYT letters May 6
If Tony Kushner were a student, no trustee or administrator would have the right to deny him a degree if the requisite requirements were fulfilled.
On the other hand, an honorary degree is wholly within the discretion of the board to grant. It identifies the university with accomplished, generous citizens or public figures. It is also a tool that enhances a university’s image in the educational marketplace.
Mr. Kushner’s degree was opposed by a majority of the CUNY board because he is an extremist. No extremist from any quarter, whether from far left or far right, is a good face for any university.
What makes Mr. Kushner different from other honorees who are known Israel critics among the 450 or so honorary degrees awarded during the 12 years I have been on the board (all of them approved, including with my vote) is that he accuses Israel of ethnic cleansing — a term that crosses the line.
Ethnic cleansing is Nazi Germany, Bosnia, Darfur and Rwanda, to name a few (the American Indians didn’t fare too well, either). If Israel is an ethnic cleanser, how is it that over one million Arabs live better there than in almost any Arab state?
CUNY should remain a place of comfort and welcome for all of our students, faculty and administrators — including supporters of the Jewish state.
JEFFREY S. WIESENFELD
New York, May 5, 2011
The writer is the CUNY trustee who initially raised objections to an honorary degree for Tony Kushner.
If the issue is one of "ethnic cleansing" would engaging Mr. Wiesenfeld in
a debate be fruitful? I'd be happy to see this discussion aired in the MSM.
BTW Piotr, subtlety and nuance are often wasted on me, if I misread your
previous post, please forgive my intemperate response.
Can't f***king believe PRIOT dwells on a similar planet! Looking forward to his piece " Moral Distribution of White Phosphorus on Caged
Civilians" and his companion piece "The Morality of Laser Directed
(American Supplied) Missles on Ambulances"
Mondo, you have a winner here, a hasbarista par excellence.
given universal conscription does rocketing any area of Israel
(including former Palestine villages) constitute "targeting civilians"?
If deliberately targeting civilians is "terrorisim" how can indiscriminate
use of white phosphorus not be categorized as such?
Citizen,
you can't possible assume that public opinion/popular will
would, could possibly, influence the actions of the congressional
corporate plutocracy? seriously? ( I share your hopeless dream)
Same questions. From previous news items: Israeli drones, present
24/7, identify a car carrying suspected "terrorist" and demolish it
with a missile. Not from previous news items but confirmed by
informed sources: drones laser "paint" a target ie. ambulance, UN
observer post etc., for subsequent hit by a "smart" bomb. This argues
for an ability to instantly take out Gaza based missile launchers. Some
knowledgeable commentary would be appreciated.
given that Israel surveils Gaza 24/7, has demonstrated ability to
precisely launch missiles from drones, why should we not assume
Israel collusion in Hamas rocket attacks as an ongoing justification
to "defend itself"?
GTMA(F)B (give to me a break)
He's a hero! He put his legacy on the line! (perhaps endangered his retirement) early or late his action is worthy of praise.
We hope he will be an exemplar for other fence sitters.
I recently attended an annual PeaceAction fund raising dinner (select
audience, no?). After a wine or two I asked some of the casually encountered, (within an appropriate context) if it might not be time to question our financial support of Israel, especially given the difficulties
facing our less fortunate. People were polite, professed unfamiliarity with
the issue and drifted away. My fly was zipped, I did not have salad clinging
to my lips, nor had I trespassed on a cultural face space or halitosis free zone.
It is a monumental challenge to raise awareness of vital issues within a
context demanding conformity, but such an enticing circumstance.
I suspect your familial relationship will ultimately be reinforced by this
event, some discord is enhances intimacy.
The only people who might change the system, Congress, are profiting
from the status quo. Campaign finance reform, limiting donations or allowing "none of the above" on the ballot (thus forcing a reevaluation of the issues), proportional representation, and instant runoff voting would go a long way towards making the voting process more equitable.
Since no politician is going to vote against their reelection prospects
by embracing the above changes, the only non-violent way match the
influence of the corporations is a tax revolt. Congress is unresponsive to it's lower and middle class constituents, but we, not corporations,
enable them to continue to function.
No one is asking Israel to give up anything at this point, rather the
request is that Israel recognize the universal declaration of human rights,
(to which she is a signator) and to comply with the Geneva Conventions, and the convention against genocide. Until Israel is willing to abide by the
rules of international discourse , she ought to be pressured to conform,
or suffer universal opprobrium in the market place (BDS).
Avi,
Sort of calls into question the assertion of G-D gave it to us, no?
There is reason to be concerned that the historical record, and genetic reports in the scientific literature may be subject to an Israel centric
interpertation.
I always look forward to your informed comment
Terrific idea. How about this: offer settlers same deal, but they must surrender their domicile to Palestinian refugee. I've always felt the US should have taken every Jewish refugee fleeing European pogroms,
today they would be so throughly integrated as to obviate the horror
show unfolding in the middle east.
My cohort was overwhelmingly secular, progressive, diversity
embracing and mutually supportive within neighborhood enclaves.
Like my contemporaries they would have intermarried, joined the PTA,
golf clubs etc.
Of course it caused some pain to parents who wished to maintain some
religious or ethnic continuum, but the love of grandchildren conquers all such divisions.
I am somewhat financially constrained myself, retired social worker/school teacher, former director of the multi billion-hedge fund SKRUU, LLC.
I love this site. It brightens my day and is therapeutic: saves me from screaming at the radio and TV, wadding up the newspapers in a futile fit of rage and other childish behaviors.
I am indebted to Adam for his patience in dealing with my
luddite shortcomings. The check is in the mail. (honestly)
Please check out annainthemiddleeast.com a website of
the beautiful, compassionate, articulate Anna Baltzer.
I love Krugman (Robert Reich also), why fault him for not engaging in the IP issue? Many other important journalists avoid it as well, particularly those not pushing the Likud line. His commentary has significantly informed the public political
discourse, and especially by inference our foreign policy. If you wish to engage those who espouse a liberal agenda on thier IP views I suggest starting with Alan Grayson, Russell Feingold, Bruce Fein.
Simon previously did a segment on IDF commandeering a Palestinian home.
Oren likely was aware of this and predisposed to take the offensive. I applaud
60 minutes, Bob Simon and Jeff Fager for this show. The fallout will be fascinating.
dimadok,
"47% of Jewish Israelis are descendants from the refugees of Magreeb,
Iran and Irag"
Would appreciate substantive data regarding this assertion. Please cite.
and if you are occupying a public place to protest a corrupt financial
system and/or a bought and paid for congress, you clearly are a terrorist.
Known as "the Mafia Mentality" Is there an alternative to "give me what
I want or I'll kill you, or your family. or etc" ? Not much different from
the "Samson option", either we achieve a "greater Israel" or we will visit
a nuclear "holocaust" on you. See Martin Van Creveld re: deployment of
Israeli subs armed with nuclear tipped missiles.
Abbas has no legitimacy legal or otherwise, and has been hopelessly compromised by Israel. Do you suspect his U.N. move might result in
obviating the right of return?
I attempted to log on to FP to basically support Walts views but was denied
access. Perhaps I'm paranoid but I wonder if any of you may have encountered similar denial?
Perry went to Israel to receive a "Defender of Jerusalem Award" or
some such. 81 congress people were "enticed" to accept an all expense
paid trip to Israel, mostly "tea party" newly elected members. Aside from
what appears to be a blatant violation of congressional ethics, the common
theme seems to be that they are all, or vulnerable to Evangelical persuasion.
More likely to support (financially and otherwise) the inane proposition
that G-D gave Palestine to the "Jews"
Senator Hillary Clinton publicly called for the American Embassy to be
moved from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. Might give you some insight as to her mindset regarding Israel.
TNX Great insight/comment
the mines were laid in 1967
If the border were opened, that would obviate the necessity
for another flotilla. It appears that US/Israel interests are
to challenge the legitimacy of the international effort
to break the siege of Gaza. It’s frightening to contemplate
what they have in mind. Now that the Palestinians have
been designated the new “Wretched of the Earth”
we are left with the horrifying prospect of wholesale slaughter
of nonviolent demonstrators.
Israel/US has brought enormous pressure to prevent another Mavi Marmari episode.
Agree with Rutherford's comments above, doesn't this bring to the fore
the issue of foreign influence in domestic politics?
Correct me if I’m mistaken. Our (US) government is totally beholden to special interests; military/corporate/intelligence/foreign/congressional/whatever; any lobbying group that will contribute to reelection coffers. Insidiously these groups enable a feed back mechanism which perpetuates the system at the
expense of uninformed taxpayers
The Is/Pal issues has been subsumed into this distructive gyre.
This is not now, and very likely will never be judged on the
issues of human rights, international law, or simple justice.
The die has been irrevocably cast in the narrow interests of
greed, power, and ( G-D gave us this land, from the Nile to the Dan) fantasy.
I love this web site, and so many of the insightful and inspiring
commentaries.
To the Editor: Wiesenfeld's reply NYT letters May 6
If Tony Kushner were a student, no trustee or administrator would have the right to deny him a degree if the requisite requirements were fulfilled.
On the other hand, an honorary degree is wholly within the discretion of the board to grant. It identifies the university with accomplished, generous citizens or public figures. It is also a tool that enhances a university’s image in the educational marketplace.
Mr. Kushner’s degree was opposed by a majority of the CUNY board because he is an extremist. No extremist from any quarter, whether from far left or far right, is a good face for any university.
What makes Mr. Kushner different from other honorees who are known Israel critics among the 450 or so honorary degrees awarded during the 12 years I have been on the board (all of them approved, including with my vote) is that he accuses Israel of ethnic cleansing — a term that crosses the line.
Ethnic cleansing is Nazi Germany, Bosnia, Darfur and Rwanda, to name a few (the American Indians didn’t fare too well, either). If Israel is an ethnic cleanser, how is it that over one million Arabs live better there than in almost any Arab state?
CUNY should remain a place of comfort and welcome for all of our students, faculty and administrators — including supporters of the Jewish state.
JEFFREY S. WIESENFELD
New York, May 5, 2011
The writer is the CUNY trustee who initially raised objections to an honorary degree for Tony Kushner.
If the issue is one of "ethnic cleansing" would engaging Mr. Wiesenfeld in
a debate be fruitful? I'd be happy to see this discussion aired in the MSM.
BTW Piotr, subtlety and nuance are often wasted on me, if I misread your
previous post, please forgive my intemperate response.
Can't f***king believe PRIOT dwells on a similar planet! Looking forward to his piece " Moral Distribution of White Phosphorus on Caged
Civilians" and his companion piece "The Morality of Laser Directed
(American Supplied) Missles on Ambulances"
Mondo, you have a winner here, a hasbarista par excellence.
given universal conscription does rocketing any area of Israel
(including former Palestine villages) constitute "targeting civilians"?
If deliberately targeting civilians is "terrorisim" how can indiscriminate
use of white phosphorus not be categorized as such?
"In one minute, a courageous observer. In the next a spineless liar"...
could be true of most of us given sufficient pressure.
"He then recounts how he dealt with President Clinton".... funny thing
about Monica Lewinsky .............
Citizen,
you can't possible assume that public opinion/popular will
would, could possibly, influence the actions of the congressional
corporate plutocracy? seriously? ( I share your hopeless dream)
Same questions. From previous news items: Israeli drones, present
24/7, identify a car carrying suspected "terrorist" and demolish it
with a missile. Not from previous news items but confirmed by
informed sources: drones laser "paint" a target ie. ambulance, UN
observer post etc., for subsequent hit by a "smart" bomb. This argues
for an ability to instantly take out Gaza based missile launchers. Some
knowledgeable commentary would be appreciated.
given that Israel surveils Gaza 24/7, has demonstrated ability to
precisely launch missiles from drones, why should we not assume
Israel collusion in Hamas rocket attacks as an ongoing justification
to "defend itself"?
question: does Israel allow access to Palestinian prisoners by
international medical organizations, Red Crescent, Red Cross,
Medicins Sans Frontiers ?
GTMA(F)B (give to me a break)
He's a hero! He put his legacy on the line! (perhaps endangered his retirement) early or late his action is worthy of praise.
We hope he will be an exemplar for other fence sitters.
I recently attended an annual PeaceAction fund raising dinner (select
audience, no?). After a wine or two I asked some of the casually encountered, (within an appropriate context) if it might not be time to question our financial support of Israel, especially given the difficulties
facing our less fortunate. People were polite, professed unfamiliarity with
the issue and drifted away. My fly was zipped, I did not have salad clinging
to my lips, nor had I trespassed on a cultural face space or halitosis free zone.
It is a monumental challenge to raise awareness of vital issues within a
context demanding conformity, but such an enticing circumstance.
I suspect your familial relationship will ultimately be reinforced by this
event, some discord is enhances intimacy.
So what do you think is going to go down when Netanyahu's request
for Pollard's pardon reaches the sausage makers?
The only people who might change the system, Congress, are profiting
from the status quo. Campaign finance reform, limiting donations or allowing "none of the above" on the ballot (thus forcing a reevaluation of the issues), proportional representation, and instant runoff voting would go a long way towards making the voting process more equitable.
Since no politician is going to vote against their reelection prospects
by embracing the above changes, the only non-violent way match the
influence of the corporations is a tax revolt. Congress is unresponsive to it's lower and middle class constituents, but we, not corporations,
enable them to continue to function.
No one is asking Israel to give up anything at this point, rather the
request is that Israel recognize the universal declaration of human rights,
(to which she is a signator) and to comply with the Geneva Conventions, and the convention against genocide. Until Israel is willing to abide by the
rules of international discourse , she ought to be pressured to conform,
or suffer universal opprobrium in the market place (BDS).
Oh Chaos, stop trying to be diplomatic. "facts are stupid things"
(Ronnie Raygun) and of course they can be anti-semitic, silly.
Avi,
Sort of calls into question the assertion of G-D gave it to us, no?
There is reason to be concerned that the historical record, and genetic reports in the scientific literature may be subject to an Israel centric
interpertation.
I always look forward to your informed comment
Oh to be James Bond!
Terrific idea. How about this: offer settlers same deal, but they must surrender their domicile to Palestinian refugee. I've always felt the US should have taken every Jewish refugee fleeing European pogroms,
today they would be so throughly integrated as to obviate the horror
show unfolding in the middle east.
My cohort was overwhelmingly secular, progressive, diversity
embracing and mutually supportive within neighborhood enclaves.
Like my contemporaries they would have intermarried, joined the PTA,
golf clubs etc.
Of course it caused some pain to parents who wished to maintain some
religious or ethnic continuum, but the love of grandchildren conquers all such divisions.
I am somewhat financially constrained myself, retired social worker/school teacher, former director of the multi billion-hedge fund SKRUU, LLC.
I love this site. It brightens my day and is therapeutic: saves me from screaming at the radio and TV, wadding up the newspapers in a futile fit of rage and other childish behaviors.
I am indebted to Adam for his patience in dealing with my
luddite shortcomings. The check is in the mail. (honestly)
Please check out annainthemiddleeast.com a website of
the beautiful, compassionate, articulate Anna Baltzer.
Thanks for all you do.