Total number of comments: 81 (since 2010-09-03 21:27:38)
Showing comments 81 - 1Page: 1
psychopaths/sociopaths don’t necessarily exercise the nuclear
option. Guided by the history of the ongoing genocide of native
americans the Israelis may choose to stay below media managed public scrutiny and surreptitiously achieve the same ends.
“It is because Israel is trying to balance being as humane as possible with being as brutal as necessary that there is something to discuss” There is little to substantiate the opinion that Israel is attempting to be humane as possible, while much to prove the opposite, international law anyone?
“The Jews are still an ethical people” We all are “ethical people”,
sometimes and sometimes not, being Jewish doesn’t confer a
rigorous ethical mandate.
As to the various shades of grey an adult mind may be able to consider potentially ambiguous ethical considerations but not hesitate to declare an unequivocal response to some.
Check out The New Hampshire Gazette, where the ever vigilant flag
police's activities are reported fortnightly.
I.(izzy) F. Stone made the mold, rarely if ever to be surpassed.
The modest middle class, by and large secular but observant, community in which I had the privilege to grow up, would be outraged by the assaults on any minoritie's civil/human rights. Substitute mosque for synagogue, Muslim for Jew and they would be agitating for redress.
That those values seem to have been buried under a more muscular zionism I think is a tragic lose for civilization/humanism and civil discourse.
My understanding is that worse than our crumbling, neglected infrastructure, Fukashima (collective nuclear power complex, many times larger than Chernobyl) is
an earth tremor, tsunami away from a planetary catastrophe. The cost to perhaps mitigate this impending disaster will take all of our current defense budget several
times over, plus those of other countries, plus a combined international effort. Puts on the back burner our leaking nuclear storage sites, discretionary wars and military foreign aid.
" THE STRATEGIC FUNCTIONS OF U.S. AID TO ISRAEL
By Stephen Zunes
Dr. Zunes is an assistant professor in the Department of Politics at the University of San Francisco
Since 1992, the U.S. has offered Israel an additional $2 billion annually in loan guarantees. Congressional researchers have disclosed that between 1974 and 1989, $16.4 billion in U.S. military loans were converted to grants and that this was the understanding from the beginning. Indeed, all past U.S. loans to Israel have eventually been forgiven by Congress, which has undoubtedly helped Israel's often-touted claim that they have never defaulted on a U.S. government loan."
Thanks for that background. "The US has mandate to broker these endless peace talks." Shouldn't that be "has no mandate"?
Delighted to see Phyllys Bennis on Mondo
There is something like a UN passport accepted by some 83 countries, Ecuador and
Cuba included. Anybody have any idea if this presents any possibilities for Snowden?
Les, we're grateful for the reminder, especially given the Snowden, Manning
accusations of being traitors.
Isn't the settler, orthodox, birthrate equal to that of the Arab population? If so
might that suggest a further rationale for underwriting settlement growth?
"We are governed by venal traitors who do us much harm. The usual response to the accusation of this treachery is that if they did not support the lobby, they would be ousted from office by the lobby funding their challengers. I don’t buy this argument as there are other alternatives to brazen defiance"
Please elaborate.. what effective alternatives do you espouse?
Mr. Forman will also be responsible for ensuring that all State Dept. offices
prominently display the flag of Israel.
in reply to Dima..
> These dual Palestinian-US citizens .... while permitted entry into Gaza.
direct entry into Gaza is a rather tricky business, sea route not recommended (international waters be damned!), tunnels possible perhaps. One may attempt a balloon flight to the destroyed Gaza airport, defenestration however highly likely, also collision with (American supplied) F-16 doing routine, hearing damaging, window shattering, daily supersonic over flights. etc
I love this site, much enjoy hasbarats deconstruction. Where Mondophils is our
Sadly, Elizabeth Warren is apparently a zionist, as are my other favorites
Alan Grayson and Russell Feingold. But, how about Jill Stein ?
It’s very difficult to comprehend what sixty years of brutal occupation, countless indignities, deaths of loved ones and family, betrayals, demolitions of houses and
land must do to the collective psyche.
March 29, 2013 at 2:01 pm
“Yes to Israel.” 64% of Americans support Israel over the Palestinians – a survey of the Institute “Gallup” published on the eve of the visit of U.S. President Barack Obama Middle East. U.S. support for Israel is that three years but over 60% support in the latest poll is the highest surveys recorded the “Gallup” in 25 years.”
Mr. Kippot above devastates us antis. Of the 64% cited above, what %
are “below average, reputed to be 50% of the sample” what % polled
were of the “Jewish Persuasion” What % wear tin-foil hats? etc.
Some polls indicate a persistant conviction that the earth is flat, that
some corporeal bodies commute between heaven and earth, that
democracy is alive and well in the USofA.
In short, polls have an increasingly dubious value inside a body
incessantly drowned in a corporate media tsunami. Not to say
they are totally devoid of significance, but the message begs
critical interpertation, sorely lacking in the MSM discourse.
"After all, we here constantly criticize Israel for not being willing to have its jews share statehood with anyone else. But to the extent that the Palestinians reject a One-State solution isn’t that exactly what *they* are doing too? Saying no no no they won’t abide rubbing shoulders as fellow citizens with jews?"
Comment disregards voices on both sides advocating for 1SS. Not to mention centuries of mutually synergistic, mutually beneficial cohabitation.
"At *some*point the Palestinians just simply have to grasp the nettle, and if they don’t do it now any sympathy I at least had for them has got to be tempered by reality" Reminds me of 4th grade perceived wisdom "when rape is inevitable, relax and enjoy it"
"Palestinian state has to explain why their sympathy doesn’t also extend to the Israelis to have their own “pure” jewish state".
Because this pure Jewish State seems bent on eradicating any possibility of ethnic
Perhaps I need help here to stop hyperventilating. Did
de’prez not say that the Pals should stop whining about
the settlements? assume the compliant position?
Has the Empire renounced international, as well as
domestic law? Disregard for the rule of law invites
chaos and its tragic consequences.
Unless and until we have campaign finance reform, special interests will obliterate
hope for a just and equitable future, and perhaps a future as well.
Hophmi is representative of a unique/chosen group of
hasbarats who are capable of what is known in the medical
literature as “contortionist self-colonoscopy”. Subsequent debate regarding the procedure questions the results due to
a lack of sunshine in the bowel.
Be that as it may, partisans enthusiastically recommend the
current Congress embrace the practice and vote their
conviction on Israeli legislation.
Tax season is upon us. I must contribute to an administration I find evil and corrupt,
or be incarcerated. I don't have the conviction of Thoreau, or a tolerance for straitened circumstance. I am not in a position to criticize Germans who hoped to escape moral censure by doing nothing and vaguely hoping that good would prevail.
I am not happy to be a coward, a crude cost/benefit analysis suggests complicity as
a realistic choice.
In french AKA Freier Jacque
Lovely post, moving..... you dropped a balm Phil
“brennan et al can’t be so stupid as to not understand that these programs are counterproductive”
Why not consider Brennan et al as delusional pschyopaths?
re: Ron Suskind “we’re an empire now, and we create our own reality” or something very like that.
Perhaps the inmates have taken over the asylum!
Whoa, hold the phone! Moon phase, Mayan Calendar mojo whatever, none of us has a clue as to what actually went down, but we’re ready to tear some sphincters. Lets hope that this is not what it appears to be and await further confusing details,
perhaps leading to a rational assessment.
NPR’s main function is to imply that, all things considered, everything is going to be all right. If you are even slightly aware that the species is in fact sleep walking towards its own extinction then the reassuring message of NPR becomes addicting.
Also, remember that Linda Gradstein was somewhat rebuked for her Israel biased commentary.(thats how long ago it was that I listened to NPR)
hoping for a little more?
perhaps Al Gore
Didn’t Herzl welcome and count on provoking anti-semitism as a means to “legitimate” Israel as a state?
Doesn’t Netanyahu perpetuate this when he declares that Israel is a state for all Jews?
Recent polls indicate that many young Jews don’t share the intense identification
with Israel that older generations do.
We are obliged to correct, when given the opportunity, the public perception that conflates Israeli policy with mainstream American Jewish views despite the efforts of some to do just that.
I believe Israel has mined the area between the occupied Golan and Syria.
Attempting travel in the area could be fatal.
I wish this were’nt an issue. People, change thier names for
various reasons. African Americans wished to disassociate
themselves from identidy with former slave owners, most
here wished to appear more “American” thus Vassilios
became Basil, Mc became MaC, etc. However in this instance when the intent apparently is to bolster a claim of an unbroken 2000/3000 year “ownership” it deserves to be substantiated by facts.
please explain (......cosmopolitan Jew, Edward Said,......) I don't think Dr. Said
was a jew.
Kathleen, PM Golda Meir was reputed to have invoked the "samson option" to
successfully compel US aid to Israel during the 73 war.
It has also been furtively whispered in the dark alleys of conspirecyland that some
evil force has placed one of those missing nuclear bombs in a US city, threatening
to explode it should we (the USA) not comply with it's demands.
ToivoS, "To think I spent the first 15 years of that “process” believing Zionist lies"
Me too, along with other delusions: America is intent on spreading democracy, masturbation will cause you to go blind (that may be partially true, years of abuse have resulted in plum size cataracts) Some kind words from Israel Shamir have
helped enlighten me.
When I've heard Wexler, Greyson, Feingold speak I was enchanted, mesmerized, (and now, Elizabeth Warren), until it came to that unreserved support for reactionary fascist, Likud policies. This apparent schizoid divide baffles
and distresses me.
I love this site, and the informed commentary it invokes.
Mooser’s observations are inflected with cynicism, sarcasm,
humor and frequently uncomfortable truths. I for one treasure
them. You sort of have to be an habitué of this site to get
the zeitgeist.Take them seriously with a dash of skepticism.
I believe the late Tom Lantos, D-California, was responsible for quashing
a bill to investigate Corrie's death.
see my comment elsewhere in MW regarding the late California
Congressman Tom Lantos's efforts to quash the inquiry into
contemporary accounts, lost in the mists of the electronic netherworld,
mentioned alcohol as a possible factor
(applause) (riotous applause) I love this site, mind bending insights,
impeccable references, straight poop, glorious commentary (especially
from Mooser) go Adam, Phil!!
Heh Bro, where can I get some of that sh*t you smokin?
great insight/comment. would like to know where the missing trillions
I always wondered if Richard Perle and/or Elliott Abrams were dual citizens.
Perle was dismissed from his position as senior staff to Senator Scoop Jackson,
(who I think chaired the Senate Armed Service Committee) for passing classified
material to the Israel embassy. He later served, along with Henry Kissinger, on
the Defense Policy Board Advisory Committee, which is privy to secret defense
Elliott Abrams, who I believe once publicly declared that he loved Israel more than
America, has held Middle East policy positions in various government departments.
* MLE, there is no defense treaty between the US and Israel, therefore they are not
* American, Don't you think collusion between Israel and US arms manufacturers
is likely as a way to bypass prohibitions against arm sales to certain countries?
PS does anyone know of a way to find out who is a dual citizen, and of what country?
inadvertent consequence of Diebold machinations. A well known FL. anomaly .
To justify any action "because America does it also" is seriously insane. America
is number one again! historically in terms of innocents killed and semi-successful
As to "existential threat", I doubt any Israeli feels it more keenly than I. War with
Iran can reasonably be expected to result in global radioactive contamination.
About singleing out Israeli compared to other states human rights transgressions,
I say when their PM gets 28 standing ovations in the US Congress, when they get
$3 billion plus (part of which I was compelled to contribute) then I will oppose them vigorously.
P.S. Thank you Mooser for your enlightening response to my recent post.
I love this site, better than watching gladitorial tennis. Mondo should be
happy that they have attracted the best that the hasbaratchik can muster,
not equal however to the well informed, articulate, (poor spellers or typers) regulars
here who demolish them.
I posted this comment inappropriately previously.
Anyone out there having nightmares about Israeli submarines armed with
nukes roaming around? Martin Van Creveld has some thoughts on the matter.
Given past performances in Gaza, Lebanon, is it sayonara time?
I love Krugman (Robert Reich also), why fault him for not engaging in the IP issue? Many other important journalists avoid it as well, particularly those not pushing the Likud line. His commentary has significantly informed the public political
discourse, and especially by inference our foreign policy. If you wish to engage those who espouse a liberal agenda on thier IP views I suggest starting with Alan Grayson, Russell Feingold, Bruce Fein.
Simon previously did a segment on IDF commandeering a Palestinian home.
Oren likely was aware of this and predisposed to take the offensive. I applaud
60 minutes, Bob Simon and Jeff Fager for this show. The fallout will be fascinating.
"47% of Jewish Israelis are descendants from the refugees of Magreeb,
Iran and Irag"
Would appreciate substantive data regarding this assertion. Please cite.
and if you are occupying a public place to protest a corrupt financial
system and/or a bought and paid for congress, you clearly are a terrorist.
Known as "the Mafia Mentality" Is there an alternative to "give me what
I want or I'll kill you, or your family. or etc" ? Not much different from
the "Samson option", either we achieve a "greater Israel" or we will visit
a nuclear "holocaust" on you. See Martin Van Creveld re: deployment of
Israeli subs armed with nuclear tipped missiles.
Abbas has no legitimacy legal or otherwise, and has been hopelessly compromised by Israel. Do you suspect his U.N. move might result in
obviating the right of return?
I attempted to log on to FP to basically support Walts views but was denied
access. Perhaps I'm paranoid but I wonder if any of you may have encountered similar denial?
Perry went to Israel to receive a "Defender of Jerusalem Award" or
some such. 81 congress people were "enticed" to accept an all expense
paid trip to Israel, mostly "tea party" newly elected members. Aside from
what appears to be a blatant violation of congressional ethics, the common
theme seems to be that they are all, or vulnerable to Evangelical persuasion.
More likely to support (financially and otherwise) the inane proposition
that G-D gave Palestine to the "Jews"
Senator Hillary Clinton publicly called for the American Embassy to be
moved from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. Might give you some insight as to her mindset regarding Israel.
TNX Great insight/comment
the mines were laid in 1967
If the border were opened, that would obviate the necessity
for another flotilla. It appears that US/Israel interests are
to challenge the legitimacy of the international effort
to break the siege of Gaza. It’s frightening to contemplate
what they have in mind. Now that the Palestinians have
been designated the new “Wretched of the Earth”
we are left with the horrifying prospect of wholesale slaughter
of nonviolent demonstrators.
Israel/US has brought enormous pressure to prevent another Mavi Marmari episode.
Agree with Rutherford's comments above, doesn't this bring to the fore
the issue of foreign influence in domestic politics?
Correct me if I’m mistaken. Our (US) government is totally beholden to special interests; military/corporate/intelligence/foreign/congressional/whatever; any lobbying group that will contribute to reelection coffers. Insidiously these groups enable a feed back mechanism which perpetuates the system at the
expense of uninformed taxpayers
The Is/Pal issues has been subsumed into this distructive gyre.
This is not now, and very likely will never be judged on the
issues of human rights, international law, or simple justice.
The die has been irrevocably cast in the narrow interests of
greed, power, and ( G-D gave us this land, from the Nile to the Dan) fantasy.
I love this web site, and so many of the insightful and inspiring
To the Editor: Wiesenfeld's reply NYT letters May 6
If Tony Kushner were a student, no trustee or administrator would have the right to deny him a degree if the requisite requirements were fulfilled.
On the other hand, an honorary degree is wholly within the discretion of the board to grant. It identifies the university with accomplished, generous citizens or public figures. It is also a tool that enhances a university’s image in the educational marketplace.
Mr. Kushner’s degree was opposed by a majority of the CUNY board because he is an extremist. No extremist from any quarter, whether from far left or far right, is a good face for any university.
What makes Mr. Kushner different from other honorees who are known Israel critics among the 450 or so honorary degrees awarded during the 12 years I have been on the board (all of them approved, including with my vote) is that he accuses Israel of ethnic cleansing — a term that crosses the line.
Ethnic cleansing is Nazi Germany, Bosnia, Darfur and Rwanda, to name a few (the American Indians didn’t fare too well, either). If Israel is an ethnic cleanser, how is it that over one million Arabs live better there than in almost any Arab state?
CUNY should remain a place of comfort and welcome for all of our students, faculty and administrators — including supporters of the Jewish state.
JEFFREY S. WIESENFELD
New York, May 5, 2011
The writer is the CUNY trustee who initially raised objections to an honorary degree for Tony Kushner.
If the issue is one of "ethnic cleansing" would engaging Mr. Wiesenfeld in
a debate be fruitful? I'd be happy to see this discussion aired in the MSM.
BTW Piotr, subtlety and nuance are often wasted on me, if I misread your
previous post, please forgive my intemperate response.
Can't f***king believe PRIOT dwells on a similar planet! Looking forward to his piece " Moral Distribution of White Phosphorus on Caged
Civilians" and his companion piece "The Morality of Laser Directed
(American Supplied) Missles on Ambulances"
Mondo, you have a winner here, a hasbarista par excellence.
given universal conscription does rocketing any area of Israel
(including former Palestine villages) constitute "targeting civilians"?
If deliberately targeting civilians is "terrorisim" how can indiscriminate
use of white phosphorus not be categorized as such?
"In one minute, a courageous observer. In the next a spineless liar"...
could be true of most of us given sufficient pressure.
"He then recounts how he dealt with President Clinton".... funny thing
about Monica Lewinsky .............
you can't possible assume that public opinion/popular will
would, could possibly, influence the actions of the congressional
corporate plutocracy? seriously? ( I share your hopeless dream)
Same questions. From previous news items: Israeli drones, present
24/7, identify a car carrying suspected "terrorist" and demolish it
with a missile. Not from previous news items but confirmed by
informed sources: drones laser "paint" a target ie. ambulance, UN
observer post etc., for subsequent hit by a "smart" bomb. This argues
for an ability to instantly take out Gaza based missile launchers. Some
knowledgeable commentary would be appreciated.
given that Israel surveils Gaza 24/7, has demonstrated ability to
precisely launch missiles from drones, why should we not assume
Israel collusion in Hamas rocket attacks as an ongoing justification
to "defend itself"?
question: does Israel allow access to Palestinian prisoners by
international medical organizations, Red Crescent, Red Cross,
Medicins Sans Frontiers ?
GTMA(F)B (give to me a break)
He's a hero! He put his legacy on the line! (perhaps endangered his retirement) early or late his action is worthy of praise.
We hope he will be an exemplar for other fence sitters.
I recently attended an annual PeaceAction fund raising dinner (select
audience, no?). After a wine or two I asked some of the casually encountered, (within an appropriate context) if it might not be time to question our financial support of Israel, especially given the difficulties
facing our less fortunate. People were polite, professed unfamiliarity with
the issue and drifted away. My fly was zipped, I did not have salad clinging
to my lips, nor had I trespassed on a cultural face space or halitosis free zone.
It is a monumental challenge to raise awareness of vital issues within a
context demanding conformity, but such an enticing circumstance.
I suspect your familial relationship will ultimately be reinforced by this
event, some discord is enhances intimacy.
So what do you think is going to go down when Netanyahu's request
for Pollard's pardon reaches the sausage makers?
The only people who might change the system, Congress, are profiting
from the status quo. Campaign finance reform, limiting donations or allowing "none of the above" on the ballot (thus forcing a reevaluation of the issues), proportional representation, and instant runoff voting would go a long way towards making the voting process more equitable.
Since no politician is going to vote against their reelection prospects
by embracing the above changes, the only non-violent way match the
influence of the corporations is a tax revolt. Congress is unresponsive to it's lower and middle class constituents, but we, not corporations,
enable them to continue to function.
No one is asking Israel to give up anything at this point, rather the
request is that Israel recognize the universal declaration of human rights,
(to which she is a signator) and to comply with the Geneva Conventions, and the convention against genocide. Until Israel is willing to abide by the
rules of international discourse , she ought to be pressured to conform,
or suffer universal opprobrium in the market place (BDS).
Oh Chaos, stop trying to be diplomatic. "facts are stupid things"
(Ronnie Raygun) and of course they can be anti-semitic, silly.
Sort of calls into question the assertion of G-D gave it to us, no?
There is reason to be concerned that the historical record, and genetic reports in the scientific literature may be subject to an Israel centric
I always look forward to your informed comment
Oh to be James Bond!
Terrific idea. How about this: offer settlers same deal, but they must surrender their domicile to Palestinian refugee. I've always felt the US should have taken every Jewish refugee fleeing European pogroms,
today they would be so throughly integrated as to obviate the horror
show unfolding in the middle east.
My cohort was overwhelmingly secular, progressive, diversity
embracing and mutually supportive within neighborhood enclaves.
Like my contemporaries they would have intermarried, joined the PTA,
golf clubs etc.
Of course it caused some pain to parents who wished to maintain some
religious or ethnic continuum, but the love of grandchildren conquers all such divisions.
I am somewhat financially constrained myself, retired social worker/school teacher, former director of the multi billion-hedge fund SKRUU, LLC.
I love this site. It brightens my day and is therapeutic: saves me from screaming at the radio and TV, wadding up the newspapers in a futile fit of rage and other childish behaviors.
I am indebted to Adam for his patience in dealing with my
luddite shortcomings. The check is in the mail. (honestly)
Please check out annainthemiddleeast.com a website of
the beautiful, compassionate, articulate Anna Baltzer.
Thanks for all you do.
Comments are closed.