Commenter Profile

Total number of comments: 3027 (since 2009-12-08 10:00:12)


One summer in Germany, a while back, I met many returning US kibbutzim. The exuberance and energy was affecting. Influenced by that, a few months later in college I started to physically protest/jeer from the Israeli perspective. On one occasion we all headed to the Cleveland City Club to hear and jeer Chomsky. Between our interruptions (which he handled gracefully with a "noted" and went on), I heard him speak about water theft. For some reason, being as swept up in the Uris-like glow about Israel as I was, I had never heard (listened?) or asked about anything remotely disturbing about Israel. Afterward I started asking basic questions like, "If this is true, how can one people do this to another people, and we cheer it on?" and got few even marginally responsive answers. All the contradictions between Israel-reality and Israel-myth that appear here, were present even then. The veil was pierced and my perspective flipped almost immediately. It was the '70s, Kent State, and we were supposed to be FOR civil rights. FOR everybody. I felt grossly stupid and more than a little betrayed. My former physical tactics and experience mirror what goes on here an in the larger net world. I understand the desperate need (by Israel) to clamp the lid down hard (and keep it clamped) on the deeply troubling reality of everyday Palestinian life. It also suggests that just one little glimmer of reality that gets through can make a difference, one person at a time. One never knows which glimmer that might be...

Showing comments 3027 - 3001

  • The betting line on Netanyahu's speech to Congress
  • Charlie Hebdo: The sacred of the 'wretched of the Earth' and its desecration
    • Aye, seafoid. And flip it. With the US running up $Ts in debt, somebody has to buy those bonds. How can US policy meaningfully diverge from that of the people it is wholly dependent upon to buy that debt/underwrite our "small war" policy? Same with China.

      There's a good article (I really like David Hearst, the author) at MEM about the house cleaning going on in KSA leadership. Salman seems to be heading toward a more coherent (i.e. non-destabilization) Saudi foreign policy in MENA.

      link to

      Coincidentally (or not) so are we.

      Meanwhile a propaganda campaign in the U.S. media was launched to rehabilitate the Syrian president Bashar Assad. On January 19 the NYT propagandist Anna Barnard pointed to a (yet hardly observable) shift in the U.S. position towards the Syria war.

      link to

      It's also, as I understand you to imply, hard figure out who Saudi over-production is helping or hurting. Low prices hurt Iran, but they also hurt ISIS and the export of Wahabism (and, apparently, the DJIA. Go figure.) Intersting stuff.

  • 'NYT' perpetuates myth Israel was 'fighting for its very survival' during 1967 war
  • Salaita sues donors for 'injecting' themselves into U of Illinois decision, threatening to withhold gifts unless he was fired
  • Video: Racist Israel supporter films himself attacking Toronto students, urinating on BDS poster
    • I wonder if he needs a visa to be in Canada.

      This is the kind of person Sen. Boxer wants to grant unfettered access to the US. I can see a whole thug tourism industry developing here.

    • I see what you're saying, Chu. It was just interesting to me, not a quibble.

      But now I'm curious what HE was feeling, other than being hopped up on about a gram of crystal meth.

    • That's funny how perceptions differ, Chu. I got more of a sense of "I can't believe I have to say this more than once!" kind of peevish tone. Like it was virgin territory.

      In any event, everyone's an Ay-rab to jerks like this. And "jerk" is by no means dismissive of this guy's ability and slightly papered-over desire to do real harm.

    • Yeah just. As the ptb fan the flames of hate to serve their murderous, 52-card pickup, destabilization agenda in MENA, they encourage and nurture the same destabilizing forces at home.

      It's gonna be hell to pay for lighting political fires like this.

    • @PTJ, because it's a way to get a million likes on his f/b page from his Israeli fan/thug base.

      They eat that stuff up big-time.

    • Jewish-Israelis don't relate to free people well. Maybe not at all. Violence and intimidation are the way and the life, respectively.

      Just ask the French PM (Valls?).

  • Independent investigation details Israel's deliberate targeting of civilians in Gaza
    • OT, but where did the Gaza water supply article go? I can still get at it from my comments and search, but it's gone from the display.

      That article was about a practice/crime that is as dark and sinister as it gets, imho. Even more damning that this article.

      1.8M people/city dwellers in the most congested area on the planet (now doubly congested) living in and among ruins are without regular water and sanitation, by Israeli design and as a tool of subjugation.

      AND they are not allowed to fix anything.

      AND the world watches it happen.

      You can not live without water. Without it, nothing else matters.


    • "... that for over 60 years and with impunity has been committing land theft, occupation, colonization, destruction, torture, murder and other (war) crimes."

      Exactly eljay. That's the known path of escalation. There's probably even a latin name for the process.

      Annie made an observation a couple of months ago that the legal definition of Genocide is narrow at the front end precisely because of the escalation and the need to prevent it. You all are so right.

      Far from "facially" or otherwise stupid, the drafters of the post WWII definition of Genocide, imho, specifically pointed to this kind of a pattern/progression of societal behavior as non-hypothetical (can/does happen anywhere), identifiable (early warning signs), symptomatic and predictive of worse to come, and sadly, all too familiar (1940s) to them.

      This report shows that Israel is past the non-hypothetical part, and well into the identifiable part. The worse-to-come part remains to be seen, but as I think you imply, ain't nothing standing in the way of it.

      I hope the authors of this report, and the report itself, don't get Goldstoned. The Israelis don't need any more political encouragement.

  • Report accuses Israel of targeting Gaza's water facilities
    • Seconded, just. This is some really sick shit.

      I tried to drink brackish water here at home for a single day just to get the tiniest inkling of what it was like. Can't be done.

      No electricity to pump or purify. Nitrates in water (ntm brackish/chloride water) cause birth defects and stunted growth and organ failure. 50% of Gaza residents are under what? 15?

      Bottled water for 1.8M people? What a joke. What a crime.

      What kind of people can do this on such a scale, and why? Because they voted for Hamas? Because they won't lay down and die?

      Sidenote: A while back I tried to find some paper or study or other about what the effects of prolonged deprivation are on a large population. I couldn't find any with a reasonably thorough search (that doesn't mean there are none). Reasonable people can speculate different reasons why, but my feeling is that studying a captive population's intentionally imposed/engineered deterioration into sickness and death, for posterity's sake, is entirely too ghoulish/Mengele-istic to undertake (though I'm sure there are some at the Israeli Ministry of Starvation who would jump at the chance to quantify the effectiveness of government policy choices.*)

      * Sorry for that, but this just makes me physically sick to think about for even a little bit.

  • Former Obama aide's thinktank calls for 1/4 of French Jews to move to Israel
    • "... In what other line of work could someone fail consistently for two decades and still have a job?”

      Heh. In the line of work where failure is the objective.

      Thanks for the reminder and your great comments, Kathleen.

  • Can we just retire the phrase 'relative calm'?
    • "Easier to equalize and equivocate."

      Great point, Mooser. Not so much weird as strategy.

      I tend to resist the thought that hypothetically sane people do this kind of stuff intentionally. I'm getting tired of the effort, but I don't like the relatively narrow thinking that giving in leads to, personally speaking. It's a character flaw.

    • It sounds like they cover Israel like it's a local beat, not an international conflict with global implications.


  • Congress invites Netanyahu to rebut Obama on Iran, and White House slams 'breach of protocol'
    • How can going behind the US president's back to ally oneself with a foreign leader embarrass or humiliate anyone but the one allying with the foreign leader?

      The fact that these writers accept the premise that it can be a humiliation is an astounding example of how normal it is in some circles to have Israel so seemlessly embedded in US politics.

      It is abnormal in the extreme.

      While reading your excerpt, Kay24, I got the crisp mental image of someone walking next to a cliff, blindfolded -- in a dense fog. Don't ask me why.

  • Gaza war blowback? Palestinian stabs 13 on Tel Aviv bus.
  • The ‘hasbara’ tweeps who brought down Jim Clancy, and their ties to Israel and the Israel lobby
    • Yeah, C&D. It's not just aid. It's a racket.

      Like *just* said, it's really good to see the circularity laid out in detail.

      Aid→profits→political contributions→aid...

  • Palestinian Bedouin dies as Israeli police fire tear gas on funeral procession
    • Hi just. It's a cut and paste from twitter on an Android phone. I haven't tried it on the mac yet, but you may be able to C/P stuff like that on any computer. Maybe...


    • RoHa, I had to go look it up. Apparently the accusation is that Iran directed it (whatever that means) and Hezbollah carried it out.

      link to

      You're right. It's hard to gleen a direct motive, but this was 1994, Israel had killed the first 10,000 Lebanese of that exercise, and there were probably some pretty crazy-mad people around. The motive given in the wiki, that Argentina broke a nuclear assistance deal with Iran, is beyond flimsy.

      Who knows? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    • I don't know, just. How could it be exploitation? I'm sure the Israeli understanding of French "satire" is pretty much the same as the French understanding of French "satire" when it comes to ugly depictions of Mohammed. I'm sure any Israeli who buys the magazine would immediately get that its cover is meant to satirize extremism in all its forms-- just as their French counterparts would.

      Oh never mind. You're right.

    • Agree Bornajoo, just, and seafoid. The rejection seems pretty universal.

      And Bornajoo, thanks for making this conversation possible with your PCR links. It was/is common ground and I wouldn't have made it otherwise. Another win for MW. ;)

    • This is going to be interesting, just.

      And I thought it was Hezbollah that did the Argentina bombing. If it was Iran, doesn't that take Hezbollah off the terrorist list (heh, politics)? Or at least remove the main reason they're on it?

    • OT, but interesting.

      I'm not sure if I'll say this right but here goes...

      The ingredients for a broad popular rejection of the Israeli narrative are coming together. We all know about the connection being made militarized police oppression of minorty communities in the US and Israel's treatment of the Palestinians. To add to that I just had a conversation with a guy I used to work with who just had his hours cut. White guy, right-leaning libertarian, deep South.

      He totally dismisses everything he's been told about economics and war by MSM. He brought up Paul Craig Roberts early in the convo as suggested reading. I told him that at Bornajoo's insistence I had just started reading him. Using PCR, I jumped on the connection to Israel and this latest wave of cynical manipulation of anti-Muslim hysteria. I could see he hadn't made the connection up to then, but I saw the light bulb go off.

      He realized that almost everything he'd ever been told about Israel and Palestinians was part of/related to his pre-existing rejection of everything else he'd ever been told on macro (we didn't actually use the word "macro") issues.

      We had a long, reinforcing, dot-connecting discussion after that.

      Anecdotal, but unexpected because: A) this guy's a bit of a neck; and, B) I really was surprised at the breadth of his reading and the intensity of his desire for answers. It wasn't a complete sell, but the connection is there to be made.

      Perhaps evidence of a latent "left-right" popular realignment on this and other issus -- latent being the operative word. Still, a little closer to the surface than I had thought.

      File it under "hopeful" I guess.

  • The legacy of Joan Peters and 'From Time Immemorial'
  • On CNN, Boteach lectures two prominent Muslims about freedom they 'enjoy' in US and Israel
    • Hah. And "We only need a few buffalo to get us over the mountains."

      PS, a blah chick, I miss Molly Ivins a lot. Didn't mean to ignore your reply.

    • Bingo, Krauss. I was just about to write that.

      I'd like to see someone like Jubreal do exactly that: "Judaism has been hijacked by murderous Zionist zealots. When will Jews take back their good name/religion/whatever?"

      Assume the leadership of the discussion from the getgo. Lecture as Boteach does -- like your opponents are children. Start with that assumption. Do it first, not as a reaction. Rephrase it, repeat it often, and don't digress. Use the word "Again,..." a lot.

      I'd spring for a 3D ticket for that one.

      It's wrong to talk down to people that are your equals, but sometimes it's necessary to staunch the flow of BS. A rhetorical back fire (forestry sense).

  • Why Charlie Hebdo offends me
  • Debate over trip to Israel reveals fissures in Muslim American community
    • A boycott of #MLI participants and experiences is just as wrong as the Hillel exclusion policy.

      Further, but diametrically unlike Hillel, it's wrong because the overwhelming body of historical and ongoing facts and conditions that would be discussed as a totality favor the open forum. They profoundly support increased Palestinian solidarity and the rejection of Zionist mythology (and its effects) from an institutional/community perspective.

  • Congress says possible Palestinian unity gov't must recognize Israel as a Jewish state in order to receive aid
    • Wow. Thanks Abierno.

      Israel pulls this withholding stunt so often (I wonder if Palestine has ever gotten the interest from Israel's use of Palestinian funds) that I couldn't understand why they didn't abrogate the Paris Protocols and start their own banking infrastructure.

      I hope Russia makes their alternative happen and the BRICs adopt it wholly.

  • Why I am not Charlie
    • Good (critical), long (contextual) article on Charlie Hebdo's slide into racism by a former CH writer, Olivier Cyran.

      “Encoding racism to make it imperceptible, and therefore socially acceptable”, is how Thomas Deltombe defines the function of Islamophobia, also described as a “machine for refining crude racism”[17]. These two formulas fit you like a glove.

      link to

    • American, the IBT should have called it satire and the world would have rushed to their defense.

    • Molly Ivins:

      • There are two kinds of humor. One kind that makes us chuckle about our foibles and our shared humanity -- like what Garrison Keillor does. The other kind holds people up to public contempt and ridicule -- that's what I do. Satire is traditionally the weapon of the powerless against the powerful. I only aim at the powerful. When satire is aimed at the powerless, it is not only cruel -- it's vulgar.

      (h/t Clint Sharpe on Twitter)

      And as Max Blumenthal pointed out, Charlie Hebdo fired a cartoonist (Maurice Sinet/Siné) for ONE allegedly anti-semitic article and cartoons; link to (for which he received death threats from the JDL).

      The rag was definitely not an equal opportunity offender.

      I'm so not Charlie.

  • The moral hysteria of Je suis charlie
  • Media obsesses over 'free speech' in Charlie Hebdo case while ignoring Israeli targeting of journalists
  • The Israel lobby rallies inside the Republican Party
    • Agree, Bandolero. He's an unknown quantity on this issue, as opposed to two knowns/captives. That's attractive.

      That attractive uncertainty may overshadow his weaknesses in other areas. Hard to tell.

      Let the games begin.

  • Israeli high court freezes plan to build Separation Wall through West Bank village of Battir
    • Yeah well, anything is possible, but the history of the past few decades of land confiscation and assimilation by settlers across the WB would seem to assign the probabilities.

      Just the fact that Israel was going to build a wall through this historic valley means that it was confiscating some of these ruins for settler ownership and exploitation.

      I'm glad they preserved them for now. But I still wonder what the outcome would have been if the settlers in the area hadn't joined the petition to stop the construction.

    • I read that the settlers in the area also argued against building the wall through the historic Roman-era artifacts in the valley. I wonder if the court would have granted the stay if the settlers had not joined with the residents in opposition to the wall construction.

      I get the feeling that they covet and want to preserve the irreplaceable historic nature of the site because of its value when they take it over, free of Palestinians.

      Whatever the reason, something irreversible has been averted with this decision, for the moment. Great!

  • Israeli settlers attack US consulate convoy in the West Bank (Updated)
    • I hope the consular staff go back today, tomorrow, the next day, and the next, and the next, and the next...

      Make the point, show the world, the Congress, and the voters that this is not some random event, that Israel is out of control, and that they can't have health care because their tax dollars not only pay for the settlers to be there with rocks and clubs to threaten our people, but also for the repairs to the vehicles (sometimes it's the little things that reach out and grab you).

  • Dershowitz named in lawsuit alleging abuse of underage sex slave
  • The 'bait & switch' politics of liberal Zionism
    • Speaking of liberal Zionists, here's a real cake-taker:

      Aaron David Miller...

      PA trifecta on ICC: hand Bibi great campaign issue; weaken Israeli center; and piss off Obama and Republican Congress.For what?

      link to

      The thread is astounding in its "invisible Palestinians" mentality. Palestinians are seen purely as background for Jewish concerns, and worse, ambitions. Even now, knowing what ANY sentient person now knows.

      Truly fugly stuff. Banality of evil.

    • All traces were probably lost in the flood...

    • Great article. All cylinders...

  • David Brooks says 'people from around the world' can serve in Israeli military
    • Is it that Brooks avoided mentioning the exclusion because it wouldn't play well, or does he simply not consider others in his worldview?

      Given that he seems generally oblivious on a variety of issues, it would seem to be the blinkered latter.

    • @John O- The point about not serving in your own country's military is visceral enough be a pivot point in popular awareness of the dynamics of this issue, if not a closer attention to the facts of it. Particularly when your own country is at war as your neighbors are going in your place.

      This whole cheery celebration of "Off to join the IDF!" in media culture is going to turn a whole lot of people's stomachs, if isn't doing so already.

  • 'Spiral,' 'threat,' 'polarization,' or 'full-scale popular campaign for Palestinian freedom' -- reactions to the ICC move
    • Thanks so much, tree. Very kind of you.

      Glad I asked! I would never have figured it out.

    • I think Whizdom points out the consequences upthread. The effect is not so much whether the ICC has its own enforcement mechanism on broad issues. The ICC could not roll back the borders. What happens (in my understanding of it all) is that the people who engineer the crimes are apprehendable in signatory countries. This makes travel impossible for complicit non-diplomats/state officials.

      As Ellen pointed out a year or so ago (does anyone know how to search for user id's...), it also throws investment/business risk through the roof because the uncertainty of doing business in/with Israel is unmeasurable and/or accompanied by potential criminal liability. Tough to include that risk factor in a prospectus without chasing people away (e.g. We use WB water and have for years. This may be a war crime and expose the company to substantial liability...). Heck, they couldn't even disclose it without admitting criminality. That's uncertainty amplifying uncertainty (i.e. what aren't they saying?, asks the investor).

      I'm sure the more knowledgeable people here can answer your question better, and I'm sure the list is long. But that's my first pass at it.

      Again, see Whizdom's comments upthread.

    • Thanks Taxi. I think Israel's basal fear on ICC involvement is as Cole alludes, it's just so obvious.

      Judgements favorable to the Palestinians are "no-brainers." All this has been going on for generations (but I understand that the PLO/PA accession papers narrow that time frame to June 2014 forward). The evidence must be literally mountainous and irrefutable. Israel is even threatening to provide more evidence in real time in their desperate attempts to punish the Palestinians for seeking their legitimate and long-denied rights as humans.

      iI I was on a train heading for that cliff, at speed, throttle stuck, yeah, I'd be worried too.

      The Israelis just can't help themselves now. Generations of having their own criminal way have rendered them incapable of change.


  • Our top ten viewed posts in 2014 -- and five most prolific commenters, too!
  • Fireworks in Ramallah, as Abbas signs treaty to join International Criminal Court
    • Hi Rusty, howzit?

      I was just my pea brain around something that the UN could actually do, and for the world consensus to get behind, on record (as expressed by 10-11/16 of the UNSC this year), as an organic development. I think it's harder to kick bad states out than getting long-suffering/disadvantaged one's in. Kosovo and S. Sudan come to mind.

      The US would still veto, but we would be vetoing something entirely new, imho. Progress of sorts.

      Hope all is well...

    • If Palestine is going to resubmit anything in 2015, it should be something additive, clarifying, and more within the purview of the UN itself to implement. Something like:

      Palestine is recogognized as a state, with all the rights and responsibilities inherent thereto.

      To me that removes Israel's blanket blocking excuse, embraces/enhances all manner of process options, and doesn't artificially, unintentionally, and/or externally elevate any one option (leaving it solely up to Palestinians to choose, prioritize, and politick).

      To throw in, or focus on, negotiations and a specific outcome, and to get the (non-Anglo) world to sign on to that completely discredited specificity in an effort to achieve the already achieved embarrassment (or something, I can never quite tell what) of the Anglo world seems retardant, wasteful, if not out outright harmful to Palestinian progress in whatever form it may take going forward.

      Palestine only gets a very, very few more bites at the UNSC apple. I hope they use them wisely and meaningfully.


      Someone's probably already pointed this out, but the Rome Statue accession papers cover criminality from June 1, 2014, forward.

    • I wonder if that approval is in the form of an affirmation or an acquiescence.

      IOW, does there have to be a veto-able motion (US veto) to go forward, or would it be a veto-able (e.g. China veto) motion to end rhe process?

      So many new things to talk about...

  • Finally, What Does Mondoweiss Mean To You?
    • Reiterating the Walt quote, you all/MW have the courage to allow and enable writers and commenters to push the envelope on this issue. That's no small thing.

      It's hard to overstate how critical that free space is to forming and foregrounding new perspectives, allies, energy and God willing, movement on what would otherwise be a buried issue.

      Thanks. HNY and an expansive 2015...


  • Palestinian resolution fails at the Security Council, U.S. votes against 'staged confrontation' at the UN
    • @C&D, Yep. Fingers crossed that it's "interesting" in a good way.

      My fear is that Israel is so irredeemably perverse that it will seek to punish (or more perversely, sees this all as punishable) the Palestinians for initiating the ICC process quadrupling down on the very war-criminality that got it in this position in the first place.


    • Ramzi, I also saw the other day that the PA is $2B++ in debt.

      Dare we say "house of cards" at this point?

      I don't want to get too giddy about all this ( but Yay! anyway...) but it seems like critical mass is approaching for a PA implosion bringing with it a range of new possibilities (and uncertainties).

      Tough going ahead. But as Bill Murray said in "Groundhog Day," "Anything different is good."

    • A little more context from Matt Lee/AP (h/t Joe Catron):

      link to

      No small part of the context is that AP chose to call this "The Big Story."

    • Unless I misundertand all this (and Hostage's explanations of who does what and has standing in these things), it may have been the PLO that acceded, Ramzi.

      That would underscore your "fold up" point. If the PLO is representing Palestinians in these matters, that means one less [big] reason for the PA to exist. And if I understood Hostage correctly it makes one state v. two states wrangling irrelevant to the preservation of Palestinian rights going forward.


    • BREAKING - RT "@nadplo: President #Abbas just signed on the #RomeStatute of the International Criminal Court" Happy New Year #Palestine!

    • C&D, apparently he just did accede. From the PLO Twitter feed:

      Check out @NabilaRamdani's Tweet: link to

  • Updated Security Council resolution calls for East Jerusalem as Palestinian capital, Israel says UN creating 'second Hamastan'
    • Can't edit on the phone... Sibiriak, my logic on 1S1P1V is that 2-4M incorporated Palestinians are never going to go away so the combination of never giving back the WB and never going away leaves onky two outcomes. I don't believe the genocide/al option is feasible even by Israeli moral standards. Time frame is TBD.


    • Sorry Sibiriak. I see what you're saying. My bad. I was being a dick.

      I guess "at this point" is my way of saying that it wasn't always inevitable but is now. Not that it might change going forward. Again my inartfulness.

    • Sibiriak, With all due respect, "In any event" is a disconnect/de-link, not a hedge.

      As in, in any event, I didn't owe you an explanation but I did so as a courtesy.

      As in, the inevitability of one state is completely separate from these current two state gyrations. Israel is NEVER going to give up the WB, and has said and demonstrated that root fact repeatedly. What that reality spawns in terms of politics and future equal rights struggle (and timing) is anyone's guess.

    • Ramzi, For whatever it may be worth, I get it. The PA is a corrupt org. That was the vote/referendum result in, what, 2006. It's not about popular belief. Palestinians wouldn't seem to me to need any more stoking in that respect. You/they know the score, so it's currently about mechanism. How to push it over the line, if possible. This is endgame stuff given the current power balance and political realities. One LAST try.

      If the PA delays going to the ICC this time, yeah, it's over for the PA. But, imho, in order for them to leverage such vastly more powerful (albeit changing) opponents, and not prolong the farce, they had to do it this way.

      Personally, and other than for leveraging world governmental opinion ("We've tried it your way, now we'll try it ours.") I really don't see much point or substance (or angst for that matter) in a UNSC resolution proclaiming/prolonging the notional desirability and/or viability of two states. Whichever way it had gone, whenever they (the PA) had done it. As you say so often, for Palestinians two-states has been over for a long time. Today's result echoes that and caps it off, internationally. Finito in any meaningful sense (though of course we all know that it's not really finito because the US and Israel will keep jawboning it ad infinitum).

      I don't think a US veto changes any of that. Heck, we vetoed our own publicly stated policy, verbatim, when the settlement resolution came up a few years ago. More evidence is simply not necessary as to where the US stands on this issue. Time to check the box and go forward, which is what I HOPE the PA did here.

      But maybe they didn't. Don't know.

    • @Annie, the Palestinian ambassador's speech was a litany of Israeli war crimes, presented on record (vs. the Israeli rep's thuggish "How dare you [get all uppity]" three sentence rebuttal).

      So many maybe's in all this, but "sign up fast" is the operative phrase/action.

    • Ramzi, not to play devil's advocate, though it may be that I am, in the sense of "exhausting all remedies" in an approach to the ICC, this defeat was necessary. That may be why the PA did this prematurely.

      If they had waited for a more supportive makeup of the UNSC, and the resolution passed, it may be that the peace process farce would have had to continue for the duration of whatever length of time the UNSC consensus dictated (with or without an anticipated and therefore ignorable US veto). The world consensus would have been on record as supporting another prolonged "negotiation" period. Now that is not an option. This "defeat" leaves clear the path to the ICC.

      It may not be a "defeat."

      Time will tell.

      In any event, 1S1P1V is the inevitable outcome at this point. There may be/are multiple viable paths to that end result.

  • Leading rabbi tells Arab ambassador not to 'shlep' Kerry's view of Palestine into discussion of religion and terrorism
    • I don't know if this fits in on this thread, but I caught a rerun of "To the Contrary" about the acceptance of gays in a few Protestant (conservative Protestant) churches. I guess what struck me were the smiling faces/expressions of relief of the congregation members as their churches removed the, I struggle with the right word but..., "stricture" to condemn people not like them.

      Profound, liberating relief, imho. Affecting stuff.

      Perhaps that example applies/might apply to Jewish congregations as well, on this issue. Isn't letting go of the stress of enforced hatred a good thing?

      Episode blurb: link to

      I'll try to find the video. It teared me up a bit.

  • 'New York Times' normalizes the blockade of Gaza
    • "Did they (any of the 48) survive?"

      That is an f'ing brilliant question eGuard.

      And thanks for your comment on this at EI. It added supreme amplifying context for that article. This is a pattern of double cruelty to these children, not just some recent "light bulb" event.

    • It works in the US. Sadly.

      "One for each..." college campus/student government (labor union/police force/congressional district/white house).

    • And the cruelest bit is that after their little visit (after their usefulness for Israeli propaganda has ended), these orphaned kids would be packed back off to Gaza to live the rest of their lives digging through rubble looking for toys and/or ultimately a place to live.

      Yes, I exaggerate, a [very] little, but using these kids in this way is sick beyond imagination.


      Note eGuard's comment to the EI article. These SAME people did this SAME thing after the Cast Lead 2009 slaughter. The sickness is entrenched and accepted as normal in Israel.


      I wonder if William Goldman is a Zionist, because the Inigo Montoya lines from "The Princess Bride" apply here with stark anti-Zionist implication:

      IM: My name is Inigo Montoya [I am a Gaza orphan.]. You killed my father. Prepare to die.

      Count Rugen: What do you want? I will give you anything you ask [How 'bout a nice trip to the zoo?].

      IM: I want my father back, you sonofabitch! (Kills Rugen)

      Is THAT the lifelong leadership vision the organizers of this effort seek to foster? Seems like it.

    • Exactly. If this was even remotely sincere, it would have been an exchange.

  • Caroline Glick says there were no Palestinian refugees
  • Next U.S. elections threaten Israel's 'total isolation' -- and the Israeli public is worried
    • Good one, RoHa.

    • So 95% of Jewish-Israelis supported this year's summer slaughter in Gaza, and now 90% of those same people are concerned about Israel's worsening global isolation.

      If Israel was a person, wouldn't that level of dissonance signal a psychotic break? With nukes.

      It's just completely, collectively, and dangerously divorced from reality.

  • Sony email chain on behalf of Israel joined Russell Simmons and Michael Lynton with rightwing Zionists
  • 'We want Christmas without occupation': Israel attacks Bethlehem protesters dressed as Santa with tear gas
    • Why is Obama asking Israel to intervene on a completely unrelated issue anyway.

      Does it and its supporters here simply run all aspects of our US politics so completely and so blatantly?

  • Hillary Clinton's decision to support Iraq war was driven by Israel concern, Chris Matthews says
    • And that vilification also applies to US citizens who run off to join the IDF while their own country is at war (i.e. thereby sending their neighbors off to fight and die in their place).

  • Hillel Int'l doubles down, smearing campus critics of Israel as anti-semites
    • Wolf! Wolf! Wolf! Wolf! Wolf! Wolf! Wolf! Wolf! Wolf! Wolf! Wol...

      Chomp. Slurp. Belch.

      Don't these people get it?!

  • On eve of University of California honor, Bill Maher defends anti-Muslim hate speech in Vanity Fair interview
    • "Quite reprehensible in my view."


      But beyond that it's the specific enabling reason why we killed 300,000 to 500,000 Iraqis, why nobody bats an eye when we "destabilize" Syria resulting in an equal number of dead, Israel slaughters Palestinians by the thousands with regularity, etc. etc. etc.

      Muslims are expendable. Maher's hateful garbage causes that non-concern and enables that behavior. It has horrific, real-world, life and death implications for Muslims, on a massive scale, for the foreseeable future.

      Yeah, it's beyond reprehensible. It's murderous.

  • The Milsteinian candidate
  • Memo to Sen. Warren: More young Dems want US to side with Palestine than Israel
    • Howard Dean cracked the code on the money. He got destroyed for it, but the next person will do it better and be more prepared for the backslash (as will their supporters).

      John MacArthur, publisher of Harper's Magazine, explaining it on Moyers (@16:00, but the full show is worth a look).

      link to

      10M people give $20 each until some candidate gets it right and wins using the new mechanism. I'd subscribe to that process for the long haul.

      I think it's more doable than not, but success would require more than a suspension of disbelief. It would require actual belief. After Obama belief may be hard to come by, but "pre-belief," in the form of need, is thriving.

    • Looks like MJ Rosenberg's theory that human rights/justice/fairness (Dems, in theory) are more important than Israel (Repubs, unequivocally) to Jewish voters is about to get a field test.

    • Agree. OTOH support for Palestine/Palestinians is starting, to me anyway, to be positioned as the "Master Switch" for any politician wanting to signal to voters that they are an ACTUAL agent of change. That they will actually FIGHT for the best interests of the people who voted for them. An anti-Obama. More Teddy Roosevelt-ish (fitting, as we're in another "Guilded Age"). The "switch" is close but still just out of reach.

      The Ferguson - Palestine connection is one example of how that positioning is being realized.

  • Yes, Virginia, there is a liberal Zionist
    • This suggests Obama's move to normalize relations with Cuba may have had an underlying Israeli driver.

      We can't just do what's right. We have to do what's good for Israel and if it so happens to be right great cover.

      Please say it ain't so.

      OTOH, this move could make it harder for Israeli business by increasing competition in Cuba.

      Thanks Kathleen. Interesting story. I hope someone expands on the drivers and genesis of Obama's decision, and the Israeli connection if there is one.

    • Shavit threw open the sluice-gate of Israel's malevolent mythology and arrogantly thought he could control what came out.

      His media facilitators were/are even more arrogant in believing they could broadcast all that malevolence as sort of a "We did all this bad stuff, but we turned out all right!" (with a strong undercurrent of "Didn't we??")...and no one would notice both the bad stuff AND the fact that, generations later, it's still going on.

      I had an engineer friend who used to say, "Mother Nature is a hard-hearted bitch with a sick sense of humor." That pretty much applies here in the disintegration of the liberal Zionist belief set.

  • Caroline Glick melts down with European diplomats
    • "So if Europe has this pathological need, according to Glick, why doesn’t Israel just completely cut relations with Europe? Issue solved.

      Yeah really, Ellen.

      "Give us your money [and UNSC veto], back off, and STFU!" would seem to be the [increasingly public] mantra of the Israeli ruling elite.

      I'll never understand how a nothing country of 7M people, 5000 miles from anywhere, can make that claim. And more remarkably, make it stick. And even more remarkably, make it stick for generations.

      Someday someone will explain it to us all.

    • Would Glick be this visually condescending if this conference had been held in Copenhagen?

      Or alternately, what is it with Israeli society that encourages/condones this behavior?

    • Minority Exceptionalism.

      I don't know, Kay, but it (Glick's behavior/expressions) may be a sign of how wrong it's all gone, and how far wrong it's all gone.

      US spox (1M dead Arabs in hand) wouldn't dare even show up for such an event, yet she's there defending the Israeli indefensible. Like she needs to (re: feels/is compelled to).

      I sense that even true-believers like Glick sense that it's (Israeli impunity/US carte-blanche) slipping away. Even and especially outside Israel.

    • And, massively ironically, the person (herownself) that she expects international law to protect.

    • Hi just. I misunderstood why you wanted the Edit function. My bad.

      I'm still amazed. :)

    • You don't have to be serious all the time, just. Just sayin'.

      It was appreciated.

      There is a farsiclal theme to Israel and its (and its supporters) constant twisting of literally everything that makes some whimsy inevitable. You can't always reply seriously or you would be/go insane.

      I'm amazed you respond so seriously and so often as you do. Creds.

    • Looks are completely different from expressions, eh?

    • Given Israel's seemingly miraculous ability to circumvent it, and that Glick is an organ of the GoI, her characterization of IL as "imaginary" is an indication of Israel's gift to the world -- the complete evisceration of international law, including "Never Again!" (wherever it's codified).

      It's hard to/I can't imagine a sadder thing.

    • Yep. Thanks Annie.

      Great vid snips too! Completely indicative. Well worth the time...

    • yech (y), argh (a), blech (b), yab could/should be a universal designator of Glick's kind of "stuff."

      Maybe a new twitter acronym like smh.

  • A Knesset without Arab parties?
    • The problem is, Newclench, that when YOU argue for merger, you argue for an exclusionist merger on the part of the Jewish-Israeli left to avoid any possible Palestinian-Israeli inclusion in a government.

      If you're actually an Israeli "lefty" bent on making things right in Israel, you can't be about "overlap." You have to be about total inclusion/immersion in something new.

      Scary, isn't it?

    • To be clear, I'm looking for leaders as a sign of change. People who will galvanize their constituencies toward a new mechanism for change and get the job done. I don't see them at the moment, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

      Same for the US. At the moment a Webb/Warren ticket holds promise, at least to me, but I have no illusions that Webb wouldn't be suppressed with a made-up Dean-like "scream" moment (link to; about 20:00), and Warren has already shown herself to be subservient on this issue. But together they have potentially uniting strengths. Left-right and up-down.

      There's got to be that same combination of potentially alloying, but not necessarily best buds, people in Israel. There simply must be.

    • But Giles, they CAN have a voice. Particularly merged, and along with an activated, "nowhere else to go," honestly change-seeking Jewish-Israeli Left. The alternative is to give up. Give up any possible influence on their own destiny.

      For both constituencies.

      It's like any GoI actually talking to Hamas to resolve, well, anything. It simply hasn't been tried.

      Why give up?

    • Well, change everything in Israeli politics, assuming Israel is actually a democracy. Heh.

      Still, call the bluff!

    • Great report, Allison. Much to consider and/or understand. Implications galore...


    • I hate saying what others "need" to do, but Palestinian-Israelis need to suspend their disbelief/cynicism/experience AND merge AND vote with 100% turnout. Now is the time.

      That would give them 20% of Knesset seats. Maybe more depending on Jewish-Israeli turnout (i.e. less than 100%). It would change everything in Israel politics, imho.

      And while I'm at it, Palestinian East Jerusalemites "should" start considering accepting the annexation of all of Jerusalem in order to vote in municipal elections. It's been a while since I looked at the demographics, and maybe the voting "offer" (hasbara/international PR; if it was ever sincere) has been withdrawn and/or the settlement enterprise has raised radical Jewish-Israeli participation to a level that precludes meaningful Palestinian political participation, but what are the options at this point?

  • Bypassing Israel: The necessity of recognition in European capitals
    • @JLD- Also from Falk:

      The challenge for all is to consider anew how these two peoples can manage to live together within the space of historic Palestine.

      Mooser posted a link to a Uri Avnery article about a new way to approach the "manage to live together" problem: link to

      I think Avnery is spot on, though [maybe hopelessly] optimistic. Though [maybe hopelessly] optimistic with a vision AND a path.

      I mean that there is no country in the world that celebrates Jewish holidays as a principal (as an example of the need for some distinct state-based and/or political identity. I get that. But as seafoid points out so well and so often, Zionism is horribly anachronistic, violent, and doomed in post WWII (or any cursory moral/egalitarian thought). It's a terrible (can't overstate that) way to go about it.

      How to merge those two seemingly diametric conditions/needs? Avnery's approach.

      It will succeed, imho.

    • I think it needs to be stressed, if not clarified, that this wave of Euro impatience and/or acceptance of Palestine, the state, does not, per my understanding of Hostage's comments on the matter, abrogate any rights or claims Palestinians have wrt Israel even within/under a one state outcome/inevitibility.

      Summary (I'm still looking for the IL/IHL cites in his comments):

      August 1, 2014, 3:52 pm

      I guess ‘better late than never’ fits here.

      I certainly think so. Accepting the existence of the occupied state of Palestine for the purposes of prosecuting Israel for the crime of apartheid has nothing to do with accepting the viability of the existing territorial entity or the finality of a two state solution. In fact, the Zionists may prefer a one state solution to mounting a defense of Israel’s persecution of Arabs at home and abroad. The notion that the two countries borders are disputed cuts both ways and can be used to open the whole can of worms in either the ICC or the ICJ.

      - See more at: link to

      link to

      Go for it, Europe.

    • Thanks, JLD.

      The United States is, as usual, maneuvering in such a way as to avoid seeming an outlier by vetoing such a resolution, even if it has less stringent language, and asks the PA to postpone the vote until after the Israeli elections scheduled for 2015.

      There's always an election somewhere (in the alcoholic vein of it's always 5:00 somewhere) to "sensibly" argue/demand/preclude the "right" timing for Palestine to pursue its legitimate claims.

  • As Kerry and UN press on occupation, Netanyahu sees a 'diplomatic assault'
  • Israeli extremists charged in arson of Jewish-Arab school wanted to 'raise intermarriage issue to top of agenda'
    • Jerry! Jerry! Jerry!

      Yep, Springer could jumpstart Act II of his career in Israel. So much raw material right out there in the open. The show would produce itself.

  • Liberal Zionists seek to strip Naftali Bennett of freedom to travel in hope of saving two-state solution
    • Now if this group started clamoring for the reinstatement of Haneen Zoabi to her rightful elected place in the Knesset, they might have some consistency and therefore some smidge of credibility. As it is, not so much.

      To Mooser, a few days ago I wrote that Uri Avnery is an optimist. I should have added that at least, and significantly, he is looking in the right direction -- the future. He's the exact polar opposite of these guys, imho.

  • Five settlers board a bus and terrorize driver in Jerusalem
    • Thanks, just. I wonder if Elizabeth Warren is aware that the tyranny of the majority that she witnessed firsthand on her recent visit, is now institutionalized.

      When is Israel going to be recognized and/or serve as the negative example for governing? So many examples of what NOT to do come from there (or if you're an Israeli, are invented there).

      Heh, I wish Bennett would threaten to withhold Israeli police training. Whatever would we do without it?

  • Are pro-Israel groups afraid of the US public?
  • Saban confronts Bennett: 'Are you willing to cut commercial ties with Europe?'
    • Hi Mooser. Yes, I was trying to agree with you without using the word "military." It'll be something that limits participation and/or ends notional Israeli "democracy" while enabling Israel's further militarization. Soviet-style one party elections or banana republic figurehead civilian control, or some form of a change of political state.

      Avnery is an optimist.

    • Argh... to what happens if they do it (end of the Israel experiment). SHB: "to what happens if they DON'T do it (end of the Israel experiment)."

      And you're right, Mooser. A coup may be the inevitable outcome in any circumstance.

    • @Bornajoo- I agree with you, FWIW, except that the fear-imperative trade off for embracing Avnery's new politics has, imho, changed from what happens if they do it (fear of ostracization), to what happens if they do it (end of the Israel experiment).

      I think that's a pretty profound shift in the Israeli political situation, but probably not profound or compelling enough to make it happen.

      One possibly doable prerequisite/sign of change is that Palestinian-Israelis would have to ditch their cynicism and vote at a near 100% turnout. If there are rumblings to that effect over there, there might be a chance to re-form the power structure along the lines Avnery suggests. It would move the "Arab" lists from near oblivion/de-listing to 20%+/- of the Knesset seats (depending on what simultaneous Jewish turnout might be).

    • Great article, Mooser. Thanks.

    • +10, lysias!

      From the bowels of the Israeli political swamp comes the call to do something about an accelerating BDS movement.

      The answer, by acclamation, seems to have been, "Send out Naftali to threaten everyone that buys our products!" If people/customers didn't have a non-political reason to avoid Israeli products, they sure do now.

      Oddly, if that doesn't get him elected as the next Israeli PM, I don't know what will. Sarcasm or actual dynamic, you make the call. I'm going with actual dynamic because he seems to be proclaiming the belief and will of the electorate.

      The other interesting bit about Bennett doing this in a public, international forum is what is the background and genesis of such a pronouncement. This is not normal or even rational behavior. Is Israel so used to getting its way in back room manipulations that this did seem either normal or rational to "dangle" publicly?

      Israel gets political people to go against their own fiduciary/constituent self-interest all the time, and has for decades. Has that manipulative mechanism/technique become so "normalized" in Israel political circles that pols like Bennett can't resist trying it out on (or think it can be transposed to) more moral popular and/or more unflinchingly rational business sentiment?

      Seems like it.

      In any event, I think Bennett's implied threat/tirade really pulls back the curtain on just how Israel gets its way so often, and the limits to their approach to doing so - threaten dislocation (or worse). They simply can't go public with it. It doesn't work (in fact has the opposite effect, which I believe was where Saban's reaction came from). It (the manipulation/redefinition of self-interest to suit Israel's needs) has to be done in private, compounded by money, to a small, easily-corruptible set of people.

      There is a limit to Israeli influence -- the political box canyon of public, distributed, rational decision-making. How to get the private Israeli manipulations out into that space is still an unanswered question, but at least we know effect if they are moved in that direction.

      As always, sorry to drone on. I think this was an important moment.

    • Bingo, American. All which shows just how close Israel is to implosion.

      I read Bennett's words as those of someone with a very tenuous grasp on reality (the reality you explain). It's like he is so far into believing his own self-aggrandizing ["We're indispensable, and we'll hurt you to prove it!"; like that isn't the definition of political self-immolation] BS that he is within a gnat's breath of going full-on maniacal crazy talk, but there's just a faint niggle of the reality of global substitutes that prevents him from letting go.

      My guess is that in a few months that niggle will be completely submerged.

      It's weird, and it would be funny if so many people weren't going to be hurt or killed because Israel is just that crazy.

  • Israel has no answer to BDS, Barghouti tells packed hall at Columbia

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