Commenter Profile

Total number of comments: 2647 (since 2009-12-08 10:00:12)


One summer in Germany, a while back, I met many returning US kibbutzim. The exuberance and energy was affecting. Influenced by that, a few months later in college I started to physically protest/jeer from the Israeli perspective. On one occasion we all headed to the Cleveland City Club to hear and jeer Chomsky. Between our interruptions (which he handled gracefully with a "noted" and went on), I heard him speak about water theft. For some reason, being as swept up in the Uris-like glow about Israel as I was, I had never heard (listened?) or asked about anything remotely disturbing about Israel. Afterward I started asking basic questions like, "If this is true, how can one people do this to another people, and we cheer it on?" and got few even marginally responsive answers. All the contradictions between Israel-reality and Israel-myth that appear here, were present even then. The veil was pierced and my perspective flipped almost immediately. It was the '70s, Kent State, and we were supposed to be FOR civil rights. FOR everybody. I felt grossly stupid and more than a little betrayed. My former physical tactics and experience mirror what goes on here an in the larger net world. I understand the desperate need (by Israel) to clamp the lid down hard (and keep it clamped) on the deeply troubling reality of everyday Palestinian life. It also suggests that just one little glimmer of reality that gets through can make a difference, one person at a time. One never knows which glimmer that might be...

Showing comments 2647 - 2601

  • 9 things the American media isn't telling you about Israel/Palestine
    • Unbelievable, except it's all too believable.

      Blame everyone but the trigger-pullers themselves.

      You've said it for a while now, seafoid. Zionists simply cannot diagnose their own sickness, let alone grasp the implications/virulence. And woe be to those who try to point out any of it.

    • In order for "humans" to be "shields" they have to be seen as human by the opponent. There has to be some reluctance to simply kill them without a thought.

      No such reluctance (i.e. humanity) exists in Israel. Therefore the contention is reversible. Palestinians cannot possibly be "shields" because Israel demonstrably and explicitly regards them as meat.

      I wish media would pose the question in the reversed sense. Just once.

  • How many would be alive today if Obama had not quashed Goldstone Report?
    • Heh. I don't believe he has YET realized that there are no political benefits to capitulation. But I AM pretty sure that everyone who sits across the table from him knows full well his pathological need to compromise and simply backpedals him into accepting their own "wish-list" positions.

    • @Donald- Yep. I mourn the political generation lost because of that cultism and subsequent betrayal. So much political energy squandered so completely. The things that might have been accomplished (like something constructive on this problem)... He made himself ineffective by isolating himself, imho. Sad.

      Hillary would cement that process of betrayal and isolation, on every front.

    • What gives a country of 8M people, living on the dole, such an overblown sense of its own importance that it feels justified in slinging insults at a rising diplomatic/global presence of 200M people and 10X the economic clout (re: market)?

      Seems like Israel likes to hide behind mommy's skirts a lot.

      Spot on about the Goldstone Report. Two words: Rahm Emanuel. I wish there was something predictive about that, in a positive sense. Lessons learned, moral self-criticism internalized, and all that. But that soon to be iconic photo of the vote count (showing US in glaring red as the only NO vote) authorizing a new UN investigation says otherwise.

      I never know whether to ask what could possibly make Obama go so completely against his own morality or does Obama have any morals. I guess that's the stuff of future history, but meanwhile kids by the hundreds, the age of his daughters, are getting their heads blown off by our BFF.

  • Attacks on demonstrators in Rome
    • I wonder how many of the cops in France and Italy were trained in or by Israel. It would explain the way they seem to prefer to face and the presumption about where the danger lies.

      The commonality of "side-taking" at these events and that totally unwarranted fan removal (for waving a Palestinian flag at an ISR-HON game) is disturbing. If Israel training is the common element, I don't know, something something, bad words. Importing Israeli racism to the US isn't quite worse than what's going on in Gaza, but it clearly leads straight to it. Bad. Bad. Bad.

      And its still the worst possible situation to have a very tiny minority violently and openly beating up on others. Only bad things (i.e. overwhelming/disproportional reciprocal violence) can come of it. WILL come of it.

  • Kerry is off the Israel bandwagon
    • OTOH, the fact she got Palestinians to suspend their profound disbelief and sign off on the 2012 pack o' lies iteration to conform to israel's demands probably was a "triumph of diplomacy."

      Maybe it will be the last time Palestinians get "triumphed." HRC's 2012 effort sure is making it harder for Kerry to contrive another fake resolution this time and/or for Israel to ram their petulant adamacy home.

  • Pro-Israel Facebook page is titled, 'Death to Dianna Buttu'
  • Which crowded cities can you fire into?
  • Daily protests rage for Gaza across the West Bank 
    • Agree, Kay. And Clinton is a perfect example of the tragic irony I mentioned. Didn't she and Bill meet during anti-war protests?

      It IS depressing, but not over.

    • The theme song for any "pro-Israel" rally. "All we are say-ing is give war a chance [again, and again, and again, and again]."

      I find it tragically ironic that, per the poll results, the over-50s that support this slaughter were probably the very ones singing "give peace a chance" during Viet Nam.

      Normal people will wise up. Per the same polls, they are wising up. The difference between the hype and the reality is too vast for reality to remained bottled up - though too many dead innocents in the meantime.

  • Iraqis flee Mosul under threat from ISIS
    • Yes, yes. Please let's destabilize Syria some more, Mr. President. Keep them occupied with rebels in the south and west while ISIS runs amok, gains oil resources (sells it to Israel, per Walid), mutilates women, blows up churches, forces us to send troops BACK into Iraq, and generally remains the proud recipient of US advanced weapons and Saudi largesse.

      What could make more sense than that? I mean when the "moderate" rebels take over Syria they will undoubtedly be more aggressive in fighting ISIS. Won't they?

      Nuts. Guaranteed perpetual war and death. Is that another facet of the Israelification of the US?

  • Controversial, illegal, and documented: Israeli military strategies in Gaza
    • You're confusing tunnels to Egypt with tunnels to Israel. Who in their right mind claims the tunnels to Israel were built to alleviate the siege [by Israel]?

      The siege was a collective punishment effort that started before tunnels were built into Egypt.

      Chicken = Israel Siege
      Egg = Tunnels to Egypt
      Angry Chicks = Tunnels to Israel for military purposes

      Ho hum is about right.

    • @DaBakr:

      A) Nonsense.

      B) Complete nonsense.

      C) What are the tunnels "there for?" You know, skip the implication. State it. Assuming your implication is "terrorism" why were they NOT used for that when Palestinian fighters were camped out in Israeli towns for several hours?

      D) Why doesn't Israel find and destroy the tunnels before they are completed and/or on their side of the border?

      You can't answer any of those questions and make sense so you accuse and accuse again. Fact is Palestinians used their tunnels for strictly military objectives. Tunnels!™ is a made-up issue. An after-the-fact, red-faced rationalization for a killing spree.

      Hell, it's a non-issue because they are so easily and completely preventable before the fact.

      Tunnels are so easily and completely preventable that you, or at least normal people, would have to ask why is Israel letting Khamas!™ build them into Israel in the first place? Leaving aside the human cost to Israel (which seems to be your only concern) of a cynical, purely politically-motivated invasion, for the price of one Merkeva tank they could detect and destroy every single one of them, forever.

    • Thanks, lysias. Interesting. Even MJ Rosenberg agrees that Israel has lost the war.

      From his email feed:

      And no matter what happens from this point on, Israel lost the war. Not even Netanyahu's primary goal in starting this war, toppling the Palestinian unity government, has been achieved. Hamas, that awful organization that was teetering on the brink of collapsing in Gaza, is now stronger than ever.

      Even worse for Israel is that its image has been destroyed. Netanyahu did not reckon on the internet. He thought he could control the story, that it would remain the story of a nation that had no choice but to fight back against kidnappers and terrorists. Instead, it became the story of a nation that bombs hospitals and kills children with abandon.

    • That's yet another completely hollow argument, DaBakr. When given the choice of fighting back and dying or lying down and dying (as you/Israel seem to desire or at least believe is the only "peaceful"/non-terrorism option), NOBODY would choose to lie down and die. So what Gaza Palestinians choose to do is what every rational person would do in their place given decades of occupation, death, and deprivation.

      Your root problem is NOT that Hamas and the people of Gaza choose to fight back. Your root problem is that WHY they make that choice is being increasingly discussed so that normal people can see the hollowness of Israeli PR and make better-informed judgements on the real nature of the conflict. Your unsupported accusations here betray your fear of that happening. It's more seepage than flood at the moment, but anyone that has seen a dam or levee collapse knows the process.

      NOBODY is denying the tunnels exist. But yeah, the reasons for their existence are real and profound. Address the reasons. Stop killing Palestinians on a regular basis. Open the sea approaches to Gaza (screw the Israel and Egypt routes). Stop stealing their natural gas resources. Let them fish as agreed (multiple times). Live and let live. The Golden Rule, FFS. It's The Rule for a reason.

      As to "preliminary engineering stats," what a joke. A cartoon exercise and assertion (just like B-NET). State your assumptions and provide the calculations.

      I've seen "preliminary engineering stats" (Note: It's calculations, not statistics; that usage alone means you're almost certainly making this up.) using different assumptions and context that suggest exactly the opposite. That a modestly reinforced tunnel or two has no meaningful effect on Gaza reconstruction. The amount of resources required are down in the "noise" wrt the amount of resources needed/used to rebuild Gaza. A blip. A wall here and there. Less reinforcement against explosions for hospitals (after all who would bomb a hospital, eh?). See, I can play that game as well. Specific, discussable evidence is required.

  • Dr. Kristol's curriculum: US 'special responsibilities' include 'ancient longings' of Jewish nationalists
  • Israel's actions 'unjustified' in eyes of women, non-whites, Dems, indy's, and those under 50 -- Gallup
    • Great perspective, Stephen Schenfield.

    • Bingo, adele. Palikari has no point and may even be an illustration of The Problem.

    • Great catch, Sycamores. Gallup has always (at least in my 8 years of awareness) been a media effectiveness poll. They used to have an Iran question a few years ago that was prefaced with: "Based upon what you have heard or read...[question]?"

      This use of Hamas strikes me as the same manipulation. Subtext: Is the message getting out that "Hamas is a violent terror organization?"

      Agree with your and tree's observations too.

  • 'Israel is wrong by any moral standard' -- Robinson says, as US media pile up
    • Yeah, Israel's criminality is a ratings bonanza. It's evokes such pathos. Probably more pathos than TWO missing blonde white girls.

      When are these media businesses going to realize that and loose the dogs (i.e. reporters, resources, and air time). Make some money, media empires.

  • NY Times reports source of UNRWA school attack is unclear even though Israel said they did it
    • Yep, DS. The IDF seems to have wedged itself between their initial habituated reaction of, "They're just Pals. Who cares?" and, "This might look bad. Better say something techno-babble-y."

  • Hamas mimics Hezbollah tactics, and no one will have stability till blockade is lifted
    • @seafoid- Agree, sadly. The ICC is political. Cold as this is to say, the Palestinians would never get a hearing if things just "bumped along" under the radar (10 killings a week). Israel's bloodlust changed that. Two data points (2008, 2012) form a line, three establish a pattern/trend. A pattern is, at least potentially, more actionable.

      Sad part is they may still not get a hearing, but the PLO seems to see an opening. What else can they do?

    • @can- I guess I'm suggesting this latest Israeli slaughterfest may have changed him or those around him. Actually taking the concrete steps to go to the ICC is a meaningfully different attitude than three weeks ago. It suggests an epiphany. A then and now comparison.

      Your description of the PA leadership is accurate, imho. To me that says that the epiphany - the realization of the total futility of the former "embrace the carrots" strategy - may be fleeting.

      So which is going to have more effect on an ultimate just outcome, personal financial gains/the illusion of the Ramadan bubble or this Gaza slaughter? The PA may backslide but the realization that the horror in Gaza is never going to end unless they do something may kick their asses just enough to propel them forward.

      It's pretty hard to tell what the stronger influence will be over time.

    • Great article, Annie. Thanks.

    • I think whether Abbas is full of it or not rests upon whether the PA keeps beating its own people/demonstrators with sticks.

      They've apparently decided to to accede to the Rome Statute as precursor for they themselves going to the ICC (i.e. they've concluded that no one is going to present the Palestinian case for them; itself an indication of what Palestine is up against just to get there, let alone persevere).

      Abbas has been trying to thread a microscopic needle with a rope, rightly or wrongly or conveniently. The next few weeks will show if he/PA have received any durable clarity of purpose.

  • Gaza massacre is generating ideological crisis in American Zionists
    • Thanks, michelle. I use that allegory a lot but I never knew it was a poem. Cool.

    • @lysias- Without an Israeli Constitution, I wonder if Brandeis even could apply that thinking to Israel. Law is so malleable, if not outright situational there.

    • "Presumably the counter-demonstration would have been far larger."

      That and all the pix coming out of Gaza would make a "pro-Israel" demonstration a "pro-slaughter" demonstration to the vast majority of normal passersby, at the height of DC tourist season (a little souvenir to share with the folks back home; the Doomsday scenario).

  • Avishai says we misrepresented his views
    • The training process is long and arduous, but pretty soon you just ring the bell and... drool happens.

      I'm not even sure the Avishai's out there are all that aware of what's happening to them and/or around them. This exchangw really seem to be a case of direct stimulus-response.

    • Agree, W.Jones. It seems more like a "I got caught." reaction than a "mischaracterization" reaction.

      I wonder if Avishai got "Goldstoned" (or felt he was being set up as a target for "Goldstoning") because Phil cited him even semi-approvingly, and had to distance himself with strange, out of phase, hair-on-fire objections to avoid that fate.

  • 9 Reasons why Israel is under rocket attack 
  • Palestinians build tunnel to attack Israeli kindergarten, Netanyahu says
    • Yep, Kay. Reversing a safety judgement by a federal agency to benefit a foreign country (Israel, who else?) is new low.

      A) I demonstrates and confirms the depth of Israeli control (yes, control) of our government to everyone, but particularly to people who wouldn't ordinarily be paying attention.

      B) Which agency is next? FDA on drug safety? Or maybe all the other regulatory agencies have already succumbed and the FAA was the last holdout. It stinks either way.

    • Yeah, talknic. And maybe to continue your reasoning, why kill 200 trapped Gazans to eliminate the tunnel "threat" when they could be so easily collapsed on the Israeli side?

      NONE of it adds up.

      I've always felt that news critters weren't stupid, just "influenced" and/or directed. But I'm not so sure anymore.

    • Exactly, oldgeezer. One more is all it would take, and it IS a legitimate military target.

      Heck, just declare it a legitimate military priority/target and don't fire any rockets at all. The Palestinians have already demonstrated the capability. What insurance company in the world is going to insure $250M aircraft flying into that risk situation?

    • NYPD "controls" NYC. If they didn't want any murders there, they could stop them, ja?


      "When Israel allows armed settlers to commit crimes, we rightly blame Israel for their actions. The same standards should apply to Hamas."

      Well when "we" blame Hamas, "we" kill 700 people and counting. The same standards should apply to settlers and their families, no? Doubly because settlers kill more Palestinians in a year than Hamas has ever killed. You good with that?

      And the old (and I mean OLD!) derived-in-a-vacuum "Vermont National Guard..." deep thoughts (and all its variants) is such total, non-sequitur, nonsense. Yeah, you're right they would be, but for the analogy to be even remotely relevant there would have to be a generations-long, violent Canadian Occupation of an impoverished and chaotic US involved (and a list of about ten other conditions). I'm just not seeing that anywhere, yet you all keep using that as a "gotcha" analogy like it means something. It doesn't. #freeadvice

    • Heh. That's what burkas and baby carriages are for, donchaknow.

      "What are these guys doing with their time?

      Semi-seriously, "focus grouping" and/or "think-tanking" who to blame and how to do it. More seriously, I think they really do let their hasBS efforts obscure their need to conceptualize how to actually defend. I think they think that explaining it all away/impunity preservation is the ultimate defense method. The impunity veil may be (hopefully) in the process of being, so all they're left with as a defense method is either slaughter or some distant gray-beard memory of what used to be important.

      Well, that's my calcified IDF Theory of Everything, anyway. Well, that and the dulling effects of true zealotry on critical thinking. FWIW.


    • I think they "get it" perfectly well, Kay. They don't care because it suits their "mow the lawn" PR/"keep the aid flowing" strategy.


      Thanks for the link.

    • Yep, abc. It's always a cartoon, isn't it. Never a photo.

    • I think a mile-long tunnel is totally "doable."

      The question to me is why they weren't detected. Even if you go ultimate low-tech, all that would have to be done is to drive some re-bar into the ground at close intervals, and listen for a "twang." Cheap, effective, but miraculously not done by the IDF.

      What's the real IDF objective? It sure doesn't seem to be protecting Israeli citizens. More like IDF as propaganda mill.

  • 'Slate' blames Birthright for indoctrinating American Jew who was killed fighting for Israel
    • @ckg- Hostage and I went over this several months ago. Harf is parroting the selective case of generic "service." For that there is no presumption of renouncing citizenship because there is no empowerd loyalty oath involved.

      There IS a loyalty oath involved with commissioned officers so the presumption is (or would be should it ever be enforced) that they are relinquishing their citizenship by taking a specific oath of allegiance to a foreign government and serving in a fiduciary capacity. That's why Oren had to relinquish his US citizenship, as I understand it.

      The question is whether non-coms have to take a similar allegiance oath, and/or how far down the grades that might become significant enough to indicate a renunciation. Jeffrey Goldberg didn't have to give up his US citizenship as an IDF corporal, but does a (M/?) sergeant have to take the oath AND have enough fiduciary "command" (I know that's not the right word) responsibility for that oath to meet the legal criteria as an expression of intent to renounce.

      Hostage might just say, "NO...!" (I miss his insights/clarity.) but it's not as binary as Harf describes (mostly because she leaves out relevant info in making such categorical statements), imho.

      If I can find our discussion on this, I'll post a link.

    • @ckg- Keeping in mind that the US is still at war in Afghanistan, others are dying and being maimed so these disgusting people can go kill them some "palis." Despite what anyone thinks about what we're doing in Afghanistan, these people are traitors not heroes.

      And I don't know what kind of oath one has to swear to become an NCO in Israel (the dead guys were both sergeants), but there's a reasonable chance they had to swear loyalty which means there's an equally reasonable chance they have relinquished their US citizenship (i.e. are no longer US citizens). Scum.

  • The deafening silence around the Hamas proposal for a 10-year truce
    • Shingo, "apologists for genocide" is starting to sound way too passive given their stridency about killing more Palestinians as a solution (final or otherwise). "Advocates for genocide" is more accurate at this point.

    • @JeffB- All that would be true, except that none of it is.

      Just this latest round, Hamas wasn't doing ANYTHING to Israel except signalling a willingness to moderate, and they get this slaughter in response.

      And that's just the last six weeks. Every violent exchange is instigated/provoked by Israel. It's just nuts how maniacally predictable they are. Israel will never stop killing Palestinians on its own accord.

    • Page: 26
  • 'Telegenically Dead': Israel’s crumbling media war
    • Spot on, tree. As eljay always points out they deflect by comparing Israel to the worst of the worst, obviously with the intent of a favorable comparison.

      You show that Israel is actually worse than the worst of the worst, relatively speaking.

      Another way to look at it is that Israel doesn't kill as many people as Assad or the rebels for lack of trying. It's because there just aren't enough people to kill.

    • 600 dead in Gaza is the equivalent of 90,000 dead in the US (600*150). In TWO F'N WEEKS. 5,000 wounded is like 750,000 here.

      The impact on people, infrastructure, resources, and society in Gaza is unfathomable.

      Further, if they were simply left alone to recover they would be lucky to the point of being blessed. But they're going to be hounded and hindered at every step of their healing. That too is incomprehensible in its depravity.

      On the Israeli side, 60 dead in two weeks is like 2,400 dead here. That's a hell of a price to pay for a cynical exercise in political opportunism.


      Just to be clear, drawing equivalences is not an attempt to inflate the already tragic death toll. A single death is a tragedy, anywhere. It does underscore impact a help uninvolved people understand 'this' and begin to ask themselves the contextualized question, "What if 'this' happened to me and mine?"

    • McClatchy is a national treasure.

  • ‘We have nothing left to lose. I would rather die with my family under the rubble of our house than have a humiliating truce’: Palestinian youth demand justice
    • Hi Kay. I'd like to see the humanitarian aid purchased in the US and delivered by US Navy cruiser to the Gaza port. Screw the Israeli Occupation Industry and open the borders (or at least make the point that they can be opened).

      It seems those are two of the things Gazans are fighting and dying for. We/US could show them that there is a proverbial light at the end of their generations-long tunnel.

      Israel would not be involved, at all. No crossings to open (and capriciously close), no "coordination" with Egypt, no nothing. Rockets would end. Hamas/IJ would moderate or go away. Etc...

      Win. Win. Win. It's almost magical in its elegance and potency as an actual entire to a solution.

    • Too kind, just. It's these people Pam interviewed who are brilliant in an incomprehensibly courageous sort of way.

      Thanks for the quote. I haven't quite figured out the mobile method yet.

    • One reason solving this issue is so important is because it unlocks the path and gives a means and energy for tackling the other seemingly insurmountable issues "out there." Global and domestic.

    • Patrick Henry held the same view.

  • Netanyahu's latest 'cartoon evidence': racist image identifying Muslims with terror
    • I think that's what everyone is trying to point out, oldgeezer. If one uses the same single-function (meaning ANY military use means TOTAL military use) criteria for "legitimate" targeting that Israel uses on Gaza, EVERY structure in Israel becomes a "legitimate" target.

      The hasbara can't cope.

    • Lazy. Spoiled. Rotten, waiting for/dreading a puff of political wind. Just a puff (or is that a "poof") might do.

    • And you know, MDM, with ground-penetrating radar, ultra-sensitive geophones, and God knows what other tech is ou there, it would sure seem to be impossible to tunnel 2m into Israel, let alone 2km, without the IDF detecting it.

      They must be completely incompetent, or something.

    • Yeah, Sumud. "Why don't they come out and fight us?" has been a hasbara refrain for years. Now that they are, Israel doesn't seem to much like the results.

      Israel is like a trust-fund baby of a country. Oh wait, it IS a trust-fund baby of a country.

    • "Terror Tunnels?" Palestinian fighters literally camped out in Israeli towns and didn't harm a single civilian. Not one.

      Palestinians are changing the rules and Israel has been and still is wrong-footed. Or in a "pickle" as a wise person said here recently.

    • Yep. And this is why Israel loses the war. While Palestinians in Pam Bailey's article are developing the life and death philosophy and discipline required to free themselves, Israel puts all its energy into developing new media euphemisms for slaughter and training cadres to "share" them on a global scale.

      It's the difference between a beech and a begonia in terms of long-term viability.

  • CNN headline: "100 people killed today in Israel, Gaza fighting"
  • Massacre in Gaza: At least 60 killed in Shuja'iyeh, over 60,000 in UN shelters
    • Sorry to double you, just. The vid contains some more nuggets and is uncharacteristically emotional. Even Palestinian stoics like Asrawi are at their wits end.

    • I don't know, Walid. That's just what she said. I hope it's a real thing.

    • Good point, just. It could be another example/version of the celebrity tweet and retract tactic. It tells millions that they're not feeling this way in isolation and/or that they're not crazy.

      Even though it looks flighty, the tactic has the capacity to connect and support tens of millions of like-minded people. We may be seeing the results in the startling number of people at the protests everywhere.

    • Hanan Asrawi [sp] said today on ABC that the "decision had been taken" by the PLO to accede to the Rome Statute as and the ICC.

      I'll try to get the link.

  • Palestinians celebrate report that Hamas captured Israeli soldier
    • Great point, Annie. As long as Net's use of Palestinian slaughter to shore up his government was cost free (zero value of Palestinian life) he could benefit from it. Now that dead Israelis are going to number in the tens from his cynical/deadly opportunism, there's going to be a reckoning there.

  • 'Washington Post' exhibits naked double standard in Israeli, Palestinian deaths (and injuries)
  • Nobel peace laureates and celebrities call for military embargo on Israel
    • I respect you all, but would you please give the book-length Chomsky discussions a rest. For about a year? He's a great man, his insights are intriguing, maybe even challenging, and instructive, but he's just not THAT relevant to current events, and we lost Hostage in a big IAMRITE! fight over Chomsky minutiae.


  • Dwight Howard should be thanked for showing the price of standing up for Palestine -- Zirin
    • Agree with Zirin. We're starting to see more of these "tweet and release" solidarity tweets. I think it's a strategy. The sentiment gets expressed to MILLIONS who then carry it forward. I think it's very effective. Mark Ruffalo just did it too.

      And then there's Selena Gomez and John Cusack, who didn't delete, in fact added to their original sentiment. That's a whole 'nuther level.

      Thanks for the article, Susie.

  • Israeli police ransack Tariq Abu Khdeir family home and arrest relatives in apparent revenge raid
    • LOL! Hagee/CUFI would love to buy it and burn it.

    • @Jenin- It really is a deep character flaw, innit? Question is whether it's a permanent malignancy or a treatable condition.

      I hope your friends are treatable/educable.

    • Yeah. What are the odds of it happening to you, right?

      We're all learning right along with you, Jenin. Even cynics like me. And I hate to say it (but at least I recognize it and can manage it) cynicism is turning to malice.

      Better days.

  • Why I, a Palestinian-American Muslim, went to the White House Iftar and what I learned
    • @AlGhorear- I hope someone there asked him that question directly. Or Iran? And Dermer as well. It would be great to hear their non-answers.

      These people are too smart to "not get it." This had to be intentional. But why? What did Obama gain by doing this?

  • Mohyeldin's boss at NBC rallied 'Jewish passion' for Israel when 'it is physically threatened'
  • And now a word from our Democratic Party standard bearer
    • Agree. "Unless it changes"...

    • @Giles- Yep. Beyond that, her cowardice on this means her whole set of attractive positions/positioning are nothing more than words. Kinda like Obama (not that he was all that attractive).

  • 'We are moving from Iron Dome to an iron fist': Israel launches ground invasion of Gaza
    • I saw an unsupported report on flechette use. Did you see anything on that, Ellen?

    • Don't know if anyone's seen this and I don't know how durable it is but:

      WASHINGTON, D.C. -- The Green Party of the United States is calling for an immediate ceasefire in the current exchange of missiles between Israeli and Palestinian forces, negotiation for a just and peaceful resolution to the conflict, an end to Israel's occupation of Palestinian Territories and human rights violations, repeal of apartheid policies in Israel, and establishment of one democratic state for all in Israel-Palestine.

      "We are appalled that the Obama Administration endorsed Operation Protective Edge. The White House must lead the rest of the world in bringing international pressure for a ceasefire, aid for civilian populations in the line of fire, observance of international law, and a just peace in the region with an end to Israel's illegal occupation and apartheid policies within the Occupied Palestinian Territories and Israel," said Dr. Justine McCabe, Connecticut Green and member of the Green Party's International Committee (link to

      link to

      Well the highlighted part appeals to 67% of people in the US anyway.

      Needed some good news today.

    • Thanks lysias. I just tried to look that up. Israel is sinking deeper and deeper into the abyss, as we watch.

    • @NCINA- Ah Zionist humor. Well executed, madam.

      So do you go to childrens' funerals and laugh at the dead, or do you just teach your kids how to do it, sit back, and live in a state of constant vicarious hilarity?

  • 'Hamas... is putting their own people at risk' -- State Dep't on Israel killing 4 boys on Gaza beach
    • Good Lord! This is one very strange, gratuitously snide comment.

      What is wrong with you? Something sure is. Seriously. Or is it just that you got your war on now so you're blazing away in every conceivable direction drunk with the spirit of killing and domination? Go Team Israel: 200-1, looking to make it a rhetorical 201 using any means necessary.

      It's called kicking people when they're down. You know, like those thugs did to Tariq Abu Khdeir.

      Maybe the mods are tired, but then maybe this is yet another intentional glimpse into what makes a zio tick and Israel sick.

    • Aw hell. I hope he comes back.

      Thanks, eljay.

  • The human rights community's consensus: Israel is committing war crimes in Gaza
    • Where do Israelis hide their military command centers?

      In residential neighborhoods of Tel Aviv.

  • To my fellow American Jews
    • Aren't you erring too far in the other direction, Dan?

      Phil, reviewed a book here: link to which documented that Jewish-led labor unions were mobilized by the Israeli ambassador to get funding for Israel in '74. To me, labor leadership includes "ordinary Jews." So, at least in that case Israel had its bacon saved by ordinary Jews. If there had been more intra-Jewish disagreement at that level, at that time, we may not be in the current catastrophe. Israel may well have been contained then and now, as flowed forward.

      I know it's problematic to "what if" history to make a point. And you're right about a confluence of interests being in play (leaving the "who's the driver" game for another time). I guess I'd just use that one really big example of a pivotal point in which ordinary Jews played a huge role within that confluence. Flake off some that support and Israel doesn't get its resupply in '74.

      Maybe you/one can NOT say that grassroots Jewish disaffection with Israel would have made (or will make) all the difference in the world then, but I think you/one CAN say if what these guys are trying to do takes hold in the Jewish "community" it will change the basic dynamic considerably. It transforms the mix of required interests to make the Israel blank-check machine work.

      The question to me becomes whether or not there is a replacement for ordinary Jews within that mix. There may well be in the Christian Zios, but who knows?

      Great comment. Interesting stuff.

    • Thanks for sharing your path, Ms. Miller. Great article. I hope many follow your lead.

    • Yep, SK. Secret alliances become interlocking politics a century later. The same only different. And we can all see "it" coming in real time on the net, but there doesn't seem to be anything to be done about it. To me, it's a bit like the time dilution that happens during an accident.

      Fear is right. And a big dose of helplessness (I just got off Twitter, if that tells you anything.)

    • @Bob_Salad- Agree with your sentiment, but the assertion that dissenting Jewish voices should take precedence (I think that's what you meant) universally is premature.

      Certainly dissenting Jewish voices should be amplified to the greatest extent possible within the Jewish collective, and broadcast loudly and universally, but I'm not deferring my morality to any one or group that has been and/or is still so heavily constrained by communal "us-them" tradition. Collectively speaking, intra- Jewish dissent needs to reach and demonstrate a breadth, independence, maturity, and most importantly, a durability in all the above before it can lead on this issue, imho. This is not meant harshly or dismissively. Just the opposite in fact.

      Intra-Jewish dissent has to show its effect and resilience within its "community." Otherwise its too reversible to invest a lot in for the rest of us. What happened to Judge Goldstone is a perfect personal example, and J-Street's timidity and subsequent cram down is the perfect organizational example (tepid as their aspirations were to begin with). On the positive side, Mondoweiss is a perfect example of demonstrated durability.

      Having said that, Ms. Miller's efforts are courageous and righteous. If I ever get the chance or avenue to support her, I will in a heartbeat.

      FWIW. Peace.

  • Jet Blue incident shifts from anti-Semitic story to anti-Palestinian one
    • Bingo. Hopefully this story becomes an allegory for Gaza coverage.

    • But, but, but, doesn't Rosenberg have a right to defend herself? "Being a Jew?"

      And can you imagine being in the middle of a delivery and have this doctor find out you are for Palestinian rights? I wouldn't put my care in her hands. Are there more like this? Do I have to ask Jewish doctors what their feelings are on Palestinian rights before I trust them to give their full attention to my care?

      Zionism corrupts everything it touches.

  • Israeli strike kills four Palestinian children playing soccer on Gaza beach
  • Report: Hamas offers Israel 10 conditions for a 10 year truce
    • Interesting, Sycamores. That would be a huge win for the people of Gaza. But there's a win in there for Israel too because if Hamas agreed to this it would cleave Gaza from the WB in every meaningful political way. No longer could Hamas express unity by being the military counterthreat to ongoing Israeli viciousness in the WB.

      I wonder what'll be more important to Israel, having the Hamas pretext to trot as a violent distraction or sealing the deal (from the myopic/blinkered Israeli PoV) in the WB.

      Israel undoubtedly wants both, but it may have to choose this time.

    • Scary, lysias.

    • Heh. Press cover from the World Cup Final or devastating peak tourism season. Decisions, decisions. What's a Bibi to do?

    • BTW, there's a #TrySomethingElse hashtag on Twitter if it fits into anyone's view.

    • Great article, American. Thanks.

      Mark Perry was interviewed on PBS News Hour last night. He laid out an excellent recap of the situation with actual refreshing context. Margaret Warner looked befuddled, but didn't interrupt.

      But then Gwen Ifill recapped with a context-free, "Hamas rejects ceasefire." at the end of the show.

      Hopefully there will be more Mark Perry filtering into the Beltway discussion as the facts increasingly bubble up to negate/question the deadly CW.

    • @Penfold- Ouch!

    • @mondonut- Noobs reading this should know that Hamas' "profit" also means an end to [increasingly potent] rockets raining down on Israel. Forever.

      So, for noobs, what you are saying is that the Israeli body politic perceives that it has nothing to gain from solving this problem peacefully and durably and at the earliest opportunity! I think that's an accurate description of the Israeli policy. Thanks for the clarity.

    • Exactly, pjdude. These very reasonable demands are offered up as a [increasingly?] self-evident alternative to killing. If Israel rejects them as "non-starters" it makes it abundantly clear that killing is the Israeli desire. It's really hard to look at it (credibly) any other way.

      Hamas is offering Israel an obvious and credible alternative to killing. In a roundabout (maybe direct?) but f'd up, deadly Sophie's choice* sort of way, that's a position of strength. Or at least it might be if Israel didn't care so little about Palestinian life.

      *Suffer more killing now to maybe enter into an actual solution mode on this while the world is paying attention and sickened, or suffer the same amount of killing, ongoing, piecemeal, and unnoticed while the world looks away. Hell of a fucking choice.

  • Sullivan and Leveretts throw in the towel on two-state solution
    • I go back to that Gaza-unique MRSA article you posted a couple years ago, seafoid. And that the summer currents in the eastern Med flow north from Gaza to those beautiful Tel Aviv beaches.

      I fear something really bad (re: uncontrollable forces; bio?, Al-Aqsa?...) is going to happen. Hope not.

    • @tbk- You define a non-resolvable condition for moving on to Plan B. I pointed out the absurdity of that condition. But more, you don't seem to know or care that the perpetuation of the two-state farce involves killing Palestinians to prolong it. Israel uses the "safety" argument (usually manifested as "self-defense") as justification for killing Palestinians PRN. "Your" argument is Israel's argument.

      But you're right it doesn't matter anymore. One state is here. The only question is how many Palestinians will Israel wantonly kill for "safety" or any other reason as it resists that outcome. Jews will never be safe in Israel as long as violence is accepted as a means to avoid solving the problem.

      My point was instead of justifying the status quo with open-ended nonsense, you could be actively seeking ways (or describing the ways you are actively seeking) to avoid killing people to prolong the inevitable. IMHO.

    • Yep. And expanded to suggest that disapora Jews need to be more proactive in their distancing from Israel because right now they ARE caught up in the association with Israel, by acquiescence if nothing else. Hand-wringing won't cut it anymore given Israel's increasingly self-evident, murderous nature.

      Israel has succeeded in defining who's a Jew. The only thing that counters that is for Jews to protest that definition loudly and often, preferably with sustained actions that make the point.


    • "When they become convinced that Jews are safe in the world and in Israel (or whatever it eventually becomes) regardless of the demography."

      So you're going to keep killing Palestinian children until "Jews are safe in the world?" Who decides when "Jews are safe in the world?" What if some Jews never feel "safe in the world?"

      What if you never reach your philosophical nexus because Israel been so effective equating Israel to all "the Jews" and has killed so many Palestinian babies trying to make "the Jews" feel "safe in the world" that no Jew can ever again be "safe in the world?"

      "The beatings will continue until morale improves." works as a bumper sticker or funny t-shirt precisely because of its absurdity as policy. You simply can't get there from here. Try something else like stop believing your own BS and start solving the problem peacefully.

      Here's a thought. The US Navy starts inspecting and escorting seaborne commerce into and out of Gaza. That solves every single stinking problem. No more rockets. No political angst about opening crossings. No Gazan kid will ever again have to risk going into an Israeli buffer zone and get shot dead. Gaza develops its own natural resources and blooms. Hamas moderates. Palestinians can build something with pride.

      Why won't it happen? Because your eternally disconnected logic is useful in Israel. Israel can use the logic to blame and keep killing Palestinians PRN. Israel doesn't care about rockets or dead/frightened/"unsafe" Jewish-Israelis. It wants the natural resources. If it did care it wouldn't constantly be instigating them. Rockets help it keep Gaza occupied by invoking the "Jewish safety principle" you so perfectly describe.

    • Finally. Aided in no small part by Netanyahu flashing long-held intent.

      Interesting times ahead. We'll be treated to one million ways to point a finger, methinks.

      This I think is where Mooser's driver comes into serious (not that it wasn't already) play - distinguishing Jews from Israel/Zionists. It's going to get very ugly in Israel and in the co-dependent community abroad. Somehow I feel that the uglier it gets the more adamant Israel is going to be about representing all Jews, as a shield and cloak for that ugliness.

  • Congresswoman who visited Israel on AIPAC's dime has no time for relative of boy beaten by Israeli police
  • 'We’re Like Toys for Them': Young Gazans speak about Operation Protective Edge
    • 200 dead in Gaza is the equivalent of 30,000 dead in the US. That's 10 WTCs/national tragedies or half the US combat dead in 13 years of Viet Nam. In ONE week!

      Israel has done this to Gaza THREE times in the last six years. You cannot visit that much death on helpless people and still claim to be human beings.

      Note to World: Time to try another way, and mean it.

  • Federal official fires gun at pro-Palestine demonstrators following scuffle in LA
    • Speaking of off their rocker, doesn't anyone find it wierd that there's a pro-slaughter demonstration going on at all? At best if you're FOR the slaughter Israel is carrying out in Gaza you hang your head and privately mumble something like, "It's necessary and I hope it never happens again."

      These Zionists positively revel in it. Sickos.

  • Joining Graham, Schumer calls for end of Palestinian unification for sake of Israel's 'survival'
    • If they end unification they end two state aspirations. These powerful idiots don't know what they want except if the Palestinians are for it they're "agin it." Pure mindless contrarian BS.

  • Soul-crushing video shows Gaza father unable to accept his little boy's killing
  • Israel's message to the Palestinians: Submit, leave or die
    • I meant MY questions are dumb. Sorry. Bad writing habit.

    • Great comment, Mooser. And thanks for your explanation the other day.

      Isn't this is what Arendt, Einstein, et. al. were warning about in the '40s? Are you saying their fears are being/have been realized? Is there way to de-conflate Zionism and Judaism? Can a decentralized religion collectively counter a centralized and funded co-opting political movement?

      Dumb questions, but that seems to me kind of what MW is trying to do. Awaken and rally disparate Jewish groups to move in a more or less common rejection of a Zionist substitution of itself for religion. Sorry if I'm dwelling on what is obvious to everyone else, but your personal battle and angst adds a new dimension to and/or appreciation for MW's struggle, for me anyway.

  • Terror in Gaza: 57 seconds after 'warning,' Israel destroys a house
    • From MEMRI no less. Tapper should be ashamed and fired. Heh.

    • Thanks jpb. I figured as much.

    • @MY1- I meant the video at 3:00 of the interview. The one that Buttu didn't have access to, couldn't see, and was paraphrased by Tapper for her and and his viewers. The one where Hamas spox are, per Tapper, "calling for people to be human shields." Does Tapper speak Arabic?

      That interview was an ambush and ambush journalism never reflects a desire to generate understanding. There was no audio so nobody knows what the Hamas spox were actually saying and in what context. Personally, I'm skeptical that those Hamas spox actually said what Tapper said they said, but they might have. We just don't know.

    • There you go. That's the MY1 we all know and love.

      You're welcome.

    • Does anyone have a link to the video that Tapper ambushed Buttu with? The one about "Hamas calling for people to be human shields." I couldn't find it. It would be great to get a date and an independent translation rather than Tapper's third-hand characterization of what it may or may not have said.

    • Maybe the citizens of Sderot can move to Gaza to get away from the Israeli military bases they live around. That way they would have almost 4x the warning before they are inconvenienced or, well, you know, killed. Ah, just one of the little luxuries of life in Gaza. I don't know why more trembling Israelis don't live there.

      You all really don't know when to shut up, do you? You drive people to not care about you because of these [beyond] ridiculous and cloying comparisons.

      BTW, excellent English today. Typing too fast to dumb it down?

    • Great eye, tree.

    • If there was anyone in that house, that's just a video of murder. What else can you call it?

      Come on Jake, Diane, and/or Brian. Step up. Nobody in TV Land would not find this video "interesting." Snuff video, damning evidence of the total absence of Israeli morality, or both, it's a ratings bonanza.

  • Israeli ambassador Ron Dermer gives pro-war pep talk to Christian Zionists
    • A) CUFI is run by a Zionist Jew, David Brog.

      David Brog is the executive director of Christians United for Israel (CUFI). Before CUFI, Brog worked in the United States Senate for seven years, rising to be chief of staff to Senator Arlen Specter and staff director of the Senate Judiciary Committee. He has also served as an executive at America Online and practiced corporate law in Tel Aviv, Israel and Philadelphia, PA. Brog is the author of Standing with Israel: Why Christians Support the Jewish State (2006) and In Defense of Faith: the Judeo-Christian Idea and the Struggle for Humanity (2010). In 2007, the Forward newspaper listed Brog in its "Forward 50" most influential Jews in America. He is a graduate of Princeton University and Harvard Law School.

      link to

      B) I'm at a loss to think of a corresponding example of a foreign (non-Israeli) ambassador advocating a policy position to a domestic political group. But maybe it happens.

  • Palestinian rockets: The conversation no one is having
    • @Yonah- How about stop killing Gazans (or any Palestinians) for a week and see what happens. Tough habit to break though. Actually, more addiction than habit.

      Withdrawal from that addiction would mean governments would fall and mobs would rule the streets, but maybe over time the sickness would pass.

      How about recognizing what Israel does in the WB is completely and inextricably linked to what comes out of Gaza? Announce it as policy and enforce it. Just as a trial gesture of good-faith.

      There was ABSOLUTELY ZERO need for Israel to do what it did to Palestinians these past few (8?) weeks. ZERO. It's been a spat of totally-engineered, instigating, political violence on Israel's part (i.e. terrorism).

      Shorter version: Stop killing people as if they were bugs. Start there. Simple humanity. Easy peasy.

      Heh. #notgoingtohappen Too easy to keep killing. Sickness.

  • Palestinians are 'trapped' in Gaza in 'lopsided conflict', Brian Williams says
    • Not only are Gazans trapped, but Israel's self-righteous claim (that would be a "talking point" Jake Tapper) that they "warn" people who are about to be bombed is wholly contingent on a working phone/cell system and the assumption that EVERYONE in Gaza is [still] connected.

      Gosh, isn't a phone system the first thing to go in bombing/slaughter campaign? Does Gaza even have electricity to power its phone/cell system?

      I noticed that Netanyahu ruled out cutting power to Gaza as a non-starter after one of his cabinet meetings. My guess is only to maintain the slightest shred of media plausibility for this "talking point."

  • Israeli leaders incite hatred against Palestinians and are shocked when people listen (and act)
    • I reiterate what I said about running over kittens with lawnmowers a few days ago. I wouldn't be surprised that anyone who thinks like MK Shaked has a history of it. Really sick shit. Hell of a way to go through life, let alone run a country, let alone run a country that claims to be a "western democracy."

  • Where was God in the Warsaw Ghetto? Or in Gaza?
    • I think we learn [a lot] from each other. I know I do.

      Sooo... Bakatcha! :)

    • Well exclaimed!!, bintbiba.

      One of my favorite lines in one of my favorite movies is in "A Fairy Tale: A True Story" (a movie about Belief at every turn and level of the human condition).

      Q (from 9-year old Francis): How do you know when you are grown up?

      A (from 12-year old Elsie): When you know how someone is feeling - who is not you.

      Does the Golden Rule come from "The Book" or the eyes of another person? I don't know which is easier (or harder??) to ignore. Maybe they work together. Maybe the deepest, most fervent hope of "The Book" is to get people to look into each others' eyes. Elephino.

  • 'Operation Protective Edge' begins: Gaza rocked by Israeli airstrikes as Palestinian militants shoot at Jerusalem
    • I became aware of this complete lack of self-awareness several years ago, but sometimes an example and circumstance comes along that is particularly astounding. This is one of those times.

      Apply this comment to Gaza/Palestinians and you have the perfect illustration of the utter futility of Israel's death policies and the grotesque evil of pursuing/supporting them for generations.

      Out of your own mouth, MY1. Out of your own mouth.

    • With all due respect Mahane! give it a rest.

      Just go away.

    • So sorry, Djinn. Please pass it along.

    • Nope. BN was on about "finishing the job" or some such IMMEDIATELY after after the kids went missing. They were going.

      See Blumenthal's article at EI for details.

      If you're talking about some other timeframe, do specify. If your source is a certain IDF LtC Lerner, try harder.

      And WTF is wrong with you all that you habitually use offers to negotiate (I'm pretty sure that's what "demands" lead to.) as an excuse to attack? Seems to me attacking is a big #2 on the war-peace "to do" list.

    • @Jon66- And this is why the blogosphere can be a real drag. Of course countries (Costa Rica being the notable exception) do military planning. Did I really need to say that?

      So to be clear... shb "...planned and green-lighted well BEFORE..."

      Thanks for the suggestion.

    • Not that it matters much at this point, but I hope Munayyer/The Jerusalem Fund can do a timeline on this. It seems that this assault was planned well BEFORE rocket attacks started en masse. The preliminary/instigating attacks started just after the GoI's immediate blame of Hamas after the three Israeli kids went missing and before any escalation from Gaza.

      IOW it would have happened even if there were no attacks. Yet another perfectly orchestrated Israeli killing spree for political purposes (which kinda goes to the textbook definition of terrorism).

      Tzvia Thier: "Zionists are geniuses." link to

      And FTR, I do still hope that the Abu Khdeir family tragedy has blunted the severity of what Israel is about to do, if only by lowering the world's threshold for condemnation of Israel's deadly acting out. I don't's a hope anyway.

  • 'Jewish' or 'Israeli' -- NYT, BBC, and CNN make different word choice
    • VERY powerful, Bumblebye!

      I can't imagine any org even loosely defining themselves as a "news" org complying with a gag order that seals information that is diametrically opposed to the known, factual reality. Particularly when slaughter is the obvious intent and the easily-predictable outcome.

    • Bingo, just. Always after the fact and only when the situation glaringly suggests that Jewish-Israelis be treated with equally harsh malevolence. Always. And not just hophmi, but any of the apologists. Situational and/or expedient morality.

      But hophmi's right in the sense that the practice is wrong. Period. He (or any of them) will just never be proactive about his objections when it happens to Palestinians. Yet another example of the pervasive, "Palestinians are ignorable as humans" mindset and argumentation starting point.

    • Thanks, Sumud. Thanks, just.

    • Great point, Donald. "Goliath" just jumped the relevancy queue. Completely predictive. If anything Max didn't dare to go far enough (didn't draw conclusions), but all the information and trends influencing this Israeli behavior are right there in the book.

    • Someone (thanks/sorry...) posted this Australian Broadcasting Company (ABC) documentary "Stone Cold Justice" on Israel's ongoing tactical arrest, detention, and abuse of Palestinians kids. It comes complete with conflicting Israeli responses of "it isn't done" to "it must be done" to "we're working on the problem and will implement reforms."

      Current. Unblinking. Relevant. Predictive. Great reporting.

      link to

      It's interesting, tangentially, that the Israeli spox would agree to be interviewed and give conflicting stories about such an abhorrent practice. One can only assume that they don't see consistency or making sense as even a minor concern as the only rule appears to be that there are no rules (as the international community winks at the practice).

  • Beating Palestinian boys 'to a pulp' is a tradition among Israeli forces
  • State Dep't says it 'remains shocked' by Abu Khdeir beating
  • Contradicting Israeli officials, family of Tarek Abu Khdeir says he was attacked while in uncle's Jerusalem backyard
    • Anyone know if there is a legal defense fund being set up for Tareq? I couldn't find one on bing.

      And what is the correct spelling of his name?

  • How long can Israel depend on Mizrahi docile loyalty? Smadar Lavie asks in new book
    • Mooser, OT but you mentioned a few days ago that your attitudes had, iirc, "hardened." Your deeply-informed wit is cryptic to me, but a week(s) later becomes understandable and enlightening.

      Are you going to explain what changed (if only as a puzzle key) or should we wait as the nuance unfolds bit by bit? Very sincere question, asked only because I remember you seemed pretty definite in your beliefs before you left.

      Don't burn out.

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