Commenter Profile

Total number of comments: 4133 (since 2009-12-08 10:00:12)


One summer in Germany, a while back, I met many returning US kibbutzim. The exuberance and energy was affecting. Influenced by that, a few months later in college I started to physically protest/jeer from the Israeli perspective. On one occasion we all headed to the Cleveland City Club to hear and jeer Chomsky. Between our interruptions (which he handled gracefully with a "noted" and went on), I heard him speak about water theft. For some reason, being as swept up in the Uris-like glow about Israel as I was, I had never heard (listened?) or asked about anything remotely disturbing about Israel. Afterward I started asking basic questions like, "If this is true, how can one people do this to another people, and we cheer it on?" and got few even marginally responsive answers. All the contradictions between Israel-reality and Israel-myth that appear here, were present even then. The veil was pierced and my perspective flipped almost immediately. It was the '70s, Kent State, and we were supposed to be FOR civil rights. FOR everybody. I felt grossly stupid and more than a little betrayed. My former physical tactics and experience mirror what goes on here an in the larger net world. I understand the desperate need (by Israel) to clamp the lid down hard (and keep it clamped) on the deeply troubling reality of everyday Palestinian life. It also suggests that just one little glimmer of reality that gets through can make a difference, one person at a time. One never knows which glimmer that might be...

Showing comments 4133 - 4101

  • The problem with Miko Peled's 'Holocaust: yes or no'
    • So does this mean Peled will be disinvited from speaking at JVP, USCPR, SJP, and/or other Palestinian activist events?

  • The Israeli right can't condemn Charlottesville because its whispered policy is, Nakba
    • @db Right. Because having a concern about the totally disproportionate political influence (toward psychopathic, counterproductive war policy and misdirected $Bs while Americans die by the thousands for lack of healthcare) by a sh*tty little, self-absorbed, exclusively self-interested (zero-sum as a long-ingrained worldview/method), country halfway across the planet (How many times has Netanyahu addressed a joint session of Congress again? I forget.) is the same as being a murderously violent supremacist of whatever flavor happens to suit. Got it.

      Not sure how Skokie fits into your attempt to teach me a lesson, but yeah, in the US even neo-nazis have rights. How 'bout in Israel? I hear the Jewish majority routinely tries to boot Palestinian MKs out of the Knesset just for taking a boat ride, or therwise speaking words of which the majority doesn't approve. Gosh, do you think a rally advocating something like the Right of Return would be allowed in Greater Israel? Hell, Palestinians can't even hold a funeral without being shot or kidnapped and put into indeterminate "administrative detention."

      Where's the Israeli Skokie??

      Have a nice day demolishing the homes of people not the same as you!

    • Yep. The nazi-like right is the nazi-like right is the nazi-like right...wherever they exist (Ukraine, Israel, Charlottesville, [anti-gov] Venezuela (or south of the border in general), ...

      Kindred spirits, and mutually supportive.

  • Pressure builds on Booker, Gillibrand to get to Yes on Israel Anti-Boycott Act (for sake of 2020)
    • Thanks jd65.

    • Thanks just.

      Would that be "hacking"?

      Cynthia McKinney described her initiation to that influence. Don't ask me for a link, but there was a vid where she described a meeting with the "Garden Club of Charleston (or her base if that's not it), asking her to sign a pledge to support Israel in exchange for their support for her election.

      It was some years ago, and I'll try to find the link, but the explication, which I've come to believe, is that this "support Israel...or else" money/influence assertion is pervasive, certainly at the national level. Much more pervasive than "normal" people accept as possible or real.

  • Chomsky still believes in the old Israel. I did too, once upon a time
    • @Misterioso August 14, 2017, 10:58 am

      Thanks Misterioso. That was my read. Ben Gurion had cutouts for his ethnic cleansing needs/policy. God knows he wouldn't want to directly, and with paper trail, be seen as ordering such human rights abuses at the exact same time that "Never Again!" was becoming a/the post WWII legal norm. Pfft.

      It absolutely was his/zionist policy to the point where it became counterproductive in the broader concept (UN acceptance in real time, at the time).

    • Thanks Danaa. Always appreciate and learn from your takes on things.

    • Yes Rob Roy. Me too. Fully subscribed in my early 20s. Kinda makes my skin crawl now that I ever bought in so completely and so ignorantly.

      As an aside, the only sliver that I've been able to find of the "old Israel" myth merging with some bit of reality was via a guy named Ben Dunkelman. He truly believed in the vision of "good" Israel to such an extent and consistency that he disobeyed a direct order from Ben Gurion to cleanse Nazareth of Palestinians. He wouldn't do it. A real-life hero in my book.

      He paid the price though. Immediately relieved/fired, but by that time the broad cleansing process had wound down (I think the world was beginning to notice the irreconcilable gap between Israeli promises and deeds in the 47-48 time frame which complicated the international politics of seamlessly integrating Israel into the post-WWII world community/morality as a member in good standing.), so Nazareth survived.

      Ben Dunkelman!

      (Though "strangely" he is never touted as an example of good ole foundational Israeli values.)

    • Shouldn't "the old Israel" (implying a transient reality of benign glory even though neither were even remotely considered nor implemented) be/mean "the old myth of Israel" of the Leon Uris novel and Andy Williams song (meaning pure fiction)?

  • 'Pummeled' at town hall, Sen. Wyden says Israel Anti Boycott law is needed because 'movement has grown'
    • Bingo!!

      AUMF was only for Iraq. Pfft.

    • "might" decide...

      Sounds ominous. :)

    • Agree.

      A) Even if BDS was lead by a foreign government, political speech cannot be restricted in the US. Period. It doesn't matter who initiates or leads it. If you agree, you can say/do it.

      B) The anti-boycott law aimed at the Arab League boycott is concerned with restraint of trade as a requirement for doing business. Completely regulate-able commercial focus. This anti-BDS legislation is completely different. It's telling individuals/citizens what they can and cannot do of their own volition in support of a political epiphany/goal.

  • Lindsey Graham asks whether AIPAC, which comes to Capitol Hill in 'droves,' is a foreign agent
    • Lindsey Graham, FFS. South Carolina.

      I know people in my non-redneck circle are tired of the Russia!!! baloney, without mentioning any of Israel's unquestioned influence. All of em.

      I can only imagine what Graham's constituency is expressing.

      Quite the sea change...if it is a change.

  • Israel is losing the battle for public opinion thanks to honest journalists, and platforms like Mondoweiss
    • Not only honest reporting, but Israel's own actions. At the risk of being repetitive, this Israel anti-BDS legislative wave means that any company not already doing business in Israel will NEVER do business in Israel. The risks are simply not worth the rewards.

      If a company should enter the tiny Israeli market and then pull out for any reason whatsoever, it risks massive criminal and civil penalties for doing so, with the only evidence required being some private email or twitter post acknowledging the justification for BDS by some decision maker. Such assessments of bizarrely abnormal risk propagate quickly throughout the business community.

      Result: Israel as business pariah. By its own overreaching hand.

  • Bill making it a federal crime to support BDS sends shockwaves through progressive community
    • Good one, a blah chick.

      All it would take is one retweet of a BDS org tweet to show "influence."

      In any event, however one arrives at a pro-BDS belief, expressing that belief is completely, overtly, de jure, protected under the Constitution. That's the fight, and the demonstrable litigation/able benchmark for how far we've fallen (or how much trouble we're in)... all because of Israel.

      Not only is Israel shattering the post-WWI body of IL/IHL, it's taking full aim at the US Constitution. But I guess that's just how they do things over there.

  • Kill like an Israeli
  • Israel's P.R. campaign is failing: the more Americans know, the less favorable they are
    • I would add that the overwhelming mass of demonstrable fiction that constitutes the [related] propaganda about Syria is allowing more people to see how they are being manipulated in a whole raft of areas. Israel is just one, albeit a major (war and peace) one.

      "Russia!!!!" is the other one. Every time I ask a "Russia!!!!" person what they make of, or have to say about, far worse and vastly more blatant Israeli manipulations of US elections and policy I get a blank stare. Whether that's a "but shared values" blank stare, or an "I never thought about that that way" blank stare it's hard to tell, but people don't like to look like incredible dupes and I suspect either way an informed response requires a rethink of some sort. Emphasis on "think."

  • On Nakba Day I want the right to be angry
    • Hi Citizen. Don't know if you saw this at Truthdig but the discussion is starting at the top level about US state suppression of everyone.

      It's by Chris Hedges and is mostly about the murderous MOVE suppression in Philadelphia but he's trying to ( don't think he quite does explicitly) tie that to our current non-Constitutional state in a way to suggest that we're ALL (white people too) at risk of/will soon experience what the Palestinians have long experienced. A "First they came for MOVE..." sort of thing.

      That may be a little too vague a description, but I thought of your "Dick and Jane" examples when I read it. Hedges argues with some urgency that there's a long history of suppression (no surprise) that is expanding rapidly to include new victims including "Dick and Jane." That may generate new empathy for other suppressed peoples, but it also may be that once a broadly-shared empathy is achieved it may be too late to act on it (that was the unsatisfying, open-ended conclusion).

      That may be a stretch read of the article but it did suggest to me more organic awareness/solidarity with Palestinian issues is coming sooner rather than later, along the lines you point out is so sorely missing currently.


    • This may be a duplicate...

      Brilliant once again Nada.

      A) You ABSOLUTELY have the right to get and be angry.

      B) I mentioned in another thread that I was recently involved in a conversation that was founded on the assumption, "If only the Palestinians could develop some empathy for their Jewish brethren in the Holy Land, progress could be made..." I got angry.

      C) I guess it needs to be asked, is it possible for Jews who seek to remain inside the "community" by using intentionally softened/vague/conciliatory language/meanings as buy-in for that inclusion actually help the Palestinian cause in any way? Or maybe a little more positively, is glacially nudging the Jewish collective conscience on Palestinian treatment in the right direction a prerequisite for Palestinian justice (i.e. justice for Palestinians is subordinated until the "right" time in the Jewish conversation, but necessarily so)?

      I increasingly get the sense that the ugly Palestinian reality is second or third priority amongst their own advocates.

      D) Following on (C), do groups like "If Not Now" ask themselves the questions Ms. Elia raises here?


      Btw eljay, the rape analogy only made her harden her boilerplate, liberal beliefs across the board. I guess this Zionist take on Palestinians is entwined with a whole body of perception and conceptual thought. Gonna be tougher than I thought to unravel, if it can be unraveled at all. It's less about discrete epiphanies than it is about preventing cracks in a fairly fragile world view. That may not be a "universal," but I didn't really foresee it even as a specific possibility, so again thanks. Learned something.

  • Norway’s largest trade union federation endorses full boycott of Israel to advance Palestinian human rights 
    • Just in case the situation arises, if it hasn't already:

      ““The flying of the Israeli flag by Dublin City Council will do profound damage to the reputation of our capital city and our country. Should further atrocities be perpetrated on Palestinians in the coming days and weeks, there is considerable risk that Dublin City Council will be internationally perceived to be supportive of terrorist acts (and countless other crimes against humanity),” he wrote.” [A Concerned Citizen]

  • Jews made America great so 'we deserve our influence' on Israel policy, Dershowitz tells Scarsdale synagogue
    • Yup. The US is becoming a zero-sum game with actual life-and-death stakes for a lot of people who don't like watching helplessly as folks around them wither and die from completely treatable afflictions (or a foreclosed, life in the street, or perpetual war, or pick one from the list...)

      And there's Dersh saying to Jews and for Jews (in his mind at least), "We got ours, make sure we use it to make sure we keep ours, and hopefully get more."

      Dangerous-er and Dangerous-er. Tickling the dragon.

      Dershowitz is a VERY bad man.

  • Fake progressives
    • Always to the core of the concept Nada.

      You're one of the best writers here, or even on this subject.

      Once this is resolved (God willing...) I look forward to your voice on other topics.

      Persevere. Make a difference.

  • New York rabbi links Jewish Voice for Peace to Osama bin Laden and Assad
    • Will do eljay.

      I agree it's relevant, also apt and powerful. When I get the sense that decades of insistent, ambient disinformation about Palestinian motivation/character is regurgitated by generally well-meaning people, it comes in handy to quickly refocus/reset the discussion to what's really going on there. Such was the case here.

      Another aspect of this conversation was a side discussion about political views in general and how people get [self-] lodged into unchanging beliefs. So there were two openings to use your analogy in the discussion.

      Too, it was painful because the look I got was the same as the look when I made the observation (pre-election) that the US political system had manipulated formerly/notionally anti-war people into voting FOR perpetual war in
      2016. That's maybe arguable, but it requires/insists a similar overturning of previously strongly held beliefs is in order.

      That's a lot to ask of people, but imho the level of blatant, across-the-board inconsistency is opening the door for just such a personal and public rethink. The rape analogy sparks a rethink on this issue, which may cause broader questioning.

      Still...TBD. Tough stuff to change.

    • OT...Eljay, I used your "rapist" analogy in a family discussion and the point was made, painfully.

      The context was one one where "hope" was expressed based on Palestinian kids visiting some German extermination camp and developing [previously "conspicuously"/characteristically absent] empathy for Jewish/Zionist sensitivities.

      I asked if it was equally hopeful/contingent for the rape victim to develop and show empathy for the rapist. Kinda left it there. Point made, pending some introspection. TBD.


    • EXACTLY Citizen.

      " Palestine as a Palestinian."

      Or even (i.e. ESPECIALLY) in Israel as a Palestinian because that's from where all this ugly Jim Crow racism originates and outflows.

  • New book by Larry Derfner, the American-turned-Israeli journalist, crushes liberal Zionism
    • Agree. A pretty major thing to gloss over.

      Derfner's a mixed bag. He moves in the right direction generally and generally courageously, but his boundaries seem to be that Jews have be the sole arbiters of a good result for Israel (the implication being, counter to his observation of a immutable right-wing racist colonial-ruled future, that they can do so without integral Palestinian involvement even and especially inside '67 Israel). Seems somewhat contradictory and/or ambiguous.

      I don't know. Maybe we're reading too much into that particular phrasing. Perhaps Mr. Derfner will explain (He's been pretty good about that in the past...).

  • Palestinian college student on hunger strike after 22 days of interrogation in an Israeli prison
    • If these kinds of exchanges are going to be increasing, I hope somebody contacts the US participants and recommends they visit Hebron/Shuhada St. while they're over there. Especially the black sailors and soldiers and officers.

      Spread the word. Experience/embrace Israel in its entirety.

  • 'Negation of the diaspora' as Zionist antisemitism: The JCC bomb threats came from an Israeli Jew
    • Or more accurately, sometimes a single Jew in Israel can be responsible for the oft-cited, increasing GLOBAL trend/"wave" of rampant/open/virulent anti-semitism.

      Didn't happen. Isn't happening. But the definition and/or quickness of the [ faulty] assumption and/or loudness of the shriek is changing to suit the manipulation du jour.

      Wolf. Wolf. Wolf. Wolf. Wolf! Chomp. Pity that.

  • UNC SJP responds to ongoing debate over cancellation of Rania Khalek event
    • Yeah. More than ashamed.

      UNC-CH SJP "doesn't want Khalek banned" unless they do it themselves. What a cartoon. Syria is more important to Palestinian "advocates" than Palestine is. Hoodathunkit.

      This really bookends the article on better Palestinian advocacy, doesn't it.

      Palestinians have so very few advocates in the US. What they do have is a bunch of people who have Palestine in their org names but who defer to every OTHER cause/priority/sensitivity they are exposed to. It's really hard to watch anymore, let alone commit actual effort to a veritable Nile delta of articulated concerns at the top. It's all just so self-diffusing.

      Palestinian advocates have to advocate for Palestine first or no one is going to care. If your own cause is your third priority who's going to listen.

      Two specific suggestions:

      A) Reinvite Khalek; and,

      B) Rehabilitate Allison Weir.

      Put Palestine first. Let the others fall in behind the Palestinian cause. Lead ffs!

      Sorry Harry. I digressed.

    • Thanks HarryLaw and RoHa.

  • Mr Friedman, where do you stand on demolition of Palestinian village and school alongside Israeli settlement?
    • He "stands" right on top of the rubble.

      Tough to shame people like Friedman. He doesn't care one little bit. Palestinians don't exist.

  • 'We are losing the next generation' -- rabbis describe crisis over Israel in their congregations
  • The curious red line for Milo Yiannapoulos
  • The Quebec mosque shooting and the Zionist connection
  • Before there was 'fake news' there was Judith Miller
    • Annie pointed out to me on twitter that Miller was FOR the release of Jonathan Pollard who was an actual spy-for-pay for Israel and actually DID get people killed.

      Good article.

  • Fordham bans Students for Justice in Palestine
    • "and that 'the call for Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions of Israel presents a barrier to open dialogue.' "

      Translation from Fordham-speak: ...and that the call for Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions of Israel presents a barrier to open MONOlogue.

      Much better.

  • Antisemitism and its useful idiots
    • "I can imagine it being quite daunting for non-Jews who feel compelled to support the Palestinian call for equality."


      I think you infer a power that either doesn't exist or is greatly exaggerated. I'd sure like to see an exploration of the assumptions behind that inference.

      It's probably true in "solidarity" groups where for some reason avoidance of even the accusation of "antisemitism" seems to take universal precedence over Palestinians in Palestine getting killed or deprived on a daily basis, but as amigo said upthread it (the control mechanism of the liberal use of the accusation) just generally doesn't matter. The overwhelmingly top issue is the morality (or the psychopathic lack thereof) of the mechanical killing and deprivation of Palestinians in Palestine by Israel/Zionists over the span of generations. Everything else is a far distant second as a topic of conversation. IMO.

  • Mock campaign supporting two-state solution reveals liberal Israeli racism
  • New poll shows sharp partisan divide on UN settlements resolution, and between Jews and African-Americans
    • Shorter version: Israel has been "hacking" our elections/political process for decades. With nary a peep.

  • After Israeli soldier is convicted of manslaughter, Times and Post portray case as isolated incident
    • Thanks just.

    • The enforcement mechanism outside the courts for quelling this behavior is reciprocity. With its attitude on this the Israeli mob/body politic is screaming "It's perfectly acceptable (i.e. we grant you the right) to execute us as prisoners." How much more barbaric/ISIS can you get?

      What a country. What gifts it brings to the world.

  • Love in the age of Trump
    • Sibiriak, I have now lost your point completely. Now you're just poking at length, imo. Noted.

      My view is that the WB will be merged into Israel. Gaza will become a separate state. Since the WB is what all the hubbub is about, and that's where you seem to have started out proclaiming that IL would have effect, I chose my emphasis on one state to mean the merging of the WB into Israel and considered (without stating that specifically, this time) that Gaza is a separate issue. You call that unintelligible. I call it a simplification to avoid writing a book about it. It is in no way an inconsistent conceptualization, non-standard, yes, but inconsistent with this thread and your original/ongoing contention that IL will force a two state outcome, no. Gaza is easy compared to what's coming in the WB-Israel one state struggle. Israel will NEVER let the WB go. Nobody wants Gaza. It will be orphaned (but I completely disagree with your failed state prediction. Palestinians are amazingly resourceful and energized people and all that will descend on Gaza to make it a success.). So yeah, technically two states, but for the sake of discussing the critical/big issues in this thread, one state consisting of WB-Israel. Hope that helps.

      And to conclude, your entire contention about this latest resolution is that it advances the case for an IL-compelled two-state outcome (meaning, I suspect, separating at least the WB from Israel). You argue like "this time it really means something" (sneer quotes if that's where the confusion lies) whether you used those words specifically or not. Good luck.


      Obtw, the "moral arc" assertion comes from my belief that the WB-Israel state will in fact end up as a rights driven democracy after much struggle.

    • Sibiriak: Can you give me any idea at all?

      Yeah sure. End of Apartheid/Hafrada. Equal rights in the new state. As simple examples.

      Sanctions are just tools, independent of application but requiring real, ongoing motivation. Obviously IMHO two states is not a real, ongoing motivation any more. Too much lip service over decades for it to be.

      So let me ask you... What's different now with two states that makes you believe that "this time it's for real?"

    • Sibiriak, on your previous questions I view that as a question of debating whether a historically feckless "what might be" is more probable than an inexorable "is." I can't wrap my brain around the concept so I'm really ill-equipped to give anything approaching a meaningful response.

      I'll just say briefly that all the implied, notional, or whatever, "remedies" geared toward two states will come to be applied to the existing Apartheid/Hafrada reality and not to the chimeric two-state failure. Prospective and retrospective, respectively.

      But I will say (as I've said before in Hostage threads) that something egregious and/or precipitous could reverse that order (like a massive Pogrom against WB Palestinians). But Israel has been so disciplined in doing just enough to "stay under the radar" of international outrage while furthering its annexation goals that I just don't see that happening.

      If you need a longer or more "Fisked" answer I'll have to get back on my computer in a few weeks so I can see what I'm writing.


    • Sibiriak, ftr I have said for years now that Gaza will NOT be part of any incorporation of Palestine into the combined state. Gaza will likely be the standalone Palestinian state for Palestinians to make of what they will. Israel just wants Palestinian natural gas so they will keep Gaza in limbo while annexing the WB where they want everything. Different struggle but one where a reliance on long-held principles of IL might actually balance out a less determined Israeli desire to hold onto Gaza, in limbo, for that reason. Unlike the WB, the cost-benefit analysis for Israel on Gaza may exceed Israel's political capital to keep both.

    • Sibiriak, with respect, if they annex completely around your "non-annexed" areas they have annexed those as well. They've already cleansed most Palestinians from "Area C" into the Palistan areas so either way they do it (whatever bits they do or don't deign to formally annex) they have 2M+ Palestinians in former Palestine under their control and without rights - aka [legal definition of] Apartheid.

      The world may let that fester for another 70 years, but I think that's less likely than the current situation. I just think that more obvious wrong means more likely action to resolve that wrong. I could be way off base in that belief.

    • Yup. I hope they find it quickly though, build on it during Trump's clarifying "window" now, and apply it with force in the next, less nutter admin regardless of which political "side" it may be.

      That may be a "dog dream" but it's all I got.

    • Yup. Brilliant! Well said and covered. Pitch perfect.

      I hope the Palestinians in soon-to-be annexed Palestine can survive the pain that is about to bring all the clarity, recognition, publicity, and - dare I say it - resolution to their currently, interminably, hopelessly festering (by design) predicament.

  • Resolution for 2017: Stop substituting 'the occupation' for 'Zionism'
    • That's an amazing catch.

    • Yeah it's tough to keep it straight sometimes. Friends of Palestine can't seem to say the name Palestine and enemies of Palestine just say disputed. Hard to know where "hasbara culture" leaves off and "hasbara culture" begins.

    • Also it's Occupied Palestine, not the derisive, dismissive, hasbara-culture terminology of "the occupied territories."

      Thanks Nada. Another good one.

  • The formal end of the two-state solution
  • Hear O Israel these parting truths -- John Kerry
    • Noura Erakat was on MSNBC tonight, Chris Hayes, prime time.

      It's a start.

      Great comment. Agree totally. Normal moral people are going to get much larger and more frequent doses of the repugnant racist Israeli Apartheid/Hafrada they have been supporting all these decades and be appalled. Perhaps appalled enough to support some compensating/correcting actions. TBD.

  • Netanyahu ignored US warnings and brought Israel's 'international isolation' on itself -- Ben Rhodes
    • Good roundup guys.


    • Hey Sibiriak. This article lays out in much more detail what I would have summarized in a comment response to you in the other thread.

      In three sentences or less (hopefully): You're right about the resolution notionally addressing two states but there are other more compelling forces/dynamics in play - namely that Israel has/is/will continue to ignore any legal or sensible framework for, and steps toward, two states utterly and completely. It doesn't matter what legal and/or political framework is put forward, any such framework is only used to give Israel cover further annexation of Palestine. So that's the historical and overwhelmingly operative/driving dynamic imho (see the "bloc" discussion in the article). Within that set of assumptions, my view of what this resolution and the associated comments and Trump's "greenlight" on the settlement enterprise do is to radically clarify and publicize the issue(s) and provide the beginnings of a consensus on the acceptability of real remedies at the state level (aka sanctions).

      You may disagree but I believe - because of the long-term "bloc" inertia described in the article - that these acceptable remedies will come to be applied for pervasive, open, ONGOING, and unrepentant Israeli Apartheid/Hafrada rather than the forlorn anachronistic hope of two states. You know, when the proverbial switch flips toward sanctions (as I believe it just did, but TBD) it's going to be a current or prospective application rather than a retrospective one.

      There's just been too much water under the two state bridge/sham to revisit it. Israel has spit on every opportunity to solve its own looming problems (two states). Nobody is going to waste any energy on it anymore (ever!!; Gosh, in a stroke of supreme poetic irony this might actually be the place where "Never Again!" actually becomes a rule.).


      Oops. A bit longer than I wanted, but important stuff, this.


  • It is time to recognize the US-Palestinian conflict
    • Rock on gingershot!

      Trump's gift to us all has been and looks like it will be that he does publicly what the rest of the "establishment" does in private. For all the world to see. He throws the whole broken, corrupt system into high relief. I can't think of a more precious gift to "the rest of us."

      Thanks for the "Meaning of Life" reference. Perfect.

  • Breaking: UN Security Council passes historic resolution against settlements as two-state solution 'slips away'
    • @lysias. While maybe no explicit calls for sanctions in the resolution itself, as far as I can remember there really haven't been any statements about illegality and "righting wrongs" by state actors in support of a resolution on Israel that passed.

      This is new and seems like a required "Step 1" in the Sanctions process - with a rhetorical/political vector in that direction.


    • Well then...the era of the S part of BDS begins.

      The Israelis are never going to even slightly heed this giant neon red flag of a warning of what may/is to come so this paves the way for state sanctions (except by the US of course).

      Trump's appointment of Friedman as US ambassador is just going to encourage Israel to behave this way and push them over the edge (increasing and increasingly obvious ethnic cleansing, settlement expansion, and black-letter Apartheid/Hafrada) and propel the implementation of Sanctions.

      No more two state baloney. A convergence of powerful, formerly nascent forces propelling a raft of unintended (though inevitable) consequences dictate this. Self-inflicted this is, due to completely tone-deaf, cultish behavior/political inertia.

      Good news and public statements by the sponsors. They establish a basis for future sanctions

  • Israel threatens to toss Antony Loewenstein after he asked Lapid question about apartheid
    • Obtw, "you people" are people who defend/rationalize their ability to lounge around in swimming pools while violently forcing people a hundred meters away to drink less than the WHO minimum of dirty water for which they charge 400% of what it costs themselves.

      Just for example.

      You know, the "occupation, ethnic cleansing, and genocidal behavior isn't really so bad/what are they so upset about anyway?/happy slave" crowd. One of my shareholders once called it the "Plantation Mentality." Perfect description.

    • catalan, the fact that you all have to have this continuously explained to you says it all.

      eljay uses his terms for a reason. You simply do NOT get that - to use your terms - occupation IS penetration. 50+ years of occupation is equivalent to repeated penetration. As eljay and oldgeezer said above, it's worse than that as the occupation is not just the inconvenience of being delayed for a half hour longer at a checkpoint every now and then (as you seem to believe). It's death and destruction on a daily basis.

      "If anything," eljay understates the analogy in deference to your incredibly selective [pseudo-] sensitivities (aka zero-empathy).

      Go live in Bil'in - as a Palestinian in Palestine (in eljay's metaphorical basement) - for a week. My guess is you wouldn't make it a day (let alone 50+ years), even if you did have the [laudable] guts to give it a try to spark a small bit of the empathy you seem to lack.

      Nobody that I've ever read about does that and comes back unchanged. Nobody.

    • Totally agree oldgeezer. Especially the "If anything..." paragraph.

    • You think eljay is trivializing rape?

      God you people are so utterly clueless. If it doesn't happen to you it isn't real. Zero-empathy is a hell of a way to go through life. I think there's a word for it even.

  • Israel lobby resorting to censorship and blacklisting as it loses control of mainstream discourse
    • Yup. I volunteer too.

      A good lengthy public hearing on this is just what is needed and the Zio-Lobby fears the most.

      I keep saying that there's nothing the Zios can do ro counteract growing BDS awareness and action that doesn't backfire on them. They CANNOT invite public scrutiny but yet they MUST invite it by going the legislation/court route to counter it - their last remaining option.

      DOOMED I says. It's over.

    • OT but speaking of keffiyehs, did anyone see the proud keffiyeh-waving during the Ohio State - Michigan post-game interviews? 20M viewers. Very pleasant to see/witness.

      (PS. Go Bucks!)

  • Israel advocates worry Trump's pick for State has anti-Israel bias
    • He's an oil guy. Of course he's got an anti-Israel bias.

      I remember Rubio or Cruz (was there a difference?) giving a speech at a fundraiser in Houston saying he was vehemently opposed to the Iran Deal. Well, that's the heart of the oil patch so what he was doing was pitching making it vastly more difficult for his audience to do business in order to please Israel. I don't even think he knew he was doing it, but he punched a huge Republican benefactor class in smack the face in order to salve his Israeli constituents (who btw donate equally to both parties; aka fair-weather friends).

      Expand that out to Israel's desire for violent destabilization and perpetual chaos for the entire region and there's going to be a "bit" of tension between those two world views.

      I hope Tillerman - as a representative of stability/sanity - wins out. (Sorry pab. I wish that wasn't the choice at hand; perpetual war v. climate change. Maybe it won't be ever thus...)

  • Why a Texas rabbi keeps losing a debate over Israel with a white nationalist leader
  • More than half of US aid 'to entire world' goes to Israel and it ignores our warnings on settlements -- Kerry
  • The lynching of Dwight Bullard
    • Well said pab.

      I got into a related, pre-election, "heart of the matter" discussion with my dear, die-hard, life-long, liberal, anti-war-from-way-back sister in law about how the Clinton candidacy debacle "forces" (more like manipulates, but with all the metaphysical certitude then and now "forces" works) people like her to vote FOR war and death. She was pretty backfooted by that point (less certitude) so your hope that that manipulation cannot continue (across multiple fronts) forever is probably more than just a hope. It's in process.

    • Yup. No amount of money can preserve power in a voting democracy if that money alienates every major (ie. required to win) constituency.

      With this kInd of aggressive, persistent, and egregious overreach these clowns are making Israel a partisan issue and sowing the seeds their own irrelevance in Dem circles. Kinda like the irrelevance/passing of the "two state solution" and due to the same arrogant mechanism.


  • Tulsi Gabbard's screw-the-neocons meeting with Trump sparks anger, derision, encouragement
  • Sanders says fight among Democrats is to go 'beyond identity politics' and stand for all working people
    • Yup. Is this even debatable?

      Oops. Bad question. There does seem to be a faction of the perpetual opposition that revels in angry ineffective-ness-dom-ism. Better question, is it a majority?

      Go Corbyn!

  • Why 'give him a chance' is not an option
    • Thanks for the Star Codex link MRW. Very insightful and informative.

    • Perhaps I was too colorful WJ?

      I think she is informed enough to have a pretty good idea, though my Sis and Sis IL - who are both just as ardent against Trump - did not.

    • Yup. Well said. Trump is the inevitable result of Dems failure to serve the forgotten constituency that they neglect but which elected Trump, despite the bigoted campaign.

      Clinton could have won by a landslide if she would have done just two things right (and maybe just one thing): Advocated like she meant it, $15 minimum wage and/or trash TPP and/or fix Obamacare and/or end war/windfall to free college etc.... (the list is long). But she didn't.

      I just don't get this after-the-fact bitterness. It's not a problem solving method or behavior. It's more inward-directed as anything for not being at all prospective before the election (ie. during Obama's eight years). My only hope is that that anger turns into non-partisan resolve and foresight. Maybe it will. There's obviously a motivation for it to evolve in that direction, but I think also a path. Trump is the trailhead to that path imo, but it extends well into the next Dem administration (and beyond) if all this grousing is to have durable effect. Ya know, Dems lost the House and Senate in the face of Social Security privatization. That's an almost inconceivable failure to me. Start there.

      I also read an article in the WaPo a few weeks ago that quoted a survey that found that 46% of US households don't have $400 to cover an emergency. I bet some of that extreme economic anxiety in former Dem constituencies translated into stay-at-homes or Trump votes. Start there. Political gold mine.

      Idk. Seems like Trump's election is an opportunity to leverage his good bits and resist his bad bits mightily, but always with an eye to building a compelling/electable political narrative (and results) that organically combines economic and racial justice as opposed to Trump's/Republican version which separates them and forces normal moral people into an artificial mutually exclusive choice.

      Getting rid of Trump is not a binary/zero-sum anger-based activity because he's actually right on some big issues. It'll take some political craft to separate, co-opt (back), assemble, and argue a better vision.

      Sorry for rambling.

    • Would have this same rationale be applied to Clinton if she had won? Victoria Nuland as Secretary of State? Etc. Etc. Etc.

      Is the deep state, neocon death cult any more offensive? I think it's more offensive, has been in place for 20 yearsn and has NEVER been resisted with anything remotely approaching this requested fervor for the last decade or so as it has caused untold devastation and death for millions of human beings. (I think I just answered my own question.)

      Is long-term, neocon-based, Islamophobia/bigotry under a neoliberal administration any less destructive than right-wing bigotry, or is it just that it's less often verbalized (and as we all know words hurt more than bullets and bombs)?

      Barring some consistent (aka non-hypocritical) application of outrage, this country is beyond recovery. When Obama and Clinton do the bigotry thing it's just as bad as when the right does it. Worse actually because acquiescence institutionalizes the right's more overt bigotry (eg. Obama REFUSED to get rid of the existing, Bush-era Muslim registration database; NSEERS). Enter Trump.

      The question, to me, is how to reverse neoliberal institutionalization of righty bigotry while it's happening. Not wait until a Trump gets elected to pitch a fit. Too late.

      Finally, if any of the people who are soooooo opposed to a President Trump voted for Clinton's war and death and crying orphans vision of a righteous, comfortable, problem-solving reality, they've REALLY got some soul searching to do before they start in on Trump.

      IMHO of course.

  • Donald Trump is ready to bring Islamophobia into the White House
    • Is it wrong to say that I don't care more than a little bit how Islamophobic or antisemitic Trump's advisors are if he ultimately stops killing Arabs by the millions, destroying whole countries, and creating tens of millions of desperate refugees/IDPs?

  • Biden speaks for Trump, assuring 'anxious' Jews of 'no diminution' in US support for Israel
    • Hi Mooser. Maybe oldgeezer can weigh in on this but it didn't seem to me that any of articles, including the Deutsche Bank one, showed Trump as underwater or catastrophically (such that he could be pressured by threatening to pull his loans) leveraged. Highly leveraged yes, but that may be the norm in a real estate/development biz. His income also appears to service his debt adequately (but not lucratively).

      Looked like if you discount his net worth claims by half he would [might] probably still be worth a $B, net. Is the risk of a deleveraging collapse of his biz "empire"/Trump "brand" an exploitable political vulnerability? That probably is a function of character so I guess we're back at the beginning - many "senses" but who knows. Risky stuff.

      But he sure is an exaggerator and a contetious mofo in business as well. Also don't have a clue how that plays out in governing.


    • So many mixed messages. So little time to sort.

      Three things though:

      A) Didn't Adelson largely pull his support for Trump? I thought I read that he had except for a token amount. Maybe not, but then there's the Christie nod for some role in Truman's admin. Adelson definitely publicly chastised and pulled support for him after his use of the word "occupation" during the Adelson primary in Las Vegas back in the spring. That's gotta leave a lingering political mark that MAY carry forward. If. If. If......

      B) On a slightly less iffy note, Sen. Sessions is likely to be in Trump's cabinet in some capacity. Trump thanked him profusely in his "win" speech. Sessions is staunchly anti- foreign aid and, again, MAY contribute that "spend it at home" generic POV to the incoming admin. Less aid all around but also including Israel.

      C) Trump is definitely less beholden to monied interests generally. He won without them.

      Might mean everything. Might mean tinkering around the edges in the right direction. Might mean absolutely nothing. But some fundamentals are different this time.

      We'll see.

  • New York panel highlights fissures on the left over Syria
  • Western leaders grow deaf to Israeli abuses
  • New campaign uses racist posters to target Palestinian campus activists by name
    • Why?

      Contemporaneous, proximate ugliness would highlight the hypocrisy of the administration response in each of these cases. They couldn't prosecute one poster's method without simultaneously and commensurately prosecuting the other poster's method.

      Or they might try to differentiate because Palestinian "safety" on campus is (in their administrative minds) far less important than Jewish "safety" on campus, but then that would raise a whole raft of moral questions if not legal actions with demonstrative, real-time evidence of discrimination/unequal treatment.

      Except for the martyrdom aspect (someone would have to volunteer to accept the punishment, but then they're being punished NOW without an end in sight), it's a win-win.

  • What if the Syria no-fly zone won't fly?
    • "Pietrucha and Benitez do not ignore the millions of Syrian refugees."


      Is the implication of this observation that a West-imposed "no-fly zone" would help alleviate the refugee crisis in Syria?


      Since there were no refugees and IDPs (now 50% of the Syrian population) prior to our murderously illegal attempt to invade and overthrow Assad and carve up Syria to suit our geopolitical desires du moment, the only way to end the refugee crisis is to wipe out the wahhabi mercenaries and their affiliates and end the war. That's not something that is "problematic" to a "no-fly zone," that's the opposite of one.

      The starting and ending points for these types of second- or third-tier issues posed as top-level considerations is "Just Don't Do It!" If that had been the guiding principle five years ago there would not be a Million dead Syrians (by the time this is over, assuming Assad prevails), a refugee crisis, and no need to contemplate "how many aircraft can fly on the head of a pin..."

  • Clinton to drop Israel from 'public' speeches, put it back in 'with donors' -- email
  • Jeffrey Goldberg is Jewish
    • Just as a general observation, nepotism is not evidence of excellence. Not ever. Not nowhere.

      Goldberg seems to assert that it is. That alone should disqualify him for consideration as a managing editor position.

      Great rebuttal PW.

    • Well said rosross.

  • New statement calls on the movement to focus on Palestine, not divisive internal conflicts
    • Good question CitizenC. It would be interesting to hear - in its own words - why Zionism is not listed as a form of racism by the BNC.

      Some DEEP movement insight to be gleaned there, methinks.

      It would also be interesting if the scorekeepers on these things would come up with a number on how many times Palestinian solidarity activists have appeared on Zionist media without bluntly criticizing that belief system and/or fora at length and without the slightest rebuke by their fellow movement-eers for that apparently mortal sin. I mean "universal" is "universal" is "universal" right?

    • Thanks Henry and drafters. Signed.

      Great comment thread here.

  • Security hired by pro-Israel group arrests questioner at Dennis Ross speech in Kansas City Public Library
    • So did I read this right? Optional, Israeli-trained, "security" thugs allowed to be at a museum function by a museum employee forcibly detain and arrest that same employee on museum property while he was doing his job for the museum? And they're going to prosecute him for interfering in a "security" process in which he was the sole legal on-site decision-maker?

      Sweet Jesus.

      We are all Palestinians.

  • 'NYT' finds no 'camera-ready villain' in Yemen (because those are our child-killers)
    • I've noticed now three articles/observations from "blogs of substance" on this "enginereed ignorability" phenomenon. Boomer linked to Informed Comment/Juan Cole, b @Moon of Alabama had a great piece about randomly and/or interest-driven manufacturing of "good" and "evil" (ie. protagonists and antagonists), and now Donald, here, via the Orwell quote.

      It's a theme - and a darn important one for we consumers of "info" to recognize as THE operative construct of journalism today.*

      The question and next step though is how do we truth-seeking consumers turn this knowledge into a usable filter - not so much for ourselves, but as a tool to explain this duping phenomenon to others.

      I have taken to using "ZERO of what you hear on [insert applicable subject here; war and peace seems to always work] in MSM is true. ZERO." Or the passive-aggressive, "You're too smart to be a dupe. Dig deeper."

      Maybe there are other ways to make the point and achieve/suggest a reset. It just seems to me that this phenomenon is so pervasive that some catchy/quick/resonating reset tool to counter it would be very useful.

      Thanks Donald. Good article. Relevant at a time when we seem to be turning a corner on a broad recognition of just how pervasive and pernicious this is. I also think that the first ones to get more people to look away from the MSM/interest-driven agitprop has the best chance to steer the discussion in their direction.

      * re: "today": I think this is a more acute phenomenon today because there aren't any competing voices of commensurate reach and energy like there was in, say, in our entire pre-WWII history.

  • Problem with Comments
  • Washington Post says Netanyahu and Clinton's 'common love of Hamilton' could bring peace to Mideast
    • The intentionally multi-ethnic musical "Hamilton" would be prohibited in Israel.

      Picture a Palestinian or Ethiopian actor portraying Ben-Gurion in some Israeli variant and you know why.

  • A lot of the grief over Shimon Peres is grief over the end of the two-state solution
    • Great points HarryLaw. My quibble is that Jewish Israel doesn't poseess the option to "allow" anything. while there may have been the element of choice that "allow" implies, it no longer exists. The choice has been made.

      The perimeter of Israel (or Israel-Palestine, or better, Palestine-Israel) defined by decades of force as "river to sea." It exists currently as one state. What happens now, from bantustans, to inarguably/legally/recognizable Apartheid-Hafrada-Jim Crow, to unambiguous and precedented international condemnation, to equal rights struggle (successful), is going to occur within that one state just as it did in the US and South Africa. It's quacking like the proverbial duck.

      You're right about Assad of course as a best hope for focusing the attention inward on the new state and the rights struggle I would just add that if Assad doesn't prevail and Jewish-Israel, as its only solution, starts transporting (intentional allusion) Palestinians from their homes to Israel's head-chopping, liver-eating, throat-slitting, alive-burning allies in Syria for them to do as they see fit with them, I believe that even the currently assertively complacent governments of the world would recoil and act. The Holocaust parallels would be too strong to ignore.

      IDK. It seems pretty clear that Jewish-Israel has cemented its own demise (as they see it). They'll resist that outcome (Equal rights? Ugh.) mightily of course, but I'm not sure they have any alternatives but to ultimately acquiesce (That is if they genuinely value living in their "historical homeland" at all. Fact is probably half++ will move back to Brooklyn rather than share.).


    • GREAT article!

      Now it all begins in earnest.

  • The secret location for a debriefing on Palestinian art at the Guggenheim
    • So the "Debriefing" was/is performance art as part of the exhibition? Did I understand that correctly?

      God do I feel old.

    • "...begs the question..." To put it mildly. :)

    • Curious behavior. Is this another version of Israeli cultural absorption, like falafel and maftoul? Why do they care so much about pre-48 Palestinian art to go to all this trouble to invent a story and present it in this way? Was this maybe some Israelis scamming a few bucks on the backs of Palestinian artists?


      And where is all the art stolen from Palestinian homes in West Jerusalem anyway?

  • No responsibility. No morality. No comment. No boycott.
    • "Perhaps the article is more receptive to LZ ears if the term disputed is used..."

      Great point oldgeezer. It does seem like a sort of "lingua franca" in LZ circles and/or the accepted price of entry/"credibility" in the broader intra-Jewish discussion.

    • Yeah MHughes. I think I understand what he's trying get at, but he "Overton Windows" himself in the wrong direction, imho. I think he accepts most of the legitimacy of the position he's trying to argue against and starts his argument from there. It's a thought process akin to Palestinians accepting the annexation of Jerusalem, its suburbs, E1, and the Jordan Valley and starting a two-state negotiation.

      I just think "complexity" is best unscrambled with direct contrasting alternatives rather than acquiescence (partial or otherwise). Mr. Cohen effectively makes the case that "settlement boycotts" are not anti-semitic, but does that mean he believes that boycotting Israel is? It's not clear he does NOT [believe boycotting Israel is anti-semitic]. If he does, there's a ton of subtext here to be unpacked BEFORE getting to any meaningful forward-looking discussion, let alone one on the static historical "what ifs?" you mention. It becomes an unnecessarily variegated and easily sidetracked discussion.


    • "disputed territory"?

      "settlement boycott"? (as opposed to all Israel?)


      What's up with that?

      How can one possibly hope to motivate change when one strenuously advocates in averages?

      Once again... aww screw it.

      I think the author's heart is probably in the right place.

  • Over 1,000 faculty members sign statement condemning 'Canary Mission' blacklist
    • If a business wanted to hire someone with the extremely valuable (and equally rare) combination of vision, courage, self-actualization, and perseverance, Canary Mission would be the FIRST place to go.

      It's a frickin' recommendation if you ask me.

  • NetanyaBOO!: Page Six punching bag Benjamin Netanyahu heckled at 'Hamilton'
    • Now picture how the intentionally-multi-ethnic musical "Hamilton" would play in Israel.

      It wouldn't. Period.

      Ayelet-baby - BooBoo's minister of racism, er, culture - would defund it.

      There's an ugly analogy for BooBoo's conspicuous and disruptive attendance at "Hamilton" but I can't get it right. Something along the lines of "blood diamonds aren't so bad because they clean up just fine", but that's not quite rotten enough.

  • Honor Edward Said's legacy by supporting BDS
    • Go Corbyn!

      He seems to be successfully navigating the anti-Palestinian attacks, fitfully but successfully. He may create a political model for others if/when he's ultimately successful.


  • Shmuley Boteach seeks to blackmail Obama over his legacy
  • 'Beholden to AIPAC' -- progressive senators Warren, Murphy, Brown sign letter seeking to limit Obama's actions
    • Hi Mooser. I just think there are competing dynamics. The wholly unaccountable, power, change-resistant dynamic that has so much annexation/border-expanding inertia at the moment and for the foreseeable future, vs. the embryonic equal rights broad-consensus moral dynamic.

      Imho the annexation inertia won't be countered by the nascent, yet ultimately overwhelming, rights dynamic before Palestine is absorbed into a single state. In the end, "the moral arc of the universe" (firm believer in that), wins via the like-to-like (Apartheid/Hafrada) clarity, awareness, and legal precedents that the annexation vision of the new state will bring.

      Idk. I won't live to see it, but I believe an equal rights version of Palestine-Israel will happen.


    • Point taken echinococcus. It felt wrong when I wrote it. My bad.

      Beyond that you and I are just going to disagree on the dissolution of '67 Israel. Sadly it exists as a repressive, colonial Jim Crow state. I don't believe anything is going to happen to roll that back border-wise ever. I'm just hopeful that whatever the new single state is called becomes (can become) one with equal rights.

    • Hey Phil, why can't you just say "occupied Palestine?" You just ran an article by Jonathon Cook decrying the "erasure of Palestine." Surely not being able to call Palestine by its name propagates that erasing (literally, if for no other reason).

      Why do you participate in the "erasure of Palestine" in your writing?

      The borders are defined, the world recognizes it, and using the name Palestine has no bearing on any one-state, two-state considerations (as Palestine is being inexorably absorbed by Israel). Not getting the reluctance. Just thought I'd ask directly.


  • UC Berkeley reinstates Palestine class, rejecting pressure from pro-Israel groups
    • So cool. Next time this course is offered it will have 52 enrollees. Yay AMCHA!

      All these efforts at quashing pro-Palestinian activism, or just simple, non-boilerplate discussion of what's really going on in Palestine, are almost certain to have the opposite of the intended effect. They triple they notoriety/awareness without countering the basic, seldom-heard-publicly facts. In fact they reinforce the credibility of the Palestinian side of the story by showing - in full view - a small dose of the unacceptable (ie. a non-shared value) repression the Palestinians in Palestine live with/under every single day.

      At the risk of being repetitious, there's nothing the anti-Palestinian crowd can try to do at this point to keep the lid on a foul, generations-long situation which is scratching and clawing its way out into the open, that won't backfire on them. The basic situation is credible, irrefutable, ongoing, and repugnant to most normal people so ANY publicity can only reinforce those fundamentals.

  • In Brookings poll, most Dems say $38 billion aid package to Israel is 'way too much' while the GOP is split
    • I really like Telhami/PIPA/WPO/UMaryland use of specific, informational questions in their polling. They really frame the opinion "fulcrums" in specific terms and generate immediately relevant and transferrable (if there ever came a desire) policy commentary/suggestions.

      His polling also consistently shows the the US public isn't stupid or unhinged. When presented with enough info to make a decision they seem to make a rational one.

      It's also a bit puzzling (or something) that he works for Haim Saban's shop at Brookings and still produces such accurately representative (imho) polling data - usually negative and/or contrary - on Israel.

  • US aid deal gives green light to Israel's erasure of Palestine
    • Since you used sneer quotes around "truths," please give an example of an obstructing "truth" from the ooccupied, suppressed, and colonized Palestinian side. Or are those the Palestinian "truths" you sneer at?


  • 'NYT' editorial on US military aid leaves out Palestinians because it knows it would lose the argument
    • Is Sen. Leahy (iirc) going to go forward with his hearings on the legality of this aid, absent a certification that it adheres to US human rights LAW?

      Oh never mind. That possibility (Ie. the smallest wisp of a hint that maybe not all is quite right/legal with aid to Israel) is probably not in the NYT editorial either (should I have read it?).

      Just curious, but does the NYT disallow comments on all their editorials, or just ones on Israel, or just ones where they [must] KNOW they're so completely divorced from reality as to invite overwhelming amounts of vicious and well-deserved ridicule?

  • If I speak at your conference, conservatives will be upset, liberals will congratulate themselves, and the colonised won't be helped
    • Wow!

      Thoughtful, eloquent, important, and RIGHT!

      There are quite a few really interesting and relevant issues raised and suggested in this letter. Without writing 5000 words (bo-ring) perhaps they might be congealed by asking if the/some AAI members "study" Palestinians and Palestinian culture (ie. Palestinians as objects, or even worse as done-deal "historical" objects)?

      Thank you Professor Hage. Remarkable piece. Right decision.

  • 'Where do you want it?': Israeli soldier taunts unarmed Palestinian man before shooting him
  • Two women's boats set sail for Gaza in effort to break blockade
  • More insultingly stupid propaganda for Israel in the 'New York Times'
    • Well said MHughes.

    • Yeah. Yeah. Even if you suspend your giant wall of disbelief for a sec and give Rudoren credit for a tiny sliver of truth, the US Declaration was quickly followed by stable, yet living/amendable, black-letter Constitution guaranteeing basic rights and capable of adding more.

      End of Israel analogy and the whole "shared values" manipulation.

      But then, we are now in the process of importing Israeli "values" (c.f. anti-BDS legislation) designed to shred or ignore our written Constitution and make us more like Israel. So maybe Rudoren gets the last "ipso facto" laugh after all.

      And both major party presidential candidates (and at least the last two presidents) say "Amen! Hallelujah!!"

      Sad. Tragic actually. How does one shifty little perrenial [known] bad-actor backwater country have SO much global reach that it can make seemingly everyone else abandon all our ideals and/or aspirations and adopt its diseased/repressive-as-first-resort/Jerry-Springer-show-racist political pathology as our own?

      And the trolls say just asking the question is a proverbial "trope" and assert that we ban burkinis (and worse, like defunding health care for the poor in the US to provide record military/repression/killing aid for Israel) because we have independently deemed that to be in our own best interests to do so. Heh. Right-y-o.

      Thanks for these articles PW and DJ and (((JN))). They really highlight the chasm between what is and what we have been rhetorically "nose-ringed" into believing "is" is. (h/t Boomer for the Juan Cole link the other day)

  • The right to educate
    • Great comment jd65.

      I was kinda going the other way. Instead of comparing to homogenize and obscure, I was wondering out loud if the current treatment of Palestinians is unusually harsh by historical standards.

      I think it may be, probably as a function of the power differential, but there seems to be some gratuitous infliction of pain mixed in as well.

      Reading this article, I got a feeling of hopelessness just out of frame due to the incessant and unbelievably granular anti-Palestinian attacks. That made me curious whether there might be specific lessons learned in comparable initially-hopeless struggles, if any, that might inform the current Palestinian struggle. Some models of incremental perseverance and/or micro-deliverance.

      The courage of these people and the others you mentioned is astounding, but I suspect not limitless.

      Just ruminating.

    • Are Palestinians and Palestinian educators unique in these efforts to quash their message, and frankly, them personally. It seems so, currently anyway.

      But how about historically? Have other groups, like say labor organizers/"fairness" educators in the '30s (probably a bad example) been treated this harshly by forces with vested interests in seeing that their compelling moral high ground does NOT get mainstreamed?

      I think what's happening today to even Palestinian educators who play by all the rules may be unique. But maybe not.

      Again, genesto said a while back that "We are all Palestinians." So in the sense that this thought-destruction (for lack of the right word) is happening/is allowed to happen to "them," it's happening to all of us. The nature of US Constitutional democracy is changing before our eyes. I mean this in the most sincere way possible...Palestinians and the Palestinian message are the amphibians of our political ecosystem.

      Or, shorter version: "First they came for the Palestinians. ..."

      Thanks Ms. Elia.

  • Trump could be bumpy for Jews
    • "The ancestors of most Jews experienced the worst of being outsiders, “vermin,” “parasites,” and Jews have a learned aversion to governments that persecute, and to proud majoritarian mobs." - See more at:

      Come again. Is that a joke?

      If "Jews" (following from the deplorable generalization in the article) keep sending Billions in annual federal aid to the motherland thus quite literally depriving poor people in Alabama of health care, that's a choice that "Jews" make (and broadcast).

      If "Jews" don't like being the objects of scorn then stop doing bad/selfish stuff that hurts people. Simple. Or maybe better, if it's bad for "Jews" to be singled out don't write an article that singles out "Jews" as particularly vulnerable. If elected, Trump is going to be bad for a lot of people.

      "Bad for Jews" has such a sour privileged taste to it. Who cares? We're all in this TOGETHER. Or are we? Wait, now I'm not so sure. (See how that works...)

      Trump is only the conduit not the instigator. As this article so perfectly illustrates, this is a self-inflicted concern - if it is a concern at all.

      And for PS sakes, If your worried about how "Jews" are perceived and/or singled out, don't crow about how Hillary is going to be good for "Jews" when she's going to be bad for the vast majority of the other people on the planet.


  • Amos Oz would never stand in the street in Tel Aviv shouting 'Kill all the Arabs'
    • Good one Boomer. Thanks. It's amazing how seamlessly the Zios fit or try to fit into Cole's observation on perceptual manipulation with their "Palestine never existed." schtick. It's like they innately know the formula, but then screw it up with their breathless "explicit-ness."

    • Wow. Wonder if other student-led classes have been cancelled by Chancellor whim, or is this the only one?

      If this is the only one, isn't that the sound of a line being crossed? Or was that line crossed long ago?

    • Yeah well, a lot of people say Syria, Libya, Iraq, Iran, and maybe Lebanon shouldn't exist, either with words or vile deeds. What's the "anti-" word for that (so we can all start saying it) and why should we care about Israel any more, or less, or differently?

      Yeah, yeah. Cue the profoundly sophist and artfully irrelevant "43 Arab countries..." rationalization cloud.

  • Why I single out Israel
    • Great point yourstruly. It sure seems like Trump is uniquely positioned to do just that, but for some reason he isn't likely/won't pull the trigger on it. It's like he doesn't actually want to win.

      But then Hillary could also win easily if she would just be honest about stuff, and especially if was sincere about wanting to stop the evisceration of the middle class. But she isn't either.

      Weird election. Both candidates [knowingly] putting forth the worst possible positions/personae and asking for votes. Both going to great lengths to show/demonstrate the gaping chasm between the peopke they represent and the people they say they represent. I hope voters take note and vote third party and REALLY throw it all up in the air with about a 35% NEITHER vote.

      The signs of the proverbial system actually coming apart at the seams are there this time. One can only hope that something politically buildable happens in 2016.


  • Israeli government projects 'ethnic cleansing' on Palestinians
    • Are we still discussing the ebb and flow in the conditions required for two states, or is this a "Biibs is a loon" article?

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