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Total number of comments: 9120 (since 2009-12-17 04:46:00)

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  • Iran is going to nuke your dog, pro-Israel group warns
  • Obama and the Zionists
  • First national trade union in the US votes to endorse BDS
    • "QUESTION: So you have every confidence, then, that the Israelis can bring these perpetrators to justice?

      MR TONER: Yes."

      I share Mr. Toner's confidence.

      I am not quite so confident that the Israelis will bring the perpetrators to justice.

  • U.S. is even more implicated in Israeli settlement project than we thought
    • Interesting questions. I'm sure Hostage or one of the other legal eagles can give us a few answers. As far as Social Security is concerned, people who have paid in to the system can get benefits even if they do not live in the US. I get a small sum, and I'm not a citizen, but I haven't broken more than the average number of international laws. Being illegally settled in occupied territory might alter the picture.

  • Israeli minister says IDF should have fired on unarmed Palestinian protesters for humiliating a soldier
  • NY's Center for Jewish History to host Ayelet 'Little Snakes' Shaked in conversation with Bret 'Hiroshima' Stephens
  • Videos: Brave Tamimi women of Nabi Saleh take down Israeli soldier assaulting injured child
    • I heard that.

    • Captain Israel? Poo!

      He's nothing compared to Shaloman.

      link to superdickery.com

      link to wfmu.org

    • Shame?

      One of the pictures shows the soldier ready to punch a woman in the face. She has her hand up to ward off the blow, but there is not fear on her face. She glares at him, angry and defiant. But apparently he didn't hit her. I would dearly like to believe that he suddenly felt a bit of shame, or some similar scrap of human decency emerged at the last moment. I suspect, though, that when he saw her expression he just lost his nerve.

    • Annie, are you seriously trying to get a Zionist to distinguish fact from fiction?

    • For most Westerners, the mask will immediately brand the soldier as the villain. Masks are worn by people who do not want to be part of the community. Not only does a mask make the wearer unidentifiable, it also conceals the wearer's facials expressions. It is a refusal to communicate. It is a rejection of the rest of us. And it is the standard mark of the criminal.

      (This, I think, is one of the reasons why the niqab and the burka evoke such strong responses in Westerners.)

  • God is on Israel's side, but not the United States, says Israel's new U.N. ambassador
  • Minnesota Congresswoman demands accountability for Nakba Day killings
    • "Sad way to spend a childhood."

      Sad that she has to, but resisting evil is not the worst way to spend a childhood.

    • Jeremy is the reason I've been making a lot of typos recently. I'm typing with my fingers crossed.

    • Friends of Israel.

      You can see, tree, that the typo demons can pounce on any one of us.

    • "because they were monitoring plain language transmissions that showed Israeli forces were murdering Egyptian military personnel and civilians that fell behind their lines. "

      I have never really accepted that explanation. No-one would care enough about a few Egyptians to make the attack worthwhile

    • Interesting article.

      Actually, I was thinking more of politicians than press. Both Labour and the Tories have "Friends of Isreal". Both parties have a supply of pro-Palestinian MPs.

    • And this is clear proof that there are no limits to Palestinian terrorism. Even the little girls are armed with teeth.

    • I don't think "left" and "right" have much to do with the I/P issue in Britain.

      And the pictures carry far more weight than the words of the story will. People will see a little girl, who could be their own daughter, fighting to protect her injured brother from an armed, masked, ruffian. Only a Zionist will sympathize with the soldier.

  • Jewish community is Humpty Dumpty-- it won't come back together again, and shouldn't
    • I was pretty sure it was a typo, which is why I withheld the lecture. ; )

    • "then its [sic] all the more likely that people with little other knowledge to go on will believe that the entire community is monolithic and supports and approves every atrocity and oppression that Israel commits."

      Too late, tree. That is almost exactly what I, and I am sure many others, already believe, and have believed for years. It is only comparatively recently that I have learned that Lilienthal and Moshe Menhuin are not the only exceptions.

  • Why did a Jewish Day School student cry hysterically when she learned about the Deir Yassin massacre?
    • “So, RoHa has a problem with every minority group in the United States, since they all speak collectively”

      Possibly. It depends how separate they think they are. (And the comma after “So” should not be there.)

      “So, RoHa isn’t reading, because I clearly linked the history of the Holocaust to American history,”

      Well, you tried. The Holocaust did not happen in the US, the perpetrators were not Americans, and the victims were not Americans. Even though some survivors emigrated to the United States, their experience was before they became Americans, and so not part of American history.

      So the link is “participation in liberation of concentration camps”. But the history which is called “our past” in the article is the “darkness and persecution and victimhood” of European anti-Semitism, not the victorious American participation in liberating the foreigners in the camps.

      “Nonsense, since the only people who believe that Holocaust survivors who tell their stories are doing so in the “service of a foreign country” are bigots,”

      Clever shift from the Jewish education described in the article to “Holocaust survivors who tell their stories”. But I’m still talking about the education about European anti-Semitism as described in the article. Is that in service of a foreign country?

      “Israel was portrayed as the answer to European anti-Semitism… and now we have Israel. And Israel is the place that we have to defend and protect, and Israel as the answer to all of those things. And if we don’t defend Israel, and we don’t protect Israel, then what happened in Europe is just going to happen again.”
      “I had a pretty strong sense that, like, my duty going out into the world was going to be to defend Israel”

      To my undoubtedly bigoted eyes, that looks to me as though the education was designed to push American Jews into the service of Israel. How have I misunderstood?

      “Something which heretofore hasn’t happened.”

      If it hasn’t, good.

    • And just in case someone gets confused, I mean the Zionists are self obssessed.

    • (I love those old films for the lessons in how to behave. Quiet courage, emotional restraint, understated humour, no boasting, cup of tea and carry on. Not a bad set of values, even if the reality did not quite match the films.)

    • So you are a genuine Blitz survior, then? One of those cheery, salvage-collecting, coo-mister-are-you-a-real-Spitfire-pilot, could-tell-a-Heinkel-from-a-Dornier-by-engine-sound-alone, kids, as seen in the best 1950s British war films?

      More strength to your arm.

      I'm sure you won't mind if I point out that the whiny Zionists don't just ignore you, they ignore all the people of your age in China, Russia, Philippines, and a fair number of other countries who would think you had a comparatively easy time of it.

      Self-obsession.

    • "Wait a minute, RoHa, isn’t that (“attitudes towards a group might be partly influenced by the behaviour of that group”) exactly what “Hophmi”, “Jon s” and the rest are constantly telling us about the Palestinians and/or Arabs?"

      Yes, but it seems that the principle only applies to groups which are not "my" people.

    • I see that poor hophmi is so busy that he has not had chance to answer your question yet, eljay.
      But I'm sure he will. Aren't you?

    • I know it gets hophmi worked up, but I really do not understand why it is so terrible to suggest that attitudes towards a group might be partly influenced by the behaviour of that group.

      And when a group of Americans regards themselves as a separate "us", with a history that is not only distinct from that of other Americans, but also not part of American history at all, and peddled in the service of a foreign country, I am inclined to think that this is the sort of behaviour that will give other Americans a poor impression of the group.

    • "This is our past,"

      Hold on, there. Aren't these supposed to be Americans speaking? If so, why is just one (distorted) bit of European history "theirs"?

      If Americans think any past is "their" past, then I would expect it to be American history. Beyond that, all European history, since American mainstream culture is an extension of European culture. And finally, world history.

      But I'd better stop now, or I'll start bringing in tropes and canards. I'll duck out while I can.

  • Israel's destruction of Mamilla cemetery part of effort to remove Palestine from Jerusalem
    • The process was planned and well in progress before the Nazis came to power. The people responsible were rich and influential. They were not poor, oppressed, Jewish tailors.

      And what proportion of the population of Israel suffered anything at the hands of the Nazis? Most of the main founders of the state were already in Mandate Palestine, protected from the Nazis by the British Army, the Royal Navy, and the Royal Air Force.

  • A year after Shipman lost his Yale job for speaking out on Israel's actions, some Jews say the same thing
    • "The Pilgrims and Puritans in Britain were undergoing severe persecution by the English in the 17th century. "

      I thought that they claimed persecution because they were not allowed to impose their miserable beliefs on everyone else.

  • Israeli nukes are finally newsworthy-- as US gov't both releases and gags info
  • Etgar Keret sometimes worries about what's happening to Palestinians
    • Preyer meetings?

      Ahem! Prayer meetings.

    • I think MHughes has, elsewhere, already said this, but I cannot help but compare Israel with the appallingly spoiled Violet Elizabeth Bott, and her standard threat.

      "I'll thcream and thcream and thcream until I'm thick. And I can."

    • Perhaps Malaysians don't protest about sitting next to women, or hold noisy preyer meetings on planes.

    • "Thanks for the link and quote from Avigail Abarbanel, JLD. She’s brilliant."

      She is, even though she makes mistakes with commas.

  • 51 Christian faith leaders urge Congress to vote for Iran Deal
  • Videos: 'Vanity Fair' story about anti-Semitic pogrom in Paris is falling apart
    • OK, Keith. I'll rephrase it.

      French Jews do have a few extra-special rights, but still not enough.

    • Thanks, Mooser. Always good to get the details right.

    • It is you who are missing the point, eGuard. Mere reality has nothing to do with hophmi's claims. They are grounded in the Zioverse, and represent truths accessible only after consumption of large quantities of Ziocaine(TM).

    • Froggy, you ask, "Where is the anti-Semitism in this?"

      It's just above your link.

      "where they have rights as individuals but not as a group.”

      French Jews only have the same rights as other Frenchmen. They should have more, extra-special, rights just for them. Denying them additional rights is ant-Semitic.

  • Omar Barghouti on Matisyahu: 'Perfectly reasonable to oppose performance by any bigot'
    • "We are “Hophmi”s people,"

      Mooser, do you happen to know how much he paid, and when he paid it? I'm not thinking of acquiring a people, but I'd like to have an idea of the going rate just in case I change my mind.

  • Palestinians struggle to leave Gaza as Egypt opens Rafah crossing for four days
  • 'New York Review of Books' offers Israel as a model to US on targeted killings and detention for terrorists
  • Citing 'everlasting commitment' to Israel, 26 Jewish bigs come out for Iran deal
    • Stand at the back, cap in your hands, and keep your eyes fixed on your boots. Do not say anything. Small affirmative nods will be OK.

  • Netanyahu Asks GOP Candidates: What kind of contortions will you do for Israel?
  • Churchill, Iran & 'Duck Dynasty': Mike Huckabee brings his presidential bid to the Israeli settlements
    • "Huckabee referred to Russia as the “Soviet Union,” and said the West Bank borders Israel’s “sworn enemies”—a reference to Jordan "

      C'mon, Americans, admit it. You just let these people out to give us a laugh, don't you?

  • Over 1,000 Black activists, scholars and artists sign statement supporting freedom and equality for Palestinian people
    • Another splendid post! I agree with your view of Atzmon as choosing to be one of the persecuted.

      'The secret smell-sniffing tools to get a whiff of an “anti-semite”'

      Anti-Semitism is the default position. You should assume everything is ant-Semitic until it is shown not to be. What you really need is an app on you mobile that will point out those things and people which are not anti-Semitic.

      But you there are so few such people and things that you might decide it isn't worth the cost.

    • You are right! I have clear mental images of both of them, and yet I never noticed it before.

      Do you think that they were the same person? If they were, it would explain a lot.

    • A bit off topic.

      The petition is now at

      70,330

      Sign early, sign often.

      link to petition.parliament.uk

  • Aftermath of Iran Deal: a divided lobby, but Biden's camp says he has 'Jews'
    • I don't know why my posts are getting cut. I'm just trying to get to grips with this word "mutt".

      Prior to this thread I only saw the word in American comics, and from them I learned that "mutt" meant "dog". Nothing more.
      Hence I was baffled by Michelle's comment.
      From a glance (admittedly brief) at her links I saw that the term was applied to humans, and it seemed to mean "mixed race".
      But then Annie called herself a "mutt". From what she and Ziusudra said, it seemed to mean "a person with an ancestor from another country". An Englishman with a Welsh ancestor would be a mutt.
      My guess is that a large minority, if not a majority, of people in the world would fit that definition. Not much significance in being a mutt, then.

      Also, terms used for dogs are often insults when applied to people. "Bitch" and "poodle" are not compliments. Thus, I thought that calling someone a "mutt" was insulting. But it seems it isn't.

      Have I now understood the word correctly?

    • "Now wrt Biden, I think it fair to say most people in Britain would say Joe Who?"

      And the rest remember him as the guy who plagiarized one of Kinnock's speeches.

    • If I call someone a "mongrel", I am saying, "You are not a human being. You are a low animal, and the least valued of that type of animal."

      I don't think race has anything to do with it. There are lots of mixed race people in Australia. They are our sons and daughters, our friends and neighbours. We do not call them dogs.

      However, I now understand your original post.

      Dogs might be insulted at being called humans. Cats certainly would be, but cats are very easily offended.

    • "english french irish german scottish"

      Annie, even with capital letters that would hardly count as mixed race. Probably half the population of Western Europe is that sort of mixture.

    • And why would I not be serious? "Mutt" is an American term for a dog. I see from your links that (a) Obama called himself a dog, and (b) the term is used for dogs of mixed breeds.

      Are you using the term to mean people of mixed race? It sounds insulting to call them dogs.

      (Calling someone a "mongrel" is a very strong insult in Australia, but I don't expect you to mean that.)

    • "might be the ‘mutts’ are the answer to a greater peace "

      I don't understand. How do we get peace through dogs?

  • Leading Israeli journalist says Israel is an Apartheid state
  • Pittsburgh Jews say Obama will allow 'Second Holocaust' while Israel's ambassador openly lobbies Capitol Hill
    • "It’s only a Jewish discussion because most others do not prioritize the safety of Jews."

      I think that is true, actually. It seems to me that neither the ADF nor the Australian police regard the safety of Australian Jews as more important than the safety of other Australians.

      "That’s why there’s an Israel. Jews aren’t depending on other people to keep them safe anymore. "

      That's fine. It'll reduce the work load on the police if they can forget about protecting Jews.

    • "you are us, and we are you. We are all better together "

      And who is the Eggman?

  • Skunk water for Palestinian protesters, not right-wing Jews, in roads near Mohammad Allan's hunger strike
    • Does anyone know how many suffragettes died as a result of force feeding?

      ("I suspect, these medical personnel, are really idf medics. "

      I presume this is to be read as

      "I suspect [gasp, cough] these medical personnel [pant, gasp, drag at cigar, cough] are really idf medics.")

  • Does Obama have Booker? Boteach desperately plays race card and Jewish donor card
    • A bit longer than that, actually, Mooser. It is the length of the time span that has put us into the current linguistic situation.

      Human beings only need one language, and that language is, of course, English. However, for a very large chunk of human history, English did not exist. This meant that early humans faced the prospect of either sitting and staring blankly at each other for thousands of years, or cooking up some sort of language to be going on with. Sensibly, they chose the latter course. I say "sensibly" because, whilst having languages undeniably led to arguments with one's spouse, it also made possible poetry and the development of civilization.

      And that, I think you will agree, is at least partial compensation.

      The multilingual world we have today is the result of the ingenuity and effort of those ancient pioneers, and I say we have cause to be grateful to them. They faced a tricky situation and dealt with it brilliantly.

      But the situation has changed. English - invented by G. Chaucer, enriched by W. Shakespeare, and perfected by C. Lamb and P. G. Wodehouse - now exists. The other languages are no longer necessary, and, in fact, present obstacles to communication.

      I recognize that there is a certain geeky pleasure to be gained from learning them and comparing them (I do it myself) but I cannot persuade myself that there is any real value in maintaining them, especially when we have other, vital, problems to solve. So I am not really enthusiastic about these movements to preserve other languages. They have served their purpose. It is time to let them go.

    • "Afro is much in fashion as you observe"

      Actually, I haven't seen an Afro since the seventies. And, as you have probably guessed, I haven't paid a lot of attention to historical linguistics since then, either.

    • Yes, I believe the Uralo-Altaic family was abandoned when it was decided that the Altaic branch wasn't a family. I thought the term Hamitic was dropped when the Semitic languages were subsumed into the Afro-asiatic grouping. Is it still in use somewhere?

    • "Can you imagine the abomination if we were confused with the “Sons of Ham”? "

      I have seen a number of Jewish actors for whom that would be a suitable appellation.

      "Hamitic" was a term applied to a number of North African languages. As I understand it, the term was dropped when it was shown that they did not form a family

    • Off topic technical note.

      I don't understand why, after "philologists claimed that Arabic, Hebrew, Aramaic, Amharic, etc., were “Semitic” languages", he says, " even though philologists could never find a parent Semitic language from which they all derived."

      Nor do we have a common Indo-European language, a common Bantu language, or a common Uro-Altaic language. The similarities between the languages justifies them being grouped into the families.

      Those similarities also suggest that each family derived from a common language, but even if some alternative explanation for the similarities could be found, it would not mean that the groupings were unjustified.

  • Danny Danon 'would only make Israel look more extreme' -- former Israeli ambassador
  • Jimmy Carter has cancer
    • Only president who went from the presidency to better and greater things.

      My respect may not be worth much, but it isn't easy to get. Carter is one of the very few politicians I do respect.

  • Saban says Iran Deal is a done deal, as Netanyahu and Bush play for 2016
    • That's odd. So far, on British TV, I haven't noticed any fear ads urging the British Government to reject the deal.

  • In latest thrust at Obama, Netanyahu names UN ambassador who trashed him and said Palestinians can have 'Facebook state'
  • Non-Jew dares to announce position on Iran Deal
  • Radical talent Jowan Safadi's new song - 'To be an Arab'
    • Sorry. My mistake. :-p

    • "we Americans don’t care if Australian representative keep tarantulas as pets, either. "

      That's O.K. The tarantulas will get you anyway.

    • Emoticons are one abomination among many, and not the most serious one. Saving civilization is a time consuming and enervating task, so I reserve my energies in order to deal with the grossest solecisms.

      But if you wish to take up arms against the emoticon, do so with my blessing. :-)

    • I'm not moving the goalposts. The claim is that most/all hardcore homophobes are gay. If there is no evidence for that (and you claim there isn't) how can it be anything but a popular superstition?

    • So far, then, there is no reason to believe "most/all hardcore homophobes are themselves gay" is anything other than a popular superstition.

      And I think that's enough diversion from the main business of drooling over the girls in the taxi.

    • Annie, you know I live under the the third rock from the sun. It is a place where the peccadilloes of American senators are not considered matters of great importance.

      You examples support "some anti-gays are gay". They do not give a reason to believe "most/all anti-gays are gay". I want comparative data, telling me how many anti-gays are gay and how many are not gay.

    • Thanks. So we know there is at least one case of anti-gay gay. That supports a claim of "some hardcore anti-gays are gay". Is there any reason to extend that to the popular claim "most/all hardcore anti-gays are gay"?

    • And good-looking girls they are, too, in this DOM's opinion.

    • Off topic, but

      "Hardcore homophobes are the most gay on the inside"

      is a fashionable claim. However, I've never seen a scrap of empirical evidence for it. Is there any?

  • Someone Else’s Normal: The Dawabshe tragedy and picturing Palestine
  • Roundtable on the Palestinian solidarity movement and Alison Weir
    • "And I also found out a clambake isn’t some kind of hillbilly anthropophagy. "

      Cannibalism is kosher?

    • "no. i think she was born in israel."

      Pity. But we all make mistakes. I suppose it's a bit late to fix that.

    • Is there some way Danaa could be made President of the U.S.? Or at least Sec. Of State?

    • This why everyone should speak English.

    • Stop reading MW?

      I'm not talking about private conversations. I'm talking about the constant moaning in public fora, in news media, in films and TV shows, and so forth.

      I'd have to cut myself off from the world to get away from it.

    • "Anti-Semitism and anti-Americanism are mainly reactions to those power structures "

      I suspect (solely, I admit, on extrapolation from my own reactions) that at least some anti-Semitism stems from irritation at hearing Jews moan about it all the time.

    • W. Jones,

      And, of course, the People's Front of Judea, the Judean People's Front ...

      link to m.youtube.com

      (Rather like the situation we face here.)

      And yes, definitely some nasty anti-Romanism there.

    • You are just kidding, aren't you? You call Weir a racist, and yet use the phrase "People of Colour" and say that "Amercans" means "white Americans".

      I try very hard to avoid cod psychology, but, if you are serious, even I cannot help suspecting a predilection for finding racism even where there is none.

      And to claim that she advocates a colonisation of Palestine is ludicrous.

    • Mooser, I know two versions of White Russian.

      One is 2 parts vodka, 1 part Kahlua, 1 part heavy cream.
      The other is 1 part vodka, 1 part Kahlua, 2 parts milk.

      Serve in a chilled glass.

    • Sorry. "And if it true" should be "And if it is not true".

      Incidentally, in all my reading about WW2, I have never heard of Jewish resistance fighters being attacked by other resistance fighters. Lots of strange things happened, but that one sounds either like an exaggeration of a squabble between a couple of guys or simply made up.

    • @W. Jones.

      Here we face the question I keep raising. Are we to suppress the truth if someone declares it is anti-Semitic?

      A pretty good case can be (and has been) made that the invasion of Iraq was for Israel's benefit. Are we not allowed to at least argue the case?

      If the Gospels are true (not that I believe they are) then the film The Passion is also true. And if it is true, it is anti-Roman as well as anti-Semitic. Where are the complaints about that?

      (When making films such as Ben Hur and Spartacus, the directors cast British actors to play the Romans. This made it clear that the Romans (decent, sensible, level-headed chaps, regardless of whether their preference was for snails or oysters) were the good guys, and thus the ones with the other accents were the dodgy, unreliable, excitable types who needed the firm hand of Rome to keep them in line.)

    • Quite clear . Bintbiba.

      Annie, Krishna listens to all prayers, even if they are not directed to him. You would think the other Gods would object to this ungentlemanly behaviour, but I see no recognisable sign of it on this mortal plane.

    • "her book MUST get out to reach ALL Americans, not just the progressive ones."

      Yes. This forum often refers to the "progressive except on Palestine" group. Weir's book might help to create a "progressive only on Palestine" group. That would certainly broaden the political base.

    • "How important and helpful is it to write a book focusing on how a Jewish “elitist secret society” allegedly pressured to US government to support Israel’s founding? Even if it was true. "

      Are you suggesting suppressing the truth, or merely "temporarily de-emphasizing" it?

      I understand the tactics of the latter approach, and I recognize that sometimes concessions have to be made (as, I think, Weir did in her interviews) but I always fear that such calculations will ultimately subvert the very principles they were intended to support.

    • "It still doesn’t make sense to ally with white supremacists who hate Jews"

      I don't see that Weir is allying herself with them. She is taking the opportunity to present the pro-Palestinian case to them, without getting involved in wrangles about their general racist outlook. Such wrangles would only detract from her specific message.

      In Britain and Australia, the White supremacist types are usually supportive of Israel. They may hate Jews, but they hate Arabs and Muslims more, and will happily ally themselves with Zionists for a bit of Paki-bashing.

    • I have no objection to the study of rhetoric. On the contrary, I hold that the trivium of grammar, logic, and rhetoric should be the foundation of education, along with mathematics and science.

      But "Studies" opens the door to sociologists, French Postmodernists, and a descent into jargon-filled, impenetrable, high-falutin' (perfect word, irishmoses) drivel.

    • "Discourse Studies"?

      Snort!

    • You are right. The whole thing is a beat-up to smear Weir, discredit her work (by argumentum ad hominem, as Krendall Mist points out) and split the opposition to Israel.

  • Dear Freshmen Members of the House of Representatives

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