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Total number of comments: 8207 (since 2009-12-17 04:46:00)

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  • In order to change Israel activists must disrupt Zionist space
  • Canada Park, a popular picnicking spot for Israelis, created upon the rubble of Palestinian homes
    • The Arabs have never accepted that there is a place for an independent Jewish State that has been created by driving Arabs out of their homes, stealing their farms and businesses, and denying them their rights.

      "And when you talk about wounds you should rather be thinking of all the Jews who have been wounded by the violent actions taken by the Arabs. "

      Why should we not be thinking of all the Arabs who have been wounded by the Zionists? What makes Jews so special?

    • "All Zionists are not Jews..."

      This is simply not true. Lots of Zionists are Jews, and lots of Jews (I suspect most) are Zionists.

      Not all Jews are Zionists, though, and not all Zionists are Jews.

    • Must make you swell with national pride, eljay.

      (Course, I've got the John Howard Forest on Bedouin land in the Negev and The South Australia Israel Friendship Forest on Mt. Hebron to boast about.)

  • I was born ideologically, politically, and spiritually in June 1967 -- settler/ambassador Dani Dayan
    • And the "first past the post" system undercuts the British claim to be a democracy.

      You should all adopt the Very Wonderful Australian Preferential Vote system that has led to Australia being run by sagacious, honest, far-sighted statesmen whose only concern is the well-being of the people of Australia.

      http://mondoweiss.net/2017/01/antisemitism-useful-idiots/#comment-867454

      Real democracy requires sausages.

    • "democracy is on the decline with trump as us president. his minority of the popular vote contributes to the decline of democracy in the world."

      Because never before has a president or prime minister gained office on a minority vote.

  • 'Please remember the Montgomery bus boycott'-- letter to Westchester County board before BDS vote tonight
    • "Normalization:...A peace deal for what’s left of the land, economic ties, an end to hostilities."

      But these are things the Israelis oppose.

      "Israeli resistance to peace is as much to blame as the Palestinian leadership."

      No, Israeli resistance to peace is far more to blame, because it is the Israelis who have the power and the Israelis who committed the wrongs that the conflict arose from.

      "And the Arab/Muslim leadership across the globe in general."

      The Arab League endorsed the 2002 Saudi Initiative, and then re-endorsed it in 2007 and 2017. This initiative offered exactly the sort of normalization you describe.

      It was rejected by the Israelis.

    • Page: 82
    • What do you mean by "normalization"?

      And Israel is the obstacle to the 2SS, not the Palestinians. From 1949 onwards, Israel has blocked the establishment of a genuine Palestinian state in the rump of the territory of the State of Palestine that was left after the Zionists seized part of it.

      http://original.antiwar.com/avnery/2011/09/18/sad-and-happy-about-palestinian-state-bid/

    • Indeed.

      And if I had to choose between the chances of that alternative resolution being passed and those of the proverbial snowball in Hell, my money would be on the snowball.

  • Israel cancels 250,000 Palestinian permits to enter Israel during Ramadan after deadly attack
    • 'Australia’s foreign minister Julie Bishop has spoken out against Israeli’s use of torture stating that “I am deeply concerned by allegations of the mistreatment of Palestinian children,” '

      She's concerned about stopping the allegations, not the mistreatment. Mad Eye Bishop sucks up to Israel every chance she gets. When that nice Mr Rudd was protesting about Mossad's misuse of Australian passports, she took Israel's side.

    • Lift the siege? Pathetic! Where's the fun in that?

  • Palestinian Authority blocks access to news sites linked to Abbas rivals
    • Not much to add to Harry Law and Joseph A.

      Abbas is Israel's puppet. This sort of thing is not remarkable under the circumstances.

  • Just 1 of 12 Westchester County legislators stands up against anti-BDS bill -- Alfreda Williams
    • "The only legislator to vote against was my own Alfreda Williams of District 8 "

      After the next election she will be spending more time with her family.

  • Israeli ambassador says he admires and envies Palestinians for keeping refugee issue alive
  • Dispatch from 'the most ****ed up place on Earth,' Hebron's H2 quarter
    • "And one cannot colonize your own home, however much you want this to be the case."

      But Palestine was not the home of the European and American Zionists, regardless of however much you want this to be the case.

    • "And Churchill couldn’t hardly steal anything than Jews didn’t even posess "

      "And Churchill could hardly steal ...", surely.

    • "Did the Ottoman Empire have rights to the land. Of course not."

      You don't say what rights you mean.

      The Ottomans had the right to rule the land, since it was part of a state as legitimate as any other of the time.

      "Did the nation of Palestine have rights to the land. Of course not as there was no nation of Palestine, ever. There was no people collective group who called themselves Palestinians."

      I'm going to guess that by "nation" you mean what I call n-nation. You can read about that term here
      http://mondoweiss.net/2015/05/putting-israels-humanitarian/#comment-770132

      I does not matter whether or not there was a "people /collective group who called themselves Palestinians."

      What does matter is that there were people living in Palestine as citizens of the Ottoman Empire, and then as citizens of the Mandated State of Palestine. Those people had (a) the right to live there, and (b) the right to establish an independent state. Both these rights apply to all the residents, not to particular "peoples/collective groups/n-nations". Merely being a member of a people /collective group/n-nation does not give either of those rights.

      (I have argued for this position at exhaustive and exhausting length on MW. If you disagree, either present counter arguments or track down my arguments and find flaws in them.)

      "Jews have always been in the area you call Palestine."

      Native Jews, native Christians and native Muslims have been in the area for a very long time, but that does not give European Jews, American Christians, or Indonesian Muslims any rights in Palestine.

      "Jews did not colonize anything."

      European and American Jews did. They came into the land with the avowed intent of taking it away from the natives and setting up their own state there.

    • I recall that eee had a go at excommunicating you, but it didn't take. Maybe Grover can succeed, and you will be able to live the same sort of carefree life I do.

    • What is really needed is for Israeli Jews to defend a place for Palestinians - as equal citizens - in in the same places the Jews want exclusively for themselves.

    • I ask about the Temple of Jupiter because it seems to be neglected by both archaeologists and historians, and yet it lasted much longer than the temple that Herod built.

    • Emet, it is the Zionists who will not share. Before the establishment of Israel, the Palestinians (Muslim, Christian, and Jew) said that they were willing to share the country with the European Jews who had settled, and even to make Hebrew an official language of Palestine. But the Zionists did not want to share. They wanted as big a slice for themselves as they could manage, with the aim of ultimately taking the lot.

    • I don't keep up with Biblical archaeology. Are those the foundation stones for Herod's temple, or for the temple of Jupiter Optimus Maximus?

    • Gamal, you are, as the young people would say, toast.

      Hang on to those deeds, and key to your house. You'll be able to show them to sympathetic journalists when they visit the camp on the Isle of Man.

    • "those on this propaganda pumping website will have you believe that there was a people called Palestinian Arabs way back then,"

      Who will have you believe that? And why does that ancient history matter now?

      " Of course some Arab in some village somewhere has rights."

      All Arabs everywhere have the same moral rights as all Jews.

      "Put some of these Arabs together and no, they do not have rights over the holiest site for Jews."

      Then neither do Jews.

    • The foundation stones show that a Temple existed. They tell us nothing about the conditions of the Jews and the non-Jews in the Hebron area before 700 CE.

    • Fair enough for Jews, Mooser, but why do Zionists think that everyone else should have a collective identity as well?

    • "The fact that it’s located in Hebron in the West Bank is part of a mountain of evidence that proves the Jewish claim to what is erroneously called Palestine ...and that their right of return is just"

      How does the presence of the tombs of A,I, and J prove that the claim is just? Please spell out the chain of reasoning.

      Why is it erroneous to call Palestine "Palestine"?

      "the birthplace of their [Jews] civilization"

      No such thing as their civilization.

    • "personal papers proving that you are a direct descendant,"

      And recognized as such by the Royal College of Heralds.

    • "Hebron was once an all Jewish city before the Muslim invaders came along."

      And no part of Palestine was "Jewish" before Abraham came along and bought a bit from the natives. What is the relevance of this ancient history?

      "Abraham, Issac and Jacob. Muslims also claim connection to the same three ... "

      Muslims claim a religious connection, just as Jews do. Seems just as good a connection.
      (Or, by " forefathers", did you mean to claim that all Jews are direct biological descendants of A,I, and J?)

      "Sounds to me that some people want and took what others already had."

      You are talking about the Zionists taking Palestine from the Palestinians?

      " The non Jewish population of the region at the time "

      By "region" do you mean just the Hebron district, or the whole of Palestine? And does "at the time" mean the period from the burial of Abraham to the arrival of the Muslims, or just some part of that?

      "were either Bedouin or simple village farmers"

      And how do you know this?

      " and had no collective identity "

      Why is this "collective identity" thing so important to Zionists? Do you think that people without a "collective identity" have no rights, or that they don't really exist?

  • Intersectional feminism: Wonder Woman, Palestinians, Wakanda and Zionism
    • Indeed not, Mooser. But I don't think Keith was suggesting that coarse men were responsible for the "masculinization of feminism".

    • Sandler should be banned anyway, regardless of his political views. The combination of corn syrup and Adam Sandler films is destroying the few brains Americans are born with.

  • No anti-Zionists allowed on Hadassah panel exploring 'tension' between feminism and Zionism
  • Orientalism, intersectionality, and the 'New York Times'
    • No, I wasn't trying to find anything to criticize about BLM. I'm trying to understand how the BLM independent use of language counts as intersectionality.

      From my point of view, BLM can use any language they choose to indulge in without checking with anyone. If the rest of us don't like it, we can damn well tell them. And they, in turn, will probably tell us what to do with our complaints.

    • I don't see any truculence or condescension in Dan's replies. He is trying to clear up my confusion about intersectionality. (And, no, I am not trying to misunderstand him. I genuinely don't understand how BLM's independence in the language is an example of intersectionality. )

    • Yes, I did skip over the quotation marks. It was the article you quoted, not you, that said that BLM had pro-Israel allies.

      "By “singly” did you mean “independently” i.e., that they did not consult with anyone before issuing their statement? "

      Yes, and that therefore they did not consider "issues of class, race, gender, and identity” that the alleged allies would want them to consider.

    • I don't know much about BLM. You were the one who mentioned BLM's pro-Israel allies, so I took your word for it that there were some. If you want a list, you will have to compose it yourself.

      I simply pointed out that BLM's independence in the matter of language doesn't seem like intersectionality as defined in the article.

      (And, so far, intersectionality seems like another example of the corn syrup and Sandler effect. But I am open to arguments to the contrary.)

    • I think you make a good point about language, but your example seems to go against intersectionality.

      "the black activists didn’t check that language ahead of time with their pro-Israel allies and then change the language"

      That sounds as though they addressed the social injustice singly.

    • "As I understand it, intersectionality is the idea that social injustices cannot be addressed singly without considering issues of class, race, gender, and identity."

      And yet many social injustices have been so addressed, with notable success. There were few feminists in the British Parliament when the Slave Trade Act (1807) and the Abolition of Slavery Act (1833) were passed. The slow increase in those eligible to vote first considered class, and only later gender and (for Australia) race. Identity was never considered, probably because the reformers had no idea what that could mean.

      "intersectionality is obviously the reigning Mood of the Left right now, and if you want to be in the left you must at the very least respect this political culture"

      There's a left?

      There is certainly a totally ineffectual pseudo-left who chatter about this sort of thing, but old socialists like myself do not feel obliged to join.

  • How 1967 changed American Jews
    • "only leftists are thoughtful, and everything else is propaganda"

      Who (aside from you) said that?

  • Making the crossover from Elie Wiesel to Marc Ellis
    • Veterans Today Is a totally different website. The MW moderators have no responsibility for that. They can only act on instances of AS and HD on MW.

    • "Anti-Semitism and Holocaust denial are specifically prohibited according to the “comments policy ” of this forum. Rather loosely enforced, I would say… "

      It would help the moderators if you could spell out any instances of Anti-Semitism and Holocaust denial. Are there any on this page?

    • "Citizen is unashamedly citing two blatantly Anti-Semitic, Holocaust-denying ,websites."

      Irrelevant. It does not make any difference to this issue whether the site is ASHD or not.
      The important question is whether or not the claims about Wiesel are true or not.
      Are the claims supported by evidence or not?
      Do you have any evidence to the contrary?
      Deal with those sort of questions, rather than simply whining about the ideology of the websites.

  • New website sets Zionist myths vs. the historical record
  • Campaign to stop Linda Sarsour from speaking at CUNY was an epic flop
  • 'To live or to perish' -- Norman Finkelstein on the Six-Day-War and its mythology
    • "Yemini argues that African men should be transferred out of Israeli cities and into desert detention centers, in order to prevent romantic relationships between them and Jewish Israeli women, specifically, Black Jewish Israeli women."

      Specifically the black ones because the white Jewish Israeli women have all been seduced by the poetry and flowers technique employed by those swarthy, unshaven, Arab men?

  • Oren sees 'radical implosion' of US Jewish support for Israel -- then calls Palestinian polygamy 'existential threat'
    • They do, Mooser. They do.

    • Since I was living in what had been part of the British Empire, I remember the process of decolonization through the mid 50s to the 60s. Quite a few bits of the Empire had been let go before 1960 (Transjordan, India, Ceylon, Burma, Newfoundland, Malaya, Gold Coast, Sudan) but 1960 was the year of Macmillan's "wind of change" speech, and independence for the rest of Britain's African colonies quickly followed.

    • It’s “toe the line”, not “tow the line”. The idiom refers to RN sailors standing rigidly with their toes on a line on the deck while an officer decides how many lashes to give to defaulters.

      Nothing to do with towing.

      I bet Putin knows that.

  • Israel provoked the Six-Day War in 1967, and it was not fighting for survival
    • It is time for me to put on my pedant's hat* and re-visit the distinction between preventative attacks and pre-emptive attacks.

      A preventative (or "preventive") attack is one that attacks a potential enemy before that presumed enemy has intiated any attack, before any attack is know to be imminent, before any such attack is know to have been planned. The aim is to inhibit the presumed enemy's ability to mount an attack.

      A pre-emptive attack is one made to anticipate an attack that is intended and under way, but has not yet been delivered.

      During a war these concepts are not problematic.

      The enemy has an Air Force base on Plunk island. No attack has yet been mounted from that base, nor is there any sign that an attack is intended, but I send my marines to capture the base to make sure that no attack will come from there. This is a preventative attack.

      The enemy is mustering tanks and troops on my southern flank. I bomb the tanks before the muster is completed. This is a pre-emptive attack.

      But if there is no war, it gets a bit trickier.

      Some cases are clear. County A is building up its forces. Eventually, and perhaps soon, they will be strong enough to defeat my forces. I attack country A to make sure it doesn't get the chance to defeat me. This is a preventative first strike. It is not morally permissible.

      But some are not so clear. Country A has its army lined up in invasion formation right on my border. If they really are going to attack, it is permissible for me to make a pre-emptive attack.
      The trouble is that it is very difficult to be sure that a first strike is pre-emptive, since it is difficult to be certain that the enemy's manoeuvres will actually turn into a real attack. If no actual invasion was intended, my first strike will be aggression, and not permissible.

      Furthermore, even if a state of war officially exists, but there is no fighting going on, and no immediate prospect of fighting, a pre-emptive attack to start the fighting would not be permissible. For example, it would not be permissible for either North Korea or South Korea to mount such an attack. Similarly for Liechtenstein and Prussia.

      Of course, in 1967 the Israelis knew that no attack was imminent.

      (*I took it off for a couple of minutes, and felt naked without it.)

  • How Israeli moves in Jerusalem are scotching Trump's 'ultimate deal'
    • "Enjoy the Zionists’ obscene, disgusting, inhumane, illegal, blood drenched party."

      Sounds like a good night out. Script by John Webster.

      "The U.S. will inevitably have no option other than to end it."

      After trying everything else, no doubt. But I'm not as optimistic as Mooser.

    • "COLLAPSE of Israeli/Israeli Lobby domination of the American political landscape. "

      Yeah, sure. Any minute now.

  • Diaspora Jews go to Palestine to fight the occupation
    • Yonah, from a scientific point of view, I can claim to be the centre of the universe.

      As far as I can tell, the universe extends equally far from me in every direction. This can only be the case if I am at the centre. The universe revolves around me.

      Of course, as with nearly all scientific claims, this claim is provisional. Perhaps, at some time in the future, some astrophysicist will prove that the universe is eight inches to the left of where I think it is. That would spoil everything.

  • If Trump is serious we may be seeing the most significant step in 20 years of Israeli-Palestinian negotiations
    • Kaisa,

      "And you can just guess how “hard” it has been for me to be a Finn who doesn’t like alcohol. "

      So you don't accept the basic values on which Finnish society is built?

  • In groundbreaking resolution, California Democratic Party decries US support for Israeli occupation
  • Triumphalist light show in Jerusalem weaponizes the city walls to celebrate 50th anniversary of Jewish conquest
    • There's a bit of well-concealed history. I know that British Empire forces conquered Jerusalem 100 years ago, and that Christian forces conquered Jerusalem in 1099, but I've never heard of this Jewish conquest around 1017. Can you direct me to a source where I can read about it?

    • Thank you for guiding me to that article. I thought that Yonah and hophmi were a bit unhinged with their "all anti-Semitism all the time" whining, but now I see they are just mild cases. The author of that article is totally nuts.

  • Baby 'Aya' is only 2 months old, and she’s already a victim of home demolition
    • Might as well start young. That's the way things are going to be for a long time yet, so the sooner she gets used to being a non-person, without rights, the better.

  • Liberal Jews stage sit-in to block annual 'Jerusalem Day' march into Muslim Quarter
  • Leonard Cohen song is anthem of Jewish exclusivists
    • Mooser, that seems to imply that we can't tell who isn't a Jew. And that raises the possibility that I might be a Jew! Maybe I can make aliyah, and go and push Palestinians off their land.

      Suddenly Zionism doesn't seem so bad any more.

      But wait! If I could be a Jew, so could those Palestinians, and then pushing them off their land would be a breach of tribal solidarity. Real Jews would never do that.

      So I'll carry on thinking I'm not a Jew for the moment. Unless a better offer comes up.

    • Susannah's tea and oranges were well known, even in Australia, way back when RoHa was young. (Shortly after the break-up of Gondwanaland.) But I don't recall anything else from him for a very long time, so perhaps his moment of greatest international fame preceded your lifetime.

      Unless you are a cantankerous old git as well.

    • I'll take Manhattan, the Bronx and Staten Island, too. But perhaps not Berlin.

  • Wall of shame
    • Very bad indeed, Mooser.

      You are probably right, but that just makes you even worse.

      Hang your head in shame.

  • Trump may want a deal, but Israeli Jews are not interested
    • Perhaps the Syrian presidential election doesn't bear a semblance of democracy, but the Iranian presidential election and the Iranian municipal elections (415 women among the newly elected councillors) certainly do. The Turkish elections used to, and the Lebanese elections might, if anyone could understand them.

      Now I'm sure you want to say that none of them are as democratic as Israel, but, even if that is so, you are simply shifting your goal posts.

      (And falling back on the "best of a bad bunch" justification, too. Eljay won't accept that.)

      Nor, as others have pointed out, is democracy a guarantee of virtuous conduct.

  • A tale of two cities
    • Hophmi, are you suggesting that the story about the Parushim is false?

      If so, argue that point. Present cogent criticisms and counter evidence.

      Simply sniping at Ronald Johnson for drawing our attention to it does nothing to establish the truth, and makes you look as though you would suppress truth.

  • Beyond the 50th anniversary of the occupation: marking the 100-70-50-10 anniversaries with 'Together We Rise' curriculum
    • Why not start the graphic at 1897? That's 120 years since the First Zionist Congress in Basel.

  • The US and Israel: 'An integrated political system'
    • "Regarding White nationalism, I’m thinking of Richard Spencer and what he stands for–that America should be a country for those of white northern European descent and culture. "

      That's just the USA, not the West.

  • Reflections of a daughter of the '48 Generation'
    • It will surprise you to learn that I, well known as a grumpy, cynical, old misanthrope, do not believe that anyone's racism is irreversible.

  • Internet 'redresses' Miri Regev's 'capture of Jerusalem' themed gown at Cannes
    • Well, if you think mā, má, mă and are all the same word then it is no wonder you had trouble with Chinese. It’s rather like me thinking that jari and jaari, or kala and kalla are the same word. (I made those words up. If I am accidently saying something rude in Finnish, I apologise.) If you think of tone as part of the word, and not something added to it, it becomes a lot easier.
      Yes, there are rather a lot of characters to learn. If you know about the structure and etymology, then you can see the patterns in them, and that becomes a lot easier, too. But I still keep reaching for the dictionary.
      (Incidentally, most Chinese prepositions are verbs. For location they are frequently bolstered by a location word, which acts as a postpostion.)

    • I had nothing against prepositions when I was a child in primary school. I quite liked them. Useful little words, I thought.

      It was high school that changed my attitude, for then I started learning Latin. I discovered that, in place of prepositions, Latin frequently used case endings, and had a bunch of different ones for different classes of words. And not only on nouns, but also, for reasons I have never understood, on adjectives. I had to learn them all. I was barely thirteen, and had already entered my declining years.

      To make it worse, Latin also had a bunch of prepositions, which sometimes acted like English prepositions, and sometimes didn't. And when I learned Swedish, I found that you couldn't trust Swedish prepositions either. I am now deeply suspicious of all prepositions, and keep a close, baleful, eye on the blasted things.

      But don't start getting smug about postpositions. I don't know about Finnish postpositions, but I can assure you that Japanese postpositions do not always behave themselves.

      So I can fully understand you having problems with the blasted things. Americans make it harder for you because they spatter totally superfluous ones around the place, and can't tell the difference between "in" and "out", and "on" and " off".

      Do remember, though, that a preposition is something you should not end a sentence with.

      Japanese has fewer vowels than Finnish, but it does have the distinction between single and double length vowels and consonants. Stress is pitch, rather than volume. No declension, but some of the adjectives are conjugated like verbs, and some aren't. And you have to learn the honorific forms as well as the plain forms.

      You see why everyone should speak English?

    • But your main point, that the Zionists don't want to think of the Palestinians as ordinary people, still stands.

      (And my wife, who has lived and worked in English speaking countries for at least half her life, and has degrees from US and Australian universities, still sometimes stumbles over "a/an" and "the". She takes a deep breath before tackling "parallel corollary".

      I refuse to tell you what my Japanese is like, aside from admitting that it is almost entirely unlike Japanese.)

    • Kaisa,

      I fear the people = I think the people will do nasty things to me = jag är rädd för folket

      I fear for the people = I think nasty things will happen to the people = jag är rädd om folket

      Confused me when I was learning Swedish. Damned prepositions.

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