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  • 'Disappearing Palestine' maps must spotlight Jaffa
    • So Jacob managed to have children all by himself, without any help from Mrs Jacob. And his sons married his daughters, and their children married their siblings and cousins, and so it went on. All Jews are direct descendants of Jacob and have no other ancestry.

    • "The Partition Plan was never implemented, so obviously it did not lead to war. The rejection of the Partition Plan is what led to war. "

      It was clear that the Partition Plan would lead to war. It wasn't quite so clear that rejection of the plan would lead to war rather than more discussion. But the Zionists started the war anyway.

      "The Arab side also deserves our awe and wonder for its courage in being the only case in the history of the UN in which someone decided to go to war in order to prevent the implementation of a UN decision. "

      Wrong. It was the Zionists who went to war. When they crossed the lines of the UN Plan, they prevented the implementation of the UN suggestion. That was when the Arab states intervened, to try to stop the Zionists from taking the whole of Palestine.

    • Repeating a point that I have been making recently, I'll say again that it was clear that any partition would lead to war and ethnic cleansing , as the Zionists worked to expand and purify their Jewish state. This alone was a good reason for rejecting the partition plan.

    • "I’m sure that Ben Gurion did not expect the partition plan to be put into effect. He expected a war."

      He intended a war to conquer the rest of Palestine and chase away the native population.

      Pretending to accept the partition plans was lying and deceit.

      "Whereas the sentiment of statehood in 47-48 had some compelling immediate history backing it up, 70 years later that context is no longer immediate, so most do blame the Zionists for establishing a state using such means. I do not. "

      But the plan to establish the state by such means was made long before that "compelling immediate history".

      Israel was evil in conception, and evil in creation, as well as evil in conduct. That you cannot recognise this shows a depressing moral blindness.

    • The Zionists' intent was clear from the start. But if anyone failed to get the message, Ben Gurion made it blatantly obvious when he urged the Zionists to accept the Peel partition plan. He declared that, once the Zionists had that small state, they could expel the Arabs and use it as a base to conquer the rest of Palestine.
      The Zionists never intended to keep any agreement for partition or anything else that would prevent them from total domination of Palestine.

  • Palestinian medic, 21, is killed by Israeli sniper as she tends wounded in Gaza
  • How an anti-Semitic US law helped bring about Israel's creation
  • Genesis Prize threw Natalie Portman under the bus to protect Netanyahu
    • And, of course, there's this. I think it is a suitable close to this thread.

      https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_uukBpYD9PU

    • Citizen, DB mentioned Gaul, so Mooser and I immediately thought of "Gallia est omnis divisa in partes tres, quarum unam incolunt Belgae, aliam Aquitani, tertiam qui ipsorum lingua Celtae, nostra Galli appellantur", as anyone would. Surely you remember that from your Latin classes.

    • "so-called agricultural crime "

      So called? If it isn't agricultural crime, what is it?

    • "a simple movie actress-or star in America-who is Israel-american has a lot of gaul”

      Belgica, Celtica, or Aquitania?

  • Israeli court approves destruction of Bedouin village, despite Congressional and EU protest
    • "abandon our two countries shared values of justice and respect for human rights,”

      The shared value is the lack of respect for justice and human rights.

  • Conflicting dreams and realities: Amos Oz in Rochester
    • A deal? Yonah, a deal with Israel is not worth the time is takes to say the word. The Israelis will ignore it as soon as it is made.

    • "We don’t tell the politicians how to run things."

      I do, but the idiots ignore me.

  • 'No one is happy with 60 killed' -- Ehud Barak comes to redeem Israel
  • Joyless in Zion
    • Mooser, are you thinking about quality or quantity? If the latter, I think at least some of the Zionist commenters are fulfilling their quotas.

    • "Israeli flags on district court in East Jerusalem"

      Long hanging banners with an emblem in the centre. Looks familiar.

    • "A man dressed in the uniform of the Irgun, a Zionist militia, on Jerusalem Day, May 13, 2018,"

      should be

      "A man dressed in the uniform of the Irgun, a Zionist terrorist group, on Jerusalem Day, May 13, 2018,"

  • Tom Friedman has advice for Palestinians: Embrace Zionism
    • Nathan,
      Two points of lesser importance.
      1. To fit the I/P situation, your school analogy has to be that the teacher really is unfair and biased against the pupil. The pupil’s parent then has to say “You can’t change the teacher, and he’ll never give you an A. Face up to that, and try to do so well that even this teacher will grudgingly give you a C-. “

      2. I know you don’t want to see excuses for all the decisions of the Palestinians, and I will say that I think they do make mistakes.
      Nonetheless, it is not right to accuse them of insisting on war when they were not prepared for it. War was forced upon them.
      They had good reason to believe that accepting the partition plan would lead to war, not avoid it. When the Peel partition plan was proposed, Ben Gurion wanted to accept it on the grounds that the proposed Peel Jewish state would be a base from which the Zionists could then conquer the rest of Palestine, and made it clear that the Arab population of the Peel state would be expelled.
      So obviously the Zionists would do the same with the state proposed in the 1947 partition plan. (And they did. They started expelling the Arabs and expanding the Jewish state straight away. )
      Rejecting the partition plan, and repeating the call for an independent state of Palestine, "with protection of all legitimate Jewish and other minority rights”, offered at least the slight hope that the UN would re-think the matter and find a way to avoid the violence.
      They were wrong about that. The Zionists did not wait for a re-think, but set about their war.

    • Nathan,

      Two very important points.

      1. You keep talking about a deal to end the conflict with Israel.

      But Israel will not end the conflict.

      The Palestinians are desperate to end the conflict. The Palestinians have tried compromise. They have tried negotiation. They have offered to agree to a 78% - 22% deal in Israel’s favour. They tried the Oslo agreements.

      But Israel will not keep the agreements.

      Israel wants all of Palestine, and wants the Palestinians to die, or, at least, just shut up and go away and never bother them again.

      What deal can the Palestinians make with Israel?

      2. The correct form for a counterfactual conditional in English is:

      If [past perfect tense] then [would have + past participle]

      So you should write

      “It would have been a breath of fresh air … if someone … had expressed some criticism…”

      You do not need to give up your Zionist principles to get it right.
      Zionist William Safire (of the NYT) gave his imprimatur to the correct form while fulminating about the incorrect forms he saw.

      And it is quite easy.

    • "Unpack the components of nationhood and you find all but one of them for centuries in the Jewish case. "

      As a matter of technical interest, I would like to see those components unpacked, so that I can know what "nationhood" means. And then I would like to see a demonstration that they apply to the Jews.

      But, more importantly, I will point out that no account of "nationhood" will serve as a justification for the evil the Zionists have committed. Their conduct is simply inexcusable.

    • As soon as possible. But we'll let them off if they'll just shut up and go away and never bother us again.

  • They prayed for Gaza's dead. Now it's time to say the mourner's prayer for Zionism
    • A bit off topic, but i was reading an article about RFK and came across this line in the Orlando Sentinel:

      "the Sirhans were Christian Palestinians forced from their Jerusalem home by Israel in 1948."

      Oops! You aren't supposed to say such things in a US newspaper. Someone will get knuckles rapped.

      http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/nationworld/ct-bobby-kennedy-second-gunman-20180526-story.html

    • @Robert,

      Some of the tough love you are facing here stems from the fact that the overall concern of your article seems to be that of "rescu[ing] Judaism, and the Jewish community in Britain" from Zionism.

      Many of us think that rescuing the Palestinians from Zionism is a teeny bit more urgent and important. We find the angst of British Jews is a slightly less compelling issue than the slaughter, torture, dispossession, and ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians.

      And some of us (famously, me) do not give a hoot what happens to Judaism.

      So, although it is good to see a repudiation of Zionism, and you are to be applauded for leading a revolt against it, we would like it to be to save the Palestinians rather than to comfort British Jews.

  • Israeli ambassador lodges anti-Semitism complaint against Dutch song mocking Israel's human right record
  • Gaza killings are rending the Jewish community
    • It's true. Royal Dutch Shell has made a few messy oil spills that needed cleaning.

    • "I wish the mainstream media would occasionally remind us of what was in fact the worst mass slaughter of humans in modern history."

      Misterioso, how many Western newspapers, TV stations, film studios, and politicians do the Congolese own? Precious few.

      What political advantage can be gained from telling this story? Not a lot.

      So don't expect the MM to mention it.

    • "While some Gazans were heeding calls to breech the separation fence,"

      Should be "breach", of course.

    • Let them be rent. I don't care.

  • Falsely accusing Palestinians of anti-Semitism is malicious
    • The article says "Despite this, the Allied Powers did very little to try and rescue or provide sanctuary to those in mortal danger."

      Fighting hard against the Nazi regime counts as very little? The British Empire threw everything it had into the fight. Britain itself was just about bankrupt at the end*. The Soviet Union paid an enormous price in blood. Even the USA lost lives and treasure. What more were they supposed to do?

      "Viscount Cranborne, a minister in the war cabinet of Winston Churchill, said the Jews should not be considered a special case and that the British Empire was already too full of refugees to offer a safe haven to any more"

      And why should Jews be considered a special case? What reason is there for giving them preference over Gentile refugees from the Philippines or China or Greece?

      The article looks like another "wag the Holocaust to deflect criticism of Israel" production.

      (*Massive amounts of gold were sent to the USA to pay for material. British-owned companies in North America and piles of commercially valuable scientific and technological information were handed over the US ownership as further payment.)

    • Kathleen, millions of people in the British and French Empires responded pretty quickly. Do those millions not count as people? Or don't their actions count as a response?

    • "a necessary condition for indictment and conviction is the relative racial status of accuser and accused."

      You are probably right. Still might be worth a try, though.

    • "As a teenager endlessly read about WWII. I would sob uncontrollably often calling out “why was it that people did not respond” to the millions of Jews, Poles etc etc were being murdered by the Hitler killing machine. "

      That's odd. The things I read about WW2 made it clear that people did respond, and gave detailed descriptions of the responses in the form of total war against the Hitler killing machine and resistance movements in the occupied areas.

    • Nonetheless, since we have these evil "hate speech" laws imposed on us, it might be worthwhile to use them.

      When someone says "Arabs/Palestinians/MW contributors/BDS supporters are anti-Semites", accuse that someone of hate speech.

      As far as I can tell (and I have not made a study of the laws in the various jurisdictions) accusation is sufficient for conviction, and truth is no defence. This latter point is important for those jurisdictions in which any criticism of Israel is officially deemed to be anti-Semitism.

  • Documenting Palestinian invisibility for 40 years -- an interview with James Zogby
    • "the immigrants shouldn’t have come to Palestine, that they had no right to found a Jewish state? That seems to be the point of so many articles and comments on this website,"

      It is the point because it is true, and only by acknowledging that truth can the steps to justice be taken.

      "and the unspoken message is that it must all be undone."

      Not from most of us. Most of us do not envisage all the Jews leaving Israel. Our message is that Israel needs to change, so as to stop persecuting Palestinians, give full rights to all Palestinians, and make as just a reparation for past wrongs as is possible.

      "I think that it’s in the best interest of the Palestinians to end the conflict with Israel..."

      Ending a conflict requires all parties to agree to end it, or for all but one of the opposing parties to be completely annihilated. Israel seems to prefer the second alternative. The seizure of land, of houses, the destruction, and the ethnic cleansing have not stopped. Israel is continuing the conflict.

      "and to strike a deal."

      The Palestinians tried that. When they agreed to the Oslo accords, they bent over backwards to accommodate Israel. But Israel broke the agreement.

      Right now, it seems that the only deal Israel would keep is "Give us everything and go away, and we might let you live. Until we decide we want the place you have moved to, of course."

      Do you have any ideas about what sort of deal the Palestinians could make?

    • "It would be helpful if they would be able to understand how others (i.e. the Jews) see reality. "

      should be

      "It would be helpful if they could/were able to understand how others (i.e. the Jews) see reality. "

      The Palestinians know how Jews see the world. They suffer the results of that view every day. How can any greater understanding help?

      "Most importantly, it would be a good idea to think in terms of reaching a deal... "

      How can they reach a deal with Israelis when the Israelis won't keep a deal?

    • "The idea of founding a Jewish state was about founding a state for the Jews – just as the Polish state was founded for the Poles. "

      The Polish state was founded largely on land that had been occupied by a majority of Polish speakers for centuries.

      The Jewish state was founded on land that that had been occupied by Palestinian Arabs for centuries.

      (Both states did start attacking their neighbours as soon as they were formed, so there is a similarity.)

      "...one should at least be able to understand that the Jews do think that they are a people entitled to statehood."

      We understand that. They are wrong. No "people" is entitled to statehood.

      "The Arabs don’t agree that the Jews are a people, but"

      they mostly don't agree that Jews are more important than Arabs, that Jews are allowed to steal land and kill Arabs, or that they are allowed to lie about the whole business.

  • Rob Malley and Chris Hayes can't talk about Adelson's influence in scrapping Iran deal
    • Gamal, are you suggesting that we should learn a bit about the topic before we form rigid opinions? That's not the done thing, you know.

    • "another one [lesson] we commonly get growing up: that Israel is our homeland. Whoever you are, if you are Jewish, when you go to Israel, you are home. ... I internalized a belief that Israel was the land of the Jews, and when the Jews came back to reclaim it in the 20th century...

      If I suggest that Jews are more loyal to Israel than to the country of their birth and citizenship, I get accused of using one of those anti-Semitic tropey thingies.

      But Jill Richardson says that, as part of her Jewish upbringing, she was taught things that would lead to greater loyalty to Israel.

      Are we now allowed to knock one item off the list of forbidden ideas?

    • Mooser, I'm sure it was impressive, but perhaps not entirely trustworthy.

      If you set the programme for Falkirk pronunciation, you will believe everything it tells you.

      https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/leading-article-voices-with-an-accent-on-trust-1302765.html

    • And in the context of the world, there is no left in America.

    • "Two leading figures on the American left..."

      Assumes facts not in evidence.

  • Israel detains Palestinian teen with severe head injury, again
    • Considering the large number of injured Palestinian children, I think it would be wise to ban them from owning bikes. That Israeli soldier who took a bike from a little girl was doing her a favour.

  • Life in Gaza
  • UN head says Gazans 'caged in a toxic slum from birth to death' as human rights council votes to investigate Israel
    • "While the world stands by" fits Gaza, but not the Warsaw Ghetto. A largish chunk of the world was rather busy fighting the perpetrators of the latter.

    • "Smoch alai !"

      Is that like Jai Alai, but with kissing?

  • Protesting is not enough
    • "...Palestinians mean by “Al Nakba is ongoing today.” Our catastrophe is not a historical moment that happened in 1948, and can be relegated to the past. Palestinians today are not only commemorating a wrong committed last century, we are protesting the fact that there has been no justice since, only an increase in our dispossession."

      This is a point that needs to be pushed more and more.

      Bedouin villages are destroyed.
      Palestinians are forced from their homes in Jerusalem.
      "Settlers" drive Palestinian farmers off the land.

      The ethnic cleansing hasn't stopped.

  • Hundreds gather in Boston to protest Gaza killings and 70 years of ethnic cleansing in Palestine
  • On Gaza: The end will continue
    • Good friend, though. And fine wine.

    • "Palestinians have been oppressing Jews for centuries"

      Let us suppose, for one giddy moment, that this is actually true.

      It means that the Zionists encouraged Jews to migrate to a place where they would be oppressed. At least foolish, if not downright evil.

      (And, of course, that oppression did not give foreign Jews any rights to Palestine whatsoever.)

      "and now Palestinians oppress Israelis."

      The poor dears. Those helpless Israelis should flee to somewhere safe. I would recommend the USA or Canada. (But not Australia.)

    • No answer to my question? I've asked several times, but only W Jones attempted to explain it. It would be nice if Ellis could actually define the strange term. It looks like an adjective, but he uses it as a noun.

    • '“Jewish” is the root of the global prophetic. '

      What is the global prophetic?

  • Donald Trump is a hero to Jewish Israelis
    • Echi, depressing thought.

    • Mooser, the software correction for "tzitzis" was even more inappropriate for men.

    • Echi, you may not say "sticky wicket" in your barbarous, cricket-deprived, wastelands, but surely you have read the term often in P.G. Wodehouse and other English Lit.

      The same goes for most of the other terms which JLD defines. I don't mind him doing it. I'm just curious as why he feels the need.

    • Maybe Rugby, like Flashman.

      The predictive text is on my iPad. I don't know how to turn it off. (I'm assuming by "off" you mean "off" and not "on".)

      Homonyms prowl round the house all night, and keep me awake with their howling.

    • Off topic.

      A matter of curiosity, JLD.

      I've noticed that you very frequently give definitions of common words and phrases (such as "sticky wicket") even when they are being used in the standard way. Why is that?

    • Mostly I fight against predictive text.

      You'd be shocked if you heard me speak. My accent makes people (British as well as Australian) think I went to a posh public (i.e. private) school in Britain. Actually, I went to perfectly ordinary state schools in Adelaide.

      So, unlike every other Australian, I don't sound quite like Crocodile Dundee.

    • "Donald Trump is leading a political revolution in the United States. "

      It doesn't look like it from this side of the world. As far as I can tell, Trump drowned in the swamp in his first thirty days. He is now a zombie mouthpiece for the Deep State.

      "This session will involve a psychoanalysis of Trump and his supporters, an explanation of his popularity, and what it says about the USA."

      We don't need a conference to tell us that Americans are nuts. We've known it for years.

    • "V. And all its empty promises and dead Jews ? "

      Are they not part of the "works" rejected in the previous line?

      If you want to specify, why not "And all its empty promises and murders, rapes, destruction, and overall misery?

      "V. Do you believe in property rights, equality and justice ?"

      Tough for the more socialist Zionists. They may well want to argue that property rights are incompatible with equality and justice.

    • "Phil is sexist."

      So what? Does that mean that Trump isn't a hero to Israeli Jews?

      "Phil is Anti-Semitic."

      Similarly irrelevant. But also perhaps not true. Everyone knows what keffiyehs and hijabs are, but only a tiny minority have any idea what tzitzis are. (My predictive text and spell check predicted "keffiyeh" and " hijab". I won't tell you what it offered for "tzitzis". )

      So perhaps he was just being helpful to the majority. That is, readers like me, who have never heard of the things.

  • Debunking 18 claims justifying this week's Gaza massacre
    • It comes from the two basic principles of the Zionists.

      1. We matter and you don't.

      2. We must have a Jewish state in Palestine.

      This combination means that, in support of the Jewish state, any amount of harm can be done to non-Zionists. An appearance of moderated regret for the harm may be necessary to gain and maintain international acceptance, but an appearance is all it is.

  • Peace begins with Israel ending the Nakba
    • Dissembling is standard practice for Zionists.

    • "they must forfeit any right to self determination"

      They would have the same right to self determination as all the other citizens of the new state.

      "and they must allow for Israel itself to be completely dissembled."

      They must allow Israel itself to be disassembled.

      (No "for", and "dissemble" means "conceal or disguise one's true feelings or beliefs.")

      And since the current state of Israel is a Bad Thing, disassembling it would be a good start to building a better state.

  • Murder as a way to make a political point
    • "Can we shoot some refugees and immigrants at our southern border to make the political point that they are not wanted?"

      Not until they have crossed the border. You can't shoot them while they are still in Mexico.

  • For we are God's special victims (an ode to the state of Israel)
    • Mooser, he's discovered capital letters. Be thankful for that much progress. Who knows, maybe one day he will learn how to use commas.

    • '“But only the Palestinians adopted an ethos of rejectionism, victimhood, suffering and death.” If it were true ...'

      it would still be irrelevant.

      Regardless of whether or not the Palestinians have the wrong attitude, or have corrupt leaders, or have made mistakes, or all the other guff the Zionists peddle, the basic fact remains.

      The Zionists committed

      AND ARE STILL COMMITTING

      massive injustice against the Palestinians.

      And it is the Zionists who should provide redress.

  • West's failure to act will be cause of the next Gaza massacre
  • 'Today is one of the most tragic days in the history of the Jewish people': one American Jew's response to the Gaza massacre
    • Frankie,

      He isn't trying to cure them of their delusions. He quite possibly shares some of those delusions. He just wants the synagogue to be a little less supportive of Israeli mass murder.

    • I agree with all your points, Frankie. However, I will point out that Howard addressed this to the Israel Action Committee of his synagogue. He was obviously working on the principle that such people only care about Jews, and so made it as Judeo-centric as possible.

    • Annie, that is the sort of thing Donald should have said, instead of dragging out the "a" word.

      "i find that thought to be fundamentally extremist and paranoid. "

      General paranoia can save your life. You might not know who they are, but they are out to get you.

    • And Zionists spew out an awful lot of bull.

    • Donald, does Broadside's comment contain any factual errors?
      If it does, point them out.
      If the facts are correct, does his comment present the facts in a distorted or misleading fashion?
      If so, show this.
      Does he draw any unwarranted or illogical conclusions from the facts?
      Is he does, demonstrate his logical errors.

      But don't just whine "anti-Semitic", like a Zionist. You are better than that.

      It doesn't matter whether or not the comment is anti-Semitic. What matters is whether or not it is true.

  • On Nakba Day, Palestinians in Gaza explain why they joined the 'Great March of Return'
    • France for Frenchmen, and that includes French Jews, Armenia for Armenians , including Armenian Jews, Israel for Israelis, including Israeli Jews. Syria for Syrians, including Syrian Jews, ... and so forth.

      It is being a French citizen that makes someone a Frenchman. It is being a Syrian citizen that makes someone a Syrian. But no citizenship makes someone a Jew.

  • Nikki Haley blames Iran, Hamas for deaths of Palestinian protesters, as UN officials call to investigate Israel
    • "The GOP is dying"

      From my side of the world the Democratic Party doesn't look all that healthy, either.

      Save time. Dump them both now and make me your king.

  • A Reuters photographer from Gaza explains what it's like to cover the Great March of Return
    • "And does anyone really want to read this when it’s so tragic?"

      I certainly don't.

      But I think it is important for it to be published, and I admire your fortitude in sticking to it.

  • 1918, 1948, 2018: World War I, the Nakba, and the rise of ethnic nationalism
    • “an uncultured people that had stolen into the land, settling there for a mere fifteen hundred years, which are but a day and a half by the standards of the distant ‘historical’ tribes, in whose eyes a thousand years are like yesterday,”

      This is still the view of some of the Zionist contributors to MW. Jackdaw in particular.

  • Fighting Nakba denial
    • There is an important difference between the Holocaust and the Nakba.

      The Holocaust is over.

      The Nakba is still going on.

      The Zionists are still driving Palestinians from their homes, still destroying farms and villages, still killing, still stealing land.

  • 'America crossed every red line': Palestinians in Jerusalem protest new US embassy
  • 'Superpowers will not give us freedom so we will take it with our own hands': scenes from Gaza's final Friday protest at the border
    • Same old stuff. Jack can't even be bothered to correct the grammar.

    • " It’s the Palestinians who don’t let Jews vote or hold office or buy land."

      The Israeli Jews don't need to buy land. They can just steal it.

      'Hamas & Hezbolla use the word “Jew.”'

      So do you. So does the State of Israel, and its propagandists, when they peddle the idea of Israel as the "homeland" of all Jews. H and H are following the official line.

  • Ending seventy years of exile for Palestinian refugees
    • I know what you think negotiation of the refugee issue means.

      "The Oslo Agreement is, obviously, still valid."

      There may be aspects of the Oslo agreement that are still in place, but the various serious breaches mean that the agreement is now defunct.

      https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/12/oslo-israel-reneged-colonial-palestine
      http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2013/9/13/oslo-accords-explained.html
      https://www.breakingisraelnews.com/101671/palestinian-authority-chairman-abbas-oslo-agreement-dead/

      "... they can’t imagine negotiating an end of conflict with Israel."

      It is obvious that the only end to the conflict that Israel would agree to is one in which Israel gets everything and the Palestinians go away. Israel will lie, cheat, and break any interim agreement that does not achieve that end. (Shared values with the USA: can't be trusted to keep a deal.)
      So, as I said, not a lot of point in negotiating.

    • No-one cares what the Palestinians agree to. They have to be cleared out to make the place Jewish. Jews matter, others don't.

    • "Israel didn’t need an “agreed definition” in order to drive Palestinians out;"

      In order to be driven out by the Israelis, Palestinians had to fulfill two conditions:

      1. Not a Jew.
      2. In Palestine.

    • Why shush? All the victims of Zionism should be remembered.

    • "It does not specifically mention Palestinian refugees. It could be understood to include the Jews forced to leave the Arab countries."

      I suspect that is the way it should be read. Including Jews does not exclude Palestinians.

    • The process of ethnic cleansing of Palestine began before 1947, and is still going on. There is no sign that the Zionists have given up their goal of driving out all the Palestinians.

      So all this talk of "the children of the 48ers are not real refugees", and so forth, is just a way of trying to legitimate the past theft and ignore the present and future theft.

      Fine article here.

      https://electronicintifada.net/content/future-nakba/24236

    • Since Israel has violated the Oslo accords, they are now a dead letter. It is time for you to understand this.

      Even if we revive the Oslo accords and accept the idea of negotiation, I will point out that being prepared to negotiate does not abrogate the right of return. On the contrary, what is to be negotiated is a just solution, and justice requires the right to be recognised. The negotiations could be about how the right is to be realised, or about whether some Palestinians would rather give up the right in return for compensation.

      But I'm not sure what point there would be in negotiating with a party that will not keep any agreement.

    • It is a generalization based on observation of a lot of Zionists. You fit right in with your call for a legal right.

      People who understand morality know that moral rights are more important than legal rights when action is to be decided.

      People who only take legal rights into account work on the principle that legal rights can be enforced. This is, ultimately, appeal to force. Such a position shows a lack of understanding of morality.

    • Mooser, you are appealing to morality.
      By now you should understand that Zionists don't understand morality at all, and only understand legality when they can make the laws.

  • By wrecking Iran deal, Trump politicized Israel

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