Total number of comments: 52 (since 2012-01-21 23:31:50)
sardelapasti
My biography is nobody's business on the net. Only what one writes is open to discussion.
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click link to see last 100 comments- Slater on Beinart (9)
- radii: the train has left the station and a few like Beinart have noticed but think they can still run and catch it...
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- Talkback: They should make Gaza the most beautiful place just to p*** compulsory expellers off. Enviromental...
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"June 4 1967 was the day that doomed it"
Oh, so all the illegal occupation, armed provocation, mass murder, aggression and colonial ass-licking before that would not have had any consequences? Occupation does not pay if you are not an ascending, Empire. Gaul, Asia Minor, Scotland and Philippines are not comparable to the shitty little occupier's nest-fouling act.
Netanyahu is in another class: Indicted not for one, albeit monstrous, act of piracy, but for the Nurnberg crimes against humanity in different jurisdictions, like Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz etc. As long as no one is ready to risk one's life trying to effect a citizen arrest and we the retarded Americans bribe all governments to ignore the indictments, he'll travel...
The advantage with the Turkish indictments of subalterns is that they cannot just be filed away as some general attack against a head of state; they are solidly documented by postive proof of their direct guilt, so that any action to enforce them will have in theory to be supported on the basis of international police regulations.
Konzentrationslager... check.
Anrecht auf Lebensraum... check.
Herrenrasse... check.
Kulturvolk... ehm...
Worthless. Even a guy like Avnery gets it: all this leftwingery inside the Master Race section is nothing but social games aboard the Titanic.
"Not one mention in his diatribe about Palestinian rejectionism of an independent Jewish state"
So how about a Jim Crow state, a Bwana state, an Aryan state? So many things you no doubt also wanted to survive. I forgot that your Jewish state now is dual-purpose with Jim Crow state. Make that triple purpose, adding theocratic dictatorship. "Rejectionism" is way too gentle.
"Some of them reacted by seeing the necessity of countering the trauma with an affirmation of Jewish continuity, specifically by moving to Israel. "
1. What in "Israel" has anything to do with "Jewish" in any way or wise, except its fake name? (and everything to do, of course, with 19th-century Prussian nationalism)
2. Where is "Jewish continuity" in getting "Jewish" persons to emigrate, by hook, crook or armed provocation, to occupate other people's land and become war criminals, instead of remaining in their own countries to help rebuild them and stamp out Nazism (and related national dementia including Zionism)?
"Is this idea so contrary to your knowledge of human nature?"
The nature of invaders is more bestial than "human", word that many generally prefer to use for civilized behavior.
Well, he's left with a language that not only is the language of mass murderers and criminals against peace. It also is a constructed language, without direct living link to historic Hebrew and that has only had a "revival" within ultra-nationalist Zionist circles, a product of social engineering and political pressure. With less than a hundred years of mother-tongue use and a catastrophic end to native use already in sight, bets on the survival into the future of modern Hebrew are wide open.
Bullshit "choice".
Does anyone believe that Kristol was really talking about "statu quo" instead of a full-blown super-South Africa or, if necessary, full cleansing from non-"Jewish" elements? If yes, that person is unable to think.
Does anyone on the J-street side really believe that "Jewish state" can ever mean, in practice, anything else than what is summarily described above? If yes, that person is unable to think.
Where is the "terrorism" there? The occupied people have a fundamental right to any action they consider fit to fight the invader. And all of "Israel" is an occupation, in war against the invaded owners of the place. If the Nazis had massively settled "civilians" in France, Greece or Albania do you think they would have enjoyed immunity?
"This is google translate work so i apologize for the awful English"
Don't apologize, just go back to Russia asap. You personally weren't born in Palestine and your immigration is illegitimate.
«“And this man still passes for a liberal?”
Who considers this maniac a liberal?»
What the hell is a liberal? How is a "liberal" supposed to be any different from the other half-shades of his fellow racial supremacists? Does he strangle you rather than cut off your head?
"The only thing that might change this is if on election day my state (Georgia) appears to be up for grabs and the election at the national level is close."
In which case you'll vote "Democrat", signing off on and becoming a willing accessory to crimes against humanity, war crimes, fascism at home, the abolition of the rule of law, and, oh, all of the Zionist crimes. Should we say "thank you"?
Excellent paper, Mr. Weiss; better and more concise summary than by most people. But you don't need my praise. You are short of the goal, though: "Neoconservatism is dominated by rightwing Jews" .... No, they are not necessarily "rightwing" by your own criteria; do you know Perle's views on monetary policy, Wolfowitz's on abortion, Abrams' on corporate personhood? No, these guys are practically single-issue Zionists and some of them may well be on the "left" as per most so-called liberals' admittedly ludicrous criteria.
"because they are ultra-Zionists who believe in Israel's militarism..." why "ultra"? They are Zionists, and the most tepid of that ilk has to believe in the essential tenet's corollary: Israel's militarism. They wouldn't have achieved anything if all other Zionists, including non-ultra (and most all so-called non-Zionists) had not collaborated with them. "Part of their success was that they did their intellectual work." I have seen the word "intellect" dissed and demeaned very often, but almost never to that point. What's intellectual in instituting a reign of terror by using oodles of money and total control of the media ownership in the most corrupt country on earth?
Oleg:
Exactly as there are no innocent Israelian Jews in "Israel".
Not enough to speak of, anyway, and certainly way fewer than there were decent Germans in Nazi Germany.
Every one of the Master Race Israelians who did not actively resist continues to make a contribution to the Israelian Master Race's crimes against humanity, and you are one of them.
I don't see what exactly makes you so different than the ones you are attacking.
"tell me olerg, when you use the term ‘holocaust’ are you referring to millions of gentiles murdered by the nazis too?"
How can he? His ideology is undistinguishable from Nazism. In fact, it is the twin sister of Nazism grown out of early 18th Century romantic nationalism. But then,every time you say these obvious things people will censor and excommunicate you because the Zionists have no mass gas chambers --yet.
"I realize it’s a complex thing for jews, but hell, its been a complex thing for lots of folks coming here from lots of other places too. "
Well, no. "Israel"is not where they came from. They are not related to it in law be they Jewish, i.e. religious, or not. If they were doing like the "folks coming from other places" (many of said folks from the same, not other places) they would be concerned with their old countries, or their own culture and language (which the Zionists despise!), not a late-invented, parachuted country and a constructed language.
Eliot - "Jews who come out as anti-Zionist do not have a Jewish community of fellow anti-Zionists that they can join."
If you're religious, you'd need a propaganda-free congregation, but if you are not, what do you need a "Jewish community" for, except for Zionising?
"longtime progressive activist... most majestic performance at J St... speech was beautifully written, and beautifully delivered... Its thrilling surprise..."
After reading that, by the Editor, a clear answer to the following should be in order (even though we know inconvenient questions are censored on arrival):
- is the primary purpose of the site that of supporting the fight of the spoliated owners of the land or providing additional PR, pitched to the relatively more intelligent, for the Tribe's "image with a human face"?
- is fraternization with Zionists (good to see the number of readers who see through the propaganda garbage on "progressive Zionists", though) an objective?
"The ones who have most to lose from the collapse of the Israeli order are not these people- the sephardim , the Ashkenazi working class and the Orthodox will all be shafted because of the myopia of their elite."
Just the elite, and no mention of their own responsibility? That of emigrating into somebody else's country without the owner's permission, of willingly serving in the most brutal military invasion and occupation since WWII, that of consistently voting to continue Zionist oppression and profiting from it? They made their bed and it's time to lie on it.
'I pushed, "But they were German Jews, weren't they, Nana?"
She got a little mad for a second and said, "They were German."'
Damn right she should get mad at your pushiness!
Were you praying regularly with her parents so you'd know her religion?
If they were Germans well that's what they were. And no, if they were Germans they were not Yiddish-speakers, either. What on Earth is different about Germans who happen to be Jewish or Protestant or Catholic?
I know this question is merely a result of the moronic new generation of specifically American religion-obnubilated culture and ways of speaking. If you think a moment, though, it also is the kind of question which may express agreement both with the Nazi and the Zionist racial supremacist mythologies.
"...that the Israeli state is a fact and that it is a legitimate fact [within its 67 borders] and that any attempt to destroy that state would not garner much support"...
The second part of that sentence, i.e, that to receive a maximum of popular support one should keep one's target's narrow, is a given. There is no need for the first part, a pseudo-fact. One may consider the Zionist entity an illegal fact to be reversed asap (as I do) and at the same time agree that a broad front needs a very limited target (as I do not, but can understand.) There is absolutely no necessary link between these two positions.
Attributing some Zionism to Finkelstein only because he recommends narrow initial tactical goals may be a mistake if he has not, until now, endorsed any kind of "legitimacy" for the Zionist state. And stating something in name of "the majority of the world", when a majority has already expressed itself repeatedly against the imperialist powers' fake "legitimacy" for the Zionist state is ridiculous.
"Brandon Davis and Jesse Liebenfeld..."
Throwing together, on one side a young and courageous kid who already starts to understand the horror of tribal solidarity, with, on the other, an openly Zionist propagandist (even if fashionable, colorful and and homosexual) who is essentially preaching "moderation for the tribe's own good" is ridiculous. It only helps those who propagate the Zionist myth.
"Because Jews don't hear the obvious human-rights objections to the Jewish state and its nonstop ethnic cleansing."
If they are non-religious and call themselves "Jews", they cannot, almost by definition.
Tribal loyalty is opposed to belonging the the human race (as opposed to some cultural origin, which cannot be "Jewish" except if one swallows the Zionist absurdity.)
Many knew that right from the start. Others only understood it while coming of age at the occasion of one of the major crimes against humanity, 47, 48, 67, 73, 82....
There is also the statistical aspect of it: statistically speaking, we should even be ashamed to have Jewish names.
That's what makes things like the rear-guard actions by Zionists like Beinart so nineteenth-century and not worth a glance. Leave that kind of handwringing to the Zionist.
If you think that your tribal-loyalist censorship is doing you good, by all means go on. But at least be honest about it and have it in the open.
"If you tell people it’s ok to buy ‘Made In Israel’ when in fact it is settlement produce, then your boycott strategy is meaningless and ineffective"
In fact, little news items like this about falsification are piling up non-stop.
These are extremely useful in educating people who still believe that there is some kind of legitimacy in the Zionist entity but are fair enough to boycott settlement products. Considering the behavior of "GoI" it won't take long before these people decide by themselves not to be taken for a ride, stop researching each single item and just boycott the entire Light Unto Nations.
"people running the entry control points to Gaza could always take that doctrine to heart:
It is permissible to provide food on Shabbos for a Gentile..."
Yeah, depends what you consider food. We know for sure now that olives are not edible for Zionist invaders. Plastic toys, recently authorized for entry into Gaza, are perhaps food after all...
Thanks, Sumud. Am familiar with the quote, but it comes from the same book that recommends the restless genocide of the conquered, and it is a recommendation about how to do genocide.
Quoting the essentials od Deuteronomy 20 below: It says to practice pitiless, total genocide, but not cut any of those trees that you may later use yourself! A summary of uncamouflaged Zionist doctrine. This is what the religious Zionists are reading.
16 But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth:
17 But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee:
19 When thou shalt besiege a city a long time, in making war against it to take it, thou shalt not destroy the trees thereof by forcing an axe against them: for thou mayest eat of them, and thou shalt not cut them down (for the tree of the field is man's life) to employ them in the siege:
20 Only the trees which thou knowest that they be not trees for meat, thou shalt destroy and cut them down; and thou shalt build bulwarks against the city that maketh war with thee, until it be subdued.
A religious perspective on olive trees, as an aside:
Uprooting an olive tree was a major crime against the Gods in Greece: it takes up to 60 years to have a new tree bear good fruit. Olive trees belonged to the city, and each one was equivalent to a Temple of Athena. Whoever uprooted an olive tree without prior approval was an "elaiokopon". One of the very few major crimes punished with death.
Curses have been heaped on uprooters of olive trees, "true barbarians", during more recent history too (in the 20th Century, the Turkish settlers and the Nazi occupiers). The New Barbarians, the Zionists, have surpassed anyone in history.
"... described the IOF as a branch of the Israeli government… since neither the IDF or the Mossad or the Shin Bet are branches of the GOI,..."
Very, very original. So the Zionist entity has a state but the army, the spy department or the internal repression services are explicitly not part of the state. What next? I think that not even the Jesuits ever got to the point of inventing anything so original. You have me in stitches.
"so far as to compare Zionism to Nazism"
How is it "far"? Twin children of the same 19th-Century Prussian-inspired nationalism, with a common racist doctrine, the same Lebensraum concept of international aggression, the same glorification and practice of continuous warfare...
"The bigger question is “who cares?” Why is this of such importance to you?"
Because it is the pretext used, with absolutely no objective basis as you just acknowledged above, the phony pretext used by the murderous nationalists you belong to.
Because, as opposed to those non-religious Ostyiddish or (Spanish-speaking) Sefardí proper, etc. who have conserved their language and culture, any non-religious "Jews tout court" are joining the Zionist abomination just by declaring themselves part of such a recent nationalist invention.
Because of the non-religious "Jews" of the Zionist entity, where that qualification is equivalent to "White" in South Africa, or "Arian" you know where.
fact
All this is nice, but sticking to our comparison with the Catholics who walk out (of organized Church, mind you) it's worth repeating that the only anti-Zionist Jewish institution I heard of remains Neturei Karta.
Would be interested to hear of more, at least so late in the game. This being so, it is urgent that any non-Zionist Jew with a conscience walk out at once from the Synagogues.
"Personally, I call myself Jewish simply because I am. It’s my primary ethnic identity, but not because I chose it. I was born into a certain culture. Now I’m part of it."
Well, no. One more, huge, canard.
Do you speak Yiddish? Or Ladino? What specific culture are we talking about, among the many who are regrouped by their only and exclusively religious element? Or just a secular guy in an urban European environment? None of these is "Jewish" but specific.
Or are you one of those Americans who grew up post-WWII saluting an Israeli flag, acquiring a smattering, not of traditional Hebrew but of the constructed 19th-century language of the Zionist nationalists, and generally herding together in schuls without even having the excuse of being religious? If the latter, calling it "Jewish" is an insult to centuries of Judaism and calling it a "culture" an insult to culture. Call it by its name: Zionist.
"So in this world, I am actually marking myself as a Dark Age Tribalist, which is probably bad cause it sounds really scary. So I’m clearly bad."
No doubt, but you're not worth discussing with. I'm responding only to clarify the below:
" Yet the certifiable rabbis over at Neturei Karta are admirable!"
They certainly are courageous, steadfast, and in the Judaic tradition of respect for human beings. They braved beatings and uprooting by the armed Zionist entity, which they called usurpers at a time in which these were the flavor of the month. They were friends to the Palestinians when today's Anti-Zionist Zoinists were nowhere. They continue to be the only specifically Jewish (=religious) institution opposing Zionism, or close to the only one. As for "certifiable", for a lot of people anyone religious is certifiable in the meaning you use it; at least these babies are religious without becoming accessory to theft and murder.
"i too found it to be a weird ptv, as well as inaccurate for there are many ordinary jews not associated to Neturei Karta who practice judaism and are not zionists."
Just one thing, Annie, and still sticking to our parallel with the progressive Catholics who walk out: would you care to count the anti-Zionist congregations? Of course there might be some, but not one of the religious people I know seems to have heard of them. Obviously we are not talking about individual practices, but of places where people congregate and do whatever they do together.
Possibly you cannot see where the analogy is really apt:
Judaism, for any remaining religious people, is nothing but the handmaiden of Zionism (at the risk of almost-hijacking Mooser's apt characterization.) It's way late, for whoever among them wants to imitate the progressive Catholics, to "vote with their feet" and get out of the synagogues, nationalist and criminal headquarters --the fundamentalists among them can join the admirable Neturei Karta rabbis.
For those who are not religious, the very fact of calling themselves "Jewish" instead of by the name of their particular judaic-influenced subculture is a typically Zionist gesture and marks them as tribal figures, people out of the Dark Ages that get in the movement to try and save some of the old respect for the Tribe.
As for your comment board, I love it how you censor what pinches you even a little tight, while fascist propaganda is practically unlimited (at least as long as the Tribe isn't the victim.)
Wrong: a GA resolution is no such thing as a birth certificate, as per the Zionist entity government itself.
GA stands for General Assembly. As far as I understand, the only legal reason invoked by the Zionist entity government for ignoring the hundred(s) of resolutions enjoining it to stop aggression is that they are GA resolutions and not SC resolutions, not worth as such the paper they are written on.
"It’s bizarre when the US press and our officials keep repeating this nonsense..."
Come off that, please. You mean these mass murderers should not lie? It's OK for them to commit aggression, occupation, slaughter, torture, subversion of the rule of law, grand theft and sale of country to foreign powers, but lying? Knowingly? Oh no, not the straight bat, what? Tut-tut.
"This is a perfect example of an assimilationist attitude."
Exactly. Why not? If you are a human being, that's the only thing that counts. Except if you happen to be a religious kook or nationalist idiot.
"Why shouldn’t whites have to be “bothered” with their white identity, with Christian culture and values? Should they just give it up entirely as well?"
You betcha. Especially the white identity part.
" Why are we expected to be the ones to abandon our traditions and not you or anyone else? "
What traditions? Are you so deeply religious? Or are you talking about some picturesque Polish-Russian-Bessarabian old-country culture... oh sorry, I forgot how you guys despise your traditional mother-tongue language, too, you just compulsorily replaced it by some newly-engineered language!
In fact, the only identity that Zionists are defending is, to use your words, "their white identity". Just like the South Africans, Jim Crow, and these other guys we were not to mention.
Spoken like what every Zionist propagandist is: a shameless criminal. The illegal Zionist entity and its illegitimate racial supremacist state should of course say thank you for any offering, even for a single square foot of land, offered in compromise by the owners of the land.
"...America had a right to keep all Jewish settlers (aka “refugees”) out of America in the 1930s for whatever reason it chose"
The reason was, mainly if not entirely, very intense lobbying by the Zionist organizations of America, headed by a certain Rabbi Wise.
"He was talking as if there’s some real, tangible threat to be concerned about now with Israel nuking Iran generally..."
No sh... So the most aggressive, nuclear-armed, state post-1945, the one who brought you ongoing war since 1948 plus four major international aggressions, untold massacres, ongoing ethnic cleansing and continually repeated explicit threats of new wars, nuclear and non, does not represent a tangible threat?
Do your supervisors at the Propaganda-Abteilung seriously believe that we are all morons?
Thanks for the precision.
But then,
"Technically, Mizrahi Jews .... are distinct from Mughrabi ... and Sephardim, but “Mizrahi” is commonly used today to refer to most non-Ashkenazi Jews (including Arab, Persian, Kurdish, Georgian, etc.)"
this infuriating (and probably true) "commonly used today" is nothing but a result of that absurd Yiddish nationalism --Zionism.
"the Sephardi and Mizrahi Jews, who spoke Hebrew "
What's that?
The Sefardí speak Spanish. By definition (Sefarad=Spain/Iberia). The Mizrahi (Misr=Egypt) Arabic.
Hebrew was no one's mother tongue for over 23 centuries, until the Yiddish ultra-nationalists (Zionists) produced a constructed language based in large part (but loosely) on Hebrew and produced a first mother-tongue speaker for the constructed language in 1904.
"It’s also a way for secular, atheist Jews like, say, Alan Dershowitz or Sheldon Adelson..."
Time to debunk that nonsense too. There is absolutely no "Jewish" element in anything that is not religious. You could of course define some Jiddisch/Ostjiddisch or Sefardí element if the language were conserved, or even sometimes some specifically Bukhari, Maghrebi, Misri element as differing from its surrounding culture. None of these, however, can be called "Jewish" as they are unrelated except by religion.
So let's stop that. If they are nonreligious, then nationalist varmint like Dersh and Adelson are to be called Ashkenaze, plus the epithet of your choice. Not "Jewish".
Interesting, or sad, how some people are able to throw away the coalition potential represented by the need for effective solidarity of the spoliated people of Palestine just for the heck of riding their particular hobby-horses. Like their puritanical obsession with other peoples' sexual mores. Or their deadly opposition to any criticism of their tribal antics. Do you really want to continue to repel more and more sympathizers of the Palestinian cause just for the hell of indulging your own, Palestine-indifferent idiosyncrasies, until you are left with only Puritan-American Ashkenaze?
Unnecessary hemming and hawing. If a "Jewish state" were Kosher, an "Aryan state" would be too.
"The claim that I support the destruction of Israel is pure libel."
How so?
The destruction of a racial supremacist state is a commonly adopted humanist goal. It was achieved under our very eyes in the case of South Africa and before that, of Nazi Germany.
Would you advocate a return of the US to being a "White State"?
This is simply moronic. It just shows that you cannot understand the fundamental contradiction between people who reject every tribal loyalty and refuse any label except that of human being, and those who absurdly call themselves "Jewish" --even to the howling absurdity of "Jewish Marxists" (=Religious Communists??)
If you can't understand the difference, of course you'll never get a single word by Atzmon (even if you were reading in good faith.)
As a matter of fact, the Nazis had a much better claim on Sudetenland than the Zionists over (any of) Palestine; it had been the home of a substantial German population for over 600 years. Not that having a better excuse than the Zionists would excuse anything.
One little thing about the use of "Israel" for the colonial Zionist entity: using that religiously loaded word, which obviously carries some acceptance not to say recognition of the racial supremacist colonial occupier, is being used by the lobby to rouse the ignorants.
It also creates the impression that whoever uses the word somewhat agrees that there might be any connection between Judaism and Zionism.
The words to use are Zionist Lobby, Zionism-firsters, etc.
Whenever a Zionist even thinks of comparing any opposition to Nazism, he should always and immediately be challenged with an itemized list of what is common to Zionism and Nazism, from their common Romantic-Prussian nationalist origin to racial supremacism, from Lebensraum "justifications" to their comntempt for human life and international law, their love of war and their common propaganda methods.
Obviously the fact that Judaism is a religion and no more is central. A secondary point worth underlining is that the absurdity of that nationalism is compounded by the fact that there is not a single "Jewish" element common to Eskenazi, Sefardi, Mizrahi, Bukhari, Western Urban, etc., which is not strictly religious in origin. So even accepting to speak of "Jewish nationalism" about Zionism, as done by theoretically anti-Zionist people, is wrong. And offensive to the non-Yiddish-speaking.