Commenter Profile

Total number of comments: 15119 (since 2009-08-08 06:29:45)


I wonder where the struggle between universal human rights and - “A Jew is by the nature of his creation a purer being. Similarly with the holiness of the land: The soil of Israel is essentially holier, the stones are holier because the land was destined by God to serve as the place of the Children of Israel” is headed. - "Either we are all sacred or none of us is" - Paul Fourhorns Tenoso And what about this from David Shulman : "One has to bear in mind that Israelis live in a largely mythic world, a somewhat modified and vastly simplified version of the Iliad. In this starkly polarized vision of reality, in which Israelis are by definition innocent victims of dark, irrational forces operating against them, heroic death in war always makes sense, and violent coercion is the option both of necessity and of choice. The Hebrew proverb says: “If force doesn’t work, use more force.” BZU graduate. Big fan of hummus bil lahme and old style Jewish dissent. I believe that Judaism can do way better than Zionism, which is a dead end.

Showing comments 15119 - 15101

  • 'Palestine is an anxiety' for Americans-- Salaita in New York
    • Salaita rejects the ideal of “civility” that was offered by the university to justify his firing. -

      Civility is such a cop out .
      And Zionism is hardly civil.

      It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds" - Samuel Adams

    • "Salaita says that we should treat the conflict as familiar and unexceptional"-

      so true.
      Israel is just another grubby racist polity- no different to Northern Ireland pre 1991.
      Jewish bigotry is nothing special.
      Jewish torture is as banal as Israeli politicians, as grey as overwashed Israeli underwear.

  • Revisiting 'Graveyard of Numbers': Israel refuses to return remains of Palestinian militants as a punitive measure
    • Those special Jewish teams that scour death sites gathering the minutest pieces of flesh before sundown, so important it is for Jews to have everything for the funeral and Israel won't release bodies of Palestinains to families for burial, with the accompanying agony for grieving families - the rank hypocrisy of Zionism is so repugnant.

    • None of the punitive measures Israel impose whether retaining corpses, demolishing homes , torturing etc will deter Palestinians who have had enough. The cruelty is a communication with Yossi Israeli within the confines of the Hebrew bubble to assure him that the heinous crime against humanity of killing JEWS (with tefillin or not) OMG WTF will not go unpunished. Palestinians don't give a f$ck about Jewish sanctity as long as Jews kill Palestinians with impunity and that's just a normal reaction to bullshit.

    • link to

      "Last week, at the funeral of the three Jewish teens, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu spoke of the huge moral chasm between us and the Palestinians. "

      That is so laughable. There is a moral chasm alright but it is not as Zionist Jews imagine in to be.

      link to

      "Jerusalem Mayor Nir Barkat on Friday called for Israel to revoke the citizenship of terrorists' families who support attacks against Israelis.
      "We must be extremely focused [in or efforts] against evil people, to locate them and deal with them firmly," Barkat told Army Radio. "

      Evil . Again, a joke. When Israel punishes with the full force of the law those who kill Palestinians with impunity Barkat can start talking about evil. But not now.

  • 'My friends, with us tonight is the face of the Holocaust': Boteach talks Israel, Palestine, and genocide with Wiesel and Power
  • Netanyahu's 'battle for Jerusalem' can't end well for any of us
    • Violence and lack of integrity are the DNA of Zionism. Sorry- I forgot about whining and expecting others to pick up the tab.

      For Milikovsky to have terrorism as the root of the conflict is like saying button down collars were the cause of the collapse of Lehman Bros.

    • "You’re a clown and a bully"


      BTW Mooser I read recently that the character Yogi Bear is believed to have had Borscht Belt influences. Smarter than the average Bot.

    • Greenspan is an asshole

      “A necessary condition for my position is that this is a very rare event,” he says. The implosion of the debt bubble that had built up, and the extent to which it almost caused the entire financial system to stop working, was not anticipated by financial regulators.

      link to

    • "There is no difference between Netanyahu’s call to fight terrorism and President Obama’s call to fight ISIS."

      There is. Jews are running brutal occupation of East Jerusalem Hoph and Israel refuses to grant them rights., that has the square root of nothing to do with ISIS and you know it. Why can't the Jewish state grant rights to everyone in Erez Israel? What is so hard about that ?
      Should Jews in London be denied rights ? why not ?

      " There is nothing fascistic about defending the citizens of your country."

      It's not about defending Jews. It's about defending Jewish privilege and there is a huge difference.

      " And while Netanyahu speaks in terms of a Jewish state, his actions clearly seek to defend Jews, Christians, Muslims, Druze, Ba’hai, and all of the people of different faiths that live in Israel."

      He makes life in Israel less secure by his actions.

      Tell us about your Jewish Muslim outreach work again Hoph. We need a few laughs

    • Walid

      That Christian/Muslim video is zay el eshta as they say in umadunia. A sign of what can be.
      Like the polar opposite of Zionism. Such a miserable runt of a political culture.

      Jewish history has all been about sharing with other cultures- where did the food develop out of, FFS ? Was it all written down in the Torah ?

      Nothing like cooking spices in schmaltz and then throwing in a few onions to bring out the flavour- why did Judaism become so insular ?

      In a similar vein to Tania here's a Hindu/Muslim celebration

      Nusrat Fatih ali Khan (Pakistani) sings a song about the Hindu God Krishna in Urdu
      link to

      link to

      Sanson Ki Mala Pe (literally: On the rosary of breath) is a bhajan originally sung by Meerabai (c. 1498 – c. 1557 AD), a Rajput princess and a Hindu mystic from Rajasthan in praise of Lord Krishna. The song has been sung by many famous artists, and is one of the most popular songs of legendary vocalist, Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan and was first played by Khan when he first visited India in 1979.

    • When you fly into Ben Gurion airport you really see how narrow Israel is.
      And the desert beyond. With the Muslims. And they all hate Israel so bad.
      And they are unhinged by anti-Semitism.
      Actually, I think that applies to the Israelis.

    • Forever is really long, Amigo.
      I can't see them holding off the Arabs forever.
      The Crusaders couldn't do it. the Byzantines couldn't do it.
      They have a narrow sliver of land on the wrong side of the Med.

    • "The Jewish people reject it and they will defend their capital, their nation and their existence at all costs."

      Spoken like a welfare queen.
      "At all costs" - including your left testicle?
      Would you eat maggots 3 times daily for the rest of your life if you got the calculations wrong ?

      " Arabs decided to wage a religious war upon Judaism. That too, will end in failure. Arab terror against Israel and its people has been continuing for the past century and is self defeating. Those who kill pious rabbis in cold blood in deep-seated hatred of the Jews have forfeited the right to a state. The massacre at Har Nof is a game changer for the Jewish State, the region and the world."

      Be a loyal plastic Jewish robot for a world that doesn't care, Norman
      If the world cared you'd be winning on social media. You aren't.
      Nobody cares about your revanchist fantasy outside the Hebrew bubble.
      Not even lonely people.

      It's a common or garden colonial/apartheid struggle. The fact that Jews are involved is distasteful. There is nothing noble of chosen about racism and bigotry, even in a kippa with minyans and dayvans and campervans.

      The Jewish people are way better than your grubby ideology.

      - See more at: link to

    • Milikovsky and his combover to try and cover up the fact that his head is as bald as the hasbara cupboard.

    • That 77 election victory was so significant.
      They got the ball rolling as you say and they eventually took over.
      Begin was another sad excuse for a human. Trauma drove him.
      And he ended up a broken man.

    • Jerusalem has been Jewish-majority since the 19th Century. -

      Bullshit, Norman. Jerusalem was majority Palestinian until 1948.
      What sort of a Jewish name is Norman, by the way. Is that Hebron area ?

    • Can't you at least call them Palestinians?

      I wouldn't have accepted your people taking over my country either, Jon. Look at what followed.
      Imagine living in Majdal and being shunted off to Gaza to face 56, 67, settlers and all the crap since including white phosphorous, deliberate pauperisation, de development, 80% on food aid etc.

      Your people should have taken mass trauma treatment before going anywhere.
      Maybe Zionism would have stood a chance then

    • Thanks for the link. Really interesting

      1987. the religious fruitcakes were small minority
      Skinny little Nancy Callahan had grown up, filled out but in Israel
      Skinny little religious fascists had grown up and taken over the country.

      "Did not Menachem Begin win the election of 1981 by proclaiming himself to be the leader of the “national camp,” thus relegating all of those who were more moderate to the semitreasonable fringes?"

      Reminds me of an FT article about Ian Paisley

      link to
      "By playing on the fears of ordinary Protestants he prevented more moderate unionist leaders from instigating the reforms that might have prevented the onset of community violence in the late 1960s.
      With his booming voice and intemperate oratory he symbolized the intransigence of Ulster's dominant community "

      He must have shared psychiatric symptoms with Netanyahu and Begin .

      And the Protestants in Ulster coasted just like the Jews of Israel coast today
      link to

    • Page: 151
    • Yeah

      Jerusalem is like so TOTALLY Jewish that they have to buy the entire US Congress to get someone outside the Hebrew Bubble to say the words.
      It is SO Jewish that the first sound tourists hear every morning is the call to prayer !
      link to

      La allah ila allah means "I don't take orders from no Zionist"

      So Jewish that the most beautiful building in the city is a mosque.

      So Jewish that torture is the only way to keep the bullshit going

    • Netanyahu isn't fit to wipe away the dust from Fairuz's feet

      This song reminds me of poor Quds, from which so many decent people are banned just cos they aren't Jewish

    • "There are those who would like to uproot us from our land and from our capital. They will not achieve their aim. We are in a battle for Jerusalem, our eternal capital. "

      Yalla ya Falastin

      link to

      Anyway I don't believe Bibi the Butcher has any idea about tail risk

      Another Jewish genius never got it either

      “I made a mistake in presuming that the self-interests of organisations, specifically banks and others, were such that they were best capable of protecting their own shareholders…” link to

    • The current state of play shows how right the UN were not to want to hand over the city to the Zionists. They couldn't run a child's birthday party without killing someone and accusing her of blood libel.

  • Israel sows despair and senseless violence
    • "Because of the entrenchment of this toxic issue into the temple and into religious Jewish life (not to mention its being forced into secular lives) over the decades, some people born into more secular Jewish families who may have been curious enough as adults to join a temple/synagogue to see if it was for them, never even consider it due to the knowledge that they will likely have to unconditionally support Israel to truly be accepted into the Temple’s congregation. I know this to be true because I am one of these people. And because I know that I am not exceptional, I surely cannot be the only one. So not only is Zionism driving people away from coming into Temple due to what’s being taught inside them, it’s no doubt driving people of conscience out of temples they may have belonged to for years/decades due to the corrosion of what’s being learned/discussed within the Temple. "

      Einstein said if you can't explain it to a six year old you don't understand it. And even 6 year olds can see that Zionism is insane. The hatred that drove the IDF in July and August was broadcast around the world. The petty vindictiveness, the brutality, the brainwashing.
      Zionism might be okay if it didn't need torture to get through the day. But it does. Because it can't live in peace with the Palestinians. the Original Sin.
      And all the energy that went into the project, hatikva even. the hope. and now the hopelessness. It is very sad.
      They couldn't leave Europe and the trauma behind. The Nazis caught up with them in Erez Israel and the Nazis are still winning, cordyceps style.

      link to

      link to

      And all the Jews who won't even think about what Israel has become, as if focus is going to change anything. Like the sociopaths in Tel Aviv care anyway

    • It's just Zionist logic iterating away to the final collapse.
      Beit Hallahmi called 1948 the original sin and Zionism still doesn't know how to deal with the Palestinians.
      Judaism is being destroyed in the process.

    • "The forces entered the area after midnight, surrounded the five-story building where the al-Shaludi family lives, and forced residents out of the building without allowing them to bring any of their possessions with them, witnesses said. -"

      I didn't realize it was Sukkot already

      link to

  • Palestinians who targeted Jerusalem synagogue have sights set on U.S. -- Israeli propaganda
    • Gideon Levy in fine form

      link to

      "A few hours after the attack in Jerusalem, journalist Emily Amrousi said at a conference in Eilat that the life of a single Jewish child was more important to her than the lives of thousands of Palestinian children. The audience’s response was clearly favorable; I think there was even some applause.
      But this is a society that sanctifies its dead to the point of death-worship, that wears thin the stories of the victims’ lives and deaths, whether it be in a synagogue attack or a Nepal avalanche. It’s a society preoccupied with endless commemorations in the land of monuments, services and anniversary ceremonies; a society that demands shock and condemnation after every attack, when it blames the entire world.
      Precisely from such a society is one permitted to demand some attention to the Palestinian blood that is also spilled in vain; some understanding of the other side’s pain, or even a measure of empathy, which in Israel is considered treason. "

      The Hebrew bubble is SO divorced from the rest of humanity in 2014

    • Did they include the american idf grunt who took his own life after what he went through for bibi ?

    • Blumenthal becomes Amalek crossed with Hitler in Israel because he destroys the narrative of Israeli victimhood that pervades all the hasbara that comes out of stories like this. Blood libel, damaging peace, can't give the Palestinians rights, jewish fingernails, never mind Gaza etc

    • Hasbara is still 105% bullshit.

    • "Jake Tapper put a stamp of approval on this argument when he stated that more American citizens have been killed by Palestinian terrorists in the last year than by ISIS. Dore Gold issued the same scary pronouncement on CNN. "

      More Americans have been killed by peanuts than by ISIS
      Ebola has killed more Americans than ISIS
      Their own spouses have killed more Americans than ISIS
      and what is the point

    • "On CNN, Israeli ambassador to the U.S. Ron Dermer equated Palestinian militants to Nazis; and Wolf Blitzer nodded but had no rejoinder - "

      The bots would never try that in Europe. It would be laughed off stage.
      If the 2 cousins yesterday were Nazis so was Samson.

  • For Obama officials, synagogue attack is 'pure terror' -- and not a word about attacks on Palestinians
    • It is more than just the cost free occupation. Israelis are educated to believe that Palestinians are not fully human. They can't see beyond Jewish pain.

      link to

      "Aside from exceptional murders and hate crimes by individuals, there is total apathy — and the obtuseness is frightening. Killings (we dare not say murders) by soldiers and policemen will never shock Israel. The propaganda machine will whitewash everything, and the media will be its mouthpiece. No one will demand condemnations. No one will express shock. Few will even consider that the pain is the same pain, that murder is murder.
      How many Israelis are willing to give a thought to the parents of Yousef Shawamreh, the boy who went out to pick wild greens and was killed by an army sniper? Why is it exaggerating to be upset by, or at least give some attention to, the killing of Khalil Anati, a 10-year-old boy from the Al-Fawar refugee camp?
      Why can’t we identify with the pain of bereaved father Abd al-Wahab Hammad, whose son was killed in Silwad, or with the Al-Qatari family from the Al-Amari refugee camp, two members of which were killed by soldiers within a month? Why do we reserve our horror for the synagogue and not consider these killings disturbing?
      Yes, there is the test of intent. The typical Israeli argument is that soldiers, unlike terrorists, do not intend to kill. If so, then what exactly is the intent of the sniper who fires live bullets at the head or chest of a demonstrator a distance away who poses no threat? Or when he shoots a child in the back as he’s running for his life? Didn’t he intend to kill him?
      The attack in Jerusalem was a horrendous crime; nothing can justify it. But the blood that flowed there is not the only blood being spilled here murderously. The degree to which it is forbidden to say that is incredible. "

      Israel is such a sick society

    • Bot moans about blood libel are nuts. Israel kills Palestinians with impunity. Jews in the Pale of Poland who were accused of murdering kids for matzos were as defenceless as Palestinian civilians now are. Israel is the New Cossack state.

    • Was there ever a case in which you didn’t believe the Palestinians claims about another Israeli atrocity ? -


      Was abu Khdeir gay ? Was he murdered by his own family ?
      Does anything the Israeli police say about the deaths of Palestinians have any link with reality ?

    • Oleg

      I had a look at your profile

      Soviet Union born, Israeli raised , Jew, Humanist, Liberal -

      So tell us what you think of home demolitions , you "Jew, humanist, Liberal"

    • Yonah

      This is what I think

      link to

      YESHA just isn't worth it
      The Israeli right wing is insane
      Israel will fall apart eventually unless some sanity is restored to Israeli policy

      And those 5 people will not be the last to die for a pointless cause.

    • link to

      "A great majority of the time, for most of the Jews here, the Palestinian suffering is completely denied. When it is not documented on video it interests almost no one, and when it is documented it is repressed as a conspiracy. What significance is there to the display of mutual responsibility of these days if when they see the Palestinian baby who survived a premature birth and a car accident, but did not survive a live bullet fired at his upper body, in light of the documentation of his death we do not become angry and give our hearts out to him and his family; and instead we ask with estranged cynicism and in arrogant contempt: “Why don’t they show us what happened earlier?” "

      link to

      "Almost every Israeli in the last 47 years has done military service in the territories. Almost all of them have had to do things that go against human decency and morality – often not for the sake of Israel’s security at large, but to protect some isolated outpost of settlers. If indeed Israel were to reach peace with the Palestinians and the Arab world, most Israelis would have to live with the painful realization that most of what Israel has done to the Palestinians was unnecessary; that Israel could have ended the occupation a long time ago; and that the energies and resources invested in the West Bank’s colonization could have been invested in Israel’s flourishing instead.
      This idea is too difficult to bear, and the regret would be unendurable. It is, therefore, psychologically imperative to create a narrative that explains why the occupation was inevitable; why Israel had no choice but to hang onto the West Bank; why all the sacrifice in human lives, moral turpitude and political isolation were necessary for Israel’s survival."

      link to

      " In his speech, Rosen-Zvi said, “I want to single out two things that seem new and very frightening to me. First, the death of soldiers no longer creates the same public pressure as in the past. It’s a new mechanism and different from what we knew, when coffins created a sense of revulsion that led to criticism and media pressure. It seems that now death creates togetherness and at the same time invites more death in order to justify it."

      Today's development is another step on the road to the eventual arrival of ISIS or some descendant at the gates of Israel.
      That's where the right is leading Zionism.

      I'd love to hear what Gutvitz has to say. It is so depressing.

    • "And in the case of Hamas and like-minded groups, that Jews have a right to live".

      Cry me a river. 17 Jews killed this year in "teghogh".
      Israel murdered 490 children in Gaza in the summer.

      And Jews are the victims?
      When does the whining stop ?

    • "Netanyahu: Palestinian blood libel led to Jerusalem terror attack"

      He's just talking to his people. They live in a parallel version of reality mediated via Hebrew with very little connection to the real world.

      This attack is what Israel gets for having leaders like Netanyahu.
      There is no free occupation. That was horseshit from the Israeli right.

  • More than 30,000 people are still living in UNRWA schools in Gaza. What does that look like?
    • And in 1948 it was so urgent to give the bots a state because there were all those Jews in DP camps with no homes of their own. And now? Well, loads of Palestinians in DP schools and nobody in Israel cares.

  • Muslims' beliefs are 'untrue' and 'ridiculous,' 'Salon' author says, offering support for Maher's intolerance
    • Gamal

      That post above reminds me of J-live. It's such a great time for jihliyeh everywhere

      "My people’s under a spell
      And under duress
      Underemployed uninformed undernourished underdressed
      Under the weather but avoid the undertaker like whatever the underdogs underground
      Holding it together

      The radio is quid pro quo
      The videos they show
      All dealing with gangstas pimps and hos
      I’m not even trying to turn up my nose
      But I know we got so much more to offer on the low
      They run you like a remote control
      The trolls from the bridge to the generation gap I been told
      We just trying to feed your soul
      Plant these seeds “child it flows”
      So the youth can grow

      nowadays you can show you got something to play
      They ain’t supposed to
      Time brings change and that’s not what I’m opposed to
      Recognise what the elders had to go through
      So that you wouldn’t have to
      Ask and they show you
      That’s how you build a nation.. civilisation
      We do it through the music if you don’t use it you lose it
      You show the people clear water how can they refuse it
      But if they never knew it existed they couldn’t choose it
      The rich ones they plan it so you never understand it
      We take this shit for granted til it’s missing from the planet"

  • Support for Israel in the U.S. Jewish community continues to erode
    • What is really significant about this attack is that the perpetrators came from East Jerusalem, part of the indivisible eternal capital of Judistan. Normally with an attack of this type the bots would trash the West Bank since the attackers usually come from the West Bank but now East Jerusalem is fighting . This was not the case in 2000-2004.

      link to

      "Recent attacks in Jerusalem, including the spate of vehicular attacks and the shooting of Yehuda Glick, have all been perpetrated by residents of Jerusalem's Palestinian neighborhoods. They were all young men with blue Israeli ID cards who worked near their chosen targets and knew the areas well.
      Unlike Operation Defensive Shield in 2002 - when Prime Minister Ariel Sharon sent Israeli forces into the Palestinian Authority's cities to strike headquarters and facilities of militant organizations - there are no obvious targets for Israel to strike in Palestinian East Jerusalem."

      I was thinking of that "dead nigger" photo of the Palestinian the IDF shot on the roof of his home recently, which was all over the Israeli media - the language of Jewish domination and nobody fucks with the Jews.

      Well, the Palestinians can play that game too. And Bibi can't do much to stop it.

    • Just

      What was most striking about the comments I read on the guardian article was how few bought the hasbara.

      I have been reading comments on the Guardian since 2001 and there is a huge change now with ordinary posters who don't necessarily give much thought to the IP issue really coming out against Zionism and its lies.

  • Settlers spit on Abu Khdeir family as they exit court; alleged killer refuses to enter plea
    • in the spirit of the moment my ass

      link to

      "Prior to the kidnapping, hundreds of Israelis rioted in Jerusalem, chanting “death to the Arabs” while assaulting Palestinians in what have been labeled “lynch mobs.”
      This came on the heels of direct incitement from Israeli government officials and politicians, who have been calling for revenge following the discovery on Monday of the bodies of the three Israeli teens.
      Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu vowed “revenge” on behalf of “the entire Jewish people” against the “human animals” who killed the teens, adding with no evidence that “Hamas is responsible, Hamas will pay.”
      On the more extreme end, former Israeli lawmaker Michael Ben-Ari released a video statement imploring Israel to “transfer the pain to the cruel enemy” by transforming “Ramadan into a month of darkness.” These sentiments were echoed by the Israeli public on social media, where calls for genocide against Palestinians are common. "

    • Ben-David is all alone in court. None of the senior politicians who incited him to carry out a proper Zionist response of revenge on innocent Palestinians were to be seen after the deed was done.

      Any sign of David Lau in court ?

      link to

      "Israel's Chief Rabbi David Lau: "The Jewish people around the world are shaken by the despicable murder. The teenagers that were martyred for their Jewishness join a long chain of our people's holy and pure who were murdered throughout the painful history of the Jewish people."

      Deputy Minister Tzipi Hotovely (Likud): "The despicable kidnapping and murder of the students cannot go by in silence, and the those responsible in Gaza must pay the price. The government of Israel must declare a war to the death on Hamas, which is responsible for the murders, and return to the policy of [targeted] assassination."

      9:02 P.M. Deputy Defense Minister Danny Danon (Likud) called for an all-out military assault aimed at the total destruction of Hamas. "This tragic ending must also be the ending of Hamas! The nation is strong and ready to absorb [attacks] for the sake of a mortal blow against Hamas. ... [W]e have to destroy the homes of Hamas activists, wipe out their arsenals everywhere, and stop the flow of money that directly or indirectly keeps terror alive... make the entire Palestinian leadership pay a heavy price."

      Shas chairman MK Aryeh Deri: "Naftali, Gilad, and Eyal, may God avenge their blood. All the nation of Israel is mourning tonight with the three bereaved families who showed us in the last two weeks what Jewish faith and strength are."

      link to

      "The kidnapping of the yeshiva students elicited a wave of public sympathy with the families, but also calls for revenge, largely among the extreme right. All these incidents heat up the atmosphere between Jews and Arabs, in the territories and also within Israel. It's no coincidence that police announced on Monday that they were putting units in all regions on high alert. Such an atmosphere can fuel incitement, turbulent demonstrations, violent clashes and attacks on Arabs within Israel proper. Based on past experience, it's possible to predict with a high degree of assuredness that there will be further arson attempts at mosques and assaults on Palestinian property in the territories, in the context of what are known as "price tag" attacks. "

      link to
      "Incitement on Instagram
      Many users are also using the photo and video sharing service Instagram. Here are some examples of calls for violence posted to the hashtags #bloodforblood, #bringbackourboys and #thembloodmyblood.
      The first image of a row of coffins draped in Palestinian flags is accompanied by a caption that says: “This is what we should do to Gaza!!! Clear Gaza and take it back!!!” "

      None of those instagrammers are with Ben David. No, he's on his own.

  • For CNN and NYT, Jewish lives matter more than Palestinian ones
    • This is a must read from 972

      link to

      "Netanyahu promised Israelis prosperity and quiet without having to solve the Palestinian conflict. That has been his promise since the 1990s. To Netanyahu, terrorism is just card we’ve been dealt, and only military force can resolve it. There is no problem with continuing to build in the settlements, including inside the Palestinian neighborhoods of Jerusalem, because there is no connection between the settlements and the actions of the Palestinians. That’s what Netanyahu has been saying for decades already — both to the world and to Israelis. There’s no reason to give Palestinians their rights because that endangers Israel: they can make due with “economic peace.” It’s okay to discriminate and legislate against Israel’s Arab citizens. Hell, they should be saying thank you that we even let them live here; things are much worse in every other country in the Middle East. The government is here to serve the Jews, and the Jews only. And if we continue to act this way, aggressively and determinedly, we’ll enjoy stability, security and economic prosperity. That’s Netanyahu’s theory, and the Israeli public bought it because the price was so low and the payoff sky high. We’re not responsible for anything that happens and we don’t have to make any compromises on anything.
      Netanyahu, Bennett and Liberman’s vision — the same vision that is being put into action with the help of Livni and Lapid’s acquiescence — is one of civil war between Jews and Arabs; a war that sometimes crawls under the carpet and sometimes explodes with violence. Nothing beyond that. Not two states and not one state, not warm peace and not cold peace — simply nothing. Just stricter laws against stone throwers, laws against the “release of terrorists,” laws against the Arabic language, new prisons to hold all of the new arrestees, gradual annexation, and ensuring the Palestinian population remains relegated to a status as second-, third- or fourth-class citizens.
      That’s the plan. That’s how they think they’ll quiet can be attained. That’s how they think “the Arabs will learn to accept us,” even though history and all logic prove exactly the opposite. Oppression begets violence, which begets more and harsher oppression, which begets even more terrible violence. “Holding onto the occupied territories will make us a nation of murderers and murder-victims,” read an advertisement by the lefty political movement Matzpen, three months after the Six Day War in which Israel conquered East Jerusalem, the West Bank and Gaza.
      There is a simple truth here that needs to be reiterated: it’s entirely possible that a just political resolution with the Palestinians won’t guarantee peace and quiet, certainly not in its first stages. But only in such a deal, and in such a deal alone, lies the potential for a better future.
      Instead, we are caught in the implementation phase of the Israeli Right’s political plan — both in Gaza and in Jerusalem. This is what Netanyahu and Bennett’s “solution” looks like. They might blame the PA and the Israeli Left and the High Court and the world for their inability to deliver, but this is their doing. Or more accurately, this is what the beginning of their doing looks like. The rest will be much worse — for Israelis and Palestinians alike."

    • Netanyahu is now looking for the world's shock and condemnation for his own "telegenic dead".

      MJR is in good form

      CJ Werleman @cjwerleman
      · 3h 3 hours ago
      Alan Dershowitz tells @CNN "Israel never attacks mosques." In 2014, Israel destroyed one-third of Gaza's mosques: link to

      MJ (Mike) Rosenberg @MJayRosenberg
      · 3h 3 hours ago
      BenAmi and Beinart know better. But they also know who is buttering their bread.

      · 3h 3 hours ago

      The little man inside Beinart, Ben Ami and the others saying "be careful," "don't go there" has a name: It's ALAN DERSHOWITZ.

    • Mooser

      Tallits have more than once been associated with war crimes in Gaza

      they make lovely photos

      link to

      Why wearing them would grant anyone immunity from the madness of Zionism is a mystery

    • Maybe the synagogue was a place of hatred. That is the sort of line Jon S would use to justify the killings while crying crocodile tears about the civilians involved if the IDF had done it to the other side.

    • I don't see the point in asking Palestinians to condemn the killings.

      Israel doesn't give a fuck about non Jewish life in Erez Israel and if some Palestinians feel the same way about Jews, I'm very sorry but what do Israelis expect ?

      Is condemning the deaths of innocent Jews going to change the dynamic?
      Is it going to stop the hatred taught to Jewish kids or is it going to wake Sabras up ?
      Of course not.

    • It's really sad. As J-live once sang, that shit is real tragic but it sure ain't magic.
      And it's all Israel's fault.

  • 10-year-old girl blinded in Shu'fat, 11-year-old boy blinded in Issawiya
    • "The world needs to wake up and save these people from the the abyss they are facing under Israeli oppression and set them free to live normal lives in dignity."

      That also applies to Israel Jews. IDF/settler rule is bad for everyone.
      there is no dignity in blowing up hospitals or being educated to believe Netanyahu is a normal leader who wants the best for you.

  • This is not yet an intifada, Palestinians say
    • Mooser

      All the war propaganda, all the screaming and lies and hatred, comes invariably from people who are not fighting”. George Orwell.

      Success is more permanent when you achieve it without destroying your principles. ~Walter Cronkite

      “The purely agitational attitude is not good enough for a detailed consideration of a subject” Nehru

    • Isn't it ?

      I suppose one jewish fingernail must be worth at least 50 kids in Gaza.

    • Ivri

      How much will it cost to have security at every synagogue?
      That's a little foretaste of the occupation coming on balance sheet.

      bibi promised you a free occupation

    • Jon s

      Tallit and tefillin- those 4 dead were innocent as were the vast majority of people the IDF killed in Gaza.

      But tefillin- I have seen enough pictures of religious soldiers praying outside Gaza and read enough about the ruthlessness of religious soldiers in Gaza the fucked up theology they teach in the religious yeshivas in the West Bank that produce most of the religious IDF officers to know that tefillin don't always signify innocence, as your use implied.

      link to

      "Prominent settler and former Israeli army chief rabbi Avichai Rontzki delivered a “messianic, fiery speech” to Israeli forces prior to the devastating massacre of the Gaza City neighborhood of Shujaiya, it was revealed today.
      An account of the speech appears in a new piece by Nahum Barnea, a prominent journalist at Israeli newspaper Yedioth Ahronoth, and is based on remarks made by a soldier present at the time.
      The soldier related that before their invasion of Shujaiya, troops were gathered to “listen to the words” of Rontzki, who “praised the miracle of God’s army.” According to an article last week in Kipa, a religious-Zionist oriented news site, Rontzki has been performing reserve duty and “encouraging the combatants on the ground.”
      The Electronic Intifada has already reported on the phenomenon of groups of Jewish mystics offering support to the Israeli forces currently shelling Gaza, as well as the Israeli army commander who declared “holy war” on Palestinians.
      The anonymous soldier in Barnea’s article also recounts a similar event prior to the Shujaiya massacre:
      We got close to Kibbutz Nahal Oz and then they gathered us together. You know how it is in the army - when told to gather, you gather. Waiting for us was a bunch of Breslev Hasidic Jews singing “Messiah, Messiah,” dancing and bouncing around. We formed a circle around them, and a bunch of fighters danced with them in ecstasy
      Israel’s ground assault on the Gaza Strip began late on Thursday 17 July, with tanks receiving orders “to open fire at anything that moved.” Over the next few days, the Shujaiya district of Gaza City was subjected to intense and indiscriminate bombardment, including 600 shells fired by an artillery battalion and 100 one-ton bombs dropped from the air.
      Rontzki’s speech to Israeli soldiers recalls his time as Israeli army chief rabbi, when, in 2009, he told religious students that troops who “show mercy” towards the enemy in wartime will be “damned.” During Israel’s so-called “Operation Cast Lead” massacre in 2008-09, the army rabbinate under his leadership distributed inflammatory publications that referred to the massacre as “a war on murderers.”"

      link to

      "Most visibly, mobs of Jewish nationalists march through West Jerusalem streets chanting maavet la’aravim ‘death to Arabs.’ The mobs are usually composed of Mizrahi youth, themselves of Arab descent and at most two generations removed from Arabic language and culture, with haircuts modeled after their favorite soccer players. Often there are religious nationalists with kippahs and the fringes of a tzitzit dangling from under their shirts. Sometimes there are even a few beautiful young women scattered among the mostly male mobs. I struggle to comprehend their hate. "

      The thugs have also contaminated religious life.

    • "mentioned the tallit and tefillin to emphasize the horror of innocent civilians slaughtered while davening in the early-morning minyan. "

      It's terrible Jon but it's hardly more noteworthy than 490 dead children even if they were kitted out in religious gear . If the IDF had killed them and called them terrorists would it have been easier for you ?

    • Foreign Policy email

      :The grisly murder of five rabbis in Jerusalem marks the latest attack in a wave of violence that Israeli leaders are struggling to contain. "It looked like a pogrom," an eyewitness to the scene told Yardena Schwartz, who wrote from Jerusalem for Foreign Policy. Three of the rabbis killed were U.S.-born, dual Israeli citizens. They fell victim to two Palestinians carrying meat cleavers, an ax and a gun. The attackers were killed in a shootout with police after exiting the synagogue in the Har Nof area of West Jerusalem.

      More from Schwartz: "While today's attack was the most gruesome to date, acts of violence like this are becoming elements of daily life in Israel. Whereas previous uprisings were marked by suicide bombings, galvanized by leaders and movements, the latest period of unrest has been characterized by lone wolf attacks. Over the course of the past two weeks, five Israelis have been killed by Palestinians, who stabbed their victims to death with a knife, or ran them over with a car." More here.

      In a speech after the attack, Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu accused Palestinian leaders of inciting violence and ordered the homes of those connected to the attack destroyed. President Obama condemned the killings. Slim hopes to revive the U.S.-backed peace process have been dashed. "

      The notion that Israel is a normal country is nuts.
      And Netanyahu accused the Palestinians of incitement so it goes in verbatim.
      So much wrong with 3 short paragraphs.

    • Totally pointless death for a stupid system.
      There'll be guards on all synagogues now. It'll be just like old Poland.
      With the Jews doing the Cossacks but also the victims when the victims fight back. .

    • Some really insightful stuff on Haaretz

      link to

      "Even those center and leftist Israeli Jews who remain two-state supporters must acknowledge how far Palestinian violence has deferred chances for a Palestinian state. "

      Like that is really going to help Jews. And Israel was just about to give them a state and everything.

      link to

      "Predictably, the Israeli leadership reacted to the slaughter in the synagogue with two moves: convening the security cabinet, and statements placing direct responsibility for the murders on Palestinian Authority chairman Mahmoud Abbas, popularly known as Abu Mazen. "

      Obviously everything is his fault. He should tell his people that Israel kills them for their own good and they should be happy to die in Erez Israel under Jewish rule

    • Maybe if the refugees in Gaza had the old tefillin the IDF angel of death might spare them.

    • Max Hastings from July

      UK journalists understand the Israeli danse macabre rather better than any career minded mainstream US journalist

      link to

      "Israel’s people deserve a less unworthy leader than Benjamin Netanyahu, and a higher vision than that of reducing Gaza to rubble. This can breed only a new generation of alienated, embittered Palestinian radicals, who will sustain their desperate struggle through decades to come"


    • Gideon Levy update

      link to

      "All the seeds of ultra-nationalism and messianism that have been planted over the past several years are germinating now and blooming in the flower beds of rot. All of the Israeli hatreds have reared their heads in the wake of the kidnapping of three yeshiva students /.killing of 4 orthodox whose place of learning/prayer is in the heart of the occupied territory/in a divided city . All of the destructiveness and the intolerance for other views, all of the unity and the falling into rank in Israel have now assembled for the biggest display of ultra-nationalism ever. All the seeds of religiosity have sprouted into a mass prayer service led by the television broadcasters, every single last one of which has volunteered for propaganda duty. No one questions the mass arrests, the re-imprisonment of the Palestinians who were freed in the Gilad Shalit exchange deal, the arrests of members of the Palestinian parliament, the deportations to the Gaza Strip and the warmongering/the bombing of hospitals, the shelling of 10 year old footballers, the summary executions . Anyone who does has sealed his own fate."

      Stand by for an orgy of right wing Zionist incitement and blood as Israel gets its definitive revenge for the response to its last definite dose of revenge .

      And this is Judaism, is it? This how 44% of American Jews understand themselves ?

    • Just

      there'll be more Jews taking the law into their own hands in the next few weeks following incitement from the chief Wizard of Zion. They won't all be able to cite mental illness.

    • The whole system is sick.
      IDF violence can't make Jews safe.

    • This is the point where Zionism loses control. Likud has no answers. It doesn't matter how extremist the Zionist public in Israel is. There is no calm. There won't be.

      Operation Brothers Keeper was the last Iron fist style op in the West Bank that led to the murder of Abu Khdeir

      link to

      "Alongside the attempts to locate the kidnapped teens, Brother’s Keeper is also an operation motivated by the desire for revenge. But Israel lacks targets to attack. There are only a few wanted men from the Hamas military wing in the West Bank that the Shin Bet knows about; otherwise they would have been arrested a long time ago by Israel or the Palestinian security services. Now Israeli politicians are putting pressure on the defense establishment to bring it new targets, and in response they are locating more and more offices of the Hamas civilian charity infrastructure. "

      link to

      "10:41 P.M. A high ranking security tells Haaretz: "Hamas has suffered a terrible beating over the past two weeks. Its institutions paving the way for terrorist actions against Israel have been shut down and many of its senior members were arrested. We will continue to persecute them and will draw a high price from them. The quick solving of the crime by the Shin Bet, which within a 24-hour period identified the kidnappers, together with military pressure in the field, prevented the kidnappers from hiding the bodies and negotiating with Israel for their return. It is only a matter of time until we reach the murders." (Gili Cohen) "

      Israel has no strategy other than status quo forever so it can't respond coherently to any move from the Palestinians. Innocent Jews pay the price

      And Yossi Israeli living in his Hebrew bubble has no idea what is going on.

    • Netanyahu vows to ‘respond with a heavy hand’

      That's really going to work, isn't it? I mean, that really makes Jews safe. Bomb another few hospitals, that'll teach the Untermenschen,.

    • Walid

      Look at what the bots did in Hebron.

      You won't get the Jerusalem cinematheque crowd turning up on the plaza . It'll be the extremists. And there'll be blood.

      I would keep the status quo on the site. Zionism isn't mature enough to share anything.

  • 'Zionism' is now a dirty word for American opinion elite, Frank Luntz concedes
    • "the lightweights who are against Israel this season will forget all about it by spring. "

      As soon as the hasbara reinforcements turn up. I expected them 3 years ago but still no sign of them

    • "It can`t work no matter how much you try – a miracle is taking place and an avowed heretic fights it "

      There are no miracles. Just facts. Gd doesn't care either

    • Luntz reminds me of Kurtz, a character of Joseph Conrad's who also plays a big role in a colonial operation, also attains exalted status, is also an extremist, says "kill the brutes" as luntz surely thinks and whose career ends in failure as luntz's surely will. For Zionism is the heart of darkness.

    • Great point, especially for social media where images trump words. Zionism is all about verbal sleight of hand managed by trusted media gatekeepers and social media is about free exchange of ideas between individuals where Zionism
      A does not have enough people
      B does not manage the message

    • " Luntz urges Israel’s supporters not to say that Israel’s critics are “anti-Semitic,” "

      they couldn't do that if Israel's life depended on it. And they don't. And it does.
      pro Semitic is not pro torture. Never was.

    • Luntz can only do so much. If he really was super talented he could have come up with material to defend Isrel on social media this summer. Nut he couldn't. He's merely human.
      and Zionism is as respectable a word as child abuse now in the US. That's hard, isn't it? how to spin that positively back to all the Hebrew speakers in Israel?

      And that's the problem with Zionism. It takes up too many evenings.

    • *Everyone deserves to call somewhere home

      Except the Palestinians who have 23 other countries to go to

      *For Jews that were forcibly scattered across the globe again and again for centuries -

      apparently many of them liked where they lived .And trade brought them places.

      *that home has always been Jerusalem and the land around it. -

      It hasn't. Not if you look at Ashkenazi cuisine or the guys with the furry hats . No other middle Eastern religious sect wears furry hats in the Levant. Guess why.

      * For more than two thousand years and right up to today, the religious, cultural and historic home for Jewish people has been Israel.

      Religious pole, yes. home, no
      Cultural home- no
      Historic home- no, unless Germany is the historic home of the people of England

  • Videos: Jerusalem Skunk
    • "He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." Nietzsche

      link to

      link to

      Kurtz: I've seen horrors... horrors that you've seen. But you have no right to call me a murderer. You have a right to kill me. You have a right to do that... but you have no right to judge me. It's impossible for words to describe what is necessary to those who do not know what horror means. Horror... Horror has a face... and you must make a friend of horror. Horror and moral terror are your friends. If they are not, then they are enemies to be feared. They are truly enemies! I remember when I was with Special Forces... seems a thousand centuries ago. We went into a camp to inoculate some children. We left the camp after we had inoculated the children for polio, and this old man came running after us and he was crying. He couldn't see. We went back there, and they had come and hacked off every inoculated arm. There they were in a pile. A pile of little arms. And I remember... I... I... I cried, I wept like some grandmother. I wanted to tear my teeth out; I didn't know what I wanted to do! And I want to remember it. I never want to forget it... I never want to forget. And then I realized... like I was shot... like I was shot with a diamond... a diamond bullet right through my forehead. And I thought, my God... the genius of that! The genius! The will to do that! Perfect, genuine, complete, crystalline, pure. And then I realized they were stronger than we, because they could stand that these were not monsters, these were men... trained cadres. These men who fought with their hearts, who had families, who had children, who were filled with love... but they had the strength... the strength... to do that. If I had ten divisions of those men, our troubles here would be over very quickly. You have to have men who are moral... and at the same time who are able to utilize their primordial instincts to kill without feeling... without passion... without judgment... without judgment! Because it's judgment that defeats us.

      And Shulman

      link to

      “One has to bear in mind that Israelis live in a largely mythic world, a somewhat modified and vastly simplified version of the Iliad. In this starkly polarized vision of reality, in which Israelis are by definition innocent victims of dark, irrational forces operating against them, heroic death in war always makes sense, and violent coercion is the option both of necessity and of choice. The Hebrew proverb says: “If force doesn’t work, use more force.” ”

  • Yad Vashem
  • US Jewish voters have more favorable feelings about Netanyahu than Obama
    • Yonah

      2 of the most interesting questions in that poll were

      have you been to Israel (non religious Jews no 73%)
      Was Israel given to the Jews by god ?

      Neither were particularly comforting to the Likud.

    • Bornajoo

      Here is the other book

      link to

      Shulman has a great insight in the NYR

      link to

      "One has to bear in mind that Israelis live in a largely mythic world, a somewhat modified and vastly simplified version of the Iliad. In this starkly polarized vision of reality, in which Israelis are by definition innocent victims of dark, irrational forces operating against them, heroic death in war always makes sense, and violent coercion is the option both of necessity and of choice. The Hebrew proverb says: “If force doesn’t work, use more force.” "

      I wonder what kind of bedtime stories they have to open this dystopia to their kids.

    • Yonah
      I would like to see that 69% broken down hy age group

      43% of yank jews have an identity based on apartheid.

    • Bornajoo

      Some older relatives will just have to be classed as write-offs. They aren't going to change. At least not until it's too late. See the movie Downfall for details .

      link to

      There is plenty of work with the younger generation. Start by pointing them in the right direction. These are 2 very good books you could read them

      link to

      link to

    • I think Netanyahu is a like a political version of Bernie Madoff. The YESHA numbers don't add up but most people don't want to know.Anyone asking questions is obviously a hater. The results are great and what could possibly go wrong ?

    • The Jewish community is not going to do anything. Agreed.
      Too much capital pumped already into Israel. Too big to fail. Too late to turn around. Press on and cross fingers and past as prologue and it will all work out.
      Any criticism to be responded to with cries of anti-Semitism. If necessary INVOKE THE SHOAH.
      Never admit anything, never back down.

      “Where you come from is gone, where you thought you were going to was never there, and where you are is no good unless you can get away from it."

      But Flannery O'Connor was catholic so what did she know ?

    • "friend of mine devotes a lot of time engaging w/people at synagogues and interfaith groups trying to change the minds of zionists -"

      Zionists living in Israel do not live in any mental reality shared with people in other countries. My theory is that Hebrew is the main vector.

      David Shulman has the following to say on the theme in an article for the NYR

      link to

      "One has to bear in mind that Israelis live in a largely mythic world, a somewhat modified and vastly simplified version of the Iliad. In this starkly polarized vision of reality, in which Israelis are by definition innocent victims of dark, irrational forces operating against them, heroic death in war always makes sense, and violent coercion is the option both of necessity and of choice. The Hebrew proverb says: “If force doesn’t work, use more force.” But this summer the proverb failed to deliver."


      Actually the whole article is a must-read

      "If you are Palestinian and happen to be gay, or need some special kind of medical care, or are in financial straits, or want a permit so that you can travel to visit a relative or spouse, or have had some run-in with the security forces, you’re fair game for blackmail or bribery or both.
      If anyone has any doubt about the veracity of the soldiers’ reports, he or she has only to read the superb Palestine Speaks, edited by Mateo Hoke and Cate Malek, a collection of documentary interviews with ordinary Palestinians living on the West Bank or in Gaza. It’s all there: the regime of surveillance and blackmail, the constant threat of arbitrary arrest and likely torture, the continuous theft of land, and the more mundane, but no less tormenting, reality of the roadblocks, state-inflicted terror, random violence, lack of legal recourse, and disenfranchisement."

      Israel has all of the land now but at a dreadful price- the death of Jewish morality.
      And a very sick society that rationalises persecution as normal.

      I find it very hard to see how Israel can ever be a normal country.
      A slow meltdown is the most likely future for Israel.

    • "Exactly. Zionists do not, will not, ever listen to Jews, or the “Jewish community” "


      You won in the great lottery of life. It didn't look like it initially. You were born in a contemptible state with persecution 24/7 even at the weekends and out of office hours . And you may not even have been aware of it. But persecution is like germs, you know.

      And you may have spent a lot of time wondering who you actually were. But you don't need to do that any more. You now have a family. You are a member of the Jewish people and you have a great leader who will take care of you. his name is Benjamin. He is really cool

      link to

      And there is a country far away full of people like you. There are soldiers who fight wars to keep you safe. You may not have heard of Amalek but Amalek wants to kill you.

      All you have to do is vote for the candidates Benjamin chooses. You will never again be persecuted. You don't have to thank him. He is a wise leader and he only wants what is best for you.

    • Bornajoo

      Hang on in there. You know they are nuts. So do we

      “The conventional wisdom”gives way not so much to new ideas as to “the massive onslaught of circumstances with which it cannot contend”. -JG Galbraith

      Israel is too big to fail but the remorseless working of things will kill it.

    • Gaza unlivable by 20202 is the key point.
      Gilbert actually helps Yossi Israeli by pointing out what Israel is doing.
      Because anti-Semitism is going to explode in 2020 when Gaza becomes unlivable.
      And pointing out what happened in Alabama during the freedom rides is not going to help.

    • Boehner 12
      Bibi 53

      that is incoherent

      "because I'm Jewish. We ran civil rights in the US in the 60s but now we don't give a f*ck about civil rights"

  • Israel bans renowned doctor and human rights activist Mads Gilbert from entering Gaza for life
    • Walid

      I wouldn't go to Yadvash and start talking about Murmelstein.
      It's still taboo IMO
      Maybe discussed here occasionally but would Phill's mother or anyone at AIPAC give it a hearing? I don't think so.

    • Walid

      link to

      "Even today historians of the Final Solution do battle with her (Hannah Arendt's) misguided thesis that Adolf Eichmann, the cold-blooded engineer of the Nazi killing machine, was himself but a cog in it, a self-deceived simpleton who made evil seem banal.1 And her cavalier criticism of Jewish leaders who found themselves forced to cooperate with the Nazis in the expropriation, expulsion, internment, and even extermination of their own people still provokes outrage and rebuttals."

      So is Abbas another Murmelstein?

      And how did Jews become the ones running the expropriation, expulsion, internment, and even extermination ?

      If they began to accept what people like Murmelstein did in the 40s could they stop what Israel is doing to Gaza now ?

    • He has already apologized for saying that many times

      link to

      If Gilbert had been around in ww2 he would have been supporting the people in Auschwitz.

    • Zionism is pretty hopeless.

      Note they never went back to talks with Hamas after the end of fighting. As Hamas predicted.

      No, Zionism is set on Plan A for Gaza. Make it so poor and so dysfunctional that everyone leaves.

      And anyone who speaks up is banned.
      And Israel is forever.
      And the Dow will go to 100,000 by 2020
      And a pony for everyone

    • I think it shows how much he rattled them.

      The bots were caught with their trousers around their ankles in August and they are trying to regain some composure.

      But banning him isn't going to solve anything. Hasbara is dead, baby.

  • West Bank protesters cross separation wall in effort to get into Jerusalem
    • 'In other words , it’s a warning of the threat that peace-loving people of both nations face from the violent , senseless, extremists on both sides."

      There are only a handful of peace loving people on the Zionist side, Jon.
      Very few have the guts to open the bonnet of Zionism and have a look at what runs that engine. It's racism , hatred, brainwashing, fear and dehumanizing Palestinians 24/7. All in return for a nice high Jewish standard of living. there are no consequences for the occupation because Israel is forever and history is over. Potential dissidents are either silenced or emigrate.
      The rest do what they are told.

      Bringing it all back to " the violent extremists on both sides" presupposes that the Palestinians have any say over the operation of the system. And they don't .

      As Shulman says

      link to

      "The basic idea governing the entire appalling system is to stamp out the Palestinian nationalist movement and to block all Palestinian aspirations to live a normal life in dignity—and at the same time, to steal huge chunks of land. Whatever Israel does in Gaza ultimately serves this goal."

      If you lived in another country you might be a left wing activist volunteering a night or two a week to some cause. There is no space in Israel for someone like you to make any difference to the operation of the system. So you just accept it.

    • Lovely to see all of those people coming out from under the carpet and soiling the holy atmosphere of Judistan by their mere presence.

  • Ilan Pappe offers a reminder that the 'ongoing Nakba' implicates many of us in Israel's history
    • "the land will remain Jewish forever"

      That's like traders in Wall St predicting permagrowth. The Dow will eventually reach 100,000 if we all concentrate real hard.

      History sez the land will remain Jewish until someone stronger comes along.

    • "provided a persecuted people with a new life in their ancient homeland "

      This is also a reference to what the bots did to the Palestinians. The new life is a nightmare.

    • Nobody else in the OECD does shoddy like Israel.

      Irgunit sub-contracted the bridge's construction to Baruch Karagula and Yehoshua Ben-Ezra (also known as "Ben-Ezra Construction"). The commission found that Karagula and Ezra were not licensed to build bridges, had never attempted to build a bridge, and used substandard materials in the bridge's construction. Photographs taken after the collapse showed that the bridge was constructed out of rusty metal pipes bound together with wire.[14]

      The commission concluded that the bridge's engineer, Micha Bar-Ilan, did not submit a blueprint for the bridge, designed a bridge that was inadequate for its intended use, and did not properly supervise or coordinate the bridge's construction. The commission faulted the Maccabiah Games' organizers for poor coordination and oversight over the bridge's assembly.[15]

      link to

      "The Versailles wedding hall (Hebrew: אולמי ורסאי‎), located in Talpiot, Jerusalem, is the site of the worst civil disaster in Israel's history. At 22:43 on May 24, 2001, during the wedding of Keren and Asaf Dror, a large portion of the third floor of the four-story building collapsed. As a result, 23 people fell to their deaths through two stories, including the groom's 80-year-old grandfather and his three-year-old second cousin, the youngest victim. Another 380 were injured, including the bride who suffered serious pelvic injuries that required surgery.[1] Asaf, who escaped serious injury, carried her in his arms from the rubble.[2]

      The disaster shocked the Israeli public not only because it was one of the worst building disasters in the country's history, but because the event was documented on a camcorder and broadcast on local and international television.[3]

      An investigation of the event concluded that the event was not caused by a terrorist attack. This was based on the testimony provided by many of the wedding guests present in the building during the disaster. Witnesses reported seeing a dangerous sag in the floor moments before the collapse. An initial inquiry blamed the collapse on the Pal-Kal method of constructing light-weight coffered concrete floor systems. Further review pointed to a combination of two alternate causes.

      Initially, the side of the building that failed was designed to be a two story structure, while the other side was designed to be three stories. Late in the construction process, it was decided that both sides of the building should be equal heights, and a third story was added to the shorter side. However, the live load due to occupancy is typically much greater than the design load for a roof. As a result, the structure supporting the new third story was subjected to much greater loading than was originally anticipated. The effect of this error was somewhat mitigated by the construction of partitions on the floor below, which helped redistribute the excess load well such that no damage was incurred.

      A few weeks before the collapse, the wedding hall owners decided to remove the partitions. With the load path eliminated, the floor above began to sag several inches. The owners viewed the sagging floor primarily as a cosmetic problem, and attempted to level it with additional grout and fill. However, their approach not only failed to provide additional structural capacity, it also inadvertently introduced a new and significant dead load at the weakened area.

      During the wedding event in 2001, this significantly overstressed floor section failed, resulting in the catastrophe. The engineer Eli Ron, inventor of the Pal-Kal method of construction, was arrested and subsequently indicted in August 2002 on the charge of manslaughter. Ron had not engaged in any part of the design or construction, but had sold proprietary elements necessary for construction that were installed in a deficient manner."

      link to

      At the time I remember a Haaretz journalist saying Israel was the country of short term thinking and "don't worry, it'll be fine" delusions. The settlement project is the ultimate Israeli "don't worry it'll be fine" delusion.

    • The Maccabiah games bridge disaster was a classic combination of Zionist contempt for the environment of the land they profess to love and shoddy Israeli engineering

      link to

      "As scheduled during the opening ceremony, the participating athletes, teamed with their respective national delegations, began to march across the bridge and into the stadium. The second nation to cross the bridge, following the Austrian team, consisted of the 373 members of the Australian delegation. As the Australian athletes, packed together in parallel rows of six, crossed the river the bridge's support beams at roughly mid-span suddenly snapped, plunging around 100 of the Australians eight metres into the river below. Several of the fallen were forcibly submerged in the 1.6-metre deep river by the press of falling athletes above them.[5]

      Other athletes, bystanders, event staff, and policemen leapt into the river to rescue the fallen. Inside the stadium, Israeli government officials, including President Ezer Weizman, chose to continue with the opening ceremony, but canceled the remainder of the march of the national teams into the stadium. Israeli television maintained live coverage, switching back and forth between the frantic rescue efforts outside the stadium and the festive dancing and light shows inside.[6]

      The 67 injured were taken to nearby Beilinson Hospital in Petah Tikva and Tel Aviv Sourasky Medical Center. One victim, Gregory Small, 37, a bowler from Sydney, was dead on arrival, apparently as a result of injuries suffered during the fall. The remaining 66 victims did not appear to have suffered life-threatening injuries. Their injuries included broken bones and water inhalation.[7]

      Within an hour or two of admission to the hospital, a number of victims began to show signs of asphyxia. Doctors discovered that an unidentified organism was attacking their respiratory systems and pulmonary blood vessels. By the next morning, seven athletes were in critical condition.[8]

      Patrick Surkin, who ran the intensive care unit at Tel Aviv Medical Centre, wondered whether a toxin might be the culprit behind the infections. He contacted David Pargament, chief of the Yarkon River Authority. Pargament explained that 36 hours before the collapse, mosquito larvicide oil, a mixture of jet fuel and oil, had been sprayed on the surface of the Yarkon to suppress mosquitoes. Subsequent lab tests, however, found no traces of the substance in the sick athletes.[9]

      Bowler Yetty Bennett, 50, died later that day from asphyxia. Elizabeth Sawicki, 47, a member of the delegation's bridge team, died July 26 from complications from infection. Bowler Warren Zines, 54, died on August 10, 1997 of severe respiratory-tract infection at Sheba Medical Center. Zines was the fourth and final fatality from the accident.[10]

      An autopsy of Zines finally identified the source of the infections as Pseudallescheria boydii fungus. The fungus, usually fatal when infecting humans, colonises in the lungs, causing pneumonia and killing cells. The microbes that it spawns often spread infection to the brain, kidneys, heart, and thyroid.[11]

      After Zines' death, one athlete, Sasha Elterman, 15, remained in critical condition. Elterman, a tennis player, underwent 18 surgeries in the six months after the collapse, 13 of them brain surgeries. Sasha Elterman was hospitalized and treated at the Schneider Children's Medical Centre of Israel in Petah-Tikva. Elterman ultimately survived her ordeal, but her lungs permanently lost 40% of their capacity and she suffered from periodic convulsions.[12]"

    • " Later visits by relatives of some of Mujaydial’s original villagers revealed that some of the pine trees had literally split in two, and how, in the middle of their broken trunks, olive trees had popped up in defiance of the alien flora planted over them fifty years ago "

      link to

      "The Hula Valley, an agricultural region in northern Israel with abundant fresh water, affords an example of the delicate balance between nature and human development. The past 150 years of human settlement in the valley has been a continuous attempt to impose order upon nature. The drainage of Lake Hula and its surrounding swamps in the 1950s was the epitome of the attempts to alter the environment to suit human needs. Though initially perceived as a great national achievement for the fledgling State of Israel, with time it became evident that the benefits from transforming a "wasteland," Lake Hula and its swamps, into an agricultural "blessing" were limited. Today, after nearly 50 years of largely unsuccessful struggle to utilize the drained valley’s resources, the State of Israel has finally recognized that successful development can endure only if a balanced compromise between nature and development is achieved. Consequently, a small section of the former lake and swamp region was recently reflooded in an attempt to prevent further soil deterioration and to revive the spirit of an extinct ecosystem."

      Palestine is still there.

    • "ancient homeland" is such a crock of shit

      Imagine transferring the notion to the area of relationship.s

      Where are you going, honey?
      I'm off to reclaim my rights to my ancient girlfriend, darling. She's a real goer.

    • Those pine forests - European pine- to look like Switzerland - are fireballs traps when they catch fire. Climate change will reduce the rainfall in Israel and make summers warmer.

      link to

      "Described by Israeli historian Ilan Pappe as "the quintessential Zionist colonialist," the first director of the JNF, Yossef Weitz, was a ruthless ideologue who helped orchestrate the mass expulsion of Palestinians in 1948. Weitz notoriously declared "It must be clear that there is no room in the country for both peoples ... If the Arabs leave it, the country will become wide and spacious for us ... The only solution is a Land of Israel ... without Arabs ... There is no way but to transfer the Arabs from here to the neighboring countries, to transfer all of them, save perhaps for [the Palestinian Arabs of] Bethlehem, Nazareth and the old Jerusalem. Not one village must be left, not one tribe."

      After Weitz's wishes were fulfilled, the JNF planted hundreds of thousands of trees over freshly destroyed Palestinian villages like al-Tira, helping to establish the Carmel National Park. An area on the south slope of Mount Carmel so closely resembled the landscape of the Swiss Alps that it was nicknamed "Little Switzerland." Of course, the nonindigenous trees of the JNF were poorly suited to the environment in Palestine. Most of the saplings the JNF plants at a site near Jerusalem simply do not survive, and require frequent replanting. Elsewhere, needles from the pine trees have killed native plant species and wreaked havoc on the ecosystem. And as we have seen with the Carmel wildfire, the JNF's trees go up like tinder in the dry heat. "

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