Commenter Profile

Total number of comments: 3225 (since 2009-08-08 06:29:45)


"Either we are all sacred or none of us is" - Paul Fourhorns Tenoso "One has to bear in mind that Israelis live in a largely mythic world, a somewhat modified and vastly simplified version of the Iliad. In this starkly polarized vision of reality, in which Israelis are by definition innocent victims of dark, irrational forces operating against them, heroic death in war always makes sense, and violent coercion is the option both of necessity and of choice. The Hebrew proverb says: “If force doesn’t work, use more force.” jon s November 16, 2014, 6:56 am "Hophmi, for participating in efforts to promote Jewish-Muslim understanding , is ridiculed, while Max and David , for spreading lies and promoting hatred , are to be admired." I just think Judaism needs to get back to that justice setting.

Showing comments 100 - 1

  • What the MLA vote showed: Israel is losing the battle for liberal support
    • I think they'll run out of popular support well before they run out of money .

    • Unless Israel can transfer the logic of IDF Hebrew into English it's going to keep on losing liberals.

      Zionism is such a shallow and artificial framework but there are other cultures that can express the implications of the deep sadness involved in continuously making the wrong choices and ignoring the contingency of life. And there is so much dignity in the recognition.

      The Armenians took a different path alright.

  • 'We know best how to liberate you' -- the misguided attack on Presbyterian divestment
    • Israel always, in a spirit of good faith, asks for more time, to show its good faith. And verily there has been none since 2012. So a #fail is on the cards.

  • 'Atlantic' runs unblinking account of Palestinian persecution in Hebron
    • “He gave his life for the people of Israel, its Torah and land.”

      One of the things that strikes me about Zionism its cult of purposeful martyrdom. They make a big deal about deaths in uniform. Without every single one they wouldn't have x. There is no question that every death is a contribution.

      They should ask the Germans about that sort of thinking.
      I went to see the German war graves at el Alamein once. There was a plaque outlining the work of the German war graves commission. 3 million soldiers buried behind the Iron Curtain.

      Goldstein most likely died for nothing. His brain wasn't donated to science.

  • Risk!
    • Losing the Presbyterian vote won't be Zionism's Stalingrad but it'll be an important village along the way.

  • Enter Ken Pollack and Tom Friedman-- the Iraq experts!
    • Pollock and Friedman on Iraq redux remind me of this Flannery O’Connor quote

      “Where you come from is gone, where you thought you were going to was never there, and where you are is no good unless you can get away from it."

    • link to

      "Israel has to do all it can to continue to bolster Jordan. The survival of the Hashemite kingdom is an Israeli interest of the highest order. The strategic coordination and economic ties between the two countries surged forward during the years of the Arab Spring, and it seems now that Amman needs Jerusalem more than it did in the past.
      Secondly, new developments in the Middle East are occurring at such a dizzying pace, it is very difficult to predict changes and processes. Israel, too, needs to take into account similar surprises – including, among other things, the ambitious Al-Qaida attacks in the Golan Heights, even though at the moment it would seem the organization is more preoccupied with its war on Assad and Hezbollah"

    • True, but Iran is something like 90% Shia. The combined Iraq and Syria is not.

    • Walid

      As far as I am concerned ISIS are up there with Kiryat Arba but they do have a point in that from Basra to the Syrian coast the land is controlled by the Shia.
      There has to be something for the Sunnis there. The Iraqi army ran away from Mosul because they have no mandate amongst the Sunni population.

      The Israelis are apparently worried about a Sunni link up that would eventually involve Jordan.

  • Mapping what's been lost
    • "I propose to read these maps as an example of what Herbert Marcuse called “negatively present”. [4] These maps are a very good example of the specific “environmental” forces which precondition his mind for the spontaneous repulsion of certain data, conditions, relations. "

      Zionism and space management

      link to

  • 'Kill those who rise up to kill us' -- a prime minister's chilling tweet
    • I think he only follows the one set of protocols.
      Zionism is all about provocation and revenge. A dismal ideology.

  • Israeli leader justifies force-feeding bill by pointing to Guantanamo Bay
    • The fear is part of the system of control, Yonah. It's interesting to see Zionism at the edge- say Zochrot stuff on independence day. Can't have deviations from the official line. And this dehumanizing Palestinians into the bogeypeople- it ultimately dehumanizes Jews. It's really stupid. You are destined to share the land with them.

      I remember in Ireland in the 80s hearing Ian Paisley freaking out his Protestant supporters with stories about evil Papists. He eventually went into coalition with them. Life is like that.

      G-d works in very mysterious ways.

    • Yonah

      I think that Israeli fear is nurtured by the IDF system. They like the money flows. Remind me of the RUC in northern Ireland back in the day.

      I don't see why Israelis should be afraid. Never tried peace either.
      Palestinians are just people, same as Jews.

    • Yonah

      Zionism for better or worse chose the Middle East. The Palestinians are your neighbours.
      Sure the early 2000 bombings were traumatic but Israel is primed for violence which is why all the secular kids do their army service.

      When do you give up the fear ? It's like when to plant a tree. The best time was 20 years ago. The second best time is now.

      BTW I think what really scares Israelis is Palestinian rights.

    • link to

      "Most Israelis don’t know, and don’t want to know, that in the name of natural, clear, and justified fear, they’ve become exactly the thing they fear, exactly what they are quick to accuse Palestinian terrorists of being: beasts completely devoid of passion or respect for human life, struggling for survival in the jungle, without the ability to think beyond their next meal.
      I’m not sure, but I think that most Israelis, on the margins of their awareness, actually do know that destroying every vestige of humanity is not the way to solve a conflict, or even to force an enemy to submit, but rather only a means to ensure an endless cycle of blood and hardship. This is too logical to be denied. But still.
      Knesset members Nachman Shai, Adi Kol, Yifat Kariv, Mickey Levy, Aliza Lavie, Ronen Hoffman, David Tsur, Elazar Stern and Meir Sheetrit (who was nearly elected president, and who had the support of the majority of Arab MKs) joined the gang from Habayit Hayehudi, along with Yariv Levin and Robert Ilatov, and voted for the bill permitting the force-feeding of hunger-striking prisoners. Most Israelis think these individuals are liberal, fair-minded centrist MKs. Most Israelis are wrong. "

      And what is natural about the unwarranted fear Israelis have of Palestinians ?

    • link to

      "Israel Medical Association says it could not protect member physicians outside country; Knesset bill would allow jails to ask court for permission to force-feed hunger-striking prisoner whose life is in danger."

      IMA of course agrees with whatever the Knesset says.

    • The problem with justifying Israeli behavior by what goes on in war is that innocent Jews are murdered in Brussels using the same justification.

      The problem with justifying force feeding because it is done in Guantanamo Bay is that the logic will also apply to Jews in the future.

    • It doesn't even meet its treaty obligations. It compares unfavourably to Moldova. Where did it all go wrong ?

    • Obama has been prez for 6 years and he did nothing about gitmo. Only 1/3 of the prisoners would be charged in a genuine justice system. Beltway dysfunction keeps them all incarcerated.

    • They always find an excuse but this is such a long way from what the Jewish state was supposed to be

      link to

      "Yea, He saith, 'It is too light a thing for you to be My servant, to establish the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the scions of Israel, and I shall submit you as a light unto the nations, to be My salvation until the end of the earth' Isaiah 49:6."I the LORD have called unto you in righteousness, and have taken hold of your hand, and submitted you as the people's covenant, as a light unto the nations" Isaiah 42:6."And unto your light, nations shall walk, and kings unto the brightness of your rising" Isaiah 60:3.
      The context of these three references (ch. 41–42, 49, and 60) are a prophecy of comfort (Hebrew: נבואת נחמה) and a promise to the people of Israel, in which God will restore the people of Israel to their land, and this return will cause the rest of the nations to open their eyes, and look up to the people of Israel."

      and we look at the people of Israel and verily do we see this

      link to

      and ,frankly, it's not very kosher

      But that is the only way to keep the Judenstaat going, innit.

  • 'We've succeeded in taking peace negotiations off agenda,' Israeli leader crows
    • Well, Yonah

      How many of them have roots elsewhere even if...
      they have nowhere to go ®....

    • The Menachem Begin prize is awarded each year to the person who most dehumanizes Arabs without having a nervous breakdown , in reflection of the enormous contribution of Mr Begin to the field, although he did of course lose his sanity in the end.

    • I don't think he's a settler. He lives behind the green line AFAIK.

    • "It is as if U.S. and Israeli Jews are in separate compartments with no real contact beside muffled, incomprehensible word-sounds. "

      I am guessing that would be the Hebrew issue.
      What makes sense in IDF Hebrew is repugnant in English. What does "neighbor procedure" mean, for example ?

    • They are turning off the water in Holon because they spend so much on the parasites in Hebron, Yonah.
      That is an internal Israeli political matter. Israelis seem to prefer Hebron. They don't seem to vote for poverty alleviation.

  • 'Numb, speechless, sad', Israel supporters grieve Cantor's loss
    • The security of the US is dependent on Israel? Pull the other one.

      Cantor should have looked after his VA garden. The US recovery is very patchy and there isn't much spare time for fripperies like Zionism.

  • Local activists welcome Gates Foundation divestment of all shares from G4S
    • And this was SO important to the people of Richmond that they dumped him. The moral of the story? All politics is local and it's the economy, stupid

    • The reaction to the Cantor flop has been very juicy

      link to

      "The dream of a Jewish Republican speaker of the House is no more," wrote Politico's Alexander Burns. "[F]or Jewish Republicans, Cantor is a singular figure, the only Jewish member of the House majority and the lone Jewish leader in a party that has strenuously courted the community in recent presidential elections, to little avail."
      Matt Brooks, the president of the Republican Jewish Coalition, went so far as to call Cantor's defeat "one of those incredible, evil twists of fate that just changed the potential course of history." "

      1948 was one of those incredible, evil twists of fate. 1967 was another.

      "Of course, the shock outcome is about more than Jews in politics. The election is "a bad omen for moderates," The New York Times reported. "

      MEP = moderate except for Palestine

    • Slowly turning screws.

      Whenever the choice is between Zionism and money, Zionism is going to lose.

  • Palestinians 'under occupation... denied dignity and self-determination' -- Clinton
    • HaDersh is anxious

      link to

      "I do think that a combination of factors – the occupation, the settlements – were the cause of it, but the BDS movement now questions the legitimacy of Israel’s very existence,” he said. “My great fear is that tomorrow, if Israel were to end most of the settlements and make peace, the BDS movement might be weakened a little bit in some parts of the United States. But I don’t think it would have any impact in Europe. I don’t think it would have any impact on the hard hard left. I think that they have become so wedded to Israel’s demonization and delegitimization that nothing Israel does can change that effectively today.”

      Others are more clear eyed

      “For large numbers of followers of the BDS movement – the students, the diplomats, the international institutions who are influenced by the rhetoric - they look at the occupation, they look at the status of the Palestinians and that is what turns their hearts against us many times,” said Shavit, currently a research fellow at the Hoover Institution at Stanford University"

    • I think US Zionism is very vulnerable to

      "There go the people. I must follow them, for I am their leader."
      link to

      It's easy to forget that economic policy is being run on a trial basis and nobody knows how it's going to pan out. There is so much uncertainty.

      The economy ultimately is more important than "Isreal".
      Isreal is not real.

    • "If that’s the tree you want to bark up, I wish you luck.”

      Things are changing alright. You can still be pro Israel but anti sadism. Or is the red heifer only going to come if Sodom and Gomorrah are reformed?

  • Settler leader Dani Dayan given yet another platform in the NY Times
    • "Why should Israel make any “concessions” to international law and common decency when there are absolutely no negative consequences for intransigence?"

      Because of the Jewish future when the tables are turned. People are going to pay for what is being done now.

      Maybe that period in bondage in Egypt was revenge for YESHA type cruelty that went before.

      There is so much common sense in those Jewish holidays but the Israelis just don't get it.

  • Chris Matthews and David Corn defend Israel against 'slander' of apartheid
    • "Israel is not an asset"

      you said it. It's a wedge issue.

    • Certain members of the Israeli leadership have mentioned in several interviews that they want to ease their dependence on the US. Bennett especially sees the change in the US debate and thinks they can offset it by trading with Asia.

      Bukra fi mishmish.

    • It looks like they are pushing too hard. Kerry is fairly senior and he said what he said knowingly.

  • 'Israel is bitterly dividing American Jewish community' -- AP
    • Jewish soldiers will soon be ethnically cleansing Bedouin nomads from near east Jerusalem

      link to

      "An army base is located several kilometers south of Sateh al-Bahr. The settlement of Mitzpeh Yeriho, which was built in 1977, is several hundred meters to the north, on the other side of the expanding Highway 1. The inhabitants were members of the Yeriho group, which was established by members of Gush Enumin and adherents of Rabbi Meir Kahane.

      In 2012, several members of the Hamadeen clan decided to exchange their tin shacks – unbearably hot in summer and freezing cold in winter – for mobile homes donated by the European Union. These mobile homes have kitchenettes, showers and polystyrene boards for insulation inside the prefabricated walls. Several vegetable gardens were planted in the yards between them.

      But the mobile homes awakened sleeping bears. The residents received demolition orders from the Civil Administration. Attorney Shlomo Lecker petitioned the High Court of Justice against the orders. After all, he said, the mobile homes took up no more space than the shacks had. Was a Bedouin not allowed to improve his living conditions? In November 2012, the High Court justice issued an interim injunction preventing the mobile homes from demolition.

      On April 24, Justice Uzi Fogelman held a preliminary hearing on the petition. Attorney Reuven Edelman of the State Prosecutor’s Office, who represented the army and the Civil Administration, said that the state proposed that the petitioners move to the township where the Civil Administration was planning to move thousands more Bedouin of the Jahalin tribe north of Jericho. The master plan had not been presented for formal objections it had undergone, though, some changes following objections from the Jordan Valley Regional Council, which is amalgamating the region’s settlements).

      This is state-owned land, about 2,000 dunams (about 490 acres), a pocket of Area C within the Jericho enclave (in Area A, which is under the Palestinian Authority’s control). The Civil Administration intends to amass between 3,800 and 6,000 Bedouin into the township, against their tradition and tribal law, and without allowing them any grazing land.

      Plans for expelling the Bedouin from their encampments in Area C in the West Bank and concentrating them into several permanent townships have been devised in the Civil Administration’s halls for at least a decade. "

      Light unto the world my ass

    • "Many Jewish leaders worry the infighting could not only undermine U.S. support for Israel, but also drive away the younger American Jews who are pressing for a broader definition of what it means to be pro-Israel. "

      Death sentence. If it's not moral the kids won't buy it.
      Without the kids there is no long term support in Galut.

  • Boston subway ads are shocking-- 'and so is the reality on the ground'
    • Very impressive.
      What a mess they have made for themselves in occupied Palestine.

      The problem they are going to have increasingly in the States is that basically nobody Stateside understands IDF Hebrew, the only language in which all of this is logical.

  • Let it go
    • link to

      The hasbara glows white on Mount Zion tonight
      Not a Facebook like to be seen.
      A kingdom of isolation,
      and it looks like Bibi's the Queen
      BDS is howling like this swirling storm inside
      Couldn't keep it in;
      Heaven knows I've tried

      Don't let them in,
      don't let them see
      Be the IDF Jew you always have to be
      Conceal, don't feel,
      don't let them know
      Well now they know

      Let it go, let it go
      Can't hold it back anymore

    • I thought this was going to be about Frozen.

  • Hillary Clinton's flipflop: We were wrong to take hard line against settlements
    • Maybe it'll end up as another wing of BDS

      The EU pays for a lot of what Israel won't.

    • The EU is going in the opposite direction to the Dems

      Barroso tells Israel to get real

      link to
      "If no peace negotiations take place and no progress is made, the EU and Israel will have to address contentious and divisive issues, including further acceleration of the EU's policy on disengagement from the settlements. On these matters - which touch upon core values held dear throughout the EU - the Union will be compelled to act in accordance with its beliefs and its rules.

      In the long term, security and prosperity can only be sustained if the right makes the might and not the other way round. There will always be those who resist peace, but for leaders on both sides, even if it may seem politically safer to keep the status quo, it is important to put the strategic interests of their countries and their people above short-term considerations. I am firmly convinced that ultimately the path of negotiations and of a two state solution is the only one that will lead to a secure and prosperous Israel"

    • Valerie: But the good life is really here in Israel!

      In Kiryat Arba

    • I think she is wrong on arming the Syrian rebels, on trouser suits and now this

    • Hillary -"We were wrong to take a hard line against donor money. How shortsighted of us. The money can live anywhere. And the Palestinians have no money."

    • They reminded me of Chris Christie apologizing to Adelson for using the term "occupied territories"

      link to

      And this

      link to

      "Netanyahu explains how he stood up to the U.S., kept building settlements
      ‘Peace talks? What peace talks,’ the Israeli prime minister jokes with supporters from his party.
      Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu boasted of his settlement building achievements in a recent meeting with young Likud supporters. Responding to a question from the audience, Netanyahu said: “I was threatened in Washington: ‘not one brick’ [of settlement construction] … after five years, we built a little more than one brick…”
      Asked “about peace talks with the Palestinians,” Netanyahu reportedly replied, “about the – what?” to which the audience responded by breaking out into laughter"


    • The whole Israel thing is very like the US stock market. It's too scary to think about the risk so just take the money and pretend everything is normal. Anyway, it'll blow up on someone else's watch.

    • Yeah, it was so wrong to "come down hard" on the settlements, even if come down hard meant they never stopped growing.

      link to

      "Hello, can I ask which of you is flying?
      Moriah: I’m going for three weeks. I have a friend who has American citizenship and now lives in Louisiana, and I am going to visit her. I haven’t seen her for a long time. We might go on from there to Miami or Mexico.
      Valerie: But the good life is really here in Israel!
      Who are the escorts?
      Moriah: My sister and my aunt, Valerie. Family. Who else would take me to the airport?
      Valerie: I actually immigrated to Israel from France because of them.
      Because of my sister, their mother. I immigrated 18 years ago, 10 years after her. I would always come to visit, and I like best being with my nephews and nieces.
      Were you born Jewish?
      Of course. I grew up in a Jewish neighborhood in Paris, but if you want to be Jewish it’s better here. All my siblings are here now, thank God. After I married, it was obvious that I would raise my children here. I didn’t want everything around to have to do with gentiles.
      Did your husband agree to come here?
      It was understood. My husband grew up in France and it was clear to him, too. We were married here and we have, thank God, five children, touch wood.
      How did you end up in Kiryat Arba?
      At first I lived in Jerusalem and went to an ulpan [Hebrew-language course]. My sister already lived in Kiryat Arba, and I saw that there was a pleasant atmosphere there. I liked the way the children were growing up. Kiryat Arba has changed for the better – it used to be said that only settlers live there, today it has everything. "

      It's important that Jews can live anywhere they want in Erez Israel and have easy access to the airport, even if that means that 5 million people live half lives of poverty and restricted movement.

      And Kiryat Arba is fabulous- it has everything, although still no Palestinians.
      But they wouldn't understand and they love their lives.

      And this Jim Crow is going to fly indefinitely, is it? Hill needs the money but which Dem is going to follow his or her people and pull the plug ?

  • Israeli forces crack down on Palestinian press
  • Meet Aryeh King: The brash right-wing settler bent on evicting Jerusalem's Palestinians
    • "but he need to accept (sic) that it’s not just another land.”

      They really opened Pandora's box in 1967

      link to

      " Elboim has a message for Haaretz readers, which he delivered without actually speaking to me directly. “There are two nations in Israel, a religious nation and a secular nation,” he said. “Two distant nations, different and separate. We could have disregarded the others and said that there is no need to address this other nation, which does not want to accept us and does not understand us. But we need the seculars in order to bring us down to the lower spheres.

      “For us,” he continued, “the problem is how to connect between body and spirit, between flesh and soul. I cannot enter the mind of those who are there, because I am not a penitent, and explain why the Temple is important. It will be the most precious and most joyous thing. Every good thing is attached to the Temple. At present all is desolate, and when it returns all will be rebuilt, from the foundation. All these things shall be repaired. The Jewish culture. We will have a unified nation, a happy nation.”
      From the time of the Second Temple, Naiweld explained, there have been two approaches in the Jewish world to the essence of halakhic law. “Daniel Schwartz addressed this subject 20 years ago in a groundbreaking article. There is the approach of the priests, which presents a realistic conception of halakha, holding that the law is determined by the nature of things. In other words, something will be pure or impure because it is pure or impure by the nature of its creation; because God created it pure or impure. In the face of this, there is the Pharisaic-rabbinical conception of the law, which is a nominalist concept. It holds that the halakha was determined by the human agent, which in the case of the Talmud consists of a group of rabbis who decide whether something is pure or impure, and this categorization does not derive from the inherent nature of the things.

      “The struggle between these two approaches existed throughout Jewish history,” he added. “In the Second Temple period, it is seen in the struggle between the Pharisees and the Sadducees. You can see it in the form of people like [the late] Yeshayahu Leibowitz, who sanctify the law, the halakha, which is the determining element: intellectual religiosity, as compared with messianic movements − for whom halakha is divine law, because it expresses the true nature of objects and of human beings. That is why viewpoints like this will assume a very essentialist direction in terms of racism as well, because of the difference between Jews and Gentiles: A Jew is by the nature of his creation a purer being. Similarly with the holiness of the land: The soil of Israel is essentially holier, the stones are holier because the land was destined by God to serve as the place of the Children of Israel.”

      And they laugh at the Shia

    • Entropy, just. In nature, the only way to survive long term is to face challenges and learn from them. Israel is shielded from everything. And then El Gordo will arrive. The whole thing is going to collapse.

    • Agree, Krauss. The system is the problem. The reasonable people who run the system are far more dangerous than the mavericks. It's not the Kahanes, it's the civil servants and the judges .It's the system that has to be taken down.

  • Shmuel Rosner's RX in the NYT: Occupation forever
    • "Occupation forever" sounds too much like bukra fi mishmish.

      I used to wonder why the First Jewish kingdom didn't endure and it came down to numbers and regional power fade.
      Why would now be any different? Because Israelis are going to concentrate? They don't understand the risk that goes with YESHA

    • "Occupation forever because we want to “maintain Israel’s essence”"

      Israel is rotting from the inside. It can't ever be stable. The essence is putrid.
      link to

  • Teju Cole explains (and shows) that one side has been dispossessed in Israel and Palestine
    • That hotel looks so inviting. I can image breakfast with ahwa (dayman) and labneh.

      A great piece in the FT. The bots and their brittle ideology

      "Whatever is written is examined not only for what it includes but for what it leaves out: have we acknowledged the horror of the Holocaust? The perfidy of the Palestinian Authority? The callousness of Hamas?"

      And the banal cruelty

      "Dr Tawfiq Nasser, who runs the hospital, tells us about a man from Gaza who had the wrong ID and thus for eight years couldn’t see his son, whose ID was similarly restrictive. The man was diagnosed with cancer and finally got a permit to enter Jerusalem. He went to see his son in the West Bank, spent three weeks with him, came back to the hospital for one week of chemotherapy, and returned to Gaza and died"

      And this is the fulfillment of Scripture, of course.

  • Video: 'CBS This Morning' runs hard hitting spot on boycott of Israel
  • Israel announces major escalation in settlement expansion (Update)
    • Australia would be far better off engaging with climate change.
      Even if Moshiach turns up with a red heifer Australia is not going to avoid serious climate damage the way things are going.

    • link to

      Netanyahu explains how he stood up to the U.S., kept building settlements
      ‘Peace talks? What peace talks,’ the Israeli prime minister jokes with supporters from his party.
      Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu boasted of his settlement building achievements in a recent meeting with young Likud supporters. Responding to a question from the audience, Netanyahu said: “I was threatened in Washington: ‘not one brick’ [of settlement construction] … after five years, we built a little more than one brick…”
      Asked “about peace talks with the Palestinians,” Netanyahu reportedly replied, “about the – what?” to which the audience responded by breaking out into laughter.

    • Israel is such a train wreck. Building settlements IS the system.
      They lie to us and then they lie to themselves about lying to us. And then they call us anti-Semites.

      link to

      "The crack teaches about the whole. The testimony of a Palestinian, his life experience, the field work of journalists that is based on witness accounts and their corroboration, on millions of such “stories” – all this does not matter. The Arab is lying until proven otherwise, and when proven otherwise it’s presented as a regrettable and unusual instance that calls for investigation, and is quickly forgotten. And even if not forgotten – it is never perceived as a link in an ongoing chain, a continuum, as a detail in an existing, thriving pattern. We see the results of this pattern in the abundant vineyards and expanding neighborhoods of the settlements, and in the warning signs placed at the entrance to reservations – those parts of the West Bank from which we haven’t managed to expel the Palestinians. "

    • link to

      " Two weeks ago I attended a memorial for my old Knesset colleague Victor Shem Tov. I told them that Victor, who like me had opposed the first Lebanon war, said to me in the midst of the fighting, “You know, Yossi, this war is also a personal tragedy for me. I, unlike you, believed them, but from now on I won’t be able to believe anymore. How can you take their word when the defense minister and chief of staff sit with us here, in the Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee, and lie to us brazenly. I’ve had enough. I’m finished.” "

      link to

      And that was 36 years ago, although the song is a bit older.
      And the lies have built a massive YESHA, haven't they ?
      And what are they going to do now ? Scream at the world ?

    • Nice try

      Actually, it really reminds me of this

    • Israel announces major new settlement push. Over 1500 homes will be built in Har ShootyourselfinHaFoot, a new plane of idiocy and Jewish insanity just outside Jerusalem.

      It is believed something was added to the water in late 1966 and the entire Jewish population of Israel is now fucking nuts.

      They expect the goys to fall over every time they see a picture of Anne Frank.

    • What is the point? When they lay the foundations for housing for Jews in the West Bank they are actually building the infrastructure for an explosion in anti-Semitism.

  • BDS lays the basis for a true peace process
    • The Jewish state has to retreat to morally defensible borders, Mondonut.

      If you won't do it, Galut will.

    • Mondonut

      You need to get real. YESHA has to go.
      You have lost the argument.
      I haven't seen any credible hasbara in the FT for some time.

      link to

      "if Israel maintains its occupation, and spurns the peace terms being negotiated by US secretary of state John Kerry, such distinctions will erode. European pension funds are already starting to pull their investments in Israeli banks with branches in the settlements.

      Israeli leaders, from former prime ministers Ehud Barak and Ehud Olmert to Tzipi Livni and Yair Lapid, justice and finance ministers in the present rightwing government of Benjamin Netanyahu, have warned that Israel faces ostracism unless it makes a deal on Palestine. Now it is the settlements that are being targeted. But that could easily morph into a general boycott.

      It is disingenuous to romanticise settlement enterprises. The occupation imprisons thousands of the Palestinians’ young men, gives their land and water to settlers, demolishes their houses and partitions the remaining territory with scores of checkpoints and segregated roads. There are almost no basic foundations for an economy. The way to create Palestinian jobs is to end the occupation and let Palestinians build those foundations – not to build “bridges to peace” on other people’s land without their permission."

  • Check out the new Rolling Stones logo
    • "Doesn’t ANYBODY here see the humour in members bemoaning the fact that they will now have to boycott their favorite rock band? "

      Yeah DaBakr. There hasn't been any new music since 1967
      Jerusalem of Gold was the decent song LOL.

    • Keep up the great work Zach. I have never heard any of your amazing points before.

      What about cold blooded murder of innocent people in Gaza just because they are not Jewish ? Or do they not count ?

  • Dershowitz disqualifies an entire continent from supporting BDS, citing history of 'Jew hatred'
    • This BDS = Jew hatred is nonsense.

      So you walk past a checkpoint and an Israeli soldier in uniform is kicking a Palestinian woman .

      What is your reaction?

      a) that woman is being kicked by a soldier. That is not right
      b) the soldier is Jewish, World War 2 was dreadful, things are far worse in the DRC, nothing to see here

      Ethics MATTER. Why else are Israelis told that their army is the most ethical in the world, even though it clearly isn't?

    • Blaming Hitler for Apartheid that Jews chose to run is not going to fly much longer in Galut, Yonah. I'm surprised by the speed at which the debate is changing in Europe. I remember being at a Palestine Solidarity meeting in London in 2001 where the issue of BDS came up.One elderly Jewish lady said that boycotting Jews would be an uncomfortable reminder of the 30s and that Israel should be given time to do the decent thing.
      It got 10 years. It didn't do anything.

      The Shoah will only buy so much time. At the end of the day does it really matter who gets shafted ?

      The Afrikaners back in the 80s were convinced they were right but reality is uncomfortable when the winds shift.

      You need constant support from the US 'family' across the generations and I can't see that panning out. Apartheid is a serious moral hole and whining while ignoring the abuses of today is not going to work.

      It's very sad. The dynamics are dreadful.

    • Young educated liberal Yank Jews vs young ignorant Israeli IDF fodder

      Yeah, they have SO MUCH in common.

    • They are really afraid of smart non violent action. They have nothing in the idf to counter it, the memes all suddenly flaccid, arguments fallen away.

    • Yonah
      Irish Americans are nowhere near as deluded as Israeli Jews, prolly because they are not part of a paranoid military system , but they have drifted apart from Ireland over the generations. Geography will do that. I don't buy any jewish argument that says we can't because...

      The fall of zionism is going to involve external moral force that Israel will not be able to resist.
      Israeli judaism might as well schism from US Jewish observance the way things are going. Even if 40% of jews live in Israel they are dead wrong. Apartheid will tear the community apart anyway.

      Israel is a desperately Jewish tragedy. All those Nobels and not a single adult in charge.

    • Zach

      Why is Judaism stuck between intermarriage and torture of Palestinians? Which is the lesser evil ?

    • And the way the lobby in the US uses money to shield Israel from international criticism and support the abuse of the Palestinians is straight out of a very dangerous book.

    • Lashing judaism to the mast of the sinking SS Zionism is ultra dangerous. Zionism is an odious ideology that is out of place in 2014. It has no moral defence. It runs on lies and torture.
      Judaism should get an amicable divorce.

    • How did justice for the Palestinians turn into Jew hatred ?
      Surely Judaism is about justice.

  • I am Palestinian, and I am human, and I am here
    • "There was something very troublesome about the Pope's visit. From the moment he came off the plane, wherever he went, Pope Francis preached a consistent message; he spoke about peace, he prayed for peace and he coaxed others to join him in working toward it. Whether he was among Jews visiting a Holocaust Memorial or praying with the Palestinians in Bethlehem and at the Separation Barrier, his point was the same – a clear call for a two state solution, an end to violence and the building of good relations between Jews and Palestinians. He did not stop there. The Pope searched for like-minded people and determined that they would be his partners in his quest for peace. He alighted on President Shimon Peres and Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, inviting them to join him in Rome to pray for peace. Incredibly, despite that neither of these two men is Roman Catholic, they accepted his invitation.
      Even the chief rabbis of Israel latched on to the Pope's campaign. At the rabbis' meeting with him the pope, which I attended, Ashkenazi Chief Rabbi David Lau concluded his speech by asking the head of the Catholic Church to use his influence to gather religious leaders to discuss world peace. "Be a partner with us" he said "and establish an international interfaith conference to advance this crucial message."
      Herein lies our disgrace.
      Our Biblical ancestors were trailblazers charged with bringing blessing to all of humanity. Our prophets stood before kings and princes, critiquing their leadership and giving the greatest ever vision of universal peace.Their sentiments were brought to our prayer book so that all our major prayers end with a call for peace. They were also echoed in Israel's Declaration of Independence, which sought peaceful coexistence of Jews and Arabs in Israel and with neighboring states. In short, the pope used our lines.
      We can only admire his ability and determination to express a clear vision of peace and to persuade our president to join him in prayer, but I am left wondering why our own spiritual leadership failed to make the same call to our head of state. Rome is known for its impressive architecture and some rather magnificent places of worship, but Jerusalem too has a strong claim as a religious center and it would, after all, save a lot of time and money if our leaders began their prayers amid our people in Jerusalem.
      I admire the pope for making his way to the separation barrier to pray for peace there, but given that Bethlehem is just a short hop from Jerusalem, I wonder whether our own religious leaders could not have made the trip, offering thanks to the soldiers who protect us and acting as our ambassadors for peace.
      The Jewish people are charged with being the ethical leaders of the world, Jerusalem is meant to be the city of peace and we are meant to be the shining moral example; "a light of the nations" (Isaiah 42:7).
      But, instead of seeing us as an inspirational sovereign Jewish state, the nations of the world take pity on us. "You are incapable of taking care of yourselves," they say, "so we will send peace envoys and religious leaders to stand in the breach and do your work for you.” We have become the world's nursery, with a perpetual chain of babysitters dispatched by the international community to coax us into seeking peace.
      We live in a tough neighborhood, surrounded by people committed to our destruction. Successfully ending the occupation and signing treaties will take great military knowledge and strategic expertise. While that is the job of the military and political echelons, it does not detract from the role of our religious leaders to preach and pursue peace.
      The pope did not put us to shame because he worships differently or because of his credo that we cannot share. He shamed us because in the very areas where we share beliefs, we have abandoned our sacred role and relied on others to seize the initiative.
      Rabbi Gideon Sylvester is the British United Synagogue's Israel Rabbi and the Senior Rabbinic Educator for T'ruah, the Rabbinic Call for Human Rights. He writes in a personal capacity. "

      They lie to us and they lie to themselves about lying to us

    • I think they have the advantage of all that Israel has done, all the bad faith.The hasbara is less monolithic and people are more eager to listen.

    • The young Palestinian generation is very impressive. So many strong people

    • You are sadly deluded, Woody. It is prolly because you are jealous.

      They are the ethical inspiration for everyone at Penn so they couldn't possibly drink or fornicate. (What a lovely word it is, too).

      It goes against everything they are taught.
      link to
      "Our Biblical ancestors were trailblazers charged with bringing blessing to all of humanity. Our prophets stood before kings and princes, critiquing their leadership and giving the greatest ever vision of universal peace"

      How could you possibly allow alcohol to pass your lips with those ancestors ?

    • Wonderful people, the sha'ab al falastini.

    • That is such a repudiation of everything Judaism used to stand for.
      Zionism is such a tragedy. The wrong answer to WW2.

  • Palestinian unity deal pits Netanyahu & Congress against White House
    • AIPAC lay it on thick

      link to

      "The embrace of the notorious Islamist terrorist organization is a disturbing setback to peace."

      WTF . Peace was buried a number of years ago

      "President Abbas could have continued to pursue the peace process with his willing WTF partner, Israel. Instead, he chose to align with Hamas – a group that is dedicated to Israel’s destruction (Says the crowd running the siege of Gaza) and represents the antithesis of peaceful reconciliation WTF and coexistence WTF . Hamas is an unreformed terrorist organization (as is the IDF) that continues to perpetrate terror attacks against Israel and has consistently rebuffed the international community (as has Israel) by refusing to accept the Quartet principles of recognizing Israel, rejecting violence and accepting previous Israel-Palestinian agreements (as has Israel)

      U.S. law is clear – no funds can be provided to a Palestinian government in which Hamas participates or has undue influence."

      What a dumb law. Let's see the law worked around.
      And AIPAC's BS about the peace process is pathetic.

      Prolly why the rest of the world is ignoring AIPAC on this issue.

    • He is a complete bunny boiler when it comes to international diplomacy

      link to

      The list of US vetoes at the UN for Israel is shameful
      link to

      I wonder how long more the series will last.

    • That terrorist meme is way past its sell by date. Especially post mavi marmara.

    • Bibi hasn't had any diplomatic wins recently. Those Iran talks went ahead even after he threw his toys out of the pram.

  • Blacklisted by the 'Jewish community' over Israel, the Shondes take their stand
    • The attempt to micromanage thought is so typical of apartheid

      link to

      "In an autobiographical essay from 1954 she writes about growing up in South Africa:
      For me, one of the confusing things…was the strange shift—every year or two when I was small, and then weekly, daily almost, when I was adolescent—in my consciousness of, and attitude towards, the Africans around me.
      ive years later, she writes about being white in South Africa:
      We do not suffer, but we are coarsened. Even to continue to live here is to acquiesce in some measure to apartheid—to a sealing off of responses, the cauterisation of the human heart.

      Two years later, she is predicting the end of white power: “The white man, as a power, is fast becoming extinct in Africa.”

      Then there are elegies for those who have been destroyed by the system, including as essay written about the black journalist Nat Nakasa in 1966:
      He did not calculate the population as thirteen million or three million, but as sixteen. He belonged not between two worlds, but to both. And in him one could see the hope of one world. He has left that hope behind; there will be others to take it up.
      Then there is a note of exasperation in an essay ten years later:
      With unprecedentedly strong criticism of the government coming from its own newspapers and prominent Afrikaners as well as the opposition, it is baffling to read that at the same time 60 per cent of whites…support Mr. Vorster’s National Party.
      In 1981, she writes about censorship: “I am one who has always believed and still believes we shall never be rid of censorship until we are rid of apartheid.” In 1999, with apartheid over, she describes how it is to live under the new freedom:
      I am aware now, every day, in so many ways, big and small, happy and troubling, that I can speak of “our country.” If the air of taking possession can be palpable, I feel it when I walk out of my gate. I hear it in the volume of traffic….It is that indefinable quality called confidence.
      The eighteen years in between and the years after give her the opportunity to write about the new world as it struggled out of its chrysalis, and figures such as Nelson Mandela and Desmond Tutu. An essay from 1990 begins:
      I have just come home from the rally that welcomed Nelson Mandela back to Soweto. It was the occasion of a lifetime for everyone there; including the dot in the crowd that was myself, as one of the whites who have identified with the African National Congress through the years when it was a crime to do so. "

    • "Jews have wildly different traditions, experiences, and opinions about what Jewish-ness even is"

      Maybe in Galut but not in Israel. It's IDF Hebrew lockstep. Most ethical army in the world and anyone who disagrees gets their head kicked in .
      Kosher lemehadrin.

    • Purity is impossible in power. Judaism could never run a state and not be soiled by the experience.

    • link to

      "The Jewish people are charged with being the ethical leaders of the world, Jerusalem is meant to be the city of peace and we are meant to be the shining moral example; "a light of the nations" (Isaiah 42:7). "

      Bukra fi mishmish

    • It's very sad to see Jewish orgs blacklisting anyone who dares speak out about justice in Israel.
      It's just not kosher.

      When did it all go putrid ?

  • For wearing veil, woman is ordered off Jerusalem light rail and frisked
    • Darkness has a hunger that's insatiable
      And Zochrot has a call that's hard to hear

      But they are there, as a witness

      I still don't understand how there is so little dissent in Israel.

    • Walid

      all the pomp of the Zionist state- the uniforms, the Herzl cemetery, Yom Ha 1, Yom Ha 2, yom Ha 3, the standing to attention, the flags , the Ron Arad bring them all back alive, the Peres statesmanshit, those photos from 67, the Jerusalem is gold song, the day they sound the klaxons, the abuse of the Star of David, checkpoints, the sunglasses, the women in uniform, the iterations- they are all supposed to erase the memory of what came before. And one sentence in Arabic brings it back. Ma sha allah. And that is why they HATE Zochrot.

    • I had a friend in jalazoun camp who wanted to go the other side of the green line in 2000. We went to west jerusalem and jaffa. I'll never forget the feeling walking around mahane yehuda market speaking arabic and the looks we got. I am reminded of it watching zochrot videos. Zionism is too fragile for honesty about the Palestinian experience.

  • Yes the Palestinians got 'screwed' -- John Judis defends vernacular at Museum of Jewish Heritage
    • Israel was and is an imperial project. It was never just . No people would acquiesce in their own dispossession. They always have to be shafted.

      As long as the petrol flows Israel will be.
      But the future is very long and diplomacy will be required.

    • And it takes up so much of the energy of Israeli Jewish society- why, it almost wipes out all the good of the prayers.

  • Michael Oren finds Israel vindicated by UN report that it slaughtered 101 civilians, including 33 children
  • Palestine unity government to be sworn in Monday (Update)
    • Israel wouldn't negotiate with the palestinians because they were divided and won't negotiate now because they are unified

      Zionism is so nihilistically pointless

      I feel so sorry for the prophets. They had no idea how useless their descendants would turn out to be

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