Commenter Profile

Total number of comments: 4588 (since 2009-08-08 06:29:45)


"Either we are all sacred or none of us is" - Paul Fourhorns Tenoso "One has to bear in mind that Israelis live in a largely mythic world, a somewhat modified and vastly simplified version of the Iliad. In this starkly polarized vision of reality, in which Israelis are by definition innocent victims of dark, irrational forces operating against them, heroic death in war always makes sense, and violent coercion is the option both of necessity and of choice. The Hebrew proverb says: “If force doesn’t work, use more force.” jon s November 16, 2014, 6:56 am "Hophmi, for participating in efforts to promote Jewish-Muslim understanding , is ridiculed, while Max and David , for spreading lies and promoting hatred , are to be admired." I just think Judaism needs to get back to that justice setting.

Showing comments 100 - 1

  • Oppression by consensus in Israeli 'democracy'
    • Avigail

      I think you are in a place similar to where Sophie Scholl was in Germany in 1943.
      link to

      You know the system is insane and that it is going to crash and that a lot of the people have been led to think there is no alternative and that the memes are all wrong. And that the ordinary people will be sacrificed by the elite.

      And all the leaders are complicit and there is no political alternative and it looks awful.

      But Germany made it eventually. It took a lot of hard work to get rid of all the deadwood and build up more rational institutions . Himmler thought he could take over after Hitler killed himself but the whole ideology had to be destroyed.

      Willy Brandt came out of nowhere to lead the rebirth.

      So it has been done before. Germany had a lot of good under all the crap in 1945. Judaism does too (but not under current management) .

      It would have been much easier to fix this in 1948 but that didn't happen. It will happen. It must happen.

    • Avigail

      I see where you are coming from but Judaism is much bigger than Zionism.
      It has the potential to be cleansed and redeemed. If it lasted over 2000 years it must have stuff that is worth keeping.

      Zionism was a tremendously costly detour down a dead end, but we still need Judaism.

      "Either we are all sacred or nobody is" would be a good place to start.

      link to

      “I am not a religious Jew, my family were not religious Jews. But I feel that I am a representation of the Jewish spirit, whatever that might be. To me, it is honesty, rectitude, intellectual achievement.

    • "Proud Israeli Jews, unlike submissive Jews in the diaspora that were at the mercy of tyrants and the mob. "

      You have no clue, Mahane . How could you, growing up with that education?

      link to

      “I am not a religious Jew, my family were not religious Jews. But I feel that I am a representation of the Jewish spirit, whatever that might be. To me, it is honesty, rectitude, intellectual achievement.

    • Walid

      Yrn will fight to the last meme

    • Avigail

      Great to see you back. You understand the sickness of Israeli society from the inside. Dr Nurit is another Mensch but there aren't enough of you ..yet

    • " Could a teacher in Kansas have questioned the morality of the U.S. atomic bomb program and not been threatened with losing his job?"

      McCarthyism didn't last 67 years.

      link to
      link to
      link to
      link to

      A lot of the Dems in power now can trace their route to the convulsions of the 1960s

  • Shaking up Zionism: A review of 'Zionism Unsettled: A Congregational Study Guide'
    • It was in this article.

      link to

      After the war there were "roughly eleven million foreigners stranded in Germany, often in ghastly conditions, after surviving years of hard labor and imprisonment in labor camps, concentration camps, death camps, and POW camps. This human detritus of war, slavery, forced labor, and genocide included Jews from all over Europe and the Soviet Union. But many more were non-Jewish Yugoslavs, Poles, Russians, Ukrainians, Balts, Italians, Dutch, Belgians, French, and others.
      Some wanted to go back to their home countries as quickly as possible. Others wanted to go anywhere but their old homes. Others had no homes to go back to. Some were too dazed by recent experience to know quite what they wanted. And this does not include the millions of Germans who had been brutally expelled from parts of Czechoslovakia, Silesia, and East Prussia, where in many cases their families had lived for centuries. Nor does it include Germans who were bombed out of their homes. Borowski, as it happens, did go back to Poland, where he committed suicide in 1951.
      The Allied armies, chiefly the Americans, Soviets, and British, were faced with the kind of catastrophe left in the wake of most wars, but the scale in 1945 was unprecedented. And despite many wartime Allied conferences about what to do with refugees, survivors, and destitute populations, they were almost wholly unprepared"

      The Zionists turned up and scoured the camps for Jews. The Poles didn't want the Jews (trauma, iron curtain ), the Brits didn't (money) , the Romanians didn't (Iron curtain),
      The bots did.

      Israel was a short term win win situation
      But long term very messy

      When they got to Israel they were given new identities and a new nationalistic ideology.
      Zionism was always provincial and out of touch with the wider Western world ;)

    • "But the overwhelming advice offered by the antiZionists on this web site is: Jews, stop being Jewish and then your worries will disappear. Relax and disappear."
      That is as bad as hophmi

      I think most of the people here are hoping that the bots can discover their inner Mensch before TSHTF

    • W Jones

      I was reading about Oliver Cromwell the other day. A polarizing Sharon type figure who had the King of England executed in 1649 and became the head of state. He was a fundamentalist. Had his own army. The people followed him. Then he died and they dug up his grave and went back to Charles II, the son of the dead king.

      They experimented for a while but went back to their old washing powder because they could. They had a long shared history and strong institutions and there was a king waiting in the wings.
      The monarchy is still doing okay

      Israel has nothing to fall back on. Whenever AIPAc is defanged there will be no Charles to pick them up.

      I bet the Ashkenazim are afraid of the Mizrahim and what might happen if TSHTF.

      It may have been prayed for for so long but they don't have any political experience in the Land over the longue duree.

    • "50 years ago Mainstream American Protestants also had to reconcile the compassionate teachings of their faith with the hateful practices of a government that practiced social discrimination based upon tradition, fear and Protestant ethnic entitlement."

      link to

    • I think the main difference is that the US has the world's reserve currency LOL. But also that US society is not some doped out ideological cult. There are a lot of countercurrents. It's not 1820 in America. America is very messy but there is continuous questioning. You just don't get the slavish doctrinal rigidity they teach in Israel even though the Tea Party would love it.

    • Departure to the US seems to have been a choice available to people with money. The seed population that arrived 1946 -48 from Europe seems to have been made up of displaced persons . And nowhere to go. Europe was full of DP camps. The deal for the jews who made aliyah was a break with the past but a part in a brutal ethnic cleansing. The original sin. Getting the Mizrahim onboard widened the 'family' in case things went bad. It was always high risk. The Mizrahim were relatively 'backward' and easily moulded. Cf Danon. The Russians were very influenced by Chechnya. Cf Lieberman . The intellectual elite had no army power base. The army ended up running the show. There was no resilience when the Sharon virus emerged. The dependence on AIPAC. The pity of it all.

    • They withdrew into militarism. The religious backlash was more of a Mizrahi thing, a response to marginalization.
      Was the IDF fetish inevitable ? I am not sure.
      Is a crash inevitable? Almost certainly.

      It is a very tragic story.

    • Mandela gave Zionism 2 barrels deep in enemy territory

    • Another key aspect of the mess is the complete control of the Israeli right over all Israeli discourse relating to the conflict.

      link to

      "But the Left hesitates, and they drop their voices, because of the domination of the religious Right over political correctness in this semi-theocratic, colonialist democracy. The vote-catching assertion, proclaimed or hinted by spokesmen of the religious-Right, is that Kerry is anti-Semitic (and so is President Obama). The religious-Right in Israel and in the Diaspora has appropriated anti-Semitism for its brainwashing purposes, as it also plays fast and loose with language ("delegitimization") to pursue those purposes. Thus, the religious-Right arbitrarily determines that to boycott West Bank settler companies is tantamount to 'delegitimization' of the existence of the Zionist state and rejection of the Jews' right to nationhood.
      (The essence of this tactic, it should be noted, is classic Netanyahu spin. The prime minister always spreads and widens the import of Israel's critics' rhetoric so as to mobilize as many Israelis and overseas Jews as possible to actively oppose it and so as to shift the focus of the international debate on the Middle East away from Israel's pragmatic need to end the occupation toward the broad, emotional but cloudy issues of national self-determination.)
      But self-gagging, though uncomfortable and energy-sapping, is not the most enfeebling element of the peace camp's conduct. The utter, ultimate weakening is caused by the constant need to hope and pray that Israel's foreign friends will step in and rescue her at last, effectively imposing the peace camp's policy on her, because the peace camp cannot seriously hope to win power in Israel based on that policy. It is that acquiescence, that reliance on others, that despair of domestic voters, which takes all the wind out of a political movement's sails.
      Perhaps, though, things can change now. Having acknowledged the causes of its own painful paralysis, the peace camp would do well to seize upon Secretary Kerry's warnings as the moment when its dream of foreign support begins to come true and when domestic and international public debate can be pushed back into pragmatic parameters. "

      Expecting the international cavalry to ride to the rescue is deluded IMO

    • "Zionism is “a false theology…a doctrine that fosters both political and theological injustice.” "

      It was a very hamfisted response to massive communal trauma. I would say Judaism never dealt with the Shoah. Some of the stuff was just too painful. Arendt wrote about it. Impossible to take in for most people.

      It probably seemed easier at the time to just gloss over it and pretend they could start over and concentrate as if nothing had happened. Just get the iterations going and cross your fingers.

      But it is so hard to escape the past.

      link to

      Sabeel are so impressive .

  • I stayed away from Israel just as I stayed away from Nazi Germany -- Hugh Trevor-Roper
  • The demand for a demilitarized state is telling Palestinians to give away the right to be free
  • Kerry's framework according to Friedman and Indyk (Updated: Abbas Weighs In)
    • "Why then did those who prayed for the return to Jerusalem/Al Quds not pack up and… make aliyah? "

      Because there was a religious prohibition against doing so. Jerusalem is a Judische Schnappsidee. The old rabbis understood that.

    • A bond run where investors dump Israeli government bonds and the finance minister is forced to jack up interest rates would be the icing on the cake

      Yossi Israeli likes his property boom.

    • Looking at your watch a third time
      Waiting in the station for the bots
      Going to a place that's far
      So far away and if that's not enough
      Going where nobody says hello
      They don't talk to anybody they don't know

      You'll wind up in some Maaleh Adumim factory
      That's full-time filth and nowhere left to go
      Walk home to an occupied house
      Sit around outside all by yourself
      I know it might sound strange but I believe
      You'll be coming back before too long

      Don't go back to the process, don't go back to the process
      Don't go back to the process and waste another year

    • AIPAC won't be able to do anything

      "Now they can’t tell me nothing
      We give it to the people,
      Spread it across the country
      Can we go back, this is the moment
      Tonight is the night, we’ll fight 'til it’s over
      So we put our hands up like the ceiling can’t hold us"

    • Netanyahu wants to propose a deal the Palestinians can't accept and blame them for intransigence. Very strategic except the time to string everyone along is gone. Sanctions look inevitable.

    • Did the Jewish a role in how many.people were handed over to the Nazis, Obsidian? Your ratchet was pretty stupid IMO. Do you people ever do accountability?

    • Kerry has to triangulate between the settlers and Galut

      link to
      link to

      Best of luck to him. Dealing with the Tea Party is a picnic by comparison.

    • 80% of settlers and THEIR Land

      How does Kerry define settlers? East Jerusalem or just WB minus al quds ?
      Israel definition or international definition.

      I am guessing that Kerry's "Palestinian capital" will be a Burger King stand rented from Im Tirtzu in Abu Dis. But that even this will be impossible for Netanyahu to sell to his people.

      Indyk says al quds off the table. No deal then.

      Jews DO NOT understand how important al quds is to the Palestinians.

      They can build a wall around it (and they have) and they can deny access for the next 300 years but Al Quds is the heart of Palestine

      Jawaal the Palestinian mobile company had a campaign a few years ago called Al Quds fil baal - Jerusalem in your mind. It was a sticker book aimed at all the Palestinian kids who had never been to the city because Israel won't let them.

      Old fellahi ladies will walk all the way from ar ram in their beautiful Palestinian dresses on Friday just to be in the city.

      -Cheef Haalich
      wayn rayeh ?
      -Al 'uds
      Allah ya'teeki al afya

      Because it is part of who they are and what the Germans did 1939-45 does not change that and never will.

      While Ashkenazi Jews were figuring out the best ways to smoke fish in the forests of northern Europe, Palestinians were minding Jerusalem.

      So Jews prayed about it in the cold north.
      Palestinians fucking LIVED there, took care of it, spent their own money on it, developed the city's culture and made it what it was before the bots turned up and fucked everything up.

      And it's off the table? Fuhgdaboutit.

  • Scarlett Johansson's new image (grossout alert)
    • I was looking at an issue of Cosmopolitan the other day. Loads of advice on sex, clothes, jewellery, money, material goods, holidays, makeup etc. But hanging over it all a great emptiness.

      They'll never introduce the readers to Rumi.

    • You know Kathleen I was thinking about the time I went to Auschwitz. The most striking image was a picture of a row of naked Jewish women being herded to the gas chambers.
      The ultimate in dehumanisation. A row of beautiful women. The nihilism of it all.

      And Scarlett is used (you may say it is her choice but she's still presented as meat) today to dehumanise the Palestinians. It is all so utterly depressing.

    • It's the noor al ain that matters.
      But I guess it's very hard in showbiz to retain any honesty.

    • No class. Khalaas.
      I think it's sad that she can't make her point without degrading herself.
      Or maybe that is the point. The pointlessness.

    • Her top says it all. Suggest a bit of tit and get the dopamine working so everyone will forget about the torture.

      Any chance of a feminist critique of this campaign ?

    • "Sodastream hired her because she is “hot” right now"

      Tits and ass

      Since all moralists and purists support Las Vegas as the entertainment capital of the world, one would assume that the attraction at the Star Dust is The Passion Play or a Monet Exhibit or the New York City Ballet (…). But no; what is the big attraction?
      ‘Tits and ass.’
      Well, that may be the truth but you just can’t have “tits and ass” up on a marquee.
      ‘Why not?’
      Because it’s vulgar, that’s why.
      Soon they will have just a big nipple up on the marquee, and maybe that’s why you want to have FOR ADULTS ONLY, because you’re ashamed to tell your kids that you are selling and exploiting and making an erotic thing out of your mother’s breast that gave you life. The morality clause.
      And I really had wanted that job (…)”

      Tits and ass and oppression.

      "the power of her images helped to seduce a whole generation"

      Leni Riefenstahl would recognize the memes.

    • I am pretty sure we can say what those Notre Dame nuns sitting on that porch back in the day would have made of Scarlett and her straw.

      Where have all the Mensches gone ?

    • Scarlett and her fuck-me straw.
      Bibi and his last straw
      Note that she is not looking at Bibi either. He's too uuurgh

  • The Process
    • In medieval courts the king and ministers often had a jester present. The jester could say whatever he wanted.

      I'd say the guy with the Moleskine diary is a Palestinian jester. The others are the fools.

  • Netanyahu and ministers lash out at 'insufferable' Kerry for mentioning 'boycotts'
    • The system is evil. It costs far less to sell Israeli products in Ramallh than products from Jenin. Palestinians can't export stuff via the Med ports unless they go in Jewish trucks. Everything that comes in comes in in Jewish trucks.

      Israel has destroyed the Palestinian economy. Palestinian consumers have no choice. Shir Hever is the man for this topic.

    • Barry Rubin, water carrier for Netanyahu and the other right wing fruitcakes , has died.

      link to

      Buy one of his books before the whole kit and YESHA caboodle disappears.
      Buy Caroline Glick books. Even if you are not interested yourself you may have a grandchild with a passion for system failures and intellectual dead ends and how people lie to each other when money is king.

    • I think it could go wrong if history hasn't ended .

    • Bots taking about immorality and injustice.
      The mind boggles.

    • "The odds against any agreement between the Palestinians as led by Abbas and the Israelis as led by Netanyahu are still quite long. "

      This is because the bots think they have won. They are Jews, they are so smart, they have the Yanks around their little finger, they have AIPAC (70 signatures in 24 hours) and if anyone DARES to question them they get the Finkelstein treatment.

      What could possibly go wrong?

    • Yes, I noted that.

      I think we are deep into Wizard of Oz territory.

    • Yeah Shingo. How remiss of me. Palau can make the tea as he runs out of bullets.

    • Danon knows nothing about power. He thinks all you have to do is say "I'm Jewish" and you'll get everything you want.
      These Likud blowhards never lost anything. They never learnt anything.
      Men a lot more powerful than them had to learn about the limitations of military power the hard way.

    • Danon called Kerry’s words an “ultimatum”, and said that true friends do not set ultimatums”

      True friends aren't needy like Israel. They don't need to say "tell me you love me" 24/7

      link to

      "The US hit back at Binyamin Netanyahu on Sunday after the Israeli prime minister warned that calls for boycotts of Israel to pressure it over settlements in the occupied Palestinian territories are "immoral and unjustified" and would not achieve their goal.
      In a public spat that reflected tensions over slow-moving Israeli-Palestinian peace talks, the state department rebuked Netanyahu for apparently misrepresenting the words of the US secretary of state, John Kerry. Another senior rightwing minister accused Kerry of serving as a "mouthpiece" for antisemitic views."

      They have destroyed the power of the anti-Semitic accusation. It's a pity because they'll need it for the future.

    • We should remember the many Israeli Jews who tried to change things, (not unlike Germans such as Sophie Scholl) and were persecuted by the bots for their courage

      link to

      "New Profile members are working very hard both as a movement and as individuals, to resist the intentionally exhausting and dispiriting effects of waiting out the course of this laborious bureaucratic legal process. Just one of our means for doing this has been the unorthodox move of taking a series of close, candid, intimate looks back at the investigators and their practices. (For our series "Investigating the Investigation", authored by various New Profile activists, see: link to

      New Profile's criminalization and our attempted shut-down are directed, in particular, at intimidating the huge numbers of young people who fail to comply with conscription law today. The drive against us targets this popular display of mistrust and indifference, this major threat to politicians' fear-based hold on voting constituencies and to military commanders' uncontested control of "national security" issues."

    • "Economics Minister Naftali Bennett, from the religious, pro-settler Jewish Home party, said all “the advice givers” should know that Israel will not abandon its land because of economic threats.“We expect our friends around the world to stand beside us, against anti-Semitic boycott efforts targeting Israel, and not for them to be their amplifier,” said Bennett, a fierce critic of the Kerry-led talks. “Only security will bring economic stability, he said."

      They had a choice. Security or justice. And they made the wrong choice.
      Bennett will be there in the trenches as they run out of bullets. I hope Micronesia and the Marshall islands stay to comfort him.

    • "PM #Netanyahu: "Attempts to impose a boycott on the State of #Israel are immoral and unjust. Moreover, they will not achieve their goal."

      It really feels like January 1945 in the Berlin bunker

  • Do SodaStream's workers have the right to vote? Roger Waters asks Scarlett Johansson
    • Do they have access to the roads?
      Mostly yes. However, there are roads that for security reasosn are Israeli only.
      Note he doesn't say Jewish. Why would roads be for Jews only outside Israel? Are there any Jew only roads where you are, Cliff ?

      Can they travel to their work place without waiting for hours to pass through the occupying forces control barriers?
      Probably yes. Is there some eveidence that every Palestinian Sodastream worker waits for hours every day at roadblocks? I doubt it.

      Classic hasbara. Why are there roadblocks is of course the question.
      Any roadblocks where you are Cliff ?

      Do they have citizenship?
      Palestinian citizenship? Who knows? Ask the Palestinians.

      Israel knows. Palestine does not exist so they don't have citizenship/
      the question is of course why they don't have Israeli citizenship.

      Do they have the right not to have the standard issue kicking in their door in the middle of the night and taking their children away?
      Has this actually happened to any Sodastream worker? Or is this just more hyperbole?
      another classic. Mondonut won't admit that this is default practice so he just throws out another rhetorical dead end

      Do they have the right to appeal against arbitrary and indefinite imprisonment?
      Typically yes.


      Do they have the right to re-occupy the property and homes they owned before 1948?
      I doubt any Sodastream worker owned property anywhere in 1948..
      Double standards

      Hasbaradim are insufferable hypocrites

    • The Serbs have given up on Kosovo, sibiriak.
      They were forced to by the international community.

      Give me a better example

    • “Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.”

      surely this plus religion is tops

    • It's so interesting when they wheel out the big hitters of Zionism- Netanyahu, Lieberman , Danon and they just repeat the same garbage that we have destroyed here. They have no fresh material.

      BDS is so insidious. It weaves rings around them.

    • "Do I have the right to live in my ancient homeland" is such a crock of shit.
      Do the Palestinians have the right to live in the homeland they had until 1948 ?

      My ancient homeland
      My little pony

      How come nobody else talks about their ancient homeland WTF?

    • What a Mensch.
      Defined by my Yiddish dictionary as human being, decent , respectable person
      What does that mean a Zionist is ?

  • New York Assembly pressured to reject bill targeting Israel boycotters
    • I was thinking the same thing, Philip. It's not the right fit but there was a book and an icon. It's all about changing the memes.
      Obama is no Lincoln BTW.

    • Ultimately it's about funneling economic value generated to the Jews who live in the space.

      Israelis buy into the system via their housing loans and salaries which are sponsored by the fruits of exploitation and easy access to Euro markets
      AND because they have zero accountability to all the liabilities they have built up which are valued at zero (by them).

      BDS is about market value of the liabilities- cutting off the cashflows that bind Israeli Jews to this brutal system.

      I think it is like Northern Ireland- justice would require that the Untermenschen get access to the cash....

      Jews naturally love the status quo ...

    • New York assembly pressured. As expected.
      But the US was way behind on slavery as well back in the day, you know.

      The sacred US Constitution, the most perfect document in the history of humanity (copyright A. Scalia) was useless. And the arguments for slavery were so sophisticated .
      Lincoln needed an awful lot of triangulation to get people around to his way of thinking and it still needed a war....

      Slavery/YESHA was/is fundamentally an economic issue - white/Jewish people run an economy based on oppression producing cotton/security paraphernalia that would be impossible without a captive population of slaves/Palestinians .

      Maybe Max Blumenthal is the Harriet Beecher Stowe figure. .
      Finkelstein may be a metaphorical John Brown.

  • The real SodaStream commercial they don't want you to see
    • Shmuel

      Most of the "unthinkable" stuff comes from Israelis who think the narrative is still under Zionist control.

      If liability comes into the equation the Palestinians will get far more than that Soda stream factory.

      Jon's point could be extended to "peace is not fair to the Palestinians since all the collaborators we employ would lose their jobs and this would hurt their families. Israel is very aware of its responsibilities to these children. It shows how moral we are. "

    • How much did Sodastream pay for the site, I wonder.
      How much does it pay for water ?

      Big swinging mickey about the rest.

    • "Boycott aims to do more good than harm, but the harm it may cause Palestinians should not be taken lightly. "

      That is straight outta Virginia 1863

      Surely if the Palestinians were returned the 40% of the West Bank that the Jewish settlers "own" they wouldn't need to work for sodastream or as builders in Maaleh Adumim.
      Slavery and YESHA are the same- deluded political economy

    • "The issue of the Palestinian employees who would lose their jobs, hundreds of families who would lose their livelihood, if Sodastream pulls out of the WB -is not something that can just be ignored. "

      A drop in the ocean compared to the billions Israel owes the Palestinians.
      Could you live on what would be left if your salary was taxed at 600% ?

    • Katy is very, very good.
      What will Katy do next? Such a target rich environment.

  • 'FT' blast on settlements will strike fear at Hasbara Central (if not among liberal Zionists and 'glitzy blondes')
    • "I’m wondering what rabbit they will pull out of the hat when that time comes."

      Anti-Semitism, I bet
      and nobody will buy it.

      Is the Emperor's new clothes a Jewish story?
      Ya haram.

    • "BTW his wall singer Cyndi Lauper had a great concert in Tel Aviv…………."

      Wow Yrn.Cyndi Lauper is real cutting edge.
      She redefined rap, didn't she?
      She took Dre to a totally different level and then went one further herself.
      Or am I confusing her with Bonnie Tyler ?

    • Ordinary Brits are very decent.
      They'd never run Zionism 4.0.

    • Sibiriak

      "At a time when crucial decisions had to be taken decisions which affected the future of the entire population of Palestine, those Palestinians were unrepresented in London while the Zionist spokesmen were strongly entrenched in the corridors of power and made astute use of their influence.

      The first drafts of the Balfour declaration were actually written by Zionists on Balfour's behalf
      The Foreign Secretary minuted

      "I have asked Lord Rothschild and Weizmann to submit a formula"So great was the influence of the Jewish community in Whitehall that the committee paid more attention to expressions of opposition to Zionism when they came from Jews rather than Arabs"

      Publish it not, Mayhew and Adams pages 30-31

      It was a stitch up

      Same as the crap in the NY congress today. Money and money only.

    • "the Balfour Declaration recognized “the Jewish people” as a separate people, not territorially bounded, that had a right to a “national home” in Palestine . "

      The bots bought Balfour just like they buy congress. Palestine is a human issue more than a law issue. The law can always be changed.
      It would be better if we didn't have to bring Israel to full sanctions but dynamics are funny things.

    • Who did Sharon line up to tell the Arabs that Jerusalem is lost forever ?
      Rudy Giuliani ?

      This is epic stuff. What is happening now will be written about for the next 500 years.

      If I were Hindu I would say that Sharon was the reincarnation of Oliver Cromwell.

      link to
      “i need pity. I know what i feel. Great place and business in the world is not worth looking after.”
      On himself, letter to Richard Mayor, July 1650.

      “cruel necessity”.
      Cromwell on the execution of King Charles I. Jan 1649.
      Oxford dictionary of quotations.

      “this is a righteous judgement of god upon these
      barbarous wretches, who have imbrued their hands in so much innocent blood....”
      Oliver Cromwell after the storming of Drogheda.1649.

      “no one rises so high as he who knows not whither he is going.”
      Cromwell on personal fortunes.

      “god has brought us where we are, to consider the work we may do in the world, as well as at home.”
      Cromwell to the army council. 1654.

      “you have accounted yourselves happy on being environed with a great ditch from all the world beside.”
      In a letter, 1658.

      “not what they want but what is good for them.”
      Remark by Oliver Cromwell.

      “my design is to make what haste i can to be gone.”
      Cromwell’s last words; in Cromwell, by John Morely.

      link to

      * “And as he went on, though he yet resolved not what form the New Commonwealth should be moulded into, yet he thought it but reasonable, that he should be the chief person who had been the chief person in the Deliverance.”

      * “When he quitted the Parliament, his chief dependence was on the Army, which he endevoured by all means to keep in unity, and if he could not bring it to his sense, he, rather than suffer any division in it, went-over himself and carried his friends with him into that way which the army did choose, and that faster than any other person in it.”
      Sir John Berkley, Memoirs of Sir John Berkley.
      The Dictionary of Biographical Quotations.

      * “.. A devotee of law, he was forced to be often lawless; a civilian to the core, he had to maintain himself by the sword; with a passion to construct, his task was chiefly to destroy; the most scrupulous of men, he had to ride roughshod over his own scruples and those of others; the tenderest, he had continually to harden his heart; the most English of our greater figures, he spent his life in opposition to the majority of Englishmen; a realist, he was condemned to build that which could not last.”
      John Buchan, Oliver Cromwell.
      The Dictionary of Biographical Quotations.

      * “Saw the superb funeral of the Protector:...but it was the joyfullest funeral that I ever saw, for there were none that cried, but dogs, which the souldiers hooted away with a barbarous noise; drinking and taking tobacco in the streets as they went.”
      John Evelyn, Diary. 22 November 1658.
      The Dictionary of Biographical Quotations.

      * “This day (to the stupendous and inscrutableJudgements of God) were the Carcasses of that arch-rebell Cromwell and Bradshaw the judge who condemned his Majestie & Ireton, son-in-law to the Usurper, dragged outof their superbe tombs (in Westminster among the Kings), to Tyburn & hanged on the Gallows there from 9 in the morning til 6 at night, and then buried under that fatal and ignominious monument, in a deepe pitt: Thousands of people who (who had seen them in all their pride and pompous insults) being spectators: look back at November 22, 1658, & be astonish’d - And fear God & honour the King, but meddle not with those who are given to change.”
      John Evelyn, Diary,30 January 1661.
      The Dictionary of Biographical Quotations.

    • Kerry has the same challenge as Beinart - try to come up with something rational that isn't oppressive and qualifies as Jewish and is acceptable to Joe Goy . Yossi Israeli is going to have to swallow regardless.
      It's about coming to some sort of sustainable equilibrium, right ? And this is some sort of Zionist master plan? I think they gave up knowing what they were doing a long time ago.


      link to

      "But the real point is that the acquiring of Jewish influence is not a misfortune; it is a blessing and a cause for celebration. I applaud the fact that AIPAC—and a whole range of Jewish organizations—are respected political players on the Washington scene and that Jewish concerns—including, first and foremost, the welfare of Israel - are advanced by these groups. And while AIPAC has won the backing of many Americans, American Jews are instrumental in leading it, supporting it, and extending its influence. Again, this is a source of pride; let’s not suggest otherwise. "

      link to
      "For certain Israeli and American Jews, Israel has always been the strongbox of Jewishness, the place where the most vivid, authentic strain of its modern existence has been unfolding for the last sixty-five years, and there has been a constant stream of American Jews passing through Ben Gurion Airport on their way to imbibe this heady brew from the source."

      Shavit: Gideon, You want a secular, democratic state. You’re worse than the extremists among the Palestinians.
      Levy: Terrific. OK. Perfect. Anti-Semite.
      Shavit: And this is a kind of anti-Semitism, an unwillingness to recognize the right of the Jewish people to self-determination.
      Levy: [Just] say Nazi.
      Shavit: No, this is an extreme anti-Israeli approach that you spread like poison around the world. And then you call it demagoguery. This is demagoguery of the worst kind, your demagoguery.
      Levy: I’m a little tired of Ari Shavit. Who tries to have it all. It is … I want to refresh people’s memory, once and for all. We came to a country inhabited by another people.
      Margalit: Oh, delegitimizing of Israel. We understand.
      Shavit: Then let’s leave. That’s why you’re not worried about Iran, because you agree with Ahmedinejad. You think we should go back to Austria. That’s what you’re saying.
      Levy: [Just say] Adolf Hitler.

      link to

      "Terrorism has altered the landscape in many areas, including the rules of war and engagement, law, investigative and interrogation techniques, and the detention of enemy combatants. Journalism is no exception"



      link to

      "How will the Jews of the world react once it becomes clear to them beyond any shadow of a doubt that Israel is on a collision course with their very existential interests? The various expressions of fanaticism in Israel, such as the exclusion of women in the military and, in a short while, in institutions of higher learning; the denial of equal rights to its non-Jewish citizens and the division of the population according to ethnic origin can all ultimately be considered as subversive actions undermining the status of Diaspora Jews in their various countries of residence."

      link to

      “We, the Palestinians, are the protectors of the Jews. Peace with us will guarantee your existence here. Today, the Arabs are asleep, regarding the situation and this conflict. Once they awaken, only respecting the religious sensitivities of a billions Muslims, restoring our rights and coexistence with us will protect you.”

      link to

      “I am not a religious Jew, my family were not religious Jews. But I feel that I am a representation of the Jewish spirit, whatever that might be. To me, it is honesty, rectitude, intellectual achievement

      And Israel has 6 weeks to sort all of this out? And this was planned ?

      link to

    • I wonder how Hasbara Central will respond

      Maybe "The FT hates Jews. The Capitalist elite hates Jews"
      Wouldn't it be hilarious to see Mark Regev go after Goldman Sachs?

    • There is something in the Briggs Myers ranking about S types not being able to join the dots. It would go with being a sadist too. As long as there are no consequences you keep on doing it.

      It is so interesting that all of this is happening during the month following the death of Sharon , the wizard sadist.

    • Yeah. How would you unfuck Israel, Sumud?

    • You have to go back to Danon to see where the FT is coming from

      link to

      FT editorial
      link to

      The status of the settlements is clear in international law even if Israel chooses to ignore this and expand its colonisation of Palestinian land, while ostensibly negotiating on the creation of a Palestinian state. Last year the EU adopted rules prohibiting grants to entities operating in illegal settlements. Yet the EU still let Israel into Horizon 2020 – the only non-member state in this €80bn research and development programme – making Israeli tech high flyers eligible for European public money provided it is not spent in the settlements.

      That is not a boycott. It is the application of the law. Yet if Israel maintains its occupation, and spurns the peace terms being negotiated by US secretary of state John Kerry, such distinctions will erode. European pension funds are already starting to pull their investments in Israeli banks with branches in the settlements.

      Israeli leaders, from former prime ministers Ehud Barak and Ehud Olmert to Tzipi Livni and Yair Lapid, justice and finance ministers in the present rightwing government of Benjamin Netanyahu, have warned that Israel faces ostracism unless it makes a deal on Palestine. Now it is the settlements that are being targeted. But that could easily morph into a general boycott.

      It is disingenuous to romanticise settlement enterprises. The occupation imprisons thousands of the Palestinians’ young men, gives their land and water to settlers, demolishes their houses and partitions the remaining territory with scores of checkpoints and segregated roads. There are almost no basic foundations for an economy. The way to create Palestinian jobs is to end the occupation and let Palestinians build those foundations – not to build “bridges to peace” on other people’s land without their permission.


      "The Johansson-SodaStream controversy is significant because it highlights the fact that the movement to impose economic sanctions on the Israeli state is gradually gathering momentum. The specific disagreement between the actress and Oxfam was about a Sodastream factory that is based in an Israeli settlement on the West Bank. A sanctions movement targeted at businesses with links to the West Bank would be quite threatening in itself since, for example, all the major Israeli banks have branches in the occupied territories. But the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions movement (BDS) has an animus against Israel that goes well beyond the question of settlements in the occupied territories. For example, one of the three main objections to Israel that BDS cites on its website is the denial of the right of return to all Palestinian refugees, displaced in 1948.

      The Johansson affair is a boost for the sanctions drive simply because it is great publicity for a movement that has been struggling to make headlines. It may also be significant that it involves a charity that has its roots in Britain – since the BDS movement is particularly strong here.

      However, the sanctions problem – while threatening to Israel in the long-term – may soon be put into the shade by the dilemma that will be presented by the unveiling of a Kerry plan for a two-state solution. Whatever his private feelings, Benjamin Netanyahu (the Israeli prime minister, in case you forgot) will probably feel compelled to back the Kerry plan – at least, in general. But many of his own Likud party are openly opposed to a two-state solution. If Likud splits and other pro-settler parties leave the governing coalition, the Israeli government would surely collapse.

      And if, despite all that, the peace process struggled onward, the Israelis would be faced with the situation they most dread – a full-on confrontation with the settler movement, as well as the final abandonment of the day-dream of incorporation of the West Bank into Israel proper. Perhaps I lack imagination or am being unfair, but I cannot see any Israeli government being willing to go down that road. However, if the two-state solution is unambiguously rejected by Israel, we will be in a new diplomatic world. Then you really would see a sanctions movement."

    • "a breath of fresh air from the suffocated and cramped liberal Zionist propaganda you get in the NYT"

      Or the New York Review ...
      Americans are not getting the info.
      It's the gorilla in the room.
      And the Brits have basically abandoned hasbara. Because it is just not cricket. I wonder what Regev thinks.

      link to

      This didn't happen overnight. The bots undermined their own diplomatic flexibility over decades .

      And the systematic dehumanization of Gaza is right at the centre of the whole clusterfuck.

    • Philip

      Under the MBTI system it would be S for the Zios and N for us

      link to

    • The FT is the go-to paper for corporate f*ckups .
      They are relentlessly consistent. Man up, fess up, tell how much it is going to cost, do not procrastinate, face the music, tell them what you are going to do differently., draw a line under it and move on.

      They do it week in, week out- for JP Morgan, BP, Nokia - doesn't matter who.
      Accountability is at the heart of business.

      Israel is in deep doo doo.
      This ed and Gideon Rachman during the week.
      You don't want to lose your business elite.

  • AP asks State: Why shouldn't folks boycott Israel when your own settlements policy is ineffective?
    • Is that a Murdoch channel? Sounds like it.
      It looks like a Tom Tomorrow cartoon as well.
      So the big deal is "an Israeli company employing Palestinians".

  • Fearless authors dance on third rail of US politics...
    • "but the ratcheting up of the screws is designed to bring the right-wing settlers and a majority of Israelis on board"

      They put those people in Hebron. They can't turn around now and say it was all a joke.

      (BTW don't look for this video on youtube by typing "sharmouta". You need to search "Hebron sharmouta" LOL).

      Around 20-25% of IDF officers are settlers.
      It is going to be total car crash.
      And they try to put the Palestinians under time pressure.
      You couldn't make it up

      Bibi is not into psy ops unless he is actually Kastner 2.0 . His spiel is unchanged since that speech when he was 28.
      Trust me, Yossi Israeli. I know how to deal with the Aravim. I will make Israel rich and I'll sweep the Untermenschen under the carpet. I know how to deal with the Americans.
      link to
      Thatcher had left the stage before her model crashed and burned. Bibi has the pleasure of being there to see it live up close and deeply personal.

      YESHA was not designed to be reversed. God . Jewish destiny. Eternity
      link to

      It's like one of those modern pieces of tech equipment that can't be repaired. It is going to have to be thrown out.
      And how do they do that ? And have they ever discussed this at Herzliya ?

    • I wonder which of them will be the first to break ranks and join the rational side

  • Kerry’s billions: US economic plans for Palestine place investment over freedom
    • I read this in 2009 but I can't find it online. Maybe it was here.
      Anyway it's very interesting.

      "Zionists tend to get very scared when concrete plans are on the table (see, the Arab Initiative 2002-present). Most simply do not trust Arabs. When I ask them what their endgame is, they have none. I liken it to the dilemma of the slaveholder: “We know we need to free the slaves but if we do, what if they kill us?” This is tactically unsustainable and morally grotesque.
      That said, we have a right as Americans to propose the kind of country we wish Israel to be. If we end our billions of dollars of aid and cease giving them diplomatic cover in the UN, we lose many of our rights to dictate a solution – not our responsibility as humans to fight for justice, but some of our rights as Americans. (We as Jews must also work to not allow Israel to speak for the “world’s Jews” but that is a different issue.)"

      I bet they are really scared that Kerry's crumbs are not accepted. They ran the show for so long.
      All that abuse at the airport is only credible if the Untermenschen have no access to other people who do not buy the memes.
      I think they know that now.

      I haven't been to Ben Gurion since 04 but I were going now I'd just pepper them with questions. Where are you from, what schooling did you have, do you know anything about your grandparents' culture, have you ever been to a neighbouring country, what did you think of Sharon, what do you think of Galut, how do you raise your kids, do you buy the memes, why , do you ever think about what it all means

    • Walid

      Are you still uber sceptical now the FT has shown its hand ?

    • Bintbiba

      Kaman ishi
      link to

      It's like a musical version of "Allah ya'teek al afya"

    • Derek Bell- Carolan's receipt
      A stonker from 1975

    • Did you see that live? It looks fantastic.

    • Mahanes,,
      Your question about why the Palestinians have no industry was an exercise in cynicism. Jews run the system over there and thevsystem is sick. Shir Hever wrote the book. It is very depressing to see what was done in the name of the Jewish state.I honestly do not know how Judaism can extricate itself from the mess.

    • Because you owe them at least $50bn you cheapskate.

    • Sodastream is like an antebellum slave industry. Massah is so kind to his.people and they love him because they are useless economically and have nowhere else to go. And they get whupped by the jews if they get uppity. But they are very placid when Massah is around. I really can't believe it is 2014 and this org will be on a superbowl ad. It is as if the British East Indies company is back.

    • si bheag si mhor

      Is about big fairies and small fairies having an argument , I think

      link to

      link to

      here is the translation of the gaelic version:

      "Oh, great strife came between the kings
      Feuds grew between their Hills
      Because Big Hill folk spoke too well of themselves
      While small hill burned beneath them
      "You can never share rights to our noble lake
      Go into ranks by tribe or town.
      Carry your blemish away from us
      Be happy to keep your hands and feet

      "You cannot always win every fight
      On lake, on land, when we contend
      It would be good if you made peace
      Instead of ordering wars in here
      Time to gather the hosts,
      make a striking force
      From throughout the plains
      they come marching here
      It will never seem right to die for hills
      Beheaded in that slaughter

      THis is why battle pains our hearts:
      With Hill princes on every side,
      And Tuatha De Dannan come in a swarm,
      The slaughter is not surprising
      Then it is that the Hill kings lost
      The thousand killed on every side
      There was no dwelling lnot destoyed
      In all the killing that day

      "Parley, parley, oh friends and kin!
      Our enemy from Cairn Clann Aoidh,
      Comes from Eachlainn Peak, up our dead troops"
      Now everyone fights together

      Now none ever will say twice,
      "War isn't caused by too much pride"
      Peace is as good as wars were bad
      The towns in both lands are rebuilding
      Envy first, then an eager host,
      Then thousand prisoners in the grave...
      Better eat words almost forever
      Than have angry brothers on their biers"

      Iran and the USA - it never changes, does it?

    • Just

      We had our Ariel Sharon in Ireland 350 years ago. His name was Oliver Cromwell. He was a complete sociopath.
      link to
      link to

      He destroyed Irish society.
      But he couldn't touch the music.

      And the music is there today and it is more expressive around this sort of thing than anything Beyoncé can manage.
      And if we could do it the Palestinians can do it.

      Martin Hayes is one of the best.
      I think he has a very good philosophy - starts at around 4 minutes

      We are working together, taking the memes, stretching them
      link to

      " We are just part of that"

    • You know Binti once I was in a sherut in Lod airport waiting to go to al Quds thinking of how not so long ago the whole parking lot had been fil reef, run by a fellahi family. And the bots came and poured concrete everywhere and it looked so solid and finalized. But they never dealt with the human consequences of what they did .

      I decided to get the biggest f8ck-off book about Israel that I could because I figured it was all going to collapse some day precisely because of this human factor.

      This is the best I could manage

      link to

      I also have a collection of NYT Israel front covers 1948-2010

      For posterity. To go with the books on Prussia.

    • This is about rugby but it is also about Mondo. Everything is connected. Everyone is connected.

      link to

      "We need all the good things we did against New Zealand in terms of our accuracy and detail, but that doggedness that was there in 2009 needs to be there as well."

      (2009 was the year Ireland won the 6 nations Grand Slam, beating everyone else, for the first time since 1948

      link to

      Here's an American way of saying it

      "From the I-95 to the Autobahn
      I dig grooves and rhyme tracks like the art of form
      The rain might stop but that don't mean the water's gone
      It's kind of deep huh? well this is that sort of song
      The kind of shit that will make your whole life montage
      To recognize you ain't that small or that large
      To make you understate, humble, yet headstrong
      Enough to tell a motherfucker when he's dead wrong"

      link to

    • I think it's more than a teachable moment. It is the moment BDS was waiting for. Like when Tyson in the Catskills realised he could channel his potential effectively and change his fate.

    • Ask shir hever. The system is designed to pauperise the goys in eretz israel so they can't build scale business. Palestinians have the smarts. They can do it in Chile, in the UK, In the Gulf but they are not allowed to under Disneyland rules. Potatoes must come via mahane yehuda market in a jewish truck. The system is sick. The mitzvot are a total joke without Hillel treat the stranger as you would wish to be treated.

    • The bots owe the Palestininians USD50 bn minimum Walid. The liability is way bigger than zionism's free cash.
      This why the bots need peace more than the sha'ab do. But they are too stupid and too greedy.

      BTW I bet kerry's 4bn will come entirely from Galut. Zionism doesn't do accountability. When TSHTF this will be ahum al shay bil hikaya. Ben Gurion never understood the importance of doing business honestly. He was never an olive farmer LOL.

  • American Jewish leader calls Iranians manipulative 'bazaaris'
    • The bazaaris were the ones who swung Khomeini's revolution as well.
      Money is money.

    • Adele
      It is pretty clear from the book that his mother would never have voted for Sharon. She had a big influence on him. His father was an asshole.

  • SodaStream flap educates Americans about the illegal settlement project
    • No sitting on the fence for the FT

      Israel is losing the goy elite. No more procrastination.

      link to

      A star stumbles in the settlements

      Scarlett Johansson’s defence of her sponsor is naive

      "The decision by actress Scarlett Johansson to stop being an ambassador for Oxfam, the social justice charity, and continue as brand ambassador to SodaStream, an Israeli company that makes home-carbonated drink dispensers at a plant in the occupied West Bank, might be dismissed as a storm in a fizzy cup. It should not be.

      The Lost in Translation star has accidentally turned a searchlight on an important issue – whether it is right or lawful to do business with companies that operate in illegal Israeli settlements on Palestinian land – as well as inadvertently sprinkling stardust on the campaign to boycott Israel until it withdraws from the occupied West Bank and Arab East Jerusalem – a separate issue, at least so far.

      SodaStream makes some dispensers in Maale Adumim, the biggest of Israel’s West Bank settlements, illegal under international law. It employs about 500 Palestinians and claims to promote jobs and peaceful coexistence between Arabs and Jews. Ms Johansson says the company is “building a bridge to peace between Israel and Palestine”. That is naive, as is her conflation of this controversy with the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions movement advocating the isolation of Israel.

      The status of the settlements is clear in international law even if Israel chooses to ignore this and expand its colonisation of Palestinian land, while ostensibly negotiating on the creation of a Palestinian state. Last year the EU adopted rules prohibiting grants to entities operating in illegal settlements. Yet the EU still let Israel into Horizon 2020 – the only non-member state in this €80bn research and development programme – making Israeli tech high flyers eligible for European public money provided it is not spent in the settlements.

      That is not a boycott. It is the application of the law. Yet if Israel maintains its occupation, and spurns the peace terms being negotiated by US secretary of state John Kerry, such distinctions will erode. European pension funds are already starting to pull their investments in Israeli banks with branches in the settlements.

      Israeli leaders, from former prime ministers Ehud Barak and Ehud Olmert to Tzipi Livni and Yair Lapid, justice and finance ministers in the present rightwing government of Benjamin Netanyahu, have warned that Israel faces ostracism unless it makes a deal on Palestine. Now it is the settlements that are being targeted. But that could easily morph into a general boycott.

      It is disingenuous to romanticise settlement enterprises. The occupation imprisons thousands of the Palestinians’ young men, gives their land and water to settlers, demolishes their houses and partitions the remaining territory with scores of checkpoints and segregated roads. There are almost no basic foundations for an economy. The way to create Palestinian jobs is to end the occupation and let Palestinians build those foundations – not to build “bridges to peace” on other people’s land without their permission."

  • 'Without doubt, the biggest loser in this well publicized BDS campaign was SodaStream': Reactions to Johansson leaving Oxfam

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