Commenter Profile

Total number of comments: 15115 (since 2009-07-30 21:28:30)

Shingo

Showing comments 15115 - 15101
Page:

  • You'd think Wasserman Schultz would lose DNC job for bucking Obama on Iran Deal
    • (1) The average Joe Jew doesn’t read

      Irrelevant. They still support the deal

      2) If the average Jew read mondoweiss they would immediately donate a ton of money to JNF and Stand With Us.

      That would mean at least most of MWs Jewish readers would befobatibgmoney to those groups. I doubt even you or Hophmi donate to them.

      3) Although you think young American Jews don’t love Israel you are wrong. Ever go to a Chicago Israel Solidarity event?

      There are bound to be a few flat earth era in the Jewish community who haven't woken up yet. They will.

      (4) I will bet Jan Schakowsky loses her seat for going against the deal

      Hope so.

  • Videos: Brave Tamimi women of Nabi Saleh take down Israeli soldier assaulting injured child
    • Thanks ABC.

      The bots clearly have no idea how these comments say more about them and their ideology than they do Palestinians.

      They love their motorized goal posts. The fact the event was photographed and video taped means it was stages. If there had been no one taking pictures, they would have denied it happened.

    • I fail to see how the video can be spun as a hoax. Are they suggesting the IDF thug was not really and Israeli?

    • It's always a good idea to wait until you a sober before posting a comment Ivri, unless you want to continue to be regarded as an infantile half wit

    • Yes, it's interesting how vulnerable these cowards suddenly become when they are unmasked. I don't know how these women or onlooker refrained from grabbing a rock and smashing his face with it.

  • God is on Israel's side, but not the United States, says Israel's new U.N. ambassador
    • . If LBJ had committed the US to running the blockade of the Straits of Tiran that war could have been avoided

      Yeah right. That would explain the attack on the USS Liberty.

  • In latest thrust at Obama, Netanyahu names UN ambassador who trashed him and said Palestinians can have 'Facebook state'
    • She would have had both Obama and Emanuel crying for their mommies.

      Oh please. Glick sounds like she's perennially on the verge of a mental breakdown every time she's challenged with the most passive of arguments.

      Glick is a lunatic who looks tough because she makes sure to make appearances in very friendly echo chambers and a handful of soft targets. Put her on stage alongside Max Blumenthal and she would turn into Linda Blair from the Exorcist and have to be carried off stage in a straight jacket into a waiting van.

      She's a one trick pony who obsesses about Christians holding a grudge against the Jews for killing Jesus.

  • Shocker: 'NYT' runs front page press release for AIPAC warning Obama to cool his jets
    • A fascinating article also from the NYT today that shows that AIPAC are feeling the heat after Obama went after them in his recent speech.

      Fears of Lasting Rift as Obama Battles Pro-Israel Group on Iran

      link to nytimes.com

      The account given is pretty eye opening. Obama didn't pull any punches and AIPAC look like they are pulling their heads in and resorting to damage control.

      Another article also shows that at least 29 leading scientists have come out strongly in favor of the deal, which is a big boost and this will debunk all those false claims about how the deal will allow Iran to build nukes under the deal.
      link to nytimes.com

      The great thing about all this is that Obama is not backing down and taking the lobby on directly. This is going to damage the lobby more than Obama and they appear to realize it.

  • It's time for American Jews to recognize they have been duped
    • Double Standards believes the wife of an abusive husband who is sexually violating the children, is obliged to stay in the relationship and keep her mouth shut.

  • 'If we don't take out Iran,' it will reenact the Holocaust in US and Israel -- Steven Emerson to Times Square rally
    • it’s not much of an argument to say that the American people don’t share his view.

      We'll remind you if that the next time you Hasvarats cute polls showing Anerican support for Israel.

  • Not everyone is allowed to have a 'Good Life in Germany'
    • Merkel said half the hard truth.

      The bit she left out is that if that girl was Jewish, Germany would have offered her permanent residency.

  • Angela Merkel makes a 14-year old Palestinian girl cry by telling her she is not welcome in Germany
    • Merkel: now if you were Jewish, then we would be rolling out the red carpet, big you are not worthy.

  • Israel detains and deports American Jews because they are Black
  • Time for a Jewish reformation?
    • An outstanding and concise essay.

      It's amazing how Jews like this writer and Judt are so erudite and devastating in their arguments against Zionism.

  • Michael Oren misrepresents 1971 synagogue bombing that changed his life
    • Great response Kris.

      Grover is a pathetic bottom feeder.

    • Page: 151
    • And most Americans fall for it.

      Americans who by and large don't even own a passport.

    • Oren’s trauma was real and is real and is evident in his belief system. “Trauma is never invented.”

      That's debatable. Trauma can be passed on or through indoctrination. This was vividly illustrated in the documentary, "Defamation", in which a group of Israeli Jewish girls (who'd never set foot outside Israel), were so indoctrinated to believe that the world outside of Israel is wall to wall anti Semites that when they came across a couple of old men in Poland who said something innocuous to them in Polish, they were convinced the men had called them Jewish pigs.

    • Yes Giles,

      Given the volume of lies and distortions from Oren, I am beginning to doubt the veracity of any of Oren's accounts during his youth.

      Growing up, all I recall was that being Jewish was no different to being catholic or prodestant. They were all religions and nothing more. I suspect that is true of many youths who are bullies and who are too young to even understand what Jew hatred means.

      I was bullied and picked on when we moved to Australia because I was a foreigner with a dark complection and because I was a small skinny kid who was an easy target in a rough neighborhood populated largely by Anglo Saxon immigrants.

      I barely remember those experiences because I got over it and because my parents helped me understand that there are good and bad people out there. That's not to say that anti Semitic was not alive and well, but I suspect that when you are brought up to believe that everything bad that happens to you is because you are Jewish, I can distort your perception about the world.

      I wonder if Oren also believes the trope that anti Semitism is passed on by mothers milk.

  • Iran's kumbaya video: let's cut the deal and turn to 'existential battle' against extremists
    • A great speech by Zariff. He makes the Americans and Israelis look like rank and deranged amateurs.

  • In effort to thwart BDS, some Israel supporters urge partial settlement freeze
  • In Gaza, the ultimate humiliation
    • Off topic

      I just listened your interview with Scott Horton Annie. It's so lovely to hear your voice for the first time. You sound more lovely and wonderful than I even imagined.

      I could listen to endlessly. More please!!

  • Oren's criticism of US Jews earns his book five thumbs down: 'slinky,' 'self-aggrandizing,' 'twists reality'
    • Given what a train wreck this book has become, one has to wonder if being tone deaf and out of touch with reality is a side effect of Zionism. Even from within the bubble of the Beltway, it is unimaginable that Oren could have been so immune to the cracks in the pro Israeli facade and the chasm dividing Israel from the US public, if not the rest of the world.

      Now that he had entered politics, Oren has clearly entered the realm of pandering to the right wing constituents of the Likud Coalition and abandoned all reason for political expediency.

    • Phill,

      You left out Aaron David Miller's criticism too, which is also pretty scathing.

      link to foreignpolicy.com

  • 'A traumatized society is dangerous'
    • I listened to Thus interview with Hazel Kahn when it was first published as a podcast and found it to be one of the most astute and enlightening I have heard. I have lustened to it many times since. It explains do much about the Israeli psyche.

      Her analysis is not only hugely enlightening, but very grim and depressing because if indeed Israel cannot be reasoned with and is not a rational actor, then that can only means unlimited violence and bloodshed.

      It also reveals why Liberal Zionists are ultimately just as dangerous as right wing Zionists.

  • 'Jewish cow' is udderly superior to all other cows in the world, Netanyahu says
    • Seriously, I thought this was a joke when I first read it. Is there no limit to Bibbi's buffoonery?

      Then again, Benny Morris believes in Hamas chickens, so maybe it's a Zionist thing.

  • Guess who sent me this letter
  • When will justice's 'thunderbolt' come for Palestine?
    • Israel has built a liberal democracy in a region where such forms of government are unknown. Its democracy has expanded in the last

      Not only that but in Hop's world, up is down, white is black, war is peace, slavery is freedom apartheid is democracy.

      Thank God we have Hop around to invert reality at every opportunity.

  • Leading NY writer likens Edward Said to monster in a horror movie
    • You can read all about how full of it Said was in Joshua Muravchik’s “Making David into Goliath”.

      Yeah, nothing like turning to another lunatic neocon, who had been wrong about everything, as an authority.

  • 'NYT' article on UN's Gaza report strains to demonstrate equivalence in suffering
    • In contrast, Hamas fired more than 4,800 rockets and over 1,700 mortar shells, which killed 6 civilians and injured 1,600 others.”

      What air find sickening is that number if rockets fired is always mentioned but no mention of the number of bimbs, shells, missiles thecIsraelus fired at Gaza.

      For example, according to Mark Perry, s U.S. Defence Department report recalls that the IDF fired 7,000 artillery shells at residential areas in the district the night of Jul. 19, including 4,500 shells in the space of just seven hours.

      In other words, Israel fired as many wheels in 7 hours as all the rockets Hamas fired during the entire war. Why is this always omitted?

  • On anniversary of Gaza massacre UK activists plan to shut down Israeli drone factory
    • It must be understood that it is partly because of the BDS threats that Israel is forced to increase its focus on such industries as they are practically immune to people-level boycott

      Yeah right, so now you're going to argue that the occupation is also a response to BDS? Talk about revisionist crap and ignoring cause and effect.

  • Obscure Netanyahu minister emerges as unsung international hero in latest 'NYT' report
    • What a pathetic joke. Oren has said publicly that Israel would rather the Al Qaeda types win than Assad, yet he expects the world to believe that Israel would mastermind a plan which would keep Assad in power.

      Stand by for a similar piece of propaganda from Rudoren in August where she reveals that Israel were behind the success of the Iran nuclear deal all along.

  • Israel's race to economic (and moral) bankruptcy
    • A) it would take a lot of international coordination and solidarity to make it really hurt Israel (when you get a company like Intel, Ford or Samsung you’re on the right track – and I can’t see that happening in the near future)

      Wrong. Israel are already very fearful of being hurt and the Rand Corporation Report shows that BDS could cost Israel tens of billions.

      On the other hand, your strategy would amount to throwing a wet noodle at Israel.

      B) Even if you have phenomenal success – I don’t see Israel saying: “oh, this is hurting – let’s withdraw our troops”.

      The same could be said for your strategy of treating Israel with kid gloves.

      More likely in my opinion that Israel would withdraw into a state like North Korea – having less to lose and doing worse things (is that possible?).

      Fine then let them. The elite will pull their money out of the state. The educated and skilled workers will flee the country. Occupations cost money and Israel will be forces to decide between feed their population or maintaining the occupation.

      Alternatively, Israel will find new trade partners such as Russia and China –switching sides in cold war #2.

      No way will Russia and China give such gratuitous support and aid to Israel. US support for Israel is based on the money from the lobby not US interests. China and Russia on the other hand will not put up with that crap. Any alliance with Israel will have to be based on give and take.

      C) And what I see as most likely – at any moment in time if Israel decides the 1000 paper cuts are adding up, it will simply create and then remove a couple of settlements and start “negotiations” with whatever puppet government is around at the time. After a year or so the negotiations fail, but in the mean time the boycott subsides (a.k.a Iran nuclear boycott strategy)

      No, because BDS is not based only or removal of a couple of settlements but human rights. The sanctions against Iran are not based on any reason, but purely political so they were always bound to collapse eventually. They are also imposed from the top down.

    • The more you elaborate Todd, the more pathetic an impotent your ideas sound.

      They all amount to pissing into the wind.

      I’m talking about international pressure and worldwide campaigning. All I’m saying is direct the pressure at the weak points in Israels barricade.

      BDS is precisely aimed at Israel's weak points. You yourself earlier argued that Israel's arms industry will be immune to BDS, so BDS is focused at the grass roots level where the the consumer participates by boycotting Israel's consumer exports as well as applying pressure companies with investments in Israel.

      International pressure on Israel to allow an entertainer to perform in the west bank is different than international pressure on the entertainer not to perform at all.

      You are right, it is different. The former is completely and utterly useless and ineffective. It plays right into Israel's hands because performers who travel to Israel are not making the trip to do free gigs. They are there to make money. Israel can easily sabotage any performance in the West Bank while maintaining deniability.

      The performer can even cancel the performance altogether if not allowed to perform in the west bank

      But that assumes every performer how travels to Israel is interested in this level of political activism. Again, how do you know every a performer would want to participate in this exercise?

      You'e just clutching at straws and some up with novel ways to throw a wet noodle at Israel. Israel re already being condemned by the international community and don't give a damn.

      International pressure on Israel to allow companies to create offices in Ramallah is harder to sidestep than those companies refusing to do business with Israel.

      Rubbish. International pressure on Israel to allow companies to create offices in Ramallah would be almost impossible to enforce. Again, why would those companies want to sent up offices in Ramallah? What financial or economic incentive would there be? The PA is broke and who would pay for security of employees? Where would those employees come from given that so few have the skills such companies would require?

      Another example of positive action being active rather than passive is the case of flotillas to gaza. This is the sort of pressure I personally see as effective. Have land caravans into the west bank doing the same.

      Been done. Israel stop those flotillas and are even known to murder the participants. Neither Jordan not Egypt would allow any access either, thanks to Washington's purse strings.

      It’s harder for the Israeli public or world supporters to call that an antisemitic anti-Israel act.

      Doesn't matter. Israel's security forces would simply confiscate all the items and ensure no reporters were able to report on it.

      So Israel has to squirm and make up excuses. I see these as cracks in Israel’s armour.

      That do that already.

      Basically, you have nothing but more of the same that plays entirely into Israel's hands. All Israel would have to do is argue that no other country has the right to dictate terms of trade with them

    • Rather than focusing on negative action, I think the world should focus on positive action – instead of convincing companies to stop doing business with Israel – demand that they do business with Palestine.

      Pathetic and vacuous.

      What do you propose those companies do if Israel violate the agreement? After all, you don't believe in any punitive action whatsoever, so by your own guidelines, those that enter into such an agreement with Israelis companies should not break those contracts or seek damages for violating those terms.

      Instead of demanding that academics or entertainers cancel their visits to Israel – demand that they visit the west bank and Israel but convey messages of outrage regarding Israeli war crimes/human rights abuse while there.

      Again what if they don't? According to your pathetic and impotent guidelines, if Israel refuse to accept those terms, they should face no consequences anyway.

      After all, it's all about being positive right? Positive meaning, make empty demands of Israel, but do nothing if Israel fail to abide by them.

      I’m not saying BDS or military action against Israel would be wrong or evil, I am not saying Israel doesn’t deserve isolation/world intervention – I’m saying that to me it seems impractical, time consuming and possibly counterproductive.

      What you have just laid out would be not only time consuming and possibly counterproductive, it would be a complete waste fo time. There are already dozens of UN Resolutions against Israel and Israel has flouted them with impunity because it knows that there are no consequences for the state of Israel.

      Zionism is extreme nationalism and I don’t see how economic or military pressure could change public opinion in Israel in a way that would cause Israelis to be less extreme. The opposite seems more true.

      Israel's trajectory towards extremism is already underway, so contrary to your claims, it's not pressure that is causing it to happen.

      Positive action on the other hand, in my opinion – has a stronger impact on public opinion in Israel.

      You've just proven my point that you are simply advocating the status quo. That's been tried for 48 years and it's been a monumental failure. Israel has been on the receiving end of nothing positive action. Even Martin Indyk has admitted in a moment of candour that the belief in Washington was that giving copious amounts of military aid and diplomatic support to Israel would embolden Israel to take risks for peace. As Indyk was forced to concede, this had the opposite effect. The aid and diplomatic support merely convinced the Israelis that they didn't have to pursue peace at all.

      Imagine pictures of Robbie Williams taking a tour of Hebron and interviewed stating hoiw horrified he is.

      Hard to imagine seeing as the state of Israel would not only never allow it, but that the promoters would never agree to those terms and because his concert would likely be boycotted by Israelis.

      Imagine an HP distribution center opened in Ramallah and Israeli businesses forced to purchase hardware there.

      All that would lead to is Israeli forced moving into Ramallah and placing it on lock down under the pretext of guaranteeing security to Israeli citizens and settlers who moved there.

      What are you are proposing is all about letting the status quo stick.

      Thanks for exposing yourself as another pathetic pro Israeli shill.

    • Trying to fit people (especially clowns) into templates will make you miss – a lot.

      Don't kid yourself. You liberal Zionist types are so obvious and leave so little to the imagination that it's pretty hard to miss.

      If you disagree with my ideas – explain what you disagree with and why.

      Had you been paying attention you'd have noticed this is precisely what I did. But more to the point, you offered the weazle argument that your opposition to BDS is that it would be too slow and ineffective to bring justice to the Palestinians. It's pretty obvious to everyone here that you didn't offer an alternative strategy because you don't have one. Your agenda is to maintain the status quo, while hoping to get away with maintaining the facade that you want peace.

      It's not peace you want. What you want is to shift the attention away from Israel.

      I doubt you want the occupation to end – what would you troll about then?

      Typical Zionidt projection. It's not the occupation you want to end - it's scrutiny to of Israel.

    • All I am saying is that I would prefer to see an exchange of ideas rather than a war of ideas in the middle east…

      Because you know, an exchange of ideas doesn't make Israel look so bad, but rather an unsuspecting participant in a series of unfortunate events.

      Each side sees it’s own perspective/narrative as the truth and is ignorant or lacks understanding of the other side’s perspective..

      What a load of rubbish. The world has been inundated with Israel's perspective for 65 years and now the other perspective (the actual facts) are slowly surfacing, and the likes of Tod don't like it one bit.

      This is as bad as the intelligent design people who get so whiny when it comes time to study evolution. “What do you mean we descended from apes… It’s just a theory… We want equal time for our batshit theories too”

    • and personally I think it will fail or take too long to do either, which is why I don’t support it

      Oh isn't that touching! Darling Tod is so eager for justice and peace for the Palestinians that BDS just isn't good enough because it won't deliver results soon enough.

      Does this clown have any idea how bloody obvious he is. He opposes BDS because it is bad for Israel. And I bet if he ever came up with a strategy to bring about peace, it would be the same one that has failed miserably for 65 years. Another J Street Israeli firster.

    • The separation wall runs mostly along the green line.

      No, it mainly cuts up to 10 miles into Palestinian territory and runs around illegal settlements.

      Final border agreements will anyway entail land sweeps so I don’t think the walls exact route is that important.

      That's a bit like saying that the rape victim wasn't a virgin at the time, so the rape itself was not a big deal. The "land swaps" BS has become such a pathetic talking point that even those opposed to a 2ss reel it off without a second thought. The position of the Israeli government is that there will never be a Palestinian state, so the land swaps BS is a complete canard.

      No land swaps can take place without mutual agreement. The apartheid concrete wall was build to be a permanent fixture so that the land it is used to steal can never be returned to the Palestinians.

      It is true that the wall causes hardship to some Palestinians but it serves the greater good of preventing suicide bombing that ultimately hurt both populations.

      Yes, the blacks need to suffer so that the white folk can enjoy their privileges and continue to exploit them. Got it Jimmy Crowe.

      So will the wall doesn’t give an absolute solution to the problem it definitely makes the life of suicide bombers more difficult.

      The solution that the wall gives is not to prevent suicide attacks but to steal land.

      If and when peace comes the wall will be removed. Inshalla!

      Israel does not want peace, it wants territory and will maintain a permanent state of war in order to steal more and hang on to what it has stolen.

      I find it amusing you think me a “white guy”. I can trace my lineage in Palestine back at least 14 generations (the Rivlin and Azoulay families – just like our president).

      So could Eli Yishai, who is a Spehardic Jew, who is famous for saying that

      “Most of the people coming here are Muslims who think the land doesn’t belong to us, to the white man”.

      And yes there are indeed separate roads for Palestinians as well as separate license plates for Arab drivers. The non Israeli Palestinians are under Israeli control in the apartheid state of Israel.

    • Walls are quite normal.

      There is nothing normal about Israel's apartheid wall. There is a wall separating USA and Mexico does not cut into Mexico or the USA - it runs along the internationally recognized border.

      There wall between Spain and Morocco does not cut into Spain or the Morocco - it runs along the internationally recognized border.

      The Israel-west bank wall was built as a land grabbing exercise. 1500 Palestinians a week manage to get through or around it every week, so any determined suicide bomber could easily get past it.

      A genuine response to the intifada would have been to end the occupation and illegal settlements.

      I have driven over most roads in my country and never encountered separate roads “for Arabs”.

      Says the privileged white guy in the apartheid state who never experiences segregation.

      The territory is not disputed. No one but Israel considered it disputed, which means that it isn't. It is illegally occupied.

      The separate roads that you originally claimed did not exist, then admit do exist are there to serve illegal settlements. As for drive by shootings, that a far cry from the Israelis who shot Palestinians who tried to return to their homes after the 1948 war.

      The roads where not reopened for general traffic and yes, there are different license plates for Arab drivers.
      link to mondoweiss.net
      link to en.wikipedia.org
      You are a pathetic liar.

    • There is an ongoing blood feud going on between Jews and Arabs in Palestine for the last century, so a certain level of animosity is to be expected. It has nothing to do with “segregation” and everything to do with normal human psychology.

      Describing the IP conflict as part of a n ongoing blood feud going on between Jews and Arabs in Palestine is like describing rape as part of the battle of the sexes.

    • Because, as an Israeli living in Israel, I don’t think what’s going on in Israel can be honestly described as segregation.

      And speak to any inmate in a prison and the majority will also will insist they are innocent. Ask any abusive man if he beats his wife and he'll deny it. Ask any pedophile if they are harming children and they'll maintain that they are simply demonstrating their love for children.

      So of course you don't think that what’s going on in Israel can be honestly described as segregation. Back in the days of Jim Crowe or Apartheid South Africa, the minority of whites thought that their societies were perfectly normal too.

      Of course, reality tells a different story

      Segregation of Jews and Arabs in 2010 Israel is almost absolute
      For those of us who live here, it is something we take for granted. But visitors from abroad cannot believe their eyes.

      link to haaretz.com

    • benedict,

      Obviously you know very little about hareidi society – past or present.

      Obviously you have no point to make. All you have demonstrated is that the hareidi society has gone from a largely uneducated one that refused to participate in the workforce to a better educated one that still refuses to participate in the workforce. Furthermore, it's not clear that that learning society came about from a conscious strategy from within or simply resulted from the opportunity presented by government funded education.

      As the relative size of the hareidi sector increases economic and social factors are driving an opposite dynamic of work and self sufficiency.

      Care you mention what these increased economic and social factors are or do you need more time to think about it and spend time on Google?

      There are close to ten thousand hareidi students, men and women, In various academic fields. The trend will only grow in the future.

      And how is this trend going to lead to haredi society participating in the workforce, as opposed to haredi simply wasting all their time and state money studying religious texts that contribute nothing to the economy?

    • It is almost amusing to see how Cooks anti Israeli bias gets the better of him.

      It's rather sad how you pretend to be amused while projecting your own condition onto others.

      What evidence do you have that hareidi society in fifty years will be very different then today? They were not part of the workforce 30-40 years ago and they are not today - so what is so very different?

  • Video: Israeli soldiers violently attack unarmed Palestinian man
    • When you see how pathetic these Israelis are - 5 ganged up against one - it's hardly surprising that Hezbollah kicked the shit out of the IDF Dough Boys in pitched battles on the ground.

      Take away their guns and this guy probably would have been able to beat the crap out of these pussies.

    • I would love to see what the preceding 5 minutes showed.

      Yes Mike I am sure who ever shot this edited the smoking gun evidence to show the guy deserved what he got.

  • Schumer says Jewish and American interests on Iran deal differ but he has 'to do what's right for U.S.'
    • As I said you sound just like the Jew hater David Duke. You can see for yourself.

      And as I said you sound just like the goy hater, Caroline Glick.

    • So, worrying about Israeli deaths makes me dually loyal, but worrying about Iranian deaths makes you pro-American, is that it?

      Oh STFU Hop.

      It's the Israeli foresters who have been pushing for war. No war means no deaths in either country GOT IT?

    • And why can’t Jews advance the position that support of Israel is in America’s best interest without facing antisemitic dual loyalty charges.

      Because as Schumer points out, that is a lie and perpetuating a lie in service of a foreign country is treason.

  • Is BDS practicing a double standard with respect to Arab countries?
    • I use Google.com.au Level 5, 48 Pirrama Road, Pyrmont, NSW 2009 Australia

      Wow Talknic, are you really in Sydney? That address is 5-10 mins from where I live.

    • Keep it up Steve,

      Jaffa oranges were created by the Palestinians and Soda Stream could use all the help it can get based on it's sad share prices.

    • Calling BDS a double standard is a recipe for not doing anything unless you can address every problem

      In fact, the double standard is from those oppose boycott, seeing as opponents of BDS pretty much all support the blockade of Gaza, embargo of Iran etc.

      What's more, is that the so called Liberal Zionists insist on no punitive measures being taken against Israel whatsoever.

    • Beinart destroys Munayyer here, and exposes the hypocrisy of the BDS movement, which seeks Israel’s destruction as a Jewish state.

      You sound as unhinged as Lapid. Beinart throws up dust and ends up choking on it. Like Munayyer, I would be the first to sign on to boycott of Arab Muslim ethnocentric dictatorships like Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Jordan and Egypt. The problem of course is that there are no products exported from these states that are readily available or that I would buy anyway.

      In fact, if I could be frank, I would love to Riyadh reduced to rubble.

  • Obama's disgust for Netanyahu's 'stink' signals coming era of Jewish persecution in the U.S., says 'Tablet'
    • BTW. Has anyone noticed that you have to pay to post comments at Tablet? Sounds like they are getting desperate in their attempts to censor and control the narrative.

    • But here’s the thing, as Cohen sounds the “death knell” for American Jewry no where do I recall him saying that now was the time to flee to Israel. I mean isn’t that why Israel is there, just for this particular circumstance?

      Great point. That really is the elephant in the room isn't it?

      Cohen is crying wolf because he and his ilk have tried for too long to polish the turd and no one is buying it. Cohen is like the guy threatening to jump off the building while passers by pay no attention.

    • there’s no evidence of a growth of anti semitism in this country. none

      Of course there isn't. The golden age Cohen sees coming to an end is the prestige that Israel has enjoyed in the West - the light unto the nations who's light is dwindling.

      Cohen and his ilk are also adopting the strategy recommended to those opposing BDS on campuses - be emotional.

  • Supreme Court slam dunks the Israel lobby on Jerusalem, 6-3 (and Rubio, Oren, and Engel are angry)
    • But in all honesty, I’m not really sure why you see a big difference here. Whether Jews established a refuge or a state, the Arabs in the region would still have opposed any major influx of Jews.

      Just as Israelis would be opposed to an influx of foreigners into Israel, let alone those determined the take their land from them.

    • Hostage. A moral giant.

      As well as an intellectual one.

    • Lol. You’re, as usual, making a mountain out of a molehill

      The pro Israeli groups seem to think it's a mountain Hop.

    • Any bets that this will result in mass arrests of Palestinians based on alleged terrorist plots and a series of false flag incidents either in the West Bank or alleged to have been instigated by Palestinians of the West Bank …. starting …. tonight Jun 9th 2015 AEST

      Yes, Israel is like the cowardly wife beater who gets reprimanded at work for drinking on the job, then goes home and takes it out on his wife.

  • Notes from the Munayyer-Beinart debate
    • As for your criticism of my effort, I put in several valuable hours to compose this piece. How long did you spend on your comment?

      Please don't waste your time trying to justify your effort David. Your moral and intellectual credentials are beyond Yonah's comprehension.

    • Was this use of the word “Moroccan” a rhetorical ploy by Beinart (or an error?) , since Misrahim are 2nd class in Israel and the judge in the hypothetical would be deciding the case between 2nd class Israeli and 99th class not-yet-Israeli.

      Perhaps, but it's more basic than that. If one peels back the liberal facade, what Beinart is arguing is that this is only a nightmarish scenario because it involves the possibility of an Israeli (or Moroccan) Jew being dispossessed of their ill gotten gains, whereas the status quo in which Palestinian who have been dispossessed of their land and must give up any hope of returning to their homes is not nightmarish at all, just less than ideal.

    • Shingo, you make a good counter-argument. However, I tried to imagine this debate from the point of view of someone more neutral or uninformed, and found it “potentially persuasive” only to such people, not to myself. To a great extent, debates are like theater, and I can appreciate the debating skills of even a deplorable human being making reprehensible points (think Alan Dershowitz). I was simply finding Beinart to be skillful.

      I agree David, and pro Israeli arguments can often sound persuasive to the uninitiated until they are further examined.

    • I don't find Beinarts arguments remotely compelling David. For example:

      More specifically, he conjured a nightmarish one-state scenario in which a judge would have to either rule against a Moroccan Jew’s ownership of a house his family has occupied for 60 years or nullify a Palestinian’s pre-existing deed to that same house, and the ethnic makeup of an army that would be required to enforce that ruling.

      The status quo does not solve this in any way. The fact that the Palestinian is denied entry or return simply means that the state sides with the Moroccan by default and avoids the judge having to make that finding.

      All Beinart is arguing is that the status quo means these ugly injustices can be perpetuated and maintained behind a facade of legitimacy. The guilt and crimes ob the part of the state can go on being denied.

  • People behind BDS are also responsible for 9/11 attack, Israeli centrist tells NY synagogue
    • The situation is getting worse, the tide is turning and either we turn it back now or it will sweep over us.

      This should be music to the ears of all BDS supporters. This is the best confirmation and affirmation of the success of BDS and that it is a winning strategy.

      Thank you Heir uhumm, I mean, Yair Lapid.

  • Gaza’s al-Nasser Salah al-Din Brigades prepares for next Israeli war
    • Strange as it may sound, Hamas, Egypt and Israel may have to cooperate against ISIS.

      That's not strange at all. Hamas have send messages to Israel to insist they do not want war and that the recent attacks are an attempt by ISIS to start one.

      Netanyahu has rejected these overtures and insists that Hamas will be held accountable for any rockets fired from Gaza.

    • you don’t give a damn about compromise or the steps it may take to secure a peaceful and prosperous homeland

      Amazing coming from someone defending a political leadership who is opposed to any kind of peace. The same leadership that for a decade, has continually rejected the Arab Peace offer singed by 22 Arabs states offering to not only recognise Israel, but normalize relations.

      that is quite obvious and frankly one of the major reasons (among others of course) that Palestinean people continue to live in undeserved squalor and insecurity.

      The main reason being that they not Jews, and no amount of concessions - other than mass conversion to Judaism - will ever change that.

      maybe if you started giving a damn (and dealing with the world AS IT IS, not as you wish it to be) the people of Palestine would be a lot better off

      No, because no an amount of giving a damn will change the fact that those Palestinians are not Jews.No amount of giving a damn will stop Palestinians being regarded as a demographic threat.

    • Shingo, on the link I provided, third paragraph from the bottom.

      That still doesn't prove anything. There is no claim that Hamas used those grounds to launch rockets at Israel, which was your original claim.

      As your link states:

      Some were interrogated and tortured or otherwise ill-treated in a disused outpatient’s clinic within the grounds of Gaza City’s main al-Shifa hospital

      Thus there is nothing in that statement supporting Israel's and your claim that the al-Shifa hospital was used to attack Israel.

    • <blockq

    • Note the use of a facility on the grounds of al-Shifa hospital as an interrogation-and-torture center by Hamas

      There is no reference any use of the facility by Hamas. Your link only mentions that one man collected the body of his brother from the al-Shifa hospital.

      There is no claim about Hamas using the hospital grounds for it's operations.

    • I agree with Walid.

      If the Rafah crossing opens more permanently, there will undoubtedly be a "terrorist attack" by unidentified militants - clearly not in Hamas's interests - and Egypt will be forced to close it again.

    • Excellent – do you have a link? It’s no secret they’ve been doing it for years, but I wasn’t aware they had actually admitted it in public

      Sure:

      link to haaretz.com

      link to jpost.com

    • israel withdrew and blockaded gaza. before 2007, there was this

      Not to mention this:

      link to hrw.org
      link to hrw.org

    • “Palestinian Rocket Attacks since the IDF Withdrawal

      What about the Israeli shelling of Gaza right after it withdrew, firing nearly 15 thousand shells at Gaza by May 2007. Funny how pro Israeli shills keep ignoring this inconvenient fact.

      “From September 2005 through May 2007, the same period covered by the rocket
      attack statistics cited above, the IDF fired 14,617 artillery shells into Gaza.

      link to hrw.org

    • Well, it certainly is absurd when you start invoking things I didn’t say and don’t think.

      I didn't put words in your mouth or even ascribe any thoughts to you Donald. What I did was take your arguments to their logic conclusions or consider the consequences.

      I recognize that you strive to maintain high levels of moral consistency in your arguments Donald, and in that regard, you are head and shoulders above me. But there comes a point at which that level of objectivity falls apart.

      For someone who is usually so considered and thougtful, you occasionally turn to a superficial position that if only Hamas or other militants behaved themselves, then their lives would better or that the wheels of justice would come to aid of the Palestinians.

      You alluded to the right to resist being incumbent upon being able to achieve a result. As Can Of Worms had pointed out, that's no your call not is it based on any legal interpretation. What your argument does do is impose a condition on the Palestinians (the ability to defend their citizens) that is impossible for them to meet while being no problem for Israel. Surely you can see that problem with your position.

      You alluded to BDS as a preferable solution, but that begs the question, what if BDS begins to really bite and the Israelis seek retribution through military attacks on the Palestinians. Would that make BDS illegitimate?

    • Modern unguided weapons, as used in the USA, Russia and Israel are spin stabilized.

      Pathetic non sequitir.

      1. Unguided is still unguided.

      2. As has already pointed out, Palestinian resistance groups would love to have spin stabilized munitions and launchers if they could get their hands on them.

      although they can’t course correct for the targets motion, are accurate, with CEPs of 200m (<1%) or less at 20km.

      False argument either way. Israel do not use their munitions for targeted attacks.

      An account of the Shujaiya destruction by the US Defense Department report recalls that the IDF fired 7,000 artillery shells at residential areas in the district the night of Jul. 19, including 4,500 shells in the space of just seven minutes.

      This is utterly inconsistent with the intent of targeted strikes..

      Such massive and indiscriminate destruction of civilian structures is strictly prohibited by the international laws of war. Israeli officials have frequently said the purpose of IDF military operations in both Lebanon and Gaza was to “deter” their adversaries in the future by imposing heavy costs on the civilian population.

      They are incredibly inaccurate, with a circular error probable in the 10% range, meaning that it will miss the theoretical target by more than a kilometer.

      There is no difference between missing a target by 1000m vs 200m. What you are ignoring is the fact that Israel's munitions have a kill radius of over 100 meters, as opposed to home made rockets which is about 10m.

      That makes the Israeli munitions 100 times deadlier.

    • If they could win their freedom with weapons, then yes, they have the right to do it, but the fact is that rocket fire accomplished nothing.

      It's times like this Donald that I get the impression you are taking your intellectual objectivity and emotional detachment to borderline sadism. It is reminiscent of the Just War Theory debate we had when you stood alone with Jerome Slater and one or two right wing Israeli supporters in defense of an option that only a state Roth a powerful army could ever contemplate.

      Now you are arguing that the Palestinians efforts to resist are immoral because they have no chance of prevailing.

      The more one examines your argument, the more absurd it becomes. It implies moral failure on the part of the weak for not having better weaponry or more to the point, that morality is proportional to the military capabilities of the state. One could argue you're justifying military aggression so long as the state in question can guarantee the safety of it's citizenry.

      In any case,your reasoning is flawed, because is rests upon the false assumption that nonresistance would lead to better outcome. There is little evidence to support this.

      Moshe Dayan revealed long ago that with respect to the conflict with Syria, Israel's strategy was to escalate their incitement until the Syrians eventually fired back, which the Israelis then used as a pretext for war.

      In the case of Gaza, we already know Israel employs this strategy relentlessly. Every time the leadership feels the itch to mow the lawn, there is a predictable raid or cross border attack based on a phony pretext. If this doesn't trigger the desired response, Israel ups the ante until they get the reaction they want.

      Acquiescence will not stop air strikes or artillery barrages either, because this is usually how Israel initiates the conflict, even if you ignore the ongoing occupation. You're prescription is that Palestinians take their punishment like an abused wife hoping that her husband will stop beating her once he feels satiated or loses interest. While this might shorten the duration of the beatings, it will not prevent the next one.

    • Nicely done Talknic.

      DaBakr is recycling the Ziosupremacist trope that everything Israel does is self defense and that Israel alone has that right - even when it's starting wars. He is also ignoring the fact that Israeli leaders are already talking about the next war and warning that it will claim more civilian casualties than the last.

    • If Mondoweiss claims the mantel of the war of ideas, what exactly should one think about this article about the resistance?

      How about the fact one never gets to hear these testimonies and that the narrative we are perpetually fed is the Israeli narrative that these resisters only reason d 'etre is to kill Jews and that they have no interest in peace or civilized existence?

    • I take it Donald that the principal of cause and effect is foreign to you.

      Seriously Donald, while I have the greatest respect for you and your comments, you continue to insist on setting the moral yard stick for the Palestinians far higher than for Israel.

      One could only agree with you and Yonah if you believe this is a conflict between 2 sides that are equally powerful and equally culpable.

      Would you also argue a rape victim should be prosecuted for the scratches she inflicts on her assailant. After all, one could argue the rapist would've far more gentle if she didn't put up a fight. Hell, she might even decide she's not being raped after all and enjoy it.

    • Actually they are cowardly terrorists, like Hamas, who hide behind their own civilians.

      Thanks for displaying your psychosis once again Jon S.

      The IDF has openly admitted it uses human shields and has appealed a Supreme Court ban against their use.

      I take it you therefore admit the IDF are also cowardly terrorists, like Hamas, who hide behind civilians?

      We saw them last summer , employing a cynical strategy deliberately intended to increase civilian casualties among their own people – by using hospitals, mosques, schools and civilian residences as launching sites, arms depots and such.

      You saw no such thing. In fact, your cowardly IDF couldn't produce any evidence of this and resorted to using footage from 2012.

      Now they’re rebuilding: rockets, tunnels, bunkers for themselves- not homes for their people.

      According to the UN, Israel is blocking the importation of all building materials.

      Hopefully, next time they hear a drone, it will be the last thing they hear.

      Let's see how you feel when a Hezbollah drone is flying over your home scum bag.

    • Mondoweiss often plumbs the depths of the abyss, but this is too much; it’s basically an article glorifying terrorists in Gaza.

      What's is your complaint exactly DS? The glorifying of terrorists or only the glorifying of terrorists in Gaza?

      Israel elected 2 terrorists to the office of prime minister. Is that not the glorifying of terrorists?

      In 2006, Israel also CELEBRATED the 60th anniversary of the bombing of the bombing of the King David Hotel. This was met with consternation by Britain. Is this not the glorifying of terrorists too DS?

      Please help me out here.

    • It is clear that Mr. Cohen is sympathetic to people who would want to kill him were he not a useful idiot for their cause.

      If that were true, why didn't they take the opportunity to kill him when they had the chance?

    • Since they aren’t guided, they can’t target anything, which would be necessary for them to hit specifically military targets.

      Shells and cluster bombs aren't guided either, and the number of shells fired by Israel at Gaza is about 10 times all the rockets ever fired into Israel.

      Your argument also debunks the Israeli talking point that Hamad et all target civilians. If they are unable to target military targets then they are just as unable to target civilians.

      Israel on the other hand, have precision guided weapons and kill majority civilians, so they are far and away more guilty of war crimes.

    • Also unguided are shells, as in the 14000 Israel fired into Gaza between September 2005 and June 2007

  • The totalitarian reign of Sheldon Adelson
    • , to begin with by undertaking investigations of the power of the Adelson/Sabans, those donors for whom Israel is everything

      Phil,

      I would be fascinated to hear your thoughts and others as to why Israel means everything to these individuals? Is it that the more powerful and wealthy Jews become, the more right wing and pro Israel they become? It seems that wherever there is pro Israeli pressure, there is an uber wealthy individual pulling the strings.

      Or is it that the likes of Adelson and Saban just happen to be wealthy and pro Israel by chance?

  • US and Israeli pressure on Nigeria to sell out Palestine at U.N. amounted to 'national security threat'
    • The arrests are also a cynical attempt to undermine the World Cup in Russia in 2018.

    • You can have as many ‘suspicions’ as you like about indictments but if you really don’t think that the PA authority and Rajoub personally are extremely corrupt (as corrupt as anyone can be) and this extends to the PA administering to FIFA -then your seriously lacking in perspective.

      Who is even denying the level of corruption among the PA? It is precisely that level of corruption that makes them the poodle fo choice for Israel and why even Netanyahu keeps arguing against the cutting of funds to the PA.

      And speaking of corruption, Israel ranks as among the most corrupt in the West.

  • Netanyahu's new Foreign Ministry aide gets $226,000 from Sheldon Adelson shop in U.S.
    • I am sad to have to correct you, but Australia does not yet recognize same sex marriage, though same sex weddings are common.

      Hopefully that will change in the near future once our hypocritical and bigoted leaders can no longer face the embarrassment of bring the only state in the west who doesn't.

  • The crisis of the American Jewish community
    • A professor of Judaic studies at Wayne State University, he said at the forum that American Jews have the “luxury” of living far away from Hamas.

      Another Israeli supporter who admits Israel is less safe for Jews than the diaspora.

  • Obama equates Israel's creation to African-Americans gaining right to vote
    • life for Jews in Europe is becoming increasingly untenable.

      Spoken liking a right wing ignoramus who has never been to Europe. You should tell all those Jees lining up to migrate to Berlin Hop.

    • It's sickening how Obama talks abou the need to consider history in justifying the need for a Jewish state but then ignores the history of Palestinian expulsion and land theft to justify their grievances.

  • Sheesh: A conservative response to the special relationship
    • Indeed it is. I was thinking the same thing. The F35 is turning out to be the biggest and most expensive white elephant if all time. Them Israel all the F35s they want. I suspect the USAF is only too happy to get rid of them.

  • Zionism is tired
    • His main villain was Britain. The British looked on the matter from an imperial strategic perspective. If the Brits gave in to the Jews on Palestine they figured they would have trouble all over the Middle East, but if they gave into the Arabs they would only have trouble in Palestine, from the Jews (here Goda echoed his co-editor Richard Breitman); and so they chose the latter.

      This is mind boggling in the extreme. How can anyone possibly make this argument without inviting ridicule? They seem to be of the belief that the reference to the Jewish National Hone in the Mandate magically appeared from nowhere

      We're it not for the British, the mandate would never have included any mention of a Jewish National Home. There would have been very little immigration possible, not protection of Jewish immigrants, no automatic right of Jews to become citizens, no turning a blind eye to Jewish militias arming themselves while Arabs were being disarmed and being subjected to collective punishment like home demolitions , no one to put down the Arab Revolt.

      These guys are insane.

  • US press blacks out Israeli defense minister's citation of 'Nagasaki and Hiroshima' as model for dealing with Iran
  • What if the Times had sent Rudoren to Selma in 1965?
    • You are one. Your goal quite clearly stated is the deliberately premeditated mass death of the vast majority of the Jewish population due to an economic collapse caused by a Nato blockade.

      That's quite extraordinary Jeff. Where and when have I quite clearly stated anything even remotely close to this JeffB? Is that what you do when losing an argument, say the first thing that comes into your racist supremacist, paranoid mind ?

      When have I ever alluded to the the death of any Jewish person?

      You are a sick and deranged liar.

      But BDS’s demand isn’t merely a 2SS. 2SSers like the European mainstream may be wrong but they aren’t racist advocates for genocide.

      What BDS is advocating for is far less destructive and violent than what Israel is doing in Gaza. Do I take that as an admission from you therefore that Israel is made up of racist advocates for genocide?

      BDS ranges from the PLO charter position to the Hamas charter.

      Oh my, you really have lost your mind. Name one statement from the BDS web site that includes anything from the PLO or Hamas Charters. Not something you claim to have heard or was inferred, not what a friend of a friend of a cousin of an associate of a BDSer once said, but an actual statement.

      For J-Street Israel is a normal country doing bad stuff and should stop doing the bad stuff.

      Who the hell cares what J-Street stands for? J-Street is for maintaining the status quo, maintain Jewish supremacy in Israel, while trying to improve Israel's image.

      For BDS Israel is an intrinsic evil and needs to be destroyed.

      No, that is your paranoia and tribalism talking not your head. You're rambling like a paranoid schizophrenic who thinks their parents are spying on them and that anyone who disagrees with them is an enemy.

      You are beyond pathetic, but sadly, you are a perfect stereotype of a so called "liberal Zionist".

    • You as a BDSer are arguing that Jews should never have had the right to a government of their own choosing that represents their interests.

      You racist Zionists hasbarats keep making that claim without ever citing one example fo any of it BDSers ever making such an argument. Jews, as with any tribe, can do what they like so long as they don't do it at the expense of others.

      BDS is about eliminating self determination for Jews because the Zionist project was illegitimate and replacing Israel with an Arab Muslim state.

      Another blatant and shameless lie. First of all, the Zionist project was illegitimate precisely because it replaced an Arab state with a Jewish state by expulsion and conquest/colonialism. The world decided long ago that these were indeed illegitimate practices.

      Withdrawing to the 1967 borders would not replace Israel with an Arab Muslim state. It would simply put and end to your greater Israel wet dream, which for you closet right wing racist nut jobs is indistinguishable from the existence of Israel as a state.

      Under that frame, Israel has borders, it is entitled to govern within those borders but that the West Bank and Gaza are outside those borders. One can argue about that case but that has nothing to do with MW or BDS.

      How does it not have anything to do with MW and BDS?

    • The economic segregation in the Kibbutz collapsed during the citrus boom.

      No, the economic segregation of Israel continues to this day.

      And I should mention the boycott came in reaction to the Palestinian ethnic cleansing of the early 1920s.

      No you shouldn't, because the the boycott came in reaction to the colonization of Palestine by Europeans at the expense of the Palestinians.

      The need for labor outstripped the Jewish population’s ability to provide it and there started to be economic cooperation.

      False. It was the need for a market that outstripped the Jewish population’s ability to provide it .

      This BTW is one of the big problem BDS case. BDS oversimplifies.

      No, BDS cuts through the Zionist bullshit which is why hasbara charlatans like you have to keep lying about what the declared aims of BDS are, and have to resort to halof truths and outright lies about what some high profile members of the BDS movement might have said.

      The entire narrative of evil Zionists intent on stealing the land falls apart the moment you stay to a particular year.

      WFT are you babbling about? What particular year did the Zionists stop stealing land?

      My claim was that huge chunks of potentially arable land were not available in 1905 because of 500-1000 of neglect.

      But that is clearly a lie. As the Zionist founders said, all the Arable land was already being cultivates, so how could it have been neglected? And yes, it clearly was providing more than enough food, otherwise there would not have been enough to export.

      You are caught in yet another lie.

      There was no country of Palestine! It didn’t exist. That’s not even a question for debate.

      False again. It it didn't exist, there would have been no Mandate for Paletine. As Pierre Orts, chairman of Mandate Commission of the League Of Nations said:

      "The mandate, in Article 7, obliged the Mandatory to enact a nationality law, which again showed that the Palestinians formed a nation, and that Palestine was a State </b?, though provisionally under guardianship. It was, moreover, unnecessary to labour the point; there was no doubt whatever that Palestine was a separate political entity."
      - See more at: link to unispal.un.org
      /0/FD05535118AEF0DE052565ED0065DDF7#sthash.Njl4TjL6.dpufhttp://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/FD05535118AEF0DE052565ED0065DDF7

      You're just channeling the old hasbara (orshoudlI say puss?) about land without a people for a people without a land.

      The administrative unites under the Ottomans didn’t even contain a single unit called “Palestine”

      Wrong again. The 19th century Jews certainly knew where Palestine was located. The documentary record proves that they repeatedly asked the US Consuls in Palestine and Constantinople for help in immigrating to Palestine. For example, The Ottoman Sultan had issued a firman permitting Jewish settlement in Syria that prevented Oriental and European Jews from settling in Palestine. Palestine was marked on most of the maps of the era. The first Jewish Aliya was carried-out in violation of that prohibition on mass Jewish immigration. In 1882, the American Consul summed up an immigration request from a group of Romanian Jews living in the Ottoman Empire this way:

      During the golden era of the Arab Caliphate Jund Filastin was an official military district with its own capital. The seat of government was initially located in Lod, was moved to Ramla, and finally ended up in Jerusalem. Wikipedia has an article about it.
      link to en.wikipedia.org

      The United States has posted Consuls to the country of Palestine ever since the early 19th century and treated it as a formal jurisdiction. For example, the US Government addressed the Ottoman Pasha as “his excellency Raouf Pasha Governor of Jerusalem and Palestine”.
      link to digicoll.library.wisc.edu

      Annual reports on Trade and Commerce of the country of Palestine were submitted to the US Bureau of Foreign Commerce from the Consuls in “Jerusalem, Palestine”. See for example the report for 1884.
      link to books.google.com

      Even the actual text of Basle Program of the First Zionist Congress did NOT use the term Eretz Israel, it used the term Palistina.
      link to upload.wikimedia.org

      It’s amazing to most of us that you modern-day Zionists need finding aids and citations to locate Palestine. It’s fairly obvious that your ancestors knew about it, managed to find the place, and even corresponded with the government officials there without too much difficulty.

    • There are places where you like to throw puss at the screen and hear from your amen corner how wonderful your puss is.

      You are clearly oblivious to the puss that you spew every day through your vile racism.

      That is false. For most of the 1920s there were over 100k Jews. There was no point in the 1880s where there were 8k Jews.

      False.

      As Shlomo Ben Ami points out in his book, Scars of War, Wounds of Peace, Jews were consistently 8% of the population.

      The citrus boom was over by the 1940s (though of course it remained a part of Israel’s infrastructure) as your compatriots below clearly show. Your times are off.

      In which case, that also blows up your claim that he citrus boom was due to the desert bloomism created by the Zionists.

      What do you think the Ottoman empire was? It was Turkey. The same way that the Roman Empire was Roman or the British Empire was England.

      The Turks did no build settlements in Palestine and expel the local population.

      Let’s disprove that one.

      Another hasbara fail.

      1. Where does the return of refugees as understood by BDS makes a claim of racial inheritance? The return of refugees as understood by BDS makes no such claim. If I inherit the property of my parents or grandparents, it has nothing to do with racial inheritance, it is based on the existence of property belonging to them that they have passed on to me due to the fact I am their progeny.

      2 What part of BDS advocated the expulsion of Jews from the settlements past 1967? And isn't it interesting how you justify the presence of Jews in those settlements because that’s where their parent’s (in a collective sense) lived? Is that not racial inheritance?

      BDS does not advocate collective punishment of any kind. At the most, it calls for the government of Israel to end it's occupation and for those settlements to return to Palestinian control, as would be the case if a Palestinian state were allowed to exist.

      for example were quite joyful abut “complete economic collapse” which is far more than Israel has done to Gaza.

      WFT are you babbling about? The UN has reported that Gaza will be unable to sustain life in another decade. That's what Israel has done to Gaza. How could BDS come close to that degree of destruction?

      So as it turns out, you have failed miserably to disprove anything I said. You seem to believe hat by medley spouting BS, your argument on which it is based is somehow legitimate.

      In what way does it assist humans to organize or survive that the French and the German language both exist?

      The same way some tribes learn to fish while others hunt, through necessity. French and Germanic languages, like all languages, are hybrids of languages that preceded them. They were not created intentionally.

      No it isn’t. The Jews have expressed no particular interest in ruling over the Palestinians consistently. Nor is BDS for equality.

      Actually Israelis have expressed far more macabre and sadistic interests, to rule over the eland and get rid of the Palestinians entirely. So yes, BDS is entirelyfor equality which is why you haven;t even tried to argue the point.

      Under Shaked even more of them would have the right to vote and hold government.

      No. She wants them warehoused.

      They are given citizenship and allowed to participate in the new society after they acknowledged the victory of the new society over the old.

      No, they were given citizenship and allowed to participate without any requirement that they acknowledge the victory of the new society over the old. There was never any such stipulation made so your argument is false.

    • It’s Joan Peters all over again.

      It's 19th century colonialism and orientalism all over again.

      As Chomsky points out:

      in areas where the English settled or where English is spoken today, the unwritten law in force in England was imposed. According to English law, the inhabitants of these lands didn't have a right to them because they where hunter-gatherers rather than a sedentary people. This was completely false. And many other falsifications of events took place in order to render them compatible with the law. Up until the 1970s, for example, distinguished anthropologists informed us that we should reject archeological and documentary evidence which clearly showed that these were sedentary peoples and, by their own standards, relatively advanced civilizations. On the contrary, we were to pretend that they were hunter-gatherers and that, therefore, there were few people, maybe a million north of the Rio Grande, instead of 10 million or more, which was the real figure.

      And if the question is asked why for centuries these falsifications were made, the answer is, basically, that it was a matter of establishing the principle that the people who lived there had no rights over the land, given that they simply traveled across it in order to hunt, and so on. Therefore, there was no moral or legal problem in taking their land for the use of the Europeans. As far as the peoples involved are concerned, if they had no right to the land, it did not matter who they were, or whether they came from India or some other place.


      link to chomsky.info

      Sound familiar?

    • There was migration within the Levant when the Jews started boosting the economy.

      There was no boost to the economy until the Europeans started arriving and what's more, the Palestinians were not given any piece of the actions because the immigrant Zionists imposed a policy of Hafrada - meaning segregartion.

      though Detroit wasn’t empty before and the relative decrease in American car manufacturing in Detroit has caused migration away from Detroit.

      Nor was Palestine empty before the Zionists arrived. In fact, in 1905, the Zionist founders pointed out that every inch of arable land was being used and cultivated - so much for your racist claim that it was being neglected.

      More broadly, the entire Ottoman Empire and the places that had formerly been Ottoman was where migrants came from.

      That is demonstrably false given that the population did not migrate at all. Walter Lacquer pointed out that the problem the Zionists had was that the natural rate of growth of the Palestinian population was as great as the rate of Zionist immigration from Europe.

      Your problem is that you need borders that were far stronger than the ones history shows because you are trying to defend the notion that there was some country called Palestine.

      I don't need to defend it at all. There would never have been a Mandate for Palestine has the country of Palestine not already existed. It is you that has the problem because you Zionists have tried desperately to argue that the Mandate for Palestine meant the Mandate for a jewish state.

    • They stared fixing it immediately starting from the 1880s and were doing huge work on it during the early 1920s.

      Rubbish. There were barely 8,000 Jews in Palestine at the time and only a tiny percentage of them were even immigrants, so there was no work being done until well after the 1940s.

      The citrus boom had nothing to do with any Zionist input.

      So tha's lie #1.

      Furthermore, Palestine was not a Turkish colony and there were no Turkish settlements.

      Your map shows no Turkish colonies.

      So tha's lie #2.

      I’m not sure if he is consistent on that point. He has raised it. Certainly BDS in 2 of the 3 demands takes the opposite position.

      Absolutel rubbish. You can't even be bothered to list which of the BDS demands take the opposite position because of the egg that you would have on your face.

      That's lie #3.

      I agree with you. I don’t see a difference other than
      justice = stuff speaker agrees with
      collective punishment = stuff the speaker doesn’t agree with

      It's clear you don't see the difference because as Donald has pointed out, you have no moral compas whatsoever

      I don’t know what you mean attacking nations as an “artificial construct”. All of human society including law is mostly an artificial construct.

      False again. Human society is based on the recognition that humans need to organise and exist in communities to survive.

      In any case if you want to make an argument about human rights and not national rights than don’t talk about how the Palestinians were wronged and have a natural right to rule.

      Stop with the phoney arguments and straw men. No one said anyone has a natural right to rule. The question is whether one population has the right to displace another and rule over them.

      They might have a right to greater civil rights within Israel but that’s it.

      What do you mean that's it? If they become a majority, or if they were not expelled and were a majority and voted according to those demographics, would they not have the right to hold government? Or if in the future, the arab parties managed to form a majority coalition, would they not have the right to form a government?

      This entire argument by your BDS compatriots is about about blood guilt and racial claims to land.

      Umm not, you are confusing BDS with Zionism.

      Of course they were! The Indian wars ended when the Native Americans agreed to recognise the authority of the USA government. /blockquote>

      No, the wars ended when the populatio of the Native Americans was devasteated and they could no longer resist occupation.

      They now work within the American society as part of it. Similarly the Canadian indigenous. I don’t know the details of Australia but I suspect the Australians also wouldn’t tolerate their indigenous acting fully sovereign.

      In all the cases you listed, the indigenous population are recognised as the original owners of the land and given full citizenship. There is no distinctions between any race, religion or sop called peoplehood or nationhood. In fact, in all cases, the natives are granted additional privileges not available to those of European descent.

      So you are wrong on every point.

    • I thought we were done with this kind of old colonial racism.

      That's impossible if you are a Zionist, as Zionism and colonial racism go hand in hand. Not only that, but racist colonialist Jeff contradicts himself. In this post he refers to Palestinians as a migrant population, in another he refers to them an native.

    • The areas are already fixed and the number of Palestinians in them don’t threaten the Jewish majority.

      Fixed according to whom? Israel keeps expanding those areas.

      No she does not support the continuation of military rule. You are simply making stuff up.

      Yes she does support the continuation of military rule. You are simply lying and in denial.

    • Before the Zionists got to Palestine it was a malaria ridden dirt poor Turkish colony with a migrant serf farming population from the Levant.

      So many lies it's hard to know where to begin, but JeffB is clearly channeling Jone Peters.

      Not all of Palestine had problems with malaria, but suffice to say, malaria was common in many parts of the world at the time and the Zionists did not fix the problem for another decade.

      Furthermore, Palestine was not a Turkish colony and there were no Turkish settlements. The claim that the population was a migrant population is based on the fraudulent and long since debunked thesis of Jone Peters. They were native to the land and largely land holder.

      What you are now proposing is not a universal morality but rather a situational morality based on a policy of non-reversibility.

      How so Jeff? Donald's morality is perfectly consistent with the notion that those who are not responsible for the crimes of their predecessors should not have to pay the price.

      It seem you don't understand the difference between justice and collective punishment, which is not surprise given you are such a rabid Zionist

      Neither the Jewish people who evolved into Israeli nor the Levant people who evolved into Palestinians existed as nations in the proper sense prior to Zionism.

      So what? The notion of nationhood is largely an artificial and tribal construct. International recognition of human rights is not contingent on people identifying with any nationhood.

      They raising the carrying capacity of the land by something like 400-500 undoing 1000 years of neglect and mismanagement in a decade.

      From Jone Peters to the hasbara BS that the Jews made the desert bloom. What a load of crap. Palestine was one of the most abundant and fertile areas in the region. The famous Jafa Oranges would never have been created if the land had been mismanaged. The fact that some areas were developed does not mean the existing population, which was entirely self reliant, neglected or mismanaged.

      This ties into yet another racist, solonialist and orientalist spin that that the Palestinians were too primitive and unevolved to look after themselves and that the Jews helped them to become civilized.

      You are so completely tone deaf JeffB that you have no idea how repugnant and racist you are.

      Well then if we are reversing the changes, how do we unkill the many Jews who gave their lives to malaria or damaging their their bodies forever so that future generations of Jews live in what is today an agriculturally rich environment?

      What an asinine and irrelevant line of argument!! Why don't we ask how you can make your mother unfeel the pain she went through during childbirth?

      And anyone who examines the case fairly is going to see that Israel is just another country which doesn’t get along well with an indigenous minority. Nothing unusual at all

      Yes it is, because every other western democracy who has had a shameful past with regard to the indigenous minority has taken signioficant steaps to:

      1. Acknowledge and recognize those crime
      2. Acknowledge and recognize the identity and legitimacy of these indigenous peoples and their rights.
      3. Made significant steps towards reconciliation and rectifying those injustices.

      What makes Israel usual is that:

      1. Israel denies of justified those crimes
      2. Israel denied the identity and legitimacy of these indigenous peoples and their rights.
      3. Israel has not even considered making any steps towards reconciliation and rectifying those injustices.

      None of the indigenous populations in the US, Canada or Australia were ever required to:

      1. come to terms with the existence of a new society on top of their old one. They were never 2. reduces their demands to a level the dominant society could accept and or that merges with the dominant society to become part of the new nation over a period of generations.
      3. merge with another nation becoming part of that nation over a period of generations.

      So by your own admission, Israel in entirely unusual and different because those demands are unique to Israel. in fact, Israel even demands that the indigenous population accept that their conquerors have a greater claim to the land than they do.

      Seriously Jeff, the more you try to argue your case, the deeper the hole you are digging for yourself.

    • The real problem is how bad their analogies are.

      No the real problem is the one you are dealing with because your justifications, distortions and denials are so pitiful

      The whole BDS movement is based on a few similarities that most fall apart under inspection between South Africa and Israel.

      That's odd, because Ben Gurion, Ehud Olmert and Ehud Barak, as well as a slew of Israeli ministers, not to mentions former South African prime ministers don't seem to think so. Maybe you should try your "inspection" by them and point out the errors in their ways.

      But when one tries to look at the case of South Africa and notice how truly dissimilar the two cases are then suddenly out come the curse words and insults and analogies don’t matter.

      That's an interesting argument. All those who have been responsible for acts of genocide should take a leaf out of your book and argue that what they did was not in fact genocide because they never employed gas chambers.

      I’ve tried again and again to walk through the actual history of the anti-Apartheid movement and show how the dissimilarities between the South African and Israeli case were in areas absolutely crucial to the “success” of the anti-Apartheid struggle.

      What does the anti-Apartheid movement have to do with apartheid in Israel? Are you suggesting that because the anti-Apartheid movement is not identical to the BDS movement that this somehow disproves Israel has implemented an apartheid regime?

      No wonder you have been forced to try and try again with such a failed and incoherent line of argument.

      The civil rights movement is even a worse analogy. American blacks argued forcefully to be allowed to become fully American and join American culture. If the Palestinians would do what the blacks did there would’t be an I/P conflict.

      Really? You might try explaining that to Deputy President of the Supreme Court, Justice Elon , who ruled in an elections commission case that Arab citizens merely have an equal right to recognize that Israel is the state of the Jewish people, and only the Jewish people:

      The principle that the State of Israel is the state of the Jewish people is Israel’s foundation and mission [yessoda vi-yeuda], and the principle of the equality of rights and obligations of all citizens of the State of Israel is of the State’s essence and character [mahuta ve-ofya]. The latter principle comes only to add to the former, not to modify it;there is nothing in the principle of the equality of civil rights and obligations to modify the principle that the State of Israel is the state of the Jewish people, and only the Jewish people.
      See Ben-Shalom v. Central Election Committee 1988, 272

      So please JeffB, do explain how the Palestinians are to become part of the Jewish people, seeing as nothing less would enable the Palestinians to become fully Jewish and join Jewish culture.

    • I love when the editors/contributors of MW use constant analogies to -among others-the US civil rights movement but consistently accuse Zionists of ‘whataboutism’ whenever they make their own anologies to the hypocrisy in the i/p conflict. Always legitimate when its against Zion and never legit when its defending Israel. Got it.

      I love it when Israeli apologists try to deny realities that even Israeli prime ministers have admitted in moments of candor, from Ben Gurion to Ehud Olmert and Ehud Barak to former South African prime ministers who glowingly referred to Israel as an apartheid state as early as 1961.

    • People tried to get the Jim Crow South or apartheid SA off the hook by pointing to other places which were allegedly worse. It didn’t work–that type of argument is stupid.

      So did apartheid South Africa. As Hostage pointed out a while ago,

      The very first case of apartheid that was referred to the International Court of Justice involved an illegal regime imposed upon all of the citizens of the State of Namibia by the neighboring government of South Africa in order to deny them self-determination and independence. They used the same lame-assed excuse about the occupation and the claimed the members of SWAPO were their enemies.

      See: link to un.org
      *Legal Consequences for States of the Continued Presence of South Africa in Namibia (South West Africa) notwithstanding Security Council Resolution 276 (1970)
      link to icj-cij.org

    • The UN is anti-colonial

      Colonialism is racism of the worst kind, so no one is sneaking racism into it. it's already there.

      “Illegal” in this context is endorsing racism not opposing it.

      Typical Zionist anti intellectualism at play here. Anti racism is racist according to JeffB.

      In most countries the government is considered eligible to determine what is “legal” or “illegal”

      You are such a crack pot. Apartheid was legal in South Africa. Did that make it legitimate?

      And every member of the UN is subject to criticism of it's human rights record by the UN. The UN just issued a scathing report about the US and has criticized Australia too for it's treatment of asylum seekers.

    • She wants 1 man, 1 vote in any area subject to Israeli law.

      She also supports the ethnic cleansing of areas to make those areas larger and persevere a Jewish majority.

      In areas not subject to Israeli law, the inhabitants get to decide amongst themselves with essentially no interference by Israel how they choose to decide on what laws they want

      Rubbish. She supports the occupation, which means that those areas are also subject to Israeli laws exclusively aimed at non Jews. So like you, she supports apartheid.

    • You mean she is going to get worse .Or better, in your view , as in a more finely tuned racist and bigot.

      You took the words right out of my mouth Amigo.

Showing comments 15115 - 15101
Page: