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Total number of comments: 15172 (since 2009-07-30 21:28:30)


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  • At last a leader, Obama fingers 'Israeli interest' in war
    • Googling “Tunnel from Gaza to Israel” and smuggling comes up with 2-3 tunnels that they planned to use to smuggle terrorists or bombs into Israel.

      Planned according to whom? Oh that's right, the centre for lies and BS aka the Israeli MFA.

      You see, you're a calssic example fo the Israeli feedback loop. Israle blows up a tunnel becasue they claim it was used to smuggle weapons and kidnap soldiers. The convenient thing being that becasue the tunnel is now blown up, there is no evidence to support or refute Israel's claims.

      I’ve never heard of the Palestinians having a smuggling tunnel into Israel.

      Just like you never heard of the Peace Road Map right?

      Last year, Israeli financial newspaper Calcalist quoted Egyptian media as saying that the demand for Israeli products was growing in the northern Sinai. According to the article, Gazans have been smuggling Israeli goods outbound from the Gaza tunnels and into Egypt, where customers are demanding higher-quality Israeli goods - even when they are more expensive than local products. Vendors say that the Israeli products are in high demand. In the past they would erase the "Made in Israel" logos, but they no longer do, as it is a selling point.
      link to

      'Tunnels being used to smuggle goods out of Gaza'
      link to

      The goods in question were or course among those officially banned by Israel, so the only way they got into Gaza in the firs place was via tunnels. Why would the Egyptians request such gods from Gaza if they came from the Sinai to begin with?

      You've been a joke on this forum Fred. Go back to your hasbra mother ship and get a tune up.

    • Seriously, does a smuggling tunnel from Gaza into Israel make any sense?

      LOL. It has been widely reported that Hamas smuggles goods from Israel as well as Egypt.

      Do you actually read what you write?

      Do you read what the MFA drip feeds you?

      As for moving the soldiers or setting up an ambush, they knew where the mouth of the tunnel was, they knew it was a tunnel into Israel, from its location. They wouldn’t know exactly where it was going to come out, or when.

      LOL. How did they know then that the tunnel was going to be used to kidnap Israeli soldiers if they didn't know where it was going to exit?

      Do you actually read what you write?

    • Let’s see, the elections were November the 4th. On that day the Israelis destroyed a cross-border tunnel like the one that the Palestinians used to capture Gilad Shalit.

      Correction. That's the Israeli government version, whcih we know is complete BS.

      As Wikileaks revealed, for months prior to this unprovoked attack by Israel, the Israeli leaders were becomming increasingly anxious that the ceasefire was benefitting Hamas politically. The problem was that Hamas were sticking to the ceasefire very strictly and this presented multiple problems for the Israelis:

      1. The longer the ceasefire lasted, the more legitimate Hamas was becomming, whic would lead to Israel being pressured to deal with Hamas diplomatically.
      2. The ceasefire was due to expire in December. Hamas would have agreed to a continuation whereas Israel did not want it to continue, but of course, this would have looked bad PR wise. Israel needed a pretext for rejecting the ceasefire without appearing to the world that they didn't want peace.

      Thus, Israel's leaders decided that a military option was necessary to put and end to all the peace.

      Their justification was that there was no use for the tunnel other than to try to capture Israeli soldiers on the Israeli side of the Israel-Gaza border.

      This was debunked by Jimmy Carter and Uri Avnery. Carter pointd ou that the tunnel was used for smuggling goods into Gaza. Avnery pointed out the monmental absurdity in Israel's claims. If the tunnel was indeed intended to kidnap Israeli soldiers stationed on the border, then they could have:

      1) Moved teh soldiers out fo harms way
      2)) Set up am ambush at the tunnel entrance in the Israeli side and caught Hamas red handed

      Israel simply came up with a BS argument to justify a raid on Gaza that they knew would provoke a response, thereby providing the pretext for ending the ceasefire.

      They “started it” in the same way a cop “starts it” if he shoots someone pointing a gun at him before the guy has a chance to fire.

      Yeah same old Zionist argument, like killing babies in case they grow up to be terrorists.

      Or are you saying that digging that tunnel into Israel wasn’t a hostile act?

      The hostile act was the fact that Israel agreed to lift the blockade as part of the ceasefire but never lifted it. That left Hamas no option but to use tunnels to continue to smuggle gods into Gaza.

    • With Cast Lead it was they’re last chance to retaliate against Hamas before a Democrat who looked likely to be less friendly to Israel than most Presidents (look at his preacher’s anti-Semitism) took over in Washington.

      Correction Fred. Israel chose the day of the US elections to break 4 month ceasefire - without any reason or justification other than to start a war, and then ended it days before the inauguration.

    • The mark of a great politician (not to be confused with statesmen).

      Bibbi is neither of those.

      Cheer up Oleg. I'm sure you but jobs will find a reason to start a war soon enough.

  • Netanyahu says, You also refused to bomb Auschwitz
    • No. The threat is that Iran, a country that refers to Israel as a “cancerous tumor that must be removed” will have Nuclear ICBM’s aimed at Israel. Not good.

      Rubbish. It's a pitty you pin headed hasbrats don't actually read what your leaders have said.

      Netenyahu admitted to Goldberg that the problem with Iran having nukes is not that Iran would use them, but that:

      1. It would lead to a brain drain in Israel, as educated and skilled Israelis migrated to other states
      2. It would limit Israel's ability to operate with impunity against Hamas and Hezbollah. In fact, when it looked like the Russians were about to sell Israel the S300 anti aircraft missiles, the head of the IAF complained that such weapons (whcih are defensive only) woudl limit ISrael ability to operate in the region.

      Israel has never liked the idea of a fair fight.

      Ehud Barak has admitted that would not be a threat even if Iran had nukes. Tzipi Livni has said the same thing.

      Daniel Peltka from the AEI (ie. Likud Central in the US) said the greatest danger is not that Iran would use it's nukes, but that it would not and therefore prove itself to be a rational actor on the world stage.

      The head of the Joint Chiefs testified before the Senate recently that Iran's leaders are rational actors.

      Of course, the fact that Israel has Nuclear ICBM’s aimed at Iran (including nuclear armed submarines parked off the coast of Iran) doesn't seem to bother you. That's the kind of moral tunnel vision we've come to expect from ethnocentric supremacists.

    • Great find American.

      So these letters, like Bibbi's 3 thousand year old ring that he also keeps in his desk, are fake or at the very least, being misrepresented by him.

      This guy has to be one of the mist devious, cynical and disturbed people on the planet.

    • God, man, what would happen if you ran into a Bernie Madoff. You’d be bankrupt before you knew it.

      That's hillarious Mooser. Jonathan Pollard would probably have Krauss offering to keep his cell warm so that he could just visit his family for the weekend.

    • Then Netanyahu got out copies of two letters he said he keeps in his desk..

      Has anyone noticed how every time Netenyhu wants to make a political point, he conveniently has something in his desk to act as a prop?

    • I admit I was deeply moved

      Which sugegsts you must be deeply disturbed. You should have been sickened by his exploitation of that tragedy for political gain.

      Still, it’s important to remember that a very significant part of the Israeli defence establishment is against a war.

      The problem is that the ISraelis elected this socipath to office, not the Israeli defence establishment.

      But it would be de-stabilizing for the region because the threat isn’t Iran sending a nuclear missile.

      No, the threat is that Israel would lose it's ovwewhelming nuclear wepoans advantage and will no longer be able to act with impunity - and like you, the Israeli government can't tolerate that outcome.

    • "Amazingly, some people refuse to acknowledge that Iran's goal is to develop nuclear weapons. You see, Iran claims that it's enriching uranium to develop medical research. Yeah-- right,"

      Including your own intelligence agencies douche bag. Truly amazing.

  • Blasting Obama as 'blurred,' McConnell assures Israel lobby that bipartisan Congress will authorize 'overwhelming force' against Iran
    • South Africans did not have nukes Woody. They had a nuclear wepoans program but produced none.

    • I’ve looked it up. Apparently the same tech that gets you 20% enriched uranium gets you 90% enriched uranium.

      Barry's piece is full of obfuscation and BS. 

      I won't get into all the flaws in his piece, but the bottom line is that the gun type nuke he refers to is a complete waste of time unless you have a massive bomber to drop it. The Nagasaki bomb was the size of a car and could never be delivered by a missile.

      Israel would see any such bomber long before it got anywhere bear Israel and shoot it down.

       The tough part isn’t getting 90% instead of 20%, its getting the uranium into a form that the centrifuges can handle at all

      The tough part is not even the enrichment, it is the implosion/detonation decide and delivery systems. An implosion system is very complicated and requires thousands if tests using depleted uranium - and no, such tests cannot take place us a steel containment vessel.

      I've worked at a nuclear facility as a nuclear engineer. The facility had 2 research reactors - one that used 20% enriched fuel and the other a much lower. Only the 20% fuel reactor was used for medical isotope production, as only 20% U235 can produce sufficient neutron flux - so Barry is the one creating a smokescreen when he argues that there are many types of research reactors.

      In fact the TNR in Iran was built by the US and was originally a TRIGA type reactor - the one that uses near weapons grade fuel.   The Iranians decided after the revolution that they didn't need a reactor that used such highly enriched fuel, so they converted into a 20% fuel reactor.

      That's hardly consistent with a regime that wants to produce nukes.

    • Irrelevant. No one but the superpowers coudl possibly deliver a gun type nuke.

    • Israel has threatened to use it's nukes a number of of times. Most infamously was in 1973, when they threatened to go nuclear unless Nixon sent arms ro them.

    • You have got to love the logic.

      “If Iran was building a bomb, they wouldn’t let anyone see it.
      No-one can see an Iranian bomb – ergo – they must be building one.”


      Or put another way. The fact we haven't found it proves they are hiding it.

    • War is justified, but not a good idea.

      War is neither justified nor a good idea. Iran are not even tyign o produce nukes, so unless you n come up wit another very compellin reason to go to war, there is no justification.

      You're simply revealing yourselfto be an extremist and a crazed one at that.

    • I just don’t believe in burying my head in the sand about the fact that they are going for nukes and that there is at least some chance they will use them.

      It's not a fact. The fact i they they are NOT going for nukes, which is what the US and ISraeli intelligence community have concluded.

      The only one burrying their head in the sand is you, while you refuse to accept the evidence and base your argument purely on hysteria, fear and irrationality.

    • They are trying to produce nukes.

      For the umpteenth time dufus, they are NOT trying to produce them - which is the conclusion US and Israeli intelligence have both come to.

      So why do you keep repeating this BS? Is your Zionist brain impervious to facts and evidence?

      Is there any difference in the technology needed to produce weapons grade uranium and the tech to produce 20% enriched uranium, or is it just a question of running the centrifuges longer?

      Yes and yes. The centrifuge cascades need to be configured differently and there are a number of technical issues to overcome, not least of which is to stop heavy metal impurities like molybdenum from destroying the centrifuges.

      It's a big country, lots of places to hide, and they are still playing for time and limiting where they let the IAEA look.

      An enrichment plant is not a meth lab whee you can hide it in a garage. They require significant infrastrucure to operate. There is no way they could keep these places secret with the IAEA there 24/7.

      Now they are talking about maybe letting them look a few more places. They are just playing for time.

      No, they are playing for more guarantees that they will not be attacked and that sacntions will be lifted.

    • Fredblogs is a garden variety Zionist sociopath. He pretends like he doesn;t want a war with Iran, but rejects every logical reason and evidence for why war with Iran is unjustified.

    • Straight from the horse’s mouth.

      And let etrasnlate what the horse (who BTW has pledged allegiance to US policy on Iran in return for the job) actually said.

      “The IAEA ‘is unable to provide credible assurance about the absence of undeclared nuclear material and activities in Iran, and therefore to conclude that all nuclear material in Iran is in peaceful activities,’ he added.”

      In other words, the political whore Amano is saying he cannot provide credible assurance that somethign he has no evidence exists does not exist. The fact is that he has no evidence undeclared material exists, and has no reason to believe it does, but is playing politics.

      “Since the IAEA’s previous report in November, Amano said Iran has tripled monthly production of uranium refined to a fissile concentration of 20 percent – well above the level usually needed to run nuclear power plants.”

      He's right, but what he is saying is entirely above board. 20% is higher what is needed to run nuclear power plants, but it is the enrichment required to run a civlian research reactor to produce medical isotopes. And BTW. All of that enriched uranium, every gram, that is produced by the enrichment facilities is 100% accounted for by the IAEA.

      BTW, the fac that Iran has tripled monthly production of uranium refined to 20 percent is not in any way illegal, nor does it suggest it is beyond Iran's legitimate needs.

    • Stop being so coy Fred, you clearly want a war more than anyone. If you had any interest in avoiding such a war, you wouldn't be trying so desperately to ignore evidence and ample reports that debunk the aggelations Iran is producing nukes.

      No, you want it to be true, which means you would rather there be a war based on spurious allegations than peace based on facts.

    • LOL. Yeah, you are welcome to search your teenager’s room as well except for the parts he doesn’t want you to see, you know, like where he keeps his stash. Hey, maybe you can even search all of it, now that he’s moved anything incriminating elsewhere..

      Stop trolling Fred.

      First you're complaining that the IAEA is not being given access to sight they have no business visiting, and then when the Iraniasn agree to give them access, it's still not good enough because they are obviously trying to hide something.

      On the two previous visits to Parchin, the IAEA were given free reign to look anywhere they wanted. The US will have their satellites watching every stone on the sight, so they will detect if anythnig is hidden.

      Just admit it. You want a war with Americans dying just to keep your apartheis state feeling a little more secure.

    • News today that they are going to allow at least some inspection of the Parchin base.

      Not only that, but notice that this is not the first time the IAEA has been allowed to inspect Parchin? They were allowed to inspect it twice in 2005.

    • Except that Iran “already has sufficient enriched uranium to power the reactor for more than five years and has not even installed the equipment necessary to manufacture fuel elements” out of the enriched material.

      Sorry, but this link is completely BS. The headline that Iran is enriching uranium closer to nuclear weapons grade is hysteria, becasue the IAEA has never accused Iran of producing nukes.

      Scondly, Iran has indeed produced it's own fuel elements for the TNR reactor, so Hague is lying.

      Thirdly, the story is contradictory. How can Iran have enough fuel to powerthe research reactor for 5 years if, according to the IAEA, they have only just started enriching at Fordo?

      No, the medical angle is just an excuse.

      No it's not and you are simply an ignoramus. Iran, Brail and Turkey tried tro broker a deal in 2009 to have the fuel supplied to them by other states and the US rejected the offer, so Iran decided to produce it themselves.

      They aren’t doing what they need to use it for medical reasons and they are making far more than they would need, even if they did?

      See above. The claim they are making far more than they would need is BS.

      If you can enrich to 20%, you have already enriched it by a factor of 30. Another factor of 4.5 and you have weapons grade uranium.

      Stupid argument. Iran have never come close to entiching to 90% and indeed, it has been revealed that they have serious technicla difficulties in even achieving 20%.

      Stick to what you know Fred, which is clearly very little.

    • The IAEA says the Iranians aren’t letting them inspect the nuclear facilities. Should we believe the IAEA, or you?

      Stop lying Fred, you are over your head on this topic. The IAEA aren't even suggesting that Parchin is a nuclear facility.

      The phony denials are Iran’s and yours.

      And the Mossad's and the US intelligence communty's. We all agree Iran is not producing nuclear wepoans.

      I don’t have any knowledge that the Mossad and U.S. intelligence agencies are saying Iran isn’t going for nukes.

      Then educate yourself and stop trolling.

      "Israel believes Iran itself has not yet decided whether to make a nuclear bomb, according to intelligence assessment to be presented later this week to U.S. Joint Chief of Staff [Martin] Dempsey."
      link to


      U.S. Agencies See No Move by Iran to Build a Bomb
      link to

      If the U.S. agencies are saying it, I’d have to put that down to not wanting to make the same mistake they make in Iraq.

      Yes it wold be a mistake to make false claims and repeat lies.

      So instead they are erring so far the other way that they can’t see what’s plain as day.

      Right Fred, all 16 US inteligence agencies can't see what you can. How does that explain why the Mossad can't also see it?

      Iran’s “civil” nuclear program is Iran’s nuclear weapons program. They are using the first to support the second.

      Rubbish. Even the Mossad admits there isn't one.

      They are making highly enriched uranium (20% U-235) which is higher than nuclear power plants require.

      But not higher than necessary for their research reactor which produces medical isotopes.

      They are also refusing to allow IAEA inspectors to inspect all their nuclear facilities.

      Rubbish. They denied access to military facilities, which the IAEA have no right to inspect anyway.

       All phony denials aside, they’re going for nuclear weapons.

      Why would the Mossad and all 16 US intelligence agencies indulge in phony denials?

  • Red flags over Gaza: Palestinian leftists rally for Hana Shalabi
    • The left on the same rally with the Jihadists.

      Israel is giving support, financing and trasingin for Jihadists against Iran. Does that warm your heart too?

  • 'We are you and you are us,' Netanyahu says-- but Obama thumbs him with talk of Palestinians and diplomacy
    • gag me with a spoon.

      Yes, We are you, and you are us. We’re together., except when we're not.

      We're not when we adopt a policy of not telling you when we plan to attack Iran, but we
      are when we need your weapons and planes and bunker busters and jet fuel and to come to our rescue when we find ourselves over our heads.

    • Israel has the sovereign right to make a final decision. My supreme responsibility as Prime Minister of Israel is to ensure that Israel remains the master of its fate

      In other words, you are not us and we are not you.

  • Opposing boycott, Walzer shares stage with speakers known for attacking Islam
    • Well Hamas is “a hateful terrorist organization”, so I don’t know what to quibble with there.

      What terrorist organiAtion does Waltzer belong to Krauss?

  • California congresswoman: 'Some would call that apartheid'
    • Since the Palestinians haven’t ended their violence, we aren’t even at phase 1

      Look Fred, a day ago you didn't even know what the Road Map was, now you're trying to tell me what the Quartet has determined? You Zionists have no shame.

      Israel SIGNED and RATIFIED the Road Map for Peace, and that agreement (remember, a signed and ratified document) committed Israel to freeze all settlement construction right away, not 8 years later.

      Israel signed it, Israel ratified it, and then Israel immediately reneged on it.

      The Road Map is divided into three Phases, and nobody has a right to down-tools WITHIN A PHASE for any reason. Or, put another way: even if the other side *is* dragging its feet all you can do is put your head down and power on to the end of Phase I, at which point you refuse to go to the next Phase until the other dude has caught up to you.

      This is how it was written: "In each phase, the parties are expected to perform their obligations in parallel, unless otherwise indicated."

      Got that?

      OK, having got that then we can make sense of what **is** in Phase I.

      And what we see is this:

      "Palestinian leadership issues unequivocal statement reiterating Israel’s right to exist in peace and security and calling for an immediate and unconditional ceasefire to end armed activity and all acts of violence against Israelis anywhere. All official Palestinian institutions end incitement against Israel."

      That "Palestinian leadership" is The PLO/PA i.e. it is Abbas And His Bunch. It most definitely is not Hamas, nor it is Islamic Jihad.

      Or, in short: so long as Abbas And His Bunch are committed to non-violence then that provision has been fulfilled.

      Q: Why?
      A: Because the only group recognized as the "Palestinian leadership" is Abbas And His Bunch.

      But what about Israel?
      "Israel also freezes all settlement activity, consistent with the Mitchell report."
      "GOI takes no actions undermining trust, including deportations, attacks on civilians; confiscation and/or demolition of Palestinian homes and property, as a punitive measure or to facilitate Israeli construction"
      "GOI immediately dismantles settlement outposts erected since March 2001"
      "Consistent with the Mitchell Report, GOI freezes all settlement activity (including natural growth of settlements)."

      Not much room to maneouvre there, Fred......

      Abbas has carried out all of his obligations under Phase I of the Road Map. Every last one of them. To. The. Letter.

      The Quartet makes that call, and the Quartet is exceptionally happy with the progress that Abbas and Faayad have made in the West Bank, and the Quartet has not the slihtest complaint about how Abbas And His Gang have fullfilled all of their obligations under the Road Map.

      He is now waiting for Netanyahu to pull his finger out i.e. to do what he has to do in order to join Abbas up on the podium, at which point *both* Abbas and Bibi procede to Phase II, which is when negotiations take place.

      Netanyahu is having none of it. He has downed his tools without carrying out A Single One Of His Tasks in Phase I and, furthermore, he is insisting that he doesn't have to carry them out i.e. he is demanding that everyone proceed immediately to the final status negotiations.

      So dispute the fact that Bibi is in complete and utter violation of *ALL* of his Road Map committments, he still has the chutzpah to demand his prize. And what is that prize? It is to be able to lock Abbas into a tent while the IDF bulldozers continue to tear down everything that is around it.

      The Israeli position is simply beyond chutzpah. It is obscene, Fred, and made worse by the utter refusal of people like you to pull your head out of the sand and stare that obscenity in the face.

      When the Israelis did stop the settlement expansion anyway for 10 months, the Palestinians didn’t stop the violence and they waited 9.5 months before sitting down for peace talks, then walked away when the deadline for settlement freeze wasn’t extended.

      Rubbish. You are insisting that Abbas must come to the negotiating table *even* *though* Israel has not even done *one* of the things that it committed itself to doing when it signed that Road Map For Peace. Abbas would be crazy to do that, for reasons that should be obvious even to you i.e. if Israel has a "right" to unilaterally "rewrite" agreements then no agreement that bears Israel's signature is worth the paper that it is written on.

      Think about it: if Abbas agrees to that then he is acknowledging that Israel has a "right" to renege on any agreement that it signs and ratifies.

      How seriously would you take an offer by a thief to stop stealing from you temporarily, knowing that once the time was up, he fully inetnded to continue stealing? Netenyahu made a commitement to toa moratorium (which he never observed anyway) with the promise that he would go back to buildign settlement no matter what the outcome of the talks.

    • Re: road-map requiring stop building: link?

      Phase I (as early as May 2003): End to Palestinian violence; Palestinian political reform; Israeli withdrawal from Palestinian cities and freeze on settlement expansion; Palestinian elections.

      Phase II (as early as June-Dec 2003): International Conference to support Palestinian economic recovery and launch a process, leading to establishment of an independent Palestinian state with provisional borders; revival of multilateral engagement on issues including regional water resources, environment, economic development, refugees, and arms control issues; Arab states restore pre-intifada links to Israel (trade offices, etc.).

      Phase III (as early as 2004-2005): second international conference; permanent status agreement and end of conflict; agreement on final borders, clarification of the highly controversial question of the fate of Jerusalem, refugees and settlements; Arab state to agree to peace deals with Israel.

      link to

      I don't lie.

      You're a Zionist so lying is unavoidable for you.

    • I’m not in favor of expanding the settlements.

      Who cares? You elected a government that is.

      Of course I don’t think the expansion of the settlements is a good reason for the Palestinians not to join peace talks.

      Actualy it's a very good reason because the peace talks are based on teh Road Map of 2002 what Israel signed and ratified. Under that agreement, Israel is supposed to STOP all settlement building before peade talks are to commence.

      I am anti-BDS, pro-all-nonviolent resistance, pro 2 state solution.

      In other words, more of the same. You are all for Israel gettin away with murder.

      Obviously I can’t tell you why I’m being censored, because if I tried, I’d be censored.

      Nakba denial is censored. Stop lying and you won't be censored.

    • No. The West Bank and Gaza are not part of Israel.

      They are according to Israel. Look at any Isreli map of Israel and they are indeed included.

      If Mexico attacked the U.S. and the U.S. occupied them we wouldn’t let them vote in our elections.

      But Isral atatecked the Palestinians, stolen their land and occupied them and still won't let them vote.

      The Palestinians don’t get to vote because they aren’t part of Israel.

      Just the land they happne to be living on.

      Even in East Jerusalem, they were offered the chance to become citizens (and therefore get the vote), but they chose to be resident aliens instead of citizens.

      False, but go on...

  • Young activist disrupts AIPAC panel about 'Israel on Campus'
    • Hillel, AIPAC, Stand With Us, and The David Project have no obligation to provide everyone who puts “Jewish” in the name of their organization with a platform.

      Actually, they do when they profess to represent Jews.

    • Liza is big on screeching her views but will not dialogue or give someone a chance to ask the questions.

      I love the way you invert reality ProusdFascist777.

      She made it clear that she was denied a chance to participate at Hillel, not the other way around.

  • Ahmed Moor in WaPo: Harvard One State conference 'informed by the uncontroversial view that all people are created equal'
  • In 45 minutes with Obama, Goldberg asks repeatedly about Iran, nothing about Palestinians
    • I’m no fan of Goldberg, but what I was getting at are the consequences to the arms race that Obama spoke of in the interview.

      Israel started the arms race long ago, and has tried to maintain it's position as the only horse in the race.

      Who do you want to blame for the 60 billion arms de to Saudi Arabia? Iran?

  • The Israeli case for war in 'The New York Times'
    • This is looking like the big push. They are openly playing their trump card: “Crazy Israel.”

      Which is ironic give the war party's line that Iran is run by the mad mullahs.

  • Will the US act as Israel's proxy against Iran?
    • Back in 2006 the Iranian regime issued a fatwa that applauded the use of nuclear weapons. Today their fatwa stands against.

      False. The only person with the authority to speak on behalf if the Ieanian regime is the Ayatollah Ali Khamenei.

      Quoting some obscure cleric with no authority is like citing Avigdor Lieberman (before he became FM) as a spokesman for Israel.

      So unless you can produce any such statement from him supporting the use of nukes, you are lying.

    • You saying that Khamenei can’t be trusted because “[f]atwas can be changed” makes you a bigot.

      Good point Woody, and his belief that Iran cannot be trusted with nukes was not based on his opinion of Tehran's politics, but their religious extremism.

    • Did i ever said that i think that US needs to go to war or
      that Israel needs to attack Iran?

      You said that Iranian immunity was the main problem, so clearly you suport an attack on Iran or at the very least, Israel having the option - that makes you somewhat of a scycopath.

      Nor did you answer the qustion as to whether you think Israle having nukes is a good thing

    • The moment they get nukes that can be effectively deployed the regime becomes more or less immune the risks of an attack on them begins to outweigh the benefits .North Korea is a good example.
      Like i stated before that is the main concern.

      Like I said, you are on the same page as the Netenyahu government in this regard. You regard the possobility of Iran being immune to attack frm Israel as "the main concern", becasue you want Israel to have hat option - while Israel coninues to enjoy immnity.

      It just goes to prove that there is no such thing as a liberla Zionist.

      Even with that in place the world almost ended a few times during the Cold War.


      I get it that people around here really don't like the US and Israel.

      Not their behavior or their policies no. Most people don't like empires, racism apartheid and colonialism.

      But how from that they make the logical leap and claim that Iran are the good guys in this story.

      It's not about Iran being the good guys. If you are remotely concerned with facts and truth, then you would conclude Iran is not producing nukes and that the Israel's push to attack Ian is based on lies and a false premise.

      Do you support such wars Oleg?

      That it's all lies and they don't develop nukes.

      It IS all lies. That's why all 16 US intelligence agencies and the Mossad agree there are no nukes being produced by Iran.

      That even if they do then it's a good thing that this politically explosive region the middle east get's to have it's own Cold War style Nuclear confrontation.

      Again, there was never a Cold War style Nuclear confrontation. Teh Cold War was notable becasue of the absecene of Nuclear confrontation.

      How can this be a good thing?

      How can that be worse than a war?

    • No the question you should be asking is : Do i want to see
      Cold War style Nuclear confrontation in the Middle East?

      No it's not the question he should be asking, it's the question you prefer to answer.  it's no surprise that you haven't the honesty to answer it.

      The reason you want the question reframed is blatantly obvious. There was no nuclear confrontation during the Cold War, the reason being that both aides had nukes - and like the Likudniks in power, you can't bear to see the Israelis hands tied.

      The only time nukes were ever used was when the US was a nuclear hegemon and you simply want Israel to remain the sole nuclear power in the region.

      You have quite a sick and sadistic mind.

    • February 29, 2012 - 1:21 pm Reply
      There is no hard evidence to back up Israels claims that Iran is pursuing or has a nuclear weapons program. No hard evidence.

      There's no evidence at all. Had there been any, Panetta would not have had the confidence to stare that the Iranians are not building nukes.

    • Israel has nukes, too, but it prefers routinely to use the Holocaust to blackmail the surrounding countries and the US while keeping their people living in a real Orwellian society.

      Actually, Eljay, Israel routinely uses it's nukes for blackmail.

      During the 1973's Yom Kippur War Israel was almost overwhelmed by Arab forces. Prime Minister Golda Meir authorized a nuclear alert, ordering 13 atomic bombs be prepared for missiles and aircraft. Israeli Ambassador to the U.S. Simha Dinitz threatened “very serious conclusions" if there was not an immediate airlift of supplies.[9] This forced U.S. President Richard Nixon to make emergency airlifts of state of the art military supplies to Israel.[10][11]

      Seymour Hersh documents in detail in his book The Samson Option, which describes Israel’s strategy of massive nuclear retaliation against “enemy” nations should its existence as a Jewish state be jeopardized through military attack. Israeli leaders created the term in the mid-1960s, inspired by the Biblical figure Samson, who destroyed a Philistine temple, killing himself and thousands of Philistine enemies. [1][2]

      The nuclear blackmail was used by Israel to prevent the SOciets intervening militarily on behalf of Arab nations.[13] Obviously an Israeli nuclear attack on Russia by the United States’ great ally Israel would result in Russia sending thousands of nuclear weapons towards the U.S. and the U.S. responding in kind.

      Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir, said "If left to its own Israel will have no choice but to fall back on a riskier defense which will endanger itself and the world at large... To enable Israel to abstain from dependence on nuclear arms calls for $2 to 3 billion per year in U.S. aid."[17]

      Ariel Sharon said things like "We are much more important than (Americans) think. We can take the middle east with us whenever we go" [19] and "Arabs may have the oil, but we have the matches."[20]

      Former Israeli Foreign Minister Shimon Peres has admitted that nuclear weapons are used by Israel for “compellent purposes” - i.e., forcing others to accept Israeli political demands.[28] In 1998 Peres was quoted as saying, "We have built a nuclear option, not in order to have a Hiroshima, but to have an Oslo," referring to imposing a settlement on the Palestinians.[29]

      Israeli Israel Shahak wrote in 1997: "Israel clearly prepares itself to seek overtly a hegemony over the entire Middle East...without hesitating to use for the purpose all means available, including nuclear ones."[33] Zeev Schiff opined in 1998 that "Off-the-cuff Israeli nuclear threats have become a problem."[34] In 2003 David Hirst noted that “The threatening of wild, irrational violence, in response to political pressure, has been an Israeli impulse from the very earliest days” and called Israel a candidate for “the role of 'nuclear-crazy' state.”[35]

      And as Martin Van Creveld, a professor of military history at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem, said: "Most European capitals are targets for our air force....We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under." [38]

      So as you can see Eljay, Israel has used it's nukes gratuitously for blackmail.

    • What if it does and the war get’s nuclear what then?

      It won't. Nukes are useless and impractical.

      But this question reveals your real concern. If a war goes nukes, you want to be sure that only Israel has them so that Israel is spared, even if the other states are not.

      Are you sure it’s a good thing North Korea has those weapons?

      Have they been attacked or invaded?

      Knowing what you probably know about the regime, it’s rhetoric , it’s regional aspirations, it’s treatment of women, sexual minorities it’s stand on the human rights issues and so own.

      What regional aspirations Oleg? They have not invaded or attacked anyone in 270 years. What are they waitign for?

      As for their treatment of women, sexual minorities, as we to believe that bombign the country will improve the plight of those groups?

      Speaking of rhetoric, Netentyahu recently proclaimed "Death to all Arabs". Doesn't that put him in the same league as Iran's leaders? Is it therefore a good idea to let such a regime is allowed to have nukes?

    • Israel and the US are worst then the Ayatollahs regime
      therefore i will side with them and if turns out that they are building
      nukes than it’s their business , after all i live far far away.

      Nice ad hominem. How about readin what Annie said, or does sticking to the truth make your job of creating a counter argument too difficult?

      BTW. Did you find that evidence that Iran is producing nukes yet?

    • A nuclear arms race will begin when neighboring stated such as Turkey and South Arabia which are the main contenders with Iran over influence
      in the region will launch their own programs.

      Israle already started the arms race. The problem with Irael is that they hate for anyone else to be able to compete in it.

      Israel has no interest in Iran. You are forgetting that the 2 states had a very good relationship before the Islamic revolution.

      Israel tends to have very good relationships with US sponsored tyrants and dictators.

      Iran’s main business is with his neighbors.

      Which it contionues to maintain as enermies, in spite of he Arab Peace Initiative, which offers peace and mutual recognition.

    • Fatwas can be changed Annie

      And the US could turn around tomorriow and declare Israel a a threat to it's existence and decide to nuke it. The King's Tporah could become law in Israel. Anything is possible, the reality is that Iran's superme leader stated that nukes are imcompatible with Islam, so it's more than a tempoarty fatwa.

      Are ther e any other non sequitirs you'd like to add?

    • Tell me Annie do you want Iranians to achieve Nuclear weapons ?
      Do you think it’s a good idea ?

      Tell me Oleg, do you want to continue beating your wife? I have no evidence that you do, btu I just thought I'd ask.

      Do you genuinely believe that they are not trying to create such weapons ?

      Both the US and Israeli intelligence community agree Iran is not producing nukes. So what evidence do you have that they don't which makes you so much more sure that they are?

      I am serious here it’s interesting what goes in your mind on this issue. Because whatever it is, it is certainly not facts or evience.

  • Ten reasons why AIPAC is so dangerous
    • It appears Mondoweiss has been assigned a new hasbara associate.

      He's made such a monumental fool of himself on Steven Walt's blog that he's decided to sell his Hasbra here. As has been explained to him countless times, and as Hostage originally posted here:

      the reference to “historical connection”, was concocted to downplay the fact that the Zionists lack any legal standing to assert a claim to the territory of Palestine during the Post-WWI peace conferences at Versailles and San Remo. The Principle Allied Powers decided there were no bases for a legal entitlement, so Lord Balfour suggested that some polite words about the “historical connection” of the Jewish people be added to the Mandate instead. The travaux préparatoires of the British Foreign Office Committee that was tasked with drafting the Mandate reveal that the Allies did not consider the historical connection as a basis for any Jewish claim:

      “It was agreed that they had no claim, whatever might be done for them on sentimental grounds; further that all that was necessary was to make room for Zionists in Palestine, not that they should turn “it”, that is the whole country, into their home.

      – See PRO FO 371/5245, cited in Doreen Ingrams, Palestine Papers 1917-1922: Seeds of Conflict, George Brazziler, 1972, pages 99-100

      The General Assembly resolution that you cited not only excluded the bulk of Judea and Samaria from the Jewish state, it prohibited the inhabitants of the Jewish state from obtaining citizenship and moving there:
      no Arab residing in the area of the proposed Arab State shall have the right to opt for citizenship in the proposed Jewish State and no Jew residing in the proposed Jewish State shall have the right to opt for citizenship in the proposed Arab State.
      — United Nations General Assembly Resolution 181, November 29, 1947, Chapter 3: Citizenship, International Conventions and Financial Obligations

    • t would be nice to see the same critics of AIPAC calling on the Palestinians and their supporters to recognize and then make space for Jewish legitimate rights and history.

      It might be nice if there was any legal relevance to such a claim in terms of Israel and it's legitmacy or creation.

  • Gorenberg on why one state is a non-starter: Jews would have to pay higher taxes or receive fewer services
    • The thesis seems to be: “the denial of human rights must be accepted, otherwise the privileged class would be inconvenienced.”


      So what is refereed to as the destruction of Israel is the the denial of provelage. And giving up that privelage and entitlement is what is referred to as commiting suicide.

    • Clearly paying higher taxes or receiving fewer services is tantamount to the destruction of Israel.

  • Dershowitz wants MJ Rosenberg fired for daring to stop Iran war push
    • You're an inspiration MJ.

      Dersh is obviously scared of you because you:

      1. know your stuff
      2. have insider knowledge of the workings of AIPAC

      Keep up the great work!!

    • Yes, and it has also held Holocaust denial conferences, so who really cares what they have to say?

      Except when you want to cite the false accusation that they called for Israel to be wiped off the map.

    • An Iranian nuke would set off an arms race in the Middle East. It is the height of naivete to suggest that things would be OK if Iran got a nuke, and I’m saying that as someone who opposes an attack.

      The latest NIE (all 16 US intelligence agencies) and Mossad agree Iran is not producing nukes. It is therefore the height of dishonesty to keep talking as though Iran's pursuit of a nuke is a foregone conclusion.

      But then, that's what we've come to expect from you isn't it?

  • Judge strikes down lawsuit against Olympia Co-op boycott of Israeli goods
    • Not bad for a cult movement hey?

      I hope this sets a fecal precedent, though I expect Dershowitz will get involved if the implications were that far reaching.

  • Iran's Oscar win reveals Israeli movie-goers to be brainwashed bumpkins
    • @dahoit: have you tried seeing a psychiatrist?

      Are you offering to recommend one Mayhem? One of many you've seen?

    • I've spoken out against war with Iran many times.

      Where? You're new to this forum aren't you, or are you posting under a new name having been banned.

      I'm sure it makes you feel better though to deflect attention away from your own blatant support of the despotic Syrian regime.

      I'm sure it makes your argument easier to make such false accusations. I would live nothing better to see the Syrian regime and every other human rights abiding regime (including Israel's) toppled.  I just don't support foreign intervention, especially one that had the support of Al Qaeda.

      But hey, if you want align yourself with Al Qaeda, who am I to stop you?

      About the Syrian casualties, your rather pathetic essay can easily be dismissed by the fact that there is a total media blackout in the country and ALL casualty data is impossible to confirm and therefore prone to imprecision.

      LOL, you hasbrats are great for comic relief. First you argue that the casualties have been confirmed reports, the in the same breath you dismiss reports as unreliable.

      If you don't defend all rights you might as well defend none.

      As you demonstrate by example. Do you support Israel's occupation, illegal settlements, refusal to allow refugees to return and home demolition?

      I mean, you wouldn't want to inconsistent now would you? 

    • The 8000 Syrian casualty account figure is entirely consistent with the countless reports that have come out of the country and that have been issued by the UN and human rights NGOs.


      The Nation ran a headline in January that 7,384 chi;dren had been killed, citing the United Nations Children’s Fund (Unicef).

      link to

      The problem is that the Nation made up the number killed by adding the "as of January 7" date times thousand and the number 384 the UN got from somewhere.

      MSNBC reported the story about those children in Syria which at least got the number right which the UNICEF's Rima Salah used:

      At least 384 children have been killed and virtually the same number have been jailed, the United Nations Children's Fund said. UNICEF spokeswoman Marixie Mercado told Reuters the figures were based on reports by human rights organizations which it judged to be credible.

      The UN's own human rights official Navi Pillay made up a number back in December. Navi Pillay was exaggerating numbers of people killed in skirmishes in Syria. At the same time she was calling for the U.N. Security Council to refer the situation to the International Criminal Court.

      December 1: Syria now in a civil war with 4,000 dead: United Nations

      Syria has entered a state of civil war with more than 4,000 people dead and an increasing number of soldiers defecting from the army to fight President Bashar Assad's regime, the U.N.'s top human rights official said Thursday.

      December 13: Syria crackdown has killed 5,000 people, UN says

      The death toll from Syria's crackdown on a 9-month-old uprising has exceeded 5,000 people, the top U.N. rights official said Monday, as Syrians closed their businesses and kept children home from school as part of a general strike to pressure President Bashar Assad to end the bloodshed.

      So according to Pillay, in the eleven days between Thursday the 1st December and 12th December 1,000 people (over 90 per day), died in Syria through civil war like violence. Where did that UN official get her numbers from?

      On December 6 the New York Times reported on 36 dead bodys, likely killed in sectarian violence, that were found in Homs. It did not report any any killing elsewhere but added:

      The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, an opposition group based in London, called it “one of the deadliest days since the start of the Syrian Revolution.”

      That weird "Syrian Observatory for Human Rights", which is clearly on the side of the opposition and certainly doesn't downplay the numbers, calls 36 dead "one of the deadliest days". But the UN comes up with a number that represents more than 90 per day killed on each of the last 11 days.

      Navi Pillay has no credibility when they make up such false numbers.

      Iran’s role in the suppression shouldn’t need to be pointed out.

      Iran's role has not even been proven.

      The ‘off the cuff attack on Iran’ was a mild criticism of a regime deserving far worse and you couldn’t even handle that.

      In other words, you are all for war on Iran, based on lies no less. Got it.

      Face it Mohr, you only care about rights when they provide an excuse to go to war with peoepl with brown faces.

    • Israel would not want to bomb civilians – that would only damage their cause.

      It does bomb civlians and so long as the US vetos UN resolutions against Israel, their cause is protected.

      After all, Mordecai Gur(Israeli politician and the 10th Chief of Staff of the IDF) told Ze'ev Shiff (Israeli journalist and military correspondent for Ha'aretz) that:

      The Israeli army has always struck civilian populations, purposely and consciously. The army has never distinguished civilian from military targets, but has purposely attacked civilian targets.

    • 1. The casualties in Syria in the past year (8000) have exceeded the total number of casualities from the I/P conflict

      Where did you get the figure of 8,000 from?

      . Israel does not want a war that will destabilise the Middle East even more.

      False. A destabilized ME keeps Israel's perceived enemies divided, which Israel loves.

      Israel is desperate for sanctions and talks to succeed in avoiding any further conflagration.


      1. The Mossad agrees with the last 2 NIE's, that Iran is NOT producing nukes. In other words, not only is the Israeli leadership lying about Iran, but the sanctions serve no purpose.

      2. Israel is launching and supporting terrorist groups as they conduct terrorist attacks inside Iran.

      Clearly Israel is desperate to start a war one way or another.

      3. It is completely false that Israelis believe that Iran is full of people who want to annihilate them.

      Based on the brain dead comments from Israelis about the film, you are wrong.

    • it’s worth noting that Iran itself bizarrely politicized the award:

      Yes it's a shame. It reminds me of the claims Israel lays to all the Nobel Prizes won by Jewish individuals.

    • Why is it a ‘bigger shame’ that Jews and Palestinians are being held hostage by Zionism Shingo?

      Where to begin?

      1. Israel is not only killing more people, but poses a greater threat to world peace.
      2. Israel is pushing for a dsasterous war with Iran based on false pretenses.
      3. Israel's leaders have managed to convince Israelis that Iran is full of people who want to anihilate them, which is false.

      Need I go on?

      Izik’s comment was reasonable and congratulatory to Iranians.

      Yes, and then came the off the cuff attack on Iran.

    • No real sympathy here for the plight of ordinary Iranians; just the usual gloating.

      there is no doubt in our minds that your sympathy for the plight of ordinary Iranians is certainly heartfelt Mayhem.

    • . It just goes to show that Iranians and Israelis are ultimately quite similar. It’s a shame the Iranian citizens are being held hostage by its oppressive regime.

      It's a bigger shame that Jews and Palestinians are being held hostage to Zionism.

    • Fridges and washing machines mean very little to those struggling under a totalitarian regime.

      Palestinians in the West Bank , Hebron, EJ and Gaza would agree.

  • Harvard's 'one-state' conference spurs 'National Review Online' to suggest expelling Palestinians from Jewish state
    • 1) RoR is a no go always has always will be.

      ROR is a human right, It's nto for ISrael to decide on their behalf.

      The rehabilitation of the refugees in the Arab states is responsibility of
      those states just like Israel rehabilitated the refugees from you Europe
      and those expelled from the Arab countries after 1948.

      What absolute rubbish!

      1. Europe has been paying reperations to Israel ever since WWII. Israel will have to do the same
      2. Very few JEws were expelled from Arab countries after 1948, but they should receive reperations too yes.

      Did you know btw that Palestinians in Lebanon enjoy the same civil rights as those in the WB?

      2)We already demonstrated on Gaza that it can be done.Land swaps of equal value will be made when the settlement is too large to move.

      False. Gaza was a land swap in the sense that more of the West Bank was taken as a price for the pullout from Gaza. The hard liners in Israel decided that the cost of preptecting 8000 illegal settlers in Gaza was better spent put towards protecting even more illegal settlers in the WB.illegal

      3) Yes with some restrictions.It can be enforced on an agreed upon time frame. let’s say 20 years.

      LOL. In the mean time, Israle wil lsteal the rest fo the West Bank abnd flood it with another 1 million religious nut jobs who would rather to go to war with the IDF than move.

    • What does the this has to do with the 2000 Barak / Arafat talks?

      Becasue Shmolom Ben Ami, who was foreign minsyter at the time, stated that he woudl have rejected the Camp David offer had he been a Palestinian.

    • In other words, Israel is not going to agree to anything
      that spells it’s destruction.

      Note that destruction has become an Israeli euphamism for debning Israelis everythign they want.

    • Obviously I don't live in Israel.

      What country did your family come from Oleg and how many passports do you have?

    • This is not a question of what should be this is a question of what will be.

      In other words, Israel is not going to agree to anything unless it is forced to do so.

    • You know Woody i don't think you like us and that sort of thing clouds judgement.

      Yes Woody, can we not have a discussion without you cutting so close to the bone?

      What ever happened to diplomacy, ignoring the ekephsnt in the room and telling a few white lies to keep things civilized?

    • The Palestinians won’t either are you kidding they understand the meaning of it
      as well as we do.

      The meaning is the reality they have lived for 45 years.

       I have no idea actually, the variables are too great especially with the Arab Spring .

      What had the Arab Spring got to do with it?

      I love how every time a single state is raised, you hasbrats screech that "we can't accept that".  When the  1967 borders are  mentioned and you screech "we can't have that either, we need Jerusalem". Then you're asked to come up with your own proposal and you shrug your shoulders and say, "I dunno".

      Will the Palestinian leadership cut the BS and start negotiating instead
      of wasting time.

      No, why don't you cut the BS and fulfill your commitments under the Road Map that your leaders signed and ratified in 2002 - you know, the one that requires Israel to stop building settlements and stealing land BEFORE final status negotiations are to take place?

      The Palestinians would be crazy to negotiate with you until your leaders price that they can be trusted and are willing to honor past agreements.

      Right now it looks like they are quite happy with the current situation and don’t want to change anything.

      No, right now they realize that "negotiations" with only the Americans in the room is nothing but a cynical ploy by which Israelis  
      get to stonewall and steal land while maintaining the facade of wanting a solution.

      They are trying a reconciliation with Hamas but i doubt it will work
      they hate each other too much

      Will the Arab spring reach the Jordanian kingdom at last

      You mean George the US steps in and stops it in it's tracks like they did in Egypt?

      Either way, that's beside the point.

       Whats gonna happen in Syria ?

      Depends on the shit your government is pulling there right now.

      Whats gonna happen in Egypt ?

      What's that got to do with withdrawing from the OT.

      What’s gonna happen with Iran ?

      You mean without crazed messianic leaders succeed in dragging the world into a regional war based on lies?

    • The Palestinians were offered a 2 state solution a number of times
      in the past.They refused , period.

      Yeah right, you thugs stile their land from under them and offered them crumbs and they didn't show any gratitude for your generosity.  

      How unreasonable! 

      And yet here you are, threatening violence if they try to take it back.

      If they agree to it most Israelis with me in them will back it up.

      Rubbish. Most Israelis have elected increasingly right wing governments, the last of which campaigned on a platform of rejecting a two state solution.

      The same leader got a massive bump in the polls when, in a speech before Congresd, he rejects 2 States along
      1967 borders with exchanges of land of equal values.

      No more demands on both sides.

      You mean like no demands to be recognized as a Jewish state, or demands boy the Palestinians disarm?

    • Boring chaos really boring.
      Also not true and you know it.

      Yeah who you gonna believe Chaos, Oleg or your lying eyes?

    • 1) One state solution equals the end of Israel as the national
      state of the jewish people.

      It's not the national state of the Jewish people. It's a state with aJewish majority, but that will change.

      2) The jewish majority living in Israel won’t stand for it.

      That's beside the point. It's obvious that the jewish majority living in Israel won’t stand for anything. In antpy case, once the hard core settler zealots completely take over the place (and continue to refuse to pay taxes) the place will fall apart and the left right and middle of the political spectrum will abandon the place.

      Hell i will find myself in the same trench as Yariv Oppenheimer the ceo of Shalom Achshav on one side and Erez Tadmor from Im Tirtzu on the other.

      You're all Zionists, so you always have been.

      3) If an attempt will be made to enforce on us such a solution Israel will object to it by all means available, including force.

      As if you guys have ever needed an excuse to use force.

      You guys don’t get it somehow or you get it and just don’t give a rats ass about what that would mean to BOTH peoples.

      We get it alright, but regardless of what incites it, the outcome is going to be pretty much the same. The current trajectory is going to lead a bloody genocide one way or another. After all, what are your plans for the 4 million Plestinians in the West Bank and the 1.5 million in Gaza?

      Yeah, I thought so.

      One state means all bets are off and we are back to 1948 all over again.

      Reality check. It's been 1948 for he Palestinians ever since.

      The only ones who are interested in it that i have seen so far are the Purist Idealist from the Ideological Far Left and the Messianic nutters from the
      Ideological Far Right.

      And the only ones who think it won't happen regardless are the ideological nut jobs in the Middle.

    • Both subjects are essentially political in nature and both have similarly phony academic veneers.

      Seeing as Dersh's own book was plagiarized from one of these phony sources, is this an admission by Dersh that he is a phony academic?

  • Surprise-- courageous Elizabeth Warren is craven on Israel lobby
    • this blog is full of anger about Israel to the exclusion of virtually any other injustice — and I acknowledge that Israeli policy is in some instances is foolish and unproductive

      In some instances huh? I take it your ambivalent about their drive for war with Iran even thought the US and Israeli intelligence communities agree Iran is not pursuing nukes.

      And frankly, I don't buy your argument that you are all that perplexed about the fact this blog is full of anger about Israel to the exclusion of virtually any other injustice . You obviously sought out this blog and claim to have been reading it for some time.

      Of all the political blogs out there, why did you seek this one out if not for the fact that you have a personal stake in this conflict?

      You PEP's are so easy to read.

    • And, don’t worry, I’ll try to be gentle.

      Please don't be. We can take it, and no doubt, the talking points and pre prepared responses you have ready to roll out will be all too familiar.

      So let it out. Say what's on your mind and let's get this over and done with. We've already dealt with Izik and Shaktiman in the last 2weeks.

      We should have you sliced and diced in a couple of hours.

  • Video: Protesters are attacked at an 'Israel Alliance' event at U of New Mexico
    • It was a figure of speech Izik,

      Israel is now ruled by religious extremists. It's revealing that this is the only point I made that you have bothered to debate.

    • Shapira was not arrested because of the book, but for terrorist attacks carried out in the West Bank.

      Not surprisingly, he's always released with little more than a slap on the wrist. The IDF has become overwhelmingly dominated bybreligious nut jobs for whom whack jobs like Shapira and Youssef are considered their spiritual guides.

      Take your time with the rest. I'm sure you'll need it.

    •  The 90's terror-wave has nothing to do with the Intifada. When Israel was withdrawing from Palestinian city after city, Hamas and Islamic Jihad launched a deadly terror-wave on the cities of Israel. To wit:

      Israel was not withdrawing from any city.  The Oslo agreement was simply a charade for Isrle to subjugate the Palestinians under a different arrangement.  Israel controlled 100% of the West Bank then as they do today.

      All of these bombings happened in the midst of the peace process and were carried by Hamas and Islamic Jihad.

      So did the assassination of Yitzak Rabin.

      From the Goldstone apology:

      The most important fact about the Golstone piece is that it was an op-Ed published in the Washington Post.   It was not a UN letter nor did not instruct the UN to take any actions in light of the so called evidence.

      Goldstone did not issue any apology.  He said he regretted that the fact-finding mission did not have such evidence explaining the circumstances in which we said civilians in Gaza were targeted, but the reality it that  it was not his fault that such evidence was missing.  The fault was Israel's for refusing to cooperate.

      It stands to reason that his report would have been different had Israel cooperated with the fact finding mission, which they refused to do.  That does not mean the conclusions would have been any different. Indeed, the other members of the investigative team completely rejected any suggestion that the report needed changing.  So did Goldstone for that matter.

      Stating that civilians were not targetted as matter of policy was gross deception on his part.  The Report never claimed that Israel set out to intentionally murder civilians, but said that Cast Lead was “deliberately disproportionate” and intended “to punish, humiliate and terrorize”. Kenneth Roth, Executive Director of Human Rights Watch, made this point on Twitter. He commented, that the “crime of indiscriminate warfare” – not “deliberate killing” – was indeed “state policy”, and that there had been “no retraction” on that part.

      Nor does Go,stones op-ed mean civilians were not targetted.  Furthermore, Goldstone specifically said that the Israeli investigation established the validity of SOME incidents, not ALL incidents.  After all, the Jerusalem Postreported Shimon Peres’ description of Israel’s aim as “to provide a strong blow to the people of Gaza so that they would lose their appetite for shooting at Israel”.

      Then there’s the so-called ‘Dahiya Doctrine’ (after the Lebanon war in 2006) – coined when the IDF Northern Command chief in October 2008 discussed how Israel would conduct the next war: “civilian villages” would be considered as “military bases”, an “approved” plan, he affirmed.  Another paper written by a reserve Colonel for the Institute of National Security Studies (INSS) at Tel Aviv University – titled ‘Disproportionate Force’- observed:

      With an outbreak of hostilities, the IDF will need to act immediately, decisively, and with force that is disproportionate to the enemy’s actions and the threat it poses. Such a response aims at inflicting damage and meting out punishment to an extent that will demand long and expensive reconstruction processes.

      These recommendations were noted by Ha’aretz, two months before Operation Cast Lead, in an article titled, ‘IDF plans to use disproportionate force in next war’.  

      If Goldstone was so sure that Israel's evidence would have influenced findings about intentionality and war crimes, then why did he not insist it be retracted? Instead, he argued the opposite.

      He admits that his report did not have evidence that was later on revealed.

      Again, he is taking the blame for Israel's refusal to cooperate with the fact finding mission. Prior to his turnaround, Goldstone repeatedly told how he pleaded with the Israeli government on multiple occasions to participate and cooperate with the investigation. It was not his fault that they did not 

      The readers should be aware that the procedure in question is called "Nohal Shachen" (neighbour procedure).

      And it involves using human shields.  Calling it an anti-terrorism tactic doesn't change that's fact.  It's simply branding for public comsumption.

      Shin-Bet appealed to the supreme court on that decision and continue to violate the ruling.

      link to

      There was plenty of investigations whose results were made public.

      The investigations were  a farce and an obvious cover up. 

      The UN Committee repeated testimony by Israel’s Military Attorney General (MAG) that “the military investigations system he heads is not a viable mechanism to investigate and assess high-level policy decisions”.

       The Committee also noted that the MAG’s “dual responsibilities” as both “legal advisor” to the “military authorities”, as well as “his role as supervisor of criminal investigations…raises concerns”. In other words, Israel’s internal investigations were conducted by the lawyer of the subject of the investigation.

      Goldstone's new found respect for Israel's knvestogatiev rpcedure ignores the fact that The Goldstone Report itself noted that the Israeli system "to deal with allegations of serious wrongdoing by armed forces personnel does not comply” with the relevant international principles.  Amnesty International slammed the Turkel Commission into the murderous assault on the flotilla as a “whitewash”. In November 2010, The Jerusalem Post reported that the IDF had investigated 400 “complaints” related to Operation Cast Lead, interviewed “more than 600 officers and soldiers”, and the total number of indictments to date was three. A report by Israeli NGO Yesh Din revealed that between 2000 and 2009, less than 6 percent of investigations by the military police “against soldiers suspected of committing offenses against Palestinians and their property” led to indictments. B’Tselem’s report last year, ‘Void of Responsibility’, featured similar statistics: out of 148 cases in which Palestinians were killed between 2006 and 2009, only 22 resulted in a military police probe.

      The Goldstone Report’s findings were corroborated by other groups and investigations, such as the Human Rights Watch report on white phosphorus, Breaking the Silence’s testimonies, and evidence from PCHR in Gaza. B’Tselem documented 252 dead children, a report by two Israeli used testimonies to allege the use of human shields, and Amnesty International concluded that “Israeli forces committed war crimes and other serious breaches of international law”, including “indiscriminate and disproportionate attacks against civilians”. There is also the report[PDF] by the US National Lawyers Guild delegation to Gaza, and the Independent Fact Finding Committee report [PDF] commissioned by the Arab League, and made up of experts from South Africa, Netherlands, Norway, Chile/Germany, Portugal, and Australia.

      Lastly and important side point is that in the wake of the publication of the Goldstone Report, Israeli military officials and politicians spoke about the need “for changes in the international laws of war”. Why the imperative to ‘change’ the laws, if Israel had not broken any?

      I obviously didn't see a Hamas equivalent.

      You obviously didn't see Israel cooperate with the Goldstone fact finding mission.  Of course, what makes Israel's investigation of itself any more credible than a tax return filed by Al Capone ?

      "YouTube is full of examples of the IDF using human shields."
      Show me

      ► 1:07►
      link to
      link to  
      link to

      That is a deceitful lie. The IDF never had orders to kill civilians.

      Breaking the Silence says yu're the liar.

      To wit, about 50% of the casualties were civilians.

      False. 50% were women and children.  The rest were adut men, only a tiny fraction were militants.  After all, 250 of them were police cadets which the lying IDF designated militants.

      Don't you think that the IDF, the 4'th most powerful army in the world, when concentrating all its fire-power on the heavily populated Gaza, would be able to kill more than just 500 civilians?

      That irrelevant.  Israel obviously could wipe out th entirpopulation of Gaza, but it would be a PR disaster that would inflict irreparable damage on Israel.

      Goldstone himself later retracted the claim that Israel targeted civilians.

      No he didn't because as I already explained, the Goldstone Report never made that claim in the first place.

      If the IDF did indeed order troops to kills civilians, where is the evidence? Where are the orders?

      Stupid argument.  The only evidence available to us are Isrel's actions.  Israel's leaders obviously would never share the orders with the public.

      Of course it did. The fact that Israel essentially tore down the terror infrastructure and claimed the heads of many senior Hamasniks, had nothing to do with it.

      What BS.  Terrorism doesn't require infrastructure, which is why terrorism is the chosen method of combat for those who have no infrastructure at their disposal.  Isrel claims their apartheid wall stopped suicide attacks, yet 1,500 Palestinians are able to cli my over, under and around the wall every week, so any suicide bomber could get through and carry out an attack if they wanted to.

      Again, your claim is false. Hamas tries to carry out attacks inside Israel all the time but is thankfully unsuccessful. Here's an example from just 6 days ago

      Your  example is pathetic.  There's no evidence that Hamas were involved and the fact that the report didnn't even make it to an English report suggests it's baseless anyway. If this were true, Nentenyahu would be al, over this like a rash.

      And from late 2011:

      More BS that wasn't deemed worthy of an English translation.

      Israel cannot stop the violence (especially given they re so addicted to it). Hamas realized that violence wasn't helping their cause, so they changed strategy.

       What you are neglecting to mention is that shells fired into Gaza are directed at squads that launch rockets against Israeli towns. Israel does not randomly fire into Gaza.

      Stop lying.  The 7,700 shells fired into Gaza by Israel  I was referring to took 
      Lad between September 2005 and May 2006.  That's right, Israel fired as many shells into Gaza in 10 months as Hamas and the militant groups combined spam aged to fire in 10 years.  You'll also find that there were practically no rockets fired by Hamas between September 2005 and May 2006.

      LOL. What are you suggesting then? Should Israel give Hamas some more weapons before going to fight it? You know, to even the odds a bit. :)

      No, though if you want them to stop hitting civilians it might help with targetting the IDF who cowardly hide their bases out of reach of Hamas rockets.  The point I was making was that the Serb conflict was a real war and Cast Lead was a massacre.

      The background to the Cast Lead is as follows: 

      In December 18'th, 2008, Hamas announced the termination of the truce, a day prior its official cessation.


      Hamas proposed a return to the ceasefire which Israel rejected:

      link to

      And on the 23rd, Olmert went public with his rejection:

      link to

      Thus, by the 24th, Hamas responded with  a bit of lame bravado after beig humiliated.

      Was Kosovo a massacre as well?

      No because:

      1. Gaza is an open air prison whcih made Cast Lead a Turkey shoot
      2.  The the civilian to militant ratio in Gaza was 10 times greater
      3. Gaza was unarmed and had no chance to fight back
      4. Unlike NATO, Israel started Cast Lead and manufactured false pretenses to do so.

      Cast Lead was without doubt, a massacre. A sadistic one at that.

       By occupation, you mean the 67' occupation, or the 48' "occupation"?

      The was a 1948 occupation until the PLO accepted the armistice lines as borders for a 2ss.

      If it was concocted by Israel, then show it to be true. Where's the evidence of a "conspiracy"?

      No conspiracy, just a lie.  Show me the evidence that the tunnel was going to be used to kidnap IDF soldiers?  Oh that's right, there isn't any.

      A society in which a former president, one of the most powerful men in the country, is jailed for sexual assault, is not a "lawless" society.

      A society that elects 2 terrorist leaders and numerous thugs and  war criminals to the office of PM, is indeed a lawless society.

       The PLO charter is problematic as well, but certainly does not use the same religious and murderous language as Hamas does.


      Or the King's Torah, which is mandatory reading for the IDF.

       When did Fatah launch a coup? The coup was performed by Hamas, in Gaza, against the PA.

      Surely, not even you're that stupid.

      link to

      But Fatah is pragmatic, and does not seem to be dedicated to the ideal of destroying Israel at all costs - which Hamas apparently is. Palestinians need pragmatism, not religious psychos in the form of Hamas.

      Your talking points are a decade out if date.

      1. Hamas removed the call for Israel's destruction from it's manifesto in 2005.
      2. Hamas called for an end to suicide attacks in 2006
      3. Hamas have proposed a long ceasefire, which Israel gave rejected on the grounds that they are not in "Israel's strategic interests", not security.
      4. Hamas signed a declaration in 2095 in Cairo, which Haniyeh said included the recognition of prior agreements between Israel and Fatah/PLO. Interestingly, Avigdor Lieberman declared all prior agreements null and void.
      5. Hamas have said they would not oppose the the Arab Peace Initiative, which recognizes Israel and normalizes relations between Israel and thevArab world. Israel rejected the offer repeatedly.
      6. Hamas have endorsed the two state solution along 1967 borders. Netenyahu successfully campaigned on a platform rejecting the 2ss.

      By any reasonable yardstick, they sound far more pragmatic than Likud.

    • Here is the Wikileaks cable that revealed the true reason Israel launched Cast Lead.

      In this context, the new memo provides more insight into Israeli decision-making. Dated Aug. 29, 2008 (about two months after the beginning of the Tahdiya, and four months before the beginning of Cast Lead), it notes (emphasis added):

      Regarding the Tahdiya, Hacham said Barak stressed that while it was not permanent, for the time being it was holding. There have been a number of violations of the ceasefire on the Gaza side, but Palestinian factions other than Hamas were responsible. Hacham said the Israelis assess that Hamas is making a serious effort to convince the other factions not to launch rockets or mortars. Israel remains concerned by Hamas’ ongoing efforts to use the Tahdiya to increase their strength, and at some point, military action will have to be put back on the table. The Israelis reluctantly admit that the Tahdiya has served to further consolidate Hamas’ grip on Gaza, but it has brought a large measure of peace and quiet to Israeli communities near Gaza.

      Note the wording of the bolded sentence. The memo does not say that the Israelis believe “military action will have to be put back on the table” because at some point Hamas will break the ceasefire, but rather because Hamas would like to maintain the ceasefire to strengthen its position. Thus if the memo accurately reflects the Israeli government’s thinking, it would appear that the Israelis were, from relatively early on, contemplating breaking the ceasefire in order to cut Hamas off at the knees. While the memo simply confirms what many had already suspected, it provides yet another reason to be highly skeptical of the decision to initiate Cast Lead.

      link to

    • Izik,

      You really are going to have to do a lot better than trying to sell your B grade Hasbra here.  

      According to Hamas itself, around 600-700 of the casualties were militants

      Rubbish.  One menber of Hamas said that 600-700 casualties were members of Hams, not militants.  It was reported that Israel bombed a police academy the first day, killing police 250 cadets who we're graduating.

      They were not militants.

      . The tides changed during in the 1990′s, in the ensuing peace talks with Israel and Fatah, when Hamas started blowing up buses in city centers to sabotage the talks.

      False again.  The talks had already failed by the time the second Intifada had begun.

      The flaws in the Goldstone report have been numerous, as admitted by Goldstone himself in 2011.

      Goldstone did not admit to any flaws in his report and certainly did not identify any.  In fact, he reaffirmed that the report should not be withdrawn or even changed.

      On that same op-ed, he complemented Israel for making a serious undertaking of investigating itself and derided Hamas for not doing the same.

      Yes he did sell out on this point, seeing as no investigation actually took place and he gave Isrel credit without seeing any part of that investigation. It shouldn’t come as a surprise to anyone that Israel , an organization that praises murderers of civilians, pretends to investigate itself and never finds any wrongdoing on it's part.

      With regards to the use of Hamas of human shields, there is clear evidence of it. Here it is – straight from the horse’s mouth:

      Here's another horse's mouth. When the Israeli Supreme Court banned the use of human shields by the IDF (a practice it had been carrying out for some time), Shin Bet appealed the descision on the grounds that the use of human shields was very useful.

      YouTube is full of examples of the IDF using human shields.

      You yourself admit that out of the few cases of Israeli soldiers acting out of line, they were prosecuted

      Hamas have killed militants who violated the ceasefire with Israel, which is a far more grave judgement.

      . This sent out a clear message to any soldiers that such behavior is not acceptable.

      What was deemed unacceptable was they got caught, or that they had a lowly rank and were scapegoated.  The IDF were given explicit instructions to kill civilians and target civilian infrastructure,

      The war in Gaza wasn’t a “colonial” conflict. Israel retreated from Gaza, how can anyone claim that it wants to “colonize” it after it itself demolished its settlements there, nearly risking civil-war in doing so? The Gaza war is the result of 8 long years of rocket fire against Israeli towns, nothing “colonial” about it.

      This rubbish has all Ben debunked.  Wikileaks revealed that the attack on Gaza had nothing to do with rockets.  After all it was Isrel that violated the ceasefire (on the day of the US presidential elections no less).  Prior to that date, there had been no rockets fired in 4 months.

      Israel also. Optimus to occupy Gaza.

      Hamas continued with the violence, after Israel effectively put a stop to the suicide bombings. Firing rockets into towns is terrorism, and Hamas did just that for 8 years, after Israel had retreated from Gaza.

      Israel did not put an end to the suicide bombings, Hamas did in 2006.  If firing rockets into towns Ipis terrorism, then Israel has perpetrated far more terrorism, having fired 7,700 shells into Gaza over the 10 months after it withdrew.

      That’s not the point. The point is that if you’re trying to paint Gaza as a “massacre”, you would have to label NATO’s operations in Kosovo as a massacre as well, because they have a similar civilian to militant casualty ratio (1:1)

      Stupid argument.  Kosovo was not under occupation nor a blockade, and as such, the Serbs were armed and able to fight back. That's what's war looks like.  In Gaza, Israe, he been imposing a cruel and I humane blockade, and furthermore, Isral started the war without provocation for political reasons.

      Gaza was a massacre without a doubt.

      First, it’s 16, not 8, but that’s besides the point. How many Israelis have to be murdered by Hamas until the government decides to do something about?

      No one was being murder nbetween June and November 2008 when the ceasefire was in place.  Israel put their own citizens in harms way by breaking the ceasefire and refusing to returnto the ceasefire or extend it.

      While Hamas tries to kill AS MANY civilians as it can and focuses its resources on doing so, Israel tries to target military targets as accurately as possible and prevent innocent lives from being lost.

      Rubbish.  If there were any truth to that, Israel would not have mastered 330 children, or destroyed civilian  infrastructure.  All Israe, does it deem everything to be a  security threat, be it children, hospitals, mosques, schools and then bombs them.   Israel kills  women and children.

      they (West) want from us to stop resistance and acknowledge Israel but I herewith announce that this will never happen.

      Resistance is absolutely necessary.  It does not have to take the forms of violence, but resistance must continue until the occupation ends.

      The ceasefire ended when Israel attacked a tunnel that Hamas was digging into Israeli territory in order to kidnap a soldier (exactly as they did with Gilad Shalit). I would say that building this tunnel was a violation of the cease-fire.

      Sorry but no one cas what to think.  The tunnel story was a bullshit excuse concocted by Israel to justify an attack on Gaza.  As Uri Avnery pointed out, if there was any truth to this story, Israel could easily have placed an ambush where the tunnel exited. What is incredibly stupid and infantile about this bs story is that we are expected to believe that it was more practical for Israel to conduct a raid I Gaza the it was to move  the soldiers out of harms way.

       After the Israeli strike, Hamas started launching rockets into Israeli towns. At that point, enough was enough for Israel.

      As Wikileaks revealed, this was the desired outcome. Israel also rejected calls to return to a ceasefire in Decembersand waited out the month of rocket attacks so that it could sell the story that it had been patient, but had to do something to stop the rockets. The Israeli leadership could have stopped the rocket attacks a month earlier without any loss of life.


      Torture is essentially illegal in Israel except for certain conditions.

      But because Israel is a lawless society, it is not enforced.


         Again, why would you go to great lengths to vindicate the murderous Hamas is beyond me, when you can support the relatively moderate Fatah


      And why would you go to great lengths to vindicate the murderous Israelis leadership and apartheid is beyond us, when you can support democracy, human rights and equality. It is also very revealing that you make such an issue of the Hamas charter while saying nothing of the PLO charter, which is practically the same.

      Fatah is the only organization that can bring Palestinians some form of Democracy, while Hamas represents the same Taliban-like oppression we’ve seen taken hold of many unfortunate countrires.

      You are either insanely deluded or a pathological liar.

      Fatah lost the last elections to Hamas, but not only refused trecognize the outcome, they launched a coup to overthrow Hamas. On top of all this, Abbas continued t insist he was the legitimate elected leader 24 months after his term had expired.  Is that was you take tobe democracy?

      The reaso. You love Fatah so much is because they are corrupt sock puppets of Washnington and Tel Aviv and they are prepared to sell out their own population.

    • Ievery time David Green has come to this blog, he has displayed the same insufferable sense of entitlement. It's as though he expects the red carpet to be rolled out for him and everyone here to bend to his wishes.

      It's amazing that he accuses others of bring gatekeepers, while behaving like one himself.

    • The responsibility of civilian deaths by the hands of the IDF lies primarily with the Hamas, who knowingly and purposefully places civilians in the line of fire.

      Your Hasbra doesn't wash here. Gaza is one of the most densely populated places on earth and Israel targeted civilians and civilian infrastructure. They shot civlans who were running y or carrying white flags.

      Also, Israel has effective counter-terrorism that has essentially stopped conventional suicide bombings.

      Rubbish. Hamas called for an end to suicide attacks in 2006, which is precisely whe they ended.

      Israel spends most of its efforts defending its citizens, whereas Hamas has an agenda of endangering their own.

      That's easily proven false. On November 2008, Israel broke a 4 month ceasefire, during which no rockets were fired by Hamas, and the few that did fire were fired by militants not under Hamas control. They arrested or killed those that breached it.

      So Israel failed to protect Israeli civilians by breaking a ceasefire.

      Then for the next month, Israel did nothing to stop the rockets, which were fired in retaliation. Israel did not defend against them and rejected calls from Hamas to return to a ceasefire.

      So I fact, Israel used the redirects of Sderot as human shield s during that period.

    • This is conspiratorial thinking that doesn't help us to understand how USFP works. For the 10,000th time.

      repeating something 1000 times dowsn't make your case any atringer David. Such a strategy carried out on such a scale does indeed qualify as a conspiracy, but the available evidence (ie. over 250 cases of espionage investigated by the FBI) proved that it is by no means simply a theory.

      You're not being personal, just dishonest.

    • The “Protocols” are an anti-semitic hoax used to incite violence against Jews.

      The “Protocols” are an anti-semitic hoax that Israel has gone to great lengths to validate.

      The Hamas Charter, on the other hand, is the official ideological document of Hamas, which also incites violence against Jews.

      The Hamas Charter contains a qualifier that forbids members harm to those who have not "borne arms against you on account of religion, nor turned you out of your dwellings"

      No such qualifier is seen in the founding documents of organisati­ons like Likud, Shas and Betar all of which pledge the clearance of Palestinia­ns from at least the Jordan to the sea.

      The leader of Shas is well known for his pronouncem­ents calling for the "annihilat­ion of Arabs".

      Betar has some interestin­g ideas, not dissimilar from Sheik Yassin:

      "Betar supports the concept of a Jewish state with a Jewish Majority in its biblical-h­omeland." "The entire land of Israel as given to the Jewish people by G-d with it's eternal capital Jerusalem.­"
      "100% Jewish Labor in all Jewish enterprise­s."
      "Every great colonizati­on in history, has always entailed a revolt of the natives."
      "Our aim is to make Betar such a world organism which, at a sign from the center, will be able simultaneo­usly to move tens of thousands of hands in the cities of all countries.­"
      "Disciplin­e is the subordinat­ion of a mass to one leader"
      "every Jew is a "prince" "
      link to www­­uk

      The King's Torah is also illuminati­ng:

      link to www­.countercu­­

    • Supporters of the Palestinians need to figure out how to organize direct action and political action.

      So long as they don't embarrass, inconvenience or provoke Israeli supporters or Israel.

    • Considering your against the boycott and against the protest of normalization, it’s no surprise you want Palestinians and their supporters to sit idly by while they are defamed.

      Well put Cliff. Green is another example of a gate keeper who expects Palestinian activism to stick to a verb narrow set of guidelines. Ideally, they should be seen and not heard, and preferably not seen at all.

      Green wants them to remain passive and not to embarrass Israel.

    • They need people with the patience to explain a lot of basic stuff.

      Because as David knows, the Palestinians really have time on their side. Try telling a family who's house is being demolished to be patient.

      Seriously, is it just me, or do all Zionists eventually sound like sociopaths?

    • So you’re suggesting that a tactic of the pro-Palestinian movement should be to provoke confrontation at Zionist events?

      Right David, and women should wear short skirts and plunging necklines in public - you know -it might provoke sexually frustrated men.

      If Zionist events are going to be attended but such violent participants, shouldn't you be arguing against allowing them to be held?

    • But you can’t expect those who are not yet informed and secure about this issue to respond well to this tactic, and to make the same distinction you do

      So what are you suggesting David? That Zionists are dangerous, violent and unpredictable and therefore should not be confronted?

      When I read your absurd comments, I feel like I'm hearing Witty all over again.

  • Israeli spokesman Mark Regev grilled on CNN International over Khader Adnan
    • Regev’s job is to come on TV to sweep ugly stuff under the rug and regrettably, the guy’s good at it.

      I beg to differ Walid. Regev is held in contempt by reporters outside the US. In fact, he's becoem something of an object of ridiucle.

  • Israeli government sending 100 Israelis abroad to 'defend the state' during Israel Apartheid Week
    • Free speech is a wonderful thing.

      Rather than put an end to Israeli apartheid, they are spending millios justifying it. That's not such a wonderful thing.

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