Commenter Profile

Total number of comments: 1373 (since 2012-06-23 07:13:37)

Showing comments 1373 - 1301

  • Yes, Virginia, there is a liberal Zionist
    • RoHa: " I cannot forbear from pointing out that you seem to be the one obsessed with hate. [ETC.]"


      Really great, thoughtful, incisive post!

    • Mooser: " If there is an inherent fault in the Jewish religion (and a religion is made of people, isn’t it?) "


      No, a religion is not "made of people"; it's made of myths, beliefs, ideology, ritual, organizational structure etc.

      It seems this category error leads you to believe that criticism of Jewish religion= criticism of Jewish people. Given that belief, your qualms are entirely understandable.

    • Mooser: " Problem is, very little of it is true, unless you are a right-wing mouth-breather."

      Sean wrote: “the treatment by white police of blacks is a major problem in American society"

      True. And he wrote:

      " ...the Michael Brown case was a poor symbol on which to try to build a civil rights crusade"

      Debatable, sure. But I agree. And I'm not right wing.

      "his strong arm robbery and physical bullying of storekeeper much smaller than him, and his attempt to wrestle a gun from a cop after punching him..."

      You could quibble, but that's basically what the facts establish.

      "undermined the moral clarity of this incident for most of the American public"

      Again, debatable. But reasonable and verifiable via opinion polls.

    • seanmcbride: "Sibiriak, Would you agree that the Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations is the main pillar of the Israel lobby?

      I haven't made a complete anatomy of the Israel Lobby, so I wouldn't want to commit myself to that proposition, but I'm willing to assume that for the sake of argument.

      As you know, I'm quite sympathetic to your points and think most of them are valid. I was only wondering (not arguing) whether focusing on the ideological roots of Zionism in (Classical) Judaism (ala Shahak for example), however insightful, might be counterproductive in a *practical* sense--because its too touchy.

      In any case, at the moment I spending a lot time on other issues---Ukraine, the conflict of "the West" with Russia, geo-economics etc.-- so my posts here have not been as fully thought out as I would like them to be.

    • Mooser: " you old son-of-Irgun"


      Lol. Good one.

    • seanmcbride: "...the Michael Brown case was a poor symbol on which to try to build a civil rights crusade."


      Perhaps the notion Zionism is rooted in Judaism (which slips easily into Zionism=Judaism), however valid, is a poor ideological formulation with which to try to strengthen the anti-Zionist crusade.

    • seanmcbride: "Wrt to Ferguson: my point of view is that the treatment by white police of blacks is a major problem in American society, but that the Michael Brown case was a poor symbol on which to try to build a civil rights crusade — his strong arm robbery and physical bullying of storekeeper much smaller than him, and his attempt to wrestle a gun from a cop after punching him, undermined the moral clarity of this incident for most of the American public.

      That's a very reasonable position, and very well put.

  • Bypassing Israel: The necessity of recognition in European capitals
    • ritzl, you quote Hostage saying: "accepting the existence of the occupied state of Palestine for the purposes of prosecuting Israel for the crime of apartheid has nothing to do with accepting the viability of the existing territorial entity or the finality of a two state solution."

      But the European nations in question are not simply "accepting the existence of the occupied state of Palestine for the purposes of prosecuting Israel", but moving toward recognition of Palestine as a separate sovereign state next to a sovereign Israel in order to end the conflict once and for all.

      More succinctly, European recognition of Palestine = European backing for a final two-state solution.

  • Why Israel's Jewish nationality bill is a big deal
    • amigo: “there is no doubt that land was set aside for a jewish state by the un”mcc
      </iThere is no doubt that is zionist hogwash. There was no mention of a jewish state

      Actually, UN Resolution 181 called for the partition of Palestine into a Jewish State and an Arab State. There are numerous references to the proposed Jewish State.

      link to

  • Saban confronts Bennett: 'Are you willing to cut commercial ties with Europe?'
    • hopmi: "clearly, the entire passage is about what products Israel makes, and about how those products are important. They’re not a threat to shut anything off ."

      Yes, that's the obvious commonsense interpretation. Bennett's phrasing was awkward and unclear, though.

      Kris: "@hophmi: Here is, again, what Bennett said: “Look, if today you pressed the button, and you stopped using Israeli products, you wouldn’t wake up in the morning because the chip in your cell phone doesn’t work because it’s tmade in Israel.”

      So what is your problem? He said that you wouldn’t wake up because the chip wouldn’t work BECAUSE THE CHIP IS MADE IN ISRAEL"

      Bennett is saying that if you *stopped using Israeli products*, your phone would not work because it uses an Israeli product. The chip that is made in Israel that makes the phone work would not be there if Israel were boycotted, so your phone wouldn't work. That's Bennett's point, however awkwardly expressed.

      Whether that is a realistic assessment is another question.

  • Mamdani's 'holistic' challenge: Anti-Zionists must persuade Jews they can only be safe by dismantling the Jewish state
    • Sibiriak: A somewhat different question: “How could Palestinians convince Israeli Jews that dismantling Israel would make Israeli Jews feel safe?” I don’t see that happening in the foreseeable future.

      pabelmont: Neither did Mamdani


      Well, Mamdani (and Weiss) did assert that such a persuasive effort was in order, which implies that it has a foreseable chance of success.

      pabelmont: " He merely said it was the prerequisite for a fairly-voluntary negotiated peace more or less fair to Palestinians. He did not, I believe, discuss the alternative of a “solution” imposed on Israel (or on all parties) by outside forces."

      He also did not, in the excerpts above, explain how Israeli Jews could NOT be persuaded to dismantle a PORTION of the Zionist-state --a minority of the settlements for a two-state settlement-- but COULD somehow be persuaded to dismantle the ENTIRE Zionist state.

    • " The Zionist message to the Jewish population of Israel is this, Zionism is your only guarantee against another holocaust. "

      For Israeli Jews, the more realistic Zionist message is probably just as compelling: that life in a Jewish-majority state would be greatly preferable to life in an Arab-majority one.

      And its not only a negative message; it has a positive side: "Jewish self-determination."

    • "How can he scare people with the threat of “equal rights?"


      Cf. Michael Mann: "The Dark Side of Democracy: Explaining Ethnic Cleansing"

      "...democracy has always carried with it the possibility that the majority might tyrannize minorities, and this possibility carries more ominous consequences in certain types of multiethnic environments."

    • DoubleStandard: " How would dismantling Israel make jews safe? "


      A somewhat different question: "How could Palestinians convince Israeli Jews that dismantling Israel would make Israeli Jews feel safe?"

      I don't see that happening in the foreseeable future.

  • Elizabeth Warren visits Netanyahu, even as he undermines US negotiations with Iran
    • Horizontal: "I will not vote for any candidate who places the welfare of a foreign country above our own. "I"


      Unfortunately, they all do. That "foreign country?"-- transnational capital.

  • David Remnick undermines Israel's one-state president
    • " Remnick puts the problem front and center. Israel’s new president advocates for one state with citizenship and equal rights for all. "

      Nonsense! Rivlin does nothing of the sort. He advocates the absorption of the West Bank into Israel, but NOT GAZA (and not any Palestinian refugees/descendants). That leaves TWO states, not one. That leaves a Palestinian minority in an Jewish-supremacist Israeli State.

      Cf. Noam Sheizaf "What is the Israeli Right's one-state vision?"
      link to

      "The right-wing figures and settlers I spoke to have some different nuances among them, but generally, their one-state solution would look like this: gradually and unilaterally, Israel would annex the West Bank (different time frames were given for this process – from five to 25 years); beginning with Area C and then moving to B and A. Barring security clearances (and according to some – loyalty oaths), all Palestinians will end up having blue Israeli identity cards with full rights. The army will return to dealing mostly with national defense, and the police will take over civilian policing duties in the annexed territory.

      Constitutional measures that will define Israel as a Jewish State would take place in advance (some mentioned passing a basic law defining Israel as a Jewish State, something Netanyahu is already promoting). Palestinian refugees will not be allowed back. Gaza will not be annexed, and will turn to a fully independent region, separated from the State of Israel.

      Except for Rivlin, who floated the idea of a dual parliament system (which actually makes his one state closer to a confederative model), none of the others mentioned major changes in the electoral system and they expected Palestinians to vote for the Israeli Knesset (which might have to become slightly bigger, but this is of little importance).

      Separating Gaza from their model is necessary for right-wing one staters in order to maintain a Jewish majority in the unified state. For the same reason, they rely on the demographic calculations of Yoram Etinger, who puts the total number of Palestinians in the West Bank (excluding East Jerusalem) at 1.5 million..."

  • Netanyahu's 'battle for Jerusalem' can't end well for any of us
    • NormanF: "The massacre at Har Nof is a game changer for the Jewish State"


      No, the game remains the same. Expand; expel.

  • Recognizing Palestine—and political reality
    • " Partition can take one of two forms: the Kerry proposal, with Israel annexing the major settlement blocs at the expense of Palestinian viability, or the international consensus two-state settlement..."

      Or anything in-between.

  • Shlomo Sand resigns from being Jewish. Totally. Mostly. Almost
    • Keith: "Are you suggesting that Judaism is more than a religion whereas Christianity and Islam are merely religions? "


      I was just elucidating the possible meanings of the word, not advocating any particular definition.

      In addition to the Wikipedia article linked above, see , for example Merriam- Webster's third and fourth definitions of the term "Judaism":

      3: the cultural, social, and religious beliefs and practices of the Jews
      4: the whole body of Jews : the Jewish people

      link to

      So, yes, the word can refer to more than simply a religion.

    • Mooser: "Sands is a self-described atheist. I don’t think he is much concerned for the Jewish religion, Judaism."

      "Judaism" refers not just to "the Jewish religion," but to " the philosophy, and way of life of the Jewish people" as well.

      link to

  • Israeli Supreme Court upholds law allowing housing discrimination against Palestinians
    • DoubleStandard: ut when a population – admittedly not monolithically, but by a sizeable majority – makes clear it doesn’t want to participate in the life of the state, who are they to demand equality? .

      But non-Jewish Israelis DO wish to participate in the life of the state--and they ARE participating in the life of the the state through their very actions to change the Israeli state's undemocratic, discriminatory, ethnic-supremacist and theocratic features. To me, fighting for democracy within a state is the very essence of good citizenship.

    • DoubleStandard: “Israel is the state of the Jewish people"

      Yes, that is the common Zionist contention, but in any case, the "Jewish People" is defined primarily in ethnic/genetic terms, not religious ones (though religion plays a role). One doesn't have to believe in or practice any form of Jewish religion to be a member of the Jewish People. The operative expression is for good reason the "JewishPeople," NOT "Adherents of the Jewish faith" . A "state of the Jewish People" , therefore, inescapably involves discrimination against non-Jews on ethnic as well as religious grounds.

    • DoubleStandard: "Since many Israeli Jews are in fact Arabs, it’s religious discrimination, not racial. "
      I don’t think Israeli Arabs want Jews moving to their towns. I’m currently in a “Jewish” part of Israel and there are plenty of Arabs walking around"


      You first make a distinction between religious and racial identity, then go on to completely ignore that very distinction, talking about "Israeli Arabs" and "Arabs walking around" is if they could not be Jews.

  • Israel's right wing Zionists, Palestine's militant resistance are political winners after Gaza slaughter
    • " Israel’s right wing Zionists, Palestine’s militant resistance are political winners..."


      The one-democratic-state-solution idea is dead.

    • Kay24 : " The biggest favor the Beebs could have done for Hamas. "


      The stronger and more popular Hamas, the stronger and more popular the Israeli right.

  • Our new look
  • Jodi Rudoren loves a winner
    • Keith:

      All movements proclaim high ideals and moral grounding, however, all need to be judged on their actions...

      True, the "actually existing" movements need to be judged on their actions, but their ideals and ideologies need to be judged on their own terms, imo.

  • Democratic Party leader echoes Netanyahu's new theme: Hamas equals ISIS
  • Ceasefire comes to a close -- Mohammed Assaf's 'Raise Your Head High'
    • MHughes976:

      Anyone with friendly, or even objective, attitudes to Palestinians would say, for a start, that they have rights equal to anyone’s and deserve to be fully enfranchised citizens of a fully sovereign state with frontiers determined by a normal procedure.

      Hence the enduring relevance of a two-state solution, despite Israel's relentless expansionism.

  • Liberal Zionism has lost its refuge-- a plausible two-state solution
    • At The National, Joseph Dana writes that the Gaza onslaught has deepened the understanding that the two-state solution is a dead letter because Israel’s militant response to Palestinian unity shows that it has no intention of allowing a viable Palestinian state to emerge...

      If Israeli intentions are the deciding factor, then a one-state solution is even less plausible than a 2 -state solution.

  • How the Israeli discourse on terrorism seeks to justify blatant war crimes
    • Djinn:

      If they then took up arms with any of the armed groups committing the ongoing Nakba, then yes they were terrorists.

      And if they were at all sympathetic to the ongoing Nakba, they were-- "terrorist sympathizers."

  • Jodi Rudoren and Abe Foxman mull over 'the Arabs' owning New York hotel
    • Mooser:

      They will never forget those six years. Six years can be a lifetime when an existential threat takes over your favorite hotel!

      I detect in your remarks a troubling indifference to Jewish post traumatic dynamics.

  • Gaza war gives rise to new Jewish group targeting Jewish institutions that support occupation
    • Dan Crowther:

      I’m happy to have jewish folks start wholly ineffective, sectarian peace groups, I just don’t see why it needs to be congratulated, publicized and so on.

      Publicity is what these groups are all about. If you want them to be effective , then, yes, you should publicize them, promote them, praise them to high heaven.

      And it is critically important that there be such Jewish groups . It sends a clear message: opposition to specific Israeli policies is not "anti-Jewish", "anti-Semitic", or even necessarily "anti-Israeli".

      The problem isn't that such groups are getting too much publicity; it's that they are getting too little.

  • What Jim Fallows and I saw
    • tokyobk:

      But I am going to make a speculation that “the jews problem” for you is not going to go away with Israel.

      How can such speculation, devoid of supporting evidence or argument, be considered anything other than vile character assassination?

    • Philip Weiss:

      Just as Ed Miliband’s outspoken criticism of Israel in UK shows that Jewishness and Zionism are overlapping categories but by no means an identity.

      It's also true that criticism of Israel and anti-Zionism are overlapping categories but by no means an identity.

  • Remnick gets the timeline wrong
    • It’s true, Rivlin is a one state guy, but he’s willing to give everybody citizenship.

      Perhaps not. According to the provided link:

      4. An unabashed proponent of the one state solution, Rivlin advocates giving full Israeli civil and political rights to West Bank Palestinians in a single-state scenario.

      link to

      No mention of GAZA and its 1.6+ million Palestinians. Israeli annexation of the West Bank alone is not a "one-state solution."

  • Video: A beautiful brother went looking for his family in the death zone (Updated)
    • just:

      we have to use the words ‘terrorist’ and ‘terrorism’ right back at them, then.

      Yes! Yes! Yes! "Terrorism" easily trumps "war crimes", "human rights violations" etc. There is no alternative.

  • Israel is in a pickle
    • Bumblebye:

      Interesting Walid. Israel will be unable to claim ‘terroreeesm’ if these Hamas forces haven’t made for civilian homes and massacred them, will they! If Hamas victims are military,...

      Attacks on military targets by various groups are routinely labeled "terrorism" by state propagandists. The U.S. has consistently done this--the 1983 barracks bombing in Lebanon is a classic example, but only one of many. The Kiev regime is labeling attacks on Ukrainian military forces as "terrorist attacks". ETC.

    • American:

      ” if israel can’t stop the rocket fire they are in a pickle, that’s my point. you can have the last word.’….annie

      o.k. my last word.
      If Israel cant stop the rocket fire they will keep on assaulting Gaza with that as their justification.

      I agree. Assaulting Gaza. Rejecting any genuine peace process. Occupying the West Bank. Warehousing Palestinians. Annexing territory. Labeling Palestinians "terrorists". Suppressing domestic dissent ( however little there is). Bolstering a militaristic fortress state-society. ETC. Low-damage rocket fire is in Zionist/militarist interests.

  • Palestinian citizens of Israel protest draft in Tel Aviv as passersby tell them to die or emigrate
    • If the path to the future is towards one state

      "One state"-- including Gaza, or it's not one state. What path do you see toward that?

  • Settler legislators call for annexing West Bank blocs to 'return us to sanity and Zionism'
    • ritzl:

      if Israel does de jure annex “Area C,” what will they do with the 300K Palestinians living there

      Not all of Area C: the bills call for annexing "different settlement blocs, making up most of Area C ; some areas with dense Palestinian populations would likely be excluded. Palestinians ending up in Greater Israeli territory would get full Israeli citizenship.

  • The NYT and the NSA: Abramson and Baquet have different journalistic values
  • 'NYT' publishes unvarnished ADL propaganda: 93% of Palestinians are anti-Semites
    • W.Jones :

      The number 1 problem with the survey is that it asks a stereotypical question format: “Are Jews X?” If you answer Yes OR No, you have made a generalization about all Jews.

      Good point.

  • Israeli teens take celebratory selfie in police custody after attacking Palestinian car
    • Ellen:

      ... Zionism is no different. Like the ADL it desperately needs real or imagined Judeophobia to keep itself going. Without it, Zionism would die.

      Well, the ADL's latest research claims to show that 26% of people worldwide are anti-Semites as are 93% of the people in Gaza and the West Bank.

      link to

  • Abunimah and Blumenthal's freedom ride
    • Hostage:

      The notion that Abbas “led” the peace process is detached from reality.

      Correction: Abbas has led the Palestinians in a fraudulent peace process led by others.

    • irishmoses:

      Abbas has been in charge for 10 years and what do the Palestinians have to show for his nonviolent efforts?

      Abbas has led a fraudulent "peace process," not any kind of massive non-violent intifada.

    • yonah fredman:

      I don’t believe that Gaza is large enough to be considered a sufficient sized state to address the needs of the Palestinians for statehood.

      Ya think?

  • Don't destroy our dream-castle Israel! (Why the Jewish establishment shut out J Street)
    • yonah fredman:

      ... the idea that [Netanyahu] would annex Area C or Area B, is preposterous, given his realpolitik.

      What consequences does he fear?

  • Two-state solution is 'psychological solution' allowing people to take themselves off the moral hook -- Telhami
    • pabelmont:

      But merely proposing a “solution” without proposing a means to achieve it, without a reasonable reality-based hope for it, is self-delusion.

      And what are the means to attain a 1SS, uniting Gaza/West Bank and Israel, which could not just as well and more easily be used to obtain a 2SS?

    • And he predicted that with the end of peace talks, the Obama administration’s only real option is to lay out a specific plan for a solution of the conflict, ala the Clinton Parameters

      And that "solution", involving highly truncated Palestinian mini-state, will set the standard for an internationally acceptable outcome.

  • As Israel 'staggers toward the abyss,' criticizing it is now 'the most fashionable cause' on the left
    • John Kerry:

      A two-state solution will be clearly underscored as the only real alternative. Because a unitary state winds up either being an apartheid state with second class citizens—or it ends up being a state that destroys the capacity of Israel to be a Jewish state...

      link to

  • Bait-and-switch anti-Semitism: NYU SJP accused of targeting Jews, or not
  • Obama and Kerry are spurred by 'vainglory' in pursuing talks -- Finkelstein
    • Citizen:

      Dismantling the PA would mean either conning the UN into taking over the territory directly, an unlikely proposition, or simply handing the keys back to Israel and forcing the Israeli military, the official governor of the occupied territories, to handle basic services in major cities.

      Or: Israel annexes Area C etc. and lets Palestinians keep the keys to the remaining populous areas in the West Bank. The West Bank then becomes like Gaza: nobody is forcing Israel to handle basic services etc. there.

    • Israel constitutes a “strategic asset” of the US

      How about, "Many in the US ruling elite believe Israel constitutes a “strategic asset” of the US."

  • Palestinian youth say the talks with Israel are futile
  • Two desperate anti-Semitism charges, from Foxman and Boteach
    • Krauss:

      The reason why using anti-Semitism in Zionist advocacy is dangerous is precisely because it weakens any attempt to root out real anti-Semites..

      And you, Krauss, are a perfect example of this, with your hysterical, irrational, absolutely baseless charges of anti-Semitism against puppies.

  • Amid 'climate of fear' at Vassar, president comes out against 'action and protest' re Israel
  • The Jewish community must not embrace Ayaan Hirsi Ali
    • LeaNder, it's "to the extent," not "extend ." Sorry to nitpick, but you made the error three times, so I thought it might be helpful to point it out. I very much appreciate your posts here--they always have some mysterious ambiguous element that keeps me thinking, like poetry.

  • Simon Schama's Israel whitewash
    • the program shows a long except from David Ben-Gurion’s speech of May 14, in which he announced that “the Jews have come home from their exile.”

      The notion of a grand "exile of the Jewish People" is mythological, not historical.


      Israel Jacob Yuval, "The Myth of the Jewish Exile from the Land of Israel"

      link to

      (link to

      link to

      Israel Bartal, dean of humanities at the Hebrew University:

      “Although the myth of an exile from the Jewish homeland (Palestine) does exist in popular Israeli culture, it is negligible in serious Jewish historical discussions...

    • seanmcbride:

      In viewing all five episodes of Simon Schama’s The Story of the Jews, I was struck by the relentless main theme: Jews have been in conflict with “the nations” — one national enemy and Pharaoh after another — since the inception of Judaism to the present day, century after century.

      A very important observation. The creation of a grand "story" relentlessly expressing the theme you identified -- this is Zionist myth-history.

  • Ultra-Zionists push back as Jewish establishment tacks toward center
    • Krauss:

      It is striking to me that Bronner, when pushed to the wall, doesn’t consider what is best for the readers. [ETC.]

      Good catch. Excellent points.

  • 'A Painful Price': The escalating war on Palestine solidarity at U of Michigan and beyond
    • puppies:

      those “some things” must necessarily be inborn. Everything else, i.e. acquired later and kept consciously, is open to rational criticism.

      As a point of logic, why would "some thing" necessarily be exempt from rational criticism just because it was "inborn"? And why can't "unconscious choices" be open to criticism?

    • LeaNder:

      Hardly “uniquely” French

      "Unique in French history" does not mean "unique to French history".

    • JeffB:

      I’d love a world where no one think to question Jewish legitimacy, where Israel for Israelis is as non controversial as Sweden for Swedes;

      "Israel for Israelis" IS utterly non-controversial. "Israel is the state for the Jewish People, not its citizens" ---much less so.

  • MJ Rosenberg’s conundrum
    • talknic:


      Absolutely possible. Gaza is under occupation or blockaded. Whatever the terminology---EITHER WAY, it is NOT part of a single de facto state including Israel.

      Neither Gaza or the West Bank have seceded from Palestine.

      Agree. The point stands: IF the WB were to be annexed by Israel, legally or illegally, via referendum or not, Gaza would still remain outside of Israel.

      So, by what conceivable political process could Gaza become part of a single state including Israel? Answer that. And if it does not, there is no 1SS.

Showing comments 1373 - 1301