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The War of Ideas in the Middle East
Well would the "right" comparison point with Nazi Germany be the situation in the year 1940, before the mass killings begun. There were in Germany then prisons, concentration camps, first ghettos, some murders, state level propaganda, nationalistic violent movements, deportations, thefts of property etc. Something what we can see also in Israel/Palestine. We know how the whole "story" of Nazi Germany, because it is history. We do not know how the story of Zionist Israel will end, but all marks are that the highly likely result will be a unseen mass killing. So when Israel and Nazi Germany are now compared the comparison points "timing" in Germany is 1932 - 1940. Astonishing much is equal. Not the amount of killed - yet, but the violent racism, over-nationalistic attitude, concentration camps, ghettos, isolation of minorities etc are.
Israel and Jews use constantly using Nazi Germany as one of the main reasons to "justify" the creation of their country - Israel. We have also all rights to try to find historic and present comparison points of what Israel is and has become. There is is no other country in the West where large masses march on streets shouting "Death to Arabs" with all support of the ruling regime. The only point we can compare Jerusalem Day marches are in the 30's when the German youth shouted death to Jews. For example. Where have we seen Gaza's in the not so distant history? The only possible comparison point is Warsaw Ghetto.
Lieberman as a minister suggested bombing Aswan damn. What would that be - a Holocaust - or a Holocaust power two? Israel has weapons for transforming the whole Middle East to radioactive glass deserts. And a mentality solve
problems with violence. The constant decades long chain of aggressions and attacks is a proof of that. Israel lives and earns money with these conflicts. Peace would force Israel to shrink to a 5-7 million small state what it is. And that they do not want...
Surely there have been extremely bad events in world in the past and even in recent times. But these events do not justify what Israel has done and is doing.
Israel now "celebrates" the yearly memory of the events of the Holocaust and demands those constant loyalty oaths from the western world in forms of endless compensations and quilt confessions. Never again - they say in Israel. On the same time Israel has done much of the same Nazis did in Germany. Maybe the scale is still debatable, but the difference is that the story of Nazi empire is something that happened and is "closed" , the story of Israel is still on a developing story and the most bloody chapters are in the future if a complete u-turn is not made. Erasing a population of millions, the Palestinians, will not be tidy. Neither will be using nukes against neighbors.
Israel is today's "Germany of the 30's" more than any other country. Surely Israeli is not like the pre WW2 Czechoslovakia or Poland. Israel is one of the mightiest military forces in the world armed to their teeth with nukes, nerve gases and bacteriological weapons. The society is so severely radicalized with a racist nationalistic/religious ideology that the nearest comparison point in the western world are fascist nations in the 30's and the South African apartheid era. The politicians are so aggressive with their lebensraum demands and who do not see any other means in foreign policy than using military force. The leading rabbis express fervently so racist views, which said by a Christian priest would end his carrier in a millisecond and even cause severe problems with the laws in our countries. ETC.
Do you really honestly believe in that desperate pistol story? Nobody with a plastic pistol as his only "weapon" attacks an adult male and heavily armed soldier/police so that he tries to hit frequently the soldier with the hand where the plastic pistol is. The alleged plastic pistol doesn't make the hits more effective - on the contrary. That kind of toy pistol is light and fragile. The only realistic way in using such a fake pistol is to pretend it being a real weapon and make equal threats as one would do with a real pistol. Not using it like it would be a hammer or ax.
It is certain that Israel has of the event better quality videos taken from different angles. Israel with 100 percents certainty films every passing person on check points to gather information of the Palestinians movements using face recognition. It would be a simple matter for Israel to prove that the young man had really a shiny toy pistol in his hand by presenting a decent picture of that. Instead it can only present an edited blurry extremely low resolution (240p) video which proves nothing.
Shiny gun? Have you Obsidian tried to hit an adult heavily armed man with a plastic pistol? The only effect of that is that the target gets a cramp caused by the laughter. That shiny (= reflecting to light) object in this unbelievable unclear video is more likely a mobile phone and its screen reflecting to lights surrounding the checkpoint.
Most of us have a small camera which can produce HD quality video. The hightech Israeli army surveillance cameras on checkpoints and drones produce so laughable quality video that it is impossible to believe it being the reality. In this video and those other numerous other videos published by IDF the common dominator is that they are so unclear and blurry, that anybody can claim what ever they want based on the "evidence" these videos provide. I wounder how can Israelis use for example face recognizing programs if the video feed has the quality IDF "offers" in these videos it publishes.
It is almost certain that Israeli soldiers/police on the checkpoints have in their pockets a collection of plastic pistols and knives. These are useful when covering up unclear killings. Not the first time these fake weapons appear and are used as an excuse. One thing is certain that this video doesn't prove that there was any shiny fake gun.
In Ariel are 14,000 students, of them 600 Israeli Arabs. Israeli Arabs represent about 20 percent of the Israeli population. So using basic mathematics and the idealistic (but obviously not valid) assumption, that in Israel all people have equal rights and possibilities, the amount of Israeli Arabs in Ariel should be around 2,800. Considering that hundreds of thousands of Israeli Jews in reality live not in Israel the amount of "the minority's proportion" should be even bigger. Arabic is one of Israel's official languages, but Ariel's internet pages are in Hebrew and English.
The proportional share of minorities among academic professions tells much about the minority's real status in the society. In the pre-WW2 Poland Jews represented about 10 percent of the population. 56 percent of all doctors were then Jews. Of teachers 43%, of journalists 22% and of lawyers 33% The majority of the country's retail businesses were owned by Jews. Still we are in the propaganda told that Jews in Poland were then oppressed and discriminated. What is the share of Israeli Arabs among doctors and other professions listed in the Polish example? Or retail business owners. One percent or even five?
A long time Finnish member of Parliament Pertti Salolainen (former journalist, diplomat and leader of the conservative party) got just a "special" anti-Semite treatment. He was asked in the television why USA voted against the lifted Palestinian status in UN. He said that USA has difficulties to take a neutral stand because the Jews are very influential in USA and control much of the money in US politics and the US media. He also said that USA doesn't dare to make decisions in the matter because of internal reasons and that is the sad truth of US politics in the Israel/Palestine question. This short analysis is basically something to what every Finnish (and European) analyst or politician agree, but not all dare to say in public.
At once the Simon Wiesenthal center reacted to the matter and demanded through the Finnish ambassador in USA the Finnish government apologize and to kick out Pertti Salolainen from all official positions he has. The local honor chairman of the Jewish congregation Gideon Bolotowsky added fuel to the flames by "joking" in the local yellow press that Salolainen has his data from the Mein Kampf.
The local reaction was less successful to the "semite" side. The story did not became so big as the pro-Israeli side had hoped and the Finnish political elite was wondering what was wrong in the short analysis Salolainen had made and the media went mostly in the "defensive mode". The 72 year old experienced and rather respected politician was furious of the treatment he had received from the Jewish lobby (US and local). Though I suppose younger Finnish politicians and experts are in future careful with analyzing the Jewish "system" and "influence" after seeing the treatment Salolainen got. Some years ago the present Finnish FM Erkki Tuomioja got his share of this harsh "anti-Semitism" treatment when he wondered why some use against Palestinians same kind of politics they themselves suffered in the 30s.
Free speech seems to be a bit problematic for "semites". No politician (anayst etc) seems to be not allowed to say what they think about the Israel/Palestine question and Jewish role if that what say is not approved by "non-existent lobby". It is like in the former Soviet Union. Tell the official "truth" or vanish.
Well Hebron and the extreme Israeli Jewish right wing nationalists is the best what has happened to Palestinians. No more Israel can pretend to be the victim and the poor little democracy in defense. Israeli Jewish racism and cruelty is now so obvious, that the pro-Israeli counter propaganda has less and less effect. The so called Israeli leftists and centrists were more clever in the past. They managed rather successfully to hide the effects of occupation and the Israeli Zionist strategy in the robbery of lands. Though they did (=allowed) exactly the same that is now done.
Lieberman and his merry company are worth more than 100,000 Qassams and several divisions of trained soldiers. For Palestinians not for the "Jewish" state.
Indeed. The Israeli gruppenführers on check-points and in demonstrations must have a collection of plastic pistols and knives in their pockets to be planted every time this kind of "unexplained" murder happens. With such plastic guns it is easy to compose a self defense story to cover a murder and war crime.
It is more than certain that Israel has cameras at the checkpoints, also at this in question. Why do they not show evidence in form of pictures and videos of this incident? Israel doesn't normally hesitate if they have video evidence supporting their story. Maybe because it did not happen like Israelis now claim. Lets hope the Palestinian journalist got pictures of that Israeli check point crew to be used in future when these murders are in front of courts.
I once had a discussion with my former neighbor, an extreme Cristian, about Israel/Palestine, just after she had visited Israel on a religious pilgrimage. She claimed, that Palestinian were against the Jewish rule only because they are Muslims and because of Islam. My points, that many Palestinians are Christians and when Palestinians defend their livelihoods and properties it is not the question of religion, it is a question of resisting a robbery, had no "effect". She was only blaming Islam for everything even of the killing of Palestinian children. Finally I tried to "educate" her that also Christians can kill and steal. I said in Rwanda both sides were Christian tribes and a million were killed. To that she said: African black people are not real Christians. I withdraw from our "theological" debate speechless.
Military significance means that in this case the Gaza rockets are a military threat to Israel. The Gaza rockets have at the best some psychological significance as a threat to the Israeli civil population, but certainly the rockets are no significant military threat to Israel militarily. A much bigger military significance in the military circumstances of Gaza would be achieved with modern anti-tank and air defense weapons or high power snipper rifles.
Gaza rockets have been and are a "God given" present to Israeli regime. Israel has had much more propagandist benefits of those primitive weapons than Hamas has had. Without those rockets Israel would have been demanded to end the siege of Gaza long ago and Israel's possibilities in the settlement expansions would have much more limited. The rockets have worked only as a "safety valve" to reduce the growing frustration among Palestinians. Militarily and politically those rockets have been a disaster for Palestinians.
The reality is that traffic is still a more significant mortal threat for southern Israeli population than Gaza rockets have been. In the area of "Gaza rocket influence" cars driven by Jews kill and have killed many more Jews than rockets from Gaza.
Mentioned for example in this article
Amusingly in the end of the article is said:
"Fajr 5 rockets can be fired from the back of a 6x6 truck to hit targets up to 75 kilometres (46 miles) away. This compares to a range of between four and 13 kilometres for the Qassam rockets."
How many seconds would a heavy 6x6 truck with Fajr-5 (or 3) launching systems (over 10 meters long) have time if they appear to the streets of Gaza. Also astonishing is how Iran would manage to smuggle such massive launching systems to Gaza. Massive even without the truck.
Israeli propaganda has interesting pictures of pieces of Fajr-5 and equal large rockets
example
older example
Notice how both large objects have soft landed from the sky without any marks on the ground. :)
Israel claims constantly Hamas firing Fajr-3 and Fajr-5 artillery rockets. Both are very long (5 - 7 meters) and heavy (400 - 900 kg) artillery rockets. To put these rockets to a firing position demands manpower, machines and special launching platforms. They are not like these light and mobile Qassams which can be moved by a couple a men, do not demand launching tubes and can be prepared to launch in a very short time (some tens of seconds). It is impossible to believe that Hamas could use same hidden launching tubes for these giant artillery rockets more than one time. Even more difficult is to believe that Israel would not know about these hidden launching platforms.
The list of Iranian weapons in use of Hamas is "amusing". Why would Iran smuggle to Gaza basic weapons like mortar shells, Grad rockets etc which could be easily bought from Egyptian black markets? It would be much easier to give a suitcase full of dollars and say to Pals buy what you need. Why (and how) would Iran smuggle to Gaza long and heavy artillery rockets which demand special launching systems are almost impossible to be used in the tactical situation Hamas soldiers are (small area + complete Israeli air superiority and extremely developed spying systems).
By claiming constantly Iranian weapons to exist in hands of Hamas and those few successful long rage rocket launchings (which I doubt come from Gaza and are fired by Palestinians) is aimed to get needed excuse to act against Iran.
When a young Palestinian boy (citizen or occupied) throws a stone the police "finds" him in a short time with the certainty of over 95 percent. When Jews burn mosques, destroy olive trees, shoot at Palestinians, write "kill Arabs" graffitis, arson houses where migrants are presently living, stab non-Jews (Pals and migrants) the polices solution percent seems to be under 5 percent. The racist crimes Israeli Jews are carrying out now almost daily are so serious, that the western and Israeli press would get a fit of rage if these acts would be done against Jews in Israel or elsewhere.
Well some "sources" say that (some) Jews think that stealing from a non-Jew is not a sin or even not killing a gentile. Maybe a pro-Israeli extremist should forget speaking about sins.
Fredblogs how many Israeli surprised Jewish Irgun and Stern Gang terrorist you suppose there are now in "hell"? Or modern time soldiers who had by"mistake"dropped a 1000 kg bomb on a residential building (or UN soldiers) or fired a tank gun by "mistake" on civilians. Not to mention those who fired phosphorous on schools etc. A lot, if we believe in the concept of hell and morality.
It is rather absurd constantly to portray the suicide bombers as the top evil in the world. Jewish terrorists left bombs on market places, hotels, trains etc. What is the actual difference? The suicide bomber "punishes" himself, the normal terrorist continues planting new bombs repeating the crime. It is clear to all, even to Israelis, that it is the situation which causes the terrorism, as a form of military resistance, on Palestinian side. Palestinians do not resist because of their religion, they resist because of their assets are stole and life is in danger. Israeli Jews can not say that their religion is not the primary "motive" behind the exploitation, genocide and landgraping done by them. Only Judaism sets out those who are Jews and so Israel as a Jewish state. Jews are a real nation only when a Jew can be a Muslim (or Christian etc) and still be considered as a Jew.
Well NormanF I love Tahiti and other tropical islands. I mention them all the time in my prayers especially during the harsh Finnish winters. So actually the islands belong to me and my offspring.
The only argument Jews have towards the right to rule Israel is in the end the religious one. Even a completely atheistic (if it is possible) or secular Jew has to admit it. Judaism is a simply a religion, not a race.
Jerusalem is mentioned also in Christian prayers and psalms so there is an equal cultural/religious "justification" which Jews use in their claims for the land in Palestine. So didn't a Catholic Polish farmer have an equal right to Israel/Palestine than a Polish Jewish doctor had? Both had a equal "love towards Jerusalem" and both could not prove that their ancestors were really from the ancient Israel.
The Iranian / Hizbollah link of that AMIA bombing was basically not supported with real evidence. The accusations against Iran became stronger only when the chance to find real factual evidence had become almost non existent. The astonishing "events" cane read from
link to en.wikipedia.org
Are you really serious? You define Q.E.D. because something happened in Argentina 18 years ago on this date. Why did the Iranians wait 18 years?
Can we using your logic then draw the conclusion that every terrorist attack done on April 9 is done by Jewish terrorists? Like you say can way say: "Who can say that history cannot repeat itself and Israelis will pull something like that again?" Q.E.D. By the way on April 9, 1948 took place the Deir Yassin massacre. There are tens if not hundreds of dates which could be used as "an anniversary" of massacres, terrorist attacks, assassinations etc done by Israelis.
Well who should be condemned besides in general such incidents, when it is obvious that there is not yet any real "crime scene data" available even for the Israelis. Of course we all are sorry of the loss of the life of the innocent in this and other cases.
The Israeli blaming Iran is so far based simply on the "evidence" that on the same date happened an attack 18 years ago in Argentina. The situation is now that Israeli leaders blame Iran and the world's other leaders condemn the attack. So Israel gets its desired propaganda effect.
There are tens of organizations and several countries which would have the motive and means to organize such an attack. Turks could revenge the flotilla and weaken Israel by forcing it to another unnecessary war or European Nazis could be behind. Saudi (Sunni) could be behind this knowing perfectly well that Israelis would blame Iran in all cases. Palestinians could be guilty. Who benefits most of this attack? Surely not Iran or Hizbollah.
What has the present Syrian situation to do with Israeli decades long occupation and ruthless religious racism? Nothing as even you pro-Israelis say,when somebody blames Israel for the violence in Syria. Does what happens now in Syria make everything alright with what Israel has done and is doing? Jewish settlements on Arab land are "nothing" because in Syria people are killed.
It will be "interesting" to see one day how the Israeli Jewish leadership and the Haredi army will behave, when Israeli Arabs one day get fed up with their low status and bad treatment in their own country. Only then can we make real comparisons and it can be predicted that Israeli Jewish side will not "loose" in the brutality and amount of bodies.
I watched on internet sites of some of the main Swedish newspapers. At the best they shortly mentioned only that Shamir died, not the bindings to the assassination. Well much of the Swedish media is owned by "the less neutral religious side".
If Bernadotte would have been assassinated by Arabs and the person responsible for the assassination would have now died, the Swedish media had not saved space, costs and energy in their "analysis". Comparing the past decades media coverage of the disappearance of Raoul Wallenberg and the assassination of Folke Bernadotte would be an interesting academic research subject. Of Wallenberg has been written countless articles and speculations. Bernadotte's role and killing has been effectively silenced.
In Jerusalem is a Raoul Wallenberg street, but is there in Israel a street named after Folke Bernadotte? Several streets around Israel are named after his killers. Well using the Israeli "we are the victims" line they could say: Bernadotte forced us to kill him and that we can not forgive to Swedes.
Has anyone done a survey of the hundreds of thousands of Israelis who have left and will never go back?
The population figure of Israel is based on an ESTIMATE (provisional as the Israeli Central Bureau of Statistics calls it) based on the 2008 Census.
link to www1.cbs.gov.il
Normal developed industrial countries have such population database systems (personal ID, voting, tax, health care etc registers), that they can give an exact figure of the population living in the country on any given day. But not poor Israel, the "bright" light of Asia and Africa.
The real Israeli population amount, especially the amount of Jews LIVING NOW in Israel, is obviously a major state secret. Some sources estimate that even one million Israeli Jews live permanently in their "second passport" country.
The sad thing for Israelis is that Cyprus like Greece has no money.
Interesting to see how Israel will get its (= partly Lebanon's) gas to the markets. Gazprom Signs Deal for LNG Exports From Israel’s Offshore Fields
Have Israeli Jews earned the loyalty of Israeli Arabs? Israeli Arabs have numerous reasons to resist the racist/religious order in Israel.
During the cold war my country Finland was forced to lick the Soviet Unions ass in many ways of unhealthy "co-operation". Politicians were forced to speak with ever increasing liturgy about our friendship. One Finnish high politician even suggested that Finland should choose a new independence day, the day when we signed a co-operation and defense treaty with the Soviet empire. This time period was called Finnladizierung. A period of which we Finns are not very proud of even it was obviously the only way Finland could remain as a almost sovereign country.
But that was nothing compared with the present manifestations of relations / co-operation between Israel and USA. There should be made serious academic research of this Israelizierung, where a small country gets on many levels full control of a superpower's political and governmental system.
Not true. USA has paid the costs of the military occupation and Jewish Israel has also made a lot of money by having the control of Palestinian income and assets. Israeli industries and trade sector get a healthy profit of the goods and services bought for Palestine with the foreign domination money. In what else occupied area have outsiders to pay the living costs of the occupied. Not in Tibet, not in Kashmir. Lets remember that the size of Israeli economy is in reality the economy of the chosen citizens (+ "own" Arabs") and the economy of the slave people (Palestine).
Israel's economical miracle? What miracle? Israel is successful economically compared to neighboring Arab countries but not compared to West European states. It would be interesting to know how successful Arab and other countries would have been if had been blessed with millions of highly educated adult immigrants with international connections, knowhow and capital. Not to mention the constant flow of US and Jewish donations, money pumped out of Soviet Union/Russia and Holocaust "royalties" from Europe. Israel compared to the comparison group it wants to be compared - the "western" democracies - is no economical miracle. In 1968 Israel's GDP per capita was on the same level as Japan's or Italy's and ahead of Greece's or Ireland's. Now only Greece is behind Israel.
Every video in tv news (for example) is always edited and "describes" the view of the person who took it. Edited in this case only means that sections of no action are cut out or were originally not taken on the video. IDF and border police have in their vehicles cameras and they surely video all events. They could easily prove using their own video evidence, that it did not happen like shown. But they never do. Not in the Eisner's case and certainly not in this case.
Every German (and Austrian) young person had to join Hitller Jugend if they wanted to avoid severe personal and family sanctions. They had no options. Where does a 10 - 15 year old boy or girl go in a totalitarian state if he/she doesn't agree? Hitler Jugend was a nationalistic combination of scouts and political Sunday schools.
It is idiotic to claim that those teenagers had in Nazi Germany a change to radical "moral" decisions. Ratzinger went to Hitler Judend because he had to do that. Günther Grass was called to Waffen SS because ALL German boys of his age were commanded to join the army. What should those 16 - 17 years old boys have done, when even adults had no options? The young boys went to defend their country, not the political ideology or order.
Tear gas launchers are in fact grenade launchers. The difference is the ammunition, but functionality is exactly the same. Tear gas launchers / riot guns have a sight like rifles have. It is a rather absurd argument to claim that the police/soldier firing a tear gas launcher (= grenade launcher) has no possibility to aim and no control were the grenade will land. Look at the US model M-32 6 shot 40 mm launcher which can be used as a riot gun. Some example pictures of Israelis using riot guns with sights.
link to 972mag.com
link to english.al-akhbar.com
Well what do you Giladg think about those "romantic" former Pols, Germans, Russians and Americans who patrol in Palestine convinced that they have the right to those lands because they claim that their God gave it to them 4000 years ago.
Of course Iran is militarily no threat to anybody. The country is barely able to defend its own territory. It has a badly outdated air force, a weak coastal navy etc. Iran is no match in a traditional war against Saudis, Pakistan, USA etc. Every military expert knows that. Iran has the military capacity to make an attack against it relative expensive to the attacker, but that is all.
The only reason why Iran is seen as a threat is that it doesn't obey USA and the west. Iran is seen as a threat because it has shown its potential in becoming a real regional power, the nuclear issue is only a pretext which can not be solved. An industrially developed 80 million peoples' Iran with its huge natural (= financial in the end) resources is a nightmare to Israel especially when that Iran is not in the famous US leash. A five million Jews' state can only be the leading dominant regional power if big countries like Iran, Egypt and Turkey are hindered to develop and lead to long internal wars. Israel has actively supported the breaking of Sudan not because it loves democracy and the idea that people should have the right to govern themselves, but because it wants that same to happen in all Middle East except naturally in Israel/Palestine.
Sensitive? Why? Facts are facts. Jews are surely not and have not been the Romani people of Europe. We all know the numerous Nobel prices and famous Jewish business families and their achievements. Name one ethnic minority which has succeeded better in the field of education and wealth?
The Poland education facts can be found on the page
link to en.wikipedia.org
One example of the wealth of the Jews is the claim that one third of the German costs of WW2 was financed with the properties taken from Jews.
link to haaretz.com
As said Jews were a small minority in Germany in the 30's. Small but rich.
I find it a bit absurd how the same people can in one sentence brag about the achievements of their brothers and sisters in religion and in the next sentence describe how abused they are and have always been. The indisputable achievements of the Jews are well known. These achievements are not possible for people treated as the lowest in the society.
Also an interesting and less explained point in the Jewish "history" is how Jews managed to become the best educated and richest minority in Europe and USA. An astonishing achievement for a minority which claims all the time being undermined and heckled. Sure what happened in WW2 was a great tragedy, but most of time Jews had rather good times compared for example to Romani people.
Before WW2 in Poland Jews were excellently represented in professions like doctors (56% of all doctors in Poland), teachers (43%), journalists (22%) and lawyers (33%). Jews represented then about 10 percent of the population. Hardly possible for a pariah ethnic/religious group. Imagine that in Israel over much 50 percent of doctors or one third of lawyers would be Israeli Arabs (20 percent of the population). Then we could not speak about Apartheid, we would speak about the majority's dissatisfaction with the "situation" .
Avner Cohen doesn't mention in his Haaretz article the most important fact. That the Osirak reactor was a small light water research reactor, built by the French and under IAEA supervision. Producing enough plutonium for a nuclear bomb with that reactor would have been impossible and Israelis knew that. Osirak was a Israeli message to the Arab world - "We do not allow you to become industrially and technologically developed". Operation Opera (Osirak bombing) was a as heroic military operation as the bombing of Lebanese dairy plant (Liban Lait) was. The defence around the reactor was primitive and almost not existing. Operation Opera was a great military victory only in the Israeli Jewish folklore and propaganda.
Claiming that Iran would give nuclear materials to terrorist organizations is rather absurd. What guaranties does the world have that Israeli nuclear materials do not get in the hands of extreme Jewish terrorist organizations. What is the guaranty that if a peace is achieved through a two state solution the settlers "brown shirts" do not leave a nuclear "price tag" greeting. None - especially when those religious/nationalistic extremists have members on every level of the "system".
And the "amusing" thing is that the chemical weapons and technology to deliver them was sold by the "West" to Arabs and Iranians. USA delivered to Saddam the gas weapon and Israel made healthy profits by selling battle gas technology and components to Iran. Rather hypocritical that US and Israeli outrage of the gassing of the Kurds during Iraq Iran war.
Yonira have you ever bothered to think why are they shooting those primitive mostly nobody hurting rockets from Gaza? It is asthonishing how "you" always pretend to be victims. On the other hand what have the crimes of others to do with the punishment of Israeli crimes. Equally could be said that German SS and leaders were punished, Israeli "SS" and leaders have / are not.
If the "Gaza rockets" give a justification for Israelis to kill Palestinian women and children, then Palestinians have also a justification to kill scores of Israelis. With the 1:1 ratio the Palestinians have already a rather big revenge "opportunity" in this your "Gaza rockets" way of moral. For the last 60 years Israeli Jews have not been the passive receivers, they have been the active aggressors.
If a religious/ethnic group was/is in reality treated like shit, they do not get positions in the upper owning classes and man the educational institutions in a completely disproportional ratio. They would be beggars and at the best do the lowest ranked jobs in the society. Were the Jews that? No.
Somehow the Jewish history writing is a strange mixture of whining of constant pogroms (A) and "fierce" bragging of unquestionable and remarkable social achievements (B). The problem is that if A is true B can not be. Or if B is true A is not. Lets take the Polish example. If Jews were persecuted in that amount Jewish history writing wants us to believe, how could a 10 percent minority "produce" over halve of the country's doctors (etc)?
This constant playing the victim role is a bit annoying even knowing that it is propaganda. The most economically and educationally successful minority in Europe have been the Jews. And it has been that already for a long time. It might be a surprise to many that in Poland before the WW2 56 percent of all doctors were Jews, 43 % of teachers, 22% of journalists and 33 % of layers. An astonishing achievement for a 10 % percent minority (imagine if the Palestinians had such representation in those professions, could we then speak of a pariah minority).
Jews in general represented the wealthier upper and middle classes in Europe and Arab countries. Surely there were dark periods but in general Jews were not in the status of the Israeli Palestinians of our times or the Romani people of Europe. Jews have been ministers and prime ministers "outside" Israel, not to mention the countless professors, influential bankers and media owners.
Sure I know. Christmas is celebrated on the old pagan holiday, winter solstice. Anyway, Christmas with the name Christmas is a Christian holiday and Judaism has a bit "difficult" relationship with Jesus, whose birthday is celebrated on Christmas. Now when Israel is in a very much emphasising its Jewish character as a country it is a rather hypocritical to pretend to be a secular country. For Judaism inviting guests to celebrate Christmas is encouraging to celebrate a holiday on a false (for them) prophet's birthday. If somebody should invite the Chilean miners to the Holy Land it is the Christian Churches and people of Bethlehem, not a Jewish right-wing extremist minister.
Well what is the reason then for inviting them, if it is not purely the propagandist aim? Israel is a self declared Jewish nation which doesn't celebrate Christmas and Chilean miners are mostly Catholics. This invitation is as hypocritical as it would be inviting the miners to Mecca or Tehran to celebrate Christmas. Actually more because Islam gives more "authority" to Jesus than Judaism does.
Is Israel beginning to claim Christmas as "their" holiday and beginning to build a image for Israel as the Santa Claus home country?
Well Baruch if UN would make a hypothetical partition plan where 50 percent of your land and properties would be taken in return for nothing you would surely resist. Of course those who get are "happy" and those who have by force to give are not "happy".
If UN would now make a new partition plan for all Israel / Palestine and give 50 percent of the lands to both Jews and Palestinians. Who would Baruch be now stupid and resist the division plan? Hardly the Palestinians and Arabs in general. Not even the generous division plan with 67 borders is enough for Israeli Jews. Stupid isn't it?
CIA - the world handbook doesn't tell that Israel would be the 4th among EU states with GDP (PPP) per capita. Before Israel are Luxembourg, Ireland, Netherlands, Austria, Sweden, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, UK, Germany, Spain, France, Spain, Greece, Italy and Slovenia. Maybe Witty you have your own internet Mossad CIA handbook with own "facts".
The notion that Israel is important and becoming more significant to EU and rest of the world is hilarious if we speak about the economy and what Israel produces. Nothing produced in Israel is vital to EU or the world and is or could be produced easily elsewhere.
Turkey is ten times bigger than Israel in population size and its economy is 4.5 times bigger than Israel's. For Turkey to flourish it needs regional peace and stability. Israel's business idea is based solely on regional instability and chaos, on which Israel's disproportional political influence is based. Turkey has much trade with neighbours. Israel basically none.
Israel nukes and aggressive attitude are a threat to Turkey like they are to all in the neighbourhood, including EU. It is certain that the EU and other (China,Turkey, Indonesia etc) troops on Lebanese border monitor and gather information much more of Israel's procedures, actions and forces than they monitor Hezbollah. Let's remember the Israeli acts against German spy ships after Lebanon war.
The only state in the region that has unconditionally rejected the existence of another state in the region is Iran.
Come-on. Iran has not rejected the existence of Israel. The only one who de facto is rejecting the existence of a state in the region is Israel. If not why wasting billions (US money) in building settlements on another states side. Arabs, Palestinians and Iranians have several times informed that they can live with 1967 borders. The problem has been and is Israel, which pursues regional dominance.
Witty your propaganda is amusing. Israel would not be the number 4 in GDP per capita among EU members. Not with GDP (PPP) or nominal GDP per capita figures. Behind Israel are only the new East European member states. One of the top 14 in GDP among all EU members? Funny. EU has 27 members of which several have a smaller population compared to Israel, Baltic states, Malta, Cyprus, Luxenbourg etc which causes the Israel's position with a bigger population. Iran would be higher on the same list than Israel would be. Not to mention Turkey.
I do not understand from where you fanatical Israel supporters get your GDP data. Israel is not especially rich or advanced compared to western countries. Israel is in no way important or vital for EU in economical terms. Neither is it for Middle Eastern countries. Israel's importance is solely based on the military and political disturbance it creates and USA's support.
Claiming that Turkey and Israel officially reconciled yesterday is "positive Israeli thinking" after a one hour meeting between the presidents. Turkey has lately clearly signalled that it is "number one" in the region, not Israel. Turkey has also signalled that it doesn't tolerate the instability Israel is creating in the region. Nothing in that aspect has changed. Let us notice it is the Israeli officials and politicians who visit Turkey and/or want to meet with Turks. Not Turks visiting Israel. That shows that Israel is now the underdog in the regional rivalry. Soon Israel and its supporters must understand that Israel is a small country with the muscles of a small country.
Hamas has clearly several times said that 67 borders are OK for them. Do you Witty truly believe that Israel favours a two-state solution? Israel favours a two state model where the other state has no land or that the other state is Jordan.
zionist rejectionist
a person who rejects a a policy demanded by the majority of the world, esp. a Jew or Israel supporter who refuses to accept peace with Palestinians and Arabs using old religious claims that God promised the land to them.
Well that is amusing - hold accountable (with limits). When has USA held Israel accountable? Not after 1956.
Both economically and militarily this "brother’s keeper” relationship doesn't make any sense to USA. In 2008 USA exported to Israel worth 5.5 billion Euro and imported from there worth 13.6 billion. So the trade deficit was 8.1 billion. If we add to it the billions in loans and donations this relationship doesn't make any economical sense to USA .
Militarily the relationship doesn't give any "help" to USA in Middle East. USA can not use Israeli troops in coalitions around Middle East. The ability to use occasionally Israeli airports and harbours is not worth the costs. Israel is useful as a partner in war only in a total war.
From the aspect of democracy and free trade Israel is a huge political and diplomatic covenant for USA.
Same conclusions could be made with the Israel EU relationship, besides the fact that EU had in 2008 a 3 billion surplus in the trade with Israel.
Well if Israel had the right to be created through invasion and ethnic cleansing in modern times then the Arabs have the same right to do the same in future.
This pro-Israeli defence "you have done the same" is idiotic. The majority of Jews live as a tiny majority among "others". The reality with Israeli Jews is that they are surrounded by hundreds of millions of Arabs and Muslims. It is naive to believe that Israel could manipulate the geopolitical "system" so successfully for the next 50 - 100 years that the balance of power would stay in Israel's favour. In the end Arabs will unite and pop the pimple. What is done now determines how the pimple popping is done.
If "we" now approve the ethnic cleansing and apartheid system done by Jews, "we" hardy can morally judge when after 25 years from now the Gaza inhabitants are replaced by some millions of Jews. Or can "we"?
Both Judaism and Islam have their own religious laws and a legal system based on it. Some use it most do not.
Islam accepts people from every race to be a "member". Judaism is a much more closed club. So in that accept Judaism is more racist.
When Jews were in Warsaw ghetto and camps, where were the Zionist leaders? In Soviet Union, Britain, Palestine and USA protected by foreign governments. So yonira let's not be hypocritical.
It is interesting to read the comments in Israeli press about the Turkish "development". Israelis seem to believe that Turkey's new attitude exists simply because a "religious" party has the power. They do not seem to understand that what Turkey is doing are done because Turkey is the major power in the region, not Israel, and now it has decided to show its real weight. The chaos Israel is deliberately creating in the region hurts Turkish economical and security interests.
Israelis seem not to understand if Europe and USA are forced to choose between Turkey and Israel the result is Turkey. Without Turkey on board EU can forget the vital energy links from Middle East. EU and USA simply can not afford Turkey to "glide" closer to Russia and China. Israelis seem honestly to believe that Israel is important in economical and military sense to Europe. But it is rather difficult to understand on what that belief is founded.
Then Carnas when "we" speak about the occupation of France in WW2 or Warsaw Ghetto so we should always remember to mention that also Germans were killed.
Of course Israeli Jews have been killed during the occupation. However it could fairly be said that if Israeli Jews had ended the occupation and found a solution there would have not been those killed Israeli Jews. So long the Israeli Jews are not willing to end the violent occupation and enslavement Palestinians only option is to make the price of occupation so high to Israelis that they are willing to find a peaceful solution. If Israeli continue this present line for the next lets say 25 years there will be a plenty more of killed Jews. Should we be more sad about those future killed Jews or more of that that Israel doesn't want to make justified fair solution?
You did forget to mention the help Israel gave to Idi Amin for his coup.
Especially if Palestinians begin to use Israeli tactics. Roadblocks, security fences around the settlements, demolishing houses without a Palestinian building permit, allowing extreme Muslims to create settlements inside settlements, denying the usage of Holocaust in school bocks, giving halve of the money Palestinian schools get to Jewish schools, allowing extreme groups to make marches inside the settlements etc. How could Israel blame Palestine for behaving as Israel does?
Is Hamas building the new settlements mr. Witty? Blaming Hamas for the settlement policy and expansion is positively said hilarious, negatively said insane. The settlement policy was started before Hamas even existed and all Israeli governments have favoured it.
Surely some Palestinians and others can with relative rational arguments claim that by not allowing the two state solution Israel in the end destroys the Jewish nation when Palestinians get the majority. But it is the Israeli Jews who carry out the occupation and gradual land theft.
Syvänen should we build an illegal settlement near St Peterburg or even in Moscow? Before that we must naturally attend to an intensive course arranged by Israeli settlers. Though I suppose that Putin's Slavic "Palestinians" would not welcome us and the local "PA troops" would kick us out in a millisecond. So we will have to continue our diaspora from our promised lands. But to Kalevala must be fast added that Ukko main god promised us everything west of Ural mountain chain. To keep future options open. :)
Well Syvänen we Finno-Ugrian tribes once "owned" most of European Russia, not only the places on which we now have to "exist" and pushed to by the "bad" Slavic tribes. There still exist quite large Finno-Ugrian tribes in Russia.
Maybe we should "learn" from Israelis and declare that Moscow and St. Petersburg actually belong to us. With the case of St. Petersburg the ownership issue is easy to prove without an ancient religious book. Tsar Peter the Great built it on the swamps inhabited by the Ingrians. With Moscow's ownership we need a bit more creative history interpretation. One theory suggests that the source of the name Moscow is an ancient Finnic language, in which it means “dark” and “turbid”. :)
Israelis must have hired the same PR company which took care of creating the public image for Talebans. So extreme and religiously/ideologically motivated have the latest "announcement" of GOI and different Jewish religious groups have became.
Yes, the Supreme Court ruled, yes– the Palestinians were evicted in accordance with the law and yes, the Jews who moved in there did so legally.
I must wonder the Israeli juridical system which gives the Jew the possibility to make land and property claims to decades old (not those biblical claims) disputed ownership claims, like those in Hebron and East Jerusalem, but not gives the same rights to Palestinians. Why can a Jew claim the ownership to something he owned long before 1948 but the Arabs can’t do the same. The only explanation is that the whole Israeli legal system is profoundly racist.
If the Israeli supreme court opens Jewish pre 48 and 67 ownership cases on the area which is internationally considered as Palestinian area so should the Palestinian cases inside the "Jewish area" be opened. To how many houses could the Israeli Palestinians, not to mention the other Palestinians, move, if the same justifications would be handeled in a non-racist way?