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The War of Ideas in the Middle East
i'm not a facist, and i support an end to the occupation, but not at any cost and not without adressing israeli concerns as well. but not this circus of "million man marches to jerusalem", or any of the other incidences in this self absorbed crusade. this isn't a productive way of relating to conflict. israelis have legitimate concerns that come from looking around the region. you'll never accept it, but there it is.
talkback, suicide bombers destroyed the israeli left. the israeli left used to have the power to withdraw, but they had to provide an end to terrorism, which they couldn't do, and neither can you people. they promised it and they got attacks instead. if you feel that you can, by all means hop on the next plane to iraq and start working with the militias there. once you've convinced them that planting car bombs in the street to kill members of another tribe you'll have the experience you need to stabilize the situation between hamas and israel.
you understand very well that israel is the only place in the region where you can indulge in this, and at the end of the day that's why people like you are so unwelcome in israel. the tone of the activist left immediately shifts when the personal safety level is reduced like in most of the muslim countries. you can try protesting against the deeply held beliefs, convictions and communal challenges of people there, but it would be a stupid idea.
besides, you can't catch the same feeling of a glorious crusade for justice when you're fearing for your physical well being. what would be the point?
because there is a war, an unresolved conflict going on. the middle east is up in flames, didn't you notice? you can cross to gaza from egypt if the authorities there let you so you can start there for now. and lots of activists are in the west bank, which is pretty good for the current state of affairs, and after all the trauma and insanity.
why start with israel? after all this time of the international left myopically focusing on israel while the rest of the middle east goes crazy, the left has lost the credibility it once had in israel. why not go to another middle eastern country fraught with ethnic conflict and start there? say lebanon or iraq? you could go protest the islamic under pinnings of the egyptian legal system, or you could take your crusade of justice to iraq and use your wonderful ideals to turn it into a safe place for minorities.
the occupation is still there because after all of the insanity we witness in the arab / muslim world, and the suicide bombings and rockets from hamas and the religious craziness no one in israel believes leaving will bring peace. so if you want to change it, and sway things in israel back to the left you can start by creating a working model for respect for minority communities in other places that have seen ethnic conflict. you'll have some authority behind you then, a working example with which to assuage israelis justified concerns. fact is nobody wants to be flooded with hostile enemies who did suicide bombings and incite against you all day, especially not when they can look with their eyes and see how screwed the rest of the middle east is.
Alison Bodine, for example, was recently barred from canada for being a hippy protester. check out her website and you'll see what i mean. no problem, it's not so shocking as you guys are making it out to be.
as the canadian government is quick to remind citizens traveling abroad: "It is the sole prerogative of each country or region to determine who is allowed to enter." that is true of every country. if you want, you can go ahead and test it with canada or the european nations. when gangs of hippy protesters stream in to riot for G8 meetings and the like people get rejected at the border too. or try your hand at any of the decrepit and dysfunctional nations of the muslim world. i'm sure they'll be thrilled to host you guys.
i also linked to a documentary. go there if you like. or try talking to some mizrachi jews.
supporters from every party from march 14th and march 8th is present there
that's what amkes it interesting. you can read the same sentiments on the oragne room, the tayaar forum.
"Imagine if tried to give you a full account of the way European people all over the world felt by linking you to a discussion over at StormFront."
BS. first of all i wasn't giving any account about how lebanese people felt. at all. read the thread. i was pointing to a post in arabic by an iraqi jew. youa re twisting what i did. that's one
two - kaeteb and lebanese forces have more seats than hizballah and as many as aouns movement. they represent combined as many christians in lebanon as aoun does. that's two.
three - they are facists huh? what are the plo who committed the massacre at damour? and who is walid joumblatt? and who is nabbih berri. is he without blood on his hands?
finde the innocent, pacifist party from lebanons civil war years. they all fought. and they all committed crimes..
you can ignore them if you want. it's hardly the point of my post. if you want to learn about the mizrachim you can. if not, you won't
i also linked to a documentary. go there if you like. or try talking to some mizrachi jews.
supporters from every party from march 14th and march 8th is present there
that's what amkes it interesting. you can read the same sentiments on the oragne room, the tayaar forum.
"Imagine if tried to give you a full account of the way European people all over the world felt by linking you to a discussion over at StormFront."
BS. kaeteb and lebanese forces have more seats than hizballah and as many as aouns movement.
they are nazis huh? what are the plo who committed the massacre at damour? and who is walid joumblatt? and who is nabbih berri. is he without blood on his hands?
finde the innocent, pacifist party form lebanons civil war years. please.
you can ignore them if you want. it's hardly the point of my post. if you want to learn about the mizrachim you can. if not, you won't
the thread began as a response to the false claim that the mosque arsonists had been released.
that was not true. they are on house arrest until their trial completes.
immediately it went to shit. i asked for a source, and got insults.
if you can't link to someone connected to the civil war you can't connect to the lebanese!
everyone in lebanon has blood on there hands.. every political party.. don't play make believe here.... no political party from the era is clean.
i was pointing to a post by an iraqi jew. the issue at hand was the claim that mizrachi jews went by their own accord, unlike the palestinains. it's not true.
that forum sees hizballah supporters, aoun supporters, hariri supporters, gaegae supporters, apolitical people, arabs form across the arab world, israelis, americans.. everybody posting there. it's an interesting place. lebanon is a complex place politicly.
but whatever
?????
they call themselves arabs!! palestinains and israeli arabs do that on their own! they identify themselves as arabs nobody needs to do it for them. mizrachi jews do not! that is the difference.
good god...
Ethnic minorities in Egypt are formed by Nubians, Berbers, Bedouins, Arabs, Beja and Dom.
in north africa the berbers do not identify as arab
in lebanon many maronites do not identity as arab
the assyrians do not as well
and neither do most mizrachi jews
you will learn to deal with it eventually. people define their identity. not others. i identify others as arabs when they identify themselves that way. i am not int he habbit of foisting my identity onto others.
"Egyptians, for example, are ethnically … Egyptians. You know, those pyramid guys. A lot of them coverted to Christianity, some of them never converted again to Islam."
egyptians are not an homogenous ethnic group. there are many ethnicities in egypt. influence from africa, arabia and the maghreb. the arab world as well is not the same in ethnicity. when the arabs spread they spread with them their language and culture and religion. some took it on and some did not. that's a personal matter for the ones making the decision. not you.
today in the middle east copts, berbers, kurds, assyrians, jews and maronites, and kurds define themselves as separate from arabs. they hold for themselves ethnic identities that distinguish themselves from the arab majority. that's their business.
go tell the assyrians they are arab.
they are not and they will tell you they aren't
because they do not define themselves that way
and they choose to see themselves as a nation separate from the arabs
as many maronites do
and many jews do, so do the berbers.
how mizrachim define themselves is their business. not your.
i was just reporting how they identify. they tend to vote religious nationalist parties, they are not running to join the arab world
just because arab nationalism came and laid claim to everything middle eastern doesn't make it true.
potsherd
go tell the assyrians in iraq they are arab
i'm sure they will be happy
and tell you how yes they are arab
despite the fact that they predate the arab expansion out of arabia
you know, not everybody identifies with arab nationalism. the minorities of the middle east are allowed to maintain an identity separate from the arabs. it's not a crime for an assyrian, or a kurd to have their own identity.
berbers.. copts.. jews.. assyrians.. maronites
all predate mohammeds conquest out of arabia.
speaking english doesn't make you an englishman
and speaking arabic doesn't make you an arab
i have a quote for you
i am not here to tell you israel is righteous
just that it is not what you make it out to be.
israel and it's complex conflict with the arabs brings you a feeling of righteousness.
this is what i see. the snide comments, the over bearing name calling. calling me "zio"...
educate yourself on the history of the jews and arabs
before israel
the jews have been there since before islam, the history is long
and here's a quote to leave you guys with:
"Beware the righteous, for they are righteous when they are right, and they are righteous when they are wrong; they navigate by a missionary compass, and when it loses its North, they steer with conviction toward the South, unknowing"
"Goddamit, Cliff, can’t you see that if Jews are not given leave to commit every historical crime, and in the name of Judaism, well, it’s worse than the Holocaust!"
israel isn't a crime
israel is a necessity
can you explain to me how jews from iraq (and other arab states) will go to iraq (and other arab states) to live?
never mind that they don't want to leave..
it's what happened
you want to know why i told you
why did they go to israel? because there was no where else.
i never said it's fair
war isn't fair
they drove the jews against a wall and then tried to finish the job. this is how the mizrachim view it
and now they live in a state with jews from all over the world
and they won't leave.
i suggest you watch interviews with survivors
they talk about how the arabs related to the jews.
these are two distinct communities
an arab left a comment on the video.. translate it...
ايام الفرهود كانت بسبب حماقات مفتي القدس امين الحسيني وعقلية رشيد عالي ويوم قتل الملك غازي وظفت تلك العملية ضد يهود العراق الاصلاء نهبت المحلات وقتل المئات دون اي ذنب وسميت بالغوغاء الاعمى بعدها توقف شريان الاقتصاد. يهود العراق صاحب ثاني اقدم تلمود بالعراق.. فاضل شناشيل
the palestinains pay for it because the refugees had nowhere else.
it's unfair
it's a circumstance of life
they are paying for the mistakes of their brothers
reject framing it arab and jew all you want
that's how it's framed in the middle east these are two distinct communities with a gulf between them the size of the grand canyon to ignore it is to jam your head into the sand
actually it's a repeating theme with the palestinain cause
outsiders latched onto it for their own reasons and in the name of the movement sabotaged palestinian aspirations for their own position
arabnationalist.. islamist movements.. and you guys
playing the same game
latching onto the palestinains because you have an ideological ax to grind
turning to populism was the biggest mistake they amde
"Why do the Palestinians have to pay"
circumstance
life isn't fair
their brothers drove the jews out and they paid the price
where did they think they would go? they would go to the only state that could accept them
and of course they would fight to hold it
they had nowhere else
back home they were screaming itbach al yahud
i'm citing someone who lived it
you can watch the video instead
interviews with people who were there
"And are you saying the Jewish exodus from the Arab countries happened before and was the pretext for the creation of Israel?"
the rise of arab nationalism happened before and was the pretext for jewish exodus. it is why half of israels jewish population holds onto israel and will never "return" to iraq, yemen, morocco etc.
the farhud was years before israel became a state
the fez pogrom too
the incitement, and the violence, the instability that is the arab world drove them away
when the pretense that the arab world was always wonderful to it's minorities is dropped it will eb a great day
when arabs start dealign with the copts, and the christians of iraq.. it will be a great day
it will make peace much more likely
because the arab speaking jews see how the minorities of the middle east
and will never agree to give up israel because of it.
they see how the copts live like dogs and there are no arab protests against it.. no one screams death to egypt for the state of the copts there..
"But Israelis have always expected that they would forget, slink quietly away, acknowledging the superior rights of Jews."
no i don't expect them to forget
but to remember that on the other side there are people
who suffered the same fate but dealt with it differently
who are in israel because they had no other choice
and who won't leave what they've built now
i want the arabs to stop acting righteous
"The Palestinians didn’t destroy those communities, you psycho!"
but they launched a war to destroy israel
and that is what the communities were destroyed.
the arabs, the arab nationalist movements which dominated the middele east at the time tried to purge their nations of jews, then they tried to run the jews out of the last place they held.
israel.
not gonna happen :D
war is brutal and disgusting
so? israel was the only place those jews had to go. what did you want them to do?
vanish? had the arabs not rampaged around destroying ancient jewish communities israel never would have held. of course their rampages always have bad impacts but that doesn't stop it
in lebanon, or iraq.. or yemen
as far as source, heres one.
link to lebanese-forces.org
ben zakai is an iraqi jew
his views are fairly average
translate it
and another one
link to youtube.com
interviews with survivors
القدس "المحتلة" هههه حلوة.
يروشلايم عاصمة يسرائيل غصب عن عين هادول من الإسلام والعرب. إحنا بعد ما شوفنا القتل والسجن والعذاب والتنكيل ونهب آموالنا وممتلكاتنا وآراضينا وتجاراتنا وإسقاط جنسياتنا،وفصل آلاف اليهود من مهناتهم والخدمة المدنية والحكومية، عندما فرهدوا باليهود في شوارع بغداد وشتى آنحاء العراق بسنة 1941، وإغتصبوا البنات والنساء قدام عائلاتهم، وقطعوا صدورهم وشقوا بطون الحوامل وطلعوا الجنين من آحشاء إمو وإرهاب اليهود بتهمة "جريمة الصهيونية" والتنصت على مكالماتهم وأخرتها قطعوا كل خطوط تلفون اليهود، وشنق كبار التجار اليهود. بعد كل هاي الفظاعات وصمت كل المفكرين والسياسيين والناشطين والقوميين العراقيين والعرب عامة، عندما إنقلب الكثير من المسلمين على جيرانهم اليهود بعد عشرة السنين، والذين وقفوا ودافعوا عن اليهود ورفضوا كراهية الغوغاء، كانوا موجدين، ما حد يقدر يقول ماكو كان في مواطنيين شرفاء يخافون الله، ولكنهم ما كانوا إلا قلة. للأسف إنجرف الكثير من العراقيين نحو قومية عربية ضيقة الفكر والرؤية لا تقبل بوجود الآخر. عندها وصل اليهود العراقيين، بعد وجود دام آكثر من آلفين عام في آرض بابل، إلي قناعة بأنوا ماكو إلنا مستقبل بهالبلد إللي كانت وطن إلنا. أهل أبوي وإمي طلعوا بعد ما فقدوا عشرات من الأهل في حملة الذبح بالفرهود. لما راحوا للشرطة وملابسهم مقطعة وملطخة بالدم قالولهم "أش تريدون؟؟ يلعن دينكم روحوا، إرجعوا بلدكم (يعني فلسطين ) يا نجسين يا أولاد القحاب قبل ما نساوي فيكم غير شغلات" " وفعلا راحوا عايسرائيل بجنطة واحدة. في المطار أخدو كل ذهب ستي وسفر التوراة مال معبدهم (جدي كان حاخام ببغداد) ومزقوا صورهم العائلية وقالولهم لازم تمضوا علي وثائق تسمح للحكومة العراقية بتأميم كل أموالهم ومدخراتهم بالبنك ويللا روحوا بلا رجعة
راحوا ليسرائيل وفي ايدهم أقل من عشرين دولار. سكتوا وبلعوا ألمهم ومهانتهم وما آخدوا غير ذكرياتهم. عاشوا في المعبروت (مخيمات اللاجئين ) في وصت الصحراء مع ثلاث عوائل بخيمة. أبو أبوي مات بعد ستة شهور بنوبة قلبية من الصدمة بعد ما فقد كل إشي وترك ستي آرملة تربي ٩ أطفال لحالها. الجالية اليهودية البغدادية إتشتت مثل باقي الجاليات اليهودية الشرقية. أهل إتفرقوا من آولادهم، آخوان من آخواتهم، منهم ما قدروا يتركوا العراق أو خافوا يبدو حياة من أول جديد. منهم أعتقلوا علي أيدي المخابرات السرية ومصيرهم مجهول إلى هذا اليوم مثل آخو ستي، كان اسموا حسقيل مرزوق بن صيون، وسخرية الحياة آنو كان قومي عراقي، بس في الأخر كان يهودي إبن يهودية. باقي العائلة كانت تقليدية وبعيدة عن السياسية. هيك كان حالنا. العراق اليوم آسواء بكثير والشعب متآلم كثير والفظاعات بتنعاد كل يوم في أرض دجلة والفرات. بعد كل المحن الاجتماعية والاقتصادية الشافوها آهلي في يسرائيل، صارت بيتهم ووطنهم الجديد، بكل آخطاءها و تقصيراتها ومضوا بالحياة. آني اتولدتوا بيسرائيل وكبرتوا و اتربيتوا فيها بس آتمنى يوم آشوفه لبغداد، مطرح ما عاشوا آجدادي وماتوا وانقبروا. بس آعرف آنو هاد حلم غير واقعي. شخصيا أني بفتكر آنو الإعتراف بخساراتنا وتهجيرنا آهم من آي مصاري آو تعويضات. بس هال قرار مو إلي، مشان مو عشتوا هال التجربة المريرة.
yes ending the occupation would be an economic boost
assuming things do not return to the post oslo period
that would be worse
when the busses became a killing arena
remember?
before the wall?
israel does. don't expect them to forget
of course the palestinains will stay
who are the arabs?
the arab nationalist camp that was spearheading the anti-zionist movement
nationalistic and religious leaders in yemen iraq egypt and libya (among others) completely destroyed the jewish communities of those countries.
the arabs who rampaged around baghdad during the farhud and things like that, that took place prior to israels creation
they had nowhere to go but israel
they weren't gonna stay in iraq
just like the minorities of iraq are fleeing today again
The Palestinians were the ones who suffered
and the jewish communities who were destroyed, despite existing in those lands since before mohammed rose are what?
nothing to you?
link to criminal.co.il
full house arrest - only not in prison!
alternative detention is an alternative to imprisonment until criminal proceedings are completed
it is an alternative to holding someone in remand which costs hundreds of dollars a day
"As for making fun of your English – and hebrew – it’s all in a day’s work."
i'm glad you engage yourself in such productive "work"
did you go to university for that one?
Cliff
you say fuck off to europe
i'm sure the million and some jews of iraq will be eager to "return" to britain, you racist asshole
or iraq
they can go back and get bombed out of existence just like the assyrians.
the arabs destroye 2000 year old jewish communities in iraq, egypt yemen libya algeria.. they know it.. and israel is the price they will pay for it.
rule of law is an issue
israel isn't syria, there is a court, and a newspaper to report on the corruption of the government
and there are tensions between the different branches of government
but that's irrelevant
you aren't interested in improving israels legal system, combating organized crime, or discussing the merits/cons of house arrest. you aren't interested in finding a solution to the complex dysfunctions of the middle east.
israel is here to stay
mostly because of the arabs that drove all the jews of the middle east to israel.
they are never leaving. you won't make them "go back to europe"
blah blah blah
you talk that way now
i bet when you are talking face to face it is very difference. i am sure you open your mouth like this in public.
please.
organized crime in israel isn't because the police don't want to arrest jews.
house arrest isn't a smoke screen, and yes arabs can get house arrest in israel as well
"Now you’ve gone off onto a new tangent about the Jews invested in Israel, totally irrelevant. Nobody gives a shit."
right. you have your cause, and that's what you care about. the conditions of the people living in israel is irrelevant. whether or not they get sucked into another dysfunctional arab blood bath like the one in iraq or the one in lebanon is irrelevant to you.
which is what makes this scavenging on the dysfunction of the middle east, and not productive debate.
nothing productive is happening here
it's an excuse for you to talk tough behind a keyboard.
can it - what you have here is mob behavior. You aren't interested in debating shit -
"Isn’t it rather obvious that if known Jewish criminals are running free all over Israel, attacking each other with firebombs and rockets, the police aren’t doing a whole lot to arrest them? Or to keep them in jail once arrested?"
such is the nature of organized crime. the top people are known, but tough to indict, guess what - arabs have organized crime rings too
and they are tough to crack. this is true in canada, america, israel.. all over..
that's hardly the point. there is no reasoning with you. you are rude, degrading, and most of all stupid. suck on my balls.
i'm gonna remind you once more asshole - the jews of the middle east are heavily invested in israel.. so what.. the arabs chased them from countries they've lived in for 2000 years to build a new life in israel and now you want to rob them of that as well?
you don't address anything is say.. just shout overtop HEY DORK
like grade fucking three
glad you have something to give purpose to your life
even if it's a stupid as this
choke on my dick
potsherd
You deny that the Israeli criminal mafia is running free all over Israel, with the police seemingly powerless to do anything about it?
You’re kind of butt-ignorant, aren’t you?
you are completely insane. this is what it means to be blinded by hate.
the claim regarding the mafia was that it was running loose because the israeli police don't want to arrest jews.
kapish? scroll up and read.
this is insane. this isn't a discussion, this isn't a debate. this is you deriving some sort of strange emotional fixation from traumatic conflict.
it's an opportunity to behave as a mob with anyone who disagrees with you.
fuck you guys, you are insane.
one last note.
"You couldn’t have a Jewish State in a region that was mostly Arab. Hence, the conflict, hence the interest for all sorts of intellectual reasons."
israels jewish population is itself roughly half descendant from arab countries. they left behind am arab world with an atrocious minority rights record. from history and from today.
for the most part they live in israel. and for the most part they have no intention of leaving. the arabs will have to deal with making peace with israel, because such a massive segment of israel is from the middle east. israel is the middle east. not europe. and the arabs have to deal with its existence.
fuck you guys.
this place is where people who hate israel dig through it's dirty laundry.
thank you for the clarification
to avi
או קי עכשיו העבודה גמרה
אולי עכשיו התגובות שלי יהיו מספיק טובות
אתה נמצא כאן כדי להשפיל את ישראל ויש כאן אנשים שמסכימים איתך
בסדר
אבל אל תשפיל אותי
גורם לך להיראות טיפש. יותר מאנגלית גרועה
mafiosos overrunning israel because jews don't go to prison is another example...
the claim that house arrest is a smokescreen to protect jews is another..
my basic point is all the bs here
acid throwers being released is one example
this isn't a place where people discuss israels shortcomings to improve the situation
this is a bashing arena for people who hate israel ideologically
אני עובד
אני חייב לרוץ פה
אולי אתה יכול להתמודד עם מה שאמרתי
במקום לעשות צחוק מהאנגלית שלי
אתה ממש יכול לקרא עברית ואתה עדיין מסוגל לאומר שמתנחלים שזרקו חומצה שוחררו??
אתה לא יכול לקרוא עיתונים?
לא משנה אם אתה תומך במתנחלים. לאומר את זה, זה לשקר
ברור. רק צריך לקרוא לראות את זה
המידע הוא בעברית ואנגלית
זה אמת או אתה עוד ג 'וקר עם גווגל טראנסלאית?
dude!
you said acid throwers were released, not me
i can't believe i am playing this game with you.
but heres the english article
link to haaretz.com
"The legislation will formally pardon about 400 of 482 people against whom minor criminal charges were filed - mainly teenage boys and girls. Most of those convicted have already completed their sentences
"It does not pardon those accused of crimes that endangered human life, and involved use of explosives or serious violence, or those who had a previous criminal record. "
SOURCES are a must especially when you are spewing BS opinions like yours
"House arrest is common in Israel because the authorities are afraid to lock up Jews"
excuse me?? source? this is why teitel was just arrested?
"which is why Israel is overrun with criminal mafiosi whom the police never seem to be able to touch"
nonsense.
you can say anything you want about israel
"israel is this and that" without knowing how to speak the language, and without a source
excuse me
i asked you to provide me with a link
that any of the released did this
and you come back with this link?
come on i'm not dumb
palestinains aren't tried by israeli courts
they are tried in military court
israeli arabs are and yes, they do get house arrest as well. do you read hebrew? prison is expensive.
hosue arrest is common in israel while investigations are pending
prison is expensive and israel isn't that rich
link to ynet.co.il
the issue is you make sweeping claims
and obviously don't speak enough hebrew to verify them
you make these statements
and provide no sources
until you do, i smell BS
you got called out.. release and house arrest are two very different things, no?
"Except all the acid they poured at Israeli soldiers"
source that shows any of the pardoned were acid throwers
please?
i was reading in hebrew, the ones pardoned were pardoned for minor offences.
they weren't all pardoned.
so. source?
most of the rioters in the gaza pull out where under 18 at the time of the pull out, and were arrested for crimes of minor civil disobedience - i.e. causing a headache. they were all removed in the end without too much trouble. no rocks, no assaults, no bombs, nothing but a bunch of chanting kids sitting on the ground and screaming a bunch.
as far as the mosque arson, they are being released to house arrest while the investigation is pending because their remand was already extended 3 times!
to act as if nothing is being done to them is dishonest.
"Sukkot and Gelberd were released without charges, but ordered to remain under house arrest for 60 days pending results of the investigation against them.
The court had extended their remand three times prior to their release on Sunday"
they aren't free to go where they want... even if that's what you wanna believe... dishonest!
You didn't answer my question.
prior to the issues with turkey there were 2 players that were positioned to mediate
turkey due to their relations with syria and israel
and france because france has been involved between israel lebanon and syria since it's colonial days.
now that erdogan went off about allahs punishment while ignoring the issues of hamas and hizbalah, he has lost his position
france is the one that remains.
what does netanyahu saying "we choose our government" have to do with anything? or the french foreign minster being barred access to hamas run gaza from israel?
and the last comment. what is the connection to my question? israels primary concern is for it's citizens, their ability to continue living their lives int he region. hence the presence of a military to respond to things like cross border attacks.
not one bomb on syria. because there is no militia force on syrias border.
the fact that you feel comfortable posting stories from presstv speaks volumes itself. that press agency is run by the iranian government..
Bravo
turkey is a large trading partner but it is changing. as the nature of turkeys government shits, towards a government that stands in lebanon, moving closer to iran and doesn't acknowledge the iranian backed militia presence in south lebanon.
israel will shit itself towards trading partners like india, and thailand, especially states that also have issues with muslim fanatic religious militias. india and israel have quiet strong ties, i expect them to continue. when indians see the pictures of israels bombed busses many of them feel a connection. many don't, but many do. especially the non-muslim sector
let turkey bomb the kurds with their own hardware.
the self-righteousness is too much
yonira
i admire your ability to deal with this
"Then, in a proverbial slap to the face move, Israel went and violated that trust and relationship"
how? by invading lebanon after hizballah captured israeli soldiers?
"As opposed to the Zionist militia controlling Israel and its entire nuclear arsenal and bending over backward to appease the bible thumping colonists…errr terrorists, right?"
hizballah is an islamist militia,not a state
if they wanna declare a state let them
i don't think the christians in lebanon will be impressed
they tried to disarm hizbalah
and got an invasion in downtown beirut and dozens killed for their trouble
you don't have a problem with hamas and hizballah i get it
israel is the problem in the middle east
hamas hizballah and the rest are nothing
never mind that their backers in syria haven't seen war on their soil for 30 years
syria seems to have figured something out.. how to maintain a quiet border
step 1) no militias
assad doesn't allow one.. just on lebanese territory.. wonder why
the "divine leader" is not a problem at all.
iran and syria do??
then they shouldn't pretend they are
erdogan is playing a double talk game
saying i am your friend, but not lifting a finger to instill trust within the israeli public.
one comment on the iranian militia would have been enough
but he didn't do that. it speaks volumes to where turkey stands today
being viewed as neutral isn't a right
it's a privilege
it's something turkey has to work for.
when you threaten allahs punishment, you think you'll hold that trust?
turkey isn't entitled to be trusted.
you people really still view turkey as a neutral moderator?
did they have a scolding word for hizballah when they went to lebanon?
no.. no mention of the islamist militia iran maintains on the border.
how does turkey deal with militias on it's borders? does anybody remember?
it's easy to make conclusions when you don't have to provide any supporting evidence.
"This shows Israel thinking it only needs the US. Nobody else matters. Everyone else is just to be played off against each other tactically"
Says who? Because israel doesn't want to engage in negotiations with erdogan as mediator? He lost his role as a neutral party when he went off about allah punishing israel, when he started turkeys move towards iran, when he went to lebanon and ignored the presence of an islamist militia controlling the south..
why? because turkey today is moving towards iran... they won't criticize irans proxies hizballah and hamas
is he entitled to be seen as a neutral party? and why does mentioning sarkozy show people are being played off each other? france is the only other nation with a precedent to moderate, since the french have had their hands in syria and lebanon since the beginning.
"Notice Turkey PM’s complaint about him being compared with Sarkozy. He sees the game Israel is playing and finds it humiliating"
He wants to talk humiliation. when turkey faced tens of thousands of dead from krudish rebels, while turkey used israeli and american technology to strike northern iraq did israel humiliate the turkish PM in public? tell the world turkey was a threat to world peace?
no.... he wants to have his cake and eat it too.
he is playing to a turkish swing east, towards syria and iran. Israel is a populist issue and here he is inflaming it;
like nasser and the old arab nationalist leaders before him
any one can speak against israel and they become a hero in the muslim world
no matter who they are.
it's an easy formula, it pays off in the middle east.