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The War of Ideas in the Middle East
Important comment, thanks...
That's not true. Ron Paul is in the same Zionst party that Obama is in - and Obama went completely opposite his campaign promises. Don't waste your vote on the Dem/Repub rubbish. There's only one outcome - more of the same...
Not if you believe 'plucky, little' Israel is surrounded by a 'sea of Muslim hate'; and that most of the world is antisemtic. Then you are a heroic do-gooder saving Jews from a sick and dangerous world...
"Can we trust Google and Facebook (and other major Internet and telecommunications companies) with our private data?"
Absolutely not. And you've made the point well...
"these are Legal Concepts and can’t be entered into without evidence, on some subjective whim, by any other group. Maintaining personal freedom also implies taking personal responsibility for our views and our actions. Nothing wrong with that equation because it applies to all."
Of course they can, and often that's what happens - ala' Foxman. Your final comment isnt' true either - it doesn't apply to all - it applies to those with the fiancial means to force others to accept responsibility for actions that those with financial backing will deem irresponsible and/or illegal. It's simply false that personal freedom - and the 'responsiblity' that goes with it - applies to all. It clearly doesn't.
Can you say "Roman Polanski"....
Not at all. It's just that the standards for this 'investigation' into Islam are piss-poor. It's not anything to do with learning the truth - it's about bashing -time and time again. I think it's very impotant to critically investigate religious extremists - only I believe the standards for this need to be extremely high. The Islam-bashers ironically mostly come from a religious extremist background themselves - and it shows in their horrific 'scholarship'...
I'm surprised you're surprised Annie - there's been an ongoing assault on Islam for some time in America. Well before 9/11, in fact. It's also reached down into the law-enforcement level - here in Toronto there's been active association between Israel(can't remember who exactly) and the Toronto Police - regarding 'security', as I recall...
That's exactly what it was...
So Israel's still going with their "we're a secular state" meme?
It's amazing they'd think that anybody would believe that...
Then you must have a busy imagination, because I can't imagine they'd say much about it...
"“Look, our side isn’t always right,” I said. “We can be imbalanced. Some folks think that Israel is going to be dismantled tomorrow. It’s not going away. Look at this place. It’s here to stay. I’m in Palestinian solidarity, because they’re the victims, but in a criminal case, the victimized family always wants the death penalty, and society doesn’t have to grant the death penalty. It doesn’t have to be inside that family. It has to balance other interests.”
There's alot of truth in that - but when we're talking about Israel, the Palestinians aren't the only victims. That's why I don't think Israel is going to be here forever.
Other than that, well written thought provoking read, Mr.Weiss...
I didn't say that. But it is interesting that you think that's what I mean..
Agreed. That he can't answer that is pathetic...
I was born of English parentage in Canada - a nation formed by the British empire and France. I am of the white, Christian British tribe - and I am very proud to be so. And in Canada, America, Britain, Australia, New Zealand we are the majority and we are the founders(mostly) of those nations - an undeniable fact. And these nations were prosperous and civilized and were moving towards greater equality amongst it's citizens and in it's laws and in the global community.
"Globalization" has changed all of that...
I understand where you coming from when you say "I hate being defeatist" - but I dont' think you need to be, really.
I think if 90% of U.S Jews were in his corner and stopped supporting Israel's behavior I think DC would have no choice but pay more attention - I really do.
But I don't think we're anywhere near getting 90 pecent of Jews in Beinhart's corner....but it's not impossible - I hope. And I hope the way we get there is through rational consideration and compromise...
Can U say "Poser"?
Hagee is not a Christian. Period.
There's nothing inherent to Christianity about 'supporting' Israel - for proper Chrstians the opposite is true(as long as Israel continues in it's current state) -as it should be all Christians. There is no argument that is Christian-based for allowing an illegal occupation(with all of the crimes that insues) of another people and their land - their land. Some tried a few centuries ago - and now we look upon them as extreme assholes. So why should we look differently upon Israel and it's ongoing crimes?
Well written, Mr.Weiss...
Irrelevant...
There is proven intent.
That's not the point, Winnaca, that I was making.
No, Oleg. Betzelem is not arguing that 'no matter what happened somebody should be punished'. Can you provide the relevant quotes that indicate that to be 'Betzelem's' position? Thanks....
Ah yes.. those precious bytes...so scarce and valuable...no sir, don't waste the bytes my friend. And don't get me started on 'time'..
"The basic argument that you guys use is 21 people were killed–> someone should be punished."
Unless any of those 21 people were members of your family, or maybe your personal friends - maybe your wife or sister, Oleg. Or maybe your child.
In that case nobody should be punished. Agreed?
IN terms of where it's leading us now , Mosser - jeez.....
"I wonder why?" Oh I don't know - maybe something about Israel being so vitally important to the "Jewish people"(to the extent where dogma allows for the rationalization of the crimes we see).
I wasn't aware you told me before Mosser - but I'll mark your words just the same. Have I defaced them before? You've lost me on that one.
Btw - why do you think all I see is religious extremism? Taking into consideration the statement was intentionally hyperbolized("all I see is religious extremism")to make the point - and not meant to be taken literally(it's not all I see; hopefully that's obvious).
All that emotion and passion for Israel and nothing(I'm not refering to you Mr.Weiss)regarding the suffering of the Palestinians.
All I see is religious extremism - despite the quite civilized manner of all who adorned this gathering. Not good. I don't see compromise, I don't see any notion of sacrifice for peace or the potential for understanding the how serious 'Israel' is for the future of all humanity(and our shared home, Earth). How can antisemitism be so much of an issue for these people while they completely ignore why it exists? It's as if they simply cannot understand why others wouldn't like them - regardless of what they do. A sense of entitlement based on a percieved(read 'indoctrination') shared victimhood. A very disheartening read, as well written as it is...
Except, Freddy, that one involved signing a letter condemning the acceptance of Israelis who support war crimes and crimes against humanity(ongoing)to perfrom in the London Philharmonic. The other involved the suspension of people opposed to war crimes and crimes against humanity - for six months and without pay.
But you're right. If you aren't prepared to accept the concequences than don't play. But I think your point is moot. Decent people are more than willing to accept the concequences of speaking out - and acting out - against war crimes and crimes against humanity. Because it show others just how morally depraved those who support war crimes and crimes against humanity, truly are. That's the whole point, I figure...
I have say I don't think this is the first time Israel's treatment of Christians has been brought up - maybe about Palestinian Christians - maybe. I recall a 60 minutes segment dealing with American Christians in Jerusalem having their digs burnt down(and then building them up again)a few times over; as well as showing orthodox rabbis insulting, spitting at etc at Christian tourists and Christian authority figures.
Me too, eGuard. Bernard Lewis was the neo-con darling - hell the American media's darling - for a while after 9/11. I can remember getting literally dozen's of comments recommending I read the 'great' Bernard Lewis if I wanted to 'understand the Middle East'..lol...
Yes, and in a lawful, civilized nation, they wouldn't be asked to come and share their experiences at an institution of higher learning. They'd be arrested and put on trial...
I'm pretty sure you were being ironic when you referred to Mondoweiss as (a)"radical base". But for me, there's nothing radical about Mondoweiss. This is where most Americans stand; I would be quite willing to bet...
Fair enough, but IMO, some of your claims are absolutely ridiculous. Are you not familiar with Bolchevism?
I don't think the choice is 'staying in the Jewish collective' or complete rejection of it based on the immorality of Israel. The choice is what type of Jewish collective is it going to be? Zionist or Torah Judaism? But then, I'm not Jewish - but that's how it looks to me...
I take personal offense to the suggestion that 'most people' did nothing while Jews were persecuted by Germany - maybe you'd like to remember the 50 000 000 who died liberating those Jews from permanent extinction. Try it some time - it's good for the soul...
"The US and Israel have a common interest in suppressing Arab nationalism. "
That's where most of the controversey comes from: not everybody agrees with this point - or how that dynamic plays out. I like Finkelstein alot - as I did Chomsky at one point. I just don't think it explains anywhere near adequately the complex reasons for American foreign policy decisions. Or the complex political relationships that constitute government institutions. And the sometimes subtle ways in which these political relationships change over time and beyond the quise of corporate media commentary.
Nobody says there's anything 'benign' about American foreign policy - but's its not enough to simply say that because two policies resemble each other that both come from the same source. In reality they don't. American foreign policy is determined by the players in the government. In recent times this means corporate players have been determining the foreign policy direction of the U.S - not some dated, theoretical musings.
Most of the policies you mention are Cold War policies. Which were certainly as immoral as the Zionist ones that now determine U.S foreign policy direction. But they are history.
I've read all of Finkelstein's books - what's the 'new one'? And what would your point be, exactly?
So why does Norman continue to follow the Chomskyian method of denying the power of the Israel Lobby and it's role in cementing the American discourse on Israel? Why does he continue to advocate for the 'two-state solution' as the only viable 'solution' to the conflict?
Norman must realize that the Lobby will continue regardless of the these figures concerning liberalism, orthodoxy, generationalism because JEWISH institutions continue, and have even increased, their connections to the 'Jewish' state - both openly(e.g. the CJC(Canadian Jewish Congress) has changed to CIJC(Canada Israel Jewish Center)and through both open and covert funding of Israeli institutions, mostly military and settlement building from what I can tell. By the time his generation gap has come to pass, Israel will have either killed or forcibly removed 6 million Palestinians from Palestine - and God only knows what will happen to countries like Syria - whose main sin seems to be wanting back the Golan Heights as per umpteen UNSC resolutions, or Iran who backs these liberation movements ideologically and militarily. I'm a very big fan of Norman Finkelstein, but I differ on this misplaced optimism and his mild advocation of Zionism based on 'realism'..
"Did I forget anything?"
Oh, probably. But you certainly made your point...
The occupation comes from 'Israel proper' and "USrael" - so, for me, it makes perfect sense for BDS to extend to Israel and American institutions and corporations that work to enforce the occupation..
btw very good post.
I'm wondering how much the Zionist attack on gay communities has had on Sullivan's intense focus on the settlments. Certainly settlements have ALWAYS been the main issue. But the gay community's adoption of the Israel apartheid theme has caused friction - particularly here in Toronto where funding has been cut and laws passed(or considered)banning the use of the word "apartheid"is assocation with Israel.
Whatever the reason - well done Andrew Sullivan...
that's not a 'preemptive attack or war'. Under international law Iran has the legal right to defend itself from an impending attack. And when a country mobilizes forces and continues to threaten specific attacks you DO have the LEGAL right to defend yourself. Premptive war is illegal. Iran would not be prempting war. It would be defending itself from imminent attack. You can argue whether this attack is immiment - imo the evidence is quite solid - including terrorist attacks within Iran supported by U.S/Israel etc etc.
I wonder what Turkey might do in the event of an Israeli attack on Iran?
Well, under international law, Iran now has the legal right to attack Israel and the U.S as a means of defending itself from impending attack. Maybe that's the idea? Probably not - at least you'd think, 'what's the point' - USreal cares not one iota for international law- inspite of the global economic system, which would seem to make international law quite important, very relevant. But then I suppose the media need to continue with the illusion for the benefit of Zionism's supporters - most of them probably unknowingly.
So what's different about the Palestinains? Are they really that different from everybody else? How would you know?
Of course to have a violent response you cant' be tied up or incapacitated. So there should be no freedom for the Palestinians as long as Jews are occupying their homes and land, is that what you're saying? OK. Interesting ideas. Get out much?
....Me too...
"..but i can’t get away from the neocon influence in everything post-9/11. and though right-wing geo-strategy plays a role (which i think is sloppy “intellectual” cover for policies many others want) and the MIC play a role, i can’t help but see zionist ideologues as a key, if not required driver. "
I agree, but I'd say it's "everything post 6-day war(1967)"(of which Finkelstein tends to agree, with qualifications).
There is more than enough material to dicipher the driving movitivation behind U.S foreign policy - with absolute certainty, imo - with the use of political sociological methodology. Mind you, the politics of the academic aparatus today certainly don't make that endevour a smooth ride, by any means...
"How about a Jew who converts to Islam?"
He wouldn't be a Jew anymore. If someone who is Jewish converts to Islam, than that person wouldn't be practising Judaism anymore. In practice, anyway.
Was that supposed to be a trick question? Pardon me if this is 'trolling'. I am interested in how others percieve this question, and am not trying to be cheeky.
"...weaken the egalitarian nature of the state such as affirmative action programs do in the United States."
I don't agree with that. Affirmative action programs have never weakened the 'egalitarian nature of the United States'(??), mostly because it never was an egalitarian system to begin with. Giving a historically - and systemically - oppressed racial group access to education - that they wouldn't have otherwise - is never a problem.
How do you think AA action programs have weakened the U.S? You don't say, as far as I can tell...
What do you mean when you ask Phil, "(are)you sure you want to go that way?"
HOW was the Purim story used as classic propaganda and blood libels?
My humble suggestiong to you Newsclench is to start thinking outside of the current political parable - Rep/Dem party. They are exactly the same people. The policies are almost exactly the same. Voting for the same parties gets the same results: war, resource theft; theft, theft and more theft. And more war.
That's the current reality.
Thanks to Zionist propaganda, too many Jews are brought up believing that ALL gentiles are responsible for the Holocaust - nevermind that 50 million or so died liberating the Jews of Europe from complete extermination. Zionism is a facist policy in everyway you can imagine....
Precisely....bravo.
I vote Ynet.
Thanks for that Tetra - that explains the claim of a professor here in Canada who claimed that Iran was enriching urnanium at 20%, all the while implying only a military component - at least in the show I was watching....
I look at both together- deaths from sanctions and death from invasion. The policies were from the same groups. They were likely planned for one to be followed by the other. I would put the most accurate assessments somewhere between 2.5 to 4.5 million dead Iraqis...
BTW we should really be talking about genocide when we're talking about U.S policies against Iraq. The outcome of those sanctions - at least .5 million dead Iraqis - was easily predicated from the outset. And as we all know, "the price....was worth it".
The same when we talk about Vietnam. There the numbers were similar - 2-4 million mostly civilians dead in Indochina. Genocide when you consider that that was always the likely outcome when you carpet bomb villages and cities and food, medical and shelter resources.
OK. J street is just another version of AIPAC. Which it more or less is. It serves to attempt to legitimize the efforts of the Jewish establishment to wage war against Iran, by offering a less facist face. But ultimately the goals are the same - the successful portrayal of Israel as a rational state actor that is merely trying to protect itself from a bloodthirty enemy. It really isnt' necessary to explain why this isnt' true - unless you really are that poorly informed...
Thanks Mooser, I think.
But seriously, I think it's clear I'm talking about Zionism and not Judaism. You may not agree with my analysis -fair enough, it's how it looks to me and I could be wrong. The role of Zionism in American FP is an area that requires alot more study and analysis, but clearly it's a legitmate subject of inquiry and not simply an antisemitic trope.
But the truth is I don't agree with the banning of Blankfort etc, but I do respect Mr.Weiss' very difficult job of running this very important site - one that needs to be accessible to the American Jewish community for purposes of education and information. Zionism is problem for everyone, but even more so for the greater Jewish community imo....
Bit unfair really, and totally irrelvant to what's going on today, imo.
The Catholic Church is actually one of very few major institutions that has any integrity left at this point in American history - even with the quite persistant negative media attacks that have been going on for decades. I've got alot of time for the Catholic Church and I think it's going to have an even bigger role in America in the future
Total nonsense...like the Iranians wouldn't say or, more importantly, do anything after an Israeli attack on their nuclear facilities. Or that other intelligence agencies and nations wouldn't pick up that kind of info. Ridiculous.
"The Israelis already destroyed all the Iranian nuclear infrastructure on the ground weeks ago..."
And nobody even noticed! Top dogs that Mossad..
You couldn't be more wrong if you tried. I see you've left it at that, instead of engaging with the 'others' to make your POV. Very telling.
Why not stick around and answer some of the questions from the people here, if you are so sure of your views?
Bigger than AIPAC? Sure. Bigger than Zionism in general - no. Zionism and the MIC do, however, fit hand in glove.
Zionism, Corporate/Financial, MIC - the trifecta of 'evil', if you will. But for me, the first one enables the others. Zionism's main, deviant characteristics have enabled the others to follow the same deviant immoral path. Accepting Zionism as being American as apple pie has had extreme influence on American foreign policy, and not only in the ME. Israel's sphere of influence and control also flows well outside of the ME.
It isn't only Jews who have been corrupted by the 'Chosen' dogma. Zionism and American imperialism are willing bedmates...
Occupy APAIC - awesome. Great to see people picketing in Washington against the Zionist Lobby - warms the heart, long may it grow.
Ha! No we don't believe Martians arrived one day and forced innocent, peace loving Arabs from their homes.
We know that European Jews arrived one day and forced innocent, peace loving Arabs from their homes. That, unfortunately for you, isnt' missing from the public debate because it happens to be a fact.
Which is exactly why it's missing from the public debate.
Personally I'd recommend being careful about the conclusions you reach about the Yom Kippur War based on Shamir's mysterious letter. Having read the counterpunch article I can't help but feel it doesn't add up. Finkelstein's analysis of the Yom Kippur War in "Image and Reality:" is what I'm thinking of , and in particular the reality that Sadat was always trying to negogiate with Israel about the return of the Sinai in exchange for a peace treaty, and was rebuked by Golda Meir et 'al. To explain this away as a cynical political ploy by Sadat doesn't sound right. Egypt was well within it's rights to militarily challange Israel for territory it stole in '67. What did Israel gain from this so-called conspiracy? At the time they were drunk on military success, hence the rebuff of Sadat, and there was no need for them to enter in a dangerous 'amour a trois' as you say.
''
Hamas is the democratically elected leaders of the Palestinians. They are also the leaders of the resistance against Israeli occupation, oppression and land and resource theft. I don't particularly like Fatah, but I do like anything that promotes Palestinian unity, which is an absolute neccesity..
I personally don't think that's at all legal. I hope that Americans start to realize that they have a serious criminal organization that is leading them to ruin. It's all or nothing. Prosecutions for these kind of things will be paramount after a people's revolution restores a true liberal democracy that seeks to cooperate in the international arena and problem solve, for example the environmental catastrophy that we face. You can't do that with religious criminal fanatics in control. They only have power if we continue to play the game. Stop playing and it's over for them.
I still can't believe that anybody would even vote in these sham elections...
That sounds like rubbish, I'm afraid. When you use meaningless terms like' leftist radicalism' it often runs that way.
BTW I had no idea that this type of cost analysis for genocide was in fashion anymore - silly me! So, when we crunch the numbers it becomes quite reasonable to plan for a 'holocaust' of right wing or left wing idiots in America. Don't you think? The ends would justify the means, no?
I totally agree with your premise, Phillip Weiss. Good article and great points...
I watched an interview on a very Zio-centic CBC(Canada) with a fellow from a Zionist think tank and an Iranian Professor from Queen's University.
Both were for an attack on Iranian nuclear facilities, but the Iranian Professor claimed that since the last NSA assessment of Iranian nukes in 2003, Iranian enrichment of uranium has increased from 5 to 20 percent(in terms of quality - sorry I'm not much in science) which I thought was quite interesting if it is indeed true.
Far too late. JFK tried to curtail Israel's nukes, but was of course murdered shortly thereafter. From then on, it was never again an issue for the U.S government.
Exactly. People should keep talking about that very real possibility. Including assasination of American officials. These are very dangerous people. I hope most Mondoweisser's in America are realizing the danger of voting for the war parties. That means Ron Paul too.
So only antisemites can be critical of the Talmud? The Talmud, in my understanding is a book of Jewish laws, that govern Jewish behavior.
I also don't quite understand what you mean by 'cherry-picking' to describe what 'antisemites' have to say about the Talmud. Maybe you could explain a bit more clearly, thanks..
There won't.
"Giving him the bully pulpit to talk about his views on “constitutionalism… liberty and limited governance” as he would define them, is enough reason to oppose him, in my opinion."
Well there's a quite un-American(if I may be so bold) opinion if I ever did hear one, with freedom of speech hacked down in one fell swoop...
"Afghanistan after 9/11. Not quite as unanimous as in the case of WWII, an overwhelming majority of Americans (including me) thought that 9/11 made it was necessary to go after both the Taliban and, in particular, Osama bin Laden",
I don't believe that an overwhelming majority supported the attack on Afghanistan.
I believe a majority would have liked to see a proper trial and conviction of the perpetrators of 9/11 - whoever they are, and with proper evidence and in a criminal court. Call me crazy, but that's what I believe.
That's a little testy there, Mooser - I think he's speaking colloquailly,and not literally, when he mentions "Jewish DNA" as it pertains to his point.
What happened to you Mooser? Your witty and relevant quips have been replaced, it seems, with a increasing penchant for accusations of antisemitism regardless of context; again, so it seems to me. I don't read all of your posts, but I used to agree with you most regularly. Why the hate-on for Atzmon, for instance? Tribal criticisms have become nefarious antisemitic diatribes?
And in Canada our gov't has called Iran's missile tests a direct provacation - nevermind the "secret" military agreement(I s**t you not)that Canada has signed with Israel(an "exchange of students" was Ehud Barak's explanation), in light of Israel's ongoing war crimes in Gaza and the W.Bank. Zionism has attained full spectrum dominance in the western body politic, the facts speak for themselves..
I don't know how long this can go on before the levee breaks, and Zionist Jews become global enemy number one. How much lies and deep corruption of the democratic process can the western world absorb before there's a backlash?
And what world is that - the one of basic reading comprehension? You might want to join that world, hophmi..
I'm wondering what you are refering too when you describe Paul as "a right-wing extremists" - and/or compared to whom?
My opinion is you don't understand the problems that America is facing.
Because, like many 'diaspora' Jews, Ben-Ami feels his life's work is to insure the survival of Israel as a Jewish state. And for me that's acutally a damning indictment of Zionism, as well as being an excellent example of "the banality of evil". I can hear the howls even now as i write this, but, for me, 'evil' is also an outcome - not necessarily an action or individual. Like most diaspora supporters of Israel(and other fanatical actors throughout history), it doesn't compute that their actions are depriving others of their liberty - or their life. That's what scares me.
"This maximalist view, which would be alien to Zionism’s founders,.."
I must confess I've never really believed that, and frankly, still don't...
It's not very often - well maybe it is - that I've seen so much rubbish packed into one paragraph. Well done, Podhoretz..
Hitchens was an alcoholic. And he needed the money. Case closed....
IMHO if Americans want change they need to vote outside the Rep/Democratic tyranny. IF that were to ever happen - it wouldn't take long to find out who the enemies of the U.S really are...
I think she's as wrong as hell - but she probably knows it, and probably knows that they would never let him be the Republican candidate, too...
I generally agree with what you wrote. But I don't think Ron Paul would get the nomination - even if he won the vote...
"I have learned that the action on the Sumarin home is not an isolated case."
It's great that Seth has taken this principled stand, but this has been going on for years and it hardly a secret. But then, I am aware that hasbara is probably more effective on members of the 'tribe' than on others, so perhaps I shouldn't be quite so cynical. But it's hard not to be when it comes to the JNF...
"For the last two years, The Simon Wiesenthal Center, a leading Jewish human rights NGO,..". Ummm, No.
A leading Zionist lobby group? Yes.
No, they're not the same.
One is acutally true, and mostly provable. The other examples you give are usually not - i.eMuslim organzations aren't usually 'smearing' anybody with these accusations, as Islamophobia is a serious problem in our popular media, I think it can be said.
Nor is concern over Jewish political control necessarily an antisemtic trope. Not if this concern is based in fact, and/or the solution is based in politics and justice and the rule of law.
I'm confused by your last claim - that "Most Jews support the Jewish right to self-determination' - What is this Jewish 'right to self-determination' refering to? Everybody, in principle, has the right to self-determination in a functioning democracy - you surely aren't talking about Israel(I hope)....
Excellent advice.
Good ol' Stephen Harper - vetted, funded and generally loved by Canada's Israel Lobby. B'nai Brith Canada spokesman was gushing on the CBC on how they had put so much time an money and effort into getting Harper into Ottawa with a majority - and how now they expected him to toe the line for Israel in Canada.
So far they can be VERY happy. Canada and Israel just signed a military cooperation agreement(again, I'm pretty sure, without a vote in the House of Commons). Oh, such good times for Canadian Zionism.
Who could see it ever ending?
He's talking about Zionism, obviously. And the immediate problem with that is convincing literally hundreds of Jewish Org's that have support for Israel(right or wrong)as their fundamental agenda, to abandon that. Hence of course the ongoing push, particularly in Canada, to make anti-Zionism a crime.
But this is too far out there for nothing to happen, as had been happening. It's clear support for Israel is at the top of agenda for the major western powers - and clear that for most of the population it simply is not. And it's becoming easier to link this support for Israel(the 'Jewish state') - and thus,war - to waning economic conditions.
Not good.
I tend to agree, I'd just add Canada in that combination of neo-conservative gov'ts who are pushing hard for war with Iran.
Old Henry is a sly flox - he's good at telling people what they want to hear when they want to hear it...
...and long may that continue..
I'm curious as to Alex Kane's take on this article. And/or Joshua Holland's...
what an excellent, very emotionally descriptive piece.
One of your best, Mr.Wiess, imo...
Well than - you sure convinced me , let me tell you...
Joshua Hollands smear piece on Wolf is WAY over the top. Reads like a left-wing hissy fit over oranges and tangerines. Get over it. There are VERY dark clouds hovering over America- that anyone would try to 'debunk' an article based on tone over some minor errors is, in my view, pathetic...
I completely disagree - and calling her a 'hack' based on your unconvincing explanation, is a bit suspect - it's hard not to say..
'those kids aren’t getting beaten up because they might possibly challenge the inequities and corruption of the ruling class, they are getting beaten up because they refuse to cooperate with the ruling classes’ system. State violence is meant to intimidate and to channel the energy of the protestors into “acceptable” forms, like electoral politics. They’re getting beaten up for the exact opposite reasons Wolf cites. She’s a hack.'
The fact is that state violence is used for a number of reasons - and one of them will certainly be -if it isn'at already - a refusal to 'cooperate with the ruling class' system'.
Why the hate on for Wolf and the glowing tribute for Klein - who is far from perfect too. Weird. Have you read or listened to any of Wolf's other works, particularly on American facism?
Is that what you mean by 'hack'?
I read that yesterday - -great article , very important. I'm glad somebody posted it here. Cheers..
I'd say it's blantantly bigoted -not blantantly racist.
Jews are not a race.
And vice versa regarding Zionism and the U.S, Canada, Britain etc and it's people - according to you're claim that is...
After reading his response in the context of his first message and then the personal attacks on him by fellow Zionists after his criticism of Israel for it's massacre in Gaza, he doesn't deserve much respect for his pathetic attempt at PR damage control for a fascist regime.
You do know that Israel is a facist entity?
Respect isn't automatic, Witty. IMO you only deserve the bare minimum based on what can only be seen as serial lying...
Yes Annie is right. Although I'd just add that all that money over the years has been used to prop up a criminal state for 40 odd years - supporting an illegal military occupation of what should be a sovereign Palestinian state. A criminal occupation that the U.S has acknowleged in 'supporting' a Palestinian state on pre-1967 borders.
ALL funding to Israel needs to be halted until it fulfils it's obligations under international law. Which, in a properly functioning U.S legal system, would probably require suspending all foreign aid to Israel and the prosecution of various Israeli war criminals who carried out these crimes with American financial support..
All the hasbara crew need to read this piece. What wonderful observations from Ms Rosengarten...
How do you feel about the fact that most of the world has zero sympathy for Israel. Zero!!
I already know how you feel. Nothing.
Which is why most of the hates Israel.
I feel the same way about Israel as I do Nazi Germany. Germany was a threat to the world, Israel is a far bigger threat to the world than Germany ever was.
Funny, I feel the same way about Israeli military prowess - great when attacking unarmed opponents, useless against a motivated, united Arab army.
Israel is finished. 20 years - tops.
Well put Annie
Oh, it matters, hophmi. Just not in the way you think it does.
I think we're on the brink of WW3 - like, very soon....
Only if Americans let it happen.
That's the obvious point that isnt' being said even close to enough...
"Yet when the Times/WashPo, etc. wrote editorials and op-eds advocating the Iraq war where we killed hundreds of thousands of Iraqis and lost over 4,000 Americans based on lies, no one lost their jobs."
Or when Norman Podhoretz wrote an major op-ed in the NYT's that called for the dropping of a nuclear bomb on Tehran, openly calling for the murder of millions of Iranians, in order to 'save' Israel....
The Palestinians do have the right to defend their people from military attack by using whatever means they have at their disposal. They have the right to defend their land from being stolen from them by whatever means are at their disposal. That's undeniable. Those rights are enshrined in the UN Charter. ( Funny that you talk about the Hamas charter all the time, Richard, and yet are silent when it comes to Hamas' right to resist and respond as per basic human rights outlined in the UN Charter.)
Perhaps using the word "terrorism" was inappropriate. But then again, he's writing for the JP which is a right-wing propaganda rag, so really he shouldn't be surprised that they'd fire him for suggesting the Palestinains have any rights whatsoever when it comes to their occupation and oppression.
Israel's foreign policy is cynical and it is bad. Whatever is your point, eee? Everybody does it? Well, they don't.
Not on the level of the apartheid regime occupying Palestine...
Which mirrors the U.S stance of supporting Israel with bombs money and rhetoric while claiming to support Palestinian 'self-determination', in their own land, I should add. That's the dog-and-pony show; the same crap we see with Turkey and the Kurds. And now, with Israel needing some ideological soul-mates, suddenly Zionist extremists notice Kurdish deaths. Not that they were saying anything before.
Nothing new there.
Why don't you offer some answers? I'd love to know why you think that is. Me? I don't need to ask myself these questions.
Ahh...I had a good chuckle when I saw the lone Israel supporter, among 12 commentators was 'Hophmi' . Not a bad sign, either.
,
Well, I hope.
Now why doesn't that surprise me at all...
I was informed in a casual conversation with an Israeli-Canadian here in Toronto, that 'the problem' was that the Palestinians are "over-breeding" ...
it's more than pathetic - it's going to lead to civil war.
Why waste your time? This is not a equal opportunity conflict. This is about oppressor and oppressed.
There is only condemnation of the occupiers of Palestine, America, Canada, Britain, France, etc.
The war is coming.
"Nope, and I think the Palestinians looks like idiots every time they praise unprovoked violence or blabber on about martyrs / marytrdom."
YOU may think that. NOBODY else does.
Perhaps she is but her actions are still unethical...
The German Nazi's also worked VERY HARD to kick defenseless Jews out of their homes and steal their belongings. They also worked VERY hard to make those concentration camps that they put these pesky Jews in.
The ONLY just solution if for Israel to be disbanded - and returned to the Palestinians and the Jews who lived together before Zionism. Which, in terms of it's entity, Israel, has been with us for only 60 years - the German Nazis only lasted maybe 15 - so Israel has done well for itself.
Wake up before you lose everything...
Excellent post.
That's a serious point - if a little bit of a downer. But very true from where I sit...
My thoughts exactly. I thought I would lose it completely when most people accepted without question the Obama story about killing OBL. For me it was clearly BS. Show me some evidence or p*ss off...
thank you. I almost choked when I read ''lightbringer's' comment...
Ha!! That's funny.
You wish.
I think that all the time....
And that is supposed to mean what? We've already seen in the early part of that investigation how the UN has been used by Israel and the U.S to push for a politically expediate condemnation....
Yep. And BDS. And complete rejection from the internatinal community. And then war.
But that's OK with you Witty. Whatever it takes, eah?
Congress will accept whatever happens to the U.S as long as Israel is OK.
Think that's a stretch?
I don't.
Until Americans are as willing as Zionists are to engage the political process, the Zionists will continue to set the agenda for the U.S government...