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Total number of comments: 485 (since 2010-05-07 21:27:34)

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  • Israeli president's diagnosis -- 'Israel is a sick society' -- doesn't go viral in the U.S.
    • From wikipedia:

      Ad hominem reasoning is not always fallacious, for example, when it relates to the credibility of statements of fact ...

      link to en.wikipedia.org

    • hophmi: "a society that elected to lead it a terrorist organization"

      You mean like Kenya, Malaysia, South Africa, Zimbabwe, Algeria, East Timor, many other post-colonial states, and post-Mandate Israel.

  • The ice floe
    • Weren't you criticizing ad hominem attacks on another thread, hophmi? Oh I forgot, you're a Zionist! It's only ad hominem attacks on Zionists that count.

  • 'Settlement endorsement should be put on a par with racism, sexism, homophobia and anti-Semitism' --British pol
    • Palikari: How do you define left and right wing?

      Do you equate right wing with support for the Zionist State?

      Explain how if Conservative Party is anti-Israel, 80% of Conservative MPs are members of Conservative Friends of Israel?

  • Europe wearies of Netanyahu's diversions
    • The most surprising newspaper in ivri's list is the Times of London. It is owned by Murdoch!

      If you are not happy with the London Times' reporting of Israel I suggest you stick to the Yisrael Hayom.

    • According to Wikipedia 80% of Conservative MPs belong to Conservative Friends of Israel.

      Now show me the same figures for Conservative Friends of Palestine, ivri. Don't bother:

      link to telegraph.co.uk

      Prepare to be (pleasantly) shocked, ivri:

      link to theguardian.com

      And go and read Howard Jacobson in the Independent if you want a (pleasant) heart attack!

    • I'm sure you've been told many times before ivri - it's amazing how all the hasbarists have problems with retention - of the Guardian's role in promoting the formation of the Zionist State.

      link to ucd.ie

      Just read the introduction.

  • British Parliament sends a message to Obama: the people see Israel as a 'bully'
    • Nor me RoHa, but I did hear Andrew Nikolic MP on Radio National with a fawning interviewer telling us how we in the West need to "deal with" Iran. His 10 minutes of unchallenged fabrication could have been written by one of Netanyahu's scriptwriters.

      A couple of hours later an interviewer on RN was aggressively attacking Bob Carr for leaving a concert in France early to go to an ANZAC memorial service.

      What is amazing about the UK vote is that, despite having a largely Zionist dominated press and TV (BBC, Guardian, Murdoch, in particular), the people have worked out what's really going on. Of course, Australia's media are even worse.

  • British Parliament votes overwhelmingly to recognize Palestinian state
    • Agreed - I dumped the Guardian over its reporting of Syria. I recall one of its typical reports on Syria, where a commenter said "I don't believe a f***ing word you're saying" and received more positive votes than all of the many other comments combined.

    • In searching for some information about Jack Straw, I came across this piece - I hope it was meant to be flippant.

      link to thejc.com

      Straw represents a constituency with a large Muslim population (around 25% according to Wikipedia). In his younger days, Straw was very radical and left wing - George Galloway would have been proud of him then. But then he turned into an establishment type with Blair.

  • Naive? At a Jewish spiritual retreat center, I insist on talking about Gaza
  • Israeli military demolishes West Bank dairy factory benefitting orphans despite court appeal
    • Do you mean Epimenides, Shmuel? I think Diogenes Laertius wrote about him. It was the Cretans who were the liars according to Epimenides - and he was a Cretan.

    • Talking of Tikkun Israel, see this from MERC:

      link to middleeastrealitycheck.blogspot.com.au

      Operation Protective Edge has had a significant financial effect on the Israeli economy. The direct cost of fighting with current reserve forces was USD$35 million per day. This does not include costs associated with damages, compensation for loss of work and revenue especially in the south, the expected drop of 0.5% in the gross domestic product, and the loss of the tourism dollar in the country as well.

      Experts are predicting a total cost of over USD$2.2 billion dollars as a result of the war.

      Funds that are normally channeled towards supporting social programs have been diverted to the defence budget, conscious of the fact that presently, Israel and its citizens need help from the rest of the world.

      I almost choked on my breakfast!

  • The Palestinian message to Israel: Deal with us justly. Or disappear
  • 'I mourn my Jewish community, which seeks to justify these inexcusable acts'
  • Checking under Israel's Iron Dome
    • I meant to say - but posted too soon - that it should mean "reaching a designated target" but since these missiles are more or less untargetted in the conventional sense, if the iron dome missiles change their direction of flight in a fairly random way I'm not sure how the iron dome system has succeeded. If the iron dome does not prevent the qassam missile from reaching the ground and exploding it has failed.

    • I would have thought "interception" meant prevention of the payload reaching

  • How to respond to thoughtful people who can't help saying 'but Hamas'
  • Tunnels-to-kindergartens propaganda Netanyahu peddled to NYT and CNN is exploded by Israeli news site
  • A month of solidarity in London -- does the BBC get the message?
    • But note the question - "responded to the firing of rockets by Hamas". The question was slanted to get the answer "no" - and of course distorted the true situation. It is surprising, therefore, that 52% voted "yes". Were the question to be "Do you support Israel's ongoing blockade of and military actions in Gaza?" I suspect a much bigger proportion would have voted against the Israeli position.

      The Guardian which commissioned this survey is very much a PEP newspaper.

  • 'NYT' gives Israelis the opportunity to shoot and explain (why not Hamas?)
    • The Australian Broadcasting Commission had a short report by someone - I think an aid worker but perhaps a journalist- in Gaza, this morning. Pretty horrific! I didn't have time to listen to much, but it seemed that the ABC has shifted in the last few days. The report was not immediately followed by some apologist for Israel whining about how it is all the fault of Hamas. Not previously known for impartiality on these matters, James Carleton, actually reported the death figures correctly, with correct breakdown of Israeli dead into civilians and militants (though of course he did not use that word).

  • 'Dear American Jewish community, It's time to talk about Zionism'
    • I thought that the way Phil posed the question was setting himself up for a Mooser response. I was going to say "typical Mooser response'" but then I realized that that would be setting myself up for a typical Mooser response.

      And I think Mooser the answered the question with a very good question:

      "So are you organizing to wipe Israel off the map, or save it from itself?"

  • 'Is the Zionist dream based on the repeated slaughter of civilians?'
    • What I cannot understand is that these "liberal Zionists" have been told time and time again by many Zionist leaders that their agenda is for a Jewish state between the Mediterranean and the Jordan river and (in some cases) much more beside:

      link to jta.org

      The past leaders of our movement left us a clear message to keep Eretz Israel from the sea to the Jordan River for generations to come.

      .
      and they failed to grasp it. Why has the penny suddenly dropped? Or are they realizing that the game is up?

  • Video: Mark Regev, deciphered
    • I could never understand why Israel continued to pay Regev after his Jon Snow interviews around the Cast Lead massacre. Jon Snow caught him lying then - and he came across generally as unconvincing.

      James Carleton - the Australian Broadcasting Commission broadcaster has been much more gentle on him. Carleton seems to believe his interview of Regev - see below for the link - was anti-Israel and cites it as such in a recent interaction on Middle East Reality Check! Such is the bias of the Australian media when it comes to Israel.

      If you look a couple of days back into link to middleeastrealitycheck.blogspot.com.au
      you'll find this from Carleton as an attempt to "prove" his lack of bias.

      As for the blog's administrator: "For Carleton, Israel's is always the default position".
      Listen to these: link to abc.net.au

      link to abc.net.au

      The second is Carleton's interviewing Regev.

  • Destruction of Gaza's children is something 'every one of us must confront' -- Jon Snow
  • (Updated) In Photos: Worldwide protest against Israeli attack on Gaza
    • This change in NSW demonstrates the growing voting power of Australia's Muslims and Christians from the Middle East. Muslims now outnumber Jews by a ratio of well over 3 to 1 and are concentrated in pockets where they can make a serious difference given Australia's electoral system. Of course that demographic glosses over the many Australian Jews who do not lend support to the Zionist cause, notably the now emigres Miriam Margolyes and Peter Singer.

      How much longer will the US have unswerving backing of Australia in the UN and other international organisations for its uncritical support of Israel?

    • I posted the link to Middle East Reality Check that reports this story on another thread, American - after you did I suspect.

      That post contains a few more details including the following from the Sydney Morning Herald editorial.

      The Sydney Morning Herald's editorial of 26/7/14 is also of interest here. The editorial declared Alhadeff's position to be "virtually untenable," and spoke of him "betraying the sensitivity of his role as CRC chairman." (Alhadeff & Baird should do right thing over Gaza row)

      The editorial continued: "Mr Baird should have demanded an unreserved apology and received one. He did neither. Instead, the Premier said the CRC chairman 'had his full confidence' after Mr Alhadeff apologised for any umbrage his comments might have caused. Notably, he did not resile from his views, nor accept blame for airing them in his important role. Mr Alhadeff's was a poor example of caveated contrition. The timing was particularly poor too. The apology came after Muslim groups threatened to boycott an iftar dinner at NSW Parliament House hosted by Mr Baird to mark the breaking of the fast in the holy Muslim month [sic] of Ramadan. Mr Alhadeff attended, along with many of the Premier's supporters, but those who refused to attend included the Lebanese Muslim Association, the National Imams Council, the Arab Council, Muslim Women's association, some Muslim councillors and the first Muslim MP in NSW, Shaoquett Moselmane."

  • Joan Rivers slams CNN and BBC coverage of Gaza -- 'you're all insane'
  • 'Telegenically Dead': Israel’s crumbling media war
    • The only US newspaper I have an ounce (and no more) of respect for is McClatchy.
      I've given up on NYT and WP.

      link to mcclatchydc.com

      Look at the headline! The article is trying hard to be pro-Israeli but having a hard time of it. The tide is indeed turning.

  • US is 'pushing privately' on settlements, as reporters point out nothing has ever come of that
    • Are you suggesting, hellsbells. that it will be any different under Labor?

      link to smh.com.au

      link to antonyloewenstein.com

      Quoting from the latter:
      "According to Sheridan, the plotters of the Labor Right in federal parliament, Mark Arbib, Bill Shorten, Joe Ludwig and David Feeney, all known supporters of Israel, were motivated, at least in part, by a concern that the lobby was sufficiently angry with Rudd to consider redirecting its money to the Liberals in the lead-up to the coming federal election."

      And have you read Bob Carr's autobiography?

      In any case, this current Australian government will still be in power at Christmas - I'm willing to put AUD100 on it. It may have to ditch its current leader though.

      Incidentally I voted against the current government - I'm just a realist.

  • Human rights groups accuse NBC of deceit about 'DIG' filming locations in occupied East Jerusalem
    • Agreed Shmuel re Gillard.

      link to middleeastrealitycheck.blogspot.com.au

      has a piece about Brandis and Gillard today. Here is one exchange that indicates the level of inanity they have sunk to:

      Rhiannon: So you don't use the term 'Occupied Palestinian Territories', even though it's a United Nations term used widely by a number of international agencies, European members etc...

      Brandis: Well, it's used by a lot of people. It's used by a lot of communists too. Weren't you a member of the Communist Party once?

    • As I've said on another thread, Australia is an extremely pro-Zionist country. Go and read

      link to middleeastrealitycheck.blogspot.com.au

      for an idea of what goes on here. The MSM here are even more one-eyed than in the US and the government-funded Australian Broadcasting Commission is laughable in its bias.

  • Israel announces major escalation in settlement expansion (Update)
    • Agreed Seafoid, but we have a Prime Minister who is at least a climate change skeptic if not a denier.

    • You have to be aware that under either Labor or Liberal administrations, Australia is one of the most pro-Zionist governments in the world. Gillard (former Prime Minister) received the Jerusalem Prize for her efforts on behalf of Israel. One of the first trade missions of the new Liberal regime was to Israel - led by the Assistant Minister of Defence. Another is planned in July. From the blurb
      on this website:

      link to aicc.org.au

      "The Trade Mission, specifically designed for senior leaders from business, government, policy and academia, will expose delegates to key Israeli influencers and enable a sharing of innovative business ideas and opportunities. In addition to the business program, the visit also includes geo-political briefings, cultural experiences, networking events and visits to some of Israel’s most iconic tourist destinations, including the Old City of Jerusalem, the Dead Sea and Masada. "

      Bob Carr (Minister for Foreign Affairs under Labor) has been pilloried in the Australian media for suggesting in his autobiography that the Zionist lobby in Australia had a significant influence on Australia's foreign policy.

  • Public debate on Zionism sets a crucial precedent
  • Aussie media focus on Carr's assertion that Israel lobby had 'direct line' into Prime Minister's office
    • This from the aftermath of the firing of Rudd and installation of Gillard:

      link to middleeastrealitycheck.blogspot.com.au

      Note the quote from that other Jerusalem Prize winner Greg Sheridan - Foreign Editor of the Australian. And this:

      'She wants to be Australia's first female prime minister and she knows that means currying favour with the Jews'." (Australia renews its love affair with Israel, Dan Goldberg, thejc.com, 10/12/09)

      Jews amount to 0.3% of the Australian population. Muslims on the other hand comprise 2.2% of the population and their number is increasing.

  • Australia opposed Palestinian UN bid because foreign policy was 'subcontracted to Jewish donors' -- report
    • Gillard was given her reward for supporting Israel:

      link to jewishnews.net.au

      According to ZCV president Sam Tatarka, Gillard “has demonstrated over her entire political career that she identifies and empathises with the Jewish people and our connection with the land of Israel”.

      “The Zionist Council of Victoria and the Zionist movement of Australia are honoured to be able to demonstrate our gratitude and respect for Ms Gillard’s many years as an unstinting supporter of the Jewish and Zionist cause,” he said.

  • Protest Sunday: The Israeli settler movement is not welcome in New York City!
  • The horror: 'Breaking the Silence' releases women's frightful testimonies of occupation
    • Why do they attack civilians? Here's your answer from Avraham Burg:

      "Israel, having ceased to care about the children of the Palestinians, should
      not be surprised when they come washed in hatred and blow themselves up in the centres of Israeli escapism. They consign themselves to Allah in our places of recreation, because their own lives are torture. They spill their own blood in our restaurants in order to ruin our appetites, because they have children and parents at home who are hungry and humiliated."

      But I know you'll be back asking the same question next week or the week after because you're not here to hear the truth.

      Where did the word Palestine originate? It comes from "Philistine" - the name that the ancient Greeks gave to the people of southern coast of Canaan. And what's your problem with that?

  • Kennedy's insistence on right of return prompted Ben-Gurion to rewrite history: They fled 'of their own free will'
    • Yes - if you want to know what's happening in Syria, forget the MSM. Try

      link to moonofalabama.org

      which has been proved right most of the time - unlike the BBC, the Guardian, and of course any of the US newspapers "of record".

    • Thanks pabelmont - not sure what went wrong with my link.

      Erasmus - read to the end:

      "It was only in mid-1963 that the Kennedy administration decided to apply real pressure. But this had to do with the more general policy the U.S. government was pursuing at the time. It was about to embark on delicate and far-reaching negotiations designed to keep both Germany and China non-nuclear, and the last thing Kennedy wanted was for Israel to do anything that might upset the applecart."

    • I'm sure you're aware of another way in which Kennedy pressured Israel in 1963:

      link to sscnet.ucla.edu

  • Glenn Greenwald brings facts and reason to 'Real Time', ruins Bill Maher's night
    • I'm always skeptical about wikipedia as a scholarly source but this page

      link to en.wikipedia.org

      suggests that there is a range of Islamic scholarly opinion about punishment for apostasy including (and I quote) " no punishment at all as long as they do not work against the Muslim society or nation".

      On the other hand the following is a quote from Deuteronomy:

      "If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, "Let us go and worship other gods" (gods that neither you nor your fathers have known, gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people. Stone him to death, because he tried to turn you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. Then all Israel will hear and be afraid, and no one among you will do such an evil thing again."

  • Stamberg bit her tongue
    • @RJL: Let them negotiate; how many offers by Israel have they refused, even refusing to suggest a counteroffer?

      Don't know that they've ever made a reasonable offer but you might enlighten us. And a reasonable offer would be a state of their own with control of their borders, their airspace, a fair share of the water, and based at the very least on 1967 (if not 1947) borders and Al Quds as its capital. That, given the history, would be a reasonable offer. And there has been a counter-offer on the table from the Arab League for many years.

      When are you hasbarists going to stop telling lies?

  • Video: Israeli settler lecturing Palestinian farmers -- 'You'll all be our slaves, if you're worthy, if you behave well'
    • giladg is not here to speak truth or to learn. giladg is a propagandist. giladg will be back again making exactly the same statements next time no matter how many times you correct them.

      Joseph Goebbels: “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”

  • Israeli strike on Syria followed violations of Lebanon's airspace and movement of missile defense system to north
  • Rights of return-- first class and no-class
    • And the rest of the world has the right to boycott it.

    • I don't see the analogy - well to be precise I see your comment as a good argument against the current Israeli policy of immigration. Germany has allowed the Jews who were forced out during the Nazi regime to return - and their descendants. Israel has not allowed the Palestinians who were driven out by the Nakba to return nor their descendants. So what was your point? And what is dubious about their claims? Please elucidate?

  • Israeli reporter admits suppressing images of 'piles of bodies of civilians' when Israel went 'crazy' in Gaza
    • History did not spoil us with power, wealth, nor with broad territories or an enormous community lot, however, it did grant us the uncommon intellectual and moral virtue, and thus it is both a privilege and an obligation to be a "Light Unto the Nations" — David Ben-Gurion.

  • The limits of liberal Zionism: 'NYT' columnist Roger Cohen misrepresents the Nakba and the right of return
  • Holiday greetings from the BDS movement
    • Just said hello to the wonderful people demonstrating for BDS in Rundle Mall in Adelaide, Australia. As they told me, they're in now in their 116th week of protests and have never rated a mention by the local (Murdoch owned) so-called newspaper, "The Advertiser". There was so much news in Adelaide today that the main headline in the Advertiser was the cricket!

  • Veolia withdraws bid for North London waste contract under boycott pressure
    • Thanks mikeo -

      I just loved this from your link to hackneycitizen.co.uk:

      From Councillor Linda Kelly:

      "David, Martin, Jonathan,

      Please refrain from putting any more responses on this site. You are only giving Dobbs, Miranda Molly, Benjamin and the rest a platform.

      Please any intelligent reader of this page will realise what is going on. They will always have to have the last word, so feel free to follow on after I post this."

  • In 'Dissent' debate, Walzer hints that leftists who focus on Israel are anti-Semitic
    • Many Australians would agree with you about "irregular maritime arrivals" (IMA). Please note the name - these are not "refugees". Since this is a concern of yours, I'm sure I'm preaching to the converted but for those less knowledgeable here is an Australian report on the situation from January 2011 which makes clear the difference.

      link to aph.gov.au

      This report sets out the issues clearly, as you will be aware GilGamesh, and is a necessary read for those concerned with the problem. It is not entirely a black and white issue and much of the current debate has been whipped up by the Murdoch Press and other right wing media to cause political embarrassment to the Labor Government, though the latter has not dealt with it well.

      There is one aspect that all sides of the political spectrum are united on; namely, that all should be done to prevent the large number of deaths at sea caused by these attempts to illegally enter Australia by boat.

      As to refugees, Australia continues to welcome them at a higher rate than almost any other country in the world - in 2008 only the US and Canada took more. Here is a recent announcement of a significant increase which, I suspect (though I admit to not having done my homework on this) moves Australia to number two behind the US.

      link to abc.net.au

      Australia takes these refugees, as is the case for all of its immigrants, without concern for the colour of their skin or their religion - many of these refugees will be from Afghanistan and Sri Lankans. But I guess you know all of this, Gilgamesh.

  • Citing growing division among Australian Jews over Israel, cartoonist refuses to apologize for likening Gaza to Nazis' victims
    • Level headed? Nick Dyrenruth?

      link to enpassant.com.au

      Fatheaded maybe! And certainly an uberzionist.

    • "Add to this the fact that Israel’s closest and most powerful ally, the US, is not exactly popular in the ME".

      You talk as if this happened totally by accident. Some nasty people suddenly decided on a whim that they didn't like the US?

      Might not it just be a tiny bit to do with the fact that the US consistently supports a racist regime that is continually stealing land from Palestinians, bombing its neighbors, and ignoring International Law? Might it not be to do with the fact that the US consistently vetoes any UN Security Council resolution that is even the slightest bit critical of Israel? You may not yet have worked this out, but popularity is usually a response to one's behavior.

    • The Australian Broadcasting Corporation (ABC) Radio National Breakfast program this morning had a big item about the mistreatment of Australian exported animals in Israeli abbatoirs. I wish they made a similar fuss about the mistreatment of Palestinians but they speak hardly a word about that.

  • 'We lost Europe,' says Israeli official
  • Palestinians under occupation should demand voting rights (Goldberg's latest variation)
    • @mondonut And here's the rational response to that. "To define an Israeli citizen - at least by birth - you need to define its borders. Please do so! "

      Abbas still in office? Ask Israel and the US.

  • If Hillel rejects nonviolent resistance to the occupation, what does it propose in its place?
    • I realise a little off-topic but this is great news to me as an Australian. And apologies if it has already been posted but haven't seen it.

      Australia will abstain on the Palestine statehood vote - it was going to vote "No"! Gillard has been rolled by the Labor caucus.

      link to smh.com.au

      No doubt the recent Israeli killing spree in Gaza had an effect.

  • How Israelis imagine their future
  • Regurgitating Israeli talking points, Amanpour lectures Meshal that 'int'l agreements' bar right of return
    • How many Jews emigrated to Palestine under the Ottomans? According to this:

      link to en.wikipedia.org

      there were 84,000 Jews and 660,000 non-Jews in 1922, a few years after the Ottoman empire collapsed.

      Sorry I don't possess a prayer book, but my God has given me a piece of velum on which it is written that I have rights in perpetuity to the entirety of New York City.

  • AP's Matt Lee confronts Nuland: 'You're staying silent while people are dying left and right'
  • On the Jewish Israeli street, there's no solution to Palestinian issue but more violence
    • Excuse us for getting angry with you but when you pen inanities like: "I do agree that more needs to be done" it makes me - and I suspect a few others around here - see red. Yes more does need to be done - that's a statement of that is obvious to anyone of the meanest intelligence and humanity! Israel needs a complete rethink. The Zionist agenda - acknowledged by many historical leaders including your hero Rabin (see above) - is to steal all of the land of the Palestinians. Israel needs to let that go. If it wants peace it should either evacuate all of the settlers instead of protecting them from Palestinian responses to their aggression, give back all of the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, and give the Palestinians the chance of a real state with an army, protected borders, and the right to decide who lives there, or it should give all Palestinians in all of the occupied territories equal rights. It's a choice it will have to make or be forced to make eventually. The only other alternative it really has is ethnic cleansing on a massive scale and since you appear not to be as extreme a Zionist as Gilad Sharon I'm sure you wouldn't want that.

    • Did you read what I posted above about Rabin - incidentally I forgot to attribute so it can go here
      link to alhewar.net?

    • Would that be this Rabin

      Rabin joined the Palmach, a unit of the Jewish underground army in Palestine and was deputy commander of the Palmach in 1947-1948 when the group engaged in ethnically cleansing Palestinians (as Benny Morris documented expulsion of Palestinians in the LOd and Ramle areas were carried out under Rabin’s command). Famous as Israeli defense minister in the late 1980s for ordering troops to “break the bones” of Palestinian demonstrators (mostly children). Rabin stated that “The Oslo “Peace Process” is “A new instrument for reaching traditional [Israeli] objectives” (according to Uri Savir, his chief negotiator, from link to fmep.org ). Henry Kissinger stated “I ask Rabin to make concessions, and he says he can’t because Israel is too weak. So I give him arms, and he says he doesn’t need to make concessions because Israel is strong” (quoted in Findley’s Deliberate Deceptions p.199). Yitzhak Rabin, once said (in the Knesset): “For all its faults, Labor has done more and remains capable of doing more in the future [in expanding Jewish settlements] than Likud with all of its doing. We have never talked about Jerusalem. We have just made a ‘fait accompli.’ It was we who built the suburbs in [the annexed part of] Jerusalem. The Americans didn’t say a word, because we built these suburbs cleverly.”

    • Just replace "Jews" by any other tribe - defined how you like - that has been oppressed - Bahais, Romanies, etc. Should each get there own state and get to choose where to put it - even if that land is occupied by someone else? Should they be allowed to have an immigration policy that is fundamentally tribalist? My own country had a "White Australia" policy for many years but eventually decided that it was racist and now takes people of any ethnicity or religion.

      "Palestinians wouldn’t want to get revenge on the 5 million Jews remaining in the state"

      So why might they want revenge from all you peace-loving and friendly Israelis who have been trying to offer them their own state for so many years?

      And do you think that some of the animosity towards Jews might just be because
      1. Israel calls itself the Jewish State and claims to represent all Jews world wide
      2. It behaves in a brutal and inhuman way towards the people it has displaced.
      3. While doing 2. continues to claim to be the victim.

      Don't you see cause and effect here? Or do you believe that the poor Zionists in Israel were just minding their own business, driving native people off their land, killing those that refused to budge, and the horrible people in the rest of the world took umbrage at this?

    • Israel has been offered 1967 borders and refuzed it - well ignored it. I'm amazed that they would be offered that much. Israel made the choice to continue stealing land - and it will serve it right when it forced to accept the one-state solution. The situation in the West Bank is not getting better - more and more land is being stolen. Will Israel give up East Jerusalem? Will Israel remove settlers?

      Gaza - worst possible timing - who chose that? Did you read the Magnes Zionist article I quoted or do you just skim read like you accuse others of doing?

    • What has this got to do with anything? Why don't you cry for the Palestinians?
      And why did you cry for Rabin - not for the untimely death of a fellow human being but apparently because it gives Israel a bad name. Let me tell you, what Israel is doing in Gaza is giving Israel a much worse name!

    • "It would save Israel money and help vent the frustrations of Gazans who can’t turn their hands to anything other than launching rockets to cope with having Jews next door to their Iranian garrison."

      They can turn their hands to many things - I'm constantly amazed by the resilience of the Palestinians in Gaza in the face of Israeli attempts to destroy them:

      link to electronicintifada.net

      But whenever they do Israel seeks to prevent it.

    • This isn't a struggle of equals. You seem to believe that it's ok not to acknowledge that Israel is the aggressor. Zionists came to this place and stole the land, drove the indigenous people out, and when they didn't go it killed them. And then had the temerity to blame them for it all. As Ben Gurion wrote "If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country". Israel created the problem and it has to fix it.

      It's not enough to say "both claim self-defense". Palestinians can do so with some justice, Israelis cannot. Israel never did anything about the blockade of Gaza between Cast Lead and the latest carnage, except to attack boats that tried to break it - and then they claimed some nonsense about international law to justify it. Since when did Israel abide by international law. As Magnes Zionist suggests, what's a few Palestinian lives when it allows Netanyahu to look tough?

      Let's see Israel honor its moral commitment to the people of Palestine - then I'll start to believe peace is possible.

    • The people on this site don't dehumanize Israelis - they do it to themselves!

      Gilad Sharon:

      "We need to flatten entire neighborhoods in Gaza. Flatten all of Gaza. The Americans didn’t stop with Hiroshima – the Japanese weren’t surrendering fast enough, so they hit Nagasaki, too. "

      @unverified__b69dj389:
      "it’s been a long time since the situation was better and people were able to meet Palestinians in day-to-day life"

      You erected the wall - what do you expect?

      And don't try the "self-defense" defense! It's garbage and everyone here knows it.

      link to jeremiahhaber.com

    • "presuming that every Israeli is a racist maniac"

      Well maybe not every Israeli but a very large majority of them:

      link to jewishjournal.com

      "I also believe that the civilians of Israel do have the right to live there in the future, as neighbours to a Palestinian state"

      So which "Palestinian State" are you talking about? The one on 1947 borders, or 1948 borders, or 1967 borders, or the bantustans they are currently occupying? Or perhaps on a state that better reflected the ratio of Palestinians to Zionists at the time Israel was created? Will this state be able to defend itself from Israeli aggression? Will it be able to control its own borders? And if not, in what sense is it a state? You're just using words - they don't mean anything!

      "you can’t call for the destruction of Israel and call it peace"

      You are participating in the destruction of a people and then calling for peace. Please!

  • 'Washington Post' prints false narrative of how Gaza escalation started
    • I have to say that the Australian Government Zionist Propaganda Organ called the ABC did surprisingly well this morning. Yesterday they had Mark Regev (ugh!) spouting his usual lies, and here is a transcript of Fran Kelly doing her fearless questioning of him - oh for a Jon Snow!

      link to middleeastrealitycheck.blogspot.com.au

      But this morning they had Mustafa Barghouti on to set the record straight. Fran Kelly tried to trap him into saying that he supported violence by Hamas but he kept repeating that he believed in non-violent responses and that Israel had to bear the responsibility.

  • Israel rejects truce and escalates fighting in Gaza with assassination of Hamas leader; 10 killed, 90 wounded in Israeli attacks
    • The word "vicious" coming from an apologist for Israel's current activities has a poignant irony. I must say I can't raise much empathy for poor Hophmi and Dimadok because someone "twisted their names" while Israel is raising mayhem in Gaza.

  • 7 Palestinians, including 3 children, killed and 52 injured as Israeli attack on Gaza continues
  • Comeuppance for Netanyahu? No, he might run against Obama-- and increase daylight between countries
    • Hi pabelmont

      I posted earlier but it disappeared - maybe the moderators didn't understand the allusion - either in your comment or my response.

      What I said was:

      "Spoken like a mathematician - and a Jewish one at that."

      If the moderators don't like this can they tell me why? Perhaps flippant comments are no longer allowed - beware mooser!

  • Wasserman Schultz brags on Obama's continuity with Bush policies in ME
    • The British stance is strange and contradictory. On the one hand we have the rejection described by mikerol, and on the other Britain has agreed to station Typhoons (the "eurofighter") in the Gulf to support US and French materiel and personnel already there:

      link to rt.com

      And on the third hand (who's counting), this deployment seems to be connected to sales of said fighters to Gulf States:

      link to bbc.co.uk

      But of course just to make things ok "he Cam" is going to raise human rights issues.
      Maybe its not so contradictory after all.

  • BDS is a necessary, ethical response to a brutal occupation worsened by 20 years of Oslo
    • Let's see. Iran has no nuclear weapons, allows inspections, is a signatory to NPT, and has declared that it has no intention of obtaining them. The West has imposed sanctions on Iran because apparently it doesn't believe Iran. Israel has nuclear weapons, has done so by stealing technology and spying, has not signed NPT, does not allow inspections of Dimona, and has to a large extent remained silence and lied about its possession of such weapons. And no sanctions on Israel proper. Now that's hypocrisy, jon.

  • Secret Israel NIE warns of irreversibility of Israeli colonization

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