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Total number of comments: 26 (since 2011-04-10 10:30:43)

Israeli, Liberal, Humanist

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  • Dream Defenders statement on the condemnation of Movement for Black Lives platform by some pro-Israel groups
    • Genocide?
      The Israeli 1967 census reported the population of the West Bank at 661,700 inhabitants. It is now at 1.715 million - i.e. almost tripled.

      Has language entirely lost its meaning?

  • Israel gets away with it because it is a global arms supplier -- Halper
    • You forgot one small thing - Saudi Arabia does not constantly call for the extermination of Israel like Iran does.

  • Chomsky supports portions of BDS agenda, but faults others, citing realism and int'l consensus
    • Bottom line: Beinart's Zionist BDS is progressing, anti-Israel BDS is failing.

      EU is sanctioning settlements , that church in the US is divesting from companies which profit from the occupation and at the same time supports Israel's right to exist and the 2SS. Signs of progressing Zionist BDS.

      Best indicator for failing anti-israel BDS - the list of performing international artists in Israel had never been larger than of this year: Rolling Stones, lady gaga, Neil young, beyonce are just few of the names.
      Other indicators: no Israeli companies within the green line have suffered from BDS till now, the Israeli economy is actually growing (although the majority of citizens' personal income remain the same but that's a worldwide capitalist malady)

      That is because the good people of the world know that the occupation of the West Bank is very immoral but at the same time the Palestinians' demands for the entire land of Israel/Palestine (by right of return and other means) are unreasonable and immoral because they will lead to a counteracting injustice to the Israeli people. No nation in the world would have sustained following a huge immigration/repatriation wave of a rival ethnicity.

  • The case for a BDS coalition
    • Good article.

      Sometimes it feels like BDS activists hate progressive Zionists more than they hate right wing zionists

  • 'For me, Palestine is paradise': An interview with Leila Khaled
    • @Inana, with all the respect to the Arab Jewish identity, it is nowadays in Israel almost non existent. The vast majority of mizrachi Jews identify as Israeli Jews and this what counts right now.
      BTW I don't have to imagin how they felt because I know firsthand from my tunisian born grandparents that they felt quite good fulfilling their Zionist dreams

    • Israelis are afraid to find themselves living in an Arab state which it's culture and language and religions are foreign and intimidating.
      It's very natural for a nation to want to preserve itself.

    • I wonder what would have happened if Israel had honestly and truthly negotiated peace with the Palestinians, recognizing the crimes of the Nakba, offering reparations but at the same time insisting that it cannot absorb more than a symbolic number of refugees into Israel proper. I wonder if the Palestinians would have accepted this path and ceased all practical plans to liberate the whole of Palestine.

  • Israel is now attempting to 'de-Arabize' Palestinian Christians, but in the 1950s it was Jews from the Middle East
    • I would like to second MahaneYehuda's words.
      My grandparents made Aliya from Tunisia. They had never seen themselves as arabs. They were zionist activists for several years before they came on a boat in 1948. I am not saying that Mizrahi jews were treated well by the Israeli authorities during the first decades of the state of Israel but as Mahane says: its a common phenomenon among societies absorbing immigrants waves. See how the jews and italians and irish were treated in the beginning of the 20th century in america.

      This attempt to divide between mizrhim nd ashkenazim reminds me of how the current govt in israel is trying to divide between christian arabs and muslim arabs.

  • What Comes Next: Towards a bi-national end-game in Palestine/Israel
    • Other than differences in language (Hebrew and Arabic) between Israel and Palestine, the only other distinctive differences between the two are the systems that privilege one religious/ethnic group over others

      There are other differences like Religion, historical myths, and the most important one is the subjective identity and sense of tribal belonging.
      In the end all peoples are invented and imagined but before we reach John Lennon's "Imagine" utopia, a system which guarantees a protection of collective rights is a must in order to mitigate tensions and injustices.
      I don't know what you mean by "multi-cultural democracy". In the end, we may mean the same thing. What I mean is that national holidays (derived from religion), languages, and some of the content included in the education system's curriculum - all these things and others should be protected in the constitution and not subjected to arbitrary parliament legislation.

  • McDonald's refuses to sell where Ben & Jerry's will -- occupied territory
    • I don't think this has to do with BDS.
      As mentioned in the article, Omri Padan the owner of Mcd Israel has always been a well known leftie since 1979 when he co-founded "Peace Now".

      Anyway, its a good decision.

  • Regurgitating Israeli talking points, Amanpour lectures Meshal that 'int'l agreements' bar right of return
    • Is there a difference between the moral right of Jews to return to Spain, and the right of Palestinians to return to (What is now) Israel?

      As I said, the only difference is the number of years which passed. As years go by, the number of living people who were directly affected by the Nakba diminishes and with it the moral validity of the claim to return.
      I empathize with their pain, their anger and their frustration.
      But instead of stubbornly demanding that ALL refugees and their descendants be entitled to return, the palestinians should insist that Israel recognize its moral debt to the refugees and discuss ways to compensate.
      Also, I think that BDS will gain more popular support worldwide if it stresses its demand from Israel to retreat from the OT and less demand on the ROR.

    • Well simple equity would require that Israel at least repatriate or resettle one Palestinian refugee in Israel for every settler it wants to remain beyond the Green Line in any final settlement, unless of course it doesn’t want to actually solve the conflict.

    • Then stop the Israeli Law of Return
      I agree. It should be replaced with a humanistic law which grants automatic citizenship only to persecuted jews.

      Pay reparations and get the hell out of the OT.
      I agree of course.

    • The owners of the country don’t need any “naturalization”. The “current residents” have no “naturalization”;
      We live in a world which is made of nation states. Unfortunately for you, Israel exists and so are its citizens. Deal with it.

      their presence is illegal, as they were smuggled in
      False generalizations. Some smuggled in but most of them legally immigrated to an area which was part of the ottoman empire.

      , with absolutely no connection to the country, against the refusal by the owners of the country."

      Wrong again. Most of them had generations lasting connection to the land. Check their prayer books.

    • The ROR is a moral right. However, an actual naturalization of millions of Palestinians in the state of Israel would be equally immoral and destructive towards the current residents of the land. It is ALMOST analogues to contemporary Spain having to absorb 45 million jews. "Almost" - not because of the numbers but because more years have passed since the jews were expelled from Spain than the years passed since palestinians were expelled from their land.
      A reasonable and moral compromise would be that the state of Israel settle a certain amount of Palestinians within its borders and compensate the other. That is, unless you care more about punishing israelis than actually solving this conflict in the maximum utilitarian way.

  • Why Obama shouldn't go to Israel
    • I'm surprised to go over the 193 comments to this post to find out that not one of them mentions the fact that the statistically the USA is a much more dangerous place for US presidents

      Also, the racism and hate towards Obama in the USA, among "Tea party" members and supporters seems to exceed the hate of Israelis.

      So yeah, there's a chance that a right wing fanatic israeli would assassinate Obama if he came to Israel, but I would say the odds are higher if lets say - he visits one of infamous redneck US states

  • A weekend of violence in Gaza
    • The Islamic Jihad has responded [positively] to the truce effort,

      Of course they did. They shoot at civilians and then shed crocodile tears when their militants gets killed.

    • I don’t get why they start firing rockets in the first place

      Why did OBL start a war with America?
      They are fanatic fundamentalists. That's why...

    • israel wants war
      Islamic Jihad wants peace? LOL.

      Islamic Jihad initiated this round of violence by shooting rockets at Civilians, last week. I have many friends in the southern parts of Israel who have to wake up their children in the middle of the night to siren alarms and walk them to security rooms.
      Anyone who considers himself/herself a humanist should equally denounce the warmongers in both sides of this conflict.

  • Kol Nidre in Cairo. Not
    • Tal, if the state of Israel is dismantled, what horrible things will happen to you?

      I'll tell you what will happen. We will become a minority inside an arab muslim country. We will become a Yugoslavia, a Lebanon.
      Those who have the means will emigrate and the weak ones will be damned. Will you then be satisfied?

      Who would be harmed, and who would benefit from the dismantling of the USA?

      You know damn well that a overwhelming majority of Americans will never dream of letting it happen. But you know what, A world without borders is a nice slogan. Start it at your own home. Suggest in your community to allow anyone in the world who wishes to immigrate to the USA to do so.
      Creating a worldwide community is indeed a noble cause but it should be achieved slowly like was done in Europe - by maintaining the sovereignty of the local communities

    • The Palestinians who were ethnically cleansed by your racist apartheid State did not ethnically cleanse anybody. They are no responsible for something that happened 1000s of years ago.

      Straw man.
      I did not justify the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians.
      I am saying that Jewish Nationalism has not done more crimes than other movements throughout history which were based on ethnics and/or religion. Back then it wasn't called nationalism, they had other names for it.
      You are barking on the wrong tree. I do not justify the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians or the keeping of WB Palestinians without civil rights.
      The problem is that your rage towards Israelis drives your hate and your wish to create injustices in order to amend another injustice.

      Why should non-Jewish nationalists sit back while they see something wrong happening?

      Rhetoric question.
      They shouldn't. BDS is a relatively moral choice to fight Israeli injustices.
      However, If BDS continues after Israel is no longer occupying Palestinians in the WB, then reasonable people will start equating it with the sanctions used against against jews back in

      a nut like you
      I would appreciate if you not use this despicable ad hominem attitude. It only weakens your case.

    • Israel’s turn will come. Sooner, hopefully, than later.

      Israel is my home.
      You, wishing for my home to dismantle, are cruel.

      I do not wish the USA to dismantle although It has perpetrated far worse sins than the state of Israel ever has.

    • "The notion that Anti-Zionist accept comparable acts of Arab racism is a straw man. "

      I never claimed that Anti-Zionists accept Arab Racism. It is YOU who is erecting a straw man.
      My claim is that Anti-zionists respect Arab Nationalism while rejecting Jewish Nationalism.

      "The Arabs were indigenous"
      Their ancestors were conquerors and ethnic cleansers as much as the zionists are. History does not stop whenever you say so.

      " and did not establish nations that excluded indigenous Jews."
      Jews were never truly seen as equals under arab rule which was based on Islam notions. As long as the jews accepted Islam state superiority they were tolerated.
      When Arabs established their nation states they kicked out the Jews.

      Bottom line - we deserve to have our nation state in which hebrew/jewish culture is dominant. We have no right to rule over Palestinians in the WB and we have no right to discriminate against non-jews in Israel but if these 2 issues are amended, than we are good as any other nation in this world.
      Therefore it is legitimate to criticize Israel. It is not legitimate to call for the dismantle of the state of Israel. Especially not 60 years after the holocaust.

    • The US is different. It's ethos is not related to ethnics although religion (Christianity of course) does play a major role. Luckily for the Jews, Judaism is perceived as part and parcel of the Judeo-Christian spirit of America. Muslims in America are less lucky in this way.
      In Arab countries Jews were perceived as "Dhimmi". They were protected but never equal.

    • I believe that Jews in Arab countries were treated better than Jews in Europe. Still, I think that they have always felt like guests and naturally dreamed of the day they will be able to establish a sovereign community in eretz israel. I don't understand the anti zionists who understand and sympathize with Arab pride and Arab nationalism but refuse to understand these same sentiments when expressed by Jews.
      Let me ask you this - if israel treated it's Arab citizens the same way that Egypt treats it's Coptic citizens, would you cease to be an anti Zionist?

  • An Open letter to President Obama from Israel

Showing comments 26 - 1