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The War of Ideas in the Middle East
"... or as a Jewish state which privileges its majority in certain limited ways but which can be legitimately characterized as a democracy in most essentials."
The usual double think.
They should make Gaza the most beautiful place just to p*** compulsory expellers off. Enviromental resistance against campaigns of destructions.
Fredblogs: "Frankly if an odd sentence in a cherry picked report, and some obfuscating change of subject is the closest the paid spokesman of UNRWA can come to proving that other refugee descendants are classified as refugees, that pretty much proves there is no such official policy."
Is that another example of hasbara autism? You were allready shown that UNHCR passes the refugees status to dependants according to the principle of family reunification.
"Both the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) and the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA) generally recognize descendants of refugees as refugees," State Department spokesman Patrick Ventrell told The Cable. "For purposes of their operations, the U.S. government supports this guiding principle. This approach is not unique to the Palestinian context.
Ventrell pointed out that the office of the U.N. High Commissioner for Refugees also recognizes descendants of refugees as refugees in several cases, including but not limited to the Burmese refugee population in Thailand, the Bhutanese refugee population in Nepal, the Afghan population in Pakistan, and the Somali population seeking refuge in neighboring countries. "
link to thecable.foreignpolicy.com
Kirk actually helps the refugees by bringing them back into the focus after Israel and the PA tried to take them out of the equation. Another stupid Zionist whose actions will backfire.
It's the settler's fire brigade "Fahrenheit 451".
Fredblogs says: "For thousands of years, and even since then for anyone who isn’t Jewish, land was taken by force. ... But as soon as Jews get some land, suddenly and retroactively its “international law says no”."
The law changed in 1945 because of the Nazi's criminal try to take land by force, you paranoid self-pitying ignoramus.
@ Hostage
"Q: It is often said that UNRWA perpetuates the Palestinian refugee problem by granting refugee status through the generations and that handing the refugees over to UNHCR would not allow this. Is this the case?
A: This is not the case. As I have already noted, Palestine refugees are entitled to a just and lasting solution to their plight. In the absence of -- and pending the realisation of -- such a solution, it stands to reason that their status as refugees will remain.
Questions raised about the passing of refugee status through generations stem from a lack of understanding of the international protection regime. These questions serve only to distract from the need to address the real reasons for the protracted Palestinian refugee situation, namely the absence of negotiated solution to the underlying political issues.
UNHCR's Handbook on Procedures and Criteria for determining Refugee Status provides in paragraph 184: "If the head of a family meets the criteria of the definition, [for refugee status] his dependants are normally granted refugee status according to the principle of family unity."
In effect, refugee families everywhere retain their status as refugees until they fall within the terms of a cessation clause or are able to avail themselves of one of three durable solutions already mentioned -- voluntary repatriation, local integration or resettlement in a third country.
Also, Chapter 5 of the UNHCR publication, Procedural Standards for Refugee Status Determination under UNHCR’s Mandate is very clear that in accordance with the refugee’s right to family unity, refugee status is transferred through the generations. According to Chapter 5.1.2 "the categories of persons who should be considered to be eligible for derivative status under the right to family unity include:" "all unmarried children of the Principal Applicant who are under 18 years."
Chapter 5.1.1 makes it clear that this status is retained after the age of 18. It states "individuals who obtain derivative refugee status enjoy the same rights and entitlements as other recognised refugees and should retain this status notwithstanding the subsequent dissolution of the family through separation, divorce, death, or the fact that the child reaches the age of majority."
link to prc.org.uk
Link to PDF document "Procedural Standards for Refugee Status Determination under UNHCR’s Mandate": link to unhcr.org
Fredblogs says: "So what, the cited handbook doesn’t say “lineal descendants” it says “dependents”, that’s minor children, possibly wives, not all your descendants of whatever age wherever they are. I doubt there are very many dependents of the original refugees. Basically, it would be limited to kids born in the last 18 years, to people at least 46 when the kids were born (for 1948 refugees that is). "
I've allready explained to you that if these kids become head of their own family then based on the principle of family reunification their dependants can be granted refugee status, too.
"Refugee status is because you got kicked out or fled, ..."
NO! The refugee status can be also granted to dependants of those who got kicked out or fled.
"... not because you live in a camp ..."
Why would a child live in a camp if it weren't a descendant (in other words a dependant) of a refugee?
"Otherwise the volunteers who live there would be refugees too."
We were talking about parent refugees and their kids, not about staff.
"Any country that wants to is free to offer Palestinians, or Muslims generally, automatic citizenship. Just as any country that wants to is free to offer automatic citizenship to Christians, or Buddhists, or Atheists."
But Israel is obliged under international law and human rights law (and even Resolution 181) to automatically transfer it's nationality to all citizens of Palestine habitually residing inside Israel's territory before 15 may 1948. The same automatic nationality transfer happenend in 1925 when all former Ottoman subjects in Palestine's territory became citizens of Palestine. The same also happened in Kosovo.
Fredblog, please allow your brain to process self-referential logic. According to the principle of FAMILY REUNIFICATION in UNHCR:
1.) If you're head of a family, than the refugee status can be granted to your dependants which can be your descendants, your spouse and even your aged parents.
Now:
2.) If you were granted refugee status as a dependant and you become head of your family then 1.)
Exploding Myths about Palestinian Refugees: UNRWA, UNHCR and the Palestine refugees
link to prc.org.uk
OlegR, being the Zionist hypocrit that you are, you don't have any problems that it's Israel which denies them their right to return to their home(land). And even in Israel Palestinians are not allowed to return to their home. Is it because people like you moved in after it has been confiscated by your "democracy"?
Hostage: "FYI, there have been second and third generation refugees in the other UNHCR programs and those operated under the terms of the 1951 Refugee Convention."
UNHCR Handbook:
"184. If the head of a family meets the criteria of the definition, his dependants are normally granted refugee status according to the principle of family unity."
link to hrea.org
@ OlegR and Fredblogs
Could it have something to do with the fact that the Jews are the only people which were granted a state because of a refugee problem, granted citizenship without naturalization and accepted to have a nationality law which doesn't include all residents before proclamation, but only the ones it didn't or couldn't expell?
These refugees are denationalized and expelled Israelis. But that doesn't count to Israel, because they're not Jews.
And comparing to other refugees regulations which don't count descendants as refugees: Family reunification would do the same. Well, not in Israel. Because Israel is so racist it doesn't even allow Palestinians to reunite their families.
Do both of yuo support this disgusting racism and Jewish supremacism?
playforpalestine: "The big difference is that nowhere else are there states so morally bankrupt as the Arab states who refuse to allow any Palestinian refugees to become citizens of any of their states ..."
Then imagine how morally bankrupt Israel is which made them refugees and denationalized them.
"Not only that but they created a separate UN organization dedicated JUST to the Palestinians."
UNRWA was created for Arab AND Jewish Palestinian refugees.
Fredblogs: "Actually, are there any other people in the world where the descendants of refugees are considered refugees? IOW, are they trying to make the definition for the Palestinians the same as for everyone else, or different from everyone else?"
You really have become an antizionist, don't you Fredblogs? Zionism considers Jews to be descendants of ancient refugees and therefore have the right to "return" to their "historic" homeland. Are they trying to make the definition for Jews the same as for everyone else, or different from everyone else, especially from Palestinians?
Fredblogs: "No, since Israel is a sovereign country it should apply to whoever they want it to apply to."
Universal moralist Fredblogs' lessons for today:
Nazi Germay murdered or expelled its Jewish citizens and didn't let them return. Because it was a a souvereign country it should have done whatever it wanted to do.
OlegR: "“Making the desert bloom” as Ben Gurion put it which was
fulfilled with a great success to a large extent."
Less myths, more facts:
Of the under 7% of Palestine private Jews and the JNF owned only 44% were used for agricultural purposes in 1945. The indigenous population planted 13 times more than Jewish colonialists. And most of their cultivated land was either confiscated or destroyed by Israel (as were more than 400 villages). So Israel didn't make the desert bloom, it desertificated cultivated area. With a great success to a large extent and until today.
link to palestineremembered.com
"There is nothing pseudo about Jews returning home. This is either the historic homeland of the Jews or it is not."
Well, it was the "historic" homeland of Hebrews, but the actual homeland of Palestinians. But because you have finally become an antizionist you support also the return of Palestinians to their home, correct?
"If it is, and we all know it is, then “F#&@” the British for imposing quotas as well as reneging on their commitments for a Jewish homeland on both the East Bank (Jordan today) and the West Bank (west of the Jordan River to the Mediteranean)."
You shouldn't read hasbara pamphlets. The commitment was only for a Jewish homeland "IN" Palestine not in the WHOLE of Palestine. And the mandates clearly says "The Administration of Palestine, WHILE ENSURING THE RIGHTS AND POSITIONS OF OTHER SECTIONS OF THE POPULATION ARE NOT PREJUDICED, shall FACILITATE Jewish immigration under suitable conditions and shall encourage, in co-operation with the Jewish agency referred to in Article 4, CLOSE SETTLEMENT by Jews on the land, ..."
So there was nothing wrong in imposing quotas. And regarding the national home the first general attorney of Palestine Bentwich (a Jewish Zionist) wrote:
"It signifies a territory in which a people, without receiving rights of political sovereignty, has nevertheless a recognized legal position and the opportunity of developing its moral, social, and intellectual ideas."
link to unispal.un.org
"At what point do the pseudo liberals say enough is enough? 100,00? 500,000? 1,000,000?"
Ooooh, giladg has finally become and Antizionist, too. Well the Mandatory said 75.000 after 1939 and added another 100.000 refugees.
dimadok: "Do you support illegal immigration ? ... Would you like to give up your neighborhood for illegal immigrants to live in?"
Finally you have become an Antizionist. :)
"The Arab and Muslim armies have marched on Israel on multiple occasions, ..."
When? Israel attacked it's neighbouring countries at least in 1956, 1967, 1982 and 2006. And in 1973 Egypt and Syria where only operating in their own territory trying to free it from Israel's occupation.
"Do you know how many Israelis have died or have been injured in these wars?"
While defending within partition borders or while attacking beyond them?
giladg "Normal, healthy thinking says hang on, you perpetrated acts of terror and war and people have died as a result, then a price needs to paid and those responsible need to be held accountable."
The universal moralist giladg supports bringing all Jews in front of the International Criminal Court which commited war crimes, crimes against humanity and the crime of Apartheid.
Amazing article. Everything you wanted to know about Zionism but were afraid to ask.
Fredblogs agenda: Justifying Jewish violence.
Fredblogs: "Run their cars into Israeli soldiers or police then tried to get away. The accident made him look like a terrorist. "
Attacking Israeli soldiers is not a terrorist attack but a legal and moral right to resistance.
And Israel in its Cast Lead campaign of destruction killed 300 police men on the first day.
So if you make war in a way that makes your terrorist attacks look like counter-terrorism, your counter terrorism will be mistaken for terrorist attacks.
Fredblogs: "It’s armor plated to defend itself against terrorist attacks."
The IDF bulldozers are committing war crimse and a crimes against humanity when they bury homes and sometimes even civilians with them. That's not a "defense", it's a campaign of destruction. And attacking occuyping forces is by no means "terrorism" but a moral and legal right.
A youtube video won't help. But maybe Corrie's posthum conversion to Judaism.
Fredblogs says: "@Talkback
OK, I stand corrected, it isn’t just Woody Tanaka that doesn’t know the difference between a policeman trying to arrest someone and a Nazi trying to kill someone."
I didn't write anything about a Nazi trying to kill someone. I wrote:
"Universal moralist Fredblogs’ lesson for today:
Do also never intervene when Jewish children are hunted down TO ARREST THEM because of pathetic nationalist reasons."
Isn't it peculiar that YOU associate YOUR MIRRORED MORAL with Nazis when it's applied to Jewish children?
Fredblogs"Some free advice, if a policeman is chasing someone don’t interfere. Regardless of what that person did, interfering with the police is a crime."
How many Jews were killed in the Holocaust, because people were as obidient as you are?
Universal moralist Fredblogs' lesson for today:
Do also never intervene when Jewish children are hunted down to arrest them because of pathetic nationalist reasons.
This boy was 15, too:
"He reports that an interrogator named “Da’ud” in Gush Etzion settlement attached a pair of car battery jump leads to his genitals and threatened to electrify the cable."
link to dci-palestine.org
"When lives are in danger ... not only is it permitted to shoot but it is a requirement ..."
Universal moralist Ykohen teaches us:
When Gentiles lives are in danger it is a requirement to shoot Jews, too.
That does not only count for Gentiles (Palestinians) living under Jewish Apartheid and siege but also for Gentiles who are threatened to be attacked (Iran, etc.).
Fredblogs: "In the independence war, the Arabs killed over 6000 Jews."
Isn't it strange that only about 1000 of them were defending Jewish settlements and about half of them died were killed beyond partition borders?
OlegR:
"If Jews have not rights then the Palestinians have no rights either
and then might is right."
OlegR teaches us today:
Palestinians have a right to "return" to their "historic homeland" and settle everywhere, especially in the disputed territory called "Israel".
Now Woody that's unfair! They don't just stand by them, they protect them.
"I can state that if i were in those settlers place without the proper body armor
and a helmet on my head i would definitely feel in danger for my life."
We allready know, OlegR. If a Jew feels stress, fear or has a high adrenaline level it's understandable, if he shoots Palestinians.
Universal moralist OlegR teaches us today:
It's also ok to shoot Jews when you feel like it.
You see how valuable Zionist teachings about morality and history are, Annie?
"Jews are always liberal, we believe in the rights of everybody, but at some point you have to like, take a stand on what's right for your people." link to mondoweiss.net
My lesson from Zionists today:
German's are always liberal, but at some point they had to like, take a stand on what's right for their people.
"If you win land under attack, then it's your land."
Must be from a Zionist fortune cookie.
Every day I learn something new from Zionists. Today:
When Jews are forced to live without rights, it's only an unfortunate situation and to maintain the status quo is an option.
Got to revaluate some periods in Jewish history.
"Well you did it to the Native Americans, who are you to tell us not to do it?"
I thought I allready learned something from Zionists today, but this is my second lesson:
If someone's committing genocide against Jews he can tell them: Well you did it to the Amalekites, who are you to tell us not to do it?
Oh wait, that was my third lesson. The second one was:
Jews had no right to uprise in the Warsaw ghetto, because they were dressed as civilians. (Because of "perfidity", read international law)
"If Israeli exports to EU are going down, that would seem to be a result of BDS and other “people power” decisions, not government acts."
Hopefully. But we cannot be certain how many % of this drop is the result of BDS. The usual consumer might only boycott imported foodstuffs labeled as "Israel" and some of Israel's exports are seasonal. The European crisis adds to the problem.
@ Fredblogs
"As for the U.N., when the rest of the world starts obeying them when it isn’t in their own best interests to do it, then what they make will be law. Until then it is just suggestions ..."
What I've learned from Zionists like Fredblogs today:
The Holocaust was not illegal, because not all the countries obeyed to international law or the League of Nations. Germany for example didn't.
"Israel has no more obligation to provide for the Palestinians than Micronesia does."
It has according to the Geneva Conventions it ratified.
Could work if Israel would follow international law, stop the occupation, abandon the settlements let the refugees return to their homeland. (This also counts for 1/4 of Israel Arabs which Israel doesn't allow to return to their property.)
@ Fredblogs
"Israel blockades Gaza, it doesn’t occupy it."
Again, if Israel was occupied and the occupying troops were camping outside of Tel-Aviv and not inside; would you consider Tel Aviv not to be part of an occupied territory and not occupied?
Many commenters on Mondoweiss have tried to explain to you why Gaza is still occupied or a part of an occupied territory. ( SEC RES 1860: "Stressing that the Gaza Strip constitutes an integral part of the territory occupied in 1967 ...") After some debate you drop the conversation and then repeat your same nonsense somewhere else like a true hasbara autist. I'm sure you're going to do the same this time.
"The blockade is a security measure, not a punishment."
The "security measures" prevent Gazans from getting half of the aid they got before the blockade. So it is a collective punishment.
And guys like Daniel Goldhagen have the same sociopathic attitude like antisemites who want to convince us that there something peculiar in Jews in general.
That is what actually amazes me: Jews who act and talk like an anti gentile aquivalent of an antisemite. Double standards or lack of self awareness?
It's guys with Plaut's sociopathic attitude that made Auschwitz possible.
Consumer Protection Act - South Africa Government Online
LABELLING OF PRODUCTS ORIGINATING FROM OCCUPIED PALESTINIAN TERRITORY WRONGLY LABELLED AS ORIGINATING IN ISRAEL IN TERMS OF SECTION 24 OF THE CONSUMER PROTECTION ACT, ACT 68 OF 2008 (ACT)
link to info.gov.za
More on the same from Denmark:
Israeli settlement produce label
New Danish labelling to show what produce comes from Israeli settlements.
link to politiken.dk
Products from Israeli settlements should be labelled, Søvndal says
link to cphpost.dk
OlegR: "I can fully understand Ziad’s actions after he run over those borders guards but i can also understand their reaction."
Answer his question: "If they were worried that he was a suicide bomber why would Maxim go towards Ziad? Wouldn’t you stay away and shoot from far to make sure he had no vest?"
"The argument “but you started it” as diversion tactic."
That is not my argument.
"Or is it a justification ?"
It was you who wrote "i can understand clearly their actions".
"I assume the 3 Fogel family children are among those 8 settlers?"
Yes.
Again: Given the fact that “Over 90% of monitored complaints regarding settler violence filed by Palestinians with the Israeli police in recent years have been closed without indictment. (Yesh Din)” (same link) what action of Palestinians could you “understand clearly”?
@ OlegR
"Because i don’t know how i would have reacted to
high adrenaline levels and the stress that comes with that sort
of point blank situation."
What I've learned from you today is:
It is justified to shoot Jews in the back of the head from point blank range, if one thinks they act suspicous and this produces fear, high adrenaline or stress.
Thank you, OlegR.
@ Annie
... including the compensation of defense expenditures and promotion to a higher rank of the most moral army of the world.
link to en.wikipedia.org
"Here is a list of running over terrorist attacks just from the recent years:"
Listing Jewish terrorist attacks might bring the Mondoweiss site down. How about a map about settler violence:
West Bank : Settler Violence Incidents Map in 2011
link to ochaopt.org
Given the fact that "Over 90% of monitored complaints regarding settler violence filed by Palestinians with the Israeli police in recent years have been closed without indictment. (Yesh Din)" (same link) what action of Palestinians could you "understand clearly"?
"Not sure how i would have responded to such circumstances but i can’t rule out that i would have shot the guy just like Vinogradov did."
Of course only as a victim of high adrenaline levels and fear induced by "the guy", because you could never be a perpetrator, right?
How about a blockade and making 60% of Israel food insecure? For security reasons Israel-style, you know.
And the shooting continues:
"He was working in fields near al-Qarara, north-east of Khan Younis, when a soldier opened fire from a military watch-tower, Salmiya added.
An Israeli military spokeswoman said she had no record of the incident."
link to maannews.net
"The Palestinians have no legal right ..."
Do you really want to start a discussion about rights? You're a Zionist, never forget that. We won't.
"... while dressed as civilians."
What were the Jews in Warsaw Ghetto Uprising dressed like? Or did they have no legal right to do what they did?
Think before you write, Fredblogs.
@ Fredblogs.
"Your numbers don’t add up. 69 injured per week would be about 3500 injured in a year, not 1339. With 1339 injured in a year, the average injured per week would be about 26."
1339 injuries in 19 weeks of 2012 are 69 average per week. The year 2012 is not over yet. Who knows how many demonstraters the most moral army of the only democracy in the middle east is going to injure or even kill in the remaining weeks.
@ OlegR
"And you (as always when it suits) ignored my remark regarding the
one sided broken lull headline."
Here's something for you to ignore:
"Protection of civilians Weekly Report 9-15 May
"At least 370 Palestinians were injured by Israeli forces in demonstrations commemorating the 64th anniversary of what Palestinians refer to as the 1948 An Nakba (the catastrophe).
Israeli authorities demolished seven Palestinian-owned livelihood structures due to the lack of Israeli-issued building permits, affecting over 40 people. ...
Palestinian casualties by Israeli forces:
Killed this week: 0
Killed in 2012: 3
Killed in 2011: 11
Injured this week: 441; majority in demonstrations
Injured in 2012: 1,339
2012 weekly average of injured: 69
2011 weekly average of injured: 28
Search-and-arrest operations by Israeli forces this
week: 57 ...
Overall in 2012, 85 percent of Palestinian injuries by Israeli
military forces have occurred in the context of demonstrations protesting settlement takeover of land and water resources, or access restrictions aimed at protecting settlements or allowing for their expansion. ...
This week, OCHA recorded eight incidents that led to the injury of two Palestinians and damage to over 430 trees. In two separate incidents in the vicinity of the two Israeli settlements of Karmei Tzur and Yizhar, Israeli settlers physically assaulted and stoned a farmer and a shepherd, injuring them. Also this week, Israeli settlers cut down or uprooted around 430 trees, including over 280 olive trees, belonging to the Palestinian communities of Burin (Nablus), Yasuf (Salfit), Al Khader (Bethlehem)
and At Tuwani and Beit Ummar (Hebron). Since the beginning of the year, around 3,070 trees, the majority of which were olive trees, have been
vandalized by settlers. ...
Settler-related incidents:
Settler-related incidents resulting in injuries or
property damage:
This week: 8
2012 weekly average: 6
2011 weekly average: 8
Palestinians injuries by settler violence:
This week: 2
Injured in 2012: 50
2011 weekly average: 4
Israeli settlers injured by Palestinians:
This week: 0
Injured in 2012: 15
Injured in 2011: 37 ...
Palestinian-owned structures demolished
in the West Bank, including East Jerusalem
This week:
Demolished: 7
Displaced: 0
Demolished in 2012: 285
People displaced in 2012: 477
2012 vs. 2011 demolitions (weekly av.): 15 vs. 12
2012 vs. 2011 people displaced (weekly av.): 25 vs. 21
Palestinian casualties by Israeli forces in the
Gaza Strip:
Killed this week: 0
Killed in 2012: 29
Injured this week: 8
Injured in 2012: 155
2012 weekly average of injured: 9
2011 weekly average of injured: 9 ..."
/ocha_opt_protection_of_civilians_weekly_report_2012_05_18_english.pdf
One sided, right?
"That would be some time after the Palestinians stop sending people in civilian attire to approach the fence to plant bombs."
Does Israel have to prove this before killing or injuring?
Samuel T.
Any source that they were fired "into Israeli Civilian Targets"? Or just made up?
Farming verboten.
giladg: "What are you smoking Shmuel?"
Asks giladg who asks for reconciliation BEFORE abolotion of the crimes of Apartheid and implies that G-d gave this land to the Jews.
Do your insights come from drug induced conversations with a burning bush?
Jerusalem was the capital of Palestine between 1923 and 1948. Why do you not know this giladg?
We are witnessing the hilarious self-deprecation of Zionism.
"When will we learn that any land given to them will only be a launching pad for future attacks against us?" (Settler)
After reading this I can understand that Palestinians rejected partition with the same arguments.
Poor Jews. Again they are the victims of Palestinians, because they prevent Jews from recognizing the crimes they commit against them. And if Palestinians talk about this crimes they do this only for antisemitic reasons. Oh the humanity!
@ tombishop
"The analogy of South African apartheid to the situation on the West Bank is limited."
Read the international definition of the crime of Apartheid.
"If Beinart acknowledges it "would" be wrong for Israel to do this (in an imagined future), was it wrong to do it in the past?"
In the past it was 'good for the Jews', in the future it wouldn't. This has nothing to do with universal and eternal morality.
"As long as ROR is on the table there will be no peace."
Translation: Colonialists consider the maintainance of expulsion of the natives to be peaceful.
"ROR is a clear attempt to reverse the results of 1948"
True. Return is the reverse of flight and expulsion.
"Some would love to see it happen but i am sorry to inform you that it will not."
What about Hertzl's dream?
"Trying to do so will only lead to more violence and more losses,
mainly to the Palestinians."
Translation: Colonialists will massacre more natives if they try to return to their homeland.
I found this in the Hebrew version of Haaretz:
"The Finance Committee approved a special transfer of NIS 44 million for the Settlement Division, all assigned to the settlements in Judea and Samaria. Of this amount, 17 million were earmarked for compensating settlers Migron outpost in the compromise reached by the government."
link to translate.googleusercontent.com
"Here he says You Can’t Give Jerusalem To The Savages: link to bit.ly
Talking like a true white colonialist.
About the Tirzu bullshit:
1.) It doesn't matter where people came from before 1948, if they were or became citizens of Palestine.
2.) 2/3 of the Jews in 1948 were not citizens of Palestine and therefore had no political rights.
3.) There was no significant immigration of Nonjews into Palestine during the Mandate, only internal migration.
4.) Nakba deniers are as sick as Holocaust deniers.
It did, Mooser. But this is about the "right of conquest" which was (only gradually before, but) finally abandoned after the Nuremberg Trials and internationally implemented in the UN charter. No?
giladg: "If the Palestinians want to learn from the Blacks in South Africa, and they can learn a lot, then lookup the words “Reconciliation” and “Recognition”."
Ashekenazi colonialists could learn from the Boers to give up Apartheid and give the land and control back to the natives which allready make up the majority in Palestine even if your junta keeps the expelles outside by force to maintain the Ashekenazi domination (which is Apartheid, too).
I like this comment: "Israel has sovereign rights in the West Bank by Right of Conquest."
"Right of Conquest". His mind is stuck in 1939. LOL.
OlegR what do you think of Apartheid South Africa prison system?
In comparison.
@ tree
"This link to the report from the Israeli NGO, Gisha, has been posted before. It might help you to actually read these things and not simply repeat ignorant arguments that bear no relationship to reality."
That's the reason why I didn't answer asherpat. (S)He could read Gisha, OCHA oPt, B'Tselem, Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch ... . But (s)he DOESN't want to know. (S)He just wants do deny. I'm bored with this autistic behaviour: Always repeating the same allready answered questions or disproven hasbara.
And I learned from Zionist apologists to draw this line: I won't discuss with people who legitimize the destruction of Palestine and the expulsion of it's citizens.
Demand: 360MW (100%)
Produced in Gaza: could be up to 80 MW (22,2%), but Israel restricts the import of fuel as a punitive measure , so it's only 25 MW (6,9%)
Purchased from Israel: 120 MW (33,3%)
Purchased from Egypt: 22 MW (6,1%)
Total: 167 MW (46,3%)
link to ochaopt.org
(Includes power supply map)
link to ochaopt.org
This were the borders for a "Jewish national home" proposed by the Zionists at the Paris Peace Conference in 1919:
link to mideastweb.org
"The Jews came from the Tribe of JUDAH ..."
LOL. Does this include mass conversions to Judaism in it's proselyting years and Ashkenazi Jews?
This one does: link to norwichpsc.org.uk
The more they blat antisemitism, the more they want to hide their own racism.
"Of the “Jewish State” in the Partition Plan, the UN counted roughly 500,000 Jews and 400,000 Arabs, but also listed 100,000 Bedouins, who were counted separately from those 400,000 Arabs. So even in the 55% allotted, Jews were just barely the majority, if that."
No, they weren't!
“It will thus be seen that the proposed Jewish State will contain a total population of 1,008,800, consisting of 509,780 Arabs and 499,020 Jews. In other words, at the outset, the Arabs will have a majority in the proposed Jewish State.”
link to domino.un.org
page 41
"You all cannot adequately explain and/or justify the actions of the Palestinians and the Arab and Muslim world in 1948 when they rejected the UN partition plan that gave them everything, and a whole lot more, but yet they chose war instead.
Had they accepted the UN plan, many lives would have been saved. Many families would have been spared the heartbreak(s) of losing family members.
The Arabs must be held responsible for their mistake in 1948. Don’t sweep their actions under the carpet."
The UN was not in position to give the Palestinians what allready belonged to them. And if the Jewish separatists had accepted the legal outcome of the mandate (Independence) and hadn't try to conquer Palestine instead, many lives would have been saved. Instead they chose war, massacre and expulsion to conquer land and achieve a Jewish majority. To put it in your words: "Now that is just not right, and you know it."
"In the partition area set aside for Israel, Jews were in a majority before the partition."
They were not. Besides the fact that 2/3 weren't even citizens of Palestine (and therefore had no political rights or claims in Palestine) the Nonjews were a slight majority. And neither the Arab nor the Jewish Citizens were asked what they wanted. The GOI just claim to represent them and even world Jewry.
"Israel has never legally annexed any of these territories."
And when did Israel legally annex it's own territory? It was conquered through war and against the will of the majority of the citizens of Palestine. The mandatory goverment dissolved because of Jewish terrorism. The establishment of Israel was nothing else than a paramilitary coup d'etat.