Commenter Profile

Total number of comments: 4536 (since 2010-02-26 10:49:56)

An old Jewish guy in Oz. Tired of the fallacies surrounding the I/P issue. We were given the territory for a homeland state, with more than enough room for every Jewish person on the planet. Even today. Since declaration, Israel has illegally acquired more and more territory outside of it's actual proclaimed and recognized Sovereign boundaries and it encourages Israeli civilians to break laws that were adopted in large part because of the treatment of our Jewish fellows under the Nazis. All I ask is that Israel adhere to the law, under which it can easily protect itself, grow and prosper. The Palestinians ask for their legal rights under the Laws all states are obliged to uphold. Israel demands more and more non-Israeli land. I've received too many threats for opposing Israel's policies towards the Palestinians, broken windows, graffiti'd walls, hate mail, I'd prefer to remain anonymous, if that's OK. Who I am is irrelevant. It's the information that counts. :-)

Website: http://talknic.wordpress.com

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  • Like an unrequited lover, 'NYT' confesses itself heartbroken over Israel's (latest) betrayal of democracy
  • 'What is your religion?' question surprises two American visitors to the occupation
  • Palestinian students fear for their lives during attack on train car in Jerusalem
    • @ yonah fredman Go whine to the people who're responsible for Israelis illegally being in Occupied Territories link to wp.me where they're very likely to become the victims of the violence expected when you occupy another people. More so when you steal their territory.

      GC IV exists to protect civilians, including those of the Occupying Power. Only really stupid, sick, &*&^wit Governments would purposefully encourage and assist their citizens to break such a law. Seems that's the only sort of Government Israel has ever had ...

    • @ Jackdaw "Front page news on Mondoweiss, and not a word about the incident anywhere else"

      FIRST LINE " We picked up this frightening report from Ya Aini (Arabic), a local news website"

      Intelligent help sure must be hard to come by at Hasbara central

    • @ ivri
      Well, this student feared for his life but the 4 Rabbis did not have that luxury "

      They could have lived in Israel instead of illegally in Territories Occupied by Israel link to wp.me

      Take your pathetic whining to those responsible for them breaking GC IV, a convention adopted to protect ALL civilians including those of the Occupying Power from the almost certain violent consequences of occupying another people and their territory

  • Kahanists attack school after synagogue killings
  • Muslims' beliefs are 'untrue' and 'ridiculous,' 'Salon' author says, offering support for Maher's intolerance
    • @ jayn0t "You can criticize the barbarity and moronity of Islam without being obliged to criticize other religions at the same time"

      Odd. If we criticize Israel's illegal policies in territories"outside the State of Israel" it seems we are obliged to criticize events within Syria and everywhere else there are Muslims in the world e.g., link to blogs.timesofisrael.com

      If we should take your stance and hold a critical dialogue on the Jewish texts and their moronic barbarity, misogyny, bigotry, racism, intolerance, incitements to hatred and calls to enslave and to slaughter even innocent children, you'd be OK with that .... right?

      "I remember her apologies for stoning people to death – it was that people had different standards in those days."

      She was right link to en.wikipedia.org

      Did you have a point?

      "She should be regarded with Dawkins/Harris/Denett/Hitchens contempt"

      Uh huh. So we should all believe in a G-d who didn't even bother to turn up for the Holocaust? I'll take my chances elsewhere thx

  • Settlers spit on Abu Khdeir family as they exit court; alleged killer refuses to enter plea
    • @ weiss "And yet another reason why I am Ashamed to be Jewish"

      Uh? Murder and spitting on the parents of the murder victim aren't Jewish values.

      Jews could have been living anywhere in the Jewish People's Historical homeland per the LoN Mandate for Palestine, with equal rights, freedom of religion. Sans the Zionist Movement's demand for a separate Jewish state, would this type of thing be happening?

      The values of the state the Zionist colonizers demanded are decidedly un-Jewish. The State of Israel is the most divisive issue we have ever faced. Judaism survived thousands of years without a state because being Jewish is a state of mind

  • Israel bans renowned doctor and human rights activist Mads Gilbert from entering Gaza for life
    • Jackdaw? Hey Jackdaw .... you gone already? You wouldn't've had to leave so soon if you didn't talk sh*te!

    • @ Jackdaw "Perhaps Dr. Gilbert should try to enter Gaza via Egypt"

      You're spouting ziopoop pal.

      Bet you can't answer these simple questions:

      1) If Israel is not the Occupying Power over Gaza, why do all goods entering Gaza thru Egypt have to pass thru the ISRAELI checkpoint?
      2) If Israel is not the Occupying Power why does it have the right to control all Palestinian territorial waters and airspace?
      3) If Israel is not the Occupying Power, how is it that Israel can make military incursions into Gaza without first making a declaration of intent with the UNSC ?

    • @ mondonut "They are not, if the good Dr. would like to go to Gaza through Egypt he is free to try."

      Support information please .... thx .... I'll wait ... forever! Because I know you don't have any!

      Meanwhile, why is it that ALL goods going into Gaza from Egypt must pass thru the Israeli checkpoint?

      "Except of course the Egyptians have closed their crossings for going on 3 weeks, with barely a peep from the Mondos"

      Egypt is NOT ultimately responsible for Israeli decisions. Israel the Occupying Power has final say under the 2005 crossings agreement and; Egypt is obliged to Israel under the Egypt/Israel Peace Treaty.

  • Why I confronted Gregor Gysi
    • hophmi "I didn’t say Sheen and Blumenthal."

      tch tch tch lying will not get you anywhere especially when what you did write is still there for all to see ...

      hophmi
      November 13, 2014, 10:22 am

      Are you going to take responsibility, David, for the threats made on the lives of Jews in reaction to Max’s -stated Israel-Nazi comparisons?

    • @ hophmi " You were banned because you endorse obsessively comparing Israel with Nazi Germany"

      Yup! As long as Israel IS in breach of laws and a UN Charter based in large part on the treatment of our Jewish fellows under the Nazis, Jewish folk everywhere should be very active in seeing their state change it's ways. If that involves pointing out Israel's naziesque behaviour, it isn't Max's fault. Shooting the messenger doesn't resolve anything

      Meanwhile the Jewish state obsessively continues to build illegal settlements in non-Israeli territory. The Jewish state obsessively continues its policy of collective punishment and has active MPs who obsess over cleansing the Jewish state of its non-Jewish Arab citizens. Quite naziesque and YOU obsessively support it.

      "Step outside the cult, and you might understand that"

      International Law is a cult. WOW! I wonder why Israel obliged itself to adhere to it or join the UN for that matter all it has done is show the world that Israel's leaders and the Jewish agency were f*(&ing liars

      "Maybe now more people will realize what a thug Max Blumenthal is"

      Strange. Max Blumenthal merely advocates that Israel adheres to its legal obligations. He hasn't dispossessed anyone and doesn't advocate dispossessing anyone of their rightful place. He doesn't illegally settle, doesn't advocate that people illegally settle, does not practice or advocate collective punishment. YOU and your kind DO!

      You must be very proud

  • Video: Routine exchange on a bus reveals racism embedded within Jewish Israeli society
    • @ DoubleStandard "You don’t live here. I live here. I know what it’s like to take buses and he legitimately afraid that they might be blown up. ..... it’s understandable given what’s going on

      Take your pathetic whining to the Zionist Federation, Jewish Agency or Israeli Govt, they're the cause of 'what's going on'!

      Endless territorial theft and oppression by a state over non-Jewish Arabs including non-Jewish Israelis, so " it’s understandable" that eventually there will be some violent reaction, especially when all else has failed and thus far, all else HAS failed. Despite hundreds of UNSC resolutions affording Israel the opportunity to abide by the binding laws they re-affirm and emphasize, the so called Jewish state is still in breach of International law & UN Charter adopted in large part because of the treatment of our Jewish fellows by the *&^%$# Nazis!!

    • @ Jackdaw
      "All women, Jews and Arabs, have their bags searched at entrances to malls and buildings. Men are sometimes asked if they’re carrying a weapon"

      A) You're spouting nonsense
      B) This incident was on a bus

      "This is Israel. Sorry"

      Yes, so you should be.

    • @ OyVey00 " Israel is not a peaceful country..."

      True. Almost immediately on acceptance into the UN Israel was illegally demanding non-Israeli territories and ignoring UNSC resolutions and the Conciliation Commission

      Israel is drenched in war. It was was recognized and accepted for UN Membership while at war in non-Israeli territories, while occupying non-Israeli territories, while it was illegally claiming non-Israeli territories and while it was illegally settling its citizens in non-Israeli territories.

      Israel has had troops in non-Israeli territories for 66 years, protecting Israeli citizens who have no right to be illegally in territories the Israeli Govt claimed were "outside the State of Israel" ... "in Palestine"

      Israel had already illegally acquired by war large tracts of non-Israeli territory by 1949 none of which have ever been legally annexed to Israel.

      Now theZionist Movement's state apparatus lies to Israelis, selling them land in territory not yet belonging to the State of Israel, endangering Israeli civilian lives by lying about the GC's and the illegal settlements, lying about the illegal annexation of East Jerusalem and lying about 66 years of occupying non-Israeli territory, lies to the world, lies to itself.

      "... but a society in a perpetual state of war."

      Go bitch to the Israeli Government, it has been Israel since 00:01 May 15th 1948 (ME time) illegally acquiring other folks territory by war. No one has ever made an illegal claim on or illegally annexed anything of Israel's.

      Now Israel is so far in the 'facts on the ground' sh*te, it cannot afford to adhere to the law, it must negotiate a plea bargain with the Palestinians in order to circumvent the law under which it would be required to withdraw, take its illegal settlers, pay reparations AND allow RoR of its Arab Israeli citizens of 1948. But in a true sign of insanity, the Jewish state continues to demand more and more non-Israeli territory, without any legal basis what so ever.

      " And with the recent unrests, it’s understandable that people are afraid of terrorist attacks"

      Let 'em complain to the Zionist Movement's state, who by occupying another people and by illegally claiming occupied territory create an environment where there is very likely to be violent repercussions. That's why GC IV applies to ALL civilians including those of the Occupying Power, in order to protect them Now I ask, what sort of a sick govt encourages people to break laws that have been adopted to protect them?

      "There’s alot of footage featuring actual racism against gentiles in Israel, but this isn’t one.

      Care to point one out that isn't defended by the usual Ziopoop?

    • @ OyVey00 " Since Jews have no reason to attack Israeli buses."

      Uh huh. link to 972mag.com

      " .. of course that fear focuses on the Arab population..."

      Uh huh. link to wp.me far more than 20%

      " That’s not racism, it’s common sense."

      It's racism, to the point of denying Arab Jews their proper history. To deny people their proper history isn't common sense, it's idiocy.

  • Sea change down under: Ex-Australian Foreign Minister announces himself a 'Friend of Palestine'
    • @ Mayhem "a resounding rebuff ..."

      It doesn't actually rebuff ANYTHING Carr has said. It's typical transparent run of the mill deflection, shoot the messenger, ziopoop

      //“Hamas has shown considerable technical skill building rockets, missiles and tunnels but these skills should be harnessed to improve its people’s lives. Instead of encouraging constructive dialogue, Carr plays to the victim mentality. "//

      Strange, Israel was destroying what was built to improve people's lives in Gaza, long before Hamas came into existence and is still destroying what has been built to improve lives in Gaza

      The Zionist Federation decided to colonize (1897) Palestine 90 years BEFORE Hamas existed (1987). Israel began to colonize territories the Israeli Government claimed were"outside the State of Israel" ... "in Palestine" 37 years BEFORE Hamas existed. Hamas are a response

      The Palestinians didn't ask to be colonized, they ARE the victims. They have taken NOTHING of Israel's. Israel has been illegally acquiring Palestinian territory from the moment Israel was proclaimed "as an independent republic within frontiers approved by the General Assembly of the United Nations in its Resolution of November 29, 1947 "

      But hey, let's play along with The Australian Jewish News.

      If Hamas was using the limited materials they have access to rebuild what Israel keeps destroying, would Israel
      1) end the 66 year occupation it began 39 years BEFORE Hamas existed?
      2) withdraw all its troops and Israeli settlers from all non-Israeli territory Israel illegally acquired 39 years BEFORE Hamas existed?
      3) Allow the return of non-Jewish Israelis who'd been cleansed under Plan Dalet 39yrs BEFORE Hamas existed.
      4) Pay reparations for all the damage it has caused for the past 66 years?
      5) Lift the blockade?
      6) Suddenly start to adhere to International Law and the UN Charter?

      What exactly would Israel do?

      "Therein lies the difference between those who welcome an integration of Palestinian and Israeli economies to the benefit all rather than the destructive negativity of Carr”

      A "resounding rebuff" should surely deal with what Mr Carr actually said. It doesn't and; Israel DOESN'T welcome an integration of Palestinian and Israeli economies to the benefit all, it steals, lies and denies and is only protected by the US UNSC veto vote.

      " Sadly, he is no friend of Israel or of the Palestinians”

      Zionist arrogance wants to take all the toys... It's up to the Palestinians to decide whether Carr is a friend or not, not some pumped up apologist for Zionist colonialism

      Meanwhile a friend warns you when you've had too much to drink ... Israel has had hundreds of opportunities to abide by the binding laws emphasized in hundreds of UNSC resolutions, it has failed to accept the terms under which it became a UN member, it has instead become a drunkard

  • What is the vision of Jews who want to replace Al Aqsa mosque with temple?
  • As world marks 25 years since the fall of the Berlin Wall, Israel's Wall has become a new global icon for oppression
    • @ ivri "There is a pathetic element in the aroused sensitivity to human right issues since WW2 and the Jewish Holocaust in it that finds its expression among Europeans in identifying in the Israel-Palestinian conflict once more the Jews as the villains"

      Who are the villains? Please correct me if I'm wrong...

      The Palestinians DID NOT decide to colonize Israel. In 1897, long before the Holocaust, the Jewish led Zionist Federation DID decide to colonize Palestine! link to jewishencyclopedia.com ( At the time, Jews could have and did migrate to Palestine, gain legitimate citizenship, bought land and settled anywhere in the Jewish People's Historic homeland without it being necessary for a separate Jewish State. Odd that Herzl could have but didn't bother! )

      The Palestinians HAVE NOT taken any territory belonging to the Jewish state. The Jewish state HAS illegally acquired by war over half of what remained of Palestine after the Jewish state was declared independent of Palestine! link to pages.citebite.com

      The Palestinians DO NOT have any territory belonging to the Jewish state under occupation. The Jewish state HAS all of Palestine under occupation!

      The Palestinians DO NOT have any illegal settlers in any territory belonging to the Jewish state. The Jewish state DOES actively encourage its citizens to illegally settle in Occupied Palestinian Territories! link to domino.un.org

      The Palestinians DO NOT have any citizens of the Jewish state in Palestinian gaols. The Jewish state DOES hold Palestinian men women and children in Jewish state gaols without charge!

      The Palestinians DO NOT demand any territory belonging to the Jewish state for their defense or to illegally settle and; the Palestinians DO NOT demand that the Jewish state disarm. The Jewish state DOES demand, without any legal basis what so ever, that Palestine disarms and that Palestine cedes parts of Palestinian territory for Israel's defense.

      The Palestinians WERE NOT given more than half of their own territory for a state, they had more than half of their existing state TAKEN from them. More than half of Palestine was given and taken for the Jewish state, completely gratis!

      None of the Jewish leaders of the Zionist Federation who decided to colonize Palestine in 1897 were from Palestine.

      None of the Jewish leaders of the Zionist Federation who decided to colonize Palestine in 1897 were Holocaust survivors.

      Only one of the signatories to the Jewish state's declaration of statehood was from the region and; NONE represented the 20% non-Jewish population. link to mondoweiss.net

      The provisional Govt of the Zionist led Jewish state, peppered with terrorists link to nationalarchives.gov.uk immediately reneged on the constitution it promised Israelis. link to pages.citebite.com

      The Zionist led Jewish state has never had a legally elected government, under a constitution.

      The Palestinians have no forces in Israel. The Zionist led Jewish state has had its military forces in "outside the State of Israel" ... "in Palestine" for 66 years. link to pages.citebite.com

      You support a Zionist led state now in breach of laws and a UN Charter adopted in large part because of the treatment of our Jewish fellows under the &*(# Nazis.

      You support a Zionist led Jewish state that has lied to its citizens about its borders for 66 years link to trumanlibrary.org

      You support a Zionist led Jewish state that lies to its citizens about UN bias link to wp.me

      You support a Zionist led Jewish state that illegally sells land in occupied territory not yet belonging to the Jewish state to citizens it encourages to illegally settle

      You support a Zionist led Jewish state that actively encourages its citizens to break the very laws that were adopted to protect ALL civilians including those of the Occupying Power from the almost certain violent consequences of occupying another people.

      You and all like you are the problem

  • In and out of love with Israel: Tzvia Thier's story
    • @ Mikhael
      ///To sum up: Israel is not and was never intended to be anything but a religion-supremacist “Jewish State”///

      "Nope. The words of the Israeli Declaration of Independence, where the government declared it would ensure complete equality of social and political rights to all its inhabitants irrespective of religion, race or sex; it will guarantee freedom of religion, conscience, language, education and culture;are in full force and effect "

      A) " as envisaged by the prophets of Israel"

      B) Israel has yet to write a constitution and then legally elect a govt for the first time.

    • @ Mikhael

      "When and if a Palestinian Arabs state arises (for the first time in history),"

      You're at least 92 years late and full of bullsh*t!

      LoN Covenant Article 22 link to pages.citebite.com

      LoN Mandate FOR Palestine 1st line link to pages.citebite.com

      According to your weird wonderful and warped theory the League of Nations recognized something that didn't exist.

    • How about the web designers put back the USEFUL functions like edit or give a preview option. Their vast vacant white space plains are beautiful and very trendy, completely uninformative, useless and do not add ANYTHING to having easy and informative discussion

      @ W.Jones "Isn’t that what happened? What happened instead?"

      According to the Israeli Government

      "On the night of 14-15 May, the regular forces of Jordan, Egypt, Syria and Lebanon invaded Palestine. The Egyptian Foreign Minister informed the Security Council that "Egyptian armed forces have started to enter Palestine to establish law and order" (his cable to the Security Council, S/743, 15 May 1948). The Governments of the Arab League States issued a statement on 15 May 1948, as their forces were advancing into Palestine"

      As of 00:01 May 15th 1948 (ME time) Israel was independent, Israeli territories were no longer a part of or in "Palestine" (ibid)

      According to the Israeli Government May 22nd 1948 The 1948 war took place in territories "outside the State of Israel" ... "in Palestine"

      There are no UNSC resolutions against any state condemning any alleged attack against Israel. As Regional Powers and UN Member States (except Jordan) the Arab States had a legal right to attempt to expel foreign forces in what remained of Palestine after Israel was proclaimed as "an independent republic within frontiers approved by the General Assembly of the United Nations in its Resolution of November 29, 1947"

    • @ W.Jones "Isn’t that what happened? What happened instead?"

      According to the Israeli Government

      "On the night of 14-15 May, the regular forces of Jordan, Egypt, Syria and Lebanon invaded Palestine. The Egyptian Foreign Minister informed the Security Council that "Egyptian armed forces have started to enter Palestine to establish law and order" (his cable to the Security Council, S/743, 15 May 1948). The Governments of the Arab League States issued a statement on 15 May 1948, as their forces were advancing into Palestine"

      Israel was independent, Israeli territories were no longer a part of or in "Palestine" (ibid)

      According to the Israeli Government May 22nd 1948 The 1948 war took place in territories "outside the State of Israel" ... "in Palestine"

      There are no UNSC resolutions against any state condemning any alleged attack against Israel. As Regional Powers and UN Member States (except Jordan) the Arab States had a legal right to attempt to expel foreign forces in what remained of Palestine after Israel was proclaimed as "an independent republic within frontiers approved by the General Assembly of the United Nations in its Resolution of November 29, 1947"

  • Root cause of current crisis is Israeli government effort since 1967 to transform East Jerusalem into a Jewish city
    • @ Mooser "Look, really, it’s just a bunch of Jews that Israel is taking advantage of, so hey, what’s the big deal? Can’t Israel do as it likes with its own people?"

      Yes, in a democrazy .... demockra.... democracy, if their own people are willing to allow it.

      However, if their own people are un-aware, they're likely to rebel when and if they eventually find out they've been shafted. Who knows, maybe even start beheading the perpetraitors (sic)

    • Kay24 " Lying is second nature to zionists."

      "second" ? It's first nature. 1st they lie to themselves .....

      Nothing they claim justifies their position, there is no legal basis for any of their claims on non-Israeli territory and their justifications are complete nonsense

    • @ Mayhem "The Temple Mount compound, which holds the Dome of the Rock and Al-Aqsa Mosque, is considered the third holiest site in Islam but the holiest site to Jews as the site of the two ancient Jewish temples"

      Let's see if you can spot any important LEGAL and factual differences thru the Ziocaine induced fog.

      A) The Muslim buildings ARE definitely there!

      B) The Jewish temples are NOT there and no one knows for certain they ever were.

      C) The Muslim buildings and the site are in Arab (Palestinian) territory. (UNSC res 476 - try reading it)

      D) Where the Jewish temples are alleged to have existed is in Arab (Palestinian) territory. NOT Israel!

      "By law, under arrangements Israel instituted after capturing the area in 1967, Jews are not allowed to pray at the site"

      Normal! A) Enemy states usually do not allow the nationals of their enemies entry and they often intern or evict their own citizens who're of their enemy's heritage on the basis that they may form a fifth column. Thye also forbid their own citizens from entering the territory of an enemy entity.

      B) It is illegal for Israelis as civilian citizens of the Occupying Power to be in occupied territories. It's for their own safety. That's what the GC's are for! Not only to protect the occupied, but also to protect the citizens of the Occupying Power from the certain violent consequences of occupying another people.

      Say ... Maybe you can help me by answering a simple question. What kind of nut case, evil, f^%$witted Government purposefully assists its civilians to break a law that was adopted specifically to protect ALL civilians? Furthermore what kind of evil, f^%$witted Government illegally sells land in non=state territory to its illegally settling citizens?

      "Israel has done an enormous amount to appease Muslims who go into apoplexy whenever Jews start asking for their democratic religious rights."

      My what a cute piece of nonsense. What on earth are ISRAELI Jews democratic religious rights in non-Israeli territory?

      When Israelis make illegal demands and illegally enter non-Israeli territory the people in the Arab territory have a legal right to go into apoplexy, especially as Israel has had hundreds of UNSC resolutions giving it the opportunity to adhere to the binding Laws those resolutions reaffirm and emphasize under which it is required to KEEP ISRAELIS OUT of all non-Israeli territory held under Israeli military occupation.

    • @ Mayhem /// Jerusalem is a holy city and an arab city, in palestine. it was built by arabs, muslim arabs, christian arabs and jewish arabs. it is in the middle east, not europe///

      the way she speaks she could be representing ISIS"

      Care to explain, preferably with some form of logic, how from her dialogue you reached your amazingly stupid conclusion? From what she has said, your accusation is completely nonsensical.

      "Hypocritically she is not exhorting Turkey to give Smyrna back to the Greeks"

      Neither were you til now it seems and it's not the topic. Never the less, let's say she did mention it and furthermore let's say Turkey did give Smyrna back to the Greeks ... would Israel then suddenly begin to adhere to the law, withdraw from all non-Israeli territories, take its stupid illegal settlers? Is that what you're trying to say?

      " and saying nothing about muslim arabs, muslim turks, muslim africans who are taking over Europe in their mushrooming anti-Western enclaves"

      Again off topic, but if she did say something about them, would Israel then suddenly begin to adhere to the law, withdraw from all non-Israeli territories, take its stupid illegal settlers? If that's what you mean, you're on a roll!!

      "Jerusalem must not be a divided city"

      It has been since the Provisional Israeli Government proclaimed Jerusalem Declared Israel-Occupied City- by Israeli Government Proclamation 12 Aug 1948

      "Under Arab domination the different religions who live there have never been free to practice their religions as they are today"

      You come here and blatantly LIE? Why? Are you trying to prove you're a moron?

      "And by the way there are Arab Jews in this world but no Jewish Arabs"

      Jewish Arabs will be disappointed..

    • @ HarryLaw "What is Abbas waiting for?"

      It is an incredibly long and drawn out process. Like any court case, get it wrong by one word, spelling error, error in punctuation or present at the wrong time with unfavorable justices serving and it will be set back.

      On matters like this tho, it will not be set back by days or weeks or months or years, but decades. Remember, the Zionists and their legal teams have had over a century of practice at keeping the legal ball in the air and while the legal ball is still in the air, the Jewish state will continue to illegally settle, illegally acquire more territory, demand more and more and more.

    • @ ivri "Let`s be honest about it (even if not politically correct) – there is indeed a deep desire and a concrete plan to make Jerusalem the capital of the (only) Jewish State."

      LOL. OK. Let's be honest.
      The Jewish state is Israel.
      Israel's sovereignty doesn't extend to Jerusalem.
      Israel has never been recognized in non-Israeli territory held under occupation.
      Israel has only ever been recognized as the Israeli Government asked for Israel to be recognized "as an independent republic within frontiers approved by the General Assembly of the United Nations in its Resolution of November 29, 1947 ".
      It is illegal for Israelis to settle in non-Israeli territory held under occupation.
      That's honest!

      "This is an integral part of the normalization of the Jewish people, which like all other nations, after millennia of being in exile and subject to horrendous experiences, now have a state of its own and a capital – the choice of which, given Judaism and Jewish history, cannot be but Jerusalem."

      It ISN'T normal for people to illegally settle in territories the Israeli Government itself said were OUTSIDE the state.
      Jerusalem ISN'T in Israeli territory .
      Go bitch to the Zionist Federation who demanded a separate state, prior to which Jews had the right to immigrate, gain citizenship, buy land and settle anywhere in the Jewish People's Historic Homeland.

      " There is no need to be ashamed about it or deny it"

      Except for the FACT that it is NOT Israeli territory, therefore ILLEGAL for Israelis, (Jewish or not) to settle in territories Israel holds under military occupation.

      A) There IS a need to be ashamed of Israel's illegal activities and the slaughter of non-Jewish innocents in support of achieving the illegal aims of the Zionist Federation and;
      B) Your whole argument is denial

    • @ Mikhael

      "Yes, it’s true that the UN did nothing during the 19-year period of Jordanian rule in East Jerusalem from 1949-1967 to ensure that it remain open to all, and consequently, Jews were completely barred from praying at the Western Wall and other shrines in Jerusalem "

      ISRAELI LAW of 1948 (still current) prohibited Israeli citizens and residents from entering the territory of hostile entities.

      It's NORMAL for countries at war to ban the citizens of enemy states and to ban or intern possibly 5th columnists from amongst their own citizens and to freeze their assets. It's also normal to lift those bans and allow their return after hostilities.

      The West Bank as it was officially renamed was under the legal Jordanian sovereignty until it was handed over to the PLO on the signing of the Peace Treaty. The West Bank was until that time part of a UN Member state and High Contracting Power. There was no UNSC condemnation of the annexation of the territory to Jordan as it was requested (bilateral)

      The West Bank as it is now known, was legally annexed at the request of the Palestinians Jordan’s annexation was as a trustee only (Session: 12-II Date: May 1950).

      "for the first time since the Crusader period, were forbidden to visit the Jewish cemetery on Mt. of Olives..

      Go bitch to the Zionist federation you stupid person, they're the idiots who wanted separate Jewish State. In Herzl's lifetime, he could have immigrated to Palestine, bought land, attained citizenship, settled anywhere in the Jewish People's Historic homeland. He didn't bother. Nor did his family. A missed opportunity!

      In the period of the Mandate for Palestine (Article 7) Jews could immigrate to Palestine, buy land, attain citizenship, settle anywhere in the Jewish People's Historic homeland. The Zionist demanding a separate state destroyed that opportunity too!

      " During the Jordanian period, a small number of Israeli Muslims and Christians were permitted to traverse into the Old City once a year for religious festivals, but Israeli Jews were banned"

      Source please.....thx

      Meanwhile it's NORMAL. Israel was at war with Jordan! The US , UK, Australia banned and interned people of German and Japanese descent during WW2

      "the articles of the Armistice Agreement guaranteeing the functioning of these institutions as an Israeli enclave in Jordanian territory was never enforced. "

      The actual text of the Armistice Agreements contradicts your ziopoop pal.

      Article 5

      3. The basic purpose of the Armistice Demarcation Line is to delineate the line beyond which the armed forces of the respective Parties shall not move except as provided in Article III of this Agreement.

      4. Rules and regulations of the armed forces of the Parties, which prohibit civilians from crossing the fighting lines or entering the area between the lines, link to mfa.gov.il

      ". So yeah, the UN really dropped the ball and can’t be trusted."

      Your bullsh*t doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

  • After deadly attack Netanyahu vows ‘iron fist’ as clashes and closures rock Jerusalem
  • New Amnesty International report accuses Israel of committing war crimes in Gaza
    • @mayhem and the Israeli foreign ministry's blatant and easily disproven lies about the Amnesty report are a fine examples of why the Zionist regime should be wiped from the planet.

      They are evil.

    • @ Mayhem "Amnesty International’s sham report accuses Israel of wrongdoing while producing no concrete evidence."

      Uh huh... (kind of like Israel assassinates 'suspects' without trial)

      "The report ignores documented war crimes perpetrated by Hamas...."

      Ahem, 'scuse me folks....YOU'RE A LYING F^&*ing SCUMBUCKET BUSTER!

      At the same time, Hamas and other Palestinian armed groups fired thousands of indiscriminate rockets and mortar rounds into civilian areas of Israel, killing six civilians, including one child.

      Dozens of other Israelis, including at least six children, were directly injured by rockets or shrapnel. A total of 66 soldiers were killed in the fighting.
      Amnesty International has documented and is continuing to document serious violations of international humanitarian law, including unlawful killings and injuries to civilians and destruction of civilian property, both by Israel and by Hamas and Palestinian armed groups. link to amnesty.org

      " .. nor does it mention tunnels built by Hamas to infiltrate Israel and perpetrate terror attacks."

      No tunnels came out anywhere near civilians. They DID come out near IDF stations. No terrorist attacks were carried out from the tunnels

      Meanwhile in Israel investigations are currently underway by several bodies, inside and outside the IDF.."

      Uh huh. In Gaza? Interviewing victims? How is Israel cross checking? By asking and answering its own questions I guess. AMAZING!!

      "In comparison to Israel’s probing procedures, Amnesty’s report was written by local “field workers” with no independent verification of their claims"

      The people of Gaza can't be trusted to tell what happened to them? But LYING F^&*ing SCUMBUCKETS can be trusted.

      “Hamas is not mentioned... the statement said

      Uh oh. 'scuse me again folks ... LIKE YOU, THEY'RE LYING F^&*ing SCUMBUCKETS!

    • @ DoubleStandard
      No point for Israel to cooperate. The report is written before any investigation is actually done. No one really gives a s*** what organizations like HRW and Amnesty say — nothing but mouthpieces of terrorists.

      LOL Of course, of curse ..... oooops .... typo! LOL

      Shall I start quoting AI on terrorism? Cute name BTW. Zionutters are so abusi .... ooooops another typo ... amusing.

  • The hidden documents that reveal the true borders of Israel and Palestine (Updated)
    • @ Prof. Francis A. Boyle " Israel did indeed accept the Partition Resolution 181 and its Borders. But the Palestinians never did. In fact the Palestinians rejected the Partition Resolution. So there were no mutually determined borders between Israel and Palestine."

      However the borders of Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Egypt had already been determined and in the acceptance of Israel's proclaimed sovereign extent by the majority of the International Comity of Nations, the borders of Palestine were defined by default of its neighbours' borders, including those of Israel.

      Independence is by its nature unilateral. Mr. Herschel Johnson of the United States speaking on the Palestinian Question on 28 October 1947, stated, “The element of mutuality would not necessarily be a factor, as the document might be signed by one party only.”

    • May 22nd 1948 relates to the earlier sections ...

      The territories which according to the Israeli Govt of 22nd May 1948 were “outside the State of Israel” … “in Palestine”“, were acquired by war by Israel before Israel was accepted into the UN.

      AND

      “areas, outside the territory of the State of Israel, are under the control of the military authorities of the State of Israel, who are strictly adhering to international regulations in this regard

    • Link to the rebuttal of Israel's 31st Aug 1949 claim to non-Israeli territories link to domino.un.org

      Is there ever going to be a limited time edit function on this largely 'non-informative white space' web site?

      Say ... Why bother asking for criticism/ideas if nothing is going to be done?

    • @ pabelmont "If the letter writer spoke for the government of Israel when he named the territory as in UNGA 181..."

      No 'if'. It is indisputable.

      " then the rest of the pre-67 Israeli territory is occupied territory (although not “territory occupied in the 1967 war” a formula often seen which seems to suggest an earlier occupation)."

      There was indeed earlier occupation. The territories which according to the Israeli Govt of 22nd May 1948 were "outside the State of Israel" ... "in Palestine"", were acquired by war by Israel before Israel was accepted into the UN.

      It was not within the remit of the UNSC to mention them because only on being accepted as a Member can states be directly censured/named in UNSC resolutions, except in respect to their being accepted as Members. The UN/UNSC can only tell its members how they may or may not act towards non-members.

      However, all states, including those who're not UN Members are required to adhere to International Law and Customary International Law including the Laws of War.

      We can see in Israel's statement of May 22nd 1948 to the UNSC it was aware of its legal obligations in "areas, outside the territory of the State of Israel, are under the control of the military authorities of the State of Israel, who are strictly adhering to international regulations in this regard

      “international regulations” at the time said;

      Laws and Customs of War on Land (Hague IV); October 18, 1907 Art. 42 SECTION III

      "Territory is considered occupied when it is actually placed under the authority of the hostile army. The occupation extends only to the territory where such authority has been established and can be exercised."

      Again on the 12 Aug 1948 the Provisional Israeli Government proclaimed

      Jerusalem Declared Israel-Occupied City- by Israeli Government Proclamation 12 Aug 1948

      It is again confirmed by the Israeli attempt on the 31st Aug 1949 to claim those territories "outside the State of Israel" ... "in Palestine". The claim was rebuffed referring Israel to the Armistice Agreements.

      Further to which as recently as 2004

      9th July 2004 International Court of Justice the Court refers to the provisions of the Hague Regulation of 1907, which have become part of customary law, as well as the Fourth Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War of 1949, applicable in those Palestinian territories which before the armed conflict of 1967 lay to the east of the 1949 Armistice demarcation line (or “Green Line”) and were occupied by Israel during that conflict

      Occupation can actually be dated from May 22nd 1948.

    • @ 666 "unity amongst jews in the diaspora will enable jews in israel to make the important decisions they need to make."

      Iinteresting theory. Please elucidate.

      Say ... Do you think that if Jews in the diaspora knew Israel has been lying about its borders for the past 66 years they'd come down in favour of Israel's illegal acquisition of other folks territory?

      "welcoming israeli jews into vibrant communities outside israel,a safety net,will release some of the demographic pressure that has built up in israel."

      Uh? I always thought Israel is the safety net.

      "the fact is that population growth is causing serious political problems and can only lead to genocide"

      For a 'fact' it's an interesting theory. Maybe the Israelis illegally in non-Israeli territory should leave.

      Here's a fact: Israel is in breach of the law, refusing to stay in its own territory, has caused serious political, life and death problems and IS leading to genocide judging by the calls of "death to all Arabs"

    • @ David Gerald Fincham

      "I have argued in my article that Palestine should receive additional territory from Israel ... etc ... that this territory should be in the southern Negev"

      A) Why should there be territorial swaps at all when a change of citizenship could be an option that does not require people to sacrifice their home or any entity to have to sacrifice any of its own?

      B) 'Think it through' .. OK ... Why should it be the Palestinians who must uproot themselves, why not the Israelis who're now wrongfully in Palestinian territory and who don't want to become citizens of Palestine? They can go live in the Negev. Again, no territory swap necessary

      Would you agree to uproot your family from where you do have a right to live, to allow someone who didn't have the right to live there ?

      There is no equality or for that matter justice in your suggestion. Nor is there in any Israeli suggestion. Israel only intends to swap Palestinian territory for Palestinian territory so it can keep Palestinian territory.

      "Some commenters here have suggested an alternative approach: the land was stolen from Palestine in 1948; it should be returned to Palestine now"

      As a hard bottom line under the law it is actually what is required. As a just basis for where negotiations ought start, rather than based on the Israeli fantasy that territories acquired by war by Israel, are somehow Israeli.

      It also serves to illustrate that, contrary to the Israeli narrative the Palestinian and Arab offers have been INCREDIBLY generous, even compassionate when you consider that innocent Israeli citizens have been duped by consecutive Israeli Governments. Whereas Israeli offers have been the exact opposite. Greedy, having no legal basis what so ever and in contravention of the basic tenets of Judaism re- stealing, coveting other folks property etc, kind of like the UN Charter :-)

      "Israel would be reduced to the territory it declared in 1948. Israeli residents in the stolen land would be given a choice, stay in your homes and become Palestinian citizens, or move back into Israel, within its declared borders."

      Quite normal expectations. Why should Palestinians have to move to accommodate people who simply have no legal right to be in Palestinian territory?

      "None of the attempts since 1948 to resolve the conflict have given consideration to the idea that Israel should withdraw to the partition plan boundaries. I suggest that is because it is obviously doomed to failure"

      Any suggestion will be doomed for failure if one party refuses to accept it or on acceptance then refuses, demanding more and more. Humanity developed the concept of the Law in order to A) hopefully prevent and/or B) resolve such instances where no resolution can be otherwise reached

      "My proposal has demonstrable benefits for the Palestinians. It is based on the idea of territorial compensation first raised in 1949 by Count Bernadotte, the Arab States and President Truman. I believe it has a chance of success."

      Having to move from where they have a right to be, is not a demonstrable benefit to the Palestinians.

      Having to move from where they have a right to be, into territory they don't want and will have to develop, is most definitely not a demonstrable benefit to the Palestinians.

      Having to move from where they have a right to be into territory they don't want and will have to develop, so that Israelis can stay where they have no right to be, is most definitely not a demonstrable benefit to the Palestinians.

      Why are you not suggesting that Israelis simply move into the Negev if they don't wish to become Palestinian citizens BTW?

    • jon s "The origins and background of Israel’s declaration of independence have been researched extensively, including the various drafts."

      So what? Only the final draft has any legal significance and it enshrines UNGA res 181. As do the Israeli plea for recognition and numerous statements by official Jewish representatives at the UNSC before and after independence and long after rejection of UNGA res 181 by the Arabs.

      Because as Rabbi Silver said at the UNSC Friday, 5 March 1948 "As far as the Jewish people are concerned, they have accepted the decision of the United Nations. We regard it as binding, and we are resolved to move forward in the spirit of that decision. “ (More)

      Likewise Rostow's and other opinionsso often held up by the Hasbarristers as tho they are evidence, when in fact before and/or after the final draft they are actually irrelevant to the legality of the final draft of UNSC res 242 and;

      Contrary to the Hasbara bullshit, the final draft of UNSC res 242 doesn't contain the word 'negotiate' or for that matter 'Palestine'. Why would it? It was a resolution to end hostilities between already defined and already 'recognized' states. (More)

    • @ Denis under the crusaders occupation, Mongols, Ottomans to name a few, was it not called Palestine?

      The point was to emphasize the fact that Jews existed in the region alongside their fellow inhabitants relatively equally.

      Zionism's demand for a separate Jewish state has driven a nasty wedge between Jews and non-Jews in the region and what is very likely the most divisive wedge ever between Jews that we have had to face in our history.

      You do help make a point tho. Palestine has ALWAYS been under some form of occupation in part or completely since at least the Roman era, the latest being by the State of Israel.

      Even between the ending of the British occupation under the LoN Mandate at midnight May 14th 1948 and the Israeli declaration coming into effect at 00:01 May 15th 1948, Jewish forces had control of territories not slated for a Jewish state.

      Contrary to the Hasbara, there has NEVER been an opportunity to declare independent statehood for the Palestinians to miss.

      Whereas the Zionist colonizer's demand for a state has meant missing the opportunity time and time again for Jewish folk and now Israelis to live anywhere in the Jewish People's historic homeland.

    • @ David Gerald Fincham

      "You ask about the situation of the residents in the West Bank. It is a very different case from the land stolen in 1948-49, which is fully integrated into Israel, where Israeli law is applied, where the territory is generally treated as part of Israel, and where Palestine does not claim sovereignty"

      Whoa .... Thieves steal a car, drive it around as though it is their own, making up their own road rules. Whether the victim wants the car years later does not negate the fact that a crime was committed and compensation is due. The perpetrator can be stripped of their freedom, stripped of whatever of the car remains and stripped of any profits made from the disposal of the car or its parts to his pals.

      In this instance we are talking about territorial theft by war and other illegal means maintained by a occupation army. There is no statute of limitations on war crimes.

      "No-one ,outside extreme Zionist circles, says that the West Bank is part of Israel"

      Successive Israeli Govts have been elected by a majority. Successive Israeli Govts elected by a majority have assisted Israelis to illegally settle in the West Bank, territory that is not yet Israeli.

      Successive Israeli Govts have been very quite when it comes to the Israeli plea for recognition, because it is quite simply too incriminating. It is the thread that if tugged at will unravel the whole propaganda garment

      Instead, successive Israeli Governments elected by a majority, have illegally claimed and illegally sold land to illegal settlers it illegally assists to settle in territory that is not yet Israeli while lying to Israeli citizens about their state boundaries

      Successive Israeli Governments elected by a majority, have ignored their own boundaries and hundreds of UNSC resolutions remindingb and giving Israel the opportunity to rectify the issue by adhering to the binding Laws, UN Charter and relevant conventions those resolutions re-affirm and emphasize!

      Successive Israeli governments have been extremists of the worst kind. Pathological liars and thieves, coveting other folks property. Completely out of step with with the most basic of Judaisms tenets, which is rather odd for a so called 'Jewish state'

      "My personal view is that if there are Israeli settlers in the West Bank living at peace with their neighbours, with good legal title to their land, and have been there some years and intend to make it their permanent home, and are willing to become Palestinian citizens, then they have acquired at least a moral right to remain, and it would be of benefit to the State of Palestine if they did so."

      Quite. Are any territorial swaps necessary to bring that scenario to fruition? Israel can simply get the f^&* out of Palestine.

    • @ yonah fredman " jerusalem was not included in the partition plan’s jewish state and it had a population of 100,000 jews at the time. what precisely do you think should have happened to those jews, after the implementation of a trusteeship over jerusalem was nowhere near the table"

      Well, from at least the Roman era, without the help of the Zionist Federation, Jewish folk could and did hold Palestinian citizenship, buy real estate, settle anywhere in the Jewish people's historic homeland, including Jerusalem, as your figure appears to attest. Amongst the local majority of non-Jews, they seem to have survived, had children, homes, businesses ....

      The verifiable documented chronological historical record tells us the sh*te started to hit the fan and discontent spread when the Zionist Federation began making noises about having a Jewish state and began financing Jews who were not from the region with no ties to the land, to colonize Palestine. They even encouraged illegal immigration and armed illegal settlers.

      I can't think of any population who hasn't taken actions against being colonized by foreigners whose sole aim is to create a state in their territory, can you?

      Especially by foreigners who weren't from the region, financed by foreign money from a foreign organization that wasn't from the region, run by people who weren't from the region, inspired by a foreign guy who wasn't from the region.

      During his life time Herzl could have gone to live in Palestine, get legitimate citizenship, buy some land and settle anywhere in the Jewish People's historical homeland. He didn't even bother, nor did his family.

    • @ 666 "do i understand you correctly"

      You can't afford to. Your Hasbara fantasy world would fall to pieces.

      "are you whining that there existed a palestinian state with a palestinian government..."

      What I wrote is factual, there for all to see, supported by official documentation. You're whining and ignoring. In denial. Desperate.

      A) I gave the links to verifiable primary source documents showing there was indeed a state of Palestine administered under the LoN Mandate for Palestine until such time as that state achieved self government, i.e., independence.

      B) You've linked to a wiki article on " the 1948-59 administration in Gaza" (this is the full, non-mobile version)

      C) Wikipedia can and is written by anyone. Wikipedia's editorial policies favour third hand opinion over truth or indisputable primary documents with provenance.

      ".. a leader of that state"

      It was administrated by the British under the LoN Mandate for Palestine.

      "a palestinian monetary system"

      The Palestine Pound link to google.com.au (which was Israel's first currency BTW)

      " legal system "

      Under which Jewish folk could gain Palestinian citizenship link to avalon.law.yale.edu

      " in other words a fully functioning state that was a member of the league of nations..."

      LoN Membership? Irrelevant. Was the US a Member? link to google.com.au It never the less existed as a state.

      BTW Israel was not a state until it's allotted territories, free of the control of any other entity link to pages.citebite.com , were proclaimed and the Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel came into effect

      Until precisely 00:01 May 15th 1948 ME time link to trumanlibrary.org Israel did not exist as a state.
      It did not have an Israeli Government or even an administrative Government.
      It did not have an Israeli monetary system.
      it did not have any elected Israeli leaders.
      It did not have an Israeli legal system.
      It was not a member of the UN.
      There were no Israeli citizens.
      The State of Israel didn't exist.

      Even today Israel has yet to have a legally elected Government, under a constitution, as promised under the Declaration of statehood!

      Say.... did you have a point?

      Meanwhile, according to official LON documents, Palestine did exist. It had citizens some of whom were Jewish and it had an administrative Government, a monetary system and a system of laws. It even had International contracts with other states, all of which are on the official records of those states. link to wp.me

      "did there ever exist a palestinian state before 1948"

      If it didn't exist, what was given provisional recognition?

      "the link above disputes your statement"

      Third hand opinion of Wikipedia is not authoritative. LON documents are!

    • @ jon s
      // “In 1947 the Arabs proposed an alternative to the Partition Plan. It was that Palestine should become an independent democratic bi-national state with equality for all. ”//

      "Who were “the Arabs” who made the proposal? Where?"

      link to mfa.gov.il

      "As far as I know the bi-national option was supported, pre-1947, by Hashomer Hatzair, Brit Shalom and other individuals on the Jewish-Zionist side, but was rejected by the Arab side. Establishment of a bi-national state was certainly not the goal of the Arab side in the 1948 war"

      See link above

      The Governments of the Arab States emphasise, on this occasion, what they have already declared before the London Conference and the United Nations, that the only solution of the Palestine problem is the establishment of a unitary Palestinian State, in accordance with democratic principles, whereby its inhabitants will enjoy complete equality before the law, [and whereby] minorities will be assured of all the guarantees recognised in democratic constitutional countries, and [whereby] the holy places will be preserved and the right of access thereto guaranteed.

    • @ David Gerald Fincham I almost don't believe I'm reading this. But it's there in B/W as though someone has hijacked your name or slipped you a ziocaine mickey

      "The State of Palestine has never claimed sovereignty over the stolen land"

      That's an irrelevant and fetid Hasbara dropping. It is entirely irrelevant to the actual legal status of Israeli sovereignty. If it isn't sovereign to Israel via legal process, it is simply not Israeli and is by default what remained of Palestine and; under the notions of self determination and the "human rights" you mention, the Palestinians should decide what they'd like to do with their territory. They could without Israel occupation, declare independence as one state or divide it into several states or decide to become a protectorate under some benevolent entity

      " It is unlikely to want the return of the stolen land, because it contains around 2 million Jews (my estimate), and an additional 2 million Jewish Palestinians would compromise the nature of Palestine as an Arab and Islamic state"

      A) Well, there'd be a very substantial and justifiable compensation payment due, for which a chunk of unwanted and barely habitable desert ain't gonna make the grade

      B) Not all Israelis would wish to stay.

      C) Palestine has yet to decide by democratic process what sort of Independent state it will be.

      D) Palestine has already signaled, in front of the world at the UN that it is willing to forgo 78% of its rightful territory for peace with Israel. link to pages.citebite.com

      When one realizes Israel DID proclaim borders a number of things become apparent:
      1) the legal baselessness of Israeli claims to any territory beyond its legal boundaries and, contrary to the Hasbara:
      2) the generosity of the Palestinians in their efforts to achieve a peaceful outcome (ibid)

      "The citizens of Israel living within the stolen land are not illegal aliens living in Palestine. "

      More Hasbara droppings. The citizens of Israel living within the stolen land are by definition illegal aliens! Contrary to the popular belief that the notion of "possession is 9/10th's of the law" favours the possessor, it in fact cuts both ways. People are convicted for possessing stolen goods. At times whether they personally stole them or not.

      "They are living in territory which once was part of Palestine, was indeed stolen from Palestine, but has been an integral part of Israel for 66 years"

      It has not been a part of Israel. Stolen goods do not belong to the thief. A car thief might drive a car around for a decade, repaint it, change the engine, change the body, the seats, the wheels, tyres until there's nothing of the original vehicle and still be charged with theft.

      "Human rights trump the rights of states. Those citizens have a right to continue their lives in the security of their homes and to not have their citizenship taken away from them"

      Then they'd best hot foot it back to ISRAEL where they are citizens, because they are not citizens of Palestine. Palestinian human rights in Palestine trump the human rights of illegal Israeli settlers in Palestine

      "When an Israeli politician suggested that some Arab towns in the West Bank should be transferred to Palestinian sovereignty, there was an outcry from the residents that they would be forced to choose between their homes and their citizenship"

      Another Hasbara dropping. They would have been Israelis, the descendants of people whose homeland has always been in territory that became Israeli in 1948, folk who opted to be Israeli citizens, correct? It was a minister from Israel, their own state attempting to cleanse them!! Of course they objected! Who would not object if their own state tried to get rid of them? It's what Nazi Germany did to its Jews FFS!!

      "Imagine what the outcry would be if 2 million Jewish Israelis were forced to accept citizenship in an Arab and Islamic state with Sharia a main source of law, or else lose their homes."

      More Hasbara droppings. They can go live in Israel, that's what it was declared for, so Jewish folk can live under the laws of a Jewish state.

      "Sometimes, when things are stolen, it is not possible to return them even if the thieves are caught: they may be lost, broken, hidden or melted down. "

      More Hasbara poop. See above. It is not a car. The territory is still there. A voluntary transfer of citizenship is not a death sentence. If they opt to repatriate to Israel, compensation is due by the transgressor, the State of Israel.

      All of which brings us to the strangest point. You are outlining and willing to enable the Zionist Plan for a Greater Israel! Ignore the law and create as many illegal facts on the ground as possible making reversal as difficult as possible then wailing about how unfair it would be on innocent Israelis, who happen to be Jewish and who the Zionists hope will outnumber the non-Jewish inhabitants of the territory many of whom will have been driven by force or despair to leave, compromising " the nature of Palestine as an Arab and Islamic state"

    • @ David Gerald Fincham

      "Lebanese, Syrian and Iraqi forces entered north-east Galilee, Israeli territory"

      Once war has been started the Laws of war come into effect. Cross border incursions are allowed and not considered invasion.

      "Syria captured a few square miles of Israel sovereign territory and held it under military occupation until 1967. "

      I am un-aware. On the 22nd May 1948 the Israeli govt claimed control of ALL Israeli territory link to unispal.un.org

      "I believe that the Egyptian column which captured Gaza would have gone on to Jaffa, which was under Israeli attack, and then Tel Aviv, if it could."

      Speculation doesn't count. They stopped at Isdud link to wp.me

    • pabelmont
      " (Of course, Israel later claimed to annex bits of occupied territory such as Golan Heights and East Jerusalem. Annexing would seem to indicate a change of borders. However, for waheter it’s worth, UNSC said all the annexing was null and void.)"

      Israel didn't actually attempt to annex the Golan, it's acquisition by war was however condemned UNSC Res 497

      The unilateral annexation of East Jerusalem was condemned in UNSC res 252 and its eight reminders re-affirming and emphasizing binding International Law, the UN Charter and relevant conventions.

      252 (1968) of 21 May 1968, 267 (1969) of 3 July 1969, 271 (1969) of 15 September 1969, 298 (1971) of 25 September 1971, 446 (1979) of 22 March 1979, 452 (1979) 20 July 1979, 465 (1980) of 1 March 1980, 476 June 30 1980 and 478 August 20 1980

      BTW The Hasbara claim that Chapt VI and UNGA resolutions are not binding is also a nonsense. All law is by its nature binding and the UN Charter is binding in its entirety on all member states. The Laws and UN Charter and Conventions re-affirmed and emphasized in any UN/UNGA/UNSC resolution are binding!

    • Here's an overlay for Google Earth of Israel's proclaimed boundaries as expressed in the Israeli Govt's plea for recognition. The outlines following as closely as I am able to UNGA res 181 .

      link to docs.google.com

      For help adjusting the transparency in Google Earth link to talknic.files.wordpress.com

    • @ michelle "in some places when ‘you’ buy property
      the actual land is not part of the sale, (i learned this while house hunting)
      seems like the Palestines might not need to give up any ownership
      just collect a land rent"

      Land is 'real estate' for which individuals or companies or institutions hold some form of deed. 'real estate' exists in the 'territory' of states. For example Chinese companies can and do own real estate in Australia, they have no territorial or citizenship rights what so ever.

      Territory belongs to all the legitimate citizens of that territory whether they own 'real estate' rent or lease real estate or are homeless and live under a bridge.

      The Palestinians do not have to show deeds to real estate to prove the territory is Palestinian. It is Palestinian by default of what was not proclaimed as or recognized as Israel, what has never been legally annexed to Israel and what was not the territory of the surrounding Arab states.

    • @ David Gerald Fincham
      //“The fact that GoI has “fully integrated” Palestinian land means nothing about who has a moral and legal claim on it.”//

      "Yes it does. The Israeli citizens living in the “fully integrated land” have the same human rights as every one else"

      They can have those rights in the country to which they are citizens. It is NORMAL for people who're not the citizens of a country and who're there without the express permission of that country, to be deported and their assets frozen pending clarification of legalities

      "It is not their fault that the Israeli government took that land from another people 66 years ago. "

      It's not today's German citizens fault that Hitler came to power. Germany has paid and paid and paid and is still paying with TODAY's German taxpayers money.

      Israel TODAY is STILL illegally acquiring Palestinian territory. TODAY's Israeli govt is encouraging illegal settlers, illegally building more in non-Israeli territory. Israelis TODAY elected TODAY's Govt!

      "They cannot legally be driven from their homes"

      Nonsense. Illegal aliens are deported. It's NORMAL.

      " nor can a piece of territory legally be transferred from one sovereignty to another without the agreement of a majority of its residents. "

      To be precise , without the agreement of a majority of its legitimate citizens. Sans illegal settlers!

      "That is why I say Palestine should be given territory (empty as far as possible) in the Negev as compensation for the territory which was stolen from it in 1948-49"

      Why? Give Israelis illegally in Palestinian territory a choice, become Palestinian citizens or go live in Israel. There is no need for ANY land/territorial swaps.

    • @ 666 "anddddddd the “secret documents” are available to you courtesy of “talknic”"

      Courtesy of the Truman Library, the UN, even the Knesset actually. Are the documents incorrect? Don't actually exist? I'll await your honest reply........... Thx

      "but you only talk about israel"

      Correct. Only Israel proclaimed its borders. Only Israel has been lying about its borders, deceiving Israelis for generations, illegally selling them non-Israeli territory

      Go whine to the Zionist Federation, Jewish Agency and their propagandists who try to keep the truth from being known link to en.wikipedia.org

      "so what were the arab declarations at the time for a state "

      For the same reason Israel wasn't declared an independent state while the British occupied Palestine under the LoN Mandate for Palestine, the Arab State could not have been declared independent while Jewish forces occupied territory slated for the Arab State.

      By 00:01 May 15th 1948 (ME time) Jewish forces under Plan Dalet, were occupying non-Israeli territory. They've never left BTW. So although Palestine can and has declared a state and that state has been recognized by the majority of the Comity of Nations and by certain UN bodies, it is still impossible for Palestine to declare Independent Statehood because it is not independent of Israeli occupation.

      Never the less the Arab statements were the same as they were in 1922. Very reasonable, within the Law and reflective of the League of Nations Covenant. A democratic unity state with equal rights and freedom of religion.

      "we know that the mandate had ended but surely arab leaders must have wanted their own state ?"

      Uh? They had their own state, Palestine. The British occupied it as trustees under the LoN Mandate for Palestine.

      The state existed, only recognition was provisional on that state gaining independence. link to avalon.law.yale.edu

      It was a state in which Jewish folk could immigrate, achieve Palestinian citizenship, buy land and settle anywhere in the Jewish People's historic homeland. link to avalon.law.yale.edu

      Their state, Palestine, was partitioned without their being asked.

      "did all these declarations actually exist in a vacumn"

      Certainly not. They actually exist in the official records of the US, the UN/UNSC, British Hansard and the Knesset etc. Quite easy to find if you know they exist. But the Israeli Govt and education system won't tell you they do.

      I suggest you take your pathetic whining to the Jewish Agency, Zionist Federation/Movement and Israeli Govt. They're the folk who've been duping Jewish folk with their lies!

    • The plea for recognition is arguably the second most important legal document in the history of the State of Israel. One would think a state would be proud of its proclamations. Seems it's simply too incriminating! It undermines the Israeli narrative, revealing a 66 year litany of lies!

      BTW it would seem a similar letter was sent to other world leaders, not just the US.

      Russia 17 May 1948

      Letter from Mr. Molotov stated: “Confirming receipt of your telegram of May 16, in which you inform the Government of the USSR of the proclamation, on the basis of the resolution of the United Nations Assembly of November 29, 1947, of the creation in Palestine of the independent State of Israel and make re-quest for the recognition of the State of Israel and its provisional government by the USSR. I inform yon in this letter that the Govern-ment of the USSR has decided to recognize officially the Stale of Israel and its Provisional Government.”

      Australia 28 January 1949 “… on the basis of the resolution of the United Nations Assembly of November 29, 1947…” ( the relevant passage is missing from the text on the left of the Trove page. I suspect some under handed editing has taken place . . can't prove it tho :-)

      New Zealand 29 January 1949 “It is the understanding of the New Zealand Government that the settlement of boundaries and other outstanding questions will be effected in accordance with the resolution of the General Assembly of the United Nations of 11 December 1948.”

      <a href="link to hansard.millbanksystems.com; British 27 April 1950 " His Majesty’s Government are unable to recognise the sovereignty of Israel over that part of Jerusalem which she occupies, though, pending a final determination of the status of the area, they recognise that Israel exercises de facto authority in it. Secondly, that His Majesty’s Government cannot regard the present boundaries between Israel, and Egypt, Jordan, Syria and the Lebanon as constituting the definitive frontiers of Israel, as these boundaries were laid down in the Armistice Agreements concluded severally between Israel and each of these States, and are subject to any modifications which may be agreed upon under the terms of those Agreements, or of any final settlements which may replace them.”

      On the 31st Aug 1949 Israel attempted to claim non-Israeli territories the Israeli Govt had earlier stated (May 22nd 1948) were "outside the State of Israel" ... "in Palestine".

      If as Israel's propagandists claim, Israel did not proclaim its boundaries, how could anyone say with any certainty that Israel was attacked? Fact is, without defined boundaries they could not have, no-one would know where Israeli territory began or ended and;

      when we look at Israel's proclaimed boundaries in its plea for recognition, we see that no one did invade Israel. There are no UNSC resolutions condemning the Arab States for their declared invasion of "Palestine". Nor are there any UNSC resolutions demanding any entity withdraw from any Israeli territory.

      Jerks who point out the discussions about not mentioning the boundaries are laughable. Like, really really stupid. A) They were not mentioned in an attempt to deceive! B) Not mentioning Israel's boundaries in the Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel did not mean boundaries did not exist. It only meant they were not mentioned!

      There is absolutely no doubt that Israel proclaimed its borders to the world and was recognized by them! By default what remained of Palestine, was NOT Israeli and;
      as corpus separatum was never actually instituted, Jerusalem was never separated from what remained of Palestine. Resolution 476 "1. Reaffirms the overriding necessity to end the prolonged occupation of Arab territories occupied by Israel since 1967, including Jerusalem;"

      Now examine the US position. May 15th 1948, at 00:12 the US recognized Israel as Israel asked to be recognized! No more, no less and recognition is irrevocable! . The US has never recognized any further territories as Israeli. In fact it would be illegal to recognize as Israeli any territories acquired by war by Israel.

      UN Member states even those on the permanent Security Council, cannot vote against Chapt VI resolutions re-affirming and emphasizing International Law and the UN Charter, because the Law and UN Charter are binding!

      All the US can do is stall by veto in the UNSC. Instead of attempting to rectify matters while the veto holds, Israel takes it as a sign that the frog can stay in the pot

  • Israel lobby stakes claim for Jerusalem at Supreme Court, but Kagan isn't buying
    • @ Mooser "...but, but, etc"

      that's not how to spell butt...

      But, but,but, black is white, war is peace, after is before! It's land Israel will have after negotiations to have it already.

      "unethical"? C'mon, the "Jews" would never ..... ;-)

    • @ adele

      "... the West Bank and the Gaza Strip are territories whose final
      status must be determined by negotiations."

      In the opinion of the US. However, the Palestinians are not legally bound to US opinion.

      Palestinians are actually under no legal obligation to negotiate and they are under no legal obligation to forgo any of their legal rights if they do negotiate.

      Meanwhile, Israel IS obliged to adhere to International Law, UN Charter and relative conventions under which it should withdraw from all non-Israeli territories.

    • Mooser
      "You need to double your standards, or maybe even triple them."

      And raise those triple standards high high high !!!

    • By adopting the legal custom of having an agreement or treaty with the citizens of the territory to be annexed, or their representatives (Texas, Alaska, Hawaii et al), the US was instrumental in the legal custom eventually passing into Customary International Law, codified in Article 11 of the Montevideo Convention on the Rights and Duties of States 1933, later adopted into the UN Charter.

      Consequently we see the phrase "It is inadmissible to acquire territory by war (or force)" in so many UN/UNSC resolutions regarding the Question of Palestine and requiring Israel to withdraw from all non-Israeli territories, incl the Golan and Jerusalem.

      Were it to recognize any territories acquired by by Israel through any aggressive or defensive war or any type of force or coercion, the US would be in breach of the Montevideo Convention on the Rights and Duties of States 1933 and the UN Charter 1945 ARTICLE 11

      The contracting states definitely establish as the rule of their conduct the precise obligation not to recognize territorial acquisitions or special advantages which have been obtained by force whether this consists in the employment of arms, in threatening diplomatic representations, or in any other effective coercive measure.

      The US recognized Israel as it asked to be recognized, 15th May 1948. The US has never recognized any further territories as Israeli. No further territories have ever been legally annexed to the State of Israel by agreement with the citizens of the territories to be annexed, sans illegal settlers and nationals of the annexing party.

  • As conditions worsen in Gaza, residents ask: ‘Where have all the activists gone?’
    • @ NormanF "I’m amused"

      By your own stupidity ... amazing!

      "Blame the Jews meme is invoked every time something or doesn’t happen – in Gaza"

      Strange, the word "Jews" first appeared in the thread when you typed it, you stupid stupid person

      "No one talks about the “brutal and dehumanizing” Egyptian occupation"

      Egypt is not the Occupying Power. Israel is.
      Egyptian warships do not control ANY Palestinian territorial waters, Israeli warships do. Egyptian military aircraft do not control Palestinian airspace, Israeli military aircraft do.
      Egypt does not have final say over who and when people may use the Rafah crossing. Israel, the Occupying Power does.
      Goods entering Gaza from Egypt do not pass through Rafah. They pass through an Israeli crossing.

      Israel has, as the Occupying Power, the final say what who and when and why anything or anyone officially enters or exits Gaza through ANY crossing.

      "What Egypt is doing now to the Gazans is now far worse than anything Israel has ever done"

      Nonsense. Egypt has never illegally taken any territory belonging to the Palestinians. Israel has and is still taking.
      Egypt has never illegally settled any of its citizens in any Palestinian territory. Israel has and is still doing it.
      Egypt has never attacked Palestine. Israel has and is still doing it.
      Egypt has never prevented Israel from delivering aid or goods or prevented Israel from allowing people to enter Gaza. Israel has prevented Egypt from delivering aid and goods and prevented Egypt from allowing people to enter and exit Gaza.

      "But the anti-Israel crowd is silent because of course that can’t be blamed on the Jews"

      Not once but twice you make a complete &*^%ing idiot of yourself with your self perpetuating "Jews" meme.

  • 'Let the police mow the lawn': Israeli right-wing demands stronger crackdown as Netanyahu increases attacks on East Jerusalem
    • "the rest of the West-Bank is actually relatively calm now "

      Ah .... relatively... to what? There have been the usual on going Palestinian deaths, injuries, arrests at the hands of the IDF, the Israeli Govt is illegally building more illegal settlements for more illegal settlers.

      Try here link to mondoweiss.net scroll down

      Got anything factual ivri?

  • The UN can bring peace to Jerusalem by moving its headquarters there
  • Israel's Knesset upholds longest suspension in state's history against Haneen Zoabi
  • 'We are in a violent fight with extreme Islam' -- Feiglin leads rightists to pray at al-Aqsa Mosque
    • Here ... I've re-arranged a few things in the Hasbara> to suit the occasion.

      Zionists wanted Yehuda Glick killed to garner sympathy and publicity

    • "pints" is 'points' and;

      "Hasbara" is drivel and;

      "You’re an idiot Israeli" is still 'You’re an idiot Israeli'

    • They have their stupid Hasabra talking pints honed “I’m a Jew and I’m not allowed to go to the Temple Mount"

      Na. You're an idiot Israeli, illegally in non-Israeli territory. GC IV is there to help prevent you and your pathetic kind from the very likely violent consequences of being a part of the Occupying Power over other folk and their rightfull territory.

      The best thing would be for you and yours to p*ss off back to Israel where you belong.

  • SodaStream says it plans to leave West Bank for the Negev, but boycotters promise to not let up
    • @ jon s "According to the report in the link you provided, they were not fired for complaining, they were fired for stopping production"

      Try again . That was pathetic...

      The article gives both sides of the story pal! Why should we not believe the worker's' representative?

      Are you trying to tell us an Israeli who shouldn't even be in the West Bank, who is employed by an Israeli factory illegally in non-Israeli territory, illegally using non-Israeli resources and discriminating against non-Jewish labour based on religious notions is more likely to tell the truth?

    • @ Mooser " ... the stock-price graph looks a lot better if you read it from right-to-left!"

      ?? It almost finishes where it started.

      Say.... turn it upside down ... then buy buy bye bye

    • Jackdaw "... I believe they were fired because they stopped working in protest of the food."

      OK Let's say they did stop work in protest....

      If there had been improvement after complaining about the food ... there'd've been no need to stop work in protest!

      "A big difference"

      Yes. If there had been improvement after complaining about the food ... there'd've been no need to stop work in protest!

      However from the Haaretz article
      the trade union representing the plant’s Palestinian workers, said that in early July workers on the evening shift complained that the food they received was insufficient.

      “Sixty workers, who are prohibited from bringing food from home because of Jewish dietary laws, found themselves without enough food after the 16-hour fast,” Maan’s Jerusalem coordinator, Erez Wagner, said.

      Wagner said the workers approached management and explained that it would be difficult for them to work through the night without sufficient food, noting that it was dangerous for them to work the big machines when they were both hungry and tired.

      According to Wagner, one executive accused the workers of deliberately provoking confrontation, an accusation the workers denied.

      In the end, the shift manager sent the workers home, saying he was canceling the night shift that day, and promising that the problem would be resolved the next day.

      “The next day, all the night-shift workers received termination notices. They were instructed to return their employee IDs and were treated with hostility; they weren’t allowed to collect their personal belongings,”

      Prohibited from bringing food from home because of Jewish dietary laws = discrimination based on religion.

  • Update: Why did Netanyahu respond to chickenshit with 'grassy knoll' remark?
  • Al Aqsa mosque is closed off for first time in 47 years as tensions flare
    • yonah fredman "East jerusalem, including the old city, including the Jewish Quarter and including the Western Wall, is occupied territory"

      Correct. States do not occupy their own territory ...

      ".... I would wish that the Muslims controlling the site would be more amenable to Jews who wish to pray there"

      Jerusalem is occupied (hostile) territory. Israel's Jews have no right to be there
      A) under 1948 Israeli law still current, forbidding Israeli citizens and residents from entering hostile territory.
      B) under the 1949 Armistice Agreements it is expressly forbidden for the civilian populations to cross Armistice Demarcation lines
      C) GC IV is to protect ALL civilians from the violent consequences of occupying another people and their territory

      From the Palestinian POV it is normal to forbid the entry of foreign nationals who are citizens of ones enemies and it is normal to arrest, gaol or deport them. It is also normal to intern possible 5th columnists and freeze their assets. It is also normal to release them and/or allow their return when hostilities end.

      Answer. End the occupation. Get out of al non-Israeli territories.

      The Arabs long ago (since at least 1922) agreed to freedom of religion.

      Let non- Palestinian Jews apply for a visa to visit and/or pray. Same as any other country with a sacred site, non citizens apply for a visa. Why should Jews have special illegal privileges not afforded anyone else anywhere else?

    • GC IV is to protect ALL civilians, including those of the Occupying Power from the violent ramifications of occupying another people and their rightful territory.

      The Israeli military should have arrested poor Rabbi Yehuda Glick long ago, taken him back to Israel and helped him find treatment for his illness

  • Why the Salaita case matters, outside the United States
    • @ DoubleStandard

      "Suddenly reality comes back…showtime"

      The reality that will eventually come back to bite you and your kind on the rrrrrrs is the fact that with the advent of the internet folk're beginning to wise up and realize the Hasbara narrative is one big stinking heap of red heifer sh*te!

      The State of Israel has had it's military forces in territories "outside the State of Israel" ... "in Palestine" for 66 years, busy building illegal facts on the ground in territory never legally acquired by Israel.

      The reality is, from day one the State of Israel has never been able to afford to adhere to the law without being sent bankrupt paying reparations for the territory it illegally acquired outside of the territory it proclaimed in its plea for recognition and to the people it illegally dispossessed.

      Today the cost of attempting to relocate hundreds of thousands of Israeli citizens back within Israel's actual boundaries, while paying billions upon billions of dollars rightful reparations for the territory it has illegally acquired, for the people it has displaced, the farms, villages homes it has destroyed, is astronomical.

      Slowly but surely folk're waking up to the fact that the Jewish State is in breach of Laws and UN Charter adopted in large part because of the treatment of our Jewish fellows under the &*&(ing Nazis and that the Zionist regime is one big, ugly, deceitful, illegal, insane, scam

      " Not such arrogance though given that I am on the prevailing side"

      When you can't even see the arrogance in bragging about being on the prevailingly illegal side, you really should go see a shrink.

    • @ DoubleStandard

      "You twit. I’m not afraid of litigation. From his perspective I’m saying he should take a financial settlement so he gets something"

      Uh huh. An out of court settlement in his favour. Out of court settlements are usually made because the plaintiff is likely to win.

      " I still feel bad he lost his health insurance and income, even if he is a world class anti semitic pseudo intellectual"

      Evidence of your " anti semitic pseudo intellectual" accusation .... Thx .. I'll wait ......

      "I cogently explained why he won’t win in litigation."

      Self delusion can be fun eh .... you can say anything no matter how non-sensical

    • @ DoubleStandard "Sigh. You guys just don’t get how the world works, do you? "

      Let's see ...

      "He’s going to sue of course, and going to lose"

      Uh huh

      " — best shot is a financial settlement to avoid litigation"

      Oh. Who needs to avoid litigation and why?

      SAY already you ain't makin' much sense!!! A financial settlement would be a win... but what if he doesn't want a financial settlement?

      Let’s just put this to bed"

      Why? Afraid of litigation?

  • Sh*tstirring Jeffrey Goldberg dumps diplomatic sh*tstorm with 'chickensh*t' quote
  • Normalizing occupation, NYT runs whimsical story on time zones
  • How Israel is turning Gaza into a super-max prison
  • Jebreal debunks Netanyahu's 'American values' claim in NYT piece on 'hate policies'
    • @ adel hashemi "It is a fact that most Arabs in Israel would rather live under Israeli sovereignty than under an Arab one"

      Of course. What makes you think anyone would agree to their state wanting to get rid of them?

      "How does that jibe with the “abysmal treatment of its own citizens” claim? "

      Getting rid of your own citizens is not abysmal? WOW!

      "I am an Arab and I know 8 Israeli Arabs in my area in NYC. With the exception of one from the Negev, all are happy to be Israeli citizens. Three of them are on state scholarships doing graduate work at American universities and intend to return to Israel to work there"

      Maybe they like living in their traditional home land even if it is now called Israel.

      BTW you say you're an American, born in Jordan to Palestinian Arab parents. Refugees. Sorry to hear that

      Citizens of Jordan are Jordanian

    • Israel needs

      A) its promised constitution, under which;

      B) a legal government can be elected

  • Israeli committee to consider plans to build first city for Palestinian citizens in country's history
    • Three points:

      1) If the area is indeed Israeli, how are they 'Palestinian' citizens? They're Israeli citizens. If one needs to more specific, they're non-Jewish Israeli citizens.

      2) If the area is indeed Israeli, this announcement shows us apartheid is indeed 'alive and well and living in' Israel. I can think of no other country that builds cities or suburbs specifically for one group of people who are of or who are not of a certain ethnicity or religion

      3) How, when and by what agreement did the area North of and including Acre become Israeli? link to commons.wikimedia.org

      Was it;

      A) allocated for the Jewish state?
      link to unispal.un.org

      B) proclaimed as Israeli in Israel's plea for recognition?
      link to avalon.law.yale.edu

      C) annexed to Israel by any agreement?
      https://www.google.com

      D) ever been recognized as Israeli?
      link to pages.citebite.com

  • Bus ads hitting US aid for Israeli 'war crimes' roll in Portland (after ban in Seattle)
    • Smadar Lavie (all Jewish folk) ought read the Declaration of the Establishment of the Zionist Movement's State of Israel very very carefully.

      Drafted by a tiny self promoted cabal, the majority of whom were not even from the region* it says;
      absolutely nothing about democracy!
      The so called 'equalities', 'freedoms' et al, are those envisaged by the prophets
      It promised a constitution that has never materialized in order to elect a government.
      (Israel has yet to have a legally elected Govt, under a constitution)
      The folk who wrote it would have us believe they didn't know about the cleansing of non-Jews under Plan Dalet?
      The same cabal forbade the return of the Israeli citizens it begged to stay as they were being cleansed

      *
      David Ben-Gurion - Płońsk, Poland
      Rabbi Kalman Kahana - Galicia (Ukraine)
      Aharon Zisling - Minsk, Belarus
      Yitzhak Ben-Zvi - Poltava (Ukraine)
      Saadia Kobashi - Yemen
      Daniel Auster - Knihinin (Ukraine)
      Rachel Cohen - Odesa
      David-Zvi Pinkas - Sopron, Austria/Hungary
      Mordechai Bentov = Grodzisk Mazowiecki, Poland
      Moshe Kol - Pinsk, Belarus
      Eliyahu Berlignee - Russia
      Rabbi Yitzchak Meir Levin - Góra Kalwaria, Russia
      Eliezer Kaplan - Minsk, Russia
      Peretz Bernstein - Meiningen, Germany
      Abraham Katznelson - Bobruisk, Belorussia
      Rabbi Wolf Gold - Stettin, Germany (Poland)
      Meir David Loewenstein - Copenhagen, Denmark
      Pinchas Rosen - Berlin, Germany
      Meir Grabovsky - Rîbniţa, Russia
      David Remez - Kopys, Belorussia
      Yitzhak Gruenbaum - Warsaw, Poland
      Zvi Luria (Lurie) - Lodz, Poland
      Berl Repetur - Ruzhyn, Ukraine
      Dr. Abraham Granovsky - Făleşti, Russia
      Golda Myerson - Kiev, Ukraine
      Mordekhai Shattner - Chernovitz ? ( Czernowitz ?), Ukraine ?
      Nachum Nir - Warsaw, Poland
      Ben-Zion Sternberg - Czernowitz, Austria/Hungary
      Eliyahu Dobkin - Babruysk, Russia
      Zvi Segal - Lithuania
      Bechor-Shalom Sheetrit - Tiberias, Ottoman Empire
      Meir Wilner-Kovner - Vilnius, Lithuania
      Rabbi Yehuda Leib Hacohen Fishman - Mărculești, Russia
      Haim-Moshe Shapira - Grodno, Belarus
      Zerach Warhaftig - Volkovysk, Russia
      Moshe Shertok - Kherson, Ukraine
      Herzl Vardi - Kaunas, Russia

  • There are some things about Gaza that I still can't wrap my head around
    • I can't get my head around

      The right to self defense :

      Laws of War, Art. 25. The attack or bombardment, by whatever means, of towns, villages, dwellings, or buildings which are undefended is prohibited. link to avalon.law.yale.edu

      The Palestinians have no defense against Israeli missiles, warplanes, warships, bombs, artillery. They have never shot down an Israeli warplane, helicopter gunship, guided missile or stopped an artillery shell. Nor have they ever sunk an Israeli warship, which are capable of firing artillery anywhere in Gaza and/or Palestinian waters.
      -------

      The right of civilians to flee the violence of war :

      Geneva Convention 1V … Section II .. Occupied territories .. Art49 … The Occupying Power shall not detain protected persons in an area particularly exposed to the dangers of war unless the security of the population or imperative military reasons so demand. link to icrc.org

      Innocent Palestinian civilians couldn't flee the war zone in Gaza. Under the Peace Treaty with Egypt and the 2005 crossings agreement Israel had all means of fleeing the war zone closed. There was no escape even if they were "driven into the sea", Israel controls all Palestinian waters.

      "Hi. wow, I'm glad we got here before you went out. Our house was just bombed we thought maybe we could stay at your place for a while. Will you be long? Where are you going?"

      "Well, we were gonna go to your place! BTW .... RUN!!!!"

      "WHERE????"
      -------

      Israeli warnings to move away from Hamas sites:

      Israel dropped leaflets and sent text messages warning civilians to evacuate northern Gaza link to theguardian.com

      “Hey Mahmoud, what do you think you’re doing, you can’t read that, it’s for civilians only …… pssst ….. what does it say?”

      “It says civilians should flee the war zone to… to… uh… to… oh, some other part of the war zone I guess, because one of the most modern equipped militaries in the world with their tanks, artillery, fighter bombers, missiles, fletchettes, cluster bombs, white phosphorus and billions of loverly dollars of US military aid, is coming to get us”

      “Nice of them to give everyone warning. Very reasonable!”

      “Uh? 'everyone'? They’re only warning civilians! We're Hamas! We're the ones they're after!”

      “Too late now, we’ve read th’ leaflet. Maybe We could pretend we aren't Hamas!”

      “That would be cheating!”

      "You're right. Honesty is the best policy! ”

      "Uh huh!"

      "Say ... Dead people don't have policies!”

      "To be honest, you're right. .... RUN!!!!"

      "WHERE????"
      -------

      Israel refusing RoR for Israelis ...

      "We appeal ... to the Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel ... etc etc ... on the basis of full and equal citizenship ... link to pages.citebite.com

      Are we supposed to believe the people who drafted the Declaration were un-aware that Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel were being driven out under Plan Dalet ?

  • Why we are blocking the boat
  • Israeli president's diagnosis -- 'Israel is a sick society' -- doesn't go viral in the U.S.
    • A link to the Israeli " misfired Hamas rockets" statement ... link to mirror.co.uk

    • Another fine example of Israeli BULLSH*T!

      "Israel also claimed tracking technology proved Monday’s strike on Al-Shifa hospital and Shati refugee camp park which killed 10 people was due to misfired Hamas rockets"

      A) ALL the rockets that hit Al-Shifa hospital and Shati refugee camp misfired and all landed in the same places? WOW that's extremely ACCURATE mis-firing!!! The odds are ......

      B) Palestinian rockets for the most part SIMPLY DO NOT CARRY payloads capable of inflicting the damage evidenced in the aftermath photos of Al-Shifa hospital and Shati refugee camp!

    • @ hophmi
      " It remains a small minority, maybe as small as the group of people (50 out of a town of 25,000), who were watching the IDF bomb Gaza from their lawn chairs in Sderot."

      So how come, being in full view in their lawn chairs cheering the slaughter and well within range even of wonky home made rockets, Hamas didn't target them?

    • @ hophmi

      "The question is whether a Palestinian leader would ever be as reflective as Ruby Rivlin"

      I understand your need, but why should a Palestinian leader be as reflective as Ruby Rivlin?

      The Palestinians have good reason to hate Israel and Israelis with a vengeance. The Jewish state has after all illegally acquired more than half of the Palestinians rightful territories AFTER having been given completely gratis over half the territory of Palestine 1948 for a Jewish State!

      However, in an amazingly generous gesture, the Palestinians have offered to accept only 22%of their rightful territory in order that there be peace with Israel and;
      by such an agreement assist Israel to circumvent the Laws under which Israel would be legally required to withdraw from all non-Israeli territories, take all its citizens and pay rightful compensation for 66 years of blatant aggression in territories "outside the State of Israel" ... "in Palestine"

      "Because Palestinian society is a society that elected to lead it a terrorist organization .."

      You have a link to the Hamas election platform ... I'd like to read it ... thx

    • @ ivri

      "Let`s take a more positive angle here"

      WOW!! this will be interesting! Adhere to International Law perhaps or write and adopt an a constitution as promised 66 years ago and finally elect a Govt legally, under that constitution, then finally, after 66 years of belligerence, withdraw from all non-Israeli territory, taking all Israeli citizens back to Israel, paying rightful reparations, stop educating Israelis with blatant lies and vast omissions of historical fact?

      "Nobody would expect somebody like Assad to state that the Syrian society is sick simply because it`s obvious and also most likely beyond repair. "

      OH?! Right, I forgot. A more positive angle especially where Israel is concerned, is to point elsewhere as though it will change Israel's illegal lust for non-Israeli territory, its biased, racist, bigoted laws and the plethora of lies it tells itself in order to justify the systematic theft of non-Israeli territory in the quest for an ILLEGAL and unjustifiable Greater Israel in contravention of International Law and the UN Charter

      "You can hear such provocatively sounding statements in all Western countries and just ask a Frenchman about his view on the state of France and you get a depressing litany of complaints."

      Uh huh. Care to point to en example from the French PRESIDENT .... thx I'll wait

      "The matter is that when you are almost OK ..."

      The Israeli PRESIDENT seems to be saying Israel is NOT almost or anywhere near almost OK

      "there is a point to make efforts to try to overcome problems"

      by 'point'ing elsewhere .... you're schtick is so cute

      "And I bet that ravishing beauties spend more time on appearance."

      Uh huh. Israel spends an inordinate amount of time, effort and money lobbying for support and attempting to justifying its ILLEGAL acquisition of other folks territory. Is that on a par with a ravishing beauty?

  • Under cover of night, nine Jewish families take over two buildings in Silwan
    • Excuse me, but WTF?!. Has someone been slipping ziocaine in the drinking water?

      Correction: Under cover of night, nine illegal Israeli settler families take over two buildings in Silwan.

      Whether they are "Jewish" or not is entirely irrelevant to the illegality of Israeli citizens, whatever their religion, ethnicity or race, being and/or settling in non-Israeli territory in contravention of International Law and the UN Charter.

  • NYT takes on Europe's recognition of a Palestinian state
    • @ amigo

      ICJ advisory opinion 2004 by Justice Khasawneh.

      link to icj-cij.org

      Quite!

      Idiots for Israel will claim it is a non binding ICJ opinion, oblivious to the fact that in the court's opinion were it asked for a judgement it would most certainly not favour Israel's nonsense legal positions, which are themselves based only on opinions almost entirely given by people AFTER they have left office *

      Furthermore although it is a non-binding ICJ opinion given whilst actually serving on the judiciary, the Laws and UN Charter provisions referenced ARE binding. Similarly the Laws and UN Charter provisions re-affirmed and emphasized in any UN/UNGA/UNSC resolution are in binding.

      * e.g., Schwebel/Lauterpacht's opinion on the 'acquisition' of territory by war (right of conquest), actually talks about 'restoring' the sovereign in an illegal war.

      Israel has A) never lost any territory to B) 'restore' and C) none of Israel's preemptive wars have ever been legalized by declaration** under UNSC Chapt VII. Of course in Schwebel/Lauterpacht's opinion, Syria has the right to restore its sovereignty over the Golan link to wp.me

      ** 6. To legalize a war it must be declared by that branch of the government entrusted by the constitution with this power. link to mojolaw.com

    • “Any nation wishing to declare independence should meet three essential elements: a strong central government, control of defined territory .....”

      Uh huh .... so Israel must have defined its territory May 15th 1948. By default what lay outside that defined territory link to avalon.law.yale.edu was never Israeli.

      Glad Leibovich got that sorted.

    • " shouldn’t we all say that recognizing Israel is premature unless and until it occur as a result of a negotiated agreement with the Palestinians? "

      Why? The countries of the EU and the UK have already recognized Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Egypt and Israel. Whatever remain/ed/s of Palestine after the proclaimed independence and recognition of Israel, is by default A) NOT Israeli, B) the remains of Palestine, be it a state, sovereignty, non-state entity or whatever the Palestinians care to make it.

      That the Palestinians are now willing to forgo 78% of their rightful territory, is incredibly generous....

      Say .... what is Israel offered the Palestinians towards peace in the past 66 years?

      To swap occupied Palestinian territory for occupied Palestinian territory, so that Israel can legally acquire Palestinian territory it has illegally acquired by force. Which doesn't actually amount to an offer.

      It's a demand. A demand that has no legal basis what so ever.

    • @ walktallhangloose "The Montevideo Convention applies to sovereign states who control (are sovereign over) their territory"

      It doesn't actually refer to 'sovereignty', only to "states".

      ARTICLE 1

      The state as a person of international law should possess the following qualifications: a ) a permanent population; b ) a defined territory; c ) government; and d) capacity to enter into relations with the other states.

      ALSO NOTE:

      ARTICLE 4

      States are juridically equal, enjoy the same rights, and have equal capacity in their exercise. The rights of each one do not depend upon the power which it possesses to assure its exercise, but upon the simple fact of its existence as a person under international law.

      " Unfortunately, Palestine does not control its territory: Israel does."

      The Military Occupation of the territory of a state in part or whole does not negate the state or it's sovereignty over its rightful territory. See Schwebel/Lauterpatch/Herzog link to wp.me A state may 'restore' sovereignty over its territory by war if necessary, especially if UNSC Chapt VI resolutions fail and the restoring state or states lodge a declaration of intent with the UNSC under Chapt VII. The Arab states were the last countries to ever lodge a valid declaration of war with the UNSC, May 15th 1948 on their invasion of "Palestine" link to mfa.gov.il There was no UNSC condemnation of the Arab states declaration or their actions against Jewish/Israeli military forces in non-Israeli territory on May 15th 1948

      A state may not 'acquire' territory by force, ANY force and; it is illegal for states to recognize territory acquired by war!link to pages.citebite.com

      "Palestine ‘a state’ the UN and those states recognizing Palestine seem to have created a new kind of statehood for Palestine...etc "

      Not at all. Put simply, the State of Palestine is not independent of Israeli occupation.

      Under the Laws of War the occupied are dependent on the occupier for protection and shortfalls in necessities brought about by occupation link to avalon.law.yale.edu To occupy another's territory is completely voluntary and the Occupying Power is bound by a "sacred trust" link to pages.citebite.com

  • 'I know how the brainwashing works'
    • @ Bornajoo

      "It’s quite astounding that after nearly 70 years the real truth is still either hidden or misunderstood."

      It's not hidden, it's left out or purposefully distorted, thereby misunderstood.

      " a propaganda machine working overtime to keep the skeletons firmly in the closet"

      Since circa 1897. The Zionist movement is extremely well practiced at putting people and money and twisted words in mouths in the right places at the right time to suit their agenda. All the while keeping the legal football in the air thru negotiation and dispute.

      The Zionist Federation's Colonial Trust was after all a business that profited immensely by loaning early Jewish settlers the money to go colonize Palestine.

    • The unwashed takes on new meaning :-)

      Unwashing is a traumatic experience that brings into question a lot of things in a lot of places people fear to go.

      When one's parents, brothers, sisters, cousins, Rabbi, teachers, political leaders have been brainwashed over generations, who does one turn to, trust, believe, believe in and; turning back once you've accepted the first unwashed truth is a betrayal of one's self. One can see self betrayal in the inability of some folk to look you in the eye.

      Zionistas will never admit anything, complete denial is necessary to keep those loose ends away from prying eyes and tugging fingers. Tug any of the loose ends and it will lead to a complete breakdown in the Israeli propaganda narrative. Example ...

      "We appeal - in the very midst of the onslaught launched against us now for months - to the Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel to preserve peace and participate in the upbuilding of the State on the basis of full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its provisional and permanent institutions"

      Are we to believe the people who drafted the Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel were actually un-aware of Plan Dalet under which Arab inhabitants of what would become Israel were being cleansed?

      Let's tug at this same loose thread ... The Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel were being invited to stay in the Declaration. Can't be denied. A few weeks later, if the same number of Arabs who fled the violence of war were to return, they'd be a demographic threat. It simply doesn't add up!

      Same loose thread .. Right of Return .. the Israeli demand for a Peace Treaty with Palestine before allowing any Right of Return at all. Remember, they are the "Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel " who fled. I.e., Israelis!

      Think about it ... What would a peace treaty with Palestine mean for them if they are NOT citizens of Palestine?

      None of it adds up

  • Ethnic Cleansing by All Means: The real Israeli ‘peace’ policy
    • @ shalom "There was a policy in 1948 of expropriation"

      Indeed .. pre-planned by the Jewish Agency/Zionist Movement link to wp.me

      "There was a policy in 1968 of occupation"

      There was also a policy of occupation in 1948 link to wp.me
      1948 .. 1968 .. today ... are a continuation of Jewish Agency/Zionist Movement pre-planning

      "There was a policy from 1948 to the present of developing facts on the ground and thus controlling the ground itself."

      Indeed .. a continuation. The Zionist Movement's aim hasn't changed in over a century

      "But there were also wars in 1948, 56, 67, 73 ... etc .."

      'also'? No buster, they were and still are a part of the plan.

      '48 - Until May 15th 1948 at precisely 00:01 ME time link to trumanlibrary.org a civil war existed in Palestine exacerbated in the weeks preceding the expiry of the Mandate link to pages.citebite.com by Plan Dalet link to jewishvirtuallibrary.org under which territories NOT slated for the Jewish state were cleansed and occupied by Jewish forces who illegally remained there after Israel proclaimed its boundaries in its plea for recognition (ibid).

      At precisely 00:01 May 15th 1948 the civil war immediately became a war waged by the State of Israel on what remained of Palestine in territories "outside the State of Israel" (ibid)

      '56 ... Israel invaded non-Israeli territories.

      '67 ... Israel invaded non-Israeli territories (preceded by Israeli aggression in '66 link to unispal.un.org )

      '73 ... Israel refused to withdraw from the Sinai and Golan. Egypt and Syria both had a right to attempt to restore sovereignty over their territory ( Schwebel/Lauterpacht/Herzog link to wp.me )

      "Hamas which lacked the capacity to kill more Israelis fired some 4500 rockets at the civilian population...etc "

      A) The IDF Memorial site tells us more military have been attacked struck, injured and killed than have Israeli civilians.

      B) The amount of ineffective home made Palestinian rockets mostly fired in vain towards Israel, pales into insignificance compared to the tens of hundreds of thousands of high tech human slaughtering armaments Israel has fired on Palestine.

      " 30 tunnels from Gaza into Israel were discovered that had been built to project terror into the hearts of Israel’s Negev communities with the intent of creating enough fear to make the cost of living their prohibitive for many."

      A) The Armistice Demarcation Line is not the Israeli border. Israel has never legally acquired any territory beyond it's proclaimed boundaries. Unless of course you can show an annexation agreement under which Israel legally annexed further territories to its sovereign extent. Yes?

      B) How many attacks via these tunnels were on Israeli civilians? C) How many of these tunnels ACTUALLY had exits near enough to any Israeli civilians to be effective?

      "The Second Intifada changed the ability of many Israelis to believe that peace was actually possible at least in the short run and required the creation of a Security Wall to separate the populations and eliminate the access of terrorists to Israeli cities"

      Problem with your theory is the fact that thousands of illegal entries into Israel are made each month by Palestinians, UN-DETECTED link to google.com.au ..... go figure

      "The peace initiatives designed at Camp David, Taba and between Olmet/Abbas offered the Palestinian Authority approximately 94% of the West Bank.."

      The West Bank ain't Israel's to offer. Would you accept a thief offering to swap the spare tyre from your car so that he could keep the rest of it?

      "Was it a reasonable beginning? I believe so"

      WOW, what say I come around and steal a few things, then offer you some bargains for me to keep

    • @ ivri "So, to sum up, Israel is about: ethnic cleansing, apartheid, genocide, colonialism, Apartheid, land theft, Lebensraum, war crimes, children-killing, opportunism vis-à-vis the West and what not- In short, the amalgamation of all the conceivable vices in this world"

      If you say so....

      "Poor, Ayatollahs, Hezbollah, Hamas, the Assads, Erdogan, ISIL, (the late) Saddam and Qaddafi and all the rest in the region who have had the misfortune to have an entity like that in their midst."

      If you say so...

      ... weird ...

  • As Kerry scrambles to prevent Palestinian action at UN, Israeli govt makes clear it will never accept Palestinian state
    • @ Jabberwocky "Destroy the wall, but why destroy the ‘settlements’, just remove the settlers and let the Palestinians use the properties. "

      Destroy the separation barrier indeed. As to the settlements, they're cheap, ghastly, Western money making architectural eyesores, imposed most un=naturally on the landscape like huge overbearing fortresses. Would any Palestinian want to live in an ugly reminder of over 100 years of Zionist colonization?

    • @ walktallhangloose "With the Armistice Agreements, who are the parties? Is the State of Israel one of them"

      Yes. The Armistice Agreements:
      1) 23 February 1949 EGYPTIAN-ISRAELI GENERAL ARMISTICE AGREEMENT link to unispal.un.org
      Egypt was a - UN Member/High Contracting Power 24 October 1945

      2) 23 March 1949 LEBANESE-ISRAELI GENERAL ARMISTICE AGREEMENT link to unispal.un.org
      Lebanon - UN Member/High Contracting Power 24 October 1945

      3) 3 April 1949 HASHEMITE JORDAN KINGDOM-ISRAELI GENERAL ARMISTICE AGREEMENT link to unispal.un.org

      Israel - UN Member/High Contracting Power 11 May 1949

      4) 20 July 1949 -ISRAELI -SYRIAN GENERAL ARMISTICE AGREEMENT link to unispal.un.org
      Syria - UN Member/High Contracting Power 24 October 1945

      "As to the ICC the case to be brought should be against the Israel Government Ministers authorizing, and the Military Governors implementing, the settlement program. "

      The ICC prosecutes persons link to icc-cpi.int

      " Of course, Israel will not hand over the suspects, so there will not be a trial, but it would create a lot of political pressure"

      ...and the perpetrators might have to remain in actual Israeli territory link to commons.wikimedia.org for fear of arrest by other countries, including Palestine :-)

    • @ walktallhangloose
      " how to include links in these comments?
      Right click - on the link you want to copy
      Copy - Link Location.
      Paste - into the comment, leaving a space before and after the link
      --------
      "1. I call the Green Line the de facto border ..etc..."

      Understood

      "2. The armistices with Egypt, Lebanon and Jordan were signed before Israel became a Member of the United Nations: until then the UN did not use the word ‘Israel’ in formal documents."

      Partially correct. The UN cannot directly censure non members (neither can a football or knitting club). They can only tell members how they should act towards non-members in keeping with the rules of the 'club'

      "It is not surprising that Lebanon should have followed the UN practice, and rather surprising that Egypt and Jordan should say that their agreement was with the State of Israel, if they did."

      They most certainly did. Non-members could/can/did/do negotiate agreements under the stewardship of the UN, wherein the name of the agreement/s carries the names of the parties. The title is sufficient to identify the parties throughout the agreement.

      Importantly, the agreements could/can/did/do refer to previous documents. The Lebanese-Israeli General Armistice Agreement refers to UNSC res 62 link to avalon.law.yale.edu
      It in turn refers to UNSC res 44 link to avalon.law.yale.edu
      Which in turn refers to UNGA res 181
      under which the Jewish state proclaimed its boundaries link to trumanlibrary.org and was subsequently recognized as requested, as the "State of Israel"

      Lebanese-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, March 23, 1949 link to avalon.law.yale.edu

      Preamble

      The Parties to the present Agreement,

      Responding to the Security Council resolution of 16 November 1948,(2) link to avalon.law.yale.edu calling upon them, as a further provisional measure under Article 40 of the Charter of the United Nations and in order to facilitate the transition from the present truce to permanent peace in Palestine, to negotiate an armistice;

      Having decided to enter into negotiations under United Nations Chairmanship concerning the implementation of the Security Council resolution of 16 November 1948; and having appointed representatives empowered to negotiate and conclude an Armistice Agreement;

      The undersigned representatives, having exchanged their full powers found to be in good and proper form, have agreed upon the following provisions: etc etc

      The Armistices with Egypt, Syria, Jordan are similarly named and have similar references leading back to UNGA res 181.

      Aside from proclaiming its sovereign extent in the May 15th 1948 plea for recognition, the Israeli Government on May 22nd 1948 informed the UNSC that the war was being fought in "territories outside the State of Israel" ... "in Palestine" link to pages.citebite.com as Israel had complete control of all of its territories.

      Added to which on the 31st August 1949 Israel officially tried to claim the "territories outside the State of Israel" ... "in Palestine" it had acquired by war since 00:01 15th May 1948 (ME time) link to unispal.un.org The claim was rebuffed link to domino.un.org

      Subsequently, there are no UNSC resolutions calling for peace "in Israel"

      "3. ...... the sovereign borders of Israel have not changed since 14 May 1948, except perhaps for minor changes as a result of the peace treaties with Egypt and Jordan. "

      There have only been two 'independent sovereign' border changes since Israel's Declaration of the State of Israel took effect at 00:01 May 15th 1948 (ME time) link to trumanlibrary.org

      Both those changes were to the border of Jordan. The West Bank as it is officially called, was legally annexed to Jordan at the request of the Palestinians link to jcpa.org.il

      Jordan’s annexation was as a trustee only at the insistence of the other Arab States (Session: 12-II Date: May 1950). link to jewishvirtuallibrary.org It remained under Jordanian sovereignty until the signing of the Israeli/Jordan Peace Treaty, wherein Jordan relinquished its sovereignty over the West Bank to the PLO and Jordan's border with Israel AND Palestine officially reverted to its 1946 status.

      When Israel took military control of the West Bank in 1967, it was a part of Jordan, a UN Member State and a High Contracting Power. GC IV applies as the UNSC has stated, many many times link to pages.citebite.com

      The sovereign borders of the Arab States & Israel haven't legally changed since their respective independence. Only the Cease Fire and Armistice Demarcation Lines have changed.

      " 7. .... I believe there is a possibility of a solution when sufficient pressure is put on Israel, and when Abbas stops talking tough but acting feeble, or is replaced with someone better."

      As would any Palestinian leader Abbas must tread extremely carefully. Get it wrong in the ICC or UN and it doesn't take a few days or weeks or months or even years to sort out. It takes decades and the Zionist Federation have had more than a hundred years honing the skill of 'keeping the ball in the air'.

      Meanwhile, they will keep on making more and more illegal 'facts on the ground', purposefully creating a situation that makes reversal as difficult and as complex as they possibly can. There is only one Zionist goal, to have control of 'the' ultimate 'relic'.

    • @ walktallhangloose

      "the 1949 armistice line, or Green Line, which is the de facto border of Israel "

      Israel has never legally annexed, nor has any country ever recognized as Israeli, any of the territory it has acquired by war between proclaiming its boundaries in its plea for recognition link to trumanlibrary.org and the signing of the 1949 Armistice Agreements.

      The Armistice Agreement between Israel and Lebanon states the Armistice Demarcation Line as being between Lebanon and "Palestine" BTW link to avalon.law.yale.edu

      (except with Jordan and Egypt where there are defined borders as a result of the peace treaties with those countries)

      Not so. The Egyptian border was defined when Egypt gained statehood and confirmed when it gained independence., BEFORE Israel was proclaimed. Israel was required to withdraw from all territories sovereign to Egypt BEFORE peaceful relations were assumed. Egypt was agreed to withdraw from non-Israeli territory, leaving it under Israeli occupation. MORE @ link to wp.me

      The Jordanian border reverted to its 1946 status, with Jordan relinquishing sovereignty over the West Bank (under Israeli occupation) to the PLO. In 1967 Jordan was a UN Member state and a High Contracting Power, therefore GC IV does apply to the West Bank . All other areas acquired by Israel by war by 1949 were.are covered by the Laws of War link to avalon.law.yale.edu & UN Chapt XI link to pages.citebite.com under which Israel has a sacred trust as administrator and usufructuary.

      " Israel asked for the Green Line to become its border in 1949, but there was no agreement."
      Reference link to pages.citebite.com & rebuttal @ link to domino.un.org

      " Palestine has said that it will now accept the Green Line as a basis for discussion of the West Bank border"

      Reference link to pages.citebite.com ( incredibly generous )

      " What Palestine is waiting for is for Israel to make the first move in this negotiation."

      Any PM who even looks like seriously making peace and thereby ending the Greater Israel project link to wp.me , will get the same treatment as Rabin.

  • How 'Open Hillel' created a new community by challenging the Jewish establishment
  • British Parliament votes overwhelmingly to recognize Palestinian state
    • LOL "“We have a population where there is natural growth,”

      It's 'natural' for foreigners to illegally settle in other folks territory? No state on the state on the planet allows foreigners such a 'natural' right, why should Israelis be allowed what is naturally, normally considered illegal?

      "“Why is it out of the question that in a future Palestinian state, that Jews should not be able to live there side-by-side with their Palestinian neighbours?”

      Maybe because the Jews he refers to are ISRAELIS in non-Israeli territory.

      Daniel Taub is full of ziopoop , like our friends mayhem/hophmi et al

    • @ pabelmont ... unlury figners 4 dicslexyc redears

    • @ Mayhem
      " Members of the UK government, which backs a two-state solution, completely abstained from the vote"

      Abstaining has no effect on the vote. Members of the UK Government who voted obviously also believe in a two state solution.

      BTW, Palestine has already been recognized by the majority of the International Comity of Nations and the UN. There are already two states. One is under occupation. The other is "Israel, the Occupying Power" (UNSC res 476)

      "2. The vote is non-binding and it was initiated by a backbencher from the opposition Labour party."

      Irrelevant who it was initiated by, the majority of voting members voted 'for'

      "3. The UK House of Commons has 650 MPs of which only 286 actually voted in this debate, 364 did not."

      Democracy works on the principle of those who vote, not those who abstain

      "4. A number of high-profile figures were reportedly uncomfortable with the motion and did not show up. "

      So, they didn't vote. Democracy operates on those who DO vote. It could also be that they didn't want to face Zionists screeching Antisemite if they did the decent thing and voted FOR recognition

      "Neither PM David Cameron nor Labour leader Ed Miliband was in the Commons chamber for the start of the debate."

      So what?

      "5. By ignoring this debate and abstaining, rather than voting against it en masse, the UK government effectively handed a symbolic, tokenistic victory to the opposition, and a victory for Palestinian beligerence and terrorism by upping the anti rather striving for a negotiated, secure settlement with Israel."

      Hasbara nonsense.
      A) States are bound by the duties of states per the Montevideo Convention on the Rights and Duties of States, which do not allow for belligerence (see hundreds of UNSC resolutions against Israel) and terrorism. IOW the vote pressures Palestine to adhere to the obligations of statehood

      B) What difference does it make if two states are negotiating?

      C) Negotiations mean only one thing. Palestine relinquishing some of their legal rights and a big chunk of their legal territory, so that Israel can circumvent the law under which it is required to withdraw from ALL non-Israeli territory, take all its Israeli citizens, dismantle its purposeful illegal 'facts on the ground' and pay for 66 years of belligerence. NONE of which Israel has ever been able to afford.

      You're yelling at the wrong people . Go spew your heart out to the Zionist Federation who by demanding a separate state destroyed the opportunity of being able to live anywhere in the Jewish People's historic homeland for Israeli Jews, especially in Palestine. A right all Jews had under Art 7 Lon Mandate for Palestine.

    • @ pabelmont
      "Israel has boundaries only by treaties with Egypt and Jordan"

      Nonsense. The boundaries of Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria were set by 1946 and Israel's boundaries were recognized based on the Israeli Government plea for recognition in which Israel was " proclaimed as an independent republic within frontiers approved by the General Assembly of the United Nations in its Resolution of November 29, 1947," link to trumanlibrary.org

      None of the International Comity of Nations has ever recognized any further territory as Israeli. The boundaries of Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Egypt and Israel have not changed. The 19949 armistice agreements specifically did not change any borders.

      Read the Israeli/Lebanese Armistice agreement

      Article V

      1. The Armistice Demarcation Line shall follow the international boundary between the Lebanon and Palestine.

      No borders have ever been altered by any ceasefire, armistice agreement or peace treaty.

      What was not proclaimed as Israeli on May 15th 1948 and was not a part of Lebanon, Syria, Jordan or Egypt on May 15th 1948, is Palestinian (Arab territory)

  • Israel and the g-word
  • Following shocking sermon, Atlanta JVP calls on area rabbis to challenge racism in Jewish community
    • "The JD Forward reports Lewis was speaking to nearly 2,000 congregants and he received a standing ovation and lengthy applause." = Zionism's well honed and practiced racist, bigoted indoctrination works

  • The Titanic of the occupation -- SodaStream (Update)
    • @ DaBakr "When people start boycotting their iPhones, Intell, HP, and the assorted life saving medical devices and drugs developed in Israel"

      Boycott stuff that ISN'T iIlegally made in the Occupied Territories exploiting non-Israeli resources, labour?

      WOW!!! OK, if you say so .... Sheeeeeesh what a &*&^%^% idiot

    • hophmi ??

      you there?

      folk asked you a reasonable question ....

    • DoubleStandard "The only illusion is that Israel is ever going to lose"

      Soda Stream is Israeli. Soda Stream is already losing buddy.

      " You’ll never find more than anti semitic professors of fake subjects like anthropology willing to play the game of denying jews their right to self determination"

      Conflating Jews with Israelis is cute, transparent and Ziotroll 101. Israelis have NO right to self determination in non-Israeli territories.

    • @ DoubleStandard

      Whatever you need to feed your illusions pal.

  • Where is the antiwar movement?
    • Western style Shock and Awe bombing of people in their own countries far away from the US, UK, Aust: VERY expensive. Pin point accurate weapons explode indiscriminately - disemboweling, beheading, removing single or multiple limbs, stripping skin, cutting veins arteries, burning, disfiguring for life. Slaughtering whole wedding parties. Destroying dwellings, apartments, city blocks, entire villages, infrastructure, sewerage treatment plants, water treatment plants.

      Clean up after: billions of dollars

      Beheading foreigners: VERY cheap. Knife blade accurate. No collateral.

      Clean up after: a bucket or two of water

  • Israeli rightists wave ISIS-style flags in protest of African asylum-seekers
  • Netanyahu's 'poison' -- latest settlement will distance Israel's closest allies, State Dep't warns
    • Netanyahu and co are not being asked the right questions...

      "These are not settlements. These are neighborhoods of Jerusalem."

      When has ANY territory that was not previously proclaimed by the State of Israel in its plea for recognition and subsequently recognized by the International Comity of Nations as asked, ever been legally annexed by agreement and legally recognized as being the territory of the State of Israel?

      "Jerusalem has been the capital of the Jewish people for thousands of years"

      But when was it legally annexed by agreement and Internationally recognized as part of Israel?

      "And I think in any conceivable peace plan including those that were discussed with the Palestinians even the Palestinians understood that… Jewish neighborhooods would remain in Jerusalem"

      By saying "would remain in Jerusalem" do you mean under an agreement that has not yet been reached and, if an agreement has not yet been reached how can you be in your right mind to think Israeli citizens can illegally settle in territory that is not yet Israeli?

      "They’re not in East Jerusalem, they’re in South Jerusalem actually, and they include 700 units for Arab residents of Jerusalem. That’s a little fact that hasn’t gotten any press"

      If they're not yet in territory legally annexed to and Internationally recognized as Israeli under a legal agreement, how can it be within the legal jurisdiction of Israel to make those decisions?

      " Nearly half of Jerusalem’s population live in neighborhoods that abut the ’67 borders. And nobody in his right mind thinks they’re going to be uprooted… [Palestinian swaps idea entails the understanding that] these neighborhoods are going to stay"

      As these swaps have yet to take place under a legal agreement and are not yet legally annexed to and recognized by the International Comity of Nations as Israeli, how can you be in your "right mind" to think you can illegally settle in territory that is not yet your own?

  • 'Ethnic cleansing for a better world' -- Richard Cohen says Palestinians brought the Nakba on themselves
    • @ MHughes976 "I would question the idea that there was a duty, by way of accepting the rule of law or constitutional government, to accept the UN partition plan"

      Indeed, however, the Jewish Agency accepted it and considered it binding, regardless of whether the other party agreed... link to wp.me

      Friday, 5 March 1948 Rabbi Silver stated to the UNSC

      “Nevertheless, reluctantly but loyally, we accepted the decision which appeared fair and reasonable to the United Nations”

      “We feel under the obligation to make our position unmistakably clear. As far as the Jewish people are concerned, they have accepted the decision of the United Nations. We regard it as binding, and we are resolved to move forward in the spirit of that decision. “ link to unispal.un.org

      and

      Friday, 19 March 1948 Rabbi Silver replacing Mr. Shertok at the Council table as representative of the Jewish Agency for Palestine stated

      “We are under the obligation at this time to repeat what we stated at a [262nd meeting] meeting of the Security Council last week: The decision of the General Assembly remains valid for the Jewish people. We have accepted it and we are prepared to abide by it. If the United Nations Palestine Commission is unable to carry out the mandates which were assigned to it by the General Assembly, the Jewish people of Palestine will move forward in the spirit of that resolution and will do everything which is dictated by considerations of national survival and by considerations of justice and historic rights.”

      “The setting up of one State was not made conditional upon the setting up of the other State.” link to unispal.un.org

      and

      Security Council S/PV.271 19 March 1948 The representative of the Jewish Agency, Rabbi Silver:

      The statement that the plan proposed by the General Assembly is an integral plan which cannot succeed unless each of its parts can be carried out, is incorrect. This conception was never part of the plan. Indeed, it is contrary to the statement made by the representative of the United States during the second session of the General Assembly. The setting up of one State was not made conditional upon the setting up of the other State. Mr. Herschel Johnson, representing the United States delegation, speaking in a sub-committee of the Ad Hoc Committee on the Palestinian Question on 28 October 1947, stated, in discussing this very matter in connexion with economic union: “The element of mutuality would not necessarily be a factor, as the document might be signed by one party only.” link to unispal.un.org

      It's also enshrined in the Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel and in the Israeli Government plea for recognition, by which the State of Israel was recognized.

      the state of Israel has been proclaimed as an independent republic within frontiers approved by the General Assembly of the United Nations in its Resolution of November 29, 1947 link to trumanlibrary.org

      and
      Referenced in the Israeli Government statement to the UNSC May 22nd 1948

      Question (a): Over which areas of Palestine do you actually exercise control at present over the entire area of the Jewish State as defined in the Resolution of the General Assembly of the 29th November, 1947?

      "In addition, the Provisional Government exercises control over the city of Jaffa; Northwestern Galilee, including Acre, Zib, Base, and the Jewish settlements up to the Lebanese frontier; a strip of territory alongside the road from Hilda to Jerusalem; almost all of new Jerusalem; and of the Jewish quarter within the walls of the Old City of Jerusalem. The above areas, outside the territory of the State of Israel, are under the control of the military authorities of the State of Israel, who are strictly adhering to international regulations in this regard. The Southern Negev is uninhabited desert over which no effective authority has ever existed." ... " the Government of the State of Israel operates in parts of Palestine outside the territory of the State of Israel" link to unispal.un.org

      " If the UN was not the sovereign it had no right to demand or impose partition and if the plan was merely a suggestion, not a demand, no one had a duty to obey it."

      Indeed, however, the reason there are so many UN/UNSC resolutions against Israel is because the Jewish Agency DID accept it and declared according to it and was recognized as the Israeli Govt requested, by the borders it described. Israel then ignored its legal obligations as a state and UN Member.

      " If the UN was the sovereign it had the normal and basic duty of sovereigns to make arrangements for the whole territory in the interests of all concerned: and these interests are not normally identified by a decision that clearly overrides the will of the majority. If the UN used its constitutional powers so as massively to favour a minority, it abused its powers grievously and once again we find no duty to accept"

      Quite so, however, the Jewish Agency DID accept UNGA res 181 and declared according to the boundaries and was recognized accordingly! No further territories have ever been legally annexed to or recognized as Israeli.

      "If Cohen thinks ... etc etc.."

      Thinking is not a strong Zionist point. It seems to be a prerequisite NOT to think

  • Netanyahu at the United Nations: Hamas, Iran, ISIS and 100 cheering Israelis
  • Netanyahu heads to New York to ‘refute all the lies’ and praise ‘the most moral army in the world’
    • "the full scope of Palestinian leader Amin al-Husaini’s support of Hitler’s ...."

      Nonsense. Al Husseini was removed from office 1937. By the time he met Hitler, he wasn't the leader of the Palestinians.

      Furthermore, it's irrelevant to today's Palestinians who were if they were alive in Al Husseini's day, would have only been babies at the time, never voted for him, didn't fight any war in 1948. ( Logic and simple maths aren't strong points in pro-Israeli propaganda for really stupid people! )

      Al Husseini was not and is not responsible for Israel's continued illegal actions in territories THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT claimed on 22nd May 1948 were "outside the state of Israel" link to unispal.un.org

  • A catalog of impunity
    • @ ivri "In the West-Bank the stones are thrown by teenagers (which are, conveniently, are referred to as children) but stones, or Molotov cocktail, thrown at your car by a gang of 17 years old “children” can be pretty life threatening to the driver and his children(!) in the car."

      A) Israeli law stipulates Israeli Jews are still children until they're 18yrs. Israeli military law says Palestinians become adults at 16 yrs.

      B) Stupid Israelis shouldn't be in the West Bank, especially with their children. It isn't in Israel. What sort of IDIOTS take their children into occupied territories mmmm? What sort of a mindless idiotic government encourages its civilians to illegal settle in territories that do not belong to the state?

      C) You're whinging to the wrong people you bloody fool. Go complain to the Zionist Federation, they're the one's who screwed up the right of Jews to be able to immigrate to and live anywhere in Palestine (Art 7 LoN Mandate for Palestine). By demanding and proclaiming separate Jewish state Jewish Israelis are now prohibited from illegally settling in part of the Jewish People's historical homeland, that are NOT in Israel.

    • @ Ivri does a great job pointing out the incredible disproportion

      "The usual problem: the list is One Sided. Thus, in the same period there were MANY incidents of stones throwing on cars and trains and worse "

      by illegal Israeli settlers too buddy ....

      "(up to opening fire on Jewish neighborhoods in the Jerusalem area"

      Sources please... BTW Any armed Israeli in Jerusalem is a valid target. Jerusalem is Arab territory, not Israeli.

      1. Reaffirms the overriding necessity to end the prolonged occupation of Arab territories occupied by Israel since 1967, including Jerusalem; link to domino.un.org

  • Abbas calls on UN Security Council to end the occupation
    • @ Gene Shae"A lot of words for an old guy. What can’t he just say 2 sates for 2 people? Then he would have Israel on board"

      Bullsh*t your specialty is it? Abbas offered, in front of the world in 2011 and 2012 at the UN, to accept only 22% of the Palestinians rightful territories for peace with Israel. Israel answered by building even more illegal settlements in non-Israeli territory, continuing the illegal occupation and slaughtering more and more Palestinian civilians.

    • @ Gene Shae " the Israelis have laid out their terms. 2 States for 2 Peoples. Why is that so damn difficult?"

      Nope. Quite simple actually ... except for the fact that Israel keeps illegally claiming , illegally annexing, illegally settling and illegally building in the territory of the other state, Palestine.

      But you know this. So, why are you acting stupid and asking stupid questions?

  • Netanyahu erases the boundary between world Jewry and Israel in celebration of 'our country'
    • Netanyahu's meaningless drivel is completely irrelevant to the legal status of Israeli sovereignty and the illegality of that state's actions in territories that 66 years ago the Israeli government claimed were "outside the State of Israel" ... "in Palestine", one of many Israeli Government statements on which the UNSC has based hundreds of resolutions affording Israel the opportunity to adhere to the binding laws, conventions and UN Charter chapters those resolutions re-affirm and emphasize.

  • West Bank settlers exporting dates labelled as 'Made in Palestine'
    • Say .... is that the Palestine settlers claim doesn't exist?

      PS When will someone fix the colour of highlighted text for copy/cut/edit? It's a practical function, yet barely distinguishable!! Changing one number is all that is required.

      It will not interfere with the readability of the copious and un-informative white space

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