Commenter Profile

Total number of comments: 5142 (since 2010-02-26 10:49:56)

An old Jewish guy in Oz. Tired of the fallacies surrounding the I/P issue. We were given the territory for a homeland state, with more than enough room for every Jewish person on the planet. Even today. Since declaration, Israel has illegally acquired more and more territory outside of it's actual proclaimed and recognized Sovereign boundaries and it encourages Israeli civilians to break laws that were adopted in large part because of the treatment of our Jewish fellows under the Nazis. All I ask is that Israel adhere to the law, under which it can easily protect itself, grow and prosper. The Palestinians ask for their legal rights under the Laws all states are obliged to uphold. Israel demands more and more non-Israeli land. I've received too many threats for opposing Israel's policies towards the Palestinians, broken windows, graffiti'd walls, hate mail, I'd prefer to remain anonymous, if that's OK. Who I am is irrelevant. It's the information that counts. :-)

Website: http://talknic.wordpress.com

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  • JVP to Obama: 'Shared values' means opposing Israel's systematic discrimination against non-Jews
    • @ catalan "Yes America and its “hammer” solutions. Cuba, Vietnam, Haiti, Venezuela, Serbia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya"

      Dropping the US UNSC veto vote will suffice

      "Clearly better to be in the country that holds the hammer, than the ones that play anvil, thank you very much"

      If the US lets go the handle on the UNSC veto vote, your head will be on the anvil. What a pleasant thought

  • Besieged in Gaza from birth to death
  • Israel detains Palestinian National Football Team one day after Netanyahu promised FIFA to facilitate travel of Palestinian athletes
  • Obama equates Israel's creation to African-Americans gaining right to vote
    • @ hophmi "They just can’t solve the problem on the backs of the Jewish refugees who established Israel as a refuge from worldwide bigotry"

      Herzl was a refugee? Odd isn't it that the first Zionist Federation members up until 1922 could have immigrated to Palestine en mass, acquired citizenship, bought land and settled anywhere in the Jewish People's Historic Homeland. Herzl didn't bother. Preferring instead to loan money to and arm Jewish settlers

      " especially when there is a worldwide rise in antisemitism"

      It appears to rise whenever Israel slaughters Palestinian civilians en mass. Israel's propagandists favour conflating a hatred of Israel's overtly violent and illegal behaviour with Antisemitism

      " and life for Jews in Europe is becoming increasingly untenable"

      Mass exodus is there? Oh well, plenty of room in Israel (even without all those territories Israel has never legally acquired since proclaiming its borders)

  • Zionism is tired
  • Netanyahu cancels controversial 'apartheid' buses plan, but there have been segregated West Bank buses for years
  • US press blacks out Israeli defense minister's citation of 'Nagasaki and Hiroshima' as model for dealing with Iran
    • HEY! WAKE UP!

      A country that simply ignores hundreds of UNSC resolutions doesn't care what the world thinks of them.

      Nukes are useless unless you're willing to use them and having them is a threat to do just that. Otherwise there's simply no point in having 'em!

      You'd have to be naive to think Israel hasn't waved it's nukes around in discussions with world leaders in order to get them to capitulate.

      Is there really any other reason for them cringing in fear of the Jewish state? It's been the under the table threat world leaders have been afraid of WRT Israel.

  • Understanding the 'S' in BDS: It's time to demand sanctions on Israel
    • You can't sanction Israel's nukes. The threat to use them has been the card up consecutive Israeli Goverments' sleeve for 49 years

  • Congress and state legislatures are on the warpath against BDS
    • @ Hostage May 24, 2015, 1:36 am

      // even if the Arab states had wanted to declare independence on the termination of the Mandate, Jewish/Israeli forces prevented it by already being in control of territories “outside the State of Israel” … “in Palestine” slated for an Arab state on May 15th 1948.//

      "... the Cubans declared a state despite the fact that the United States continued to occupy the country after the war with Spain under the terms of the Platt Amendment and the 1903 Treaty."

      One can be a state. An independent state is another matter surely. Being occupied by the US cannot be independence.

      " When the mandate was terminated the Palestinian Jericho Congress and the Parliament of Transjordan formed a constitutional union/joint kingdom. Half the lawmakers and cabinet members of the new state of “Jordan” were Palestinians. So they were definitely NOT a non-self-governing territory"

      That was A) only a part of the territories that remained of Palestine after Israel proclaimed its frontiers in its plea for recognition. B) Not Palestinian independence.

    • echinococcus "No one is obliged to limit one’s action to the “Occupied Territories”. "

      Indeed. No one can make you buy anything from Israel.

      "My question: is there a particular reason for limiting action to something so obviously dysfunctional and, let’s say it, illogical?"

      The illegal settlements / Occupied Territories actually extend far beyond the West Bank link to wp.me :-)

    • @ Jackdaw Doesn’t ‘pillage’ require that there be an ‘armed conflict between two States’?"

      Israel is un-armed? AMAZING!!

      If there’s no ‘armed conflict’ between the State of Israel and the nascent State of Palestine, then how can a settler, whatever his citizenship, be guilty of pillage?"

      If there's no armed conflict why does Israel insist on a peace agreement? If there's no armed conflict why does Israel keep slaughtering civilians in Gaza?

      Bouvier : War is not only an act, but a state or condition, for nations are said to be at war not only when their armies are engaged, so as to be in the very act of contention, but also when, they have any matter of controversy or dispute subsisting between them which they are determined to decide by the use of force, and have declared publicly, or by their acts, their determination so to decide it

      With Jewish forces already in territory not slated for the Jewish state, Israel proclaimed its boundaries effective at 00:01 May 15th 1948 (ME time) . The Civil War that had been escalated under Plan Dalet in the months preceding the termination of the British administration of Palestine immediately became a war waged by Israel on what ever remained of Palestine.

      There has never been a peace treaty between Palestine and Israel. Israeli forces have never left Palestinian territory and Israel has never legally annexed any of the territories it has illegally acquired by war. link to wp.me

    • @ catalan

      "was just saying that a lot of high end items are not sold in stores but on the Internet or by contacting the producer directly"

      Marvelous. Many of those high end article produced in the Occupied territories?

      "have never observed anyone talk to strangers about politics uninvited"

      Me either. So .... I invite them ... or is there a rule about who does the inviting?

      " Given all the racial and ethnic tensions in a lot of places close by, it’s nice that people here try to keep their ideas to themselves"

      Great way to bring things out into the fresh air and resolve them ... link to albuquerque.suntimes.com

      ."Perhaps you can get enough people to not buy Israeli products, which will undoubtedly make Israel leave the West Bank"

      Drip .. drip .. drip .. an accumulative effect is a wonder to behold. BTW Israel is obliged by law to leave the West Bank.

    • @ catalan

      Say .... you didn't you answer my questions

      "But go ahead, keep pestering people in the grocery stores"

      Strange. No one I've spoken to has ever considered it 'pestering'. In fact they've been appreciative. Perhaps it's because I'm not a bulging eyed spittle flecking propagandist for an illegal Greater Israel trying to ram bullsh*t down their necks

    • @ catalan "Perhaps that’s a cultural thing, but here in the U.S. it is not socially acceptable to bring up Palestine, Kashmir, or Sudan at the grocery store"

      A) Weird. I've been to the US and been thanked because the persons I've spoken to (all of them) had until then been ignorant of the issue. One woman in turn mentioned it to the person on checkout. Drip .. drip ..

      B) How can they legally prevent it?

      "Maybe on the east coast people do such things, it’s been a while"

      Columbus Ohio. Chicago. St Louis. Miami. Never been arrested, never been in a yelling match, never been evicted from a store or hotel or airport.

      " In Albuquerque, commenting on a stranger’s purchases for political reasons will certainly mean you are mentally ill"

      A) Theft is not political. It's simply wrong.

      B) Persons attempting to inform other folk means they are mentally ill? WOW.

      You'd best inform the APA because it isn't listed in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders

      C) It will certainly mean you in Albuquerque are mentally ill. It is listed in DSM-5, under paranoia

      "In general, shopping is mercifully a politics free activity"

      It's not if your shopping supports a political regime illegally exploiting other folks resources.

      "Also, the valuable stuff from Israel tends to be technology and equipment, not stuff people buy at the store."

      A) Everything a manufacturer makes is valuable to the manufacturer. Otherwise WTF would they bother to make it?
      B) Once people are aware, it's extremely hard to become un-aware. link to google.com.au drip .. drip .. drip ...

      "If something is best in class, people will buy it regardless of place of origin. "

      Uh huh. Name somethings, aside from evil, hypocrisy, hatred, racism, bigotry, greed and theft, that are best in their class from the illegal settlements

      "People are very cautious about big purchases and want something that will last. I actually know of several product classes where Israel is a leader."

      Anything from the illegal settlements?

    • They can pass all the laws they want. At a personal level, it is this simple:

      No one can legally stop you or I from NOT buying Israeli goods from the Occupied Territories and;

      No one can legally stop us from striking up a conversation with other folk we see buying Israeli goods from the Occupied Territories about the reasons why they ought not buy those products

    • @ Jackdaw

      "Starting at 15 May morning, during the next 7 days, the settlement and the neighboring Tegart fort were attacked by Iraqi forces, using armored cars and aerial bombing."

      The war was started at precisely 00:01 May 1th 1948 when with Jewish forces already in territories OUTSIDE those slated for the Jewish state, Israel proclaimed its borders.

      Once a war has been started enemies are allowed to attack across borders. There will be casualties. Go whine to the Zionist Federation /Jewish Agency / Israel, other folk in the region didn't invite them to colonize Palestine or start wars!

    • @ Jackdaw

      "The war did not start when the Arab States declared war in May."

      Correct. The war with Israel started at precisely 00:01 May 15th 1948 (ME time), when with Jewish forces already in territories outside those slated for the Jewish state, Israel proclaimed its independence within the borders recommended by UNGA res 181 link to trumanlibrary.org

      "The war started the first week after the passage of the U.N. partition plan"

      That was the civil war. It began on the planned Zionist Federation's colonization of Palestine 1897

      "Simply put, Israel’s War of Independence began in late 1947, albeit at a state of lower-level terrorism and violence"

      Israel declared itself independent at precisely 00:01 May 15th 1948 (ME time). The 1948 war was fought primarily in and over non-Israeli territories already invaded by Jewish forces by 00:01 May 15th 1948 (ME time).

      There are no UNSC resolutions condemning any Arab state for having gone to the defense of non-Israeli territories and attempting to evict Israel forces illegally invading territories the ISRAELI GOVERNMENT itself claimed were "outside the State of Israel" ... "in Palestine"

      No UNSC resolution on the Question of Palestine calls for 'peace in Israel' they DO call for "peace in Palestine". If Israel had been invaded they'd call for peace in Israel, but ....... they don't because Israel was the invader

    • @ JeffB

      // Boycott is a legitimate form of political expression//

      "Boycott is a form of political action not speech"

      One can have a pained expression on one's face. (like a Zionist apologist wearing well deserved egg)

    • @ JeffB Loses his pants

      " ... at the same time that Israel was cleaning out the Palestinians..."

      He could even lose his job for such a loose statement

    • @ Jackdaw "Firstly, the Syrian Army, after invading Israel"

      Date/time and what Israeli territory did they invade prior to Jewish forces being in non-Israeli territory at 00:01 May 15th 1948 (ME time)?

      The war was started by Israeli forces being outside the territory of the State of Israel at 00:01 May 15th 1948 (ibid). Once a war has been started, cross border incursions are quite legitimate and not considered invasion.

      "destroyed two kibbutzim, Masada and Shaar Hagolan, on May 18, inside Israel"

      May 18th is after May 15th, after the Israeli invasion of non-Israeli territories .

      "The Iraqi Army invaded Israeli territory and unsuccessfully assaulted Kibbutz Gesher"

      Date/time ?

      "The Egyptian Army, while halting, or being forced by the IDF to halt, at Isdud (Ashdod) in early June 1948"

      Isdud was not within the territory of the state of Israel
      link to youtu.be

      " had invaded and conquered Israeli territory between the Gaza Strip and Beersheba and between Majdal (Ashkelon) and Beit Jibrin"

      Date/time? Ashkelon was not within the proclaimed boundaries of the State of Israel, nor was Beersheba link to wp.me

      "while the Jordanian Army did not invade Israeli territory, it did much more than take up “defensive positions” in the Old City of Jerusalem. It conquered, and razed, the Jewish Quarter of the Old City and took up positions in Latrun, Lydda, and Ramle, blocking the main Tel Aviv-Jerusalem road and laying siege to the holy city. "

      That's normal kind of stuff in a war!

      "And on May 12- 14, before the pan-Arab invasion began"

      The pan-Arab invasion was of "Palestine" according to the Israeli Govt website link to mfa.gov.il Israel was independent of Palestine at precisely 00:01 May 15th 1948 (ME time) (ibid)

      " the Legion attacked and destroyed the settlements of the Etzion bloc"

      A) Part of the civil war and; B) Not within Israel's "proclaimed" (ibid) boundaries.

      "In short, the neighboring Arab states (save for Lebanon) simultaneously, on May 15, attacked Israel, its settlements, and its territory"

      The dates and locations you have given thus far are for the civil war (before Israel existed), and the 18th May '48 after the war had been started by Israel.

      " One of their aims was to destroy, or at least to mortally wound, Israel, if not to eradicate the Yishuv. The documentary proof is abundant"

      So give the documentary proof. Date/times before Israel's invasion of non-Israeli territories and the areas within Israel's self proclaimed boundaries .... thx

      "That the Arab armies were “ill-prepared” and incompetent does not diminish the fact of their aggression"

      The defense of non-Israeli territories was a response to the aggression Israel displayed by having Jewish forces in non-Israeli territories at 00:01 May 15th 1948 (ME time)

      "And there can be little doubt that had the invading armies, including Jordan’s, encountered no or weak resistance, they would have pushed on to Tel Aviv."

      Anyone can speculate. Lemme try .. If the world wasn't round, it would be a cube. WOW! What fun!

      Say maybe you can explain this ISRAELI GOVERNMENT statement of the 22nd May 1948 to the UNSC about being in complete control of all Israeli territories and of territories "outside the State of Israel" ... "in Palestine"

    • @ shalom "If you look at the BDSmovement.net page you will see the three original goals enunciated by the international movement in 2005 which include #3; “Respecting, protecting and promoting the rights of Palestinian refugees to return to their homes and properties as stipulated in UN resolution 194.” This goal in effect would eliminate the state of Israel and as such is not only anti-Zionist but anti-Semitic. "

      Nonsense. Only non-Jewish Israelis have RoR to Israel.

      The others, the majority, have RoR to territories "outside the State of Israel" ... "in Palestine".

      ---

      @ johneill "It wouldn’t eliminate the state of Israel. It would make it a demographically non-Jewish country."

      Not even that .. see above

    • @ Hostage

      "There is no requirement for Zionists to acquire Israeli ... etc"

      Now that's interesting. American war criminals in Palestine

    • @ Jackdaw

      //“It was written before the war ”//

      "Yes."

      Well there you go. Defeating your own rhetoric

      " A war that claimed 6,600 Jewish lives"

      Lives were lost on both sides of Israel's invasion of non-Israeli territories. You're wailing at the wrong people. Go moan to the Zionist Federation

      "What did the UN do to stop the Arab States from invading?"

      Why should the UN have done anything? They didn't invade Israel. The Israeli Government itself on the 22nd May 1948 told the UNSC the war was in territories "outside the State of Israel" ... "in Palestine"

      No UNSC resolution on the Question of Palestine calls for 'peace in Israel'. They call for "peace in Palestine" for the simple reason the war was in Palestine, not Israel.

      "Sanctions? Boycotts? A UN military action or peacekeeping mission?"

      Why? The Arab states had a right on informing the UNSC of their intentions to attempt to expel Israeli invaders from non-Israeli territories. As far as I know the Arab states Declaration on the Invasion of Palestine to the UNSC was the last ever declaration of war to the UNSC.

      "Nada! They left the Zionists out to dry"

      The Zionists let themselves out to dry by being in breach of International Law as they planned prior to Israel becoming a state. link to mfa.gov.il Israel deserved more than hanging out to dry.

    • @ catalan

      "Between 80 – 85 percent of non-Israeli Jews are Americans. Ergo, any group of Jews – criminals, geniuses, or settlers – would have a lot of Americans. Nothing surprising that a lot of settlers are American born."

      You start with non-Israeli Jews and end talking about settlers. So a lot of settlers aren't even Israeli? AMAZING!

    • DoubleStandard "That resolution did not take into account the war"

      It was written before the war. Very difficult to write something in retrospect when it hasn't happened at the time of writing. Your lack of logic is simply amazing, do you train a lot?

      " You can’t reject the resolution .... "

      Nonsense. UNGA res 181 gave an opportunity for "either" party to declare independence if they desired and if "either" party did declare per UNGA res 181 they could be admitted to the UN but only if they declared according to UNGA res 181 which Israel did , long after the Arabs rejected the resolution.

      The UN could not force either or both parties to accept a resolution under which they could declare independence for the simple reason that the very meaning of independence is to be free of the control of or under an obligation to outside parties, which is why Israel didn't declare statehood before the British administration under the LoN Mandate for Palestine ended.

      The Jewish Agency officially accepted UNGA res 181 as "binding" on itself and claimed, officially, that “The setting up of one State was not made conditional upon the setting up of the other State.” (ibid) On May 15th 1948 Israel's independence took effect in accordance with UNGA res 181

      However, even if the Arab states had wanted to declare independence on the termination of the Mandate, Jewish/Israeli forces prevented it by already being in control of territories "outside the State of Israel" ... "in Palestine" slated for an Arab state on May 15th 1948. Independence was impossible over what remained of Palestine after Israel's frontiers were proclaimed. There was never an opportunity for the Palestinians to miss.

      " .... start a war to prevent its implementation ... "

      With Jewish forces already in territories not slated for the Jewish state at 00:01 May 15th (ME time) the civil war exacerbated by Plan Dalet in the months leading up to the end of the British administration under the Mandate, immediately became a war waged by the State of Israel on what remained of Palestine the moment Israel's boundaries were proclaimed. Israel started the war.

      The Arab states, being UN Members (with the exception of Jordan) and being Regional Powers, had a right to attempt to expel Jewish/Israeli forces from non-Israeli territories. Which is why there are no UNSC resolutions against any Arab State for having started a war or for having invaded Palestine. There was no war in Israel. In fact it wasn't even a 'War of Independence" That was fought with the British prior to independence.

      Israel was already independent as of precisely 00:01 May 15th 1948 (ME time) (ibid). The war was fought in territories according to the Israeli Government at the time "outside the State of Israel" ... "in Palestine" (ibid).

      " and then afterward complain that the rights it promised you were violated"

      The rights it promised were already International Law prior to the adoption of UNGA res 181 .

      "The world doesn’t work that way"

      I hope you'll be representing Israeli war criminals at the ICC

  • 'For Palestinians, history is never behind us': Family memories on Nakba Day
    • @ Jackdaw "The synagogue of Yehuda ha Hasid, ‘Ha Hurva’ was destroyed by the Arabs twice over, and only recently restored to it’s former glory"

      It was being used by Jewish forces and became part of a military target. What structure remained was likely un-safe and subsequently demolished.

    • @ Jackdaw

      "In the 1830’s, Palestine was a battlefield as the Egyptian pasha clashed with the Ottomans. Then the Druzim took up arms and clashed in the Galil (killing Jews in Safed, of course) ..... etc etc etc etc ...... etc etc etc etc ..... All this disorder, death and destruction wrought without the’ toxic fungus’. How can that be?"

      Simple pal. Israel didn't exist until 00:01 May 15th 1948 (ME time).

      Now, all those other crimes are in the past, over, finished. International Law since and the UN Charter attempt to ensure those crimes against humanity do not occur again.

      Israel is in breach of those laws and is TODAY creeping deeper and deeper into Palestine, like a fungus link to google.com.au

    • @ Jackdaw

      " My point is that non-combatants flee war zones. They did in 1948 and they do the same today in Syria and Iraq"

      And they have a right to flee under the Laws of War Geneva Convention IV…Section II..Occupied territories..Art49…The Occupying Power shall not detain protected persons in an area particularly exposed to the dangers of war unless the security of the population or imperative military reasons so demand.

      I do hope you're on the defense team for Israeli War Criminals at the ICC.

      Although Israel leafleted civilians in Gaza, warning them to leave, Israel prevented civilians from fleeing the war zone in Gaza by having Egypt close the crossings between Gaza and Egypt under the 2005 agreements and via the Egypt/Israel peace treaty. Israel is the Occupying Power over Gaza, not Egypt. The Occupying Power decides if borders should be closed to Occupied Territories. The people of Gaza could only flee to somewhere else in the war zone, not even to sea, as Israel controls Palestinian territorial waters.

    • @ echinococcus " You are repeating that no matter what, its very existence legitimates the Zionist entity as a state."

      Not at all. I think the creation of the State of Israel legitimate or not, was a costly and foolish exercise. Had it been attempted today it would likely have failed because there is too much information available via the internet that would show the Zionist Federation scams and lies so easily now proven to be what they were and still are. Not so in 1948.

      Today I can and have at times lobbied almost every politician in Australia with the simple click of a button and lead them to the statements made by the Zionist Federations and Jewish Agency and the Israeli Government. I can show them how Australia recognized Israel, per UNGA res 181, borders and all. I can show the lies and deceit. In 1948 it took phone calls, telegrams, letters and cross referencing took months if not years.

      The LoN Mandate was the closest Palestine ever came to being a democratic state for all it's citizens equally. It was not enough for the Zionist colonizers who wanted control of the ultimate relic

      Today however, Israel legitimate or not, exists and aside from the Palestinians having been ripped off, walked all over, slaughtered and deprived of their rights, there are now millions of Jewish folk who have, for the most part innocently, been caught up in the Zionist created mess. They're deprived of key facts and been fed lifetimes of Hasbara bullsh*t, sold land that doesn't even belong to the state

      They've naively created their lives, homes businesses in non-Israeli territory illegally acquired by war from 1948 and 1967.

      I don't have a home or family or business illegally in territories outside of my state, but I have fought my own way clear of Zionist propaganda and I can attest it was still a traumatic experience to be shown almost everything you believed in was bullsh*t!

      Imagine the quandary innocent Israelis would be in to find they have been ripped off and misled by their own state for 67 years and that their religion and the Holocaust has been used and abused in the Zionist cause, which is nothing more than a self perpetuating money making scam that without the US veto vote in the UNSC would collapse, leaving Israel as a bankrupt failed state owing billions in reparations and billions for the resettlement of unwitting illegal settlers and those who have purposefully broken the law, resulting in millions of dis-illusioned, very angry and scared Israelis.

      If we do not also show compassion for them, we have failed, no matter what the outcome.

      They and the Palestinians deserve justice. The closest we will ever get to justice in this matter will be thru a legal process, that's why I advocate adherence to the law and the law as a basis for resolving otherwise intractable situations and if Israel must exist, it must exist as it was proclaimed, in compliance with its self imposed legal obligations.

      Israel has never been able to afford the compensations it owes for not adhering to the laws it first broke 00:01 May 15th 1948. Today there are so many illegal 'facts on the ground' Israel must strike a plea bargain with the Palestinians, acknowledging the debt and hoping for Palestinian compassion and generosity. It is the only legal way in which Israel can legitimize itself

    • @ echinococcus "It took a couple of readings to see that where we disagree is in your opinion that, no matter the illegitimacy even by colonialist-accepted formal rules, once an outlaw band calls itself a state and gets saluted by fellow bandits it’s entitled to international recognition and protection"

      You have me wrong there. Israel exists whether we like it or not or whether we consider it to be legitimate or not, whether you and I or anyone else agrees. The majority of UN Nations were not by 1948 colonialists or outlaw bands BTW.

      One can only argue against the State of Israel from the moment it came into existence. Israel drew its line in the sand following the boundaries outlined in UNGA res 181, effective 00:01 May 15th 1948 (ME time). There has never been any agreement under which any further territories have since been legally acquired by, ceded to, or annexed to Israel.

      Nothing that happened prior to 00:01 May 15th 1948, the cherry pickings of Twain said, whether or not Jews "made the desert bloom", whether there were massacres or whether Jews owned 'real estate' pre- Israeli statehood, effects the legal status of Israel's self proclaimed and Internationally recognized sovereign extent as of 00:01 May 15th 1948.

      I've tried to narrow down to the least amount of reading as possible the premise of the obligations undertaken in official statements towards and on behalf of the Jewish state by officials representing the Zionist Federation, the Jewish agency and the State of Israel.
      link to wp.me
      and
      link to wp.me

      Statements which in their own words, show consecutive governments and the Hasbara apologists to be either irrelevant nonsense or blatant lies.

      By their own official statements, Israeli sovereignty was limited to the borders described in UNGA res 181. By their own words that Palestine did exist after Israel was proclaimed independent of Palestine and that Israel was operating in and fighting its so called 'war of Independence' in non-Israeli territory. Israel was officially independent 00:01 May 15th 1948 (ME time). the 1948 war between Israel and the other regional powers was fought in and over territories "outside the State of Israel" ... "in Palestine"

      By their own words that Israel is hugely indebted to: A) the International Comity of Nations, the UN and the people of Palestine for there even being a Jewish state and; B) far from Israel making generous concessions, the Palestinians have been incredibly generous in their offers to cede some
      78% of their rightful territories to Israel for peace
      and; that Israel has offered absolutely nothing towards peace. Not one thing, ever.

      What Israel calls 'concessions' are nonsense. Israel has never legally acquired any further territories to those it proclaimed effective 00:01 May 15th 1948 (ME time). The offer to swap non-Israeli territory for non-Israeli territory so Israel can keep non-Israeli territory is NOT a concession. It's arrogant theft, ignoring the official statements of the Israelis, the Jewish Agency, the Zionist Movement and hundreds of UNSC resolutions affording Israel hundreds of opportunities to comply with the binding Laws and UN charter reaffirmed and emphasized in those resolutions. Laws and UN Charter the Israelis agreed, in their own words, to adhere to.

      The offer to accept absolutely minimal RoR to Israel is NOT a concession, it's the right of Israel's non-Jewish Israeli citizens and of Palestinian refugees to return to Palestine is also a right. (Refugees from the 1948 and 1967 wars do not all have a right to return to Israel). Adhering to the law, is not a concession, it's an obligation.

      Their own words and contrary actions to which the Hasbarristers never have any answers.

    • @ chinococcus

      "May I take the liberty to pick a couple nits, talknic, or offer interpretations that are at least equally plausible according to the documentation we all have?

      //A) It was a war between Jewish Palestinians and non-Jewish Palestinians.//

      "Between Zionist colonizers and invaders authorized by the British colonial overlord (or illegally on the land even according to the British colonial overlord) against Palestinians"

      What you will, it was never the less by definition a civil war, i.e., non Jewish Palestinian against Jewish Palestinian until precisely 00:01 May 15th 1948 (ME time), when it became a war by the State of Israel on what remained of Palestine.

      Under the Mandate for Palestine the British were to control the immigration of Jews according in a manner that did not overburden the country or disadvantage the local non-Jewish population. They made this clear in both the White Papers, reiterating the LoN Mandate for Palestine. There was a huge outcry from the Zionists when the British administration curtailed Jewish immigration to comply with their mandate as administrator under the LoN Mandate for Palestine.

      "Palestinian Jews of long date cannot be counted on the aggressor side and, in their majority, opposed the Zionist project so that most of them had already been run out of the country"

      It wouldn't surprise me. Best to supply sources

      "There were no Israeli territories, not at least for anyone not recognizing the unilateral proclamation."

      They were and still are a minority.

      "The GA partition plan was just a failed proposal, accepted by neither the Zionist entity....."

      Nonsense. Friday, 5 March 1948 Rabbi Silver stated to the UNSC

      “We feel under the obligation to make our position unmistakably clear. As far as the Jewish people are concerned, they have accepted the decision of the United Nations. We regard it as binding, and we are resolved to move forward in the spirit of that decision. “

      "The terrorists’ “proclaiming themselves independent of Palestine” had no legitimacy at all behind it"

      The Zionist Movement and the Jewish People's Council declared independence according to UNGA res 181 which did not require both parties to agree. Independence by it's very nature unilateral. "Either" party could declare independence independently of the other and be admitted to the UN if they declared according to UNGA res 181. If they had to agree for independence to take effect, they'd not have been independent. Simple really.

      "So the status of any Zionist terrorists anywhere in Palestine, not only outside that proposed without result for partition but also in that proposed for some hypothetical Jewish fraction, was not that of “foreign forces” but terrorist bands.."

      Then it would have been State terrorism AFTERr Israel was proclaimed.

      "their not being supressed by the outgoing mandate holder Great Britain obliged the other UN members present to try to keep order it in its stead"

      The UK had no mandate after the Mandate for Palestine expired. Of course it was up to the Arab Regional powers to maintain order in non-Israeli territories. That's why there are no UNSC resolutions against any Arab state for attacking Jewish/Israeli forces in what remained of Palestine after Israel proclaimed its independence effective.

      //Israel’s independence came into effect within the “frontiers approved by the General Assembly of the United Nations in its Resolution of November 29, 1947″//

      "Worthless, as that GA resolution not only had no legal teeth, it had not been implemented by any of the parties."

      I gave the Israeli Government's official plea for recognition and how Israel was recognized and admitted to the UN.

      // Is that counting the illegal Jewish immigrants too? //

      "Is immigration approved/authorized by the colonial authority Great Britain as mandate holder legal according to you? As opposed, I mean, to an Ottoman subject. Makes quite a difference"

      There were legal and illegal Jewish immigrants into Palestine during the Mandate. The illegal immigrants did not have approval from the British administration.

      Israel exists, like it or not. In order to exist and become a UN Member state the Jewish Agency agreed to adhere to UNGA res 181 and Israel on admittance to the UN agreed to adhere to International Law as a state and the UN Charter as a UN Member.

      It hasn't.

    • @ Jackdaw "This was a civil war between Jewish Palestinians and Muslim Palestinians. A civil war, until the Arab States invaded"

      A) It was a war between Jewish Palestinians and non-Jewish Palestinians. Arab Christians and even Arab atheists were also dispossessed.

      B) The Israeli Govt web site says they invaded "Palestine"

      C) There were Jewish forces in non-Israeli territories the day Israel's borders were proclaimed. The neighbouring Arab states, as UN Members (except for TransJordan) and regional powers, had right to attempt to expel foreign forces from what remained of Palestine after Israel was proclaimed independent of Palestine.

      D) With Jewish forces already in territories not slated for the Jewish state, at exactly 00:01 May 15th 1948 (ME time) when Israel's independence came into effect within the "frontiers approved by the General Assembly of the United Nations in its Resolution of November 29, 1947", the civil war that had been exacerbated by Plan Dalet in the months leading up to the termination of the British Mandate, became an armed invasion by the state of Israel on what remained of Palestine.

      E) No UNSC resolution on the Question of Palestine calls for peace in Israel, they call for "peace in Palestine". The Israel Government itself on the 22nd May 1948 confirmed the war was fought in territories "outside the State of Israel" ... "in Palestine"

      "One third of all citizens of 1940’s Mandatory Palestine, 600,000 souls, were Jews"

      Is that counting the illegal Jewish immigrants too? BTW how many were Jewish Arabs indigenous to the region?

    • @ Jackdaw does fail 101 again

      " My point is that non-combatants flee war zones. They did in 1948 and they do the same today in Syria and Iraq."

      Indeed and they have a right to return

      "These villagers fled a war zone. They weren’t chased out of their village by Jewish bayonets seeking to depopulate. "

      Fear drives people to flee. Fear of death by a peace loving neighbours' force of arms

      "That did happen in Palestine in 1948. It happened a lot. It didn’t happen here though. These villagers were not ethnically cleansed, anymore than Syrians fleeing their country for safety aren’t ‘ethnically cleansed’."

      Syrians have a right to return and unlike Arabs fleeing because they're non-Jews and not allowed to return because they're non Jews, Syrians are not fleeing because they're non-Arab and if they're not allowed to return it isn't because they're non-Arabs. Their ethnicity is the same as those they're fleeing.

    • @ Jackdaw "Like I said, they fled a battle zone."

      Best way to prevent yourself being slaughtered when there's war.

      "The village was not ethnically cleansed."

      By their being prevented from returning, it was ethnically cleansed of non-Jews.

      "Why are you people so nasty to me when all I do is speak Truth?"

      Your 'truth' is little more than typical Hasbara style justification.

    • @ Jackdaw

      "How could the Givati brigade ethnically cleanse the village when it was being defended by two companies of the Egyptian Army, and a ‘long battle’ ensued?"

      You win some and you lose some in war. Best not to start them by having forces in other folks' territories on the day you declare your boundaries because those other folks and their friends have a right to attempt to kick foreign invading forces out and they also have the right once war has started to make incursions into the invading enemy's territory.

    • @ Jackdaw

      "Some, not all, Arabs, were ethnically cleansed. "

      Some 20% of non-Jewish Israeli citizens were allowed to stay and of course Jewish Arabs were allowed to stay too. There's something doesn't add up tho. Maybe you can help.

      About 20% of the Israeli population was Arab, right?

      It's odd because by 1950 the population of Israel was about 1,370,000 and there were about 156,000 non-Jewish Arabs in Israel and some 500,000 Arab Jewish refugees from the Arab states.

      That’s about 656,000 Arabs of a population of about 1,370,000. Which is about 47% ....... not including the indigenous Jewish Arabs of Israel BTW

      If we include them, the Arab Israeli population of Israel in 1948 was in excess of 50%. A large number of Israeli Jews today are of Arabic descent. Strands of their DNA is woven deep into our Jewish Israeli fellows. Odd isn't it that lushious Jewish Israeli wenches are chastised for falling in love with lusty Arab studs

      Simple maths revealed the Jewish state was majority Arab WITHOUT the return of the non-Jewish Israelis who fled the war.

      "The majority fled a war zone, but were denied re-entry to the country after hostilities ceased"

      The operative words are "still denied"! WOW Imagine if the non-Jewish Israeli Arabs were allowed to return. Israel would be a Jewish Arab state.

      Say... what's wrong with that?

      "If you lose a war, do you ethnically cleanse 500,000 Arab Jews who were totally uninvolved in the war? Is that what you people learn in schools?"

      I learned to look closely at things. Like the Israel's official plea for recognition and the Arab imbedded in Israel's Jewish population and what happens when countries are at war. Like .....

      It's normal for countries at war to expel or intern people who have ties with their enemy even if they're totally uninvolved in the war.

      Australia, the US expelled and interned their own German and Japanese citizens. It's also normal to release or allow their return and unfreeze their assets.

      However, when a person takes citizenship in a country other than that of return as Jewish refugees to Israel did, they no longer have refugee status. They're under the protection of their new state, their old state has no duty to them.

      It's also normal for countries at war to forbid their citizens entry into hostile territory. Israeli law of 1948 (still in place) prevented Israelis from worshiping in hostile territory under Jordanian annexation. Jordan naturally reciprocated.

      It's normal if you occupy you either legally annex by agreement or withdraw from territory captured for strategic purposes while at war and allow folk to return to their homes. The US and Australia aren't illegally settling Iraq or Afghanistan, claiming it for themselves and they're not preventing refugees from returning to Iraq.

      What did you learn at school, Hasbara?

    • @ Jackdaw "I’m as opposed to a greater Israel as you"

      I'm happy to hear yourstance. As Israel has already illegally acquired non-Israeli territory for the Greater Israel, it should be returned ... right?

      "so maybe it’s time for Hamas to beat it’s swords into plowshares and accept a negotiated two-State solution"

      They publicly announced they would some time ago

  • Putting Israel's cynical humanitarian work in Nepal in the proper context
    • @ JustJessetr "And ducking the issue is the first stratagem of MW"

      Give an instance please

      Israel helps people"

      Except if they're non-Jews in Israel or Palestine or wishing to go to Palestine and help Israel's neighbours overcome 67 years of Israeli transgressions

      "You hate Israel"

      No, most folk here would rather Israel adhered to the laws it agreed to adhere to by becoming a state and being admitted to the UN

      "Therefore you think what Israel does isn’t helpful."

      If you say so. See if you can spot the difference between helping and overtly bragging about helping.

      "Have you asked a Nepalese, or a Haitian, or even a Syrian soldier, if they would to give back the help that Israel offered? Please do me a favor and find such people who were given direct medical aid, videotape your question to them, and then upload their response to MW"

      OK. Will you pay my airfare? BTW do you think selling weapons to the dictator Francois Duvalier and his son Jean-Claude Duvalier was good for Haitians?

      "In the meantime, if you know so much about how people should be helped, close your MacBook, go to Nepal, grab a shovel, and dig a fuckin’ toilet"

      How will I recognize you? You WILL be there of course ... right?

  • Why readers interested in balanced coverage of BDS should avoid the New York Times
    • DaBakr " What the hell would MW do w/o the Times? "

      Move on to the other propaganda rags and people like you until Israel is eventually made to adhere to the law.

    • Page: 51
    • @ DaBakr "its amazing how blinded people become by their own experience with indoctrination into a cause."

      Indeed. There's an easy test. The NY Times, you and other apologists for the Jewish state claim Jerusalem is in Israel.

      Read this one simple, undeniable statement link to trumanlibrary.org --- now honestly answer this very simple question. When and by what means and by agreement with who did Israel legally acquire any further territories?

      "... to their editors it is balanced and to many Zionists it is totally slanted against Israel. There are only 2 explanations for this. 1) everybody but you is nuts. 2) you represent a minority perspective on the subject and find the majority opinion to be of no use to your view."

      Another possible explanation is the NYT, you and your kind are mouthpieces for Israeli propaganda. In which case the editors and you and your kind KNOW it ISN'T balanced and ISN'T slanted against Israel and that you're spouting bullsh*t!

  • Settlers Supporting Settlers: Towards an explanation of the US/Israel relationship
    • @ catalan

      “There is nothing in the middle, no possibility that things could be seen differently from different angles"

      Your angle is illegal under binding International Law and the UN Charter as emphasized and re-affirmed in hundreds of UNSC Chapt VI resolutions affording Israel hundreds of opportunities to comply with the law, all of which have been ignored. In fact no other country in the UN has been afforded so many missed opportunities

      Now our Jewish homeland state is so far indebted to the International Community and Palestine, it cannot afford to adhere to the law and UN charter. It would be sent bankrupt attempting to pay rightful reparations to those it has dispossessed over the years and as it tried to repatriate into Israel proper hundreds of thousands of illegal Israeli settlers who would suddenly wake up to the fact that for 67 years they have been duped by the Israeli Government into believing they had a legal right to settle in non-Israeli territories.

      The resources from Occupied Territories would no longer be available to illegally exploit, investment in illegal settlements and all their infrastructure would no longer be available.

      Therein lies the real problem and the very reason Zionist/Jewish/Israeli lobby groups spend inordinate amounts of time, effort and money maintaining the US UNSC veto vote. It is all that stands between Israel and it becoming a failed state

      " In this discussion, talknic says that the U.S. annexation of Mexico, something that all liberals opposed and generally was supported by the slave owners of the south, is actually perfectly lawful"

      At the time it was quite legal and as the US adopted that legal custom of having an agreement with the legitimate citizens of those territories to acquire territory, (Texas, Hawaii, Alaska, etc) the US was instrumental in that legal custom eventually passing into Customary International Law.

      "In this alternate reality of pseudo logic, a fake referendum in Texas is and a treaty imposed on Mexico are cited as the very example of morality and lawfulness. Leaves one speechless, doesn’t it? "

      A) Neither Texas, Hawaii, Alaska, etc considered their agreements to be fake. Treaties are agreements! B) The record shows I did not use the word or allude to anything being an example of morality. Your need to put words in to the mouths of others is typical of apologists for Israel's illegal behaviour in non-Israeli territories.

      "Anyway, did black people in Texas vote in this referendum? I am sure they couldn’t wait to be slaves"

      They're no longer slaves. The US also abolished slavery and was by that act also instrumental in having slavery prohibited.

      ----

      @ lysias "Actually, a good case can be made that the annexation of Texas was not legal ... etc ... a two-thirds vote in the Senate was not politically possible. So the alternative route of an Act of Congress, requiring only a majority vote in both Houses of Congress, was chosen instead, and that was very doubtfully constitutional at the time"

      That was AFTER the people of Texas agreed to be annexed. Point being the referendums and agreements were exercises in self determination for those peoples, so again the US was instrumental in the legal custom of an agreement with the people's to be annexed with their territory shaping today's conventions on self determination.

      -----

      @catalan

      " .. the “ugly reality” of the Russian empire. Expansion into Central Asia, Poland. Then while the U.S. was manifesting destiny, and Prussia was coveting France, Denmark, and all else, the Russians stole a nice chunk of Eastern Siberia. Indeed the Russians took advantage of the weakening of China to expand there permanently. Then the Soviet Union engaged in its own empire policies .... ?"

      Bravo!! Now about Israel's illegal acquisition of non-Israeli territories TODAY!

    • Mooser May 14, 2015, 10:53 pm "The word is “straits”, Hophmi, like they got in Gilberta"

      You typing with your figners crossed hoping you'd get the spelling right?

    • @ RoHa"are you suggesting that no-one is older than 74, or that those who are didn’t read the news?"

      :-) Thank you for your question. Some folk'll need it explained I guess, maths and logic don't seem to be Hasbara strong points

      In 1941 the life expectancy of a Palestinian Arab was only about 42yrs or so. Odds are there aren't many around now a days and those surviving 74 yrs on would have only been newborn babes in 1941. I very much doubt they had any idea of who al Husseini was.

      In 1937 a Palestinian still alive today would be 78yrs. In 1937when al Husseini was stripped of his station by the British Mandate Administration, they were newborn babes and very likely had no idea of who al Husseini was.

      By 1941 these survivors would have been a 4yr old children and very likely had no idea of who al Husseini was.

      By 1948 they'd have been only 11yrs old and based on those who remained in Israel (about 20%), there's about an 80% chance those children were amongst the "711,000" refugees from Israel- controlled territory who had fled the war zone and didn't take part in the war.

      Their parents were probably about 2yrs old or even babies when al Husseini was appointed by Samuels in 1921. They had no say in al Husseini's appointment by the British Jew Herbert Samuel

      By the time he was stripped of his role as Grand Mufti of Jerusalem in 1937 by the British, the parents were 16-18yrs old no longer represented by Al Husseini.

      They were 20-22yrs when al Husseini, not representing them, met Hitler in 1941.

      The didn't serve under him in the Balkans and; at 27-29yrs in 1948, they were also very likely amongst the 711,000 or so who had fled the war zone and didn't take part in the war.

      Now, they'd be a highly unlikely 94-96yrs of age.

      By the time al Husseini returned to the M East, Hitler was dead, any support tied to Hitler’s promises, was non-existent. He was refused entry into Jerusalem by King Abdullah, King Tallal and King Hussein of Jordan. He died in exile in 1974.

      By now it should be apparent that mentioning al Husseini in relationship to the Palestinians and the situation of today is another example of the wholly holey moldy old Hasbara

      Furthermore, like "we made the desert bloom" and the idiotic Hasbara cherry pickings of Mark Twaine, are completely irrelevant to the fact that;

      Israel " proclaimed" its borders on May 15th 1948 in its plea for recognition.

      Nothing outside of those borders were Israeli and Israel has not since legally acquired any further territory.

      The Jewish state, Israel, has for 67 years been in occupation of, illegally annexing and illegally settling in territories "outside the State of Israel" ... "in Palestine"

    • @ DaBakr "I might have to look that up to see if I’ve been bamboozled all these years. even if it is ‘kit’ its hard to not like your spin on it."

      See you can be correct and it doesn't hurt!

      Now let's try some other instances like:
      Israel did proclaim its borders link to trumanlibrary.org
      Israel's leaders never intended to adhere to its borders link to mfa.gov.il

    • @ Citizen " The only soldiers that died in WW2 in behalf a state such as Israel is today were German and Japanese"

      The Japanese actually accepted Jewish refugees BTW. I've a long time friend who scoffs at the notion of Jewish race, nationality, DNA and ethnicity by describing himself as being a proudly yellow skinned, slanty eyed, yiddish speaking, kosher eating, German Jewish Japanese atheist in a Kippa.

    • @ Donald "... the hasbara crowd defending Israel by pointing to America’s sins."

      Beats me what point they're trying to make. Apart from pointing out to them that American Indians and Australian Aboriginals are citizens of their respective countries, can vote in elections, (in Australia it's compulsory), maybe they mean that:

      If the Americas and Australia had not been colonized, Israel would not still be colonizing non-Israeli territory today?
      or
      Maybe they mean that if all non-indigenous people's suddenly left the US and Australia, including Jewish Americans and Jewish Australians, but not including Jewish Indian Americans and Jewish Australian Aboriginals, then Israel would suddenly stop the illegal settlements, return all non-Israeli territories to Syria and Palestine, allow non-Jewish Israeli citizens who fled the violence in 1948 RoR to Israel and allow RoR for Palestinians to Palestine and suddenly start adhering to International Law?

    • @ Steve Grover "The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem Haj Amin Husseini was a NAZI and should have swung at Spandau with his friends."

      Odd that he didn't isn't it ...

      BTW what was your point? al Husseini wasn't the Grand Mufti off anywhere when he met Hitler. He was relieved of any official Palestinian station in 1937 by the British. Furthermore, Palestinians of the day didn't elect him, he was appointed to office by the British administrator Herbert Samuel, who was Jewish.

      Simple maths (2015 minus 1941 = 74 yrs) tells us that no one alive today would have even heard of him when he met Hitler.

      " I also prefer to highlight the subject of Abu Mazen’s doctoral thesis with as much thunder! "

      Quote the offensive parts

    • @ DaBakr "the kind of logic you are alluding to is completely lost on MW."

      What logic? catalan's assertions are shown to be nonsense.

    • hophmi "Jews were in far more desperate straights, and unlike Americans, they had been in the Holy Land continuously for thousands of years"

      Jews in Palestine weren't in desperate 'straights' hophmi. Jews who were NOT from and had NOT been in the Holy Land continuously (or even at all) were, even tho they had a right to return to the countries from which they fled. That right was extinguished by their taking citizenship in a country other than that of return. Even so, today Germany offers RoR to German Jews and ALL their lineal descendants

      Israel meanwhile doesn't offer RoR to its non-Jewish Israeli citizens and even prevents RoR to Palestinian refugees who have a right to return to non-Israeli territories in Palestine

      "Most would simply see it as hypocritical for people in settler societies who take precious little action against their own societies dictate to another, much smaller, much more threatened, perceived settler society. It’s an exercise of privilege."

      Lets' see if you can spot the difference. It's quite simple.

      A) The US, UK, Australia are no longer conquering territories and settling conquered territories and in fact they have been instrumental in the adoption of laws against illegal settlements and the illegal acquisition of territory by war.

      B) Israel continues to illegally claim territory acquired by war, illegally annexing and illegally settling against a law (GC IV) adopted to protect occupied civilians AND the civilians of the Occupying Power from the expected violent consequences of occupying another people and their territory. What kind of an insane Government purposefully encourages its citizens to illegally settle in areas where they are endangered?

    • @ hophmi May 13, 2015, 4:55 pm

      "Full voting rights AFTER they expelled or killed their indigenous populations."

      That's right hophmi. They eventually came to the conclusion they'd done the wrong thing.

      Will Israel follow suit?

    • @ catalan "Yes, it was hunky dory taking California from Mexico."

      They didn't seem to mind "In 1849 California requested permission to enter the Union as a free state ... "

      "And about Russia stealing Siberia in the 1860’s, .... it is ok because it happened before some convention."

      If you say so, I didn't.

      "I don’t know how to respond to such an absurdity. "

      By digging yourself a deeper hole obviously

      ---

      @ Dan May 13, 2015, 7:27 pm

      //The US legally annexed Texas etc thru a referendum of the legal inhabitants of those territories. //

      "The US also stole the territory that eventually became New Mexico, Arizona and much of Southern California. Did they also have a referendum for those populations?"

      A) "also stole" Hey there buddy I just showed they DIDN'T steal Texas, and you come out with 'also stole'. Cute... Denial your forte is it?

      ".. New Mexico, Arizona and much of Southern California. Did they also have a referendum for those populations?"

      It's easy enough to check. You ARE on the internet you know! Under the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo of 1848 the territory that became the states of California, Nevada, Utah and Arizona were ceded to the US. Know what a treaty is?

    • @ catalan May 13, 2015, 11:05 am

      " You see, once you steal enough land you get to write the laws and make it all perfectly legal"

      Strange. The law hasn't changed since the 1933 Montevideo Convention on the Rights and Duties of States -- link to cfr.org

      " If you steal even more (see the U.S. taking over half of Mexico"

      Only a real moron tells people to see something that disproves their ignorant and stupid theories. The US legally annexed Texas etc thru a referendum of the legal inhabitants of those territories. annexation of Texas -- link to avalon.law.yale.edu

      Likewise Hawaii and even Alaska well after Alaska was bought from Russia, the still Russian citizens of Alaska agreed to become Americans. By adopting the legal custom of self determination, the US was instrumental in the legal custom eventually passing into Customary International Law and the UN Charter

      " or Russia stealing Siberia from China)" Pre the 1933 Montevideo Convention on the Rights and Duties of States

      "then you can get yourself a seat on the security council and be one of the good guys"

      Strange. Israel doesn't have a seat.

      "When big guys like China decide to demarcate a whole sea as theirs, the best policy is to suspend the moralizing and do some dealing."

      Is that THIS China? -- link to google.com.au

      " If Iraq tries to do the same, you go after them"

      You'd rather Iraq be allowed otherwise? WOW!!

      "Nothing ever changes"

      It does actually. Although stupid people are still stupid people

    • @ hophmi

      "The real question is why, if these other nations are settler societies, Israel is the only so-called settler society that anyone seems to care about. "

      Israel is acting outside of its proclaimed and recognized sovereign extent. Israel is illegally acquiring territory by war. Illegally annexing. Illegally settling, illegally dispossessing

      "It’s interesting how there’s no call here for boycotting the United States, Canada, or Australia"

      They're not acting outside of their sovereign extent. They're not Occupying Powers illegally claiming and illegally settling territories outside their borders.

      I have a question for you. Please try to answer honestly. Why do you need to play stupid?

  • 'Forward' reports what 'NYT' covers up: Jews for BDS
    • JeffB May 13, 2015, 8:48 am

      "Judea is a geographical region which encompasses chunks of Palestine"

      "is"? "encompasses"? .... Was! Encompassed! link to upload.wikimedia.org

      "Judaea was a country formed by the residents of Persion Yehud Medinata when they got their independence. That country is in the Judea geographical region."

      "was a country" then "That country is in" You're desperation is apparent

      "Jews are a modern group of people who identify themselves as the descendants of the people of Judaea."

      Japanese Jews, ChineseJews, Australian Aboriginal Jews ... sure ... Convert and suddenly you're DNA changes, skin colour changes, eyeshape changes.. Nothing short of miraculous!!!

    • @ DoubleStandard"How many of these BDS Jews are marrying Jews and raising Jewish kids?"

      Why? If they do, will Israel suddenly adhere to the law, the UN Charter, relevant conventions? Suddenly withdraw from all non-Israeli territories for the first time in its modern history? Suddenly stop illegal settlements and start displaying Jewish values? Please explain the difference it would make to the values they believe in and the illegal activities Naziesque creeps support.

  • Scott Walker's foreign policy education begins w/ lesson: East Jerusalem is not occupied
  • Ilan Pappe on the western awakening and what it means for Israel/Palestine
  • Front-page attack in New York Times says BDS movement is driven by minorities' 'hostility toward Jews'
    • @ JeffB

      "First off in the real world Israel is going about 3m tourists this year"

      If they visit Jerusalem or any of the other territories occupied in 1948 and 1967, they're not visiting Israel.

      "There is no problem with Israeli tourism though likely it could be much larger"

      There is the problem of many of the tourist areas not actually being in Israel.

  • 'Israel should extend the right of return to all Palestinian refugees' -- Jebreal in 'The Nation'
    • @ DoubleStandard "I can’t really respond since the non-insulting sentences are mostly incoherent"

      Of course, of course, I understand your need to keep those olde moldy wholly holey Hasbara double standards intact :-)

    • DoubleStandard "1) The Palestinian refugees were not born in Israel"

      Correct. However non-Jewish Israeli citizens were! BTW Jews from Japan, China, the US, Australian Aboriginals, etc weren't born in Israel either

      "Their parents were"

      Correct. However, the parents of Jews from Japan, China, the US, Australian Aboriginals, etc were not!

      " there is no return because none of them were ever in Israel/Palestine"

      A) If they're over 67yrs (from '48) or 48yrs (from '67) , they were! Simple maths is a Hasbara weak point. B) But there is 'return' for Jews who were never in Israel/Palestine

      "and none of them have any properties or possessions left to return to."

      Jews from Japan, China, the US, Australian Aboriginals, etc never had any properties or possessions in Israel/Palestine. BTW the existence of properties or possessions is irrelevant, people have a right to return to the 'territory' they once lived in. Territory belongs to all its legal/legitimate inhabitants whether they own 'real estate' or rent 'real estate' or live under a bridge.

      "2) They got kicked out because they lost a war."

      They didn't fight a war, they fled. In fact the majority fled during the civil war, cleansed under Plan Dalet, before Israel was proclaimed.

      " You don’t get to just reverse the effects of a war by crying about it for 67 years"

      It took East Timor much less time... Kuwait even less

      "Every other refugee group in the world has been resettled"

      = nonsense. Read the news!

      "The only reason the refugees haven’t been resettled is because they are a political thorn in Israel’s side. "

      = more nonsense. Refugees are not obliged to accept citizenship in a country other than that of return and no one is obliged to offer them what they don't want. While they remain refugees they have a right to return, that is the thorn in the Israeli side. There are no Jewish refugees from any of the Arab States, they have all taken citizenship in countries other than the state of return, no longer refugees = no RoR.

      " If they..."

      If = speculation. Your speculation is based on Hasbara bullsh*t !

      "3) The article is extremely racist and is basically blaming the Jews for other Arabs deciding to kill Palestinians"

      Quote the passages ... thx BTW Neither Jews or Israelis are a race.

      "As if Israel should let itself be swamped with millions of people to save them from being killed by their own brothers"

      Again your speculation is based on bullsh*t! non-Jewish Israelis have a right to return to Israel. The remainder have a right to return to whatever remained of Palestine after Israel was proclaimed independent of Palestine .

      "4) Even if they had a right to return (which they don’t), they can only do so by turning Jews into a minority."

      = more nonsense. A) You're claiming Israelis have no right to return to Israel. B) Simple maths simply doesn't support the Hasbara theory unless it includes all Israeli/Palestinian refugees. However, Palestinian refugees do not have RoR to Israel.

      " In case you haven’t been paying attention, minorities don’t fair so well in Muslim countries. Thus, there is no way to implement the right of return without committing grave injury to the country’s Jewish population."

      = more bullsh*te.

      "If leftists in the West and the other Arab states would stop giving credence to this demand, then a peace agreement could have been signed long ago…"

      = more speculation which is not supported by anything that's ever been on the Israeli agenda

  • Senator Cardin's double standard on nukes in the Middle East
  • An open letter to Pamela Geller
    • flyercraz ".... am I missing something?"

      No. The feigned innocence and feigned ignorance of an apologist for Israel has a peculiar, un-mistakable stench to it

  • Jordan Valley villagers call for international intervention as Israel conducts massive military training
    • jon s"A petition circulating on the Israeli Left"

      No one on the 'right' believes in adhering to International Law, the UN Charter, relevant conventions?

      "Do not Let the Occupation Turn 50!"

      According to the Israeli Govt, Israeli military forces were on control of Non-Israeli territory on May 22nd 1948 link to wp.me

  • 'The Israelis never stopped shooting': Gaza endures under Israel’s one-way ceasefire
    • @ hmp49

      "Much of Gaza’s agricultural land is within “several hundred meters” of the border? Seriously?"

      Rationale behind your challenge? Oh. You forgot to include a rationale? You don't have a rationale perhaps

      "There’s a reason it’s a no-go zone, and the Palestinians have themselves to thank for that"

      Rationale? You forgot again...

      "Simple solution – don’t go withing 200 meters (650 feet) of the fence"

      Why? You forgot a rationale again! It's not a demilitarized zone, the IDF are there shooting into Palestinian territory. It's not the border. It's not Israeli territory either side of the fence. It's only an Armistice Demarcation Line. Israelis can go right up to the fence. Why not Palestinian civilians?

      A simpler solution would be for Israel to withdraw from ALL non-Israeli territories for once. It has never been tried.

    • ooops Why is the video so BIG?

    • "In Ashkelon, a coastal city a just north of the Gaza border"

      Question: Can anyone tell me how, when and by agreement with whom, the territory of the southern most part of where now Ashkelon sits was legally acquired by Israel?

      Arab State - From the southern point of intersection the boundary lines run north-westwards between the villages of Gan Yavne and Barqa to the sea at a point half way between Nabi Yunis and Minat El-Qila , and south-eastwards to a point , whence it turns in a south-westerly direction, passing to the east of the built-up areas of Es Sawafir Esh Sharqiya and 'Ibdis. From the south-east corner of 'Ibdis village it runs to a point southwest of the built-up area of Beit 'Affa, crossing the Hebron-El-Majdal road just to the west of the built-up area of 'Iraq Suweidan. Thence it proceeds southward along the western village boundary of El-Faluja to the Beersheba Sub-District boundary. link to yale.edu

      MORE : link to wp.me

      Jewish State - The Beersheba area comprises the whole of the Beersheba Sub-District, including the Negeb and the eastern part of the Gaza Sub-District, but excluding the town of Beersheba and those areas described in respect of the Arab State. It includes also a strip of land along the Dead Sea stretching from the Beersheba-Hebron Sub-District boundary line to 'Ein Geddi, as described in respect of the Arab State. (ibid)

      MORE : link to wp.me

  • Human rights activists thank Lauryn Hill for canceling upcoming concert in Israel
    • @ miriam6 "You people should check out Jello Biafra’s account of the aggressive way the BDS ers went after him over the issue of playing gigs in Israel
      Deeply unpleasant reading detailing the relentless bullying of Biafra a thoroughly decent man by BDS."

      I took your advice and read thru an extremely long article hoping to find something that verified your bullying claim. link to alternativetentacles.com

      Could you please quote the passages.....thx

      BTW Why are so many of Israel's apologists such blatant liars?

  • MSM's platform for Pamela Geller is equivalent to normalizing David Duke and Nazis
    • @ Neil Schipper " Imagine a cartoon contest to draw the most hideous caricature of a Jew ..

      It’s easy..

      if you try"

      If you say so Neil.

      Meanwhile there are people Jewish and not who're are quite hideous enough without need for a hideous caricature, who advocate the Jewish state remain in breach of the laws adopted in large part because of the treatment of our Jewish fellows under the $%^&* Nazis. Who purposefully encourage innocent Israelis Jew to illegally settle in non-Israeli territories, where they're in danger of becoming a statistic as a consequence of occupying another people and their territory.

  • 'NY Review of Books' says Tony Judt didn't really mean it when he called for the end of a Jewish state
    • jon s "The reality is that Israel is a fact , here to stay, it’s existence is non-negotiable"

      Wonderfull, now, how about Israel scoot outta other folk's territories and go live in its own territory for once. It's never been tried

      "The challenge is achieving peace , securing a Palestinian state, making Israel more democratic, with more social justice and less inequality…a long list of objectives"

      How about Israel scoot outta other folk's territories as required by law and go live in its own territory for once. It's never been tried

  • Palestine’s moment of truth for the International Criminal Court
  • Israeli army can't stop patting itself on the back for helping Nepal victims
  • Obama's role model to journalists -- Dorothy Thompson -- turned against Zionism and was silenced
    • @ Steve Grover //“Israel is the only country with Nuclear Weapons in the M East”//
      "Hopefully this is true and remain that way for a very long time"

      //“Israel does have the most advanced military in the M East.” //
      "Hopefully this is true and remain that way for a very long time"

      Odd. You now agree. Thanks for showing folk the duplicity and desperation Israel's apologists indulge in. Obviously you'll say anything, no matter that it contradicts what you've previously written

      // Israel is the only country in the M East to have illegally acquired by war, territory belonging to it’s neighbours” //
      "It serves those warm and fuzzy neighbors right!"

      Serves them right for what exactly? Israel's wars have ALL been in other folks territories. They've a right to attempt to expel Israeli forces from non-Israeli territory.

      //“Israel is the only country on the planet to be in breach of hundreds of unanimously adopted UNSC resolutions”//
      "those resolutions should have a BS preceding them to highlight what they are. All proposed by and supported by the most foul regimes on Earth!"

      The countries Israel courts and seeks to increase trade with are the most foul regimes on Earth. Interesting stuff.

    • @ Steve Grover

      Uh?

      Israel is the only country with Nuclear Weapons in the M East and by having them threatens to use them (otherwise there's no point having them)

      Israel does have the most advanced military in the M East.

      Israel is the only country in the M East to have illegally acquired by war, territory belonging to it's neighbours.

      Israel is the only country on the planet to be in breach of hundreds of unanimously adopted UNSC resolutions affording Israel hundreds of opportunities to adhere to the binding Laws and UN Charter and relevant conventions those resolutions emphasize and re-affirm.

      Israel lies about its borders link to trumanlibrary.org

      Israel lies to its own citizens endangering them by encouraging them to illegally settle in non-Israeli territories under occupation.

      She was quite correct.

  • Forgiving the anti-Semites
  • UN: 'Not a single destroyed home has been rebuilt' in Gaza since Israeli war last summer
    • @ DaBakr "so what happened to the 100s of tons of documented concrete that was trucked into Gaza through the eretz crossing?"

      No concrete has passed thru Eretz crossing you stupid person. All goods including those allowed by Israel from the Egyptian side pass thru Kerem Shalom.

      Apart from the fact that concrete and/or cement that has been damp becomes a solid block and is completely useless, it's been estimated that 1,000's of tonnes per day will be required over a number of years to re-build homes in Gaza.

    • @ Mayhem

      "from what do the Gazans have to defend themselves?"

      Israeli intransigence against all Palestinians. Being shot for being too close to their own side of the fence. Occupation, as you well know. Your feigned ignorance is cute

      " Don’t they realise that Israel would leave them alone if they hadn’t been lobbing thousands of rockets into Israel with the purpose of killing as many innocent Israeli civilians as possible"

      Keep repeating your drivel. Hamas, established in 1987, are a response to 90 years of Zionist colonization started in 1897 and 39 years of Israeli occupation beginning in 1948, the illegal acquisition by war by Israel of non-Israeli territory

      "Israel left Gaza unilaterally in 2006 "

      It's occupied. UNSC res 1860

      "Smuggling weapons into Gaza is hardly conducive to establishing any kind of a peace"

      It's a response to occupation and the illegal acquisition by Israel of non-Israeli territory since 1948 and 90 years of Zionist colonization

      "BTW, the true bully on the block is across the river in ISIS land. Hamas aspires to be like ISIS."

      Hamas aspires to be like ISIS according to the Tower? You're really quite gullible or stupid or a propagandist, likely all three

    • Mayhem

      "Chris Gunness is nothing more than a propaganda apologist for Hamas and an advocate for UNRWA that has a vested interest in highlighting and maintaining the plights of Palestinian refugees to help stock its coffers"

      Whatever drivel you need to post to keep your bile dripping. Who benefits once in UNRWA's coffers?

      " During the last Gaza war his organisation was implicated when rocket caches were discovered in three UNRWA schools."

      Dis-used schools

      "As of January, Israel had dispatched some 50,000 tons of construction material, and in February probably 20,000 tons more – and they were delivered to residents directly under the COGAT protocol that Israel and UNRWA had worked out"

      Anyone with a basic knowledge knows one builds from the foundation up. Foundation materials are not supplied.
      .
      "It seems that Gaza residents who lost their homes are preferring to resell their construction materials to rebuilding their homes. Indubitably much of that material is being used to rebuild terrorist tunnels – something Hamas and Islamic Jihad are bragging about."

      israelnationalnews LOL. An illegal settlers publication? Cute stuff.

      There's never been any terror visited on Israel via these alleged 'terror' tunnels.

      "Based on the photos coming out of Gaza, not only are no houses being built – but the heavily damaged buildings haven’t even been removed!"

      Correct. With what should they remove the heavily damaged buildings? Their bare hands? Maybe Israel could lend a few bulldozers

      "Hamas knows quite well that the photos of Gaza devastation translates into cash that will be donated for reconstruction "

      Aid doesn't arrive as money you stupid stupid person

  • AIPAC-backed legislation targeting BDS movement advances in Congress
  • EU must take stronger action to sanction Israel following high court decision banning boycott
    • @ HarryLaw "Does Resolution 242 as unanimously adopted by the UN Security Council require the withdrawal of Israeli armed forces from all of the territories occupied by Israel during the 1967 war? "

      Yes. Subsequent UNSC resolutions make it very clear. UNSC res 476 sums it up rather nicely UNSC res 476 1. Reaffirms the overriding necessity to end the prolonged occupation of Arab territories occupied by Israel since 1967, including Jerusalem;

      "According to Artur J Goldberg one of the drafters of the resolution the answer is no. In the resolution, the words ‘the’ and ‘all’ are omitted."

      Opinion rendered before or after the resolution was adopted, is meaningless, only the actual words of resolutions are relevant. The omission of 'the' and/or 'all' does not change the meaning of the resolution. The arguments over 'the' & 'all' during the drafting of the resolution were a well worn tactic used to delay the adoption of resolutions for as long as possible.

      Wikipedia is by it's editorial policies third hand opinion, which can be written by anyone.

      "The bottom line is, the major movers and shakers all agree, final borders have to be negotiated by all sides"

      There is no legal basis for demanding negotiations. Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Egypt's borders were defined prior to 1948. Israels' borders were proclaimed effective 00:01 May 15th 1948 (ME time) by the Israeli Govt. Israel has not legally acquired any territory since that proclamation and recognition. Palestinian territory was defined by default of its neighbours, including Israel.

      Their demand is akin to blackmail. Israel must negotiate because Israel cannot afford to adhere to the law under which reparations would be astronomical and the relocation of hundreds of thousands of Israelis back into actual Israeli territories would result in civil war in non-Israeli territories. A nightmare scenario, leading to a failed state

      " Who is going to stop them?"

      There is only one veto vote stopping them. That's why the Zionistas spend so much time, effort and money on maintaining the US UNSC veto. Draining the money pool thru BDS has a chance

  • Terrorism and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict: An argument
    • @ JeffB April 23, 2015, 7:43 am

      "Which is why we tend to distinguish between violence committed by governments and violence committed by individuals the later only being a “crime”"

      Nonsense. The federal state shall constitute a sole person in the eyes of international law. Any entity in breach of a law, be they an individual, group or state, is guilty of a crime.

      "Either you believe in equality of all people or you don’t. If you are going to argue for a permanent racial inequality where Jews do not have legitimacy and others do, I’m not sure why you would expect Jews to find that argument convincing"

      It works both ways right? It's not very convincing if you are going to argue for a permanent racial inequality where non-Jews do not have legitimacy and Jews do

      "The goal of Israeli actions so far in the West Bank is to inhabit and live there. They aren’t merely occupying they are migrating to it building homes and infrastructure. The same way Americans have migrated West over the last few generations. "

      The same way? The West Bank isn't Israeli. Americans can migrate to the West in America, but to migrate West to Australia for example, they'd need to become Australian citizens.

      "Obviously Israel does not agree that the Palestinians have a just right to an independent state in the West Bank given that they have formally annexed chunks of it, and de jure annexed a majority of it"

      Israel has not legally annexed ANY territory by agreement with the legitimate citizens of any territory.

      "As for Gaza I see no evidence that Israel doesn’t want Gaza to be independent."

      Gaza is a part of Palestine. UNSC Res 1860
      Recalling all of its relevant resolutions, including resolutions 242 (1967), 338 (1973), 1397 (2002), 1515 (2003) and 1850 (2008),
      Stressing that the Gaza Strip constitutes an integral part of the territory occupied in 1967 and will be a part of the Palestinian state,

      " It is the Gazans that has mostly attacked and harassed Israel since the 2005 withdraw"

      Gaza is occupied. Israel controls its airspace, its territorial waters and controls all its border crossings including, under the 2005 agreement and the Israel Egypt Peace Treaty, those with Egypt. The occupied have a right to legitimate armed resistance on behalf of all Palestinians including those of the West Bank and any other Palestinian territory Israel has illegally acquired . The IDF Memorial site shows us that more Israeli military have been targeted, killed and injured than have Israeli civilians.

      "I would need to see some evidence that were the Gazans to agree to live in Gaza in peace with Israel that Israel would reject that offer."

      The offer was made in front of the world at the UN , Israel ignored it and continued to build illegal settlements.

    • @ JeffB

      "Jews believe that Jews have the same right to Judea, as Chinese do to China and French do to France."

      Drivel. If Jews were to become Palestinian citizens they might have a similar right. However, the West Bank as it was officially named, isn't in Israeli territory. Israelis, Arab or Jew, do not have a right to settle in Palestine as Israelis.

      The Zionist Federation by demanding a separate Jewish state destroyed the opportunity for Israeli Jews to live anywhere in the Jewish People's Historic Homeland in Palestine.

      "Everybody acquired territory by force. Everybody. "

      Nonsense. We were given, completely gratis, the territory for our Jewish state. The war of independence ended the moment Israel became an independent state at precisely 00:01 May 15th 1948 (ME time)

      "In the mid 1800s when Zionism started, there was no distinct group of Palestinians. The people whose descendants would identify as Palestinians didn’t have an independent national aspirations."

      So what? Your argument is entirely irrelevant. Israel was proclaimed within the territory allotted it under UNGA res 181. Israel has not since acquired any territory by any legal means. What remained of Palestine at 00:01 May 15th 1948 was not Israeli then, is not Israeli now. Territories outside of Israel are quite simply NOT Israeli

      "Asserting that the Palestinians had the right to construct a nation-state based on strict geographic criteria is like asserting that they had the right to construct a satellite telescope."

      They have the right to do both

  • Understanding the Jewish National Home
    • hophmi " There was no other nation on that land"

      You're spouting bullsh*t. Palestine nationality law was passed in 1925, under which Jews could get Palestinian Nationality, buy land and settle anywhere in the Jewish People's Historic Homeland in Palestine as Palestinians

      "To call the 1948 Israelis colonists greatly simplifies the history"

      Jewish COLONIAL Trust 1897 ring a bell? Long before the Holocaust.

      "This is not some European behemoth marauding around the world plundering resources."

      True, Palestine is not around the world.

      "This is a collection of refugees who were the victims of European colonists"

      A) The Zionist Federation of 1897 were not
      B) Some Israelis were victims of Nazi Germany. European countries were also victim to Nazi Germany
      C) Now Israel is in breach of Laws adopted in large part because of the treatment of our fellow Jews under the Nazis.

      "The terminology is simply inaccurate here, and it is morally offensive to suggest that the Israelis, who were the victims of the Europeans in every way"

      There were no Israelis prior to 00:01 May 15th 1948 (ME time) according to the Israeli Government

      " it is morally offensive to suggest that the Israelis, who were the victims of the Europeans in every way should pay some price for colonialism when the Europeans have paid no price for it. That is disgusting"

      Right. I understand your need, because they did it, you should be allowed to do it too. In that way two wrongs make .... two wrongs.

      //Even if we were to ignore that the land was taken by the gun, the Israelis never lived up to the terms of the documents and decrees that “justify” its “legal” creation.”//

      "The terms of the documents? You’re being silly
      "

      Well, let's just take the declaration of statehood. Is there a constitution? NO! Has there been a Government legally elected under that constitution? NO! Is there religious freedom? NO! Were non-Jews asked to stay in the Declaration but already cleansed by Israel, welcome to stay? NO! Is it open to all Jews? NO!

      "There isn’t a nation on Earth, least of all Western nations, that can offer better justifications for their legal creations'

      No state can offer justifications for illegal facts on the ground in territories outside the state.

    • @ sklein1953 "Jews have longed to return to the “Promised Land” for a rcouple of thousand of years of exile. It is part of the Jewish prayer. It is in the Psalms and the prophets"

      So go whine a the Zionist Movement for having proclaimed Israel "as an independent republic within frontiers approved by the General Assembly of the United Nations in its Resolution of November 29, 1947" thereby robbing Israeli Jews of the right to settle anywhere in the Jewish People's Historic Homeland in Palestine, aka 'Greater Israel'.

    • @ sklein

      "A nearly four thousand year Jewish presence in the land is not historical myth"

      Correct. However, the far longer period of Jewish history in the region was as Palestinian Jews. About 2,000 years from the Roman era til 1948. Far longer than any Kingdom of David existed or State of Israel. link to wp.me

      BTW the nearly four thousand year Jewish presence in the land is irrelevant to the actual proclaimed sovereign status of the State of Israel and Israel's 67 years of illegal 'facts on the ground' in territories the Israeli Government claimed were "outside the State of Israel" ... "in Palestine".

    • @ hophmi "And therein lies your bias. Zionism, as proved by documents like the Carlsbad Resolution, is in no way racist"

      Zionistas deceitfully going back on their word time and time again has resulted in blatant racism.

    • Historically interesting and an insight into Zionist deceit. However what happened prior to the moment Israel was "proclaimed as an independent republic within frontiers approved by the General Assembly of the United Nations in its Resolution of November 29, 1947" became effectively irrelevant as of 00:01 May 15th 1948 (ME time)

      POINT: "The word “Certain” at the beginning of the last paragraph indicates that not all such communities were to be provisionally recognized as independent states. We will see later that Palestine was the exception"

      Iraq, Palestine, Trans-Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon were all under a class A Mandate and;

      Article 7 of the LoN Mandate leaves no doubt as to the status of Palestine

      ARTICLE 7. The Administration of Palestine shall be responsible for enacting a nationality law. There shall be included in this law provisions framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.

      The Nationality law was adopted in 1925.

      Further reading link to bcrfj.revues.org

  • The Second Coming of Holocaust remembrance
    • @ ivri " The Holocaust has many aspects that are unique to it – there is no need to repeat them as all are aware of that – which, in turn, had profound consequences on many"

      Indeed. Based in large part on what befell our Jewish fellows under the Nazis, the International Comity adopted laws and the UN adopted rules, codified laws, adopted conventions designed to protect all civilian, under occupation and those of the Occupying Power, from the highly likely violent consequences of occupying another people and their territory.

      It's quite bizarre It's *&^%$# criminal that Israel actively disregards the safety of Israelis by purposefully encouraging them to illegally settle in Occupied Territories in contravention of GC IV. Inflicts collective punishment by with holding Palestinian taxes and destroying vital infrastructure and then denying the means to rebuild. Confines civilians to a war zone by having all border crossings closed including, under the 2005 agreement and the Israel Egypt peace treaty, those between Gaza and Egypt. Bombs undefended towns and villages. Disregards hundreds of UNSC resolutions reaffirming and emphasizing binding law, UN charter (binding in its entirety) and relative binding conventions and affording Israel hundreds of opportunities to comply.

      "The Holocaust was a key factor in the establishment of Israel"

      The colonization of Palestine was planned in 1897 by a bunch of Zionists who weren't even of the region. From the Roman era Jewish folk in the diaspora could have gone to live in Palestine, acquired legal citizenship, bought land and settled anywhere in the Jewish People's historic homeland in Palestine, alongside fellow Jews who had an actual historical tie to the land. Herzl could have in his lifetime. He didn't bother nor did his family.

  • Just like the Nazis, Iran 'plans to exterminate six million Jews' -- Netanyahu
    • @ hophmi Wikipedia's editorial guidelines stipulate third hand opinion over truth and original documents.

    • hophmi

      "You’re in denial, friend. Iranian leaders have been saying this for year. What the heck is “Death to Israel” supposed to mean?""

      Number of times, dates and quotes in full/context ... thx

      "Really. Again, LOL. Who showed up? "

      It's irrelevant who showed up.

      "I just love the way people here defend the worst of Iran"

      Not defending anyone you stupid person, I'm contesting your assertions.

    • @ hophmi April 16, 2015, 10:25 am

      "So which part of what Netanyahu said is wrong, Phil?"

      The article was written for people to read. Try it

      " Has Iran not threatened to annihilate the Jewish state repeatedly?"

      Repeatedly? No. It's Israel's propaganda mongers who're "repeatedly" telling us over and over and over and over and over and over and over about an alleged threat Iran made once. It was actually no more than the UNSC demands of the Israeli Government illegally in Jerusalem link to wp.me

      "Has it not held Holocaust denial conferences?"

      Holding a conference on the Holocaust is not automatically Holocaust denial. What were the results of that conference BTW?

      "Have there not been moments in the past when do-gooders have valued paper agreements over common sense? "

      Yes, like believing Israel's Declaration of statehood, the Israeli Government's plea for recognition, it's statements to the UNSC, it's commitment to uphold International Law.

  • No Palestinians need apply to program on 'Palestinian issue' at Center for American 'Progress'
  • After torching Palestinian cafe and painting 'Revenge' on its door, 4 Israeli teens get community service
  • 'United States of Israel' has compromised U.S. 'sovereignty' on Iran policy -- Gideon Levy in D.C.
    • @ Steve Grover "Gideon Levy doesn’t seem to like Israeli’s leading a good life."

      Quote him in context ... or keep showing readers how moronic you can be. It's a simple choice.

      The more bullshit you write the bigger idiot you make of yourself

      Keep up th' good work

    • @ DoubleStandard " I forget that posts are generally expected to meet a minimal standard of anti-Semitism to be worthy of publishing"

      Cite/quote one.

      "He’s just a moron who makes a living off of trying to destroy the country that grants him the freedom to do so."

      Quote his alleged "trying to destroy" Israel and/or explain how Israel abiding by its agreements and the law some how endangers it.

      Meanwhile, making false accusations is against the basic tenets of Judaism. Making false accusations on behalf of the Jewish state is bizarre and only serves to show readers how far you are from common decency and Jewish values.

      Keep up th' good work!

    • @ DS
      Yes yes of course. Wanting what's best for Israel is ghastly. Supporting Israel's illegal activities in non-Israeli territories is good. We understand your need to raise your double standards high

  • Israel could reduce anti-Semitic violence by not calling itself the Jewish state, Finkelstein says
    • @ Annie

      "unless both you and hops are just on a kick of poisoning an otherwise interesting thread could you cease and desist please. or provide evidence other than your own hunch. a quote/ passage/ paragraph or something to substantiate your accusations please. thanks"

      You should know better than to even ask :-)

    • jon s "Sure , there was a typical Jewish appearance: beard, skull-cap, ear-locks, long black coat, etc"

      Mmmm.. How then can it be Antisemitic to portray them as such

    • Dan "When has he advocated that the Palestinians should forgo any of their legal rights. – please cite?"

      I'd have cited him if I'd thought that's what he advocated. It's want Israel wants, but has no legal right to demand.

      "Also please cite a legal authority – analysis by a qualified legal expert or a court ruling that supports your contention. "

      What do you think the UNSC is? Playschool?

      Israel has never legally acquired ANY territory by ANY agreement outside of those proclaimed by the Israeli Government May 15th 1948 in order to be recognized.

      No one has ever been able to produce the agreement which MUST exist for any territories outside of Israel's proclaimed and recognized boundaries to have legally become Israeli, because of the simple fact that they are not yet Israeli by any agreement. The Israeli Government admits by its own statement on land swaps.

      Why does Israel need to swap if it's already Israeli. Reason is of course because it ain't Israeli yet!

      There are no foreign embassies in Jerusalem because it has been illegal for states to recognize territories acquired by war since 1933

      My understanding is that you do not have any legal training or experience

      So what? The actual words of the LoN Mandate for Palestine prove the Howard Grief's in this world have either never read or must carefully omit Article 7 of the Mandate or they're idiots

      Nor have they read or must carefully omit the fact that even the Israeli Government acknowledges the Mandate terminated May 14th midnight 1948

      They spout what is easily proven beyond a doubt to be nonsense by the documents they cite. IOW They're liars. Charlatans. Trading in bullsh*t for the gullible

    • MRW "Does a state under international law have to have definable borders?"

      Of course it does. Otherwise there's no way of determining who owes a state rates & taxes. No way of defining which resources belong to a state, import/export duties, airspace, territorial waters etc. No way of telling if a state has been attacked or not.

      Not mentioning borders in the Declaration only meant the borders weren't mentioned in the Declaration. The moronic Hasbara notion that because no borders were mentioned in the Declaration that they did/don't exist is not only bullsh*te, it's an admission of a blatant attempt to purposefully deceive. They really are idiots

      Israel's sovereign extent was however undeniably proclaimed in the Israeli Government plea for recognition by which Israel was recognized and on which all subsequent UNSC resolutions are based.
      ,
      " Or is a declaration of statehood sufficient?"

      They're both part and parcel. "ARTICLE 1 The state as a person of international law should possess the following qualifications: a ) a permanent population; b ) a defined territory"

      Further to which it has been illegal to acquire or to recognize territory acquired by war since at least 1933, any war!

      Here's an example of JCPA duplicity One rule for the Palestinian another for Israel.

    • Mr Finkelstein is advocating a mere patch.

      There's no moral, ethical, logical or legal reason why Israel should not adhere to the law and f*ck off out of all non-Israeli territories for once and;

      There's no moral, ethical, logical or legal reason why the Palestinians should forgo ANY of their legal rights with or without negotiations.

      The fact is Israel simply cannot afford the compensations due by law for its 67 years of illegal dispossession and illegal facts on the ground in territories "outside the State of Israel" ... "in Palestine" none of which have ever been legally acquired by Israel.

      The only legal way out for the State of Israel is to strike a plea bargain with the Palestinians and hope their extreme generosity holds out. However, Israel refuses at every turn, every offer. Unfortunately 67 and more years of deceit have become habitual, a pathological nightmare

    • @ Tommy "They succumb to the same disease"

      Except of course Israelis are not fighting for their own territory. link to wp.me

    • @Brewer "When Norman makes the case for “the rights of Israelis to their state, which is recognized under international law” does he mean rights to sovereignty after the Palestinian property rights are restored"

      States have territory. UNSC and UN/UNGA resolutions and International Law talk about "territory", not 'land' or 'real estate'. e.g.,

      CHAPTER XI: DECLARATION REGARDING NON-SELF-GOVERNING TERRITORIES
      Article 73
      Members of the United Nations which have or assume responsibilities for the administration of territories whose peoples have not yet attained a full measure of self-government recognize the principle that the interests of the inhabitants of these territories are paramount, and accept as a sacred trust the obligation to promote to the utmost, within the system of international peace and security established by the present Charter, the well-being of the inhabitants of theseterritories, and, to this end:

      a. to ensure, with due respect for the culture of the peoples concerned, their political, economic, social, and educational advancement, their just treatment, and their protection against abuses;

      b. to develop self-government, to take due account of the political aspirations of the peoples, and to assist them in the progressive development of their free political institutions, according to the particular circumstances of each territory and its peoples and their varying stages of advancement; link to un.org

      Land/real estate/property can be owned by individuals, institutions and even governments foreign to a territory. However, the ownership of land/real estate/property does not confer any rights to the "territory" or to citizenship or the right to immigrate or permanently settle in a territory

      Territory belongs to all its legitimate inhabitants, whether they own land/real estate/property, rent or lease land/real estate/property or live under a bridge in a cardboard box!

      Palestinians who have not taken up citizenship of a country other than that of return do not need a deed to claim a right to return to their rightful territory. All that is necessary is for them to have been the legitimate inhabitants of a territory. Same applies to Jews from the Arab states, with the same proviso. If they have taken up citizenship in a country other than that of return, they are no longer refugees, they have the rights and protection of their new state.

      Despite the fact that Jewish individuals and Jewish Institutions owning land/real estate, Israel paid absolutely nothing for its territory.

      The US at least paid for Alaska, which only became a part of the US long after the purchase when the then Russian citizens of Alaska agreed to be annexed to and become citizens of the USA.

      Israel, the JNF et al are simply liars and thieves who will say anything to prevent Israel facing the ugly truth, it has never been able to afford to adhere the laws it first broke when Israeli/Jewish forces were in non-Israeli territory, dispossessing the rightful inhabitants on the day Israel's boundaries were proclaimed by the Israeli Government. Now 67 years later the compensations rightly deserved by those it has dispossessed are simply astronomical.

  • White House 'trolls' Netanyahu by co-opting infamous UN cartoon to sell Iran deal
  • 'Passover siege' in Hebron: Palestinians endure military lockdown so Israelis can enjoy holiday in occupied West Bank
    • (The Tried – verse 8). “As to those who have not borne arms against you on account of religion, nor turned you out of your dwellings, Allah forbiddeth you not to deal kindly with them, and to behave justly towards them; for Allah loveth those who act justly.”

      In the Hamas Charter (Article 31), tho Zionists never bother to cite it

  • Iran is 'congenital cheating' 'Islamic power bent on world domination' -- Netanyahu tells US media
    • @ catalan " Iran nominal GDP per capita is 4.7k.or 98 place in the world. Inflation....etc etc etc ...Their economy is less than half that of the Netherlands, which has 14M people"

      The Netherlands under sanctions is it?

  • Yarmouk-based NGO chronicles week of ISIS attacks on the Palestinian refugee camp in Syria
  • Double standard in US political culture: BDS is fine for Indiana, not Israel
  • Philosophy prof who likened Palestinians to 'rabid pit bull' ignites protest on CT campus
  • Emails show Missouri museum canceled 'Ferguson to Palestine' event under pressure from Jewish group
    • @ Steve Grover "Principled"

      acting in accordance with morality and showing recognition of right and wrong
      synonyms: moral, ethical, good, virtuous, righteous, upright, upstanding, high-minded, right-minded, proper, correct, honourable, honest, just, noble, incorruptible, anti-corruption, scrupulous, conscientious, respectable, decent

      What principle is there in stifling open dialogue?

  • World Water Day protest targets Massachusetts-Israel Water Partnership
    • @ Herb Glatter "Perhaps it’s time to boycott water"

      Interesting theory.... How does one boycott water?

    • @ Herb Glatter
      "So Jews are “steali....." No Herb, Israel is!

      " So " Israel is " “stealing” yet they build desalination plants for Israel and now in the largest plant in the Western Hemisphere for drought-stricken Southern California that incenses you?"

      No Herb, just the stealing part.

      Two fails Herb. Keep up the good work

  • Bill Maher justifies Netanyahu's racism by saying U.S. has done much worse
  • Zochrot and BADIL bring Nakba to U.S. audience
    • Giles March 23, 2015, 7:25 am "The war by the international Jewish leadership on Ger ... etc ..."

      Methinks evidence is necessary for any such assertions

  • 'Do US Jews need a Jewish state for our safety?' debate begins in wake of Netanyahu victory
    • @ TwoRedDogs agreed ... however "Do Greeks-Americans, Italian, Irish, Armenian, German-Americans" the Muslim-Americans from various countries "etc., sleep better knowing they have a state to run to if need be?"

      They don't have a state to run to unless they hold dual citizenship.

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