Commenter Profile

Total number of comments: 6805 (since 2010-02-26 10:49:56)

An old Jewish guy in Oz. Tired of the fallacies surrounding the I/P issue We were given the territory for a homeland state, with more than enough room for every Jewish person on the planet, even today Since proclaiming its frontiers in the May 15th 1948 in the Israeli Government plea for international recognition, Israel has illegally acquired by force and occupied more and more territory outside of it's proclaimed and recognized Sovereign territory. None of which has ever been legally ceded to or legally annexed to Israel by any agreement or legal instrument The occupied have a right to violent resistance against armed citizens of the Occupying Power. However, no one has a right or excuse for committing acts of terrorism against innocent civilians. To that end: I condemn all forms of terrorism, murder and any other harmful crime by any individual, group, organization or state and; condemn any government, individual or organization who purposefully encourages the illegally settlement of territories held under occupation thereby purposefully endangering its own citizens by using them to create illegal facts on the ground Today the State of Israel continues to encourage Israeli civilians to create illegal settlements, illegal facts on the ground, breaking law that was adopted by the UN and International Comity in large part because of the treatment of our Jewish fellows under the Nazis. Law adopted to protect all civilians including those of an Occupying Power from the expected violent consequences of occupying another people and their territory Israel demands the swap of non-Israeli territory for non-Israeli territory so it can keep non-Israeli territory in a future settlement. There is no legal basis for the demand nor is there for the disarmament of a future Palestinian state. All states have equal right to self defense. Likewise, there is no legal basis for the demand to be recognized as the Jewish state. Israeli demands have no legal precedence or validity The Palestinians have no legal, moral or ethical obligation to forgo any of their legal rights. Negotiations mean only one thing, the Palestinians forgoing legal rights so Israel can benefit Were Israel to adhere to the law, it can easily protect itself, grow and prosper. It'd have no UN resolutions against it. No need to continuing to corrupt US politicians in order to maintain a UNSC veto vote. No need to lie to and endanger its citizens I've received too many threats for opposing Israel's policies towards the Palestinians, broken windows, graffiti'd walls, hate mail, I'd prefer to remain anonymous, if that's OK. Who I am is irrelevant. Reliable information is essential to informed dialogue towards resolving the I/P issue. Propaganda has no place in struggle for peace

Website: http://talknic.wordpress.com

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  • Netanyahu and US neocons describe Israel as a miracle God helped to create
    • A) Where was God during the Holocaust? Playing godlf?

      B) International Law, the Rights and Duties of States, the UN Charter, the Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel and the Israeli Government plea for and subsequent recognition, don't mention God

  • In full page NYT ad, liberal Zionist group calls for ethnic segregation to retain Jewish majority within Israel
    • @ jon s September 26, 2016, 2:42 am

      "I’ve been away from this forum for a while. I notice that the commenter profile/ archive function doesn’t work. Is that temporary?"

      I'm sure it'll be fixed sooner than getting an honest reply from any of the Israeli propagandists who frequent MW link to talknic.files.wordpress.com

    • @ jon s September 26, 2016, 2:38 am

      "Back in 1947 the UN recommended “partition” and that’s still the best possible way to go , both morally sound and politically feasible, aka “the 2 state solution”"

      Which Israel accepted despite already having Jewish forces over the borders it proclaimed effective May 15th 1948. Borders by which Israel was specifically recognized link to wp.me

      Glad we got that sorted. So you're willing to take Palestinian citizenship, right?

    • “Separation between Israelis and Palestinians is Essential. No separation today means a Palestinian majority by 2020,” warned the public service announcement."

      Illogical crappolla written for folk who're either incapable of thinking for themselves or incapable of simple maths

      Even if Israel had allowed the return of its dispossessed non-Jewish Israeli citizens, the 500,000 or so Jewish folk from the Arab States by 1950 AND the hundreds of thousands of Jews from all over the world who have migrated to Israel since AND procreated, have pushed the number of Jewish folk in Israel way beyond any hope of a 'Palestinian' majority, ever!

      Even the 20% Arab figure is bullsh*t! The Jewish folk from Arab countries were ... ARAB!

      link to wp.me

      Furthermore the notion of differentiating by calling them Israelis and Palestinians is quite Naziesque! Those with Palestinian heritage, including Jewish Palestinians (1) or those from Brooklyn, Germany or China etc, are all Israelis and according to the Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel, they're equal

      (1) Jewish history in the region was as Palestinians far longer than any Kingdom of David existed.

  • Palestinian fishermen struggle to survive next door to Netanyahu's palatial suburb
    • @ Jackdaw September 24, 2016, 1:30 am

      "My criteria is ..." ... not living under a life time of the brutal occupation that you and your fellowfools4Ziocrime support

      @ Jackdaw September 25, 2016, 12:20 am

      "You don’t have to look to far to find Nazis"

      Indeed. The Palestinians ask for their legal rights. ZioNazis demand what is not rightfully Israeli

      "When is Mondoweiss going to publish an article about all the Jews, religious and otherwise, who live below the poverty line?"

      How about after they've been under 70 years of occupation

    • Page: 68
    • Jackdaw Ziodumps then in desperation wades around in it

      @ Jackdaw September 23, 2016, 4:45 pm

      "How gross I am? Gross enough to have had two kids and shown some restraint afterwards"

      That's 50% buddy. Don't they teach basic maths in Ziomoron school?

    • Watching Zioidiots is so amusing

      @ Jackdaw September 23, 2016, 3:59 pm

      "Maybe things in Jisr aren’t as bad as Skylar makes them out to be.

      link to timesofisrael.com

      1st paragraph..

      Jisr az-Zarqa is a place of starkly apparent isolation and poverty

      "Since half of the town’s residents are children, the good people of Jisr al Zirkah might have been able to raise their standard of living by having less children"

      How Naziesque. Thanks for showing folk just how low you're willing to sink on behalf of Israel's ongoing illegal colonization of Palestine

      One woman and one man, two children = 50% children.

      Say ... by your criteria, if Jews had less children, less of our fellows would have been killed in the Holocaust

  • In a world of conflict, peace is celebrated only one day out of the year
  • NYU pro-Israel group blocks public from IDF terrorism talk at last minute
    • Sure it wasn't your tongue turning to ashes?

    • @ Steve Grover September 21, 2016, 3:45 pm

      "This is the reason why Weiss wasn’t let in. He infringes upon open and honest discourse and debate centering around legal and humanitarian issues pertaining to Israeli policy"

      How strange. The reason given by the law student contact was the event had been closed to the public and he isn't a student

      Thanks Steve for showing folk that idiotic supporters of the ongoing Zionist colonization of Palestine will say anything, no matter how bizarre or inaccurate.

      False accusations are against the basic common sense tenets of Judaism. Resorting to false accusations in support of the Jewish State's illegal activities is really quite bizarre

      The fact that so many of Steve's kind are willing to breaking the basic tenets of Judaism is indicative of just how low they're willing to sink

  • US aid deal gives green light to Israel's erasure of Palestine
    • "... so what sets the limit?"

      The Zionist Federation has had over a century to hone it's skills in collecting information on and being able to threaten people in power in order to have them comply.

      Obama is just another short term US President.

      The Zionist Colonization of Palestine is a long term project, with no back out plan simply because it cannot back out and survive

  • Two women's boats set sail for Gaza in effort to break blockade
  • 'There's no occupation'
    • They all know they're belligerent occupiers, they have to lie. The State of Israel cannot now suddenly adhere to the law. Under the Law, Israel would be sent bankrupt paying reparations and attempting to resettle hundreds of thousands of Israelis back into actual Israeli territories

      It is after all, a pyramid scheme that depends on more and more land sold on loan, at interest and developed and taxed

    • Classic stuff

      @ silamcuz September 15, 2016, 7:28 am

      Look, I honestly don’t see what’s the problem in Israel claiming there is no occupation, when other, much bigger countries do the same without much protests.

      Turtle Island has been occupied for over 500 years now"

      Of course you don't

      Meanwhile International Law has evolved and it has been since at least 1945 that the acquisition of territory by war has been inadmissible. Something to do with self determination a la an internationally recognized convention.

      Israel obliged itself to adhere to the Law

      " and I don’t see anyone disputing the legitimacy of the government that is occupying it, the government known as the USA"

      Oh my, where will all the American Jewish folk go? Nudge nudge wink wink Or more importantly, who the f*ck is gonna maintain the precious US veto in the UNSC

    • How many lies can Alan Baker tell in succession? You'll meet his crappolla over an over. Facts come in handy

      "International law defines “occupation” as one power occupying the lands of a foreign sovereign"

      International Law actually says this:

      Laws and Customs of War on Land (Hague IV); October 18, 1907 Art. 42 SECTION III
      "Territory is considered occupied when it is actually placed under the authority of the hostile army. The occupation extends only to the territory where such authority has been established and can be exercised."

      "Israel entered the area known as the West Bank in 1967 and took over the authority to administer the land from Jordan, which was never considered to be a sovereign in the area"

      The West Bank as it is now officially named, was legally annexed at the request of representatives of the majority of the legitimate citizens of the territory. Jordan’s annexation was as a trustee only by demand of the other Arab states (Session: 12-II Date: May 1950) in keeping with the UN Charter Chapt XI

      UNSC res 228 “Observing that this incident constituted a large-scale and carefully planned military action on the territory of Jordan by the armed forces of Israel“

      "In actual fact, Israel and the Jewish people have got claims to the area that go far back into history. "

      The State of Israel only goes back as far as 00:01 May 15th 1948 (ME time)

      “... the state of Israel has been proclaimed as an independent republic within frontiers approved by the General Assembly of the United Nations in its Resolution of November 29, 1947, and that a provisional government has been charged to assume the rights and duties of government for preserving law and order within the boundaries of Israel, for defending the state against external aggression, and for discharging the obligations of Israel to the other nations of the world in accordance with international law. The Act of Independence will become effective at one minute after six o’clock on the evening of 14 May 1948, Washington time.”

      "Anybody who reads the Bible can appreciate the fact that there is a very solid historic legal basis to the claim of Israel with respect to the territories ..."

      The bible is not a legal document. The Israeli plea for recognition and subsequent "irrevocable recognitions" by other states were legal documents

      "... Israel is committed to conduct negotiations with the Palestinians in order to find a permanent settlement to the issue"

      Negotiations = Israel wants the Palestinians to forgo even more of their rightful territories after Israel was given completely gratis, more than half of Palestine for the Jewish State. Israel wants and has illegally acquired by war more than Israel proclaimed was Israeli and more than was recognized as Israeli

      "The Jordanians, who occupied the territory after the 1948 war, annexed it, but this annexation was never really recognized or acknowledged by the international community."

      Legality of annexation is not thru recognition, it's thru adherence to the Law in respect to self determination. The Jordanian annexation of the West Bank was by request of the majority of that territory's legitimate citizens. It was not condemned by the UNSC, unlike the condemnation of the unilateral annexation of East Jerusalem by Israel in UNSC Resolution 476one of at least EIGHT reminders of the 21st May 1968 UNSC Res 252

      " At a later stage the king of Jordan voluntarily gave up any Jordanian sovereignty or claim to the territories to the Palestinian people ..."

      Ooooops. So Jordan was sovereign over the West Bank in 1967 and in 1988 gave up it's sovereignty to the Palestinian people. Those little loose ends in the Ziopuke narrative can be soooooooooooooo embarrassing

      "The international community’s constant referral to the “Palestinian territories” is a complete fallacy and has absolutely no legal or political basis"

      A) Oh what suddenly happened to "Jordan voluntarily gave up any Jordanian sovereignty or claim to the territories to the Palestinian people"
      B) The majority of the International Comity of Nations have already recognized the State of Palestine.

      "There has never been a Palestinian state, as such, and therefore the territories never belonged to any Palestinian entity"

      Article 7 of the League of Nations Mandate for Palestine and the adoption of the Palestine Nationality Law in 1925 tell us the poor man is delusional or a liar. Probably both

      Article 7 The Administration of Palestine shall be responsible for enacting a nationality law. There shall be included in this law provisions framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.

      "There's no international agreement, there's no contract, there's no treaty, and there's no binding international resolution that determines that the territories belong to the Palestinians"

      Recognition of states by the majority of the International Comity of Nations is irrevocable. The majority have recognized the State of Palestine

      " ... the Palestinians themselves, in the Oslo agreement that they signed with Israel, acknowledge the fact that the ultimate permanent status of the territory is to be determined by negotiations. Therefore, even the Palestinians accept the fact that this is not Palestinian territory, its disputed territory whose status is yet to be settled

      So it isn't Israeli territory yet and it's under Israeli military occupation after having been under the sovereignty of Jordan who by 1967 was, including the West Bank, a UN Member State and a High Contracting Power to GC IV under which citizens of the Occupying Power may not illegally settle in Occupied Territories.

      "If the local population owns land, then the administrative power isn't allowed to take the land or use it. But if the land is not private, the administering power can use the land and enjoy the fruits of the land until sovereignty has been finally determined"

      A) Local land ownership is of 'real estate' B) Territory however, belongs to all the legitimate citizens of the territory, whether they own rent or lease 'real estate' or even if they're homeless living under a bridge

      Laws of War Art. 55. “The occupying State shall be regarded only as administrator and usufructuary of public buildings, real estate, forests, and agricultural estates belonging to the hostile State, and situated in the occupied country. It must safeguard the capital of these properties, and administer them in accordance with the rules of usufruct.”

      Another ooooops moment

      "There's no such thing as 1967 borders. A border is a line between two sovereign entities. In 1967, there was a ceasefire line that had existed since the 1948-1949 war between the Arab states and Israel and after Israel declared its independence. The Jordanians insisted on inserting in the Armistice Agreement of 1949 a provision which says that the armistice demarcation line is not the final border."

      So Israel's only borders are those it proclaimed effective 00:01 May 15th 1948(ME time). Any other territories are not yet Israeli

      "Final borders can only be determined in peace negotiations between the parties"

      Nonsense. They could be determined by Israel withdrawing from all non-Israeli territories held under Israeli military occupation. Never been tried. Israeli withdrawal from other folks territories under the Jordan/Israel and Egypt/Israel treaties resulted in peace

  • Amos Oz would never stand in the street in Tel Aviv shouting 'Kill all the Arabs'
  • Israel's bogus civil war
  • Netanyahu's ghost on 'ethnic cleansing' video is rightwing pollster Luntz
    • @ DaBakr September 15, 2016, 11:07 pm

      " Like the million dollar Palestinian/bds hasbara industry hasn’t dumped millions into pressing their own language program"

      Source of this "millions" claim please ... thx ... I'll wait ...

      "Apartheid, zio-nazi, supremacist, colonial project, and so many more"

      Israeli actions are deserving of apt descriptions

      Apartheid is written into the Declaration of Statehood
      1) "The state of Israel ... will be based on freedom, justice and peace as envisaged by the prophets of Israel" link to pages.citebite.com
      2) There were no representatives of the non-Jewish inhabitants "Accordingly we, members of the People's Council, representatives of the Jewish Community of Eretz-Israel and of the Zionist Movement" link to pages.citebite.com

      Israel practices Naziesque tactics link to hrw.org
      It's propagandists are supremacists link to mondoweiss.net
      It has been a colonial project since 1897 link to jewishencyclopedia.com

      "And so man hypocrisy commenters here say zionists whine"

      Indeed you do and are now. Unfortunately and as usual not whining at those who promote the injustices necessary for the continued colonization of Palestine

      ".. you people are having a coniption fit over a simple short hasbara video that was completely legitimate..."

      Netayahu LIED. Lies in your eyes are legitimate. Interesting theory

      "Palestinians and bds people say horrible and untrue things about Israel all the time as a matter of policy"

      They call for Palestinian rights under the Laws and UN Charter Israel agreed to and then blatantly failed to uphold. You must be so proud

    • Uh oh. DaBakr goes for another pathetic whining wade in the Ziopoop pool

      @ DaBakr September 15, 2016, 11:07 pm

      " .... They talk about luntz putting together a language proposal that presents a pro Zionist perspective"

      Never mind the fact that it's precisely what Luntz talks about

    • @ Talkback "You are just another liar."

      They don't care. It's all part of a propagandist's tool kit

  • Settler driver kills six-year-old Palestinian, and her family says there will be no accountability
    • "The Israeli Supreme Court ruled on Sunday that a law that permits force feeding hunger-striking Palestinian prisoners is constitutional ..." - See more at: link to mondoweiss.net

      What are they whacked out on? Israel hasn't been able to write its promised constitution, without which there has never been a legally elected government in the State of Israel.

  • Stand with Standing Rock, and say no to Dakota Access Pipeline
  • Netanyahu's big lie
  • 'Peace Now' chief slams AIPAC for misrepresenting Jews -- but Peace Now is on AIPAC exec committee
  • Israeli government projects 'ethnic cleansing' on Palestinians
    • Ziostupidity never ceases to amaze ...

      @ Mayhem September 11, 2016, 7:48 pm

      "As the Arab countries have virtually cleansed their societies of Jews since the birth of Israel as it became completely untenable to live as a Jew in Arab society "

      Uh huh. It's quite normal for countries at war to expel or intern possible allies of their enemies. The US, Australia, UK did it to their citizens of Japanese and German heritage in WW2. It's also normal to allow their freedom and/or return after hostilities have ceased except where they have taken citizenship in a country other than that of return e.,g., Israel, wherein they forgo refugee status

      BTW Under the Israel/Jordan Peace Treaty, "Jews (Israelis)" as you put it, are specifically allowed. Goes to show what can happen when an aggressive rogue Zionist state withdraws from other folks territories.

      Furthermore despite Israel's illegal acquisition of the Golan Heights, the Syrian government was in the process of restoring about a dozen Synagogues for the Jewish community in Syria prior to the civil war and in Lebanon the same process of Synagogue restoratio. I can only think of one religion to use a Synagogue.

      "now the Palestinian Arabs want to achieve the same end"

      It's quite legal and common to bar foreigners from illegally entering and/or settling in one's country. Israel doesn't allow foreigners to illegally settle in Israeli territory, why should anyone else? Got a brain? Try using it for once!

      "Even if Jews (Israelis) were interested in living in a Palestinian run state it would eventually become insupportable"

      How strange! There are already tens of thousands of illegal Israeli settlers in Israeli Occupied Palestine

  • Netanyahu's 'ethnic cleansing' video earns strong rebuke from State Department
    • Like the supporters of the Zionist Colonization enterprise who leave their pathetic justifications on MW, Netanyahu is a blatant and pathetic liar.

      All Israelis, including non-Jews are prohibited from illegally settling in non-Israeli territories under Israeli occupation.

      Israel doesn't allow illegal settlers, why should Palestine?

  • Banned from leaving Gaza, Palestinian group rocks out at border
    • @ Talkback

      //“The Occupying Power orders borders/crossings into and out of Occupied Territories open and/or closed. ”//

      "I’m not sure about that"

      Israel, the Occupying Power is in ultimate control over what who and when passes in and out of the territories it occupies

      "Even EUBAM hasn’t been reinstalled, yet, or has it?"

      No. It hasn't

      // attacks on military are not terrorism //

      "Not sure about that either since Egypt is not in war with Palestine and is not its occupier. You can’t just attack military only because its military."

      Never the less, it's not terrorism

    • @ Talkback September 10, 2016, 4:27 am

      // “They have to apply to Israel …”//

      "If that would be the case the Gazans couldn’t and wouldn’t bribe the Egyptians which they do."

      Makes no sense at all. They're more likely to bribe Egypt to get into Egypt than the Occupying Power

      Egypt is not the occupying power. Egypt must comply under the Egypt/Israel Peace Treaty. The Occupying Power orders borders/crossings into and out of Occupied Territories open and/or closed.

      Likewise under the Peace Treaty, Israel must prevent hostile agents entry into Egypt from territories occupied by Israel, so again Israel, the Occupying Power, orders borders/crossings into and out of Occupied Territories open and/or closed.

      " Egypt has virtually sealed the crossing since the terrorist attacks in the Sinai in October 2014 which killed 31 army and police soldiers"

      A) The crossing itself is not in Egypt.
      Egypt only controls its side of the border, AFTER the crossing.
      Egypt destroyed EGYPTIAN homes to create a buffer zone entirely on the EGYPTIAN side of the Palestine/Egyptian border link to google.com.au
      Egypt did not destroy any Palestinian homes in Gaza

      Israel, the Occupying Power over Gaza, destroyed Palestinian homes in Gaza to create an Egypt/Gaza buffer zone entirely in Gaza

      B) (1) attacks on military are not terrorism (2) do you really think Israel wouldn't do false flag ops to preserve it's precious Zionist Colonization enterprise?

    • Abe Bird September 11, 2016, 6:31 am

      " ... I wonder why we blame Israel for that? Why not balming Egypt that acts the same policy against Hamas/Gaza?"

      Israel is the Occupying Power power Gaza, not Egypt. The Occupying Power dictates when the border crossings of Occupied Territories are open and closed, when what who goes in and comes out

      " Why to force Israel to freely open it’s border with her enemy entity?"

      Uh? Israel maintains it has never declared any borders, not that one can believe Israeli propaganda link to trumanlibrary.org

      "As we are talking another 900 trucks full of food, medicine, cloths and building matterials enter Erez border gate today (daily) ... ... ... "

      Substantiate all your claims or shut it ... thx

    • DaBakr " they could have just as easily applied to leave through the other arab muslim nation that borders gaza. "

      They have to apply to Israel because it is the Occupying Power over Gaza, not Egypt.

      Like all shills for the Zionist Colonization enterprise, you're full of bullsh*t

  • NYC city council anti-BDS bill meets resistance from protesters
    • @ bettyberenson September 10, 2016, 6:44 pm

      "The Syrians are killing their people in the thousands, the Iranians are hanging gay men and killing women who have the courage of defiance, and you jokers are boycotting Israel, the scapegoat of the left. I am sad for you, because your hostility and ignorance make peace impossible."

      Lemme see what you're trying to say. If there wasn't a civil war in Syria now, the Zionist Federation would not have decided to colonize Palestine in 1897. Is that it?

      If Iran didn't hang murderers who happened to be gay, or is it that if Iran allowed gay people to murder, the state of Israel would not be in breach of International Law, the UN Charter and its own Declaration of independence and plea for recognition. Is that it? Seems really weird

      "I am sad for you, because your hostility and ignorance make peace impossible"

      Asking Israel to adhere to its legal obligations is hostile and ignorant and makes peace impossible or "From the river to the sea, Palestine will never be" is hostile and ignorant and makes peace impossible

      Zionist shills just don't seem to get the irony of what they say

  • Dozens of Spanish cities declare themselves ‘Free of Israeli Apartheid’
    • @ Jackdaw "Actually, the Jews are the indigenous people of the area. Try to disprove that fact."

      Oh FFS. It's disproved by the scriptures you putz. King David conquered someone, they certainly weren't Jewish

      " The Arabs came from Arabia and conquered the land much like the Conquistadores came from Spain and savagely colonized the New World"

      Neither were a majority replacing the indigenous populations. The Zionist Colonial pyramid scheme requires the dispossession of non-Jews in order to have a majority of Jews

      "All the Jews did, besides long for Zion, was accept the offer made to them by the League of Nations, and return to Zion"

      The offer was to settle in Palestine as citizens of Palestine. Article 7 LoN Mandate for Palestine link to avalon.law.yale.edu

      So it wasn't all they did. The Jewish Agency demanded and lied to get a Jewish State where there was no right to have one under the Mandate.

      After getting their state, completely gratis, and on the day it was proclaimed effective, Jewish forces were already outside its borders, busy dispossessing even more non-Jews

      "You got a problem with that?"

      Sure do pal. It's another lying Ziodump. Like all your pathetic whining. You're trying to justify the unjustifiable and in the process showing yourself to be as far away from the basic common sense tenets of Judaism as it's possible to get

      The indigenous argument is irrelevant to the legal status of Israel's proclaimed territories and Israel's illegal activities in territories the Israeli Government itself said on May 22nd 1948 were "outside the State of Israel" ... "in Palestine"

    • @ Jackdaw September 10, 2016, 2:52 pm

      "The Spaniards are quite delusional if they think that throwing Israel under the bus is going to save them from Islamist terrorism, regional sectarianism, a weakening E.U. or the effects of global warming"

      If YOU say so Jackdaw. No one else has

      Most of the world's nations adhere to their legal obligations, they're not under any bus

    • None of the usual comments on the Haaretz article link to haaretz.com ... I wonder why

  • It's war between Netanyahu and the generals (and the PM may just have lost the corporal)
    • @ Jackdaw September 10, 2016, 2:55 pm

      Look up! Look up! The sky is falling."

      If you say so Jackdaw. No one else is

      Meanwhile Jackdaw thinks asking Israel to adhere its commitments to International Law, the UN Charter is throwing it under a bus See more at: link to mondoweiss.net, as if the sky is gonna fall on the poor little rogue state if it adheres to its legal obligations

  • Why segregation is the single most important issue in Israel, and practical ways to confront it
    • hophmi September 13, 2016, 11:06 am

      "Mine are perfectly verifiable"

      for this ... "I’d be willing to bet there is statistically more segregation between Black and White expectant mothers in the US … “ ... you didn't provide any

    • @ hophmi September 11, 2016, 12:53 am

      " the reason that the Lebanese have not extended citizenship to the Palestinians is the same reason the Syria’s haven’t."

      ... they're not obliged to extend citizenship to refugees who'd rather go home

      "They hate the Palestinians."

      Uh huh. Generously hosting folk for over half a century sure is a sign of hatred, many of whom are actually non-Jewish Israeli citizens BTW dispossessed by Israel

      " Much more than the Israeli ever will"

      So why doesn't Israel host any. FFS Israel doesn't even allow its own non-Jewish citizens from 1948 return

      @ hophmi September 11, 2016, 5:08 pm

      " As if Lebanon had a choice as Syria’s main border state"

      Strange Turkey, Jordan and Iraq have far longer borders with Syria than does Lebanon

      Can you be truthfull about anything? Or are you just plain ignorant, maybe mind numbingly stupid.

    • @ hophmi September 11, 2016, 1:03 am

      ". I’d be willing to bet there is statistically more segregation between Black and White expectant mothers in the US ... "

      A person who'd be willing to bet would produce some verifiable stats.

      "... than there is between Arabs and Jews in Israeli hospital"

      Interesting assertion. Especially as some 500,000 Arab Jews were absorbed into Israel in the 1950's link to wp.me

    • @ Mayhem September 11, 2016, 5:05 am

      "For those with thick skulls Netanyahu could have not have expressed it better>"

      You're right! Only someone with a thick skull would believe the lying sack of sh*t!

      "I look forward to greeting the first Israeli prime minister to visit Australia next year. Of course the intolerant left are bound to get very frenzied over this"

      'intolerant left'? Why should anyone tolerate a blatant liar?

      'left'? I see. So there's no sense of justice, truthfullness, decency, morality on the 'right'.

      Got your point, though I doubt you'd realize what you're making obvious

    • @ hophmi September 11, 2016, 12:55 am

      "Where is the Arab world today can Jews live as equal citizens with full rights without fear?"

      That'd be a problem Israel created in 1948 by having Jewish terrorist forces in breach of its borders the day they were proclaimed effective ... link to trumanlibrary.org ... and ... link to pages.citebite.com ... Go whine to the people who covet and who've illegally acquired other folks territories and who planned the colonization of Palestine in 1897

    • Jon66 digs his cute Hasbara cat hole deeper

      "The peace treaties with Jordan and Egypt are not relevant."

      They show a 100% success rate for peace when Israel withdraws from territory that's not its own

      "It seems reasonable to believe that the Palestinian refugees are sympathetic to countries that Israel is at war with ... "

      A) They're countries at war with Israel because Israel is illegally in their territory
      B) Not all Palestine refugees are Palestinian, those with RoR to Israel are Israelis whose home land is in Israel, like;
      C) the 20% of non-Jewish Israelis still in Israel, who're very likely to be sympathetic to countries Israel is at war with for the simple reason that Israel is stealing other folks territories. No one likes a thief except other thieves

      "So is it reasonable for Israel to not allow refugees who are sympathetic to countries Israel is at war with to be refused entry at this time to Israel"

      No. It's 'reasonable' that Israel adhere to International Law, the UN Charter and relative Conventions and get out of all non-Israeli territories for once. It's never been tried

      "It shouldn’t matter who currently hosts the refugees, only the fact that the refugees themselves are potential allies of the opposing side"

      So get out of other folks territories as required by law. End the wars.

      "Lebanon is not at war with Palestine, but it refuses to grant Palestinians citizenship and keeps them in camps"

      B) It has generously hosted them, some for 70 years A) They don't want Lebanese citizenship, their homeland is a few kilometres south in Israel and in Palestinian territories

      "Is it therefore reasonable for Israel to treat Sudanese similarly?"

      Israel is treating Sudanese refugee worse you bl**dy cretin. The Arab States have granted refugee status to hundreds of thousands of Palestine refugees for more than half a century. Israel has granted how many Sudanese refugee status? link to timesofisrael.com

    • Mayhem September 8, 2016, 11:52 pm

      "when on the other side we have the makings of a totally racist society where Jews will not be permitted to live at all"

      Strange. You quoted Erekat, wherein there was no mention of Jews

      Try something else, you're failing .... constantly

    • @ Jon66 September 9, 2016, 7:20 am

      "Since Israel is still in a state of war with two of its neighbors"

      Three of its neighbours Mr History teacher ... Lebanon, Syria and Palestine!

      " should Israel allow the return of “possible allies of one’s enemies” before the resolution of the war?"

      Catch up Mr History teacher. Israel has Peace Treaties with Jordan and Egypt, per the 'Three Nos' and UNSC 242 !

      Israel refuses to allow the return of Palestine refugees currently in Jordan and Egypt to:
      A) Palestinian territories and it;
      B) refuses to allow return of non-Jewish Israeli refugees currently in Jordan and Egypt to Israeli territory.

      Furthermore, Israel perpetuates its wars by refusing to withdraw from other folks territories. Under the Egypt/Israel Peace Treaty, Israel withdrew from Egyptian territories per UNSC res 242 (ibid).

      Withdrawal for peace. Quite simple, get out of other folk's territories, especially as Israel was already granted, completely gratis, more than enough territory to accommodate everyone of our Jewish fellows on the planet today.

      "Do you think Israel’s refusal to integrate Sudanese refugees is justifiable?"

      A) Israel isn't at war with Sudan ... or is it? B) While accusing the Arab states who've generously hosted Palestine refugees for 70 years of failing to integrate Palestine refugees, it's hypocritical!

      Your Hasbara glad bag is empty, always has been empty, always will be empty

    • GregMozart does a smelly Ziodump. What a wade

      "... segregation has unfortunate consequences, not just in Israel but also in other countries. Including in the USA where I live"

      Segregation by law, as in Israel? WOW Greg!! Best you tell the US Judiciary

      "Palestinians also experience segregation in other countries in the region"

      Refugees are segregated in EVERY country where they do not want or take citizenship. Palestinian refugees would rather not lose their homeland by abandoning it to the Zionist Colonization enterprise, especially those non-Jewish Israeli citizens whose homes were in territory Israel proclaimed as its state

      " It’s all the more egregious when it’s de jure, when they’re being kept in “ghettos” similar to how Jews were kept by Christians, based on their ancestry only"

      B) It's actually because they're refugees who'd rather go home.
      A) Rather more egregious in large lumps that Israel, by Israeli Law, forbids the return of Palestinians AND non-Israeli cleansed by Jewish terrorists1947 and Israel in 1948/49 and 1966 when the so called '67 war was initiated by Israel.

      All the more egregious because Israel refuses RoR for non-Jewish Israeli refugees now in the camps in Gaza/Lebanon/Syria/Jordan/Egypt and any other country where they have been generously hosted for the past 69 years.

      "I know I have a different viewpoint than many people on this forum"

      Disseminating bullsh*t by calling it a 'viewpoint' is propaganda. A viewpoint surely requires seeing what is there before formulating an opinion. The wholly holey Hasbara is so empty of fact and logic, there's nothing there to see on which to base an opinion that favours it's purpose.

      "... I see the same pattern when it comes to Syrian refugees..."

      Me too. The same pattern. Israel accepts none while the the Arab States generously host them as they have many non-Jewish Israeli citizens for more than half a century. Unlike the the Zionist Movement's state policies on non-Jewish Israeli citizens it has dispossessed

      "example in Kuwait they actively expelled 200,000 Palestinians after the gulf war because PLO sided with Hussein"

      It's normal for countries involved in hostilities to expel or intern possible allies of one's enemies. It's also normal to allow their return if they were citizens, which the Palestinians were not!

      "After Black September, the Jordanian relationship with West Bank Palestinians soured and in 1988 they revoked their passports"

      A) State governments, even if a dictatorship, have a right, and duty, to protect the majority of its citizens from uprisings by an armed minority, especially of that minority are not permanent citizens of that state.

      B) Of course they revoked their passports, in 1988 the West Bank reverted to the Palestinians under the Jordan/Israel Peace Treaty, no longer a part of the State of Jordan, which by 1967 was a UN Member and High Contracting Power (signatory to GC IV). According to the UNSC (UNSC res 288 of 1966) "Hebron" in the the West Bank was a part of Jordan.

      Observing that this incident constituted a large-scale and carefully planned military action on the territory of Jordan [ the southern Hebron area ] by the armed forces of Israel

      Censures Israel for this large-scale military action in violation of the United Nations Charter and of the General Armistice Agreement between Israel and Jordan;

      "... I applaud Jordan for taking so many Palestinian refugees, and Lebanon for taking so many Syrian refugees"

      Uh? Might pay you to read what you'd previously written

      " ... don’t you think every country should OFFER every native-born resident an OPTION of citizenship, without waiting for another country (e.g. Israel) to give them a right of return?"

      So, that's 'every country' EXCEPT the country most involved. EXCEPT the country that has a legal obligation to allow its own non-Jewish citizens return!

      " Do you think every person who was born in country X deserves the choice to build a life and not be discriminated against based on their ancestry?"

      EXCEPT non-Jewish Israeli refugees of 1948 who were dispossessed by Israel?

      "We can certainly criticize Israel ... "

      I haven't noticed any attempt on your part. There's a lot to choose from.

      Were Israel, the State declared on my behalf, NOT in breach of the International Law, the Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel, the UN Charter, GC IV andJudaism's basic tenets, I wouldn't have need to criticize it, which would be an enormous relief

      " but let’s not let Anti-Zionism blind us to the plight of native-born Lebanese, etc. who are being denied basic civil rights and citizenship solely because of their Palestinian ancestry"

      Try something else pal. It's because they'd rather go live in their recent ancestral homeland instead of losing it to the Zionist Colonial Enterprise

      " Say what you want about refugees, but at least for people natively born in a country, they deserve to be given the option to have the same rights as everyone else. That’s my view"

      EXCEPT if they're non-Jewish Israeli refugees it seems, born in territory that Israel proclaimed and was recognized as Israeli

      " ... within frontiers approved by the General Assembly of the United Nations in its Resolution of November 29, 1947... "

  • New call for US investigation into killing of Palestinian-American teen in West Bank
    • Is there no end to the idiocy?

      @ DaBakr September 10, 2016, 10:25 pm

      "... like there was really a large outcry for an investigation of the 13yrs old american girl who had her throat cut from a ‘lone wolf’ ... ... "

      "The assailant was shot and killed, the Israel Defense Forces said".

      You want them to interrogate his dead body? If they did investigate it wouldn't surprise me if they found some other culprit, illegal settlers aren't exactly known for their adherence to any moral code I'm aware of

  • 'NY Times' rigs a purported news article to push U.S. escalation in Syria
    • @ DaBakr

      "you can get away with writing slanted opinion pieces disguised as a news stories almost every month on mondoweiss so the whining is a bit disingenuous"

      The MW slant is towards peace and justice. The NYT, you and your fellows are slanted towards continued injustice on behalf of the vile Zionist Colonization of Palestine. You must be so proud

  • There's no room on campus to be progressive and pro-Israel
    • @ mcohen. September 6, 2016, 10:03 pm

      "talknic your bds link …came across this

      “right of return for 7.2 million refugees ”

      do you think that this feasible.that would double israels population"

      You're spreading Ziopoop for people who've given it little logical thought.

      Not all 7.2 million have RoR to Israel. Israel, the Occupying Power doesn't allow ANY refugees RoR to Israel OR to whatever remained of Palestine after Israel was declared

      "the devil is in the details"

      The devil is in the bullsh*te propagated by the Zionist Colonial Enterprise

    • "i’d urge you to focus on what their demands are, instead of what they are not"

      @ mcohen. September 6, 2016, 10:09 pm

      "i focus on “right of return of 7.2 million refugees” "

      Uh huh. That's focussing (sic) on what they are not!

      Where does that 7 million+ figure come from? Out of the Hasbara hat or rrrrrrs?

      The UNRWA definition isn't applicable. It's only to ascertain who qualifies for assistance while they are refugees. UNRWA's mandate does not include final status. link to unrwa.org

      Nor does Palestine's plea for RoR reflect the UNRWA figure. The Palestinian claim is based on UNGA res 194 of 1948 adopted 12 months before UNRWA even existed. Seems some folk really don't have a clue when it comes to the chronological order of events.

      Only displaced non-Jewish Israeli citizens have a right of return to Israel's self proclaimed and Internationally recognized borders of 1948 at the time UNGA res 194 was adopted.

      Israel didn't make any official claim to territories the Israeli Government itself claimed on May 22nd 1948 were "outside the State of Israel" ... "in Palestine" until the 1st of September 1949 link to unispal.un.org

      "everything else is more less possible….but 7.2 million"

      It's a nonsense figure. The greater majority of Palestine refugees have RoR to Palestinian territories, not Israel link to wp.me

      "climate change pushing global temperatures up.water shortages.that is an enormous challenge for israel"

      Should have thought of that 70 years ago.

      Are we to believe the Jewish Agency, Jewish People's Council and the Zionist movement really weren't aware of Plan Dalet busy cleansing territories of non-Jewish occupants at the time they Declared Israeli statehood effective? And in their naivety invited non-Jewish citizens to stay?

      Or they did know about Pan Dalet and therefore were simply lying in the Declaration of statehood?

      Something doesn't make sense. If they were allowed to stay in May 1948 per the Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel, why by only August 1948 were the same people a demographic threat were they to return?

    • @ mcohen. September 6, 2016, 7:22 pm

      "so bds calls for what"

      link to bdsmovement.net

      "the devil is in the details"

      If there is such a thing/being as the devil, he/she/it is in the Zionist Movements vile pyramid scheme of 1897 to colonize, at a profit, the land of Palestine

    • A few tines for the Hasbara newby to squirm on

      @ Al2Sultan September 6, 2016, 1:06 am

      "One must ask why does israel maintain control over the land captured from Jordan who attacked her in the 1967 war?"

      One must ask if you've ever read ...

      UNSC Resolution 228 of 25 November 1966
      The Security Council,

      Having heard the statements of the representatives of Jordan and Israel concerning the grave Israel military action which took place in the southern Hebron area on 13 November 1966,

      Having noted the information provided by the Secretary-General concerning this military action in his statement of 16 November 1/ and also in his report of 18 November 1966,2/

      Observing that this incident constituted a large-scale and carefully planned military action on the territory of Jordan by the armed forces of Israel,

      Reaffirming the previous resolutions of the Security Council condemning past incidents of reprisal in breach of the General Armistice Agreement between Israel and Jordan and of the United Nations Charter,

      Recalling the repeated resolutions of the Security Council asking for the cessation of violent incidents across the demarcation line, and not overlooking past incidents of this nature,

      Reaffirming the necessity for strict adherence to the General Armistice Agreement,

      1. Deplores the loss of life and heavy damage to property resulting from the action of the Government of Israel on 13 November 1966;

      2. Censures Israel for this large-scale military action in violation of the United Nations Charter and of the General Armistice Agreement between Israel and Jordan;

      3. Emphasizes to Israel that actions of military reprisal cannot be tolerated and that, if they are repeated, the Security Council will have to consider further and more effective steps as envisaged in the Charter to ensure against the repetition of such acts;

      ... and then ask why Israel attacked Jordan first?

      "why have the Arabs residing in that area rejected numerous peace offers that would have ended occupation and given them a state on 96-99% of the land they claim to seek?"

      Why should they relinquish ANY non-Israeli territory to Israel?

      "Why have these same Arabs initiated suicide bombing campaigns even during the begining of the Oslo process aimed at creating a two state solution?"

      Maybe because they don't have war planes, tanks, war ships, artillery, guided missiles, helicopter gun ships, satellites, billions in military aid from the US

      " Why has Gaza turned into an Islamic terror enclave after israel withdrew all settlements certified by the UN?"

      The UN considers Israel to be the Occupying Power over Gaza

      8 January 2009 UNSC Res 1860
      Recalling all of its relevant resolutions, including resolutions 242 (1967), 338 (1973), 1397 (2002), 1515 (2003) and 1850 (2008),
      Stressing that the Gaza Strip constitutes an integral part of the territory occupied in 1967 and will be a part of the Palestinian state,

      "Why did Gaza initiate three missile wars with israel ... "

      A) If Gaza's home made rockets are 'missiles'? What are Israel's high tech guided missiles?
      B) Gaza is under occupation by Israel they have a right to attack the occupying power

      " ... and why do they divert humanitarian aid to build attack tunnels? "

      Because they're under occupation. Our Jewish fellows dug tunnels with whatever they could when resisting the Nazis

      "Israels weapons blockade on the strip was initiated only after the Hamas takeover

      A) Bullsh*t! Israel has always blockaded weapons from Hamas
      B) Hamas was the legal & democratically elected Government of Palestine

      "Why won’t the Arabs of the West Bank sit in direct talks with Israeli leaders and have consistently avoided this for years?"

      Why should they? Israel is in breach of binding International Law, the UN Charter (binding on all member states in its entirety), GC IV (ratified by Israel) as emphasized and re-affirmed by the UN in numerous UNSC resolutions reminding Israel of its legal obligations to end the occupation. Try UNSC 476

      Resolution 476 (1980) Adopted by the Security Council at its 2242nd meeting on 30 June 1980
      The Security Council,
      Having considered the letter of 28 May 1980 from the representative of Pakistan, the current Chairman of the Organization of the Islamic Conference, as contained in document S/13966 of 28 May 1980,
      Reaffirming that the acquisition of territory by force is inadmissible,
      Bearing in mind the specific status of Jerusalem and, in particular, the need for protection and preservation of the unique spiritual and religious dimension of the Holy Places in the city,
      Reaffirming its resolutions relevant to the character and status of the Holy City of Jerusalem, in particular resolutions 252 (1968) of 21 May 1968, 267 (1969) of 3 July 1969, 271 (1969) of 15 September 1969, 298 (1971) of 25 September 1971 and 465 (1980) of 1 March 1980,
      Recalling the Fourth Geneva Convention of 12 August 1949 relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War,
      Deploring the persistence of Israel, in changing the physical character, demographic composition, institutional structure and the status of the Holy City of Jerusalem,
      Gravely concerned over the legislative steps initiated in the Israeli Knesset with the aim of changing the character and status of the Holy City of Jerusalem,
      1. Reaffirms the overriding necessity to end the prolonged occupation of Arab territories occupied by Israel since 1967, including Jerusalem;
      2. Strongly deplores the continued refusal of Israel, the occupying Power, to comply with the relevant resolutions of the Security Council and the General Assembly;
      3. Reconfirms that all legislative and administrative measures and actions taken by Israel, the occupying Power, which purport to alter the character and status of the Holy City of Jerusalem have no legal validity and constitute a flagrant violation of the Fourth Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War and also constitute a serious obstruction to achieving a comprehensive, just and lasting peace in the Middle East;
      4. Reiterates that all such measures which have altered the geographic, demographic and historical character and status of the Holy City of Jerusalem are null and void and must be rescinded in compliance with the relevant resolutions of the Security Council;
      5. Urgently calls on Israel, the occupying Power, to abide by this and previous Security Council resolutions and to desist forthwith from persisting in the policy and measures affecting the character and status of the Holy city of Jerusalem;

      What's to talk about except when and how Israel will withdraw from non-Israeli territories. Further 'talks' mean only one thing, Israel wants the Palestinians to forgo even more of their own territory to Israel

      " And why won’t this author state clearly that the BDS platform does not call for two states for two people."

      Why should it? All BDS asks is that Israel end the occupation and allow Palestine the freedom to develope their own state, already recognized by the majority of the UN Members States

      " But rather will continue its campaign until israel is dismantled as the home of the jewish people"

      Quote the BDS movement, verbatim ... thx ... I'll wait

      "And it is this extreme position most western governments call anti Semitic "

      No it isn't, most governments according to the UNSC resolutions, want Israel out of all non-Israeli territories and an end to occupation, same as BDS.

      "I’d like a clarification"

      No you wouldn't, it'd spoil your wholly holey moldy old Hasbara

  • Many leftwing Israelis are leaving the country -- 'Forward' breaks an important story
    • @ silamcuz

      "What this article failed to point it out is that these left-wing Jews are moving to countries with high GDP, predominately white population, and with a fairly progressive political climate. Hence, it is more of a privilege for them to move there rather than some sort of noble sacrifice against Zionism"

      What you failed to do was read the first line of the Forward article

      "A debate has been raging in the Israeli left over the past few weeks — primarily in the opinion pages of Haaretz and on my Facebook feed — about Israelis who are choosing to move away from Israel as a political statement" link to forward.com

      " It’s not like these folks are moving back to Yemen, Ethiopia, Iraq, Morocco or other countries their ancestors arrived from"

      Right. So their ancestors weren't from Israel or pre-Israel Palestine ... glad we got that sorted

      "Given the opportunity, even the most nationalistic Palestinians would jump at the opportunity to migrate to the US, UK, Germany etc with their families"

      Seems the majority would rather move back to their rightful homelands, where their ancestors came from

    • "So these left-wing Jews are protesting against Zionism and settler-colonialism on Palestinian land, by moving to settler-colonial projects on Native American lands? "

      LOL. Even if true, what a moronic argument.

      A) The US is no longer colonizing. Israel is still colonizing

      B) The US grants full citizenship and voting rights to those it once colonized. Israel extended the same courtesy to only a token minority of non-Jewish Israeli citizens, those it didn't dispossess

      C) American Indians, tho formerly colonized, still live in America and can leave and return to anywhere in the US. Israel prevents its non-Jewish Israeli citizens from returning to Israel after having dispossessed them

      D) Where are all our US born Jewish fellows gonna go, (apart from illegally settling in non-Israeli territories) ?

  • Marc Lynch warns against the U.S. escalation in Syria
  • Daniel Berrigan's 1973 prophecy: Israel is becoming 'the tomb of the Jewish soul'
  • Israel's plan to retool occupation includes color-coding 'good' and 'bad' Palestinians
  • PA opens fire on funeral of Fatah leader beaten to death by Palestinian security officers
    • @ DaBakr " with israel looking like it has no intention to interfere(cancel) palesitinian elections (which is what abbas is praying we’ll do so he can blame israel) "

      Unsubstantiated speculation can be such fun. You can say anything...

      "the hamas is slated to take control of many municipalities in judea and samaria"

      A) Catch up. Judea and Samaria were officially renamed the West Bank by Jordan, the sovereign government between 1949/50 and 1988 . The territory was legally annexed at the request of representatives of the majority of the legitimate citizens of the territory. Jordan’s annexation was as a trustee only by demand of the other Arab states (Session: 12-II Date: May 1950) in keeping with the UN Charter Chapt XI link to un.org

      B) Hamas was democratically elected

      "but don’t hold your breath that abbas will face any form of accountability for the billions he stole from his people"

      Substantiated source please ... thx

      " ... he will undoubtedly live out his life in one of the half dozen palaces he built for himself in either ramallah or france or..?"

      Sources please otherwise we might think you're just another loudmouthed propagandist

      "after all-the hero the palestinians worship most stole at least as much money if not more with NO attempts to legally have it returned to the people to whom it belongs"

      The final audit by the IMF tells us you're just another loudmouthed propagandist
      From the NY Times (SUBSCRIPTION REQUIRED)
      “In total, the Fund estimates, the amounts diverted from the official budget from 1995 until 2000, when the diversions stopped, may have exceeded $898m. IMF officials say $799m was returned to the PA, with the difference accounted for by investment losses………the bulk of the money diverted from the budget – including all the Swiss bank accounts – was either given back or invested in companies that became part of the PIF, an assertion backed by the IMF”

      What a pity all you have is bullsh*t!

  • Church of Sweden explores BDS as 'only chance to liberate Palestinians and Israeli Jews'
    • @ Jackdaw

      Catch up, your wholly holey moldy old Hasbara is way past its crap by date. Jackdaws are quite intelligent BTW

      "The American government has spent considerable time and treasure trying to get the Palestinians to make a lasting peace with Israel "

      Nonsense. The US has vetoed any meaningful actions against Israel for its obvious, documented and UNSC condemned illegal actions in non-Israeli territories.

      " The Palestinians won’t/can’t do it. They can’t give up on their dream of Palestine from the ‘river to the sea’ and the return of ‘refugees’ "

      A) The Palestinians have generously offered, in front of the world at the UN, to accept only 22%
      of their rightful territories for peace with Israel.

      The Israeli response was more illegal settlements, more dispossession, more slaughter

      B) The Palestinians ask for RoR per UNGA 194 (1948) = non-Jewish Israeli refugees to Israel and Palestinian refugees to what ever remained of Palestine after Israel proclaimed its borders.

      The Palestinians argue for the rights of dispossessed non-Jewish Israeli citizens, Israel doesn't!

      What kind of a f*cked up little state run by bigots and thieves and supported by less than bird brained morons would refuse its own citizens RoR?

      C) The Palestinians ask for their legal rights per the Laws and UN Charter the Jewish state obliged itself to uphold

      D) Israel wants to swap non-Israeli territories for non-Israeli territories so Israel can keep non-Israeli territories. IOW Israel has offered NO THING and its demands have no legal basis what so ever

  • Huma Abedin dumps Anthony Weiner, occupation denier
    • @ catalan

      "I care about individual liberty, the environment, and freedom of movement."

      Very nice

      "Just because I like Israel ... "

      Oh ... This Israel?

      1. Reaffirms the overriding necessity to end the prolonged occupation of Arab territories occupied by Israel since 1967, including Jerusalem;

      2. Strongly deplores the continued refusal of Israel, the occupying Power, to comply with the relevant resolutions of the Security Council and the General Assembly;

      3. Reconfirms that all legislative and administrative measures and actions taken by Israel, the occupying Power, which purport to alter the character and status of the Holy City of Jerusalem have no legal validity and constitute a flagrant violation of the Fourth Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War and also constitute a serious obstruction to achieving a comprehensive, just and lasting peace in the Middle East;
      link to wp.me

      The irony of what some folk write is startling

    • "one would expect this from the likes of ... talknic ... "

      Another Zionasty making another stupid accusation by unsupported inference is quite amusing.

  • Gaza 2 years on: These children are now gone forever and an empty space remains
    • @ echinococcus September 2, 2016, 11:58 pm

      " “Rule of law” my @$$, Talknic. There is no rule of law with a totally illegitimate state."

      Israel, the Zionist Movement's "illegitimate" state, agreed to uphold the law. It hasn't.

      " You guys who defend a “fact on the ground” of a Zionist entity"

      Stating that something exists is not a defense of its existence. The weather reporter doesn't defend the weather

      "... without ever discussing the difference between justice and compromise"

      It's the very basis of my argument. Justice and compromise come about by determining responsibility.

      The statements of the pre-state Jewish Agency, the Zionist Movement and the official statements of representatives of the State of Israel whose borders were set at precisely 00:01 May 15th 1948 (ME time), tell us that the Zionist Movement's state is entirely responsible for the debacle and that it has offered neither justice or compromise. The Palestinians and Arab States have offered both in keeping with and exceeding the requirements of the UN Charter

      "Continue writing nice letters to important people in the hope that they will be put to better use than toilet paper"

      I'd tell you to go stick your head in one, except you rightly ...

      " ... agree that this must be done, too. Only, it should be done without believing in the Tooth Fairy of East Timor "

      East Timor now has its independence. It's a fact

    • @ echinococcus September 1, 2016, 2:10 am

      "Strange logic, Talknic"

      There's nothing strange in advocating the rule of law

      "There sure is something wrong if one of them is illegitimate and sitting on the other’s territory."

      [ Rpt ... There’s nothing wrong in principle with two states were each to uphold their agreement to the obligations of statehood ]

      "To do otherwise is to contribute to Zionist propaganda by legitimating their entity’s existence, no way out of that"

      [ Rpt ... My argument is against Zioni$m and over 100 years of and ongoing illegal colonization via their pyramid scheme. Their own words to show them to be liars, not to be trusted, least of all by Israelis

      Zionism’s supporters argue there is a legitimate State of Israel. My argument is with them and their their assertions

      Like it or not, Israel does exist as a state. It’s legitimacy can be called to question ... ]

      " ... as long as you do not create the impression that their very presence is somehow legitimated by that concession: to do otherwise makes definitive the injustice and gives a toehold to Zionist propaganda"

      I'm entirely against Zionist propaganda and the Zionist 1897 plan for colonizing Palestine.

      //It became that state by agreeing to a scheme adopted by a majority vote thru the UN, borders included. That is the starting point for any legal argument on behalf of and/or against the existing State of Israel//

      "No, that is the arrival point. The starting point is that that vote is totally illegal by the UN’s own charter, has been obtained under false pretenses by colonial powers"

      The proclamation of the State of Israel coming into effect at precisely 00:01 My 15th 1948 (ME time) is the starting point for arguments against the State of Israel. link to trumanlibrary.org

      Prior to that point the argument is against the UN link to wp.me

      " and must be undone"

      Undone how? Other than thru the UN, how will the innocent be given their justice without a major war and would a major war end in favour of the Palestinians? Both Palestinians and Israelis (and most of the world) (and Judaism itself) have been victims of the Zionist Movement's duplicity.

      "Anyone, neither you nor I have the right to extend forgiveness, the milk of human kindness, or any of that kind of nice things in the name of the Palestinian people who were not consulted so far, were not represented and up to now have not shown any signs of letting go of their rights ..."

      At the UN in front of the world as representative of the State of Palestine:

      we agreed to establish the State of Palestine on only 22% of the territory of historical Palestine - on all the Palestinian Territory occupied by Israel in 1967.

      We, by taking that historic step, which was welcomed by the States of the world, made a major concession in order to achieve a historic compromise that would allow peace to be made in the land of peace.

      Let us build the bridges of dialogue instead of checkpoints and walls of separation, and build cooperative relations based on parity and equity between two neighboring States - Palestine and Israel - instead of policies of occupation, settlement, war and eliminating the other

      "(By the way, all that talk of obtaining any compromise… is that in any way more realistic than a radical solution? Really? Looking at all these years? If you believe for a split second that anything is gonna happen without very major war, tell me how, with some believable basis.)"

      What you offer is more bloodshed. East Timor was eventually freed from Indonesian occupation via the UN. It took years of lobbying. One can hope for and promote the same thru exposing the Zionist Movement for what it is.

      Writing letters to government representatives outlining the legal arguments and/or acting in support of movements that promote peace and justice takes up most of my time. To that end I'll not be responding in future to your squabbling and falling into the age olde colonist trap of divide and conquer.

      Peace

    • @ echinococcus August 31, 2016, 7:38 pm

      You're way off beam.

      There's nothing wrong in principle with two states were each to uphold their agreement to the obligations of statehood as they stated they would in order to be recognized as worthy of recognition by the majority of the International Comity of Nations and subsequently accepted into the UN, obliging themselves to its principles.

      My argument is against Zioni$m and over 100 years of and ongoing illegal colonization via their pyramid scheme. Their own words to show them to be liars, not to be trusted, least of all by Israelis.

      Zionism's supporters argue there is a legitimate State of Israel. My argument is with them and their their assertions

      Like it or not, Israel does exist as a state. It's legitimacy can be called to question. It never the less exists

      It became that state by agreeing to a scheme adopted by a majority vote thru the UN, borders included. That is the starting point for any legal argument on behalf of and/or against the existingState of Israel.

      Like it or not. It now exists. Like it or not Israel is obliged to the Laws it agreed to uphold.

      Israel should therefore live up to the duties of statehood for all its citizens and its neighbours, which, in an ideal world, would hopefully result in people living with full rights peacefully amongst and next to each other, whatever shape their respective states or a single state might take.

      High jumpers don't aim under the bar. That's why folk have spent centuries pondering humanity's vexations and devising guidelines (Laws) that if agreed to and followed would hopefully bring us closer to a more harmonious, effective existence realizing the incredible potential of humanity

      Meanwhile, back in ZioLaLaLand, the Ziopoop says Israel proclaimed no borders. It clearly did in accepting UNGA res 181. The same borders recognized by the US, USSR, Australia and subsequently enough UN Member states for Israel to be accepted into the UN and oblige itself to the UN Charter and all it entails

      Like it or not that's what happened. Israel should live up to its obligations and live within its recognized borders

      "your spurious legalism, respecting the fact that colonial powers can force some gathering of puppet government heads to sign on on a decision totally illegal according to their own Charter, is a defense of Zionist invasion"

      Like it or not, that's what happened! I have neither respect for it happening nor can I justify it happening, but it DID HAPPEN!

      " ... you just now approved and justified barring access to post-1967 occupied Palestine for Palestinians given “Israel” citizenship pre-1967. That was your spurious legalism defending a monstrous violation of Palestinian rights"

      That is the status. It happened without my input or approval. Now Israel should adhere to its obligations

      It also happens that the Palestinian position is that it is generously willing to accept only 22% of the Palestinians rightfull territories in order to have peace with Israel. It happened without my approval.

      There are millions of innocent victims to the Zionist crime, Palestinians and Israeli, Jewish and non-Jewish alike. Seems the Palestinians are willing to extend those victims consideration, the hand of friendship and forgiveness, you're not

    • @ echinococcus

      You're talking nonsense.

      "So this pretend-legalist defense"

      What 'defense'? Neither the Armistice Agreements or GC IV are a 'defense' for continual Zionist colonization of Palestine

    • @ Mayhem

      "... please post details of your campaign to request all colonial powers who settled somewhere in the third world during the last few hundred year to withdraw and go back to where they came from"

      Duh?

      Nazi Germany from France/Poland/etc

      Indonesia from East Timor

      Iraq from Kuwait

      Egypt from non-Egyptian territories in Palestine (under the Egypt/Israel Peace Treaty)

      Israel from Egyptian territories (under the Egypt/Israel Peace Treaty)

      " But I suspect that with typical anti-Semitic aplomb that it’s only the Jews you are concerned about"

      Non-Jewish Israelis are also prohibited from illegally settling in non-Israeli territories held under Israeli Military Occupation

    • @ Mayhem

      1) Which parts of Gaza were immune from the IDF, the entire Gaza border was closed by the Occupying Power?

      2) You've answered that the Palestinians had no weapons capable of defending Gaza against Israeli warships, war planes, artillery and missiles

      The best you can do is an unsubstantiated Memri propaganda translation

    • @ Mayhem

      "Israel went to unprecedented lengths to minimize civilian casualties but war is war"

      Bullsh*t! Israel, the Occupying Power had all Gaza's borders closed, including those with Egypt.

      Illegal under Geneva Convention 1V…Section II..Occupied territories..Art49…The Occupying Power shall not detain protected persons in an area particularly exposed to the dangers of war unless the security of the population or imperative military reasons so demand. Civilians could not even flee into the sea, because Israel controls the Palestinian territorial waters.

      "Hamas had been firing thousands of rockets at Israel for years"

      The IDF Memorial site statistics show us that there have been more attacks on Israeli military and injuries and deaths of Israeli military than there have been on Israeli civilians. The number of Israeli civilians injured and/or killed is far far below the expected collateral of war.

      Furthermore under the Laws of War, Art. 25. The attack or bombardment, by whatever means, of towns, villages, dwellings, or buildings which are undefended is prohibited.
      Q1: Where could the innocent civilians of Gaza have gone, when all means of escape were closed?
      Q2: Of what use were the weapons available to the Palestinians as defense against an Israeli ship, miles out to sea, firing artillery shells into the territory or against a missile, fired from a fighter plane?

    • @ DaBakr August 29, 2016, 5:17 pm

      "maybe the vastly-by 1000s- greater numbers of children being killed daily in the greater middle east "

      Yessireeee. Widely reported in the MSM already.

      Lemme see If I get your drift

      ... if MW also covered what's already widely known, Israel would:

      end the Occupation?
      withdraw its military and citizens to it's self proclaimed and Internationally recognized borders?
      suddenly pay compensation for 68 years of belligerence?
      suddenly allow its non-Jewish Israeli refugees RoR!

      Is that what you're trying to say?

    • @ DaBakr August 29, 2016, 5:17 pm

      " we’ve heard it before: end the i/p conflict, destroy the zionist entity and the greater middle east will become a paradise for children, women and minorities as well"

      Heard it where?

  • Israel bans entry for two more US activists
    • @ Ally_Mayhem August 30, 2016, 10:45 am

      "Wow! The level of anti semitism is very strong here."

      Cite it ... verbatim ... thx

      " Let me give you guys a history lesson. Israel has been home to the Jews for over 5000 years. "

      It's been home for others for far far longer. King David conquered someone who lived there before Judaism was even thought of and Jewish history in the region was as Palestinian Jews for far longer than any Kingdom of David or State of Israel. About 2,000 years, from at least the Roman era until 1948

      " In 1917, there was the Balfour declaration that specifically stated that the Jews had the right to return to the land."

      The Balfour declaration was one government minister. It wasn't even British policy at the time. The declaration wasn't even discussed in the British Parliament at the time! It was only later adopted into the LoN Mandate for Palestine, in particular Article 7

      "In 1922, the land was devided into Jordan for the muslims and British mandate Palestine which was meant for the Jews"

      Bullsh*t! Read Article 7 of the LoN Mandate for Palestine link to avalon.law.yale.edu

      "That was still the partition in 1948 when Israel became independent"

      More bullsh*t! The partition plan divided the territory into two parts. The LoN Mandate for Palestine demanded the British keep Palestine as one state for both Jews and non-Jewish Palestinians and assist it to independent statehood. As such the British could not approve of partition.

      " There was no Muslim occupied Palestine at the time "

      So what? Israel proclaimed its frontiers May 15th 1948 in its plea for International recognition as "an independent republic within frontiers approved by the General Assembly of the United Nations in its Resolution of November 29, 1947, and that a provisional government has been charged to assume the rights and duties of government for preserving law and order within the boundaries of Israel, for defending the state against external aggression, and for discharging the obligations of Israel to the other nations of the world in accordance with international law. The Act of Independence will become effective at one minute after six o’clock on the evening of 14 May 1948, Washington time.:" link to trumanlibrary.org

      What lay outside of those frontiers was quite simply not Israeli. Nor has Israel legally annexed any of the territories it illegally acquired by war since declaring its frontiers effective at 00:01 May 15th 1948 (ME time)

      Go Ziopoop elsewhere

  • Let's talk about Russian influence
    • @ hophmi

      "Well, the international community recognizes Israel within the 1967 borders."

      Example please

      " It does not recognize Russian in Crimea. So when does the boycott of Russia begin?
      "

      Is that the same Russia Netanyahu seeks trade with?

  • The Palestine-Israel language trap
  • Druze Arabs in the occupied Golan Heights discuss borders, identity, colonialism and war
    • @ DaBakr

      "if i had a nickel for every anti-israel zionist hating true-believing mediocre minded dreamer who ‘warned’ about the impending “halt” israel will be coming to ... "

      I'm sure Hitler felt the same invincibility

    • @ Talkback August 21, 2016, 5:07 am

      "The settler state has started a war in 67"

      1966 to be precise link to unispal.un.org

    • @ DaBakr August 20, 2016, 9:27 pm

      "Assad and his father have had more then 40yrs to ‘take back the golan’ but have done absolutely nothing."

      Odd. They've followed the correct channels ( legal ). It's Israel who is in breach of the laws of occupation ( illegal )

      Like all stupid Ziopropagandists, you're barking at the wrong people

  • 'The Forward' fails to find source of anti-semitism hoax that its reporter concocted (Updated)
    • Supporters of Israel's crimes simply don't know when to stop blaming everyone else, twisting adding or omitting, fabricating justifications or when to stop outright lying! It's an illness brought about by over a hundred years of Zionist brain washing

  • 'NYT' and Sen. Murphy have a double standard on Yemen and Gaza slaughters
  • The last Gaza war worried Scotland's Jews-- for all the wrong reasons
    • @ catalan August 16, 2016, 2:34 pm

      “When I think about my Jewish ancestral heritage, I want to jump in the shower and scrub. -” Yoni //

      "I feel the exact same way ... In spite of the power that I yield as a Jew over the worlds of finance, entertainment, and law"

      Take your hands off that and raise them in the air, turn around slowly and step out of the shower

  • Beinart calls anti-Zionists 'revolutionaries'
    • So why do they still use home made rockets hophmi ?

      hophmi! You there? Hey! hophmi!

    • @ hophmi August 22, 2016, 11:44 am

      "The Palestinians have plenty of weapons, which they’ve turned on the Israelis before, and they have plenty of well-armed benefactors in the regions who will willingness give them weapons, like Iran"

      So why do they still use home made rockets?

    • @ ClearAndPresentDanger August 20, 2016, 1:22 pm

      "One would do well to recall that 5-6 Arab neighbors replied with a resounding ‘nyet’ to the entire UN Partition Plan"

      So what? It wasn't binding on anyone who didn't accept it. Their rejection of the plan is also irrelevant to the fact that territories outside the proclaimed and Internationally recognized boundaries of the State of Israel are quite simply NOT Israeli. link to trumanlibrary.org

      Also irrelevant to the illegality of Israeli actions in non-Israeli territories,never legally annexed and illegally acquired by war and; irrelevant to Israel's illegal activities in territories militarily occupied by Israel.

      "... by unilaterally attacking Israel in 1948"

      A) What Israeli territory was invaded?

      B) No Israeli territory has ever been invaded.

      On May 22, 1948 - UNSC S/766 the Provisional Government of Israel answered questions addressed to the “Jewish authorities in Palestine” was transmitted by the acting representative of Israel at the United Nations.

      Question (a): Over which areas of Palestine do you actually exercise control at present over the entire area of the Jewish State as defined in the Resolution of the General Assembly of the 29th November, 1947?

      "In addition, the Provisional Government exercises control over the city of Jaffa; Northwestern Galilee, including Acre, Zib, Base, and the Jewish settlements up to the Lebanese frontier; a strip of territory alongside the road from Hilda to Jerusalem; almost all of new Jerusalem; and of the Jewish quarter within the walls of the Old City of Jerusalem. The above areas, outside the territory of the State of Israel , are under the control of the military authorities of the State of Israel, who are strictly adhering to international regulations in this regard. The Southern Negev is uninhabited desert over which no effective authority has ever existed." ... " the Government of the State of Israel operates in parts of Palestine outside the territory of the State of Israel"

      The Arab states had a legal right under Chapter VII of the UN Charter to inform the UNSC of their intentions and attempt to expel Jewish forces from territories the Israeli Government claimed on 22nd May 1948 "outside the State of Israel" ..."in Palestine"

      "The Arabs lost in 1948"

      Strange, they prevented Israel from taking Judea and Samaria and Gaza. Also irrelevant to the illegal acquisition by Israel of territory by war or force

      "... now they want a do-over including a return to the 1948 lines that they rejected"

      That's not what the Palestinian declaration of statehood tells us. Nor is it what the Arab Peace initiative tells us. You're full of Ziosh*te

    • @ hophmi August 17, 2016, 11:34 am

      "Resolution 194 is a GA resolution and is non-binding"

      The Laws, conventions and UN charter as cited, reaffirmed and/or emphasized in ANY UN resolution, are binding.

      "2. Here’s the UN’s partition plan map. The plan envisaged a Jewish state and an Arab state. That’s what the UN envisaged. Two states, one for Jews, and one for Arabs."

      ... and the corpus separatum, which has never been instituted, I.e., Jerusalem has never been legally separated from Palestine, it was not proclaimed by the Israeli Government as Israeli and has never been legally annexed by any agreement to Israel.

    • @ mcohen

      "who was president or prime minister.any flag.anthem.how about coins ... "

      A) Irrelevant to the legal status of Israel's proclaimed and internationally recognized territorial extent as of 00:01 May 15th 1948 (ME time link to trumanlibrary.org ) and Israel's continued illegal activities in non-Israeli territories held under military occupation.

      Territories "outside the state of Israel" are quite simply NOT Israeli. link to unispal.un.org

      B) Even Israel used the Palestine Pound as its first currency.

  • Boycott, from within and without
    • "3) Return of Palestinian refugees. Ah, this must be the difficult one. The argument here is, that potential return of about 7 million refugees>"

      The figure has nothing to do with RoR claimed by the Palestinians under UNGA res 194 written in 1948!

      UNRWA (1949) didn't exist in 1948. The UNRWA definition (1949) cannot possibly apply to UNGA 194 (1948) and;
      the UNRWA definition and Ziospouted figure is only to ascertain who qualifies for assistance while they're refugees, UNRWA doesn't have any say in final status link to unrwa.org

      Dispossessed non-Jewish Israeli citizens and their lineal descendants have Right of Return only to the Israeli territories they left.

      ".. Refugees from Israel- controlled territory amount to approximately 711,000" ... Israeli controlled areas, including territories the Israeli Government itself claimed on May 22nd 1948 were "outside the State of Israel" ... "in Palestine".

      By 1950 Israel's Jewish population was boosted by some 500,000 Arab Jews from the Arab States ... there has been a continual influx of Jews into Israel since 1948. There has NOT been any significant influx of non-Jewish Arabs into actual Israeli territories.

      Simple maths tell us Israel's Jewish population long ago exceeded the non-Jewish population even if those dispossessed non-Jewish Israeli citizens and their lineal descendants were allowed to return.

    • @ Jon66

      "I think it should be, Where there are peace treaties, Israel has withdrawn"

      No interim withdrawal, no peace.

      The treaty demands action without which the words are ineffective

    • @ Jon66 August 18, 2016, 10:51 pm

      "I forgot. The source for this BS as you call it is the Jordanian govt.
      link to kinghussein.gov.jo "

      Interesting, however it's only the opinion of an un-named author. Only the Peace Treaty text is the peace treaty. What was said before and or after is not the peace treaty and doesn't change the text of the Peace Treaty.

      Read the relative annex referencing the borders on link to kinghussein.gov.jo [ link to kinghussein.gov.jo ]

      “Strange, when Israel withdrew from Egyptian territories as required under UNSC res 242, peaceful relations were assumed"

      ”No. Relations were resumed upon completion of the interim, that is partial, withdrawal"

      Indeed. Interim was part of Israel withdrawing from Egyptian territories per UNSC res 242, as mentioned in the Peace Treaty. If Israel did not execute and complete the interim withdrawal ... go figure

      "Complete withdrawal of Israeli forces was not required to begin normal and friendly relations"

      Correct. I didn't say complete or all

      "Israel and Palestine should begin talks and after agreeing upon peace terms, including any territorial withdrawal, peace should be established as it was with both Egypt and Jordan"

      Catch up pal. They did that at Oslo. Israel continued the occupation, continued lusting after non-Israeli territories, continued assisting Israeli Jewish civilians to illegally settle in harms way in Occupied Territories

      Empty your mind of Ziopuke, then read the Egypt/Israeli Peace Treaty ... carefully

      Article 3 - International Boundary
      1. The international boundary between Jordan and Israel is delimited with reference to the boundary definition under the Mandate as is shown in Annex I (a), on the mapping materials attached thereto and coordinates specified therein.
      2. The boundary, as set out in Annex I (a), is the permanent, secure and recognized international boundary between Jordan and Israel, without prejudice to the status of any territories that came under Israeli military government control in 1967

    • @ Raphael August 18, 2016, 9:37 am

      states are all required however to have “respect for and acknowledgement of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force”

      "That is what I meant"

      You're babbling!

      " ... they do not even respect basic sovereign rights of individual Israelis; or rights as a nation state, home for the Jewish people."

      Strange. Israel started ALL its wars which have ALL been fought in and over non-Israeli territories.

      Jewish forces under Plan Dalet were already in non-Israeli territories the day Israel's borders were proclaimed. No Israeli territories were invaded nor have any Israeli territories been occupied. link to wp.me

      Where Israel has withdrawn from non-Israeli territories there are Peace Treaties. Egypt and Jordan.

      "They close off of all discussion for peace, because they are at war"

      The Occupying Power is first required to agree to and then withdraw.

    • @ Jon66 August 18, 2016, 9:10 am

      "You are reversing the order of events"

      Very funny.

      " Israel and Egypt first negotiated the terms of withdrawal and peace"

      Precisely, between Egypt and Israel. The peace treaty was not between Israel and Palestine. There was no negotiation over their respective borders because Egypt's borders were defined long long before Israel proclaimed its own

      "Unilateral Israeli withdrawal did not occur."

      Only one state held territory of the other A) No Israeli territory was held by Egypt. B) Read the actual Peace Treaty

      Article I

      1. The state of war between the Parties will be terminated and peace will be established between them upon the exchange of instruments of ratification of this Treaty.

      2. Israel will withdraw all its armed forces and civilians from the Sinai behind the international boundary between Egypt and mandated Palestine, as provided in the annexed protocol (Annex I), and Egypt will resume the exercise of its full sovereignty over the Sinai.

      3. Upon completion of the interim withdrawal provided for in Annex I, the parties will establish normal and friendly relations, in accordance with Article III (3).

      Article II

      The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel in the recognized international boundary between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine, as shown on the map at Annex II, without prejudice to the issue of the status of the Gaza Strip ... link to mfa.gov.il

      "Similarly with Jordan ... Moreover, the treaty defined Jordan’s western borders clearly and conclusively for the first time"

      More bullsh&t! Jordanian borders were defined by 1946, before Israel proclaimed its borders May 15th 1948 in its plea for recognition

      "AFTER the treaty was signed Israel withdrew"

      WOW!! Ya don't say! That's amazing!

    • @ Raphael August 17, 2016, 7:06 pm

      "... The Arabs were and are a warlike tribe..."

      So were the French when their country was invaded. Can you name anyone who wasn't warlike when invaded?

      "they are warlike and brutal, and, did not, and do not seek to live with their neighbors in peace"

      Strange, when Israel withdrew from Egyptian territories as required under UNSC res 242, peaceful relations were assumed. Ditto Jordan. While Israel occupies other folks territories, it is at war.

      "so the Israelis were and are justified in the self defense of their land"

      Israelis are entitled to Israeli territory and defense of that territory as it was proclaimed and recognized by the majority of the International comity of Nations and International Law & conventions per the UN. link to trumanlibrary.org

      Israelis, be they Jewish or non-Jewish, are NOT entitled to settle in non Israeli territories held under military occupation and thus far, Israel has not legally annexed ANY of the territories it has acquired by war since proclaiming its borders effective at 00:01 May 15th 1948 (ME time) link to wp.me

      "The Arabs even until this present day refuse to even acknowledge that Israel exists ... "

      So what? Recognition of statehood is not mandatory. ” ..in the view of the United States, International Law does not require a state to recognize another state; it is a matter for the judgment of each state whether an entity merits recognition as a state. In reaching this judgment, the United States has traditionally looked for the establishment of certain facts. The United States has also taken into account whether the entity in question has attracted the recognition of the International community of states.”. There are UN Member states who do not recognize each other, yet the UN has accepted them as members.

      States are all required however to have "respect for and acknowledgement of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force" something Israel has failed to do, having attacked all its neighbours' territories and started every one of its wars including 1966 -67 . link to unispal.un.org

      NO ONE HAS EVER INVADED ANY ISRAELI TERRITORY (ooops my caps were on ... oh well too late now, may as well bold as well) ALL OF ISRAEL'S WARS HAVE BEEN FOUGHT IN NON-ISRAELI TERRITORIES, I.E., IN TERRITORIES THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT ACKNOWLEDGED ON MAY 22ND 1948 AS BEING "outside the State of Israel" ... "in Palestine"

      "... because, the Arabs are at war with them ..."

      You have conveniently omitted because Israel occupies non-Israeli territories and has done so for over 68 years link to wp.me

      "I’m not even a Jew, I’m a non Jewish Jew; that became a Israeli, so I’m a second class citizen of the Middle East… one class above a Arab that is third class citizen, or resident"

      Irrelevant. BTW if you're not Jewish by birth or religion or conversion, you're not even a non-Jewish Jew

      "I say it in all sincerity ... ... blah blah "

      LOL Your wading around in Ziopoop is hilarious stuff

      "After all is said… it is not the UN, or the US, or the Arab States, or American Jews that the Arabs in Judea and Samaria will have to negotiate a deal with… it is with Israel."

      There's no legal requirement what so ever to negotiate with an Occupying Power except on how and when the Occupying Power will withdraw. See the Egypt/Israel Peace Treaty, which is based on UNSC res 242 which doesn't even contain the word 'negotiate'!

      "why not simply live in peace with one another, by having a nation within a nation"

      There was. Palestine, a Nation State under the LoN Mandate for Palestine Article 7

      "the nation of Israel first?"

      Why? Palestine was there for the major part of 2,000 years from at least the Roman era , far far longer than any Jewish state existed. link to wp.me In fact, Jewish history in the region has been for the major part, as Palestinian Jews

      "Then look at creative ways rather then destructive ways to communicate with each other day to day."

      How about Israel creatively for once F*CK OFF (ooops caps again) from all non-Israeli territories it covets and has illegally acquired by war over the past 68 years

      There is not a single argument you can put forward that will ever justify Israel's crimes against the Palestinians

    • @ benedict August 15, 2016, 4:44 pm

      "In the case of BDS the ultimate goal is to destroy the Jewish state."

      Quote please ... thx ... I'll wait!

      "Assuming the goals of BDS will ever materialize ... "

      Speculation based on unsupported assumptions are such fun

      " ... it will risk the lives of countless Israeli jews and dash the hope for jewish independence. Why should any sane Israeli support such goals?"

      Indeed. Why would anyone support these alleged, unsubstantiated, goals. Furthermore, why would any sane person make unsubstantiated accusations

      Ziopoopers are well known here for inventing crappolla then speculating and asking questions based on their stupid fantasies

      As for risking the lives of Israeli Jews, best they get out of all non-Israeli territories they occupy. What kind of sick state for 68 years encourages its civilians to put themselves and their children in harms way in territories "outside the State of Israel" ... "in Palestine"

  • Olympian at the checkpoint: why a Palestinian swimmer couldn't train in Jerusalem
    • @ ClearAndPresentDanger - does a Ziodump

      "The Palestinians have supposedly chosen to not build Olympic pools..."

      Says who?

      "Nor have they chosen to declare their nation"

      Catch up. They declared in 1988, offering to accept only 22% of their rightful territory for peace with Israel. It's been on offer for almost 30 years. Israel's answer is to illegally settle more and more

      " and build a country"

      Impossible under a military occupation that dispossesses, illegally settles, restricts trade imports and exports, withholds taxes, destroys infrastructure, steals resources, slaughters at will and has isolated Gaza & the West Bank from each other

      ... instead being content with first Egypt and Jordan preventing them for decades from having their own nation"

      Neither Egypt or Jordan prevented them from anything. Egypt occupied Gaza via the Armistice Agreement with Israel and per the UN Charter Chapt XI. Israel signed the Armistice Agreement with Jordan and Jordan legally annexed the West Bank as a trustee at the request of the majority of the legitimate inhabitants.

      Israel's gluttony for non-Israeli territory and the ongoing military occupation has prevented a Palestinian State gaining independence

      " then allowing kleptos like the Egyptian Arafat "

      The final audit for the International Monetary Fund says you're spouting Ziopoop
      From the NY Times (SUBSCRIPTION REQUIRED)
      “In total, the Fund estimates, the amounts diverted from the official budget from 1995 until 2000, when the diversions stopped, may have exceeded $898m. IMF officials say $799m was returned to the PA, with the difference accounted for by investment losses………the bulk of the money diverted from the budget – including all the Swiss bank accounts – was either given back or invested in companies that became part of the PIF, an assertion backed by the IMF”

      " and now Abu Mazen to do the same, and in the process siphoning off the billion$ of foreign aid they have received"

      Evidence please ... I'll wait

    • Mayhem Ziodumps on the Palestinians August 14, 2016, 4:56 am

      "Palestinians competing at the Olympics are an embarrassment. They don’t have the wherewithal. "

      That's why you're here I guess. A wee Ziotirade, a tired Ziotactic. Attack in order to defend the indefensible

      Who should be embarrassed tho? They haven't the wherewithal for anything much. It has been Israel for the last 68 years preventing the establishment of a Palestinian State, 68 years actively preventing Palestine's economy from growing and who now withholds taxes, destroys Palestinian infrastructure, destroys simple water projects funded by international donors, agriculture, destroys businesses, prevents Palestinian exports, creating a situation where now thousands of Palestinians sneak unapproved into territories Israel has illegally acquired by war just to earn a meager living. Proving BTW, the separation barrier isn't effective in stopping suicide attacks

      "Their presence at Rio has nothing to do with them having any sporting prowess; they are showing up just to win propaganda points"

      Oh FFS All your comments are entirely just to win propaganda points. At which failing spectacularly seems to be your forte. Can't be difficult the way the wholly holey Hasbara leaks crappolla

      "Mohammed Abu Khoussa, the first Palestinian runner to compete in the 100-meter event in the Olympics ran the worst time 11:89 of all competitors in the heats of the event"

      No disparaging remarks about any other of the plethora of competitors who came last ... why not? tch tch tch!

    • @ asherpat August 14, 2016, 3:17 am

      "Well, no doubt, this is an embarrassing loss for the anti-Israel crowd"

      Hasbara bullsh*t, the ongoing illegal occupation of non-Israeli territories , the dispossession of non-Jews from land and territories the Zionist Movement's state covets and ignoring the basic tenets of Judaism are an embarrassing loss for Israel.

      " You are obsessed with finishing us"

      Uh?

      " we are obsessed with surviving"

      Go survive in Israel, that's what it's for surely

  • In overwhelming vote, leading Lutheran branch calls on US to cut off aid to Israel
    • @ Talkback

      You have to feel sorry for the poor schmuck who takes the MaxNarr shift

      "OK, who's doin' th' MaxNarr shift? "

      "No sir, never again " ...

      "Nor me. Act real stupid and say idiotic nonsense? No sir " ... "Why don't you do it yourself? Max was your stupid idea? Ha ha ha ha !!! "

      "I'll pay you double!"

      "Is that all? ... No sir!" ... "Nor me! Try Mooser over at MW! Ha ha ha ha !!!

      "F*ck all of youze, I'll do it myself!"

      "LOL. You always do. "

    • Exactly what is MaxNarr trying to say @ August 14, 2016, 11:36 am ?

      "Never forget that Martin Luther urged his followers to burn all synagogues in Germany to the ground"

      That justifies Israel being in breach of International Law?

      The Lutheran Church must now either remain silent or approve of Israel's crimes?

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