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An old Jewish guy in Oz. Tired of the fallacies surrounding the I/P issue We were given the territory for a homeland state, with more than enough room for every Jewish person on the planet, even today Since proclaiming its frontiers in the May 15th 1948 in the Israeli Government plea for international recognition, Israel has illegally acquired by force and occupied more and more territory outside of it's proclaimed and recognized Sovereign territory. None of which has ever been legally ceded to or legally annexed to Israel by any agreement or legal instrument The occupied have a right to violent resistance against armed citizens of the Occupying Power. However, no one has a right or excuse for committing acts of terrorism against innocent civilians. To that end: I condemn all forms of terrorism, murder and any other harmful crime by any individual, group, organization or state and; condemn any government, individual or organization who purposefully encourages the illegally settlement of territories held under occupation thereby purposefully endangering its own citizens by using them to create illegal facts on the ground Today the State of Israel continues to encourage Israeli civilians to create illegal settlements, illegal facts on the ground, breaking law that was adopted by the UN and International Comity in large part because of the treatment of our Jewish fellows under the Nazis. Law adopted to protect all civilians including those of an Occupying Power from the expected violent consequences of occupying another people and their territory Israel demands the swap of non-Israeli territory for non-Israeli territory so it can keep non-Israeli territory in a future settlement. There is no legal basis for the demand nor is there for the disarmament of a future Palestinian state. All states have equal right to self defense. Likewise, there is no legal basis for the demand to be recognized as the Jewish state. Israeli demands have no legal precedence or validity The Palestinians have no legal, moral or ethical obligation to forgo any of their legal rights. Negotiations mean only one thing, the Palestinians forgoing legal rights so Israel can benefit Were Israel to adhere to the law, it can easily protect itself, grow and prosper. It'd have no UN resolutions against it. No need to continuing to corrupt US politicians in order to maintain a UNSC veto vote. No need to lie to and endanger its citizens I've received too many threats for opposing Israel's policies towards the Palestinians, broken windows, graffiti'd walls, hate mail, I'd prefer to remain anonymous, if that's OK. Who I am is irrelevant. Reliable information is essential to informed dialogue towards resolving the I/P issue. Propaganda has no place in struggle for peace


Showing comments 300 - 201

  • Circumcision deaths are a legalized non-scandal
    • hophmi June 26, 2012 at 3:45 pm

      //“This change contravenes the interests of the child to decide later on his religious beliefs.”//

      "How? Granted, the physical act of circumcision is irreversible. But how does it prejudice a child’s choice of religion .."

      The choice as a religious Jew, to believe his own circumcision is or is not necessary.

    • hophmi June 25, 2012 at 7:00 pm

      "you are free not to circumcise your children and also free not to attend the ceremonies of those who choose to"

      Let's talk about the freedom of children from being mutilated by those "who choose to" mutilate children.

    • hophmi June 26, 2012 at 7:45 am

      "This is matter of radical left-wing politics"

      Babies have right wing politics, there fore they want to be mutilated? No one on the left supports circumcision? Only the right believe in mutilating children? It's RIGHT to be cruel to children because of your religion? I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

    • hophmi June 26, 2012 at 1:07 am

      "This can go on and on"

      Yes there's no preventing accidents and unknowns.

      Circumcision is deliberate

      "Let’s respect a religious practice instead of creating a new class of victims and a new reason to offend the First Amendment"

      I don't believe chopping bits off children is covered by the First

      BTW the victims are the CHILDREN , not the people mutilating them

    • hophmi June 26, 2012 at 1:02 am

      "Some change, like this, constitutes religious oppression"

      Circumcising babies before they can choose for themselves, constitutes both religious oppression and physical oppression over a defenseless human.

    • hophmi June 26, 2012 at 1:00 am

      "there are no victims here"

      Babies having a part of their (Go-d given) anatomy removed in the name of religion, for dubious medical reasons and for the cosmetic preferences of their parents, aren't victims?

      "There is no constituency of males asking to be liberated"

      There IS a constituency of parents, doctors, hospitals and now district attorney, Charles J. Hynes

      "and there is no basis for a movement"

      But there IS a movement

      "This is exactly the type of coercive lefty overreach that makes people hate the left"

      UH? Since when has circumcision been the reserve of the right?

      Ziocaine fries brains. You don't need it..

    • Here we go again:

      FACT : Circumcised men can still contract and pass on STDs/AIDs

      FACT : STDs/AIDs clinics recommend condoms even if one is circumcised because believing circumcision lowers the risk, is DANGEROUS!!!

      FACT : In circumcision clinics in Africa, the patient leaves with big pack of CONDOMS and the information they've been given on STDs/AIDs

      FACT : Men circumcised as babies don't actually know if it is more or less pleasurable or whether it has prevented them from contracting STDs/AIDs

      Chinese, Hindu, South American peoples and a host of others are never mentioned in the pro-circumcision debate.

  • Why did the Israeli military kill 13-year-old Ma'moun al-Dam?
    • OlegR June 26, 2012 at 1:22 pm

      "Civillians get hurt in every war unfortunately"

      That's why the GC's exist. Israel PURPOSEFULLY encourages Israeli CIVILIANS to illegally settle in "territories occupied", thereby endangering them in the ongoing war of 1948, waged by Israel on what remained of Palestine after Israel was Declared independent of Palestine. Israel even allows its illegal settlers to be armed, thereby turning them into belligerents who have no protection under the Laws of War.

      The Qualifications of Belligerents
      Article 1.

      The laws, rights, and duties of war apply not only to armies, but also to militia and volunteer corps fulfilling the following conditions:

      To be commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;

      To have a fixed distinctive emblem recognizable at a distance;

      To carry arms openly; and

      To conduct their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.

      "War is an evil on it’s own there is no other way to discuss war
      but in terms of where the lesser evil lies

      What bullsh*te. The lesser evil is not to wage un-necessary war at all, especially for someone else's territory.

      Furthermore the war "in Afghanistan" is not the war in Palestine.

      The war has never been in Israel BTW. No UNSC resolutions call for peace in Israel.

    • proudzionist777 June 26, 2012 at 7:06 am

      " I will attempt to answer your question once you prove that the civilian death rate is any higher than the civilian death rate in Afghanistan, where US and NATO forces also use aircraft and guided missiles in great number"

      A greater wrong and a lesser wrong have something in common pz777

      They're BOTH wrong

      (wondering what there is to be 'proud' of, sure isn't logic)

    • PS to June 25, 2012 at 1:07 pm

      " city, in the hills of Judea and in the streets of Jerusalem."

      I guess the speaker hasn't ever bothered to read THIS!!!. But if he had and by his position one might assume he had must have, surely he wouldn't have the audacity to stand in front of the UN and LIE?



      Or would he?

    • And he shall judge between the nations and reprove many peoples, and they shall beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift the sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore


      The promised destiny for mankind is the establishment of the humane pure life and this will come when justice is pervasive across the globe and every single human being will enjoy respect and dignity. That will be the time when mankind’s path to moral and spiritual perfectness will be opened and his journey to God and the manifestation of God’s divine names will come true. Mankind should excel to represent God’s “knowledge and wisdom”, His “compassion and benevolence”, His “justice and fairness”, His “power and art” and His “kindness and forgiveness”. These will all come true under the rule of the Perfect Man, the last Divine Source on earth Hazrat Mahdi, Peace be upon him, an offspring of the Prophet of Islam, who will re-engage and Jesus Christ, Peace be upon him and other pious men will accompany him in the accomplishment of this grand universal mission. And this is the belief in Entezar, awaiting patiently for the Imam to return, waiting with patience for the rule of goodness and the governance of the best he promises. Which is a universal human notion and which is a source of nations’ hope for the betterment of the world.

      They will come and with the help of righteous people and true believers will materialize the man’s long-standing desires for freedom, perfectness, maturity and security and tranquility, peace and beauty. They will come to put an end to war and aggression and present the entire knowledge to the world as well as spirituality and friendship to the whole world.

      BTW guess who said this:

      Inscribed on the walls outside this building is the great Biblical vision of peace: “Nation shall not lift up sword against nation. They shall learn war no more.” These words were spoken by the Jewish prophet Isaiah 2,800 years ago as he walked in my country, in my city, in the hills of Judea and in the streets of Jerusalem.

    • proudzionist777 June 25, 2012 at 12:26 pm

      Thanks for that pz777. Unfortunately accidents do happen, especially when one is limited to primarily home made un-guided rockets.

      Can you, without resorting to using Hasbara nonsense, explain the incredibly high civilian kill ratio achieved by Israel with all its fantastic guided, pinpoint accurate, high tech, US funded, human slaughtering equipment? Perhaps you could start with the incident in this article.

    • seafoid June 24, 2012 at 5:10 pm

      "Why does a dog lick its bollocks? Because it can"

      Nope. Because it needs to clean itself and no one else will do it for them after they're weened.

      On the other hand, Israel has yet to be weened off of illegally acquiring Palestinian territory and the means to do it, US Military Aid.

    • Mayhem June 24, 2012 at 10:14 pm

      "Innocent until proven guilty’ is the normal way to deal with matters such as this"

      Welcome Mayhem,

      so nice of you to drop in and show us just how far from normal Israel is, thanks so much.

      "With nobody impartial on the ground to properly assess what happened"

      The IDF aren't impartial? Who'd have thought?

      " we are left to the wild ruminations of the propagandists."

      Yes the usual Israeli Firsters have dropped in with some rather wild ruminations

    • OlegR June 24, 2012 at 11:20 am

      You're right. It looks very much like strafing from a fighter aircraft or helicopter canon.

      BTW why haven't you broached the question? Why did the Israeli military kill 13-year-old Ma’moun al-Dam OlegR?

    • OlegR June 24, 2012 at 11:34 am

      You can prove your allegation ... yes? It would be a shame if you can't. Especially after all your efforts here. Without, you'll have only shown readers what vile people Israel has rooting for it.

      Defeating yourself is a bizarre past time, take much practice?

    • Originals OlegR ?



  • Pro-Israel lobby tries (and fails) to spin TIAA-CREF divestment
    • "What do you mean 'see to work'?"
      "Well, yer honors, if I couldn't see someone who was desperately trying to be seen. Leaping up and down, wearing a bright jacket. Waving their arms about and screeching through a loud hailer, how was I supposed to be able to see to work?"
      "Destroying palestinian stuff? What's to see? No one sees that!"
      "Oh, it was only Palestinian stuff. I see what you mean. I think?"
      "It's palestinian and you don't see anything and you don't think!"
      "I don't?"
      "Of course you don't! 64 years of Israeli politicians and apologists haven't. We don't. The US senate doesn't. What suddenly makes you think you should? "
      "But the excuse we're giving about not seeing her. It has a basic flaw, don't you see?
      "See what?"
      "The flaw!"
      "What flaw?"

  • Announcing the 'New Yorker' parody fiction contest -- put your spin on history!
    • I walked quietly up to uncle Jacob who was sitting on a rock on the side of the hill, looking over what we'd accomplished that day. A book lay at his feet. Spine broken. It's partly burned, tortured pages flapping and flying away in the evening breeze, over the eerily glowing embers of the old Palestinian olive grove.

      "We did well eh" I always enjoyed nights like this

      " "

      His silence told me more than I wanted to know. I tried to avert the direction I knew things were about to go, "Look at it uncle Jacob. Quite a sight in the sunset. Beautiful."

      " "

      By that I knew this was going to go in only one direction "Ok uncle Jacob, what is .... uh .... was the book about?"

      "UNSC Resolutions against Israel" he sighed. "Ever read 'em?"

      I shuffled uncomfortably, thinking I must work harder to overcome the way I shuffle uncomfortably when I hear anything beginning with UN. Damn unsettling when you're talking to your 'un'cle. Even more 'un'settling that it's 'un'settling and 'un'comfortable

      I tried not to stammer. "Uh? No u u u u n ... Jacob. I er...uh... haven't. What're they about?" I replied, thinking as I did of early life in NY and how I'd always found it difficult lying to my uncle.

      He slowly turned to face me, sighing again. Louder. Deeper. With an impatient edge I could feel. His eyes fixed on mine "You know what they're about". I began to sweat.

      "I remember thinking at the time, I gotta get this cold sweating thing under control. Any way, I never did get it under control because uncle Jacob was right and we all knew it. That's the night I stopped stuttering and when your mother and I decided we'd be raising Brooklyn kids. Now go to sleep and don't bother your mother. Uncle Jacob and I are gonna go play bowls at Melody Lanes"

      "Dad.... tomorrow, can we make a card to Mohammad Alsaafins family to celebrate Palestinian Independence day?"

    • The air was tense.

      Past tense.

      It was after all 64 years ago.

      A momentous event was about to bound through the vomitory and onto the stage of Palestine's age olde theatre of war.

      The 2,000 years since the Roman era, a period where Arabs and Jews lived together as Palestinians. A period where Palestine, its territories, its people and their existence had been under the rule of numerous occupying powers. The longest occupation in history and by far the longest period in the history of the Jewish people in the region as Palestinian Jews, was about to draw to an end.

      The LoN Mandate for Palestine was finally about to come to an end as we travel back thru the corridors of time, down the halls of history. Weaving our way through wars, conflict, bloodshed, propaganda. Wading through 64 years of nonsensical bullsh*te until we stand, at a closed door.

      We huddle closely, silently in the doorway and listen intently to a barely perceptible conversation ...... someone is speaking

      "We accepted the UN Resolution, but the Arabs did not. They are preparing to make war on us. If we defeat them and capture western Galilee or territory on both sides of the road to Jerusalem, these areas will become part of the state. Why should we obligate ourselves to accept boundaries that in any case the Arabs dont accept?"

      "Because Mr Ben-Gurion, our own Rabbi Silver has already stated at the UNSC on Friday, 19 March 1948, that //“The setting up of one State was not made conditional upon the setting up of the other State.”// "

      "So what?"

      "Well David, this is serious, you can't make a Rabbi look like a liar, because he told them not once, but TWICE! Again on the 19 March 1948 . // " The statement that the plan proposed by the General Assembly is an integral plan which cannot succeed unless each of its parts can be carried out, is incorrect. This conception was never part of the plan. Indeed, it is contrary to the statement made by the representative of the United States during the second session of the General Assembly. The setting up of one State was not made conditional upon the setting up of the other State. Mr. Herschel Johnson, representing the United States delegation, speaking in a sub-committee of the Ad Hoc Committee on the Palestinian Question on 28 October 1947, stated, in discussing this very matter in connexion with economic union: “The element of mutuality would not necessarily be a factor, as the document might be signed by one party only.” // "

      "Oh. OK let's say just didn't accept UNGA res 181 because UNGA resolutions aren't binding" spluttered David Ben-Gurion

      "But you just said we did and on Friday, 5 March 1948 our own Rabbi Silver told the UNSC // "we accepted the decision which appeared fair and reasonable to the United Nations”// and that //“We feel under the obligation to make our position unmistakably clear. As far as the Jewish people are concerned, they have accepted the decision of the United Nations. We regard it as binding, and we are resolved to move forward in the spirit of that decision"// "

      "He what?" exclaimed Ben-Gurion, his hair frizzling out to twice its usual friz.

      "He had to David. So we could be accepted into the UN."

      "WTF are you babbling about?" yelled Ben-Gurion, whose hair now seemed to be attempting to rip itself out by the roots

      "David, UNGA Resolution 181 says this, //"F. ADMISSION TO MEMBERSHIP IN THE UNITED NATIONS

      When the independence of either the Arab or the Jewish State as envisaged in this plan has become effective and the declaration and undertaking, as envisaged in this plan, have been signed by either of them, sympathetic consideration should be given to its application for admission to membership in the United Nations in accordance with article 4 of the Charter of the United Nations. "// " ... Didn't you read it?

      "WTF. Why didn't someone tell me?" Ben-Gurion seethed, neck engorged with irate Jewish DNA filled blood, hair flapping like an Albatross chick learning how to fly. Suspended by his flapping hair, his two feet were now two feet off the floor by a good six inches.

      "So. You didn't read it David."

      "OK. Then we won't mention borders. Solved. Next!" Self satisfied, David Ben-Gurion mopped his brow and sat back in his chair

      "Er Mr Ben-Gurion... States don't mention borders in their declaration. Don't you remember what you just said about America's Declaration? So you're refusing to do something you don't have to do. Why? It doesn't make sense!"

      "That's LOGIC!!!" Snapped Ben-Gurion, now curled up in the foetal position in his chair, slowly breaking out in a cold sweat and beginning to shake

      "We must abide by UNGA res 181 to become a UN Member, Mr Ben-Gurion"

      "But. But. But .... that's more logic!" wimpered Ben-Gurion, convulsively retching and shivering. "Not fair!

      "Yes it is Ben. It is logic and fair. Remember, we're Jewish, famous for our logic and fairness"

      "We are?"

      "Yes Mr Ben-Gurion. We are."

      "So we should just...?"

      "Right David! We're glad you've seen the light!"



    • It took all his effort and energy. But he did it. He'd blinked again. He'd opened his eye again. For just a few milliseconds. Slightly longer than the first time

      "A dot and a dash" he thought. "Now if I can get the time between them down from an hour and a half to less than a second.." Smug with success, he bent to the task of trying to remember morse code while he waited for someone to come into the room who might notice a blink.

      An hour went past, or maybe a day, a week. He wasn't sure, when "What was that? ...... Footsteps coming down the passage?" His mind raced through a jumble of dots and dashes he'd need to blink to say.. "Uh....... Oh sh*te! What am I gonna say? I need a bed pan?"

      Closer they came, sounding like the .. his heart sank .. "the janitor. The janitor never comes in. Oh well, practice some more psychokinesis." Though he hadn't seen anything except a few milliseconds of the ceiling in two recent blinks, he was sure the door handle had almost wriggled yesterday when the janitor passed.

      Deep in concentration on the handle again it suddenly dawned on him just how long it'd take to write his biography, in morse code, by blinking.

      Another indeterminable time passed til his thoughts were awakened by the faint fluttering sound of wings and an equally faint, soothing breath of air on his face. "What was tha.?" What was it?

      He concentrated hard and blinked. In the tiny flash of sight he saw a small, remarkable looking creature. It radiated a soft light and it was sitting on his nose, looking straight at his closed eyes. "A pixie? An angel? A demon? Did I just see what I thought I just saw? Doesn't matter. M U S T blink morse code!"

      "Hi, Ariel" the little creature said in a cheery, somehow seductively manner, warming her dainty bare feet on the bridge of his nose. "How're you doin' ?"

      "It... it knows my name?" he thought. I wonder if it even knows morse code.

      "No need!" said the cheery little creature with a laugh as she slid, wispy dress flying, legs wide apart, down the bridge of his nose, where she sat astraddle. "Morse schmorse. I, can read, your mind!"

      "You can what?" He thought

      "I......c a n .... r e a d .... y o u r .... m i n d! I'm the BiograFairy. Kind of like a TroothFairy .. for extractions that're put into books!"


      "The BiograFairy. Here to help you. Set up a web page. Online we can instantly tell the world the truth

      "Oh. But if you can read my mind, you'll know if I'm telling the truth or lying, right?"

      "Right! Now where shall we start Mr Sharon?....

      ...Mr Sharon. Where would you like to start?

      ..Mr Sharon?

      .....Ariel, where would you like to ..... er start?

      Mr Sharon?

      Sir.. ... your biography. Was it something I said?"


  • US Jewish official defends double standard: In Israel, immigrants 'challenge Jewish character of the state'
    • The Freds, Hopmis & their friends who drop in and do such a great job of teasing out the illogical hypocrisy of their own arguments, is most welcome

  • Obama adviser freaks out over BDS (Dersh calls Alice Walker neo-Nazi terrorist)
    • ColinWright June 22, 2012 at 2:39 am

      "Is it considered a breach of legal ethics to openly urge a course of criminal conduct? Could a motion to debar Dershowitz on these grounds be filed?"

      At a glance, yes.

    • Ziocaine - from the fruits of the Hasbara, distilled for over a century. A powerful mind & morality altering drug administered in support of the Zionist Federation's Greater Israel project and its illegal activities.

      Ziocaine should never be taken by humans without several oceans of salt

      Ziocaine has been shown to turn the brains of even the brilliant lawyer Alan M Dershowitz into a poisonous, seething, illogical mush. Effectively wiping away the basic tenets of Judaism which forbid false accusation, lies and theft. Rendering him incapable of remembering the most important basic element of the law, legality.

      "...copyright laws, which are designed to encourage the promotion of literature"

      Copyright laws are actually designed to encourage the legal promotion of literature to ensure authors are paid their royalties.

      Ziocaine. Take it and you too will be able see words where they do not exist in the Balfour Declaration and the LON Mandate for Palestine. International Law, the UN Charter, numerous UNSC Resolutions, Conventions, statements by the Israeli provisional Government confirming Israel's borders of May 15th 1948 and most importantly basic maths and common logic will disappear before your eyes. Even copyright law will be forever changed.

  • 'WaPo' senior editor doesn't bat an eye at Israeli defense minister's claim that Iran 'waited 4,000 years to have a nuclear bomb'
  • The Case for Israel (Studies): It’s not hasbara. Honest.
  • Why I am using 'Israel firster' again
    • hophmi June 20, 2012 at 5:33 pm

      " I said that IN THE WEST right now, terrorism is perceived as being a major export from the Arab world,"

      Folk can see what you wrote. Now you're showing readers you're a liar. Not un-common for an Israel firster.

  • 'New Yorker' story recycles Israeli propaganda on death of Gazan family in 2006
    • Wiki? Hilarious, its editorial policies don't require truth or fact, but second hand opinion, entered by the third hand of the editors. An encyclopedia it isn't, especially when it comes to the I/P issue.

      At the top of the page

      <a href=" "The neutrality of this article's title, subject matter, and/or the title's implications, is disputed."

      The links go to Israeli news sites and not the German paper. A search of the German paper shows no article. No interview.

      Then we have your two cameras... WOW!!! How very observant you are. AMAZING!!! So observant you fail to notice that this footage is a shot of a ...... TELEVISION SET!!

      "Look at the still pic at the beginning of Adam’s piece. Huda is on her feet."

      She is SITTING on the slope of a sand dune Sitting with her legs crossed ('scuse me folks) you Ziocaine addled moron!

      "The camera is a good 6 feet above her for a very effective top-down angle."

      She is SITTING WITH HER LEGS CROSSED in front of a small sand dune which can be previously seen at 2:14 in this video Her father's corpse is also laying on the slope of the dune.

      The cards can be clearly seen previously here in this third (a pro-Israeli propaganda video)

      " At one point in her grief she sort of vainly brushes the sand from off her shirt and face"

      You claim sitting is standing. You claim a video shot of a news program on a television set is a second camera. You claim "..the playing cards – these are not shown in the videos", when they clearly are in the video (4th video). Then anguish is vanity.

      Finally, your analytical talents are very similar to one Samuel T

    • giladg June 19, 2012 at 6:08 pm

      Could have something to do with retaliation to recent indiscriminate Israeli attacks, 64 years occupying Palestinian territory, illegal annexation, illegal settlements, dispossession, territorial theft, refusal to adhere to the UN Charter, International Law, hundreds of UNSC resolutions.

      As to the 40 rockets and mortars being fired into Israel. How do you know they were fired into Israel? Israel says it has no borders with Palestine. 40 rockets and mortars pails into insignificance when compared to the hundreds of thousands of tonnes of Israeli explosives fired on Gaza, the thousands of Palestinian civilians killed, the millions of stateless Palestine refugees because of Israel's refusal to allow RoR or Palestinian Independence.

      Most rockets fired by the Palestinians actually land in territory Israel had illegally acquired by war by 1949, never legally annexed to Israel.

      You do realize that hundreds of thousands of Israeli citizens have been duped into believing they're living in Israeli territory. Ripped off by being sold land in territory which has never belonged to Israel, unwittingly building their homes and livelihoods and lives in territories "outside the State of Israel".

      Hundreds of thousands of Israeli civilians abused by successive Israeli Governments to create illegal facts on the ground through encouraging them to ILLEGALLY be in occupied territories and allowing Israeli civilians to be armed in occupied territories, thereby making them valid military targets, endangering them and their families.

      Hundreds of thousands of Israelis forced into military service in order to illegally acquire territory "outside of the State of Israel". Feeding them lie after lie after lie until they believe the bullsh*te they've been told.

      What sort of Govts have they been who'd follow such a course of deception for so long and what sort of people would support such governments? Only two words spring to mind. One of those words is 'fools'

  • Rebranding Israel
    • American June 18, 2012 at 1:23 pm

      For your enjoyment

    • Lorna S June 19, 2012 at 2:37 pm

      "None of these responses are worthy of reply"

      Yet you have

      "Invective, ad hominem attacks, snap judgments, and general refusal to address the issues rather than attack the writer: none of these constitute informed dialogue."

      I agree

      "The writers on this blog are like the five year olds throwing sand in the sand box, saying “You stink”. If throwing around personal insults makes you feel good, be my guest. I’ll wait for some informed and intelligent responses before I waste more time on people who think their prejudices are worthy of attention and are the most important statements they can make. "

      Oh... Say.... wasn't it you who just said "Invective, ad hominem attacks, snap judgments, and general refusal to address the issues rather than attack the writer: none of these constitute informed dialogue."

      Lemme know when you come up with some informed dialogue preferably with some provenance(example), because your first post was filled with 'invective, ad hominem attacks, snap judgments, and general refusal to address the issues'.

      Now in case you missed it, the issue here is: Israel desperately trying to re-brand itself in order to cover for it's numerous breeches of International Law, the UN Charter and conventions.

    • Mayhem June 18, 2012 at 8:43 am

      "No need to worry about the facts – just label any problematical assertions as ‘hasbara’, the perfect excuse and cop-out when all else has failed"

      Go ahead ...... try it in an open ended debate ..... that is until you fail to provide credible sources, twist or replace actual wording, fail to answer a question honestly, make a false accusation or become abusive.

    • Arnon Shwantzinger Too June 17, 2012 at 4:40 pm

      "What is to be gained by labeling one country as fascist, when all nominally-democratic countries (across the board) are adopting similar fascist tactics within their own borders?

      Many of them doing it to people who's territory they have illegally acquired by war, illegally annexed and are illegally settling and who they have occupied for 64 years?

      Israel's separation wall keeps Palestinians out of THEIR OWN territory, not Israeli territory.

    • Krauss June 17, 2012 at 5:26 pm

      "as long as Hamas remains a big piece of the puzzle .... You need a clear civil rights movement, and as long as Hamas remains a big piece of the puzzle, it will be very easy for the other side to smear(and rightly so), hence the delay."

      Hamas was a legally, democratically elected government to territories under the occupation of Israel. Any Government of an occupied territory will very likely be harsh out of necessity in order to resist the Occupying Power and prevent collaboration. Throughout history there are plenty of examples of similar behaviour by the occupied.

      E.g., Jewish forces resisted the British, resorted to terrorism, executed traitors, killed innocent Jews working in the King David Hotel. On achieving statehood, Jewish terrorists became Israeli politicians, leaders.

      " it will be very easy for the other side to smear(and rightly so), hence the delay"

      LOL The other side smears automatically ANYONE who gets in the way of a Greater Israel. They don't give a F^&K! In recent a joint press conference at the White House, Netanyahu immediately turned around after Obama had spoken and told the most outrageous and blatant lies, completely ignoring what Obama had said, even changing Obama's words. In effect spitting in the US President's face. If Obama had any gumption he'd have corrected him on the spot. He didn't, because the US senate ultimately controls the President and the Senate is in the Zionist's pocket

      "the delay" is Israel's. Always has been. Despite the two British White Papers explaining the Balfour declaration, the Zionists kept on inserting 'State' and; despite the Zionist Federation agreeing that it would have no part in the governing of Palestine, they were putting in place the structures for governing the 'state' they were never promised.

      Israel has delayed the adoption of UNSC resolutions by quibbling over words that have no effect on the final meaning (the & all). It keeps every legal argument going because as long as the matter isn't finalized there is no resolution or judgement. When there is finally a resolution or judgement, Israel ignores it.

      The Jewish State was recognized, with terrorists as leaders, recognized and accepted into the UN whilst Israeli forces were outside of Israel, engaged in a war over territories it was determined to keep, "outside the State of Israel". After being accepted into the UN Israel immediately claimed territories under occupation and openly threatened to ignore the UN Charter. It has since carried out that threat, disrespecting the Sovereign territory of its neighbouring states.

      Hamas is not the problem, it's a reaction to 64 years of Israeli lawlessness.

    • "But I do think that the process of getting there will be longer than most think unless the Palestinians do a dramatic turnaround"

      Again? The Palestinians have tried everything. Israel has tried NOTHING! Made no concessions what so ever. NONE. NIL. Everything BUT the steps necessary for a peaceful coexistence with the Palestinians.

      Instead the Jewish State has taken more and more, demanded more and more, including demands without any legal basis what so ever. Continuing to dispossess, illegally settle, illegally annex, illegally instituting Israeli civil law in non-Israeli territories. Ignoring hundreds of UNSC resolutions.

      The Palestinians have offered to forgo their right to territories outside the State of Israel, acquired by war by 1949. Offered to GIVE Israel 50% of the Palestinians rightful territories, to the '67 Armistice Demarcation Lines. Israel wants more.

      The ONLY thing saving Israel from the full effects of the Laws it is obliged to uphold, is the US veto vote in the UNSC and that is what needs do "a dramatic turnaround".

  • The betrothal ritual
    • American June 17, 2012 at 6:23 pm

      "these Rabbis and others who are so ‘in love’ with Israel….why don’t they live there, move there?

      Herlz didn't live in the region, although in his life time he could have lived anywhere in Palestine. The Zionist Federation wasn't even from the region (moving to Palestine in 1936) and at the time of the Zionist Federation's founding, its members could have all immigrated and lived anywhere in Palestine. They didn't for the same reasons as today. Israel needs Jews in the diaspora for

      A) Outside financial support B) lobbyistas & voters for protection against breaking the UN Charter/International Law/GCs. Especially maintaining the US veto vote (the only reason I can see for Israel being in the UN today)

  • 44 Senators, including many Democrats, sign AIPAC letter to Obama against Iran negotiations
  • 100,000-strong Zionist youth brigade join settler opposition to Ulpana eviction
    • "the Land of Israel" a magical fantasy land, bearing no resemblance to the actual sovereign territory belonging to the State of Israel and having no legal meaning what so ever.

      It's hilarious stuff. Just make it up ... anything ... anything at all

  • Why is Obama meeting with a man who called him 'Neville Chamberlain'?
  • Israeli navy attacks international observers off the coast of Gaza
  • Palestinian Bureau of Statistics: 262,000 Israeli settlers in East Jerusalem, living in 26 illegal settlements
  • Medal of Freedom for Shimon Peres maintains White House blind spot on Israel
  • Israeli school exam warns Jewish girls not to 'hang around with' Arabs
  • Video: Israeli officer throws stones and shoots live ammo at Palestinian protesters
    • Fredblogs June 13, 2012 at 6:21 pm

      Fred, the Palestinians are occupied. They have a RIGHT under the UN Charter, Conventions and Law to resist the occupying power. Israel has agreed to the Charter, Law and Conventions.

      The Occupying Power does NOT have a right to illegally acquire the territory it occupies or to illegally annexed territory it occupies or to illegally settle or illegally sell territory it occupies. Israeli civilians have no right what so ever to be in "territories occupied".

      Documentary evidence, // OlegR June 13, 2012 at 9:05 am "The officer in question was suspended from command pending an investigation in the matter. Just for the record."//, is not propaganda BTW.

  • 'Ha'aretz' article in Hebrew suggests that racism is inherent in Zionism
    • One can spend a lot of time arguing about Zionism, Judaism, Jews, what they are, what they mean, where we came from, what our DNA might be etc etc etc. Ditto Arabs, Palestinians, refugees etc etc etc.

      As of May 15th 1948, it's all rather meaningless in the eyes of the UN Charter, Conventions & Laws Israel is obliged to uphold. UNSC res 476 adequately covers the West Bank / East Jerusalem issue. It is based on the law. Only the US veto vote in the UNSC prevents the law having full effect.

      If Israel was not in breech of the law, the arguments would likely not be happening. The Israeli/Jewish lobbies would not be spending huge amounts of effort and money ensuring the US senate retains the US Veto vote

      If Israel was not in breech of the law (acting outside of Israel since May 15th 1948), the the UN would be fully supportive of Israel's sovereign rights, defense et al.

      If Israel was not in breech of the law, there'd be non of the "self-hating Jew" crappolla. There'd be no wedge being driven through the Jewish community as there is now. Never before have we been so divided and confused, because of one thing and one thing only: Israel's policies towards the Palestinians and their rightful territory. Policies which, in my opinion, are based on Deuteronomy 20:15 and the Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel //THE STATE OF ISRAEL will be ... based on freedom, justice and peace as envisaged by the prophets of Israel//

      There's no mention of democracy anywhere in the Declaration, there is however mention of a constitution under which a Government was to have been elected. In 64 years, Israel has never been able to reconcile being a democracy and being a Jewish State. Instead there has been a permanent state of emergency since 1948 and an ever growing polarization of the Jewish people.

  • 80 refugees are rounded up as Israel's Interior Minister declares, 'this country belongs to the white man'
    • Fredblogs June 13, 2012 at 6:30 pm

      "Most of the Israelis were born in Israel. "

      If Israel has no borders with Palestine, how do you know? 1/3rd of the territory Israel claims as its own has never been legally annexed to Israel, is not legally recognized as Israeli, was illegally acquired by war.

      "The “natives” were given the option of remaining in a country (original U.N. borders) with a slight Jewish majority",

      Strange, the natives who chose to flee the violence, (a right) have never been allowed to return. Also a right.

      "with another country (the original borders of the proposed Arab state) with a majority Arab population right next door. They rejected that offer"

      Not obligatory.

      Israel DID take the offer, admitted it did not depend on the Arabs also declaring a state, declared per the offer, was recognized per the offer, admitted to the UN per the offer and has since been dispossessing Palestinians " outside of the State of Israel" for 64 years in contradiction of the offer and the Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel obliging Israel to adhere to the UN Charter which requires all members to adhere to International Law and any conventions it has ratified.

    • The shining light keeps dimming itself

  • Palestinian footballer fighting for his life is not a story, but Netanyahu's football injury is
  • Richard Falk: No issue needs more open debate than moral and political cost of I/P policy (going back to USS Liberty!)
    • OlegR says:
      June 11, 2012 at 7:14 pm

      (You are not idiots that choose other idiots or thieves to rule you, you are actually oppressed and lied to by dark forces beyond your imagination and you have to oppose them)

      If you say so... Humans have a choice, believe without question. Or question. When you question the Hasbara, it falls to pieces every time

  • The things I miss (confessions of an activist)
  • NJ Republican candidate for Congress spent election day in Israel, meeting with Netanyahu
    • I've been asking for about 55 years where G-/0d was during the Holocaust. The answers have been to anything but the question.

      Perhaps the weirdest was when I was about 10 or 11 yrs. An apoplectic, bulging eyed, "How dare you even ask such a question?" spat at me. For some reason the image of a paddle for churning milk stuck in my mind. Stir with it and you get butter. If not, why are there paddles for churning milk?

      Maybe I'm just a stirrer.

  • 'Of course' -- Abbas will return to UN to try to become non-member state
    • Fredblogs June 10, 2012 at 2:29 pm

      "It would also break the ICC. Since it would become like most UN bodies, a forum for expressing anti-Semitic hatred against Israel instead of doing the job they were chartered for"

      Under the UN Charter, when states act outside of their internationally recognized sovereign extent, the UN and its bodies have a DUTY to call those errant states to account. Israel is one such state. It has been acting outside of its legally recognized sovereign extent from the day it was declared.

    • Talkback June 9, 2012 at 6:35 pm

      "I still don’t get why Abbas didn’t try to get Palestine recognized by the UN first and then tried to become a member. "

      The UN doesn't recognize states, the International Community of Nations does, one by one, unilaterally, in their own time. There is no voting mechanism for recognition. A majority might or might not be reached. It is similar to a convention 'passing into' Customary International Law when a majority of Nations have adopted it. There is no voting mechanism. Countries' ratification of or accession to conventions, is one by one, unilaterally, in their own time. Once ratified by a majority, conventions become Customary International Law. International Law on the other hand, is formulated and voted upon. All law is binding.

      There is one proviso in conventions. When ratifying, a State can register Reservations which stand for that country even when a convention has passed into Customary International Law. This falls under the right of persistent objection. Accession has no reservations.

      When a majority of states recognize, the state may then refer to the UNSC which in turn recommends (or not ) acceptance as a UN Member State. The UN then accepts (or not) already recognized states recommended by the UNSC.

      Palestine has already been recognized by a majority of the International Community of States. Only the US UNSC veto vote prevents Palestine's UN Membership. Without the Zionist lobbies' stranglehold on the US senate, this issue would likely have been over long ago.

      For the record.. The PLO, as representative of the people of Palestine, was granted observer status (not as a state)

  • Story of forced searches of travelers' emails goes viral
    • Fredblogs June 5, 2012 at 11:58 pm

      The reason Israel checks is because the publicity they get from excluding people is nowhere near as bad as if one of these idiotic activists managed to get their fool selves injured or killed at some demonstration"

      By an Israeli bullet, gas canister or having their head smacked by an IDF rifle?

      Israel doesn't even care about the Israeli citizens it assists to settle illegally in "territories occupied". There GCs are there to protect all civilians. Purposefully committing a war crime on one's own citizens is kinda twisted don't you think?

    • BrianEsker June 5, 2012 at 8:09 pm

      "Most folks understand the need for ... defensible borders"

      Israel has no more right to 'defensible borders' than its neighbours. BTW the words 'defensible borders' don't appear in ANY International Law or in any UNSC Resolution. Nor in any Armistice Agreement or Peace Agreement or in any convention.

      The term is an Israeli propaganda invention.

      So what do other countries do when they intercept suspected saboteurs, provocateurs or spies?"

      Oh, so that's what these women were. You have an inside source...AMAZING!

    • dimadok June 5, 2012 at 3:35 pm

      It is never late to learn dimadok.

      US law is not Israeli law


      it was not her laptop or storage device being searched

  • Netanyahu bats away Dershowitz's suggestion of settlement freeze
    • hophmi June 5, 2012 at 3:18 pm

      "Your denial of my people’s right of self-determination shows your real aim"

      Uh? Israel was declared . Came into effect May 15th 1948. A Jewish State. Every day since, Israel has been "outside of the State of Israel" in Palestine. Neither Israel or Jews or anyone else has a right to illegally acquire Palestinian or any other territory, illegally settle, illegally annex.

  • Heading for the exits?
    • hophmi June 4, 2012 at 4:29 pm

      " maybe the reason they can’t put together a similar pro-Palestinian parade is because suicide vests aren’t as readily available in NYC"

      Uh? There's more, far better and cheaper materials available in the US for building suicide belts than any terrorist could possibly dream about scavenging for Palestine.

      Why bother with a suicide belt anyway? US citizens have a right to bear arms and quite regularly blow each other away with far more efficiency than any suicide vest.

      "I challenge you, and your critics here, to make an event promoting one positive thing about Palestine and the Palestinians. But you won’t do it"

      Er ... it happens all the time

      "You can’t escape your hatred of Israel"

      Says some Hasbara indoctrinate, who advocates Israel isolate itself further and further through ghastly ILLEGAL Government policies until it only has the US veto vote in the UNSC to protect it from the laws it obliged itself to uphold. A fool who cheers as successive Israeli Governments endanger the lives of Israeli citizens by encouraging them to illegally settle in "territories occupied".

      BTW .... Where's the 'hatred' in wanting one's homeland state to adhere to the law, it's own charter, the UN Charter and the basic tenets of Judaism, all of which would work to protect it were it to remain in its own territory instead of breaking International Law and the UN Charter.

  • Restraint
    • OlegR June 4, 2012 at 5:52 am

      "If they voted for Hamas in these last elections then they also bear some responsibility for this situation."

      And what 'if' they didn't. Collective punishment is illegal because civilians might not have voted for the regime in power. For example, the Palestinians didn't vote for the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, he was appointed by one Herbert Samuels. Odd isn't it, that the leader of the Palestinians was chosen by a Jew.

      BTW The UN Charter was adopted in large part because of what happened to Jewish folk under the Nazis. Yet here you are, advocating collective punishment. Hitler would have been so proud of you.

      ///”The Palestinian response to the establishment and expansion of Israel can be summed up in one word, restraint.”///

      "Bullshit, they fought it as best(or worst depends how you look at it) they could and lost , still losing in fact"

      By far the majority of Palestinians today have never taken up arms. Never fought anyone. Never been a suicide bomber. Never been in Hamas. Haven't dispossessed any Israelis. Didn't fight or commit any atrocities in 1920, 1947, 1948, 1967 etc etc. Didn't elect the leaders of the Arab States in 1948. 64 years ago they were babies, who had nothing to do with the person who's policies you now advocate, Hitler.

      All they have ever asked for is their RIGHTS under the law. No more, no less. They're the same rights all people have, even Israelis, were they to be invaded and dispossessed. Rights under the Laws and UN Charter Israel obliged itself to uphold. Rights that evolved in large part BECAUSE of what happen to our Jewish fellows under the Nazis.

      "since we are on the other side of their struggle we also have the right not to get ourselves blown up to bits"

      Then get the hell outta Palestine, go live in Israel. Stop illegally acquiring territory, illegal annexation, illegal settlements. Get Israeli citizens back into Israel. The GCs are there to protect Israeli civilians too. Successive Israeli Governments have done Israeli citizens no favours by encouraging them to be illegally in "territories occupied". Committing war crimes against Israelis is really quite twisted.

    • OlegR June 4, 2012 at 4:11 pm

      "Well that makes it ok to throw Fatah supporters of the rooftops then"

      Often happens that people considered to be traitors aren't treated with kid gloves

    • What really bothers me Samuel T, is that ANYONE would bother with regurgitating the holey Hasbara, when it can be shown to be illogical nonesense at every turn

      "Israel is known for dropping letter bombs advising civilians three days in advance that they will be targeting military outposts in a civilian area. They warn people to get out,, get to safety."

      Oh? Flee, flee, flee to another part of the war zone! How generous.

      Actually it's one of the most stupid pieces of propaganda I've ever heard. As if Palestinian militants aren't gonna read the leaflets.

      "Hey Mahmoud you shouldn't be reading that, it's only for civilians ............ what does it say BTW?"

      "It says we got three days to get outta here, 'cause the Israelis are coming with one of the best equipped and modern militaries in the world, with tanks, fighter bombers, guided missiles, naval artillery, fletchettes, phosphorus. You name it, they've got it ... "

      "So we've got a couple of days then."

      "Yeh ..... Pass me another one of them home made rockets."

      During Cast Lead, Israel had all means of innocent civilians fleeing the violence of the war zone blocked. Including the Egyptian border with Gaza, underthe 2005 agreement and the Peace Treaty with Egypt, thereby preventing civilians from fleeing a war zone.

      Geneva Convention 1V…Section II..Occupied territories..Art49…The Occupying Power shall not detain protected persons in an area particularly exposed to the dangers of war unless the security of the population or imperative military reasons so demand.

      Civilians could not even flee into the sea, because Israel controls Palestinian territorial waters.

      BTW The UNSC tells us Geneva Convention IV does apply. See where it says "a flagrant violation of the Fourth Geneva Convention ". Oddly enough UNSC 476 says almost the same as Iran, of the regime illegally in Jerusalem.

    • Samuel T June 3, 2012 at 9:18 pm

      "Can you imagine what would have happened if the UN declared Israel as a Nation..."

      The UN doesn't declare nations. It accepts them as members AFTER they have declared themselves, AFTER they have declared themselves and been recognized, AFTER they have declared themselves, been recognized and recommended as a nation state by the UNSC.

      Israel had been declared, recognized and accepted into the UN BEFORE it first claimed territory on 31st Aug 1949. Territory Israel had stated was "outside the State of Israel"

      "..and then shortly thereafter they were attacked by surrounding Countries in an offensive manoeuvre?"

      Nice conspiracy theory. The Israeli Govt says the Arab States attacked "Palestine" Palestine is not Israel. Israel is not Palestine. Israel is an INDEPENDENT Sovereign State. It cannot be in or a part of the non-self-governing territory of Palestine

      "AND then in defence of Israel.."

      Israel was defending military lines "outside of the State of Israel"

      "...and actually defeated the opposing forces.."

      Odd the Arab States prevented Israel from taking all of Gaza and all of Judea and Samaria. The Arab States stopped short of Israel's recognized borders.

      "... gaining more territory in the process?"

      It is inadmissible to 'acquire' territory by war. It is illegal to unilaterally annex territory

      A sovereign can 'restore' territory by war, but the territory must have been sovereign to the Israel. No Sovereign Israeli territory has ever been taken by war for it to be 'restored'.

      "How long would the United States tolerate rockets being fired into Civilian populated areas? "

      Is the US illegally acquiring someone else's territory? An Occupying Power illegally claiming the territory they occupy? Illegally annexing? Illegally dispossessing? Why is it your analogy has disintegrated?

      "Well, instead of imagining, how about thinking back to two atomic bombings against the cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki in Japan. Fat man and Little boy, August 1945. BOOM!"

      Er Hawaii was US territory... None of Palestine has ever been Israeli territory.

      "There I go again, confusing historical events with imagination. They are quite distinct aren’t they?"

      LOL. Your bullsh*te is the same delusional twaddle it always is.

  • Senate challenge to Obama on refugees came from Israel
    • giladg June 3, 2012 at 7:14 am

      "Remember that the Jews accepted the 1947 UN Partition Plan"

      Indeed, as "binding" according to the Jewish spokesman at the UNSC

      " Now please remind us who rejected that plan?"

      Irrelevant who rejected UNGA Res 181. The two parties were offered a chance to declare INDEPENDENCE. “The setting up of one State was not made conditional upon the setting up of the other State .”

      "The Palestinian geopolitical positions are all based on trying to hide and/or mask the mistake they made when they rejected this plan"

      A) It cannot be demanded that an entity declare 'independence'. It is completely against the notion of 'independence'. The Arab States were not obliged to accept a deal to give away half of Palestine, when such a deal was against the notions of self determination under the UN Charter. They had (and still have) the right of persistent objection going back to 1922 and the LoN Mandate.

      B) Even had they wanted to, the Arab States could not have declared 'independence' on behalf of the Palestinians when the LoN Mandate ended on the May 14th 1948. Jewish forces already controlled part of the area allocated for an 'independent' Arab State by the time the Mandate by May 14th 1948. One cannot be 'independent' unless one is completely free of all other control. Palestine in all its shapes and guises since the Roman era has never been free of the control in part or whole of some entity or another. Israel is the last "Occupying Power" in a long line.

      "It was only after the Arab armies invaded the Jewish State.."

      Er "Palestine" is not in Israel, Israel has never been in Palestine. It is impossible for an Independent Sovereign State to be in or a part of a non-self-governing territory. Prior to Israeli Statehood, Israel didn't officially exist. Palestine officially did exist. After Israeli Statehood was declared, Israel existed independent of all other entities, including what remained of Palestine.

      In order to say "the Arab States invaded Israel", Israel must have had BORDERS!!!! Otherwise, how does anyone know what parts of Israel were invaded???

      According to the Israeli Govt website, the Arab States invaded "Palestine" (first paragraph)

      "..did the entire episode of Palestinian refugees begin"

      Problem.... before May 15th 1948 Jewish forces under Plan Dalet began dispossessing non-Jews from areas within what was to have become the Jewish State and; outside of what was to become the Jewish state

      "So who should bare responsibility for the refugees"

      Simple, the country of return for not allowing them to return. The refugees fled and as civilians they had and still have, a right to return.

      "I believe it is the Arabs themselves"

      Why? The refugees didn't flee from the Arab States. They fled the violence. It's irrelevant why or who told them or who made them. They fled, they didn't fight anyone. They're protected persons under Customary Laws of War in place BEFORE Israel was ever declared and obliged itself to Customary International Law

      "An in case there are those who sometimes get confused with all the terminology …. Arab = Palestinians. Palestinians are Arabs. Palestinians are part of the Arab family"

      I guess there's simply no Arab Jews in Ziofantasyland.

      "It was the Arabs and Muslim armies who attacked in 1948 with the sole purpose of wiping the new Jewish state off the map"

      Where are the UNSC resolutions condemning the Arab Regional Powers for invading "Israel"? Fact is, there aren't any. As was their right under the UN Charter, they invaded Palestinian territory in order to protect it from Israeli forces already "outside the State of Israel"

      Your Hasbarrow is empty dude... always has been, always will be

  • 'Do you feel more Arab or more American?': Two women's story of being detained and interrogated at Ben Gurion
    • Linda J June 4, 2012 at 11:41 am


    • Fredblogs June 3, 2012 at 7:41 pm

      "She’s anti-Israel and the proof of that is readily available online"

      Uh? Anti occupation, anti illegally acquiring territory by war, anti illegal dispossession of civilians, anti illegal annexation, anti illegal settlements. None of which are 'anti Israel'. It's illegal whoever does it.

    • Fredblogs June 4, 2012 at 1:56 am

      "They just haven’t been allowed into Israel"


      "There is no right to enter any country that you aren’t a citizen of."

      Odd... Ever read UNSC res 476 ... Israelis do it every day. In fact Israelis, have been doing it for 64 years, illegally settling even.

    • Fredblogs June 3, 2012 at 7:24 pm "apparently you don’t even have to be Jewish, just have visited Israel to be denied entry into Saudi Arabia"

      Saudi Arabia and Israel are hostile entities.

      Israel has banned travel between Israel and hostile states since the emergency law of 1948 (Still in force. It prevented Israelis, both Jews and Arabs, from worshiping in Jerusalem whilst it was under Jordanian control).

      Saudi Arabia bans citizens and potential allies of Israel from entering Saudi Arabia.

      It isn't uncommon when states are hostile to each other. In fact it's quite NORMAL.

    • Fredblogs June 3, 2012 at 7:19 pm

      Scraping the bottom of the barrel looking for other instances doesn't make anything right Fred.

    • Fredblogs June 3, 2012 at 1:57 pm

      "it obviously wasn’t just because she was Arab. She was an Arab the first two times she visited and they let her in then"

      Well, no, not obvious at all. It's happened time and time again.

      "Re: Cat Stevens Joke.."

      "Joke" ?? There was a punch line? When will you stop deceiving yourself?

    • Fredblogs June 3, 2012 at 12:40 am

      " ...something was different about this time and the something was probably something in the e-mails. Possibly the conversations about getting around entry security checks. Possibly something she didn’t want to mention since it wouldn’t make Israel look as bad, or would make her look bad. Possibly her mouthing off, arguing, and asking questions"

      Possibly NONE of your speculations.

      "When Cat Stevens was flying to the U.S. they didn’t even let the plane land, they just had it turn around"

      The aircraft was diverted to Maine Bangor International Airport. Keep posting ... you help us illustrate just how eagerly Ziobots will write any olde [email protected]!

    • OlegR June 3, 2012 at 5:27 am

      " the “ordeal” that these girls went through would have been very similar
      is they were denied entry to US"

      Er ... if they were denied entry to the US on the same basis? Please elucidate......thx

    • Sheeeeesh ... Never had such questions or treatment even traveling to Arab States, despite having an unmistakeably Jewish name. I've always been treated with the utmost respect.

      I'm betting tho, I won't ever be let into Israel in its present state.

  • The crisis of Zionism
    • “[A] binational state protected by an Arab federation is nothing else than minority status within an Arab empire.”

      Like the numerous minority states in the USA...

  • 'Hath not a Palestinian eyes?': Protesters disrupt Habima performance at Globe
    • Samuel T May 30, 2012 at 3:06 am

      " What was the point of protest at a theatrical production? Are the Palestinians against Art? Drama?"

      LOL... You're either a complete moron or deliberately playing the stupid card

      "Where is the creativity?"

      Getting it in the news

    • Samuel T May 30, 2012 at 3:00 am

      "..information that is not remotely connected to this event"

      This event IS connected, what do you think the protestors were protesting, Shakespeare?

      " There are times and places for lawful assembly and demonstrating for personal rights while disregarding other peoples personal rights is arrogant and pointless"

      Uh? They weren't demonstrating for their personal rights. Meanwhile dispossessing non-Jews, illegal acquisition of their territory, illegal annexation, illegal settlements is not "disregarding other peoples personal rights"? AMAZING!!!

      "It was a private function."

      Tickets were sold to.... the public

      "Are you going to stand up at a relatives wedding reception and start ranting about Israel and Palestine? Would that be appropriate?"

      That would be a private function. BTW who was "ranting "?

      This form of protest is not a methodology of gaining people’s respect, it’s a demonstration of being disrespectful and abusing another person’s civil liberties"

      The Palestinians under occupation for 64 years, dispossessed et al is not being disrespectful and abusing another person’s civil liberties? AMAZING!!!

      "Flip the equation, make it a Palestinian theatre production, It still would not be an appropriate place to demonstrate"

      Nice try at 'flipping' there, you missed out on some key factors. "make it a Palestinian theatre" company who perform in illegally acquired Israeli territories, ILLEGALLY annexed Israeli territories and Israeli territories ILLEGALLY settled. Then it's flipped

      Say, can you name such a company ... thx ... I'll wait .....................................................................

      BTW what they be demonstrating against?

    • Fredblogs May 29, 2012 at 11:37 am

      "...some egomaniacal protester .."

      = someone with enough of a conscience & morals to stand up for and voice what they believe.

      "They didn’t have the right to stand up and block someone’s view of the play. That crossed the line"

      64 years of ILLEGALLY dispossessing non-Jews. 64 years of occupation. Illegally acquiring territory by war, illegal annexation, illegal settlements doesn't cross any lines? A play by a company supported by the state that has perpetuated these atrocities is more important?

      "In America, security would probably have tasered them all"

      Speculation of what might have happened is sooooooooo cute

    • Fredblogs May 29, 2012 at 2:26 pm

      ".. the King David hotel. It was British Military Intelligence HQ. As such, it was not a civilian target"

      A) The bombs were placed under the restaurant. The restaurant was not staffed by military. (BTW 19(?) Jewish folk were killed)

      B) There was allegedly a warning, yes? Let's presume this is true for a moment. 1) If it was only a military target, why be stupid enough to warn them? 2) But no one evacuated the building ............ so they let the bomb off anyway!

      As usual with the Israeli narrative, it simply never adds up. Somewhere there is always a gaping big hole in all the Hasbara.

    • Fredblogs May 29, 2012 at 11:32 am

      "I’m not defending the Israelis, I am attacking the protesters. There’s a difference"

      Oh OK. I'll keep it in mind. So when a person attacks Israeli Government policies, are they defending Hamas or terrorism? Are they antisemitic? Are they Anti-Israel? Pro-Palestinian?

      When a person points out there is are only accusations against the Iranian nuclear industry, but no evidence warranting an attack on Iran, are they defending the Iranian regime?

    • Fredblogs May 29, 2012 at 10:27 am

      "There’s a time and a place for protests and the middle of a play is neither the time nor the place."


      "At that point, you aren’t exercising your own right to free speech, you are disrupting someone else’s right to free speech"

      ?? Silent protest disrupts?

      " They should have arrested the lot of them and charged them to the full extent of the law"

      Uh huh. These are based on the Law ... UNSC Resolution 252 (1968) UNSC Resolution 267 (1969), UNSC Resolution 271 (1969), UNSC Resolution 298 (1971), UNSC Resolution 465 (1980), UNSC Resolution 476 (1980), UNSC Resolution 1860 (2009) …. Oh, and Israel’s annexation of the Golan was also condemned by the UNSC Res 497

      You have advocated collective punishment for innocent Palestinians in the past. Supporting the ILLEGAL actions of successive Israeli Governments isn't aiding and abetting?

  • Resume builders: Be a broken record on Iran, cheer authoritarians in Gulf
  • Israel lobby's favorite senator tries to erase Palestinian refugee status for millions
    • Fredblogs May 28, 2012 at 1:35 pm

      "that passport went to everyone in the region, not just to the Arabs"

      "everyone" who was a 'legal' citizen of Palestine.

      " when you said “Palestinian” you were just as likely talking about a Jew"

      More likely, pro rata, a non Jew. Never the less, either or both. All legitimate citizens of Palestine held Palestinian nationality.

      "So as to the question of when they were a separate people"

      Prior to the launching of the Zionist Federation's colonial enterprise, they were just Palestinian people, with different religions. The creation of Israel separated them.

      " is proof of exactly nothing."

      Oh dear. It proves their nationality prior to Israel being given on May 15th 1948, completely gratis, over half of 1947 Palestine.

    • Fredblogs May 28, 2012 at 1:42 pm

      " If all they have to look forward to is exile to Siberia, "

      Uh? The word used was "you". When 'you' can't comprehend a simple sentence OR 'you' need to adulterate what has been said in order to make sense of 'your' own nonsense, 'you' either need help OR 'you're' just another propagandist for a Greater Israel. The latter became apparent within two or three of 'your' posts. In which case help won't help.

      What 'you're' doing is affording the chance to show other readers just how ill-informed, stupid and dis-honest 'you' and 'your' kind are.



      BTW .... thx . Keep up the 'good' work

    • Fredblogs May 28, 2012 at 1:44 pm

      " They aren’t doing it because of any non-existent refugee status of the Jews, they are doing it because they like having more Jews in the country"

      Even this is a lie.. there are housing shortages in Israel while Israel has since 1948, been busy building "outside the State of Israel" and in "territories occupied"

    • Fredblogs May 27, 2012 at 2:55 pm

      "the Palestinian People were invented after the 6 day war"

      LOL. 'fraid not Freddy. Nice pic for ya!

      Apart from your nonsense being irrelevant to RoR, (UNGA res 194 and its definition don't mention Palestinians) , by your denial of the existence of the Palestinians as a people prior to 1967, you're also denying the longer history of Jewish existence in the region..... As Palestinian Jews. Longer than the Kingdom of David existed, longer that Israel has ever existed.

      You must be so proud..

  • US to differentiate between 'personally displaced' Palestinian refugees and their descendants
    • OR

      Where one automatically becomes a citizens of the country of refuge by being born in the country of refuge. They then have the full protection of the state even tho their parents are refugees.

    • playforpalestine

      "Hell, why not just sell Iran some nukes while we’re at it?"

      Oh, you're not Israeli?

    • playforpalestine May 30, 2012 at 9:45 am

      "You realize that the Arab states attacked Israeli settlements within what was the Mandate Palestine area, right?"

      Impossible. The Lon Mandate for Palestine expired BEFORE the Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel came into effect. The Arab States attacked Jewish forces outside of the State of Israel". They also fought armed (belligerent) Jewish settlers. Innocent Jews were also caught up in the conflict and as with any war there were undoubtedly some atrocities and collateral.

      "Israel never invaded those states"

      Odd, under the Egypt/Israel Peace treaty, Israel was required to first WITHDRAW from EGYPTIAN territories before peaceful relations resumed. Egytpt was not required to withdraw from ANY Israeli territories. No Israeli territories have ever been under the military control of any other entity.

      UNSC Res 497 Israel is the Occupying Power over the Golan, territory sovereign to Syria

      "IOW they were not fighting a defensive war"

      So where is the UNSC resolutions condemning the Arab States for attacking Israel? The moment Israel was Declared, the civil war pre declaration became a war waged by the State of Israel on what remained of Palestine. Under the UN Charter, the Arab States had every right as Regional Powers to defend Palestine from Jewish forces "outside of the State of Israel".

    • Hostage

      Thx for the Kosovo inf

      Here's an interesting dialogue ... Rabbi SILVER (Jewish Agency for Palestine) addressing the Security Council S/PV.26 25 March 1948 on General Assembly resolution 181 (II)

      "Nevertheless, reluctantly but loyally, we accepted the decision which appeared fair and reasonable to the United Nations"


      "We feel under the obligation to make our position unmistakably clear. As far as the Jewish people are concerned, they have accepted the decision. of the United Nations. We regard it as binding, and we are resolved to move forward in the spirit of that decision. Under the plan, there are dates to be met. We must assume that these dates will be met. We fully respect the authority kef the United Nations, but if it is unable to carry out its own decisions and, as a consequence, the Jewish community of Palestine is confronted with the threat of annihilation, it will be compelled by the considerations of sheer survival, not to speak of the preservation of its rights, to take all necessary measures which the situation will call for."

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