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Total number of comments: 7145 (since 2010-02-26 10:49:56)

talknic

An old Jewish guy in Oz. Tired of the fallacies surrounding the I/P issue We were given the territory for a homeland state, with more than enough room for every Jewish person on the planet, even today Since proclaiming its frontiers in the May 15th 1948 in the Israeli Government plea for international recognition, Israel has illegally acquired by force and occupied more and more territory outside of it's proclaimed and recognized Sovereign territory. None of which has ever been legally ceded to or legally annexed to Israel by any agreement or legal instrument The occupied have a right to violent resistance against armed citizens of the Occupying Power. However, no one has a right or excuse for committing acts of terrorism against innocent civilians. To that end: I condemn all forms of terrorism, murder and any other harmful crime by any individual, group, organization or state and; condemn any government, individual or organization who purposefully encourages the illegally settlement of territories held under occupation thereby purposefully endangering its own citizens by using them to create illegal facts on the ground Today the State of Israel continues to encourage Israeli civilians to create illegal settlements, illegal facts on the ground, breaking law that was adopted by the UN and International Comity in large part because of the treatment of our Jewish fellows under the Nazis. Law adopted to protect all civilians including those of an Occupying Power from the expected violent consequences of occupying another people and their territory Israel demands the swap of non-Israeli territory for non-Israeli territory so it can keep non-Israeli territory in a future settlement. There is no legal basis for the demand nor is there for the disarmament of a future Palestinian state. All states have equal right to self defense. Likewise, there is no legal basis for the demand to be recognized as the Jewish state. Israeli demands have no legal precedence or validity The Palestinians have no legal, moral or ethical obligation to forgo any of their legal rights. Negotiations mean only one thing, the Palestinians forgoing legal rights so Israel can benefit Were Israel to adhere to the law, it can easily protect itself, grow and prosper. It'd have no UN resolutions against it. No need to continuing to corrupt US politicians in order to maintain a UNSC veto vote. No need to lie to and endanger its citizens I've received too many threats for opposing Israel's policies towards the Palestinians, broken windows, graffiti'd walls, hate mail, I'd prefer to remain anonymous, if that's OK. Who I am is irrelevant. Reliable information is essential to informed dialogue towards resolving the I/P issue. Propaganda has no place in struggle for peace

Website: http://talknic.wordpress.com

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  • Passover has become little more than an act of communal hypocrisy
    • @ JeffB April 11, 2017, 2:44 pm

      // the borders of the Israel God has restored to us?//

      "In 2017 the former Mandate Palestine with the Jordan border adjustments, minus Gaza plus the Golan"

      Your God, who didn't bother to show up for the Holocaust ( or maybe s/he did ), is completely irrelevant to International Laws that Israel the state in its own words and undertakings is obliged to uphold

      The territories you mention were actually acquired by war
      Your so called 'God' is war
      You and your so called God are the problem

      Thanks for helping make that clear JeffB

      Keep up th' good work

  • Activists rebrand Brand Israel conference as 'Brand Apartheid'
  • 'This miracle, this gift, this jewel' -- Obama's ambassador to Israel declares he's a Zionist
    • @ echinococcus April 22, 2017, 2:10 am

      ."“Presence”. Look up the words . It’s exactly what you have been advocating since you started writing here"

      Strange. I have been advocating the need for a referendum/plebescite for over 5 years here at MW. I've shown you where. The links are still there for all to read.

      I've even described how the US was instrumental in large part for the notion of a plebiscite passing into Customary International Law. (the right to self determination)

      "Who gives a rat’s ass who they were and what they called or still call themselves? The unauthorized presence of invaders and squatters is the problem. Current. There are millions of these perpetrators on Palestinian soil."

      You flatly refuse to answer a reasonable and reasonably put question. Thanks for the debate. In respect to the unauthorised presence of invaders and squatters, I agree. I have been saying as much since I first posted on MW and a long time prior. Banned from The Guardian for challenging the ZioBots. Same for WikI/Pedia banned for daring to challenge the ZioBot infested re-writing of history

      // Let’s say there was a plebiscite, do you really think the Zionist enterprise would give a stuff? //

      "So, you expect the Zionists to get out by their own will, just because you plead well? "

      How you distilled that from what was written is nothing short of incredible. The Zionist enterprise couldn't give a rat's rrrrs about a plebiscite. They don't give a rat's rrrrs about International Law, the UN Charter or the most basic tenets of Judaism. A plebiscite means nothing to them. You're not dealing with an organization that cares what the Palestinians want.

      Now that’s totally insane. "

      Indeed it is and it's all your own making. It has absolutely nothing to do with what I wrote. The Zionist Movement's state will likely kick the shit out of the china shop rather than back down on anything. It's the Zionist Movement at the heart of the matter and it doesn't have a conscience

      "Or are you suggesting that nothing should be done because the only language they will understand is force?"

      They understand a lot more than force. The Zionist Movement have had over a century establishing networks, strategies, legal arguments, grooming people to put in the right places at the right time with the right backing to influence outcomes to suit their thieving objectives.

      I've just painstakingly tried explained why Israel cannot be prosecuted for crimes before its establishment and how they used that fact to Israewl's advantage. They duped the world into recognizing Israel while it was at war. Duped into recognizing Israel while it was at war in territory outside of the borders it announced in its plea for recognition. They were able to get Israel admitted to the UN while it was at war in other folks territories. Its leaders stated it would adhere to International Law. They lied. Force is only one aspect.

      "Finally we have a full exposure of what you have been defending all the time .."

      No dude, what we have is your fantasy. Take a chill pill

    • @ echinococcus April 22, 2017, 2:10 am

      "My a$$. You defend the ***unauthorized presence*** of invaders on Palestinian territory."

      Get a life. I haven't defended any invaders anywhere at any time.

      Your ability to accept reality needs working on

    • Talkback April 21, 2017, 4:59 am

      "Just have some pre state actors or precessor state illegaly acquire territory, then let them proclaim a new state on it and now as its Goverment inherently or officially declare that the territory is now the new state’s territory and, voila, the state’s territory’s was never illegaly acquired by the newly created state. "

      Correct from a legal POV. Also immoral, unethical, planned for from 1897, long before the Holocaust, against the basic tenets of Judaism, targeting not only Palestine but also specifically poor Jews for loans, specifically at interest on condition they put themselves on the front lines of the colonial conquest. If there is such a thing it surely qualifies as evil

      " It just fell legally into its hands."

      If you say so. I haven't. What I have said is that a State/person, cannot be indicted for a crime committed before it existed. It can only be prosecuted for the crimes it has committed and that the Jewish Agency and Zionist Federation legal teams would surely have been aware

    • @ echinococcus April 21, 2017, 10:07 am

      " .. “Inadmissible” means exactly inadmissible. Either it is inadmissible and the presence of even a single Zionist invader anywhere in Palestine cannot be condoned, or you condone it and to you it is admissible,"

      Correct and I've never condoned it. I can explain however why Israel can't be indicted for crimes committed before it existed.

      Answer this: Of the people who terrorized and dispossessed non-Jews prior to the recognition of the State of Israel, who of them can be prosecuted? Who of them can be tried for their crimes against humanity? Who of them can be tried for their acts of terrorism? Who of them can be sued? Who of them can be made to pay compensation? Who of them is going to revert the situation to pre WW2? Who of them will be brought to justice? I'll tell you NONE! NO ONE! They don't exist. They're dead. D - E - A - D ... dead! The Stern Gang, Haganah, et al simply no longer exist

      Justice only belongs in the past once it has been delivered. The past can only tell us, by their statements and actions, who the perpetrators were so we can know in which direction justice might lay and to whom it can be delivered. Clearly legally, morally, ethically, financially and spiritually it is to Palestine.

      If the perpetrators no longer exist one can only look at what does exist and what can be done towards bringing justice about. Whether we like it or not, legal or illegal, the State of Israel exists. But it cannot be prosecuted for crimes committed before it existed. It's a simple fact of law, applicable to all, not just Israel. Evil people exploited it creating the situation as it is today. They're long gone.

      " There is no third way in logic."

      I hate to have to point this out, but YOU are trying to make a third way. 1) The pre-Israeli state Zionist players no longer exist. 2) The State of Israel, illegal or not, exists. 3) your notions

      "Repeat: logic does not allow one thing at the same time as its diametrical contrary. Like
      a) inadmissibility of colonial presence anywhere without explicit permission of the owners and
      non-a) colonial presence without explicit permission of the owners."

      I agree. BTW Do you really think the main players legal teams were not and are not now aware of the laws and conventions? Let's say there was a plebiscite, do you really think the Zionist enterprise would give a stuff? Get real!

      Meanwhile, Palestine has already agreed under the leadership of Arafat, to cede some 78% of their territories to Israel for Peace. Not my doing.

      "So you are not “arguing against it”"

      Nonsense. My entire output on the subject is on the illegitimacy of the the Zionist Federation's colonization of Palestine.

      " apart the fact that religion plays no role here and the invaders are historically non-religious, the only “Jews” of interest here are Palestinians of Jewish ancestry as of the start of Zionist invasion."

      Precisely as I have offered . https://www.google.com.au/search?q=referendum%20%22legitimate%20citizens%20of%20the%20territory%22%20+talknic

      "You are arguing for keeping invaders and offspring thereof in Palestine without permission from the owners."

      No. I am pointing out the situation as it stands. The Palestinians under the leadership of Arafat, declared statehood, ceding 78% of their rightful territories to the State of Israel. You wish it didn't happen, but it did! I didn't do it.

      "the opportunity was that of establishing a colonial government.."

      It wasn't in fact for 2,000 years. It wasn't in fact under the LoN Mandate Article 7. It wasn't in ANY of the missed opportunities I mentioned until Israel declared, thereby missing another opportunity. You're huffing and puffing at straw dude

      "Except for long-time Palestinian Jews, who are the only “Jewish folk” of relevance when talking about Palestine, period."

      Indeed. You're barking up the wrong tree. Take a chill pill :-)

    • On edit:

      The establishment of the State of Israel was another in a long list of missed opportunities for peace and for Jewish folk who could have taken those opportunities had they wished, without the need for colonization or dispossessing anyone http://wp.me/pDB7k-pE

    • @ echinococcus April 20, 2017, 8:17 pm

      Obviously you don’t get it.

      Let me explain more clearly:
      Take all the 00:01s, the disquisitions about intra-Zionist differences among the bandits, the angels dancing on the tip of a pin, all the committees, all the collaborators, everything,
      roll them all up
      and shove them"

      Great explanation.

      "It’s all worthless as long as the Palestinian people, in a way that will appear to its masses as entirely just and representative and excluding the invader, has not spoken. No justice, no peace."

      I agree. I said it 2012.

      "Meanwhile, you are performing Zionist propaganda by legitimizing the pirate entity. Period"

      By arguing against it. Interesting theory. I argue against it on behalf of Palestinians and Jews BTW. The establishment of the State of Israel was another in a long list of missed opportunities for peace and for Jewish folk who could have taken those opportunities had they wished http://wp.me/pDB7k-pE

    • @ Oldgeezer April 20, 2017, 9:46 pm

      I don't really mind, even tho I spit chips every now and then. I know we're actually in the same boat, different paddles. It helps me refine/hone different points and find different ways of putting forward a cohesive argument

      :-)

    • @ talkback April 20, 2017, 3:38 pm

      "To the contrary. Every single resolution that supports the two state solution based on 67 lines inherently recognizes Ashdod to be in Israel and not in occupied Palestinian territory. "

      Start putting them up.

      Like the ICJ opinion on the wall, you'll likely find they're based on the Palestinian Declaration of Statehood via the borders it is willing to accept. Palestine framed the question to the ICJ based on the Palestinian declaration which ceded territories to Israel, therefore the court could reflect, in its opinion, the ceded territories were Israeli. Bear in mind if you try going down that path, it was only an ICJ opinion, not a ruling.

      Israel has yet to accept that situation so there is answer yet to the Question of Palestine. There is no agreement! The rest of the world acknowledges what the Palestinians have ceded. NOT what Israel accepts because Israel hasn't accepted! The only thing Israel has actually accepted are the territories it proclaimed in its plea for recognition

      "I have to say that it is actually cracy to claim that the majority of UN members that recognize Israel hold the position that Ashdod is occupied territory"

      Israel said it May 22nd 1948 in its statement to the UNSC https://unispal.un.org/DPA/DPR/unispal.nsf/eed216406b50bf6485256ce10072f637/b4085a930e0529c98025649d00410973?OpenDocument " ... territories, outside the State of Israel" ... ... "in Palestine" More here http://wp.me/pDB7k-Xk

      Again in its failed claim of Aug 1949 and the Commissions reply said it. http://wp.me/pDB7k-l5

      Confirmed by the Armistice Agreements specifically “2. The Armistice Demarcation Line is not to be construed in any sense as a political or territorial boundary, and is delineated without prejudice to rights, claims and positions of either Party to the Armistice as regards ultimate settlement of the Palestine question”

      https://docs.google.com/uc?id=0B9Vis_gBvX6aYTA0ZDVhMTctZmUzNS00MzU1LTlmMzEtNGI1ZDMwNGIwNDNh&hl=en_GB

      // Talknic: “The reality is it has already been recognized!”//

      "And you don’t want to challenge Israel’s recognition in general"

      Even challenging it, Israel still exists. You cannot get away from that fact. Like it or not, that IS the situation. It isn't a dream or a hope or a wish. It's the reality!

      " we allready noticed that very well. No matter how often you want to make sure that everybody knows how injust you think its establishment was. I call that post facto Zionism."

      Call your silly witch hunting accusations whatever you like. It has nothing to do with me

    • @ talkback April 20, 2017, 4:22 pm

      Talknic: “Israel didn’t exist before 00:01 may 15th 1948. You can point the finger at the Zionist movement/Jewish Agency/Jewish terrorist gangs prior to that exact time”.

      "Sure, just don’t point the finger at the Goverment of Israel which gave the territory back when it found out that it was stolen by the people that became the Goverment of Israel. ROFL."

      That's precisely it. The Jewish Agency & Zionist Federation's legal team weren't idiots. Any legal person worth their salt knows a State or person can't be prosecuted for crimes prior to their existence.

      Clever people are not always nice or honest and amongst the legal fraternity there are always those who simply relish the challenge of exploiting legal aspects that enable them or their client to do whatever they wish and get away with it, ethics and/or morality simply aren't of concern

      "Seriously how dd Israel acquire that territory that was not illegaly acquired by it? Receiving of stolen property? Fencing?"

      The way all propaganda and criminal schemes get away things. Thru the rest of the world being way behind the eight ball and in this instance granting recognition, which under law is irrevocable. Another point the Zionist legal advisers would have been quite ware of. Only the citizens of the state can decide, ironically by a plebiscite or referendum, to disband the state or cede territory or rights to another entity. In effect what we have been saying should have been the case with Palestine.

      The law might be in force, but in effect only after it has been discovered to have been broken, if it has been broken. While a decision is being made on the latter, the ball is purposefully kept in the air. A shining example are the so called peace talks or; the time spent arguing over "all" or "the" in UNSC res 242 to keep what was an inevitable resolution being adopted for as long as possible while while consolidating as much as possible of what became illegal facts on the ground. Subsequent UNSC resolutions make it perfectly clear what was meant by UNSC res 242. The argument over "all" and "the" was bullsh*t!

      Know who you're dealing with. The Zionist Federation have always been thinking decades ahead, it's an essential requirement of the enterprise. By 1948 they'd had over half a century of practicing their craft. Slowly putting things in place, making promises they knew they'd never keep, massaging the message, knowing all the while State governments/Presidents/Prime Ministers et al come and go in a relative blink of an eye and; while you wait, there's still plenty to do. It's been 24/365.25 since 1987. Governments sleep. Zionism hasn't.

      Opposition is only a temporary set back and an alternative plan and or person are always readilly groomed and waiting in the wings. Look at how new worms suddenly appearing from out of the wood work when there's a new POTUS

      The declaration of Israeli statehood was planned down to the exact 60 seconds after the Mandate protecting Palestine ended. One minute to declare statehood, while already being in control of territory the Israeli Government readily admitted on May 22nd 1948 was "outside the State of Israel" ... "in Palestine"

      Plan Dalet was a crime a crime for which the State of Israel could not be prosecuted while at the same time preventing the Palestinians from declaring an equivalent even had they wanted to declare independent statehood because they simply weren't in control of all their remaining territories or independent of all others.

    • @ talkback April 19, 2017, 12:31 pm

      // Talknic: “1) Please show an official document of recognition by any state other than those of 1948/49/50.” //

      "Please prove that the majority of countries who recognize Israel don’t recognize for example Jaffa, Ashdod and Bersheeba to be a part of Israel and claim that these places are occupied Palestinian territory. "

      = no document of recognition. No document showing a legal agreement between Israel and the State of Palestine.

      Israel itself hasn't agreed to ANY final borders

      "You can also use any official UN document"

      Israel itself hasn't agreed to ANY final borders so the Question of Palestine remains un-answered so there is no official UN document in that respect.

      The 'question' reverts back to the 1949 Armistice Agreements stating that "the Armistice Demarcation Line is not to be construed in any sense as a political or territorial boundary"

      There is this official UN document of the 31st August 1949 to Conciliation Commission revealing Israel's A) intention to possess all the non-Israeli territories it occupied by 1949. B) It’s admission, by stating it’s intention, that the territories not recognized as Israeli C) It’s admission, by stating it’s intention, that no part of Syria (the Golan) was Israeli. D) It’s admission, by stating it’s intention relating only to the surrounding Arab states, that there would be no form of self determination by the Palestinians (read Deuteronomy 20:15), E) Via the final paragraph, if Israel didn’t get it’s way, it would not respect the recognized Sovereign integrity of the Arab states and their right to live in peace
      https://unispal.un.org/DPA/DPR/unispal.nsf/0/C96E0252E7710BCE85256D95006BC157

      The official reply https://unispal.un.org/DPA/DPR/unispal.nsf/0/A6590B9A251FC2AC85256D95006C45EF emphatically dismisses the notion, referring Israel back to the armistice agreements, specifically “2. The Armistice Demarcation Line is not to be construed in any sense as a political or territorial boundary, and is delineated without prejudice to rights, claims and positions of either Party to the Armistice as regards ultimate settlement of the Palestine question”

      // Talknic: “They trashed it.” //

      "In that case they also trashed your position"

      That's odd. Aside from the Holocaust I consider Israel as it is to be the worst thing to have happen for Jews. Polarizing Jewish folk against each other. Those who believe the Zionist bullsh*t and those who believe in justice and the basic common sense tenets of Judaism.

      While Israel is in the UN and is a State it exists and should be bought before the law. While Israel has the US Veto vote on its side the US prevents Israel from being booted out of the UN. So we're stuck with it.

      " But the question remains, why you don’t make a case for it since it seems all to be about regocnition for you. Why don’t you argue that Israel can’t be recognized at all, because its proclamation violated SEC RES 46? And what’s your position about non recognition, because of non compliace with 194?"

      The reality is it has already been recognized!

    • @ echinococcus April 19, 2017, 10:51 pm

      "Halleluiah. Looks like you start getting it. Or not?"

      Oh FFS. I wrote that particular comment in 2012. Look at the date. It's been the position on the talknic blog since day one (circa 2010 https://talknic.wordpress.com/?s=referendum) and; I've been saying it for at least 30 years.

      "Of course there is no such plebiscite! That’s what I have been pointing out all the time"

      You arrived at MW quite some timer AFTER 2012. I was pointing it out at MW before you arrived.

      // “The acquisition of territory by war is inadmissible” The notion of self determination was Customary International Law some years before Israel ever existed and; no such referendum has ever been conducted in any of the territories Israel has acquired by war”//

      "Well guess what, all the territory of that “Israel” abomination has been acquired by war. Every single f. inch. Not one inch that you can continue to see as “Israel” or whatever the fancy Zionist name"

      Israel didn't exist before 00:01 may 15th 1948. You can point the finger at the Zionist movement/Jewish Agency/Jewish terrorist gangs prior to that exact time. We can also read their official statements at the UN/UNSC and by comparing them to their subsequent statements and actions see that they were vile, scheming, liars. They cannot however be taken to court, sued, made to withdraw, pay compensation. They are for the most part dead!

      Post 00:01 May 15th 1948, you're dealing with a state, that whether we agree with how it came to be , whether we like it or hate it, whether we think it is illegal or not, exists. You can take it and any of its leaders who're still breathing to court and sue or prosecute them for crimes and for compensation. You cannot do the same of dead Zionist liars and murderers.

      "If we leave justice for a moment and talk real world, well a plebiscite is of course a pipe dream but still the only bloodless way out –and as such to be highly recommended"

      Indeed. BTW in the real world Israel exists

      " ... ... There is a reason invasion was described as “inadmissible”"

      The "acquisition of territory" by war is inadmissible. Under the Laws of War, one may invade and occupy territory for strategic military purposes once a war has been started. Wars are started by the party firing the first salvo. It is illegal to start a war without first lodging a Declaration of War with the UNSC. Israel has never declared war. All its wars have been ilegal. As far as I am aware, the Arab States' Declaration on the Invasion of Palestine was the last Declaration of War ever lodged with the UNSC .

      Once hostilities are over, the Occupying Power is required to either legally annex occupied territories via a plebiscite/referendum of the legitimate citizens of the territories to be annexed or as with the Egypt/Israel peace treaty, withdraw.

    • @ echinococcus April 19, 2017, 12:35 am

      "Sure, Talknic.

      Only, you still didn’t produce that plebiscite."

      You're ridiculous. THERE ISN'T ONE! You've said as much yourself. You want me to produce something that doesn't exist? Sure dude, lend me some of you magic powder

      Repeat “The acquisition of territory by war is inadmissible” The notion of self determination was Customary International Law some years before Israel ever existed and; no such referendum has ever been conducted in any of the territories Israel has acquired by war" - See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2012/01/santorums-pulp-hasbara/#comment-416435

    • @ echinococcus April 17, 2017, 10:15 pm

      // the declaration was delivered by one Yasser Arafat 15th November 1988 //

      "thereby strangling the resistance movement ... etc etc"

      Mahmoud Darwish and Yasser Arafat were Zionist lackies. Interesting theory. I suggest a chill pill

      As to the need for a plebiscite or referendum - January 17, 2012 at 2:56 pm http://mondoweiss.net/2012/01/santorums-pulp-hasbara/#comment-416435

      More ... http://mondoweiss.net/profile/talknic/?keyword=referendum

      Now please ('scuse me folks) kindly f*ck off!

    • @ Talkback April 18, 2017, 9:24 am

      "Again, on the one hand it’s safe to say that the majority of the UN members have inherently recognized Israel within 67 lines while supporting the two state solution. "

      I've been asking the following questions for decades.
      1) Please show an official document of recognition by any state other than those of 1948/49/50.
      2) Please show an official document where territories "outside the State of Israel" ... "in Palestine" were officially annexed in agreement with the Palestinians

      "And any member CAN recognize Israel in any borders they like and even if it doesn’t recognize Palestine"

      Show a document where they have actually recognized Israel other than as proclaimed effective 00:01 May 15th 1948 (ME time).

      "On the other hand you could acknowledge that the proclamation of Israel violated SEC RES 46 (1d) and following your own reasoning you would have to come to the conclusion that Israel CAN NOT be recognized in ANY borders. "

      They trashed it. Go complain to the states that recognized Israel by its plea for recognition. It had nothing to do with me

      "But strangely enough you avoid my reference to SEC RES 46 every time I bring it up"

      Too late. The majority of states, rightly or wrong, just or unjust, whether we agree or not, did recognize Israel by the borders in its plea for recognition.

      "The only claim you could make is that Israel SHOULDN’T be recognized beyond 48 borders and until it recogizes Palestine."

      A) How many times must I say Israel shouldn't be recognized beyond the 48 borders?

      // Israel cannot be recognized as existing in any borders other than those proclaimed and recognized as effective 00:01 May 15th 1948 - See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/profile/talknic/?keyword=00%3A01+May+15th+1948#sthash.O5v3jYqh.dpuf //

      // Nor does Israel have the finances to even begin to address the massive compensations due Palestinians and dispossessed non-Jewish Israeli citizens, while attempting the relocation of hundreds of thousands of illegal settlers from ALL non-Israeli territories dating back to 00:01 May 15th 1948 - See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/profile/talknic/?keyword=00%3A01+May+15th+1948#sthash.O5v3jYqh.dpuf //

      There are HUNDREDS of other examples in the archives here http://mondoweiss.net/profile/talknic/?keyword=00%3A01+May+15th+1948

      More elsewhere on the internet https://www.google.com.au/search?q=%2200:01%20May%2015th%201948%22%20%22talknic%22

      B) Recognition is not based on the condition that one state must recognize another. There are numerous states in the UN who do not recognize each other. They are however, recognized in some manner or another by a majority of the International Comity of Nations, prior to UN membership

      " But that’s not a legal approach."

      Indeed it isn't. It is however a turn against the Israeli bullsh*t arguments and demands that there must be a peace agreement with Palestine before ending occupation and Palestine must recognize Israel as the Jewish State blah blah. Israel itself was recognized before it recognized anyone and it was recognized before it signed any peace treaties.

      It was in fact recognized while at war with its all its neighbours until the Peace Treaties with Egypt and Jordan. Furthermore it was at war in non-Israeli territories when it was recognized. The UNSC resolutions on the question of Palestine all call for peace "in Palestine" not in Israel. The wars have never been in Israeli territories.

      "And again the question remains why you think it should be recognized at all if its proclamation violated Security Council’s resolution 46 (1d)."

      Oh FFS I've never said or thought it should be recognized or should have been recognized. You're making false assertions.

      The fact is, right or wrong, whether we agree or not, justly or unjustly, it was recognized and as such is bound to adhere to A) It's recognized borders and B) adhere to International Law, the UN Charter and relevant conventions. It has failed on all accounts

      "Your approach sounds as if it is based on legal grounds, but it actually isn’t. It’s a post-Zionist smoke screen to divert from the question ... "

      To put it politely, bullsh*t!

    • @ echinococcus April 17, 2017, 10:31 pm

      // It’s a universal right http://www.un.org/en/universal-declaration-human-rights/ //

      "I believe that doesn’t apply to doing things on other people’s land, if you are there against the will of its owners. The universal law enforcement in these cases is the expulsion of squatters"

      Indeed. Who are you arguing with?

    • @ talkback April 17, 2017, 7:05 am

      "I think you mean that everybody has a right to a nationality. In 1948 Jews exercised this right as citizens of Palestine (or as citizens of any other state). That doesn’t mean that anybody had a right to create a state within mandated Palestine “to live in peace” in it."

      I do and indeed it doesn't. We must also consider the fact that in 1988 the Palestinians under the leadership of Yasser Arafat declared their state and the majority of the world's nations accepted and recognized the State of Palestine. Whatever lay outside of that declaration is not Palestinian, they have relinquished the right to persistent objection under law.

      However, until such time as Israel accepts and recognizes Palestine, Israel cannot be recognized as existing in any borders other than those proclaimed and recognized as effective 00:01 May 15th 1948. As it stands Israel hasn't accepted the territories so generously ceded by the Palestinian Declaration, so it's simply ridiculous to claim recognition of Israel within the Green line when Israel has not itself declared acceptance of that situation.

      In that respect the Palestinian declaration has created a possible third variable http://wp.me/pDB7k-Gl

      "And I might add that it is a kind of strange argumentation to argue that Zionist non state actors weren’t violating “international law” pre the proclamation of the state of Israel"

      Yes quite strange. I've never made any such argument. In fact I said the opposite.

      "So they were terrorists enganged in an illegal coup d’etat to take over a country from within by force and expulsion (and continued to do this later as state actors). They were not different then ISIS in this respect."

      I agree. Seems folk aren't reading my posts care fully

      "To me you are playing a similiar game as some ZIonist commenters here..."

      If you miss read ...

      BTW I don't play games here. Words in this issue have an influence over life and death. Every person who can be shown the deceit of the Zionist Federation is a small step towards resolving the issue by ridding the world of the Zionist scourge

    • @ echinococcus April 17, 2017, 1:50 am

      // The Palestinian Declaration of statehood isn’t my doing //

      "Of course not. It’s the doing of politicians with no general mandate, no title to represent the Palestinian people other than having been co-opted by the same colonial powers that had already subverted the UN to force a decision violating the UN Charter itself. "

      Interesting theory. However, the declaration was delivered by one Yasser Arafat 15th November 1988.

      BTW You're not putting up any alternatives as to who does por should have been representing the Palestinian people.

      "You may choose your own words to describe these traitors (and the colonial slaves that make up the great majority of the UN) but you may not pretend to ignore that there was no Palestinian mandate to do so"

      Uh? How many times do you need references to where I have expressed the need for Palestinian right to self determination before it sinks in?

      // I’m accepting of the Palestinian declaration of statehood 1988, //

      "That is not your major offense. How about the other part: You are “accepting of” the Zionist invaders’ “declaration of statehood” 1948, “as are the majority of the world’s states”. That is all the problem."

      A) It's an 'offense' to accept a Declaration of Statehood by Yasser Arafat? B) My accepting the Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel, you have to be joking. http://wp.me/pDB7k-D6

      I repeat. IF the Zionistas insist Israel has a right to exist then they must also accept that i's recognition gave it borders and that it has legal and moral and ethical obligations as a state and a UN Member. My arguments presented AGAINST their arguments, not yours

      In respect to any alleged acceptance of Israel's existence, or legitimacy on my part, what rubbish. It's coming into existence was another missed opportunity for A) peace in the region and B) ironically for the Zionist fantasy itself and C) for the alleged right of Jewish folk to be able to live anywhere in the Jewish People's alleged historic homeland http://wp.me/pDB7k-pE

      The reality, right or wrong, is that the majority of the world's states, rightly or wrongly recognized Israel and rightly or wrongly, Israel was accepted into the UN. I have never agreed to how it happened. It happened.

      Now the world is dealing with that state because that's what exist now. It can be pursued and sued in the courts and at the UN. Dead Zionists cannot.

    • Correction to link @ echinococcus “See, you continue. There is no such right”

      It’s a universal right http://www.un.org/en/universal-declaration-human-rights/

    • @ Talkback April 16, 2017, 6:57 am

      "Nobody claimed that you support “Zionist liars”"

      I suggest you read echinococcus' accusations

      ". You focus on the “dishonesty” of Zionists. What’s the pont?"

      To show responsibility for the conflict, where compensation is actually due and importantly to show Jewish folk how they have been deceived because Jewish folk have the latent power to very swiftly close the chapter on the Zionist scourge

      //“What occurred in a civil war, even though illegal, were not the actions of a state that didn’t exist at the time.”//

      "Again, so what? Why do you focus on this difference?"

      Legalities under the law. Can't sue a state for something that didn't happen when it didn't exist

      "Why not simply focus on the position that the conquest of any inch of Palestine was illegitimate? Even the proclamation violated SEC RES 46."

      One could do that, but "what's the point". Who're you gonna sue? Dead Zionists? Dead war criminals can't be punished. States can be made to pay compensation (Germany). States can be made to withdraw (Egypt/Israel Peace Treaty) (Indonesia /East Timor) (Iraq/Kuwait)

    • @ Sibiriak April 15, 2017, 11:52 pm

      " 1) Did the American Civil War cease to be a civil war the moment the Confederate States of America were proclaimed to be an independent nation?"

      It's arguable because both shared a common nationality. However, it was also a war between the Union ( United States) and the Confederate States . I'm inclined to think that a common nationality made it a civil war

      "2) If part of an existing state declares independence and tries to secede and war ensues, are you saying such a war is not a civil war?"

      A better question might be - If the warring parties do not share a common nationality is it a civil war?

      "3) Is a mere declaration of independence enough bring a state into existence and turn a “non-state actor” into a “state actor”?"

      Montevideo Convention on the Rights and Duties of states says it is. It's called self determination if the majority of the population of a territory decide that's what they want

      "4)Can you cite any legal document, legal authority or scholar that affirms as you do that at precisely 00:01 May 15th 1948, when Israel was proclaimed to be an independent nation, the civil war in Palestine ceased to be a civil war?"

      A) The two parties were no longer of the same nationality. B) The Armistice Agreements indicate it was an international conflict

      "5) Can you cite any official definition of “civil war ” in international law?"

      A) Civil wars are not classified as International conflicts. International law allows intervention by request of the majority in a state B) at the moment Israel's Declaration of statehood came into effect at 00:01 May 15th 1948, Israeli forces were acting outside of its borders C) Self education starting point: https://www.icrc.org/eng/resources/documents/interview/2012/12-10-niac-non-international-armed-conflict.htm

      "6)From 00:01 May 15th 1948 on, it was the State of Israel illegally acquiring territories “outside the State of Israel.

      So prior to that moment, the acquisition of territory by force by Jewish “non-state actors” was not illegal–because it occurred during a “civil war”?"

      I you say so. I said this: Prior to 00:01 May 15th 1948 there was a civil war in Palestine. In this period properties were illegally taken by Jewish terrorist groups, non-state actors. - See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2017/04/miracle-ambassador-declares/comment-page-1/#comment-876641

    • @ echinococcus April 16, 2017, 12:49 am

      //Although I don’t agree with how it came into existence, I support innocent folks’ right, including innocent Jews and non-Jews caught up in the Zionist project, to live in peace in a state//

      "See, you continue. There is no such right"

      It's a universal right fhttp://www.un.org/en/universal-declaration-human-rights/

      "I would like all those nice things you say, too, but see, I am not the fully authorized representative of the Palestinian people. I am not even an individual Palestinian, not even a collaborator. So who am I to dictate to the Palestinians?"

      Yet you are. On the other hand, I'm accepting of the Palestinian declaration of statehood 1988, as are the majority of the world's states

      "Now, who are you to dictate to the Palestinians..."

      The Palestinian Declaration of statehood isn't my doing

      "I can see why you have such a refractory case of misunderstanding."

      You're tawkin' nonsense

    • Talkback April 15, 2017, 3:23 pm

      "Why don’t you simply say what your position is? I don’t have the time to go through a list of google results"

      The search results show where I have stated my position numerous times. It doesn't seem to work on some folk who for some really weird reason think that criticism of Zionist liars is support for Zionist liars.

      "There’s no resolution which condemns the expansion of Israeli law (and therefore sovereignity) to the territories it conqured beyond res 181 and within 67 lines (excluding Jerusalem). Israel “exists” there, too"

      Israel wasn't a UN Member when it illegally acquired non-Israeli territories beyond its borders in 1948/49. The UN doesn't directly censure non-member states, nor does it censure Member States for their actions prior to membership even though those actions might be illegal. The place for those censures would possibly be with the ICJ and for war crimes the ICC.

      A large part of Israel's fear of an independent Palestinian state is that once achieved, full Palestinian Membership in the UN is the next obvious step. As a full UN Member, Palestine can then set in motion a number of processes addressing every legal aspect on the Question of Palestine for which Israel actually has no legal defense. (Israel only has US UNSC veto protection against actions which might be taken for its violations of the UN Charter and International Law as described, reaffirmed and emphasized in numerous Chapt VI resolutions reminding Israel of its binding obligations

      Nor does Israel have the finances to even begin to address the massive compensations due Palestinians and dispossessed non-Jewish Israeli citizens, while attempting the relocation of hundreds of thousands of illegal settlers from ALL non-Israeli territories dating back to 00:01 May 15th 1948

      "So what? What is the point to make a difference who (non state actor or state actor) acquired what territory by war and expulsion? It the latter less illegal than the former? ... etc etc ..."

      What occurred in a civil war, even though illegal, were not the actions of a state that didn't exist at the time. A point which, if the Zionist legal team were worth their salt, would have been well aware. They weren't idiots. The same can not be said of Israeli Governments

      " ... would be more clear if you would write: “the territories Israel conquered beyond its recognized borders in accordance with res 181 and which lie within 67 lines.” At least for outsiders

      Noted

    • @ echinococcus April 15, 2017, 10:00 am

      //an illegal state exists never the less as a state//

      "Lame, lame"

      You'd like it to not exist. Tough. it does. Although I don't agree with how it came into existence, I support innocent folks' right, including innocent Jews and non-Jews caught up in the Zionist project, to live in peace in a state.

      In that respect, a non-expansive, 'peace loving' state with true equality for its citizens should not be a problem. Neighbourly states with mixed cultural, mixed ethnic and mixed religions do exist in the world.

      "That’s all you can say, hundreds of times. without ever answering any questions like “So f***** what? So did the Third Reich.”"

      I have no idea who you're quoting. I have answered the question. If you want me to use your exact thoughts and words you'll have to give over your life, body and mind, however, I'm actually quite OK with my own thx

      "Is that why your output essentially consists of a defense of the existence of the Zio entity created without consulting them?"

      Strange, you can't quote one word I've said in this alleged defense. I have in fact written thousands of words showing the trail of Zionist lies leading up to and after Israel came into existence, none of which amount to defense of the Zionist colonization of Palestine.

      So either quote me or please STFU

    • @ echinococcus April 14, 2017, 7:04 pm

      "That attitude of yours, repeated, has totally erased any credibility you may have had for me."

      No quote = no quote. Until you supply a quote that shows your assertion to be true, it's only an accusation and accusations aren't evidence.

    • @ echinococcus April 14, 2017, 7:00 pm

      "Your link is essentially an exposition of facts plus a summary of colonialist interpretation of rights"

      In order to show the dishonesty of the Zionists and successive governments of the State of Israel that throw the legitimacy of the Jewish state into question

      "Palestine is still entirely occupied by colonial invaders with no right to be there"

      However, an illegal state exists never the less as a state

      "and no one except the owners of the land, not ever including any of the hostile invaders, has a say about that."

      Similar to what Balfour said in his later statements. Similar to what I've said on numerous occasions

      " Your link does not sufficiently address that and I now regret wasting time reading irrelevant stuff."

      Seems you didn't read much

    • Talkback April 14, 2017, 2:45 am

      "A.) Your link is a google result … What is anybody supposed to look for?"

      The number of references to MW and elsewhere where I've done what I've been accused here of not doing in respect to the legality of partition . Take your pick

      //B.) ” If, as they insist, Israel has a right to exist, then that state must adhere to the rules. It clearly hasn’t.”//

      "To follow your own logic: It exist, even it doesn’t abide to the rules. So there goes your argument.".

      You're not making sense. There are two conditions. Pre 00:01 May 15th 1948 (ME time) when Israel didn't exist and post 00:01 May 15th 1948 (ME time) when Israel. legitimate or not, did exist.

      Prior to 00:01 May 15th 1948 there was a civil war in Palestine. In this period properties were illegally taken by Jewish terrorist groups, non-state actors. Israel didn't exist.

      At precisely 00:01 May 15th 1948, with Jewish forces already in territories outside the proclaimed borders of the State of Israel, the civil war became a war waged by the State of Israel on and in what remained of Palestine. From 00:01 May 15th 1948 on, it was the State of Israel illegally acquiring territories "outside the State of Israel"

      "And it has been de facto recognized within 67 lines by the vast majority of the UNGAR members when they call for a two state solution within these borders. And not a single security council resolution has condemned Israel’s annexation of the territories between the borders it declared in 1948 and the 67 lines. This has become customary law. "

      There's a few slight problems there.

      A) The main player, Israel hasn't agreed. The only proclaimed and actually recognized borders of Israel are those of 00:01 May 15th 1948 per UNGA re 181

      B) de facto is certainly not de jure!

      C) Nor does one conflict instance make customary law. The law, customary or otherwise exists until the law itself is repealed and it while it is in force it applies to everyone at all times. The law existed before and will continue to exist if this is resolved and it will be applicable towards any possible future conflicts, in an attempt to discourage such conflicts from arising and if they do, hopefully act as a guide in determining who is responsible and how the conflict should be resolved.

      D) Israel didn't annex any territories it acquired by war by 1949 and which were, by the Israeli Government's own statement to the UNSC "outside the state of Israel" https://unispal.un.org/DPA/DPR/unispal.nsf/eed216406b50bf6485256ce10072f637/b4085a930e0529c98025649d00410973?OpenDocument

      It was still unsuccessfully trying in August 1949 as a UN Member State to legally acquire those territories "outside the State of Israel". It was was rebuffed, referred back to the specific article in the Armistice Agreements, making it very clear the Armistice Demarcation Lines were not to be taken as borders http://wp.me/pDB7k-l5#israels-intentions

      E) Israel wasn't a UN Member when it illegally acquired territories beyond its self proclaimed and recognized partition borders. The UN doesn't adopt resolutions directly censuring/naming non member states. Nor does it pass resolutions condemning Member States for their actions prior to becoming Member States. Last I was challenged on this point I was shown examples where no actual state was censured

      "And you are avoiding the question about the legality of Israel’s establishment through conquest and expulsion by implying that if Israel would abide by the rules (basically respecting the borders in which it declared statehood) then everything would be ok."

      Nonsense. My position has been that it will be far from OK. Under the law, Israel must withdraw, take its citizens who're not likely to want to cooperate, pay billions in compensation it can ill afford. A failed state attempting to evict and repatriate hundreds of thousands of angry Israelis who've been duped and now they gotta move? They ain't gonna be happy. A failed state armed to the teeth descending into civil war in territories outside of its borders isn't OK

      "P.S. Please quote what you want to be read from all these links you provide"
      ----------------------
      Talkback April 14, 2017, 12:10 pm

      Talknic: “By this definition many Palestine refugees were from outside of Israel’s 1948 borders.”

      "By which definition where",/.em>
      Again? DEFINITION OF A “REFUGEE” UNDER PARAGRAPH 11 OF THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION OF 11 DECEMBER 1948 (UNGA res 194) - See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2017/04/miracle-ambassador-declares/#sthash.XnkReIlG.dpuf

      " how many Palestinian refugees outside of Israel’s 1948 borders? Please quote and provide a source for numbers."

      OK. This is approximate

      According to the Jewish Virtual Library – On May 14th 1948 Israel was guaranteed a minority of non-Jewish civilians within it’s Sovereign territory. 538,000 Jews / 397,000 Arabs. http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/map-of-the-u-n-partition-plan

      We are told some 20% ( 79,400 ) of the non-Jewish Israeli population remained. 397,000 minus 79,400 = 317,600 non-Jewish Israelis dispossessed from Israeli proclaimed and recognized territories

      According to the UNITED NATIONS CONCILIATION COMMISSION FOR PALESTINE - Covering the period from 11 December 1949 to 23 October 1950, there were 711,000 refugees from Israeli controlled areas ( including areas outside the State of Israel ). https://unispal.un.org/DPA/DPR/unispal.nsf/b792301807650d6685256cef0073cb80/93037e3b939746de8525610200567883?OpenDocument

      711,000 refugees minus 317,600 non-Jewish Israeli refugees = 393,400 refugees from territories outside the State of Israel's proclaimed and recognized borders of 00:01 May 15th 1948

    • Mooser April 13, 2017, 4:55 pm

      "I’m not sure there is any difference between asking Israel to honor the ’48 lines and asking Israel to destroy itself."

      There's a vast difference.

      To be clear, the UNRWA figure so often cited by Zionist propagandists is only to ascertain who qualifies for assistance whilst they are refugees. The UNRWA mandate (1949) and definition does not extend to final status or RoR nor does it relate to UNGA res 194 (1948). Zionists it seems are spectacularly ignorant of chronological order. UNRWA didn't even exist in 1948.

      DEFINITION OF A “REFUGEE” UNDER PARAGRAPH 11 OF THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION OF 11 DECEMBER 1948 (UNGA res 194) By this definition many Palestine refugees were from outside of Israel's 1948 borders. They and their lineal descendants do not have RoR to Israeli territories of 1948.

      They do however, have RoR to non-Israeli territories illegally acquired by war since Israel's borders were proclaimed effective at 00:01 May 15th 1948 and recognized as such. None of these territories acquired by war have yet become Israeli by any agreement. Although the Palestinians have stated categorically they are willing to cede 78% of their rightful territories to Israel for peace, Israel has yet to accept or agree.

      In respect to the alleged demographic threat, simple maths and a touch of logic tells us the Jewish population long ago exceeded the point where there was any demographic threat by allowing RoR for non-Jewish Israelis dispossessed in 1948/50 to the self proclaimed and internationally recognized Israeli territories of 1948.

      By 1950 there was an influxof some 500,000 Arab Jews from the Arab States alone adding to the number of Jewish Israelis already there by 1948. Added to which there were refugees from Europe, plus an influx of non-refugees from around the world. Whereas the number of non-Jewish Israeli refugees has actually decreased through natural attrition. Even with their lineal descendants, Jewish Israelis and their offspring far outnumber any demographic threat from the declining number of non-Jewish Israelis who were dispossessed and their growing number of offspring.

      IOW the demographic threat to Israel is Zionist bullsh*t!

    • echinococcus / Talkback

      Further reading as recommended at the British Branch of the International Law Association Annual Conference, Sheffield University, United Kingdom, April 26, 27, 28 2011 https://talknic.wordpress.com/sovereignty-state-entity/

      ( http://documents.jdsupra.com/6199cf09-57e7-4d05-98e9-696b044bf91d.pdf [208] )

    • @ Talkback April 13, 2017, 8:51 am

      "You continously suggest that Israel should stick to its self declared borders (in accordance with res 181) as if this was legitimate and that ONLY what followed wasn’t. But you fail to explain the legal and moral difference and won’t answer (t)his question "

      A) https://www.google.com.au/search?q=talknic%20%E2%80%9CThe+contradiction+between+the+letters+of+the+Covenant%22

      B) "ONLY what followed" is relevant to the State of Israel, which didn't effectively exist prior to 00:01 May 15th 1948

      My argument to those put forward by supporters of the Zionist Movement's state is based on what Israel obliged itself to maintain according to the official statements of the Jewish Agency/Zionist Federation, prior to and after Israel's declaration of statehood, all of which shows Israel's leaders, the Jewish Agency and the Zionist Federation to be damnable liars. If, as they insist, Israel has a right to exist, then that state must adhere to the rules. It clearly hasn't

      There are numerous ways of arguing the various aspects of the situation. Each to their own

    • "after centuries of exile"

      Strange. If our Jewish fellows were indeed exiled, they were free to return from at least the end of the Roman era. They could have attained legitimate citizenship, bought land and settled anywhere in the Jewish People's alleged historical homeland.

      Few bothered. Even Herzl who could have in his lifetime, didn't.

    • @ echinococcus April 12, 2017, 12:22 pm

      "It continues its illegal existence with your very insistent assistance"

      An illegal existence is never the less existence.

      " Quote you? Read your last message"

      = no quote

    • @ echinococcus April 12, 2017, 8:41 am

      Israel exists as a state. Like it or not. Legally or illegally. Just or unjust. Not at my insistence. Not with my assistance. Certainly not with any approval on my part.

      If useful idiot supporters of the Zionist Federation's colonialism insist on Israel's existence as a state, then it must be held to its obligations to International Law and the UN Charter as stated in the Israeli declaration of statehood and numerous other official Jewish Agency and Israeli Government commitments.

      "... recognizing a legitimacy to the 1947/48 one"

      Quote me

    • @ DaBakr April 11, 2017, 2:17 am

      " when has Hanan Ashwari EVER spoken without disgust and disdain?"

      There is something to like about a state stealing territory, dispossessing people, ripping off poorer Jewish families by lying to them and lending them money at interest on condition they endanger themselves in illegal settlements in non-Israeli territories illegally acquired by war?

      "She has no interest in a peace treaty with Israel "

      While Israel continues to occupy and while it continues to illegally settle occupied territories, ISRAEL is not interested in peace. The Palestinians are not stealing, occupying or illegally settling any Israeli territories. They've already agreed to cede 78% of their rightful territories for peace with Israel and are only asking for their legal rights

      "and does not believe be Israel has any right to exist as a Jewish sovereign state."

      It doesn't have a right to exist as a Jewish sovereign state. Read the Israeli declaration of statehood. All Israeli citizens should be treated equally. Israel belongs to ALL its citizens, Jewish and non-Jewish.

      "She may believe that Jews can live as some type of protected minority in a sovereign Palestinian state"

      They did for over two thousand years, from the Roman era until 1948. In fact the longest period of Jewish history in the region was as Palestinians.

    • @ DaBakr April 11, 2017, 7:08 am

      " ... the fact remains that the vast majority of Jews, wether, Brit, German, North African, Persian or American don’t either need nor do they desire too be ‘educated,’ about your list of the negative attributes of Israel..."

      Go whine to the Zionist Federation for pushing Israel to be in breach of its legal obligations under International Law.

      " ... and your false narrative of the evils of Zionism."

      What part is false. You forgot to say.

      Is it not true that the Zionist Federation decided in 1897 set up the Jewish COLONIAL Trust in order to specifically colonize Palestine and that they loaned money to specifically poor Jews ( specifically at interest ) on condition that they put themselves on the front lines in Palestine to further the Zionist Colonization process?

      Take your time answering

      "Im sure we are quite comfortable In building the lands thatbelong to the Jews while providing liberty and full civil rights to any minority groups they live among us."

      Wonderful. Might be best tho for Israelis to stick to living in Israel instead of illegally settling in non-Israeli territories illegally acquired by war by the Jewish state since proclaiming its borders effective at 00:01 May 15th 1948

    • @ catalan April 11, 2017, 10:24 am

      "Well the Gazans keep praying and how is that working out for them?"

      You're spouting crap pal. The Palestinians do not base their claims on any god given right.

    • @ DaBakr April 11, 2017, 7:08 am

      " ... the fact remains that the vast majority of Jews, wether, Brit, German, North African, Persian or American don’t either need nor do they desire too be ‘educated,’ about your list of the negative attributes of Israel..."

      Go whine to the Zionist Federation for pushing Israel to be in breach of its legal obligations under International Law.

      " ... and your false narrative of the evils of Zionism."

      What part is false. You forgot to say.

      Is it not true that the Zionist Federation decided in 1897 set up the Jewish COLONIAL Trust in order to specifically colonize Palestine and that they loaned money to specifically poor Jews ( specifically at interest ) on condition that they put themselves on the front lines in Palestine to further the Zionist Colonization process?

      Take your time answering

      "Im sure we are quite comfortable In building the lands thatbelong to the Jews while providing liberty and full civil rights to any minority groups they live among us."

      Wonderful. Might be best tho for Israelis to stick to living in Israel instead of illegally settling in non-Israeli territories illegally acquired by war by the Jewish state since proclaiming its borders effective at 00:01 May 15th 1948

    • @ JeffB April 10, 2017, 7:03 pm

      "I can remember the first time I walked into a crappy restaurant and there was a Jewish sink (two handed cups and towels for netilat yadayim)"

      Ah yes. Blessed are you, Hashem our God, King of the Universe Who has sanctified us with His commandments, and has commanded us regarding the washing of the hands and who didn't bother to show up for the Holocaust or any other disaster that befell us

      "I can easily see after how years of being in Israel Ambassador Shapiro went from supporting Israel to identifying personally with it. "

      Stop with the bullsh*t Jeff baby, Shapiro spent his sophomore year in Israel, then went to Brandeis University where in 1991 he obtained his bachelor's degree in Near Eastern and Judaic Studies ( Brandeis was a rabid Zionist http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/american-zionism )

    • Zionists have had 120 years of putting their people, money and influence in positions favourable to the colonization of Palestine. US presidencies are only 8 yrs max. Their people are already being prepared for the next president, Republican or Democrat the Zionist organizations are watching grooming well in advance of anything the American public will be aware of. Covering more angles than any other lobby group would find necessary and gathering the dirt on all possible candidates

      The only peaceful way of defeating Zionists and their vile cause is to educate Jewish folk to the fact that they have been used, abused and duped by a tiny minority who lie, cheat, murder and steal. Who loan money specifically to poor Jews at interest, on condition that they now buy land in non-Israeli territories and put themselves and their families at risk on the front lines. The Zionist Movement's state, then charges them land taxes, rates etc as if they are in Israel, when they're quite simply not

      Jewish folk need to be educated to the fact that the Zionsist Movement/Federation has led them and Israel down the garden path to the point where Israel cannot afford to now adhere to the law under which states are required to withdraw from all Occupied Territories, take all their citizens with them, allow RoR and pay compensations far far beyond the capabilities of the Jewish State

  • In a first, Israeli police refuse permit for Palestinian 'March of Return'
  • Passover in the era of permanent Jewish occupation
    • Zionists have been practicing the art of lying for so long, it seems to be all they know

    • According to the Israeli Government, Israeli military was occupying territories "outside the State of Israel" on May 22nd 1948

      Israeli Government statement

      On May 22, 1948 UNSC S/766 the Provisional Government of Israel answered questions addressed to the “Jewish authorities in Palestine” was transmitted by the acting representative of Israel at the United Nations.

      Q): Over which areas of Palestine do you actually exercise control?

      A): "At present over the entire area of the Jewish State as defined in the Resolution of the General Assembly of the 29th November, 1947. In addition, the Provisional Government exercises control over the city of Jaffa; Northwestern Galilee, including Acre, Zib, Base, and the Jewish settlements up to the Lebanese frontier; a strip of territory alongside the road from Hilda to Jerusalem; almost all of new Jerusalem; and of the Jewish quarter within the walls of the Old City of Jerusalem. The above areas, outside the territory of the State of Israel, are under the control of the military authorities of the State of Israel, who are strictly adhering to international regulations in this regard. The Southern Negev is uninhabited desert over which no effective authority has ever existed." ... " the Government of the State of Israel operates in parts of Palestine outside the territory of the State of Israel"

      “international regulations” at the time say;

      Laws and Customs of War on Land (Hague IV); October 18, 1907 Art. 42 SECTION III
      "Territory is considered occupied when it is actually placed under the authority of the hostile army. The occupation extends only to the territory where such authority has been established and can be exercised."

  • Israel’s ‘right to exist’ and the Palestinian right to resist
    • Wonder what caused the ZioTroll's melt down into into a venom spitting admission that they're thoroughly despicable?

      The thought of "compassion" or the realization that the Palestinian offer to cede a large part of their territory to Israel for peace is quite "generous" compared to the Israeli offer of no thing towards peace, ever!

      It's like flicking droplets of holy water onto the face of Nosferatu and the sight of Rachel Corrie's name
      http://mondoweiss.net/2017/03/remembering-israeli-military/#comment-873843

    • Watching ZioTrolls trying to lie their lies away is rather hilarious. Seems no one has told them that bashing their heads with a hammer to get rid of the lump on their head isn't such a great idea

      They sure know how to show how low they're willing to go and like this particular nasty little specimen even willing to brag about it

      @ catalan April 18, 2017, 3:00 pm

      " “Quote me . Thx I’ll wait” talknic

      Here you go: .... These are all direct quotes from your comment above"

      Strange, there's no quote there about Hamas which is what I actually challenged you on

      “– turns out that the tough guys from Hamas are a bunch of Catholic school girls, and that’s according to your own spokesperson, Talknic. “

      Quote me . Thx I’ll wait …
      - See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2017/04/israels-palestinian-resist/#sthash.ffcXBU2s.dpuf

      What makes people like you such pathetic liars?

      Nothing more needs to be said –"

      Indeed. You'd best not say anything because thus far you've trashed yourself and your cause quite thoroughly

      " I guess the Palestinians are giving what is rightfully theirs because they are just compassionate by nature"

      Could be. Could also be too that unlike Israel and people like yourself, peace has a place in the mix

    • @ catalan April 18, 2017, 10:55 am

      "(I love it that Gazans, who don’t have electricity most of the day would have such good feelings towards the wealthy Israelis!). I love having an enemy like that. I can’t stop laughing about it"

      Showing us again how Zionism attracts all kinds of vile little jerks? So clever! Think of it yourself?

      "– turns out that the tough guys from Hamas are a bunch of Catholic school girls, and that’s according to your own spokesperson, Talknic. "

      Quote me . Thx I'll wait ... Meanwhile false accusations are against the basic tenets of Judaism. The fact that they come so easily to pathetic little ZioTrolls is revealing

      "Any disagreement you have with this point of view, you’ve got to take it up with him, not me."

      It's your false accusation pal. c'mon you've shown you're a thorough jerk, own your own work

      " Also, I am actually very greedy, blah blah ... "

      Keep up th' good work

    • @ catalan April 17, 2017, 10:45 am

      "So according to talknic (who seems to represent the dominant view here), the Palestinians are generous and compassionate and turn the other cheek."

      They have in front of the world at the UN, actually offered peace and some 78% of their territory and it has been acknowledged thru recognition by the majority of the world's nations.

      Israel has offered NO THING. Instead it has made demands that actually have no moral, ethical or legal basis.

      "This sounds very odd to me as it has resulted in Israel having a great economy, free healthcare, people who travel all over the world, a great standard of living, and on the other hand an awful economy, terrible conditions, and incredible suffering for the Palestinians"

      The problem with your utopia is that Israel hasn't paid it's dues for illegally acquiring territories over the last 69 yrs, illegal dispossession of non-Jewish Israelis, illegal dispossession of Palestinians from non-Israeli territories, illegally exploiting non-Israeli resources in non-Israeli territories, illegally gathering taxes and rates from folk to whom it has illegally sold non-Israeli real estate in non-Israeli territories. The list is long and un-paid. Do not unto others ...

      "And in spite of that the Palestinians continue to be “generous”? Well, who can ask for anything for anything more? "

      Israel does!

      "I hope they continue to be generous and turn the other cheek, this is fantastic, may it last many more centuries."

      Such glee. So revealing

      "Also, if they are so generous, perhaps they can agree to give up the Jordan valley and the four major settlements. What is so special about the Green Line? You have said that the Palestinians are entitled to everything beyond 1947, so why not give up a little more, you know, in the name of generosity and turning the other cheek? "

      LOL Shout it from the rooftops dude, let readers know. Only a really vile little rrrrsol brags about riches gained thru theft, dispossession and the subjugation of others. Such are those that Zionism attracts

      Keep up the good work, you're doin' a great job!

    • @ catalan April 16, 2017, 9:51 am

      // “In fact the Palestinians ask for LESS than their legal rights for peace with Israel. – ” //

      "That’s not a very smart strategy"

      It shows who is actually generous, a trait that's lacking in the so called Jewish state. It also shows compassion for Jewish folk innocently or naively caught up in the vile Zionist scheme. The Palestinians it seems value the basic tenets of Judaism far more than you or Israel currently show

      " it would make sense for your opening offer to be more than what you can settle with, rather than less"

      The offer was open for some two thousand years, where Jewish folk could have gone to Palestine, attained citizenship, bought land and settled anywhere in the Jewish People's alleged Historical Homeland. Few bothered. Not even Herzl or his family bothered. The Zionist Federation wanted it all, sans non-Jews and set about to achieve it by lying to and ripping off poor Jews

      Under Article 7 of the LoN Mandate for Palestine Jewish folk were offered Palestinian citizenship, equal rights. Not enough for the Zionist Federation.

      Under UNGA res 181 another offer. Still not enough for the Zionistas

      "Also, they are not getting either their legal rights or peace so I don’t get the point of asking for less"

      Turning the other cheek shows folk who the aggressor really is.

      "Finally, who are they asking? Israel does not care to give anything."

      We know. It only takes. Keep up th' good work

    • In fact the Palestinians ask for LESS than their legal rights for peace with Israel. Offering to cede some 78% of the rightful territories of Palestine to Israel in return for peace. This has been acknowledged in the majority of the world's nations having recognized Palestine as a state.

      Israel's reply has been to continue refuse to allow Palestinian independence by ending the occupation, continuing instead with its illegal behaviour, as it has done since 00:01 May 15th 1948, in territories that are not yet Israeli by any agreement with Palestine.

    • @ asherpat April 15, 2017, 1:54 am

      "You write that “the demand to recognize Israel’s right to exist as a Jewish State is central to Israel’s demand for legitimacy as an Apartheid state.” would you be intellectually honest and extend the same logic to all Arab and many Muslim states that for example have “Islamic Republic” in their name?"

      The State of Israel doesn't have 'Jewish' in its name

    • @ asherpat April 15, 2017, 1:58 am

      "Does the Arab initiative include the ending of the conflict "

      Yes. Tried reading it? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/mar/28/israel7

      "... and the so called ” right of return”?"

      So called? It's in the Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel - "WE APPEAL - in the very midst of the onslaught launched against us now for months - to the Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel to preserve peace and participate in the upbuilding of the State on the basis of full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its provisional and permanent institutions. " http://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/foreignpolicy/peace/guide/pages/declaration%20of%20establishment%20of%20state%20of%20israel.aspx

      " If no, then what kind of peace is that? “Rest in peace”?"

      Israel is the party saying no, making baseless demands and continuing to illegally acquire and illegally settle Israeli citizens in non-Israeli territories.

      The Palestinians ask only for their legal rights.

    • @ DaBakr April 11, 2017, 2:00 am

      "Imo, Palestinians have absolutely zero right to demand the Jews give up sovereignty in their land."

      Your opinion is worthless DaBakr. Jews don't have sovereignty over any land. States have sovereignty over territory as dictated by their borders.

      " there is really no legitimate way that Jewish sovereignty will be given up without a catastrophic battle which seems more and more likely add the Palestinians and their bds cohorts pursue maximalist demands with preconditions to even negotiate"

      Israel could adhere to the law instead of using brutal military force. Never been tried in respect to Palestine.

      The Palestinians are not obliged to forgo ANY of their legal rights at any time to anyone. Israel's demands meanwhile, have absolutely no legal basis and Israel like all states, is obliged to adhere to the law, negotiations or not.

      " The icc has about as much backbone or less then the unhrc or even the unsc."

      More ZioPoop. UNSC veto vote by the US tells us who hasn't got any backbone to stand up to the Zionist Federation

      "One person’s idea of greed is another person’s idea of survival."

      Mmm. Interesting. Jewish forces were already outside of Israel's borders even as they were being proclaimed AFTER having acquired more than half of Palestine completely gratis. So who is greedy? The people whose territories were given away or the people who wanted more than they were already given?

      " Nobody can say with any Certainty wether the growing liberation of Jews in the US has any connection to the state of Israel or not"

      What 'liberation of Jews in the US? Were they under occupation? Incarcerated? Why do you post so much drivel?

    • "Israel’s demand that Palestinians recognize it as a ‘Jewish State’ is a demand for legitimizing Apartheid and ethnic cleansing, and Palestinians certainly have a right to resist it"

      Recognition of another state is not a mandatory precondition for ending occupation or there being independent statehood free from colonization and/or belligerent military rule.

      Israel's crimes aside, the Israeli demand is a nonsense.

    • Israel proclaimed its borders.

      May 15, 1948

      Letter From the Agent of the Provisional Government of Israel to the President of the United States, “MY DEAR MR. PRESIDENT: I have the honor to notify you that the state of Israel has been proclaimed as an independent republic within frontiers approved by the General Assembly of the United Nations in its Resolution of November 29, 1947, and that a provisional government has been charged to assume the rights and duties of government for preserving law and order within the boundaries of Israel, for defending the state against external aggression, and for discharging the obligations of Israel to the other nations of the world in accordance with international law. The Act of Independence will become effective at one minute after six o’clock on the evening of 14 May 1948, Washington time.”

      Samples of the recognition of Israel:

      USA 15 May 1948 “… as an independent republic within frontiers approved by the General Assembly of the United Nations in its Resolution of November 29, 1947…”
      Russia 17 May 1948
      Letter from Mr. Molotov stated: “Confirming receipt of your telegram of May 16, in which you inform the Government of the USSR of the proclamation, on the basis of the resolution of the United Nations Assembly of November 29, 1947, of the creation in Palestine of the independent State of Israel and make re-quest for the recognition of the State of Israel and its provisional government by the USSR. I inform yon in this letter that the Govern-ment of the USSR has decided to recognize officially the Stale of Israel and its Provisional Government.”
      British 27 April 1950
      “His Majesty’s Government have also decided to accord de jure recognition to the State of Israel, subject to explanations on two points corresponding to those described above in regard to the case of Jordan. These points are as follows. First, that His Majesty’s Government are unable to recognise the sovereignty of Israel over that part of Jerusalem which she occupies, though, pending a final determination of the status of the area, they recognise that Israel exercises de facto authority in it. Secondly, that His Majesty’s Government cannot regard the present boundaries between Israel, and Egypt, Jordan, Syria and the Lebanon as constituting the definitive frontiers of Israel, as these boundaries were laid down in the Armistice Agreements concluded severally between Israel and each of these States, and are subject to any modifications which may be agreed upon under the terms of those Agreements, or of any final settlements which may replace them.” (Thus far nothing has replaced them)
      Australia 28 January 1949 “… on the basis of the resolution of the United Nations Assembly of November 29, 1947…”

      Confirmed that it was fighting in and occupying territory "outside the state of Israel" on May 22nd 1948 May 22nd 1948 Israeli Government statement

      On May 22, 1948 UNSC S/766 the Provisional Government of Israel answered questions addressed to the “Jewish authorities in Palestine” was transmitted by the acting representative of Israel at the United Nations.

      Question (a): Over which areas of Palestine do you actually exercise control at present over the entire area of the Jewish State as defined in the Resolution of the General Assembly of the 29th November, 1947?

      "In addition, the Provisional Government exercises control over the city of Jaffa; Northwestern Galilee, including Acre, Zib, Base, and the Jewish settlements up to the Lebanese frontier; a strip of territory alongside the road from Hilda to Jerusalem; almost all of new Jerusalem; and of the Jewish quarter within the walls of the Old City of Jerusalem. The above areas, outside the territory of the State of Israel, are under the control of the military authorities of the State of Israel, who are strictly adhering to international regulations in this regard. The Southern Negev is uninhabited desert over which no effective authority has ever existed." ... " the Government of the State of Israel operates in parts of Palestine outside the territory of the State of Israel"

      Attempted to claim those territories 31st of August 1949 claim (as a UN Member state) ... Israel’s claim was refused

      There has been no legal agreement under which ANY territories "outside the State of Israel" on May the 22nd 1948 have been transferred to Israel.

      Probably a third of Israelis do not live in Israeli territories.

    • There is no obligation legal, moral or ethical for any state to recognize another in order for there to be freedom from occupation and/or recognized as an independent state. Numerous UN Member states do not recognize each other. They never the less exist and are respected as independent states.

      What is required, is for all states to have "respect for and acknowledgement of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force;" Israel has failed in this regard

      Nor is there any legal, moral or ethical basis for the demand to be recognized as a state or as the case of Israel, as the/a Jewish State. States do not demand recognition, they plead for recognition. In fact Israel itself is one of the most recent examples http://www.trumanlibrary.org/whistlestop/study_collections/israel/large/documents/newPDF/49.pdf

      No other state has recognized Israel as anything other than by its official name "THE STATE OF ISRAEL" per the declaration of Israeli statehood.

      There is also no legal, moral or ethical basis for Israel's demand that there be a peace treaty in order for occupation to cease. It's noticeably absent in UNSC resolutions on The Question of Palestine. Fact is, Israel was recognized whilst at war in other folks territories https://unispal.un.org/DPA/DPR/unispal.nsf/eed216406b50bf6485256ce10072f637/b4085a930e0529c98025649d00410973?OpenDocument

      Israel was also admitted to the UN whilst at war and in occupation of non-Israeli territories https://unispal.un.org/DPA/DPR/unispal.nsf/0/C96E0252E7710BCE85256D95006BC157

      The Israeli demand for non-Israeli territory for its own protection has no legal. moral or ethical basis. It's an incredibly stupid notion that leads to war. It's like a thief saying "I'm justified in taking your car so you can't chase me for having taken your car"

      The Israeli demand that Palestine be disarmed also has no legal, moral or ethical basis. All states have equal rights including the right to self protection either independently or in cooperation with their allies

      The Israeli demand that there be a peace treaty before any consideration be given to RoR is the most bizarre.

      A refugee returning to Israel, would be an Israeli citizen! No longer a citizen of the other country to the treaty. Think about it ...

      Israeli demands of the Palestinians are like all wholly holey Hasbara, Red Heifer sh*t! Simply nonsense

  • It's 7-0 against BDS on 'New York Times' opinion pages
    • @ Mayhem April 30, 2017, 11:54 pm

      //“Israel’s massive surge in settlement activity in the past ten years ”//

      "How we like to exaggerate to support our biased agenda.
      Israel has not built a new settlement in more than two decades"

      'new' wasn't the claim. How Zionists like/need to put words into other folks mouths in order to make a false accusation.

  • The liberal double standard on boycotting North Carolina and boycotting Israel
    • @ JeffB April 10, 2017, 9:38 am

      " ... There are countless examples of states with fuzzy borders and little interest in where their citizens may legally settle"

      Border disputes arise through both states claiming to HAVE borders. Name those in dispute who claim to not have any declared borders.

      Israel claims, nonsensically, it does not have borders. It also claims it was attacked by the Arab States. Tell be this you Zionist idiot, how, if a country has no borders, can anyone know if its territories were attacked? How can it logically know who should pay it taxes? Where do import and export duties start and finish? Where may its citizens legally reside?

      "The USA during the 18th to early 19th century being a good example."

      It's now 2017, time to wake up. In 1933 the US signed the Montevideo Convention on the Rights and Duties of States.

      " The state policy was to encourage westward expansion of its citizens well outside its borders. Probably the majority of states today don’t have enough control over their citizens and borders to control where they legally settle."

      You're talking more sh*te JeffB. It's now 2017 and there is only one active POTUS over all US states

      Why is it you keep coming here and like catalan et al, making a complete idiot of yourself?

      There are no arguments that logically, morally, ethically or legally favour Israel's ongoing illegal acquisition of non-Iraeli territories

    • @ JeffB April 10, 2017, 9:52 am

      "Actually using your rather unique 1947 borders .."

      Stop talking sh*t JeffB. They're the borders Israel accepted, proclaimed and was recognized by. There's nothing unique about it, nor is it mine. It was the position the Israeli Government took in order to gain International recognition. Seems they lied and they're still lying and useful idiots still believe them

      " ... even RoR is still asking for those refugees to return to Israeli territories"

      Israeli citizens have RoR only to Israeli territories. The only territories actually belonging to Israel are those proclaimed and recognized as Israeli. None of the territories Israel has acquired by war since 00:01 May 15th 1948 has been acquired by any legal agreement with Palestine

      Israel's Jewish population in those territories long ago outstripped any demographic threat from non-Jewish Israeli refugees with a right to return to Israel. For example, some 500,000 Arab Jews became Israeli citizens by 1953 from the Arab states alone, PLUS Jews from Germany and every other corner of the globe.

      The vast majority of Palestine refugees Israel prevents from returning were not from territories that became Israeli

    • @ JeffB April 10, 2017, 2:04 pm

      "The international legal regime rejects the concept of group guilt and genetic guilt ... "

      Israel's collective punishment of non-combatants seems to be at odds with the law

      "Under the international legal regime the descendants of “the invading E European Jews” are Israelis with the full rights to live in Israel in peace..."

      In Israeli territory. Which of course, to all but the Zionist poisoned mind, does not include Occupied Territories

      "What you are proposing is not enforcement but a total contradiction to the international legal regime. International law firmly rejects punishments for genetic guilt"

      Go tell your murderous Zionist pals pal..

      "And of course your proposal is an open invitation to unlimited genocide"

      Uh? European Jews can go live in Europe

    • @ JeffB Playing the Zionist accusation card

      Mooser didn't say you made the argument.

      Acquiring citizenship under the Law of Return in the Zionist Movement's state requires one to be Jewish from the mother's side, thereby inheriting her genes

    • @ JeffB April 9, 2017, 8:54 pm

      "You can’t have it both ways. If there is no birthright citizenship for the descendants of invaders then the Palestinians aren’t the owners of the place. Just remnants from earlier invasions."

      Interesting theory. BTW The scriptures tell us our Jewish forefathers invaded someone

      "I’ll wait for a representative assembly of anaerobic bacteria to determine which of us plant descendants get to live where"

      States have borders that tell us where their citizens may legally settle.

    • @ DaBakr

      Your concern is sooooo touching. If one didn't know any better one might conclude that you weren't being a hypocritical jerk

    • @ JeffB April 8, 2017, 7:00 pm

      "There is a huge difference in the relative demands. No one is asking North Carolina to stop existing, no one is asking North Carolinians vacate huge chunks of the state, no one is asking North Carolina to accept being flooded with a few tens of millions of Chinese immigrants."

      BDS is not asking fir Israel to stop existing, nor asking Israelis vacate huge chunks of the state, nor asking Israelis to accept being flooded with tens of millions of Palestinians.

      BDS asks for Israel to adhere to the law. For dispossessed non-Jewish Israelis to return to Israel and for dispossessed non-Israeli refugees to return to non-Israeli territories

      "There is no hatred of North Carolina."

      Anyone dispossessed in or by Nth Carolina? Is Nth Carolina occupying non-Nth Carolinians?? Is Nth Carolina acting illegally outside of Nth Carolina?

      " The boycott North Carolina movement says the state is fine they just want a simple policy change"

      That's actually all BDS asks of Israel.

      "There is no demonization of North Carolinians"

      Are they living in illegal settlements outside of Nth Carolina? Do they serve in an occupying military that protects illegal settlers outside of Nth Carolina?

      " There is no delegitimization of North Carolina as a state."

      It's not in breach of International Law or the UN Cjharter

      " That’s not at all the case with BDS which has an awful tone regarding Israel."

      Israel is in breach of International Law and the UN Charter

      "If BDS was pushing for a say and end to workplace discrimination or housing discrimination in a moderate tone that would be a comparable situation"

      If Israel wasn't in breach of INternational Law, =the UN Charter. If Israel was not acting illegally in non-Israeli territories. If Israel allowed its dispossession non-Jewish Israeli citizens return to Israel, that would be a comparable situation!

      Meanwhile, your drivel is full of the typical holes apparent in the wholly holey Hasbara

    • @ catalan April 9, 2017, 5:03 pm

      "Why in the world would I send money to a wealthy country like Israel? "

      A) So the answer is no, you wouldn't! B) Is that the Israel that begs for US Aid? The Israel that gets billions in German Holocaust compensation while Israeli Holocaust survivors live in poverty

      "Once all the billionaires in Israel give away all their wealth, maybe I would consider."

      A) Why are billionaires giving money to a wealthy country like Israel? B) So the answer now is, yes you would !

      "It always cracks me up how people here spend their time writing on behalf of billionaires like Assad or Putin – autocrats who live in castles, sleep with models and have armies of lawyers."

      A) None in this article or thread B) Trump & C) Netanyahu lives under a bridge does he? No lawyers at his disposal?

      " If I ever do give, it is to the homeless"

      Many Israelis homeless?.

      " I do not view myself as a Zionist to the extent that I am not a Jewish nationalist"

      WOW That proves it. I.e., you'll say anything.

  • Trump makes war, and everyone swoons
  • Trump's new war has neocons, Clintonites, and Israelis applauding, but left and realists dismayed
  • Boycott is Kosher
    • @ catalan ... WOW that's amazing.

      Meanwhile what BDS actually addresses., i.e., Israel's moral, ethical, legal and even logical bankruptcy continues unabated

      You musty be soooooo proud!

  • Read the full translated text of the leaked Hamas charter
    • @ catalan April 7, 2017, 5:27 pm

      "You and I do not get to define what the Palestinian state will eventually look like."

      That's right. Palestine was defined by default of Israel's only recognized borders, those it proclaimed effective at 00:01 May 15th 1948. Under International Law and the UN Charter the Palestinians have no legal obligation nor do they have any moral, ethical or logical obligation to forgo any of their legal rights to all of their territories

      Under the same laws and Charter, Israel has no legal ethical moral to logical right to any territories outside of its self proclaimed and only Internationally recognized borders.

      Israel is in fact obliged to withdraw from ALL non-Israeli territories , allow all refugees RoR and pay full compensation before the two states start negotiating what further territories the Palestinians are willing to cede to Israel.

      " ... on the Israeli side – they want a state within the 67 borders including the four large settlements with some type of territorial exchanges, preferably of the Arab towns."

      I see . The criminal state you cheer for does get to define what the Palestinian state will eventually look like, including swapping non-Israeli land for non- Israeli land in non-Israeli territories.

      Thanks again for showing folk the kind of vile little hypocritical immoral creeps are attracted to the Zionist cause

      Keep up th' good work

  • New book by Larry Derfner, the American-turned-Israeli journalist, crushes liberal Zionism
    • "Therefore, by deliberately placing Jewish civilians in subsidised settlements on stolen land deep inside occupied enemy territories (territories with which it is still technically at war), Israel is using the settlers as a “defense bulwark” (Koch’s words) or first line of defense (colloquially known as: human shields)."

      But wait ... there's more. They're also loaned money, specifically at interest, to buy a home specifically in an illegal settlement in non-Israeli territory

  • The Jewish revolution
    • @ JeffB April 5, 2017, 2:00 pm

      // Keeping Jews in concentration camps so that they could be persuaded/forced to immigrate to Israel was a particularly dark chapter in Zionist history//.

      "Come on. Cut the paranoia. How did a small group of several hundred thousand Jews in Palestine force the allied powers to do that? "

      The Zionist Movement has never been restricted to Palestine. In fact only one of the signatories to the Israeli declaration of statehood was from the region

      " The allies forced the immigration to Israel because they didn’t want their Jews"

      Bullsh*t. All countries have restricted immigration especially while at war. It's normal. Tho for some reason Zionists propagandists think Jews should be treated differently

      "Zionism had nothing to do with ... "

      Sure and the earth is flat

    • @ catalan April 5, 2017, 10:50 am

      "... having a nuclear arsenal, a huge airforce, and the willingness to use them does wonders. "

      So you cheer for the biggest bully and criminal. Why am I not amazed?

      Having nukes is a threat to use them otherwise there's no point in having them. So who's the threat in the M East and who uses that threat to act illegally in other folks territories with impunity?

      It Isn't any Arab or Persian state nor the Palestinians who have absolutely no obligations legally, ethically or morally to relinquish any of their legal rights to anyone, not even in negotiations. Certainly not to a state in breach of the law and making demands that have absolutely no legal, moral, ethical or for that matter logical basis

      "Look at Cast Lead. So on that topic at least, you agree with Israel"

      You're not fit to judge what I agree to

      "Waiting for divine interventions gives you, well, Hamas"

      90 years of the Zionist Federation colonizing Palestine , 39 years of Israel occupying non-Israeli territories illegally acquired by war in 1948/49, 20 years of Israel occupying even more non-Israeli territories in 1967, a response to over a hundred years now of Zionist fomented aggression is Hamas.

    • Poor chap

      @ JeffB April 4, 2017, 10:54 pm

      " JVP certainly advocates for anti-Zionism quite openly. But worse they conspire openly with enemies of the Jewish working for the destruction of the Jewish people"

      Jewish Voices for Peace are well, lemme see now. JVP = Jewish voices for Peace ... Jewish Voices ... Jewish at a guess

      Thanks again JeffB for showing folk that some people will say anything no matter how foolish it makes them look

    • JeffB April 4, 2017, 10:09 pm

      "I suggest you read the Torah. The God of Israel promises stuff to his people. Judaism isn’t beyond the transactional, the God gets worship and the people get the God’s protection and blessing."

      That the same God who is AWOL for every disaster including the Holocaust?

      "The Judaism of defeat and despair no longer fits a people that have regained their health."

      Ongoing Zionist Colonialism is in breach of the most basic tenets of Judaism.

    • @ DaBakr April 4, 2017, 3:11 pm

      "As in: pretending that, even in your wildest dreams, israel is a “failure”."

      Fact is, the UNSC has on numerous occasions unanimously adopted resolutions that remind Israel of its failure to adhere to the Laws and UN Charter (both binding). That's a failure.

      Fact is, the Zionist Movement's state has failed spectacularly to uphold the basic tenets of Judaism. Instead, it covets other folks property, has lied for over a century about its intentions. Lied about there being no Israeli borders. Lied about there being no Palestine. Lied to Israeli Jews as to where they can settle (in non-Israeli territories) . That's a failure.

      Fact is, Israel hasn't prevented Jewish Israeli civilians from illegally settling in Occupied Territories where they are very likely to become collateral in the struggle against an ongoing and illegal occupation. That's a failure.

      "And even funnier when someone is already too stupid to realize how absurd, asinine and blind they are to recognize that despite their anger, despite their jealous rage, their indignity of it all, the justice of an ancient people reunited with their land "

      Fact is, there's nothing ancient about today's illegal Israeli settlers and if there was it'd be irrelevant to the Laws Israel obliged itself to uphold governing what a state may not do in other folks territories.

      Fact is, if they're Israeli, Israeli 'land' doesn't include any non-Israeli territories illegally acquired by war and never legally annexed to Israel by any agreement or legal instrument. No territories outside of Israel's recognized borders is Israeli.

      Fact is, dislike for Zionist bullsh*t and the idiots who wallow in and propagate it isn't anger or jealousy. It comes from a desire to see peace between Israel and its non-Jewish neighbours, instead of the continual wars perpetuated by the continual theft of non-Israeli territories by the so called 'Jewish' State. A state currently in breach of the most basic of Judaisms common sense tenets

      "Too dumb to know that some people’s wait 1000s of years to gain back what they believe lost in conquest ... blah blah"

      Hilarious. From the Roman era to 1897, Jewish folk could have returned, achieved citizenship, bought land and settled anywhere in the alleged Jewish People's Historical Homeland. Fact is few bothered. Even Herzl could have in his life time. He didn't bother nor did his family. In fact only one of the signatories to the Israel declaration of statehood was from the region.

      Go cry to the Zionist Federation pal. They're the people who screwed any chance of Jewish folk living in anywhere in the alleged Jewish People's Historical Homeland of "5,000" yrs ago. They demanded a state. They got it. They proclaimed its borders. It was recognized as requested. Nothing outside of that state is Israeli

      "Too ignorant to understand that the world we all live in is comprised of one conquest (or, as these hysterically funny fools like to charge: colonial project, lol) upon another and another."

      The ignorance is yours. It has been illegal to acquire territory by any coercive measure, including war since at least 1945 and the advent of the UN and its charter

      " So certain they are of the just nature of their cause. That palestinians, born from mostly Syrian and Jordanian arabs after Israel was re-established might have to wait, acquiece or even worse,negotiate face to face with their ‘enemy’ who after all, has only been around for what?… 5000 give or take. "

      A) Syrian and Jordanians have no claim or RoR to non-Syrian or non-Jordanian territories and they aren't making any claims to or for RoR to any Palestinian or Israeli territories

      B) The State of Israel has only existed since 00:01 May 15th 1948.

      C) Only refugees from the territory that became Israel (effective 00:01 May 15th 1948) have RoR to that territory and; Israel long ago achieved a Jewish majority that by far out weighs any possible demographic threat to Israel with its recognized borders

      D) The vast majority of Palestine refugees only have RoR to non-Israeli territories

      "They it might very well take another 100 yrs before one side understands that their maximalist demands are a total failure and you can’t reset the clock back to may’67 or ’47 or 1916. Those times and the opportunities that cane with them are gone"

      Yet you're trying to set the clock back 5,000 yrs. That's powerful stuff you been takin'. Since 1988 the Palestinians have been willing to cede 78% of their territory to Israel for peace. Israel's response has been to illegally settle and demand more

      "There is no example from the history of earth where a powerful nation willingly gives up strategic, spiritually and archeologically central and developed land to a people sworn to hating then and allied with every single one of the enemies the nation has."

      If it isn't Israeli territory, Israelis have no right to it. Expect blow back

      " not only is Israel successful but wildly sucessful by any measure of the word."

      Deduct 68 years of illegally exploited non-Israeli resources. Deduct billions of dollars paid Israel by the Germans for Holocaust victims now living in poverty in Israel. Deduct billions in US aid, deduct billions in non-Israeli financial support over 68 years.

      If success is measured in illegal activities in non-Israeli territories, indeed it is successful.

      Successful at being immoral, unethical, criminal. Bravo

    • Hilariously funny watching someone play stupid. Especially when they're already too stupid to realize how transparent their nonsense is

      @JeffB April 3, 2017, 8:09 pm
      "Israel has failed because the UN disagrees with something Israel is doing?"

      No. Israel has failed because what Israel is and has been doing in non-Israeli territories is illegal. Israel has failed to adhere to the law. Failed to even uphold the basic tenets of Judaism.

      " Huh? That doesn’t even make sense. "

      To an idiot for Zionist colonization of course it doesn't. You're not allowed for it to make sense. Your job is to spread bullsh*t and act stupid even tho it makes you look completely and utterly moronic, heartless and very very sick

      "The UN disagrees with the USA all the time. So what?"

      So, two wrongs don't make a right and so it doesn't alter the illegality of Israel's actions in non-Israeli territories.

      "I’m not old enough to know of a pre-Israel."

      Must be very young and extremely clever to be so young and yet able to use a computer, make up bullsh*t, spend time on a discussion board defending the indefensible but not be able to read historical documents easily read by anyone with an internet connection . Here, try for once http://wp.me/PDB7k-Y plenty to choose from, all verifiable. Or do you lose pay if you read anything factual?

      "The Israel I see is a pretty spectacular country. Not perfect, but a really exciting, diverse wonderful place to live"

      So you live in the USA. AMAZING! Well that's just great. Now how about Israel f*ck off out of ALL the non-Israeli territories it has acquired by war since proclaiming its borders in order to be recognized. Never been tried.

      "The Israel that exists with its health GDP growth, vibrant culture rich overlays of cuisine… is far better than what a minimally successful Israel would look like. I love what I see. I think the strengths outweigh the imperfections 20-1"

      Oh yes. GDP, cuisine, are far more important than ethics, morality, adhering to legal obligations. Acquiring wealth by illegally exploiting non-Israeli resources, LYING to Jews in order to loan poor Jews money at interest specifically to sell them non-Israeli land in non-Israeli territories is sooooooooooooooooooo admirable

      Thanks again for the demonstration of ZioValues

      Keep up th' good work

    • @ JeffB "I was there, I saw it"

      A worthless statement, especially coming from a proven liar for the Zionist Movement's continued colonization of Palestine

      " Nothing that dramatic happened.... There was no broad rejection ..."

      A Jewish group being called Antisemitic isn't rejection? WOW!! Best you tell those who constantly use that accusation against Jews

      >".The AIPAC conference had to charge up to $600 each to keep people below the 20k the venue could handle. "

      Bullshit. Thousands of far more popular events happen across the world at much lower ticket prices and they DON'T have a problem limiting numbers. The AIPAC conferences raise money for AIPAC.

      " Seems to me a little horrifically mistreated minority in one century becoming something like the 30th largest economy, the 15th most powerful military and a European standard of living in the middle east ain’t so bad."

      Strange. There are LESS Holocaust survivors in Israel (approx 38.5%) than in the rest of the world. Israel's economy has been supported by compensation to the State of Israel from Germany, thru support from non-Israeli finances, US aid and from exploiting non-Israeli resources. Oh and by shafting Israeli holocaust survivors, many of whom live in poverty after Germany has paid billions

      "I suspect many of the worlds groups suffering under tyrannies of larger more dominant groups look to Israel as a light of hope"

      You suspect based on what? ZioPoop?

      "Does INN even allow for non-Jewish members? They certainly don’t seem welcoming to non-Jews..."

      You're hilarious. https://ifnotnowmovement.org/about-us/

      Thanks again for showing us the vacuous arguments and nonsense offered as debate by supporters of the ongoing colonization of Palestine

  • Leaked Hamas charter illustrates movement's maturation as a political actor
  • In gratitude and hope: A message from Omar Barghouti
  • 'New' Netanyahu policy on settlements promises Trump less building, and Israeli settlers more
    • There has been no change since 1897 and the Zionist Congress decision to colonize Palestine by loaning money at interest to specifically poor Jews on condition they put themselves and their families on the front lines. A policy still practiced by the Israeli Government today

      The Zionists have missed opportunity after opportunity for peace. http://wp.me/pDB7k-pE

  • With white nationalism on the rise in the US, JCC bomb threats stoked fear and solidarity
    • Purposefully manufactured Antisemitism to bolster the Zionist cause isn't actually Antisemitism.

      Further more if the bomb hoaxes were by one person it was only one act .

  • JDL member arrested for attacking Palestinian-American teacher ran anti-Muslim website
    • "Wait… The US is being taken over by Jews? "

      If you say so DaBakr

      Maybe you should lay off whatever it is you're dependent on

    • @ asherpat April 1, 2017, 1:40 pm

      "So what is the most likely scenario?"

      Having nothing asherpat resorts to making it up (a favorite past time of idiot apologists for Israel's documented intransigence)

    • Poor DaBakr

      @ DaBakr April 1, 2017, 10:02 pm

      "All 10 of the NE US JDL members have difficult inoperable growths in their brains which effect their behavior. Mossad got together with aipac and basically chained them to outposts like cannibal zombies who sense danger and attack."

      If you say pal

      "Meanwhile Nayfeh just got another installment for his retirement fund from the PLO."

      Source?

      "The crescent shaped cut will probably become the most important and exciting moment in his life among The assortment of Israel hating groups"

      DaBakr is on a roll

      "I wish I could say I understand the pro-palestinian strategy of always shooting themselves in the foot but I suppose they believe that slow and steady will win for them what they have already been offered and turned down."

      Israel has offered to swap non-Israeli territory for non-Israeli territory so it can keep non-Israeli territory. I.e., Israel has offered no thing

      "Afaics, Abbas and his cronies have one strategy:
      . Push the Palestinian maximalist demands as simply the opening discussion. Then, in addition demand that the vote in what is now Israel and the West bank be changed into a system of 1vote for 1 person.
      . The smartly strategized little caveat to those who push this crap"

      YOU'RE the one pushing crap pal . The Palestinians have been willing to cede 78% of their rightful territories for peace with Israel. It's been on the table since 1988. The majority of the World's state have recognized Palestine as it declared. Israel refuses what it has been offered, wanting, illegally taking and illegally settling more before any agreement.

      " that the (now what is it, 5,6 or 7 million Palestinian U.N. created that are refugees as well as residents of over 20 Arab nation’s. They would slowly be allowed to trickle back into pre-’48 armistice lines causing the populating to shift from Jewish Majority to non-jewish minority."

      Bullshit. A) The UN didn't create any refugees. The inability to return to their rightful territory creates refugees. Israel refuses their RoR.

      B) Israel long ago reached the point where a Jewish majority is guaranteed within its only recognized borders (of 00:01 May 15th 1948). There has been virtually NO increase in non-Jewish immigration since 00:01 may 15th 1948, , whereas the Jewish population increased by some 500,000 from the Arab States alone by 1950. There has been a further influx of Jewish folk ever since. The demographic threat is ZioPoop

      5,6 or 7 million refugees do not have a right to return to the territory ceded to Israel on May 15th 1948. Only the folk whose normal place of residence and their lineal descendants have a right to return to the territories that became Israeli. The vast majority of Palestine refugees have RoR to NON-Israeli territories outside of the state of Israel

      " That this is the unspoken goal of al..."

      The Zionist mind readr is truly miraculous

  • 'Jerusalem' on Gaza TV set is as close as many Palestinians will get to real thing
    • Watching people move the goal posts is entertaining.

      @ catalan April 2, 2017, 10:04 am

      "Minds change when interests change."

      1st they don't change/. Then when shown to be an idiotic notion, minds do change

      "That’s why “movements” based on solidarity like BDS always fail

      I wonder if Charles Boycott realized

      Montgomery Bus Boycott
      South Africa
      G4S ending its Israeli prison contracts
      Veolia ending settlement its bus services, selling its stakes in the Jerusalem light railway
      Soda Stream left the West Bank. Closed its flagship eco-store in Brighton UK
      Flannels fashion chain stopped selling fur products
      Nestlé now has a zero deforestation policy
      Fruit of the Loom 2010
      De Beers forced out of Gope
      etc ... all boycott failures according to ZioPoop theory

      " the only thing that falls apart is the individual being." ... AND idiotic theories and Zionist crappolla

      " The universe keeps going indifferent..."

      LIke a ZioBot, never ending. Ignoring inconvenient facts, logic and any previous conflicting ZionBot statements.

    • @ catalan April 1, 2017, 7:31 pm

      "Surely you don’t think that the purpose of posts is to convince anyone. Minds do not change."

      Uh? So the world is still flat. Interesting theory.

      " I think people post for vanity, we like to see our words out there. And what is vanity? It is the fear of the great emptiness. When you put something out there you are unconsciously “fooling” fate, as if there is something permanent about you. That’s probably the source of all art and artifice."

      Another interesting theory

  • J Street attends rightwing anti-BDS summit-- and gets called 'anti-Semitic'
    • @ Mooser March 31, 2017, 12:33 pm

      //“Jeff is lying regardless.”//

      "Maybe not. Many people insist that a man has to know what the truth is before he can lie about it."

      JeffB has been shown irrefutable evidence of Israel's intransigence. Like all ZioBots he either doesn't read it, thereby showing he isn't interested in honest conversation or he ignores it. Either way he's dishonest.

  • Palestinian-American teacher brutally attacked by Jewish Defense League outside AIPAC conference
  • Trump is 'doing a better job' than Obama in his messaging on Israel, says liberal Zionist rabbi
    • They really have lost the plot

      " I think that from the Cairo Speech through the Iran Deal till the very last few days of the UN resolution [2334], the Obama administration suffered from a perception problem with American Jewry. "

      The a slightest thought reveals gaping holes in the Israeli and pro-Israeli America Jewry narrative. The problem is in NOT thinking

  • The rabbi's daughter isn't buying AIPAC's defense of Israel on apartheid charge
    • @ yonah fredman March 29, 2017, 4:00 pm

      " the “existential necessity” involved in keeping out the heirs of those expelled"

      Jewish folk were expelled or fled in the Roman era. Can you see an equal existential necessity of keeping their alleged heirs out of Palestine?

      BTW the demographic existential threat to Israel is a propaganda nonsense.

      Simple maths and Israeli statistics tell us that Israel long ago passed the point where Jews would be a minority even if ALL the rightful refugees and their heirs returned to Israel of 00:01 May 15th 1948

      The existential demographic threat to Israel is only in NON-Israeli territories illegally acquired by war, I.e., in what remained of Palestine after Israel proclaimed its borders effective in order to be recognized

      Furthermor. Israel in its Declaration of statehood welcomed non-Jews to remain in Israel. Why if they were going to be a demographic threat?

      Were the signatories stupid or liars? Are we really expected to believe they didn't know about the ethnic cleansing going on under Plan Dalet?

    • @ yonah fredman March 29, 2017, 7:10 pm

      "A military occupation of the west bank is justifiable on security grounds, control of the mountain Ridge overlooking the heavily populated coastal region"

      You're tawkin' wholly holey Hasbara.

      No state has any more right to security than another state, especially thru invasion AND occupation AND settlement or acquisition of territories by any coercive measure, including war. All states, even a Jewish State, does not have the right to invade and claim other folks territories for their own security.

      "... the military occupation of the west bank was accepted by un resolution 242,"

      More bullsh*t.
      A) UNSC resolution 242 was on "Peace in the Middle East" between warring UN member States. Palestine had no UN status at the time

      B) UNSC Res 242's result can be seen in the Egypt Israeli Peace Treaty. Israel undertaking to withdraw from all Egyptian territories was THE essential condition for peace between those two states.

      UNSC resolutions on the "Question of Palestine" http://www.un.org/en/sc/documents/resolutions/2016.shtml
      tell us in no uncertain terms what is required of Israel in respect to Palestine. UNSC res2334 is just one of some 11 reminders of Israel's legal obligations. E.g;

      Resolution 476 (1980) Adopted by the Security Council at its 2242nd meeting on 30 June 1980
      ...
      ...
      1. Reaffirms the overriding necessity to end the prolonged occupation of Arab territories occupied by Israel since 1967, including Jerusalem

      "the need for negotiation was clear to those who composed the resolution ."

      Indeed it was. The negotiation is clear by the result of the Egypt/Israeli Peace Treaty, which cites UNSC res 242. Negotiations were when and how Israel would withdraw from Egyptian territories to Egypt's "recognized" borders in order for peace to be assumed

      The Palestinians are under no obligation what so ever to negotiate away any of their legal rights to any state, not even a Jewish state.

      " And until such negotiations, the presence of israeli forces in the west bank was implicitly accepted and never once condemned by the unsc.

      MORE BULSH*T!!!

      UNSC res 2334 doesn't contain the word negotiate. Read it.and then at least attempt to stop trying to justify the unjustifiable.

      Israel is in breach of its legal obligations, has been since 00:01 May 15th 1948

    • "How do I explain to my daughter .."

      Keep lying. That's how you learned

  • Will assassination lead to war?
    • @ catalan

      thanks for again showing readers the vile nature of an apologist for Zionist colonization

      you're doing a great job

      keep up th' good work

      'wealthy American Jew' cute stuff. As if anyone here believes a proven liar

    • @ catalan March 30, 2017, 11:06 pm

      "Why would I “whine” to the Zionist movement?"

      I'm well aware you wouldn't. They'd disown you

      " What is its address and phone?"

      Cute.

      "At any rate, of all people I have nothing to “whine” about. I have a job, money, American citizenship and decent health."

      So why are you here whining? http://mondoweiss.net/profile/catalan/

    • @ catalan March 30, 2017, 4:59 pm

      "So I am not sure what the Lebanese are waiting for. Why not just do it, finish the job, liberate Palestine?"

      Simple
      A) Israel has far superior military technology. They're not war mongers. Unlike Israel they've never started a war and;

      B) Unlike Israel, they've actually adhered to the law and had "respect for and acknowledgement of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force;" ( The meaning of "recognized boundaries" can be clearly seen in the Egypt/Israel Peace Treaty which cites UNSC res 242 where Israel was required to withdraw from all Egyptian territories to Egypt's recognized boundaries)
      BWT The Lebanese Military did not engage in 2006. The Lebanese resistance, rightfully, has. http://wp.me/pDB7k-uD

      "After all they are officially at war."

      Israel could withdraw from all non-Israeli territories as it did with Egypt. There's actually no legal, logical, military, moral or ethical reason why it doesn't

      "Either way, given that they have wars every 7 or 8 years, it’s only a matter of time"

      None started or caused by Lebanon

      " I guess it’s game over for Israel"

      Israel could adhere to the law for once. Never been attempted. The Zionist Movement is Israel's and Jewish folk's curse. Go whine to to them. They've been the reason for so many missed opportunities http://wp.me/pDB7k-pE

  • The martyr’s daughter: a review of 'Where Can I Find Someone Like You, Ali?'
    • @ Theo

      "instead of fighting the israelis..."

      The Palestinians and Arab States had been using legal arguments since 1922. They tried every peaceful means to avert being colonized by foreigners before resorting to violence then terrorism because of the simple fact that peaceful means and legitimate armed resistance, like today, achieved nothing. The Zionist colonization of Palestine continues

      The state of Israel is to blame for repercussions to its illegal actions

    • @ Jon66 March 29, 2017, 8:28 am

      "Agree to disagree."

      Sure. You want to just walk away from supporting crimes against humanity and the repercussions of committing those crimes. I believe the expression is quite deservedly, Go f*ck yourself!

      The State of Israel's illegal actions are wholly responsible for the repercussions to those actions. No one forced the Zionist Federation in 1897 or Israel post 1948 to decide to colonize other folks territories.

      If the Zionist Federation had not insisted on a Jewish State instead of the fantastic deal offered in the LoN Mandate for Palestine (Article 7) albeit in non British territories, and;
      if Israeli forces had not been in other folks territories on the day Israel's borders were declared and;
      if Israel had not willfully dispossessed some 711,000 non-Jews and;
      if Israel had not attacked ALL of its neighbors and;
      if Israel had not decided to illegally settle its citizens in non-Israeli territories,
      no one would have been subject to the repercussions for those actions.

      You and your lying wholly holey Hasbara bearing friends simply don't want to get it. No one actually likes scum who lie, cheat and steal and no one likes those support those who lie, cheat, slaughter innocents, dispossess people in order to take their lands. The moment you start to be truthfull, people you thought were your 'friends' now, will stab you in the back. You want to be associated with their kind? Be my guest, you deserve 'em

      Israel and anyone who supports Israel's illegal expansionist policies are simply wrong and in breach of the basic tenets of Judaism, which, on behalf of an alleged Jewish state, is quite simply bizarre

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