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The War of Ideas in the Middle East
'I think people are failing to put this Grass poem in relative perspective."
No they most certainly ain't!
You just don't get the evident hatred and racism that zionists feel and exercise against Arabs, moslems and christian europeans. So what, like you need a 'statement' of annihilation from the zionist regime? Don't you know they prefer to work in the silent shadows on their 'clash of civilization' plan? Don't you know that in order for zionism to be a majority in the world they gotta get rid of, well, the majority opposition? Don't you know that they've already decided on the 'Samson Option" if the plan fails?
I know you've heard of 'poetic justice', so now you're learning about 'poetic truth'. There is NOTHING untrue in Gunter's poem. Truth is NOT slander.
Here's what Israel National News published the other day by Itamar Yaoz-Kest in response to Gunter's poem:
"For it is the right of the Nation of Israel to finally shut the gates to the world after it leaves this place (not of its free will!), and we have the right to say, at the price of the 3,000 year old fear: “If you force us yet again to descend from the face of the Earth to the depths of the Earth – let the Earth roll toward the Nothingness.”
Here's Yaoz-kest's poem to Gunter that accompanied his statement above:
"Danger,
I want to be a danger,
I want to be a danger to the world,
so that after my destruction, not a single blade of grass will remain on the face of the Earth,
or a single blade of grass for Gunther Grass’s pipe,
upon the Earth where, since I was born, I pose a danger to the world.
Because it is my right!
It is my right to live or die while annihilating my annihilators, without riding again as a crying-boy in a transport train,
Into the world-vacuum, while placing my head in the lap of a mother who is disappearing into the fresh air of the Land of Wotan,
and the urine tin darts dark-yellow specks onto the walls of the cabin – like gunshots that spray
a yellowish-reddish liquid from besides the train guards, and among them – maybe – the soldier G.G., also, wearing a steel helmet."
Dude, don't you know how fatally outta control a traumatized child becomes if they're 'indulged' instead of given therapy and reality-checks?
The other day on another Gunter Grass thread, I wrote ponderingly whether Gunter had started a German Spring to free the German youth from the dictatorship of the holocaust. Perhaps I wasn't too far off the mark.
So many chains, so little time - ultimately, this is the universalist message of Gunter's poem.
Link please to your "90+%". Or just stop throwing around assumptions.
Or else say: '90+% of jews I've met are zionists' - cuz clearly you don't know what you're talking about.
p.s. you don't have to be an American jew to be an israeli firster, but you do have to be corrupt - just look at our frigging congress!
Likudism's PR is outta touch with American jews. Looks like they only speak on their minority's behalf hah!
Or maybe perhaps perchance American jews are WAKING UP mister Western Sky!
And what makes the arrogant israelis think that Gunter wants to spend a relaxing vacation on a stolen Apartheid beach in the first place?! I bet he wouldn't want to go anyway for all the gold in frigging China!
I'm just glad this story's got legs cuz israel showed it's ugly fascist face and lost a whole buncha cultured customers this week. It's just been great reading the global blogs' reaction to this archetypal battle between a moral individual and an immoral nation. It is sooooo clear by now that the majority of the people on this planet, including a sizable chunk of Americans, are not aligned with israel due to it's Apartheid and ethnic-cleansing practices, which are now common knowledge - thanks to the internet.
It is clear that israelis have squandered, almost to the last few drops, all the empathy and goodwill that humanity's bestowed upon them since the holocaust. They have grimly betrayed and offended the memory of their grandfathers and grandmothers immeasurable suffering for what exactly? So that they can steal property and sneak nukes into the holy lands to annihilate neighbors with?
Blows my mind with bafflement why euro jews had to go the criminal racist zionist way.
Mashallah mashallah! Goodness I just love Falastine! Please please oh please can I be an honorary Palestinian? Can a true blooded Palestinian bestow this honor on me?
I want to be Palestinian and do the dabke under an old olive tree in Palestine - woohoohoo rock-out!
Coooooooh I've been loving so many mondo stories lately!
Terrific job modo guys and girls!
What a cool motley crew of town-criers you got yourselves there, Phil and Adam.
Eljay,
I like you and still do. I wasn't "attacking" you, just critiquing your critique of poetry, your sweeping generalization.
You shoulda really said 'most of the poetry I've read is pretentious and crap', not "most poetry is pretentious and crap". See what I mean my friend?
I really like you, really really really do, but I just had to put the record straight here cuz you were damning a muse you've never met.
Poetry is everywhere, it doesn't have to be written to exist.
Eljay,
There are good poems and bad poems but only good POETRY - what 'looks' like a poem on the page isn't necessarily 'poetry'. A lover of poetry will understand this and clearly, you are no poetry lover.
A beautiful line in a poem can easily be taken out of a poem and it would be a poem in and of itself for it's power and resonance, hence Lorca's line.
I don't expect you to understand any of the above, after all you did say: "I find most poetry to be (pretentious and/or self-indulgent) crap". I mean your use of the word "most" is clearly philistine and "subjective". You appear to hardly know what poetry is - and you have NOT read every single poem on earth to make THAT assertion.
If I were you, I wouldn't discuss topics I didn't understand or throw around sweeping statements on unstudied subjects.
But you are permitted to have an opinion, as uninformed as it maybe. And it's worth? Not much if you come across like a "pretentious and/or self-indulgent crap" merchant.
eljay,
The poet Percy Shelley famously said that "poets are the unacknowledged legislators of their time".
Gunter Grass is not considered a poet: he is an author who occasionally writes 'prose' poetry. And his controversial poem does indeed 'legislate' our political time and concerns.
I hesitate to say this but you (like most of humanity) must write terrible poems if you think that the art of poetry is "crap" and "pretentious". However, unfortunately, the art of poetry does attract loonies, charlatans and poetasters who easily can give that impression to the inexperienced poetry reader.
You ask any great author or playwright and they will all tell you that the highest and purest form of writing is the art of poetry - it's also the most difficult to 'perfect'.
Too bad you're unable to connect to it's soulful source. Your negative statements are really a reflection on you and not on the art of poetry.
There is a point in judging poetry that is NOT subjective. For instance you can say a sonnet by Shakespeare is a good poem but you personally don't like it - which tells us that you ARE objective.
There is only good poetry, eljay - the bad 'versions' are not considered poetry in the slightest.
As the great Spanish poet Lorca said: " we bury ourselves to the waist in mud to help those looking for lilies".
The above quote is neither "crap" nor "pretentious". But if you can prove otherwise, then I will tip my hat to you and eat my 2000 books of poetry page by page.
Mabrouk MJ!
Oh to be free as a bird!
Yes. Don't you know how zonists work the floor? Oseary, being in the position of some power in the music biz, befriends and recruits rock star goy into supporting israel without them realizing or knowing the true history of zionism. We can call that 'rockwashing'.
A girlfriend of mine (maybe ten years ago now) was asked out on a date with Anthony (the lead singer) but she didn't want to go alone so she asked me to come with her - but I had another girlfriend visiting from new york that weekend so she too tagged along. When we arrived at the restaurant, Anthony had brought a friend of his, Guy Oseary, executive at Madonna's record label. After some ten minutes of the table getting aquainted, Guy asked my visiting friend what ethnicity she was and she replied that she was half lebanese and half Peruvian. Well I'll be damned, Guy suddenly lost complete interest in conversing and put his hand down his t-shirt and pulled out a giant star of david gold pendant that just dangled there gaudily on his chest for the rest of the dinner - and he never made eye contact with us from then on. My friend and I understood immediately what the cold, covert hostility was all about and we just ignored him back too and would talk only to Anthony, who was completely unaware of what just happened. A few years later, Guy Oseary, the rude racist, published a book called 'Jews Who Rock'.
I mean with 'close' friends like that, there's no chance in hell you'll ever get a positive reponse to your letter, Tali. The Chillies are bff with a racist jewish supremist and they don't even know it.
So in under one week Apartheid israel manages to pronounce cultural icons like Ema Thompson and Gunter Grass as antisemitic for criticizing israel's warmongering and ethnic cleansing - exposing to the cyberactive multilingual world what a decrepit, delusional and vindictive bunch zionists really are.
Well I'd say this is proving to be an important week in the media wars regarding the push for a strike on Iran, israel's illegal and vast stock of W.M.D.'s, and the unbearable western hypocrisy that's endangering the world and the futures of all children on earth.
Gunter's poem is a giant earthquake. And the label of 'antisemitic' ain't working the way it used to - judging by the 90% web commentaries expressing support for Gunter (and Ema's) message. People aren't buying it cuz it's clear to them that the term is being used to slur recognized peaceful citizens, and it's clearer to people too that the term is being abused by the jews themselves. Ironic huh?
Did Gunter start a German Spring - to free the German youth from the dictatorship of the holocaust?
I would even go as far as saying that I count this week as the beginning of the end of the holocaust industry.
'The Crisis of Zionism'.
Hahahahaha!
Followed by his next book: 'The End of Zionism' - out at your local bookstore soon.
Now I would buy THAT book for sure - not to read, but to put in a glass frame and hang on my bathroom wall.
So double wait tok,
Did the diabolical israeli ashkanazim set it up or what?!
And just so we're clear - many Arab jews, like the Lebanese jews, gave the middle finger to the criminal israeli swndles. Why? Cuz Lebanese jews, like most Arab jews, are not religious whores and squatters.
toky,
Sorry mate, you're utterly mistaken/propagandized. The governments that expelled the Arab jews (native jews) fell into the israelis PR and black op traps set up by the diabolical ashkanazi zionists for them - them ashkiz WANTED native jews to be expelled (for suspicion of dual loyalty) so they would be FORCED to move to occupied Palestine and enhance the 'jewish' demographic.
The ONLY people who gained a wicked advantage conflating judaism with zionism are the rogue euro israelis - not the Arabs, be they jew, moslem or christian.
Annie,
I had no idea that fredblogs needs Arab love so badly! I mean unless all Arabs loved all jews with all their hearts now and till eternity, well the zionists just don't feel 'complete' now do they?!
Never mind he's conflating jews with zionism - again! So needy! So frigging boring!
Fredblogs,
Go back to history school you miserable rusty old robot!
Your racism stops you ashkanazis from 'knowing' what an Arab really is, or what an Arab really loves.
Again I repeat: It's the zionism STUPID!
asherpat,
It's the ZIONISM stupid.
It ain't the "jews" that the natives object to and want to be rid of - it's vile racist repressive colonialist ZIONISM!
Same same same happening with my posts - ughah ughah ughah!
Same here too! It's taking far too long to get ANYTHING done around here!
Alec,
Am having a bad experience clicking and clicking and clicking and clicking and clicking and clicking and....
H E L P!
Is there one click to open ALL comments? I wanna read and see ALL comments all at the same time - pleeeeeeeeeeeze fix it, reset it, etc.
Thanks alec. I thunk I understand.
I'll second ahadhaadam.
Please MW don't make me click on my mouse more times than I have to. I'm already verging on carpal tunnel syndrome and need to avoid unnecessary straining or repetitive movements.
And also, having this new automated 'hide and seek a comment', well it has an odd feeling, like the comments are separated from the article. Intentionally detached?
"I'm sure...."
So where's the link mister?
And by the way, FREEDOM FIGHTING ain't terrorism. Terrorism is you living by force of arms on someone else' land.
Sean,
LOL! FANTASTIC LIST!
But I don't think that hophmi understands the logic that a minority should indeed make peace with the majority (of the world) to insure it's long term survival. It would appear that the holocaust has made illogical fools of many a zionist jew.
It's also enabled them to defer personal and collective responsibility for crimes they've committed or enabled against non-jews.
I find it unspeakably wicked that the european zionist jews were planning the ethnic cleansing of Palestine even before WW2, and up to date, they continue, post holocaust, with this evil scheme that they themselves were victims of not too long ago.
Have they no frigging shame?!
The israeli zionists have spent every single day, and I mean every single day since WW2 conducting slo-mo ethnic cleansing - while using the cover of the holocaust to hide behind, or as bludgeon to whack the whole world with.
Well the world now, after 60+ years, is ducking and avoiding the hit. Why? Because the zionist israelis have become just too insanely ridiculous by now - as sean's long list of negative associations clearly demonstrates.
Outta control and driving right off the cliffs of humanity and into the abysmal abyss.
By frigging choice!
Insisting on being fatally unique.
A beautiful piece of prose, Phil. Soulful yet political.
But, really, did you have to include "Religion is the thing that gives your life meaning"?
Sartre, Nietzsche didn't inform you? Socrates? LSD?
Don't you know that god has nothing to do with religion?
Good grief not that miserable lying scum Howard Grief! Yeah what a time-waster (and time-wasting should be declared a crime against 'personal life-force').
No amount of convoluted twisting of facts by zio eggheads can ever hold up.
All you gotta do to know the truth is talk, like I have on many occasions, to victims of the Nakba. There sits the precious truth and hidden history of the suffering Palestinians.
"Them zios are very clever".
They sure ain't smarter than me FreddyV.
Big difference between 'clever' and 'dishonest'.
And yeah sure so "clever" they're digging their own graves with their children's hands.
Holy cow not even a jew is allowed to criticize israel!
Strikes me that ashkanazi jews are obsessed with the word 'slaughter' - hot damn they use it soooo often! An objective criticism of israelis becomes a 'slaughter of the jews'. Even a lame neutral comment on israel like: 'I prefer Lebanese humus", becomes a 'slaughter of the jews'. ANYTHING that doesn't 'praise' israel has indeed now become 'a slaughter of the jews'.
I call this collective psychosis: manifest narcissism. Which eventually leads either to the nuthouse, or the grave.
The only people in uniform I trust are firefighters.
Everyone else in uniform and bearing arms supplied by the government is a Janus.
Cigargod has a point: even if the Swiss are occupiers of another land, they'd be behaving like the idf too. But what makes the idf particularly more morally gruesome and repugnant is that they're fresh out of a holocaust and doing onto others what they themselves have much suffered from. What separates the idf from other immoral armies too is that the idf, for a long and suffering sixty-four years now, have been conducting their violent ethnic cleansing with immense glee and arrogance.
But really, all occupiers are vile violent entities, regardless of their nationality. And all global police forces refer to the same list of violent methods when ordered to crowd-control a 'sensitive' event, or clear a street from angry protestors.
Batons, water hoses, teargas, rubber-bullets, tazers, , snipers and attack dogs: yeah every police precinct in every city in the world owns a hefty stockpile of the above.
The question "why do they hate us?" really belongs to the Palestinians.
Perhaps that despicable mister pollak can tweet us the answer.
I mean, what the heck has a single Palestinian ever done to him?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What a charming bunch of racist white-collar thugs and enablers of ethnic cleansing.
What would the msm say if mister pollak was uttering the very same offensive words about the 'israelis', the 'jews', or whatever the heck you wanna call 'em?
Personally, I call the Palestinians the REAL semites.
And the israelis?
I call them european colonizers high on religious zealotry and land piracy.
And speaking of Palestinian supporters, George Galloway tweets: "Long Live Palestine", after a landslide victory in a UK by-election:
link to guardian.co.uk
link to haaretz.com
There is NOTHING on the planet more ignorant and brainwashed and nausiating than mayhemism.
Just get the eff outta Palestinian mister european and enoufayer hasbara lies and justifications for ethnic cleansing. Nobody believes what you and your army of hasbara robots say anymore - people are reading the history of the region for REAL on the internet and NOT your revisionisms and fascist propaganda and swindles.
The whole frigging Apartheid state of israel is an illegal and immoral settlement!
I can't shake off the association between "bluewashing" and pornography.
Saddam refused UN inspectors entry into Iraq too. Then he changed his mind. Then he changed his mind again. Then s'more mind-changing.
We know Apartheid israel's got more to hide than Saddam did. In fact, turns out that Saddam had NOTHING to hide.
Man them israelis spend the most copious amount of time denying their bullying by bullying.
Bullshit country!
For what it's worth, I found this in a yahoonews article, unrelated to the I/P conflict:
"Last month, Wodka, a New York-based vodka bottler, came under fire for a billboard that touted its beverage as "ESCORT QUALITY" at "HOOKER PRICING."
In December, the company was forced to remove one of its Manhattan billboards after residents and Jewish groups complained its message ("CHRISTMAS QUALITY. HANNUKAH PRICING") was anti-Semitic."
link to news.yahoo.com
Actually it's 'Khamerica' and 'khkhkhkhamas'.
When fascism uses 'creative' numbers to whitewash infanticide and ethnic cleansing, you get haters-with-calculators like giladg on the scene.
Why don't we just declare everyone in the world, apart from Apartheid israel, a buncha anti-semitic terrorists and go the hell to war with everybody all at once and be done with it already!
"A lament for America’s Jews":
Inside the corridors of power, there we sat down and wept
link to economist.com
The internet is every authoritarian and oppressor's nightmare.
We the global collective were stuck in the dark for so long till a mind-blowing miracle happened and with such luminosity it literally shifted the consciousness of the people of the world.
The internet, this truth instructing entity with no inhibitions, is the (unfleshed) prophet of today and the golden guide to a more truth-filled future.
Our renaissance forefathers would indeed applaud.
Finally! Something frigging useful and in the hands of every man and woman!
A megaphone for the meek.
Resistance SHOULD be punitive to a brutal occupier. Don't tell me you think hamas or hizbollah or islamic jihad should launch roses and orange blossom at your colony to reward your numerous crimes of infanticide and ethnic cleansing.
Because israelis keep electing politicians who promise to keep the occupation going and settlements expanding, well like it ain't 'collective punishment' now is it - more like you guys are reaping what you sow and getting off lightly if you ask me. The people of Apartheid israel should be punished because they approve and desire the occupation and covet Palestinian land by force of arms - and let us remember here that they have been doing this since 1939.
No 'civil' argument on earth can get you any sympathy so long as your colony continues the unjust occupation and its despicable Apartheid practices.
Your islamophobia is not so subtle, mayhem.
But let us take your (un)logic one step further: how come sooooo many terrorists are of the male gender? Surely this means ALL men should be regarded as violent killers - assholes at best.
Klaus,
You're using "Marxist/Maoist" like an insult when both have more soul than zionism could ever dream of.
Never mind that you lump Marxist and Maoist together - you're clearly undereducated in the biographies of both Karl Marx and Mao Zedong.
Why is it that self-appointed 'teachers', especially of the zionist variety, are some of the most ignorant people on the planet?
(I bet the Moose knows the answer to this).
Shmeul's excellent deconstruction of Beinart's political confusions leaves Beinart, as well as all so-called liberal zionists, standing bare-naked and flummoxed before the intellectual globe. 'Liberal' zionism is an oxymoron. What will it take for the well-meaning zionist jewish collective to sober up from their delusions of righteousness and realize this? Is there a word in the English language to describe a pathology of tribal inverted guilt? Do nice jews think that it is possible to separate zionism from racism and ethnic cleansing? Cuz it sure hasn't since its inception in the 19th century. And the proof is everywhere for everyone to see.
Let's be clear here also on what the majority of the middle east wants: yes to judaism and a big fat NO to zionism in the holy lands that lay in the heart of Arabia.
Liberal zionists should pay close attention to the above - it ain't just about zionists and their 'special' needs, it's also about the needs of the lives of some 380 million Arabs.
The targeted snuffing out of Palestinian children and unarmed Palestinian civilians on a daily basis will keep creating no fear, but deeper and deeper loathing of the Apartheid state of israel.
And strangely, Apartheid israelis seem to enjoy their status as the most loathed people in the region - possibly even the world.
Elizabeth,
You live under a moon rock don't you?!
Just google 'mercenaries in libya' and have a peruse.
People out there, israel has contracted Blackwater for black ops to destabalize ALL Arab countries, including Syria.
Upsidedown world here where the mossad are in bed with both Blackwater AND the islamic salafist terrorists.
Apartheid israel can stir all the blood and poop in Arab countries as it wants - it ain't gonna save it from humiliation, defeat and dismantlement. Coming to your TV screen soon.
link to irandefence.net
Israel-onlyier!
Even by name, Bradly Burston don't sound like he's a mid east native. It's a waste of time to have given this 'genteel' occupier/colonialist more a a line or two of response, annie.
Actually mayhem, YOU are "one of the most despicable people on the planet" - cuz at least Helen Thomas ain't got her boot on the necks of ANY natives.
Palestinian christians, really Arab christians, hate israelis because of their brutal ethnic cleansing colonialism. Heck I know some UK and USA jews who hate israel for the same reason as Arab christians: their fascist violence and greed.
It's clear that israeli zionists are more threatened by Arab/Palestinian christians than by Arab moslems - hence the zio's relentless fantasy of the 'clash of civilization'.
Revolting apologists for ethnic cleansing and Apartheid like mayhem are not welcome as foreigners in the mideast - not by moslems or by christian Arabs.
I know this cuz I sat with a bevy of bikini clad christian lebanese ladies on a beach in lebanon a coupla years ago and they ALL, with their bare hands, wanted to administer a coup de grâce upon the israelis for what they've done to Palestine and Lebanon.
Nobody, especially zionists, should ever underestimate the righteous and utter rejection of zionists by christian arabs.
Seafoid my friend, I think the Fairuz lyric is:
"The house is ours. Jerusalem is ours". Both lines are morally and historically correct and Arab masses swoon to hear her sing them.
You WILL be sorry, Dickerson Hahahaha!
I voted Shadia cuz she's a better singer and her beauty is more exotic and not fake. Shadia doesn't have to wear a golden thong and shake it all up for us to know that she has a graceful, sleek and naturally athletic body.
I do like Beyonce's dancing but her voice can be annoying sometimes. I like her face too but I think her clothes are really tacky.
But the Arabian prophet Mohamad did exist. Plenty proof of THAT around.
"It is well known that the Arab population of Jerusalem fears living under Arab rule".
Hahahhahahaa! Some lies are really funny.
And you've read and studied the Koran and met all them 2.3 billion moslems to positively ascertain your 'tolerance theory', right? Oh just get outta town you're full of it and high on the clash-of-civilization fantasy. It is well known that there is by far less violence and plunder and incest and rape in the koran than in the old testament.
Besides, we're talking about Apartheid here mister, not YOUR religious intolerance!
I bet you're one of 'em religous thugs who enjoys spitting on Jerusalem Christians as they walk to their churches - maybe even gleefully drive a bulldozer over the old house of a Jerusalem moslem family eh.
Your abnormal racism is intolerable but crushable!
Dismantle your Apartheid system if you're looking for approval from the 'normal' world!
Jennifer Mizrahi was by far the biggest liar/propagandist/apologist for the colonial israeli Apartheid settlement enterprise on the panel.
Everyone else seemed well-reasoned and sincerely seeking a 'compromise' for peace.
Citizen,
The way you put it all, well that's just got to be the saddest story told about the greedy leading the blind.
Or is it the blind leading the greedy?
Lovers of sadism. Inspirers of hate.
"they are liars".
Surely you mean: boldfaced liars and cold-blooded murderers.
Oh poor little innocent isreal boohoohoohooooooo!
Reality check: if I find a stranger in my house, my front or back yard, I'm gonna get my gun out buster and use it - and Apartheid israelis are in someone else' house, their back AND front yard - so I don't have a problem with attacks on a violent and armed intruder/occupier.
And no amount of hasbara uttered by a million zionist terrorist is gonna change my mind either.
The idf are testing their Dome Shield in 'preparation' for the big on (after our elections and just before isreal's elections). And the Palestinians in Gaza are the safest to take pot-shot missile attacks at to test the 'effectiveness' of this shield. Also killing a dozen or so overnight keeps the ethnic-cleansing-by-death quota nice and climbing.
Diabolical that they even use their own people as bait!
R.I.P. sweet-souled fallen from Gaza. Rest in the sure knowledge that your families will soon be victorious and liberated and free from occupation.
Viva Falasteen!
Try this link too for Inside Story 2012 - "The AIPAC primary".
link to youtube.com
Inside Story US 2012- "The AIPAC primary."
In the 25 minute show, Al Jazeera's Anand Naidoo looks at the role AIPAC in the 2012 race. On the biggest day of the US primary season so far, three of the four Republican candidates took the time to address the post powerful pro-Israel lobby in the U.S. either in the flesh or via videolink. Why?
Anand discusses with John Mearsheimer, the co-author of The Israel Lobby and US Foreign Policy; Larry Greenfield from the Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs; and Hillary Mann Leverett, a former White House and US state department official.
link to aljazeera.com
Why are the American congressmen's lips so tightly sealed? Don't they know we already know their funky secret?
The chandelier halo over the head of their messiah?
Yesterday I laughed to read a poster on yahoo news calling another poster an "israel-firster' for dissing obama and loving on bibi - and boy he said it with gusto and conviction that it started a chain-reaction upthread and people were calling each other "israel-firster" and "terrorist-firster" and "mullah-firster" and "fallout-firster" and even "poophead-firster" hahahaha I kid you not. Yeah it was comic surrealism to see how the term 'isreal-firster' has caught fire even at the lowly dirty yahoocomments dive bar.
Tsk tsk tsk "... the center cannot hold".
It was like watching a B movie about some weird cult where the leader employs a 3rd grade show-and-tell technique to get applause from his cool-aid drinking minions.
Bibi shoulda said: 'To stop Iran's nuke program, we will even sacrifice tel aviv'. Then he shoulda showed them photoshopped images of tel aviv after an iranian retaliation. You'd better believe he's got a file of those images in his bottomless desk drawer.
Images of a destroyed tel aviv may have sobered up everyone in the room, except of course for our 150+ congressmen/women attending.
It's just unbelievable that a country that's publicly said they're short on fire hoses, is prepared to start ww3 in their (stolen) front and back yard. Not even Saddam Hussein was this criminally insane.
Hahahaha 99% of NYT readers are anti warmongering Apartheid israel!
Will whoring congress take note that more and more Americans can see them being pimped out by successive israeli leaders and consequently under this new phase of citizen enlightenment change their profession to politics? Oh wait, whoring and politics are indistinguishable.
Somebody need set up 'whoreholics anonymous' meetings on Capitol Hill - so many will be seeking help sooner than later.
MHughes,
(Love southern England - spent much time in St. Ives during winters in the 80's - my spiritual home).
Okay mondo folks, so this post here is number 323 on this thread. What a lovely popular topic eh. Seriously, I had earlier TWICE asked Adam and Phil to reconsider the mass banning. Many of you, in your own way, voiced disapproval for the bannings too but few have actually put in a request for it like I did. Our message to them on this thread is looking a bit discombobulated and disjointed. That’s why I think we need a comprehensive consensus for Adam and Phil. I ask you therefore to reply-post below with a yay or nay for the motion of re-instatement.
I say YAY!
For years Richard Witty, using various combinations of words, was allowed to refer to the Nakba as a 'necessary evil for the greater good'. I call that insidious Nakba denial-ism. Phil and Adam and mondo mods allowed him this despicable expression of detachment from reality and humanity for years. I don't know if they did this cuz they weren't 'in touch' with the equivalency between Nakba-denial and holocaust-denial at the time, or that they were utterly and catagorically anti-censorship, which now they're grown out of, apparently. It's confusing with them two at the moment. Can't quite tell where they're coming from.
Anyway, Nakba denial can be expressed in many different ways: from loud to whispered. But the worst way to nakba-deny, for me personally, is the 'insidious' way, Richard's way. Let's have a look at the definition of the word insidious shall we:
Insidious: adjective:
The insidious bond between big money and political decisions: stealthy, subtle, surreptitious, cunning, crafty, treacherous, artful, sly, wily, shifty, underhanded, indirect; informal, sneaky.
So many other posters were guilty of this, too numerous and too irrelevant at this stage to mention. ALL of them zionists. In fact, come to think of it, I never met a single self-proclaimed zionist who did NOT deny the Nakba in some measure or another. Clearly, you can't be both a zionist and a Nakba-admiter.
Thanks Walid for your 'colorful' interlude - and thanks for filling us in with your wide-ranging yet succinct newsbroadcast from the so-called Arab Spring. Why don't you every now and then submit an article about the (un)progress of all that jazz in the mideast - well it's gotta be from you cuz I don't see me any other Arab voice around here - them voices left ages ago boohoohoo!
Habibi Walid - what grand smarts you got - always learning something or another from ya.
Phil and Adam,
Please take note that this thread, which is a few days old now, has glaringly more comments than any other of the many threads you've been posting for the past few days. Interpretation? Most bloggers are finding it hard to swallow the new rules, especially because these rules go against the concept of the 'war of ideas in the middle east' that lured us in in the first place. Now suddenly we find out that it really ain't about the 'wars/ideas/middle east', but about jewish americans and zionism.
I've noted that most goy on mw feeling oppressed by the new rules while most jewish posters are giving support to the rules.
One thing's for damn sure though: 90%+ of this community support the reinstatement of Jeffrey Blankfort et all. So please I ask you Adam and Phil, please pretty please bring 'em back - for the right reasons. It's distracting us all from other I/P issues to have this weird injustice reverberating at the grassroot of our beloved camp.
I likesya teta. Mind, I do like mosta folks I encounter.
I especially like your impatience and disgust with the status quo - even though I don't agree with some stuff you bust up about.
Forget it people! Most American jews are un-convertable. Waiting for the collective American jewery to bring justice to the holy land is like waiting for Godot.
If anything, it's in the hands of slumbering American goy to push for policy change - and that ain't exactly a promising endeavor either.
Yes you can educate the public, make 'em aware etc, but I fear that even American 'awareness' will not change a frigging thing with regards to facts-on-the-ground in occupied Palestine.
Only a god-made or man-made cataclysmic event can cleave asunder the Gordian Knot that is the zionist hold on our foreign policy.
And I'm using the phrase 'god-made' here with fistful of irony.
Phil and Adam,
Please give us a reason why you are unable to un-ban Jeffrey and Potsherd?
How does it serve mw to have jeffrey outta the picture?
Thank you Phil for showing us, the blogging community, our due respect and responding to our many requests for clarifications.
I appreciate your concerns regarding antisemitism but please be aware that you are banning the discussion of certain facts on the history of zionism during the holocaust. Why create a 'missing link' in the overall picture? Why not have the strictest moderation applied to such sensitive topics instead of an out and out black-out of information on the subject matter and the harsh banning of valuable contributors?
Because your sudden bannings proceeded the new rules, it leaves one thinking that the bannings were personal and not at all judicious. A knee-jerk reaction instead of a measured policy. A hysterical instead of a rational and equitable decision. Draconian, if you like.
So I ask you here to please consider pressing the reset button and reinstate everyone back to this valuable forum. I have no doubt that if you did this, the quality and content of the returnees will be better self-moderated, unburdening therefore your suffering moderators. And if any bloggers should cross the line in the sand you've clearly drawn from here on, then you reserve the right, guilt and blame free, to reject publishing their posts and possibly even ban them.
Please Phil and Adam, reconsider your decision - your site and your cause will be better served for it, truly.
I announced that I would go into self-exile if no word about this affair was forthcoming from you by the 1st March - it's the eve of the 1st of March right now hahahaha - what's a few hours between old friends eh?!
Please reset the button, Phil and Adam. Bring everyone back: Jeffrey, Potsherd, Witty, eee, etc. Distinguish yourselves from other websites by a growing inclusiveness of opinion, not by narrowing down a complex debate with numerous tentacles. Non-jewish bloggers here can be simultaneously sensitive and astutely probing of the history of zionism. You must trust that. Otherwise you are playing into the hands of extreme zionism that imposes taboos on discussion of their history to keep the world in darkness.
We can't find the right answers to any problem by just feeling in the dark. We need light, light, and more light on the I/P conflict and you guys hold the torches in your hands. Please don't hinder illumination and therefore enlightenment. The very essence of this site after all is about enlightenment.
The Huntington Library grounds in Pasadena-California has the most mind-blowing variety of cactii on the planet - hundreds! Trrrrrrripy!
(uhuh and you thought we couldn't talk about cactii and other spiky topics here on mw?)
Steve: "Can you imagine those countries with the bomb?"
We don't have to "imagine" an Aparhtied expansionist regime with a nefarious and illegal stockpile of nuke warheads, fast-friend. You guys started the nuclear arm race in the mid east years ago - and when you did, did it ever occur to any of you Einsteins that sooner or later, some other mid east country would surely, by hook or by crook, 'acquire' them, just like you did? Do you guys actually believe you're supermen forever? Huh! I bet you do.
Do you deny any of the above?
Brother Dan, I'm a sistah hahahaha! As I freely admitted here:
link to mondoweiss.net
Sorry MHughes - my bad - typo weirdly connected to a McHughes I know who has a similar temperament to you.
Hahahaha seafoid, you're a funny brother.
Actually it ain't so interesting to me to be on a repeat loop of rebutting the same lowly hasbara 101 ad infinitum. Life is too short and I've been doing this fighting for Palestine for some thirty five years now.
Plus I actually don't believe USA/our words and debates here matter anything to the plight of the Palestinians. We can debate here all we like and it ain't gonna change a damn thing. Unfortunately, only israel's military defeat and humiliation, as Finklestien asserted, can create any meaningful change to the status quo. I was here on mw to inform and be informed and I feel I've done plenty of that already - but I won't enjoy doing it further with all this weird censorphip-0-meter waving over my head.
I feel like a bird that's entering a cage every time I visit mondo these days. So many important topics are off limits. Why don't they call it 'the war of limited ideas', instead of 'the war of ideas'?
Anyway, I really dig your smarts, seafoid. And I would love to be in your good company the night Palestine is liberated! Wallah wallah!
Thanks McHughes.
For me it's about the disrespect of the administrators to their blogging community - that they don't deem us worthy of their time and clarifications after many bloggers requested them to explain the rationale behind banning JB, combined with allowing suddenly and simultaneously a whole buncha new 101 hasbarados to take us all through the same old tired argument with their lies and misinformation.
The administrators' willful silence over this matter means that they'd rather consigned this matter to the realms of conspiracy theory and such, instead of out and out addressing the many requests by bloggers for an explanation. Personally I hate conspiracy theories, preferring facts, facts, and more facts. Heck for all I know, I myself might accept their explanation if it were afforded me - but no explanation is evidently forthcoming and the whole weird affair is swept under the carpet.
For a site that claims dissemination of truths and facts, the administrator's silence in the face of the biggest controversy MW's ever had, becomes offensive. Even suspect.
Disrespect causes loss of trust, we all know this. And so why would I invest valuable time and creativity into a questionable internet project? I was kicking and reacting to hideous zionism before mondoweiss and before even the internet and so no doubt I'll be kicking and kicking way after mondo times too.
The suffering Palestinians have been stabbed in the back by so many of their so-called friends in the west that I cannot possibly bring myself to be part of the hand that holds a dagger against them. And I fear that mondo's administrator's silence over Jeffreygate is the sound of the pulling of a knife from it's casing.
Yap, this silence is a betrayal of the cause for justice in the holy land.
Phil and Adam, I salute all the good work that they've done. But I cannot salute the way they've handled this weird and important controversy.
Walid,
It's not about Phil being "more Arab than an Arab". It's about justice. Pure and simple. Supporting justice with everything you have. I fear that mondo has lost this quintessential focus. Or rather, it has decided to willfully re-focus on pleasing them wotchamacallits oh yeah 'liberal' zionists. An oxymoron we've dissected here over the years - a label that lacks any merit or realism. Why should I allow myself to submit to verbal and intellectual censorship because of a bunch of dudes who're interested in maintaining the status quo in Occupied Palestine, albiet a 'cleaner, liberal' version of the occupation? Come on, things have clearly changed around here and I see these changes as benefiting zionism and I see the mw administrators comfortable with this. My 'karamah' simply won't allow me to participate under these conditions. This indeed be the last day of my posting here... till I see the 'change' being changed again.
Syria, Lebanon, Bahrain, Egypt etc are ALL topics that directly effect zionism in the mideast, but neither editors seem to be able to grasp this and choose instead to write about the Dersh and the Shmersh and other local zionist neurotics. I'm fed up being offered by them a picture of the middle east that's the size of a stamp. The bigger picture, the big bad picture - we never get that around here. We kinda used to. What happened? Clearly their agenda has changed and I cannot support this change.
As to the theatrics and antics of Abu Mazin, well he's off my radar, Walid. I never think about this inconsequential little man. And if I have to give a quick thirty second thought to his latest idea, I'd say it's for domestic consumption, riding on the backs of the international groups who're organizing a peaceful march to Jerusalem next month.
Thanks Walid for all your contributions here. Always know that I am a great lover and supporter of both Palestine and Lebanon. Tis true, I really heart the beautiful and brave Lebanon.
Chaos,
You and I go back a long way - back to the hufpost days. We've done years of blogging and I think we've put a dent or two in the ziorobot's temples. This will indeed continue, with or without mondo. You, or anyone else, can always find me on: link to friendfeed.com
... till at least Adam starts showing some respect for his regular bloggers - by actually reading the blogs! It sure don't look to me like he even reads his own blogs - so outta touch he is.
Palestine don't need mondoweiss and her new zionist bedfellows. Every Palestinian writer should think twice about writing articles for this newly annointed zionist publication. Their interests are no more about justice in the holyland, but how to please privileged American zionists who serve the brutal occupation through their willful ignorance.
I am disappointed by this pitiful direction that mondo has chosen to take.
The tag of 'war of ideas' is now false. It should really be changed to 'no war of ideas please, we are genteel zionists'.
Phil and Adam have set down writing rules that they themselves would not accept from others. No siree Bob, I will not live and write under the rules of a vain dictatorship.
Goodbye.
Typical aipacer! Attack the messenger!
You're serving a foreign rogue country with more UN resolutions against it than Saddam and mullah's regimes have combined - you're a servant of an Apartheid system actually, over the interests and founding principles of your own country.
Why do you do that? Explain otherwise how aipac is around primarily for the sake of American interests.
Duh yeah - we know the israelis are freaking like never before and we know they've painted themselves real nice into a masada corner and yes indeedee we know the next reflex will be to attack iran. We don't need no mister kissinger tell us THAT. We're just figuring out the 'when' of it all.
I reckon not this year, well not this side of the election. They wanna see who wins first (preferably they want some flat-earth bible republican who's happy to kill iranians for jesus, someone actually dumber than Bush jnr - can you tell they're working real hard at this plan by simply looking at the republic presidential line up?). I reckon they'll time it like they timed their assault on gaza, between election victory and inauguration. Or Lebanon 2006: timed before israeli elections. They always pick around some election time or another to milk the real PR politic out of it - less resistance to aipac when government is in a procedural flux.
Now remember that Russia and China only last week, after decades of cloaked silence, made their intentions on the mideast clear vis-a-vis Syria and Iran: they're adamantly against any further 'western' military 'intervention' in the mideast (they still remember the dark scheming daggers that killed Libya and denied them their regional interests). Evidently, Russia and China are also of the mind that without controlling the mideast, they will not be able to realize their dreams of superpowedom. They're not whispering this, they're asserting it now. Which makes usa need to take a second look at the bigger picture (while they send Hilary to shriek out her statements of displeasure for show), and what they see is the following: we do not have the resources or the means, and even if we wanted to, we are not presently ready to confront an alliance between Russia and China and simultaneously cater to isreali military actions that threaten Russian and Chinese interests. Simply, we cannot presently risk for the israelis to lead us to such a confrontation.
Ooooh it just gets harder and harder for the israelis to spread war and pestilence eh.
President X could be in the white house right now and he'd do exactly what Obama is doing: contain, contain, contain and call it state diplomacy, even though it will be perceived as weak leadership and spinlessness. Truth is, we don't have the power to influence or initiate any more, just power enough to 'contain' - we know if we push China and Russia, we will be quickly drained.
We're in an effed up position - thank you israel and thank you especially to congress.
When israel finally has a psychotic violent fit against iran (it don't care about China or Russia or America or Timbuktu) , it will bring on it's own ruin, well, and our own too. And from then on it will be clear to historians that over the decades, the names of ALL congressmen and women who actively aided and abetted aipac will be remembered forevermore with hostility and disdain.
That' a coolest story, yourstruly. Thankings.
Nothing is sacred - disrupt EVERYTHING!
White Americans attacked by israeli firsters. Things are moving forward very nicely.
I can't help myself: I feel glee to see israeli firsters visibly shaken to the point of violence in pubic places heh heh heh.
Is Natanyahu preparing the residents of tel aviv for a blitzing? No. Could the great mighty israel even put out it's Carmel fire? No.
So it ain't gonna happen. Cuz tel aviv is the first target, and the daimona is on the radar.
The Aprtheid israeli politicos are sabre rattling for local consumption. Aparthied israeli citizens have become acutely pathological, thanks to decades of the politics of fear, and they need to daily hear that their politicians are gonna kill Arabs and Iranians before they think them sound and electable. Sure they got war fever, but they got paper balls and they'll never go it alone.
All israel is interested in is setting-up a war: not starting it, or fighting it.
It's the only thing they can do really.
But with the advent of the internet and free-flowing information, and in the midst of the random earthquakes of the so-called Arab Spring, their chances of success at a false-flagger is diminishing. Why else do you think they're building settlements faster than ever before? Cuz they know that they gotta take firmer root when the local Arab/Iranian tsunami hits 'em.
dim,
Here in the USA, the laws allow you to shoot an intruder on your property. NO ONE feels sorry for the slain criminal.
Wake up - there is NO one state solution, or two state solution. There is only a steadily approaching big bad war. And we'll see then who's made of what.
I'm sure you've got your second passport right and ready.
LeaNder,
What the heck dude?! YOU try avoiding the use of the word 'nationalism' after 64 years of brutal occupation!
Go read Mahmood Darwish to really 'get' the meaning of Palestinian 'nationalism'.
And you wanna censor what 'words' an occupied people 'should' be using? You're being prissy and ridiculous now!
Citizen,
Thanks pal for the cognitive interception - respectus to yooz! But to not be able to talk about israel to your jewish inlaws, why that's a living tragedy. Bitter-sweet, as usual, Citizen dude.
Okay David Samel, could be my misinterpretation - falling off the context crest here - and yes I think I am confusing you with someone else (I can't think of the other guy's name, but it's similar to yours) - sorry 'bout that.
But still, your question remains questionable. I mean, there ARE Palestinians who've made a clean and honorable success of themselves etc in the diaspora, and even under brutal occupation in occupied Palestine. Yes, granted it's a minority, but it keeps progressing, despite the ongoing Nakba and crushing Apartheid.
And whereas some euro jews had israel to go to and 'thrive', and other euro jews settled and thrived some more in post-holocaust, sympathetic, USA and Canada, etc, the Palestinians en mass have not had such luxuries as either their own country, or the open arms of the world. Just imagine what it would be like if you were a Palestinian passport holder going through JFK Airport, or any western port-of-call for that matter. Yeah pretty scary humiliating shit!
Just because hollywood ain't screening any Palestinian life successes and heroics, it don't mean they don't exist. In abundance.
David Samel,
"... Jews who escaped Europe went on to lead new, productive lives elsewhere and never looked back; why couldn’t the Palestinians have done the same?"
And give up their ancestral heritage and cemeteries? Are you still so arrogant? So demanding of an occupied people? Have your checked your subconscious colonial inclinations lately? Seriously man! I'm a great admirer of your posts: they're usually full of truths and humanitarianism, but every now and then you hark on about how the Palestinians should just forget about their ethnic cleansing injustices and 'get on with it'.
Disappointing commentary, to say the least.