Total number of comments: 59 (since 2009-10-19 10:53:18)
ymedad
Jewish, living in Shiloh in Israel, activist
Website: http://www.myrightword.blogspot.com
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He had a few other errors, actually and basically, threw the Jews to the lions.
link to myrightword.blogspot.com
in the army? don't know but I think even one would be more than enough for you so what's your point? do you stand in front of the mirror and laugh to cause yourself joy?
silly. did I write that? in the past 40+ years living in Israel, I have spoken with, debated and discussed matters with many hundreds of Arabs. I meant what I wrote "Arabs I know" and I meant it. I did not mean, imply or suggest whatever suits your fanicful fancy. so you can stop tickling yourself.
and they put it up because Arabs, catching Jews on that road, might, alright, probably, wouldn't think twice about doing physical damage to the car and its occupants. it is a warning sign by Israel but the reason is that Arabs don';t like Jews on "their" roads so you are being a bit sophistic.
as for equality and freedom, every Arab I know and the vast majority of Arabs polled prefer living in Israel than any other Arab state including "Palestine". A fairly recent poll, conducted in Arabic, surveyed the opinions of Arabs living in Jerusalem. 35% of these people said they would choose to become Israeli citizens while 30% said they prefer being Palestinian citizens.
The Pechter Poll for the Council on Foreign Relations can be examined here: link to pechterpolls.com
Don't yopu guys know anything about which you have an opinion?
i know you are trying to be sacrcastic but be careful, some might presume you an ignoramus. Since I want to make sure you aren't, check out the boundaries of 29 November 1947 as per the UN delineation:
...The boundary of the hill country of Samaria and Judea starts on the Jordan River at the Wadi Malih south-east of Beisan and runs due west to meet the Beisan-Jericho road and then follows the western side of that road in a north-westerly direction to the junction of the boundaries of the Sub-Districts of Beisan, Nablus, and Jenin. From that point it follows the Nablus-Jenin sub-District boundary westwards for a distance of about three kilometres and then turns north-westwards, passing to the east of the built-up areas of the villages of Jalbun and Faqqu'a, to the boundary of the Sub-Districts of Jenin and Beisan at a point northeast of Nuris. Thence...
Did you notice the use of Judea and Samaria?
a) Vladimir Jabotinsky asserted at the time that Palestine is a territory whose "chief geographical feature" is that "the Jordan River does not delineate its frontiers but flows through its center."
b) you cannot deny that the rights awarded to Jews in quite a particular fashion applied between 1922 - 1948 to the territory now know as the "West Bank" but more properly, as the 1947 UN Partition recommendation delineates, Judea and Samaria.
c) If Israel is in Palestine, so is Jordan. Imagine the ramifications of that. Remember: in 358 territory east and south of the Dead Sea were separated and called Palaestina Salutaris. Shortly thereafter, Palaestina Primera (capital: Caeserea) and Palaestina Secunda (capital: Scythopolis, the modern Beit Shean) came into being. Palaestina Salutaris was renamed Palaestina Tertia (capital: Petra). The Jordan River did not divide these regions. When the Arabs conquered the area in 634, they inherited and kept the Roman divisions for over three centuries, so their provinces too straddled the river.
Consider too that the thirteenth Zionist Congress passed this resolution in August 1923: "Recognizing that eastern and western Palestine are in reality and de facto one historic, geographic, and economic unit, the Congress expresses its expectation that the future of Transjordan shall be determined in accordance with the legitimate demands of the Jewish people." Or that the Jewish National Fund owned land on the east bank until the late 1940s.
d) forget Jews. In 1926, 'Abdallah asserted that "Palestine is one unit. The division between Palestine and Transjordan is artificial and wasteful." Prime Minister Zayd ar-Rifa'i told an interviewer in 1975 that "Jordan is Palestine. They have never been ruled as two separate states except during the British Mandate. Before 1918 the two banks of the Jordan River were a single state." King Hussein in 1981 pronounced that "Jordan is Palestine and Palestine is Jordan." As recorded in the Palestine Royal Report, July 1937, Chapter II, p. 20, the whole of Palestine west of the Jordan was thus excluded from Sir H. McMahon’s pledge’.
Again, we are still left with Judea and Samaria as part of the territory where Jews were granted at least the right to live in "close settlement" no matter the political resolution of any conflict, this way or that.
So, what's your point?
How can I do that? The Arabs have rights of residency, even the League of Nations assured the "safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion" along with the purpose to "secure the establishment of the Jewish national home". And the Mandate authority was obliged to "facilitate Jewish immigration under suitable conditions and shall encourage, in co-operation with the Jewish agency. referred to in Article 4, close settlement by Jews, on the land, including State lands and waste lands not required for public purposes." That "land" included Judea and Samaria. And you do know that "The Mandatory shall be responsible for seeing that no Palestine territory shall be ceded or leased to, or in any way placed under the control of, the Government of any foreign Power." and so, at the least, as I assert, Arabs and of course Jews could and should be living in Judea and Samaria.
But Arabs were not awarded any special rights or any primacy. As decided, it was: "clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine". The definition of the Mandate as supervising the reconsitution of the Jewish national home highlighted the 'non-Jew' without regard to any other race or religion as protected as a citizen but not as one who could wrest political dominance from the Jewish people.
I, too, protest restricted roads:
link to myrightword.blogspot.com
(i'd hate to imagine where your head is stuck into)
quoting B'tselem is as good as quoting Ahmadenijad on non-nuclear Iran. but, to the point, look and see (like in 3rd grade):
link to myrightword.blogspot.com
link to myrightword.blogspot.com
just remind me about the comparison with the civil rights movement, when were Southern blacks using terror tactics which obligated a stringent security apparatus which led to oppression?
by the admission of the manifesto, "While it is not officially forbidden for Palestinians to use Israeli public transportation in the West Bank", there is no official "segregation", etc. And there is no apartheid as Arab vehicles drive the same roads Jews do (and there are plenty of roads Jews cannot drive along as they are Arab-dominated) while Pal Authority leaders announce no Jews will be permitted to live in their state-to-be.
So, is someone on the wrong bus here?
Hey, c'mon guys, you really don't believe that the NYT (Tom Friedman, Roger Cohen, et al.) will become pro-YESHA, do you? A journalist and his editors need to know the subject they report on in its entirety. You're not against a free and independent press now, are you?
this is silly. can a Jew be a citizen of Saudi Arabia or Jordan?
Pssst. Actually we have been investigated. For years. Even the NYTimes had a big story a while back. Front page. It's legal. Of course, the IRS might be pressured by the Administration but I stil think it's the law the rules in America, not progressive liberal ideology.
I presume then that lying and fibbing in the service of a good cause is a worthy act. Thanks for the heads up.
Heck, who needs a loyalty oath or a slide into fascism when you have the death penalty for selling land:
"The decision came in response to a ruling by a Palestinian court according to which such acts were only a “minor offense.” PA Prosecutor-General Ahmed al-Mughni appealed against the ruling to a higher court, arguing that the sale of land to Israelis was a “major offense” punishable by death.
The appeal was accepted."
link to jpost.com
Oh, sorry, that bit of state regime was in the PA.
Try Chapter 4 in link to amazon.com
Ramadan Kareem.
I have another view of which two states are involved actually in the two-state solution:
link to cgis.jpost.com
Lets' provide the historical background. In late 1922, Moshe Novomeyevsky purchased rights to mine salt at Mount Sodom. In 1924, he founded the "Palestine Mining Syndicate". In 1927, High Commissioner Herbert Plumer awarded him a tender to mine the Dead Sea area as the Palestine Potash Company. Kibbutz Kalia, founded in 1968 near to the site of the plant that was overrun by invading foreign occupying forces in blatant violation of the UN in 1948, is simply continuing this activity of Jews returning to their land, some planting orchards, others mining its deposits.
The kettle calling to pot black. You guys are so pitiably funny.
Don't know any so no need for the term. What do you call someone who is dominated by uncontrollable emotions and psychological handicaps and hates Jews in an irrational manner and for all the wrong reasons?
Today was Shabbat. And do have anything to do besides spit out hate?
Cliff, give me your address and I'll be on your front lawn or fire escape next time I'm there. But you're welcome to come and and try spouting off. And as for "stupid shit", I usually don't foul the Internet but please, don't be such a turd.
Kapo is a term reserved for persons who cooperated with their oppressors and specifically, those who aided the Nazis in sending their fellow Jews to the gas chambers, etc. Like Jews who blog and aid the Arabs in their efforts to kill Jews.
Use a better term.
Do you mean that the IDF soldiers were guilty of contravening the terms of the well-known Terrorism Retirement Act of 1992 which reads in part: "Anyone over the age of 29 will be forbidden by the International Association of Terrorists, Thugs, and Murderous Freedom Fighters (IATTMFF) from engaging in terrorist activities"?
Dear dear Sumud,
Actually, no I haven't burned down any mosques, nor shot an Arab or eaten a little Muslim kid for breakfast. Amazing isn't it that sometimes we just don't fit into the pattern some antisemites prefer to view us. As for that remark you recall, I already replied at that post but since you must have missed it or forgotten, allow me: if I did say it, I was in error. I thought I had said, and what I intended to say was, that there were no Arabs in sight in the area what has become Shiloh. In other words, we didn't deprive anybody of their property. But if you come here, you can observe that there are a few directions in which you can look for miles and not see an Arab, an Arab field or an Arab house. It happens. And if the silly thing called a "Palestinian state" ever arises, you well know that it will be difficult for me, security-wise, to live here (even Arabs get killed and tortured and thrown into prison for either objecting to certain aspects of their National Authority or their fundamentalist interpretation of religion). But right now, we're over 15% of the population just like non-Jews are 20% of Israel's population so things are evening out. Either we stay or maybe there'll have to be a population redistribution - all Arabs in "Palestine" all Jews in Israel.
Good work.
And keep counting.
There are more of us every week (sorry, counting births every day is just too much). Yes, there are deaths - mostly natural causes although we still get shot at, stoned and occasionally a molotov cocktail. And some do move out back across the 'Green Line'.
There is always a delay due to registrations of births, moving (the best demographic bench mark is September's numbers of 1st grade or kindergarten).
I use the figure of "over a half-million Jews reside in the areas of Jerusalem's new neighborhoods and those parts of the Jewish national home not yet under full Israel sovereignty". I think there are about 320,000 in Judea and Samaria and 200,000 in Jerusalem-across-the-Green Line.
why do antisemites have so much trouble spelling (not to mention thinking)?
Shingo, use logic. If the Arabs can do to me what I did to the Canaanites, and that is okay, than can I do to the Arabs what they did to me? If so, what are you complaining about? Or is my logic off?
Sulking? Naw.
And I'm no Islamphober.
Some of best friends are Muslims.
Why Mondo allows antisemitic trash on this blog is beyond me, but go ahead and wallow in your hatred if that's what gets you through the night.
a. I meant "on the hill where I built my house". I didn't know you had so much difficulty with English. Sorry.
b. you wrote: "You must think we’re extremely dumb & don’t know Palestine is Filasteen in arabic. " - Well, then, you are extremely dumb. Sorry. You see "Palestine" comes from the Latin. The Romans decided in 135 CE to change the name of the country from Judea to Palestine. To wipe out the Jewish connection. And the Arabs who conquered and occupied the country in the 7th Century simply altered Palestine to Filastin as they can't pronounce the "P" easily.
What stolen house?
The one I built with my own money on a hill with no Arab in sight?
What indigenous people?
The ones who called themselves Southern Syrians until they realized it would be easier fooling people like you who seem to hate what Jews stand for no matter what they do if they referred to themselves as "Palestinian" even though "Palestine" is not an Arab word?
oh, you know nothing of history? someone else has to help you?
a) I'm not your "dad". And you did have a biological father, yes?
b) do you live on the Internet or occasionally do something else?
Ha, ha or were you not being funny?
For the interested, try The Claim of Dispossession.
It's up at Google.
link to books.google.co.il
"this volume traces the spread of Jewish settlements over the seventy year period before the establishment of the State of Israel, in order to see how it affected the existing Arab community's economy and its social and cultural institutions. "
a) "Qurvot (Battles)". The proper pronounciation is Kravot.
b) you seem to have a one-sided bibliography. don't you read all the books on a given subject?
Taxi, lucky it's only my picture that is close-up.
TGIA (shouldn't that be "an atheist", or is that your brother's tab?
Dear Avi,
a) do you read Hebrew? If so, I will provide many more sources than I can in English.
b) a Comments section is no place for loads of material.
c) "abandoned" because of Arab violence - not because of a water shortage or a locust plague.
d) all Arab attacks throughout the 1920s and 1930s were preplanned murder, rape and pillage actions.
e) sorry, can't comprehend your sentence structure on Hebron. rewrite.
f) go easy on the "joke" card. people will be laughing at you.
Shingo,
I think that an anonymous commenter is the fraudulent one. BTW, seen any Canaanites lately?
aparisian: a) I am not little. Doesn't pay to be nasty. b) in 1851, Arabs struck Avraham Zoref on the head and killed him, the first Jewish victim of Arab political anti-Zionist violence, for the crime of building the Hurva Synagogue on Jerusalem's Old City. link to en.wikipedia.org
Do you really think you know anything about the conflict?
Pottie: yes, you're right. Except that the infiltrators are the Arabs from Arabia who conquered and occupied a land not theirs in the 7th century and set up colonies in the Land of Israel.
Avi: let's do Neveh Yaakov:
Neve Yaakov also Neve Ya'aqov, (Hebrew: נווה יעקב) (lit. Jacob's Oasis), is a neighborhood located in northeastern Jerusalem, north of Pisgat Ze'ev and south of al-Ram. Established in 1924 during the period of the British Mandate, it was abandoned during the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. The area was recaptured by Israel in the Six Day War and a new neighborhood was built there, at which time international opposition to its legitimacy began.
But that was just Wiki.
Hebron, try Hebron Jews, Memory and Conflict in the Land of Israel, Jerold Auerbach, Rowman & Littlefield, 2009
Jenin, you'll need Hebrew:
עין גנים, ההיסטרויה היהדוית בג'נין, אורבך, מרחביה ושרעבי, תשס"ה
Don't worry, I can go on and on. With documents, deeds, pictures, etc.
There's a problem: they left because they went to war to quash a UN recommendation and lost. They left because they initiated violence. They left because in many instances they were told to do so or figured out that it would be better to get out of the way for a while. But they lost. Sometimes, when you lose, you really do lose.
Just in case this post and the comments will be reviewed in the future, I'd like to make sure that at least one objection appears:
As opposed to the claim that we are "stealing Palestinian land, period. They are living on land that is not theirs", we are not. They stole our land. They engaged in ethnic cleansing, expelling Jewish residents of Jenin, Shchem, Gaza, Hebron and other cities and locations throughout Judea and Samaria in the 20th century. They killed Jews to kick them out and even after Jews agreed to territorial compromise, the Arabs refused and continued to kill and eject Jews from Jerusalem's Old City, Atarot, Gush Etzion, Neveh Yaakov, Bet HaAravah in the 1947-49 war the Arabs launched after 30 years of pogroms and riots.
Actually Steve is a Haifa University professor (see: link to en.wikipedia.org
I am me, resident of Shiloh, Menachem Begin heritage Center Information Resources Director. Don't feel bad you're wrong. It probably happens often.
Those who claim themselves as "Palestinians" are Arabs who conquered and occupied the Land of Israel and kept it under Islamic foreign domination since 638 when they swept in to this area of the Middle East fulfilling the Muhammedanian charge to use the sword (eventually, they ended up at Vienna's gates and in southern France) and up to 1917. Yes, there may have been some intermarrying with the Jewish remnant that managed to remain in the country, as well as Christians who, of course were Jews after all who opted out of the faith. As for Canaanites, I really don't think there were any left by then. Yes, the Arabs now claim to be descendants of Canaanites, Jebusites and whatnot and even Ben-Gurion and Ben-Tzvi presumed as you do, Edwin, but the vast Jewish population now in Israel is the returning exiles from over 70 nations all over. And we don't want to do anything like the Romans did to the Jews. They had a chance at a state in 1947 (and probably would have wiped out Israel in five years or so had they accepted that option). They had a chance at overthrowing Jordanian rule between 1949-1967 but except for a few Communists among them really didn't do anything after Abdallah was assassinated by a Mufti follower. They had a chance at self-rule in 1979 but blew it. They had a chance at a state following the Oslo Accords in 1993 but blew it and began blowing themselves up, literally. They had a chance at 97% Second Camp David 2000-2001 and rejected it. They had a chance with Olmert & Livni in 2006-2009 at refused.
Maybe they really don't want a state but prefer to play with bombs and just kill Jews?
Try this book: A Guide-Book to Northern Palestine and Southern Syria.- Palestine Pocket Guide-Books. Vol. 3 by H. Pirie-Gordon
Silly. Samaritans live in Gerizim Mountain and Bat Yam in Israel. There sort of Jewish and we have no need to give it "back" because the Samaritans are already there enjoying life. But of course you knew that and also that the Samaritans split off from the Jews while we were in exile in Babylon, right?
Shingo, you are half-right. Israel had no permanent borders because the Arab states refused to sign a peace treaty. There were only armistic lines. But with the Egypt and Jordan peace treaties we do have internationally recognized border on the east and south and semi-recognized on the north when the UN told off the Hezbollah Sheb'a Farms claim. We're getting there. Patience. And we are a state and even a UN member. Please, don't cry.
What "idea"? That you know next-to-nothing about history? That you can't spell? That your sentence structure is problematic?
1. When/where? Egypt closed the Straits of Tiran, moved troops into Sinai.
2. Says who? Check out every single book of geography and come back.
3. The WZO accepted the 1922 partition already so why should those moderates have not accepted the 1947. Weizmann & Ben-Gurion said better a little than nothing.
4. Sure there was. What were the Babylonians and later Romans fighting - a Jewish sports club?
a. not exactly. and btw, Arabs only owned about 15% of the land in the area.
try this:-
the Muslim-Christian Association's president insisted that "Palestine or Southern Syria-an integral part of the one and indivisible Syria-must not in any case or for any pretext be detached." The Muslim-Christian Association held a Congress in early 1919 and declared that Palestine, a "part of Arab Syria," is permanently connected to Syria through "national, religious, linguistic, natural, economic, and geographical bonds," and resolved that "Southern Syria or Palestine should not be separated from the independent Arab Syrian government." Musa Kazim al-Husayni, Head of the Jerusalem Town Council (in effect, mayor) told a Zionist interlocutor in October 1919: "We demand no separation from Syria." The slogan heard everywhere in 1918-19 was "Unity, Unity, From the Taurus [Mountains in Turkey] to Rafah [in Gaza], Unity, Unity."
Palestinian interest in Pan-Syrian unity peaked during the early months of 1920. One speaker at the General Palestinian Congress suggested that Palestine stood in relation to Syria as Alsace-Lorraine to France. The Congress passed four resolutions. The first of them noted that "it never occurred to the peoples of Northern and Coastal Syria that Southern Syria (or Palestine) is anything but a part of Syria." The second called for an economic boycott of the Zionists in "all three parts of Syria" (meaning French Syria, Mt. Lebanon, and the Palestine mandate). The third and fourth resolutions called for Palestine "not to be divided from Syria" and for "the independence of Syria within its natural borders."
The crowning of Faysal as King of Syria in March 1920 elicited great enthusiasm among the Arabs of Palestine. Participants in a mass demonstration in Jerusalem carried pictures of Faysal and called for unity with Syria. Amin al-Husayni, just back from Damascus, incited the crowds with (false) news that the British government recognized Faysal as ruler of Palestine as well as Syria.
Why did Palestinians accept Southern Syria and submission to Damascus? In large part because this was their traditional identity; also because they thought they would gain from connections to Damascus. The Palestinians regarded Faysal as the only Arab leader capable of resisting the Jewish influx into Palestine; as a group of Palestinian expatriates observed, "If Syria and Palestine remain united, we will never be enslaved by the Jewish yoke."
DS: don't feel so bad. Even people with inflated egos like you make mistakes.
Which one? And in any case, neither Jordan, Lebanon and Iraq actually existed then. Even until 1921-22, "Palestine" was considered to be but Southern Syria - by the very Arabs resident in the area.
"Lighten"? Even I would have difficulty. But let's liven up things:
link to myrightword.blogspot.com
Thanks. Even a back-handed compliment is better than most of the back-assed dribble here.
"ZioNazi"? Please, wipe the foam off when you write that, or whatever else exudes from you.
No, I'm a revenant.
Neither do I give anything fecal about you. You happy now?
No, I don't need any army. Truth is my most important weapon.
And it's Eretz Yisrael.
Your argumentation against the map is silly.
a) Judea & Samaria are the terms even the UN used in its 1947 Partition resolution.
b) Judea and Samaria are indeed the proper historical geographic names, Bible or not.
c) Gaza is green probably because that's the Hamas color, no?
d) the blue of J&S is a different shade of blue and Gaza too so in any case so there is a differentiation.
You may call yourselves "progressives" but you sound like a parody of Bob Dylan's "Talking John Birch Blues":
Well, I was feelin' sad and feelin' blue,
I didn't know what in the world I was gonna do,
Them Zionists they wus comin' around,
They wus in the air,
They wus on the ground.
They wouldn't gimme no peace. . .
So I run down most hurriedly
And joined up with the Birthright Society,
I got me a secret membership card
And started off a-walkin' down the road.
Yee-hoo, I'm a real Birthrighter now!
Look out you Zionists!
...Well, I wus lookin' everywhere for them gol-darned Zionists.
I got up in the mornin' 'n' looked under my bed,
Looked in the sink, behind the door,
Looked in the glove compartment of my car.
Couldn't find 'em . . .
I'd just like to know how you know this: "Most Israelis do not like this group [Ateret Cohanim]". I know on opinions I'd have a tough time here so I just thought to ask about your facts.