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@Hostage Here’s some legal material worthy of analysis by your trenchant legal mind.
My trenchant legal mind tells me that:
a) During the first world war the Arabs and Indians ignored similar calls from the Ottoman Caliphate, which undoubtedly was the most important arbiter and authority in the Muslim world.
b) The "Sunni Muslim world" was not represented by the 30,000 or so Arabs who entered Palestine to join in the fighting. If the millions of Muslims, including their nuclear powers ever do decide to mobilize and wage a holy war against Israel, the woefully outnumbered Zionists probably won't be able to keep up with the pace.
b) Egypt and Palestine were not even part of the same legal jurisdiction. In the Council of the Arab League, it was agreed that the former Mufti, a religious leader who held similar views, was not fit to represent the Palestinian people. For their own part, the majority of Palestinians joined forces with Arab leaders who were willing to make peace with the Zionists, without abandoning their rights or claims. They ended-up in a political union that governed the overwhelming majority of the territory of the former Palestine mandate on both sides of the river.
Again, you cannot define what is Palestine by attempting to define what Israel is not.
LOL! I've already explained that the ICJ removed that difficulty. Israel struck out using the "terra nullus" argument, but here you are still standing at the plate and swinging your bat at thin air.
Judge Higgins noted in her concurring opinion that Palestine had sufficient international legal personality to participate in the Wall case. That's a right reserved exclusively for States. Determining the status of the "Occupied Palestinian Territories" was the object of the request for an advisory opinion. Judge Higgins said that the applicable laws were clear about that:
So let's get this straight:
a) We are talking about Israel's reports to the official UN treaty monitoring bodies on its own compliance with the ICCPR and ICESCR in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Among other things, the ICJ advisory opinion noted that those treaties contain the conventional laws, together with the UN Charter, which establish the inalienable right of the Palestinian people to determine their own political and legal status and exercise "permanent sovereignty" over the resources of the Palestinian territory.
b) For their own part the Palestinians declared their statehood in 1988. The State of Palestine has subsequently been recognized, as such, by both the international community of states and the UN General Assembly. All of those parties have insisted that Israel is prohibited from annexing or settling in territory acquired during the 1967 war.
c) The government of Israel has not only asserted that the West Bank and Gaza are NOT its responsibility or part of its sovereign territory or jurisdiction, it claims:
See CCPR/C/ISR/2001/2, para 8 or E/1990/6/Add.32, para 6-7
The use of the word "jurisdiction" in that Israeli report has legal consequences. The Rome Statute is based on the laws and customs of war and the conventional laws contained in the Hague Convention, the UN Charter, and the Geneva Conventions. They in-turn are based upon the exercise of "jurisdiction", not "sovereignty".
If the PA has responsibility for implementing the ICCPR and ICESCR in the West Bank and Gaza, then it is responsible for implementing the inhabitant's decision regarding the statehood and political independence of their territory.
d) The only tangible manifestation of sovereignty is the exercise of jurisdiction - and Israel claims that belongs to the Palestinians when it comes to implementing and protecting the political, civil, and human rights of Palestinians. The Oslo Accords had explicitly stated that the West Bank and Gaza Strip were under the "jurisdiction" of the Palestinian Council. The agreement stipulated that its authority encompassed all matters that fell "within its territorial, functional and personal jurisdiction". The Israeli military commander only exercised power "in accordance with international law". Note: He was always prohibited on that basis from expropriating private property, establishing Jewish settlements, or concluding "special agreements" with local officials to violate any rights of the inhabitants that were protected by Article 49 & etc. of the 4th Geneva Convention.
e) The ICJ advised that under the terms of the agreements Israel could not subsequently interfere in matters where responsibility had been transferred or placed under the competence of the Palestinian National Authority.
f) Despite all of that, you insist that the territory is a terra nullus where Israel is still free to commit war crimes and that all of the laws of nations simply do not apply. That's pretty unconvincing, since that idea violates the content and intent of the UN Charter, the Hague Convention, the Geneva Conventions, and the Rome Statute.
Who reads the Jewish Press? Right wing Jews and those who like to mock right wing Jews.
Annie- This is a Peace Now rally. Peace Now is dissed in MW all the time.
What a bunch of whiners.
The borders of Israel is not the question, rather the borders of Palestine. Which are not defined by your “by default” method.
Perhaps, but the extent of a state's jurisdiction can and does peacefully change or evolve over time. For the purposes of the war crimes laws in the Rome Statute, the Court only needs permission from any of the States that exercise or share "territorial jurisdiction" under one of the UN Armistice Agreements.
Come and hear: when a State party to the Rome Statute signs a formal agreement to protect the Jerusalem Holy Places, that has legal consequences with respect to the extent of its own jurisdiction. Under the terms of Article 12, the Rome Statute applies to all of the territory which is subject to the jurisdiction of an ICC member State. See Jordan, Palestinians sign agreement to protect J'lem holy sites link to ynetnews.com
FYI, Jordan was one of the first countries to accept the protections extended by the Rome Statute. The first President of the Court's Legislative body, the Assembly of States Parties, was Ambassador Prince Zeid Ra'ad Zeid Al Hussein of Jordan.
The Court has its own subject matter jurisdiction over crimes that were established by the Statute itself, regardless of whether or not they are considered to be crimes under local law.
Palestine's current borders were originally fixed by Jordan in the 1949 Armistice Agreements and the rules on belligerent occupation contained in the Hague and Geneva Conventions. FYI, the ICJ cited the terms of the 4th Geneva Convention on non-renunciation of rights and advised that the belligerent occupation originally began as an armed conflict between two High Contracting Parties, Israel and Jordan, and that nothing had altered that status since 1967.
Israel's peace treaty with the Kingdom of Jordan contained a safeguarding clause, which stipulated that it did not alter the legal status of any territory that came under the control of the Israeli military in 1967.
The boundaries contained in those agreements remain unchallengeable today unless - and until - a final settlement is concluded by mutual consent of the parties concerned which "might" alter the existing international demarcation lines. In short, for all of its bold talk about the "disputed status" of the territory, Israel itself granted Jordan jurisdiction over the territory in writing from the very outset and hasn't complied with the terms for peacefully altering the frontiers. There is a maxim in the Torah which says: Cursed be he who moves back his neighbor's landmark. And all the people shall say, 'Amen!' -- Deuteronomy 27:17.
FYI, those agreements were adopted as provisional measures under the auspices of UN Security Council resolutions 62 and 73. Both of them were Chapter VII resolutions that are still in force, pending an end to the conflict. They explicitly invoked the organization's powers under Articles 39 and 40 of the UN Charter. The agreements established "permanent international armistice lines of demarcation" which every UN member state is bound to respect. The agreements and resolutions stipulated that the armed forces and civilian populations of the respective parties may not legally pass beyond those frontiers.
Talknic has correctly pointed out that the Security Council explicitly recognized that the Israeli attack on the Hebron area in 1966 was a premeditated act of aggression on a region that was subject to Jordanian territorial jurisdiction.
bk, open the 'impassioned speech' link. you're wrong.
"Jews living and working in Judea and Samaria."
It is a bit mind boggling to me. According to my textbooks, Samaria is the same as Shomron which is the same as Israel, the northern state of the Hebrews, while the southern was Judea and that was it. Thus Judea and Samaria are the lands that Zionists claim to be connected to. If so, one can propose a logical exchange: the territory to the west of Green Line to Palestinians and Judea and Samaria to Jews (small quibble why Jews have a connection to Samaria and not to Judea alone). This version of the 2 state solution would take care of all the settlements in a way most satisfactory for the settlers.
If I stole a country then I'd be zealously trying to guard it too. Never know when the rightful inhabitants might want it back.
Nope. He says the Zionism as colonial and criminal, not the Jewishness. You're the one conflating Zionism and Judaism and thus kinda proving Massad's point.
Great to see Palestinians making the point that the right to return home is central and will not be given up.
RE: "And now Jews are left with the choice of not going to a fundraiser for a wonderful, non-political medical center in Israel, or going and watching as an American Jew who encourages the economic boycott of a Jewish town is given an award. It’s a tough choice that Jews should not make other Jews make." ~ über-Zionist Lori Lowenthal Marcus
MY QUESTION: So, who are the Jews that are making other Jews make a tough choice about going to the fundraiser? I would say they are the settlers and their Likudnik supporters (like über-Zionist Lori Lowenthal Marcus), NOT Mandy Patinkin!
Very interesting gingershot.
Though I think Ben Gurion was wrong about 1948. The critical thing is not whether Palestinian refugees were expelled or advised by their leaders to flee, but the fact that Israel refuses to let them return...
>> Patinkin is (at the least) a liberal Zionist ...
I wasn't aware that he was pro-"Jewish State". It's a pity that he is.
Mandy Patinkin once recorded an album of songs in Yiddish. That is a niche market if there ever was one. Hardly anybody speaks Yiddish any more. I'm guessing that he was proud of his cultural heritage. He definitely didn't do it for the money.
Patinkin may well be concerned for the future of Israel, especially if Israel continues the right-wing extremist policies supported by the West Bank settlers.
The attack on Patinkin is just the Lobby attempting to whip American Jews into supporting everything Israel does, including things that nobody should support.
The head of Hamas is interviewed today at foreignpolicy.com.
Why he broke with Syrian gov't.
Why Hamas wants Israel out of West Bank.
Unfortunately, it's more and more true that Israel, Canada, the UK, and the U.S. do have similar legal systems.
Apparently it's a thing for Israel to honor the last soldier to die in service to the state on Memorial Day, but this year the last soldier to die was not Jewish. As a result the IDF was going to honor the penultimate soldier to die because his Jewish bone fides were in order.
But there was an outcry and now they say they will honor all soldiers, regardless of whether their Jewish bone fides are in order.
So, why did they back track? Because they controversy MADE THEM LOOKED BAD.
Keep shining that light into their dark corners.
I love it when they do that. It makes them look bad without any effort from me.
Good article.
The hasbarists in the comments section predictably dismiss or ignore the article's findings.
Everyone and everything gets morphed in this conversation.
Patinkin is (at the least) a liberal Zionist, the kind who would be pilloried here in any other context.
Slogans of doubtful utility:
(Attributed to Charlie "Engine Charlie" Wilson): "What's good for General Motors is good for America."
What's good for Goldman Sachs is good for America.
What's good for the Settlement Project is good for All Jews Everywhere.
Whoever condemns those Catholic priests (and bishops) who have grievously sinned is an anti-Catholic.
Whoever opposes the criminality (or stupidity) of the Israeli government is an antisemite.
Jews should not honor a Jew who dishonors Jews who do dishonorable things.
Jewish Press: "It’s a tough choice that Jews should not make other Jews make." (Hmmm: Whether or not to oppose the Settlement and Occupation Projects?)
There's no one on Earth and in all of history that Zionists won't cannibalize for Greater Israel.
I know folks who have been calling NPR National Jewish Radio for decades. KNow folks who quit giving money and support to their local NPR outlets because of the bias. So endless feel good about Israel stories.
And this
link to fair.org
A few reports
link to fair.org
And the feel good about Israel stories just keep coming on NPR.
Thanks for that link, gingershot. A long but fascinating piece. I found two tidbits especially interesting. One, that Israel has recently reclassified many documents from that era that had been previously released, and that most documents were never declassified.
And the other is that the Kennedy Administration was placing pressure on Israel to allow return of hundreds of thousands of refugees.
As for Ben-Gurion, I suspect he was a pathological liar. Anyone who would go on national television and baldly lie that absolutely no Israeli military personnel were involved in the Qibya massacre would be capable of lying about everything and anything.
These are people who have even tried "demonize" legendary anti-apartheid activists like Archbishop Emeritus Desmond Tutu and who have also now moved on to uttering some of the most vile statements imaginable against a renowned intellectual and scholar like Stephen Hawking.
"Soldier in the delegitimization war against Israel" ?? Not so fast with this inescapable Zionist-Expansionist rant.
Any Zionist who is content with an Israel territorially consisting of pre-1967 Israel (a non-expansionist Zionist) will see that battling the settlement and occupation projects is not anti-Zionist and THUS does not delegitimize Israel (however much it necessarily delegitimizes these two projects).
But the Expansionists desire to blackmail all Jews into becoming their enablers by use of the familiar "all Jews must stick up for all other Jews" rigamerole, suggesting that these two projects are noble expressions of Judaism, etc., blah-blah.
I'd hope that just a few Jews could begin to say:
After the insurgent cannibalism video surfaced this week, this may not be the best time for another Kelly McEvers feel-good story about Syrian nonviolent activists who have been forced to take up carbombing. Abramson fills in with a feel-good story about the Only Democracy in the Middle East.
''the economic boycott of a Jewish town is given an award. '
gawd....it and they (illegal settlements) are not Jewish towns.
You know what you should start doing?...instead of just writing up their unfair denunciations of people like Patinkin.....you should really ridicule the stupidity of the Lori Lowenthal 's.....as in hey honey how STUPID are you to not know that nowhere except in zionist comic books and propaganda are illegal settlements Jewish towns.
Part of normal human rights in connection with a home or a homeland is that you can leave it when you see fit without explaining yourself to anyone. That's part of the difference between a home and a prison, freedom and serfdom. Leaving home because it has become part of a war zone is acting with reasonably good reason, wouldn't you say? A lot of people did that during WW2 and it wasn't regarded as giving the Nazis a greater right to their conquests. Ben Gurion's propaganda was no doubt brilliant but then he told people in the West what they wanted to hear.
There's a fascinating article up at Haaretz regarding Ben Gurion's attempts to disguise the Nakba because he knew it was catastrophic to the Jewish narrative.
'Catastrophic Thinking - did Ben Gurion try to Rewrite History?'
"By the end of the 1950s, Ben-Gurion had reached the conclusion that the events of 1948 would be at the forefront of Israel’s diplomatic struggle, in particular the struggle against the Palestinian national movement. If the Palestinians had been expelled from their land, as they had maintained already in 1948, the international community would view their claim to return to their homeland as justified. However, Ben-Gurion believed, if it turned out that they had left “by choice,” having been persuaded by their leaders that it was best to depart temporarily and return after the Arab victory, the world community would be less supportive of their claim"
link to haaretz.com
'By the time I left I didn't want a memory of this place' - wow...
Hey Allison, don't you think it is time to declare the so called passive Palestinian resistance to be officially over and to have been an interesting experiment in swaying public opinion away from Israel. We all knew that Billi'n and the Friday demonstrations as being orchestrated to evoke images of Ghandi. Nothing could be further from the truth.
NPR is closer to the Weekly Standard on matters Israel than it is with The Nation.
There's so many people like Abramson at NPR who have been there forever and keep spewing their Zionist bile.
I bet he thinks he's doing 'Tikkun Olam' too, holding the line in the left etc.
Disgusting.
But the crime here is not what happens in this reporter's mind and his cultural milieu; it's that it is getting broadcast all over America.
I read that piece (thanks Citizen for bringing to our attention). I see things quite differently however and am inclined to agree with the author Davidson that, on the micro level, enormous progress has been made.
Of course, for those most active in the I/P cause and those making the most personal sacrifices, periodic "loss of heart" is an expected collateral. On an emotional level, the struggle against grave injustice - one perpetrated by powers far greater than oneself - is bound to result in a little depression, now and then, especially when progress seems too small to sustain. However, no one should expect that triumph over injustice should be either quick or easy. Every day there are some who predict the dam will break any minute. But it's a very strong dam with seemingly endless resources for continuing fortification. For a long time now, I have come to believe that Israel's path will not be like South Africa. The Jews of israel are not the Boors, and they are nothing like the Irish catholics. Israel's path to existence was unique and there is every reason to believe that the demise of the zionist enterprise - in its current, increasingly monstrous form - will be unique as well.
Davidson said in his article on Hart's decision that the I/P struggle is about process more than an outcome - which we do not know and can't even see its outlines. I agree with that. What's important is that the process has already redeemed many individuals, and has empowered and enriched the lives of many - in more than one dimension. I think Phil and Adam can probably attest to that. As can many others. For myself, I continue to be astounded by the humanity, strength and moral commitment shown by the many activists and writers and even mere commenters for the cause, a commitment that almost resembles religious fervor at times (we can all use a little fervor now and then, right, Mooser?).
Hart may have made an unfortunate gamble whereupon his personal fortunes were adversely affected. But then relying on wealthy individuals to come through - whoever they are - is something that has an expiration date stamped on it. i think many a foundation can attest to that. He blames wealthy palestinians for not putting their money where their mouths is, but then, wealth goes by its own rules, doesn't it? not everyone can be a Buddha or a St. Francis, can they? and wealthy palestinians are probably wealthy before they are palestinian, really no different than wealthy Jews.
BTW, I find it an interesting parallel between the voices announcing the coming collapse of Capitalism and those presaging the collapse of the zionist enterprise (as opposed to the "Jewish" state - that's something different altogether). People sometimes seem to think that just because there are obvious systemic problems, that the system itself will collapse any day. If i learnt anything it's that systems, no matter how weak the foundations and numerous the fault lines, once they achieve a certain size, the system fights tooth and nail to stay erect.
Oh well, I'm not sure whether any of this will make you happier, Citizen. Perhaps a bit more sanguine though?
Dickerson/MLK: "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly"
"Any man's death diminishes me because I am involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee. . . ."
from Meditation 17 by John Donne
Everywhere, the people (or many of them) understand repression, colonialization, etc., and everywhere the governments and business interests (almost all of them) are "in bed" with the colonizers, the repressers. Doesn't it really feel, at long last, as if Marx et al were right to see capitalism and the partnership of capitalists with governments (especially bad wherever, as in USA, governments are bought and sold to the capitalists) as intrinsic evils requiring overthrow.
I never believed in overthrow, and do not do so today, and I've never read Marx for that matter, but Spain and Catalonia should be above doing business (and especially "security" business) with Israel. where is BDS when we need it?
Hah!
"It is also a melting pot that allows immigrants and minority groups to join in the same rite of passage.
That's what struck Leora Prince when the New Jersey native visited Israel after high school. She saw lots of young people joined in a common purpose.
"That were completely, selflessly guarding over the country," Prince recalls. "And I wanted to be a part of that."
>>>
If we get the same kind of nationalist dedication to the country going in the US. zionist and zionism will be expelled as a foreign element.
The 'Israel models" the zionist want to push on the US could 'flip on them.
With all the divison in the US we are ripe for a 'common cause' movement...it would be a 'simplifier, a sort of respite for public from the tiring political mishmash and complications .
@mondonut "Again, you cannot define what is Palestine by attempting to define what Israel is not. "
In conjunction with what the other states in the region are not, one certainly can define Palestine.
Israel defined what it is not. Israel has no right to non-Israeli territory.
At the same time who else would it have been?
I commented below! Don't know if you get a notification if it's not a direct response to your comment
Wow I wasn’t expecting this many responses! Thank you to everyone who commented and read the article.
My submissions to Mondoweiss grew out of a personal blog. The aim of my blog is to express my opinion on the subjects and topics that interest me, and that’s what I want the focus of my readers to be. Mondoweiss knows who I am and agreed to respect my privacy.
@Taxi of course Israel assassinated Kanafani in Beirut! Who else would it have been anyway! Any omission of that was not intended to take away from his story.
All I was trying to say in my post was that every year the Nakba is a moment in history anyone with even a remote connection or care for the Palestinian cause holds dear to their heart. I believe we can actually gain some inspiration from Kanafani’s works and use it to build on our hope for a future independent Palestinian state through a lasting peace. In no way do I dismiss injustices and atrocities committed by Israel.
I hope you keep reading my posts! Follow me on Twitter @womanunveiled.
Germany should be giving its nuclear-capable subs to the Palestinians, not to Israel?
And the US should support Germany in this switch?
Yep, Big Bird is the least objectionable part of NPR. Nice to know the tax-funded American public radio station is a propaganda arm of Israel.
Thirty years ago Palestinians not only were speaking out but were in the forefront of their own liberation struggle. I know this because upon returning from Lebanon after the '82 U.S.-backed Israeli invasion, it was Palestinians who invited me to speak at their rallies. Of course that was before 9/11, and Islamophobia and anti-Arabism were yet to take hold. Then, in the mid-eighties came the infamous FBI seizure of the LA Eight, which definitely had a cooling effect on Palestinian activism. What remained of said activism was further diminished by the post-9/11 attack on civil liberties. So to attribute all or even most of the decline in Palestinian visibility in the struggle here in America to non-Palestinians seizing the microphone, seems to me to be historically incomplete. Sometimes when the going gets tough for oppressed people and they're unable or unwilling to step forward, it may help their cause for surrogates to enter the fray. Certainly that's the case now for the Guantanamo prisoners and, come to think of it, for the two million others incarcerated here in the USA.
how apropo, standing in defense of justice and dignity sounds like kneeling to you.
Yeah, I did, Annie Robbins-I don't get the point to your comment. Hart has been fighting the good fight far longer than Phil, and obviously never had the economic support Phil has had. Read the article I linked to again--I read any articles I link to before I link to them. I will leave it to other who come here to see the mirror you impliedly claim does not exist.
P.S. AND SEE: "Im Tirzu Steals Confidential Documents from Lawyer’s Office", by Richard Silverstein, Tikun Olam, 1/19/13
ENTIRE ARTICLE - link to richardsilverstein.com
RE: "Lately Allison did a post on the rightwing Israeli youth group Im Tirtzu engaging in Nakba denial at Tel Aviv University. This group has a disruptive pro-settler track record. And it's got American support-- as a charity, with your tax-free subsidy."
ALSO SEE: "Houston Jewish Federation, Jewish Agency Fund Im Tirzu’s Assault on Israeli Universities" ~ by Richard Silverstein, Tikun Olam, 3/17/10
ENTIRE ARTICLE - link to richardsilverstein.com
• I believe that Israel is a fact and that it will stay as a country in the Middle East and that the Palestinian people should recognize this fact and cope with it as a reality. What I also believe is that the Arab population that when Palestinians were ruthlessly attacked, massacred and driven from their homes into refugee camps by Zionist terror groups should be allowed to go back to their lands and homes. The fact that the creation of the state of Israel entailed a grave injustice against the Palestinian people, this injustice was even understood by The Zionists Leader of Israel. As Ben –Gurion once a time told Nahum Goldmann, the president of the World Congress Jewish, in 1956” If I was an Arab Leader I would never make terms with Israel, its natural: we have taken their land, we have taken their country, Sur God promised it to us, but what does that matter to them? Our God is not theirs. We come from Israel, it’s true, but two thousand years ago, and what is that to them? There has been anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing (the Palestinian): We have come here and stolen their land, their country. Why should they accept that? “ The Israel Lobby and US foreign policy 2006”
• The Zionist ideology in Palestine is based on one strategic goal and many myths. That goal has been to occupy as much as possible of Palestinian land and to expel all the Arabs from it, or as many as it is possible to expel. Another Myth was to invent an imaginary place, where Palestine would be "a land without a people for a people without a land” . Kind regards. Mohamed Zelfani
citizen, did you read hart's sad rant? in what way does that mirror phil's life?
Please, Erdogan just trying get popular in the arab world again, he condemns Israel but then establishing stronger ties in secret.
He has no credibility left.
"That's what struck Leora Prince when the New Jersey native visited Israel after high school. She saw lots of young people joined in a common purpose."
Gang rape involves "people joined in a common purpose", FFS. Some common purposes are criminal.
"The Israel Defense Forces plays a number of roles that go far beyond just defending the country. It is also a melting pot that allows immigrants and minority groups to join in the same rite of passage"
Sadly, entry to the pot is not open to everyone. And it is actually a bigotry soup.
RE: "We condemn the fact that the repression we are experiencing in Catalonia is strongly interconnected with the global repression suffered by the social movements and specifically, with the Israeli military and security infrastructure." ~ from the petition (excerpted above)
REV. MARTIN LUTHER KING, JR: “Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly . . ." ~ Letter from Birmingham Jail, 1963
According to Wiki, Wendy Greuel is an active supporter of a peculiar American version of Apartheid, which is about making it difficult to move between communities with different income level (or property status). Check the passage starting with "Parking was an issue for the renters and the would use the north side neighborhood as overflow parking and cross a pedestrian bridge to their homes." The bridge was closed for good on her orders.
Wiki page is pretty good. Greuel is not without accomplishment, but she is also very vulnerable, e.g. "calendar controversy".
If I recall, Hagee's organization found Im Tirtzu to be too radical and discontinued their support. This is one of the most frankly fascist organizations on the Israeli scene. In particular, Im Tirtzu targets "enemy within", or "Jewish traitors". But can such radicalism be singled out as not conforming to "social and welfare programs"?
IRS is already in hot water for scrutinizing charities that support so-called Tea Party which probably means our domestic hate groups. There are some laws singling out Communists, but I am not aware if IRS can discriminate against fascists.
I agree with Heike about how the Jewish identity thing sucks too much air out of I/P objectives.
But I dont know how you would unscrew it.
Should Jews quit making it jewish,jewish,jewish...yes.
But then, should Jews feel or should they have some special obligation on I/P because of the Jewish State...yes, since it is in their name.
So I dont see how the two are going to be separated...it goes together like a horse and buggy.
At this point I dont think it matters either.
Non Jews in this waste as much energy complaining about Jews like the lib zionist trying to keep non Jewish voices quiet and out of US Isr policy as anti zionist Jews waste on protecting the Jewish value-identity thing.
If non Jews spent half the time they spend on discussing things Jewish and examining it's innards, on raising hell with their politicans on US-Isr-I/P instead it would be a better use of our time.
eljay says: But since it is a supremacist “Jewish State” – envisioned, realized, maintained and supported by hateful and immoral Zio-supremacists like you...
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Always with the ad hominem attacks (strangely allowed), and the tedious, repetitive cut and paste comments. But to answer what little content is in your comment, the number of Palestinian Arabs within the West Bank is no threat to Israel. If the residents of the West Bank were interested in annexation and citizenship they could probably have it just by asking.
But of course, that would not include the refugees or the residents of Gaza.
Here's a Jewish Daily Forward article on her. She is an American Jew in all but religion. “My mom said I would marry a Jewish man.” (Funny, my mom said I'd be lucky to just to get a date with a Jewish girl.)
link to forward.com
Interesting stats in this article:
Jews comprise 6% of the LA population and account for 16-18% of the votes.
Now, the question is -- and surely she's already done the math -- how many of those 18% support Israeli apartheid? Most of them or she wouldn't be running the ad. That is very disappointing. Almost as disappointing as the Coen brothers going to Tel Aviv to receive the Dan David award, after which I gave up on them, took their picture off the wall, and put up Roger Waters'.
I hope for the day when playing the Israel-first card will be a detriment to any American politician (or director), Jew, goyim, or hybrid. That's probably 10 years off. By then thousands of Palestinians will have lost their homes, been administratively detained, or killed. (Phone's ringing, dude. Thank you, Donnie.)
@Hostage
Here's some legal material worthy of analysis by your trenchant legal mind.
On the 2nd of December 1947, three days after the UN vote, the ulama – the chief scholars of theology – of the University of Al-Azhar, in Cairo, perhaps the most important arbiters and authorities in the Sunni Muslim world, declared a “worldwide jihad in defense of Arab Palestine ”.
In the course of the war, the Ulama of Al-Azhar periodically renewed the fatwa and call to jihad. “The liberation of Palestine [is] a religious duty for all Muslims without exception, great and small. The Islamic and Arab governments should without delay take effectiove and radical measures, military or otherwise,” pronounced the Ulama at the end of April 1948.5
On the day of the Egyptian Army invasion of Palestine, 15 May, Muhammed Mamun Shinawi, the rector of AlAzhar, declared: “ The hour of “ jihad ” has struck … A hundred of you will defeat a thousand of the infidels … This is the hour in which … . Allah promised paradise … “
Ibn Taimiya, a major 13th and 14th century theologian, “ the obligation to participate in jihad appears innumerable time in the Koran and the Sunna. Therefore, that is the most important willed [religious] activity a man can undertake. All the sages agree that it is more important than the haj … “
Woody, you're right , I should have mentioned the Puerto Rican tourists murdered in the attack . Murdered, not "deceased".
Nobody is trying to deny who lived there, but that has nothing to do with the recognized, defined borders of a sovereign state.
Sure it does. There are about 189 countries that have told Israel in no uncertain terms to stop messing around with the demographic balance of the Occupied Palestinian territories. Nobody, but nobody, thinks that they are Israeli territory or calls them by that name.
You get a failing mark and get held back until you learn that the
territorial integrity norm of international law protects the jus cogens right of national self-determination from prohibited coercive revision.
For example, Article 1 of the Montevideo Convention doesn't say one word about sovereignty. It's just a list of recommended qualities:
The boundaries of States are always drawn around "the people who live there" and function to protect and conserve their existence. Article 11 of Montevideo stipulates that:
link to jus.uio.no
None of that is written in secret code or disappearing ink.
Terrorists always claim to be "retaliating " or avenging something or other. Whether it's Timothy McVeigh or Mohammad Atta or Barukh Goldstein or Yahya Ayyash or the Tsarnaev brothers...In my view once they start killing innocent civilians they won't get any sympathy or "understanding " from me. I don't care what their "message" was supposed to be.
RE: "In the long history of donkey fellation, this piece is right up there. And it shows that the IDF isn't just occupying Palestine, it's occupying American Jewish consciousness." ~ Weiss
MY COMMENT: Not to mention that the IDF has colonized the American Jewish subconsciousness!
SEE: Kings of the Road (Im Lauf der Zeit / In the Course of Time), by Wim Wenders (1976)
SOURCE – link to wim-wenders.com
Kings of the Road (EXCERPT) [VIDEO, 06:30] – link to youtube.com
Keep beating your head against the Zionist Wall, Phil. It's a hard row to hoe. See The Sad Lesson of Alan Hart--is Phiip Weiss next? link to consortiumnews.com
Hostage says: The government of Israel has made it a matter of public record that neither the West Bank nor Gaza can be considered part of its sovereign territory or jurisdiction. See E/1990/6/Add.32, para 6-7
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Again, you cannot define what is Palestine by attempting to define what Israel is not. Of course, if Palestine wishes to define itself by the “territorial jurisdiction” your reference then I will assume Israel would be happy to recognize their borders as areas A&B.
As for Oslo, they remain in effect for as long as both parties (Israel and the PLO) choose to consider them in effect. As of right now neither party considers them lapsed or dissolved, so they are not. And within those agreements (still in effect) they agreed that Israel had criminal jurisdiction within Area C, they very same jurisdiction they are now pretending to assign to the ICC.
It is no mystery why they are not pursuing settlement policy at the ICC, they have nothing to pursue.
"..we stand up in defence of justice and dignity, salute the Palestinian people in resistance .."
Sounds more like their getting down on their knees.
'I really want to understand all of this more. There has been a lot of discussion and argument in some groups I’m in around these issues and I really feel like I’m missing something. So someone please reply.''......maggielorraine
There is no problem in people speaking on their religious based values or identity......except if it's 'overemphasized ' ....or presented as unique or special --then it tends to separate them from other people's values and give the impression they think theirs are better or they have values other people don't.
Another point.....you say...."I personally feel a “special connection” to combating pinkwashing as a gay woman, knowing that that connection is completely artificial and a result of the pinkwashing narrative itself. But since the San Francisco LGBT community is the target of many pinkwashing activities by the Israeli government and Zionist groups, being an active voice of dissent *as a member of that community* is very important.''
I'm not gay but I am for gays rights to the same civil marriage benefits as straights. Since I 'm not gay and have nothing personally to gain from supporting this and just consider it a matter of basic human rights equality, my voice is actually more credible than yours because you stand to personally benefit from your position and I don't.
This is one difference between speaking as 'certain identity, religious or whatever, and taking a position on what should be universal values, not attached to any particular identity.
"A steadfast supporter of Israel."
And of what relevance is that?
I note one of her policy goals is "Protecting our parents and Grandparents in their homes"
Sadly, that is not an Israeli priority. Especially regarding non Jews.
Wendy also supports keeping local kids safe from violence. But not Palestinian kids, obviously.
Thank you Henry glad you enjoyed it. You're right he was assassinated by Israel, should've specified.
The Catalans know all about insane societies run by the military - Franco died in 1975 . Great video.
Excellent letter.
Something the POTUS has to do some serious thinking about.
1) Will he react in the way the letter expects from him ???
2) Or prefer to kow-tow before the mighty Israel Firsters - as he done so far?
Any bets?
As always a clever guy, even if on the other side of the divide, is more interesting than a sloganeering hate-obsessed fool. This is of course a conspiracy theory par excellence - that is, it adds masterminding and collusion to what may be an evolutionary process driven by many forces. “The truth” could be of course far more banal and random in nature, but for a person who is both an academic, an observer-like capacity, and a participant, with deep emotional attachment to the issue, this cannot be satisfactory.
"Wendy Greuel is a Steadfast Supporterof Israel..."
Wendy Greuel's "I love Israel" headliner boast is all about money, not votes. How many voters - Latino, labor, liberal or otherwise - will vote for her instead of Garcetti based on her allegiance to Israel? None? How many Jews will vote for her instead of Garcetti because she is a "steadfast" supporter of Israel? Certainly not all of them. Greuel's appeal is for money not votes. She understands that she could take a big haul from wealthy Zionists based on her absurd sales pitch: "make me your mayor because I promise to use the power of my office to secure the health and welfare of Jewish foreigners who live on the other side of world!"
Wendy Gruel (shockingly) appeared at a rally to celebrate the events of the Mavi Marmara raid held by the Jewish Federation of Los Angeles.
Eric Garcetti did not.
As a Los Angelino, I know Eric Garcetti is a much better choice for Mayor of LA.
I also know who cares about what is going on in Israel and Palestine and supports a just solution, and who would go to a rally to celebrate a horrific brutal event.
Wendy Gruel, bad for LA. and bad for justice in Palestine and Israel.
Does Phil know who this anonymous author is? Not asking who, but whether the editors know.
She reeks of 'Draw Muhammed Day'/FEMEN 'liberal' interventionism.
P.S. Canada is a party to the 1st Additional Protocol (1977) to the Geneva Conventions.
That means it is bound by the terms of Article 85 to treat the direct or indirect transfer of any portion of Israel's population into the territory that it occupies as a "grave breach" and a "war crime".
I dunno, marc B--Weiss is always looking for "turning points" and latching on to any sign of them, I think, because he knows the Zionist Goliath sitting atop blind except for banally greedy, Uncle Sam's shoulders. He keeps hope alive, and so do the others on his staff and as contributing writers. They don't need anyone telling them how small they are in influence, say to, e.g., AIPAC. At least with Bourdain, a tiny step towards awareness, towards more justice, is conceivable.
If that WaPo bigotry map is ever fleshed out to include Israel, it could well make support of Israel a liability within the politics of diverse communities.
talknic says: True, the court cannot define territory. However, Israel defined its sovereign extent...
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The borders of Israel is not the question, rather the borders of Palestine. Which are not defined by your "by default" method.
Citizen says: No legal words can deny that the natives...
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Nobody is trying to deny who lived there, but that has nothing to do with the recognized, defined borders of a sovereign state.
Aye. Good points. Noted.
Does Israel have the right to extend its customs authority over occupied territory? And should Canada legitimize this?
I think you are looking in wrong place re: CIFTA 1.4 1.
Article 93 of the Rome Statute requires member States to assist in the identification, tracing and freezing or seizure of proceeds, property and assets and instrumentalities of crimes for the purpose of eventual forfeiture. link to untreaty.un.org
Canada has stated for the record that the settlements violate the 4th Geneva Convention. Under the Crimes Against Humanity and War Crimes Act, any proceeds from that crime are subject to forfeiture if they are located in Canada. Here is the governments web page on the applicable law:
link to international.gc.ca
Thanks, ritzl.
I think it’s a pretty big but, less sensitivity has to be shown for (a lower priority has to be given to) combating/discussing anti-semitism than for advocating Palestinian justice. It’s impossible to do both, imho. And by less sensitivity, I mean by both supportive Jews and Palestinian leaders.
I agree, and that's usually my policy - except where I think it can harm the main goal. There is a lot of instrumentalisation of the Palestinian cause, in all sorts of weird directions. Here too, I think it's generally a good rule of thumb to follow the lead of Palestinian activists -- first of all because it is their struggle and their movement and it is up to them to decide priorities; second of all (and this a little -- note, a little -- like the Jewish advantage in countering unjust accusations of anti-Semitism), Palestinians have an advantage and greater authority when it comes to pointing out real anti-Semitism within the movement or among its hangers-on.
By the way, I don't mean to turn this discussion into a discussion of anti-Semitism as well, but if we are talking about the role of Jews in the Palestinian solidarity movement, this is an aspect that also needs to be addressed, if only as a "meta-discussion" (talking about talking about anti-Semitism).
Yes. The prospects for a European approach, in Canada, to the issue of legal separation for Palestine are pretty dim. We're stuck with this government for a couple of years and the other parties are not motivate. So there's work to be done, and even so, it seems to skim the surface.
This very subtle but critical piece of legislation is an example of what, I suspect, are at least hundreds of brief clauses in various agreements Israel has managed to construct with naive and complacent governments. I have no legal training so, at this point, I should leave the question to those who have.
Interesting headline from Haaretz.
Senior Fatah officials call for 1SS.
link to haaretz.com
I see no article on this press conference in today's Washington Post. (There is a photo of Obama speaking under an umbrella together with a brief explanation that it was taken during an Obama-Erdogan press conference, but there's no article, as far as I can see.)
Isn't that something, considering that it was at that press conference that Obama commented on his administration's various current scandals? You would think that would make it supremely newsworthy.
R.S.C. 1985 c. C-38 7.1c loses this arm wrestle to CIFTA 1.4 1. “(b) with respect to Israel the territory where its customs laws are applied;”
The government of Canada maintains a Foreign Affairs and International Trade page which contains policy statements. They indicate that Canada views the Israeli settlements as a violation of the Geneva Conventions.
-- link to international.gc.ca
FYI, Article 8 of the Rome Statute cites the Geneva Conventions and the laws and customs of war. The portions of the Canadian criminal code on war crimes has, in-turn, been based upon the criteria contained in the Rome Statute and the Geneva Conventions. See also Proceeds of Crime Offences in Canada's Crimes Against Humanity and War Crimes Act: link to international.gc.ca
Israel is only an occupying power. It has concluded a special agreement with local officials in the OPt to collect customs fees on their behalf which are delivered to the Palestinian authorities. For its own part, the government of Israel routinely advises the UN treaty bodies that it's actions in the Occupied territories are not subject to the human rights covenants that apply to garment workers in places like Bangladesh. Israel claims that's because the OPt is NOT part of its sovereign territory or jurisdiction, e.g. See CCPR/C/ISR/2001/2, para 8 or E/1990/6/Add.32, para 6-7
P.S. The legal term of art for the practice of extending a country's municipal and customs laws to another territory is "annexation".
Sorry, WE should really focus on helping you, but it is more important TO US to focus on what motivates US to help you. And it simply doesn't help you if WE follow OUR values to help you. I mean how could WE help you, if helping US helps you? And how could WE ever empathise with you, if what are going through remind US of what WE went through?
So you see OUR dilemma? Before we don't help US, there's not way of helping you. Because it's not about US, but about helping you!
(BTW. You know, who WE mean by "US". WE don't want to say the "J-"word, because that fortifies Zionism because of an unexplained short-circuit.)
The "deep state" in Turkey has always wanted close relations with Israel. But I'm surprised that the deep state retains so much power under Erdogan.
So much for going from memory…
yes. all hail the internet, the great memory prosthesis. my impression is that there is a ripple of objective scrutiny of Israeli policies. just can't get too worked up about one particular show or personality. that's one of my criticisms of Weiss, he sees so many 'turning points', you have to wonder if one of his journalistic shoes is nailed to the floor.
"I suppose you then you must then be FULLY ACCEPTING that 9/11 and Pearl harbour and the bombing of the Murrah building was a case of AMERICA reaping what IT has sown.."
First, it's Pearl Harbor. There is no "u" in Harbor. It's a proper name. It's also of no consequence in this conversation because it was a military assault on a military target. Further, while the real reason it will "live in infamy" was because a non-white nation had dared attack a white nation; the Japanese most likely intended that the attack be preceded by the notification to Hull that negotiations were at an end. So that's irrelevant.
Second, the Murrah building was a crime committed because a bunch of losers in the US disagreed with the manner in which the Federal Government carried out its legitimate police powers. Nothing is the equal here, because no actions by the zionist entity are legitimate, and they're not police actions, but criminal terrorism against the native Palestinian population who are the sole legitimate occupants of the land. So that's irrelevant.
Third, yes, of course 9/11 was a case of America reaping what it had sown. Absolutely. It has caused far worse for far longer in the Arab and Islamic worlds that such an attack was utterly predictable.
And as for Jahjah, only a fool would have expected someone from Lebanon -- a people who've suffered so greatly at the hands of the demonic zionist beast to it's south -- not to feel satisfaction that the state which has supported the zionist beast that inflicted so much horror, fear and unimaginable grief on his own state would suffer a small taste of that which the US, through its vomitous proxy, has inflicted on Lebanon. (The only shame is that those who suffered were in NYC and not in Tel Aviv or West Jerusalem and were not those actually in control of the zionist entity which committed the crimes in the first place.)
Really, what do you expect? The USA has done the devil's work in every way it can to prop up the illegitimate occupiers who've made the lives of those in Palestine, Syria, and Lebanon a living hell over the last 50+ years. Are you so stupid, foolish or naive that you expect that he would feel affection for the US, who bankrolls and protects the zionist entity that has caused nothing but evil, death and destruction for generations?
Great comment Shmuel. Everything Sandra said is poignant and true, but wrt #1, it's just so terribly easy to destroy/deflect/devolve Palestinian leadership efforts with any pseudo-solidarity claim (I don't know if the person was a plant or not, but it doesn't matter, imo) of the anti-semitic variety. As you said the discussion immediately and completely turns away from the principle issue.
As Ms. Tamari said, anti-semitism has no place in their movement and should be immediately shed/tossed out like the plague-infested rat of a concept that it is, but, and I think it's a pretty big but, less sensitivity has to be shown for (a lower priority has to be given to) combating/discussing anti-semitism than for advocating Palestinian justice. It's impossible to do both, imho. And by less sensitivity, I mean by both supportive Jews and Palestinian leaders.
I don't know if I said that right, and even if I did, it's a reflection on a very crappy, imperfect world, but it's hard enough for Palestinians to get traction on their more narrow leadership/advocacy effort without continually being so easily forced to broad-front unresolvable (within the context of their precious time, resources, and personal energy), external issues.
You, others here, and this site in general do a remarkable job of walking that fine line between subordinating what must be pretty hurtful observations about Jews this and Jews that, and unreservedly fronting and supporting Palestinian justice. It must be tough, and I, well, will just reiterate that it is remarkable. A model, in fact.
Peace.
"Aside from the Lod Airport massacre, the PFLP was responsible for numerous bloody terrorist attacks aimed at Israelis, Jews, and Western interests ."
At least have the decency to mention the fact that the majority of the deceased at the airport were not israelis, were not Jews, but were Puerto Rican Christians who were caught up in the retaliation for the zionists crimes against the native Palestinians. But I guess to you zionists, the death of Christians can just be lumped together as "Western interests" and are not as important as the people you consider to be really worthy of noting, like "Israelis [and] Jews."
Miriam,
Not that I would ever laugh out loud to see Mondoweiss FOOLED AGAIN!!
Giving Woman unveiled a platform here, something was uncovered -- transparently revealed, or unveiled one could say.
Who was fooled?
As they say, sometimes you just need to give 'em a long line to step into their very own poop.
Taxi, yes also of a mossad agent -- these are the typical well-to-do tourists destinations.
Camping in Petra for the younger Western set, the trekkers, but clubbing at the Sky Bar Beirut and the Burj Khalifa are for those with access and money.
Unveiled-whatever seems just to be a phony operative.
"Rees speaks of worshipers with 'Slavic' faces in the church. "
Did he mention all the Jews with "Slavic" faces who came from Europe to steal this land from its rightful owners, the Palestinians?
One of the most common cries we hear on campus these days is “Palestine will be free from the river to the sea!”
For years the articles at Wikipedia have had banners at the top claiming that almost nothing about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is undisputed or can be known for certain - except for the fact that Palestine is the conventional name for the geographical region between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River. link to en.wikipedia.org
If you still oppose equal rights and freedom anywhere, then you should probably stick to campus life until you learn a thing or two.
Whats the proof?
JohnAdamTurnball @ "R.S.C. 1985 c. C-38 7.1c loses this arm wrestle to CIFTA 1.4 1. “(b) with respect to Israel the territory where its customs laws are applied;” Does Israel have the right to extend its customs authority over occupied territory? And should Canada legitimize this? These questions were answered in the Brita case at the European Court of Justice case No C-386/08 the court determined that goods manufactured outside the territory of the state of Israel could not claim preferential duty treatment under the terms of the EC-Israel Association Agreement protocol 4 [non originating products]. This decision was probably made easier because of the corresponding and almost identical agreement with the Palestinian Authority for the PLO with the European Commission, this determined the territorial extent of both agreements, these were to be the 1948 green line. In another case before the European court the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus [TRNC] claimed the right to issue customs and other documentation for the right to export their goods from Northern Cyprus to the European Union, the court disagreed and determined that only the Internationally recognized Government of Cyprus had the authority to issue such certificates, see ECJ case No C432/92 Queen v Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food SP Anastasiou [Pissouri] and others, In my opinion if this issue was brought before the ECJ by the Government of Palestine a similar result to the Anastasiou case could be expected. Back to the Canadian issue, pigs will fly before John Laird would lift a finger.