100 Most Recent Comments


jon s
April 28, 2015, 3:46 pm

Israel is the Jewish historic homeland , as proven by the historical and archaeological record, and by the people’s memory. Whether or not present-day Jews are all directly, biologically, descended from the ancient Hebrews or Israelites is impossible to prove and in any case is not important in my view, since I’m not a racist and I’m not concerned with “bloodlines”. Personally, I can trace my ancestry to certain 18th century rabbis. Before that – who knows? – but that’s probably no different from other nations or ethnic groups .

michelle
April 28, 2015, 3:42 pm

.
returning records that were broken so they could be returned is fraud
same with the books
the store owners who unloaded their unsold records for a nickel a piece were at the least as guilty
.
it’s a rabbit hole to crazy town Alice
.
G-d Bless
.

Boo
April 28, 2015, 3:36 pm

“It just sums up everything that’s bad about the BDS movement. You’re all about making sure people turn against one another so that there’s more hate”

That first sentence is a total non sequitur, and the second doesn’t follow from the first — and is, in fact, a charge that’s unsupported by either the evidence or your argument.

jon s
April 28, 2015, 3:32 pm

Kris,
As to your analogy with Denmark:
Show me any other similar narrative: a people living as a dispersed and often -persecuted minority, yearning and praying every day for a return to their historic homeland, maintaining a continuous presence in said homeland, celebrating holidays which reflect the agricultural cycle of said homeland…and I would support their right to return to thir homeland, as long as they wish to live in peace with -and not displace – the rest of the population.

Mooser
April 28, 2015, 3:28 pm

Danaa, I’ve been keeping track, in a small way, and so far I’ve seen (in many different people’s posts, of course)”god”, “God” “GOD” and “G-d and “G-D”. And “G_d”, too.
Can you imagine what He goes through trying to cash a check?

“I’m sorry, Sir, but this check must be endorsed by each one in the Trinity”

“Look here, teller, do you know who I am?”

“Well, to tell You the truth, it’s something I’ve been pondering my whole life. I’m not sure I can really grasp it. I might mention the extreme male-gender identification thing presents a problem, too”

See what I mean?

lysias
April 28, 2015, 3:26 pm

There’s a whole chapter on Dorothy Thompson and her support of the Palestinians in Alison Weir’s recent book Against Our Better Judgment: The hidden history of how the U.S. was used to create Israel, which Weir had to self-publish on Amazon, as she couldn’t get a publisher to publish it. (I read it on my Kindle.)

talknic
April 28, 2015, 3:20 pm

@ Steve Grover

Uh?

Israel is the only country with Nuclear Weapons in the M East and by having them threatens to use them (otherwise there’s no point having them)

Israel does have the most advanced military in the M East.

Israel is the only country in the M East to have illegally acquired by war, territory belonging to it’s neighbours.

Israel is the only country on the planet to be in breach of hundreds of unanimously adopted UNSC resolutions affording Israel hundreds of opportunities to adhere to the binding Laws and UN Charter and relevant conventions those resolutions emphasize and re-affirm.

Israel lies about its borders link to trumanlibrary.org

Israel lies to its own citizens endangering them by encouraging them to illegally settle in non-Israeli territories under occupation.

She was quite correct.

Mooser
April 28, 2015, 3:20 pm

“Thanks for replying to my question, hophmi. Much appreciated, though you seem to be saying that the Torah is trivial, a kind of self-help guide like “How to Win Friends and Influence People.”

No, it’s much more important than that. It’s more like “The Way To Happiness” or “Dianetics: The Modern Science of Mental Health” (both by L Ron Hubbard)

michelle
April 28, 2015, 3:19 pm

.
better to turn the other cheek
than to turn ones back toward G-d
.
G-d Bless
.

catalan
April 28, 2015, 3:18 pm

“Must be one of the reasons we are regularly in the top 3 most liked nations on earth -” Amigo
Not among the top 3 most humble ones though, clearly. I guess you subscribe to “if you’ve got it, flaunt it”. By the way, the royal “we” is cute. I am sure you have been authorized by all Irish to speak on their behalf.

Mooser
April 28, 2015, 3:16 pm

“What is this about syossets and poughkeepsies? I wasn’t aware that you harbored this apparent hatred for towns named after Native Americans.”

Hophmi, you’d better brush up your Yiddish, if the women you will wow, or at any rate, make us all kow-tow!

A “poughkeepsie” is a bad, low person, nasty person. And when I was young, “I’ll send you to a syosset!!” was a threat only uttered under considerable duress. I’m surprised the moderator sent it through, but I got a warning.
You really should know this stuff, Hoph.

Sycamores
April 28, 2015, 3:15 pm

Mayhem,

calling Chris Gunness a propaganda apologist is a bit rich coming from you.

The Shelter Cluster, which coordinates housing construction between the United Nations and non-governmental organisations, estimates that Gaza needs at least 16,000 new units to replace homes destroyed or rendered uninhabitable during the war. In January, 16 truckloads of construction material were permitted into Gaza per day, compared with a need for 735 loads daily for three years to build the necessary homes. These numbers do not account for the additional 5,000 homes that still need to be rebuilt from previous wars or another 80,000 homes necessary to accommodate population growth.

link to theelders.org

Mayhem read this out loud and repeat

16 truckloads of construction material were permitted into Gaza per day, compared with a need for 735 loads daily for three years to build the necessary homes

Kathleen
April 28, 2015, 3:10 pm

The new FB method for sharing is not working. One on the side is working

Kathleen
April 28, 2015, 3:06 pm

Heard Obama reference her. You can be sure he knew exactly what he was doing.

FreddyV
April 28, 2015, 3:05 pm

Excellent article Lloyd.

I do have friends who lived in Rhodesia and are Zionists. They point to the current Mugabe rule as an example of why Israel cannot allow Palestinian rights. Obviously the end result of people choosing a leader like Mugabe shouldn’t be a reason to maintain inequality, I’d be interested in your thoughts on this and how Zimbabweans feel about their current affairs.

Kathleen
April 28, 2015, 3:03 pm

More movement…yes yes yes

The fb share icon not working. Different set up.

Mooser
April 28, 2015, 2:57 pm

“I agree. “Liberal Zionists” may be “kinder, gentler” supremacists, but they’re still supremacists.”

Liberal Zionist are often people who have no real idea of how the Zionist project was accomplished. Their lives may have been such that the idea of thinking about being on the other side of the Jewish “homecoming” is simply not conceivable to them.
Yet, they have a nice superficial veneer of victimology. Never thought of resolving the two.

talknic
April 28, 2015, 2:57 pm

@ Mayhem

“from what do the Gazans have to defend themselves?”

Israeli intransigence against all Palestinians. Being shot for being too close to their own side of the fence. Occupation, as you well know. Your feigned ignorance is cute

” Don’t they realise that Israel would leave them alone if they hadn’t been lobbing thousands of rockets into Israel with the purpose of killing as many innocent Israeli civilians as possible”

Keep repeating your drivel. Hamas, established in 1987, are a response to 90 years of Zionist colonization started in 1897 and 39 years of Israeli occupation beginning in 1948, the illegal acquisition by war by Israel of non-Israeli territory

“Israel left Gaza unilaterally in 2006 “

It’s occupied. UNSC res 1860

“Smuggling weapons into Gaza is hardly conducive to establishing any kind of a peace”

It’s a response to occupation and the illegal acquisition by Israel of non-Israeli territory since 1948 and 90 years of Zionist colonization

“BTW, the true bully on the block is across the river in ISIS land. Hamas aspires to be like ISIS.”

Hamas aspires to be like ISIS according to the Tower? You’re really quite gullible or stupid or a propagandist, likely all three

Steve Grover
April 28, 2015, 2:41 pm

@citizen
I replied to you. The censors didn’t post it.

Mooser
April 28, 2015, 2:37 pm

“You know, you spend I don’t know how long bringing Palestinian and Israeli kids together to meet each other “

I once again owe you an apology, Hophmi. I assumed one thing about your efforts , and all while you are knocking yourself out to encourage Jewish-Palestinian meeting, dating and intermarriage. I apoplogize. That is a noble aim, and can lead to peace, and for that matter, lots of nachos. Glad to hear you are helping to achieve it. I bet you dance at every wedding which results.

just
April 28, 2015, 2:31 pm

Ditto, bintbiba.

Hatim Kanaaneh, once again you grace MW with your wisdom and your brilliant writing! Thank you.

Mooser
April 28, 2015, 2:30 pm

A “liberal Zionist” is (and I would be happy to supply a quintessential example from Mondo archives) is somebody who threatens us with all the horrible “fascist” and “anti-democratic” people in Israel, if we don’t accept their liberal Zionist equivocations.

talknic
April 28, 2015, 2:29 pm

Mayhem

“Chris Gunness is nothing more than a propaganda apologist for Hamas and an advocate for UNRWA that has a vested interest in highlighting and maintaining the plights of Palestinian refugees to help stock its coffers”

Whatever drivel you need to post to keep your bile dripping. Who benefits once in UNRWA’s coffers?

” During the last Gaza war his organisation was implicated when rocket caches were discovered in three UNRWA schools.”

Dis-used schools

“As of January, Israel had dispatched some 50,000 tons of construction material, and in February probably 20,000 tons more – and they were delivered to residents directly under the COGAT protocol that Israel and UNRWA had worked out”

Anyone with a basic knowledge knows one builds from the foundation up. Foundation materials are not supplied.
.
“It seems that Gaza residents who lost their homes are preferring to resell their construction materials to rebuilding their homes. Indubitably much of that material is being used to rebuild terrorist tunnels – something Hamas and Islamic Jihad are bragging about.”

israelnationalnews LOL. An illegal settlers publication? Cute stuff.

There’s never been any terror visited on Israel via these alleged ‘terror’ tunnels.

“Based on the photos coming out of Gaza, not only are no houses being built – but the heavily damaged buildings haven’t even been removed!”

Correct. With what should they remove the heavily damaged buildings? Their bare hands? Maybe Israel could lend a few bulldozers

“Hamas knows quite well that the photos of Gaza devastation translates into cash that will be donated for reconstruction “

Aid doesn’t arrive as money you stupid stupid person

lysias
April 28, 2015, 2:27 pm

These two guys may own the commercial center of Fire Island Pines, but I don’t think they own the whole community. Which, unless I am very much mistaken, is made up of many private residences that are privately owned by different individuals and families.

Anyway, right next to Fire Island Pines is the equally gay community of Cherry Grove, which has been honored by the federal government as the oldest gay community in the U.S., which I know is made up of private residences privately owned, whose many businesses are separately owned, and which totally lacks the crass yuppie atmosphere of The Pines. Its businesses suffered a fire back in March, so the community can very much benefit from any business that it gets from people who choose not to go to The Pines.

just
April 28, 2015, 2:26 pm

Thank you for your post, Boo!

So many stand in solidarity.

amigo
April 28, 2015, 2:25 pm

“The world isn’t a perfect place, and just as Christian nations wouldn’t survive very long if they “turned the other cheek.”.Hopknee.

Oh , I am not so sure about that.Ireland has not once sued Britain for it,s 700 years of oppression.We turned our cheek and put our nose to the grindstone and we have survived quite well , thank you very much.Apart from the odd dip in the road such as certain folks who got greedy and put us back about 10 years.No , the only tangible act of revenge was the disappearance of Admiral Nelson from his 150 feet high perch in our capital. He no longer looks down at us and we never looked up at/to him.

We could be called the Il-Litigious nation.Must be one of the reasons we are regularly in the top 3 most liked nations on earth.How is Israel doing btw.Reached that number one spot yet.Still waiting to unseat I-ran and North Korea.

hophmi
April 28, 2015, 2:23 pm

Alison Weir is a “script consultant.” OK.

According to Thompson’s friend, Meyer Weisgal, Thompson got caught up in the harsh debates between Labor and Revisionist Zionists at the time. Her hero was Chaim Weizmann, and what got her into trouble was not a break with Zionism, but her criticism of Menachem Begin’s terrorism. She was fired from the Post after being criticized for that break, although no one silenced her; after she was fired from the Post, she continued to have a syndicated national column.

After she was fired, she fell in with the ACJ.

Apparently, her popularity was already declining before she became an anti-Zionist. link to books.google.com

Weisgal devotes a chapter to her in his book, “So Far . . .”, where he criticizes the overreaction of Revisionist Zionists to her criticism of Menachem Begin and blames this for her adoption of anti-Zionism, which he says she was abandoning toward the end of her life because she could not stand the anti-Jewish sentiments of her new friends.

It appears that Thompson harbored at least some antisemitic views. In August 1941, she claimed in Harpers that she knew “lots of Jews who are born Nazis and many others who would heil Hitler tomorrow morning if given a chance.”

link to harpers.org

She also accused Jews who supported Israel of dual loyalty, a charge Hitler had used.

link to books.google.com

So the real story appears to be that though Thompson turned against Zionism, and while some accusations against her may have been over the top, it ultimately had little to do with her being forgotten, and indeed, the many articles about her suggest that she has not been forgotten, even if she did not achieve the same notoriety as wartime reporters like Edward R. Murrow, Walter Cronkite, or Ernie Pyle. I would venture to guess that most newspaper columnists and reporters from the 1930’s and 1940’s, whether friendly to Israel’s cause or not, are not well-known today.

marc b.
April 28, 2015, 2:22 pm

that’s really the problem, the last part. the best of Weiss’s posts almost always involve the personal, the anecdotal, both of which may strictly be considered ‘irrelevant’ when discussing big topics. I can’t be bothered doing the maths, but my eye ball test tells me that one person is responsible for at least 20% of the volume of commentary in this thread, commentary chock full of non sequiturs, contradictions, diversionary paths, and so on. I don’t agree with everything Weiss writes, but until proven otherwise i presume that if it upsets Madame Hysteria, he’s got a point.

PilgrimSoul
April 28, 2015, 2:12 pm

We should never forget what the murderers did, and forgiveness should only enter the picture if it is important to the wronged individual as a part of his recovery. What is important is for individuals and societies to deconstruct the aggression that was internalized during the traumatizing events, or during the frequent political use of those events. If the internalized aggression is not deconstructed, the victim will act it out against new victims, or against himself. And it tends to grow stronger with time, especially if the society supports it.

The victim-aggressor will systematically use past trauma as the excuse for acting out his internalized aggression. This is called ‘traumatic privilege.’ If traumatic privilege is institutionalized in a society, it becomes a form of ‘destructive entitlement.’ Israel is already at this last stage.

So how does one deconstruct internalized aggression secondary to past trauma?

There is a new book coming out soon that deals with this very phenomenon. I won’t give away the title, because that is still under discussion. But the title, roughly paraphrased, goes something like this: HOW TO BREAK THE TRAUMA BOND, AND BEAT THE HOLOCAUST: TRAUMATIC MEMORY AND THE STRUGGLE AGAINST SYSTEMIC EVIL.

Stay tuned.

chet
April 28, 2015, 2:06 pm

There would seem to be little doubt that the members of President Obama’s writing team would not had full knowledge of Miss Thompson’s anti-Zionist history and would have included her quote knowing that most of the audience would not have been familiar with her and that they would have used Google to find out more about her background.

So kudos to President Obama and his advisors for this small effort in respect of opening the topic.

eljay
April 28, 2015, 2:03 pm

|| hophmi: Eljay (for about the 20th time), asks me whether I agree with JeffB’s statement … ||

It took 20 requests because you avoided responding to the first 19.

|| I do not agree with JeffB’s sentiment at all. Bigots blame individuals for the acts of their communities, whether they are anti-Muslim bigots, anti-Christian bigots, anti-Jewish bigots, anti-Black bigots, or anti-Hispanic bigots. ||

See? That wasn’t so hard. Next time, don’t run scared from such a simple question.

And thanks for finally answering it. :-)

DaBakr
April 28, 2015, 2:02 pm

another self-righteous defender of human rights who completely breezed over the plight of the American First Nations *……….

*[ ask any First Nation folks in Canada or the American NW how they feel about Thompson’s 2 sentence summation on “aboriginals” and how the Anglo-Brits started this nation. (forgetting the french and spanish as well]

by stating that they were simply a ‘small population’ of inconsequential tribal aboriginals that had no real bearing on the great Anglo-Saxon colonizers who came to set up the ‘greatest nation on earth’.
It is one thing to acknowledge that America has made a great contribution to the world in terms of expanding the notion of every human being born equal but it is disingenuous and hypocritical in the extreme to gloss over exactly who was exterminated, pushed out and de-humanized in the process -all while focusing her rigteous indignation at the Zionists.

Also-I seriously doubt there was any ‘concerted campaign’ to silence her. It was more likely a result of how information is spread by any other social network. In this case American Jews who were OVERWHELMINGLY pro-Zionisy in the 40s simply read what she wrote, didn’t like it one bit, did not appreciate her as a prophetic voice and simply responded vocally their displeasure. It could have been any number of subjects that might egg on public ire that might affect a journalists career. But in this case it was her early anti-Zionist stance. Unless the assumption is the millions of American Zionists in the late 40s should have embraced the author as their ‘friendly kindhearted critic’ who means well (which she very well did)
Her analogies the the exception to dual-loyalties, dual-nationalities and how the American Negro was the exception are weak and could easily be brought down. Also-her implication that American immigrants from other nations -with this “new” exception of Jews since the birth of Israel-have ‘never before’ observed any type of dual loyalty is absurd. Dozens of nations allow dual citizenship that pre-dates Israel.
its too easy to paint her as some kind of victim when she continued to write about what her heart told her to write. People-including Zionists-can not be forced to want to read yet more and more articles either warning, excoriating, criticizing and admonishing their newly embraced enthusiasm and support for the birth of Israel and the Zionism that goes hand-in-hand with that.

Also- its worth noting the non-controversial use of the term “terrorist” to describe Begin in her articles. Its always assumed as if Israelis never ever could accept one of their own as a terrorist but its obvious that his actions-wether they were embraced, celebrated or horrified-were at the root-terroristic. Its just another small point of contention in the i/p propaganda war in that nobody of any merit is arguing that Jewish militants did not engage in terrorism at that time but it is not and has never been gov’t approved policy.

As for the author? Did she really suffer -or- did she simply stand by her own set of moral guides? Yes-the charge of anti-Semitism is often thrown around carelessly but in the balance-the supposed CREDIBILITY of having a connection to Judaism is also thrown around by anti-semitc groups with Jewish members or Groups which use “jewish” in their names to lend credibility to their criticism/slanders. It works both ways (especially with the Jews and their idd status as an ethno/religio/nation from which there seems to be no escape–which is probably why its so irritating to anti-Zionists and Zionists alike. )

eljay
April 28, 2015, 1:58 pm

|| Steve Grover: Israel should call itself “Eretz Yisrael” in Hebrew and Jewland in English so everyone gets it. ||

Unless Jewish becomes the bureaucratic nationality (no religious conversion required) of all citizens of, immigrants to and expats and refugees (e.g., the Palestinians) from Jewland – a nationality that bestows full and equal rights to all who hold it – “Jewland” is just the supremacist “Jewish State” of Israel with a different colour of lipstick.

Steve Grover
April 28, 2015, 1:43 pm

Israel should call itself “Eretz Yisrael” in Hebrew and Jewland in English so everyone gets it.

Kris
April 28, 2015, 1:36 pm

@Mayhem: “from what do the Gazans have to defend themselves?”

What about Israeli soldiers shooting at Palestinian farmers in Gaza, and hitting a 14-year-old Palestinian boy who was sitting in his house trying to study? link to maannews.com

I know there’s no point in Palestinian children trying to study, since Israel will prevent them from going to college abroad even when they have been awarded scholarships, but if this had been a Jewish boy shot by Palestinians, we in the U.S. would never hear the end of it and there would be hell to pay.

But it’s only a Palestinian child, so most people in the U.S. will never hear about this, and the soldier who shot this boy will never face any consequences.

Citizen
April 28, 2015, 1:32 pm

I agree there’s a day of reckoning coming to the Arab klan regimes propped up by US oil interests & AIPAC’S agenda. The wealth of these oil regimes compared to the utter dependency of their citizens makes the US income Gap tiny in comparison–although US income gap grows like Topsy & is now beyond The Gilded Age.

amigo
April 28, 2015, 1:29 pm

The usual suspects here will tell us this is of no consequence and will not defeat Israel.Why, these are just crazy people with no political power or influence.

Makes you wonder why Israel is so adamant in fighting BDS in their efforts to criminalise pro BDS speech or actions both in Israel and the US/Canada and in those parts of Europe where they are lent an ear.Oh I forgot to mention Micronesia and Palau, (oooh , shiver me timbers.)

None of those efforts will prevent people worldwide from making their own decisions at the point of purchase and that is what will eventually end the zionist entity.Money is what keeps Israel afloat and loss of it will bring it down and see it replaced by a single state with justice and equality for all.

Btw , when is nietanyahu going to form a gov.Isn,t the time up on that.

Citizen
April 28, 2015, 1:24 pm

Atta boy, mock somebody who knew what they were talking about from first hand experience and warned us all. The revolutionary war of USA was fought between colonial subjects of Britain and Britain itself, Palestinians are colonial subjects on their own native ground, Palestinians have never colonized anyone.

Israel snookered the US and France to get its 200 nukes. Unlike Iran, it’s not a member of the NNPT & so, nobody inspects or monitors Israel’s stockpile of nukes. It works daily to cement the lands it controls via force of arms, and to grab more of that same land. There’s not been a sign yet that Israel’s lebensraum policy will ever end, despite the fact it’s illegal under international law and by official US foreign policy, at least weakly: Official US policy joined with international law, that is, settlements are illegal, although this firm stance (in words only) has now been diluted by AIPAC donor dollars to “obstacle to peace.”

HarryLaw
April 28, 2015, 1:22 pm

It might appear the Arab dictators have conceded Israel’s power in the middle east, together with the backing of the US and most of the west, to its imagined and hoped for ‘leading power’ status. One only has to hear what Prince Turki al-Faisal said to Amos Yadlin at a meeting in Israel.. “The most striking statement came from Prince Turki. He said the Arabs had ‘crossed the Rubicon’ and ‘don’t want to fight Israel anymore.’” link to consortiumnews.com The dictators can speak for themselves, in my opinion, the so called ‘Arc of extremism’ Iran, Iraq, Syria and Lebanon will one day sweep these parasites from power.

Kris
April 28, 2015, 1:21 pm

@Mayhem: “…from what do the Gazans have to defend themselves?”

This is a good question, but it has been answered right here on mondoweiss too many times to count. An easy way for you to get up to speed on why the Palestinians in Gaza and elsewhere need to defend themselves from Israel would be to read a few months-worth of Kate’s column, “Today in Palestine.” These columns are very easy to access. Just click on “Israel/Palestine” at the top of the mondoweiss home page and start scrolling down.

Here’s an interesting, recent article by Philip Weiss that should interest you, about how daily Jewish Israeli attacks on Palestinians are not “news,” but any Palestinian dud rocket falling on an empty field is big news: link to mondoweiss.net

If you’re going to post here, you should actually read the articles and inform yourself about the issues. Just saying.

just
April 28, 2015, 12:53 pm

Thank you, Kris.

eljay
April 28, 2015, 12:52 pm

|| Donald: Anyway, here’s the advice. Focus on the racism. … Don’t mix irrelevancies in with serious criticism. ||

Good advice.

|| And look what happened in this thread. Are we discussing the racism of American Jewish supporters of Israel? Nope. It’s all about anti-semitism. Again. ||

That’s inevitable when hophmi’s involved. He notices anti-Semitism in just about anything.

Philip Weiss
April 28, 2015, 12:50 pm

Yes thanks Froggy, very helpful

Danaa
April 28, 2015, 12:48 pm

Michelle – what is “G-d”? any one in particular? (there are so many G-Ds!).

As for “love” – may be you need a better translation of the hagadah?

And it is, I believe “seder”, not “sedar” (check you CZ dictionary…or the Book of Selections -from-Left-Behind).

Donald
April 28, 2015, 12:47 pm

Phil, let me give you some advice as one self-hater to another. In my case it’s self-hatred of part of my white southern heritage. I think there’s a tremendous amount of overlap between the hypocrisy you find in some white southerners and that you’ll find in many Jewish supporters of Israel. At bottom it’s just racism and it is no accident that many of Israel’s strongest American non-Jewish supporters are white evangelical southerners. They just retargeted some of their old-fashioned bigotry against a new group–Palestinians.

Anyway, here’s the advice. Focus on the racism. I think your corrupt businessman story about breaking records is dumb–corrupt business types can be found in all ethnic groups. And rich people of any sort are often self-indulgent. You may not like aspects of American Jewish culture just as I don’t like some aspects of stereotypical white southern culture (grits, country music. etc…), but this is irrelevant. Don’t mix irrelevancies in with serious criticism.

And look what happened in this thread. Are we discussing the racism of American Jewish supporters of Israel? Nope. It’s all about anti-semitism. Again.

Incidentally, the “self-hater” phrase I’m using ironically. I think you’re angry and disgusted, as you should be by the blind support for Israel, but I also think you’re sort of shooting blindly here, when you should be aiming your shots a lot more carefully.

eljay
April 28, 2015, 12:45 pm

|| Mayhem: @blah chick, from what do the Gazans have to defend themselves? Don’t they realise that Israel would leave them alone if they hadn’t been lobbing thousands of rockets into Israel with the purpose of killing as many innocent Israeli civilians as possible. Israel left Gaza unilaterally in 2006 and Hamas decided to turn Gaza into a launching platform for attacks against Israel instead of building a viable society there. Smuggling weapons into Gaza is hardly conducive to establishing any kind of a peace. ||

The victim in the rapist’s basement (kidnapped, put there, kept there and regularly assaulted by the rapist…but we won’t mention that) has nothing to defend herself against. If only she’d stop trying to harm the rapist, he’d – no, he wouldn’t stop raping her and he wouldn’t set her free, but he’d stop occasionally beating her to a pulp.

And why doesn’t that ungrateful bitch take advantage of all the textbooks and other reading materials the rapist has provided to her in an effort to improve her education? Making shivs out of scraps she finds in the basement is hardly conducive to establishing any kind of a peace*.

(*Zio-supremacists love to talk about peace, but they detest – and detest talking about – justice, accountability and equality.)

pabelmont
April 28, 2015, 12:41 pm

Many politicians rank high on the sociopathic inventory tests. They don’t feel the effects of their cruelty on others, but they like being cruel. Look at all those republicans trying to slash all budgets for “people” while amping up the budgets for “defense” and surveillance (of Americans!). Geller is part of that world, just a little more “out there” and “up front”. And telling lies is nothing for those people.

Donald
April 28, 2015, 12:36 pm

“But I’ve found on British campuses that it was the liberal Zionists who were most effective in whitewashing Israel and its war crimes.”

That’s true everywhere, I suspect , though keeping in mind David Samel’s distinction between liberal Zionists like Jerry Slater, who is completely honest about Israel’s long record of atrocities, and liberal Zionists of the more common sort that you are describing, who are mostly whitewashers. We have some who comment here. They generally make noises about opposing settlements, but tend to get angry and dismissive if someone goes into more detail about Israeli atrocities, and they supported the slaughter in Gaza last summer. A self-described liberal Zionist is a better whitewasher than an openly arrogant and annoying person like Netanyahu. They can sigh and talk about their desire for peace and establish credibility with people who don’t pay close attention to the issue, and then defend Israel’s abuses.

hophmi
April 28, 2015, 12:36 pm

Oh Giles, get over it. No one imagined that six million Jews (more tha half the Jews in Europe) were murdered, or that 91% of Jewish Poles were murdered, or that millions of Jews, and many others, died in concentration camps, or that babies were smashed against walls, or that Josef Mengele experimented on Jewish bodies and many others. It happened, and no one is saying that Jews were the exclusive victims. Stop making up this ridiculous fantasy about how Jews who tell the story of what happened to their friends and family are somehow elevating their victimhood above others by daring to tell their own stories. No one has done as much as the Jewish community has to tell the story of the Holocaust, including the stories of others persecuted and massacred by the Nazis, such as Roma and homosexuals, and the disabled.

Steve Grover
April 28, 2015, 12:36 pm

“but a Zionist state destined to become the leading power in the Middle East.” The sky is falling! the sky is falling! She should’ve gotten on horseback (or camelback) and yelled the Yiddish are coming! the Yiddish are coming!

Citizen
April 28, 2015, 12:33 pm

Nothing on Dorothy Thompson’s demise nor why it happened and so fast in her Wikipedia entry. The Wiki article does list some of her other (once) famous quotes, among them the “Christmas Declaration by men and women of German ancestry” which she wrote to counter the German American Bund, which had drawn 20,000 fans to Madison Square Garden to praise Hitler, just a few years earlier; as a real journalist, she understood the man-bites-dog news value of German-Americans protesting against Germany.

The World Jewish Congress agreed to foot the bill for publishing Thompson’s anti-Nazi statement as a newspaper ad. She drafted the text and set about recruiting signatories. It appeared as a Dec 22 full-page ad in the NYT and 9 other major daily newspapers:

“[W]e Americans of German descent raise our voices in denunciation of the Hitler policy of cold-blooded extermination of the Jews of Europe and against the barbarities committed by the Nazis against all other innocent peoples under their sway,” the declaration began. “These horrors … are, in particular, a challenge to those who, like ourselves are descendants of the Germany that once stood in the foremost ranks of civilization.” The ad went on to “utterly repudiate every thought and deed of Hitler and his Nazis,” and urged the people of Germany “to overthrow a regime which is the infamy of German history.”

I bet her ghost would be happy to see an equivalent ad in those papers today re Zionism, “We Americans of Jewish descent raise our voices in denunciation…”

Obama may have been cunningly pleading for this to that room full of stenographers with their trophy dates. Or maybe all he knew about Dorothy Thompson was his crib sheet spiel ripped of Wikipedia by one of his lackies missioned with picking a really star journalist to mention in his speech.

Mooser
April 28, 2015, 12:33 pm

“You know, you spend I don’t know how long bringing Palestinian and Israeli kids together to meet each other to maybe make peace more of a reality on the ground when there were ongoing negotiations”

What a charming place Israel must be, a land run by children, administered by children, with children running its Army, Security services and Air Force.

Gosh, i hope this kids don’t do anything, well, childish. You keep working on those kids, Hophmi. Never mind the grown-ups.

Mooser
April 28, 2015, 12:18 pm

“And when you see my religion has a geo-political strategy,
You’ll say a better ethnic group has never, ever sat a’gee!”

Mooser
April 28, 2015, 12:12 pm

BTW, I don’t want to hear any put-downs about lox First of all, good lox means security. Yale and Master are the two most well-known brands of lox in America.
And never forget, for many people lox is the gateway to sushi. It was for me, and I’ll always be grateful for it.

Blownaway
April 28, 2015, 12:07 pm

It is indeed truly prescient to read her comments, true today like then. But if anyone thinks that Obama will do anything other than subtle hints is delusional. It’s past time for subtle, when Sheldon Adelson is in cobtrol of 2/3 of government, nothing short of bold move to take back our country will work now

RockyMissouri
April 28, 2015, 12:07 pm

Thank you for this. Truth matters.

Mooser
April 28, 2015, 12:06 pm

“Or is it humor that all the non-Jews can laugh at the ‘funny Jew speaker’”

Gosh, “dabakr”, I’m not getting you at all. Why shouldn’t I talk like my parents and my relatives (except they were much, much more fluent)?
Do I have something to be ashamed of? I’m pretty much a Jew, you know and I talk like one. My small fund of Yiddish, paltry tho it is, connects me with people long gone who I loved. Something wrong with that?

Now, “Dabakr”, I make you a promise, if you are ashamed of being a Jew, ashamed of the way we talk, and think people are laughing at us, I promise to try and help you with that problem. Just keep repeating to yourself “I’m good enough, I’m smart enough, and darn it, people like me!”

Mooser
April 28, 2015, 11:59 am

“A little. Minimalism is not my thing.”

Well, to each is own. Say, you wanna look at some pornographic ink blots, Hophmi? If you want, they can be anti-semitic inkblots, too!

lysias
April 28, 2015, 11:57 am

Iran insists Israel ‘give up the bomb’ as Tehran seeks nuclear-free Middle East:

Iran has demanded that Israel give up its “nuclear weapons”, as it spoke on behalf of the 120-nation Non-Aligned Movement. Iran’s Foreign Minister, Mohammad Javad Zarif said the bloc also wants a nuclear free-zone in the Middle East.

Mohammad Javad Zarif was speaking at the United Nations for the non-aligned group of countries. Israel has never admitted or denied the widespread assumption it has nuclear weapons. However, Zarif says Israel’s assumed nuclear arsenal was a threat to regional security.

The Iranian Foreign Minister said the non-aligned movement regards Israel’s nuclear program as, “a serious and continuing threat to the security of neighboring and other states, and condemned Israel for continuing to develop and stockpile nuclear arsenals,” according to Reuters.

Citizen
April 28, 2015, 11:55 am

I learned about Dorothy Thompson’s star career & what demolished it when Helen Thomas was given the boot, just by googling articles discussing the sudden Thomas demise.

Bumblebye
April 28, 2015, 11:54 am

@Mayhem

Why do you refer to the Palestinians in Gaza as Gazan when only somewhere between a quarter and a third of them are? The vast majority are Palestinians displaced from what became “Israel” before, during and long after 1948. Israel still expels or banishes Palestinians from other areas to Gaza right up to now. I’m sure they have rights along with property, worth fighting for!

Chu
April 28, 2015, 11:54 am

Great point. It would be like every time I go to an Indian reservation to get some smokes, I would have to apologize for Wounded Knee.

Sycamores
April 28, 2015, 11:41 am

the silencing of Dorothy Thompson has obviously work, i’m sadden to see i wasn’t the only who didn’t knew of her.
yet according to her great niece Betsy Reeves, Dorothy Thompson could walked into Franklin D Roosevelt office without an appointment. what influence this woman had and what a shame on those for silencing her.

today nothing has change.

how quiet MSM is on former US President Jimmy Carter on undertaking Saudi-backed mediation efforts between rival Palestinian factions Hamas and Fatah.

link to middleeastmonitor.com

Both the president and prime minister declined the invitations after consulting with the Foreign Ministry and the National Security Council

A senior diplomatic official told Channel 10, which broke the news, that Carter is “a disaster for Israel,” and that all Israeli leaders should refrain from meeting the former president, due to his “anti-Israel positions.”

The official was also quoted as saying that while Netanyahu and Rivlin refused to meet with him, Israel had approved Carter’s request to visit the Gaza Strip.

Carter will reportedly arrive sometime in the next 10 days for meetings with Israeli and Palestinian leaders.

link to americanthinker.com

Netanyahu and Rivlin can declined the invitations all they want but have not got the chutzpah to stop him going to Gaza.

oldgeezer
April 28, 2015, 11:41 am

Well said Froggy. I think I would find it hard to give a blanket forgiveness but it is time to bury the hate. There are uncles I will never know but carrying the negativity will not do me any good. Nor will it bring them home.

just
April 28, 2015, 11:39 am

Thank you for your very powerful post, Froggy.

(Say hello to Halina!)

hophmi
April 28, 2015, 11:39 am

What is this about syossets and poughkeepsies? I wasn’t aware that you harbored this apparent hatred for towns named after Native Americans.

oldgeezer
April 28, 2015, 11:38 am

It boggles the mind. The woman is either certifiable or genocidal. Possibly both.

tony greenstein
April 28, 2015, 11:37 am

There is of course an easy answer to the question whether there’s room in an anti-Zionist movement for liberal Zionists. And that is ‘no’. By definition liberal Zionists are not anti-Zionists. Of course there’s room for them to cross over, we should be happy to debate them but their illusion, that it is possible to have a democratic and a Jewish state is a dangerous one which in practice has led to a reinforcement of a very undemocratic Jewish state.

Of course in Israel it is different and there may be co-operation between anti-Zionists and Meretz. But even the Joint List, with Hadash in a minority, refused to have a vote sharing agreement which might have saved Meretz if it had fallen short of the 3.2% threshold for getting into the Knesset.

But I’ve found on British campuses that it was the liberal Zionists who were most effective in whitewashing Israel and its war crimes.

hophmi
April 28, 2015, 11:36 am

Eljay (for about the 20th time), asks me whether I agree with JeffB’s statement that: “There is nothing anti-Semitic with blaming Jews for stuff that Jews institutionally support. … Not holding the Jews responsible for Jewish policy on the excuse that ‘well some Jews didn’t agree’ is denying them agency.”

I do not agree with JeffB’s sentiment at all. Bigots blame individuals for the acts of their communities, whether they are anti-Muslim bigots, anti-Christian bigots, anti-Jewish bigots, anti-Black bigots, or anti-Hispanic bigots. Any community should be free to pursue what they believe is in their best interest as a community without their individual number being attacked for it.

Of course, that certainly doesn’t stop anyone from saying that there is a Jewish community, represented by Jewish communal institutions, that advocate certain political positions that one may find morally objectionable, just as it wouldn’t stop me from saying that there is a Palestinian community, represented by certain institutions, that advocates positions that I may find morally objectionable. The line between saying that, and engaging in a form of bigotry, is where people obsess over the Jewish community in a way that is out of all proportion to its importance and size, and out of all relation to historical context or geopolitical reality, so as to create the appearance that Jews who support Israel are somehow qualitatively worse than other national communities who support their nation-states or national liberation movements. The other line I draw is when Jews are accused of wielding some great power in American society to the disadvantage of other Americans, which is an old antisemitic canard. That accusation is unfortunately common here, and it seems to be the basis of this post.

iResistDe4iAm
April 28, 2015, 11:36 am

I wonder how many fallen non-Jewish Israeli soldiers are buried at Mt Herzl military cemetery…

link to jpost.com

weiss
April 28, 2015, 11:35 am

She was a great woman!

Obama is definitely sending the press a subliminal message to get their shit together…

eljay
April 28, 2015, 11:33 am

|| Froggy @ April 28, 2015, 11:25 am ||

Good post. Thank you.

Philip Weiss
April 28, 2015, 11:29 am

Adding another voice to the chorus. Thank you Gil, I didn’t know this story. It’s incredible to me to see How much was known plainly in 1948– and how much our discourse denied. When will that pattern end.

Froggy
April 28, 2015, 11:25 am

When I bought the house in one of the English Home Counties Halina came with it. Halina had been an obstretical nurse in Poland. In the UK she is our maid.

I always serve her tea and a light lunch, which gives us time to chat. It’s not too difficult for me to talk to Halina. Though she speaks little English and no French, I speak some Polish, and we both speak Russian. In time we became friends.

One day we got to talking about family. It wasn’t a nice conversation, as she described how her family in Poland was pretty much wiped out by the Germans, as was mine in France. I asked her whether she hated the Germans. She switched over to her heavily-accented English, and what she had to say was so memorable that I never forgot it: ‘Hate…? What good this hate? What does hate make but more hate? Hate makes more hate and then hate goes on forever. Then there is more suffering because of this hate and then more hate. No good this hate. I don’t hate.’

I don’t know whether Halina forgives the Germans who killed her family. It seemed to intimate a question for me to ask.

I don’t forgive the Germans who killed my family and so many others in my village. However, those men are certainly dead by now. I have no reason to hate their children or grandchildren who, after all, didn’t kill anyone.

The time for hatred is past. I don’t know about forgiveness. I’m not sure that I know what forgiveness even means. However, at the least, old hatreds must be put aside if any of us are to continue living in a sane and rational manner.

lysias
April 28, 2015, 11:25 am

Separation of powers and divided government have turned out in the end not to prevent the rule of an oligarchy, as the political class and its plutocratic funders have recognized that they share common interests different from those of the rest of the population. Robert Michels developed his Iron law of oligarchy (that rule by an elite is inevitable in a representative democracy) for modern representative democracies, to which the law certainly does seem to apply.

The one kind of government that seems to have successfully limited the political power of elites was direct democracy of the ancient Greek kind, which indeed made use of representatives (the Boule Council upper house of the legislature, the whole system of courts, most officials), but chose them randomly, by lot, out of the whole citizen body. I keep urging that we should adopt this system, at least for the lower houses of our legislatures, but I’m having a hard time persuading people.

a blah chick
April 28, 2015, 11:16 am

“The ad reads: Killing Jews is Worship that draws us close to Allah”

O my dear Lord, Pammy-Shrugs has managed to take the crazy up another notch. Amazing.

David Doppler
April 28, 2015, 11:07 am

This whole post seems an invitation to prejudice, but this deserves special mention:

“I said that [the Israel lobby] reflected a contract the American establishment had made with Jews to drive the economy in the 1970s. We were really good at the four horses of the global economy (finance, software, education, and media) . . . ; and in exchange for that leading role, the government would support Israel.”

You know that “the Jews” didn’t get together and negotiate any such thing, and that “the American establishment” didn’t get together and negotiate the other side, don’t you? It’s ludicrous. The American establishment? where at its tony clubs? “Hey, join us, A, B, and C, and some of the other fellows tonight. We’re going to get the Jews to drive the four horses of the economy for us. Boy oh boy, will we make money, you betcha. All we have to do is support their Zionist project in Israel. No brainer. Phew. Now we don’t have to worry about the economy any more.”

America is constitutionally a meritocracy, with limited, divided and competitive government, dispersed wells of power, all designed to prevent power elites from performing too much of the mischief they are historically so famous for. Your explanation of the Israel Lobby dismisses all of that, in favor of a belief that there is always an elite, America is no different from every ancient or Medieval kingdom, where “the Jews” struck their fateful bargains with “the other.”

The reason you haven’t felt prejudice is that, for the most part, the American people struck a bargain with themselves 225 years ago to create a different kind of government and society that values its constitutional principles above all others, and which has led it through its twists and turns, exploring its many imperfections that haven’t prevented it ever striving to be more perfect.

I would say the Israel Lobby reflects a temporary abuse of power relationships fueled by political contributions and organized (but partially concealed in their collaboration) political, media and social efforts designed to punish those who fail to support the power relationships, and to reward those who do. It’s worked very effectively since the 70s, but is in process of falling apart due to the bankruptcy of the strategic leadership provided by Netanyahu and the Neocons, who keep upping the ante while holding a hand with nothing in it but a failed ideology, as a new generation looks on in disgust.

Krauss
April 28, 2015, 11:02 am

Let me add to the heaps of praise that has been showered on you already for bringing her to our attention.

I, too, like so many others here have not heard of her at all until now. Now I know why! It’s also interesting to see that the common perception that Zionism really started to turn after ’67 in America was untrue. The Zionist lobby was strong already back then and this doesn’t square with the mythology that Jews were unempowered in the WWII and immediate aftermath of it.

It’s a shame to see how a brilliant career could be ended just because she chose to speak truth to power.

joemowrey
April 28, 2015, 11:02 am

Thanks, eljay. I was hoping someone would point this out. The irony is this author using Obama to pin his article. And more so, implying that the room full of toadies who comprise the White House press corp are actually journalists.

Kris
April 28, 2015, 11:00 am

So happy to learn of this! Thank you for this article.

MRW
April 28, 2015, 11:00 am

Rabbi Jack Cohen once told me that when he was living in Palestine in 1947, he was opposed to partition, hoping for a bi-national state in which Arabs and Jews could live as equals. He also told me that (Reconstructionist founder) Mordecai Kaplan agreed with him. That is an important legacy.

My mentor, the one I met when he was 83 and still teaching (me), was also the one who made a reverse aliyah. I’ve written about him here before.

He told me the history of Israel, and how it was created. He said everyone he knew was against partition and he was a bigwig in Manhattan then. He had exactly the same opinion as Cohen and Kaplan. One of the reasons he had at that time was that having an equal population there would protect Jews, not harm them if there ever were a repeat of WWII. Their fellow citizens could hide them. He called the Irgun “terrorists” who destroyed the start of Israel.

Mooser
April 28, 2015, 10:58 am

“I’m not sure what you’re getting at.”

I’m sorry, Dan. I think if you take a look at the comment thread for the “MLI faithwashing” post. you will see what I mean.

CitizenC
April 28, 2015, 10:58 am

There is a great passage in Elmer Berger’s “Memoir of an Anti-Zionist Jew” about Dorothy Thompson in 1955 taking him to a meeting with Turner Catledge, editor of the NYT, to protest the Times’s “Hitler on the Nile” editorials against Nasser. These contrasted sharply with the reports of the paper’s Egypt correspondent, Kennett Love, who noted Nasser’s animus, but also its basis in Palestine and the 1948 war, and Nasser’s desire for peace in order to develop Egypt.

Thompson confronted Catledge with the contradiction, taking him aback. After some embarrassment he essentially said that news and editorial weren’t related, that Love was not the source of all wisdom, that the paper’s readers were acutely concerned about Nasser, not about Egyptian development, and that was that.

Berger was by then already jaded about the Times, having dealt with them since the mid-1940s, when the American Council for Judaism was campaigning against Jewish statehood. There is another account in the late 1960s, when a successor at the ACJ dragged him to another meeting, with then editor Clifton Daniel, to impress on him that not all American Jews were chauvinist about Israel.

Somewhat to Berger’s surprise the Times did run a piece about the ACJ’s opposition. But of course their news and editorial coverage continued the American Jewish establishment party line.

oldgeezer
April 28, 2015, 10:57 am

A fascinating and perceptive lady. I confess I wasn’t aware of her. It strikes me as a little odd for Obama to raise her as he has not been the most journalist friendly president.

Aside from the IP issue there seems to less investigative journalism in all areas of the msm these daya. Hopefully some journalists will be inspired.

pabelmont
April 28, 2015, 10:57 am

Thanks Gil. New to me and very refreshing. A near-presidential candidate silenced by The Lobby ™ or its predecessors. If memory serves, Hillary Clinton was once a friend with Mrs. Arafat. Hmmm, not recently mentioned.

eljay
April 28, 2015, 10:45 am

Many readers will find President Obama’s toast to the press at the end of Saturday night’s White House Correspondents Association dinner encouraging. He reminded journalists of their actual mission:

“It is not the fact of liberty but the way in which liberty is exercised that ultimately determines whether liberty itself survives.”

There’s a supreme irony in Obama quoting Thompson, whose truly stellar career ended in charges of antisemitism from Zionists, to a crowd of journalists who quake in fear of having their careers destroyed by Israel supporters …

There’s a supreme irony in Obama – who supports many injustices including aggression, torture, assassination, expansionism and supremacism – cautioning his audience about the abuse of liberty.

Mooser
April 28, 2015, 10:43 am

“Why the sudden change from Israelis”

How many times do I have to say it? Zionists always blame the Jews.

pabelmont
April 28, 2015, 10:41 am

Friends using consensus agreements to do the right thing is impressive, a model for other communities, though not necessarily a model to be strictly emulated — what with the divisiveness the Zionist opposition always inspires.

I would like to know about any students at Earlham who may initially not have been comfortable with this outcome (when it was first discussed). What made them change their minds? How have they become comfortable with the outcome?

Mooser
April 28, 2015, 10:38 am

Great article Mr. Maguire!

I should have known, I should have realized! Mention a syosset once, and I’m being moderated again! Oh well, I knew I was going too far with that. Serves me right.

Kris
April 28, 2015, 10:34 am

@hophmi: “Hillel’s maxim is an ideal for interpersonal relations. It’s not necessarily a geopolitical strategy. The world isn’t a perfect place, and just as Christian nations wouldn’t survive very long if they “turned the other cheek.”

Thanks for replying to my question, hophmi. Much appreciated, though you seem to be saying that the Torah is trivial, a kind of self-help guide like “How to Win Friends and Influence People.”

But that does explain why most Jews are comfortable with ethnic cleansing, etc., in order to achieve their “geopolitical strategy” of stealing everything that the Palestinians own.

Do you know of any “Christian” nations? I can’t think of any. Such a nation would live by Jesus’s teachings: share what we have, accept the stranger as our brother, love our neighbor as much as we love ourselves(!), and return good (not retribution and war) for evil. Jesus was not talking about just getting along with the people in our town.

Most “Christians” don’t believe Jesus’s teachings, any more than most “Jews” actually believe that God meant it when he warned them so many times to be kind to the stranger, and to trust in Him, and not in their own strength and weapons.

Maybe we would all be better off if Israel did not claim to be the “Jewish” state, since this sets up such cognitive dissonance about Judaism?

(Cuba seems the closest I can find to following “Christian” ideals, since Cuba is so generous with medical aid to the poor people of the world, has saved the sight of so many poor people throughout Latin America by providing free cataract surgery, and, though so very poor, has made it a priority to ensure that all of its people are fed, educated, housed, and have medical care. But of course Cuba does not claim to be “Christian” at all.)

Donald
April 28, 2015, 10:28 am

Fascinating. I never heard of her. I saw the Hepburn movie “Woman of the Year”, but didn’t know it was based on a real person.

David Samel
April 28, 2015, 10:19 am

Thanks for this very thoughtful essay. One of the problems in discussing “liberal Zionists” is the extraordinarily vast spectrum of individuals described by that term. Ahmed includes Dershowitz as an LZ, which I suppose is arguable because he would so describe himself – a Zionist who believes in the necessity and permanence of a Jewish State but also supports the two-state solution. But he also is a despicable liar who whitewashes the historical record and responds to any pressure Israel to end the occupation with hysterical, false smears of anti-Semitism. On the other hand, Uri Avnery is a liberal Zionist who has a long record of exposing Israeli crimes, ridiculing Israeli leaders, and even defying Israeli “law.” The differences could not be more stark. I would include Norman Finkelstein, Jerry Slater, Kathleen Peratis, even Peter Beinart among those honest liberal Zionists who either support the notion of a Jewish State or at least tolerate it but also offer honest appraisals of Israel’s history and genuinely support some degree of pressure for change.

Another problem is the huge spectrum in what is meant by “engaging” with liberal Zionists, ranging from conferences and discussions over the extent to which Israeli Jews should rule over the non-Jewish population, to invitations to LZ’s to shed once and for all their “chauvinist nationalism” and opt for “true liberalism,” as Ahmed puts it. It makes perfect sense to reject the former while engaging in the latter. I think that expressions of contempt for all liberal Zionists is counter-productive, as sincere liberals can be a major source of potential converts to anti-Zionism.

My own history bears this out. I collected “charity” for the JNF in little blue boxes as a child, became very gradually disenchanted with Israeli “excesses” that I considered over-reactions to actual provocations, but did not make the leap to re-thinking the entire Zionist enterprise until well into my 40’s. I think it entirely reasonable for those who saw the light at an earlier age to ask what took me so long, but it is not easy to discard ideologies that were instilled at an early age. Movement in the right direction is rarely immediate or even swift. I say this not in defense of my own slow-moving evolution but only to emphasize that I am not alone, and that if any insults were hurled my way back then, it only would have retarded my progress. It is one thing to refuse to compromise on the inviolability of the principle of equality, but another to repel those who are moving “too slowly” to embrace it.

Of course, it’s much easier for me to tolerate those who are making the same glacial journey that I once did than it might be for Palestinians who have been enduring rank racism for their entire lives. There may be a fine line between reasonable expressions of impatience and nasty ones of outright contempt, but I think it is worth recognizing that line and staying on the right side of it. A couple of years ago, I winced at the hit job on Norman Finkelstein authored by Steven Salaita and published by Ali Abunimah – link to electronicintifada.net, even though I had criticized in detail NF’s two-state plan the year before – link to mondoweiss.net and link to mondoweiss.net The Salaita essay directly draws an equivalence between Finkelstein and Dershowitz, saying they both envision the same end product. I think Finkelstein has acted rudely and wrongly himself in his criticism of those he sees to his left, but lumping him with Dershowitz is a fratricidal exercise that is more likely to fracture than strengthen the community of those who would like to hold Israel’s feet to the fire. Rejecting Finkelstein’s enormous contributions to the debate seems enormously ill-advised.

There has been much progress in recent years in shifting the terms of the debate. What once was unmentionable in mainstream media – a vision of true democracy and equal rights for all – is now finding more and more exposure. But there has been no relief from the misery imposed on millions of Palestinians. More converts to the cause are required, and entreaties to liberal Zionists, without compromise but also without rancor, are likely to bear fruit. Distinguishing between people like Finkelstein and Dershowitz seems like a no-brainer as well.

catalan
April 28, 2015, 10:07 am

“The Holocaust deaths — well the Jewish ones — are then raised above the other 70 million or so deaths”. – Giles
The killing of Jews, gypsies, homosexuals, and the mentally ill in Europe was unique in that it was detached from any political or military considerations. It was racial. It didn’t matter if you were a catholic nun with Jewish roots like Edith Stein or a child in Ivanhorod (check out the second picture here (link to en.m.wikipedia.org). Hungarian Jews were gassed in June of 1944, actually diverting resources from the war. Hitler himself in his last testament expressed his pride at ridding the world if Jews, despite causing such harm to his own country.
As to oppression, my own grandfather in Bulgaria was an attorney, he was prohibited from practicing law and instead sent to build railway tracks. Thankfully the guards were humane to the recruits, otherwise he wouldn’t have made it, he was smart but physically frail.

Mayhem
April 28, 2015, 9:40 am

@blah chick, from what do the Gazans have to defend themselves? Don’t they realise that Israel would leave them alone if they hadn’t been lobbing thousands of rockets into Israel with the purpose of killing as many innocent Israeli civilians as possible.
Israel left Gaza unilaterally in 2006 and Hamas decided to turn Gaza into a launching platform for attacks against Israel instead of building a viable society there. Smuggling weapons into Gaza is hardly conducive to establishing any kind of a peace.
BTW, the true bully on the block is across the river in ISIS land. Hamas aspires to be like ISIS.

socialconscience
April 28, 2015, 9:38 am

mmm well maybe some of the brutal, indeed twisted actions of the IDF injuring, killing and imprisoning many innocent civilians (men, women and children) might well be for fun…

I mean what other reason does a bully have for inflicting pain onto others?

maybe a need to feel strong? a way to assert the power of life and death over fellow human beings?

or maybe and perhaps most obviously to exercise and promote one’s own military machine in order to demonstrate its prowess in subjugating millions of people. All the while grabbed and ‘settling’ stolen land illegally whilst stealing the natural resources from the indigenous

Take your blindfold of bias off Mayhem – Israel clearly benefits hugely in the billion dollar industry to buy and sell arms, munitions and IT systems

As for ‘Gazans’ that you so ignorantly generalise are trying ”to inflict upon Israel’ – well what do you expect an impoverished, corralled, occupied territory and its resistance to do when it is being actively genocided for decades….

just look at the disparity in deaths between the Palestinian and Israeli sides, the numbers speak for themselves

pabelmont
April 28, 2015, 9:27 am

I think someone may have a “therapy” idea here. Yes, a Zionist (and that includes almost any “liberal Zionist”) is a racial supremacist. Agreed.

But some of them may be accessible by appeals to their better angels, if only various fears for Jewish safety can be overcome and fears of Jewish-grotesqueness (that is, racism, KKK-ism, etc.) increased.

That’s, after all, the theory of beginning with I-feel-your-pain messages of, yes the holocaust was awful and we understand where your fears come from. We acknowledge that you and your feelings and fears are estimable and not to be derided.

But then you go on with saying that there will never be another holocaust, but Jews in America could easily lose their privileges if Jewish-Power (AIPAC) becomes perceived as a subversive movement to subject America to domination by Jews. The way to fight that perception is by a 1960’s civil rights effort (human rights effort) on behalf of Palestinians who want, after all, no more than what anybody wants, safety, decency, respect, dignity, a life. why should it be so important to American Jews to deny these things to Palestinians?

Etc. therapy model. BTW, what are the Open Hillel folks saying, the ones who are not yet “on board” with BDS?

socialconscience
April 28, 2015, 9:19 am

excellent compilation of the facts by Yousef

interesting analysis by Krauss and Mooser

observing operation protective edge watching mainstream Television and Internet coverage in the mainstream media the words Zionism, Apartheid, state sponsored terrorism were to my recollection not even mentioned, certainly not given any substantial attention.

Observing the differences between S.A. apartheid and Israel indeed demonstrates and appalling disparity between willingness to accept the genocide for what it is

– take public apathy add a corrupt (western world) political system,
– multiply that by flimsy at best journalism (?also corrupt and biased)
– and here we have the world’s only invisible multi billion dollar apartheid industry

where human lives and liberties are illegally traded for land, arms deals and cold hard money

thanks be to goodness for independent journalism such as mondoweiss

talknic
April 28, 2015, 9:09 am

Mayhem ” .. the Nazis in their negotiations with al-Husseini”

Alleged negotiations…

“Note that in law a crime intended and foiled is nevertheless a punishable crime”

Interesting theory. Say, why wasn’t al-Husseini punished.

So a crime actually committed is most certainly punishable ! UNSC res 252 (1968) of 21 May 1968, UNSC res 267 (1969) of 3 July 1969, UNSC res 271 (1969) of 15 September 1969, UNSC res 298 (1971) of 25 September 1971, UNSC res 446 (1979) of 22 March 1979, UNSC res 452 (1979) 20 July 1979, 465 (1980) of 1 March 1980, UNSC res476 June 30 1980 , UNSC res 478 August 20 1980. Oh … and UNSC Res 497

Mayhem
April 28, 2015, 9:07 am

The US Senate Finance Committee has unanimously voted in favor of an amendment to discourage European participation in the boycott, divestment and sanctions movement against Israel.
“The amendment, which was tacked onto a larger piece of trade legislation that establishes Congressional trade objectives, is intended to apply specifically to an emerging free trade agreement between the U.S. and Europe.
“While the language of the amendment does not directly specify punitive action toward countries that boycott Israel, the implication is that U.S.-E.U. free trade relations are conditional upon European countries abstaining from the BDS movement.
“The senate committee’s amendment specifically targets an E.U. decision to cut economic support for Israeli settlements. In 2013, the European body submitted policy guidelines that required any Israeli entity seeking economic cooperation or funding from the E.U. to file a declaration asserting it is not linked to the West Bank, East Jerusalem or the Golan Heights.
“The American Israel Public Affairs Committee has been working with members of Congress since at least last year to draft legislation that would discourage Europe from continuing these policies. Sen. Ben Cardin (D-Md.), the author of the amendment, first offered the anti-BDS language as a separate bill, which he announced at AIPAC’s annual policy conference in March.
“When you have a boycott, divestment and sanctions movement, you’re discriminating against Israel,” Cardin told a packed auditorium at the pro-Israel gathering. “And the United States should take a stance to make sure other countries that want trade agreements with the United States do not participate in BDS against Israel.”
On Wednesday, several lawmakers described E.U. policy as the latest form of discrimination against Israel. “From the time it was founded, Israel has been the target of a lot of attacks,” said Sen. Rob Portman (R-Ohio), a co-sponsor of Cardin’s original bill. “From military or terrorist groups, but now there’s also this other attack. And in a way it’s more pernicious because it is economic warfare.”
Before casting his vote, Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.) said it was “appalling” that E.U. members boycott Israel but not other countries in the region with poor human rights records. “They just pick out Israel. Even though Israel is a democracy and has far greater provisions for human rights and protections of all people than any of the surrounding countries do,” he said.
“Sen. Ron Wyden (D-Ore.) described the European policy as anti-Semitic. “As the son of parents who fled Nazi Germany in the ’30s, I have been troubled by the rise of anti-Semitism in Europe and around the world,” he said. “We shouldn’t let American trade policy be used in any kind of fashion that would in some ways show a tolerance for that kind of anti-Semitism.”

traintosiberia
April 28, 2015, 9:04 am

This is one of the great achievement of the Zionist . Much more than manipulating ,it actually creates data and suppresses data to suit its interest particularly in creating the impression that there are.,there has been and will likely continue to be so same : the massive bipartisan grassroot support for Zionism ( Israel) transcending color,religion,ethnicity,and geography ,
Americans by big margin support negotiations with Iran. The American actually never disliked the idea of reaching to any foe . Even the idea of attacking Iraq was not high until mid 2002 . Then the game of shaping the argument and increasing the support for war started
Today Iran shows same trajectory
. link to quinnipiac.edu Despite the support their are undercurrents of the activities to torpedo the negotiation and attack Iran.
In 2007 AIPAC delegates were salivating at the prospect of a war against Iran: ” We wil do to Iran what we did to Saddam ” ( Salon.com)
That was th time Netanyahu,Levy,and American lawmakers openly were discussing in the same AIPAC summit of the me hanism that were being brought in place to squeeze Iran through financial sanction and divestment.
By 2007 Americans were regretting of going to Iraq. It didn’t bother the Zionist and didn’t evoke a reaction from the media that a replay was in the offing .