100 Most Recent Comments
“But they don’t. Start schtupping, or go out converting, or if you can find the time, do both. ”
I think he’s too busy reaching out.
“ If Jews represented 1.5 billion people and 57 countries at the United Nations, rather 15 million people and 1 country,”
But they don’t. Start schtupping, or go out converting, or if you can find the time, do both.
Or you could just go around saying that 15 million Jews is the equivalent of 1.5 billion ordinary people. That’ll work.
Blich is not representative of Israel – the “spoiled children” of the general Tel-Aviv metropolitan area are more cosmopolitan than most and at every junction of difficulty in the history of the country think of going abroad. I am sure you know that most people of the earlies `Aliyah`s to Israel left it. It is not so much the terror now – that is rather an excuse – but a general sense of being in a country that is alien to its environment and knowing that this will never change in any fundamental way (some “peace agreements” notwithstanding). I agree that it is indeed depressing – all the more so given that how the increasing turmoil in the region around. Whence, if you can afford it and have the qualifications to move smoothly to Europe, or likewise immigrate to the US or Canada, then why not?
What happens though is that many of those that actually go in the end return. Because Europe is not what you think it is – and now also not so safe – and when abroad you acquire a different perspective.
Shangri-La don`t accept immigrants anymore and even if it did – it turns out that some level of difficulties, in both the personal and societal realm, is the “spice” of life in how it drives you to make an effort and overcome them.
Shmuely Boteach, is a low level idiot, who hangs out with some higher level idiots. To equate him with Goebbels in this age of the 24 hour cycle and Fox news and decades after the selling of the president and millions of words and images under the bridge, is a sign that Siegman has lost the controls that older people lose at some point. It’s not senility exactly but it’s a sign that he’s lost it. I assume he is not married and his kids are embarrassed by him. He looks like a senile idiot.
“I asked them for water, They gave me some wine. First we drank down their bottle, and then we broke into mine.”
I gotta say, that sounds like a much better time than the incident on Hwy. 61. we were discussing the other day.
i think you are giving to much credit to Trump. yeah when it comes to amassing large sums of money he’s in his element but where politics is concern he’s dumb. he’s not able to master the art of lying like most politicians.
i see people comparing him to hitler or mussolini but i see him more as a Henry Ford.
maybe the media is giving Trump enough rope to hang himself and then we will have our
“Henry Ford v’s Chicago Tribune” day.
“The zelig is destroyed by what made him.”
Are you thinking, perhaps, of a golem? Or possibly a dybbuk?
A zelig is a “zero”. That is, the little guy who nobody really noticed, but who turns out to be significant.
“It’s nice to see you actually present a counter argument. However, you haven’t actually shown a fault with the logic. Rather, you are attacking my first premise”
Your assumption is wrong, so your argument is irrelevant.
“If it is true, is it still anti-Semitic? And if it is both true and anti-Semitic, does that mean that some truths should be suppressed?”
It isn’t true, remotely. The United States is a country of 320,000,000 people. Around 5-6 million are Jews. When the United States chose to go to war with Iraq, the President was a Protestant and so was the Vice-President and Secretary of Defense. It is illogical to suggest that Jews were the ones who caused the war to take place, as Phil has done repeatedly. It’s antisemitic because it asserts both that Jews act collectively as a fifth column to undermine the United States, which is, of course, untrue.
Same answer. It’s untrue, and frankly, the vast majority of rational people don’t need to go through this game to understand that.
“But we are supposed to pretend there are 1.5 billion Jews and 15 million Muslims? Why would anybody do that?”
Is it too challenging for you, Mooser? I think it’s a fairly simple thought experiment. If Jews represented 1.5 billion people and 57 countries at the United Nations, rather 15 million people and 1 country, I don’t think that there would be an international campaign to target Israel.
If you’ve noticed, the USA has these periodic bouts of mass-persecution of its own internal others. I don’t know what good it can do depoliticizing and de-racializing these periodical paranoid US attacks on its own.
@ “[her] concerns are entirely for her homeland”.
Well there. You see! “For her homeland”! There. It’s all part of the same paranoia. If there’s a “homeland” at the forefront then you can be sure there some foreignness lurking at the shadows. There’s sure to be some Un-American Activities, somewhere. I mean if the US is someone’s “homeland,” then whose homeland is it not (among citizens, residents or immigrants or whatnot)? Do you go around pointing out the “contributions” you collectively make? Do you don a peace sign to work, even as a joke MHughes?
@ “I think that this is a perfectly acceptable and dignified position”.
Dignified, my segregated behind. To me it sounds like a job for either young liberals-in-the-making, victims, or allrightniks.
Here come the antisemites! Thanks, Father Phil.
“I’ve heard about the Israeli movers’ story down through the years and never been very interested in it, it’s in s being in a gray zone of unproveable assertions”.
PW’s liberal Zionism is showing. He wants to protect Israel
The truth of the story of the Israeli “art students and movers” is not in doubt in anyway.
And it is very important and very interesting that some part of the Israeli government knew that 911 was coming (at a minimum they knew this — who knows if their involvement went deeper).
Ms. Balkar seems to identify herself as an American of liberal mind whose political concerns are entirely for her homeland. where she wishes to play a constructive role, for instance by raising money to fight cancer. Islam is her religion but she does not call for political, rather than religious, solidarity with followers of Islam worldwide nor call on Trump to give some thought to the injustices that they suffer, rather to the substantial contributions that Americans who happen to be Muslims make. I think that this is a perfectly acceptable and dignified position: not everyone can fight every battle and if I were to call on her to offer specific support to the Palestinian cause I would not ask this in the name of her religion but on the same grounds as I might make the same request to other Christians or to unbelievers.
I disagree with you strongly. The entire American state is a 500 year old occupation of Native American land, and black American bodies. Before USA, the land was already occupied by various nations who peacefully coexisted with the land and their neighbours, such as the Navajo nation, the Squaw nation etc. The white pilgrims were terrorists who stole the land by force and deceit and to this day guarding their unjust loot through massive amount of state violence. The Hawaiian islands have been illegally occupied, against the wishes of the native population, for 100 years by the same white thieves. For the POC and indigenous folks and also the historically conscious European Americans, white supremacy and Zionism have little differences in theory or practice, both are as evil and intellectually deficient as each other.
Please note when I say white, I dont mean collectively all European Americans, just the ones who proscribes whether consciously or subconsciously to white supremacism and manifest destiny.
If you disagree with me, then too bad because every college in America supports the same view as mine. However you are of course free to think that you know better than the hundreds of pHD scholars and professors who have dedicated their entire lives in the subject.
@ Yoni Falic. Thanks for another of your informed and informative posts. I have one comment regarding your observation, “White Christians that support the invaders are either racist, unbelievably stupid, or utter morons.”
Yes, it is true that there are some of those. They may matter at the margins, due to their numbers, but of more significance are those, found especially among the political class and the media elite, who cynically pursue what they judge to be their own best interests, without regard to truth, justice, or morality.
I am sure that all concerned would be happy to say that they have no dual loyalties: what they have for Israel is not loyalty but love.
|| MaxNarr: To bad they stabbed a Palestinian they mistook for a Jew. … ||
So…you wish they had stabbed an actual Jewish person instead? Why do you hate Jews so much?!
“it only reflects the larger brutal shallowness of the whole discourse, and the apparent inability to escape from this brutal shallowness. It is mindboggling, the legalization of racial discrimination against Muslims in the US can be discussed at the highest levels..”
This discourse that’s been going on since 1948? Agree.
@ a4tech “The US is every bit as bad as Israel with regards to oppressing its minority population and have been doing so with impunity ever since it was founded”
A) Occupied Palestinians are NOT an Israeli minority.
B) The US is NOT occupying any of its minority populations.
C) The US doesn’t refuse entry of US citizens into the US, whereas Israel refuses to allow its own dispossessed non-Jewish Israeli citizens return to their state.
D) Except where a foreigner has a criminal record, the US does not prevent minorities from marrying foreigners and co-inhabiting in the US.
E) The US does not prevent its minority citizens from exiting and reentering the US.
F) G) H) I) J) K) etc etc etc etc
“Only now, with the advent of social media, the internet, rising political consciousness among the marginalized and also the changing demographics, things are beginning to change, albeit slowly and with the ever present risk of total collapse of civil society”
A) The Civil Rights movement was pre social media/internet. B) The US is changing for the better. Israel is not. It’s getting worse. C) The US is has no ‘ever present risk of total collapse of civil society’ that I can identify. D) Any country that treats those it occupies as Israel does is not a civil society
“And even then, the changes are no way iniated by the government nor the ruling class but are being forced by the oppressed group themselves, mainly the blacks and POC, after suffering from centuries old violence from the state they pledge allegiance to”
Occupied Palestinians have NOT pledged allegiance to Israel.
“The tide is changing and soon the oppressors and the people complicit in their actions will face their comeuppance,be that in the USA, Israel or anywhere else”
While the US maintains the UNSC veto vote on Chapt VII resolutions against Israeli intransigence the tide will remain out
Can of Worms, the social collapse risk is due to the change in power dynamics in the US and the prevalent dominant ideology of white supremacy. As POC becomes more and more empowered, there will always be a great risk that the white supremacist will violently react to the new status quo which goes against their idealisation of society. The FBI have already categorized white supremacists as the number 1 domestic threat to the nation, and even that was during the period where whites held overwhelming power over other groups. Given the prospect of their worldview permanently crushed, white supremacists will definitely try to maintain power through force and violence, leading to a breakdown of race relations and social cohesion and permanent restructuring of the nations demographics.
The comeuppance wont be any different from what the Zionists are experiencing in the Middle East right now, but for the white ruling class it will be global isolation of their ideology and culture. Basically they would be outcasts of the world they worked so hard to dominate and destroy. POC would want to have nothing to do with any of these, they have the bright future of their children to secure, after 500 years of suffering and mistreatment. The future is theirs, no sense in getting caught up in problems of white people they had no role in making.
Marnie… I may exaggerate. If some things she said gives one the shivers — (“you can see that I am not any less good than you are,” said the raven to the dove)— it only reflects the larger brutal shallowness of the whole discourse, and the apparent inability to escape from this brutal shallowness. It is mindboggling, the legalization of racial discrimination against Muslims in the US can be discussed at the highest levels and in response people are praised when they speak naively of coexistence and wear peace signs to show their enlightened, liberal, Values.
Israel is just opportunistic in creating mayhem.
Samer Abboud seems to gloss over some significant differences.
Al-Qaeda was initially closer to a radicalized segment (e.g. Kamal al-Sananiri and Ayman al-Zawahiri) of the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood that like the parent MB did not practice Takfirism.
The Saudi version of lukewarm takfiri Wahhabism focused mostly on pan-Islamic charities.
The Saudi pan-Islamic charities provided a home for many Islamist Egyptians (and also some Palestinians) of various ideological positions.
Al-Qaeda seems to be the first radicalized movement that grew out of this stew in reaction to Zionism, Western Support for Zionism, Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, and the first US invasion of Iraq. The Palestinian al-Qaeda leader Abdullah Azzam was hostile both to Hamas and to the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood but did not reject the ideas of either Hasan al-Banna or Sayid Qutb.
ISIS seems to be a reaction both to al-Qaeda and the 2nd US invasion of Iraq and the concomitant Sunni-Shii power struggle. For the Iraqi ISIS leadership an energized takfiri Wahhabism was much more attractive than the ideas of al-Banna or Qutb.
Initially ISIS had a Palestinian influence from West Banker Abu Muhammad al-Maqdisi (Aasim Muhammad Tahir al-Barqawi — salafi Palestinians seem to prefer the more traditional moniker Maqdisi to the more secular Falastini), who had distanced himself from MB thought and drawn closer to salafi wahabi thinking, but al-Maqdisi rejected the attacks on Shiites and has accused ISIS of deviance.
Thus, ISIS and al-Qaeda are hostile to each other, but both groups claim to represent Sunni pan-Islamic resistance to European and American interference in the Islamic world. Because of the takfiri anti-Shiite orientation of ISIS, ISIS is less focused than al-Qaeda on the racist genocidal European colonialism that Zionism represents and more interested in imposing its version of salafi takfiri wahhabi Sunni Islam in the heartland of the Muslim world.
To tell the truth, as native resistance movements to Euro-American colonialism and interference in the non-European world, neither ISIS not al-Qaeda are particularly exceptional in violence or in ideology.
Zionism is much more obviously evil and extreme as a recrudescence of a particularly perverted form of white racist 19th century style European genocidal colonialism.
Americans and Europeans are not thinking particularly clearly about the issues because both al-Qaeda and ISIS have brought their battles either to the USA or to Europe just as the Algerian FLN did in the late 50s, but the real solution is for the USA and Europe to get out of the ME remove the Zionists (as the International Law requires that the USA and Europe claim to hold dear), provide refuge to people displaced as a consequence of moronic Western policy, and let the peoples of the ME sort out their own problems without the interference of truly ignorant or very malicious Westerners (to wit, Zionists).
There are more than enough groups that could collaborate in Turkey, Iran, Saudia, Iraq, Syria, and Egypt to find stability once the racist European colonialists and their favored non-European ersatz native collaborators are removed from Palestine. The white racist European genocidal colonialists will resist, but the alternative just risks wider and wider war especially now that more European states and the Russian Federation are intervening in Syria.
The following article is interesting even if I do not agree with everything it says. Anyway, what do I know? I have only been able to read Arabic sufficiently well to have an idea what the real issues are for about two years.
Can you pls. elaborate on what you meant by marginalized groups manifesting the “ever present risk of total collapse of civil society”? Thnx.
And while you’re at it, can you please elaborate on your following breathtaking thought:
“soon the oppressors…will face their comeuppance, be that in the USA, Israel or anywhere else.” What “comeuppance” do you envision? Minorities serving at the helm of the state — does that figure as a “comeuppance”? Or do you expect retribution enacted by “the blacks and POC”? If so, what kind of retribution? Can you pls. clarify the specific forms that you foresee that this “comeuppance”, or retribution, of minorities will assume in Palestine/Israel, the USA , “or anywhere else,” respectively?
|| kalithea: …or in King’s (is that even a real name or just wishful thinking?*) case … ||
It must be wishful thinking because when it comes to “the Jewish people” there is only Bibi King.
(with sincerest apologies to Riley B.)
Pabelmont: It is not only “gay” people who are unwilling to be “outed.”
Very true. It has been true ever since Zionism acquired a dominant position in the Jewish community.
A late friend of mine in London told me that when he set up an anti-Zionist committee all the Jewish business contacts whom he approached were willing to give him money but on the strict condition that he would not “out” them. They were afraid of being boycotted and ruined.
When local Zionists were intriguing to get me fired from my university post I was greatly helped by closet anti-Zionist Jews who willingly kept me informed of what was afoot.
If all these people came out of the closet I suspect that might in itself suffice to tip the balance.
@ ivri “.. the immediate “pleasure” in the aftermath of a terror act – in seeing the pain of the victim`s relatives, the fear expressed by others from being stabbed etc. … It`s a tragic emotional trap and a vicious cycle that threatens the very fate of those who got addicted to it.
Oh. I get what you mean. Like the bombing of the King David hotel and armchair warriors watching the slaughter in Gaza?
“How do you arrest someone who is trying to stab you?”
Depends on how they are trying to stab. A downward swing or a straight thrust can be dealt with by kote gaeshi or go kyo. But there are other techniques for trickier ways of stabbing.
Google “you tube knife disarm” and you will see a long list of videos showing various methods from various martial arts. Systema, Ninjutsu, Gracie, Judo … Oh, look! Krav Maga knife disarms. Now where do they teach Krav Maga, again?
But, as MDM points out, if you don’t feel up to one of those techniques, you can shoot them in the leg, if you’ve got a gun. Israeli police have guns.
|| RoHa: Eljay, I’m a bit reluctant to speculate on what hophmi thinks, since he and I have contrary souls. (His soul comes from holiness, whereas mine is from the satanic spheres.) … ||
Given your respective records here at MW, I would never have guessed that the origins of you souls are as you describe them.
|| … there is no real hypocrisy. It just looks like it to us because our souls are satanic. (Yours more so than mine?) ||
Well…I do enjoy the Devil’s music.
I want you to hear me out there
This is for all you bad boys
This a story of the Satan rock ‘n’ roll
I want you to put your hand in your pocket
Take ten dollars out and send it to me
\m/ > , < \m/
|| ivri: … they still cannot resist the momentary relish and the sense of having an instant “upper hand” over the hated “big guy”. It`s a tragic emotional trap and a vicious cycle that threatens the very fate of those who got addicted to it. ||
Yup. The victim just loves that momentary relish. Mostly because it’s all she has, given that she remains chained, raped and otherwise brutalized in the rapist’s basement.
Why do you hate victims so much?
I suppose that Jews who resisted the Nazis also enjoyed some of that relish. Why do you hate Jews so much?
There is a difference between colonizer and colonized.
For the colonizer — the Zionist — the “relish” of destruction is indeed sadistic and banal, for the colonist derives (as you say) an “immediate ‘pleasure’”, an “imminent,” unrestrained “relish” in destroying the potentials of the colonized.
However, for the colonized, violent struggle is a political action. And “at the individual level, violence is a cleansing force, because it rids the colonized from an inferiority complex, from passivity and despair”—Fanon.
Dig it, Ivri? Don’t project your own ”imminent relish of problems” as a Zionist colonizer.
“How do you arrest someone who is trying to stab you? ”
If you’re an armed, supposedly highly trained (aren’t we always hearing that about Israeli ‘security’ forces?) policeman, and the would-be stabber is a teenage girl armed only with scissors, I would say you could arrest them quite easily. At the very worst, you could shoot them somewhere unlikely to cause lethal injuries, ie the foot or leg.
Amazing that Start Up Nation can’t figure out this sort of stuff.
And if you’re telling me that you belive this girl would have been shot dead had she been Jewish, then you’re lying.
@can of worms –
I liked her response to Mr. Amber Alert face, because it’s in such stark contrast to so many zionists attempting to drown out the interview of a fellow Jew, nonzionist, son of holocaust survivors, who was called a self-hating Jew and kapo (Video: ‘One Word’ ad campaign banned by Boston Metro — again – Mondoweiss). This woman didn’t sink to that level and she sure as hell could have. As far as the peace sign, that’s obviously her personal preference where I’d like “F%XK OFF” much better, but she has class and I could use some.
“It meant to refer to the immediate “pleasure” in the aftermath of a terror act – in seeing the pain of the victim`s relatives, the fear expressed by others from being stabbed etc.”
Ah, you mean like those guys and gals who took out the beer and popcorn and sat on sofas on top of a hill whooping and hollering as bombs incinerated entire families in Gaza?
Thanks for clearing that up.
The list of cultural Zionists is just wrong. Arendt was a Zionist because she needed a job. Zionists and anti-Zionists both try to claim Einstein. I googled Chomsky and “cultural Zionism”. I found this article on Mondoweiss.
Michael Berkowitz discusses the conflict between cultural Zionism and political Zionism. To me it seems like a minor dispute about the direction of Jewish education.
The YIVO article on Weizmann is telling on the insignificance of the dispute between cultural and political Zionists.
Initially he was a practical and cultural Zionist. After 1917 he was a political Zionist. The article fails to mention that by the 40s when the white racist invaders became strong enough to destroy or to expel the natives, Weizmann had no problem with that agenda.
Ahad Ha’am followed the same development in his approach although he died in 1927. After 1917 . For the most part, when he lived in Palestine, he worked for Weizmann, who had already become a political Zionist.
Ahad Ha’am’s understanding of Jewish history was completely broken, and his concerns about the natives were purely tactical. Ahad Ha-Am failed to reject Zionism as white racist genocidal European colonialism.
Ahad Ha-Am had made the case that the brutal treatment of Arabs as meted out by some Jews could, if not stopped, ruin the prospects of Zionism and rob it of its moral standing and legitimacy.
As the white racist colony became stronger, Ahad Ha-Am became less concerned. Among the “Cultural Zionists” concern about the natives was confined to a small group, none of whom believed the natives were equal to white Europeans or had a right of democratic self-determination except perhaps Judah Magnes.
Really there is only one conclusion. All forms of Zionism are evil and just represent an attempt to legitimize one of the most vile and disgusting forms of white racist genocidal colonialism, in which white racist European invaders destroy of expel the natives in order to move in more white racist invaders along with favored non-Europeans, who can serve as ersatz native collaborators.
In this case of this instance of genocidal European colonialism, the native Palestinians represented a direct link to Greco-Roman Judean antiquity both in their colloquial Arabic, which was relexified Judean Hebrew Aramaic and in their culture which preserved much of late Greco-Roman Judean customs and practices. For destroying this treasure trove of potential knowledge about antiquity, the white racist invaders including my family deserve to be hated at least for the next millennium. White Christians that support the invaders are either racist, unbelievably stupid, or utter morons.
there is definitely a lot of silence and adherence, what Jim Morrison called adherence to a vegetable law in “American Dream” (The Doors). I am asked to be silent so I do not ruin family events. But I assure you everyone thinks it is f%^ strange that so and so (My 22 year old relative from guess where New York…. is joining the IDF. My mom is like, is she a psycho or something? My mom says “Why would anyone join any army anywhere.” I said, good point, Mom. I hope it doesn’t turn as it should, with this fool joining the IDF learning the hard way what any Vietnam vet can tell u, about war, and Duplicity, and nationalism. But will her parents toss her out of the family and the Will and tell her never to return home again and to not speak to the children???? I would, but they won’t. Maybe her mom will be the first one on her block to have her kid come home from Isreal in a box* (IT happened last week in Sharon , MA) I don’t really care either way, box or no box, she should do something that a normal well off 22 year old should do, like get a masters degree in some uesless profession. Go to mars and grow vegetables or something, as Woodly allen said.
There was no hesitation at all excommunicating the leader of the Warsaw ghetto insurrection, Dr. Marek Edelman, or any number of antizionists, resistants or rescued from the camps, either. Zionism is a church. As an ideology it differs from its twin Nazism only in some points of detail related to the availability of blood and ground.
My family is very Jewish. We have no and never did have any loyalty whatsoever to Isreal. We are European. Understand????? What are u even talking about? What kind of loyalty? Are you from the former Soviet Union, you speak in a weird way. Like someone from eastern Europe? I don’t know, as a Jew I was encouraged to go to Senegal to do the Peace Corps with….gasp….Muslims…If u can believe it. And every day was like any other day that’s ever been. I asked them for water, They gave me some wine. First we drank down their bottle, and then we broke into mine.
Its much worse than even that. Trust me. The young-uns wont take this from these old geezers. day by day, they are evaporating. Adelson is still funding Cruz? This alone shows that these Zio wackjobs are not very smart, at all!!! Don’t worry, they are NOT! For what and why? Cruz? Jeb?! Hillary also is a waste, but…… Adelson could just as simply burn the $, but maybe it will give someone at some TV station a job airing his moronic useless commercials. lets see if Massachusetts/NY/CA/MI/OR/WA/PA votes for ted Cruz….Not….Did the letters FBI scare off the anonymous isreali cyber troll? DDOS attacks, not much good that will do these isreali trolls, the worst part is the most anti person on here at three AM is me, and i a m Jewish. What a nightmare for them I aim to become. I assure you, me and my dead father will put and end to this insanity, forced upon us upstanding american Hippies, Phisheads and assorted aliens by these isrealis and their american traitors (my neighbors and relatives).. See u there soon.
yes it is also now.
Look look, now comes the “Muslim” propaganda hack trying to put some cyanide in the soup.
Look it up, Buster.
kalithea, Trump IS a Zionist.
@ Dabakr “there are many other places on earth where “teenagers” and other peoples lives are incredibly miserable, hopeless, empty, dangerous …”
Many of them under occupation their entire lives?
“So-wether you agree with the tactic of blowing oneself up in a crowd of civilians…”
Mohammed Zaidan refused. His target was military.
Simply put, Palestinians are damned if they do, damned if they don’t.
There was no hesitation whatsoever in branding Israel Shahak a “self-hating Jew”.
She obviously ‘means well’ and there wouldn’t have been a need to say anything about it if it weren’t for the comment that it was just so “wonderful”. Why are liberals so pleased that she “chose the peace sign because it represents” her group?
Looking at your list of “Israeli victims” I see mostly Zionist invaders who don’t live within “Israel” even as internationally recognized. They all seem to be illegal plants in non-Israel territory as internationally recognized, mainly soldiery and so-called settlers. Only 2-3 look like bona fide Israel citizens (even according to colonialist consensus.)
@“That’s wonderful…thanks for sharing”
It’s not wonderful, snap out of it. Of course she’s getting hundreds of thousands of support letters, she basically differentiated “Good Muslims” from “Bad Muslims”. She drew the line b/w civilized and domesticated American Muslims from the “Islamicist” “swart gevaar” in the “backward regions” of the world. And she did not forget to provide a self photo against the backdrop-image of a mythical American middle class apple pie home with green lawn, donning a peace sign and invoking the grotesque! Fight with peace and appeal to the authority of middle class ‘American’ morality. You gotta be kidding.
From Ketcham’s summary —
The reputable Israeli daily Ha’aretz reported that by the last week of October 2001, some six weeks after the men had been detained, Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage and two unidentified “prominent New York congressmen” were lobbying heavily for their release. According to a source at ABC News close to the 20/20 report, high-profile criminal lawyer Alan Dershowitz also stepped in as a negotiator on behalf of the men to smooth out differences with the U.S. government.
link to informationclearinghouse.info
The merchants of death stand to profit even from turkey Russia tension as they stand ready to take the place of Turks in trade with Russia by shipping fresh produce in place of turkey. Aren’t they good indispensable US allies?
That’s wonderful, Marnie. Thanks for sharing.
Take a look at the IMEMC casualty lists that come out every couple of days. They list Israeli casualties as well as Palestinian ones. You haven’t scrolled down far enough. Of course the Israeli deaths are reported in the mainstream media, also.
Names Of The 101 Palestinians [and 17 Israelis] Killed By Israeli Fire Since October 1st
link to imemc.org
Names of known Israeli casualties during the same time period:
1 & 2. 10/1 – Eitam and Na’ama Henkin, both aged around 30 years old, killed in drive-by shooting near Itamar settlement.
3. 10/3 – Nahmia Lavi, 41 – Rabbi for Israeli military. Killed in Jerusalem stabbing attack near Lion’s Gate when he tried to shoot the attacker but had his weapon taken.
4. 10/3 – Aaron Bennet, 24. Killed in Jerusalem stabbing attack near Lion’s Gate.
5. 10/13 – Yeshayahu Kirshavski, 60, bus shooting in East Jerusalem
6. 10/13 – Haviv Haim, 78, bus shooting in East Jerusalem
7. 10/13 – Richard Lakin, 76, bus shooting in East Jerusalem (died of wounds several days after the attack)
8. 10/18 – Omri Levy, 19, Israeli soldier with the Golani Brigade, had his weapon grabbed and turned against him by an Israeli resident.
9. 11/13 – Rabbi Yaakov Litman, killed in shooting attack on car south of Hebron.
10. 11/13 – Litman’s son Netanel, 19, killed in shooting attack on car south of Hebron.
11. 11/19 – Reuven Aviram, 51, killed in stabbing attack in Tel Aviv.
12. 11/19 – Rabbi Aharon Yesayev, 32 killed in stabbing attack in Tel Aviv.
13. 11/19 – Yaakov Don, 49, killed in shooting attack near the settlement of Alon Shvut.
14. 11/19 – Ezra Schwartz, 18, a U.S. national, killed in shooting attack near the settlement of Alon Shvut.
15. 11/19 – Shadi Arafa, 24, of Hebron, killed in shooting attack near the settlement of Alon Shvut.
16. 11/23 Hadar Buchris, 21, killed in stabbing attack near Gush Etzion settlement
17. 11/23 Ziv Mizrahi, 18, Soldier. Killed at gas station near illegal West Bank settlement.
An additional 2 Israelis that were initially claimed to have been killed in attacks were actually killed in car accidents.
Actually, I’m really a Dickinson! Well, sort of.
DICKINSON > DICKENSON > DICKERSON
1. RICHARD DICKINSON was born 1564 in London, England.
2. JOHN DICKINSON (RICHARD1) was born January 1592/93 in London, England.
3. GRIFFITH DICKINSON (JOHN2, RICHARD1) was born 1629 in London, England, and died Abt. 1687 in New Kent Co, Virginia.
4. WILLIAM DICKENSON (GRIFFITH3 DICKINSON, JOHN2, RICHARD1) was born 1652 in Charles City Co. Virginia, and died 1734 in King William Co..
5. NATHANIEL DICKENSON (WILLIAM4, GRIFFITH3 DICKINSON, JOHN2, RICHARD1) was born Abt. 1678 in Virginia, and died 1738 in New Kent Co, Virginia.
6. GRIFFITH DICKENSON (NATHANIEL5, WILLIAM4, GRIFFITH3 DICKINSON, JOHN2, RICHARD1) was born 1713 in Virginia, and died December 12, 1785.
7. ROBERT DICKERSON (GRIFFITH6 DICKENSON, NATHANIEL5, WILLIAM4, GRIFFITH3 DICKINSON, JOHN2, RICHARD1) was born 1737 in Hanover County Va, and died 1819 in Louisa Co. Va.
Those happy Israelis didn’t pass the polygraphs. So months before 9/11 a wide-spread Israeli spy ring was conducting espionage operations in the U.S. and they didn’t know 9/11 was going to happen.
So these Israeli movers were there to record something they didn’t know anything about. And they were smiling and hi-fiving each other over a tragedy they supposedly didn’t know was going to happen. And they didn’t know it was going to happen, why? If it was because they didn’t think those Saudis could pull it off, they sure were a little too excited with the outcome!
If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck…it sure isn’t the hippo they pretend our lying eyes see.
So the ADL rushed in to condemn Trump, but maybe Trump was just baiting and predictably they took the bait (methinks they doth protest too much over supposed Arabs celebrating an American tragedy.) So for now, maybe Trump stated Arabs were celebrating 9/11 just to see how skittish Zionists might get that he dared to bring this topic up and test how far AIPAC might jump.
I kinda wish Trump could take this torment a little further with Zionist nervous nellies by threatening to take a peek inside the classified Pandora’s box, I mean banker’s box…marked Israel: Top Secret.
Interesting. Thanks for the report, and thanks for stating important truth once again about the special status of Israel in U.S. politics and media, which leads us (contrary to our own interests, as well as moral principles) to support the continuing oppression of the Palestinians.
From the comments on British and Australian newspaper sites, it seems to me that the demonization of Russia isn’t working too well. I see a lot of comments supporting the Russians and admiring Putin. Muslims and Islam do, though, get plenty of critical comments. Sometimes nearly as many as our Prime Ministers.
The comments sections of Washington Post on-line articles about the shootdown of the Russian bomber are full of people accusing anyone saying anything good about Russia or casting doubt on the Turkish version of events of being a Russian-planted troll. These people have nothing good to say about Russia and seem still to be living in the Cold War.
Their comments are so stupid as to create suspicion that they are themselves plants, either members of military psyops units or people hired by defense contractors.
If they are, that could support the view of people like Paul Craig Roberts that the Turkish shootdown was inspired by neocons in the U.S. government, or possibly by the whole U.S. government.
So if information gathered on the Israeli spy ring is classified; then if Trump becomes President he can threaten to declassify the results of the FBIs investigation if AIPAC doesn’t back him up. If anyone knows how powerful Zionists are and can air some of their dirty laundry it would be Trump since in his business and social circles he must bump into powerful Zionists all the time.
Eljay, I’m a bit reluctant to speculate on what hophmi thinks, since he and I have contrary souls. (His soul comes from holiness, whereas mine is from the satanic spheres.)
However, it seems to me that he holds that there is a standard of just and moral behaviour for all people to adhere to, and that exception clauses for Jews are built in to the standard. Also, a major part of the standard is the “no-one shall crticize Jews or anything remotely connected with Jews under any circumstances whatsoever” clause.
So there is no real hypocrisy. It just looks like it to us because our souls are satanic. (Yours more so than mine?)
US has allowed Israel to take what it needs from US military supply dumps in Israel–to replenish what it used up on the inmates of Gaza.
Just look at the pic provided atop this article–close enough.
If you really want to be frightened, look at the tracks laid down inside US foreign policy by Douglas Feith. Oddly, he looks IMHO, just like what he is.
Careful, official white supremacist sites incessantly talk about “ZOG.”
The zelig is destroyed by what made him.
ALSO SEE: “Were Israelis Detained on Sept. 11 Spies?”, abcnews.go.com
[EXCERPTS] . . . Despite the denials, sources tell ABCNEWS there is still debate within the FBI over whether or not the young men were spies. Many U.S. government officials still believe that some of them were on a mission for Israeli intelligence. But the FBI told ABCNEWS, “To date, this investigation has not identified anybody who in this country had pre-knowledge of the events of 9/11.”
Sources also said that even if the men were spies, there is no evidence to conclude they had advance knowledge of the terrorist attacks on Sept. 11. The investigation, at the end of the day, after all the polygraphs, all of the field work, all the cross-checking, the intelligence work, concluded that they probably did not have advance knowledge of 9/11,” Cannistraro noted.
As to what they were doing on the van, they say they read about the attack on the Internet, couldn’t see it from their offices and went to the parking lot for a better view. But no one has been able to find a good explanation for why they may have been smiling with the towers of the World Trade Center burning in the background. Both the lawyers for the young men and the Israeli Embassy chalk it up to immature conduct. . .
ENTIRE ARTICLE – link to abcnews.go.com
@ “I’ve…never been very interested in it, it’s being in a gray zone of unproveable assertions”
Oh, don’t worry and be happy: whatever you assumed happened on that day was already founded on a sealike ‘gray zone of unproveable assertions’.
Nothing like gray zones of unproveable assertions and muddy black zones of censorships, redactions, silences, and unfalsifiable claims, where the imperial subject can suddenly lose memory, fall into a momentary irresolution, and cross on to the other boat!
As for my own part I don’t find that the ‘gray zone’ of the Dancing Israelis is particularly gray, or particularly uninteresting.
And New Hampshire licence plates say LIVE FREE OR DIE.
Interesting to compare Trump, now, to Obama, now. Neither, it seems, needs AIPAC money for personal elective purposes. But Obama acts as if he needs it. Is this because he will not cut loose from the other Dems and wants them (Hillary) to be elected? Is it to secure post-2017 speaking gigs? Money for presidential library? Strange.
See what happens when you skate from memory? Page numbers wrong and mixing up the ref books
Re: your . . . .
Skimming through Hitler’s Second Book, I cannot find the passage about Zyklon B and Mexicans, not even in the discussion of Jews at the end of Chapter 16. I did several word searches, but they produced no relevant hits.
Unless I can be directed to the passage in question, I will assume that the presence of such a statement in the Second Book is a myth.
By the way, the Second Book was written in 1928, not 1924.
I had to wait until I got home.
The reference was in Ringside Seat to a Revolution, An Underground Cultural History Of El Paso And Juárez: 1893-1923 by David Dorado Romo, Cinco Puntos Press, El Paso, Texas, Pgs 240-243.
Adolph Hitler, praising the U.S. Immigration Act of 1924 in Gerhard Weinberg’s edition of Hitler’s Second Book: The Unpublished Sequel To Mein Kampf By Adolph Hitler, (New York: Enigma Books, 203) p.109
Pages 241 and 242 of Romo’s book show photographic copies—and several photographs–of Dr. Gerhard Peters’ 1937 article for a German pest science journal, Anzeiger für Schädlinskunde that included two photos of the El Paso delousing chambers, praising them as showing how effective Zyklon B was for killing unwanted pests. Also included is an illustration of how the El Paso fumigation tunnel system using Zyklon B works for train cargo. Page 242 shows a 1939 ad, based on Dr. Peters’ work, for creating “Disinfection Camps” at every border that reads in all caps, “WE ARE CLOSING THE BORDERS TO THE IMMIGRATION OF HARMFUL PESTS,” and how the penetration of Zyklon B “penetrates through the entire freight train quickly.”
There are a lot more references, but if you’re truly interested, you can order the book yourself. ;-)
How many Israelis were killed, maimed by Palestinians in same period?
@Maximus “Imminent relish of problems”
OK, that`s indeed not standard English – thanks for the correction – but then also that`s what fast blogging is about. It meant to refer to the immediate “pleasure” in the aftermath of a terror act – in seeing the pain of the victim`s relatives, the fear expressed by others from being stabbed etc. It is however a short-sighted attitude and a loser in the longer term and in more than one way. Those who do that know it – after all how can the stabbing of some people make any tangible effect on a country or a population of millions – but they still cannot resist the momentary relish and the sense of having an instant “upper hand” over the hated “big guy”. It`s a tragic emotional trap and a vicious cycle that threatens the very fate of those who got addicted to it.
P.S. In the event the woman in New Jersey who said she felt her apartment shake/vibrate actually was feeling the impact of the second plane crash into the Twin Towers (and somehow missed feeling the impact of the first plane), that would give the Urban Moving guys about 17 minutes* from the first impact to have heard about the first plane hitting the Twin Towers, travel to Liberty State Park and get set up before the second plane hit.
* FROM WIKIPEDIA (Timeline for the day of the September 11 attacks):
• 8:46:30: Flight 11 crashes at roughly 466 mph (790 km/h or 219m/s or 425 knots) into the north face of the North Tower (1 WTC) of the World Trade Center, between floors 93 and 99. (Many early accounts gave times between 8:45 and 8:50.)
• 9:03:02: Flight 175 crashes at about 590 mph (950 km/h, 264 m/s or 513 knots) into the south face of the South Tower (2 WTC) of the World Trade Center, between floors 77 and 85.
So Bush invaded iraq in support of his close allies in Iran (Shia) and Hussein (Sunni) was allied to the Sunni Kings (especially those of Kuwait and Saudi) by the bond of Sunnism?
Is Israel supporting Wahhabism in Saudi Arabia as a straw dog, in order to continue with its extreme strategies?
RE: “I’ve heard about the Israeli movers’ story down through the years and never been very interested in it, it’s in s being in a gray zone of unproveable assertions.”
MY COMMENT: If memory serves me correctly, a woman in New Jersey said she felt her apartment shake and she looked out the window to see what was going on. She saw these guys on the top of their Urban Moving van (in Liberty State Park) celebrating and videotaping in the direction of the twin towers across the bay.
AS I RECALL IT, according to her, the shake/vibration she felt was from the first plane hitting the twin towers, and she immediately went to her window , so the guys with Urban Moving were apparently waiting (ready to film/videotape) for the first plane to hit.
So, the question is not about a “conspiracy”, but is about whether the Israelis were surveilling the terrorists (mostly Saudis) who carried out the 9/11 attacks, and how much they knew about what the (mostly Saudi) terrorists were up to.
Personally, I have no way of knowing. It is possible that any Mossad agents or other Israeli spies who were in the U.S. (whether working at Urban Movers in NJ or working/living elsewhere) had no advance knowledge of 9/11, and were instead involved in unrelated, mundane activities. I simply do not know.
■ The Five Dancing Israelis – 9/11/2001 – “Our Purpose Was To Document The Event”
David, how do you think his daughter’s orthodox Jewish religion (adopted) figures into this? Ironic that it was her husband who fired Phil from The New York Observer for not being Zionist enough. Her husband applied to Harvard and couldn’t get in because he wasn’t smart enough, until Daddy made a donation . . . that was before Daddy went to jail for four years.
I ask again, is Trump mis-remembering? or is he goading AIPAC and Sheldon Adelson, who are not supporting his campaign. He also derided his opponent Marco Rubio about Sheldon Adelson grooming him to be a perfect little puppet. He knows about buying politicians. He knows about media. He knows about power and negotiations. He knows finance. He doesn’t need AIPAC’s money, but, if he’s going to win and govern, he will need to have a working relationship with such a media and political power base, which so far is not on his side.
By launching this issue in the wake of the Paris attacks, he may just be another stupid, anti-Muslim racist, or, he may be a very savvy right-wing politician, focused like a laser on winning and then effectively wielding power, showing through indirection that Israel has a lot to lose by alienating a guy like him. It’s like an astute move in chess, opening up multiple lines of attack with a single move. He’s feeding the right-wing mob raw, anti-Muslim, anti-immigrant red meat, while subtly warning Netanyahu through AIPAC not to get in his way, not to dismiss him, not to oppose him, not to think that he will toady to them as Obama does, but someone potentially worth dealing with on his terms.
Dismissing him as stupid is pretty dangerous, especially given his past membership in the Democratic Party, suggesting that his right-wing appeals may just be politics to win in the primary.
The politics of the right-wing is very dangerous, but then, the current Israeli government has very clearly adopted that path, and will not stop in its drive toward catastrophe until forced from power.
i do hope full prosecution of all Israhell Officials are enacted. I was hosting Ann Wright in Billings, Montana where she gave a 6 city tour and when leaving here she was on her way to the Freedom Flotilla to break the blockade of Gaza, Palestine. She was roughed up and slightly injured, she represented me ~ i donated money for this imperative voyage. i hope the Israeli murderers are hung.
How long will it take before we see articles about how zionists took charge of Judaism in the US?
Oh spare me the transparent concern trolling ivri! You object to Palestinian violence – while applauding much, much greater levels of Israeli violence – and yet I’m willing to bet quite a large amount of money that you also condemn peaceful Palestinian resistance like BDS.
“It appears that the Palestinians are ready to sacrifice real interests of theirs for the imminent relish of problems – suffering and fear – their acts cause to Israeli Jews.”
What ‘real interests’? I said on another thread that even though the last decade has seen the fewest Israeli victims of ‘terrorism’, all it has led to for the Palestinians has been Sderot cinema, the siege of Gaza, a war every two years, and Bibi on track to being the longest serving PM in Israel’s history. This idea that all will be well if only the Palestinians submit and give their occupiers a cost-free occupation is self-serving nonsense.
Oh, and what on earth is an ”imminent relish of problems”?
Thanks for posting the link to Cesarani , Yoni.
BTW, on the day of–September 11, 2001–I heard the Israeli NJ arrest report on TV where I live. This has never been in dispute as far as I am concerned.
And it has been included in Paul Thompson’s 911 timeline since Day One: Complete 911 Timeline – History Commons
Resistance against the occupation and BDS are nonviolent, PERIOD, TROLL.
YONIFALIC- “The differences between cultural Zionism and political Zionism were minor.”
Since cultural Zionists such as Arendt, Einstein and Chomsky opposed the creation of a Jewish state, I would hardly consider that a minor difference.
I’ve heard about the Israeli movers’ story down through the years and never been very interested in it, it’s in s being in a gray zone of unproveable assertions.
Grant Smith secured the truth of the matter with a FOIA from the FBI. He published them, and a rebuttal to the Trump claim on Antiwar.com, on November 24, 2015.
“Joyous Celebration” during 9/11 World Trade Center Attack
“…five (5) Israeli nationals, detained in conjunction with the TWINBOMB investigation, had videotaped the terrorist attack on the World Trade Center and may have possessed foreknowledge of the same…”
link to israellobby.org
A Youtube compilation of news reports on September 11, 2001 including the woman who first saw the men beneath her apartment building celebrating the downing of the WTC thinking they were ‘Middle Eastern’ (at 4:12), and the East Rutherford NJ cop, Scott deCarlo, (at 4:31) who arrested the Israelis on the turnpike. Don’t miss minute 5:00. These are the returning Israelis explaining on Israeli TV months later, and after they were released from a Brooklyn jail and whisked home, that they had gone to NYC “to document the event”:
You should note that the FBI’s May 3, 2012, 70-page file copy of Wayne Madsen report on “The Israeli Art Students and Movers” (in Grant Smith’s FOIA listing) contains a stunning list of names, identities, and addresses of Israelis involved in spying on the US.
Smith’s FBI document haul total nearly 400 pages of provable “assertions.”
Did Trump inadvertently open a hornet’s nest?
If the natives did not resist the white racist Eastern European invaders and their non-European ersatz native collaborators by any and all available means, would the native situation be any better?
Some of my old Blich high school mates have told me that they think I might have had the right idea about leaving (although perhaps for the wrong reasons). I doubt that they would be thinking in this direction except for the current level of resistance.
Indeed, Krauss. It’s difficult to think of the lobby as ‘pro-Israel’ while it seems intent on digging the grave deeper.
“the truth that if there were 15 million Muslims and 1.5 billion Jews, we probably wouldn’t hear much about a Jewish state because there would be dozens of them…” “Hophmi”
But, my dear “Hophmi” there aren’t 1.5 billion Jews and and 15 million Muslims. It is, as you point out, the other way round.
But we are supposed to pretend there are 1.5 billion Jews and 15 million Muslims? Why would anybody do that?
“I’m curious to see how they are going to try to spin that an actual survivor of Nazi Germany is a self hating Jew.”
I think that they have flogged the “self hating” and “self loathing” to death. Wouldn`t be surprised if Hasbara HQ came up with a directive to all its operatives to use an alternative more cuddly epithet like”self doubting”.
|| ivri: … It appears that the Palestinians are ready to sacrifice real interests of theirs for the imminent relish of problems – suffering and fear – their acts cause to Israeli Jews. … When they will wake up there will already be new realities around them – and surely they will blame the Israelis for that. ||
And there you have it:
– It’s the victim’s fault that the rapist keeps her chained in his basement and repeatedly rapes her.
– It’s her fault if she doesn’t lie back and enjoy the ride.
– It’s her fault if the anxiety he feels every time she lashes out at him cause him to keep her captive for months or years to come.
– It’s her fault that when he finally does dispose of her the world will have changed around her.
– She will surely blame the rapist for that…but it’s all her fault.
Never, ever must:
– the victim be liberated; and
– the rapist be arrested, tried and held accountable for his past and on-going crimes.
Zio-supremacists are truly hateful and immoral people.
“donors” is not the correct term. It’s “bribers”.
Probably a fair question. Israelis need to answer the same question about the even greater violence and fear they inflict as well as the land thefts. Until now Israelis have always preferred land over life. Peace isn’t desired but a manageable relative quiet.
@RoHa: “Kris, there is no contradiction…”
You’re right, RoHa. My concern is not with a non-existent contradiction, but with the Russia-bashing that our mass media is pushing 24/7 now, along with Muslim-bashing. My point was that we should not forget either the decisive role that the Soviets played in defeating the Nazis, or the unimaginable suffering that they experienced.
We are being conditioned right now to see Muslims, Russia and Putin as monsters, and ourselves as innocents. This strategy of demonization has been used many times before, and bodes ill.
“As long as resistance does not include violence against Jews.”
Max, when Zionists attack Palestinian solidarity and/or BDS activists and supporters, they will have to defend themselves.
After all, if you were defending the ultimate, life or death endeavor of Zionism, would it be sufficient, would it be right to restrict yourself to mere words?
Did who-is-it, or thing-a-ma-bobsk (I can’t remember those Old Testament names, but you know who I mean) restrict their bad selves to mere words against attackers?
I really don’t see where “attacking Jews” comes into it. Besides, at least in the USA, employment law forbids religious discrimination. So they can hire anybody for the work
Certainly explains supremacist mindsets and,as well, a capacity to do such evil actions against humanity if one buys into such asinine beliefs.
That had how large a group of followers of this particular strain exist?