100 Most Recent Comments


talknic
October 22, 2014, 6:36 pm

@ ivri “So, to sum up, Israel is about: ethnic cleansing, apartheid, genocide, colonialism, Apartheid, land theft, Lebensraum, war crimes, children-killing, opportunism vis-à-vis the West and what not- In short, the amalgamation of all the conceivable vices in this world”

If you say so….

“Poor, Ayatollahs, Hezbollah, Hamas, the Assads, Erdogan, ISIL, (the late) Saddam and Qaddafi and all the rest in the region who have had the misfortune to have an entity like that in their midst.”

If you say so…

… weird …

hophmi
October 22, 2014, 6:34 pm

And yet again, I feel compelled to remind you Phil, that the vast majority of Israelis are not in the street chanting “Death to the Arabs.” It remains a small minority, maybe as small as the group of people (50 out of a town of 25,000), who were watching the IDF bomb Gaza from their lawn chairs in Sderot.

It’s always a disingenuous rhetorical device to try and define a group by the most extreme among them. It’s the tool of the propagandist and the demagogue.

hophmi
October 22, 2014, 6:32 pm

The question is whether a Palestinian leader would ever be as reflective as Ruby Rivlin. Because Palestinian society is a society that elected to lead it a terrorist organization that preaches the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. That’s pretty sick too. We can’t always be the only ones self-reflecting.

oldgeezer
October 22, 2014, 6:09 pm

I think deflection must a standard course in Israeli schools.

a blah chick
October 22, 2014, 5:58 pm

“But, in any case, Prof. Weiss’ comments were written on a private platform, his Facebook page, and not in any university setting.”

Didn’t help those Arabs in israel who got canned from their jobs for things they said on THEIR facebook pages. Gee, I wonder why?

Mooser
October 22, 2014, 5:52 pm

Really something, isn’t it “talknic”? He’s really a prize, that “ivri” (if that’s even his real name!)

Mooser
October 22, 2014, 5:46 pm

“Hi, Mooser. Why do you leave off your list the possibility that Israel will soften?”

Oh, I don’t know. Probably because I read a blog called Mondoweiss, I guess. Ever hear of it?

talknic
October 22, 2014, 5:37 pm

@ ivri

“Let`s take a more positive angle here”

WOW!! this will be interesting! Adhere to International Law perhaps or write and adopt an a constitution as promised 66 years ago and finally elect a Govt legally, under that constitution, then finally, after 66 years of belligerence, withdraw from all non-Israeli territory, taking all Israeli citizens back to Israel, paying rightful reparations, stop educating Israelis with blatant lies and vast omissions of historical fact?

“Nobody would expect somebody like Assad to state that the Syrian society is sick simply because it`s obvious and also most likely beyond repair. “

OH?! Right, I forgot. A more positive angle especially where Israel is concerned, is to point elsewhere as though it will change Israel’s illegal lust for non-Israeli territory, its biased, racist, bigoted laws and the plethora of lies it tells itself in order to justify the systematic theft of non-Israeli territory in the quest for an ILLEGAL and unjustifiable Greater Israel in contravention of International Law and the UN Charter

“You can hear such provocatively sounding statements in all Western countries and just ask a Frenchman about his view on the state of France and you get a depressing litany of complaints.”

Uh huh. Care to point to en example from the French PRESIDENT …. thx I’ll wait

“The matter is that when you are almost OK …”

The Israeli PRESIDENT seems to be saying Israel is NOT almost or anywhere near almost OK

“there is a point to make efforts to try to overcome problems”

by ‘point’ing elsewhere …. you’re schtick is so cute

“And I bet that ravishing beauties spend more time on appearance.”

Uh huh. Israel spends an inordinate amount of time, effort and money lobbying for support and attempting to justifying its ILLEGAL acquisition of other folks territory. Is that on a par with a ravishing beauty?

Bornajoo
October 22, 2014, 5:34 pm

Would love to meet up. Count me in. I agree that a restaurant in edgeware road is a good place. Now how do we organise this??

seafoid
October 22, 2014, 5:15 pm

Too little, too late?

good analysis but the only thing that will reverse 40+ years of colonial expansion is the application of power and that can only comes from outside. Tomorrow morning Israelis will go to work and reactivate the machine as they have every day since june 1967.

If Israelis are sentient enough to understand what is happening and want to do something they should listen to the words of Mario Savio

link to youtube.com

But it’s far more likely that nothing will be done and that Israel will proceed serenely to the cliff

seafoid
October 22, 2014, 5:01 pm

MHughes

I would suggest one of the Lebanese restaurants on the Edgware Road- eg Maroush
Tabbouleh and shisha and Mondo chat.

link to maroush.com

Horizontal
October 22, 2014, 5:00 pm

Let’s not forget how Helen Thomas got the bum’s rush for simply suggesting that the foreign occupiers of Palestine go back where they came from. Instead of actually discussing what she said, everyone just focused on her saying the unsayable and brought out the knives. So long, 50+ year career.

Meanwhile, Joan Rivers rants in the worst possible fashion, spouts some lame apology about “context,” then dies, and is lauded to the stars, all nastiness swept under the carpet.

Double standard much?

seafoid
October 22, 2014, 4:55 pm

Unless Rivlin does something about it, it’s just posturing, Ivri. There is nothing positive about Israel being so sick. Israel needs to be taken into care and treated for as long as necessary. To do that will mean that the education system has to be reformed and funding cut off from YESHA. It’s not a case of take this aspirin and go rest for the afternoon.

Rivlin would need to make a national address to tell Yossi Israeli that the last 50 years have been a complete waste of everyone’s time. He won’t. The iterations will continue until Zionism blows up. And then Yossi will have to pay dearly. It’s always the ordinary schmucks who pick up the pieces when elite dreams die.

Horizontal
October 22, 2014, 4:49 pm

@Annie ~

I totally agree; dialogue is a total waste of time so long as the settlements keep expanding and Israel’s intentions are clear, even though the US and Israel persist in pretending otherwise.

So what’s the best way to understand Rivlin: Too little, too late? Or like Chomsky, a prisoner of his generation?

straightline
October 22, 2014, 4:33 pm

Palikari: How do you define left and right wing?

Do you equate right wing with support for the Zionist State?

Explain how if Conservative Party is anti-Israel, 80% of Conservative MPs are members of Conservative Friends of Israel?

John Douglas
October 22, 2014, 4:17 pm

Where else but Mondoweiss could I know this? Thanks Shmuel and everyone else.

ivri
October 22, 2014, 4:04 pm

Let`s take a more positive angle here. Nobody would expect somebody like Assad to state that the Syrian society is sick simply because it`s obvious and also most likely beyond repair. You can hear such provocatively sounding statements in all Western countries and just ask a Frenchman about his view on the state of France and you get a depressing litany of complaints. The matter is that when you are almost OK there is a point to make efforts to try to overcome problems and also in free-speech countries, constantly bombarded with “strong” statements of all kinds, if you don`t use some “dramatic” phrase nobody pays attention.
It really relates to a famous paradox: Who reads more books? Likely, the already learned. And I bet that ravishing beauties spend more time on appearance. That`s in short the case with Israel and its malaises and that is also why statements like these make no splashes.

MH
October 22, 2014, 4:03 pm

Hi, Mooser. Why do you leave off your list the possibility that Israel will soften?

In SA and NI both, there was a period of years where individuals who’d concluded that nobody could win any longer met clandestinely with one another as acknowledged enemies.

After that, anything or nothing might have happened, including things getting worse, not better.

lysias
October 22, 2014, 3:57 pm

Democracy Now! played an interview with Noam Chomsky this morning. He said there has already been a massive shift in the thinking of American students on the I/P issue. He said that, in past decades, whenever he’s said anything that could be considered anti-Israeli, he has had to be protected by campus security, even on his own campus of MIT. Now, however, none of that security is needed, and his audiences support what he has to say enthusiastically.

Krauss
October 22, 2014, 3:57 pm

Listened through the radio show. Bernard Avishai is probably even more hilarious. A total Likudnik masquerading as a peacenik. God, I’m pleased that these bigots aren’t able to get away like they used to back in the day.

seafoid
October 22, 2014, 3:57 pm

Palestine will be free but so too will Israel. Zionism is a miserable cage.

seafoid
October 22, 2014, 3:55 pm

I expect Hoph along any minute now to say he’s never heard of public enemy and that anyway Barry Manilow is where it is at and that Phil is out of touch with edgy jewish culture.

W.Jones
October 22, 2014, 3:54 pm

This is a country where a settler extremist assassinated a prime minister who was saying he wanted to compromise with Palestinians, 19 years ago.
Considering the massive upsurge in rightwing forces after Rabin’s death, one may suppose that his pro-peace positions are why he was terminated, sadly.

However, who knows the real details on what exactly happened? We already know about the Pulsa D’Nura. Who knows how much farther that story goes.

lysias
October 22, 2014, 3:52 pm

Here’s an article from The Jewish Daily Forward about an Israeli-style hummus restaurant in Berlin: Berlin’s Hummus Entrepreneurs:

I soon discovered that Zula was just the tip of the chickpea. In fact, Berlin has become a hotbed of hummus entrepreneurship, with joints like Zula, Sababa and Djimalaya popping up in its most popular neighborhoods. Much of the Berlin hummus buzz is — unsurprisingly — connected to the mass immigration of Israelis to the city. The German capital has an estimated 20,000 Israeli-born residents, most of whom have arrived since the beginning of the decade.

lysias
October 22, 2014, 3:46 pm

Speaking of restaurants, here’s an article from The Jewish Daily Forward about an Israeli-style hummus restaurant in Berlin: Berlin’s Hummus Entrepreneurs:

I soon discovered that Zula was just the tip of the chickpea. In fact, Berlin has become a hotbed of hummus entrepreneurship, with joints like Zula, Sababa and Djimalaya popping up in its most popular neighborhoods. Much of the Berlin hummus buzz is — unsurprisingly — connected to the mass immigration of Israelis to the city. The German capital has an estimated 20,000 Israeli-born residents, most of whom have arrived since the beginning of the decade.

Sycamores
October 22, 2014, 3:32 pm

where has ‘dialogue’ with Israelis got the Palestinians?
i can understand why Palestinian would abandon “the secret of dialogue”. considering the secret is the more the Palestinians talk the more the Israelis create facts on the ground by stealing Palestinian lands.

Rivlin doesn’t mention land theft as a major problem towards the abandonment of dialogue. so in my eyes he’s no De klerk but simply an appeaser to those liberals who reside on an ice floe, zionimos.

MH
October 22, 2014, 3:29 pm

Not impressed.

The boycott that wants to carry “just-mindedness” into the Israeli camp continues to ignore the United States camp. Why is sauce for the goose not sauce for the gander?

To be consistent with itself, the boycott movement needs to call out the silent partner in the equation. Mr. Diaz, you have a lot more you could bring to the table than your invincible hope. By which I mean, your livelihood.

The radical action would be for American scholars and artists to turn the boycott on themselves—to call on the rest of the world to forgo exchange with the United States—to practice the solidarity of actual sacrifice.

I’m no such heroine, but neither do I engage in high-flown self-congratulation.

Krauss
October 22, 2014, 3:22 pm

Listening to your radio interview now, Phil. Beinart is a pathological liar. Tries to compare European democracies to Israel. There is not a single European country that has a “special responsibility to one ethnic group”.

Israel has a Jews-only immigration policy. There is no European equivalent, not even countries like Finland or Poland.

Kay24
October 22, 2014, 3:17 pm

I like that reference to the whip. Yes indeed not only Obama, but so does our congress. If this was one of their pet enemies like Iran, who insulted the President or the US, oy vey, the outrage would have been deafening. But when it comes to Israel and especially the Nutty Net, then it is okay, and not a murmur of objections. Nutty Net can get away with anything, even war crimes.

Annie Robbins
October 22, 2014, 3:16 pm

Anyone who is really serious about ending I/P and any kind of justice for Palestine should understand by now who they have to go after.
While BDS is having an effect world wide and campus protest/ divisions are having a effect in academia they havent yet drawn any blood in congress and Us government.
So I’ll say again–go after the politicians, go after the politicians.

I’ll say again–go after the youth, go after the youth!

you can go after the politicians til the cows come home but the best way to defeat them will remain at the ballot box. which means changing popular opinion. it won’t change noticeably in this election but if the trend happening in colleges all around the county continues it will impact the elections (big time). which doesn’t mean you can’t go after them (politicians) now because we should. it means the best way to go after them is educating the youth.

a blah chick
October 22, 2014, 3:13 pm

The reason why it isn’t going “viral” is because Zionism and its sympathizers control the corporate media agenda.

Our elite big business media is very careful about what things they present for our news digestion. They do not want to present people or ideas that will cause deep thinking or anything that makes them and other elites look bad. So when Rula Jebreel called them out for their Gaza coverage being top heavy with Israeli government officials she was immediately banned from the airwaves; you call out the elite media at your peril. Another example was Bennett’s infamous “self-genocide” comment. Note that Blitzer stood there and said nothing in reaction and the rest of the media elites followed suit. This is the other thing they do: protect their fellows from anything that might be embarassing.

The Agenda is insidious because it allows the elite media to divert attention from the things they are responsible for. A few years back Dateline did a promo for a report on why missing white women get more attention then their black or brown counterparts. Hot dang, I thought, finally a report on how race plays in the reporting of crime. But no, all we got was some watered down report that suggested white families might be more proactive in getting their pleas to the public. Really? All those white families know the number to the local TV station but not the black or brown ones? Give me a break.

One more example, and it concerns Imus’s disrespectful comments about the Rutgers’ Women’s basketball teem. The elite media made sure to steer everyone into a discussion of African American culture (“look how disrespectful black men are to black women!”) and away from talking about the white guys in suits who put Imus on the air and kept him there. They know how to look after the men who pay their salaries.

MHughes976
October 22, 2014, 3:13 pm

We can probably find a way. Could we tempt any of the MW leadership over to the UK?

MHughes976
October 22, 2014, 3:11 pm

If we were going to follow the New York model in London we would need a good ME-style restaurant. I don’t have much knowledge of the London restaurant scene, perhaps someone here does.

bryan
October 22, 2014, 3:08 pm

I have to say there is a lot of patronising going on here – Mondoweiss has spent the last few weeks / months / years focusing on what may ultimately be a very few positive moves coming from Anti-Zionist / Post-Zionist / Non-Zionist Jews and non-Jewish intellectuals regarding Justice for Palestine – which I sign up to entirely. However why undermine a possibly authentic voice of the Jewish establishment who offers similar sentiments. Much as one can condemn the extent to which criticism of Israel is absurdly portrayed as anti-Antisemitism, when a legitimate voice of the Israeli establishment, no matter how “symbolic” he may be, offers criticism of his state, which is generally in line with what a lot of posters here feel, why not celebrate the fact that Israel is a diverse society, with a small number of internationalists who can appreciate the stupid hole that the rest of their society are digging for themselves?

Palikari
October 22, 2014, 3:05 pm

I am not British, and I’m not voting for UKIP. I just said that today UKIP is the only non-leftist party in Britain.

Annie Robbins
October 22, 2014, 3:01 pm

what i find interesting is Rivlin’s call for dialogue when palestinians are finally fed up with these kind of empty kumbayas are are now anti normalization. if he thinks dialogue is the answer he needs to get the jewish israelis on one page, somewhat at least. as part of the government he could start by making structural changes like some mandatory school program that educated the youth on the actual history of the beginning of the state (nakba!). why dialogue with people in denial, a majority of which don’t even recognize palestinians as a people?

this is meaningless at this stage of the game in an environment (like i mentioned about) of the courts empowering draconian anti democratic legislation by turned the clock backwards and passing it into law!!! and then lets all dialogue?

MRW
October 22, 2014, 2:57 pm

The only way to solve this is through a rights-based legal approach. [...] The guilty get punished. We need to get back on that track.

Yeah, it’s called justice. And it should be applied equally.

Horizontal
October 22, 2014, 2:56 pm

Nicely worded.

lysias
October 22, 2014, 2:53 pm

If you think the Tories are left-wing, and are willing to consider voting for UKIP, that speaks volumes about your judgment.

Amar
October 22, 2014, 2:51 pm

Blight unto the nations.

eljay
October 22, 2014, 2:44 pm

>> Mooser: In the non-anti-semitic version of the opera, Klinghoffer defeats the terrorists, throws them in the steerage, and single-hands the liner back to port.

Captain Israel would be proud.

Krauss
October 22, 2014, 2:39 pm

I’M HERE TO CONFIRM THAT MEGAN IS OKAY WITH JEWS!

Honestly, Mr. Kahn, she and everyone else does not need your services.
It’s shocking how retrograde American campuses are on this issue even today.

Or how the fraudulent Klinghoffer hysteria spun out of control. America’s ain’t alright when it comes to Zionism.

Horizontal
October 22, 2014, 2:33 pm

I find this an interesting counterpoint to the Ice Floe story on this same site, where the question was all about the ability to dialogue and whether there was anyone left to dialogue with? I’m wondering if Rivlin’s discovering the same deficit.

As far as its not catching fire here in the US, that’s not surprising, considering who’s manning the hoses.

Krauss
October 22, 2014, 2:28 pm

Heh, that was a pretty brutal comment from Phil, but maybe he’s right? I see a lot more diversity of opinion in my circles(mostly 20s, secular).

I guess Phil is unfortunate to have been stuck in a generation that is politically reactionary.
I would also add, Phil, that for some older folks that I’ve met, who deep down don’t really like this idea of intermarriage, but who are secular/atheist through and through, Israel is really a bulwark against assimilation. They get that they are not threatened in any serious way in the West, but they feel that a state is the only way to make sure secular Jewry survives. Maybe they’re right, maybe not.

P.S. I also think you’re a bit too cynical on dialogue groups. Sure, the way they are employed, as a band-aid for people to sooth their conscience, is pretty disgusting. But dialogue groups can be very helpful, it can serve as a bridge for someone who got a hardline Zionist upbringing. Not everyone is ready it jump from Kahane was right* to One State for All in one go.

* “Officially he was terrible but unofficially, maybe he was right after all”

American
October 22, 2014, 2:25 pm

Seriously……forget those older Jews because no one is going to change them.
Anyone who is really serious about ending I/P and any kind of justice for Palestine should understand by now who they have to go after.
While BDS is having an effect world wide and campus protest/ divisions are having a effect in academia they havent yet drawn any blood in congress and Us government.
So I’ll say again–go after the politicians, go after the politicians.
Wiping the Israeli aberration out of the US ‘politically’ is the fastest way to kill Israel’s occupation and confiscation of Palestine and the only way to make sure it stays dead.

“A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear.”

Marcus Tullius Cicero

Mooser
October 22, 2014, 2:25 pm

“Second, that nobody can predict when, where, or from whom will come the gesture that eventually results in negotiation between enemies and agreement on terms of peace.”

Sure, you never know when the Palestinians will soften, and make the “gesture” which will allow “negotiations between enemies”
Gosh, MH, what, out of their store of treasure and land, do you think the Palestinians ought to offer to Israel to get the process started?

Mooser
October 22, 2014, 2:14 pm

“mooser- Rantisi is dead. But he was a jew hater.”

Is that a quote from Rantisi ? “don’t apply the brakes, let the nature of hatred and warmaking take its own course and so all hatred aimed in that direction is emotion which should flow and not be dammed”

Is that a quote from Rantisi?

lysias
October 22, 2014, 2:14 pm

Falk was interviewed at length on Democracy Now! yesterday.

Not all of us oldsters are on the wrong side. Falk audited the Elementary Italian course at Princeton when I was in it in the spring of 1965. He was a junior professor at the time. I guess that means I’m getting up there in years too.

Mooser
October 22, 2014, 2:04 pm

“Well, excuse me while I go & stick my head in the oven.”

Really, these days there are much easier and more humane ways of finding housing for Jewish-Gentile married couples.

American
October 22, 2014, 2:02 pm

” How many students have ever been called in to Cutler Hall to talk to the police and the Department of Homeland Security? … How many people are concerned about doing this panel or coming to this event because they’re afraid?” ->>>

I am not clear on this—-was she called in to talk to H. Sec about the threats against her or was she called in because of her blood bucket protest against Isr occupation?

Palikari
October 22, 2014, 1:53 pm

Sad to say, but the UK’s “Conservative” Party is not conservative anymore. It’s just another left-wing anti-Israel party.

I don’t like UKIP, but it’s the only non-leftist party in Britain.

Mooser
October 22, 2014, 1:53 pm

Dickerson, I might as well admit it. Sure, I know it’s a failing, but maybe it’ll help somebody else come clean too! I gotta say it, if I was instantly transported to Israel by Divine Power and then was given the choice of accepting the new-risen Christ or being pitched into the Lake of Fire, I’d probably be so famischt I’d just go along and convert, and try to figure a way out of it later.

American
October 22, 2014, 1:49 pm

” As Sulllivan says, any American who said this would be instantly marginalized and smeared as an anti-Semite.””

The percentage of people in any population who can be ‘marginalized ‘ by zio-nazis is actually pretty low and mostly in media/journalism, politics, and (increasingly less so) in academia.
So when the bulk of any population realizes the I-People cant really do anything ‘to them’ –except try to get them thru their own government—which only further pisses them off—the a-s power turns out to be not much.
Its only real power then is keeping the media/polico propaganda going–which fewer and fewer people rely on for accuracy.
For the average American being a whistle blower is punishment free,

”“It is important to refuse to be intimidated. That refusal must not be based simply on a calculation of the odds of succeeding. .
The refusal to be intimidated must come, in the end, not from a sureness of succeeding but from a knowledge of the cost of scurrying for shelter through fake retractions and disowned truths. It is a question, in the end of self-respect”
…Confessions of a Whistle-Blower:

Laurent Weppe
October 22, 2014, 1:49 pm

i don’t know that much about Yugoslavia, but to suggest iraq’s civil war was inevitable is irresponsible.

I don’t claim that the Iraq civil war was inevitable: if you go back to the Yugoslav exemple: the titist system lasted 45 years, and managed to survive its founder by a full decade, and even then, the collapse of the system was helped along by european powers (Germany first among them) gambling on the dissolution of Yugoslavia because they thought that gobbling up its more prosperous (and formerly owned by the Yugoslav state) corporations would be easier if the country was divided into half a dozen tinier states.

Nevertheless, my point is that regimes like Saddam’s and Tito do a lot of lasting damage to their country social cohesion: even if it’s not immediately obvious, even the middle-management is decently competent and well-meaning, the rot at the top, the corruption, the nepotism, the fait du prince, all these build up anger and resentment which piles up and can then be exploited by moderately crafty demagogues (Yugoslavia) or self-proclaimed freedom fighters (Iraq) eager to build their own personal dominion.
And remember that without the invasion, Saddam’s despotate might have trudged along for 10 more years or so before being challenged during the Arab Spring, giving time for more rot to pile up.
Although I agree that without the invasion the bloody civil war was not a certainty, the risk was always here, regardless of the high education of the local population.

Mooser
October 22, 2014, 1:45 pm

“You’re a classic extremist, Phil. You seem absolutely incapable…and etc.”

Yes, yes Hophmi, you’ve made all that quite clear, many times. Now, did you happen to have anything to say about the article?

MH
October 22, 2014, 1:36 pm

Consider:

Just yesterday a friend called me, extremely upset about Ilan Pappe’s account of Neo-Zionism in his new book, The Idea of Israel. (We’re Americans, one Catholic and one Episcopalian.)

She felt somehow that the hardening of the Zionist position as described by Mr. Pappe was the end of hope for peace among Palestinians and Arab and Jewish Israelis. I made two replies:

First, that it’s a mistake to assume that any given state of political affairs will continue on its present trajectory, without interruption.

Second, that nobody can predict when, where, or from whom will come the gesture that eventually results in negotiation between enemies and agreement on terms of peace. That was true in South Africa and Northern Island.

It may not be known for years, but perhaps President Rivlin has made a gesture that emboldens somebody else to respond in kind.

amigo
October 22, 2014, 1:35 pm

Does anyone know if he mentioned the illegal expansion or is his goal to have dialogue continue , ad infinitum as the Settlements continue to expand.Let,s all get along in a nice peaceful atmosphere and get on with the task of creating the so called greater Israel.

Just a thought.

In2u
October 22, 2014, 1:30 pm

Mr president European countries are starting to recognize Palestine as a state.
President: Lets pretend we are all sick.

weiss
October 22, 2014, 1:20 pm

Encouraging words . An important 1st step … Yet he still thinks Jerasulem belongs to the Jews only…

Maybe he needs a little “treatment” as well

amigo
October 22, 2014, 1:18 pm

“under these circumstances i don’t wish the children stop throwing stones. simply because, instinctually, it’s not natural for all children living in these conditions to be so programed as to not act out. it would signify something about human behavior if, after decades and generations born into occupation,” Annie

Indeed Annie, unlike the illegal settler kids who sometimes get tired splashing around in their ,(Stolen Palestinian water filled )pools and decide to go and have some alternate aversion from their fearful lives, throwing stones at the Indigenous natives or some such enjoyable activity with total impunity and more likely IDF approval as evidenced by their refusal to act.That is until they decide to arrest the recipients of those playful god fearing settler thug,s fun and games.

Sickening.

Mooser
October 22, 2014, 1:18 pm

.” If we can find out what drives the programming “

Okay, I hope this isn’t anti-Semitic to say, but I’ve heard it’s driven by the needs of a colonial project which is becoming more and more desperate and untenable.

Mooser
October 22, 2014, 1:14 pm

“consider this P to King 4, a first move in our conversation”

Yonah, your comments are ipecac to my ears.

Shmuel
October 22, 2014, 1:12 pm

Forgive mistakes, edit function, blah blah blah.

Shmuel
October 22, 2014, 1:11 pm

On the blue and white card in the centre that says “Tel Aviv” in Hebrew* is another card, also in Hebrew, advertising a café: “Café Almah”, which, according its website website was “founded in 2004 on the ruins of an abandoned bakery in Jaffa”. The site also boasts that the bakery employs “Jewish, Muslim and Christian residents of the Jaffa neighbourhood”.

link to pieceofcake.co.il (Hebrew)

Does “Free Palestine” also include the tens of thousands of Palestinians ethnically cleansed from the thriving Arab city of Jaffa (including the owners of the “abandoned” bakery) and a condemnation of the faux “co-existence” in the ethnically cleansed and rapidly gentrifying (and further Judaising) city of Jaffa?

Jaffa: link to electronicintifada.net

*”Tel Aviv” is printed in biblical font, citing the verse in Ezekiel that inspired the modern name — as a Hebrew rendition of Herzl’s Altneuland and the name of “The First Hebrew City”). The biblical fantasy surrounding Israeli toponyms is part and parcel of the ethnic cleansing of Palestine and erasure of Palestinian memory.

Mooser
October 22, 2014, 1:10 pm

“Firstly we come from different sides of the tracks. I am Ashkenazi and your roots are not in Eastern Europe”

Bornajoo, when you come from the wrong “side of the tracks” (I am still stunned Yonah used that locution) there’s not much you can do. Believe me, people from the right side of the tracks always know.
Good work, Yonah!

pabelmont
October 22, 2014, 1:10 pm

Every drop of water, every fridge-message, wears away the awful stone of Zionism. But bear in mind, Richard Falk at the annual Edward said lecture at Columbia U. the other evening reminded us that even though we maintain hope against great odds, it would be nice to receive (dear God, send us) a miracle.

People are living longer these days, especially wealthy Jews who give money for university medical centers. How long must we wait fro the sclerotic old guard to die off? How long, how long, Oh Lord? (How long? too Long).

Mooser
October 22, 2014, 1:05 pm

“You seem to be in an “in your face” personality and that is not me now, maybe 20 years ago, but now. but even 20 years ago it was support of rabin rather than acquiescence to hamas that was my rebellion.”

An “acquiescence to hamas “? Aw doesn’t Yonah have a nice way of saying you are next door to a terrorist!

David Doppler
October 22, 2014, 1:03 pm

If the President of Israel says the country is sick, does that make Israel a self-hating nation of the Jewish people?

Which is a joking way to circle back to Phil’s great insight from his study of Lincoln and the abolitionists, that those who, originally a fringe minority, by repeatedly provoking the slavers, earned their “valuable hatred,” the value coming from ordinary people becoming aware through public eruptions of that hatred of its unhealthiness, and eventually forming a school of opinion that carried the nation through the extremely bloody and costly Civil War. Grant, who clearly voiced that school of opinion in his memoirs, also voiced the view that no one had more to gain from the South’s loss in the Civil War than the South itself, by ridding itself of its sickness.

I hope Israel can rid itself of its cancer with less bloodshed, and with fewer lingering injustices. There can be a future for Israel/Palestine, but it requires isolating, publicly chastising and disempowering the hate-mongers, starting with the Prime Minister, and points to his right.

The US needs to stop being its rubber-stamp enabler. President Rivlin’s comment ought to grant President Obama permission to publicly criticize and even chastise Israel.

Mooser
October 22, 2014, 1:03 pm

.“I am Ashkenazi and your roots are not in Eastern Europe.”

You mean his parents came from Muslim lands where Jews were treated better than Eastern Europe?

Mooser
October 22, 2014, 12:57 pm

“myself included, are reluctant to blame Jewish culture.”

Like I always say, W Jones: You tell me what’s in “Jewish culture” what it consists of that is not common to the culture around it, and then we will know what to blame it for and what not to blame it for, won’t we?

Mooser
October 22, 2014, 12:53 pm

In2u, I think many people would find your comparison to “power hungry narcissists” unsettling.
After all, what one person may see as narcissism, another might think are the natural prerogatives and perquisites of an entitled aristocracy.

Mooser
October 22, 2014, 12:47 pm

“Another successful thread hijacking by yonah.”

It’ll stop soon. Most of the time he’s fairly well ignored, but sometimes, well…

pabelmont
October 22, 2014, 12:35 pm

He doesn’t (here) seem to care about peace, justice, blah-blah [I/P] , but only about inter-Israeli social issues. Oh well, gotta start somewhere.

seafoid
October 22, 2014, 12:31 pm

J Street as sacred? It isn’t even mediocre.
“Free Palestine” with every settler villa, maybe. Like at McDonalds.

Mooser
October 22, 2014, 12:30 pm

“As if she required that hecksher.”

Hecksher” A special certification marking that shows which products are certified kosher.

link to patheos.com

adele
October 22, 2014, 12:30 pm

very astute observation Annie. It is far easier from the IDF/Shin Bet’s perspective to put pressure (psychologically and physically) and get information from a child than it is an adult. We know that Bassem al-Tamimi was arrested after they arrested a young boy from his family (nephew, cousin – I don’t recall) and coerced “testimony” from the child. That child has to live with that guilt and shame, in addition to the emotional scars from his prison experience.

During the 1st intifada, parents would warn their children/teens that if they got arrested not to reveal any information, that it would be far worse for them if they were suspected of collaborating….and the lawyers also told them that it is near impossible to secure their release if they admitted to anything. I heard many anecdotes about this, enough to realize it was commonplace, it was a part of children’s way of understanding how to behave in their world. That in and of itself is a both a reflection, and indictment, of the draconian system of occupation the Palestinians live under.

American
October 22, 2014, 12:25 pm

” You’re just a militant (Phil)……hoppie’

That is so funny!
Phil is a pussy cat.
People like me are the militants.

lysias
October 22, 2014, 12:24 pm

Christopher Boyce, the protagonist of The Falcon and the Snowman who eventually sold classified information to the Soviet Union, became disenchanted with the U.S. intelligence community because of messages that he saw in his intelligence job showing how the CIA was trying to depose Whitlam as prime minister.

lysias
October 22, 2014, 12:20 pm

Whitlam, by the way, was the Australian Prime Minister who began Aboriginal land reform in Australia by giving the Gurindji people of the Northern Territory title deeds to part of their traditional lands in August 1975, shortly before he was dismissed from office. The Whitlam government also drafted an Aboriginal Land Rights Act, which was not passed before he was dismissed from office, and which was passed in a severely diluted form by the right-wing government under Malcolm Fraser that followed. (Whitlam also granted independence to Papua New Guinea.)

Annie Robbins
October 22, 2014, 12:19 pm

it’s not too advanced for any treatment, but the idea this can be treated with ‘dialogue’ at this juncture is delusional.

the racism is built into the structure of society thru the laws and the (in) justice system. what is the state going to offer besides facilitating dialogue? it’s like treating the symptoms of a fatal disease while fueling the growth of the disease. take the recent high court ruling regarding those neighborhood admission committees. it’s going backwards not forwards.

Does he have the makings of a De Klerk

i dunno.

Giles
October 22, 2014, 12:13 pm

“We have all witnessed the shocking sequence of incidents and violence taking place by both sides -”

Even this guy, who is clearly more self aware than the vast majority of Israel and her supporters, is selling the both sides are culpable hasbara.

Mooser
October 22, 2014, 12:11 pm

Phillip, you may be the Isaac Watts of the new movement in Judaism.

seafoid
October 22, 2014, 12:07 pm

Rivlin reminds me of that other dying breed – the moderate Republican. Where Israel has neo Likud fascists like Danon, the GOP has Tea Party extremists. It’s pointless being a moderate when the debate has shifted so far to the right. And the extremists don’t care about long term issues. They think they have everything figured out.

Mooser
October 22, 2014, 12:06 pm

In the non-anti-semitic version of the opera, Klinghoffer defeats the terrorists, throws them in the steerage, and single-hands the liner back to port.

seafoid
October 22, 2014, 12:04 pm

A bit like that handwringing Ha’aretz editorial after the murder of Mohamed Abu Khdeir.
What’s Rivlin going to do about it ? He’d have to reform the education system that feeds children to the IDF to mow the lawn in Gaza. He’d have to break vested interests. He won’t. None of them have the balls.

Bromides are pointless at this stage.

adele
October 22, 2014, 12:01 pm

how would you like your developmentally disabled child being traumatized, arrested, roughed up and thrown into the back of a military jeep by soldiers in helmets loaded from head to toe with weapons and can act at will to hurt you or your family?

THE FATHER HAD TO PLEA – I REPEAT, THE FATHER HAD TO PLEA – to get his developmentally disabled child released. Can you imagine having to plea to secure your child’s safety? How would that affect you, your child, your family? Extremely traumatic.

I realize that the ziocane may have tampered with the neurons in your brain that release compassion triggers so what I just explained to you is probably pointless. How I would love to be proven wrong!

Annie Robbins
October 22, 2014, 12:00 pm

He was only released after 15 mins because his father managed to convince the 2 hero soldiers he was mentally disabled.

i actually thought about this part a lot but didn’t add any commentary to this part of b’tselem’s report because i thought where my mind went with it was perhaps too much speculation to warrant publication in the main body of the text.

but here goes (since i think comment threads hold different standards). b’tselem said the boy was mentally disabled and cannot speak.

well, it’s likely the soldiers there are receiving instructions and approval of their actions up the chain of command (phones or walkie talkies or whatever). the palestinian community was telling the soldiers the boy was mentally disable while all this was going on. so they knew that already. but what made them let the boy go may not have been (just)the information he was mentally disabled. it may have had more to do with the understanding he was disabled in such a way as to make him mute. for we all know what they do to these children when they bring them in. they use them to find out information on others. they use them to get them to collaborate, they manipulate them through trying to garner information from them. (as well as torture and threaten to rape their sisters and stuff like that)

the boy could have been released simply because he could not be of use to them, once the commander found out the child could not speak.

lysias
October 22, 2014, 11:59 am

I learned about Rivlin’s comment from Firedoglake. So at least one reasonably prominent Web news site has reported it.

pabelmont
October 22, 2014, 11:59 am

Good points. Easy to see why these protesters protest. But also easy to see why Palestinians and their friends and allies might dislike the characterization of Palestinians generally (if that’s what the opera does) or of the hijackers.

Let us not forget that the last time Israel attacked Gaza in force, they killed far more people than a few hijackers killed on the Achille Lauro (as they also did when Israeli fighters hijacked the Mavi Marmara, killing only 9 people).

pabelmont
October 22, 2014, 11:48 am

Do these people demand action to prevent CLIMATE CHANGE which could kill more Jews than Hitler did? Or are their toughts and energies focused solely on antisemitism?

Boy-o-boy, if they can damn Foxman they are crazies beyond crazies, and I thought NRA and anti-abortion folks were single-minded.

Annie Robbins
October 22, 2014, 11:43 am

under these circumstances i don’t wish the children stop throwing stones. simply because, instinctually, it’s not natural for all children living in these conditions to be so programed as to not act out. it would signify something about human behavior if, after decades and generations born into occupation, the continual domination of a people could eventually lead to those people internalizing their submission to the point of producing children that acted against basic human nature.

clearly there are plenty of palestinian parents who warn their children and take every measure to keep them out of harms way. but logically and regardless, there will always be children who act out and resist the systematic oppression even if they don’t clearly understand it because they are so young. this is completely natural behavior under the circumstances.

and what difference would it make if “Stopping the children throwing stones would leave the IDF with no excuse at all for arresting children” in an environment where soldiers need no excuse to arrest children? sure, excuses are nice, but completely unnecessary as has been proven time and again. there have been examples of young soldiers laying in wait for children to pick off like hunting deer or rabbits. no stones, no nothing.

remember ‘they killed by boy as if he was a bird’ (paraphrasing)? there are way to many instances of children and teens getting killed for no reason, no reason at all, just standing there.

Horizontal
October 22, 2014, 11:41 am

Nothing like ending a meeting with a bang.

Well done.

I never understand people who point to the Bible as an authority when those same people wrote it in the first place. Now if the Eskimos claimed that the Jews were the chosen people, then they might be on to something . . .

Mooser
October 22, 2014, 11:38 am

“And killing Gazan kids will never compensate for what the Nazis did in Vilna.”

Oh, I don’t think any Zionist would contend that it does, just that they have the right (just as another nation the Germans had) to find out if it does.

just
October 22, 2014, 11:34 am

Holy smokes!

Did the earth just suddenly shift?

Mooser
October 22, 2014, 11:33 am

“your speculations regarding the reasons for Amos Oz’s mother’s suicide are either cruel or childish/moronic. chose one.”

Gee, I could almost say they are a lot like Yonah’s “speculations regarding the reasons” the Palestinians cause themselves all the suffering they endure.

Mooser
October 22, 2014, 11:26 am

“I’ve been trying to imagine how I would feel in your place, and the closest I can get is if I had studied religion at a seminary affiliated with the Christian Identity movement, and my siblings, etc., had moved to an Aryan Nation compound in northern Idaho involved in stealing land/resources from the Nimi’ipuu (Nez Perce) or Kalispel, Kootenai and Schitsu’umsh (Coeur d’ Alene) tribes.”

And people say inter-ethnic understanding is hard work! Kris, you got it in one shot. an almost perfect correspondence.

Philip Munger
October 22, 2014, 11:17 am

It is time to honestly admit that Israeli society is ill – and it is our duty to treat this disease,” Rivlin told the Israel Academy of Sciences and Humanities on Sunday

It is way too far advanced for any treatment Israeli society is capable of administering to the patient.