100 Most Recent Comments


Mooser
November 28, 2014, 9:48 pm

“Exactly! And since praying involves prostrations (sujuud) and other movements….. you don’t want the distraction of having women in the prayer line in front of you.”

I know what you mean. I nearly ran the SUV off the road trying to drive past the local college the other day.

Mooser
November 28, 2014, 9:45 pm

You know, there can be wonderful, inspiring architecture in religious buildings, and of course, the decorative arts reach some of their highest points in the service of religion. So there you are, with good music and good art. Where they lose me is making you get up and sit down all the time. “All rise. We bow our heads…You may be seated.” On the other hand, when it comes to congregational singing, I am there. I love a sing-along. But not all that talking and up-and-downing.

Mooser
November 28, 2014, 9:26 pm

” I had no idea what the Seder was about.”

It’s partly about the charoset, which is crushed apple, walnuts with honey and cinnamon, maybe a bit of wine. But that’s a good part.

Mooser
November 28, 2014, 9:18 pm

“This exchange is yet another example of why “the left” is a total mess on Palestine.”

I’m just dieing to know what the proper right-wing approach to Palestine is. On what basis would a right-winger oppose Zionism or support Palestinians?

Mooser
November 28, 2014, 9:06 pm

“Zionism is also the source of US Jewish privilege.”

Yup, before Zionism came along, Jews in the US didn’t have a chance. They were crowded into ghettoes, or simply eliminated.
Thank God we have a position of “US Jewish privilege” today, thanks to Zionism! If we didn’t have that, we would just be ordinary citizens like anybody else. Would that be fair to people like us?

Mooser
November 28, 2014, 9:02 pm

“when you claimed jvp was a zionist org?”

I remember similar arguments here. Most were based on philo-Semantic sophistry.

Mooser
November 28, 2014, 8:57 pm

“eljay- junior high school.”

Wow, I wonder where Yonah learned about what goes on (in the way of raillery, persiflage and chaffing) in public Junior-High schools. Scary to think about.

Mooser
November 28, 2014, 8:34 pm

“There is nothing unusual or immoral about religions not being divided in a partisan way.”

Exactly, “JeffyPop”, Eggs-ackly! So when anti-Zionist Jews start gaining the ears of State and Federal politicians, I’m sure you will welcome the additional information, and never descend to impugning their Jewishness, or making attacks on them.

Shingo
November 28, 2014, 8:30 pm

in reality the Israeli Arabs are happy to see the West coming to them instead of them having to emigrate to it and live in slums in Europe.

What slums Ivri? Israel has a dreadful poverty problem and more than it’s share of slums.

That is also why a lot in Israel was built by Arab construction workers

The reason a lof of Israel was built by Arab construction workers is for cheap labor.

just
November 28, 2014, 8:27 pm

“I’ve said this elsewhere: Simpletons like Inhofe and Cruz don’t just wander in off the street; they are elected by hundreds of thousands of American voters who apparently share their particular brand of cranial numbness ”

You know what, Horizontal? I was thinking about your comment off and on since you posted it, and money aside, etc., I started to think about hiring practices of professionals today. You have to submit everything online, the HR crew look for keywords and if you ain’t got ‘em, you are deleted. No face time, no nothing. You have to tailor your application and resume to them, in order to ‘sell’ yourself. When you get to age/gender/race~ well, then………..

I think it’s the very same for pols/media/’leaders’. They know what to say/how to say it. It’s why Luntz has a job and lucre~ he sells them the keywords. Then there’s the ‘networking’~ it’s so much pimping.

I find it depressing.

Horizontal
November 28, 2014, 8:23 pm

JeffB ~

The problem here is that there is only one message coming out of these shindigs, and since we have a two party system in this country, if both parties have the exact same take on “Israel being a pretty cool country,” which it is very far from being, then that, in a representative democracy, is obviously a grave concern.

I’m not sure where you’re coming from to not see this.

Mooser
November 28, 2014, 8:20 pm

In many, probably most, instances the promised payments were not forthcoming.

Mooser
November 28, 2014, 8:16 pm

“Tree, you got it right, although let’s agree that you can’t really ask too much of snark.”

I don’t know about that.
My snark has been pretty faithful, and done almost everything I asked of it. You should try expecting more from your snark. Give it a challenge, and you might be surprised at what you can ask of it.
Just don’t forget to duck.

Horizontal
November 28, 2014, 8:10 pm

They’re both at the cushy table of American Elitism, so things like common decency and doing what’s right were disposable commodities, jettisoned long ago.

Really, these people are way past even being able to be shamed by their behavior. You or I couldn’t do it, but these can, and sleep like babies each and every night.

T’was ever thus.

just
November 28, 2014, 8:09 pm

I’ve wondered that my entire life, Mooser.

Israel seems to be dedicated, since before its inception, of demonizing and blaming Palestinians for every crime committed against every Jewish human since the beginning of time. They’re still trying to do it by foolishly and deceitfully conflating Hamas with Isis and fashioning a ‘religious’ war in Jerusalem.

Nothing could be further from the truth. It’s all about the violent Occupation and their illegal actions. Too many have swallowed their bs~ hook, line, and sinker.

That’s a- changin’.

Mooser
November 28, 2014, 8:05 pm

“so, you are a member of “the right”?”

And it posits Annie as a member of “the left”!

Mooser
November 28, 2014, 8:02 pm

“Money and political representation.”

The power of the pelf, baby! And without “money and political representation” Jews would be second class citizens in America, instead of privileged.

Horizontal
November 28, 2014, 8:01 pm

No, Mooser, it doesn’t.

Since when did Israelis care what the world thinks of them? They’ll just chalk it up to A/S and go their merry way. In fact, world reaction would perversely confirm their own deepest fears.

When the snake starts eating its tail, there’s no place for recognition.

Katie Miranda
November 28, 2014, 7:57 pm

thanks Just :}

Katie Miranda
November 28, 2014, 7:56 pm

W.Jones: yes, it was one of the very first times I was forced to confront the issue. I didn’t want to hear it back then but the same guy in the cartoon kept pushing the issue and eventually bought me the book Arabs and Israel for Beginners back in 2001. Reading that book was another turning point.

Horizontal
November 28, 2014, 7:51 pm

I think they also threw in a smallpox blanket to sweeten the deal.

Horizontal
November 28, 2014, 7:49 pm

It’s frightening to see a society that removes the masks from itself and exposes its ugliness.

That, for me, is the money shot. It rarely gets as clear as this, at least here in the US of A.

Horizontal
November 28, 2014, 7:45 pm

“Ninety percent of the Arabs don’t know a thing about the Koran. I tell you with full authority. We know better than many of them . . . ”

Those are mighty specific numbers. I wonder if it was a push-poll?

Mooser
November 28, 2014, 7:45 pm

“And there are other special considerations Jews receive not available to other Americanssuch as being able to fully deduct any donations to Israel from their income.”

You wouldn’t happen to know which schedule that is on, or the ID number of the clause in the IRS code, would you? I have got to get me some of that action!

just
November 28, 2014, 7:39 pm

Agreed.

Lawrence Swaim has a heckuva brain and treatise~ thank you, PilgrimSoul, for bringing it to light again and for your comment.

Max is a treasure for man/women/child kind.

Horizontal
November 28, 2014, 7:38 pm

Tree, you got it right, although let’s agree that you can’t really ask too much of snark.

Horizontal
November 28, 2014, 7:34 pm

Forgot to tell you this part — I stole his wallet; now he’s refusing to discuss with me how much of his money I’m willing to give back to him.

Personally, I think that people who refuse to discuss things reveals a closed, fascist mindset.

Mooser
November 28, 2014, 7:33 pm

Does it ever occur to the Israelis that the world may not thank them and hold them in high esteem if they do manage to destroy the Palestinians? They seem the world is going to thank them for it.

Mooser
November 28, 2014, 7:25 pm

“oh god. what are we ever going to do about this mental condition you’re afflicted with ivri.”

Annie, four out of five dentists who chew gum are working over a hot stove night and day to invent Zioloft, the medicament indicated for Ziocaine Syndrome attacks.
So far, no luck, but they made one hell of a “Sea-foam Dream” the other night. Deliscious.

tree
November 28, 2014, 7:23 pm

Your snark assumes otherwise.

Elliott (and Daniel), I didn’t read Horizontal’s comment that way. I assumed he was just applying the same criterion that Lieberman does, in order to point out its bigoted nature and its natural response, by applying it to his hypothetical Jewish neighbor. Lieberman wants to pay “Arabs” to leave Israel based solely on their ethnicity, not on their politics or ideology. Horizontal would have been changing the criterion by offering to pay someone to leave based on their Zionism rather than their Jewishness.

He still did get one element wrong, though. He should have moved into his hypothetical Jew’s neighborhood and then offered to pay him to leave. That more accurately describes Lieberman’s situation.

Mooser
November 28, 2014, 7:19 pm

This pits me in mind, too, of the Native American “removals” practiced at one time by the US government. Payments were usually promised as a reward for “removal”. And how did that work out?

just
November 28, 2014, 7:18 pm

Are you ok, ivri?

Does it hurt when you think these things up? What is an “Israel Arab”?

(I share Annie’s consternation @ 6:10 pm)

Bornajoo
November 28, 2014, 7:14 pm

@PilgrimSoul
Good comment and thanks for the link to your excellent counterpunch article
I agree about MB!

just
November 28, 2014, 6:59 pm

Very well said, American.

Thank you.

Annie Robbins
November 28, 2014, 6:58 pm

i did just, thanks. i hope you did too.

Shingo
November 28, 2014, 6:52 pm

How come your Americans have racism on the brain and yet it is STILL such a massive problem in America?

Racism, like poverty, cancer and domestic violence, are problems that plague all of humanity.

The fact that racism (as well as anti Semitism) using the brain, is a good thing. The fact that the U.S. has laws prohibiting racism whereas Israel has over 30 laws that discriminate against non Jews.

just
November 28, 2014, 6:52 pm

Yes!

Don’t forget the conductor of said train– Netanyahu.

Then there’s Barkat, Shaked, Feiglin, Ya’alon, etc. And 95% of Israelis who supported the massacre in Gaza.

just
November 28, 2014, 6:45 pm

so, you are a member of “the right”?

Daniel Rich
November 28, 2014, 6:39 pm

@ Elliot,

R: …not all Jews are Israeli or Zionist. Your snark assumes otherwise.

R: Undeniably true. Let’s get that out of the way first.

Could it be that when Chaim and his friends raise $34,000,000 to ‘help’ the [very Apartheid State’s] IDF, some goyim get confused as to who is what, why and how?

As a wise person once noted; ‘A merry heart doeth good like a medicine: but a
broken spirit drieth the bones ‘

Bornajoo
November 28, 2014, 6:39 pm

You couldn’t make this guy up. What a clown. But I’m starting to believe that the likes of Bennett and lieberman are actually good for the Palestinian cause. These 2 fascists along with their fellow right wing cronies are no holds barred, in your face and direct. They are at least revealing their true agenda and it’s starting to spew out thick and fast. They are laying their cards on the table without the smoke and mirrors and with no pretense about their ultimate objectives

Maybe this is how obvious it has to be. Maybe this is how in your face it has to be and maybe this is how simplified it has to be for everyone to finally be able to see the reality of what is really happening.

I can’t wait for the debate to start about how much to pay the Arabs to leave. And they’ll probably start arguing over the figure!

Yes, that runaway train (thanks for that Seafoid) is finally on the way to the cliff edge with Lieberman and Bennett’s feet flat down on the gas pedal. Israel needs to self destruct for change to come. No more Oslo/peace process lies please, all that does is prolong the never ending agony.

just
November 28, 2014, 6:36 pm

Israel does not have ‘right’ on its side…

MHughes976
November 28, 2014, 6:34 pm

It’s quite important that all ways of winkling the Palestinians out of Palestine, even the most brutal ones, would be very expensive and can’t really happen until the bill can be attached to the foot of a carrier pigeon flying west with some hope of payment. That time has not yet come.

seanmcbride
November 28, 2014, 6:32 pm

miriam6,

Racism is still a major problem in American society, but right off the top of my head I can think of many African-Americans who have achieved great success in American society (and there are many, many more):

1. Alice Walker
2. Barack Obama
3. Beyonce
4. Chris Rock
5. Denzel Washington
6. Deval Patrick
7. Don Cheadle
8. Earvin “Magic” Johnson
9. Halle Berry
10. Henry Louis Gates
11. Jamie Foxx
12. Jay-Z
13. Michelle Obama
14. Morgan Freeman
15. Neil deGrasse Tyson
16. Samuel Jackson
17. Toni Morrison
18. Will Smith

That list includes the current president of the United States and the first lady.

How many Palestinians, Arabs and other non-Jews have achieved similar success in Israel? When will a Palestinian ever be provided the opportunity to serve as the prime minister of Israel? Or is there something in the fundamental nature of the ideology of Zionism that will make that possibility unlikely?

When is the last time that the American government treated African-Americans with the brutality that Israel dished out to Palestinians in Gaza this last summer? If the United States officially defined itself as a white Christian state, and adopted aggressive policies to protect that demographic, it would be equivalent to Israel.

MHughes976
November 28, 2014, 6:27 pm

There have been all sorts of aggressions over time – perhaps Gildas’ title ‘De Excidio Britanniae’, concerning late-antiquity events here, could be translated ‘The British Nakba’.
It’s one thing to say that there have been many Nakbas – but has there been even one that was justified?
One important step in making good some of the injustice of the American Nakba has been acceptance of Indigenes as full citizens. If that happened in all the territories under Israeli sovereign power the step forward would be a great one.

just
November 28, 2014, 6:26 pm

tell it to the author.

PilgrimSoul
November 28, 2014, 6:22 pm

Max Blumenthal is one of the most brilliant young intellectuals on the planet. If some good comes out of the horror in Israel, it may be that it brought forth such a good and true voice for justice.

His riff on whiteness is brilliant. As a couple of people have already noticed, it’s not a color, it is a kind of emotional totalitarianism that the whitest people are unfortunately unaware of. (And it’s funny as hell–Lenny Bruce would have loved that whole riff.)

I’ve lived in Germany–my impression was that the weight of German history was almost impossible for young people to bear. The younger they were, the more conscious they were of the way it was affecting their behavior, thoughts and emotions. I had hoped that would have changed by now. Apparently not.

The Holocaust still haunts us, and will continue to haunt us. But it is also used by people to get things they want, including those who are bonded to Holocaust trauma as an emotional system as well as a worldview. Sadly, those who find meaning within some traumatic memory, especially those who seek some kind of victim status because of it, have usually internalized the aggression involved in the original trauma and are busily perpetuating the cycle of violence.

Zionists internalized the anti-Jewish violence of Europe, and are now acting it out against the Palestinians.

To see one person’s understanding of how the US Israel Lobby uses the traumatic memory of the Holocaust in America, see “Traumatic Memory and the Israel Lobby.”

link to counterpunch.org

Daniel Rich
November 28, 2014, 6:19 pm

“… and if you won’t leave on your own accord…, well… we have ways to encourage you to get tfo!!!” – Josef Weavermann, military source not allowed to speak to the press

CitizenC
November 28, 2014, 6:13 pm

This exchange is yet another example of why “the left” is a total mess on Palestine.

just
November 28, 2014, 6:13 pm

You nailed it again, seafoid! Now you got me tearing up with your wisdom/poetry.

Though I appreciate Phil’s title…this is ethnic cleansing, and illegal in every/any way you look at it. Seems that almost everything Israel does to the Palestinians is…

American
November 28, 2014, 6:12 pm

This btw is the law and where it came from.

”Deadly force, as defined by the United States Armed Forces, is the force which a person uses, causing—or that a person knows, or should know, would create a substantial risk of causing—death, serious bodily harm or injury. In most jurisdictions, the use of deadly force is justified only under conditions of extreme necessity as a last resort, when all lesser means have failed or cannot reasonably be employed”…….. AFI 31-207 Arming and Use of Force by Air Force Personnel

”Under U.S. law the *fleeing felon rule* was limited in 1985 to non-lethal force in most cases by Tennessee v. Garner, 471 U.S. 1. The justices held that deadly force “may not be used unless necessary to prevent the escape and the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious bodily harm to the officer or others……Tennessee v Garner

A police officer may not seize an unarmed, nondangerous suspect by shooting him dead….
—Justice Byron White, Tennessee v. Garner

Now here is where Wilson’s story was changed from the day of the shooting to the day he testified.

# ”The Ferguson police clarified that Wilson did not know that Brown was a suspect in a robbery.”
link to newsweek.com

# But Wilson after consultation with his police department later testified that he’ did know’ Brown was a suspect in a robbery.

And the extra idiotic excuse Wilson offered for ‘chasing’ Brown was that:

”Wilson then proceeded to explain his rationale for why he chased Brown. He said he wanted to keep Brown “contained” until support arrived. He said he thought that if he could buy 30 seconds of time, until other officers arrived, they could “make the arrest, nothing happens, we are all good.”

If you expecting ‘backup in 30 seconds’ you don’t need to contain the felon–who at that time was a felon only because he mouthed off and slapped a police officer —because Wilson did not know at that time he was the robbery suspect.

Then we have ‘Wilson’s fear for his life” because Brown was such a giant of a man Wilson couldn’t handle him without a gun to protect himself from Brown.

So of course it makes perfect sense!!!— to chase a enraged bull as Wilson described him, that he is deathly afraid, of instead of waiting for police backup.
Please, this is a case of a pussy cop getting pissed because he got slapped and had his authority challenged— and by gawd was gonna get his attacker even if the guy was now running away and even if he had to kill him to get him.

And all this whining about Wilson acting in self defense?—I might be the only person here who has actually had a loaded gun leveled on him by a enraged drunk and had to disarm him–so shut up unless you have had that experience.
Because in that situation unless you are a retarded robot cop like Wilson evidently was, a dozen possible actions and endings flash thru your mind at the speed of light, in seconds—-if you have any sense at all you chose the course of action that is least likely to get you killed yourself or results in having to kill the other person.

That is not what this pussy cop did—he had other ‘alternatives’ in apprehending his attacker and he didn’t use them. So I don’t want to hear any more of the self defense bullshit. Wilson should have stayed in his fucking car just like Zimmerman should have stayed in his fucking car.
Brown would now be sitting in jail instead of dead and we wouldn’t be discussing yet another log thrown on the racial fire by a cop.

Annie Robbins
November 28, 2014, 6:10 pm

oh god. what are we ever going to do about this mental condition you’re afflicted with ivri.

just
November 28, 2014, 6:08 pm

I’m not sure that it wasn’t only Russian Jews that were ‘enticed’…

now it’s also Ukrainians.

link to jpost.com

Annie Robbins
November 28, 2014, 6:00 pm

how many people? i’m not trying to convince anyone. initially i simply asked you to clarify a claim you made about what max said so i could understand your meaning (for my own personal understanding), very simple request. but as it turns out, you later claim max never said that and to understand your meaning one first must accept your earlier premise. it’s not worth it. we don’t agree.

and claim my meaning is inconceivable.

lol, you’re funny. you continue to argue by putting words in people’s mouths they didn’t say, that’s why your argument was such a red flag in the first place. we disagree. you don’t make your case stronger by claiming i can’t conceive of your ptv. i can certainly conceive of it alright. i just think it’s full of sh*t. ;)

edit: actually i don’t think all your ideas are fos, i just think the way you’ve presented them by inserting in all this extraneous bs about max/jewish identity drastically weakens your argument regarding zionism being ‘the’ issue in germany instead of whiteness rendering them unworthy, in my ptv.

ivri
November 28, 2014, 5:57 pm

If you are from Libya or Morocco and want to get to Europe you pay a lot to sea smugglers and risk your life – and many still do that. As an Israel Arab all you have to do to get there is go to a travel agent and buy a ticket – no visa needed. Yet they don`t go. Does it not proves something?

seafoid
November 28, 2014, 5:50 pm

“Ignorance, allied with power, is the most ferocious enemy justice can have”-James Baldwin.

seanmcbride
November 28, 2014, 5:49 pm

American,

You didn’t address any of the particular issues regarding Ferguson in this last comment of yours, for instance:

1. Was Darren Wilson acting in legitimate self-defense when he shot Michael Brown? Did Brown in fact physically assault Wilson, use his 6’5″ 300-pound bulk to try to take Wilson’s gun, and then charge at Wilson? The grand jury, which included black members, apparently thinks this was the case. We know from the convenience store video that Brown liked to use his physical size to bully and intimidate others — it sounds like the kind of thing he might do.

2. How have mainstream Americans reacted to the rioting, arson, looting and vandalism in Ferguson, which has been documented in depth on cable TV with endless colorful videos? Are they sympathetic?

3. Contradictory charges are flying about: the police presence has been too strong in Ferguson and it has been too weak. Which is it? From the standpoint of the people who owned and were employed by the businesses that were destroyed, many of whom are minority members, the police response was much too weak. What do you think? How do feel about the anger of the people whose lives have been damaged by the rioters? I’ve noticed that NPR in recent days — hardly Fox News — has given that story major play.

4. What is your take on Michael Brown’s stepfather and mother, and their lawyer? Are you keeping up with the news on that front? Checking out the videos? A video of Louis Head (the stepfather) has been receiving intensive play on cable TV news — that’s the one in which Head screams to “burn this motherfucker down” and “burn this bitch down” (referring to Ferguson).

The latest on this story:

“Missouri Lieutenant Governor Peter Kinder has called for the arrest of the stepfather of Ferguson’s Michael Brown, following the emergence of video footage in which he was seen inciting rioters.

Louis Head, was filmed telling angry mobs in Ferguson Monday to “burn this bi**h down,” after the grand jury announced no indictment for the police officer who shot and killed Brown.

What followed was an intense night of rioting and looting, during which several buildings and vehicles were burned by agitators.”

5. Do you think blacks in Ferguson and environs are being as sorely oppressed as Palestinians in Gaza? Are these really comparable situations in terms of human rights violations?

seafoid
November 28, 2014, 5:48 pm

This idea says Israel does not understand the Palestinians. Never did.
The very act of living in Palestine is resistance. The land is life.
Balata refugee camp is better than the EU. You are there with your people, your language, the scent of Palestine. And the millions who would swap their place to live in Balata refugee camp, just to be there.

There she is, over that fence

link to youtube.com

And you would give that up for 50K ? And never hear cheef halich again ?
Are you nuts ?

CitizenC
November 28, 2014, 5:46 pm

We disagree on what English means. I think that when MB responds to Beck’s attack on him as an anti-Semite by explaining how it denies his “Jewish identity” that it means that he sees such attacks in terms of his “Jewish identity”.

You think it means something else and claim my meaning is inconceivable. You are entitled to your opinion, but how many people can you convince?

666
November 28, 2014, 5:42 pm

just

-5

Shingo
November 28, 2014, 5:41 pm

It is also clear to me that whilst you people complain about the ghettoization of Palestinians YOU Americans live in a society where there are black ghettoes created by whites existing in EVERY American city

Wow, talk about cognitive dissonance!!

So let me get this straight. One minute you are taking the opposing view to Annie and defending the slaying of Brown and giving the benefit of the doubt to his killer, the next you are criticism Annie for living in a state where ghettos exist.

Do you hasbarats practice the art of turning yourself inside out and contradicting yourselves?

Annie Robbins
November 28, 2014, 5:39 pm

this could be a model for population transfers globally,

isn’t this, in part, how israel enticed lots of russians to move down to settle their colonial outposts in occupied palestinian territory? giving them awesome RE deals? and 50k doesn’t get one very far in todays world.

Boomer
November 28, 2014, 5:38 pm

Re: “Remove the odious, hypocritical veto, Mr. Obama”

Don’t hold your breath:

“Israel and the United States are trying to dissuade the nearly 200 states that are party to the Fourth Geneva Convention from convening a special session in mid-December to address conditions in the West Bank, Gaza Strip and East Jerusalem, Israeli and Western diplomats told Haaretz Wednesday.”

link to haaretz.com

seafoid
November 28, 2014, 5:36 pm

“Liars and massacrists”

I can’t believe how well Killer Mike’s words about Ferguson fit to Israel

link to youtube.com

“But I can promise you today, if I die when I walk off this stage tomorrow, I’ll let you know this: it is not about race, it is not a class, it’s not about colour, it’s about what they killed him for. It’s about poverty, it’s about greed, and it’s about a war machine. It’s about a war machine that uses you. So as I go tomorrow, I might go the day after, the one thing I want you to know is that it’s us against the motherfucking machine!””

and J-live

link to youtube.com

The radio is quid pro quo
The videos they show
All dealing with gangstas pimps and hos (or IDF, Bar Refaeli and Shoah)
I’m not even trying to turn up my nose
But I know we got so much more to offer on the low
They run you like a remote control

ivri
November 28, 2014, 5:36 pm

It`s all a farce. Nobody will pay a penny for that or leave – in reality the Israeli Arabs are happy to see the West coming to them instead of them having to emigrate to it and live in slums in Europe. It`s all talk. That is also why a lot in Israel was built by Arab construction workers – they are glad to have employment near home and not live in the misery conditions of the Arab countries around. In practical terms what`s goes on in Israel is a deal between Jews and Arabs, which works for both and that is also why it has worked for so long. The next deal, still in progress, is with the Arabs in West-Bank – it`s trickier but for the very same reason as above it will materialize too. In the meantime a lot of the construction in the West-Bank is done too by Arab workers.

ckg
November 28, 2014, 5:34 pm

OyVey00, Thanks for being as forthright as Lieberman. It’s true that Israel allows Palestinians to live only lives of shit, and the Palestinians can make good cases for asylum in the West. I think most prefer to stay in Palestine, however. After all, a life of shit can be more of a state of mind, an existence that seers one’s conscience, assuming one has one. The life of shit can be lived anywhere, including the clean streets of Tel Aviv and West Jerusalem.

miriam6
November 28, 2014, 5:28 pm

Seafoid @

Why are all the Zionists on the side of the police?

Your comments smacks of a clumsy attempt to subject ME to discriminatory racial profiling

How come your Americans have racism on the brain and yet it is STILL such a massive problem in America?

link to aclu.org

Annie Robbins
November 28, 2014, 5:23 pm

american, i was just reading a link seafoid just posted on another thread about Arafat Jaradat, the man tortured to death by israel in 2013. link to mondoweiss.net (must read by amira hass) and i thought to myself, sean’s “pragmatic advice” would be not to use jaradat as an example because he threw stones or possibly molotov cocktails and therefore he might not be sympathetic to these americans we should be impressing, or something.

your narrative is always exactly like the zio bot supremest on here who are always telling us and the Palestines to submit to higher power and authority– that we can ‘t beat the elite machine–

i don’t think he can hear himself. or if he can he’s so impressed w/his own “pragmatism” he can’t hear us.

American
November 28, 2014, 5:12 pm

Sean,

As I told you before=== your narrative is always exactly like the zio bot supremest on here who are always telling us and the Palestines to submit to higher power and authority– that we can ‘t beat the elite machine–that we arent smart enough to defeat the brilliant Zio mafia or the brilliant neocons and how its all about getting our talking points together and picking the right fights and ”debating’ the machine..and all the other un-certified babble in your pathetic ‘posturing’ as a ‘strategist and political analyst .

Annie Robbins
November 28, 2014, 5:12 pm

i’ve ignored your point and therefore i have not acknowledged zionism? ha! i ignored your point because in order to make it you’ve extrapolated something out of blumenthal’s meaning that he didn’t say, by editing it thereby changing it’s meaning, to suit your theory (as i have explained 3 times now). i’m not going to bother trying to refute any more of your claims, it’s a waste of time. good day.

W.Jones
November 28, 2014, 5:10 pm

Kate, is that actually how you began to open up on IP?
Because a Native American told you about Palestinians at Thanksgiving?

just
November 28, 2014, 5:08 pm

I read that last nite, seafoid. No respect, no knowledge, no shame.

I really appreciated his “full authority”/not!

I am sure that Ofer Winter readily receives Peretz’ blessings and mentoring.

Messianic liars and massacrists.

just
November 28, 2014, 4:59 pm

“So – it is manifestly clear to me that you Americans REALLY ought to get your own house in order before you employ the diversionary ‘whataboutery ‘ tactic of ” whatabout’ Israel as a fig leaf covering the shameful state of your own society

Whether you are lecturing the Russians or the Israelis and the rest of us about racism and human rights YOU American’s live in glass houses.”

miriam6– what a scold you are!

Stop Israel from taking US tax dollars and that insane veto before you lecture any US citizen on what to say or do wrt duplicitous, violent, and apartheid Israel.

Bumblebye– great comment.

seafoid
November 28, 2014, 4:57 pm

It also implies that if the Palestinians have the power they can do it. And that is not “good for the Jews”.

seafoid
November 28, 2014, 4:53 pm

you can still be friends, Giles.

Just throw word grenades like “Gaza” into the conversation
and watch the reaction. Priceless

Giles
November 28, 2014, 4:50 pm

“If Americans can’t be bothered what their ancestors did, how are they to care about the Palestinians “?

Maybe because we can affect the present and the future with our actions and stop ongoing injustices but cannot take a time machine back to the 1600s, 1700s, and 1800s?

seafoid
November 28, 2014, 4:49 pm

the real Israel is real ugly

link to haaretz.com

Israel to urge court: Drop Palestinian farmers’ complaint against settler attacks
Israeli prosecutors will explain to the High Court of Justice on Monday why it’s hard to protect two elderly people from attacks by young Jews.

link to haaretz.com

“As the World Bank stated specifically in a report published in March, since 1994, and parallel to the Oslo process, there has been a consistent decline in the Palestinian productive sector and its ability to export, due to Israel’s policy of imposing restrictions. ”

link to ynetnews.com
Hassan Usruf, an Arab-Israeli man in his 40s who works as a street cleaner for the Tel Aviv Municipality, claimed he was attacked early Sunday morning on the city’s seaside promenade by a group of more than 20 Jewish youngsters

link to haaretz.com
“Arafat Jaradat, 30, died while under interrogation by the Shin Bet security service. Every week dozens if not hundreds of Palestinians start down the road he began on February 18.
Dozens of Israelis whose names are unknown are on a parallel track: the soldiers who make the arrest in the dead of night, the military doctor who examines the new detainee, Shin Bet interrogators in their changing shifts; Israel Prison Service guards, workers at the prison clinic, and the judge who extends the remand.
True, thousands of others take this road or sometimes a longer and harder one – and stay alive. This is probably what the Shin Bet and the prison service will say in their defense. But from the Palestinian perspective, every stop on the road of detention and interrogation involves enormous physical and psychological pain that the army, the police, the Shin Bet and the prison service inflict intentionally.
This goes well beyond the suffering that should be caused by taking away a person’s liberty and issuing an indictment. For years, Palestinian detainees and prisoners have complained about sleep deprivation, painful and prolonged handcuffing, humiliation, beatings and medical neglect. By international standards, this is torture.
Jaradat was not a ticking bomb. He was arrested on suspicion of throwing stones and an incendiary device at Israeli targets. After three days of interrogation the police asked the court (in the name of the Shin Bet) to extend his remand for another 15 days for questioning. The remand hearing took place on Thursday, February 21, at the Shin Bet’s Kishon interrogation facility, in front of a military judge, Maj. David Kadosh. The judge ordered the remand for 12 days.
Unclear confession
Kamil Sabbagh, an attorney for the Palestinian Authority’s Prisoner Affairs Ministry, asked the police investigator at the hearing whether there were other suspicions against his client; he was told there were not. He asked whether Jaradat had confessed, and the police investigator answered: “partially.” Sabbagh concluded that Jaradat had confessed to throwing stones.
Experience shows that the additional days of interrogation – many, considering the minor nature of the offenses – were not intended merely to extract more confessions, but to get Jaradat to implicate others or to gather personal information, even of an embarrassing nature, to use in the future. From reports by detainees to their attorneys, it’s clear that sleep deprivation combined with painful and prolonged handcuffing is very common. As we learn at military court and elsewhere, people confess to things they haven’t done or implicate others falsely, only to be allowed to sleep. ”

It’s a long way from parading in Manhattan

Giles
November 28, 2014, 4:48 pm

The genius of the culture created by the Zionists that those of us who do not support what Israel is doing cannot express this to our Jewish friends. You will immediately be seen as a Jew hater and the friendship will be over.

While I am a far left guy — well beyond the acceptable limit — I do have several right wing friends with whom I can argue and we still are friends.

This is just not possible with Jews under the sway of Zionism.

Bumblebye
November 28, 2014, 4:35 pm

@just
Lennie Henry was born in Dudley, which, along with our Birmingham and Wolverhampton is known here as ‘the Black Country’. Nothing to do with skin – it’s where the industrial revolution was born, so everything became black with soot!

Jackdaw
November 28, 2014, 4:35 pm

Oh, and don’t forget the Palestinian pathologist’s theory that the bus driver was chemically sedated prior to his murder. How else to explain the lack of bruises.

Elementary, Dr. Watson!

Giles
November 28, 2014, 4:30 pm

“He did not put his arms up. The guy who claimed Brown got his hands up and triggered this silly “hands up don’t shoot” meme is the same one who also claimed that Wilson shot him in the back of the head.”

If you saw the results of the autopsy then you would know the four bullets fires were fired into the inside of the arms. So either Brown was charging the armed officer with his hands raised in the air or awkwardly held down by his sides. Or, as witnesses testified and as the only scenario that passes the common sense test would have us believe, he was surrendering to Wilson.

The most likely scenario is that Brown and Wilson had an argument/altercation at the car window, which resulted in minor bruising to Wilson’s cheek and with a bullet in Brown’s torso (he was struck once at the car as is proved by the physical evidence). Whether Brown was in fact trying to get Wilson’s gun seems unlikely although we cannot know for sure as only Wilson is left alive to know, Michael Brown cannot give his side of the story. Brown flees and Wilson gets out and is running after him and firing at him (Brown was struck with 6 bullets; Wilson emptied his 12 bullet clip) and missing. Brown then surrenders to avoid being shot by Wilson. Wilson then executes him.

Race baiting is when you point out the imbalance in power between the ruling party and the oppressed. It is apparently okay to have this imbalance, but an unpardonable sin to notice it and point it t

just
November 28, 2014, 4:26 pm

The runaway train (h/t seafoid) platform is awfully crowded~ lots of folks are jumping off!

“Welcome, Diaspora Jews, to the Israel you’ve been avoiding

For too long, Diaspora Jews have been defending an imaginary Israel. The real one looks much more like the one described in the controversial nation-state bill

…….Israel, in many ways, has always been more Jewish than democratic. Even without a law like this one to codify it, its legal and legislative systems have often put the needs of Israel’s Jewish population before its adherence to democratic principles. Arab and other non-Jewish citizens of Israel have been systemically discriminated against for decades when it comes to access to education, land, infrastructure, water and political representation.

Even without legislative pieces that sound as if they’ve been lifted from the personal diaries of Daniel François Malan, Israel has a legal system that has allowed hundreds of Jewish communities to reject non-Jewish applicants for housing on the basis of “social suitability.”

Arab Israelis didn’t need new reasons to feel like second-class citizens, even if the current nation-state bill makes it all but official. The bill is not the ruination of democracy in Israel – that ship has sailed long ago.

This is not to say that this bill isn’t bad, or insignificant. It is bad because it codifies and institutionalizes Israel’s worst faults as a nation. It is bad because it lays the foundations for more discriminatory policies and legislation against non-Jews. It is bad because at the heart of it lies great political cynicism, a pandering to nationalist voters prior to the Likud primaries and an election that is expected soon.

“I miss the racists of old,” said Balad MK Jamal Zahalka during a Knesset debate in 2008. “At least they weren’t opportunists who sought cheap popularity.” This week Zahalka was forcibly removed from the Knesset’s podium by vice-speaker of the Knesset Moshe Feiglin, after calling the Likud MK a “fascist.” Any such act against the many Jewish MKs who have called Arab and left-wing MKs “traitors,” “terrorist-lovers” and worse over the years is unthinkable, of course.

So no, the new nation-state bill isn’t the apocalypse. Israel has been a Jewish state with a democratic hobby for a very long time. In fact, something like this should have been expected by anyone who didn’t turn a blind eye to Israel’s behavior in recent decades.

But it does have a silver lining: The proposed bill is so blatant, so clear, that it forces even Israel’s most adamant blind supporters to open their eyes.

In other words: Welcome, Diaspora Jews, to the Israel you’ve been avoiding. For too long, you have been defending an imaginary Israel. The real one looks much like the one described in the new nation-state bill.

For many years, the money, influence and unwavering support of Jews abroad, particularly those in America, has enabled many of the behaviors that contributed to the kind of arrogant solipsism that made Israeli politicians believe they can get away with anything. Much of it was done in the name of an ideal Israel, an Israel that never really existed, a Jewish democratic country that could balance its dual identities.

Now that this image is being revealed for the illusion that it is, Diaspora Jews can use their considerable influence on Israeli politics to help bring about true democracy in Israel.

It’s not going to be an easy battle. In his speech in the Knesset on Wednesday, Netanyahu remained adamant about his intentions to pass his version of the bill, saying to his detractors in a theatrically-shocked voice, “I don’t understand what your problem is.”

And, really, what is their problem? It’s not like Netanyahu is changing anything. He’s simply lifting the veil.”

link to haaretz.com

CitizenC
November 28, 2014, 4:24 pm

You, not I, are having problems with reading comprehension. I wrote

In stating that, in Germany, “my Jewish identity can be negated, simply because I’ve defined it outside the frontiers of Israeli nationalism and to some extent, against Zionism” , MB takes
“Jewish identity” as a guide to politics.

The phrase “in Germany” refers to the exploitation of official “Jewishness” in Germany and elsewhere. I clearly understand that MB can be “de-Judaized”, not because he defines his “Jewish identity outside the frontiers”, but because of the “arguments of his attacker.”

MB quite transparently interprets Germany in that interview through his “Jewish identity”:

“In the German cultural frame, Jews can only be strong within the Israeli military, which means that Jewish strength is synonymous with the oppression of Palestinians. This warped understanding of Jewish strength implicates all Jews in Israel’s crimes, which is also what actual anti-Semites seek to do. It also hollows out the identity of Jews who have no interest in Israel or in living inside of it, and casts them as weak, as lesser Jews. ”

That is, “Jews” like himself. So what? This is a Judeo-centric view. The issue isn’t Beck’s offense to MB’s “Jewish identity”, the issue is Israel and its power in Germany and the US., which is destroying Palestine and the region and threatens us all.

I said MB hadn’t examined Zionism and in that iview he did not, went into a tangent on “whiteness” as I’ve repeated several times. I have his book Goliath. It is a constructive book but he is not nearly as acute as Jonathan Cook, who has a much deeper grasp of events and the underlying ideas.

MB (and you) ignore what I said about Zionism as Jewish racialism, about separating Jew and gentile, as it proclaimed, and as the classical critics denounced. In doing so you haven’t acknowledged Zionism. Read the Pinkser that I linked.

Bumblebye
November 28, 2014, 4:17 pm

@miriam6
If your link is to Richard Rothstein’s essay on the making of Ferguson, and the institutional and structural racism it lays bare, then everyone should read it at least once!
If you’re going to be snottily judgmental of annie and assume she is involved in pro-Palestine activism to the exclusion of all local/national issues (where you seem to imply 100% of her activities should be focussed), then I’ll ask if you (in the UK, iirc?) are 100% focussed on similar issues here – such as our own huge imbalance in black/white employment figs? Shouldn’t you be dealing with these issues rather than always defending Israel, even when it’s egregiously in the wrong?

just
November 28, 2014, 4:11 pm

lol.

I read that with a cocked eyebrow, too. Mumbo jumbo.

seafoid
November 28, 2014, 4:09 pm

From WTF.com

link to haaretz.com

Chief Military Rabbi Brig. Gen. Rafi Peretz recently said the Temple Mount has no religious significance to Muslims and questioned their affiliation to the site.

“Jerusalem isn’t mentioned in the Koran even once. Not even in a hint. The Arabs are imagining it,” Peretz said at a lecture at the Otzem Pre-Military Torah Academy in Moshav Naveh earlier this month. The lesson was posted on the Kipa website.

Talking about the recent events on the Temple Mount and the Arab protests that the site was being taken over by Jews, Peretz said “the only mosque any holiness is attributed to is Al-Aqsa. The rest of the Temple Mount has no religious significance.”

“What is the Al-Aqsa Mosque?” Peretz asked. “It says in the Koran ‘make me a mosque on the edge.’ Al-Aqsa is on the edge. The edge of what? Mecca? The edge of the Arabian Peninsula. When they bow, they bow to Mecca but their backside is turned to the Temple Mount, because the edge for them is the edge of the Arabian Peninsula. So what are they doing on the Temple Mount?

“Ninety percent of the Arabs don’t know a thing about the Koran. I tell you with full authority. We know better than many of them,” he said.

just
November 28, 2014, 4:09 pm

Go Durham County– drop them and lead the way!

Thank you to all of the NC activists of conscience.

just
November 28, 2014, 4:06 pm

I think you may mean William Henwood who told him to “go to a black country”… though he was born in the UK…

“Hunt’s comments came after Henwood responded to a speech by Henry on the lack of black and ethnic minority faces on television with a tweet saying: “[Henry] should emigrate to a black country. He does not have to live with whites.”

According to the BBC, Henwood also attacked Islam. “Islam reminds me of the 3rd Reich. Strength through violence against the citizens,” he tweeted.

Henwood defended his comment about Henry in a statement to the BBC. “I think if black people come to this country and don’t like mixing with white people, why are they here? If he [Henry] wants a lot of blacks around go and live in a black country,” he said.”

link to theguardian.com

piotr
November 28, 2014, 4:05 pm

link to ynetnews.com

Sometimes I check Ynet News for a sample or reports, commentaries and comments to get idea of news and sentiments in Israel. Yesterday I found something that fits the topic. The most recent danger besetting the Jewish State seems quite metaphysical:

Evil spirit taking over Middle Eastern studies
Op-ed: The source of hostility toward Israel can be found in the American academia.

Evil spirit taking over! That really puts events in Wellesley in perspective.

yonah fredman
November 28, 2014, 4:00 pm

CitizenC- Zionism is also the source of US Jewish privilege.

if you could be more specific on this, I might be able to understand what you are saying. Max is contending that Jews are privileged in America (because they are rich and have accrued power as a result of merit or shall we say freedom to associate), and since nothing stopped them on the basis of their ethnicity. thus they are white and merited and therefore they are privileged. What is your contention? That they are privileged because they support Israel? They are privileged because other Jews give them a leg up in their chosen professions?

Please be precise.

seafoid
November 28, 2014, 3:57 pm

It really is a fantastic song. Not that many from 20 years ago have that.

eljay
November 28, 2014, 3:57 pm

>> y.f.: eljay- junior high school.

You’re right. But I couldn’t resist. :-)

bilal a
November 28, 2014, 3:56 pm

Becker and Lazear on Market-Based Immigration Reform

This plan represents a dramatic departure from the current practice used to award visas and green cards to would-be immigrants. While the Becker/Lazear plan may sound provocative at first pass, the idea is backed up by much economic logic. In situations where demand for a resource greatly exceeds the supply of it, utilizing the price system is an efficient way to allocate the scarce resource. By selling the resource, those who value it the most highly will be willing to pay a high price, and those who value the resource less highly will not. This ensures that the resource in question goes to where it is most valued, which is the efficient outcome. And the efficient outcome is the desired outcome, at least in the field of economics, because increased efficiency drives economic growth.

link to bushcenter.org

bilal a
November 28, 2014, 3:53 pm

What would be wrong with a voluntary market exchange, citizenship in Jordan with 50K seed money, or stay in Israel.

The exchange could be at a floating rate, and those who were best equipped to emigrate would bid the market up first, the exchange rate could be printed daily in Israeli-Jordanian newspapers.

Indeed this could be a model for population transfers globally, with an unsubsidized negative payment to emigrate to wealthy economies (investor visas).

This has got to be better than a situation where Jews fear praying in their synagogues and Arabs fear the police. As Merkel has pronounced, multiculutralism has failed everywhere.

frum: Germany’s Merkel is right — multiculturalism has failed
link to cnn.com

seafoid
November 28, 2014, 3:48 pm

“How many Jews are there who try to beat up armed police officers? -”

in the hilltop youth ?
Far too many.

chet
November 28, 2014, 3:47 pm

Just one non-vetoed UNSC resolution — that Israel honor the provisions of the Geneva Convention and dismantle the illegal settlements in the Occupied Territories.

The arrogant Israelis would of course ignore it — then the consequences: world-wide sanctions and the paralyzing of the pariah state.

seafoid
November 28, 2014, 3:47 pm

“We will not bend to your fear, we will not accept your pain, we are not going to keep playing that race card, because we know you don’t value my skin,”

link to youtube.com

Killer Mike but he could have been talking to Israeli Jews about their “motherfucking” attitude to Palestinians

BTW I never knew he worked with EL-P

whose song deep space 9mm encapsulates the state Israel is in today regarding its relationship with the outside world.

link to youtube.com

Try to buy the farm in Palestine but the land’s not yours…
Why do things we find beautiful (like the innocence of Palestinian children) undermine Zionist power

yonah fredman
November 28, 2014, 3:45 pm

eljay- junior high school.

Annie Robbins
November 28, 2014, 3:42 pm

again, max did not state that ” “my Jewish identity can be negated, simply because I’ve defined it outside the frontiers of Israeli nationalism and to some extent, against Zionism”

that was the end of a semicolon. max stated:

As long as Judaism is conflated with Zionism, a pro-Israel gentile like Volker Beck can declare himself in so many words more Jewish than I am, and I can be essentially de-Judaized; my Jewish identity can be negated, simply because I’ve defined it outside the frontiers of Israeli nationalism and to some extent, against Zionism.

where’s your reading comprehension? max is not saying he can be de-Judaized by defining his jewishness outside the frontiers of Israeli nationalism and to some extent, against Zionism. he is paraphrasing the argument of his attacker. iow, he is saying the very opposite of your claim.

He fails to examine Zionism on its own terms

it’s one interview. he answered the questions asked of him. where’s your book on zionism/israel? claiming max has failed to examine zionism is a joke.

But clearly, he offers an interpretation of German politics based entirely on his sense of himself “as a Jew”.

the only thing that’s clear here is what you’re choosing to read into it.

just
November 28, 2014, 3:35 pm

PS: ” worse for the driver’s family who will never have ‘closure'”

As if you care! I would wager that the family believes the Palestinian pathologist whose name is Dr. Saber al-Aloul, btw.

seafoid
November 28, 2014, 3:31 pm

Well said, American. It’s not about this case. It’s about the system.

link to youtube.com

But now it’s all about NYPD caps
And Pentagon bumper stickers
But yo, you still a nigga
It ain’t right them cops and them firemen died
The shit is real tragic, but it damn sure ain’t magic
It won’t make the brutality disappear
It won’t pull equality from behind your ear
It won’t make a difference in a two-party country
If the president cheats, to win another four years
Now don’t get me wrong, there’s no place I’d rather be
The grass ain’t greener on the other genocide
But tell Huey Freeman don’t forget to cut the lawn
And uproot the weeds
Cuz I’m not satisfied