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The timing of this is another deliberate two fingers from Israel to Obama and the US taxpayer. They seem to think that humiliating your main sponsor and arms donator is a clever move. Idiots.
The majority of Israeli’s want Palestinians to disappear. A large majority of Israeli’s support the expansion of illegal settlements in the West Bank, illegal housing in E Jerusalem. A large majority of Israeli’s supported the recent massacre in the Gaza. Ruthless
There is absolutely no hard evidence that Iran is trying to make a nuclear weapon. As signatories of the NPT (we know Israel continues to refuse to sign) they have the right to enrich for peaceful purposes. While wanting to have break out capabilities makes sense…Iran offered long ago to have Brazil and I believe Turkey do their enriching but the U.S. under the bad influence of Israel with their nuclear weapons said no.
Still no one covers the make up of ISIS. Did hear one news piece that reported two of Saddams former Baathist Generals in the Iraq army disbanded by Paul Bremmer soon after the US invasion lead ISIS. Few mention Al Qeada not in Iraq before the invasion. Or that Assad was willing to make a power sharing deal three years ago. Hundreds of thousands of Syrians would be alive today if the U.S. etc had been willing to consider. But Israel would not hear of it
AlJazeera America my new favorite almost as good as Democracy Now…almost
This is of course the odious sentiment that is now the Zionist norm. At first they denied the Nakba. Now that the Nakba can’t be denied and the fact that Israel was established through the ethnic cleansing of the native population has become an indisputable fact, the Zionists move on to justify ethnic cleansing by blaming the victims. The sophisticated among them (Cohen is not one of them) found a new approach: blame the leaders of Palestinians.
None of his arguments stand up to scrutiny and it would be a waste of time to rehash all the debunked myths that he repeats (“they started it”, “security menace”, etc.) and of course, it’s all good when Jews do this others, Cohen has no problem with that. The Palestinians living in refugee camps and under Israeli repression are expected to accept their dispossession as fait-accompli. If Hamas wishes to do the same as what Zionists did by reverse-ethnic-cleansing and simply roll back the clock: they are Satanic monsters!
And the Jews brought the Holocaust upon themselves too? What rubbish. I would assume that this ‘expert’ is reading from ‘israel’s 2009 global language’ dictionary. What a bunch of ‘nebbich’…can’t even think for themselves.
Well , at least this opens up the discussion about the so called non existent Nakba and Palestinians.
Cohen , has brought the Nakba to the fore .Israel has spent decades trying to hide it.
Thanks Richard.You are a gem.
>> eljay: “Jewish State” can only be a religion-supremacist construct primarily of and for Jews.
Actually, I shouldn’t say it “can only” be that. “Jewish State” could be like other states if:
– “Jewish” were made the bureaucratic nationality of all citizens of, immigrants to and ex-pats and refugees from “Jewish State” ;
– all people with this new Jewish nationality had equal rights under “Jewish State” law;
– preferential immigration to “Jewish State” were granted to all people originally from – and up to n generations removed from – the geographic region comprising “Jewish State”.
It could be like other states…but Zio-supremacists don’t want it to be like other states.
This is quite typical of the Zionist dominated mainstream media.
I think calling them ‘moral narcissists’ would be more appropriate.
How many of those 2137 were armed combatants? One thousand?
>> “If I were writing at the time, I would have condemned it vociferously. But it would have worked. Israel would now be as Jewish as the Czech Republic is Czech or Hungary is Hungarian.”
Czech Republic and Hungary are countries. Israel is a country. “Jewish” is not a country.
Czech and Hungarian are nationalities. Israeli is a nationality. “Jewish” is not a nationality.
Israel can be just like Czech Republic and Hungary. “Jewish State” can only be a religion-supremacist construct primarily of and for Jews.
Since Czechoslovakia has been brought up, I’d like to point out some things from the wiki bout Beneš decrees. These decrees were always controversial and were tackled by Constitutional Court of Czech republic in 90s, considered legal. Quoting from the decision: “It must be stressed, that even as regards persons of German nationality, there was no presumption of “guilt”, but a presumption of “responsibility”. The category of “responsibility” aims clearly beyond the boundaries of “guilt” and therefore it has much larger, value-wise, social, historical as well as legal extent. (…) Here the question must be raised, whether only the figureheads of the Nazi regime or also those who had profited, fulfilled their orders and did not resist them, are responsible for the gas chambers, concentration camps, mass exterminations, humiliation and de-humanization of millions. (…) Together with the other European states and their governments, unable and unwilling to counter Nazi expansion from the very start, also the German nation is in the first line responsible for the inception and development of Nazism, although there were many Germans who had actively and bravely apposed it.”
It was entirely different situation to Nakba. Confiscations according to Beneš decrees were punishments and reparations of costs rather than security concerns. Beneš decrees were supposed to be extended to Hungarian minority in Slovakia, too, but weren’t – the minority is still there and there are absolutely no security issues. It’s dishonest to claim that ethnic cleansing of Sudetendland solved some ethnic clashes – it solved none of the ethinc clashes, because there would have been no ethnic clashes there anyway. So can please Cohen stfu about security issues?
It’s dishonest to make this analogy with Nakba also because Germans in Czech lands were considered responsible for allowing brutal German occupation of Czech republic, which resulted in violent and murderous ethnic cleansing. Palestinians can only be found guilty of living in their territory. Incomparable stuff.
And even as far as punishment of Germans by Beneš decrees goes, Czechs are far from convinced about whether it was necessary, just or right. Personally, I think it wasn’t right and we shouldn’t have done that. In the last presidential elections, one of the two final candidates (Schwarzenberg – the loosing one, but only by small margin) said: “What we committed in 1945 would today be considered a grave violation of human rights, and the Czechoslovak government, along with President Beneš, would have found themselves in The Hague.”
How many leading Israeli politicians comment on Nakba in this way? I’d guess it’s somewhere between zero and null.
In April 1948. Before the proclamation of Israel many areas in the territory alloted to the Arab Palestinians were allready occupied and about 300.000 refugees created, in 73% of the cases because of Israeli actions according to Haganah’s SHAI report.
“17. Jabotinsky Was Right.”
Reminds me of “Hitler was right”. Cohen is stealing Nazi slogans.
Well, Richard Cohen is a perfect example of an Judeonazi.
First – like antisemites – he’s blaming the victims for their expulsion:
[T]he driver of events was not, as is almost universally argued, the Jews, but the Arabs. Had the Palestinians and the nearby Arab states agreed to the United Nations partition plan, had they acceded to the creation of the State of Israel, the rationale for the nakba would have been avoided… Had they accepted this outcome—had they accepted the rule of law—there would not have been a nakba, and 770,000 Palestinians would not have been displaced.
That is a total BS based on lies.
1.) The United Nations agreed in April 1948 to put Palestine under UN trusteeship and decided in the Security Council to asked both conflicting parties to abstain from proclamating states. Israel was even proclaimed far too early according to partition plan.
2.) The US prosposed at the end of April 1948 a truce which the Arab parties accepted, but the Jewish seperatists not. They wanted to establish the state through war.
3.) If the Arabs would have accepted partition plan, there would have been far too many Gentiles in the Jewish state. More than half of the population in the partition territory for the “Jewish state” allready wasn’t Jewish. Even more in the territory of “67”. Israel again didn’t abide to the partition plan which demanded giving all habitual residents the citizenship of the newly created state as it was customary law even when the Palestinian citizenship was established in 1925.
They simply had to be pushed out. The very people who had made war—who had initiated the war and sometimes conducted it in barbaric fashion—could not be permitted to stay in place or to return to their old homes. This was not a case of racism or colonialism but of security based on common sense. The Palestinian was the enemy, and the enemy had to go.
Again, a perfect example for Judeonazism. In this case Palestinan refugees AS SUCH have to be defamed as “enemies” like Jews as such had been defamed by Nazis. But this has NOTHING to do with “security”. Even if the expelled Palestinians would have been angels send from “G-d”, Israel would never allow them to return for obvious demographic Apartheid reasons.
[B]y the twentieth century, the barbarism of population transfers had become accepted government policy.
And before that the barbarism of genocide had become accepted goverment policy. Thanks for legitimizing the Holocaust and other genocides. Btw the expulsion of Palestinians has never been accepted by the United Nations ant the vast majority of its members. So it is not accpeted goverment policy.
“the nascent state simply could not afford a large and hostile minority/majority within its borders.”
The truth is that the “nacent state” simply cannot afford a GENTILE minority/majority within its borders. It is as “Jewish” as it is Antigentile.
Yep, the Nazi’s argument for every warcrime and crime against humanity.
I see nothing new in Cohen’s judeonazilike approach. He just uses Nazi arguments to justify crimes against humanity and blame the victims. The question “Is it good for Jews?” is just a renewal of the question what’s good for the Germans. It is inherently immoral, because it puts the tribe above humanity and human univeral values.
>> Peter in SF: According to the lunch menu linked by piotr, the only veal dish on the menu is this one …
Surely, though, Bibi has the clout to simply demand that his fresh biscuit goombah prepare a kosher dish for him?
“Si, si, signor Bibi! For you, I prepare anything!”
It was simply appalling to see an excerpt of an interview of Netts by Andrea Michelle, where he responds to the question about being criticized by the WH for the illegal settlements, and hear the war criminals make Obama out to be ignorant of facts. He stated that those were not illegal settlements but extensions of already existing homes. Really? It is disgusting that those who keep taking charity from us, even enjoyed increases under Obama, to see this liar, disrespect Obama every time he visits the WH. First there is the usual announcement of more illegal structures (which the US condemns) then there is the disrespect for the Presidency of the US, by either reprimanding the President in front of cameras, or making public statements disagreeing with him. What a load of bull we keep taking from this insect, who really should be hauled up in front of a war tribunal.
I guess one cannot blame an opportunist for showing arrogance, because he keeps getting support by Americans in Congress, who cannot stand up for their own President.
Awesome takedown of Cohen’s racism by Alex Pareene:
“I am a deeply ignorant and cloistered old man,” should be the next sentence, “and no one should pay me for my views and opinions, because they are worthless.”…
This Richard Cohen column — and perhaps all Richard Cohen columns — should be read as a memo to Jeff Bezos, the new owner of the Post. Cohen is saying, perhaps subconsciously, that he has nothing to offer the Washington Post. He adds no value. “Buy me out,” Richard Cohen begs, between the lines. “Pay me to go away and stop embarrassing this once respected newspaper.” How much will it take? I am not sure, but Jeff Bezos is a very rich man, and I think he can afford it. Indeed, if his mission is to invest in quality journalism, paying Richard Cohen to go away would be one of the quickest and simplest ways to advance that mission.
>> 4) After 9-11, he was quoted as saying “”the prudent use of violence could be therapeutic.” …
>> 12) Cohen apparently was against torture, but he also said that it works just fine …
I suspect that Mr. Cohen is highly selective about who gets to use violence and torture on whom.
And I suspect that despite his belief in the value of violence and torture, he would strenuously object to both violence and torture should he ever find himself in the role of “whom”.
>> Jackdaw: Amira Hass ‘ethnically cleansed’ from Bir Zeit University.
I condemn the university’s expulsion of Ms. Hass. Let’s agree to hold the university – and all other people and institutions, everywhere – fully accountable for all forms of ethnic cleansing.
I admire Ms. Hass’ dignified response to the snub.
Maybe Adlai Stevenson’s dramatic photographic evidence at the UN during the Cuban missile crisis captured his imagination, if he has an imagination, it feels strange to ascribe human quality’s to someone bereft of attributes like compassion, empathy or a conscience.
Like all zionist apologists, Cohen accepts the situation as it is now, and justifies it by retrofitting history to suit his politics. There are so many factual errors and inappropriate comparisons he sounds like JeffB in disguise – there is nothing in the world which can’t be altered to fit the entirely fictitious zionist justification for ethnic cleansing and apartheid. And like most, he relies on the general public’s lack of knowledge about the founding of israel and the history of palestine to parade a confected tissue of lies, half-truths and myths as if they were somehow ‘fact’. It is a classic example of ill-informed, ignorant, prejudiced bloggers who affect to have some knowledge about history and hit us with their ‘hard truths’, while being profoundly ignorant, or malicious, themselves. All of it is junk history, but that doesn’t bother people like Cohen – all they are interested in is the propaganda war in which they are engaged, to justify the unjustifiable.
Krauss: I don’t know what the future holds, but, like you, I am actually pleased to see this rationale laid out where non-Jewish Americans are likely to see it. Many of us (as I’m part of that group) are surprisingly uninformed or misinformed about this topic. This ignorance, in turn, means that they are unconcerned or even supportive of U.S. policies that many of them would question, given better information.
Also, like you, I’ve belatedly come to see (as I’ve belatedly become better informed) some of the “liberal Zionists” as part of the problem. They may mean well, but they hide ugly reality in a cloak of high-sounding ideals and vague fantasies of some better world, thus helping to enable the reality of oppression to continue.
*Gasp* Richie Cohen. What would your response be if the people of the world decided that the European Jews brought about the Holocaust upon themselves? After all, They didn’t voluntarily lie down and die when the peaceful Third Reich waltzed into town expecting to wipe their feet on a carpet of Jewish flesh, right? I’m sure you’d be up in arms, ranting and raving about “anti-semitism.”
Let’s take a better look at Mr. Cohen, shall we?
1) He’s a privileged New York Yuppie who rarely finds himself coming into contact with those lesser than him. He’s afraid of interracial marriage, supports “stop and frisk” laws, and is always fearful of the scary black man *shudder*.
3) In 1986, he said that jewelry stores should not have to allow entry by young black men b/c of the fear that said black men might rob the place.
2) In 1998, he sexually harassed a co-worker, created a hostile work environment for her, and at one point told her to “Stand up and turn around.” Stand up, guy.
3) He fiercely supported G. Dubya and was in favor of the Iraq War…and look where that got us. Hi, ISIS. How YOU doin’?
4) After 9-11, he was quoted as saying “”the prudent use of violence could be therapeutic.” So in other words, go ahead ‘merica. Lick your wounds by murdering civilians far away. After all, it’s good therapy.
5) He was a supporter of Scooter Libby (enough said)
6) In 2013, He was a supporter of George Zimmerman and found it reasonable that Trayvon Martin could be considered a threat…because he was Black. He said that Washington needs to acknowledge that Black people commit more crimes than anyone else.
7) His response to the movie “12 Years a Slave” included the quote: “Slave owners were mostly nice people.”
8) In talking about Mayor Bill DeBlasio of NY: “People with conventional views must repress a gag reflex when considering the mayor-elect of New York — a white man married to a black woman and with two biracial children (Should I mention that Bill de Blasio’s wife, Chirlane McCray, used to be a lesbian?) .”
9) He thinks Miley Cyrus is bringing about the potential to being raped upon herself for her provocative stage acts.
10) He supported Judge Clarence Thomas who sexually harassed Anita Hill b/c according to him it was “before the modern era” when apparently people primitive and uncultured and didn’t understand how sexual harassment and rape could be considered something bad.
11) Roman Polanski drugged and raped a little girl (13 years old) but that’s old news to Cohen. In discussing the case, he repeatedly put Victim in quotes as if to imply that a little girl who was drugged and raped is anything but a victim and even said that people should just get over it because it happened so long ago.
12) Cohen apparently was against torture, but he also said that it works just fine and that abolishing torture won’t make us safer b/c terrorists don’t care about our morality.
The Mixteca of pre-Columbian Mexico (Oaxaca province) used names that combined a number with the name of an animal, e.g. Eight Leopard or Seven Lizard.
Having Adelson there is the most natural thing in the world, he’s Netanyahu’s Goebbels, the owner of free newspaper Israel HaYom which has 39.3% of weekdays readership, the lions share. To say Israel HaYom has pushed politics and the population in Israel to the right is a gross understatement, it backs Netanyahu & Likud unashamedly. That Adelson should be present at this little propaganda stunt for the folks back home, is, if anything, a bit clumsy, like showing your hand, but maybe they feel untouchable, and maybe they are.
Take all this “advanced” discussion, susbstitute “Jews” with “Boers”, “Palestine” for “South Africa”, and “Palestinians” for “Africans”
That should remove all doubt that you’re looking at a racist post-hoc rationalization of crimes against humanity.
Amira Hass ‘ethnically cleansed’ from Bir Zeit University.
Why the restrained language, Jackdaw? Why not come right out and say Hass was ‘genocided’ or ‘holocausted’ from Birzeit?
As much fun as all of this has been for The Jewish Press and Commentary, Hass’ own comments on the affair are the most appropriate response.
According to the lunch menu linked by piotr, the only veal dish on the menu is this one:
Rigatoni with Chicken & Veal Bolognese
slow cooked, hearty veal and chicken ragu with white wine, tomato and Parmigiano Reggiano cheese
Definitely not kosher.
I’ve yet to come across the “realist” who argues: ‘It was either us or them, and they had the numbers and were better organised — and, to be perfectly honest, had they not done it to us, we would have done it to them. Sure it was ugly, but they didn’t really have a choice, and it worked.’
except that it appears to be the efforts of a few lone people. even the byline says An isolated incident snowballed into a wide debate and then there’s this: link to haaretz.com
the university published a statement Saturday saying: “The administration has nothing against the presence of the journalist Hass. The university as a national institution differentiates between friends and enemies of the Palestinian people… and works with every person or institution that is against the occupation.”
That’s great news. BDS will only work if it spreads through not just businesses, but through education, entertainment and media venues as well.
Please see petition titled –
“Language Experts Protest the Proposal to Change the Status of Arabic in Israel”
at link to petitionbuzz.com
“First ashamed of their national humiliation at the hands of the Allies and Soviets, and later ashamed of the horrors of the Holocaust, Germans too have remained largely silent – a silence W.G. Sebald movingly described in his controversial book On the Natural History of Destruction.”
Thats messed up.
There is a third now. Also one star.
Anyone could say in the case of Poland that while the Holocaust was seen as distasteful at the time it was for best in the long run. But what would be the point ?
It is, but it is useful to ponder if a white Christian mainstream WaPo/NYT journalist would have defended Jim Crow as “necessary but brutal” to “prevent blacks and whites from killing each other”.
In other words, the George Wallace argument. But in Cohen’s case, he goes much further than that, he goes not just into racial segregation but into outright ethnic cleansing.
Still, in a bizarre way, I’m thankful to him for being upfront with what a lot of Zionists feel but are too afraid to express. He is many things, but at least he has the bravery to admit what he believes, instead of hiding behind a smokescreen of liberalism(that always falls apart when the going gets tough, see Goldberg, Ben-Ami, David Aaron Miller, the forward’s Eisner etc).
I also agree with him on the Jewish question. But I’d go further. There’s no way the green line will ever be resurrected at this stage, so he has to count the Arabs in the WB, too, and then the demographics become much darker for Israel’s Zionist demographers. I’d also add Gaza, because the reality is, they are not going anywhere(even if Israel can’t believe it).
Where are the smart, cosmopolitan Jews going to go? We already know the answer, the well-off are going to London, Berlin, Sydney, LA, New York, Toronto etc. The Zionist dream, as in all Jews in place, has been a spectacular failure. Israel could well become a place where only the poorest Jews live, in perpetual conflict and agony.
In some ways, it’s already fast becomming that.
Do you feel the same way about benji leading the israelis to masada 2.0?
I really do not care whether people will be offended by this book or not. What I do care about is whether it is historically accurate and morally sound.
From the description given her, it seems to fail on both counts.
Other commenters have shown the historical inaccuracies.
As for the morality, it seems, like all the attempted justifications for Israel that I have seen, to use the basic assumption that Jews are more important than other people.
The interests of Jews outweigh the interests of Palestinians.
And this assumption is simply immoral.
“Advanced” is too value-loaded a term. The reality is that the Zionists were part of the European culture that had come to dominate the world. It is an oversimplification to attribute that dominance just to better guns.
“Whatever happens, we have got
The Maxim gun, and they have not”*
Heaven’s command notwithstanding, those guns did not drop from the sky. Europeans developed the intellectual and material resources need to design and manufacture those guns in large numbers, to train armies to use them effectively, and to transport guns and armies to the place where they would have the required effect. But achieving these feats required considerable organization and administrative skills, and a high level of social solidarity and discipline. The debilitating effects of tribalism, corruption, and idiotic leaders had to be reduced. It needed commitment to duty, to the extent that an official might approve of using high explosive to improve the souls of black people, but would never dream of stealing ninepence from the petty cash.
All this was part of the culture that the Zionists were heir to, and provided the money, support and friends abroad, and weaponry that they have used so effectively.
(*Hilaire Belloc. Read “The Modern Traveller” sometime.)
Consider what you’re saying.
Ethnocentrism goes both ways!
Are you saying that non-Jewish Spaniards weren’t up to snuff intellectually or commercially?
That may be, but say it bluntly please.
Let’s bring racialism out of the closet.
P.S. If late 18th century Spain (America’s ally in the Revolutionary War by the way) was like Iraq today, does that mean that it also was subject to a Zionist-inspired invasion around that time?
After the Reich is a very detailed riposte to the notion that the ethnic cleansing of the Germans was the right thing to do.
“A nation in tatters, in many places literally flattened by bombs, was suddenly subjected to brutal occupation by vengeful victors. According to recent estimates, as many as two million German women were raped by Soviet occupiers. General Eisenhower denied the Germans access to any foreign aid, meaning that German civilians were forced to subsist on about 1,200 calories a day. (American officials privately acknowledged at the time that the death rate amongst adults had risen to four times the pre-war levels; child mortality had increased tenfold). With the authorization of President Franklin Delano Roosevelt, over four million Germans were impressed into forced labor. General George S. Patton was so disgusted by American policy in post-war Germany that he commented in his diary, “It is amusing to recall that we fought the revolution in defense of the rights of man and the civil war to abolish slavery and have now gone back on both principles”
Although an astonishing 2.5 million ordinary Germans were killed in the post-Reich era, few know of this traumatic history. There has been an unspoken understanding amongst historians that the Germans effectively got what they deserved as perpetrators of the Holocaust. First ashamed of their national humiliation at the hands of the Allies and Soviets, and later ashamed of the horrors of the Holocaust, Germans too have remained largely silent – a silence W.G. Sebald movingly described in his controversial book On the Natural History of Destruction.”
Israel still acts out the trauma of WW2. Anyone who saw what they did to Gaza this summer can see that.
Cordyceps Nazi I would call it.
OK, Gill and Spurgeon are important for the Reformed. Anyone else?
I think that the Catholics were basically agnostic about this and didn’t see an ethno-religious “Return” as either demanded nor excluded.
“If I were writing at the time, I would have condemned it vociferously. But it would have worked. Israel would now be as Jewish as the Czech Republic is Czech or Hungary is Hungarian.”
they always bring up this argument. By the same token presumably Cohen would have vociferously condemned the Spanish expulsion of the Jews in 1492 vociferously. It worked..for a while . Spain was as Spanish as a nation of chorizo eaters could be. They really went overboard on the pork.
But the ethnic cleansing was at the long term cost of its economic health. It came into empire and began a long decline 150 years later. Nobody to grease the wheels of trade.
By 1790 Spain was like Iraq is now. Goya painted it.
Hungary could really do with its Jews now. The Czechs got the Sudetenland but they’ll never catch up economically with Germany.
And Cohen’s argument- that ethnically pure is where it’s at- is diametrically opposite to the argument that will be needed against the fascists when the global economy takes its next nosedive and people ask why we need Jews in Galut.
W JONES- “Keith, Israel Shahak wrote about this topic a bit, I think.”
Indeed he did, but to what avail? From time to time I recommend “Jewish History, Jewish Religion,” by Shahak, but fear that I am becoming repetitious.
This is true, 007. But you can find a review ‘helpful’ or not.
From these extracts it appears to be one half of a dialectical debate, the sort of thing students engage in to develop a capacity for logical argumentation by arguing an issue one way and then the opposite. It can be fun if well done but in this case, and at his age, it comes over as a self-indulgent bit of showing off, and a shade silly.
I’m glad that there are columnists like Richard Cohen, Thomas Friedman and David Brooks around. From time to time they come right out and say they are in favor of war crimes. Obviously the Beltway crowd and their Israeli counterparts think this way, but most of the time people have enough sense not to be too open about it. But now and then you have a Madelaine Albright saying that a lot of dead Iraqi children are worth it, or a Brooks advocating brutal measures by American troops, or Friedman praising war crimes (too many examples to list) or a Cohen endorsing a massive crime against humanity. It’s useful to have someone lifting the veil and showing how little difference there is between some ISIS thug and their Western counterparts.
Latest act of arrogant by Nutty Nets.
“Netanyahu rejects U.S. criticism of East Jerusalem settlements
‘I have no intention of telling Jews they can’t buy apartments,’ PM says in response to the White House condemnation. ‘This is private property.’
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Thursday rejected the harsh criticism issued by the White House, condemning the plan to build new housing units beyond the Green Line in Jerusalem.
So we are paying our tax money for this?
Mairav Zonszein is a moral giant. So are her colleagues at +972.
The timeline for when this Likud plan has been pushed relates not only to events in Israel, Palestine and Egypt, but also to political players and cycles in Washington. Throughout the Bush administration, neocon appointees in State, Defense and Intelligence set up structures and enacted strategies for the remaking of the Middle East (including the regime change in the seven countries listed by Clark). Many of them, like the invasion of Iraq, were already underway before the 2004 Hertzliya conference. Further plans were being brought together in 2007, as detailed in Hersh’s “Redirection” article.
The “Greater Gaza” swap would have benefitted the Israeli right’s goals not only of gaining more of (high value) ’67 Palestine with fewer ’67 Palestinians, as well as gaining some Egyptian land for parking some ’48 refugees, but it would have sacrificed some less usable and historically less valuable Israeli territory (the Negev) with the potential of ethnically cleansing some ’48 Palestinians (Bedouins).
It would be no surprise if this policy was pushed by some neocons and neolibs in the Bush and Obama administrations. At the time Morsi was elected in 2012, Democrats and Republicans were trying to out-do each other in their demonstrations of loyalty to Israel. In the months before the 2012 election, Obama was under pressure not to upset Zionist donors (they already were suspicious of him after Dennis Ross had left the administration in 2011 and Obama had “pushed Bibi too hard”). Also Hillary Clinton was pushing hard for “humanitarian intervention” in Syria (after the earlier stunning “success” in Libya) and other actions that AIPAC approved. If the White House or State had floated a Likud/neocon-approved option past Morsi it could have bolstered their Zionist support.
I would hope that Obama hasn’t pushed anything this stupid since Hillary moved on. But then, he’s recently started bombing Syria.
Cohen’s comments are vivid proof that the normal rules don’t apply for Zionists in America.
Sure, he talks about other historical cases of ethnic cleansing, but let’s be real.
If he praised gentrification as a justified ethnic cleansing of blacks, for example, he’d be off the NY Times and the mainstream media for good. And yet, as much of an injustice it is, gentrification does not even approach the moral depths of the Nabka.
So Israel is struggling with solutions for the Palestinians outside of two states in Palestine?
Wonder if they’ve considered Madagascar yet.
You have no idea. Cohen actually praised the post war gynocide in eastern europe. – a unspeakable thought crime to mention the hell of the allied victory:
Kill! Kill! In the German race there is nothing but evil; not one among the living, not one among the yet unborn but is evil! Follow the precepts of Comrade Stalin. Stamp out the fascist beast once and for all in its lair! Use force and break the racial pride of these German women. Take them as your lawful booty. Kill! As you storm onward, kill, you gallant soldiers of the Red Army.
Soviet papmlet, Thomas Goodrich’s Hellstorm:
The Death of Nazi Germany, 1944–1947
Putin, Peres unveil Netanya memorial honoring Red Army
link to jpost.com
Ask Chomsky, or Bernie Sanders about the Nakba, they were both Israelis when if was fresh in people’s memory, Its not clear when Sanders was in Israel , graduated high school in 1959, graduated chicago 1964, if he was in Israel before graduation it was probably between Brooklyn college and Chicago, little more than 10 years after Der Yassim.
“After graduating from the University of Chicago, Sanders spent time on an Israeli kibbutz around(?) 1963 – notably before the 1967 Six-Day War, when it was not common for American youngsters to spend time in Israel.
Read more: link to forward.com
If elected, he will be our first Israeli president.
I assume that it is not possible to judge the book and then award it no stars? Abmittedly, I have not read book nor do I have plans to do so.
It is hard to believe that this “journalist” is a four-time Pulitzer Prize finalist in the “Commentary” category….hmm.
Cohen says, if I get it right, that IF the Palestinians had managed to accept the UNGA 1947 partition, which the Zionists didn’t like, and which chopped the land into (as I recall) 6 pieces with three for Jews and three for Arabs, very separated (like the Bantustans now seemingly proposed for new-Palestine),THEN the Jews (in their 55% of The Land) would not have attacked anybody and would not have evicted anybody.
Who can believe this theory given the talk of “transfer” and “iron walls” which preceded 1947? I believe that as well as being a nasty piece of post-hoc pro-colonial fluff, it is quite wrong headed even on its own terms.
I strongly agree with Stephen. Terrorism by Irgun, and ethnic cleaning occurred before the start of any war. Co-existence was ruled out before the beginning of the state.
The culture argument is bizarre as addressed by all of the commentators.
The central argument seems to be who was the aggressor. Since we know that the proto-israelis, ie immigrant jews began with terrorism against the locals and initiated the explusion of the palestinian’s who merely lived there, the record shows that the proto-Israelis were at fault. Based entirely on his reasoning, he is arguing that all israeli should now be expelled.
Kudos to whoever took the title photo. What a great shot!
You are right to notice PCUSA, because they along with the Episcopalians and Methodists are some of the biggest church groups in the US. They have serious movement on the topic and strong work.
But they are not the most advanced(that might be the Quakers, who have been involved with Palestinian refugees for decades), nor are they the most “theologically correct” on the issue. For example, Jeff B quoted Spurgeon as supporting the restoration of a nation-state, while Catholics would be more “agnostic” about Restorationism. The Catholic position is more progressive from a modern standpoint: I don’t see why there is a religious need to have a religious state in the Levant, although I could even sympathize with the appeal under some conditions.
Beat me to it, W.Jones.
Efforts are probably most advanced in the Quaker movement, if not also the Mennonites. They are standard peace churches, and I think that Divestment is further along among Quakers than among the PCUSA. Mennonites might be considered Reformed, but Quakers aren’t.
There is also comparable movement among the Methodists as there is to the PCUSA:
United Methodist Kairos Response
See also the Episcopal group on the subject:
link to epfnational.org
PCUSA is going to produce more results than the Quakers in America because there are a lot more of them. However, Catholics and Quakers will tend to have a better orientation overall on the issue, because of the influence of Christian Zionism in Reform Protestantism. When I was a kid in a liberal, Reformed church, when I read about the modern Israeli state, I associated it with ancient Israel in my Bible. Quakers are not really Bible-heavy, while Catholics stick to their traditional interpretation of Israel. Naim Ateek showed a survey revealing that other Protestants often thought the way I did.
Yep. It’s chapter 14. Other notable chapters are:
3. Anti-Semitism: A Gift to the Jews.
9. Anti-Semitism Among the Semites.
13. A Bald-Headed Son of a Bitch to the Rescue
17. Jabotinsky Was Right.
Please keep digging Mr. Cohen. You’re doing more for BDS in one book than I could hope to achieve in a lifetime.
I suppose I should not make Yeshaya Leibowicz the alpha and the omega of right minded opinion regarding israel, but… did Leibowicz ever speak out against the nakba?
Only if the ethnic cleansers are more “cultured” than they are. But how are cultural levels to be measured and compared? It seems, for instance, that Palestinians write a greater quantity of poetry per capita than Jews… How about a TV reality show in which the contestants compete to demonstrate their “cultural” prowess and the winners get to drown the losers in the sea? What fun!
Seriously, though, Cohen’s main argument is based on the erroneous claim that war led to the ethnic cleansing. In fact, the direction of causation was the opposite: the ethnic cleansing was conducted for several months against peaceful civilians before it finally provoked armed resistance. What happened later cannot explain (let alone justify) what happened earlier.
OK, I got it. They were not going to listen to pro-peace ideas in a meeting with Gaza in its title.
I still think it’s good that you had the meeting. The other thing you can do is pass materials out (even if they cut off your oratory), and in case any one person seems open minded, you can talk with them afterwards.
Fact check: Adelson teaches that Palestionians do not exist.
By the way, someone raised the issue that there is a group that sues every possible bank that can be tied with “having an account for Hamas”, and they sued a Chinese bank. Israel refused to cooperate with that lawsuit, although they helped suing a Jordanian bank. I was wondering what did Chinese do to squash that irritation? It would be somewhat complicated to whack Israeli commercial interests in China, perhaps it would be simpler to threaten Adelson with Putinesque investigations of his casinos.
Kay asked where people come up with this way of thinking. How can people who are very liberal on issues in the US be extremely “conservative” when it comes to Palestinians’ rights?
It is hard to think that in normal circumstances Richard Cohen would write a book with a chapter supporting “ethnic cleansing.”
The best way to understand the mentality is with a mix of self-identification, religiousness, and focus on fear and safety. Back when I was a kid, I read about the Israeli state in the Encyclopedia, and it sounded pretty cool, like it was just a continuation of ancient Israel, like I read about in my Bible. Then, the story of people making the state after going through discrimination in Europe and the Mideast was compelling. I didn’t have the self-identification part, though.
The main thing that changed my view was that I realized that Palestinians were going through conditions related to those in other Mideast countries targeted by the West, like Iraq. That is, I saw that they were being brutalized and that it was part of a similar pattern of oppression.
For someone with intense self-identification, however, I can understand that it might trump Palestinians’ rights when they look at the issue. This is something that Danaa said: perhaps with such intense, sometimes quasi-religious, identification with a nationalist system, it may be very hard for them to think otherwise.
You are dealing with a very ingrained psychology. In fact, even Christians today might read Exodus and say that the brutal conquest that happened then (in 1500 BC) was OK, but that we would not agree to it today. It’s because you are dealing with a problem- you don’t want to say that God or Moses were “wrong”. Generally for Christians, the conquest of Canaan can be a non-issue today because we can say that it has been superseded. But my point is that religious or nationalist ideology can have a strong lock on peoples’ minds, and I don’t know how to unlock it, Seafoid, when the lock doesn’t want to open.
This is very offensive to people from my parts. Central Europe, central! Plus, didn’t they found ancient pottery shards in Israel with “Milikowski” scribbled on them? Or was it Milevicius, as they would spell it now in Lithuania?
This is the second day that port workers did not receive their daily pay because of the protests. How many more days shall they sacrifice so you can claim victory?
Mizrahi Jews *are not* the majority of Jews world wide.
Nor so that term synonymous with the racist term “Jews of color”
Please fact check and correct
This is the link to the lunch menu in that restaurant. Prosciutto, crab cakes, calamari, buffalo milk (perhaps kosher, but rather suspicious), veal may be kosher but I suspect that not in that restaurant: why bother with kosher meat if you serve prosciutto and crab cakes? Shame on you, Mr. Adelson! But Adelson had to foot the bill for 30 body guards, and that eliminated more expensive places. Although for lunch one can get very good kosher knishes, I guess you can feed 30 for 100-200 bucks. But you can’t possibly sit more than four people in the place that was recommended to me, it would need to be a takeout.
“By 1971, changes had been made to the draft to make it more fair and the protests subsided.”
I know that the protestors want to take more credit, that is a human bias.
Public opinion is extremely important. The protests, however, were not
Maybe you can educate me. Why did Nixon win in such a landslide?
Max Blumenthal’s critics complained chiefly that Blumenthal was using titles like that for his own chapters!!!!
As to the possibility of peaceful co-existence, when and why was Plan Dalet conceived?
” How they can come up with such BS is a mystery.”
I don’t know why you think it’s a mystery. Let’s just start from a simple premise. I’m right, and you’re wrong.
OK, well first off, you called yourself Kay24. That’s not a real name. Nobody calls themselves a name that ends with a number. And in case you can find someone who does, well, they are goofballs.
Oh, King Richard III and Queen Ekaterina II have a number? Well, they didn’t join their number to their name. And in case you find someone who did, well, then let’s look for another reason why you’re wrong.
And on and on. People can find ways to make things up once they are absolutely set on some underlying premise.
One of the main problems is that they don’t explore and announce where their premises and biases come from. For example, how come they are liberal about every issue except for Palestinians’ human rights? They answer will just be more commentary based on the premise that Palestinians are “wrong”.
But I think it would be hard to get people who are otherwise liberal to face a contradiction in their position.
Ah, yes, how wonderful it could have been for the rapists’ victims if only they hadn’t fought their abduction by the rapist, their imprisonment in his bunker and his repeated self-determination in them. :-(
Mr. Cohen might want to add these phrases – favourites of “liberal Zionist” RW – to his repertoire (if they’re not already in there):
The nakba that occurred in 1948 was accompanied by the independence, the liberation, of the Jewish community. So, I primarily celebrate …
If I was an adult in 1948, I probably would have supported whatever it took to create the state of Israel, and held my nose at actions that I could not possibly do myself.
I cannot consistently say that “ethnic cleansing is never necessary”.
Currently its not necessary.
Mr. Cohen perhaps (shudder) finds inspiration in the words –
” … territorial expansionism to gain Lebensraum as being a law of nature for all healthy and vigorous peoples of superior races to displace people of inferior races”.
(link to en.wikipedia.org)
These people are sounding increasingly desperate, and their hateful disdain and cruelty are both disgusting and frightening.
The protestors were protesting against being drafted. Once that fear ended, their concerns about the war abated…… My point … it was not the protesters who changed the will of the powers that be who decided to end the war.
that’s not very convincing gene. one doesn’t follow the other, logically. nor does claiming they were “brave people” standing for a cause. #Fail
btw, i was there. i wasn’t protesting the draft, i was protesting the war. and we made it very uncomfortable for politicians/powers.
it was the climate and the exposure. watergate added to that climate we had criminals in charge. you can’t divorce the protesters from the climate in america during vietnam. and what would be the point? to send the message public opinion is irrelevant? if that were the case, in today’s world, israel wouldn’t be engaged in the war of public opinion. bush wouldn’t have forbid the viewing of dead american troops coming back from iraq. of course it matters.
@ Kay24 ~
“White House spokesman Josh Earnest says that the 2,500-unit project would only draw “condemnation” from the international community. He says it would also call into question Israel’s commitment to peaceful negotiations with Palestinians.”
To which Israel replies: “They’re against us because they’re all anti-Semites,” and as for the peace process, “Who cares?”
So this BS is what passes for “sharp criticism” of Israel? If only.
> DaBakr: another juvenile response …
The juvenility of my response doesn’t diminish its accuracy. But you already knew that. ;-)
>> DaBakr: another juvenile response …
A juvenile response to a juvenile. Seems appropriate.
>> … from one who thinks that adding vowels at the end of a name somehow ‘feminizes’ it …
There’s no feminizing going on here. eee was a rabid Zio-supremacist who used to frequent Mondoweiss. You may or may not be him, but you – and other Zio-supremacists here – are very much like him. That’s why I append eee to your usernames.
I am sure a consistent thinker like Cohen will have no problem with Jews being ethnically cleansed from Israel or elsewhere.
Even if ethnic cleansing was common practice among nations up to the 1940’s, it hasn’t been since. So what excuse does Israel have for continuing its ethnic cleansing?
Titled “Ethnic Cleansing for a Better World,” one chapter argues that Jews in Palestine were only doing what great powers in Europe were doing ……
i actually thought that line in the title was paraphrasing. it’s astonishing he really wrote that!
“the full scope of Palestinian leader Amin al-Husaini’s support of Hitler’s ….”
Nonsense. Al Husseini was removed from office 1937. By the time he met Hitler, he wasn’t the leader of the Palestinians.
Furthermore, it’s irrelevant to today’s Palestinians who were if they were alive in Al Husseini’s day, would have only been babies at the time, never voted for him, didn’t fight any war in 1948. ( Logic and simple maths aren’t strong points in pro-Israeli propaganda for really stupid people! )
Al Husseini was not and is not responsible for Israel’s continued illegal actions in territories THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT claimed on 22nd May 1948 were “outside the state of Israel” link to unispal.un.org
Nakba is a neverending story.
Is it just me, or are all of Israel’s friends sounding like inhuman monsters?
Why don’t you help your neighbor and be kind to your family.
Really, I prefer this sort of thudding monster to the lachrymose shoot-and-cry of Ari Shavit, whose argument is, at bottom, the same.
1948: Jews had more money, more support and friends abroad, more advanced weaponry and more weaponry altogether than the Palestinian Arabs had — or, indeed, than all the surrounding Arab countries combined had; and knew it. Is this what is meant by “advanced culture”? And is the argument that people with “advanced culture” (such as people whose culture is so very far advanced that they base their claims on a Bible consisting of fictional stories several thousands of years old) have the right to wipe out or displace people with a less advanced culture an idea that had acceptance in 1945-50?
If so, what (precisely) was Israel’s complaint about Germany (with its ever so advanced culture)?
Sounds just like the Regev/Dermer/Nutty Netty refrain of blame on the Palestinians in Gaza for their own deaths. The they hate their own children therefore they get them killed BS. This is indeed yet another zio voice doing his loyal best to keep the occupation going, and justify the ongoing violence against the real victims. How they can come up with such BS is a mystery.