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Define Orientalism (Palestinians make heroes of people who kill civilians)

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Josef Federman of the Associated Press, in a story on the peace process, offers this aside:

The fate of the roughly 4,000 prisoners held by Israel is one of the most emotional issues for Palestinians. They are generally seen as heroes — even when their crimes have involved killing Israeli civilians.

Menachem Begin and Yitzhak Shamir killed civilians in 1948 and later became prime ministers. Ehud Olmert was prime minister when he authorized the killing of civilians in Gaza. Ehud Barak was a former prime minister when he did the same. Tzipi Livni was a government minister when she justified the killing of civilians. Some of these people are heroes in Israel. But in our media, the sword only cuts one way.

Philip Weiss

Philip Weiss is Founder and Co-Editor of Mondoweiss.net.

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26 Responses

  1. Bill in Maryland on April 18, 2012, 10:53 am

    Excellent point Phil. But can you imagine the hue and cry if the AP actually did provide context, and mentioned the civilian blood on Israeli heroes’ hands? We Americans are kept in the dark through the vigilance and energy of Israel’s defenders over here.

  2. seafoid on April 18, 2012, 11:08 am

    They celebrate death. We celebrate life

  3. dimadok on April 18, 2012, 11:18 am

    You are some piece of work- somehow you’ve managed to compare civilian casualties during war conflict to the deliberate targeting of civilian population, regardless of absence of any military activity happening. Good one- on the eve of the Remembrance Day in Israel.

    • annie on April 18, 2012, 11:27 am

      Good one- on the eve of the Remembrance Day in Israel.

      shwang. it’s still early here, will you be slinging that accusation around, milking it all day?

      • dimadok on April 18, 2012, 11:33 am

        Sod off, Annie. It makes a perfect sense and I did not forced Phil to post on that topic today.

      • annie on April 18, 2012, 12:21 pm

        point taken dim. just wondering if you’ll find a little space in your remembering to appreciate these people:

        http://mondoweiss.net/2012/04/israeli-celebrity-says-she-enjoyed-video-of-idf-attacking-danish-activist-because-he-looked-like-a-nazi.html/comment-page-1#comment-443857

        one of the largest actions of collective resistance to repression in the countries occupied by Nazi Germany. As a result of the rescue and Danish intercession on behalf of the 5% of Danish Jews who were deported to Theresienstadt transit camp in Bohemia, over 99% of Denmark’s Jewish population survived the Holocaust.

        meanwhile, on the eve of the Remembrance Day in Israel, the army radio is hosting a bigot comparing Danes to nazis.

        do you plan on chastising them as well? or just phil. because there is a thread at the link ready and waiting for your condemnation..

      • dimadok on April 18, 2012, 12:26 pm

        She didn’t say anything about all Danes and their kin-she said that this episode makes her feel somehow avenged for the Holocaust horrors and helplessness that we, Jewish people, feel every time we think about what had happened there. There were lots of good citizens of Denmark but there were bad as well-the memories of both are still alive in Yad vaShem memorial.

      • Hostage on April 18, 2012, 1:07 pm

        There were lots of good citizens of Denmark but there were bad as well-the memories of both are still alive in Yad vaShem memorial.

        How convenient that you’ve got a State-sponsored memorial to bad citizens of Denmark where you can vicariously pick your scabs within clear sight of Deir Yassin. When do you suppose that museum will be opening-up?

      • Mooser on April 18, 2012, 1:24 pm

        “There were lots of good citizens of Denmark but there were bad as well-“

        Dimmy, you don’t know a goddam thing about what went on in Denmark during WW2. Why not just admit it and stop making a fool of yourself?

      • eljay on April 18, 2012, 1:25 pm

        >> … she said that this episode makes her feel somehow avenged for the Holocaust horrors and helplessness that we, Jewish people, feel every time we think about what had happened there.

        If a Palestinian were to smash an unarmed Israeli civilian in the face with an assault rifle, would you approve of other Palestinians praising his action because it permits them to feel somehow avenged for the Nakba horrors and helplessness that they, Palestinian people, feel every time they think about what Israelis did – and what Israelis continue to do – to them?

        Or are you just being your usual, hypocritical self?

      • MHughes976 on April 18, 2012, 1:27 pm

        It is sometimes said that it was pressure from Niels Bohr that played a crucial part, inducing the King of Sweden to announce over the radio that Danish refugees would be admitted. The Swedes had been less forthcoming, though not entirely unhelpful, to Jewish refugees from Norway.

      • annie on April 18, 2012, 1:59 pm

        I did not forced Phil to post on that topic today.

        phil didn’t post on that topic dim, you brought it up.

        She didn’t say anything about all Danes and their kin

        lest we forget

        After the fifth time I say: “show me again. Can I see it again?”
        Now, I want to say things precisely. People are talking about – I really want to be very precise.
        First of all, there’s a certain something in the image, of the Jew wearing his yarmulke [religious hat], who looks, you know, like one of the householders in [Jewish] town, and standing against him is the golden-haired Dane, with the Hitler-Jugend look to him.

        so it’s only golden-haired danes, with their Hitler-Jugend looks, who might be offended. thanks for clearing that up.

      • dimadok on April 19, 2012, 8:30 am

        I haven’t said a word approving his actions

    • eljay on April 18, 2012, 11:35 am

      >> You are some piece of work- somehow you’ve managed to compare civilian casualties during war conflict to the deliberate targeting of civilian population …

      You Zio-supremacist types are some piece of work, too. You’re constantly proclaiming that Israel is at war with the Palestinians, but then you turn around and insist that only the Israeli side gets to claim murder as “casualites during war conflict”.

      • MHughes976 on April 18, 2012, 1:36 pm

        In the case of declared war between states and in the case of uprisings, acts enforcing existing authority and so on the questions are the same. Is there justice in the cause? Is the means used reasonably proportionate to the end sought? Are there reasonable efforts to limit damage to non-combatants?

    • seafoid on April 18, 2012, 11:44 am

      Dim

      I was thinking of buying this book

      The Sabra: The Creation of the New Jew
      By Oz Almog

      before the sabras disperse into the diaspora.

      • dimadok on April 18, 2012, 12:29 pm

        There are so many different stories in modern Israel- being Sabra is just a part of them.

    • Mooser on April 18, 2012, 12:30 pm

      Hey dimmy, where’s all our “liberal Zionists”? What did you do with them? Since that video of the assualt on the cyclist it’s you and OlegR out there by yourselves!
      Where are all the “liberal Zionists” to explain the video to us.
      But don’t worry, DimOne! I fully understand and appreciate your distaste for the settlers and ultras and Rabbis, too.
      Gosh, you poor moderate, normal Israelis must feel so all alone.

  4. Bumblebye on April 18, 2012, 11:24 am

    And I’m sure NYT among others never makes mention of the terrorist background of so many Sinn Fein ministers when they visit. One man’s terrorist, etc.

  5. Hostage on April 18, 2012, 11:34 am

    Ehud Barak was a former prime minister when he did the same.

    He served as Prime Minister from 1999 to 2001. The UN Human Rights Commission fact finding mission and special rapporteur reports in 2000 noted widespread systematic and gross violations of human rights, in particular mass killings and collective punishments, that constituted war crimes and crimes against humanity. — See E/CN.4/RES/S-5/1 19 October 2000 http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/5E0A5C4A07784BC885256A0200645731

  6. rensanceman on April 18, 2012, 12:24 pm

    Dimadot: In your Zionist curriculae, are there not several chapters on the Zionist massacres of innocent civilians? Of entire villages being bulldozed after all inhabitants slaughtered? Does Deir Yassin ring a bell? At least you demonstrated a love for life by planting beautiful trees on those sites to suck up the blood. Are you not familiar with the Nakba? Over 750,000 were forcibly removed (or were threatened with death) from their homes and villages, their land seized? These were civilians who now live in squalid camps or outdoor prisons. Zionist are their existential threat.

  7. DSisken on April 18, 2012, 12:36 pm

    It should also be emphasized that Federman’s assumption that those 4,000 Palestinian prisoners are guilty of involvement in the killing of Israelis is flat wrong. A large number are political detainees, who have committed no violence at all.

    • marc b. on April 18, 2012, 1:37 pm

      precisely, dsisken. many imprisoned for months or years haven’t even been charged with a crime. why not incorporate that qualifier into the article?

      The fate of the roughly 4,000 prisoners held by Israel is one of the most emotional issues for Palestinians, particularly since many prisoners have never been charged with a crime.

      wouldn’t fit the palestinians as murderers narrative apparently.

  8. Sumud on April 18, 2012, 4:51 pm

    Phil you left out the Butcher of Beirut, Sharon.

    He was involved in a civilian massacres in the 50s, then again in the 80s at Sabra & Shatilla, and then as PM during the 2nd intifadah – recall the IDF fired something like a million projectiles in the first few weeks after his visit [provocation] at Al Aqsa Mosque.

  9. AJM on April 18, 2012, 10:40 pm

    “even when their crimes have involved killing Israeli civilians”

    Wikileaks: “According to the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs and the Anti-Defamation League, a total of 1,194 Israelis and foreigners were killed and 7,000 wounded between September 2000 and August 2010 by Palestinian terror attacks (most of them during 2000–2005 Second Intifada); while more than 3,000 Israelis have been killed and 25,000 have been wounded as a result of Palestinian violence and hostile enemy action (without including wars) since the establishment of the state of Israel in 1948 until today.”

    4000 prisoners, 3000 civilian deaths since 1948, or roughly one 9/11 in 64 years. Tragic though these deaths are, the article makes it sound like most prisoners are killers. Just one look at the numbers reveals how exaggerated the tragic but relatively low death toll is, and how small the minority of prisoners with blood on their hands must be.

  10. Talkback on April 19, 2012, 8:14 am

    Irgun (Etzel) and Lehi members received “Service ribbons awarded for activity in the struggle for the establishment of Israel.”
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_military_decorations#Service_ribbons

    A lot of streets and places are named after Menachem Begin. But to my surprise (or not) most streets are named after the fascist Jebotinsky.
    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3476622,00.html

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