Zell told me that American Jews must alert other Jews to the threat Barack Obama poses by failing to counteract the global “delegitimization” of Israel. I challenged him on this point and he agreed to discuss Jewish identity with me.
In the conversation above, he says that he moved to the occupied territories because of concerns about American Jewish identity. “We need to be separate,” he said. Rather than allow our identities to become “diluted” in America, we need to maintain a “separate stream.” The world is “hostile” to Jewish values, Zell went on, Iran intends to destroy Jews; and Israel’s Palestinian and Arab neighbors “don’t want us here” and will seize the opportunity to “drive us out.”
All this in spite of the fact that the “miracle” of Israel has fostered Palestinian growth, he said. Why then the hue and cry about Palestinian conditions? Because, he said, Arabs only want to live with Jews if Jews are second-class citizens…
Even if I take a different view on Jewish identity – after all, Jewish achievement surged after the Haskalah, which was all about Westernizing which in turn requires you to leave the ghetto Zell so badly wants to go back to – I can still respect someone’s view who essentially wants to live a seperate life with only Jews.
It’s neither illegal or immoral. The problem is when that’s based on bulldozing other people’s homes, and when they react, say that the ‘world is against us’.
Also, his separatism isn’t based on a true love for Judaism rather than it is around a very fearful view of the world. It’s not a man open to change or embracing the fullest intellectual breadth he can; it’s a man running back into the corner, fearful of every stranger and of every shadow.
If this is the Judaism he longs to, then how can he be surprised that most of us begun to leave that tortured view(many, though, half-heartedly) centuries ago?
Philip, the multi-cultural experiment in Euorpe has failed. The melting pot of America is seeing more and more realize that there is a need to maintain religious identity. Your own choice to marry a non-Jew creates a problem for your own kids if they ever want to choose Judusim as their road in life. The Reform movement does not think far ahead. Whoever drumbed it into your head that it is a bad thing to cultivate and grow, or at least maintain a specific identity, has lead you astray. The one world, everyone must be equal thing, is both unobtainable and dangerous. It saddens many that you, and many like you, feel a need to apologize for being Jewish.
Marc Zell spoke very well. I am surprised that you published this interview. If you think you are trying to highlight some negative aspect of Jewish thinking, you came of second best.
Well, that was a disconcerting experience — I found myself liking and respecting Marc Zell as a person, while strongly disagreeing with his views. I admire the way he handled some tough questions from Phil (and I thought Phil handled the interview with impressive finesse). What a pity that most Jewish neoconservatives in the United States can’t make as positive an impression as Zell. And of course Christian Zionists aren’t nearly in the same league as Zell intellectually — they don’t really get Jewishness (particularly the “thoughtfulness” component of Jewishness).
But: I still think that Zell is backing a losing cause and is on the wrong track from a strategic/world historical perspective. What I find interesting, however, is that I get the impression that he might be willing to think about arguments which challenge his fundamental beliefs in a serious way.
With regard to Israeli PR/hasbara/branding methods: Zell could provide some good tips — don’t shout; don’t be overbearing; be thoughtful; make your best effort to listen to opposing views. That approach helps generate some sympathy for your position — or at least doesn’t completely alienate those who disagree with you.
What is the difference between this and fascism?
Me, I like Jews, and want each one of them to live as he or she pleases. I also trust them (well, as long as they are not Zionists, of course) to know how much Jewishness they need, how much Jewish/non-Jewish association they need, how much Jewish learning they want, how much Jewish observance they need, and who they need to love.
And since they are (like the rest of you sons-of-bitches) my brothers and sisters, I want them to be in charge of their own lives.
Seems like a lot of people here don’t think Jews can be trusted to do the right thing, if left to themselves. I thought we were supposed to be smart?
And as far as the implicit fantasy that you will be in charge of, and not oppressed by, a seperate “Jewish community” it is to laugh. Do you think they would approve of your posting here?