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Netanyahu may require DNA tests to prove immigrants have a Jewish ‘bloodline’

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Wow, Zionism just gets more disturbing. The Times of Israel

“Prime Minister’s Office says would-be immigrants from former Soviet Union may be asked to prove Jewish bloodline”

A number of people from the former Soviet Union wishing to immigrate to Israel could be subjected to DNA testing to prove their Jewishness, the Prime Minister’s Office said Sunday.

The policy was reported in Maariv on Monday, one day after the Israeli paper revealed that a 19-year-old woman from the former Soviet Union was required to take the test to qualify for a Birthright Israel trip. 

The Prime Minister’s Office confirmed that many Jews from the FSU who were born out-of-wedlock can be required to bring DNA confirmation of Jewish heritage in order to be allowed to immigrate as a Jew.

Philip Weiss

Philip Weiss is senior editor of and founded the site in 2005-06.

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91 Responses

  1. lyn117 on August 3, 2013, 3:43 pm

    Yay! Something to laugh about

    • FreddyV on August 4, 2013, 7:52 am

      Dunno about laugh. If this becomes criteria for citizenship, I can apply. My grandfather was Jewish.

      Although I can see a major flaw in this. In a reverse of the Nurenberg Laws it means that those genetically Jewish but of another faith could become citizens. If you take Arabs in Israel / Palestine and surrounding nations alone, you’d almost definitely decimate a Jewish majority in Israel.

      How embarrassing……

  2. just on August 3, 2013, 3:49 pm

    The “chosen people”. As bad as Hitler.

    How racist and frightening.

    • Scott on August 3, 2013, 4:41 pm

      Actually not as bad.

      • Taxi on August 4, 2013, 4:40 am

        Tell that to a Palestinian, Scott.

      • Sumud on August 4, 2013, 1:22 pm

        Israel is currently on a path to a very very dark place.

        Read over Gregory Stanton’s “Eight Stages of Genocide” and you can see extremists in Israel are well along the way in various categories.

        I don’t discount an “all or nothing” attempt at genocide by zionists in Israel and the occupied Palestinians territories as they come to understand that apartheid Israel cannot last.

        Do you think anybody would have believed you if in 1935 you said the nazis will exterminate 6 million jews within the decade…?

        The US has been directly and indirectly responsible for the death of about 2 million Iraqis since the first Gulf War in the early 90s, and they have largely gotten away with it.

        Don’t be naive about what Israel will try and get away with.

  3. Stephen Shenfield on August 3, 2013, 4:02 pm

    For the sake of equity and consistency, the DNA test should be applied as soon as possible to every single inhabitant of all territories under Israeli control. “Jews” thereby found to be genetically bogus can then be expelled (perhaps dumped over the open border with Syria in the Golan). Palestinians found to be genetically Jewish can be converted to Judaism, by force if necessary, and reclassified as Israeli Jews.

    • Anonymous on August 3, 2013, 4:23 pm


    • PeaceThroughJustice on August 3, 2013, 4:29 pm

      I see what you’re saying. :) But what’s all this about converting to Judaism? There’s never been a requirement that citizens of the Jewish state must follow Judaism. It’s been about bloodlines from the start.

      • Stephen Shenfield on August 4, 2013, 10:45 am

        Who is a Jew for Zionist purposes is a very complicated matter. Tomes have been written on it. The criteria are a mixture of racial and religious. If you’re born Jewish but don’t practice Judaism that’s still OK, but if you have embraced some other religion you lose your rights as a “Jew” despite your bloodlines. There was a precedent-setting court case in which a Christian monk of Jewish descent was denied citizenship (Father Daniel). Genetic testing provides additional potential for controversy, confusion and chaos, so perhaps it will help undermine the whole absurd system.

        In the Soviet period claiming to be Jewish was virtually the only way to emigrate. This led to a situation portrayed in the following anecdote. The KGB is interviewing a Jew who has applied to go to Israel with his family. The Jew says: “To be honest, I don’t want to go there myself, but my relatives insist.” The KGB man replies: “Well, to hell with those Zionists! Let them go to their Israel! You can stay here.” To this the Jew replies: “They can’t go if I don’t go. I’m the only Jew in the family.”

    • Eva Smagacz on August 3, 2013, 6:12 pm

      I like that!

      Especially as the science is still better at excluding blood relationships, rather than including them. But does that mean Netanyahoo could end up back in Poland? Look at this potato nose……! Is may not be scienifically accurate but it’s visually compelling!

      I sincerely hope he does not speak polish and will not try continue his political career there!

      [/sarcasm off]

  4. MHughes976 on August 3, 2013, 4:50 pm

    There was a French film of the 70s, called Monsieur Klein, which wasn’t that good but began with an unforgettable scene of Parisian doctors in WW2 years carrying out tests for Jewishness. There was and is no scientific basis for those tests and cannot be. The film scene was in its quiet way, with its perverted science and professionalism turned to heartless brutality, utterly horrific. So maybe these scenes will be enacted again.

  5. JohnAdamTurnbull on August 3, 2013, 4:55 pm

    Isn’t it cheaper to just measure their skulls?

  6. Brown-Eyed Girl on August 3, 2013, 5:12 pm

    According to Shlomo Sand, (I first heard about his books: “The Invention of the Jewish People” and “The Invention of the Land of Israel” ) there is no such thing as a Jewish bloodline. Geneticists have not found a definitive “Jewish gene,” so what exactly is Netanyahu looking for?? Proof of extreme whiteness?

    • Daniel Rich on August 4, 2013, 3:49 am

      @ Brown-Eyed Girl,

      Q: … so what exactly is Netanyahu looking for??

      R: In order to build hurdles one needs material to work with.

    • Tuyzentfloot on August 4, 2013, 3:12 pm

      there is no such thing as a Jewish bloodline. Geneticists have not found a definitive “Jewish gene,

      There’s no common bloodline tying it all together over 20 centuries. But finding links to people who come from the same location and who who have been accepted as being fully jewish is a very different job. In theory that’s feasible.

  7. Fredman on August 3, 2013, 5:28 pm

    Someone remind me again why some of our ancestors left Germany?

    • Don on August 4, 2013, 9:50 am

      Good point, Fredman.

      What I (as a non-Jew) don’t understand is…just how traumatized were Jews post- WWII to now impose on themselves the racist craziness that others forced on them in the past. I find it utterly bewildering.

      • Stephen Shenfield on August 4, 2013, 11:16 am

        The Zionists invented their version of “racist craziness” well before WWII. The trauma inflicted by the Nazis made most Jews (and many non-Jews) more vulnerable to Zionist manipulation, but that wasn’t an active and conscious process of “imposing the same racist craziness on themselves” — it was more like being swept along on a tide.

        Also, to the extent that the Nazis did facilitate Zionization of the Jews, it wasn’t only through trauma. Jews too were inevitably affected by Nazi indoctrination and internalized the message that they were aliens in their countries of residence. That made it easier for the Zionists to press home the same message.

      • Fredman on August 4, 2013, 1:23 pm

        Zionists never wander far from their roots.

        > The Zionist organisations and the leadership of the Yishuv (the Jewish community in Palestine) distanced themselves from any form of mass protest or boycott to avoid creating obstacles to the new arrangements. Even before the conclusion of the Haavarah Agreement, such “co-operation” sometimes took bizarre forms. Thus, in early 1933, Baron Leopold Itz Edler von Mildenstein, a man who a few years later was to become chief of the Jewish section of the SD (the Sicherheitsdienst, or security service, the SS intelligence branch headed by Reinhard Heydrich), was invited along with his wife to tour Palestine and to write a series of articles for Goebbels´s Der Angriff. And so it was that the Mildensteins, accompanied by Kurt Tuchler, a leading member of the Berlin Zionist Organisation, and his wife, visited Jewish settlements in Eretz Israel. The highly positive articles, entitled “A Nazi Visits Palestine,” were duly published, and, to mark the occasion, a special medallion cast, with a swastika on one side and a Star of David on the other.

        Consenting Elites, Threatened Elites, Friedlander, 1997

      • Don on August 4, 2013, 5:11 pm

        Thanks, Stephen. I was not aware of that. I think I need to read some serious history about Zionism.

      • Don on August 4, 2013, 5:15 pm

        Thanks also to you, Fredman. I think your link is to some pretty serious history.

      • SQ Debris on August 4, 2013, 10:25 pm

        Shefield, “The Zionists invented their version of “racist craziness” well before WWII”

        Herzl’s “Der Judenstaat,” 1896, predates Hitler’s “Mein Kampf” by 29 years. Both texts seem to have arisen from the same roots as their arguments rest on essentially the same premise: that segregation is the only viable solution to perceived threats from other ethnic groups. Interestingly, both authors were Austrian.

      • SQ Debris on August 4, 2013, 10:31 pm

        Fredman re: “A Nazi Visits Palestine.” There is an interesting documentary on the Mildenstein family titled The Flat that is available on demand through Amazon. Probably Netflix as well.

  8. American on August 3, 2013, 5:49 pm

    Good, the crazier this cult gets the better.
    Let them hang themselves.

  9. justicewillprevail on August 3, 2013, 6:28 pm

    Ha ha. There is no DNA test for ‘Jewishness’. How can there be for a social/cultural construct? Is Yahoo a believer in eugenics? If there is a test for the inheritance of DNA markers which belong to groups of people indigenous to the region, then most Palestinians would pass with ease, whilst many Jewish israelis wouldn’t.
    One can only assume they mean a ‘grandparent’ test, an arbitrary ‘rule’ which Israel has tried to implement to give Jewishness a pseudo-scientific basis – a convenient fiction in order to give legal privileges such as ‘right of return’ to one social group over others. It is a self-justifying ruse which means nothing more than ‘people like us’. If Yahoo wants to dabble in 19th Century concepts of race, then he should examine in whose company he will find himself.

  10. American on August 3, 2013, 7:56 pm

    Is there such a thing a ‘strictly’ Jewsh DNA? As opposed to say DNA similarites between Egyptians and Syrians and so forth?
    I know zlich about DNA and genes except races can be identified by DNA test.
    But I cant see ‘all’ Jews as sharing the same DNA from one set of people in the ME.
    The original Jews had to be semites like the Arabs so Jews and Arabs would have to the same the DNA markers it seems to me. So how was the Jewish DNA ‘weaned away’ from the Arab semite DNA to give Jews a different DNA than non Jewish semites or a separate race?
    Let’s say a semite Jew migrated to Asia and married an Asian would that produce a pure jewish DNA in their children?….what about the Asian DNA in their children?
    I am not sure but I think read that in mixed race children the DNA of both races would show up.
    So what is the deciding factor for Jewish DNA?
    I havent read any of the studies around this but it may be that the ones doing them. if they find any semite DNA at all, even mxed wth other DNA, then declare it Jewish DNA….but that still doesnt make Jews a race ‘on their own’ because the DNA was from being a semite just as Arabs are.

    • Taxi on August 4, 2013, 4:46 am

      The original hebrews of old were arabs: arabs who were the first to practice judaism, against the tide of Arab paganism.

      In saudi arabia they practice virginity tests. In israel they practice… well, Apartheid.

      • piotr on August 5, 2013, 12:14 am

        It seems that in this case Israel is getting a bum rap. The requirement here is to prove paternity, the only reason to claim the eligibility. The paternity is far from obvious because the birth was registered when she was 3 years old and her father was in USA.

        What is more weird is that would she immigrate to Israel, most probably she would not be eligible to be married (except for the recognition of a marriage conducted abroad), not eligible to be buried at official cemetery for soldiers (if she died while performing military service), not eligible to live in a number of communities that keep non-Jews out and so on.

        There are also yet more bizarre stories of Arab citizens of Israel forced to perform DNA tests to prove that they are who they say they are. In one case, it was to get a new identity card for a woman who always stayed in Israel.

  11. Citizen on August 3, 2013, 7:58 pm

    Hey, how come I didn’t see this news on MSNBC?

  12. American on August 3, 2013, 8:16 pm

    Here’s another queston. All the Jews I know except one couple married gentile women. So their children do not have the ‘Jewish Mother’ requirement or standard Israel says is necessary to be Jewish and they would have mixed DNAs.
    So would Israel let them have citizenship?

    • piotr on August 6, 2013, 9:25 pm

      I know an agnostic Jewish girl who married a Jewish convert to Buddhism. I never ask how are they raising the children.

      • miriam6 on August 6, 2013, 10:45 pm

        [email protected] said:

        I know an agnostic Jewish girl who married a Jewish convert to Buddhism. I never ask how are they raising the children.

        I really like this comment.

        Piotr, my first reaction to your comment was this ;

        PLEASE Piotr risk being nosey on my behalf and ask them!!
        I’m intrigued and want to know more..
        Then I thought well , – apparently the Buddhists don’t believe in a God so an atheist Jew and a Jewish convert to Buddhism would have that common ground .

        Apparently Jewish converts to Buddhism are known as Jewbu’s / Jubu’s /Buju’s !( or it could be that Wikipedia is kidding me on ) ;

        Since most Buddhists do not consider the Buddha to have been a “god”, Jewish Buddhists do not consider Buddhist practice to be “worship”.

        In addition, many Buddhists (particularly Theravada Buddhists) do not “worship” the Buddha but instead “revere” and “express gratitude” for the Buddha’s (and all buddhas’) accomplishment and compassionate teaching (that is, discovering and teaching the Dharma so others might be released from suffering and achieve Nirvana).
        In Mahayana Buddhism (the dominant form of Buddhism in the world today), the Trikaya (three bodies) Doctrine, and praying to Buddha as savior in Pure Land Buddhism significantly blurs the issue for Jews of whether Buddhism is a religion and whether Buddha is considered a God.[citation needed]

        This writer’s take on Buddhism is that in Tibet at least , the practice of Buddhism looks very different to what a western observer and those western celebrities’ who claim to practice Buddhism might imagine it entails…

        I’m also fascinated by the fact that this same article appears on two websites which on the face of it at least couldn’t be more different in terms of philosophy.

        One site appears to be right-wing and libertarian and believes in free minds and free markets , – the other website is concerned with all matters hippy and transcendental;

        Offering multiple perspectives from many fields of human inquiry that may move all of us toward a more integrated understanding of who we are as conscious beings…

        However the writer says;

        The reality couldn’t be more different. The first devout Buddhists I encountered looked neither healthy nor happy.
        They were walking from their villages in southern Tibet to Jokhang Temple in Lhasa, Tibetan Buddhism’s holiest site, and the journey had taken them nearly three months.
        Which isn’t surprising considering that with every third or fourth step they took, they got down on their knees and then fully prostrated themselves on the ground, lying flat on their bellies and burying their faces in the dirt, before getting back up, taking a few more steps, and doing the painful prostration thing again.
        It looked life-zappingly exhausting.
        They moved at a snail’s pace. Their foreheads were stained grey from such frequent, unforgiving contact with the bruising earth.
        They wore wooden planks on their hands, which made a deathly clatter every time they hurled themselves downwards.
        I’d like to see Jennifer Aniston try this.
        Tibetan Buddhism sans latte.
        You soon realize that no Tibetan Buddhist sits cross-legged on cushions all day long while staring into space and thinking about the universe. No, worshipping Buddha is a full-on physical workout.
        At the Lamaling Temple on a hillside in Nyingchi County in south-east Tibet, I saw women in their 50s doing the prostration thing, like an archaic version of a Jane Fonda workout..cont…

        Here is a wonderful photograph from the second site showing the Buddhist monks prostrating them selves exactly as O’Neill describes ;

        BTW I still wish you could ask the couple you mentioned and report back here..

        This nosey parker wants to know !

  13. CloakAndDagger on August 3, 2013, 8:29 pm

    And what would the DNA prove? European descent? Or can Netanyahu demonstrate he has ME origins (sometime after the original migration out of Africa)? The Palestinians would have more “jewish” genes than the invading Europeans, I would think.

  14. talknic on August 3, 2013, 8:29 pm

    A blow to genuine converts

    • wondering jew on August 3, 2013, 9:20 pm

      This policy is probably not designed to disqualify genuine converts, but to establish Jewish kinship when beliefs are irrelevant and kinship is the key and normal (legal/paperwork) kinship ties are lacking.

    • Yitzgood on August 4, 2013, 3:29 am

      A blow to genuine converts

      I don’t think so. It seems to be talking about people who claim to be Jewish by birth but who might not be correctly identifying their parents. (DNA testing is useful for paternity suits and things like that, no?) That’s why it talks about people “born out-of-wedlock.” There is no mainstream Zionist notion and certainly no halachic notion of a Jewish identity as something that can be definitively established through a DNA test.

      • Cliff on August 4, 2013, 7:19 am

        So if people just convert, then PM Yahoo won’t mind said Jews taking up land and citizenship?

      • Ellen on August 4, 2013, 7:26 am


        you say, there is no mainstream Zionist notion of a Jewish identity as something that can be definitively established through a DNA test?

        There is, indeed, and that is there so much research on seeking the Jewish Gene funded in and out of Israel.

        mainstream Zionist really believe in ideas of the Levi Gene, the Kohanim Gene, the Cohen Gene. (Yet this sort of race and politically motivated “research” and predictable “results” is starting to become an embarrassment among all serious scientists, including many Israeli scientists. )

        And here, just two years ago, the Israeli Minister declares “There is a Jewish Gene”

        I won’t go on, but point is, mainstream Zionism actively pushes the idea of genetic Judaism — ideas of race through genes.

        Where have we heard that before? Where does it lead?

      • Yitzgood on August 4, 2013, 11:04 am

        Ellen, I didn’t watch the first video, but I did see the description that comes up when you click on the link. Do you understand that there is a difference between using genetic studies of populations to research historical questions and giving someone a DNA test and saying “You’re Jewish” (or not) based on the results? Again, the Times of Israel article talks about people born out of wedlock, which suggests using DNA testing the way it is used in paternity suits. Yishai sounds like a religious person who thinks genetic studies prove halacha. I notice that his statements elicited laughter from the audience. “Zionism” isn’t anything an Israeli official ever said or thought.

      • talknic on August 4, 2013, 10:39 am

        Point taken

  15. W.Jones on August 3, 2013, 9:00 pm

    Isn’t Palestinian DNA sometimes indistinguishable from what might be labeled Jewish DNA?

    • Ellen on August 4, 2013, 7:34 am

      What is “Palestinian DNA?”

    • Ecru on August 4, 2013, 8:55 am

      From what I understand – pretty much. Palestinians as a genetic population cluster within M.E Jewish populations.

      • Ellen on August 4, 2013, 10:47 am

        Right, population clusters that can be observed. Sometimes genetic markers found in some clusters are found in other populations. I.e. there is a marker found in parts of the Iberian peninsula that is(was) also found along the west coast of Ireland. Indicates population movement.

        But no such thing as Iberian or Palestinian, DNA. And the deeper we look into the human genome, it becomes evident that there is even no such thing as race.

        More and more evidence indicates that all humans on the planet originated out of Africa and moved on….mutating, as needed for survival, along the way.

        And just as in all biological systems, those that “cross potentate” prevailed and survived. Mono-cultures become quickly prone to diseases and die out.

      • libra on August 4, 2013, 4:38 pm

        Ellen And just as in all biological systems, those that “cross potentate” prevailed and survived. Mono-cultures become quickly prone to diseases and die out.

        Ellen, how do new species arise?

      • Ellen on August 5, 2013, 3:36 am

        @libra, are you teasing, or going somewhere interesting with your question — especially in light of Zio fascination with theoretical blood lines?

        I’m no biologist, but the idea of species is a human construct, and not clear cut in nature. A new species arises when an isolated population mutates (or evolves) to the point where it cannot produce offspring with the “parent” population.

        Hmmm, could Zionism, practiced to it’s logical conclusion produce a new species?

  16. Krauss on August 3, 2013, 9:53 pm

    And Im guessing most “liberal” Jewish organizational heads, Foxman, Ben-Ami and so on, will have nothing but applause for this policy.

  17. RoHa on August 3, 2013, 11:18 pm

    Must have Levi’s genes?

  18. ziusudra on August 3, 2013, 11:42 pm

    World Jewry itself is of Khazarian/European DNA.
    Reported by Israeli Geneticist Dr. Eran Elhaik of Dec. 2012
    in the Haaretz interview. Hence Judaism is now a universal
    Religion. Let them in, they’ll be holier than the Sabras.

  19. yishai on August 4, 2013, 1:40 am

    I’m remembering the outlawed Journal article, published and then removed, that found that Palestinians were genetically as or more Jewish than most Jews. Not to mention the priestly/Cohen status of Lemba in Southern Africa, at rates equal to or higher than almost any other global Jewish population. The line between anti-racist genetics and eugenics is really interesting, and really thin…

    But I actually think I like this if it is applied to Russians, many of whom are just cashing a SERIOUS white privilege card and getting free housing and business loans, without even a blink, in part of a major push since the 80s to whiten and ashkenazi-ize Israel, successfully I might add, while also struggling to keep a Jewish “majority” in the various occupied lands. The eugenics approach to Ethiopians and Arab Jews are well known. Its time this was turned on white people, many of whom are not in fact Jewish, and used to even admit it in whispers that were tolerated because of the above mentioned demographic “needs.”

    • Xpat on August 4, 2013, 11:03 am

      “The eugenics approach to Ethiopians and Arab Jews are well known.”
      Would you provide references, for this.

      “Its time this was turned on white people, many of whom are not in fact Jewish, and used to even admit it in whispers that were tolerated because of the above mentioned demographic “needs.””

      The Russian immigration of the 90s was indeed a tool of the Israeli establishment to Ashkenize and “whiten” Israel. But these two wrongs don’t make a right. Why should these Russian immigrants pay the price for Israeli racism. And how does this second wrong benefit the victims of the first wrong: non-White Jews and, much more so, Palestinians.

    • miriam6 on August 5, 2013, 1:16 am

      Yishai @ said :

      The eugenics approach to Ethiopians and Arab Jews are well known.

      Other than relying on your gut prejudices where is your EVIDENCE supporting your claim ?

      • Djinn on August 6, 2013, 8:41 pm

        Take 2 minutes to google ethiopian + sterilize + Israel and you’ll find that this outrage has been written about extensively & was eventually admitted.

        Or continue to revel in your ignorance whatever floats your boat.

      • miriam6 on August 7, 2013, 7:07 pm

        Djinn see my comments about this subject on this thread;

        No matter how many times you repeat the hysterical sensationalist lie about sterilization it won’t come true you know.

        A misunderstanding about contraception that involves the administering of birth control jab that is only effective for THREEMONTHS does not amount to a campaign of sterilization which is a .Actual sterilization ( not a contraceptive jab effective for only three months)is a Permanent state of affairs.

        Don’t you understand what the meaning of sterilization actually means?

        Therefore no programme of sterilization can be said to have occurred since the women involved DID NOT become permanently infertile after the shots

  20. Justpassingby on August 4, 2013, 4:20 am

    How can anyone possibly say this regime is democratic?!

  21. Taxi on August 4, 2013, 4:51 am

    But who in their right minds would want to pretend to be a mideastern jew?

    Oleg, jon s, starofdavid, miriam? Yeah that’s right, I had temporary amnesia, you’ll forgive me. Some people will do anything for a free piece of land and a pair of shiny jackboots.

  22. eddymbeach on August 4, 2013, 5:19 am

    If I was a Christian and converted to Judaism would my DNA have changed?

  23. Talkback on August 4, 2013, 5:29 am

    Welcome to the State of Jewish bloodlines. Rassenschande could lead to the revocation of your citizenship.

  24. Citizen on August 4, 2013, 6:26 am

    Sample of comments under original article:

    Jack Garbuz · Top Commenter
    First of all, converts have to have been “converted” by the orthodox rabbinate to be accepted as Jews in Israel. Israel is, after all, the tribal homeland of the Jewish nation. However, it does allow non-Jewish spouses and children to accompany their Jewish parent. It also allows people labelled as “Jews” and persecuted as such as the Nazis did under their infamous Nuremberg Laws even if they were not Jews under Jewish Law. I think DNA analysis is a new tool and should be used to determine Jewish origins just as it is used to solve crimes and in paternity tests to prove who is the real father.
    Reply · Like · July 29 at 10:09am
    Jeffrey Marlowe· Top Commenter (signed in using Hotmail)
    To Hell with the Anti Israel brigade, we do not need others to define us, we know damn well who we are and proud of it . We are pound for pound the most talented and successful group on the planet. If that p*sses people off ,so be it. Shekoiach !! Am Yisrael Chai. !
    Reply · Like · July 29 at 10:58am

    • DissedStance on August 4, 2013, 5:05 pm

      From Wikipedia on hubris: “As for the pleasure in hubris, its cause is this:
      men think that by ill-treating others they make their own superiority greater”

      And then Nemesis takes Hubris by the hand…..

      • DissedStance on August 4, 2013, 5:26 pm

        Whoops–hubris is a concept, so it doesn’t have any hands :>)
        The above quote is attributed to Aristotle.

  25. amigo on August 4, 2013, 6:38 am

    Will the Bloodline have a Red Line.

    Will Nietanyahu stand on the UN podium and show us his ,”Jewish—not Jewish” illustration.

    Will he be willing to stand up and put his blood where his mouth is.

  26. Citizen on August 4, 2013, 6:49 am

    It seems Israel is heavy into DNA testing for health reasons, a side-effect of tribalism:

    The Ashkenazis are the most tested group.

  27. dottified on August 4, 2013, 7:09 am

    Actually, just FYI – while there is no DNA test for Jewishness, because the Ashkenazi Jews of Europe were so genetically isolated for hundreds of years it is possible to use genetic markers in order to tell approximately what percentage of a person’s DNA is Ashkenazi.

    “Some argue that there’s no such thing as Ashkenazi DNA, but companies like 23andMe and Family Tree DNA look for genetic “signatures” common in people known to have four Ashkenazi Jewish grandparents. The reference data come from research projects and from surveys of their own customers. Out of 23andMe’s 250,000 customers, about 11,000 have four Ashkenazi grandparents, Afarian says. Many more have one or two Ashkenazi grandparents.”

    I actually got my own DNA tested with 23andMe (it’s $99) and, unsurprisingly, since I have four Ashkenazi Jewish grandparents, 23andMe told me that 99.6% of my DNA is European, with 95.8% being Ashkenazi. (The other 3.7% is listed as “Nonspecific European”).

    Of course, all this stuff is fun to learn, but shouldn’t be used for political discrimination purposes as it is here.

    • Ellen on August 4, 2013, 11:09 am

      Companies like 23andMe play off the desire to know more about ourselves. But the information given is based on very faulty science. Markers they test for, for example, the BRCA1 gene (and variants of it) are identified to be relatively more common in the Ashkenazi Jewish population cluster. If you have this marker does it tell you something about your ancestors?

      This gene sequence, also known as a Ashkenazi Gene, which is tested for by such companies to tell people from whence they came, is found in all populations, and also high frequency in a group of South West American Indians.

      We now hear less about the so-called Jewish Cohen Gene (except in Wikipedia) because it is a sequence that is frequently identified population groups that have remote, if any connection at all, to Jewish population clusters in Europe or the Middle East. In other words, it is found everywhere.

      This “stuff” might be fun to learn, but it is and will be used for bunk science, bad politics and population discrimination.

    • ziusudra on August 5, 2013, 6:53 am

      Greetings Dottifield,
      Only the early Judean Ancesters migrated to Greece & Rome starting 200BC.
      The called themselves Shephardi. Their places of learning in the 10th C.
      in German town such as Worms & Speyer were called Ashkenaz after the biblical
      figure. The Germans thought that they were Ashkenazi. Sephard was also a biblical figure. So many people today still have this misconception.
      That only 5K returned to Jerusalem 130 yrs after the babylonian sojourn in 456BC,
      they dropped Hebrew in 200BC because so few of them were left. They took up Aramaic. None ever learned to write in Hebrew because it first came about in 1K BC, but only in consonants. After 100BC the vowels of this solely liturgical language, like Latin, got its vowels. Hebrew was ne’er spoken in Europe.
      The pogroms & wanderings of Euro Jewry, ME & No. African gave them to miscegenize with the Khazarian converts, Mizrahi & Magreb Jews who ne’er left.
      This is no such remnent of ancient Semite DNA under World Jewry.
      They are in perpetual denial of Etnicity because it distracts from their ‘Homeland’
      bogus claim to Falesteena!

      • dottified on August 5, 2013, 9:35 am

        Hi everyone,

        Just to clarify – my comment earlier was ONLY about being able to tell if a person has ASHKENAZI Jewish ethnic heritage. I agree with everyone who has said that there is no specific gene for Jewishness. But the Ashkenazi Jews in Europe were genetically isolated from other Europeans for hundreds of years and therefore as a population developed higher and lower frequencies of certain genes i.e. Tay-Sachs and BRCA1. This is why they are genetically distinguishable as an ethnic group. Obviously no one gene will tell you whether a person has Ashkenazi heritage, but using something like 23andMe that maps variants of many, many genes, you can make comparisons at a bigger level.

        Also, none of that has anything to do with whether Ashkenazi Jews have ancient Semitic DNA (which is a different question that in my opinion is irrelevant anyway and I think it is ridiculous that the Israeli government uses that argument as a land claim).

        I wanted to make this point only because most modern European Jews/descendants of European Jews are Ashkenazi, and in the case of this Russian girl, using something like 23andMe would probably say whether she had Ashkenazi heritage or not and would cost $99 instead of $12,000.

      • James Canning on August 5, 2013, 2:39 pm

        Very interesting post.

      • Ellen on August 6, 2013, 6:11 pm

        dottifield, absolutely great point — it will cost you $99.00 with 23and me to find out that you have some gene(s) that are connected to what is called Ashkenazi instead of $12000 for all the Israeli Ziogentisology Russians must pay to prove their “bloodline?”

      • James Canning on August 5, 2013, 2:44 pm

        Very interesting indeed.

  28. Blank State on August 4, 2013, 8:30 am

    Why can’t they just ask them to say “quarter”?

  29. Ecru on August 4, 2013, 9:13 am

    And yet we’re still being told it’s “antisemitic” to say there are similarities between Zionism and Nazism. Nope, not really, it’s just honest.

  30. eGuard on August 4, 2013, 11:46 am

    And this detail: needed for would-be immigrants, just to qualify for a Birthright Israel trip.

  31. crone on August 4, 2013, 12:05 pm

    I guess the Pope should be tested to see if he’s really Catholic… and Obama? Should we test his DNA to see if he’s really a Democrat?

  32. James Canning on August 4, 2013, 1:53 pm

    Interesting piece.

    But Elizabeth Taylor surely could relocate in Israel, on grounds of her conversion to Judaism.

  33. James Canning on August 4, 2013, 1:54 pm

    Or Sammy David, Jr.

    Perhaps should say could have.

  34. Abdul-Rahman on August 4, 2013, 5:11 pm

    I guess “too bad” for these colonialist Zionist racialists that Israeli-American Johns Hopkins University geneticist Dr. Eran Elhaik ( has now demonstrated a clear and evident fact, that is only denied by Nazis and Zionists, that Judaism is a only a RELIGION not a supposed “race” (“race” itself being an unscientific social construct to start with, another fact that is only denied today by Nazis and Zionists). “The Missing Link of Jewish European Ancestry: Contrasting the Rhineland and the Khazarian Hypotheses”

    Gene study settles debate over origin of European Jews

    (AFP) – Jan 16, 2013

    A free copy of the original Haaretz article entitled “The Jewish People’s Ultimate Treasure Hunt” on December 28, 2012

    Excerpt of the interview with Dr. Eran Elhaik:

    The geneticist goes on to explain that, among the various groups of European and non-European Jews, there are no blood or family connections: “The various groups of Jews in the world today do not share a common genetic origin. We are talking here about groups that are very heterogeneous and which are connected solely by religion.”

    The bottom line, he claims, is that the “genome of European Jews is a mosaic of ancient peoples and its origin is largely Khazar.”

    • ziusudra on August 5, 2013, 7:09 am

      Greetings Abdul-Rahmen,
      Well said, Abdul.
      May I add that the terminologies that world Jewry uses is confusing, narcissistic, & solipsistic.
      They are unable to verbalize their identity because they deny their own Multi faceted ethnicity.
      They go by Jew, a subject of the last Kingdom of Judea.
      They were earlier, Israelites in their Kingdom of Israel.
      Even earlier, Hebronists in their Kingdom of Hebron.
      Before that they had their tribal names.
      Before that they were nomadic Semite People speaking an Afro/Asian language.
      In Europe they miscegenized with all, allover, including the Khazarians.
      In the ME & No. Africa, they miscegenized with the Mizrahi & Magreb.

    • goldmarx on August 5, 2013, 10:36 am

      Again with the Khazar nonsense?

      There have been several rebuttals published to Sand, Elhaik and the late UFO enthusiasit/suicide Arthur Koestler. Linguistically, the Yiddish spoken by Asheknazic Jews has no connection to the Turkic language spoken by the Khazars.

      • James Canning on August 6, 2013, 2:46 pm

        @goldmarx – – Isn’t Yiddish German? Even if the speakers were of Khazar descent? Partly.

      • Ecru on August 6, 2013, 4:11 pm

        Linguistically, the Yiddish spoken by Asheknazic Jews has no connection to the Turkic language spoken by the Khazars.

        You mean like the English you’re typing in has no connection to Hebrew and only a distant one to Yiddish? Descent is not limited by language, you might want to keep that in mind.

      • Ellen on August 6, 2013, 6:13 pm

        Yiddish is an old German dialect.

      • James Canning on August 6, 2013, 6:56 pm

        Middle High German (combine of several dialects, with add’l words from Slavic and Aramaic (and others).

      • ziusudra on August 7, 2013, 1:58 am

        Greetings Goldmarx,
        Didn’t all of us , immigrants to the US learn & speak English?
        Zio rebuttal verbally or literally is selfserving & proves nichts!
        There was but one Person called Ashkenaz. The Germans misunderstood the concept & called the Sephardi, Ashkenazi.
        The Sephardi were the only ones that migrated to Europe.
        World Jewry has a multitude of languages, customs in their
        diaspora in Europe, ME & No. Africa.
        Bist du blöd ( mishuga)?
        The hoards of Khazarians migrating to Germany, Poland & Russia
        in the 12th C. was under the guise of replicating the Euro. concept of
        Christianization of the ME. They, the Khazarians hoped to Judaise Euro. They came again in the 15th C. Both times, they were intoxicated with the Ashkenaz: ‘places of learning’ in Germany only.
        There is no Jewishness, no Hebrew (Person), no Israelite, Judean (Jew)
        Subjects no DNA,no Levi or Benjamine tribes,no Sephardi, no Ashkenaz, but only Israelis or People of the Jewish Religion same as in the US.
        PS Yiddish is comprised of mostly ‘Old’ German, Polish, Russian & the language Aramaic that they came to Euro. with.
        Hebrew died out in 200BC in Falesteena. All ancesters of the Judeans that stayed in Babylonia or No. Africa ne’er learned Hebrew.
        Speak to any no. African or Babylonian Judaist, they will tell you that they miscegenised with the Euro/Khazarians after the 12th & 15th Cs., who returned.

    • miriam6 on August 7, 2013, 1:11 am

      BTW Abdul – Rahman

      More from the beginning of Seth Frantzmann’s article in the JPost about the Return of the Khazar Myth;

      Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

      However, in the case of Elhaik, the evidence is not only weak and misleading, it is based on numerous sources that are not historical, instead employing conjectures and leaps in logic, as well as claims that cannot be substantiated.
      One of Elhaik’s very first claims, that “contemporary Eastern European Jews comprise the largest ethno-religious aggregate of modern Jewish communities, accounting for nearly 90% of over 13 million Jews worldwide” is said to be based on a publication by the United Jewish Communities in 2003, titled the “National Jewish Population Survey, 2000-01.”Except this source deals with the demographics of Jews in the United States.
      An inquiry with Dr. Elhaik resulted in a note that this was a mistake that would be corrected, and that the actual source should be Harry Ostrer’s 2001 paper in genetics, “A Genetic Profile of Contemporary Jewish Populations.”
      Except Ostrer wrote that “contemporary Jewry is comprised of ~13 million people… Among the Jews of the United States, ~90% are of Ashkenazi origin.”
      So right from the beginning Elhaik has made a basic flaw in his use of sources, one that was neither caught by the editors of Genome Biology and Evolution, nor the peer reviewers of his paper.
      Yet it is a claim that should have been caught, for most people who study Jews know that 90% of them are not Ashkenazi and their population is much more diverse than that presented by Elhaik.

      However, the real flaws in this new research are historical. The author claims a massive knowledge of history that has major implications for his findings…

      See this link and Frantzmann’s historical argument against Elhaik’s in my earlier comment.

      As for Sand, from whom Elhaik borrowed much of his false historical data about Caucasus peoples , – Elhaik also borrowed a lot of his so – called history from famous kook Arthur Koestler , who in turn relied for his so-called evidence on myths and legends as opposed to real historical fact.

      Haaretz has in recent weeks turned to a number of scholars from Israel and abroad, including historians and geneticists, and asked them what they thought of the new article. The historians refused to respond, arguing that they had no expertise in the field of genetics. For their part, the geneticists were unwilling to cooperate for other reasons. While some of them simply ignored the request from Haaretz, others claimed they were unfamiliar with the specific discipline of population research or too pressed for time to respond.The only scholar who agreed to give his opinion (and did so with great enthusiasm ) was Tel Aviv University professor of history Shlomo Sand.

      Sand himself cheerfully acknowledges he is entirely ignorant of genetic science (as well as of Jewish history as it so happens , – his field of expertise before he found fame was European history – NOT Jewish history)

      Sand has some tough words of criticism for geneticists looking for Jewish genes: “For an ignoramus like me, genetics had always appeared to be crowned with a halo – as a precise science that deals with quantitative findings and whose conclusions are irrefutable.”
      When he began reading articles on the subject of the Jews’ origin, he found he had been mistaken: “I discovered geneticists – Jewish geneticists – whose knowledge of history ended at what was necessary for their high-school matriculation exams.

      Which is how I would describe my knowledge of biology.

    • miriam6 on August 7, 2013, 7:17 am

      [email protected];

      Gene study settles debate over origin of European Jews

      However, the real flaws in this new research are historical. The author claims a massive knowledge of history that has major implications for his findings.

      “There are no records of Caucasus populations mass-migrating to Eastern and Central Europe prior to the fall of Khazaria.”

      The footnote for this is another genetic research study, but a claim like this requires historical knowledge of the Caucuses. In fact, the Caucuses were a place of great human movement from the 15th to 19th centuries. Cossacks, Circassians, Chechans, Tatars and numerous other groups roamed the region in the period, some of whom, like the Khazars, vanished to history.

      The author claims that his evidence shows that “Judaized Greco-Roman male-driven migration directly to Khazaria is consistent with historical demographic migrations and could have created the observed pattern.” Following in the footsteps of Tel Aviv University academic Shlomo Sand’s work, The Invention of the Jewish People, Elhaik claims “no Jewish historiography was produced from the time of Josephus Flavius (1st century CE) to the 19th century.”

      But the source, Sand, is not an expert on Jewish history in the period – his book, like Koester’s, was more a polemic.

      Elhaik goes further, noting that “the religious conversion of the Khazars encompassed all the Empire’s citizens and subordinate tribes and lasted for the next 400 years…the Judeo- Khazars fled to Eastern Europe and later migrated to Central Europe and admixing with the neighboring populations.”

      There is actually no evidence of this; the general view has been that only some of the Khazar elite converted to Judaism.

      Yet Elhaik even claims to know the details of the Judeo-Khazar life. “After the decline of their Empire, the Judeo-Khazars refugees sought shelter in the emerging Polish Kingdom and other Eastern European communities, where their expertise in economics, finances, and politics were valued.”

      The source for much of this is Koestler, passed off as fact with no mention that Koestler simply inferred most of it from his imagination and theories. The author argues that his study showed a remarkably “high genetic similarity” between Jews and Armenians, but not Georgians.

      In order to explain similarities between Jews and Druse, the author argues that the Druse have “Turkish-Southern Caucuses origins… the genetic similarity between European Jews and Druse therefore supports the Khazarian Hypothesis.”

      Yet the author is not a historian of the Druse, and has not investigated the Druse religion. He claims the Druse migrated to Syria and Palestine, but doesn’t bother to mention that they migrated from Egypt, not modern-day Turkey.

      Still, the author is convinced that the Druse-Jewish connection “should not be confused with a Semitic origin,” – as evidently the author knows, without having genetically tested the Druse, that they are not Semites or Arabs.

      Because the author believes his data shows that Jews are related to Armenians, he posits that “our findings support a largescale conversion scenario that influenced the majority of the [Khazar] population.”

      THE TROUBLING issue with Elhaik’s paper is that it was accepted for publication by an academic journal. It is a problem because it becomes part of the historical record, so that the Koestler thesis can now be said to be supported by “genetic evidence.”

      Commentators who have written about it now embrace the science as a “groundbreaking study.” Rev. Ted Pike posted an enthusiastic message on his blog noting that “new genetic research confirms Koestler’s Khazar theory.” Therefore, Pike concludes, the Jews “are proselytes who seized land in Palestine that never belonged to their true ancestors.”

      But what is equally disturbing is that even the genetic evidence Elhaik presents is unclear. He argues that modern-day Ashkenazi Jews share around 30% of their ancestry with modern-day people in the Caucuses, such as Armenians. From this he postulates that Jews and Armenians share Khazar ancestry.

      But one might equally conclude that in fact many Armenians are simply descended from Jews.

      Similarly with the Druse, rather than concluding that the Druse have a convoluted Caucuses ancestry, one could note that many Druse share some genetics with Jews – since Jews and Druse once lived in similar areas in the Middle East, such as Alexandria, where they both were significant populations in the 11th century.

      The author’s claim that there are “significantly smaller” genetic distances between Jews and Armenians and Georgians than between Jews and Palestinians, the Beduin and Jordanians, is based on the odd assumption that the Beduin in Jordan should necessarily share genetic material with Jews.

      Why would modern-day Palestinians be any better stand-ins for 1st century Jews than, say, modern Jews? Why would anyone assume the Jews and Beduin are related? The data presented also doesn’t appear to show “significant” differences, with scores of .234 and .2387 provided as evidence of “genetic distance” between Caucuses and Middle Eastern origins of Jewish populations– without an explanation of the significance of the scores (i.e what is the score of a Japanese person and an Icelander?). The author also doesn’t include a dummy variable or control for the fact that neither the Beduin or Armenians are good stand-ins for Jewish ancestry.

      If we think of the Elhaik study in another context, consider this: If one did a genetic study of African-Americans and white Americans and found that both of them share 30% of their ancestry with the British, one would not be correct in concluding that African-Americans have their origins in London.

      Yet the author has seemingly made this leap of logic.

      This points to the sad tragedy that due to an obsessive interest in the “true” origins of the Jewish people, all sorts of scientific norms are discarded in favor of embracing any wild theory.

      That Elhaik, not previously an expert on Jewish genetics or history, can publish an academic paper “proving” the origins of the Jews, is evidence of this tendency.

      • James Canning on August 7, 2013, 2:17 pm

        Wasn’t Lithuania the state open in in-migration of “Khazars”? When it stretched nearly to the Black Sea. Then merged with Poland. And the area later was incorporated into Russian Empire.

        All the empires in Black Sea region were multi-ethnic.

  35. James Canning on August 5, 2013, 2:45 pm


  36. Keith on August 6, 2013, 4:15 pm

    For those who flunk the DNA test, there is an appeal process. If you can show that you are closely related to a comedian, you have an 80% probability of being accepted.

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