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Israeli government tries to undo image of Pope at the wall

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Pope at the wall, from Al Rowwad

Pope at the wall, from Alrowwad culture and theater society

Update: Reuters reports that the Pope and Benjamin Netanyahu differed today over Jesus’s language.

“Jesus was here, in this land. He spoke Hebrew,” Netanyahu told Francis, at a public meeting in Jerusalem in which the Israeli leader cited a strong connection between Judaism and Christianity.

“Aramaic,” the pope interjected.

“He spoke Aramaic, but he knew Hebrew,” Netanyahu shot back.

Catholic Culture reports that the two men differed on two issues, the Aramaic question , and the wall.

Pope Francis and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu disagreed openly on two topics during their meeting on May 26.

Here are more pictures of the Pope at the wall yesterday. Here’s Haaretz’s account of the historic moment:

12 P.M.: In an unscheduled stop not listed on his published itenerary, Pope Francis descended from his popemobile when it drove past the hulking grey concrete wall that Israel erected 10 years ago during a Palestinian uprising, that divides Bethlehem from the adjacent Jerusalem.
The pope spent several minutes under the shadow of an Israeli watchtower and said a prayer, a Reuters witness said.

The Times:

After describing the overall situation between Israel and the Palestinians as “increasingly unacceptable,” the pope made a dramatic, unscheduled stop at Israel’s contentious concrete barrier separating Bethlehem from Jerusalem, where he prayed and touched his head against the graffiti-covered wall.

Meantime, the Prime Minister of Israel is fighting back against the image that has gone worldwide.

— PM of Israel (@IsraeliPM) May 26, 2014

Time Magazine, the Washington Post, NPR and the Associated Press have supported his endeavor, captioning the iconic photograph, “Pope Francis touches the wall that divides Israel from the West Bank.” But the wall doesn’t separate the countries. It robs tons of Palestinian land. And it’s not just the West Bank, it’s Palestine. As for the security claim, the absence of Palestinian suicide bombers is a reflection of a Palestinian decision to pursue a nonviolent course, as Mustafa Barghouthi said recentlyuces the wall that divides Israel from the West Bank

The Pope also went to Dheisheh refugee camp. These photos are from the UN Relief and Works Agency.

Pope

Pope at Dheishe refugee camp, photo from UNRWA.org

 

Pope

Pope at Dheishe refugee camp, photo by UNRWA.org

 

Pope

Pope at Dheishe refugee camp, photo at UNRWA.org

The Israelis are countering with lots of images of the Pope in Israel. Here he is laying a wreath at Herzl’s grave.
Here he is at Yad Vashem, on youtube. And a still photo, with his good friends in the background:

Pope at Yad Vashem

Pope at Yad Vashem

The AP reports:

Pope Francis honored Jews killed in the Holocaust and other attacks and kissed the hands of Holocaust survivors as he capped his three-day Mideast trip with poignant stops Monday at some of the holiest and most haunting sites for Jews.

Netanyahu got the Pope to stop at a wall for Israeli victims of terror attacks:

I would like to thank Pope Francis for accepting my invitation to visit the memorial for terror victims

Pope prays at wall honoring victims of terror

Pope prays at wall honoring victims of terror

Mazin Qumsiyeh noted this encounter below with the Pope in Bethlehem:

Message to the Pope at the wall in Bethlehem

Message to the Pope at the wall in Bethlehem

And Qumsiyeh writes:

The Pope later went on to Tel Aviv to be was sandwiched between two Zionist Polish liars who continue to build walls of hate and destruction: Persky (aka Peres) and Mileikowsky (aka Netanyahu). The Pope had to listen as both atheists said that God gave this land to the Jews and that Israel was “the
land of the Jewish people” and is a “democracy that guarantees freedom of religion”! Unfortunately, the Pope is also forced to lay a wreath at the tomb of Theodore Herzl (in addition to the obligatory stops at “Yad Vashem” and Herod’s retaining wall [the Western Wall). Herzl is another atheist who is “credited”
with organizing a world-wide Zionist movement that resulted in hundreds of thousands of deaths (not counting those crimes committed by its subservient armies like the US army killing Iraqis etc).

Oh and I missed this from the Times:

On Sunday, Francis became the first pope to travel directly into Israeli-occupied Palestinian territory and to call it the “State of Palestine,” affirming the 2012 United Nations resolution upgrading its status.

But the article later says:

John Paul II’s visit in 2000 “was a huge revolution,” Professor Ramon said, particularly his placement of a note committing “to genuine brotherhood with the people of the Covenant” between the stones of the Western Wall.

The NYT doesn’t regard occupied East Jerusalem as occupied territory?

Philip Weiss

Philip Weiss is Founder and Co-Editor of Mondoweiss.net.

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128 Responses

  1. just on May 26, 2014, 11:46 am

    As they say, you can’t unring that bell.

    No matter how they try to plaster it over with their machinations and complaining, it is now firmly stuck in the minds of millions. I especially love how this Pope has not invited the Netanyahu to the Vatican for prayer.

    From the BG article that Walker linked to this morning:

    ” Why do you think he invited Peres and not Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who holds the real political power?

    He’s threading the needle, because I’m not sure what would have happened had he invited Netanyahu. In terms of diplomatic protocol, this makes sense because it’s two heads of state. If he had asked Netanyahu, I’m not sure who’d he have had to invite from the Palestinian side.

    This may be a small opening, but who knows what the next steps will be? It was a stroke of grace and instinct that only Pope Francis seems to possess.”

    http://www.bostonglobe.com/news/world/2014/05/26/cardinal-says-pope-francis-backed-palestinians-security-wall/is08Qh7c7oGmC2QxFg1mHJ/story.html

    The article is well worth reading imo.

    • Krauss on May 26, 2014, 1:03 pm

      It seems like the Pope isn’t going to sit by idly and meekly. He shows up at the Israeli locations out of a sense of fairness, but he knows who the occupier and the colonizer is.

      It seems like his entire visit is strained beyond reason. He even gets into spats with the pope over which language Jesus spoke.

      Somehow Bibi managed to wreck the relationship with the most important pope since John Paul II. And good for Francis to refusing to play along the Israeli hasbara machine.

    • on May 26, 2014, 3:36 pm

      netanpsycho – “jesus was here,in this land. he spoke hebrew”
      “aramaic” the pope interjected.
      “he spoke aramaic, but he knew hebrew” shot back netanpsycho who, unwittingly admitted that it lied about claiming jesus spoke hebrew.
      GOT YA, YOU TRUTH-PERVERTING LIAR!

      • Shingo on May 26, 2014, 5:38 pm

        Yes that was priceless.

        So on the spot, Netenyahu decides Jesus was bilingual!

        What a joker.

      • Basilio on May 26, 2014, 8:04 pm

        He would have known both Aramaic and Hebrew, but he would have primarily spoken Aramaic. Some people did speak Hebrew, but it wasn’t used so often. If Netanyahu said that Jesus knew Hebrew and Aramaic, then fine. Anyway, Jesus didn’t care for hypocrites who spoke of being with God but harmed others.

      • ToivoS on May 26, 2014, 7:24 pm

        Hebrew had died out as a spoken language centuries before Jesus was born. Rabbis knew Hebrew just like Roman catholic priests know the dead language Latin.

      • Basilio on May 26, 2014, 8:06 pm

        Not exactly. There were pockets of Hebrew speakers during that time period. It wasn’t completely a liturgical language as everyone believes. If he would have had knowledge of it, but he would have used Aramaic mostly.

      • Walid on May 27, 2014, 2:23 am

        Even today’s Aramaic is not the same as it was during Jesus’ time. The Syrians in the town of Maaloula that claim to be the only people that still speaks in the language of Jesus among themselves are not correct in their assertion. It’s close but not identical to the Aramaic of Jesus.

        The Abwun d’bwaschmaya in Aramaic:

      • bilal a on May 27, 2014, 10:36 am

        They didnt speak Yiddish or Modern Israeli Hebrew, a language as fake as Netanyahu’s name.

      • seafoid on May 27, 2014, 3:23 pm

        IDF Hebrew was invented during the second Temple period by B B Ben Mili Kov Ski, the famous bronze age skier and lover. He had a ring with the date 1994 on it and archaeologists believe it referred to a slimy descendant of his who would promise great things but end up as a discredited asshole.

      • seafoid on May 27, 2014, 1:10 am

        “Jesus was here,in this land. he spoke hebrew. He wore a Lithuanian furry hat and he ate gefilte fish. He was also a corporal in the Givati brigade. In the Galilee he spoke out about the need for private enterprise. He hated the poor”.

      • Inanna on May 27, 2014, 3:24 am

        Walid, that’s an atrocious version of the Our Father in Aramaic. The accent is all wrong as well as the music. It makes it sound like Western new age music which it’s not. There are some other versions on youtube that do better from Syrian and Iraqi Christians:


        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anWyJ-Gd8us

        As an Arabic speaker there are words that I recognise – malakut (kingdom) bisho (evil) etc.

      • Walid on May 27, 2014, 4:17 am

        I agree, Inanna, I didn’t like it it much either. I’m more into the Syriac that I can listen to for hours during Holy Week but I was looking for Aramaic and landed on the scratchy version.

      • Walid on May 27, 2014, 4:34 am

        Inanna, to make up for the scratchy version I posted, here are a few more words you’ll recognize from the Syriac Orthodox ‘As-salaam-Aleikeh ya Mariam:

      • Kathleen on May 27, 2014, 8:37 am

        interesting conversation…

      • seafoid on May 27, 2014, 10:16 am

        That is a beautiful version.
        Hauntingly sad to think that two thirds of Iraqi Christians have left the country since the invasion.
        Thanks Israel and Neocons.

      • W.Jones on May 27, 2014, 2:04 pm

        Thanks for posting such a pretty song! It’s neat for me that you were raised Orthodox and have found these interesting overlapping language elements between Aramaic and Arabic. Do you have a blog or webpage?

      • Inanna on May 27, 2014, 8:03 pm

        Thanks Walid that’s much more like it!

        seafoid, agreed.

        W. Jones, I don’t blog but I do belong to an Arabic language choir with members from all over the Arab world and I share with many of them an interest in our different sacred traditions as well as secular Arabic music.

      • Citizen on May 27, 2014, 4:19 am

        LOL

      • annie on May 27, 2014, 10:43 am

        seafoid 1:10 am, you’re too funny!

  2. Citizen on May 26, 2014, 11:54 am

    Yeah, this Pope has the right instincts, but he’s being rolled over–it’s now down to tit-for-tat iconic images, Palestinian victims versus Jewish victims. I see no primetime media discussing this rationally, especially the giant imbalance of power.

    Today, on CSPAN WJ, the guest was an Irish American POTUS historian. He was bombarded, apropos US Veterans Memorial holiday, with callers who questioned the US-Israel “special relationship,” mostly by pointing to Walt & Mearsheimer’s book, PNAC, the neon cons, USS liberty incident, etc–all facts. The historian laid out in measured tones he never heard of Walt & Merisheimer book on the Israel Lobby, he never heard of PNAC, nor of Nuland and her Zionist hubby, and he concluded what they were all saying was due to anti-semitism. The CSPAN host let him have the last word.

  3. American on May 26, 2014, 12:04 pm

    ”Israel will ‘speak to the Vatican’ about Pope’s unscheduled stop near an Israeli-built barricade’

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/10855742/Israel-will-speak-to-the-Vatican-about-Popes-unscheduled-stop-near-an-Israeli-built-barricade.html

    ‘Speak’ , demand, threaten, summon, whine, accuse, scream like monkeys…all you want boys….the fact is the world is tired of you.

    • Kathleen on May 27, 2014, 8:38 am

      The Pope will not fold. He all ready did it and knew exactly what he was doing.

  4. eljay on May 26, 2014, 12:18 pm

    >> PM Netanyahu: “I explained to the Pope that building the security fence prevented many more victims that Palestinian terror planned to harm”

    King Bibi likely failed to explain to the pope that Zio-supremacists like him wish for Israeli terror:
    – to keep as much as possible of the land it has stolen and colonized;
    – to avoid having to honour its commitments under international law;
    – to avoid any responsibility or accountability for past and ON-GOING (war) crimes; and
    – to remain a supremacist “Jewish State”.

  5. Shuki on May 26, 2014, 12:24 pm

    As for the security claim, the absence of Palestinian suicide bombers is a reflection of a Palestinian decision to pursue a nonviolent course.

    Sure, it is just a coincidence that the number of people killed by Palestinian suicide bombers has gone down significantly as the security barrier has been expanded. Who exactly is it that is trying to change the image of the wall?

    • Woody Tanaka on May 26, 2014, 12:59 pm

      “Sure, it is just a coincidence that the number of people…”

      No, it’s not coincidence at all. The Zionist quite purposefully spread the lie about the purpose of the Apartheid Wall, in light of the change in Palestinian tactics. They wished to excuse their racist theft of Palestinian lands. Further, they and everyone else, knows that if the Palestinian wished to resume the direct attacks on Israeli soft targets, this wall would not stop them.

      • Shingo on May 26, 2014, 6:34 pm

        Indeed. 1,500 Palestinians bypass that wall every week to get into Israel. That means any determined suicide bber would have no problem circumventing it.

    • lyn117 on May 26, 2014, 1:36 pm

      However, the number of victims of Israeli terror hasn’t gone down since the wall expanded. So your comment reveals that you care nothing about innocent victims unless they’re Israeli.

      • Ecru on May 26, 2014, 9:29 pm

        @ Lyn117

        you care nothing about innocent victims unless they’re Israeli.

        Slight correction if I may? Cares nothing about victims unless they’re Israeli Jews.

    • justicewillprevail on May 26, 2014, 1:42 pm

      Shin Bet for one, don’t believe the apartheid wall stopped suicide bombers

      http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/shin-bet-palestinian-truce-main-cause-for-reduced-terror-1.61607

      Its primary function is separation, ie entrenching apartheid, with the secondary purpose of stealing land, whilst making Palestinian life even more difficult and divided.

      See also:

      http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ben-white/did-israeli-apartheid-wall-really-stop-suicide-bombings

    • tree on May 26, 2014, 2:36 pm

      To quote from the early 2014 Ynet article lest Shuki doesn’t bother to read the EI link:

      Sources with the defense establishment estimated that currently some 80,000 Palestinians who have crossed into Israel illegally reside in the State, and that some 6,000 cross the border fence every month.

      And to quote from the EI article itself:

      While the Wall was only twenty percent completed in mid-2003, a decade later the wall’s route is still only 62 percent complete.

      On Sunday, Yediot Ahronot cited sources within Israel’s “defense establishment” who estimated that around 6,000 Palestinians cross through gaps in the Wall every month. A lower figure of 20-30,000 Palestinians workers a year is cited by Israeli workers’ advocacy group Kav LaOved (which even at its lower end would still mean almost 400 a week).

      To cite another example, in 2007 — when the Wall was 50 percent completed and there was one suicide bombing attack the whole year — an estimated average of more than 1,200 Palestinians bypassed the wall to work without permits every week.

      Palestinian choice

      Even the founder of Israeli campaign group A Fence for Life has admitted that with “tens of thousands of illegal workers” facing “no problem crossing the gaps in the fence,” the lack of attacks is fundamentally due to “the Palestinians’ choice”.

      Israel’s apologists, therefore, want you to believe that a partially completed wall, crossed routinely by at least hundreds of Palestinians every week, is the reason for an almost total reduction in suicide bombing attacks.

      Perhaps Shuki can explain how a wall/fence that is breached by 6000 Palestinians every month,with many if not most breaching the wall nearly daily to work illegally in Israel, can somehow stop a suicide bomber who only needs to breach it once. Or perhaps it would be easier to explain how s/he can be so easily duped into thinking that the wall provides any kind of “security”.

    • Kathleen on May 27, 2014, 8:39 am

      Build the bloody wall on internationally recognized Israeli land if you have such good intentions. Israel has stolen more land via this “monstrous” wall. And that is a fact

  6. Pamela Olson on May 26, 2014, 2:33 pm

    Regarding Israel’s Wall and whether or not it’s effective in preventing terrorism (from my book Fast Times in Palestine):

    The Shin Bet, Israel’s internal security and intelligence service, credited the sharp decline in violence in 2005 to the truce and Hamas’s desire to enter the political arena — not to the Wall.

    The Shin Bet admitted that the Wall was “no longer mentioned as the major factor in preventing suicide bombings, mainly because the terrorists have found ways to bypass it. The fence does make it harder for them, but the flawed inspection procedures at its checkpoints, the gaps and uncompleted sections enable suicide bombers to enter Israel.” Hundreds of Palestinians cross the Wall every day to work in Israel without a permit. If someone is really motivated to get across, he absolutely can.

    The main reason for the drop in attacks was “the fact that Hamas, in general, stopped engaging in terror activities . . . Its focus on the political arena and the preparations for the Palestinian parliamentary elections [because the bombings were not supported by the Palestinian public] have limited its active involvement in terror to a large extent.”

    Source: Amos Harel, “Shin Bet: Palestinian Truce Main Cause for Reduced Terror,” Haaretz, January 2, 2006.

    The Israeli Army also admitted on several occasions that the route of the Wall was not for security considerations but due to settlement considerations, including future planned settlements. Not that they needed to admit the obvious. Still, they did.

    I wish people would quit bothering with bullsh** propaganda and deal with reality. The people who desperately need this propaganda are the ones who refuse to deal with reality. And it harms everyone.

    • Daniel Rich on May 27, 2014, 5:07 am

      Thanks Pamela.

      • hophmi on May 27, 2014, 11:19 am

        I wish the pro-Palestinian community would stop pretending that there is no such thing as cause and effect and admit that what brought the truce was a sustained campaign against Hamas that brought Hamas to its knees, rather than portraying Hamas’s decision to make a truce as if they did it out of the goodness of their hearts.

        Pamela Olsen left out the part of Amos Harel’s article that says:

        “The Shin Bet and the Israel Defense Forces attribute the reduction mainly to the improvement in their joint capability to foil terrorist attacks and to act against terrorist organizations.”

        That, in turn, brought about the truce, and while the barrier is not totally responsible for the drop in bombings, there’s little question when your terrorist leadership is constantly being killed off, your many attempts foiled, and in addition to that, a barrier is making it all the more difficult to send people in to kill, it all has a psychological effect.

        http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/shin-bet-palestinian-truce-main-cause-for-reduced-terror-1.61607

  7. gazacalling on May 26, 2014, 3:17 pm

    Awesome post. Thanks much.

  8. MHughes976 on May 26, 2014, 4:07 pm

    I’m surprised that Qumsiyeh refers to the Western Wall as ‘Herod’s’ , an idea that has been discredited by the discovery beneath it of coins minted by Valerius Gratus two decades after H’s death and two decades after the outer structures of the Temple had been finished (per Josephus) according to his plan. H never saw the wall and never planned it.
    While I tend to think that the current Pope is rather overpraised I do praise him for adding some drama to his calls for (in effect) a 2ss. I stand by my belief that the problems of 2ss have not been overcome.

    • Kathleen on May 27, 2014, 8:47 am

      Only Israel can get rid of the illegal settlements and that is not going to happen. One state solution being the only realistic solution

  9. seafoid on May 26, 2014, 4:40 pm

    The 2 polish liars line is excellent.

    The pope and netanyahu. 2 very different ways of looking at the world.

  10. Kay24 on May 26, 2014, 5:55 pm

    Too late for Beebs. The Pope masterfully, and gracefully, brought focus on the occupation, and the plight of the Palestinians, by standing against that occupartheid wall, that had the words “Free Palestine” in bold red letters. It also helped that he referred to the “State of Palestine”- strong words.
    Beebs and his band of zionists are not looking so good now. No hasbara or damage control, can ever remedy that. Heh.
    Long live Pope Francis!

    • eljay on May 26, 2014, 6:28 pm

      >> Too late for Beebs.

      That’s “King Beebs” to you! ;-)

      He has “Jewish street creds”, y’know… :-P

      • Kay24 on May 27, 2014, 7:47 am

        Well then, he is King Beebs the liar of Tel Aviv, and builder of illegal settlements. :))

    • Kathleen on May 27, 2014, 8:46 am

      yep

  11. wes on May 26, 2014, 6:08 pm

    the photo of pope at the wall is interesting in many ways

    the flag the young girl holds covers up the word “like” and leaves one the impression that israel has become like the warsaw ghetto.

    the security wall is an extension of the Wailing Wall and will commemorate all the victims both arab and israeli who died in the suicide bombing campaign of 2002 -2006

  12. benedict on May 26, 2014, 7:10 pm

    What does Qumsiye hope to achieve by denigrating Jewish symbols like the western wall?
    Netanyahu is perhaps a liar, but he surely isn’t polish. He’s as Palestinian as abu mazen is.
    Qumsiye must realize that regardless of how the Palestine conflict will ultimately be resolved 6 million Israelis will remain part of the solution and their attachment to the land must be respected.

    • Woody Tanaka on May 27, 2014, 7:31 am

      What do Zioniat hope to achieve by denegrating Al-Haram ash-Sharif ny ferreing to it as “Temple Mount”?

      • hophmi on May 27, 2014, 11:08 am

        “What do Zioniat hope to achieve by denegrating Al-Haram ash-Sharif ny ferreing to it as ‘Temple Mount’?”

        Wow, can you appreciate that more than one religion accords holiness to the Temple Mount? Do you find calling Al-Quds Jerusalem is denigrating Al-Quds?

        Probably not, but you should learn.

      • Woody Tanaka on May 28, 2014, 10:29 am

        “Wow, can you appreciate that more than one religion accords holiness to the Temple Mount?”

        And can you appreciate that people may have differing views as to the archiological significance of the Western Wall?

        “Do you find calling Al-Quds Jerusalem is denigrating Al-Quds?”

        You really don’t know how to read in context, do you?

      • hophmi on May 28, 2014, 12:35 pm

        “And can you appreciate that people may have differing views as to the archiological significance of the Western Wall?”

        I can, can you? You wrote that Zionists “denigrate” the Haram al Sharif by referring to it as the Temple Mount. You haven’t shown how it denigrates anything. No one is denying that Muslims believe the Temple Mount is also the Haram al-Sharif.

    • Cliff on May 27, 2014, 9:48 am

      you Zionists disrespect Jewish symbols by putting them on your nationalism

      and when you butcher the Palestinians and rob them of their homeland, you mark your disgraceful behavior in Jewish symbols

      during Cast Lead the IDF stormtroopers carved the Star of David into Gazan farmland

  13. Misterioso on May 26, 2014, 7:15 pm

    For the record:

    Jesus was probably a Canaanite/Palestinian whose Galilean ancestors were forcibly converted to Judaism by the Maccabees about 150 years before he was born.
    BTW, the Arabic word for God, Allah, is derived from the Aramaic word for God, Allaha, as spoken by Jesus.

    • tokyobk on May 27, 2014, 2:36 am

      Elaha is Aramaic.
      Alaha is Syriac.
      El, Elohim Hebrew.

      • Inanna on May 27, 2014, 3:31 am

        Elaha/Alaha, potayto/potahto.

      • RoHa on May 27, 2014, 3:44 am

        Please, let’s call the whole thing off.

      • Walid on May 27, 2014, 4:06 am

        It’s all Shmuel’s fault that started the whole thing. He should go to jail and pay the $200.

      • Shmuel on May 27, 2014, 4:42 am

        It’s all Shmuel’s fault that started the whole thing. He should go to jail and pay the $200.

        ʼAnaʼ? ʼAnaʼ laʼ ʻavdit midaʻam.

      • Walid on May 27, 2014, 6:12 am

        “ʼAnaʼ? ʼAnaʼ laʼ ʻavdit midaʻam.”

        Shmuel, kidding aside it was a welcome and refreshing change from the dull routine of throwing stones at Zionists.

      • Kathleen on May 27, 2014, 8:45 am

        So funny thanks for that

      • Rania on May 27, 2014, 1:53 pm

        Yes, let’s!

      • Misterioso on May 27, 2014, 5:44 pm

        If we pronounce the words “Allah” in Arabic and “Elahh (pronounced as ‘El-aw’)” in Aramaic, listeners would hear virtually the same word. The essential point is that Jesus’s native tongue was Aramaic, not Hebrew.

  14. hophmi on May 26, 2014, 8:24 pm

    Two “Zionist Polish liars?”

    Mazin Qumsiyeh can go to hell.

    • Qualtrough on May 27, 2014, 2:16 am

      Perhaps he meant “two polished Zionist liars”? Still anti-semitic, right?

    • Cliff on May 27, 2014, 9:51 am

      How easily would it be – to emulate hoppy – to find a distasteful statement made by a prominent Zionist and conclude that their movement is racist?

      Very easy.

      Yet these Jewish colonists like hophmi throw these accusations around as if Zionism is pure as snow.

  15. hophmi on May 26, 2014, 8:41 pm

    Zionist Polish liars? Netanyahu was born in Tel Aviv and Peres came to Israel in 1934 at age 12. He lost almost his entire family in the Holocaust. This is why your movement is antisemitic.

    • annie on May 26, 2014, 11:49 pm

      hops, are you upset about the polish part, or the liar part? which of it is anti semitic?

      • RoHa on May 27, 2014, 12:27 am

        The Polish bit, obviously.

        And while I don’t give a hoot about the anti-Semitism charge, I agree that Peres stopped being Polish a long time ago, and Netanyahu is not now and never has been Polish.

      • tokyobk on May 27, 2014, 2:16 am

        I can’t speak for Hophmi and I certainly don’t like Bibi who is a bully and a chauvinist, and imo bad for all of the people living in historic Palestine, and I don’t know if (this time) Seafóid is being specifically antisemitic, but the idea that people are essentially the stock of their ancestors is the definition of racist. Its the notion behind complementing a 2rd generation American of Chinese descent on their wonderful English etc…

        Netanyahu was born in Tel Aviv and so he is either Israeli or Palestinian or perhaps even American where he spent some of his youth, but he is not Polish in any except in racialist terms (which even then what would Polish be genetically?). The quip was not to highlight his ancestry but to label him and all the other Ashkenazim as foreign interlopers (regardless of how early and when and under what terms they came to Palestine).

        Seafóid as I remember took the side that Sharon should be buried in Eastern Europe where he of course never lived and often argues in terms of national traits as if they are heritable. He seems to believe that certain people belong in certain regions and others don’t.

        What I think he and some others want is a counterstrike and this time the good guys win. A complete reversal and undoing of the last century. But these things rarely happen in history and won’t happen in I/P. Israel wins in every case where its tribe on tribe and only grows beyond Jewish nationalism where it will be forced by a universal appeal.

        In truth the only winning strategy is to move forward where everyone belongs on equal terms. So, while you also see a lot of attempts to delegitimize the Palestinians from the pro Israel side you also see this lagun age of interloping on those who want Palestine “pure.”

        The days of tribal nationalism which should be good news.

      • tokyobk on May 27, 2014, 2:19 am

        The days of tribal nationalism are over, I meant to say, which should be good news.

        I would also add that what the Pope did in his trip was acknowledge the Palestinian struggle and speak to Israeli power — without degrading Jews, denying Jewish suffering, or or denigrating Judaism.

        My he be an example here too.

      • Ellen on May 27, 2014, 4:11 am

        Toykobk, yes and yes again.

        But isn’t the idea: that people are essentially the stock of their ancestors is the definition of racist. absolutely and completely counter to Zionism and the founding premise of Israel?

        And yes, Israel will survive and prosper only when it moves beyond ideas of race and religion and nationalism. So far these ideas and drummed up fear of the gentile world is the glue of Israeli society. Let’s hope it can one day be free of this.

      • Keith on May 27, 2014, 4:17 pm

        TOKYOBK- “…denying Jewish suffering….”

        You seem rather obsessed with the myth of eternal anti-Semitism and Jewish suffering. Let us be clear, throughout history there have been Jews who suffered just as there have been non-Jews who suffered. Those individuals who suffered, suffered, those that didn’t, didn’t. There is no group symbiotic suffering. From previous posts, I gather that you are well educated and at least somewhat privileged. Yet, you moan and groan like you have just been rescued from some concentration camp. Enough, already! Stop wallowing in your fantasy victim-hood. You are privileged, deal with it. You are a privileged citizen of an empire which has been screwing the entire Third World longer than you have been alive. And Jews are not one of the minorities that are over-represented in our over-populated prisons. Time to see beyond yourself.

      • tree on May 27, 2014, 4:30 am

        but the idea that people are essentially the stock of their ancestors is the definition of racist.

        Given Quimseh’s status as a member of the aggrieved indigenous victims of racist Zionist foreigners, including Polish Jews like Peres and Netanyahu’s father, I think he has the right to refer to them as such especially when his point is that their roots are European and they are atheist while they falsely claim that as Jews they are the indigenous ones, and God, in whom they don’t believe, granted them and only them the land. The ones essentializing themselves (as indigenous Jews) are Peres and Netanyahu, so take up your beef with them, not Quimseh, and not seafoid who simply approved of Quimseh’s comments. If a Native American referred to white Americans who trumpet “Manifest Destiny” as Europeans liars would you jump down his neckand call him a “racist”? Seriously?

        And while you are at it, look at your own hypocrisy. You self-refer as an African-American but as you admit your most recent ancestor who actually came from Africa was born in 1850, a much more removed African ancestral tree than Netanyahu’s. So if it is OK to mention your more ancient ancestry, why the need to slur with your ever ready “anti-semitic” tag when Quimseh correctly refers to Peres’ and Netanyahu’s very recent ancestry? And ancestry is not necessarily race, and certainly there is no Polish race, so your point is contrived. And both Peres, and Netanyahu’s father WERE foreign interlopers who committed crimes against the indigenous Palestinians. Its great to be all “kumbayah” and “can’t we all live together”, but when you only seem agitated enough to make a comment when you think Jews are being verbally maligned while daily and for over a century non-Jewish Palestinians have been physically attacked, oppressed and maligned by those same foreigner interlopers and their descendants who show no sign of accepting the real victims of their interloping as fellow human beings deserving to live in the land, then I for one question the sincerity of your commitment to fighting racism and promoting acceptance. You really can’t seem to step out of your Jewish victim bubble.

      • Daniel Rich on May 27, 2014, 5:12 am

        @ tokyob,

        Q; …but the idea that people are essentially the stock of their ancestors is the definition of racist.

        R; Does that explain the existence of Second & Third Generation Holocaust Survivor Groups Groups?

      • eljay on May 27, 2014, 9:16 am

        >> tokyobk @ May 27, 2014 at 2:16 am

        Good post.

      • annie on May 27, 2014, 10:03 am

        The quip was not to highlight his ancestry but to label him and all the other Ashkenazim as foreign interlopers

        a colonialist. i’m not sure accusing euro zionists of being colonialist is anti semitic,per se.

        Seafóid …. often argues in terms of national traits as if they are heritable.

        well, the concept of jews being a nation of people or “tribal nationalism” is the same argument, isn’t it? it’s by birth no?

        the idea that people are essentially the stock of their ancestors is the definition of racist.

        but when one says an american jew is part of ‘the jewish nation’ or jewish state (of israel where he/she may have never been) is not that because of “the stock of their ancestors”? in that case it would be racist or anti semitic to assume, because a person was jewish, they are part of this jewish nation. but they can go to israel and have citizenship someone born there is denied.

      • hophmi on May 27, 2014, 11:41 am

        You all keep missing the point. Both families came to Israel to escape persecution, and those in their families who stayed behind were murdered.

        Somehow, that just doesn’t register with you, probably because you’re blinded by your hate, as Mazin is.

      • Woody Tanaka on May 27, 2014, 12:18 pm

        hoppy: “You all keep missing the point. Both families came to Israel to escape persecution, and those in their families who stayed behind were murdered”

        No, you keep missing the point. Even if we assume that they came to escape persecution, that doesn’t matter. What matters is the fact that when they came to Palestine, they whole-heartedly engaged in the political program of theft of the land from its sole rightful owners, the Palestinians. The fact that one is escaping persecution does not entitle that person to, in turn, persecute someone else, as these people did here.

        And the only one here who is blinded, it is you, by your bigotry.

      • hophmi on May 27, 2014, 1:37 pm

        “No, you keep missing the point. Even if we assume that they came to escape persecution, that doesn’t matter. ”

        Exactly the problem with your approach. It does matter, whether you care to acknowledge it or not. It matters a great deal. You should feel some pang of dissonance when you admit the reality of this conflict is that it pits one aggrieved people against another, and that the outcome of a reality with no Israel is that people like Peres would have been murdered in Poland.

        But you have a giant blind spot there, and it is a blind spot brought about by a political movement that can’t even acknowledge the Holocaust in its timelines of the conflict’s history. For you, the complexities of history do not matter. So you are incapable of seeing the monstrosity of calling those who fled European persecution “Polish.”

      • Daniel Rich on May 27, 2014, 5:51 pm

        @ hophmi,

        Q; You all keep missing the point. Both families came to Israel to escape persecution…

        R; So, where would you advise Palestinians to go to, to escape prosecution? Florida?

        You seem to forget that there was no Israel 70 years ago. How quaint…

      • RoHa on May 27, 2014, 8:07 pm

        ‘“No, you keep missing the point. Even if we assume that they came to escape persecution, that doesn’t matter. ”

        Exactly the problem with your approach. It does matter, whether you care to acknowledge it or not. It matters a great deal.”

        If you believe that, perhaps you could offer some arguments to the conclusion “people who move to another country in order to escape persecution have a right to take over a chunk of the country of refuge and expel the native population”. Or some similar conclusion.

        (Jews fled to Britain to escape persecution. Would those Jews have been justified in taking over Wales and driving out three quarters of the Welsh?)

        If you cannot produce any arguments, perhaps you should seriously question the idea that fleeing persecution is an excuse for the activities of the Zionists.

        Or you could simply declare that you don’t give a hoot about morality and moral reasoning.

      • Woody Tanaka on May 28, 2014, 10:21 am

        “Exactly the problem with your approach. It does matter, whether you care to acknowledge it or not. It matters a great deal.”

        No, it doesn’t. If these people could articulate a legitimate fear of persecution, it would entitle them to refugee status and permit them to seek asylum. It did not give them the right to descend on another people and steal the land from those people. That is the issue — what the Jews did to the Palestinians. YOU can’t see that because your entire outlook starts and ends with the perspective of the Jews, coupled with your bigotry that suggests that whatever the Jews want or need must be the highest priority and cannot be question by anyone. It is your prejudice which is your problem.

        “You should feel some pang of dissonance when you admit the reality of this conflict is that it pits one aggrieved people against another,”

        No, it’s not. It’s one people who were minding their own buisness in their land–Palestine–when it was attacked and ruthlessly stolen by a group of aliens from Europe, who had no personal connection with that land, save for religious writing. The Palestinians were not aggreieved against the Zionists, but only became so when the Zionists attacked them for no reason, save for the Zionists’s lust for the land that belonged solely to the Palestinians.

        “and that the outcome of a reality with no Israel is that people like Peres would have been murdered in Poland.”

        And with Israel, there are many, many, many, people (like Peres except Palestinian) who have been murdered in Palestine, by Zionists. But you don’t give a damn about them, because they’re non-Jews and, as such, to people like you, don’t qualify for consideration.

        “But you have a giant blind spot there, and it is a blind spot brought about by a political movement that can’t even acknowledge the Holocaust in its timelines of the conflict’s history.”

        What nonsense. The Zionist assault on Palestine started well before the Holocaust and, at any rate, the Holocaust justified nothing which occurred in Palestine to the Palestinians. It was a European event between Europeans. If the Jews thought that it entitled them to a state, they should have tried building it in Europe. It might have justified carving out a Jewish state in Europe. It is an abomination to suggest it justified carving out a Jewish state in Palestine.

        “For you, the complexities of history do not matter.”

        Nonsense. The complexities of history do matter. Such as the history that a bunch of European Zionists concocted a plan to steal the land that belonged to another and, thus, started a war of aggression against the Palestinians that continues to this day. They are all guilty of that crime against humanity and war crime, but that complexity is one which YOU refuse to acknowledge, because to do so would require you to view the Jews as something other than always poor, put-upon victims. In Palestine, they were and are anything but.

        “So you are incapable of seeing the monstrosity of calling those who fled European persecution ‘Polish.'”

        There’s nothing monstrous about calling someone born in Poland or to ancestors from Poland “Polish.” It’s rather racist for you to suggest otherwise.

    • pjdude on May 27, 2014, 12:47 am

      It’s anti Semitic to call jews of polish ethnicity polish? Than netentahoo was born in tel aviv can’t change his ethnic gentitic make up.

      • hophmi on May 27, 2014, 1:11 am

        Polish is an ethnicity? Qumsiyeh is suggesting that Jews like Netanyahu and Peres belong in Poland, rather than Israel. Frankly, the implication is completely clear to anyone who doesn’t have their head in the sand. What relevance is it that they or their ancestors lived in Poland at one time?

      • annie on May 27, 2014, 10:11 am

        What relevance is it that they or their ancestors lived in Poland at one time?

        What relevance is it that netanyahu or his ancestors lived in jerusalem thousands of years ago?

      • hophmi on May 27, 2014, 1:41 pm

        “What relevance is it that netanyahu or his ancestors lived in jerusalem thousands of years ago?”

        Once again, Annie, I’m not aware of the rule that says you get to define for other people who they are. If you can’t tell the difference between the importance of Jerusalem in the Jewish religion, and the horror that Jews feel when they think of Jewish life in Poland in the last 100 years, then I don’t know what to say.

      • eljay on May 27, 2014, 10:38 am

        >> Polish is an ethnicity?

        Jewish is an ethnicity?

        >> Qumsiyeh is suggesting that Jews like Netanyahu and Peres belong in Poland, rather than Israel.

        1. Israeli Jews – and refugees from homes and lands within Partition-borders Israel – belong within Partition-borders Israel (and not outside of it).
        2. Non-Israeli Jews belong in their respective homelands, not in a supremacist “Jewish State” in Palestine.

        >> What relevance is it that they or their ancestors lived in Poland at one time?

        Indeed.

      • pjdude on May 28, 2014, 1:29 pm

        Yes polish is an ethnicity to claim otherwise would be bigotry just as it would be to deny the same to all other ethnic groups

      • tokyobk on May 27, 2014, 2:40 am

        For non-racists his and any one else’s “ethnic genetic makeup” is not sufficient information for determining one’s citizenship (or character). Where someone was born and raised is.
        For a racist ones ethnic genetic makeup and one’s citizenship are the same, and where one is born does not matter.

      • Inanna on May 27, 2014, 3:37 am

        For non-racists anyone who colludes in the ethnic cleansing and forced expulsion of a people for the benefit of their own ethnic group is a racist. That includes Netanyahu’s father as well as his son and anyone else who clings to a exclusivist ideology.

      • tree on May 27, 2014, 4:32 am

        Amen, Inanna.

      • Kathleen on May 27, 2014, 8:44 am

        Bingo

      • Ellen on May 27, 2014, 4:15 am

        How is the Israeli search for the Jewish genes going? And if you have those magic genes, you are Jewish, right? And if you are Jewish, you are an Israeli under Israeli law, right?

      • annie on May 27, 2014, 10:19 am

        For a racist ones ethnic genetic makeup and one’s citizenship are the same, and where one is born does not matter.

        that pretty much determines who gets to move to israel tho, doesn’t it?

        so were they right at the russell tribunal when they voted zionsm is racism?

    • Woody Tanaka on May 27, 2014, 7:40 am

      “Mazin Qumsiyeh can go to hell.”

      You can go to hell. When you fail to chastise your fellow Zionists when they say far, far worse and more racist thing about the Palestinians and Palestine, and loae your mind over this quip? You can go to hell.

      “Peres came to Israel in 1934 at age 12.”

      No, Peres came to Palestine at age 12. And he dis so as part of the project of European Jews to steal that same Palestine from its sole rightful owners, the Palestinians. So this Polish Zionist liar can go to hell.

      “He lost almost his entire family in the Holocaust.”

      How sad for him. But so what? You think this gives him the right to stael someone else’s land? to ethnically cleanse them? to oppress them and discriminate them for decade after decade? You can go to hell.

      • hophmi on May 27, 2014, 1:43 pm

        “No, Peres came to Palestine at age 12. And he dis so as part of the project of European Jews to steal that same Palestine from its sole rightful owners.”

        You mean the Ottomans landlords?

        “How sad for him. But so what?”

        So what? Go lose ten family members in a gas chamber and then tell me so what. Jerk.

      • Woody Tanaka on May 28, 2014, 10:11 am

        “You mean the Ottomans landlords?”

        Nope. The Palestinian people. The fact that you are forced to deny this fundamental fact is telling.

        “So what? Go lose ten family members in a gas chamber and then tell me so what.”

        Again, so the hell what? Yes, it’s a sad tragedy for him, but completely irrelevant. He moved to Palestine in 1934, so he was already seven years in Palestine when those people were killed. So as to his right to be there and aid in the theft of the land from its sole rightful owners in order to create a monstrous Zionist state, the fact that they died is wholly and completely irrelevant.

        The notion that the Holocaust or the suffereing of Jews in Europe “justified” Zionism and the crimes agaisnt the Palestinians is one of the great evil ideas of all time. It’s barbaric. And it’s disgusting that someone even deems it worthy to bring up.

      • pjdude on May 28, 2014, 1:36 pm

        Didn’t you suggest to me that you felt the didn’t do enough to save jews because they weren’t will to sacrifice their exitence for the jews. I’m from a polish background and lost family members because they helped save jews. You mock my families loss why should I respect yours

    • Woody Tanaka on May 27, 2014, 7:43 am

      ” This is why your movement is antisemitic.”

      LMAO. Antisemitism used to be “hating Jews” and now, thanks to hoppy, it means “disagreeing when a Jew has an idea.”

      • annie on May 27, 2014, 10:22 am

        ” This is why your movement is antisemitic.”

        it does seem a tad strange to accuse someone of anti semitism when they apply the same standards of nationalism to jews that jews used as a pretext (or justification) for establishing a ‘national home’ in palestine.

        especially when, as i understand it, both poland and germany streamline citizenship for israeli jews who can prove their ancestors lived there. so are those countries racist for extending citizenship based on past (national) ancestry?

  16. Xpat on May 26, 2014, 9:08 pm

    How ungracious of Netanyahu. Instead of simply thanking his guest for doing the “victims of arab terror” stop, he has to blow his own horn. The implication being that Netanyahu is the man who stands against the world’s apathy towards the killing of Jews. Without Netanyahu’s ‘invitation’, the pope would have blithely ignored Jewish victims of terrorism.
    As Ellen just wrote on another thread in response to Mahaneh Yehudah, this is yet another display of Netanyahu’s paranoia and narcissism.

    • just on May 26, 2014, 9:13 pm

      Grace and Netanyahu are permanently divorced from one another….. he’s incapable of anything approaching civility or manners.

  17. Nevada Ned on May 27, 2014, 12:14 am

    Netanyahu forgot to say the following to the Pope…

    So you’re a Christian! That’s very nice. I was once married to a Christian woman. She converted to Judaism, but we later got divorced anyway. And we all know how the Catholic Church feels about divorce.
    Really, your holiness, I had no choice. I divorced my first wife (who was Jewish) and I also divorced the Christian convert (wife #2). I’m now on my third wife.

    And those are just the wives: A couple of well-documented (hidden camera!) extramarital affairs don’t count.

  18. biorabbi on May 27, 2014, 12:35 am

    I obviously have a dissenting view. Thank god for Bibi.

    Standing up to the pope, ensuring a visit to Israeli victims of Palestinian terror, standing up to his excellency President Obama before. Why the hell not?

    The picture of this pope next to the wall, with the words equating the Warsaw Ghetto with the situation in Bethlehem, sickens me.

    1. You are going to compare the starvation, extermination of over 300,000 Polish Jews in a brief period of time to the situation in Bethlehem today?
    2. The word Ghetto… a quarter of a city in which Jews were formerly required to live–I believe Venice, at the order of Catholic rulership in Italy. Nice.
    3. The touching inversion of Nazis and Jews, as so offing is the case among anti-semites is implied in this linkage… I wonder why nobody compares the Jews to Pol Pot? No, only a Nazi analogy will due, unless the South African analogy sometimes lacks the extra vigor of true hate.

    I believe Bibi also noted to ‘his holiness’ that Jesus spoke Hebrew, not just aramaic, this noting that Jesus was a Jew, and Jews have a connection to the land of Israel, hitting back at the nonsense that there is no connection of the Jews to Israel.

    To give him credit, the pope listened to Bibi and tried to create balance.

    Like Phil, I also no longer believe a two-state solution is possible as I once had. But to all the haters who use the Palestinians like a battering ram against the Jews, to the Palestinians(many of Jewish descent, Islamized over generations). You people… represented at Mondoweiss and throughout the internet, do not really want Palestinian statehood. It is just a prop to be used against Israel… in the same manner that corrupt arab regimes use the Palestinian issue to defuse public anger at their own corruption until the dawn of the arab spring.

    • Xpat on May 27, 2014, 6:23 pm

      @biorabbi,
      I am a Jew, very involved in the Jewish community, highly educated in Jewish text and a child of Holocaust survivors and I have no problem with this image. So save the anti-Semitism accusation for the real thing.
      I am moved by the image of the pope praying at the separation wall. There is an equivalence between the ignorance of Germans about the Holocaust (that Jews complained about in the decades after WWII) and the ongoing wilful denial of Jews to see the war crimes of Israel beyond the separation wall. As Friedlander pointed out, you can’t accept Netanyahu’s habitual use of the Holocaust as a political weapon and then say you are “sickened” when the Palestinians finally use the same imagery.

      • biorabbi on May 27, 2014, 7:15 pm

        Comparing Bethlehem to the Warsaw Ghetto? inverting Israel with the Nazis? This is not anti-semitic to you as a Jew? Then according to you, outside of lynching and physician murder, what constitutes anti-semitism? I would argue the obtuseness expressed on this very comment stream is full of anti-semitism… note the poster who is questioning the veracity of the killing of the Jews just the other day in Europe? She appears to be willing to dismiss it as some sort of false flag operation, because is her warped viewpoint, it makes Bibi look good or some drivel.

        Using your own words, Elliot, your are displaying a myopia concerning anti-semitism on this very threat… the false flag charge, the polish-ethnic labeling, are just two examples of disturbing anti-semitism that so often accompanies critique of Israel.

        I post here because words do matter. Your role here might be that of an african-american in the South in the 1960–under the watchful eye of his white audience–saying where the hell is the racism? Slavery ended in 1965. The racist will then tell you to ask his colored friend how grand things are.

      • Xpat on May 28, 2014, 4:51 pm

        @biorabbi,
        The pope did not equate Israel’s treatment of the Palestinians with the Warsaw ghetto. What is unforgivable to you is that the grafitti did not stop him praying at the separation wall. Words, as you say are important, but not more important than concrete reality.
        Ignoring someone else’s words and reducing them to the people they relate to and their ethnic identification appears to me to be a classic example of racism. Re-read your last comment to me for an example of that kind of attitude.

      • Citizen on May 27, 2014, 8:24 pm

        @ Elliot
        I am not a jew, very involved in universal humanism, educated in history and propaganda and the use of legalities to keep a negative status quo. I agree with your final sentence conclusion.

    • Woody Tanaka on May 27, 2014, 6:54 pm

      “The picture of this pope next to the wall, with the words equating the Warsaw Ghetto with the situation in Bethlehem, sickens me.”

      What should sicken you is the way the Jews treat the Palestinians in Bethlehem and the rest of Palestine. The fact that you feign sickness over rhetoric demonstrates your utter lack of character.

      “hitting back at the nonsense that there is no connection of the Jews to Israel.”

      BFD. The Palestinians have a greater connection to Palestine than the Jews of today’s Israel. When the Zionists accept that (and develop something approaching basic morality) then maybe justice for the Palestinians will be possible.

      “But to all the haters who use the Palestinians like a battering ram against the Jews… You people… represented at Mondoweiss and throughout the internet, do not really want Palestinian statehood. It is just a prop to be used against Israel…,”

      Yet again, you think it’s all about you, all about the Jews. How pathological.

      LOL. Jesus, if you people were to liberate the Palestinians and give them the justice to which they’re entitled, do you really think anyone in the world would give Jews anymore thought than they give Peruvians or Turks or Inuit or Hutus or Czechs or any other people in the world?

    • eljay on May 27, 2014, 8:53 pm

      >> … You people… represented at Mondoweiss and throughout the internet, do not really want Palestinian statehood. It is just a prop to be used against Israel… in the same manner that corrupt arab regimes use the Palestinian issue to defuse public anger at their own corruption until the dawn of the arab spring.

      The above little rant might make sense if it weren’t for the fact that Israel:
      – is an oppressive, colonialist, expansionist and supremacist state;
      – was born of terrorism and the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians from their homes and lands;
      – remains engaged in a 60+ years, ON-GOING and offensive (i.e., not defensive) campaign of aggression, oppression, theft, colonization, destruction, torture and murder that it has the power to halt but which it refuses to halt;
      – refuses to honour its obligations under international law;
      – refuses to accept responsibility and accountability for past and ON-GOING (war) crimes;
      – refuses to enter into sincere negotiations for a just and mutually-beneficial peace; and
      – refuses to be anything but a supremacist “Jewish State” – a state primarily of and for Jewish Israeli and non-Israeli Jews – rather than a secular and democratic Israeli state of and for all Israelis, equally.

      As it is, the little rant seems more like an expression of frustration with the fact that aggressor-victimhood is such a tough gig. :-(

  19. DICKERSON3870 on May 27, 2014, 12:39 am

    RE: “Jesus was here, in this land. He spoke Hebrew,” Netanyahu told Francis, at a public meeting in Jerusalem in which the Israeli leader cited a strong connection between Judaism and Christianity.
    “Aramaic,” the pope interjected.
    “He spoke Aramaic, but he knew Hebrew,” Netanyahu shot back.

    MY COMMENT: You know, maybe I’ve been wrong in suggesting that Netanyahu is a megalomaniac who is the prime minister of an especially narcissistic nation, namely Israel.
    Now I’m beginning to see Netanyahu and Israel as being “too needy”. By way if explanation, I recall seeing a film or television program a long time ago in which a young man breaks up with girlfriend because he decides she is “too needy”, and that she “clings” too much to the young man. As well as I understood it, this meant (at a minimum) that she was too desperate for a husband, apparently because she somehow thought marriage would solve all of life’s problems; and this meant that inevitably she would find marriage (and her husband) to be a disappointment. Furthermore, there wouldn’t have been anything the husband could have conceivably done that would have saved the marriage, because his wife was just “too needy”.

  20. Daniel Rich on May 27, 2014, 4:55 am

    Q; Israeli government tries to undo image of Pope at the wall

    R; That’s an image that you can’t whitewash with Photoshop.

  21. Kathleen on May 27, 2014, 8:42 am

    The Pope rockin the boat for justice.

    “serenaded by scores of children from the nearly Dheishah Refugee Camp, home to 12,000 people exiled from former family homes since the 1948 Arab Israeli war.”

    Bibi cannot roll this back. No way no how.

  22. Kathleen on May 27, 2014, 8:51 am

    Phil
    Professor Juan Cole “Turkish Court Ask Interpol to Arrest 4 Israeli ex Generals for Gaza Aid Ship Murders”

    • Ellen on May 27, 2014, 9:08 am

      I do not know where to post this but it sort of fits Israel’s attempt to undo the imagery and messages around the Pope’s visit.

      The disgusting and awful murders in Belgium at the time of his visit were played up immediately as an “antiSemitic” terror act. Responding to it as such was forced upon the agenda.

      Leaking out now are reports on evidence that it was a targeted hit job by a trained assassin. (Just viewing the surveillance video points to this ) with cold motivations, an assignment that have nix to do with emotions of fears, hate, etc.

      • Kay24 on May 27, 2014, 9:33 am

        That’s Beebs for you, never fails to seize on any situation, to make them look victimized yet again. Whether it is a call for boycotts or sanctions, any criticism of Israel and it’s numerous crimes, or calling it an apartheid state, it is time to holler “anti-semitism”.
        Their violent crimes against unarmed civilians, can always be justified, by the “they hate us, therefore we “defend” ourselves”.
        Beebs always cries wolf.

      • Ellen on May 27, 2014, 9:55 am

        It’s called exploiting murdered people for a political agenda. The snuffing out of their lives served Netanyahu ‘s propaganda machine and he made full throated use of it to turn the last day of the visit into an “antisemitism” fest. No denying that disgusting fact.

        And no one knows why they were murdered, but the hate crime line is looking weaker. It was too calculated,too professional. And the two Israeli individuals murdered were not just ordinary tourists.

    • Feathers on May 27, 2014, 9:46 am

      CBS radio correspondent Dan Raviv was guest on C Span Washington Journal. He covered some of the same information Phil’s article covered; more precisely, 50% of the information Phil presented: C Span showed images of Pope Francis at the Western wall, and emphasized that Netanyahu told the pope that the separation wall was necessary, and to be fair, your popeness, you should come to the wall of Israeli victims, which the pope did.

      In other words, Raviv’s appearance served the interests of Israel’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

      Come to think of it, Raviv recited MFA talking points so smoothly or even glibly, one might suspect that Raviv works for MFA.

      C Span moderator Greta Brawner did her bit to feed lines to Raviv, mentioning Iran only in contexts that gave Raviv the opportunity to reinforce the demonization of Iran.

      • Kathleen on May 27, 2014, 2:52 pm

        Thanks for that. Did you try to call in? Not hard. Be calm, cool, collected on phone you will get through. You could still call tomorrow during open phones and share your views about this segment. Will watch….open phones is a great place to call in your observations about this. Ask them to have a counter balance guest on this issue. Hell you could ask them to have Phil on the program. I have asked

      • Citizen on May 27, 2014, 9:13 pm

        @ Feathers
        I saw the entire C Span WJ show. Raviv was interesting in that he conceded small points to the Palestinian POV, but only in context for the larger Zionist POV. Greta Brawner fed him his lines, after pretending to inquire about another POV heard on the station. Clearly, CSPAN staff is being instructed how to pretend it’s open to all types of criticism of Israel.

  23. eileenfleming on May 27, 2014, 9:04 am

    All the images I have seen of the Pope in the Occupied State of Palestine he looks younger than his years and his smile radiant; but all the images of the Pope I have seen from Israel he looks old and tired.
    As a struggling Christian anarchist who has been to both sides of the Apartheid Wall 8 times since 2005, I have felt the same way the Pope looked.
    http://thearabdailynews.com/category/author-2/eileen-fleming/

    • hophmi on May 27, 2014, 11:38 am

      “All the images I have seen of the Pope in the Occupied State of Palestine he looks younger than his years and his smile radiant; but all the images of the Pope I have seen from Israel he looks old and tired.”

      Uh-huh. We see what we want to see.

      • Citizen on May 27, 2014, 9:07 pm

        So, how do you see Bibi?

  24. Mayhem on May 27, 2014, 9:21 am

    Referring to the photo of the kids holding up signs for the benefit of the media above the caption

    Message to the Pope at the wall in Bethlehem

    Young kids holding up signs that they wouldn’t even be able to read. Young kids who are not genuine refugees anyway.
    I suppose that is a bit more temperate than sending kids out on a daily basis to throw stones at Israeli soldiers.

  25. wondering jew on May 27, 2014, 3:20 pm

    “As for the security claim, the absence of Palestinian suicide bombers is a reflection of a Palestinian decision to pursue a nonviolent course, as Mustafa Barghouthi said recently.” Despite Barghouthi’s assertion I am quite sure that Israelis don’t see it that way and it is not yet clear how historians will see it. What is clear is that there was a spate of suicide bombings, the wall went up and the suicide bombings stopped. This does not prove causal effect. But Barghouthi’s assertions do not disprove causal effect either.

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