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CNN airs evidence Israelis used live bullets on Palestinian protesters

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Update: CNN’s Ivan Watson has done a terrific account of the shootings of the two teenagers in Beitunia last week, casting serious doubt on Israeli claims that Israelis fired rubber bullets. Watson airs CNN footage of an Israeli soldier firing a rifle when one youth went down, and then shows Siam Nawara, the father of the late Nadeem Nawara, pulling a twisted bullet from his son’s bloodstained backpack, which clearly has a hole in it. The father says he found the bullet in the bag. Watson airs footage of Nawara throwing a rock in the direction of the Israelis but concludes by quoting the U.N.: the youths were unarmed and posed no direct threat to Israeli soldiers.

Original post:

Could Israel’s horrific killings of two Palestinian youths during a demonstration a week ago become a diplomatic incident? The State Department continues to demand an investigation of the killings, though expressing respect for Israel’s “moral code.” The U.N. also wants an investigation. But Israel’s Foreign Minister tells the U.S. to bug out, accusing the country of “hypocrisy.”

The State Department also said that the shootings took place on Israel’s “soil.” But the youths were killed in the occupied West Bank.

Here’s yesterday’s daily press briefing at State Department by Jen Psaki, at 52:00 in the video above. Matt Lee of AP is asking the questions, as usual, and seems to doubt that Israel is capable of conducting a real investigation into the matter.

QUESTION: Yesterday you called on – you said that you were encouraging Israel to conduct a thorough, transparent investigation of the shooting incident in which these two Palestinian teenagers were killed. The foreign minister of Israel has reacted rather negatively to that and to your – to you in particular, saying that it’s essentially – I don’t want to mischaracterize his quote, but saying that it’s not appropriate for the United States to demand an investigation into an Israeli military activity, that the IDF is the most moral army in the – armed force in the world. And I’m just wondering: Do you stand by the call for the Israelis to conduct a thorough and transparent investigation given the foreign minister’s comments?

MS. PSAKI: We do. And we also have deep respect for the Israeli army’s moral code, which is exactly why there should be an investigation. And I believe in the foreign minister’s comments he also referenced a plan for an investigation or a desire to have an investigation, or the Israelis can call an investigation. We certainly support that. They’re in the lead; it is events happening on their soil, and we would support that effort.

QUESTION: Okay. And you don’t have any concerns about what such a – let me put it this way: Past investigations by the Israelis into their – into alleged Israeli misbehavior or alleged Israeli violence – I don’t know how you would call it – you have been satisfied with them? They have a proven track – do you believe they have a proven track record in self-investigations of this kind?

MS. PSAKI: I’m not going to make a sweeping comment about that. But obviously, they are in the lead, they should be in the lead, and we support their efforts to investigate.

QUESTION: All right. And do you have any specific comment about Foreign Minister Lieberman’s response to you and what you said?

MS. PSAKI: I don’t, no. (Laughter.)

JPost, Lieberman:

Foreign Minister Avigdor Liberman attacked the “hypocrisy” in the American and European request for a thorough investigation into the killings of two Palestinian teenagers, allegedly by the IDF, during the May 15 Nakba Day riots by Ofer Prison near Ramallah.

“We don’t need an American request to investigate the subject,” Liberman said on Wednesday during a visit to Ariel University in the West Bank.

“I reject any request and the hypocrisy we see worldwide,” he said.

Here’s video of the killings, from Nakba Day demonstration on May 15 in Beitunia:

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111 Responses

  1. seafoid
    seafoid on May 22, 2014, 10:28 am

    I think Jen meant Lieberman soiled himself. Again.

  2. seafoid
    seafoid on May 22, 2014, 10:32 am

    “But Israel’s Foreign Minister tells the U.S. to bug out, accusing the country of “hypocrisy””

    Yet when 4 Jews were murdered in France in 2012 Lieberman demanded an investigation.

  3. just
    just on May 22, 2014, 10:34 am

    No real surprise. Psaki just let it slip…..it’s our government’s sicko view of the entire mess that we have contributed so heartily to.

    “And we also have deep respect for the Israeli army’s moral code”

    makes me gag.

    We are complicit enablers of this horror.

  4. Kay24
    Kay24 on May 22, 2014, 10:53 am

    “We don’t need an American request to investigate the subject,” Liberman said on Wednesday during a visit to Ariel University in the West Bank.

    “I reject any request and the hypocrisy we see worldwide,” he said”.

    Now that was yet another bit** slap heard across the world. We have had many of that recently (as John Kerry would know). Wow, anyone would think ISRAEL is sending US billions in aid, weapons, and protecting our behinds at the UN against world condemnation. The arrogance from these criminals, who are acting so guilty, as they make such defensive statements, and blaming the video and victims. The lashing out at the hands that feed it, is breathtaking.
    Again, shame on us for taking this abuse, and insults, no? I guess they know who the boss of this relationship is.

    • talknic
      talknic on May 22, 2014, 11:07 am

      ““We don’t need an American request to investigate the subject,” Lieberman …

      As it happened in Occupied Territories and not on Israeli soil, the US/UN/UNSC could DEMAND an investigation.

      • just
        just on May 22, 2014, 11:13 am

        The UN needs to CONDUCT an investigation– forget about any demands for any Israeli ‘investigation’…they cannot be trusted at all.

        Hell’s bells– whenever anything happens anywhere to any Israeli– the Israelis descend all over the investigations.

      • seafoid
        seafoid on May 22, 2014, 2:46 pm

        Normally the shoot to kill stuff isn’t videoed. Israel can say the soldiers were attacked or whatever they fancy.
        This one is very dangerous for them.

        The nuts and bolts of the occupation don’t match the “jews care about human life” of the UK Board of deputies.

      • ritzl
        ritzl on May 22, 2014, 8:29 pm

        Yep. VERY dangerous. As Donald pointed out downthread, this is a call back to the whole history of Israeli obfuscations on many killings. This time they got caught in the lie, and it was broadcast with full context. Unambiguous.

  5. Sycamores
    Sycamores on May 22, 2014, 11:39 am

    Ms. Psaki:

    They’re in the lead; it is events happening on their soil, and we would support that effort.

    i’m surprise Matt Lee didn’t pick up on the Psakian Freudian slip.

  6. amigo
    amigo on May 22, 2014, 11:49 am

    These actions are part of a deliberate and concerted effort to provoke a violent response from Palestinians ( Intifada 3) which will allow Israel to take it,s place as the so called Victim and justify further and more aggressive actions against Palestinians and take the attention from the debate about who killed the so called Peace talks.

    Israel is like a cornered rat, (apologies to all Rats) that acts irrationally and usually ends up the loser.

    I look forward to the day when these slime ball snipers and their bosses are standing in the dock at the Hague getting their just dues.Maybe the Palestinians could get them in one of their prisons for a year or two.Love to be a fly on that prison wall.

    • seafoid
      seafoid on May 22, 2014, 2:48 pm

      “These actions are part of a deliberate and concerted effort to provoke a violent response from Palestinians ”
      Perhaps it’s just another day at the office for the IDF.
      The killings have been going on regardless of the state of play with the negotiations.

      • Woody Tanaka
        Woody Tanaka on May 22, 2014, 2:57 pm

        I agree seafoid. The notion that this is part of a new strategy to provoke the Palestinians is misguided, in my view. The Israelis have been committing these crimes since even before there was an Israel. The difference now is that the ubiquity of video cameras is starting to make itself felt.

      • Kay24
        Kay24 on May 22, 2014, 5:11 pm

        I think human rights agencies, including B’Tselem, have done a great job.
        Perhaps they should help install lots and lots of CCTV cameras in Palestinian and occupied territories, so that the criminals cannot get away with murder and lies. If they knew CNN and that video camera were watching the situation, they would not have been so brutal.

      • amigo
        amigo on May 23, 2014, 5:28 am

        “I agree seafoid. The notion that this is part of a new strategy to provoke the Palestinians is misguided, in my view. The Israelis have been committing these crimes since even before there was an Israel.”Woody.

        Woody, I did not suggest that these crimes are new.I am stating that the level and veracity has increased as is usual when Israel,s image/intentions are under international scrutiny.

        Maybe it,s me but I believe the numbers killed are on the increase since the so called peace talks started.Certainly the level of land theft/demolitions/and illegal settlement construction/new squats approvals are.

      • seafoid
        seafoid on May 23, 2014, 6:56 am

        Amigo

        Maybe the kill ratio has gone up but the IDF view of Palestinians is consistent over time- they are not much higher up the chain of life than vermin and they have no right to be there.

      • Woody Tanaka
        Woody Tanaka on May 23, 2014, 10:14 am

        amigo,

        I guess my thought was not that there has been any intensification, just that there is more reporting, so it seems that way.

    • Ellen
      Ellen on May 22, 2014, 3:56 pm

      Right, Israel wants that third Intifada so badly, they would carry it out themselves if they could.

      Fortunately (so far) Palestinians are not falling into that trap. The strategy is this:

      increase the attacks to provoke the Palestinians into doing something really stupid. (Sort of like Hasbarists attacking the intelligence, looks or mother of someone to suck them into some stupid loosing fight.)

      If the Palestinians keep their heads (stopping the rock throwing stuff might help ) Israel will loose as they become more and more vicious while the world is watching.

      Eventually supporting the Zionist project will become a liability to all, including Jews. Then Judaism might be able to free itself of it’s Golden Calf.

  7. just
    just on May 22, 2014, 12:04 pm

    Well, thank you CNN and Ivan Watson and the cameraman (did not catch his name) who took video of the IOF who was shooting.

    Hope this ‘satisfies’ Zach (I don’t see any Israeli soldier there), MY1 et al. Or, will they accuse CNN of editing, etc. Hasbara Central is probably in quite a snit…

    (thanks Phil– it is a very good piece!)

    • Bumblebye
      Bumblebye on May 22, 2014, 6:49 pm

      I think the cameraman was Karim Khadr (sp?).
      I expect the Israeli response to his filming of these premeditated murders will be to arrest him while they think up appropriate charges to disappear him for months on end.

      • just
        just on May 22, 2014, 6:54 pm

        I hope he’s under special protection. Thanks for his name– he deserves to be credited and thanked.

  8. Sycamores
    Sycamores on May 22, 2014, 12:14 pm

    that clinches it,
    the CNN video proves that the israeli forces use live ammo on Palestinian teenagers.

    after the israeli soldier fire his weapon another soldier took his weapon and seemingly remove it from the scene. caught on camera for the world to see.

    • David Doppler
      David Doppler on May 22, 2014, 12:53 pm

      I agree, Sycamores, the CNN video is extraordinary evidence. Starting around 1:48, we see soldiers in a group, one on the right sighting, then firing, and another soldier then immediately taking the weapon away. Almost as if the firing soldier’s “turn” was over. The collating of footage from CNN with two security cameras is also compelling. The testimony of the father with the backpack in which he found a bullet is also compelling. A masterpiece of reporting.

      The video of the Israeli soldiers will likely make it possible to identify the soldiers involved: young men making a tragic mistake, which is what happens in war all the time, but, unlike most occasions, this one caught on video for all the world to see and condemn.

      CNN has made an extraordinary contribution, their journalistic pride in having captured the live video overcoming institutional constraints on criticizing Israel.

      I imagine that, in some cases, PTS consists of such video replays going on uncontrollably in the minds of soldiers who find they cannot rest comfortably with their memories of war and what they did in the moment. Unfortunately, we will now see either official denials lacking all credibility, or, almost as bad, fake outrage by Israeli authorities blaming the young soldiers, like Rumsfeld blaming the Abu Ghraib guards.

      The school of opinion needed to end the occupation must grow exponentially from such compelling journalism.

      • Sycamores
        Sycamores on May 23, 2014, 4:10 pm

        Hi David,

        i respect what you are saying but i do see some things differently

        i agree that tragic accidents happen in war but this was not war it was the end of a riot. if my suspicions are right and i think they are, the soldier took aim and fire live ammo with intent. how is this an accident?

        the real tragic is that they think they can get away it and the sad thing is they probably will.

        however the CNN in footage is extraordinary contribution. the PTS of the families who lost their sons would dwarf the PTS of the soldiers that were involved.

        if one person was shot death we could argue was it an accident but two people murder one hour after the other cannot be called an accident. even with all the cameras on in the area it didn’t stop the soldiers from firing, what does the say about the soldiers?

        peace

    • JohnAdamTurnbull
      JohnAdamTurnbull on May 22, 2014, 1:18 pm

      Yup. Minute 2:05.

      What was that gun smoking?

    • Hostage
      Hostage on May 22, 2014, 1:49 pm

      Yeah, the sound suppressor was in full view all the time. It appeared to be an M-16 in the brief glimpse provided when the other soldier lifted it up and away from the tree limb that was partially obstructing it from view.

      • Elisabeth
        Elisabeth on May 23, 2014, 4:41 am

        Oh no, according to the IDF that was an attachment for firing rubber coated bullets:
        Regarding the CNN video of the Israeli security forces firing rifles at the Palestinian demonstrators at the moment when Nouwarah was shot, Lerner said the weapons being used had an attachment at the end of the barrel for firing rubber-coated projectiles.

      • Hostage
        Hostage on May 23, 2014, 7:11 am

        Oh no, according to the IDF that was an attachment for firing rubber coated bullets

        Whatever, in the video the guy fires the weapon twice in succession without reloading. The M16 adapters for special or oversized ordinance launchers that I’m used to are muzzle loaders. You employ a magazine on the rifle filled with blank cartridges and have to reload the larger ammo in the tube attached to the muzzle between shots. If you are carrying both live rounds and blanks you ordinarily spray paint the clips so you can quickly identify them. There are a number videos showing people with red spray painted clips, including the guy in the middle @3:43 in the CNN video. They are firing multiple rounds without loading anything in the muzzle adapters. It doesn’t prove anything, but most people use red markings on clips containing live ammo.

      • Elisabeth
        Elisabeth on May 23, 2014, 7:35 am

        Thanks! That was a clear explanation, even for someone to whom this is an unknown world.

      • Sycamores
        Sycamores on May 23, 2014, 2:55 pm

        Hostage,

        They are firing multiple rounds without loading anything in the muzzle adapters. It doesn’t prove anything, but most people use red markings on clips containing live ammo.

        i think it proves it’s not an adaptor for firing rubber bullets.

        am i correct in thinking

        the adaptor use on the M-16 in this case is not for firing rubber bullets, the soldier did fire twice in succession which would be impossible for a rubber bullet adaptor because rubber bullets have to be loaded singly. as you said in your post.

        from what i research suppressors on M-16’s are used particularly with snipers to suppress the muzzle blast, making it harder to figure out exactly where the gunfire is coming from. so the suppressor is not use as a silencer on the M-16 more like a muffler. seemingly it would be near impossible to silence a M-16 muzzle blast.

        i’m not familiar with fire arms let alone adaptors that’s the reason why i’m looking for clarification.

      • Hostage
        Hostage on May 23, 2014, 5:20 pm

        i think it proves it’s not an adaptor for firing rubber bullets.

        Not necessarily. It very well could be an adapter for rubber bullets. But it shouldn’t interfere with the normal operation of the rife, when it’s not loaded with the larger bore diameter ammo. When you use blanks to launch subsonic ammo, it usually doesn’t sound like regular rifle fire.

      • Sycamores
        Sycamores on May 24, 2014, 8:42 am

        thanks Hostage for clearing that up.

  9. Donald
    Donald on May 22, 2014, 12:43 pm

    One of the hasbara spouters in a now closed thread said this–

    “I smell another Muhammad al-Dura in the wings.”

    Which is true in a way. Israel shoots at unarmed people on a fairly regular basis–ask Gazans. But it only gets widespread coverage when it’s caught on film. Then the Israeli propaganda machine goes into overdrive, something they don’t bother to do with most of their killings. With Israeli atrocities, if it’s not on film it doesn’t matter, at least so far as the NYT and other “liberal” publications are concerned.

    • Hostage
      Hostage on May 22, 2014, 2:09 pm

      “I smell another Muhammad al-Dura in the wings.”

      Yeah, the useful idiots are out in force and toeing the Megaphone party-line: Pallywood again? IDF denies using live fire during “Nakba Day” demonstration (updates – new videos) http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2014/05/pallywood-again-idf-denies-using-live.html#.U347AJ9D5Rg

      The news accounts by the Guardian and others had already diagrammed the gun positions and estimated the shooter was 200-250 meters away, i.e. http://static.guim.co.uk/ni/1400606864312/WestBank_shooting_web2_2005.svg

      Judging by the quick camera pan in the CNN video the shooter may have actually been less than half that distance from the teens, and set-up well in advance of taking the shot, behind a barricaded firing position. It’s very unlikely that the soldiers felt their lives were in any real danger, since most them were just standing around and not trying to take cover behind the wall in front of them. At the distance indicated in the video its very unlikely that the shooter missed what he was aiming at and hit the teens in the upper body by accident.

  10. Ellen
    Ellen on May 22, 2014, 1:39 pm

    CNN has a scoop on this. They will not drop it.

    They have the soldiers shooting the boys on video. It will be interesting when Israel claims that CNN must have faked it and it is all an anti-Semitic conspiracy.

    • just
      just on May 22, 2014, 1:43 pm

      I fervently hope that it plays in a loop…….an endless loop of whole truth.

    • eljay
      eljay on May 22, 2014, 1:49 pm

      >> CNN has a scoop on this. … They have the soldiers shooting the boys on video.

      This means that CNN:
      a) Does “Pallywood”.
      b) Is just like Hitler / Nazi Germany.
      c) Has no “Jewish street creds”.
      d) Hates Jews.
      e) All of the above.

    • seafoid
      seafoid on May 22, 2014, 2:34 pm

      “all an anti-Semitic conspiracy”

      No need for conspiracies. The facts are damning.
      Judaism should be spun out of Zionism- there is far too much risk.

  11. Cliff
    Cliff on May 22, 2014, 1:46 pm

    CNN is antisemitic and jew-hating!

  12. Denis
    Denis on May 22, 2014, 1:54 pm

    This is going huge in a number of directions.

    Just think what sh*t CNN must be taking from GoI right now. Maybe even US State Dept. Good on them for stepping up to this.

    In contrast to the al-Dura case, the video evidence here is enormous. The freaking IDF shown firing!!! Note that the CCTV’s show at least 3 guys with some very serious video gear right in the faces of the dying young men. So there is a lot of video evidence out there somewhere. But that CNN footage is a forensic gold mine. For instance:

    That is almost certainly a 5.56mm slug, probably from an M-4 or M-16, the father holds up. And if you look at the view of the IDF supposedly firing that round at about 02:00 in the CNN vid, those look like M-4’s. But they look to me like they have adapters of some sort that would be consistent w/ the IDF plastic bullets that are also fired from this type of weapon. My point being not that it is or isn’t but that the evidence is RIGHT THERE! The weapons experts will sort it out.

    The biggest problem I have is that I know those 5.56mm rounds are designed to fragment when they hit the target. For one to pass through a body, fail to fragment, hit no bones, and appear magically intact in a backpack is . . . well, it’s a miracle, eh? But, again, thanks to CNN at least we have video evidence to hand to the weapons experts.

    Screw Leiberman and all the other Israel-firsters. This incident screams out for an investigation. Including autopsies.

    • Hostage
      Hostage on May 22, 2014, 5:54 pm

      Note that the CCTV’s show at least 3 guys with some very serious video gear right in the faces of the dying young men. So there is a lot of video evidence out there somewhere.

      Yes, some of it captured that rubber jacketed round. You need to remember that the terminal velocity after a hundred or two hundred meters can be about the speed of a major league baseball pitch. It doesn’t maintain the initial high muzzle velocity over its effective range. In any event, the digital cameras used by the professionals have high ISO sensors and big fast aperture lenses that can be used on a bright day to stop action of objects traveling between 100-200 feet per second, e.g. http://mondoweiss.net/2011/12/israeli-soldier-shoots-protester-in-face-at-close-range-with-teargas-canister.html

      • Shingo
        Shingo on May 22, 2014, 6:10 pm

        In any event, the digital cameras used by the professionals have high ISO sensors and big fast aperture lenses that can be used on a bright day to stop action of objects traveling between 100-200 feet per second, e.g.

        Just a small point

        What you say is true when they are capturing stills, but not so much when they are shooting video. The point about the lenses is true in both situations, but these cameras as still very limited in video mode. The resolution of the video frame is much less and image quality is not commensurate with the ISO and shutter speeds available in stills mode.

        That picture you linked to is clearly a still not a frame from video.

      • Hostage
        Hostage on May 22, 2014, 9:38 pm

        That picture you linked to is clearly a still not a frame from video.

        When you buy an HD broadcast digital video camera you are getting a device that can be used for taking high resolution still images.

        So you can make the same argument for the series of razor sharp photo images of the rubber bullet hitting the medic in the head. http://f8wee1vvia32pdxo527grujy61.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Nazzal.jpg

        Allison clearly said she was shown a series of images by a journalist who “photographed” the same boy who appeared in the CCTV video:

        On Friday after a funeral procession in Ramallah, I rode to an outdoor prayer ceremony with a Palestinian journalist who photographed Abu Nuwara’s final moments, the youth in the video footage.

        The question is what speed were the less lethal rubber coated rounds traveling at when they were purportedly 200-250 meters downrange? Certainly not the muzzle velocity (or the medic wouldn’t have been conscious, still standing, and cradling his head).

      • Shingo
        Shingo on May 23, 2014, 6:27 am

        I didn’t mean to appear pedantic Hostage,

        I haven’t been near broadcast HD video cameras in quite a while, so I am not familiar with their stills capturing ability. I got the impression you were referring to DSLRs which capture pretty high quality video.

        I absolutely agree that there is no way a rubber coated round would be anything close to muzzle velocity at a range of 200-250 meters. We have seen what rubber coated rounds can do at close range, so there is no way a rubber bullet at 200-250 meters would have killed the Palestinian boy.

      • Hostage
        Hostage on May 23, 2014, 9:23 am

        I haven’t been near broadcast HD video cameras in quite a while, so I am not familiar with their stills capturing ability.

        Me neither. My niece operated one for her school last year that had a sensor equivalent to an ISO 12000 and a creative mode dial that allowed you to switch from video capture to 5 images per second in sports mode.

        so there is no way a rubber bullet at 200-250 meters would have killed the Palestinian boy.

        No I would expect it to produce the sort of reaction seen in the series of images Allison obtained of the medic being hit. I don’t have any hands on familiarity with the rubber bullet ammunition system used by the IDF. Maybe Ira Glunts or one of our friends here who have served in the Israeli military can jump in? I am familiar with the blank cartridge and tube launcher attachments employed by US special forces with M-16 and M-4 rifles. They are designed to be muzzle loaded between shots. In the CNN video, the sniper fires @1:54 and again @ 2:04 without loading anything into the muzzle. So it doesn’t appear as if he is using the barrel adapter to launch rubber coated ammo.

      • Shingo
        Shingo on May 23, 2014, 9:27 am

        In the CNN video, the sniper fires @1:54 and again @ 2:04 without loading anything into the muzzle. So it doesn’t appear as if he is using the barrel adapter to launch rubber coated ammo.

        And there is lies the smoking gun IMO. Astounding observation Hostage. Unless the Israelis have a unique magazine that can load more than one oversized round at a time, then at least one of those shots had to have been a live round.

      • annie
        annie on May 23, 2014, 10:14 am

        smoking gun indeed.

      • Hostage
        Hostage on May 23, 2014, 10:58 am

        Unless the Israelis have a unique magazine that can load more than one oversized round at a time, then at least one of those shots had to have been a live round.

        Well, I’d still like to hear from someone who has served in the IDF and used one of these things. You can get an idea of what the witnesses mean when they say they heard live fire, by watching this shooter launch a practice grenade directly off an AR-15 using a blank round. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVpswkOa3fI

        It’s not anything like the live fire you hear in the background.

    • Hostage
      Hostage on May 22, 2014, 10:29 pm

      That is almost certainly a 5.56mm slug, probably from an M-4 or M-16, the father holds up. And if you look at the view of the IDF supposedly firing that round at about 02:00 in the CNN vid, those look like M-4′s. But they look to me like they have adapters of some sort that would be consistent w/ the IDF plastic bullets that are also fired from this type of weapon.

      Elder of Ziyon has two edited film clips up that show people firing American-made 5.56mm weapons with red spray-painted ammo clips and sound suppressors. http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2014/05/pallywood-again-idf-denies-using-live.html#.U36tgJ9D5Rg

      Here are the YouTube links
      * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASZ59s2EZlU
      * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYXIGKtE0mY

  13. Kay24
    Kay24 on May 22, 2014, 2:32 pm

    That CNN video was really making it very clear about what happened. As much as the apologists and even Lieberman, resort to lies, denials, and attack those who call for investigations, it was obvious, these two kids were brutally gunned down by the Israeli soldiers (it would be interesting to know who ordered them to do so). Only cowardly murderers will shoot an unarmed kid from the back.
    It will not be hard to prove this was yet another crime by the ruthless IDF, who deserve to be called monsters, thugs, murderers, and evil forces, and it is time the US stopped covering up, and supporting these criminals. If this situation was reversed and two Israeli kids were shot, by Hamas, imagine how many precision bombs it would have taken Israel to flatten Gaza, as “retaliation”.
    CNN has done a good job here.

    • Maximus Decimus Meridius
      Maximus Decimus Meridius on May 22, 2014, 2:45 pm

      Agree. I’m not a fan of CNN but credit where it’s due.

      But…. what now? It’s been proven beyond a reasonable doubt that those two boys were murdered by the IDF, and that those Israeli officials who cast doubt on the video’s veracity were indulging in cheap, nasty slander. But will anyone be made to pay for it? I doubt it. Remember the blatantly faked Mavi Marmara videos? When it was proven that they were fabricated, the Israelis just shut up, and few people challenged them about it.

      My guess is that the Israelis will do their usual routine – ie, conduct an ‘investigation’ which will, of course, ‘discover’ that the poor little lambs in the safety of their armoured post were ‘threatened’ by these kids. And it will be shoved under the carpet. Just like all the other times.

      • Kay24
        Kay24 on May 22, 2014, 5:17 pm

        I agree, the question is what now? Most probably it will be diffused in the US as usual, and we know what happened to Israeli investigating it’s own crimes before (like the flotilla massacre). Apart from the polite condemnations from around the world, this too, will fizzle into nothing.
        The US zionist media will make sure of that.

    • Ellen
      Ellen on May 22, 2014, 3:35 pm

      Yes, CNN did clear factual reporting. Will the NYT revisit this or is truth now too hot?

      Notice the sounds of crickets from Hasbara central? They must still be working on the talking points.

      If they cannot squirm out of it with lies anymore what will happen is the soldiers involved will the sacrificial goats. They acted alone, were rouge agents, blah blah.

      Unfortunately for the IDF that will also not hold up as they were issued the weapons and ammo and apparently there is a policy to reduce the population in desired sections of occupation. I. e. Move them or kill them.

      http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.591881

      • Shingo
        Shingo on May 22, 2014, 4:49 pm

        Notice the sounds of crickets from Hasbara central? They must still be working on the talking points.

        Yeah, where’s Zack and MY1 all of a sudden?

      • Kay24
        Kay24 on May 22, 2014, 5:18 pm

        Most probably waiting for their new talking points from the Israeli Ministry of (Mis)Information. AIPAC must be busy too putting out fires, and making threatening calls to CNN!

      • Woody Tanaka
        Woody Tanaka on May 22, 2014, 5:27 pm

        They’re hiding under some rock, like the cowards they are.

      • RoHa
        RoHa on May 22, 2014, 7:55 pm

        Until they turn up, I’ll do their job for them.

        Perhaps accidentally, but more probably as a result of some Palestinian cock-up, there happened to be a few bullets flying around. Those sneaky Palestinians deliberately flung themselves into the paths of those bullets just to make the IDF look bad. You can see it clearly on the video.

        I await my cheque from Hasbara Central.

  14. Woody Tanaka
    Woody Tanaka on May 22, 2014, 2:49 pm

    Now that CNN has the (literally) smoking gun video that shows that these kids were murdered in cold blood, I wonder what happened to MahaneYehude1, Mayhem, Zack S and all the others who were spreading blood libels and lies just yesterday???

    Oh, that’s right, they’re damned cowards, liars and immoral psychopaths, just like the Apartheid state they defend.

    • Mayhem
      Mayhem on May 22, 2014, 11:16 pm

      Amongst others who support the determination of the truth and have been exhorted to speak, I would like to say, if I am permitted, that the CNN report does not necessarily air evidence that Israeli soldiers used live fire.

      It seems so convenient that the bullets that supposedly killed the two Palestinian teenagers happened to pass right through their bodies and disappear into the ether. Offers by the Palestinian side now to exhume the bodies would probably prove futile. Why wasn’t there a call made for an independent post-mortem is the Palestinians are so sure about what has happened? However, the boy’s father Siam Noiuwarah has magically come up with a bullet that he has allegedly found inside his son’s backpack. No doubt Siam is highly motivated to lie if necessary to incriminate Israeli soldiers, whom he no doubt hates.

      Curious also in the video how the pro-Palestinian media vultures fly in only seconds after the kid collapses, as though they were waiting
      in the wings for their cue.

      Dahlia Scheindlin gives a balanced view at
      http://972mag.com/truth-tapes-and-two-dead-palestinians. I would add that this issue is very important because it will either demonstrate that:
      1. An Israeli soldier or sniper has defied Israeli orders and should be brought to justice
      2. The Palestinians have fabricated a situation for propaganda purposes

      • Shingo
        Shingo on May 23, 2014, 8:55 am

        It seems so convenient that the bullets that supposedly killed the two Palestinian teenagers happened to pass right through their bodies and disappear into the ether.

        They didn’t. The father of one of the victims recovered one of the bullets from his backpack.

        Why wasn’t there a call made for an independent post-mortem is the Palestinians are so sure about what has happened?

        Post-mortem by whom? An independent investigation would have to come from another state and the team would require Israel’s permission to enter the territories anyway.

        No doubt Siam is highly motivated to lie if necessary to incriminate Israeli soldiers, whom he no doubt hates.

        No doubt you and the Israeli leadership are highly motivated to lie if necessary to exonerate Israeli soldiers, whom you no doubt love.

        Curious also in the video how the pro-Palestinian media vultures fly in only seconds after the kid collapses, as though they were waiting
        in the wings for their cue.

        They were taking cover from IDF shooting at them.

      • Woody Tanaka
        Woody Tanaka on May 23, 2014, 10:06 am

        Mayhem continues to make posts that are the equivalent of Holocaust denial and blood libels. Why is he still permitted to spew his toxic hate here?

      • amigo
        amigo on May 23, 2014, 11:35 am

        “No doubt Siam is highly motivated to lie if necessary to incriminate Israeli soldiers, whom he no doubt hates.” mayhem

        No doubt he has been given plenty reason.I guess hating those who murder your son makes him an anti semite, eh mayhem.

        Zionists are the pillars of forgiveness, eh mayhem.

        You are so full of zio bs.

      • adele
        adele on May 23, 2014, 3:37 pm

        You know what Mayhem, I think WE all have it wrong. I think the journalists staged this all and those Palestinian kids were accessories to this fabrication. The journalists got a good reporting scoop and the Palestinian kids* earned some extra cash. Those pesky journalists masterminded it all (with CNN’s collaboration, after all CNN’s ratings have been dismal) and now poor Israel gets dragged through the mud and is made to look bad. Boo-hoo, Israel always ends up the victim.

        * My heartfelt condolences to the family and friends of Nadim Nawara (17) and Mohammad Salameh (16), may their souls be at peace, far from occupation and oppression. To the highest heavens.

  15. Chu
    Chu on May 22, 2014, 3:03 pm

    why is Matt Lee one of the only reporters who consistently asks tough questions?
    Zionists must be out for his scalp, like Helen Thomas.

    • Citizen
      Citizen on May 22, 2014, 9:00 pm

      @ Chu
      Yes, why is Matt Lee the only one regularly asking tough questions?

  16. Walker
    Walker on May 22, 2014, 3:13 pm

    I have a feeling the hasbarists are waiting for instructions.

    • Kay24
      Kay24 on May 22, 2014, 5:21 pm

      They must be at loss for words, for the words they keep regurgitating are not working here anymore. Without instruction, they are floundering.

      • MHughes976
        MHughes976 on May 22, 2014, 6:02 pm

        Sooner or later it must sink in that the Zionist plan and project could never have been put into effect without a degree of suffering that was widespread and inflicted with a determination that could not stop much short of cruelty and could not always pause and discriminate so as to spare everyone who posed no immediate threat. Here and there this is demonstrated with smoking guns.

  17. DICKERSON3870
    DICKERSON3870 on May 22, 2014, 3:47 pm

    RE:“CNN airs evidence Israelis used live bullets on Palestinian protesters”

    MY COMMENT: Perhaps one or more of the thousands of Israeli soldiers who resent having their hands tied by the IDF took this opportunity to give the IDF a little demonstration of how to appropriately deal with Palestinian “troublemakers”.*

    *SEE: “Thousands of Israeli soldiers protest ‘their hands are tied’ while serving in the occupied territories”
    Posted on May 2, 2014 by Annie Robbins

    A video recorded in Hebron (al-Khalīl) last Sunday by Youth Against Settlements (YAS) has set off a firestorm of protest by soldiers in the Israeli military. The video shows a soldier brandishing and aiming a loaded weapon at a boy who was clearly was not a danger to him. In the wake of the Hebron video, soldiers are “demanding that the state of Israel give them the opportunity to appropriately deal with the challenges they encounter in the field.”
    ENTIRE POST – http://mondoweiss.net/2014/05/thousands-occupied-territories.html

    • DICKERSON3870
      DICKERSON3870 on May 22, 2014, 3:55 pm

      P.S. PERHAPS THIS BETTER EXPLAINS WHAT MIGHT BE GOING ON: “The Dogs of War: The Next Intifada”, By Uri Avnery, Counterpunch, 9/03/11

      [EXCERPT] . . . The second (“al-Aqsa”) intifada started after the breakdown of the 2000 Camp David conference and Ariel Sharon’s deliberately provocative “visit” to the Temple Mount. The Palestinians held non-violent mass demonstrations. The army responded with selective killings. A sharpshooter accompanied by an officer would take position in the path of the protest, and the officer would point out selected targets – protesters who looked like “ringleaders”. They were killed.
      This was highly effective. Soon the non-violent demonstrations ceased and were replaced by very violent (“terrorist”) actions. With those the army was back on familiar ground. . .

      ENTIRE COMMENTARY – http://www.counterpunch.org/2011/09/02/the-next-intifada/

  18. James North
    James North on May 22, 2014, 5:02 pm

    If there were any remaining doubt about whether a coordinated Hasbara Central exists, their absence on this thread should remove it.

    • just
      just on May 22, 2014, 5:15 pm

      Yep. They’re still gasping for air/grasping their collective messy knickers at the sheer chutzpah of CNN.

      It’ll be interesting to see what bs they come up with now…

  19. Kris
    Kris on May 22, 2014, 5:26 pm

    I don’t know what to think of this, since no one is here to explain how these Palestinian boys made the brave, moral Israeli soldiers kill them.

    “Nowarah’s cousin Lina Nowarah described the teenager as a “caring person, passionate and loved everyone.”

    “He was an honor student at Ramallah’s St. George Christian school and had many friends. His family said he didn’t belong to any political parties and hadn’t been to many demonstrations. Nowarah’s mother had tried to talk him out of going to the demonstration on Thursday, but the teen decided to go anyway. http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/5/20/palestine-teenagerskilled.html

    JeffB, NormanF, dimadok, Mayhem, hophmi, giladg, tokyobk, jon s, miriam6, Zach S, bilal a, DaBakr, lisa Bandrea, MahaneYehude1 ? Where are you? Anyone?

    Surely yohah freeman will at least drop in to explain to us that God is always on Israel’s side, no matter whose side Israel is on?

    • tokyobk
      tokyobk on May 23, 2014, 12:12 am

      If you include my name here its because you don’t read and/or don’t understand what I write, which I can’t really do any thing about.

      I believe that the only solution in light of the failure of 2 states is one equal democratic state.

      I don’t support nationalism Jewish or otherwise and while I admire aspects of -cultural Zionism (that is the revival of Hebrew, the continuous settlement (as equals) in historic Palestine) I have never been a political Zionist, ever.

      And you can’t find any thing I have written here or elsewhere that argues otherwise.

      Lastly, the idea that I support the killing of unarmed or even rock-throwing Palestinians who are protesting is offensive but again it comes from your misunderstanding of my comments here about anti-semitism, not from anything I believe or have ever articulated.

      • Kris
        Kris on May 23, 2014, 12:31 am

        I’m sorry, tokyobk, I should not have included you in this group. I do apologize.

      • tokyobk
        tokyobk on May 23, 2014, 6:48 am

        Kris, no problem. I certainly understand the anger over any attempt to whitewash this.

    • MahaneYehude1
      MahaneYehude1 on May 23, 2014, 1:10 am

      @Kris:

      Don’t worry, we are here with you.

      Good Morning!

      • jon s
        jon s on May 23, 2014, 11:16 am

        Kris, You must have missed my comments.

      • Kris
        Kris on May 23, 2014, 11:23 pm

        Thanks, jon s, you commented in a different thread, and I did miss that comment. You said, “On the face of it the shootings look totally unjustified.
        There should be an impartial investigation and whoever is responsible should be apprehended, prosecuted and punished, by law.”

      • libra
        libra on May 23, 2014, 12:47 pm

        @Mahane

        Mahane, when last week you begged Phil to shut down Mondoweiss because it failed to criticise Palestinian terror and incitement, I can only think that this very incident on the previous was what you were referring to.

        Having now watched the awful video myself, I have to say I don’t blame you for trying.

    • ritzl
      ritzl on May 23, 2014, 9:40 pm

      Kris, bilal a is not remotely part of that group. Just sayin’.

  20. Philip Munger
    Philip Munger on May 22, 2014, 6:55 pm

    Where’s Zach S, with the inevitable comment: “There is no proof the men shooting are actually Israeli soldiers. They could be PA provocateurs dressed like IDF”?

  21. jimby
    jimby on May 22, 2014, 7:47 pm

    I think that the photos of the boys at the end of the CNN video are especially powerful. It shows 2 teenagers full of life. Those pictures were very carefully chosen and I thank CNN for that.

    • just
      just on May 22, 2014, 8:10 pm

      True.

      From haaretz — apparently they still have ‘doubts’:

      New CNN footage of Nakba Day killings fuels debate over deaths
      Film by news network fails to show conclusively whether Israeli army used live fire; news photographers at incident confirm Palestinian version.
      By Gili Cohen and Jack Khoury | May 22, 2014 | 9:56 PM | 11

      “CNN released new footage on Thursday, adding fuel to the fire involving the controversial killing of two Palestinian youths on Nakba Day, May 15, by Israeli forces.

      The video, filmed by CNN producer Kareem Khadder in the West Bank village of Beitunia, depicts a number of Border Policemen in the area, including one firing at the Palestinian youths. Within seconds the camera turns to the crowd, which by then was carrying away one of the youths who had been shot.

      While CNN stated that the video was inconclusive about indicating whether live fire or rubber bullets were used in the shooting incident, and Israeli expert told Channel 2 that the guns look like they are equipped for firing rubber bullets.

      The new footage also fails to answer the question of how the youths were killed at a distance of dozens of meters, and if live fire was used who was responsible for it.

      The Israel Defense Forces is investigating the incident in Beitunia but did not present its findings to the Defense Minister Thursday because of missing details. The army is trying to complete its information in order to determine the cause of the deaths of the two Palestinian youths, Nadim Nuwara and Muhammad Salameh. ”

      http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.592312

      poor things…….

      • seafoid
        seafoid on May 23, 2014, 1:27 am

        http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/22/footage-palestinian-boys-shot-genuine-btselem

        “Commenting on efforts to cast doubt on accounts of the affair in +972 online magazine, Dahlia Scheindlin, a public opinion analyst in Tel Aviv, attempted to explain recent comments: “Public figures are well aware that the postmodern mindset makes it hard to pin down facts.

        “Throwing out theories, no matter how wild, raises doubts even if far-fetched. Using words inaccurately, or not admitting to one’s actions is another form. Accusing the other side of full-out conspiracy and elaborate fabrications is another.”

        It goes back to Phil’ mother’s “Jews wouldn’t do that”
        They do, and then some

        Zionism is built on lies and bullshit.

  22. Cliff
    Cliff on May 22, 2014, 8:07 pm

    Seems like all the Ziofascist trolls aren’t commenting.

    Maybe they’re waiting for their canned memes from hasbara central.

    hoppy/wondering jew/troll s/trollyahude/etc. etc. etc.

  23. ritzl
    ritzl on May 22, 2014, 8:36 pm

    Good for CNN.

    I hope someone caches that video report. Who knows how long it will be public.

  24. crypticvalentin
    crypticvalentin on May 23, 2014, 1:04 am

    Haaretz has a different spin

    “New CNN footage of Nakba Day killings fuels debate over deaths
    Film by news network fails to show conclusively whether Israeli army used live fire”
    http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.592312

    • Hostage
      Hostage on May 23, 2014, 9:37 am

      Haaretz has a different spin

      Not so much, they just buried the lede in the 8th paragraph:

      Meanwhile, photographers from international news agencies who witnessed the controversial deaths of two Palestinian teens last week in the West Bank told Haaretz Thursday that Israeli troops shot the teens with live bullets even though they did not pose a threat.

      • Jackdaw
        Jackdaw on May 24, 2014, 4:00 am

        @Hostage

        And in a subsequent video testmony, former Palmachnik Benyamin Eshet, directly contradicts his previous video testimony with Zochorot. He had previously identified the burial detail from the Dahalmish Mosque incident.

        “The massacre was carried out by our brigade after someone thought they were shooting at us from there. I’ll tell you one thing. I won’t tell you there was no massacre. Who did it? I don’t know. Who buried them? I don’t know. I just know how they were killed. “

        As per the journal article, the Dahlamish Mosque was attacked (with Eshet’s PIAT) after shooting had occurred from within the mosque. To wit; no massacre.

        http://www.worldpolicy.org/blog/2013/01/22/toward-common-archive-reframing-roots-palestine-and-israel

      • Shingo
        Shingo on May 24, 2014, 7:49 am

        As per the journal article, the Dahlamish Mosque was attacked (with Eshet’s PIAT) after shooting had occurred from within the mosque. To wit; no massacre.

        The very quote you provided states there was one. What do you now understand about I won’t tell you there was no massacre. ?

      • Jackdaw
        Jackdaw on May 24, 2014, 8:21 am

        @Hostage

        So Obsidian’s ban was based on the Zochorot video of Y. Kahanovich?
        Kahanovich’s incoherent testimony?

        E: What do you mean you can’t tell everything?
        YK: Massacres and stuff.

        E: Tell us.
        YK: Not that we did to them – that they did; and then they all went into the mosque, or church, I don’t remember. At night it’s difficult to tell. And we couldn’t take them out. They had assumed we won’t go inside.

        E: Who was “they”?
        YK: The Arabs.

        If the Arabs are “they”, than Kahanovich is saying the Arabs committed a massacre.
        How odd.

        Maybe Hostage and Phil should apologize to Obsidian and revoke the ban.

      • Hostage
        Hostage on May 24, 2014, 5:25 pm

        @Hostage

        So Obsidian’s ban was based on the Zochorot video of Y. Kahanovich?
        Kahanovich’s incoherent testimony?

        I said ‘Imagine the people who died in transit’. Obsidian said

        The gradual exodus wasn’t the Bataan Death March. The refugees had to trek, at most, 30 to 40 kilometers to get out of the war zone.

        BTW. Many of the local Arab clans had summer and winter villages and it wouldn’t be uncommon for entire Palestinian villages to empty as a result of the (sh0rt distanced) migration from their plain villages to their mountain villages.

        http://mondoweiss.net/2014/02/political-destroying-intentionally.html/comment-page-1#comment-644247

        There is nothing incoherent about the statement made by Yerachmiel Kahanovich in that regard:

        YK: What didn’t we do? We shot, we saw them run away. They let them pass through Lod along a path down this specific riverbed and walk there, and whoever strayed from the path got a bullet.
        E: Tell me, what did it look like?
        YK: What it looked like? I sat on this hill with a Browning and underneath me below there went the caravan and whoever strayed sideways, tried to sneak into the bushes, got shot, and it was boring. And one day, one of the men – I won’t say any names – told me, I went to pull his leg. I said, when we grab the cow by the ass, forgive me, and blow then it straightens its horns. And down there because there… There was a cow there that ran off and this guy tried to chase it and I shot them both.
        E: Tell me about the caravan of refugees.
        YK: How did it look like? Like you always see in the movies, those who walk. Arabs on pilgrimage to Mecca, a caravan, with parcels. Like you see our refugees walking, from Germany. A parcel with a suitcase with something, like. Quietly, we were there along the entire stretch and once in a while they told them with loudspeakers, “Don’t stray from the path”, whoever strayed…

        link to zochrot.org

        Obsidian tried to refute that 2012 video confession by the perpetrator by citing the conclusions of some historians published years earlier who weren’t even there:

        “Yerachmiel Kahanovich Palmach soldier”

        Sorry. No massacre at Lydda. See, Myths and Historiography of the 1948 Palestine War Revisited: The Case of Lydda Author(s): Alon Kadish and Avraham SelaSource: Middle East Journal, Vol. 59, No. 4 (Autumn, 2005), pp. 617-634.

        http://mondoweiss.net/2014/02/political-destroying-intentionally.html/comment-page-1#comment-644365

        Maybe Hostage and Phil should apologize to Obsidian and revoke the ban.

        If you keep engaging in Nakba denial, you had better be prepared to join him. I won’t have anything to apologize about in any event.

      • Hostage
        Hostage on May 24, 2014, 8:33 am

        And in a subsequent video testmony, former Palmachnik Benyamin Eshet, directly contradicts his previous video testimony with Zochorot. He had previously identified the burial detail from the Dahalmish Mosque incident.

        If you are going to establish a meaningful contradiction between two videos, you need to provide links and quotes. Nothing Eshet said changes the fact that there was a massacre perpetrated by Yerachmiel Kahanovich, who fired the PIAT in question into the mosque and massacred stragglers during the forced march, which was what Obsidian denied, i.e.:

        Yerachmiel Kahanovich, Palmach soldier:
        E: And then you move to the heart of the country, you go to Lod. What did Operation Dani mean for you?
        YK: You know what’s a PIAT? You know this gun? I used it to shoot the mosque where they were [sheltering].
        E: What mosque?
        YK: In Lod.
        E: What do you mean? You mean the gun that you throw and it blows up in your face, right?
        YK: Let me tell you what it does – you make it like it was a beautiful painting by an artist. You think. He makes a hole about this big and inside everybody’s crushed on the walls from the pressure it makes inside.
        E: You arrive, before you get to Lod, you were at Jimzu and Kfar Daniel, and what did you do there?
        YK: What didn’t we do? We shot, we saw them run away. They let them pass through Lod along a path down this specific riverbed and walk there, and whoever strayed from the path got a bullet.
        E: Tell me, what did it look like?
        YK: What it looked like? I sat on this hill with a Browning and underneath me below there went the caravan and whoever strayed sideways, tried to sneak into the bushes, got shot, and it was boring. And one day, one of the men – I won’t say any names – told me, I went to pull his leg. I said, when we grab the cow by the ass, forgive me, and blow then it straightens its horns. And down there because there… There was a cow there that ran off and this guy tried to chase it and I shot them both.
        E: Tell me about the caravan of refugees.
        YK: How did it look like? Like you always see in the movies, those who walk. Arabs on pilgrimage to Mecca, a caravan, with parcels. Like you see our refugees walking, from Germany. A parcel with a suitcase with something, like. Quietly, we were there along the entire stretch and once in a while they told them with loudspeakers, “Don’t stray from the path”, whoever strayed… — http://zochrot.org/en/testimony/yerachmiel-kahanovich-palmach-soldier

        As per the journal article, the Dahlamish Mosque was attacked (with Eshet’s PIAT) after shooting had occurred from within the mosque. To wit; no massacre.

        I don’t think we need to deal with your logic about what does, or doesn’t constitute evidence of a massacre or the heresay portions of Eshet’s testimony. Binyamin Eshet doesn’t take credit for firing the PIAT or even witnessing the attack on the mosque first hand in his interview. He talks about seeing the aftermath of the mosque attack and claims he was asked to kill the Palestinians who volunteered to bury the victims of the Mosque attack and says they were murdered by Jewish militia members who volunteered to massacre them:

        E: The massacre in the mosque, were you there?
        BE: I was there, you know.
        E: You were there? You saw the massacre in the mosque?
        BE: I didn’t see the massacre in the mosque. I saw the men who pulled out the dead. Later you’ll hear what happened, if you already know. No, no I don’t want to, later I’ll have problems – I already got into trouble with that, with this journalist, that I said too much and later I…
        E: I’ll tell you what I know, and you tell me what happened. The massacre in the mosque…
        BE: PIAT, you know, one PIAT.
        E: How far were you?
        BE: I wasn’t there, I was where Israel Goralnik lost his arm. Along the same line, when the [Jordan Arab] Legionnaires came. They came from, they thought they would enter Lod, and then I was in the same line, about 200m from Israel Goralnik who picked up the grenade and threw it back.
        E: How do you know about the PIAT?
        BE: It was talked about.
        E: You actually saw it?
        BE: No. I just saw one thing. These guys should have been brought to justice. No, I don’t want to…
        E: Yigal Allon’s Gipsy.
        BE: Yes, I saw it only once when they fired the PIAT – it was in al-Burj, it was later. Afterwards I didn’t see. Listen, you’ve probably heard about those who had to bury those who…I don’t…
        E: Don’t you think it’s important to talk about those things?
        BE: 60 years, forget it. It shouldn’t have happened that way. There was something that shouldn’t have happened that way.
        E: What?
        BE: Not that PIAT. I’m talking about something else.
        E: About the cremation?
        BE: There was no cremation. There was an incident when they buried these people. They had to bury them. And then those who buried them… that’s it, and then…
        E: And then?
        BE: It was voluntary – they came and asked, who wants to volunteer? No member of the agricultural training volunteered. Those who did volunteer, they were all…
        E: After the massacre, you take the bodies out of the mosque, and then you have to bury them.
        BE: What do you do with those people who bury them?
        E: You know.
        BE: You don’t talk about it. They did.
        E: You took part in it?
        BE: No, they wanted me to participate and I didn’t go, it was voluntary.
        E: You know there was one who survived.
        BE: An Arab? Could be. How should I know? I’m just a regular serviceman, what do I know?
        E: They killed the rest…
        BE: Then we stayed one day in Lod, and then they took us away.
        http://zochrot.org/en/testimony/binyamin-eshet-palmach-soldier

      • Jackdaw
        Jackdaw on May 24, 2014, 12:19 pm

        Y. Kahanovich said the following:

        In 2012-“BE: What do you do with those people who bury them?
        E: You know.
        BE: You don’t talk about it. They did.
        E: You took part in it?
        BE: No, they wanted me to participate and I didn’t go, it was voluntary.

        In 2013-“I won’t tell you there was no massacre. Who did it? I don’t know. Who buried them? I don’t know.”

        A contradiction?
        And what about the leading questions about a cremation posed to the octogenarian?

        BE: Not that PIAT. I’m talking about something else.
        E: About the cremation?
        BE: There was no cremation. There was an incident when they buried these people. They had to bury them. And then those who buried them… that’s it, and then…

      • Hostage
        Hostage on May 24, 2014, 8:51 am

        @ Jackdaw replying to you here. Show us your evidence that Ben Gurion was a mastermind behind the effort to destabilize Egypt in the late forties. . . . Dispositive proof that Ben Gurion had nothing to do with Lavon’s rogue operation in Egypt. See page 87 of Shabtai Teveth’s book. Linked below.
        link to books.google.com

        Once there were official allegations of evidence and witness tampering, there was simply no way to assume the innocence of any of the parties involved, including Ben Gurion. Avry Eldad testified in his 1960 trial that officials had ordered him to commit perjury before the Olshan-Dori Commission and falsify his journals. Even Ben Gurion’s official biographer, Bar-Zohar, admitted that it led to the conclusion that the heads of military intelligence had instigated forgery and perjury in order to “plant” evidence that it was Defense Minister Lavon who had ordered intelligence chief Benyamin Gibly to carry out the abortive operations in Egypt. See Bar-Zohar, “Ben Gurion” page 288.

        Livia Rokach reported about a coded message which, among other things instructed the spies to “Inform us on possibilities of action in Canal Zone” and the fact that the Israeli spy ring was originally intended to serve as a fifth column during the next war, i.e. the Suez Crisis. The page you cited in Teveth’s book even reports there were instructions “to be on standby and to plan”. That page only proves that Ben Gurion suffered remorse when the ring was caught in a black flag operation, not that he didn’t know about its existence. Teveth’s book doesn’t prove that they were not part of Ben Gurion’s own plans to destabilize the region. In fact it proves they were. It says the team members were Egyptian Jews who had been brought to Israel two and half years earlier for a years training and sent back on an assigned mission. All of that happened before Lavon came on board, while Ben Gurion held both the premiership and the defense portfolio. Nothing Teveth had to say alters Ben Gurion’s role in establishing Unit 131 and participating in the ensuing decade-long cover-up of the botched black flag operation.

        On page 71 Teveth informs us that Ben Gurion knew all about the existence of the Unit 131 spy ring and that it had always been designated for fifth column action: Designated for action in hostile countries, 131 was initially placed under political control, exercised by a two-man committee comprising the head of the “Mossad,” who answered directly to the prime minister, and the IDF’s deputy chief of staff, who was then in charge of military intelligence. As long as Ben-Gurion was both prime minister and minister of defense, Unit 131 came under his purview. But when he resigned and his powers were divided between Prime Minister Sharett and Defense Minister Lavon, the latter, envious of the undivided control wielded by his predecessor, proceeded—without consulting Sharett—to do away with the supervisory committee. — http://books.google.com/books?id=2OrWmi-zXcAC&lpg=PA77&ots=TIP2GrUoqK&dq=&pg=PA77#v=onepage&q&f=false

      • Jackdaw
        Jackdaw on May 24, 2014, 1:57 pm

        @Hostage

        Rokach said: ‘TWO. Inform us on possibilities of action in Canal Zone. ‘

        ‘Possibilities’ means that there were no prior plans under Ben Gurion to destabilize the Canal Zone.

        You said, “This coded cable was sent to the Israeli spy ring which had been planted in Egypt many months before it was activated in July 1954. The ring originally was to serve as a fifth column during the next war.”

        Right. Under Ben Gurion’s watch the ring was to have served as a military fifth column. Lavon changed the ring’s mission to one of political destabilization.
        Thanks!

      • Hostage
        Hostage on May 24, 2014, 7:53 pm

        @ Jackdaw re: Rokach said: ‘TWO. Inform us on possibilities of action in Canal Zone. ‘

        ‘Possibilities’ means that there were no prior plans under Ben Gurion to destabilize the Canal Zone.

        Asking about the possibilities of action doesn’t imply that the Canal Zone wasn’t on a target list all along. There’s no need to draw any inferences, since Rokach and Shertok’s diaries explicitly say that Ben Gurion, Dayan, Lavon, et al had plans to destabilize the region. We have direct evidence of Ben Gurion’s plans to forceably colonize the territory allocated to the Arab state in Palestine plus Transjordan, after the creation of a Jewish state through partition. See the 1937 letter to his son Amos in Ben Gurion’s volume “Letters to Paula and the Children”, translated by Aubry Hodes, University of Pittsburg Press, 1971, starting at page 153.

        The Zionists advised the US government as early as 1943 that they intended to impose a solution on their Arab neighbors by force:

        “I have noted in discussions with Zionist spokesmen visiting Cairo recently a marked hardening in their attitude (possibly owing in part to increased confidence resulting from alleged large-scale clandestine arming by Jews in Palestine) which in several cases has taken the form of frankly admitting that it is idle to continue to talk of “negotiations” with Arabs, in balance obvious that any solution satisfactory to Zionists would have to be “imposed” on Arabs by threat or use of force and this latter the only realistic line of action to adopt.

        — Kirk link to digicoll.library.wisc.edu

        Nothing changed after 1948:

        In 1956, Ben-Gurion proposed the division of Jordan: “Jordan has no right to exist and should be partitioned. Eastern Transjordan should be ceded to Iraq [then under a pro-Western monarchy), which would offer to accept and re­settle the Arab refugees. The territory to the West of the Jordan should be made an autonomous region of Israel.”15 As for the Gaza and Sinai, Sharett’s diaries reveal that Dayan and Ben-Gurion began planning a war of territorial conquest against Egypt in 1953, even before Nasser came to power and turned to the Soviet Union for arms.16 Sharett bitterly opposed these plans, and was forced out of office for doing so, clearing the way for the 1956 Israeli invasion and capture of the Sinai, in collaboration with the British and French attack on Egypt.17 Given the history of Israeli designs on the Sinai, there is reason to suspect that this attack was not merely “defensive,” forced on Israel by Nasser’s radicalism and the Egyptian military buildup in the Sinai in 1955, though no doubt these were important contributing factors. In any case, there is little doubt that Israel would have indefinitely remained in the Sinai and perhaps annexed it, de facto if not de jure, had it not been forced to withdraw by a combination of blunt Soviet threats of military intervention and severe U.S. pressures.
        Finally, Dayan and Ben-Gurion sought occasions to seize the Golan Heights from Syria, even before Syrian shell­ing of Israeli settlements in the 1960s provided the pretext in the context of the 1967 war. As early as January 1954, for example, Dayan outlined plans to Sharett for Israel to create a series of “accomplished facts” by seizing the Golan if Iraq moved into Syria.18 Thirteen years later, of course, Israel did capture the Golan, along with Gaza and the West Bank.

        Critical Essays on Israeli Social Issues and Scholarship: Books on Israel, Volume III, SUNY Press, 1994, page 185 http://books.google.com/books?id=8TKkAR_xMIMC&lpg=PA185&ots=WoDo0bV6Sb&pg=PA185#v=onepage&q&f=false

        You said, “This coded cable was sent to the Israeli spy ring which had been planted in Egypt many months before it was activated in July 1954. The ring originally was to serve as a fifth column during the next war.”

        Right. Under Ben Gurion’s watch the ring was to have served as a military fifth column. Lavon changed the ring’s mission to one of political destabilization.

        Ben Gurion’s plans to exploit the Suez Crisis were meant to destabilize the region and fit in with long term Zionist plans dating back to the days Herzl to acquire and colonize the Sinai.

  25. amigo
    amigo on May 23, 2014, 7:08 am

    Zach S posted no less than 15 comments on the previous thread dealing with IDF thugs murder of unarmed Palestinian children.

    “http://mondoweiss.net/2014/05/palestinian-israeli-soldiers.html”

    And on this thread!!!!!!!!!!, Nada, nichs, zippola, zero, zilch sfa.

    Whats up zach, in recovery mode are we.Still trying to find those non existing IDF thugs–eh.

  26. Kay24
    Kay24 on May 23, 2014, 8:18 am

    It is all in the way they headline it. Yet another biased zionist member of the media, reports it:
    http://www.nbcnews.com/news/mideast/stone-throwing-palestinian-teen-shot-dead-west-bank-clashes-n106451

    Please note folks, they try to emphasize on the “stone throwing” Palestinian, and show a picture of a kid with something in his hand, NOT of the killers and their guns. They did not even mention that the other victim was not throwing stones, and away from the murderers. The blame always goes to the other side. Have we ever seen the a headline saying “unarmed Palestinian shot by Israeli armed forces”? We know that most victims are unarmed.
    They seem to consider stones a deadly weapon, compared to US and Israeli made deadly weapons, as if it can be compared.
    Yes, it is ALL in the way they report it, and how they downplay the criminals acts of Israel.

  27. wes
    wes on May 23, 2014, 8:57 am

    Looking at the cnn video is disappointing to the say the least
    what the hell
    How long is this spectacle going to go on for
    2 years,10 years,50 years.
    what a waste.
    both sides need to seperate,move back from there positions wait 49 days
    No attacks,no provocations.
    49 days starting month of june

    • just
      just on May 23, 2014, 10:01 am

      what on earth???

      Israel needs to keep its IOF goons to themselves and end the Occupation & their murdering, kidnapping, thievery and terrorism.

  28. jenin
    jenin on May 23, 2014, 9:44 am

    When I click on the link to the cnn video and then try to play the video it says “URL cannot be found.” Is it just me or did they take this down or something?

    • Kay24
      Kay24 on May 23, 2014, 10:03 am

      I can access it, so it might be something on your side.

    • Rooster
      Rooster on May 23, 2014, 11:14 am

      I got the message since last night through early this morning of something like, “URL not at server specified” despite multiple attempts at playing the link at multiple different computers.

      Just now, link is working. I will try not to call tinfoil hat on this one, but who knows? Story appears to be getting difficult to contain/control.

  29. David Doppler
    David Doppler on May 23, 2014, 10:26 am

    The video you’ve posted at the bottom is just the security camera footage. The link at the top to CNN is where the best video including the Israelis appears.

  30. SQ Debris
    SQ Debris on May 23, 2014, 1:04 pm

    Re the denial fest we saw here a couple of days ago (“video fake” “It’s all lies” etc) Here’s a link to CNN’s story. While it duplicates the video in this post it also includes a shot of the Israeli killer filmed at the moment of one of the murders. This is the best evidence thus far of the magnitude of the criminal behavior. The camera pans from the shooter to the protesters making it clear how much distance from, and how little threat they presented to the “soldiers.” I’m a little surprised this was posted by CNN. It’s a leak in the dam.

    http://edition.cnn.com/video/?/video/world/2014/05/22/pkg-watson-4a-west-bank-teens-shot.cnn&video_referrer=http%3A%2F%2Felectronicintifada.net%2Fblogs%2Fali-abunimah%2Fcnn-camera-catches-israeli-soldier-who-fired-killed-palestinian-teen

  31. eGuard
    eGuard on May 23, 2014, 2:30 pm

    We need a split screen with the videos. Add a precision second counter. Show original time of day with each video.

    How difficult can it be? What else would a good journalist think?

  32. SQ Debris
    SQ Debris on May 23, 2014, 5:39 pm

    The boy’s father ought to get that bullet out of the country and into a ballistics lab. It could possibly still have the young man’s dna on it, and and it bears the signature of the rifle it was shot from. The CNN footage clearly shows the face of one of the soldiers in the unit. It should be a simple task to identify the IDF unit that was located in the area where and when CNN was filming. That’s going to significantly pare down the number of rifles that need to be test fired for comparison rounds. The killer and his chain of command should be easily idnetified.

  33. Kathleen
    Kathleen on May 23, 2014, 10:52 pm

    CNN let this coverage through…HUGE. Wolf Blitzer…..let this through. The earth is shifting. Always the same though the totally inaccurate maps of what the West Bank looks like. Israel’s response “We have to determine what caused the result” That would be deaths..killings…why do they refer to murders and killings as a “result”

    Bless these young men’s souls and prayers for the families. More senseless killings

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