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What I said to the couple holding a banner with a swastika on it

ActivismNews
on 179 Comments
March on Washington DC, August 2, 2014 (Photo: Answer Coalition)

March on Washington DC, August 2, 2014 (Photo: Answer Coalition)

“What should we be saying instead, to make people listen and understand what is happening?”

The couple, with whom I spoke to on Saturday at the National Protest for Palestine in Washington DC, were holding a banner, with a swastika on it.

Upon seeing this sign, I immediately made my way over to them and asked them whether they felt their sign was a constructive, or destructive message, and whether they felt it would compel people to join us in protesting the atrocities that are happening in Gaza.

I went on to elaborate.

The swastika is a symbol of hate. It is a symbol of anti-Semitism, it is a reminder of the inhumanity of the Nazi regime. This symbol has no place in a protest that calls for peace for all peoples- Palestinians and Israelis.

The couple, and others on the march who emblazoned swastikas across their posters, told me they were using it to point out the irony of a once persecuted people, committing similar brutalities to another set of human beings. I reject that argument. That cruel piece of history does not need to be dredged up to chastise Israel. Instead, the universal simple moral truth, which sits enshrined within human rights law, is the only message that needs to be emblazoned on banners that chastise Israel and that call for change and freedom for Palestine.

Using a symbol of hate to call for peaceful justice, does not make sense. Using a symbol that carries contained within it, a sorrowful chapter of history for Jewish people, does not make sense. I speak as a person with a Jewish father and a stake in that history. Using that symbol, strengthens the position of those who do not wish to see the people of Palestine achieve freedom.

Upon hearing what I said, the couple put the sign face down, shook my hand, and asked, “What should we be saying instead to make people listen and understand?”

This question is key. This question exemplifies why this movement must have complete unity of message, and rest on a universal demand for human rights to be upheld, in order to end the war, end the occupation, and allow Palestinians their international right to self-determination.

This march was attended by approximately 20,000 passionate people from all races, religions and creeds. Peace activists, groups of faith, and unaffiliated individuals came to voice their moral indignation at the latest Israeli offensive that has, so brutally, claimed almost 1,800 lives throughout the Gaza Strip. The protest, like the many others all around the world, for the most part, represented what is good about humanity.

The overwhelming majority of protestors chose to display messages expressing concern and grief over the desperately sad nature of recent events. However, littered throughout those sentiments, there were a few voices that, I believe, will not help bring peace.

Those extreme voices become easier to reconcile with when such terrible atrocities are carried out against a helpless, innocent civilian population. The impunity the international community gives to these war crimes evoke a sense of injustice and anger that can as easily be negative, as it can positive.

This injustice and anger reverberates in each one of us. We are humans. We watch the news segments of pure devastation throughout Gaza, we hear the reports of blatant war crimes, and we look at pictures of the charred remains of children. These injustices make us angry, we are humans.

But what is needed now, more than ever, is the channeling of this anger for good. We need to be constructive, not destructive. Messages of hate are destructive, hurt the direction of the Palestinian solidarity movement, and take us all further away from living in a world that we desperately wish to live in.

Jordan Street

British born Quaker with American Jewish roots currently working for an international non violence advocacy NGO in New York.

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179 Responses

  1. Kay24 on August 5, 2014, 1:02 pm

    Bibi’s brutal war seems to be having negative reactions around the world.
    Jews are being attacked around the world, and this Israeli rabbi was attacked at a mall in Perth, Australia.
    http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jewish-world-news/1.609019

    Attacking individuals who had nothing to do with Israel’s despicable slaughter on innocents is horrendous. Bibi should think twice before waging collective punishment so violently next time. Perhaps if he was an honest man, he would realize that killing Palestinians to punish Hamas, is just as horrendous, or worse.

    • Shingo on August 5, 2014, 7:53 pm

      Jews are being attacked around the world, and this Israeli rabbi was attacked at a mall in Perth, Australia.

      He was not attacked.

      JA visiting rabbi from Jerusalem was threatened and verbally abused by a gang of youths in a shopping mall in Western Australia on Monday.

      Unacceptable behavior of course, but no one laid a hand on him. And yes, Israelis are killing babies, so the protesters have point.

      • sligoker on August 5, 2014, 8:07 pm

        Oh, so the thugs who threatened the Rabbi are merely protestors! How did they know that this rabbi even supported the Israeli government? This is yet another instance where anti-Zionism covers up anti-antisemitism.

      • MHughes976 on August 6, 2014, 6:07 pm

        I agree that it is wrong to assume or act in any way that assumes that anyone who is Jewish supports, or can reasonably be asked to express on demand a public opinion about, Israeli actions: it is acting on prejudice of a kind. It’s like demanding that Muslims tell us where they stand on 9/11 or 7/7. However, I couldn’t find any report on ‘The West Australian’ newspaper, which I might have expected had there been a really unpleasant incident.

    • eljay on August 5, 2014, 8:10 pm

      >> … this Israeli rabbi was attacked at a mall in Perth, Australia.
      >> link to haaretz.com

      Ian Britza, a state lawmaker in Western Australia, told JTA: “I was absolutely horrified. I condemn it in the highest possible terms.”

      Rather than condemn the attack, Mr. Britza should just take a page out of the Zio-supremacist playbook and tell the rabbi that while things may be bad in Australia, they are much worse in Saudi Arabia, Mali and African “hell-holes”.

  2. on August 5, 2014, 1:04 pm

    Kay24. Surely you have been around long enough to know that reports of Jews being attacked are quite often false, overblown, or simply made up.

    • hophmi on August 5, 2014, 2:33 pm

      Surely you have been around long enough to know that the response of antisemites to antisemitism is always to claim that Jews are falsifying incidents of antisemitism.

      • Mooser on August 5, 2014, 4:17 pm

        Surely you have been around long enough to know that the response of antisemites to antisemitism

        Oh, darn, for minute there, Hophmi, old horse, I thought you said ‘around here long enough’, but no gravy. So you aren’t willing to say where you’ve been “around” all those anti-Semites “enough to know the response…”? Gosh, if it isn’t here, your life must be terrible, all those anti-Semites around.
        Must be a big factor in your life, anti-Semitism. You have my sympathy, victimized as you are by anti-Semitism. And to think of all you have accomplished in spite of it.

      • eGuard on August 5, 2014, 6:39 pm

        I suggest strongly, Mooser keeps replying hophmi, and nothing more. That handles & sets the pins nicely. Outside, others will do the serious talking.

      • Mooser on August 5, 2014, 7:29 pm

        eGuard, you always roll strikes!

      • eljay on August 5, 2014, 5:14 pm

        >> hophmeee: Surely you have been around long enough to know that the response of antisemites to antisemitism is always to claim that Jews are falsifying incidents of antisemitism.

        That sounds incredibly similar to how Zio-supremacists respond to anti-Palestinianism.

    • Kay24 on August 5, 2014, 2:48 pm

      Oh yes I do. Some are what can be called “false flag” incidents. This may be to keep the eternal claims of victimization going or some other agenda.

      This one from an Israeli filmmaker:
      “The Aubagne International Film Festival has called on Israeli filmmaker Yariv Horowitz to retract his claims, widely reported in Israeli media, that he was the victim of a vicious anti-Semitic beating by “Arab youths” that left him unconscious while he was present at the festival earlier this month.:

      http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/israeli-director-yariv-horowitz-must-retract-false-claim-anti-semitic-attack-says

      And the one covered by Mondoweiss:

      http://mondoweiss.net/2014/07/synagogue-attributed-semitism.html

      Some are against Israel for it’s crimes, but they quickly claim it is anti-semitism.
      It plays better in the world and gains more sympathy. At this time, I do think people are so mad at Israel, and may take their anger out of some innocent person on the streets.

      • Justpassingby on August 5, 2014, 3:57 pm

        hophmi

        Jewish student caught painting Swastikas on her own door then claiming Anti-Semitic Attack
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLt5U7VcHw8

        And that is one of MANY cases.

      • hophmi on August 6, 2014, 11:52 am

        The responses here indicate two things:

        1. Most people at Mondoweiss not only do not reject the presence of swastikas at pro-Palestinian rallies; they welcome them.

        2. Most at Mondoweiss not only fail to condemn the huge rise in antisemitic attacks; they question whether they’ve actually occurred.

      • just on August 6, 2014, 11:59 am

        Too bad, so sad, hophmi. I am happy for you that you got your “Protective Edge” back– where have you been while the slaughter of the Palestinian people continued?

      • talknic on August 6, 2014, 12:18 pm

        @ hophmi “The responses here indicate two things”

        You’ve done a statistical analysis? WOW!!!

        Say …. why didn’t you include it?

      • Mooser on August 6, 2014, 6:16 pm

        “I am happy for you that you got your “Protective Edge” back– where have you been while the slaughter of the Palestinian people continued?”

        I mean, is that, or is that not, a gob-smacking example of Zionist effrontery?
        Hophmi is just going to pretend Polpotive Edge never happened! “I know” says Hophmi, “I’ll just skreech louder than ever about anti-Semitism, without ever conceding that maybe something has happened which precipitates these events. They’ll never figure it out! I’m a Hasbara genius, and when I tell ’em about my classical piano playing, they will know a superior being has arrived in their midst!”

      • Kay24 on August 5, 2014, 4:23 pm

        No, you are the denier, I did not say there weren’t ANY, I just listed a couple of frauds, who want to act victimized. Didn’t they teach you to read properly at those hasbara training camps? Read comments carefully before embarrassing yourself and calling others names.

      • marc b. on August 5, 2014, 4:52 pm

        kay, hophmi is the embodiment of a paraphrase. “if it wasn’t for bad luck, I wouldn’t have any luck at all.” if he’s not embarrassing himself, he’s probably asleep.

      • hophmi on August 5, 2014, 4:59 pm

        No, you implied that there was a pattern of falsified antisemitic incidents in reply to another person here who made the same claim, all in response to a post from someone who criticized the proliferation of Nazi emblems at pro-Palestinian rallies.

        You’re underplaying antisemitism, which is a theme here.

      • Mooser on August 5, 2014, 5:31 pm

        “You’re just a denier.”

        Is Neil Diamond litigious? Cause I feel a parody comin on!

      • Mooser on August 5, 2014, 5:42 pm

        “You’re underplaying antisemitism, which is a theme here.”

        Anti-Semitism is a theme where Hophmi? Where is here Hophmi?

        Oh, this is useless! Look Hophmi, how much, and what things are you owed for anti-Semitism? Maybe we could settle all this right now, or at least put some kind of a value on it. How much are you owed for the anti-Semitism in the world? And what are you owed? Maybe if you could tell us, we could meet your demands.

      • just on August 5, 2014, 5:56 pm

        Such short notice, I’ll work on the parody…

      • Mooser on August 5, 2014, 8:15 pm

        “You’re underplaying antisemitism, which is a theme here.”

        I gotta hand it to ya’ Hophmi! You are back in full cry! Oh, you beat a purely tactical retreat to Syria while “Protective Edge” was being perpetrated, and even dropped out for a day or two,
        But now you are back, as if Protective Edge never happened. And after all why should a little thing like that even be acknowledged when there are people who might use swastikas as a visual shorthand for oppressive Israeli actions?

      • eljay on August 6, 2014, 6:37 pm

        >> hophmi: The responses here indicate two things …

        1. Non-Zionists at MW have varying opinions on different issues.
        2. Every Zio-supremacist at MW:
        – defends Jewish supremacism in a supremacist “Jewish State”;
        – is an apologist for past and ON-GOING (war) crimes committed by Israel; and
        – believes that Israel should be absolved of its obligations under international law.

      • Kay24 on August 5, 2014, 6:08 pm

        Read carefully, and you do know the meaning of “some” don’t you?

        “Oh yes I do. Some are what can be called “false flag” incidents.”

        Aw what sensitivity when it comes to Israel. Give up trying to do hasbara work here, it is not working. I guess when you have nothing to gripe about, you make mountains out of molehills.

      • Mooser on August 5, 2014, 7:31 pm

        “I guess when you have nothing to gripe about, you make mountains out of molehills.”

        Kay, you know how those molehills are. Connected by tunnels every one of ’em!

      • RoHa on August 6, 2014, 3:54 am

        “Oh, this is useless! Look Hophmi, how much, and what things are you owed for anti-Semitism? Maybe we could settle all this right now, ”

        No, Mooser, you can’t. Hophmi does not lead a rich, full, life in the way we do. He has no interest in jazz organ. He doesn’t really care about commas. If he didn’t whine about anti-Semitism and Jewish self-determination, his life would be totally empty. He won’t give it up.

      • hophmi on August 6, 2014, 12:05 pm

        “No, Mooser, you can’t. Hophmi does not lead a rich, full, life in the way we do. He has no interest in jazz organ. He doesn’t really care about commas. If he didn’t whine about anti-Semitism and Jewish self-determination, his life would be totally empty. He won’t give it up.”

        LOL. You’re projecting, my man. This is a small bit of what I do in life. I just type really fast.

      • Mooser on August 6, 2014, 12:14 pm

        ” I just type really fast.”

        Yes, you do type well. You’re quite a typist. Yes sir, Hophmi, I’ll give you that, you can type. Don’t try saying anything while you, it’ll just bring your wpm down.
        And I’ll give you this, too; you are always true to your type!

      • hophmi on August 6, 2014, 12:17 pm

        I wonder what Jordan Street thinks of the fact that most people find fault with him for doing the right thing.

      • Mooser on August 6, 2014, 12:16 pm

        “He has no interest in jazz organ”

        Whewww! that’s a relief! I was worried. Nobody likes competitiion. And besides, Jazz organ involves the blues, a lot. Does Hophmi seem, well, blue-ish to you? He doesn’t look Blue-ish.

        Nope, Hophmi should stick to the vintage-whine business.

      • hophmi on August 6, 2014, 12:22 pm

        “He has no interest in jazz organ.”

        He’s right. My piano training was all classical, and despite several entreaties, I never took up the organ. I’ve played a Bach-Busoni transcription; that’s about as close as I’ve gotten to organ playing. I’ve also played music of Cesar Franck; he was an organist, and his piano music is organ-like.

      • Mooser on August 6, 2014, 2:38 pm

        ♫Anti-Semitism isn’t just in fairy tales!
        They’re always after a big balmalocha like me!
        Nazis out to get me, that’s the way it seemed.
        But at Mondoweiss, I knew they’d hear my pleas!

        And then I saw her face!
        Oy She’s a Denier!
        All my whines,
        Don’t enter her mind!

        Oy Gevaaaalllt,
        She’s a denier, we must decry her.
        Make her listen to me!
        So kvetch’s old Hophmi.

      • Mooser on August 6, 2014, 5:17 pm

        “He’s right. My piano training was all classical, and despite several entreaties”

        And I bet you even know how to get to Carnegie Hall!

        I like you Hophmi, you’re a regular guy, there’s no ‘side’ to you whatsoever! You seem, in spite of your many accomplishments, almost immune to pretension. Not the kind of guy who would seize the smallest and most unrelated pretext to prove he’s better than other people. Nope, not our Hophmi!

        Okay, you were at one time, an intermediate-level pianist, like many, and your Mom begged you not to stop playing, entreating you: “But Hophila, what do you mean, you’re quitting, when we paid for all those lessons?”

        Besides, Hophmi, you don’t wanna have nothin’ to do with Hammond organs. You know what kind of people use Hammond organs in their churches and entertainment.

      • Mooser on August 6, 2014, 5:31 pm

        “I wonder what Jordan Street thinks of the fact that most people find fault with him for doing the right thing.”

        I’m sure he’s fully capable of coming here and telling us for himself, considering he can face down swastika-wielding pro-Palestinian demonstrators. Ought to be no problem for him.

        Hophmi, are you now setting up pins for other people, too?

    • Pixel on August 6, 2014, 10:10 am

      .
      @Giles

      +10

  3. Anon y Mouse on August 5, 2014, 1:14 pm

    Nuance is a tough thing to ask for during a slaughter, and zionists get offended no matter what is on your sign.

    Here is a good article on the subject: http://www.salon.com/2010/07/01/godwin/

    • Chu on August 5, 2014, 3:37 pm

      “Kevin Drum writes that it’s “time to repeal Godwin’s Law” — at least the distorted version which purports to prohibit all comparisons to German crimes — labeling it an “an endlessly tiresome way of feigning moral indignation.” Kevin adds: ”WWII analogies are extremely useful because they’re familiar to almost everyone.”

      [Greenwald] I agree: the very notion that a major 20th Century event like German aggression is off-limits in political discussions is both arbitrary and anti-intellectual in the extreme.”

      • Pixel on August 6, 2014, 11:11 am

        .

        Setting swastikas aside for a minute, one major problem has been the intentional co-opting by Zionism of the term “holocaust, “as in “THE” Holocaust (registered trademark here.)

        The term began with a sacred connection to part of the human suffering experienced during WWII in Germany by Communists, homosexuals, gypsies, Jehovah’s Witnesses, anti-socials, intellectuals, some clergymen, some POW’s, criminals, mentally and physically handicapped, journalists, political prisoners, Nazi opponents and like ‘undesirables’, as well as Jews, etc, etc., etc., who were dumped in camps under sub-human conditions where they died of starvation, overwork, disease, et al.

        Over time the term morphed into a weapon that was intentionally and continuously used to shame and silence all critics. To now globally use and even overuse any and all terms “kidnapped” by Zionism diminishes the power they hold over them. In neutralizing these terms, it empowers everyone else. A major part of the larger battle against Zionism is the process of people reclaiming their/our power.

  4. LanceThruster on August 5, 2014, 1:42 pm

    It seems to me if Israel chafes at being compared to Nazis, the first thing they need to do is to stop acting like Nazis.

    • Mooser on August 5, 2014, 7:37 pm

      And gosh, I really hate to point this out, but the Nazi crimes against the Jews were accompanied by the Nazi crimes against (uh-oh) the occupied peoples in the countries they invaded or took over. And those are, regime-to-regime, fully open for comparison, as they were used, weren’t they, to set the standards for occupations being criminal? And they were against all sorts of people.

      • just on August 5, 2014, 7:52 pm

        food for thought……

    • Pixel on August 6, 2014, 11:13 am

      .
      I recently overheard someone saying, in that regard, “If the jackboot fits, wear it.”

      Ouch.

  5. chocopie on August 5, 2014, 1:48 pm

    If I saw anyone displaying a swastika at a rally to support the Palestinians of Gaza, I would immediately assume they’re a mole trying to discredit the movement for justice.

    • annie on August 5, 2014, 2:15 pm

      chocopie, you and me too! i’ve been to tons of rallies here in the US and have seen very very little this stuff being referenced, ever. and i’ve looked at literally tons of photos and footage in preparation for this the worldwide protest post (which is updated daily btw for anyone interested) and sometimes in states in the ME do you see the burning of the israeli flag or other highly inflammatory signs (allegations of genocide notwithstanding but i consider that fact and reality and i think it’s quite appropriate) maybe some in south america albeit rarely, but not in the US.

      anyway, i’ve heard literally dozens of these kinds of accusations tho, generally allegations people are screaming anti semitic stuff ( i always wonder, so where’s the video!!) and i always say to people, take a photo of it or record it.

      and here we have an article about it and there’s not even an accompanying photo, which frankly i find disappointing and disconcerting since it’s the point of the article, other than the ‘what we should all do’ instructional aspect.

      • Mooser on August 5, 2014, 3:20 pm

        Absolutely. Annie, would you so much as touch the handle on a swastika sign, let alone hold it up in a street demonstration? I’m thinkin, nahhh, you wouldn’t.
        And of course, the first thing one does when you see somebody holding up a swastika at a street demo is go over and talk to them, sure why not, they’ll be perfectly reasonable, amenable to conversation….Hmmmmm

      • french_jew on August 5, 2014, 4:54 pm

        It’s also because in the US the political sector which has antisemitic doctrines, ie the anti-government right, really is not likely to support a third world struggle for justice either.
        Another political sector whose doctrine can potentially become antisemitic is the zionist christian right, but they are pretty happy with jews making aliya to go and kill arabs so they are not likely to be present at these protests either.

        However this would be a US centric view. Here in France there are definitely some antisemitic far right groups (which are getting more powerful by the day, the french far right is dividing into “pro jewish” and “pro arab” factions, both of which having different view of who is their better ally in their teleogical fight for the west, the white man, or the eternal french nation) who timidly attend these protests. However they are also met with strong opposition from their mainstream organizers: the NPA (far left), the PIR (anticolonial french-arab movement) and so on.

        It’s however important to separate 3 things. 1 Antisemitism, which is an old political doctrine fundamentally related with western modernity, it has it’s literature, it’s goals and it’s ideological framework. 2 Mindless antijewish violence and words which might erupt as forms of resentment towards Israeli horrors. 3 other forms of antijudaism, which can come out of, say, traditional christian or islamic religious rivalries with judaism.
        Saying this, the fluidity of information can make it easy for individuals to transfer from one of these to another.

        Those are three completely different things which are often labelled into one “antisemitic” category when they shouldn’t. Nonetheless, I think that it is important that the Palestine solidarity movements, whether the solidarity comes out of humanism, leftism, panislamism, panarabism, third worldism…. identify these kind of phenomenons if they erupt in their ranks. And I think that it’s an absolute duty for antizionist jews to work on how to approach each of these phenomenons when they erupt, and not tap their ears thinking that it’s all false flags and a big conspiracy (even if little false flags or little conspiracies can happen eventually).

      • on August 5, 2014, 7:18 pm

        i think the article is hilarious. but having been to multiple protests in d.c. i can safely say i have seen swastikas. they have been far and few between. but ya’ll are absurd to want to deny the possibility. ill take a photo next time and send it your way if that will make you feel better about the reality of it existing. and i agree it may be a plant — but i also don’t see anyone asking them to take it down which is a bit disconcerting. and not something iw ould feel personally comfortable doing…

      • Mooser on August 6, 2014, 5:35 pm

        “ill take a photo next time and send it your way if that will make you feel better”

        There we go! “unverified” will verify it! Problem solved.

    • just on August 5, 2014, 7:44 pm

      very good point, chocopie.

    • MRW on August 6, 2014, 1:27 am

      Me too, chocopie. This Israeli soldier said such agent provocateur behavior is commonplace even in Israel.

  6. Sand on August 5, 2014, 1:52 pm

    Monopoly over symbolism and the irony.

    “…The word “swastika” comes from the Sanskrit svastika – “su” meaning “good,” “asti” meaning “to be,” and “ka” as a suffix.

    Until the Nazis used this symbol, the swastika was used by many cultures throughout the past 3,000 years to represent life, sun, power, strength, and good luck…”

    http://history1900s.about.com/cs/swastika/a/swastikahistory.htm

    • piotr on August 5, 2014, 5:07 pm

      Swastika remains a sacred Hindu symbol, but Nazi swastika is a mirror image of the ancient symbol used in India. As a simple geometric motif, it appeared in many cultures. But if it does not appear in the Hindu form, and people using it are not wearing dhotis, I would assume Nazi inspiration.

      • Another Steve on August 5, 2014, 9:56 pm

        You’re absolutely right that in this context, the swastika is meant to evoke comparisons with the Nazis and dismissing its use as a Hindu symbol is disingenuous. I understand what people are trying to say by displaying the image at protests, but it doesn’t help get your point across.

        Also, the idea that the Nazi swastika is a mirror image of the Hindu version is erroneous. A quick image search of

        hindu swastika

        shows both left-handed and right-handed configurations, but with the right-handed version — same as the Nazis — more common. The Nazis borrowed this ancient symbol because they claimed to represent the descendants of the original Aryans, the people who are believed to have invaded India in ancient days. The word “Aryan” is from Sanskrit and means something like “the noble one.”

        Today, you can read Indian papers and read discussions of the Aryans and Dravidians, the major ethnic division in India.

    • RoHa on August 6, 2014, 4:15 am

      Japanese cartographers use the Hindu swastika to indicate a Buddhist temple. You sometimes see one one the maps of the district they set up next to the railway stations.*. Some People Of A Certain Sort complained about this being anti-something. Likewise about it appearing on a Pokemon card. The cartographers ignored them. Nintendo took it off the international version of the card.

      (*Very necessary. If you ever had any doubts about the fundamental craziness of the Japanese, learn the address system. The best way to find a place is to order a pizza for that address and then follow the delivery guy.)

  7. Chu on August 5, 2014, 1:59 pm

    ” …(this movement must have complete unity of message), and rest on a universal demand for human rights to be upheld, in order to end the war, end the occupation, and allow Palestinians their international right to self-determination.”

    Tell that to the Israeli gov’t. The swastika is also symbol of fascism. I understood the message. Look around at the world protests – many are all using swatiskas, which are probably used to shame the Jewish State to stop their atrocities against an imprisoned population – and perhaps it will wake up fellow Jews.

    • Mooser on August 5, 2014, 3:14 pm

      “Look around at the world protests – many are all using swatiskas, which are probably used to shame the Jewish State to stop their atrocities against an imprisoned population – and perhaps it will wake up fellow Jews.”

      Careful there, Chu, if you’ll excuse me. Are you saying the organizers of the demonstrations are condoning the use of swastikas as visual aids in demonstrations against Israel’s actions? Cause that would be, well, unfortunate.
      Will it “wake up Jews”? Oh, you bet! But I’m thinkin’ they’ll get up on the wrong side of the bed, for whatever that’s worth.

      • Chu on August 5, 2014, 3:28 pm

        I couldn’t agree more. Here’s a fine example of an Upper West side case. http://forward.com/articles/203170/convergence-of-hate/

      • annie on August 5, 2014, 6:44 pm

        chu, i don’t want to burst your bubble but what the author saw in the upper east side was this:

        STOP

        FUNDING

        ISRAEL

        she even said: to see even this mildly anti-Israel graffiti was a surprise

        radical no doubt.

        and it appears both the photographs in the article were from foreign countries. the one on top, note the asian font in the background ( 2 signs with asian and english which indicates to me this is not new york) and at the base the caption says:
        A student in El Salvador marches with a disturbing mock-up of the Israeli flag.

      • Chu on August 5, 2014, 8:35 pm

        Annie, I was being sardonic. I’ll try to add a ‘*’ to make a note. I try not to use the (sarcasm) in quotes- a little overdone i’d say.

      • MRW on August 6, 2014, 1:11 am

        annie,

        Which Eisner followed with (meaning, followed the STOP FUNDING ISRAEL sign):

        For the first time since we moved to the neighborhood a couple of years ago, we felt uncomfortable, targeted, as people who care about Israel and as Jews.

        Though we share serious misgivings about the way the military conflict in Gaza began and is being prosecuted [Hasbara instruction to include], and we grieve for the horrendous loss of life [Hasbara instruction to include], we also believe that Israel does have a right to defend itself against a terrorizing organization that seeks its obliteration [Which it’s not; witness the recent 10-point Hamas peace plan Israel blew off the table].

        She felt uncomfortable? Targeted? How does Ms. Eisner think the Palestinians feel, which the funding of Israel is causing?

        What profound gall. And even more galling is her attaching this to anything American in value. She’s banking a foreign country as if it were part of the warp and woof of the United States, and expects us not only to go along with it, but to approve of their actions. Shame on her.
        ——————–

        EDIT: At least the German Jews had something inside their country to feel uncomfortable and targeted about. It was happening around them. This cheap shot of likening what happened inside Germany to Jews to the perfectly correct American reaction to Israeli behavior is despicable.

      • W.Jones on August 5, 2014, 4:31 pm

        Mooser,

        As you know, there are some intense rightwing individuals who talk about wiping out Palestinians or Muslims. Is it helpful or harmful to ask them “Isn’t that the same kind of thing that the Nazis did?” Perhaps this will encourage them to rethink, at least for a moment, their harmful beliefs?

        On the other hand, I don’t want to make it so that their thinking will be further clouded by being offended, as you say.

      • Mooser on August 6, 2014, 5:47 pm

        “On the other hand, I don’t want to make it so that their thinking will be further clouded by being offended, as you say.”

        W Jones, the best counsel comes from the best counselor, the counselor which consoles, condoles, and should control our perpetual peregrinations, circumscribe our circumnambulations, and is, in my opinion, just the stuff to give the troops. See: Psalm 77:17, Judges 5:4 and of course, Job 3:12

      • W.Jones on August 6, 2014, 9:42 pm

        My main point was that it can be helpful to send a strong message that the Nazis’ abuses were wrong, that we should be vigilant against any repetitions of genocide wherever and by whomever they could occur, and that this should motivate us to ask for the protection of Gaza’s population. The people who made the poster that J.Street wrote about were thinking along those lines. However, I tend to agree with your initial reaction and would be reluctant to make that kind of poster, because the legacy of the crimes of WWII have been misused to justify attacks on Gaza.

        You responded by suggesting that God could give the best advice and pointed to Job 3, which is about how Job is suffering so much, that he thinks he might as well be dead, asking:

        11. “Why did I not die at birth?
        Why did I not perish when I came from the womb?
        12. Why did the knees receive me?
        Or why the breasts, that I should nurse?
        13. For now I would have lain still and been quiet,
        I would have been asleep;
        Then I would have been at rest

        I suppose the answer is to redirect Job toward his “job” in life, even though he was suffering.

  8. Donald on August 5, 2014, 2:02 pm

    Good post. I’m glad the couple took your suggestion well. It’s easy to go for the jugular and forget we’re supposed to be the side that favors peace and justice and equality and reconciliation and all that good stuff, and want to win people to that position.

    • jdstr07 on August 5, 2014, 3:26 pm

      Thanks Donald. As a Quaker, I am a pacifist, and believe that destructive messages will ultimately do more harm than good.

      • W.Jones on August 5, 2014, 4:45 pm

        Jordan,
        Now overall, I tend to agree with you that the signs are counterproductive, because they can easily offend people, including yourself.

        For the sake of arguing, however, I’ll point out that you mention being a Quaker. Yet isn’t it true that in the Abolitionist movement, of which the Quakers played a leading role, the stark images of the harsh reality of slavery was often used by Abolitionists to bring on popular support?
        http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/british/images/100p2vc.jpg

        I am sure that advocates of slavery were offended by abolitionists’ condemnation and caricatures of slaveowners. More recently, in the antiwar Vietnam War protests, stark imagery was sometimes used. And again in the 2003 antiwar protests there were caricatures of Bush, showing his portrait as being harsh or even like Hitler. Perhaps this would be offensive to some.

        Pinochet was a fascist leader who killed many people. Wouldn’t it be helpful for people who protested Pinochet to make portraits comparing him to Hitler? So if Israeli leaders have made statements supporting wiping out Palestinians, wouldn’t it be helpful to criticize them for this by pointing out the dangerous similarity to fascism?

        If someone opposes the Nazis’ abuses, should it be because the Nazis harmed specific groups, or should it be because decimating any subject population is wrong and must be opposed? If the latter, then our common opposition to fascism could be a motivating inspiration to oppose war crimes wherever and to whomever they occur.

    • Mooser on August 5, 2014, 3:27 pm

      “Good post. I’m glad the couple took your suggestion well.”

      Yes, see, that’s the thing about people who march around holding up swastikas, there usually so reasonable, open to opposing views, sweet folks, really, when you get to know ’em.

      • Donald on August 5, 2014, 3:43 pm

        “Yes, see, that’s the thing about people who march around holding up swastikas, there usually so reasonable, open to opposing views, sweet folks”

        Yes, well, I was half-expecting a bad ending here, but it turns out these people weren’t neo-Nazis, but people making the Zionist = Nazi equation, which I also don’t think is a good one for winning over the ordinary person. But people who do that aren’t Nazis themselves–that’s the point.

      • Mooser on August 5, 2014, 3:57 pm

        Whoever those people were, they really should avoid any business which depends on visual aids or symbols. I don’t think they’d be good at it.

      • Donald on August 5, 2014, 5:16 pm

        Can’t argue with that.

      • Mooser on August 5, 2014, 5:33 pm

        “Can’t argue with that.”

        Thank you.

      • Mooser on August 5, 2014, 5:50 pm

        “Yes, well, I was half-expecting a bad ending here, but it turns out these people weren’t neo-Nazis”

        Maybe just personal-injury lawyers in desperate straits, trolling for a case?

  9. alan on August 5, 2014, 2:13 pm

    Just what we need in these times – someone to tell us how to avoid offending the sensibilities of the murderers and their accomplices.

    • Justpassingby on August 5, 2014, 4:19 pm

      Yeah I also think that was kind of weird, sure if there was a nazi angle to it but it seems that the protester tried to make a point the symol when it comes to israeli gov.

    • Eric on August 5, 2014, 4:29 pm

      If every IDF trigger-puller or commander cried after each murderous strike at civilian targets, that might make it inappropriate to equate militant Zionism with National Socialism. But we know better. This sick society was pretty close to unanimously in favour of the cruel, month-long slaughter, one of the most disgusting chapters in the history of humanity. Look at a video of the Shujaya bombardment, and then say whether the comparison is apt: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvq-yRhDOuc
      Or this: http://presstv.com/detail/2014/07/31/373518/israeli-sniper-admits-killing-13-kids/default.html
      That’s why this couple carried the sign they did to the demo. And after all the carnage, their message is understandable, even if it makes certain people uncomfortable.

      • AaronAarons on August 7, 2014, 12:34 pm

        Not even if it makes certain people uncomfortable, but, in part, because it does! Making supporters, including critical supporters, of Israel uncomfortable should be one of our aims.

  10. annie on August 5, 2014, 2:18 pm

    Jordan, what non violence advocacy NGO in New York do you work for?

    • Sycamores on August 6, 2014, 8:14 pm

      hi Annie Robbins,

      in jest,

      Jordan Street

      use first name initial and surname. what do you get?

  11. traintosiberia on August 5, 2014, 2:24 pm

    One does not use N word to express hatred against Obama . One should not use. Swastika to express hatred against Israel .

    Hindu has this sign .but the couple were not there expressing support for Hinduism or persecuted Hindus in Afghanistan or Pakistan.

    Anger when not scrutinized how expressed ,can result in unintended consequences . Hitler or his symbols will be last things that any person will look forward to for feeling justified or for validating anti zionism

    • Pixel on August 6, 2014, 11:44 am

      .
      I’m not sure a personal slur directed at an individual equates to a symbol representing an ideology.

      Would a better analogy not be the N-word / Obama vs. the K-word / Bibi.

      To me, part of using the swastika, now, is related to the ABJECT hypocrisy of the situation and resulting feelings of anger about being duped our whole lives with The Big Lie.

      I haven’t run into a swastika at rallies in the US. In Europe, its use may be a reaction to laws in many European countries that make it illegal to conduct historical research into “The Holocaust (registered trademark here)”. When you can no longer search for truth, it’s more than scary.

      I remember the following as a seminal moment:
      Shulamit Aloni: ‘Its a Trick, We Always Use it’ [Democracy Now!]

      While many people had known it from past experience, themselves, it may have been the very first time the “cat had officially been let out of the bag,” publicly, to a “mixed” audience.

      In Europe, the trick was “The Holocaust (registered trademark here)”
      In the US, the trick was ” anti-semite”
      In both, “self-hating Jew” was a favorite.

      We are wise to reclaim our power.

      • Tuyzentfloot on August 6, 2014, 12:00 pm

        Pixel, it can be a trick, it can be experienced as real, it can be real. People who see antisemitism everywhere often have drilled themselves into a form of paranoia but they really mean it.
        .

    • AaronAarons on August 7, 2014, 12:48 pm

      Using the “N word” to express hatred for Obama would be as bad as using some racist word for Jews to express hatred for Jewish collaborators with the (original) Nazis. I think, BTW, that it is acceptable to follow Malcolm X and call somebody like Obama a “house Negro”, although it isn’t quite fair to the real “house Negroes” under slavery who quite often aided the “field Negroes” against the slave-masters.

  12. Paldi5 on August 5, 2014, 2:29 pm

    I disagree. What is not needed, is channeling our anger for good. Sometimes it’s important to channel anger to repel evil, not make peace with it.

  13. American on August 5, 2014, 2:48 pm

    Well Jordon…a couple of things…

    First, the German swastika is not just a symbol of what happened to Jews. Its bigger than just the Jews…its what Germany came to be– a ‘ machine’ of racist, fascist, domination and elimination of any impure non Aryans.

    Since Nazism is a ideology almost everyone on earth knows about and it is universally despised—and since the general public does not know the term “Zionism’ or what it actually is– I think its a appropriate comparison to use to educate and or arouse people to rally against Israel Zionism which is bascially the same supremist ethno/racial mentality.

    And I dont totally agree with your theory here…”But what is needed now, more than ever, is the channeling of this anger for good. We need to be constructive, not destructive. Messages of hate are destructive, hurt the direction of the Palestinian solidarity movement, and take us all further away from living in a world that we desperately wish to live in.””

    Just what do you recommend as a way to channel the good to stop kill happy zionism? More talk, more appeals to Isael and US government, more what?
    Tell us who or what you dont want ‘destructed’ by the ‘destructive’ part of carrying the swastika and maybe we can tell whether or not you’re just gatekeeping on this.

    I doubt that I would have chosen a swastika to carry, but if I had I wouldnt have put it down just because it offended you or jewish sensitivities. If it works to show people what zionism is like and what its doing then I say use it.

    Israel uses every past wrongness comparsion and whataboutery on earth to excuse themselves—I see no reason not to give them a dose of the same.

    • annie on August 5, 2014, 7:06 pm

      Just what do you recommend as a way to channel the good to stop kill happy zionism?

      not sure it would work during this slaughter but i thought one of the most effective things i ever saw to shame zionist was the SNL donkey video. so i’d put in a plug for good comedy. maybe a mock of those israeli HS students dressed up as KKK but preferably blood soaked.

      or i liked those burning bloody babies dolls in front of the holocaust museum. and we posted a photo of britain jews against genocide in their live action on the worldwidephotos thread. and in barcelona everyone in the demo raised their hands with (fake) blood. i thought that was very effective.

      frankly, i am partial to those actions (like the one in derry, ireland and malta, oakland, and some places in south america, too gory tho but then SA has seen so much gore and blood they’re earned their right to use it in protests however they want) where everyone lies all over the ground like dead bodies.

      anyway, i probably got too carried away. frankly i think images of death are very relevant.

      but then jordan said the demo was ” to call for peaceful justice”. i love the idea of south africa reconciliation. but i’d be down w/the hague too.

      • Mooser on August 5, 2014, 8:43 pm

        It might be very possible to make a sign comparing certain laws made and actions taken that both Nazi Germany and Israel have made and done. The examples of Nazi laws and action could be indicated with small swastikas, the Israeli with the SOD flag, to point out the shocking similarities. It might be very hard to find fault with some of the comparisons. And some of the actions. There is the inescapable fact that the Nazi Occupation of Europe and actions preceding that sort of became the archetype both symbolically and legally of all that is illegal and horrible about occupation. So the comparisons are inevitable. Yes, I would find such a placard disturbing to look at.

        Yes, yes, I know it’s not fair. After all the Zionists had no way of knowing there would be a Hitler or Nazi regime to compare them to.

      • just on August 5, 2014, 8:51 pm

        more food for thought…

      • American on August 5, 2014, 9:01 pm

        That a good idea—-pinpointing the similar.

      • Mooser on August 6, 2014, 11:13 am

        “That a good idea—-pinpointing the similar.”

        If you’ll excuse me for saying it, screw the similar! The hell with the similar. Use almost exact correspondences, the wording of laws, decriptions of actions, quotes from leaders. Why fuck around with the “similar” when you can find undeniably exact specific correspondences?

      • Daniel Rich on August 6, 2014, 4:14 am

        @ Annie Robbins,

        Q: not sure it would work during this slaughter but i thought one of the most effective things i ever saw to shame zionist was the SNL donkey video.

        R: But then you need Lorne Michaels, the eldest of the Lipowitz children’s permission… and isn’t that like asking count Dracula to condemn Red Cross blood banks?

      • annie on August 6, 2014, 11:18 am

        but you don’t need anyone’s permission to use the same kind of humor, it doesn’t have to be an exact replica.

      • Pixel on August 6, 2014, 12:03 pm

        Annie, just saw a photo of all the red hands – WOW. That was REALLY powerful – and artist, with a reverse barbarous twist.

        I also really liked past silent protests by university students who put duck tape over their mouths, sat down in front of IDF(?) presentations, and then walked out.

        Anyone have any ideas about what red stuff they used on their hands here?

        Barcelona Rally

      • just on August 6, 2014, 12:08 pm

        Could be fresh red henna.

    • Citizen on August 6, 2014, 7:58 am

      @ American
      I agree. Symbols. Everybody knows, or at least think they know, what a Nazi thinks. How many have ever even recognized what Zionism is, how a Zionist thinks? The Nazi symbol is not a Roman or Maltese cross, it’s a twisted cross. Zionists chose the star of David. And they didn’t twist it. And, gee they surrounded it with that blue and white striped shawl…. Kinda confusing, eh?

  14. ritzl on August 5, 2014, 3:02 pm

    So, what did your sign say Mr. Street? You never did answer your own “key” question.

    Boil down your utter disgust at slaughter and genocide into sign form please. Please acknowledge and incorporate the fact that this is not the first time for this, nor will it be the last. Please sprinkle your sense of the complete soulessness required to butcher humans with regularity in your phraseology. Twenty words or less. Your turn.

    I don’t think you can do it.

    So what’s more important, sensitivities or solutions? I realize it’s only Palestinian kids being literally torn apart as we speak, so maybe there’s time to have a meeting to debate proper messaging.

    Sorry, something about this article rubbed me the wrong way. Misplaced priorities, lack of urgency, not directly affected, something fundamentally askew.

    In any event I hope Mr. Street does take a moment to answer his question. It would be instructive.

    • ejran on August 5, 2014, 6:03 pm

      Thank you. My thoughts exactly.

      1865 Palestinians killed, including 429 children. Almost 10,000 injured, many maimed an disabled forever. The deputy speaker of the Knesset Mosche Feiglin just literally called for concentration, extermination, and mass expulsion. These are no longer hallucinations but completely imaginable steps- “difficult but important” measures by an occupier that sees its security ultimately achievable only through the mass extermination of “hostile elements” (i.e. the occupied).

      In a very powerful and important speech from 2009, Dr Haidar Eid said, “If there is something to learn from Gaza 2009, it is that the world was absolutely wrong to think that Nazism was defeated in 1945. Nazism has won because it has finally managed to Nazify the consciousness of its own victims.”

      http://www.palestinechronicle.com/gaza-2009-the-moment-of-truth/#.U-Gp3IBdUrE

      You write that the swatiska “is a reminder of the inhumanity of the Nazi regime”. I think this is precisely why it is not out of place. This is not the time to censor ourselves to avoid hurting other people’s sensitivities. In a one-sided slaughter, this is not the time to talk about both sides as if they’re equal. This is not the time to talk about “peace” as a beautiful dream and a beautiful slogan when it does not mean justice. Justice demands exposing and punishing war criminals. Justice means giving things their right name. This is a time to be angry. This is a time to expose genocide for what it is. To very many Israelis who support the current operation, ironic parallels with Nazism totally escapes them. The culture of victimhood teaches them that it is the other way around. Avigail Abarbanel explains very well how they have been conditioned to believe that “it is because they are Jewish that the Palestinians are angry and attack them. Most Israelis do not even know that Israel committed ethnic cleansing in 1948. Most Israelis are convinced to the core that Israel is the “good guy” in this story who has done no wrong, the small weak David standing in front of a giant anti-Semitic Goliath. To many Israelis the Palestinians are not the same as the Nazis but are the Nazis, the powerful, non-human, faceless, single-minded psychopathic murderers who were determined to exterminate the Jews for being Jews. When Israelis kill Palestinians they are killing Pharaoh and his army (Passover), Hamman and his 10 sons (Purim) and the Greek occupying army (Hanukah) over and over again. The Palestinians are the recipients of 2,000 years of unresolved rage that has more to do with the past than the present.”

      http://electronicintifada.net/content/survival-instinct-or-jewish-paranoia/7991

      The swastika may well be a wake-up sign. Destructive? Yes, to pride, to blindness, to dangerous understatement. This is the time for unapologetic honesty. The world must remember the past to learn from the past.

      In his speech Dr Eid also quotes Steve Biko, the hero of anti-apartheid struggle in South Africa, saying,
      “Not only have the whites been guilty of being on the offensive, but by some skilful manoeuvres, they have managed to control the responses of the blacks to the provocation. Not only have they kicked the black, but they have also told him how to react to the kick. For a long time the black has been listening with patience to the advice he has been receiving on how best to respond to the kick. With painful slowness he is now beginning to show signs that it is his right and duty to respond to the kick in the way he sees fit.”

      • just on August 5, 2014, 6:55 pm

        I stay away from symbolism myself.

        The genocidal and terrorist actions of Apartheid Israel stand on their own. It’s also why I don’t condemn or criticize the Palestinian leaders– I’ll leave that up to Palestinians, it’s not my place. I have plenty to do with my own leaders and their actions. Which has much to do with the wonderful ending of your post:

        “In his speech Dr Eid also quotes Steve Biko, the hero of anti-apartheid struggle in South Africa, saying,
        “Not only have the whites been guilty of being on the offensive, but by some skilful manoeuvres, they have managed to control the responses of the blacks to the provocation. Not only have they kicked the black, but they have also told him how to react to the kick. For a long time the black has been listening with patience to the advice he has been receiving on how best to respond to the kick. With painful slowness he is now beginning to show signs that it is his right and duty to respond to the kick in the way he sees fit.””

        Thanks, ejran.

      • RoHa on August 6, 2014, 4:21 am

        “Nazism has won because it has finally managed to Nazify the consciousness of its own victims.”

        Some of the victims, anyway. Millions of others in Europe and North Africa managed to avoid being Nazified.

  15. Mooser on August 5, 2014, 3:03 pm

    They wanted to point out what Israel is doing, so they stood there and held up a swastika?
    It didn’t occur to them that the end result (what people saw!) was them standing there, holding up a swastika?
    Hard for me to believe anybody with any principles that would cause them to want to make a demonstration against Israel’s actions would so much as touch the staff of a sign with a swastika on it, let alone hold it up! Doesn’t smell right.

    • jdstr07 on August 5, 2014, 3:30 pm

      Sorry Mooser if you doubt my account. I was at the march, and I am not sure whether you were, but if you were, you would have sadly saw a minute amount of hateful messages (by minute I mean 3 swastikas on banners, and a couple of Bibi-Hitler references). I think the point is that sometimes people let their anger cloud their judgment, and whilst their anger, and our anger, is wholeheartedly justified, I think (as I advocate) we need to use it positively (if we can).

      • sligoker on August 5, 2014, 3:47 pm

        Mooser you should be ashamed of yourself. Mr. Street gave an honest description of what he experienced personally. The paranoia among you people is as bad or worse then the paranoia among Zionists.

      • Mooser on August 5, 2014, 6:21 pm

        “Mr. Street gave an honest description of what he experienced personally.”

        Slogoker, if you were there with him, and able to vouch for him, why didn’t you take a picture? Or take a video? Not that I would have the temerity to question your unsupported asseverations, of course.

      • Mooser on August 6, 2014, 12:58 pm

        “Mooser you should be ashamed of yourself. Mr. Street gave an honest description of what he experienced personally”

        Oh, that’s it, “Sligoker”, believe a Christian (Quaker), instead of a fellow Jew? I never thought I would see the day that tribal unity would dissolve like this. That is not the spirit which built the settlements, or sustains the Occupation, is it, “Sligoker”
        Who ought to be “ashamed of themselves”? You moser!

      • annie on August 6, 2014, 1:01 pm

        swoon.

      • Mooser on August 5, 2014, 4:00 pm

        “Sorry Mooser if you doubt my account.”

        Excuse me, did I say I doubt your account? I said I doubted people would do that. For your information, people often do a lot of things I doubt they would do. You’d be surprised at some of the things people do that I doubt they would do.

        “Hard for me to believe anybody with any principles that would cause them to want to make a demonstration against Israel’s actions would so much as touch the staff of a sign with a swastika on it, let alone hold it up!” What can I say, I have a child-like faith in people’s intelligence- and veracity.

        And if all I could find at the march was a “minute” amount of “hateful messages, I’d think about forbearing to mention it, considering what Israel has done. But I guess there’s some kinds of equivalence I doubt I understand.

      • W.Jones on August 5, 2014, 4:23 pm

        Jordan and Mooser,
        I agree with you, Mooser: If it’s just a few people in a large crowd holding up offensive signs, then it’s not really indicative of what people think, especially when they put their signs down.

        The main problem with the sign is that it can be misinterpreted as supported offensive intolerant ideas, when the actual intent was to give a clear picture to people that war crimes are wrong by associating the abuses with Nazism.

        Further, the signs could offend people to the extent that their minds become clouded, making it harder to dialogue with them as Jordan said.

        Now, here is the rub. If people actually did “get the picture”, and understood that war crimes are wrong and associated with Nazism, then the signs really could be justified. The war crimes of the Nazis are a paramount example in modern law and human rights circles of detestable abuses. Reminding people that war rimes are bad by associating them with Nazism can teach an important lesson that we should uphold human rights and stand up instead of being silent. If demonstrators remind their audience about this and take a strong stand and make clear their message against Nazism and Nazi-style war crimes, then it can be a useful, effective tool.

        You find Nazism to be cruel and you oppose their abuses, so that shows you that when you see other nations trying to crush other populations, then you should take a stand too. There are notable examples of survivors of WWII who say that their experience has led them to speak out more strongly in favor of protecting Palestinians from senseless slaughter.

        So, by showing signs that stand against fascism, it could motivate some people by showing them that the stand against fascism isn’t just limited to WWII, but even continues in the form of preventing it from occurring in the modern world, especially when we see populations being abused. The main downside, unfortunately, is simply how the signs could be misinterpreted.

      • Mooser on August 5, 2014, 5:40 pm

        In fact, having closely read the thread, I would advise you not to worry about my doubts whatsoever. You got better things to worry about.

      • Keith on August 5, 2014, 8:54 pm

        MOOSER- “In fact, having closely read the thread, I would advise you not to worry about my doubts whatsoever. You got better things to worry about.”

        I agree. I have a bad feeling about this thread. One would think that this Quaker with Jewish roots (how convenient) and works for an unidentified, non-violent advocacy NGO would have welcomed the opportunity to give his group a little Mondo publicity. I have no idea who this guy is or who this group is, yet we are once again concerning ourselves with possible signs of anti-Semitism. Interesting emphasis.

      • Mooser on August 6, 2014, 11:17 am

        Keith, please stop, I thought of that last night, a thought so horrible I couldn’t even bring myself to articulate it. Could we really have a person who is using their alleged Quaker background to pimp equivalence Hasbara and control the language of pro-Palestinian protest? That can’t be it.
        On the other hand, I knew nothing good would come of the new box.

      • American on August 5, 2014, 4:11 pm

        Jordon Street sound like J-Street in sheeps clothing.

      • Daniel Rich on August 6, 2014, 6:57 am

        @ Mooser, American,

        Wait a minute, did something happen in Gaza?

        swastika, swastika, swastika, swastika!

        But all those dead Palestinian chil–

        antisemite, antisemite, antisemite, antisemite. antisemite!

        Women and first responders blown to bits and pieces, that’s a crime against hum–

        hitler, hitler, hitler, hitler, hitler…

        @ JS & sly,

        If anything happens to you, don’t come running to or for me, capiche?

        I’ve reached out my hand before, but this time it’s turned into an angry fist.

        Now, *f* off and leave me alone, I’m mourning the death of 400 children here…

      • Mooser on August 6, 2014, 12:48 pm

        Daniel Rich, if people wish to go on being Jewish without Zionism, it may be possible to do so. It’s been done before. Who is going to stop us? And after the first time Zionists fire-bomb a non-Zionist Temple, the movement will take of like a, well, rocket. And we know how reliable the Zionists are, you can count on them.

        Anyway, if ham and clams were important enough to schism over, I would hope, by now, Zionism is. Maybe not. I mean, masochists need religion, too. Being a non-Zionist or anti-Zionist Jew in a Zionist Temple might appeal to some people, it’s not for me to judge.

      • Mooser on August 6, 2014, 12:39 pm

        “You got better things to worry about.”

        Well, if Mr. Street wishes to batten on my doubts, he’ll find them a slim reed to cling to, indeed. A simple child-like belief in my fellow-man’s veracity is all he’ll get from me.

        But Annie Robbins asked a direct, simple question or two which I thought would be promptly answered. Maybe some sort of tremens prevented a response?

      • Judy on August 6, 2014, 1:04 pm

        My 14-year-old son pointed out the Bibi/Hitler signs and reflected on how Israel is turning into that very thing from which they fled. Sure made you stop and think. Isn’t that the point?

        Much ado about nothing, in my opinion.

      • Daniel Rich on August 6, 2014, 5:45 pm

        @ Mooser,

        How many times did you get the ‘Wtf’s wrong with you?’ rub when you brought up anything related to Palestine?

        Personally, I don’t mind being ladled labeled any names, for I’ve been called many over the years, but I cannot bend over backwards any more [further] to justify what the Apartheid State is doing or has turned into.

        It has to stop and I’ve run out of non-violent options to achieve that goal. I very well understand the sentiment you expressed in one of your replies/remarks a few days ago. In that we are like long lost brothers.

        My [biological] dad always stressed the importance of knowledge, because it is, in his words, ‘the easiest suitcase to pack…’

        He died a haunted man. I hope I will not.

      • W.Jones on August 7, 2014, 1:34 am

        Mooser,

        J.Street concluded:

        Messages of hate are destructive, hurt the direction of the Palestinian solidarity movement, and take us all further away from living in a world that we desperately wish to live in.

        While I understand that comparing the devastation of Gaza’s UN shelters to the Germans’ WWII crimes can be offensive to some, I actually doubt that it is a “message of hate” – after all, the protestors opposed the crimes in both conflicts.

  16. bilal a on August 5, 2014, 3:39 pm

    Title and discussion in post are misleading unless you provide a photo showing otherwise.

    Clearly this was an equivocation message , that is something like Bibi = Hitler.
    The power of this equivocation message is in its inversion of the Holocaust bludgeon against the Gentiles.

    And no where does your post author ever decry the application of Nazi to Hamas or other resistance movements, many of them non-violent.

    • bilal a on August 5, 2014, 3:59 pm

      Counterpunch makes the equation semi-explicit, the equivocation occurs in omission of the clear underlying intent of displacement, ethnic cleansing, ethno-supremacy (clear characteristics of even liberal zionism) not genocide even in Israel a fringe basis for action.

      “What is the point of continuing? Israel, AIPAC, congregants everywhere, the universal voice of DENIAL of what is happening, as though right out of World War 2, only oppressor and oppressed now switching roles, Israel, as I have suggested in previous articles, having introjected the psychological poisons, and some noticeable character traits (e.g., cruelty, impersonally felt and expressed), of those responsible for, and who perpetrated on them, the unspeakable crimes of the Holocaust. ”
      Israeli’s Adeptness at Genocide
      by NORMAN POLLACK
      http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/08/05/israelis-adeptness-at-genocide/

  17. Justpassingby on August 5, 2014, 3:59 pm

    In what way did he use the sign? As a nazi or that Israel regime reminded him of the nazis? If it the latter I dont see a problem.

  18. piotr on August 5, 2014, 5:11 pm

    I would oppose the use of swastika outside of some well-defined cultural context. However, the professional investigators of anti-Semitism seem to borrow their methodology from witch hunters.

    How can we figure out if a women is a witch? We shackle her and throw into a pond. If she floats, she is a witch.

    How can we figure out if anti-Semitism was sufficiently eradicated or not? We kill some people and watch if anyone objects.

  19. AaronAarons on August 5, 2014, 5:22 pm

    Carrying a sign with just a swastika on it is wrong if you are trying to affirm that the Israeli state is Nazi-like. Rather, one should carry a sign with two horizontal blue lines and a swastika in the middle. Nobody will interpret that as a support for either the German or the Israeli version of Naziism. (Well, almost nobody, anyway.)

    • American on August 5, 2014, 7:29 pm

      AronsArons….

      ”Carrying a sign with just a swastika on it is wrong if you are trying to affirm that the Israeli state is Nazi-like. Rather, one should carry a sign with two horizontal blue lines and a swastika in the middle. Nobody will interpret that as a support for either the German or the Israeli version of Naziism. (Well, almost nobody, anyway.)”>>>>

      yes that is better….I was going to amend or add to my comment there needed to be some thng to go along with the swastika to explain the meaning of carrying it.

  20. eGuard on August 5, 2014, 5:33 pm

    Tone down, Jordan Street. Saying “Israel flag=Nazi flag” is a clean and clear political expression. Get used to it.

  21. tree on August 5, 2014, 5:57 pm

    Jordan,

    Did the banner have anything else on it besides a swastika? YOu seem to imply that it did have other writing besides the swastika with this statement,

    The couple, and others on the march who emblazoned swastikas across their posters, told me they were using it to point out the irony of a once persecuted people, committing similar brutalities to another set of human beings.

    but you only mention the swastika on the banners, and a swastika alone would have different connotations from one that is used to compare an atrocity to a similar Nazi atrocity. A swastika by itself in a demonstration against US foreign policy would have a different connotation than a swastika used to compare US actions to Nazi actions.

    I understand that you consider the swastika inappropriate to use no matter the context, but in this case I think it would be much more forthright if you would make clear whether the swastika you saw was used alone, which would imply endorsement of Nazi actions or beliefs, or used comparatively, which would imply condemnation of Nazi actions.Please, for the sake of clarity, elaborate on exactly what was on the banner you saw. Thanks.

    • Mooser on August 5, 2014, 6:42 pm

      “Please, for the sake of clarity, elaborate on exactly what was on the banner you saw.”

      Yes, that would be helpful. And I doubt that if swastikas were at all prevalent at the National Protest for Palestine in Washington DC, last Saturday, it would go unreported, or unpictured. So an image may even be available, on the web, if any photos of the demo were taken, which I doubt.

      • just on August 5, 2014, 6:46 pm

        that’s true, mooser. it would have been front page news.

      • Mooser on August 6, 2014, 11:26 am

        “that’s true, mooser. it would have been front page news.”

        Somehow I feel, I don’t know, call me a nut, that if this really happened in any appreciable way, we wouldn’t need Mr. Street to tell us about it.

  22. tree on August 5, 2014, 5:59 pm

    Oops, double post deleted.

    • Mooser on August 5, 2014, 7:07 pm

      Ah, here we go, a description:

      “a minute amount of hateful messages (by minute I mean 3 swastikas on banners, and a couple of Bibi-Hitler references).”

      3 “swastikas on banners”? Must have been those huge hanging banners they used at the Nuremberg rallies. What else could a “swastikas on banners” be?
      Wow, sure glad nobody was interested enough in this visual confirmation of neo-Nazi influence in the pro-Palestinian movement to take pictures of it.

      Maybe those huge rally style banners were disguised as informational placards which use swastikas, (maybe even to indicate specific comparisons) as a visual shorthand for cruelty and oppression?

      And Bibi-Hitler references? Well, if Mr. Netanyahoo (and I’m glad you, as a Quaker, are looking out for him) doesn’t want to be compared to Hitler there are things he could do about it.

  23. Throwing Stones on August 5, 2014, 6:29 pm

    tree said,
    > I think it would be much more forthright if you would make clear whether the swastika you saw was used alone… or used comparatively

    I was thinking the same thing. Also, it’s a huge leap, from, “What should we be saying instead?” to “this movement must have complete unity of message(!)” Complete unity? According to whose idea of constructive? I don’t see the anti-Arab racist “Clash of Civilization” talking heads sanitizing their messaging, and they are being way too successful.

    My first post here, BTW.

    • just on August 5, 2014, 7:20 pm

      Welcome!

    • annie on August 5, 2014, 7:35 pm

      welcome throwing stones!

      I don’t see the anti-Arab racist “Clash of Civilization” talking heads sanitizing their messaging

      and those apocalypse sound tracks are horrible.

  24. lysias on August 5, 2014, 6:44 pm

    The Christian use of the cross as a symbol did not endorse what was done to Christ, it was to remind us of it.

  25. Daniel Rich on August 5, 2014, 6:58 pm

    Q: The swastika is a symbol of hate. It is a symbol of anti-Semitism, it is a reminder of the inhumanity of the Nazi regime.

    R: As is the perpetuated misuse of the word ‘nazi.’

    If/when the inhabitants of the Apartheid State stop acting like latter-day Germans, I’ll call them Israelis. Antisemitism [Arabs/Muslims/Palestinians not included], how’s that for a one-sided worldview? We are all Palestinians now…

    • sligoker on August 5, 2014, 8:18 pm

      Speak for yourself. I am not a Palestinian nor do I have any desire to be one. The arrogance is transcendent.

      • annie on August 5, 2014, 8:24 pm

        what arrogance? “we are all palestinians now” as a saying, is not arrogant.

      • Mooser on August 5, 2014, 8:53 pm

        I think I know what Sligoker wants to say, but that is one hell of a use for “transcendent”. I wonder if he knows what “transcendent” means.

        And naturally, since Sligoker is sitting there in the midst of Gazan’s and knows them so well, I really doubt projection is an issue here, like he was sitting there with nobody to describe but himself. No, there’s no arrogance, let alone a “transcendent” arrogance, about Sligoker.

        Now comes the post in which he says he wanted to like me, tried to talk to me, but my transcendent arrogance makes it impossible.

      • just on August 5, 2014, 8:24 pm

        where did you serve as a police officer?

      • just on August 5, 2014, 9:19 pm

        huh…no answer.

        are you this sligoker?

        “sligoker commented

        Islam is a disease. These apologists are like the defenders of serial killers who say they had a bad childhood.”

        “sligoker commented

        BiBi–you are a hero to all freedom loving people around the world. Stay strong during this latest incursion by the forces of darkness.”

        https://www.youtube.com/user/sligoker

        i hope that’s not somebody usurping you screen name…

      • Bumblebye on August 5, 2014, 9:56 pm

        Or this one?

        “Henrik Gargan (sligoker) on Twitter
        https://twitter.com/sligoker‎CachedThe latest from Henrik Gargan (@sligoker). … More. Embed Tweet. Henrik
        Gargan @sligoker · 25 Feb 2013. Fujifilm X-Pro1 & XE-1 Image Thread – FM
        Forums …”

        I haven’t looked further than a quick google. Doesn’t really look like a name from Sligo.

      • just on August 5, 2014, 10:20 pm

        I’m still waiting… perhaps it’s a coincidence, but that last comment @2018 was quite revealing, uh transparent, imho.

      • Mooser on August 6, 2014, 6:05 pm

        “I am not a Palestinian nor do I have any desire to be one.”

        Yes you are. Tell me one fundamental real way you are different from a Palestinian? Just one. As a matter of fact, Sligoker in any way that really matters, you are exactly like a Palestinian!!
        I doubt you can come up with any meaningful differences.

  26. oldgeezer on August 5, 2014, 7:36 pm

    @Jordan Street

    I’m sure you don’t need my approval but I don’t doubt your account and agree with how you handled it.

    Without burying myself in the arguments on it, it is not only needlessly offensive to many because of history (not just Jewish people) and counter productive to whatever the cause is but it makes many people turn away and disengage.

    Whatever a wrong is, it can be justified as a wrong on it’s own merits with those that share the same general moral code. For those who don’t it (the sign) isn’t going to change their mind anyway.

    • Pixel on August 6, 2014, 12:17 pm

      @OG

      “…it makes many people turn away and disengage.”

      Do we actually know that, now — 6 August, 2014 — or do we just think so?

      A new day may have dawned.

  27. Tobias on August 5, 2014, 7:50 pm

    Maybe this is why the Irish are so anti-Israeli then

    http://comeheretome.com/2010/04/26/swastika-laundry-1912-1987/

  28. American on August 5, 2014, 7:56 pm

    I thought anonymous linked this here but I dont see so..

    The odiousness of the distorted Godwin’s Law http://www.salon.com/2010/07/01/godwin/

    ”Prohibitions that arose from German aggression were meant to be applied, not shrouded with a code of silence ”

    Glen Greenwald–Salon- 2010

    Responding to the neocon objections to my post on the universality of war-justifying propaganda, Kevin Drum writes that it’s “time to repeal Godwin’s Law” — at least the distorted version which purports to prohibit all comparisons to German crimes — labeling it an “an endlessly tiresome way of feigning moral indignation.” Kevin adds: ”WWII analogies are extremely useful because they’re familiar to almost everyone.”

    I agree: the very notion that a major 20th Century event like German aggression is off-limits in political discussions is both arbitrary and anti-intellectual in the extreme. There simply are instances where such comparisons uniquely illuminate important truths: recall, for example, Andrew Sullivan’s consequential discovery of the stark similarities between the Bush/Cheney and Gestapo “enhanced interrogation” documents, both in terms of approved tactics and “justifications.” To demand that German crimes be treated as sacred and unmentionable is to deprive our discourse of critical truths.

    But this prohibition is even more odious than that. A primary point of the Nuremberg Trials was to seize on the extraordinary horror of what the Germans did in order to set forth general principles to be applied not only to the individual war criminals before the tribunal, but more important, to all countries in the future.

    As lead prosecutor Robert Jackson explained in his Opening Statement:

    ”What makes this inquest significant is that these prisoners represent sinister influences that will lurk in the world long after their bodies have returned to dust. . . . .

    And let me make clear that while this law is first applied against German aggressors, the law includes, and if it is to serve a useful purpose it must condemn aggression by any other nations, including those which sit here now in judgment.””””

    Those most eager to violate these principles understandably want to render these discussions taboo, but that’s no reason for the rest of us to acquiesce. Actually, it’s a compelling reason to emphatically refuse.’
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    Exactly why I have no problem using the nazi comparison for zionism and for Israel’s regular slaughters of Palestines…and to the US also.
    I have a extremely low opinion of those who whimper about anyone’s sensitivities to ‘symbols’ of hate because what is involved and at stake in this is much, much bigger than anyone’s hurt feelings or discomfort.
    The reason for using a comparaison of nazism and zionism is to give people a instant picture of what Israel is doing that doesnt need a lot of explaining.
    Let the hasbara agents try to do the explaining.

  29. just on August 5, 2014, 8:08 pm

    “For starters, there was the very real physical threat many of them faced. Several of the kibbutzim on Israel’s border with the Strip, including Kissufim, Nir Am, Nirim and Bror Hayil, were founded by and are still populated by South American Jews, many of whom were members of Zionist youth movements in Argentina and Brazil. That proximity made them more vulnerable than many other Israelis to Hamas rockets and tunnels. Indeed, one of the most familiar faces of the war for Israeli television watchers in recent weeks has been that of Argentinean-born Haim Yellin, head of the Eshkol Regional Council, where many of these kibbutzim are located.

    Attacks from Gaza have been a fact of life for this community for years. But what caught Israel’s Spanish- and Portuguese-speaking immigrants off guard this time around was the assault from a completely different direction – their birthplaces overseas.

    Since Israel launched its ground incursion into Gaza, five Latin American nations — Ecuador, Brazil, Chile, Peru and El Salvador — have recalled their ambassadors, harshly condemning Israel for the latest round of violence. Last week Bolivia, which in 2009 severed diplomatic ties with Israel over Operation Cast Lead, canceled a long-standing visa-exemption for visiting Israelis.

    This virtually unprecedented backlash has shaken up Latin American Jews to the point, they say, that they feel terribly let down, almost betrayed. Many noted the complete failure by governments in Latin America to express concern for the safety of tens of thousands of their nationals living in Israel.

    “There’s a very deep concern about all this,” says Rabbi Mauricio Balter of the Eshel Avraham Conservative synagogue of Be’er Sheva, home to roughly 7,000 Argentinean immigrants. “For me, what’s different this time is that it’s all the countries ganging up on Israel together.” ”

    http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/.premium-1.609101

    I hadn’t read of the cancelation of the visa- waiver program… and what’s this about betrayal and ‘ganging up’?

    • AaronAarons on August 6, 2014, 8:05 pm

      Those kibbutzim were built, usually with full knowledge, if not active complicity, of their originators, on land from which Palestinians had just been driven by Zionist terror. If those South American Jews want to live in peace, they should go back to their own countries. And if they are Sephardic Jews, they can now go back to Spain with full citizenship rights.

  30. annie on August 5, 2014, 8:27 pm

    Palestinians are calling for a global “Day of Rage” on Sat Aug 9th.

    Take to the streets on Saturday 9 August with a united demand for sanctions on Israel.

    http://palsolidarity.org/2014/08/gaza-calling-all-out-on-saturday-9-august-day-of-rage/

    • just on August 5, 2014, 8:40 pm

      thanks Annie– I will do something, I promise. A wonderful time to rally in solidarity for too long- denied JUSTICE.

      (an aside. we dropped the bomb on Nagasaki that day, 69 years ago… tomorrow is the day we dropped it on Hiroshima)

    • Bumblebye on August 5, 2014, 8:41 pm

      I already know there’s a major march planned for London (again) on that date. But if this is true:

      http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=718492

      “BETHLEHEM (Ma’an) — Israel is willing to agree to the rebuilding of the Gaza Strip in exchange for the disarmament of militant groups there, an official said Tuesday.

      Ofer Gendelman told Ma’an that the Israeli government linked the rebuilding of Gaza with disarming factions in the coastal enclave.”

      There should certainly be rage of the highest degree if the Israelis are trying to condition rebuilding after the devastation on disarming. There needs to be focus on at least getting the port operational and open, with international sea protection if necessary!

      • just on August 5, 2014, 8:49 pm

        Yep, I have heard about it from all of the Israeli mouthpieces.

        They want them even more vulnerable, you see…it makes the genocide so much easier and their captivity so much more convenient.

        There’s no call for Israel to even declare their nuclear arsenal, though. This is why it’s so imperative for us to stop all arms and money for arms to Israel NOW.

        Time to get your rage ON!

      • michelle on August 5, 2014, 8:55 pm

        .
        can someone ask Israel if it’s okay for me to wash
        my dishes tonight or should i wait until morning
        .
        G-d Bless
        .

      • just on August 6, 2014, 1:03 pm

        You are a peach, michelle.

      • michelle on August 6, 2014, 5:22 pm

        .
        you’re just keen
        what a pear we would make
        lol
        (just)
        .
        G-d Bless
        .

  31. michelle on August 5, 2014, 8:48 pm

    .
    After 66 years what must the Palenstine people
    think/feel when they see the star of david symbol
    .
    must we be blind to see the truth
    ‘i’ can’t force ‘you’ to use ‘my’ brain to think
    it’s not the word or action (or the symbol)
    as much as the motive and intent
    .
    for many this symbol went from a well intended
    meaning to one that invoked hate fear and sadness
    .
    The word “swastika” is derived from the Sanskrit
    “svastikah”, which means ‘being fortunate’: SVASTI-,
    can be divided into two parts: SU- ‘good; well’, and –
    ASTI- ‘is’; -ASTIKAH means ‘being’
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika
    .
    #two of the top ten
    thou shalt not make unto
    thee any graven image
    .
    G-d Bless
    .

  32. chuckcarlos on August 5, 2014, 8:50 pm

    “political power comes out of the barrel of a gun”….mao

    steinbeck wrote an interesting part of Viva Zapata…

    zapata had freed mexico from the diaz tyranny…madero was president….a real tool….madero is making the stupid comments, same as the writer…zapata demanded madero’s watch at the point of his Winchester…zapata took the watch….and then shoved the winchester under madero’s arm and gave him back the watch…

    doesn’t matter…IRA, Giap, George Washington, Simon Bolivar, Guevara…and now the muslim freedom fighters…

    reason we have the 2nd Amendment…”well armed militia”…defense against tyranny of all sorts

    the meek do not inherit the earth

    • Mooser on August 6, 2014, 11:22 am

      “the meek do not inherit the earth”

      They don’t? I am so screwed.

      • just on August 6, 2014, 11:38 am

        Me too.

      • Mooser on August 6, 2014, 12:28 pm

        You see the kinds of mixed messages we get growing up? I got one guy telling me the meek will not inherit the earth, and my parents telling me that insufficiently meek little boys get written out of the will!

      • just on August 6, 2014, 1:00 pm

      • Mooser on August 6, 2014, 2:56 pm

        As a matter of fact, my Dad once took me to the family vaults, and showed me what I could expect to inherit, if I was good son. There were cases and cases of valuable wines, vintage liquors, bonded bourbons, aged whiskeys, hundreds of cases. I asked: “Dad, why are you accumulating all this booze? The banks are safe and Prohibition is over!” His answer, as he turned to me with a haunted look in his eyes, hands trembling, informs my view of my Jewish heritage to this very day: “Sure, maybe it’s over, but they might bring it back!”

    • AaronAarons on August 6, 2014, 8:58 pm

      George Washington a “freedom fighter”??? Tell that to his slaves and to the indigenous peoples he slaughtered and whose stolen lands made him extremely wealthy! He was a far more appropriate model for the Zionists than for those rebelling against them.

  33. tommy on August 5, 2014, 9:22 pm

    Several years ago I attended an Iraq anti-war demonstration with a sign that said ‘Support the troops to go AWOL,’ and was confronted by other protesters who objected to my sign. They did not like my insinuation the troops were to blame for their obedience, and held up their signs to block mine. The protests did nothing to deter the US mission. They were too peaceful, too respectful, too obedient to the same authority the troops were guilty of. Although I think Jordan Street’s opinion has some merit, and he was not belligerent to the protesters he confronted, swastikas mean more than just what Jordan Street thinks. Swastikas also represent institutional ethnic nationalist violence against a targeted population of others; the type of violence Israel has been perpetrating for decades. A nationalist symbol like the Star of David can and should be equated with the undisputed symbol of 20th century genocide to especially remind those who support Israeli aggression they have betrayed the conclusion of the Holocaust: Never Again!

  34. bilal a on August 5, 2014, 9:35 pm

    raimondo at antiwar.com puts a swastica on his banner:

    The multicultural kibbutzim envisioned by early Zionist utopians had to evolve into the Israeli Sparta of today. Zionism is a form of religious nationalism predicated on a strategy of colonization, conquest, and expulsion of indigenous peoples. What Leibowitz rightly labeled “Judeo-Nazism” was festering at Israel’s core from day one. And as Leibowitz famously put it, “Religious nationalism is to religion what national socialism is to socialism” – which is precisely what we are seeing emerge, full blown, in Israel today.

    http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2014/08/03/israel-genocide-and-the-logic-of-zionism/

  35. Sycamores on August 5, 2014, 10:42 pm

    @ Jordan Street,

    do you find it interesting that if it wasn’t for that offensive cultural symbol you would have not met them people to explained your POV and got them to change their minds, the power of conversation. further more you went on to write this interesting piece and going by the number of comments you got more people conversing.

    A cultural symbol is a cultural object. The efficacy of a cultural object varies from impotency to omnipotency for a given place and time. According to Schudson (1989), there are five dimensions in the potency for a cultural object – retrievability, rhetorical force, resonance, institutional retention, and resolution. A cultural symbol is retrievable if one viewing it recognises it and knows what it is; culture must be able to reach a person if it is to influence the person. If a symbol is seen by people, what makes such seeing memorable and powerful? A symbol that engages the viewer’s attention is said to have more rhetorical power than one that cannot. A cultural symbol must have resonance to have efficacy

    http://www.questia.com/library/journal/1P3-2283081811/visual-symbolism-collective-memory-and-social-protest

    on a separate note can you help clarify

    were you partaking in the protest and if you were how does this fit into Quakers non-violent and non-resistance beliefs because protesting is a form of resistance.

    peace for all.

  36. notatall on August 6, 2014, 6:05 am

    I see nothing wrong with using the swastika to highlight the parallels between Nazism and actions of the Zionist state.

  37. Judy on August 6, 2014, 1:06 pm

    Jordan, my favorite sign of the day was “The Warsaw Ghetto had tunnels too.”

    Did that offend you?

  38. michelle on August 6, 2014, 3:41 pm

    .
    G-ds meek
    self reflect and see
    (despite their constant efforts)
    in themselves they will never be free
    from their own daily increase of sin
    though because of their love of G-d
    (and through Him love for every and all living things)
    their efforts remain constant
    .
    G-d Bless
    .

  39. just on August 6, 2014, 6:16 pm

    Where is sligoker?

    Which “international non violence advocacy NGO in New York” do you work for, Jordan?

    • Mooser on August 6, 2014, 9:24 pm

      Sad, very sad.

      • just on August 6, 2014, 10:12 pm

        positively pitiful.

        I am ‘heartbroken’ and ‘distressed’

        (psst ~ don’t tell anyone that this comes from hasbara central!)

      • Mooser on August 7, 2014, 10:21 am

        Well, I guess comments will be closed on this pretty soon, and we never heard back from Jordan Street.
        Man, I don’t know if this will stick to my ribs, but it sure as hell sticks in my craw. What a nasty thing we’ve just seen.

      • Mooser on August 7, 2014, 10:26 am

        “(psst ~ don’t tell anyone that this comes from hasbara central!)”

        Okay, it’s time! Comments will be closed soon, so bring on the “Friends don’t let…” jokes!

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