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This is not yet an intifada, Palestinians say

Israel/Palestine
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Palestinians across East Jerusalem say that the violence that is shaking Jerusalem is not an intifada– yet. It is an unorganized Palestinian response to Israeli aggressive actions, including the visits by religious Jews to the Haram al Sharif or Temple Mount in the Old City. But it is not an uprising all over Palestine, as a third intifada would be.

That could begin in the blink of an eye. “Before you will open your eyes– it is a third intifada and bigger than the first and the second,” said Said Radi abu Snad, 75, a man whose house has six times been demolished in Silwan.

abu Diab Silwan, before a demolished house

Said Radi Abu Snad, Silwan, before a demolished house

I interviewed two dozen Palestinians in East Jerusalem neighborhoods over the last week, and many said that they hope for another intifada. “During the first intifada my shop was only open three hours a day,” a Palestinian businessman who wished to be anonymous explained to me. “But I am crying for those days. We need a third intifada to end the occupation.” He said even businessmen feel they have nothing to lose because Israel has so encircled Jerusalem with checkpoints and Jewish settlements that the Palestinian economy is choked.

A second businessman entered his store and shook his head at the idea. “An intifada will makes things worse. It won’t end the occupation.”

It may be more accurate to describe the violence of the last three months as Benjamin Netanyahu’s intifada. The Israeli prime minister has escalated violent tensions again and again. He encouraged Jewish revenge for the three Israeli teens’ abduction and murders in June, creating fear across East Jerusalem; he conducted raids across the West Bank in June and July before escalating a conflict with Gaza leading to the massacres of hundreds; and lately he has encouraged far-right Jewish zealots to assert their claims at the Al Aqsa mosque and used Palestinian children’s stone-throwing in East Jerusalem to clamp down on those neighborhoods.

“People are willing to do anything because they are losing the hope. I think it could be worse than first intifada,” says Jawad Siyam, an activist against the occupation in Silwan who has been arrested many times. “The Israelis will not take a step back. They will keep attacking Al Aqsa.”

When I asked Siyam how important the mosque was to Palestinians, he said, “I wonder if you would ask the Catholics, how important is the Vatican to you? Let’s say, we share the Vatican with you, what would be their reaction?”

Another Palestinian in the neighborhood said, “Al Aqsa, it is very, very, very, very red line. We are not Da’ish [ISIS]. But we are Muslim, we go to pray as you go to pray in church. If anyone hurt the mosque, we will do more than Da’ish.”

Palestinians describe a regime of control and harassment all across East Jerusalem. Soldiers are at every corner in Shuafat. In Beit Hanina soldiers stand on overpasses above roads that serve Jewish settlements to prevent attacks. A surveillance balloon over Mount Scopus trains a camera on neighborhoods from Issawiya to Silwan. The Israelis have lately threatened up to 20 year prison terms for even young people throwing stones. The police issue tickets for minor traffic violations in an apparent effort to keep people in their homes; a medical student told me he leaves lab class early every day so as not to be on the street at night and risk arrest, and weeks or months of arbitrary detention.

“Whenever Palestinians start to shake or rattle, the Israelis press down,” a businessman near the Old City explained. “This is their only way, harassment.”

It is Netanyahu’s intifada because the Israeli prime minister has fostered much of the repressive and extremist actions over the last four months out of political need, to placate the far right. “This is an offensive by the government because Netanyahu is running forward to avoid a parliamentary crisis,” says Sergio Yahni, an Israeli activist marching in the Palestinian neighborhood of Issawiya. “He has been escalating the crisis for three months in order to resolve his political problems with the most extreme right.” Yahni explains that the zealots who want to build a temple in the place of the Al Aqsa mosque used to be “fringe of the fringe. But there is a direct connection from the fringe to the center.” In three telephone calls you can get from the zealot Yehuda Glick to the minister of the interior, Yahni said.

Netanyahu is weak, says Amiel Vardi, a professor of classics at Hebrew University, also marching in Issawiya. “I do not think that Netanyahu is giving himself a rational account of what he is doing. It seems he is acting rashly, looking at short term results only. And what’s worrying is, the next wave of violence will be higher.”

Palestinian businessman, anonymous, East Jerusalem

Palestinian businessman, anonymous, East Jerusalem

Palestinians describe the violent resistance so far as sporadic and not organized. Palestine has been successfully atomized by overwhelming military occupation; and yet each Palestinian community is alive to the others. A man in Issawiya shows me Facebook photos of Israeli soldiers entering Al Aqsa mosque, then explains that Gaza rose up last July after Shuafat rose up over the lynching of 16-year-old Mohammed Abu Khdeir. “And when Shuafat went crazy we had to stand up for Shuafat,” he said.

A grim aura of desperation and imprisonment hangs over these neighborhoods. Issawiya has been turned into a mini-Gaza, shut off by blockades from the roads going out to Jewish settlements to the north and south. While to the east you can see the famous wall, cutting the village off from its lands in the valley leading to Jericho. There are now Jewish settlements in the village of Beit Hanina, considered the Upper East Side of East Jerusalem, and Siyam says that to travel there from Silwan he must pass through four checkpoints. Silwan is filled with overhead surveillance cameras marking off the Jewish settlements penetrating the neighborhood. In Shuafat, the two light rail stations destroyed during riots protesting the Abu Khdeir lynching last July have not been renovated in five months since.

Surveillance camera on balloon over East Jerusalem

Surveillance camera on balloon over East Jerusalem

“There is no security, your are always insecure,” a 29-year-old Shuafat businessman told me in his shop before rushing off to teach a professional class. “You are afraid economically, politically, and physically.”

A mile away, Issawiya is so isolated that residents told me no western reporters had visited the neighborhood– not CNN, the Guardian or the New York Times. Only Israeli media.

“We thought the peace process was the light at the end of the tunnel,” says Fakhri abu Diab, of Silwan. “But the light has turned into a bulldozer. The people here have nothing to lose… And when the youth have nothing to lose it is very very dangerous.”

Meantime, the West Bank is largely quiet. Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas has seen to that, keeping resistance from spreading to areas where Palestinians have more arms. A Palestinian man whose father helped organize the First Intifada said at that time, 1987, there were nightly meetings of political leaders who then worked with the boys throwing stones in the streets. Today’s actions are not nearly so organized, even as the occupation grinds on in humiliating ways. The soldiers stationed outside in Shuafat and Beit Hanina piss against the walls, and Abu Tor stinks of skunk water. That neighborhood was clamped down upon after a restaurant worker who was said to be enraged by Glick’s plans to take over the Al Aqsa mosque shot Glick in the street on October 29.

The Palestinian violence has had an impulsive and individualized character, notable for knife attacks at bus stops and cars driven into light rail stations in East Jerusalem. And though you hear Palestinians applauding these attacks as a form of resistance to occupation (and Israeli media calling this the silent intifada or individual intifada), those actions have not yet burgeoned into widespread activity. Israeli forces have largely succeeded in sewing up Palestinian communities. The streets of Issawiya are scorched by burning tires and businesses have shattered windows, but dozens of Israeli soldiers at barricades at each end of the village have managed to isolate those young people from nearby neighborhoods.

Thus the despair. No Palestinian I spoke with said he believed that any Palestinian action will end the occupation. Still the resistance this time has a method: it seems aimed at highlighting the totalitarian aspects of the occupation of Jerusalem to the world. A young man in Issawiya said that despite the absence of western press in his neighborhood, international media are portraying Palestinians in a new light. “It used to be the Palestinian is only a terrorist. Not this time.” A Palestinian activist told me that the world is at last getting to see Israel going haywire in its repressions, from the threat of 20 year sentences for boys throwing rocks to the on-again off-again encouragement of the Temple Mount activists with their connections to the Knesset.

The unending “Judaization” of Jerusalem by colonists claiming a deed based on 3000-year-old relics of Jewish settlement is demonstrating the strength of Palestinian steadfastness, Jawad Siyam says. “This is my country. I will not leave,” he says. “I can see my blood going drop by drop into this country… I am like a tree in my land.”

Jawad Siyam, Silwan

Jawad Siyam, Silwan

So the resistance is evidence of a non-negotiable demand that anybody anywhere can relate to: People must have their dignity.

Last Wednesday the villagers of Issawiya were joined by 200 Israelis who marched with them through the isolated neighborhood to plead with Israeli authorities to open the roads leading out of the scorched ghetto. I saw only Palestinian and Israeli media there, but for a brief time the demonstrators offered an inspiring vision of a future of equality– if there could only be political leadership. For both groups, Palestinians and Israeli leftists, are politically disenfranchised. The Temple Mount zealots can get an audience from the government, not these people.

And yet the Israeli solidarity activists left the neighborhood at 6 pm as night fell, amid generous thanks from the people of Issawiya– who were then left to face teargas and rubber bullets by themselves. There could be no more blatant evidence of apartheid Jerusalem.

Omar Attiya remonstrating with Israeli officer, Issawiya demonstration, Nov. 12, 2014

Omar Attiya remonstrating with Israeli officer, Issawiya demonstration, Nov. 12, 2014

The pleas for human dignity resonate in the rising alarm over Al Aqsa. Religious freedom is the very least that Palestinians can insist on, said the 29-year-old businessman in Shuafat. “We cannot have free speech, we cannot have the right to build, we cannot have the right of education. But we can at least have the freedom to pray to our god.”

Al Aqsa is the fire that Netanyahu has played with throughout the escalations of the last month. He has energized his right wing with the issue but threatened to catalyze a true Palestinian uprising. The medical student who leaves his lab early doesn’t want a third intifada to interrupt his studies. But if the Al Aqsa incitements continue, Palestinians will rise. “I don’t want more soldiers here,” he says. “I make the bottom line– Let them leave the Al Aqsa mosque, we leave them alone.”

philweiss
About Philip Weiss

Philip Weiss is Founder and Co-Editor of Mondoweiss.net.

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144 Responses

  1. a blah chick
    a blah chick
    November 17, 2014, 10:44 am

    In addition to all that crap we have the case of the bus driver who committed “suicide” in his vehicle with what looks like piano wire.

    This morning the police made it official, the dude committed suicide because they autopsy failed to show signs of violence.

    This is Haaretz today: “Ramouni’s family claimed he had no reason to commit suicide as he was not facing any crises. Colleagues of Ramouni said that Palestinian bus drivers have long been subjected to violence by Jews. However, according to a preliminary report, Israel Police suspected suicide, and claimed no signs of violence were found on Ramouni.

    CCTV footage from the bus depot may prove crucial in proving or disproving the two conflicting causes of death.”

    Sweet baby Jesus, it’s the Abu Khdeir killing all over again! Release the damn footage!

    • just
      just
      November 17, 2014, 12:39 pm

      that video will be disappeared…they always are unless one of the Occupied actually has it.

      Though I know what you are trying to say, Phil, I would not use the honorable word ‘intifada’ in relation to Netanyahu. It means ‘shaking off’ the Occupation & ongoing Nakba.

      Exactly the antithesis of Israeli ethnic cleansing and genocidal terror used against the Palestinians.

      • a blah chick
        a blah chick
        November 17, 2014, 1:52 pm

        The plot thicken…

        BETHLEHEM (Ma an) — A medical expert told Ma an that a Palestinian who was found hanged on a bus near Jerusalem earlier Monday died by hanging and strangulation, and that preliminary tests suggest he was the victim of an organized murder.

        Earlier, bus driver Yusuf Hasan al-Ramouni, 32, was found hanged inside his bus at the Har Hotzvim terminal near Jerusalem, and police said in a statement that there was no suspicion of criminal activity and his death appeared to be a suicide.

        But the medical expert, speaking on the condition of anonymity, told Ma an that al-Ramouni s death did not appear to be a suicide.

        After an autopsy it was found that the man s first vertebra was not dislocated, which usually happens in the cases of suicide by hanging, the expert said.

        He added that postmortem lividity, or livor mortis, was found on the buttocks of the body and not the lower limbs, which indicates that al-Ramouni was not dangled.

        Hmmmm….

    • just
      just
      November 17, 2014, 2:36 pm

      “RAMALLAH (Ma’an) — Mahmoud al-Habbash, the supreme judge of Palestine, said Monday that the Israeli government led by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was responsible for the “murder” of Yousef al-Rouman, a Palestinian who was found hanged to death near Jerusalem the same day.

      In a statement, al-Habbash said that the “killing” of al-Ramouni was “a brutal crime which sows the criminal mentality that dominates the Israeli society.”

      He said it reflected a degree of aggressiveness within Israel toward Arabs and Muslims “in the wake of the racist incitement by the leaders of the occupation and the protection they provide to terrorist settlers.”

      Al-Habbash added that the ongoing “chain of crimes” against the Palestinian people, especially Jerusalemites, would create an uncontrollable popular Palestinian reaction which would lead to a religious war.

      Earlier Monday, bus driver Yousuf Hasan al-Ramouni, 32, was found hanged inside his bus at the Har Hotzvim terminal near Jerusalem, and police said in a statement that there was “no suspicion of criminal activity” and that his death appeared to be a suicide.

      But a medical expert, speaking on the condition of anonymity, told Ma’an after an autopsy that al-Ramouni’s death did not appear to be a suicide.”

      http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=740552

  2. eljay
    eljay
    November 17, 2014, 11:40 am

    >> Palestinian businessman, anonymous, East Jerusalem

    Remaining anonymous is much easier when you don’t include a nice photo of yourself along with your comments.

    Be safe, “anonymous” Palestinian businessman.

  3. David Doppler
    David Doppler
    November 17, 2014, 11:43 am

    Great title and article!

    I am reminded once again of Phil Zimbardo’s book, the Lucifer Effect, about the Stanford Prison Experiment, in which ordinary Northern California college students randomly sorted into prisoners and guards, and placed in roles running, or being confined in, a prison block, were rapidly transformed in both cohorts, with the guards becoming cruel and sadistic, enjoying the torment they put their charges through, with the prisoners lapsing into a state of frustrated dependence, a version of the Stockholm syndrome.

    His point is that ordinary human beings are psychologically capable of playing both roles, given the social structure driving them to it.

    “Netanyahu’s Intifada” is a great title for the unfolding chapter.

    “Likud’s Lucifer Effect” is offered up as a broader title for how God’s Chosen People could find themselves the driving force in such a historical catastrophe. [Hint: they’re ordinary human beings like everyone else.]

    [By the way, Zimbardo terminated his experiment early, shocked by some of the behavior unleashed, perhaps suggesting the way to avoid the worst potential consequences of Israel’s current course of action.]

    • annie
      annie
      November 17, 2014, 12:45 pm

      i think he changed the title david, yikes..

      • David Doppler
        David Doppler
        November 17, 2014, 4:44 pm

        Hi Annie,

        I noticed that after I posted, and, “not yet an intifada” is better, certainly more politically correct, because no sane person wants this to continue to escalate into an actual intifada. But sanity seems in short supply in Israel today, and if it does explode there, it will be because of Likud policies, and Netanyahu tactics trying to manage his right wing by “out-right-winging” them.

        Maybe the Gatekeepers need to assert themselves more forcefully than merely being interviewed for a documentary. Someone needs to change the social pressures on Israel’s leadership, because it will only get worse until the spell is broken.

  4. DaBakr
    DaBakr
    November 17, 2014, 1:00 pm

    When I asked Siyam how important the mosque was to Palestinians, he said, “I wonder if you would ask the Catholics, how important is the Vatican to you? Let’s say, we share the Vatican with you, what would be their reaction?” – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2014/11/netanyahus-intifada#sthash.KRTAqRKQ.dpuf

    great question: Ask Muslims how they would feel sharing Mecca or Medina. How Catholics would mind sharing Vatican or Russian Orthodox mind sharing St.P. Or the Shi’a sharing their shrines in Qom and then ask Jews how they like sharing the Temple Mount-(which they do). It always struck me as absurd how the Arabs like to claim Jerusalem has little significance to Jews and so much significance to Muslims yet is not mentioned in their holiest of religious books. And while some Jews may be interested inb praying there there is no serious move being made to alter the status of the mount being a Muslim shrine.

    • John O
      John O
      November 17, 2014, 1:34 pm

      A fair question, but not a great answer. Speaking as a cradle Catholic, I can say that Rome and St Peter’s mean nothing much to me and never did. It’s “headquarters”; that’s all.

      But your post misses the nub of the matter. It’s the determination of certain Jews to stop sharing the Temple Mount that is the current problem.

      • Teapot
        Teapot
        November 17, 2014, 3:05 pm

        I guess if Italian Catholics had been living under foreign occupation for decades, their land being stolen, their economy and culture continually destroyed, then they and Catholics all over the world would feel a lot more protective about Rome and St Peter’s.

        Palestinians have lost so much already. Losing Al-Aqsa would be the final straw.

      • just
        just
        November 17, 2014, 3:15 pm

        I think so too, Teapot.

        From Kate’s compilation today:

        “Strenger than fiction — The right’s prayer: Apocalypse now!/ Carlo Strenger
        Haaretz 15 Nov — The best way right-wingers can brand themselves is to help foment the next intifada — Benjamin Netanyahu was warned time and again: The powder keg of the West Bank and the climate among Israelis Arabs would most likely explode if the status quo on the Temple Mount was destabilized. Hence, early last week, he issued a directive to his ministers to show restraint and responsibility by refraining from heating up the situation. This was enough to ensure to make some of the more ambitious young right-wingers realize their moment of opportunity. After all, not every day brings the opportunity of having an intifada with your name on it, and there seems no better branding proposition for today’s right-wingers than showing that they were responsible for the next Palestinian uprising. This is not an interpretation; it’s a direct quotation of Deputy Transportation and National Infrastructure Minister Tzipi Hotovely, who visited the Temple Mount last week. To her great sorrow, the local media hardly covered her heroic act, but to her great luck, her visit was all over the Arab media as a further indication that the status quo on the Temple Mount was about to be changed … Lately Israel’s political right has felt a bit threatened: In the last half year, the Arab League peace initiative, which has been in existence for more than a decade, finally began reaching the consciousness of a small number of Israelis. Former head of Saudi General Intelligence Prince Turki Al Faisal published a statement in Haaretz this past summer reaffirming the Muslim world’s willingness for recognition of and full diplomatic relations with Israel if Israel retreats from the West Bank and East Jerusalem. This is not good for Feiglin, Danny Danon, Hotovely & Co: Israelis, God forbid, might think that peace is possible. But fortunately, they always have the option of heating up the temperature, for example, by marching to the Temple Mount….”
        http://www.haaretz.com/blogs/strenger-than-fiction/.premium-1.626287 – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2014/11/blinded-shufat-issawiya#sthash.19KkUfjI.dpuf

      • John O
        John O
        November 17, 2014, 3:26 pm

        @Teapot – I’m sure you’re right, and I hope you don’t think my earlier post was belittling the feelings of Palestinians and Muslims over Jerusalem and the Temple Mount.

    • just
      just
      November 17, 2014, 1:35 pm

      “And while some Jews may be interested inb praying there there is no serious move being made to alter the status of the mount being a Muslim shrine.”

      do you do stand- up comedy, too?

      • Walid
        Walid
        November 17, 2014, 4:44 pm

        Teapot, provided they don’t eventually get carried away and end up asking for a Jewish structure to be built there, what would be the harm in letting Jews pray on the plaza on their Sabath?

        About the Vatican/Mecca question, why is it that the Saudis can build a mosque that can hold 12,000 people 3km (as the crow flies)from the Vatican, while hundreds of thousands Christian ex-pats in Saudia are not allowed to have a single place of worship?

      • seafoid
        seafoid
        November 17, 2014, 5:12 pm

        Walid

        Look at what the bots did in Hebron.

        You won’t get the Jerusalem cinematheque crowd turning up on the plaza . It’ll be the extremists. And there’ll be blood.

        I would keep the status quo on the site. Zionism isn’t mature enough to share anything.

      • Walid
        Walid
        November 17, 2014, 5:27 pm

        Seafoid, there’s going to be blood anyway. Hebron had 20,000 soldiers riding shotgun for 500 crazies, which made them even crazier. If Israel pulls the same stunt with the soldiers, same will happen on the Haram.

        I guess it boils down to goodwill and regrettably Israel doesn’t have any, so you’re probably right. I’m for sharing but it’s evident that Israel wants it all.

      • just
        just
        November 17, 2014, 5:37 pm

        “I would keep the status quo on the site. Zionism isn’t mature enough to share anything.”

        at the very least, they need to ‘keep the status quo’!

    • ziusudra
      ziusudra
      November 18, 2014, 11:37 am

      Greetings DaBakr,
      Historically seen, if it could even be called historical, was that Samaria was the capitol of the Kingdom of Israel, where Jerusalem was a dirt unwalled village of 2K inhabitants under King David! Nothing is what it seems to be when zealots cherish it. Remember the next time you don your Cappi, it ne’er had anything to with Judaism in the ME, it was taken over by the Khazar converts of 740AD, who took the rutual from the Tartars, who used to in veneration of their Kings 24/7! I bet even the Motza historically originated by the Egyptians.
      ziusudra

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 18, 2014, 4:23 pm

        “who took the rutual from the Tartars, who used to in veneration of their Kings 24/7”

        Okay, let’s have a look at that:

        “Kings 24:7King James Version (KJV)

        7 And the king of Egypt came not again any more out of his land: for the king of Babylon had taken from the river of Egypt unto the river Euphrates all that pertained to the king of Egypt.”

  5. ivri
    ivri
    November 17, 2014, 2:03 pm

    Don`t you have a feeling sometimes that Palestinians are not fighting Israel but History itself. This is the tenth if not twentieth round and compare today`s Israel to what it was when these battles began about a century ago. Would it not be much better for everybody directly concerned (faraway cheerleaders excluded) to accept a status-quo in which the country is indeed a Jewish state with a cooperating, rather than endemically hostile, attitude as a minority? Jews were in thousand worse conditions as minorities in other countries, West and East, yet managed in most of the time to be cooperative in their host countries. That attitude – staying loyal to own tradition yet being receptive to others – is perhaps the single most important reason why they lasted through all that so long. Indeed, if not the final, insanely murderous, assault on them in WW2 that would have continued to this date.
    Constantly fighting is not leading Palestinians anywhere but they apparently cannot stop that – pushed at every round by some arousing rhetoric that promises a lot but in the end yields little.

    • a blah chick
      a blah chick
      November 17, 2014, 9:46 pm

      “Don`t you have a feeling sometimes that Palestinians are not fighting Israel but History itself.”

      Or put another way why didn’t the Little Arabs do what was expected of all indigious peoples when faced with a colonizing power, submit or go away. They should have realized when the Zionist arrived they were in the presence of a superior people.

      Query: what are the rights of indigenous people under Zionism?

    • Shingo
      Shingo
      November 18, 2014, 2:52 am

      ews were in thousand worse conditions as minorities in other countries

      No they weren’t. They certainly were not bombed and showered with white phosphorous. Cooperating with Israel just means Israel can go about the killing and ethnic cleansing uninterrupted.

    • eljay
      eljay
      November 18, 2014, 7:41 am

      >> ivreee: Would it not be much better for everybody directly concerned (faraway cheerleaders excluded) to accept a status-quo in which the country is indeed a Jewish state with a cooperating, rather than endemically hostile, attitude as a minority?

      No. What would be much better for everybody is if justice, accountability and equality were respected in Partition-borders Israel and Palestine.

      Unfortunately, Zio-supremacists have make it clear that they have no interest in justice, accountability or equality – they just want “peace” and Jewish supremacism in a supremacist “Jewish State”.

      >> Jews were in thousand worse conditions as minorities in other countries …

      The proper solution to injustices committed to Jewish citizens of those countries was justice, accountability and equality. The proper solution has never been Jewish supremacism in a supremacist “Jewish State”.

    • Horizontal
      Horizontal
      November 18, 2014, 9:33 am

      Don`t you have a feeling sometimes that Palestinians are not fighting Israel but History itself?

      Wow, when you put it that, ivri, Israel seems so . . .dreamy and pre-ordained and all. Gosh, I guess I’ll stop my silly concerns with population cleansing and international law and get with the program.

      Let me ask you this: Considering that the end of the age of colonization has already happened, don’t you have a feeling sometimes that Israel isn’t just fighting the Palestinians but History itself?

    • ziusudra
      ziusudra
      November 18, 2014, 1:55 pm

      Greetings invri,
      ….wouldn’t it be much better…..
      if the Falesteeni would just allow the status quo of a Jewish State in contiguous Falesteena!
      Why are they fighting such a losing battle against our superiority? They should just
      accept that we will go on yiddle by yiddle swallowing up their land & resources & with the Euro Munchins & those philo-zio dudes in the emaralded palace nothing can stop us sojourning on de yellow brick road taking in de poppies & all the rest of important business with our lobbies & banks.
      We would even give them a guarantee of servitude in our Jewish State, we can think of no better opportunity in our universe, after all, no one knows better than we that Arbeit macht Frei!
      sciaccadana
      PS psst, Ischcabibel, that is a fantasy world that Hitler & Goebbels dreamed up, it lasted 12 yrs! Your Zio Paradise will go de same route.

      • ziusudra
        ziusudra
        November 18, 2014, 1:56 pm

        correction sciaccadana aka ziusudra
        ziusudra

    • RoHa
      RoHa
      November 19, 2014, 12:28 am

      So you are suggesting that, if the Palestinians keep their heads down and don’t ask for their rights, the Israeli Jews might let some of them stay in Palestine? And what then? Remain an oppressed minority in their own country for ever? Or at least until the Israelis learn about common decency and stop persecuting them?

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 19, 2014, 3:40 pm

        “Or at least until the Israelis learn about common decency and stop persecuting them?”

        I don’t know. Maybe we should ask “ivri” if that will make the Israelis “normalized” or not.

  6. Walid
    Walid
    November 17, 2014, 4:12 pm

    “I don’t want more soldiers here,” he says. “I make the bottom line– Let them leave the Al Aqsa mosque, we leave them alone.”

    That medical student has the brilliance of a 15 watt incandescent bulb. This is exactly what the Israelis are striving for and this tactic has served them well since 60 years; Israelis put a stranglehold on the Palestinians and when they release it, the Palestinians believe they won something. Here the Palestinian student will end up celebrating a victory if the Israelis leave the Haram grounds, even if the occupation continues another 60 years. Palestinians should leave the Israelis alone only when the occupation ends.

  7. 666
    666
    November 17, 2014, 4:22 pm

    one of these days they all are going to get sick and tired of the endless trench war …the fact is a few months back a tea party took place on Cyprus and a deal was done…..hopefully peace is possible but there will always be some who disagree on both sides but they will be marginalized…..

    anyway……..it is never over until the thin man whistle,s……

  8. Teapot
    Teapot
    November 17, 2014, 5:03 pm

    @Walid

    If the occupation ended, and everyone had equal rights, then I don’t see a problem with Jews praying there. But with the current political situation, there seems no possibility of sharing.

    As for Saudi Arabia’s policies towards Christians, I absolutely do not approve. Everyone should have a right to a place of worship.

  9. Teapot
    Teapot
    November 17, 2014, 9:59 pm

    @John O

    I hope you don’t think my earlier post was belittling the feelings of Palestinians and Muslims

    I don’t think that. I just wanted to point out that the occupation plays a big part when it comes to al-Aqsa, and that it’s not just a question of religious sentiments. Sorry if I sounded judgmental. :)

  10. Daniel Rich
    Daniel Rich
    November 18, 2014, 4:02 am

    Four dead in suspected Palestinian attack on Jerusalem synagogue.

    Will this suffice [to get that intifada going, after the Apartheid State’s response to this]?

    Sad, that four more lives are cut short [RIP], no denying in that, but the fact that if these 4 individuals would’ve been Palestinians, the entire narrative would be torn apart as a hoax and I guess that’s the true breadth and width of the wretchedness we find ourselves in.

  11. jon s
    jon s
    November 18, 2014, 4:34 am

    Horrific terrorist attack this morning , on a synagogue in Jerusalem. Jews murdered at prayer, in their tallit and tefillin.

    http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/1.627084

    • seafoid
      seafoid
      November 18, 2014, 5:15 am

      Netanyahu vows to ‘respond with a heavy hand’

      That’s really going to work, isn’t it? I mean, that really makes Jews safe. Bomb another few hospitals, that’ll teach the Untermenschen,.

      • seafoid
        seafoid
        November 18, 2014, 5:30 am

        This is the point where Zionism loses control. Likud has no answers. It doesn’t matter how extremist the Zionist public in Israel is. There is no calm. There won’t be.

        Operation Brothers Keeper was the last Iron fist style op in the West Bank that led to the murder of Abu Khdeir

        http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.600039

        “Alongside the attempts to locate the kidnapped teens, Brother’s Keeper is also an operation motivated by the desire for revenge. But Israel lacks targets to attack. There are only a few wanted men from the Hamas military wing in the West Bank that the Shin Bet knows about; otherwise they would have been arrested a long time ago by Israel or the Palestinian security services. Now Israeli politicians are putting pressure on the defense establishment to bring it new targets, and in response they are locating more and more offices of the Hamas civilian charity infrastructure. ”

        http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.602189

        “10:41 P.M. A high ranking security tells Haaretz: “Hamas has suffered a terrible beating over the past two weeks. Its institutions paving the way for terrorist actions against Israel have been shut down and many of its senior members were arrested. We will continue to persecute them and will draw a high price from them. The quick solving of the crime by the Shin Bet, which within a 24-hour period identified the kidnappers, together with military pressure in the field, prevented the kidnappers from hiding the bodies and negotiating with Israel for their return. It is only a matter of time until we reach the murders.” (Gili Cohen) ”

        Israel has no strategy other than status quo forever so it can’t respond coherently to any move from the Palestinians. Innocent Jews pay the price

        And Yossi Israeli living in his Hebrew bubble has no idea what is going on.

      • Kay24
        Kay24
        November 18, 2014, 6:44 am

        This attack is terrible, but then so was the unnecessary attack of Gaza where over 2000 people were killed by deadly precision bombs and banned weapons, which common sense tells us is worse. Over 10 Mosques have been attacked, burned, and desecrated, and almost daily, a Palestinian life has been violently taken, yet CNN made this incident into a zio propaganda opportunity, making it the headlines, having snakes like Regev come and politicize this attack, whereas no mention or headlines about the Al Aqsa Mosque being desecrated, or the daily murders of Palestinians.
        Chickenshit must be happy that he has got yet another opportunity to “mow that lawn”.

      • seafoid
        seafoid
        November 18, 2014, 7:10 am

        The whole system is sick.
        IDF violence can’t make Jews safe.

      • Mayhem
        Mayhem
        November 18, 2014, 7:22 am

        Kay24, you can’t tell the difference between people who are killed whilst protesting violently or firing rockets or planning terrorist attacks and innocent people who are killed in cold blood!
        Are Palestinians going to screw up good and proper now by giving Israel every good reason to clamp down heavily on them?

      • annie
        annie
        November 19, 2014, 3:18 am

        Are Palestinians going to screw up good and proper now by giving Israel every good reason to clamp down heavily on them?

        that’s definitely the hope of many.

      • just
        just
        November 18, 2014, 7:25 am

        Just endured CNN– blergh. Beinart was Beinart. Steve King was King. Kerry was Kerry. Cuomo was Cuomo.

        The attack that killed people makes me sick. Our response makes feel sicker.

        Netanyahu’s tweet accusing Abbas of incitement and blaming him/that for the attack is so messed up in so many, many ways.

      • just
        just
        November 18, 2014, 7:46 am

        “The trial of three men accused of murdering East Jerusalem teenager Mohammed Abu Khdeir in July opened on Monday in the Jerusalem District Court.

        The main defendant, Yosef Haim Ben-David, declined to respond to the charges, due to what his lawyer claimed was an inability to communicate. “He’s confused, and it’s clear he’s in denial,” attorney Asher Ohayon said. “He’s in a serious spiral, and he hasn’t managed to get himself out of it.”

        The other two defendants, whose names can’t be published because they are both minors, admitted to most of the facts in the indictment, but sought to downplay their role in the killing and denied the charge of premeditated murder. They said they had never had any intention of killing Abu Khdeir, and accused Ben-David of leading them into the murder without their being aware that this was his intention.

        Attorney Zion Amir, who is representing one of the minors, said in his response to the charges that following the murder of three Jewish teens by Hamas operatives in June, Ben-David talked openly about his desire to commit a revenge attack and even discussed various ideas for it, including vandalism and assault. Nevertheless, Amir said, his client “denies that he was party to planning a murder.”

        Lawyer Avi Himi, representing the other minor, said his client was aware “only of the possibility of damage to property, or at most bodily harm.” Himi also complained that police extracted a confession from his client even though the teenager suffers from complex psychological problems that the investigators knew about. In addition, he said, police deprived his client of sleep, prevented him from consulting a lawyer and failed to either videotape or audiotape the confession. ”

        http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/1.627063

        right-o.

      • seafoid
        seafoid
        November 18, 2014, 7:55 am

        Just

        there’ll be more Jews taking the law into their own hands in the next few weeks following incitement from the chief Wizard of Zion. They won’t all be able to cite mental illness.

      • just
        just
        November 18, 2014, 8:04 am

        true, seafoid.

        “Israel is to ease gun controls for those licensed to carry weapons such as off-duty army officers or private security guards, public security minister, Yitzhak Aharonovich, has announced.

        He told IDF Radio that in the wake of the synagogue killings the easing of restrictions would apply to incidents of self-defence, Israel National News reports.”

        http://www.theguardian.com/world/middle-east-live/live/2014/nov/18/jerusalem-synagogue-attack-live-updates

        and

        “The family of the men said Israeli forces raided their homes following the attack and detained 12 family members, including Abu Jamal’s wife, mother, and brothers Munther, Jamal, Imade, Murad, and Muawiya.

        The brother of Udayy, Mutaza, was also detained.

        At least 17 Palestinians suffered tear gas inhalation and five were injured by rubber-coated steel bullets during clashes following the arrests.

        Israeli forces sealed the entrance to the Jabal al-Mukabbir neighborhood with cement blocks.”

        http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=740797

      • ivri
        ivri
        November 18, 2014, 8:13 am

        Kay24: “This attack is terrible, but then so was….
        Well, that`s exactly the crux of the matter – regardless of how horrific a Palestinian atrocity is there is always this apologetic of the “but then so was….” type, which is a kind of backdoor justification of that.
        After the Sep 11 terror attack it was the same, namely it was presented as terrible with the “but then….” addition – some list of real or imaginary sins of the US towards Arabs or Muslims. Did this apologetics help there? It`s not likely to help here either.

      • eljay
        eljay
        November 18, 2014, 8:22 am

        >> just: link to theguardian.com

        “Israel is to ease gun controls for those licensed to carry weapons such as off-duty army officers or private security guards, public security minister, Yitzhak Aharonovich, has announced.

        He told IDF Radio that in the wake of the synagogue killings the easing of restrictions would apply to incidents of self-defence, Israel National News reports.”

        In the wake of Israel’s 60+ years and on-going campaign of theft, occupation, colonization of Palestinian land and oppression, torture and murder of Palestinians, the security minister really should ease gun controls for Palestinians. The easing of restrictions would, of course, apply to incidents of self-defence.

      • Kay24
        Kay24
        November 18, 2014, 9:23 am

        It is frightening to think that it was that same hand that was responsible for the massacre in Gaza, the arrests of many innocent kids, and destruction of homes.

        That hand has the blood of thousands. More to come.

      • Horizontal
        Horizontal
        November 18, 2014, 9:45 am

        Just a matter of time. This is being played out along predictable paths.

        All the Israeli incitement that went before will be forgotten (not that it was ever highlighted by the MSM in the first place) and the “Israel’s right to defend themselves” meme will get another trot around the track.

        No settlers, no right wing extremism, no “Death to the Arabs” chants, no occupation, no shooting of children, no demolishing of homes, no bombing of hospitals, no mass arrests, no squirting of skunk water, no stealing of clean water, no nothing at all.

        Here’s what we’ll get: Dead Jews, Terror attack. Dead Americans, Arab terrorists responsible. Israeli leader vowing justice.

        And that’s all we’ll get. The story writes itself. The fact that Netanyahu knowingly set all this in motion will never even be whispered.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 21, 2014, 5:39 pm

        “Kay24, you can’t tell the difference between people who are killed whilst protesting violently or firing rockets or planning terrorist attacks and innocent people who are killed in cold blood!”

        At IDF training, Corporal Mayvenhem is training the young IDF recruits in life-saving protectiveprocedures:

        ‘Okay men, yesterday we went over the proper use of the gas mask, and last week we trained on body-armor, and other protective devices. Today, I will show you something which will save your life on the Hasbara battlefield more times than those will! We will learn how to don tallit and tefillin under combat conditions, in less than 45 seconds.
        Think of it, troops. From an Israeli operating in territory outside the state of Israel, to a pious Rabbi, praying, in less than 45 seconds! Now, that’s protection!!

      • Kay24
        Kay24
        November 21, 2014, 6:01 pm

        “Kay24, you can’t tell the difference between people who are killed whilst protesting violently or firing rockets or planning terrorist attacks and innocent people who are killed in cold blood! “-

        Lame job blaming the victims, Mayhem. Funny when the settlers protest violently they are given hugs and kisses, whereas the Palestinians are brutally killed.

        Being killed in cold blood is when little boys play soccer and are blown into bits, by blood thirsty Israeli troops, who, according to the media who were witnesses, were not in any imminent danger, but lied when confronted that they were. Being killed in cold blood is when 2 kids were brutally gunned down, during the Nakba anniversary, by the human savages wearing Israelil uniforms, again the lies, the story about rubber bullets, and then an autopsy shows, that indeed they were killed by bullets that matched the human animal’s gun. Yeah that is cold blooded.

    • eljay
      eljay
      November 18, 2014, 7:20 am

      >> jon s: Horrific terrorist attack this morning , on a synagogue in Jerusalem.

      I condemn the attack and sincerely hope that the perpetrators are brought to justice.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 20, 2014, 3:24 pm

        “I condemn the attack and sincerely hope that the perpetrators are brought to justice.”

        Well, since Israel shot down a couple of Palestinians, without making any investigation, making any arrests, let alone an indictment and trial, they will never be “brought to justice”. Instead the (police, “security forces” or army, you choose) Israelis shot a couple of guys, is now demolishing houses. But “justice” as we strive for it in a democracy? Nope, they got none of that.

        And I might mention, the minimum permissible amount is 3ml. of liquid lachrymosity. And “Jon s” and “Yonah” will be measuring, and woe betide those whose tear-ducts won’t make a Niagra on demand.

      • eljay
        eljay
        November 20, 2014, 3:35 pm

        >> Mooser: But “justice” as we strive for it in a democracy? Nope, they got none of that.

        In a supremacist “Jewish State”, they strive for Zio-supremacist “morality” (goal + methods) and “peace”.

        But they don’t seem to give a flying f*ck about justice (or accountability or equality).

    • Mooser
      Mooser
      November 18, 2014, 11:25 am

      “Jews murdered at prayer, in their tallit and tefillin.”

      Wow, I didn’t know Mondoweiss had a Jerusalem fashion reporter. Thanks for letting us know what they were wearing, “Jon s”.

      • seafoid
        seafoid
        November 18, 2014, 11:54 am

        Maybe if the refugees in Gaza had the old tefillin the IDF angel of death might spare them.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 18, 2014, 12:07 pm

        Seafoid, I can’t bring myself to use the word again. How, how can they be so unashamed to use religion this way? It beggars belief, and my belief is already poverty-stricken.

        So will the bloody tallit and tefillin be waved again?

      • Daniel Rich
        Daniel Rich
        November 18, 2014, 8:02 pm

        @Mooser,

        Q: tefillin

        R: Arguably the best option would’ve been to cling on to Teflon….

      • jon s
        jon s
        November 19, 2014, 4:44 am

        Mooser,
        “Fashion”?! That’s all you’ve got to say with the blood hardly dried ? a cynical wisecrack?
        Have you no shame?

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 19, 2014, 10:34 am

        “Have you no shame?”

        “Jons, go try that crap on little kids. You are the one who is so interested in what they were wearing, and felt it necessary to bring up immediately.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 21, 2014, 10:13 am

        “Have you no shame?”

        Yes, I’m ashamed that their tallit and tefillin is being used to make “telegenic dead”.

        “Jon s” I will express proper sympathy when the facts are brought out at trial, and a verdict rendered. I have no insanguinity concerning that! Yes, if these men are guilty, they will be arrested, an investigation made, they will be indicted and brought to trial, and Israel could learn a good deal about the ‘terrorism’ of the Palestinians.

    • Kris
      Kris
      November 18, 2014, 12:05 pm

      “Terrorist attack?” Would that apply also to the attacks by the Jewish settlers on a Palestinian school four hours after the attacks in the synagogue? Not sure what they were wearing.

      http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=740847

      • jon s
        jon s
        November 19, 2014, 2:37 pm

        Mooser, As if I was interested in their shirts, pants and jackets…I mentioned the tallit and tefillin to emphasize the horror of innocent civilians slaughtered while davening in the early-morning minyan.

      • seafoid
        seafoid
        November 19, 2014, 3:17 pm

        “mentioned the tallit and tefillin to emphasize the horror of innocent civilians slaughtered while davening in the early-morning minyan. ”

        It’s terrible Jon but it’s hardly more noteworthy than 490 dead children even if they were kitted out in religious gear . If the IDF had killed them and called them terrorists would it have been easier for you ?

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 19, 2014, 3:45 pm

        “Jon s” I got one word for you: “Keffiyeh”

      • seafoid
        seafoid
        November 19, 2014, 4:27 pm

        Jon s

        Tallit and tefillin- those 4 dead were innocent as were the vast majority of people the IDF killed in Gaza.

        But tefillin- I have seen enough pictures of religious soldiers praying outside Gaza and read enough about the ruthlessness of religious soldiers in Gaza the fucked up theology they teach in the religious yeshivas in the West Bank that produce most of the religious IDF officers to know that tefillin don’t always signify innocence, as your use implied.

        http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ben-white/army-rabbi-exhorted-gods-army-they-massacred-palestinians-shujaiya

        “Prominent settler and former Israeli army chief rabbi Avichai Rontzki delivered a “messianic, fiery speech” to Israeli forces prior to the devastating massacre of the Gaza City neighborhood of Shujaiya, it was revealed today.
        An account of the speech appears in a new piece by Nahum Barnea, a prominent journalist at Israeli newspaper Yedioth Ahronoth, and is based on remarks made by a soldier present at the time.
        The soldier related that before their invasion of Shujaiya, troops were gathered to “listen to the words” of Rontzki, who “praised the miracle of God’s army.” According to an article last week in Kipa, a religious-Zionist oriented news site, Rontzki has been performing reserve duty and “encouraging the combatants on the ground.”
        The Electronic Intifada has already reported on the phenomenon of groups of Jewish mystics offering support to the Israeli forces currently shelling Gaza, as well as the Israeli army commander who declared “holy war” on Palestinians.
        “Damned”
        The anonymous soldier in Barnea’s article also recounts a similar event prior to the Shujaiya massacre:
        We got close to Kibbutz Nahal Oz and then they gathered us together. You know how it is in the army – when told to gather, you gather. Waiting for us was a bunch of Breslev Hasidic Jews singing “Messiah, Messiah,” dancing and bouncing around. We formed a circle around them, and a bunch of fighters danced with them in ecstasy
        Israel’s ground assault on the Gaza Strip began late on Thursday 17 July, with tanks receiving orders “to open fire at anything that moved.” Over the next few days, the Shujaiya district of Gaza City was subjected to intense and indiscriminate bombardment, including 600 shells fired by an artillery battalion and 100 one-ton bombs dropped from the air.
        Rontzki’s speech to Israeli soldiers recalls his time as Israeli army chief rabbi, when, in 2009, he told religious students that troops who “show mercy” towards the enemy in wartime will be “damned.” During Israel’s so-called “Operation Cast Lead” massacre in 2008-09, the army rabbinate under his leadership distributed inflammatory publications that referred to the massacre as “a war on murderers.””

        http://mondoweiss.net/2014/07/death-arabs-jerusalem

        “Most visibly, mobs of Jewish nationalists march through West Jerusalem streets chanting maavet la’aravim ‘death to Arabs.’ The mobs are usually composed of Mizrahi youth, themselves of Arab descent and at most two generations removed from Arabic language and culture, with haircuts modeled after their favorite soccer players. Often there are religious nationalists with kippahs and the fringes of a tzitzit dangling from under their shirts. Sometimes there are even a few beautiful young women scattered among the mostly male mobs. I struggle to comprehend their hate. ”

        The thugs have also contaminated religious life.

      • just
        just
        November 19, 2014, 11:47 pm

        jon s

        how do you feel about Dr. Baruch Goldstein’s caper? please tell me.

  12. ivri
    ivri
    November 18, 2014, 7:58 am

    Seaefoid: “There is no calm. There won`t be”
    It`s true but not the key issue – that is: to whose detriment it is? As different from past times, when Israel was less confident and less prepared to terror, this time around it could cost the Palestinians, when the dust settles, what has been left in their control in Jerusalem.

    • seafoid
      seafoid
      November 19, 2014, 4:29 pm

      Ivri

      How much will it cost to have security at every synagogue?
      That’s a little foretaste of the occupation coming on balance sheet.

      bibi promised you a free occupation

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 19, 2014, 6:04 pm

        Seafoid, it’s always the ones with the get-out-of-Israel-free cards that are furthest to the right. I mean, after all, if it does come to catastrophe and calamity, who will be the ones, the Jews stuck in Palestine to take the consequences? Why worry about their fates?

    • seafoid
      seafoid
      November 20, 2014, 6:35 am

      Mooser

      All the war propaganda, all the screaming and lies and hatred, comes invariably from people who are not fighting”. George Orwell.

      Success is more permanent when you achieve it without destroying your principles. ~Walter Cronkite

      “The purely agitational attitude is not good enough for a detailed consideration of a subject” Nehru

    • jon s
      jon s
      November 20, 2014, 4:35 pm

      Just,
      As to your question re Baruch Goldstein, we’ve been over this before. Check out my past comments and search “Goldstein”.
      for example:

      http://mondoweiss.net/2014/05/museum-misuse-tragedy#comment-668410

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 21, 2014, 10:17 am

        “As to your question re Baruch Goldstein, we’ve been over this before. Check out my past comments and search “Goldstein”.”

        Well, “Jon s”, I’d like to believe you, but you are so mendacious, prevaricate so incessantly, and are just plain wrong about so many facts, what basis do we have for believing you? None, whatsoever.

      • CigarGod
        CigarGod
        November 21, 2014, 10:29 am

        Would be nice to have a “like” button, mooser. But then you’d get a big head.

      • just
        just
        November 21, 2014, 7:37 pm

        ok. read it.

        read nothing about any regret or horror that he slaughtered 29 Muslims and wounded 125 more as they prayed @ the Cave of the Patriarchs.

        then they built a monument to him. you just lumped him in with those that you consider terrorists.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 30, 2014, 2:59 pm

        “Would be nice to have a “like” button, mooser. But then you’d get a big head.”

        Haven’t you ever seen me mounted over a fireplace? It is a big head, not to mention the ol’ palmates. But I don’t want a “like” button. I want spend eternity plumbed to dispense beer from my mouth when my dewlap is pulled.

      • Taxi
        Taxi
        November 30, 2014, 3:44 pm

        Lol Mooser, that’s some funny dewflap shit!

  13. seafoid
    seafoid
    November 18, 2014, 8:29 am

    Gideon Levy update

    http://www.haaretz.com/misc/iphone-article/.premium-1.599667

    “All the seeds of ultra-nationalism and messianism that have been planted over the past several years are germinating now and blooming in the flower beds of rot. All of the Israeli hatreds have reared their heads in the wake of the kidnapping of three yeshiva students /.killing of 4 orthodox whose place of learning/prayer is in the heart of the occupied territory/in a divided city . All of the destructiveness and the intolerance for other views, all of the unity and the falling into rank in Israel have now assembled for the biggest display of ultra-nationalism ever. All the seeds of religiosity have sprouted into a mass prayer service led by the television broadcasters, every single last one of which has volunteered for propaganda duty. No one questions the mass arrests, the re-imprisonment of the Palestinians who were freed in the Gilad Shalit exchange deal, the arrests of members of the Palestinian parliament, the deportations to the Gaza Strip and the warmongering/the bombing of hospitals, the shelling of 10 year old footballers, the summary executions . Anyone who does has sealed his own fate.”

    Stand by for an orgy of right wing Zionist incitement and blood as Israel gets its definitive revenge for the response to its last definite dose of revenge .

    And this is Judaism, is it? This how 44% of American Jews understand themselves ?

    • just
      just
      November 18, 2014, 8:41 am

      powerful, as always. how I wish that his thought processes/wisdom could be transmitted to other Israelis. instead, they hate him.

      thanks for that, seafoid.

  14. seafoid
    seafoid
    November 18, 2014, 8:33 am

    Max Hastings from July

    UK journalists understand the Israeli danse macabre rather better than any career minded mainstream US journalist

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2703531/MAX-HASTINGS-Ive-loved-Israel-brutality-breaks-heart.html

    “Israel’s people deserve a less unworthy leader than Benjamin Netanyahu, and a higher vision than that of reducing Gaza to rubble. This can breed only a new generation of alienated, embittered Palestinian radicals, who will sustain their desperate struggle through decades to come”

    Voila

  15. just
    just
    November 18, 2014, 9:13 am

    “FBI launches investigation into death of US citizens

    As three of the victims held joint US citizenship, the FBI has launched an investigation, CNN reports.”

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/middle-east-live/live/2014/nov/18/jerusalem-synagogue-attack-live-updates#comment-43813579

    The other victim held British/Israeli citizenship.

    RIP.

    • eljay
      eljay
      November 18, 2014, 9:16 am

      “FBI launches investigation into death of US citizens

      As three of the victims held joint US citizenship, the FBI has launched an investigation, CNN reports.”

      I don’t recall reading that the FBI launched investigations into the death of Palestinian U.S. citizens. Interesting.

    • Kay24
      Kay24
      November 18, 2014, 9:20 am

      This is really bad. I think killing innocent people while they pray is deplorable.

      The US response is good, and should be the same whenever an Arab American citizen is killed too. Somehow we do not see the same response.

      • CigarGod
        CigarGod
        November 18, 2014, 9:56 am

        I don’t think the USA response is good. It is the same John Kerry pandering puppet. It’s winter…why dont the cold fingers of the puppeteer shock him into reality?

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 18, 2014, 1:50 pm

        “This is really bad. I think killing innocent people while they pray is deplorable”

        You might want to Google the names and histories of the victims. Of course, everybody is innocent while they pray.

      • Kay24
        Kay24
        November 18, 2014, 2:16 pm

        CigarGod, I meant the part where the FBI will be investigating. Not the verbal response by Kerry.

      • CigarGod
        CigarGod
        November 18, 2014, 2:18 pm

        Copy that.

      • Maximus Decimus Meridius
        Maximus Decimus Meridius
        November 18, 2014, 3:10 pm

        @mooser

        ”You might want to Google the names and histories of the victims. ”

        Why?

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 19, 2014, 10:36 am

        “Why?”

        To find out who they are.

      • Maximus Decimus Meridius
        Maximus Decimus Meridius
        November 19, 2014, 10:39 am

        Again, though, why?

        Was there anything particularly interesting about these 4 men? Are you suggesting they were targetted deliberately?

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 19, 2014, 3:51 pm

        “Was there anything particularly interesting about these 4 men?”

        Yes, they are very interesting men. I hope you don’t think they are four random Rabbis from the US and UK who decided they really, really had to pray at the Mosque this week, and got a flight together.

    • Horizontal
      Horizontal
      November 18, 2014, 10:01 am

      Boy, that was quick.

      A year past her death, it is appearing that no justice will be served for Rachel Corrie. There will be no FBI investigation or Congressional panel, no sanctions on the state of Israel . . .

      electronicintifada

      • just
        just
        November 18, 2014, 10:18 am

        yep. you nailed it.

      • Rusty Pipes
        Rusty Pipes
        November 18, 2014, 4:52 pm

        Nor any FBI investigation into the death of Turkish American, Furkan Dogan.

  16. CigarGod
    CigarGod
    November 18, 2014, 9:34 am

    “Atomized” is a great word to describe Palestine geographically, but also politically, culturally…even at the family level. I guess it also describes their support in the press…and also among other Arab and or Muslim nations/cultures. Looked at it in this way, it is hard to find little more hope…than one would find in the dying embers of one’s campfire.

  17. just
    just
    November 18, 2014, 9:44 am

    “NABLUS (Ma’an) — Clashes broke out near Nablus on Tuesday after settlers attacked a Palestinian school in the village of Urif, a Palestinian official said.

    Ghassan Daghlas, an official who monitors settler activity in the northern West Bank, told Ma’an that six Palestinians were injured by rubber-coated steel bullets after Israeli forces intervened in clashes with settlers.

    Israeli soldiers fired tear gas and stun grenades at villagers after they clashed with settlers trying to attack a local school.

    The incident took place hours after a deadly attack on a synagogue in Jerusalem which killed four Israelis.

    Earlier, dozens of settlers had gathered along the main road between Nablus and Yizhar settlement following news of the attack, with witnesses saying they planned to attack Palestinian farmers and cars.”

    http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=740847

  18. jon s
    jon s
    November 18, 2014, 10:53 am

    The victims were:
    Rabbi Moshe Twersky,59, head of the English-speaking yeshiva (and grandson of Rabbi Joseph B. Soloveichik)
    U.S.-born Aryeh Kupinsky, 43,
    U.K.-born Avraham Shmuel Goldberg, 68
    U.S.-born Kalman Zeev Levine, 55.

    • Kris
      Kris
      November 18, 2014, 12:17 pm

      Sad to think of the grief and horror of all their families, and sad to think of their violent deaths.

      Sad to know that if the U.S. hadn’t enabled Israel’s crimes from the beginning of its existence, so much similar suffering would have been avoided.

      Sad to know that these deaths will be used by Israel as a pretext to step up their land grabs and ethnic cleansing.

      Sad to realize that it is not unreasonable to imagine that Mossad was behind this conveniently-timed horror.

    • seafoid
      seafoid
      November 18, 2014, 12:22 pm

      Some really insightful stuff on Haaretz

      http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.627122

      “Even those center and leftist Israeli Jews who remain two-state supporters must acknowledge how far Palestinian violence has deferred chances for a Palestinian state. ”

      Like that is really going to help Jews. And Israel was just about to give them a state and everything.

      http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.627127

      “Predictably, the Israeli leadership reacted to the slaughter in the synagogue with two moves: convening the security cabinet, and statements placing direct responsibility for the murders on Palestinian Authority chairman Mahmoud Abbas, popularly known as Abu Mazen. ”

      Obviously everything is his fault. He should tell his people that Israel kills them for their own good and they should be happy to die in Erez Israel under Jewish rule

      • just
        just
        November 18, 2014, 3:01 pm

        yech.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 19, 2014, 3:56 pm

        He should tell his people that Israel kills them for their own good and they should be happy to die in Erez Israel under Jewish rule”

        But Seafoid….Oh wait, I get it now. That sentence is not about Netanyahoo>

    • Mooser
      Mooser
      November 18, 2014, 12:22 pm

      Don’t worry, “Jon s”. They are properly memorialized in Gideon Levy’s column, quoted and linked by Seafoid, above.
      They will not be forgotten, and the bloody tallit will once again become the whole cloth.

    • just
      just
      November 18, 2014, 3:03 pm

      very sad.

      so they were all ‘settlers’?

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 19, 2014, 10:41 am

        “so they were all ‘settlers’?”

        I think thjeir history is pretty settled. They aren’t just some four random Rabbis who suddenly decided they must pray in Jerusalem. Oh here, let me quote Gideon Levy:

        “killing of 4 orthodox whose place of learning/prayer is in the heart of the occupied territory/in a divided city”

        And with duel-passports from UK and US. Just right to incite and take flight. And all under the cloak of the Jewish religion, too. They are not easy men for me to admire, in any way.

      • CigarGod
        CigarGod
        November 19, 2014, 10:49 am

        So, are you all starting to feel that the guys were targetted for revenge, surveilled, followed, and…?

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 19, 2014, 3:59 pm

        “So, are you all starting to feel that the guys were targetted for revenge, surveilled, followed, and…? “

        I doubt it. Don’t you think they sort of announce themselves when they turn up there? I doubt anybody has to follow them.

    • jon s
      jon s
      November 19, 2014, 4:51 am

      The death toll has risen to 5, with the death of Zidan Nahad Seif, age 30.
      He was a policeman, a traffic cop, among the first to arrive on the scene.

      • seafoid
        seafoid
        November 19, 2014, 4:59 am

        Totally pointless death for a stupid system.
        There’ll be guards on all synagogues now. It’ll be just like old Poland.
        With the Jews doing the Cossacks but also the victims when the victims fight back. .

      • CigarGod
        CigarGod
        November 19, 2014, 9:00 am

        Until we turn on our leaders instead of each other…oh never mind. One would have to believe puppets could come to life.

      • Jackdaw
        Jackdaw
        November 19, 2014, 11:32 am

        A Druze who ran to danger when everyone was running away. A man who stood for something.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 19, 2014, 4:01 pm

        “A man who stood for something.”

        Yup, to be a Druze Zionist, you probably have to stand for a lot.

      • just
        just
        November 19, 2014, 4:12 pm

        YOU ran away Jackdaw? tsk tsk.

    • Mooser
      Mooser
      November 21, 2014, 10:19 am

      Gosh, with all those tallits and tefillin on, were they “telegenic dead”?

      BTW, correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t religious IDF men wear them into battle?

    • Mooser
      Mooser
      November 21, 2014, 10:23 am

      “Jon s” what is so hysterical is that you say “US born”, as if that is supposed to do anything but indict them.
      So they are “US born”.
      Isn’t it wonderful that ordinary Israelis have to live with the incitement and trouble generated (in part) by people who can simply leave when it gets too hot.

  19. Kay24
    Kay24
    November 18, 2014, 1:00 pm

    Chickenshit right now on CNN taking advantage of this horrible situation to whine about Jewish lives being taken, the glee on the streets of Gaza, and that the Palestinian leadership and Hamas are inciting violence by lying…really this man is delusional. Not ONE word about the murders of Palestinians on a daily basis, the attack on Mosques, and the lies from his side.
    If there is an award for hypocrisy, it would go to Chickenshit today.
    The man who has been called a liar by other leaders, accuses others of lying.

    • just
      just
      November 18, 2014, 2:02 pm

      you’re not really surprised are you, Kay? after all, nobody from Palestine is really ever interviewed.

      Obama and Kerry have special face time allocated for Israelis, but not for Palestinians.

      (he has won that award YEARS ago, aided and abetted by the world!)

      • Kay24
        Kay24
        November 18, 2014, 2:17 pm

        No, I am not surprised. It is almost predictable that the Chickenshit of Israel will act outraged and pretend to be the innocent victim again.

      • just
        just
        November 18, 2014, 2:39 pm

        and his followers continue their rampage………………………..

  20. Jackdaw
    Jackdaw
    November 19, 2014, 12:56 am

    Blaming everything on PM Netanyahu is simplistic scapegoating. It’s not dissimilar to what the Nazis did to the Jews in Weimer Germany. Just convenient scapegoating.

    • annie
      annie
      November 19, 2014, 1:19 am

      who’s blaming everything on netanyau? there’s certainly enough blame to spread around. have you read my latest? http://mondoweiss.net/2014/11/lynched-jewish-extremists

    • Daniel Rich
      Daniel Rich
      November 19, 2014, 1:25 am

      @ Jackdaw,

      Q: to what the Nazis did to the Jews in Weimer Germany

      R: Ever tried to win an argument without having to rely on battered German catchphrases [no pun intended]?

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 19, 2014, 10:43 am

        “Ever tried to win an argument without having to rely on battered German catchphrases [no pun intended]?”

        I’ve noticed that Zionism seems to encourage premature ejaculations. They just spew whatever comes into their heads.

      • just
        just
        November 19, 2014, 1:34 pm

        rotflmao!

        ahem.

    • eljay
      eljay
      November 19, 2014, 7:51 am

      >> Jackdaweee: Blaming everything on PM Netanyahu is simplistic scapegoating. It’s not dissimilar to what the Nazis did to the Jews in Weimer Germany. Just convenient scapegoating.

      You crack me up. The correct Nazi Germany analogy to “blaming everything on Netanyahu is scapegoating” is “blaming everything on Hitler is scapegoating”.

      Which means that your assertion that the Palestinians are also to blame for the problems in Mandate Palestine (i.e., within and outside of Israel’s legitimate borders) means you similarly – and anti-Semitically – blame Jews for problems in Nazi Germany.

      Why do you hate Jews so much?!

  21. Taxi
    Taxi
    November 19, 2014, 2:38 am

    Zionist israelis are utterly shielded from the brutal realities of their occupation of the suffering Palestinians – shielded by government, by media, by school and synagogue propaganda; and shielded by their own self-inflicted pathological denialism. This attack sends a clear message: the bubble-shield is now burst: the occupied in Jerusalem, after almost five decades of being under a brutal and humiliating occupation, will no more be passive and will randomly seek out the occupiers wherever they may be. This is now the reality/facts on the ground that must be understood – this is now the zeitgeist of Jerusalem . You wanna be an occupier there, then be ready to be attacked by the occupied. If Palestinian muslims and Palestinian christians are having to live in constant terror in Jerusalem, then so will the UK and USA jewish occupiers live there in terror too.

    Occupation has severe, if not fatal consequences – live with that mister and missus occupier and stop whining. This is (slo-mo) WAR for Pete’s sakes and will continue escalating incrementally – so if you don’t like living in a foreign war zone, if that stresses you out, then just go back home already. I personally do not feel sorry for a man who dies trying to steal another man’s land.

    And this whole thing that it is a more ‘barbaric’ crime because it took place in a place of worship is completely intellectually bankrupt. Why is that worse than people getting killed in a beautiful forest: a gigantic place of ‘worship’: or in one’s own blissful bed: holiest and most desirable of holy places? Abraham was not ‘jewish’ – Abraham was just Abraham and he was a pagan Arab who squeezed all the pagan gods into one – and we’re supposed to be impressed by this in the 21st century? We’re supposed to treat his followers, despite their hate speech, avarice and theft, as holy victims? Please, enough of this undue over-sensitivity to ‘places of worship’. Just because you’re in a place of worship most certainly does not mean you’re a good person.

    By this inane logic that says it is more ‘barbaric’ to kill worshipers in a place of worship, we should all then feel exceptionally bereaved for all the Da’ish and ISIS effers who were decapitated and dismembered when bombed while praying in mosques.

    • just
      just
      November 19, 2014, 4:04 pm

      Taxi– so wonderful to see you! Super comment, thanks!

      • Taxi
        Taxi
        November 20, 2014, 3:40 pm

        Just,

        Your meet-and-greet is perpetually splendid.

    • Mooser
      Mooser
      November 19, 2014, 4:10 pm

      “And this whole thing that it is a more ‘barbaric’ crime because it took place in a place of worship is completely intellectually bankrupt.”

      Hey, call me a self-hater, call me a moser (just don’t do it if I’m within reach of you) but somehow, oh crap what do I know, I don’t know, I mean, can anybody tell me why I have this feeling that making Jewish religious worship a political act in the service of Zionist expansionism and intransigence (I mean, not just ‘in favor of’ but the act of worship actually in the service of Zionist expansionism and etc.) is not “good for the Jews”?

      I mean heck, when has something like this ever failed us before? I don’t know why I’m so worried. Maybe somebody can explain it.

  22. seafoid
    seafoid
    November 19, 2014, 10:04 am

    Foreign Policy email

    :The grisly murder of five rabbis in Jerusalem marks the latest attack in a wave of violence that Israeli leaders are struggling to contain. “It looked like a pogrom,” an eyewitness to the scene told Yardena Schwartz, who wrote from Jerusalem for Foreign Policy. Three of the rabbis killed were U.S.-born, dual Israeli citizens. They fell victim to two Palestinians carrying meat cleavers, an ax and a gun. The attackers were killed in a shootout with police after exiting the synagogue in the Har Nof area of West Jerusalem.

    More from Schwartz: “While today’s attack was the most gruesome to date, acts of violence like this are becoming elements of daily life in Israel. Whereas previous uprisings were marked by suicide bombings, galvanized by leaders and movements, the latest period of unrest has been characterized by lone wolf attacks. Over the course of the past two weeks, five Israelis have been killed by Palestinians, who stabbed their victims to death with a knife, or ran them over with a car.” More here.

    In a speech after the attack, Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu accused Palestinian leaders of inciting violence and ordered the homes of those connected to the attack destroyed. President Obama condemned the killings. Slim hopes to revive the U.S.-backed peace process have been dashed.

    WTF
    The notion that Israel is a normal country is nuts.
    And Netanyahu accused the Palestinians of incitement so it goes in verbatim.
    So much wrong with 3 short paragraphs.

  23. Mooser
    Mooser
    November 19, 2014, 10:46 am

    Seafoid, “Jon s” is at pains to remind us they died with their tallits and tefillin on.

    • Walid
      Walid
      November 19, 2014, 10:58 am

      “they died with their tallits and tefillin on

      Does it mean that they go straight to heaven?

      • CigarGod
        CigarGod
        November 19, 2014, 11:01 am

        The western equivalent would be to say: they died with their boots on. A sympathetic and heroic image.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 19, 2014, 4:13 pm

        “The western equivalent would be to say: they died with their boots on. A sympathetic and heroic image”

        Oh that’s one, also see “waving the bloody shirt”.

  24. Mooser
    Mooser
    November 19, 2014, 10:48 am

    BTW, quite a dizzying change of perspective, from the full-on military assault on Gaza, to the block-by-block, death in single digits, takeover in Jerusalem.

    • seafoid
      seafoid
      November 19, 2014, 4:34 pm

      Isn’t it ?

      I suppose one jewish fingernail must be worth at least 50 kids in Gaza.

      • a blah chick
        a blah chick
        November 19, 2014, 4:42 pm

        According to Butcher BIBI they were “four innocent and pure Jews,” and that trumps a Palestinian baby anyday.

  25. Kay24
    Kay24
    November 19, 2014, 2:00 pm

    It seems the Obama administration blocked the Pollard’s parole request:

    Group says Obama administration blocked Jonathan Pollard’s parole request
    Washington said freeing U.S. Navy analyst who has served 29 years for spying for Israel would promote disrespect for the law, advocates for his release say.

    Jonathan Pollard, the former U.S. Navy analyst imprisoned 29 years ago for spying for Israel, has submitted a request for parole, but the Obama administration intervened to prevent his release, according to advocates for Pollard’s release.
    Haaretz

    • just
      just
      November 19, 2014, 3:29 pm

      a win.

      the only one, but i’ll take it.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 19, 2014, 4:15 pm

        “the only one, but i’ll take it.”

        Don’t worry. Pollard’s release, and his reception in Israel, could provide a win, too.

      • Kay24
        Kay24
        November 19, 2014, 4:19 pm

        Yep, we’ll take anything. We get so little coming, really.

    • Walid
      Walid
      November 19, 2014, 4:26 pm

      For the US to be so adamant in not letting this creep out of jail, there had to be many Americans that lost their lives as a result of his and Israel’s treachery. After he dies, the US can ship his body to Israel where his burial place will become a sanctuary for other creeps like the one for Goldstein.

    • American
      American
      November 19, 2014, 6:05 pm

      I wish they would release him.
      It would set the US intelligence community on fire.
      At least the half of US Intel agencies that aren’t Israeli moles and agents.

  26. polk
    polk
    November 21, 2014, 5:33 am

    mooser

    what exactly are you hinting at,some sort of conspiracy perhaps.come on out with it now,the tommy knockers want to know ,why the 4 rabbis were murdered.

    i feel them moving in the night from house to house looking for the people who are behind this attack

    where are you

    the professor,the engineer,the retired general,the judge,the doctor

    5 for 5

    • Mooser
      Mooser
      November 22, 2014, 12:56 pm

      “i feel them moving in the night from house to house looking for the people who are behind this attack”

      What on earth are you talking about? Didn’t Israel shoot some people and call it good?

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