Trending Topics:

Phila Inquirer publishes a lie: ‘Anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism are one and the same’

Opinion
on 123 Comments

Clarity is essential in talking about Israel, Zionism, anti-Semitism, and Judaism. Responsible citizens must make careful distinctions.

An op-ed entitled “Are Jews Safe in Europe?” appeared in the Philadelphia Inquirer online on January 15, 2015, by Benjamin Weinthal, of the Foundation for Defense of Democracies, and Asaf Romirowsky, a fellow at Daniel Pipes’s rightwing Middle East Forum. The final paragraph not only merits response, but also circulation beyond the scope of the local audience. It reads:

“There are three lessons from the explosion of European anti-Semitism. First, hatred of Israel can no longer be separated from loathing of Jews. Anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism are one and the same. The hardcore anti-Israel protests that engulfed Europe showed that the demonstrators aimed to dismantle the Jewish state because of its Jewishness. . . .”

Anti-Semitism is a virulent systemic ideology of Jew-hatred resulting in destructive thoughts and actions perpetrated against people because they are Jews. Zionism as a national political movement was a nineteenth century response to European anti-Semitism by advocating a Jewish homeland in Israel.

The recent escalation of anti-Semitic attitudes and incidents in France is not unrelated to violence perpetrated by the Israeli government toward Palestinians. Yet still, anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism are NOT “one and the same,” as Weinthal and Romirowsky claim. Protests directed against present policies and practices of the government of the state of Israel for maintaining the illegal occupation of the Palestinians, denying their human rights, and violating international law are not inherently anti-Semitic. Attacking Jews because they are Jewish IS anti-Semitic.

Not all Jews are Zionists; nor are all Zionists Jewish. To conflate Judaism, an ancient religion with ideals of love and justice, with Zionism, a recent ideology now expressed in territorial expansion, power, and militarism, is to make an egregious error with tragic consequences for all.

Susan Landau

Susan Landau is a Philadelphia-based educator, organizer, and advocate for justice in Palestine.  She is co-editor of the book, Why Palestine Matters: The Struggle to End Colonialism.

Other posts by .


Posted In:

123 Responses

  1. on January 27, 2015, 12:39 pm

    If opposing a racist, violent, militaristic, colonial project such as Zionism is in fact anti-Semitism, then we should all be anti-semites.

    Do these fools not see how dangerous it is to Jews to conflate these two things?

    • Stephen Shenfield on January 27, 2015, 3:46 pm

      They are not fools. They are extremely intelligent liars who welcome danger to Jews because it vindicates their ideology.

      • just on January 27, 2015, 3:49 pm

        +1!

      • on January 27, 2015, 4:21 pm

        I am talking about real danger. As in the world reaching the conclusion it can no longer afford to have Jews around. Naziism took hold in Germany, a nation much more progressive than the USA and one under a lot of Jewish influence, but not nearly so much as the USA today. Plus the Soviet Union and the USA were there to oppose Germany. Who would be able to stop a genocide of Jews in the USA were it to come to that?

      • talknic on January 28, 2015, 3:07 am

        @ Giles “I am talking about real danger. As in the world reaching the conclusion it can no longer afford to have Jews around. “

        Evil knows no bounds. Anything to justify a Greater Israel

      • Mooser on January 28, 2015, 11:15 am

        “They are not fools. They are extremely intelligent liars who welcome danger to Jews because it vindicates their ideology.”

        Although there are not a huge amount of Jews in the world, there’s enough for the same divisions that run through the world to run through the Jews.

    • JeffB on January 27, 2015, 4:05 pm

      @Giles

      No Giles those fools don’t. You tell me. What’s the point of Jews surviving in a post-Israel world? Let’s play whati-if.

      The Jews don’t turn on Israel but stand with it. The Arabs win. It is 100 years from now. Israel is gone, Zionism is gone. The territory of Israel is polluted with chemical agents, and radiation from the war. 100k Jews escaped the rest died. And there are another 3m Jews worldwide. Now as a result of having backed Israel the Jews won’t get to spend the next 1000 years discussing the minutia what you can carry in your pockets depending on whether you have telephone wire type X or Y running. Or maybe me don’t get to deal with the full complexity of kosher law as it applies to new genetically engineered foods. And of course we miss out on say another 200 or so pogroms during those 1000 years. Instead maybe it is “convert to Christianity or die”.

      Vs. in the BDS world the Jews of Israel get to be slaughtered in Arab concentration camps rather than die during battle. But the rest of the 3m Jews because they were good little kapos who sold their comrades out get to talk eruvs all they want. Joy of joys!

      If fate holds: that after the holocaust Judaism returned home to die, I don’t like it. But it certainly beats the misery of what came for the 1900 years before. If Israel dies at this point, Judaism doesn’t deserve to live. Since Christianity what has Judaism accomplished that’s worthy of the pain it has brought its people other than Israel?

      You obvious don’t agree, you tell me Giles. What is the danger to Jews of conflating the two things? What could happen to Jews that is even a spec compared to losing Israel?

      • talknic on January 28, 2015, 3:40 am

        @ JeffB “What’s the point of Jews surviving in a post-Israel world?”

        To live. Marry or not. Raise families or not. The stuff most people do, with or without religion.

        ” Let’s play whati-if.”

        Speculation can be fun. You can say anything, no matter how stupid, nonsensical, untrue. However I’ll leave the fantasy up to you and I’ll stick with the facts

        “The Jews don’t turn on Israel but stand with it. The Arabs win. It is 100 years from now. Israel is gone, Zionism is gone. The territory of Israel is polluted with chemical agents, and radiation from the war.”

        As no Arab state has nukes, you’re speculating that Israel is gonna go for the Sampson option. WOW!! Sicko!

        “Vs. in the BDS world the Jews of Israel get to be slaughtered … etc etc etc …”

        The BDS movement says nothing of the sort, but hey, false accusations when speculating can be fun too

        “If fate holds: that after the holocaust Judaism returned home to die, I don’t like it. But it certainly beats the misery of what came for the 1900 years before.”

        In the 1900 years before the 1897 Zionist colonization program was foist upon an unsuspecting the world, Jewish folk could have immigrated to the Jewish people’s historical homeland, gained legitimate citizenship, bought land and settled. Many did. Herzl didn’t bother, nor did his family. Nor did the Zionist Federation until 1936

        ” If Israel dies at this point, Judaism doesn’t deserve to live.”

        Odd. You’re not Jewish? Jewish with a death wish for Judaism? Say that’s make you a self hating Jew! WOW!

        Judaism survived for that 1900 years or so WITHOUT Israel. It survived WITHOUT having been given, completely gratis, 56% of 1948 Palestine and then illegally acquiring by war more than 50% of what remained of 1948 Palestine. Palestinian Jews and Judaism survived in Palestine without the need of a Zionist Movement or Jewish state.

        Say …. Did you have fun making up your sick little fantasies?

      • RoHa on January 28, 2015, 4:58 am

        “If fate holds: that after the holocaust Judaism returned home to die, I don’t like it. But it certainly beats the misery of what came for the 1900 years before. ”

        Gee! 1900 years of a fate worse than death. (And there’s a phrase for Mooser to play with.) One wonders why they didn’t all give up.

        “Since Christianity what has Judaism accomplished that’s worthy of the pain it has brought its people other than Israel?”

        So you agree that, by bringing pain, Judaism is bad for its believers? (Not that Christianity isn’t.) But how is Israel worthy of the pain suffered over those 1900 years?

        Do you think that, if asked, those poor, suffering, Jews through those 1900 years would say, “Oh, right. Some Jews in the far future will be able to persecute a bunch of Arabs. That makes everything all right, then.” and, thus encouraged, carry on with their persecuted lives?

      • Mooser on January 28, 2015, 10:40 am

        “Gee! 1900 years of a fate worse than death. (And there’s a phrase for Mooser to play with)”

        Well, with not even one cup coffee in me, my first reaction was “Well, here’s a fart worse then death, JeffyB is back”

      • eljay on January 28, 2015, 10:55 am

        >> JeffBeee: If Israel dies at this point, Judaism doesn’t deserve to live.

        Judaism deserves to live as long as there are people who freely choose to adhere to that faith. When there are no more people who freely choose to adhere to it, then and only then should Judaism stop living. Why do you hate Jews so much that you want the fate of their faith to be tied to the fate of an oppressive, colonialist, expansionist and supremacist state?

        >> What is the danger to Jews of conflating the two things?

        The danger to non-Zionist Jews is that blowback which should be directed at Israel or at Zio-supremacists like you will be directed against them instead. Why do you hate Jews so much that you wish to make every one of them responsible for the hateful and immoral actions of people like you?

      • Mooser on January 28, 2015, 11:22 am

        ” But it certainly beats the misery of what came for the 1900 years before. ”

        There’s a lot of misery in the world. I’m sorry to shock you, but there it is.

        And oh, when I think of the fate of all those Jews, in their millions, who went to the US, where there was no real Jewish community, no official Jewish leadership, no Jewish protection, and each Jew had to face the Gentiles and the Government as an individual. No, I mustn’t dwell on it, I’ll plotz

      • Mooser on January 28, 2015, 11:28 am

        “Say …. Did you have fun making up your sick little fantasies?”

        There’s no better way to get a good Ziocaine Syndrome episode started. Through all the stages, until the blessed Ziocaine Amnesia erases the memory. Sufficient unto the day is the Syndrome episode thereof, if you get my drift.

      • Philemon on January 28, 2015, 9:50 pm

        “Say …. Did you have fun making up your sick little fantasies?”

        Well, duh! Of course, he did.

        JeffB lives in his own little world where he is the Hero, who alone recognizes that might makes right, and all those Geneva Conventions were for sissies.

        Sorry, but JeffB is not right in the head.

    • PofTarsus on January 29, 2015, 10:11 pm

      The usual suspects: Benjamin Weinthal, with the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies, an alleged ‘think tank’ founded by the notorious neocon Clifford D. May, and Asaf Romirowsky, with Middle East Forum, a similar outfit run by neocon Daniel Pipes, who also created Campus Watch that monitors and tries to intimidate student groups and university professors who don’t tow a pro-Israel line. It is regrettable (but not surprising) that this crowd actually gets an airing in the mainstream press, including the “Philadelphia Enquirer.”

      But to their false equating of Zionism with anti-Semitism:

      “Trampling on the rights of the Palestinians in the name of our exclusive right to the country, and by dint of a divine decree, is an ineradicable stain on Jewish history. Anyone who becomes entrenched in these views will end up bringing about the international ostracism of all of Israel, and if that happens, it won’t be anti-Semitism.”
      — Israeli historian Zeev Sternhell

  2. Walid on January 27, 2015, 12:47 pm

    “hatred of Israel can no longer be separated from loathing of Jews ”

    FWIW, while I have deep hatred of Israel, I feel no loathing whatever of Jews.

    Weinthal’s axiom is bogus.

    • bintbiba on January 27, 2015, 1:30 pm

      There are many fellow human Jews I love an respect… …There are many fellow human Arabs I loathe and despise.
      What does that make me ?!!

      • pabelmont on January 27, 2015, 1:48 pm

        Human? Emotional?

      • RoHa on January 28, 2015, 4:59 am

        Depressingly normal.

    • DaBakr on January 27, 2015, 11:16 pm

      replace that with:
      “while I have deep hatred of the Indian Nations, I feel no loathing whatever of First Nations[people]” and one can start to see how little sense it makes.

      • Mooser on January 28, 2015, 11:36 am

        while I have deep hatred of the Indian Nations, I feel no loathing whatever of First Nations[people]” and one can start to see how little sense it makes. “

        You are right, it makes no sense at all. Why would anybody, (except maybe you, which is why I ask) at this point have a “deep hatred of the Indian Nations”?

      • eljay on January 28, 2015, 11:52 am

        >> DaBakreee: replace that with: “while I have deep hatred of the Indian Nations, I feel no loathing whatever of First Nations[people]” and one can start to see how little sense it makes.

        1. It makes perfect sense. One can like First Nations people and Jews and still condemn a supremacist “First Nation” and a supremacist “Jewish State” for their supremacism.

        2. By your twisted, Zio-supremacist “logic”, every person who condemns authoritarianism and/or supremacism in – for example – China, Russia and Saudi Arabia must also hate every Chinese, Russian and Saudi Arabian person. And that’s simply and very obviously untrue.

        But it makes for a great pity party for Zio-supremacists like you to keep thinking that all Jews are hated simply because hateful and immoral Zio-supremacists like you are condemned for your past and ON-GOING (war) crimes.

        Poor little DaBakreee. Aggressor-victimhood is such a tough gig… :-(

      • talknic on January 28, 2015, 3:21 pm

        @ DaBakr “replace that with:
        “while I have deep hatred of the Indian Nations, I feel no loathing whatever of First Nations[people]” and one can start to see how little sense it makes.”

        Fail! Another desperate dollop of Ziopoop !

        Unlike Israel, the Indian Nations were not given completely gratis, 56% of an existing country for a state. The Indian Nations did not then go on to illegally acquire by war a further 50% or more of what remained of that country. They did not illegally annex, illegally settle, illegally dispossess the rightful inhabitants of the USA based on those inhabitants not being of a certain religious background, destroying their villages, homes, farms, livelihoods, all the while ignoring the laws and a charter and conventions they had ratified and promised to uphold, while completely ignoring hundreds of resolutions from the world body they had pleaded to join. Resolutions giving them the opportunity to adhere to the binding laws those resolutions emphasized and reaffirmed.

        Had the Indian Nations, like Israel, done all of the above, you might have had a point. They didn’t, so you don’t!

        Then again, perhaps you were attempting to demonstrate what a completely brainwashed f*ckwit idiot for a Greater Israel might say in desperately attempting to justify the unjustifiable. In that case congratulations! Well done. Keep up th’ good work!

      • just on January 28, 2015, 3:40 pm

        Thank you very much, talknic.

        You are a gem.

    • DavidDaoud on January 28, 2015, 10:46 am

      Walid, of course he knows it’s bogus, but he also knows that a lot of American Christian Zionists will swallow it. Without question. Without thinking.

    • traintosiberia on January 29, 2015, 8:27 am

      That’s why there was no antisemisitism prior to 1948. There was no hatred of the Jews.

  3. eljay on January 27, 2015, 1:10 pm

    “There are three lessons from the explosion of European anti-Semitism. First, hatred of Israel can no longer be separated from loathing of Jews. Anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism are one and the same. The hardcore anti-Israel protests that engulfed Europe showed that the demonstrators aimed to dismantle the Jewish state because of its Jewishness. . . .”

    This guy is an idiot.

    1. One can hate Israel and not hate Jews*, so the hatreds can indeed be separated. Anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism are not necessarily one and the same.

    (*It’s interesting that, for the author, hatred of Israel doesn’t imply a hatred of non-Jews, despite the fact that non-Jews comprise 20% of Israel’s population. That reeks of Zio-supremacism.)

    2. “Jewish State” is a religion-supremacist construct. Supremacist constructs have no right to exist. “Jewish State” must be dismantled.

    3. Israel, however, exists and should continue to exist as a secular and democratic (and even “culturally Jewish”) Israeli state – a state of and for all of its citizen, immigrants, ex-pats and refugees, equally.

    • DaBakr on January 27, 2015, 11:27 pm

      @ej

      keep telling yourself how deeply you can hate, loath and despise Israel without that having any baring on how you feel about jews. nazi’s also didn’t really have a problem with the jewish religion perse, they just had a problem with the dangerous, evil, pernicious and filthy cabal of powerful jews that had enough plans in place to run the worlds finances and make the world miserable for everybody else. thats who they hated, not plain old jewish people.
      you will have to excuse the minions of folks who don’t quite trust humanity as a whole yet to accurately parse out who and what they hate vs. who and what they don’t hate before they commit too some type of action. hate is such a strong word anyway, how about annoyed. bothered.

      • Mooser on January 28, 2015, 11:08 am

        Shorter Dabakr: ‘Don’t blame the Zionists! Blame the Jews!’

      • eljay on January 28, 2015, 11:13 am

        >> DaBakreee: @ej keep telling yourself how deeply you can hate, loath and despise Israel without that having any baring [sic] on how you feel about jews.

        You’re funny, DaBakreee. Funny how? Funny like a clown! :-)

        But your little rant won’t make me dislike non-Zionist Jews. Do you know why? Because they’re not hateful and immoral supremacists like you. Poor little DaBakreee. :-(

      • talknic on January 28, 2015, 4:02 pm

        @ DaBakr “keep telling yourself how deeply you can hate, loath and despise Israel without that having any baring on how you feel about jews “

        Say … what is it about //“3. Israel, however, exists and should continue to exist as a secular and democratic (and even “culturally Jewish”) Israeli state – a state of and for all of its citizen, immigrants, ex-pats and refugees, equally” // that you can’t understand?

        If you need help, just ask…

        “nazi’s …. didn’t really have a problem with the jewish religion perse, they just had a problem with the dangerous, evil, pernicious and filthy cabal of powerful jews that had enough plans in place to run the worlds finances and make the world miserable for everybody else. thats who they hated, not plain old jewish people”

        I see. So we should hate all Germans, right? Excluding of course German Jews and their lineal descendants http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/people/columns/intelligencer/10823/

  4. HarryLaw on January 27, 2015, 1:13 pm

    Pro Zionist Christians are far more populous than Pro Zionist Jews in the US this article by the Revd Stephen Sizer claims Pro Zionist Christians outnumber Pro Zionist Jews 10 to 1. https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/articles/guest-writers/6743-christian-zionism-the-new-heresy-that-undermines-middle-east-peace

  5. on January 27, 2015, 1:15 pm

    I don’t think you will find Christians creating and staffing AIPAC, ICE, CAMERA, etc.

    Just some dupes

  6. amigo on January 27, 2015, 1:52 pm

    When I was young during the “troubles ” ,(modern version of “The Irish Question”,) I hated England for all the crimes it committed against my fellow Irishmen and women.I did not hate all English people.I loathed Thatcher and Heath and all the other “Brutish” leaders who managed Britains cruel policies against my people.

    Are these stupid zioinsts suggesting they are different.They sound like very desperate folks who know the screw is tightening around the neck of zionism and is slowly squeezing the life out of it.

    Good riddance and if that makes me an antisemite , then I wear that badge proudly.

    • John O on January 27, 2015, 2:43 pm

      As a Brit of Irish parentage, my view of the “Troubles” was shaped more than anything by my conversations with one of the men who took part in the Easter Rising of 1916. He was the father-in-law of one of my many Dubliner cousins. He had shared a cell with Thomas McDonagh (one of the leaders shot after the Rising), been visited by Mrs Pankhurst in prison in London, and then been sent to a POW camp in Wales, from which he did not try to escape, Irish rebels being at the time even less popular than the Germans. His attitude was very straightforward – whatever had happened in the past was in the past, and in the 1970s it was time for political engagement, not the gun.

  7. pabelmont on January 27, 2015, 2:05 pm

    Intelligent people all know, and most are careful to respect, the difference between antisemitism and anti-Zionism.

    However, not all people are intelligent and quite a few are miserably ill-informed. For instance, many people have been misinformed when they heard that Israel is the country of the Jewish people — and they believe it!

    And many people have observed that most “noisy” Jews (by “noisy” I mean those that speak on radio and TV and get into MSM print and those who own big newspapers) appear to love Israel and support Israel (and AIPAC) quite as if they were loyal to Israel — on the basis of which these miserably ill-informed people conclude, quite reasonably IMO, that all or most Jews are loyal to Israel and support Israel hook, line, and sinker. Support Israel’s crimes against Palestinians.

    Now, among these (deliberately on the part of MSM) miserably ill-informed people are those who have heard of Palestinians as victims, heard about Gaza-2014, and so forth, and have become anti-Zionists. Good for them. However, some of them express this anti-Zionism as hatred of Jews.

    All very reasonable. But don’t blame them: blame the MSM and blame the noisy Jews. And blame all the standing-on-the-sidelines Jews who haven’t risen up in disgusted rebellion against the pro-Zionist forces. And blame Israel for its crimes done, so it claims, in the name of the Jewish people. Israel — seeking to blacken the names of Jews everywhere.

    Now, as we all know, many Jews say, “not in my name” to Israel. But we are not sufficiently numerous or loud enough to inform the wider public. And that wider public may reasonably conflate anti-Zionism with antisemitism.

    Thanks, Israel! Thanks, MSM! Thanks, bought-and-paid-for politicians!

  8. John Douglas on January 27, 2015, 2:40 pm

    Note that in defining antisemitism the US State Dept provides examples, one of which is denying the Jewish people the right to a homeland and for good measure delegitimizing Israel.

    • annie on January 27, 2015, 8:18 pm

      hi john, note that in providing “EXAMPLES of the ways in which anti-Semitism manifests itself with regard to the state of Israel, taking into account the overall context could include” the state department doesn’t ever reference “homeland”. not once.

      also note nowhere on the state department page that provides “Contemporary Examples of Anti-Semitism” is the word “homeland” ever mentioned.

      http://www.state.gov/j/drl/rls/fs/2010/122352.htm

      note the definition at the top of the page, PRIOR to listing other “Contemporary Examples of Anti-Semitism”

      also note at the base of the page “However, criticism of Israel similar to that leveled against any other country cannot be regarded as anti-Semitic.

      • John Douglas on January 28, 2015, 11:33 am

        Thank you, Annie, for the clarification that the term ‘homeland’ was not used. The phrase I intended to paraphrase is:

        “Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, and denying Israel the right to exist. ”

        As I read that, “…their right to self-determinatioin,…” does not mean only the right to vote in whatever country they live but, when accompanied by the final phrase, the right to self-determination as a people. This is likely why the term homeland popped into my brain. It does seem to indicate that someone in the depths of the State Department thinks that anti-Zionism is an example of anti-Semitism. That I disagree goes without saying.

    • RoHa on January 27, 2015, 8:55 pm

      I note also that only the second set of examples makes any reference to the question of the truth or falsity of the anti-Semitic allegations.

      “Making mendacious, dehumanizing, demonizing, or stereotypical allegations about Jews …”

      http://www.state.gov/j/drl/rls/fs/2010/122352.htm

      It seems, then, that in many cases truth is no defence against accusations of anti-Semitism.

      (Not that most of us have to give a hoot about the State Department’s ideas on the matter.)

      • RoHa on January 27, 2015, 9:53 pm

        Or am I underestimating the global reach of the US State Department thought police?

      • annie on January 27, 2015, 10:15 pm

        Roha, the statement at the top not under any sub-heading and framed with an implied caveat [“could be” etc], is likely an accurate assessment of how they define anti semitism:

        “Anti-Semitism is a certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred toward Jews. Rhetorical and physical manifestations of anti-Semitism are directed toward Jewish or non-Jewish individuals and/or their property, toward Jewish community institutions and religious facilities.”

        i agree with that.

      • straightline on January 27, 2015, 10:30 pm

        I am not sure I can agree with that statement, Annie. If a Jewish “community institution” chooses to support the kind of carnage we saw in Gaza last year, then I reserve the right to have a “certain perception” of it, and to manifest that perception rhetorically – but not physically.

  9. just on January 27, 2015, 3:35 pm

    Such lies!

    The FDD and MEF are a despicable bunch, anyway… as are many other propaganda tanks.

  10. JeffB on January 27, 2015, 3:47 pm

    Well I’m glad someone said it. I get that there is not 100% overlap between Zionists, Jews and Israeli without failing to understand the basics. Let me just pull a sentence from the article which I think demonstrates why anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism.

    To conflate Judaism, an ancient religion with ideals of love and justice, with Zionism, a recent ideology now expressed in territorial expansion, power, and militarism, is to make an egregious error with tragic consequences for all.

    Zionism is a belief that exists throughout the bible. Judaism as it exists today is a religion that dates after the fall of Zion. Zionism in its ancient form is older than the Judaism you are talking about. Zionism has existed for centuries in Jewish literature. Zionism had a resurgence in the 19th century and met with practical success which has led to further acceptance in the Jewish community. But even if we exclude the versions that aren’t 150 years old, to equate Zionism which is a total philosophy of being individually (psychologically), morally and collectively (sociologically) for Jews, as nothing more than “territorial expansion, power, and militarism” is simply ridiculous. It shows a writer to be either unbelievably ignorant or having no regard for truth.

    What it is, is pure demonization. If we were just talking about a disagreement regarding a political philosophy that sort of demonization wouldn’t be happening. That kind of anger does not come from one tribe of no importance not getting along with another tribe of no importance. That comes from projecting your inner psychology onto Jews. And that is anti-Semitism. That demonization comes from the belief that Jews are the earthly agents of the “prince of this world” and thus their actions and beliefs of tremendous consequence.

    • straightline on January 27, 2015, 11:01 pm

      I am intrigued, JeffB. Who were these Zionists who predated Judaism? And what happened to them? What did they believe? Where did they live? What exactly were the borders of Zion and how long did it exist for? When was the “fall of Zion”? I appear to be “unbelievably ignorant” on this matter.

      What are the main tenets of this philosophy “which is a total philosophy of being individually (psychologically), morally and collectively (sociologically) for Jews”? Is it only for Jews? I have never heard of a philosophy being restricted to one particular tribe. Please elucidate.

      • JeffB on January 28, 2015, 10:46 am

        @straightline

        I am intrigued, JeffB. Who were these Zionists who predated Judaism? And what happened to them? What did they believe? Where did they live? What exactly were the borders of Zion and how long did it exist for? When was the “fall of Zion”? I appear to be “unbelievably ignorant” on this matter.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herodian_Tetrarchy#mediaviewer/File:Palestine_after_Herod.png

        The area in light green is the core, the area in purple and orange were highly affiliated most of the time and often directly considered part of the territory, though they had a more religiously mixed (Jewish and semi-Jewish and non-Jewish) population. It existed as an independent state during the rein of the Hasmonean and Herodian dynasties from 140 BCE to 67 CE (or more generously 163 BCE to 92 CE). Prior to that it was Greek colony and prior to that a semi-indpendent vassal state called Yehud (depending on how you want to count 589 – 333 BCE).

        What are the main tenets of this philosophy “which is a total philosophy of being individually (psychologically), morally and collectively (sociologically) for Jews”? Is it only for Jews? I have never heard of a philosophy being restricted to one particular tribe.

        Zionism argues that the Jewish tribe has a unique history and unique problems. In much the same way that Palestinian nationalism is completely unique because they too face unique problems. The main tenants are:

        1) The Jewish religion is Judaean culture preserved. That’s why Judaism isn’t quite a religion in the way Christianity and Islam are.

        2) This quasi religion naturally creates friction. Judaism is structurally incompatible with European citizenship because imbedded within the religion is the loyalty of Judaea.

        3) Christians are unable to respect Jews because they are a defeated people. So there can’t be a parity.

        4) Jewish attempts at emancipation within Christian culture are a delusion because of the above.

        5) Therefore Jews must build a nation where they take on all the national characteristics.

        6) In this nation Jews must take on all the roles: farming, blacksmiths, soldiering to become spiritually complete. (i.e. Volkish theology) and become whole to become genuine creators and not parasites on European civilization.

        I’ll stop here since it begins to break into a how. I’ll see what you say. That how involves a theory of labor economics, a theory of folk dance, a theory of recreation of a national language (Hebrew), a theory of press, an attitude that everyone’s ultimate fulfillment is in service to the state…

        Then of course there are complex shading. The Polish and Russian immigrants of the 1920s introduced a lot of latter communist ideology, The contact with America and Britain has allowed Darby’s Christian theology of dispensationalism to become part of Jewish theology and thus messianic Zionism… Labor Zionism, General Zionists, Revisionist Zionism, Religious Zionism and Messianic Zionism all become part of the soup as Israel moves from theory to reality. So you get a layered culture. Sure there is conquest. But the fact that an Israeli gets up in the morning and asks for his toast in Hebrew is Zionism realized as much as a settlement is.

        As an aside a terrific writer on the history of Zionism and how the ideology became realized in Israel is Prime Minister Netanyahu’s father Benzion. If you want to actually know what Zionism is rather than listen to nonsense propaganda his books are a terrific resource to the writers, many of whom still aren’t translated into English.

      • RoHa on January 28, 2015, 6:37 pm

        “The main tenants are”

        They pay rent?

        “3) Christians are unable to respect Jews because they are a defeated people. So there can’t be a parity.”

        That may have been the case in the 19th Century. My own impression is that modern Christians hardly ever think of real Jews as a “people”. They think of them as the guy next door, the the woman who works in the office upstairs, etc., and as such respect them as much as they deserve.

      • Mooser on January 28, 2015, 6:48 pm

        Oh, my, oh my, that is some little essay from “JeffyB”, above.

        And reading after reading the Finklestein interview gives it extra piquancy.

        Love “JeffyB’s stuff on the many-layered “Israeli” culture or religion, or religious culture or something. Well, it’s nice to see some Gentiles blamed for a change.

    • traintosiberia on January 28, 2015, 4:17 am

      Unfortunately that Zionism as ex posited in Bible is no good either . Blood is more than water,more murder that saving lives more grabbing by forces than sharing, more death than birth,more darkness than light,more fear and hate than acceptance and coexistence ,more xenophobic separateness than outreach – that in sum define the attitude and belief of the tribe against the world of the gentile around them

    • talknic on January 28, 2015, 5:35 am

      @ JeffB ” Zionism had a resurgence in the 19th century and met with practical success which has led to further acceptance in the Jewish community. “

      Interesting theory. But I can’t for the life of me think of anything more divisive to the world’s Jewish community than the Zionist led colonization of Palestine.

      Say … can you? I’ll wait ….

      “But even if we exclude the versions that aren’t 150 years old, to equate Zionism which is a total philosophy of being individually (psychologically), morally and collectively (sociologically) for Jews, as nothing more than “territorial expansion, power, and militarism” is simply ridiculous. It shows a writer to be either unbelievably ignorant or having no regard for truth”

      Quite. Simply ridiculous. Maybe that’s why they didn’t use the words you had to add “as nothing more than”</strong. Your pathetic attempt to corrupt what was said shows us you have no regard for truth and that you’re unbelievably stupid in this technological age when one can do a word search of a discussion.

      “What it is, is pure demonization. “

      No pal, it’s you screwing with what was actually said

      • JeffB on January 28, 2015, 7:25 am

        @Talknic

        nteresting theory. But I can’t for the life of me think of anything more divisive to the world’s Jewish community than the Zionist led colonization of Palestine. Say … can you?

        Absolutely I don’t think Israel mostly unites world jewry. I would say the 1950s issue of Conservatives driving during shabbat and how this would break up Jewish neighborhoods was both more divisive at the time and much more divisive in effect. The late 19th century Reform movement to drop kashrut code is more divisive. The conversion issue is likely going to be more divisive unless the religious zionists intervene (which they very well might) as we start getting a few generations out from the orthodox being particularly persnickety so as to make any sort of compromise impossible.
        ___

        As for the rest of your comment Susan most certainly did use the words I quoted. “Zionism, a recent ideology now expressed in territorial expansion, power, and militarism” which is ridiculous. Zionism is now expressed in the day to day lives of the Jewish people of Israel. They wake to greet one another in Hebrew in an apartment built by Jewish builders to eat a breakfast made by Jews all guided by a law that grants Jews full equality. That is the primary expression of Zionism that exists today. Territorial expansion, power, and militarism certainly exists as part of it, but it is not the sole nor even the primary expression.

      • talknic on January 28, 2015, 5:21 pm

        @ JeffB ” I don’t think Israel mostly unites world jewry.”

        Oh? Zionism’s “resurgence in the 19th century” was based on having a separate state the Zionist Federation demanded and got, Israel. From it’s beginnings it divided the Jewish community

        “I would say the 1950s issue of Conservatives driving during shabbat etc etc etc”

        Any of it result in Jewish folk being called a self hating Jew or being accused of Antisemitism?

        ” Susan most certainly did use the words I quoted”

        But not the additional qualifier you had to use

        “Zionism is now expressed in the day to day lives of the Jewish people of Israel”

        The Jewish people of Israel are not the entire Jewish community. BTW hundreds of thousands of the Jewish people of Israel are illegally living in non-Israeli territory that has never been legally acquired by the Zionist Movement‘s state.

        “They wake to greet one another in Hebrew in an apartment built by Jewish builders”

        Hundreds of thousands in non-Israeli territory, illegally acquired by war http://wp.me/pDB7k-Xk, in dwellings built with non-Israeli resources and cheap Palestinian labour, without which they would not be affordable.

        ” to eat a breakfast made by Jews all guided by a law that grants Jews full equality”

        but not to all Israelis

        “That is the primary expression of Zionism that exists today”

        Uh huh. See my notes above

        “Territorial expansion, power, and militarism certainly exists as part of it, but it is not the sole nor even the primary expression”

        Since the founding of the Zionist Federation, the main drive and financiers behind having a Jewish state, territorial acquisition AND expansionism, power and militarism have usurped your utopian fantasy

  11. seafoid on January 27, 2015, 4:25 pm

    So if you despise the blowing up of families and the selection and murder of Hebrew speakers and the existence of a middle class in Gaza you are a Jew hater ?
    Why would Jews want to be associated with any of the above ?

    Isn’t this sort of stuff more like it ?

    • Mooser on January 28, 2015, 10:46 am

      I really feel the “Ballad of Sit Green baum” would be much more apropos in this situation:

      Said he, “Forsooth
      ‘Tis a sorry plight
      That engendered my attitude bluish”
      Said he, “I don’t wanna be a knight
      That’s no job for a boy who is Jewish”

      All day with the mighty sword
      And the mighty steed and the mighty lance
      All day with that heavy shield
      And a pair of aluminum pants

      All day with the slaying and slewing
      And smiting and smoting like Robin Hood
      Oh, wouldst I could kick the habit
      And give up smoting for good”

      As for me, I will not don the aluminum pants! And like a pacific polo-player, vibraharpist or tympanist, go through life with mallets toward none. Nor will I throw ducks at people!

      • seafoid on January 28, 2015, 12:57 pm

        He was a real genius, wasn’t he? Such a pity he died so young.

  12. seafoid on January 27, 2015, 4:26 pm

    Weinthal’s goatee doesn’t fool anyone about his baldness

  13. JWalters on January 27, 2015, 6:44 pm

    “Zionism as a national political movement was a nineteenth century response to European anti-Semitism”

    Historical facts show the opposite is true. Zionism was established to disrupt the ongoing and successful ASSIMILATION of Jews into their Western European countries, and to promote the ethnic segregation favored by extremist Eastern European Jews. That was why the Zionists collaborated with the Nazis prior to WWII.
    http://t.co/Z7xhvfJgnC

  14. on January 28, 2015, 12:12 am

    “They are not fools. They are extremely intelligent liars who welcome danger to Jews because it vindicates their ideology”

    Well said – this is the whole thing in a nutshell. Perfect. It is simply false propaganda to say that antizionism and antisemitism are the same. It is a way to amplify the occurrence of antisemitism by including any criticism of Israel and defining this as antisemitism. It is totally legitimate and is not antisemitism to loathe the behavior of the Israeli government. The other reason for this conflation of antizionism and antisemitism is to make both punishable by law or suppress any criticism of Israel by intimidating the critic with the slur of antisemitism.

    • Mooser on January 28, 2015, 10:49 am

      ” it vindicates their ideology”

      The ideology is secondary, and contingent upon self-interest. You know, the chance to get a guge amount of land, and 2 captive peoples at bargain rates. Anybody who wants to can find an ideology which embraces that.

  15. Kay24 on January 28, 2015, 12:12 am

    He is obviously doing the work of the zionists, and trying to make the world less critical of Israel.

    Next will come the Anti-zionism is Anti Semitism claims. What we are seeing is the gradual silencing of the world when it comes to criticism of Israel, and linking it to anti semitism. There is no other way to make the world shut up. Israel’s crimes are getting too much of attention these days.

    • Marnie on January 28, 2015, 2:52 pm

      The talkback on +972 is that anti-zionism is anti-semitism in disguise. In other words if you criticize ANYTHING AT ALL that is done by Israel, you’re antisemitic pretending to be anti-zionist because they are one in the same. If you criticize one Jew, you are criticizing them all, because they are one organism (apparently), all the same, all stuck together, think exactly alike, etc., and if you spit on one you’re spitting on all. How’s that for ensuring no criticism of any little thing without getting plastered with the antisemite libel?

      • Kay24 on January 28, 2015, 8:29 pm

        That is quite a cunning plan, however, I think mostly prevalent in the US and maybe western nations. Elsewhere in the world this weird connection does not hold, perhaps because Israel makes sure the sucker nations that keep aiding them, must keep the criticism down, and it also helps to have the media act like your slaves. I guess the lobbies are also not strong in other nations.

  16. traintosiberia on January 28, 2015, 4:11 am

    Question should be -Are Jewish safe in this planet.
    The way the arrow is being repeatedly deflected ,chances are the word Antisemitism very soon will become a hackneyed worn out dirty cloth that people won’t react to unless paired with a condescending smirk .

  17. mijj on January 28, 2015, 7:30 am

    “Anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism are one and the same’ – is a profoundly anti-semitic statement.

  18. fayez chergui on January 28, 2015, 8:14 am

    Well, let’s be logic : a jewish state is a non sens.

  19. watzal on January 28, 2015, 8:52 am

    Benjamin Weinthal’s writings have to be repudiated wherever they are published. He is not a journalist but a right-wing Zionist agitator. He works as the German correspondent for the right-wing paper “Jerusalem Post”. His articles on “anti-Semitism” in Germany mediate Israeli readers a totally distorted picture of reality in Germany. I know his scribblings straight from the horse’s mouth. He led a smear campaign by the right-wing paper “Die Welt” against me without presenting one evidence. It was all bullshit.

    That he writes “Anti-Zionism and Anti-Semitism are one and the same” is now surprise to anyone who is familiar with the Zionist Hasbara. That his article is co-authored by a fellow of Daniel Pipes’s notorious Middle East Forum speaks for itself. The late Israel Shahak told me in an interview that Zionism and Anti-Semitism are two sides of the same coin. The racist ideology of Zionism needs for its permanent colonization of Palestine the scapegoat of ant-Semitism. Already the founder of Zionism, Theodor Herzl, wrote in his Diary: “The anti-Semites will become our most dependable friends, the anti-Semitic countries our allies.” The readers of the “Philadelphia Inquirer” should protest in huge numbers against such a trash.

    Dr. Ludwig Watzal, Germany.

  20. JeffB on January 28, 2015, 10:17 am

    @Roha

    Do you think that, if asked, those poor, suffering, Jews through those 1900 years would say, “Oh, right. Some Jews in the far future will be able to persecute a bunch of Arabs. That makes everything all right, then.” and, thus encouraged, carry on with their persecuted lives?

    The promise for religious Jews was that at sometime in the future God would redeem his people and allow them to return to Zion where they once again would be able to reestablish the Judaea and live among the nations as equals. That promise is fulfilled in Israel. It isn’t about persecuting Arabs, it is about establish a state for the remnants of the nation of Judaea. Whether they made the right choice or not to hold on as long as they did I can’t say. What I can say is what they were holding on for is Israel.

    • Walker on January 28, 2015, 2:01 pm

      JeffB, in reality Zionism isn’t simply saying that Jews deserve a land. It’s saying that they deserve the land more than the people who already live there. That is unacceptable. You somehow forgot to include that basic twist in any of your lengthy disquisitions.

      BTW, I’m unable to respond to your post above, but do you really believe this:

      Christians are unable to respect Jews because they are a defeated people. So there can’t be a parity.

      Is that your personal experience?

      • JeffB on January 28, 2015, 3:43 pm

        @Walker

        JeffB, in reality Zionism isn’t simply saying that Jews deserve a land. It’s saying that they deserve the land more than the people who already live there

        That’s not considering Zionism on its own terms. My discourse was on Zionism not a critique of Zionism. Moreover it was specifically trying to say that their are parts to Zionism, like Hebrew language renewal and Folk Dancing which have nothing to do with Palestinians or the fight to control the land. That was the central point. The saying that Zionism is all about militarism is simply dishonest demonization.

        Now certainly militarism plays a role and that’s semi-fair critique of what is obviously implied. It is not like Zionism wanted to establish a Jewish homeland in Antartica or the Sahara. Humans move into habitable zones pretty quickly. For Jews to establish a state in the near term they were either going to have to choose a truly miserable piece of real estate or they were going to have to do it somewhere that was inhabited. Once you say they are going to be sovereign they either needed to replace the existing population, incorporate the existing population, establish permanent rule over the existing population… I’m not sure that Zionism ever really choose between those objectives but it certainly was aware of what the choices would be.

        Christians are unable to respect Jews because they are a defeated people. So there can’t be a parity.

        Is that your personal experience?

        Yes. I think the whole argument over Israel is fundamentally profound disrespect. Substitute Paris for Jerusalem, Marseille for Tel Aviv, French for Jews and take any anti-Israeli screed. No one would even treat that like a sane opinion.

        Let me start with a disclaimer. I thankfully live in a country where dispensationalism is a mainstream belief during a time period where most anti-Semitism is pretty rare. I’ve certainly experienced it, but less than the generation before me and them less than the generation before them and … Classic rightwing anti-Semitism exists but it is exceptional but it exists. For example my girlfriend during college’s father was truly disappointed that his daughter would get engaged to a Jew (we never got married). For him, the idea of a Jewish coworker was OK, the idea of 1/2 Jewish grandchildren was repulsive. So yes I have seen it as part of my life. But it hasn’t done me much harm.

        That being said, it is quite possible that the American assimilation model is successful and is a solution to anti-Semitism that also works. The question was not “are all Zionism’s claims true” but rather what I was addressing is “what are Zionism’s claims”. If I had to bet I I don’t think the American model would have worked forever without Israel. I think the problem is the New Testament (though there is a fix there) and thus anti-semitism is cyclic in nature among Christians forever. Jews in large numbers need to get out of Christian society.

        Since the mid 1990s leftwing anti-Semitism has gotten much stronger. The idea that Western European countries would be having regular anti-Jewish marches again just after living memory of the holocaust is surprising to me. And I get that you want to argue that this particular variety of anti-Jewish march isn’t really an anti-Jewish march because it doesn’t meet some very narrow definition that most anti-Jewish activity over the last 1900 years would have have failed. But you are asking about my opinion. When I see the elected mayor in a Swedish city excuse anti-Jewish violence in his city because after all the Jews hadn’t done enough to distance themselves from Israel, I know damn well he wouldn’t tolerate that if “real Swedes” were being shot because someone disagreed with them on a foreign policy issue. And I know that the Swedes know that too and elect him anyway, or even more likely because of it. That is profound disrespect.

        America is good to Jews. But just pick the next generation. My daughter is most likely going to be going to a college with an active BDS movement and her Jewish identity is going to be attacked regularly, repeatedly. She like my father and unlike me is going to have to deal with institutionally supported Jew hatred. Certainly she needs to avoid middle east studies or ASA unless she is prepared to deal with what I see here, but in a situation where she is at least partially vulnerable. And I don’t think she should have to be in fear in college. I am angry that I have to teach her this crap not as a historical anecdote but a real life skill.

        The core idea of BDS is to totally destroy a country because Jews are unlike other people permanently morally unfit for self determination. This is becoming a mainstream position that is acceptable in polite company. It was acceptable in the 1940s, and I consider it pretty bad that it is coming back. Yes I consider that to be profound disrespect. What else should I consider it?

      • Mooser on January 28, 2015, 7:24 pm

        ” For example my girlfriend during college’s father was truly disappointed that his daughter would get engaged to a Jew (we never got married)”

        You just keep telling yourself that, “JeffyB” if it makes you feel better, and never lose an opportunity to slander her and her family. I’m sure you were the perfect suitor.

      • Mooser on January 28, 2015, 7:55 pm

        “But just pick the next generation. My daughter is most likely going to be going to a college with an active BDS movement and her Jewish identity is going to be attacked regularly, repeatedly.”

        Oh, that’s nothing, “JeffyB” I get the Jehovah’s Witnesses (usually some very nice people) come by three times a year, and I’m still holding fast to the faith! And take comfort, “JeffyB” remember, according to Jewish law the sex of the mother determines the religion of the child! So you got nothing to worry about.

      • oldgeezer on January 29, 2015, 12:04 am

        I truly feel sorry for you jeff. You’ve gone through life with a victim mindset. No matter what the issue you have no agency but are the victim of malign forces which are beyond the pale. You also have no sense of your own identity although you feel you do.

        Your daughter is going to uni next year. Her Jewish identity won’t be attacked. There isn’t a single Jewish target on the BDS list. There are some Israeli targets but larely they are multinationals with no ethnic or religious identity.

        Mostly I’m sorry that despite the length of time your daughter has been around apparently you still haven’t managed to get over you childhood sweetheart issues.

        I doubt you religion had much to do with the ultimate outcome though. If it wasn’t your callous and self centered personality it likely was your childish nature to not accept responsibility for yourself.

    • talknic on January 28, 2015, 6:45 pm

      @ JeffB “The promise for religious Jews was that at sometime in the future God would redeem his people and allow them to return to Zion where they once again would be able to reestablish the Judaea and live among the nations as equals. That promise is fulfilled in Israel.”

      Cute, but the great sky fairy story wasn’t the Zionist Federation’s motivation for colonizing Palestine. (Read Herzl). Nor do the sky fairy’s promises carry any legal weight, especially when the proclaimed Jewish state exceeds its proclaimed boundaries and continues to illegally acquire other folks territories, slaughtering, dispossessing them and even its own citizens in the process.

      ” It isn’t about persecuting Arabs, it is about establish a state for the remnants of the nation of Judaea “

      That state was established May 15th 1948 “proclaimed as an independent republic within frontiers approved by the General Assembly of the United Nations in its Resolution of November 29, 1947 http://www.trumanlibrary.org/whistlestop/study_collections/israel/large/documents/newPDF/49.pdf It’s establishment persecuted non-Jewish Arabs and its laws today continue to persecute them

      “Whether they made the right choice or not to hold on as long as they did I can’t say. What I can say is what they were holding on for is Israel. “

      It’s nonsense. There was a 2,000 year or so period where Jewish folk could have returned to anywhere in the Jewish People’s historic homeland, acquired legitimate citizenship, bought land and settled. Few bothered. Not even Herzl.

      • JeffB on January 28, 2015, 7:04 pm

        @Talknic

        It’s nonsense. There was a 2,000 year or so period where Jewish folk could have returned to anywhere in the Jewish People’s historic homeland, acquired legitimate citizenship, bought land and settled. Few bothered. Not even Herzl.

        You really should learn some history. After Bar Kochba Hadron wanted to erase any remaining trace (and there wasn’t much left) of Jews from historic Judaea. Jews entering Aelia Capitolina were killed. That policy continued under the Byzantines who allowed Jews into the city on the 9th of Av only. The Muslims wiped out most of the Jewish population when they conquered Judaea… Crusaders similarly. Sure there were times that Jews could and did try to establish themselves. By the mid 19th century they were 1/2 the population of Jerusalem.

        Most of those cultures didn’t even have a concept that Jews could be citizens under any circumstances. But no they couldn’t return whenever they wanted and acquired citizenship. That is simply false.

        You need to stop reading BDS propaganda which grossly oversimplifies the history.

      • talknic on January 28, 2015, 11:26 pm

        @ JeffB What is it you didn’t understand about “a 2,000 year or so period”?

        “Sure there were times that Jews could and did try to establish themselves. By the mid 19th century they were 1/2 the population of Jerusalem.

        Most of those cultures didn’t even have a concept that Jews could be citizens under any circumstances. But no they couldn’t return whenever they wanted and acquired citizenship. That is simply false”

        You confirm and deny in the same post. AMAZING!!

        Fact is, for the majority of that 2,000 years or so, Jewish folk could immigrate to anywhere within the Jewish People’s historical homeland and gain legitimate citizenship and buy land and settle

        You need to stop reading BDS propaganda which grossly oversimplifies the history”

        Uh? I haven’t cited any BDS anything JeffBoy. I do tho read and cite Jewish Agency’s official statements and official statements by the Israeli Government, not much of which is allowed to appear in WikI/Pedia’s written by consensus second and third hand opinion pages and almost none of which is available thru Israel’s education system or thru the Israeli Government, because it’s simply too self incriminating.

      • gamal on January 29, 2015, 5:41 am

        “The Muslims wiped out most of the Jews” eh?

        Moshe Gil would like to see you after class, page 50, I recommend reading it all or at least all of the free read available as i say page 50 is interesting also 62, who was it in that commentary to psalm 30 who called Umar a lover of Israel or some such Salmon ibni Yeruhim , i had to check, ” By the mercy of the God of Israel the kingdom of Ishmael was victorious and Israel was permitted to come and live (in Jerusalem)” i am a poor scholar cant remember anything. page 69 may worry some, apparently. anyway enjoy Gil’s history of “Palestine 634-1099”

        Gil is Israeli and unlikely to be an Arab one, so you can trust him, not hardly leftist either, by my reckoning.

        http://books.google.ie/books?id=M0wUKoMJeccC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

    • RoHa on January 28, 2015, 9:12 pm

      “What I can say is what they were holding on for is Israel”

      So the whole point of Judaism, of all that 1900 years persecution, self-segregation, insulting the neighbours, nit-picking over tiny details of the Law, boring Kosher food, etc., etc., was just to produce a nasty little state like Israel?

      That is a really depressing.

      • jon s on January 29, 2015, 4:29 pm

        Gamal , Prof. Gil , from whom it was my privilege to learn , passed away last year. May he rest in peace.

      • gamal on January 29, 2015, 5:07 pm

        I didnt realize Gil had died Jon, he was a great writer and scholar whose works i have always enjoyed, may he rest in peace indeed, he will be sadly missed in this quarter.

    • Marnie on January 29, 2015, 1:07 am

      All I get from your voluminous comments is that you’re a professional victim. You, Yonah, Hophmi and a few random others are heavily invested in the Jews as victims (past tense), Jews as victims (present tense) and Jews as victims (future tense).

      • JeffB on January 29, 2015, 7:30 am

        @Marnie

        All I get from your voluminous comments is that you’re a professional victim.

        Really? “ I thankfully live in a country where dispensationalism is a mainstream belief during a time period where most anti-Semitism is pretty rare. I’ve certainly experienced it, but less than the generation before me and them less than the generation before them” is not a statement of victimization. But I get that you think personal insults are arguments. After all this whole shtick is about proving to everyone your moral superiority.

        So given you see in comment what you want to see not what’s written. Let me just point out, you are on a board where you spend all day whining that choices make 100 years ago, long before you were born, didn’t turn out the way you like. The people doing it far from being victims have become masters of their own destiny. The people most resistant and least in control of their own fate are you who choose to identify with and thereby are able to express their victimhood.

        I ain’t even the kettle Ms. Pot.

      • Marnie on January 29, 2015, 2:27 pm

        I spend too many hours on my job working, not so many here “whining”. I’m not interested in arguing with anyone here, at all. You are a “master” of your own destiny? The zionist ideology is about being the master of the destiny of “the other” and that’s what pisses me and a whole lotta other pots and pans off. Later –

      • talknic on January 29, 2015, 8:00 pm

        @ JeffB “So given you see in comment what you want to see not what’s written. Let me just point out …”

        Let me just point out JeffB “The core idea of BDS is to totally destroy a country because Jews are unlike other people permanently morally unfit for self determination.”“You need to stop reading BDS propaganda which grossly oversimplifies the history. “” in the BDS world the Jews of Israel get to be slaughtered in Arab concentration camps rather than die during battle “ … + Heaps more

        I’m sure other readers will get my drift even if you don’t JeffB oy Keep up the good work!

  21. DavidDaoud on January 28, 2015, 10:22 am

    From 3rd paragraph:
    “Zionism as a national political movement was a nineteenth century response to European anti-Semitism by advocating a Jewish homeland in Israel.”

    Susan, please allow me to point out a slight error. The last word should read “Palestine”.

    • steven l on January 28, 2015, 11:58 am

      Zionism really started the day the Romans expelled the Jews from their homeland. What does: “Next year to Jerusalem” means?

      • Mooser on January 28, 2015, 7:00 pm

        “Next year to Jerusalem” means?”

        Not a whole lot, really, it’s just a saying. Why, are you going to say that little shibboleth places a command and obligation on every Jewish person? Don’t be ridiculous.

  22. steven l on January 28, 2015, 11:56 am

    I participate to a number of blogs and i have to say that they for the majority expose nicely the ignorance and biases of the majority of authors and responders, including myself. I am a simple human. It takes a lot of time to search and find honest information. Objectivity does not exist.

    • Mooser on January 28, 2015, 7:31 pm

      ” Objectivity does not exist.”

      Sure, objectivity don’t exist, and Israel is really inside the territory it declared for itself, and the Palestinians appeared suddenly out of nowhere about 70 years ago, and there are no Zionist settlement in lands out side of Israel, and Israel didn’t kill, oh 16,000 to 20,000 people in Lebanon, it’s all just a subjective chimera.

  23. wondering jew on January 28, 2015, 1:42 pm

    Zionism in 2015 implies satisfaction or at least acceptance of the Nakba of 1948. As such anti Zionism can be specific to rejection of the Nakba or of that satisfaction or of that acceptance and as such is not antiSemitic.

    Because i felt like participating in some discussion about Hannah Arendt a few weeks ago, i commented without having read enough of her magnum opus: eichmann in jerusalem and was called out on my illiteracy and thus shamed i have been delving into her book and briefly skimmed the book eichmann before jerusalem by stangneth. i was struck by the pro Arab position taken by the post WWII Nazis. I realize that the conclusions one takes from this support should not be absolute, but i would insist that a level headed view of zionism should have an analysis of the last 140 years of history prepared to deal with the roots of zionism. such level headed seriousness is really not found around here and to pretend that it is found around here is silliness.

    • annie on January 28, 2015, 2:01 pm

      Zionism in 2015 implies satisfaction or at least acceptance of the Nakba of 1948.

      what’s your definition of “acceptance”? i don’t know what you mean. zionism is a political construct therefore it doesn’t experience “satisfaction” or “accept” ideas. as a system it imposes, it informs, it occupies. do you mean “zionists”? zionism doesn’t “imply”.

      surely you don’t mean if a person believes joan peter’s version of history they are therefore not a zionist. do you mean nakba deniers are not zionists, because we all know that’s not true.

    • annie on January 28, 2015, 2:11 pm

      i commented without having read enough of her magnum opus: eichmann in jerusalem and was called out on my illiteracy and thus shamed i have been delving into her book and briefly skimmed the book eichmann before jerusalem by stangneth. – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2015/01/inquirer-publishes-semitism/comment-page-1#comment-742101

      i doubt if you were called out on your illiteracy and thus shamed because you had been delving into her book and briefly skimmed the book eichmann before jerusalem by stangneth. you were probably shamed because you made some ridiculous determination/conclusion and tried attributing it to ardent or strangneth, or something. you’re frequently making these uninformed conclusions based on, what appears to be, an attempt to blame or inflame.

      i would insist that a level headed view of zionism should have an analysis of the last 140 years of history prepared to deal with the roots of zionism.

      and do you plan on insisting this of yourself too?

      such level headed seriousness is really not found around here and to pretend that it is found around here is silliness.

      is this a self critique? are you admitting something, confessing you’ve been silly, letting us know why you’re planning on taking a hiatus from posting, some sabbatical to gain an analysis of the last 140 years of history to prepared to deal with the roots of zionism?

      do tell.

    • seafoid on January 28, 2015, 2:31 pm

      Yonah

      The roots of Zionism are one thing but the flowers are putrid.
      the Nazis did awful things but why is Israel so cruel and heedless?
      And what the Palestinians do to deserve you ?

    • Mooser on January 28, 2015, 7:03 pm

      “and to pretend that it is found around here is silliness.”

      Okay, too bad, sorry you were disappointed. Maybe you can guide the management on to a better path.
      But please, Yonah, whatever you do, don’t go away mad!

    • Mooser on January 28, 2015, 7:13 pm

      “i was struck by the pro Arab position taken by the post WWII Nazis “

      I get it, Yonah, because of that, anybody who even hints at justice for Palestinians, or (G-d forbid) an accounting from Israel must be a Nazi. Of course!
      And we all know how powerful the “post WW2 Nazis” are.

      “prepared to deal with the roots of zionism.”, No you don’t Yonah. To use an expression which may not apply to you, you don’t want to know how the sausage is made.

    • Marnie on January 29, 2015, 5:29 am

      You might consider a thorough opthalmologic examination. You see antisemitism everywhere and for starters, this has totally distorted your visual field.

      “but i would insist that a level headed view of zionism should have an analysis of the last 140 years of history prepared to deal with the roots of zionism”. You would insist? You’re a pretty funny guy for not having a sense of humor and you can insist until you turn blue and white, Mr. Bossy Pants.

  24. annie on January 28, 2015, 1:55 pm

    First, hatred of Israel can no longer be separated from loathing of Jews

    i’m always amused by the way israel propagandists get off on attributing emotions like “hatred” and “loathing” to their adversaries, yet rarely ever (that i can recall) attribute it to themselves.

    i swear, if they could get away with stating the opposition was frothing at the mouth it would probably give them a hard on excite them.

    • Mooser on January 28, 2015, 7:40 pm

      “First, hatred of Israel can no longer be separated from loathing of Jews”

      And I can see from that just how much they fear, dread, that “loathing of Jews”. Funny how that’s always where they want to bring it, it must where they feel they can control the discourse and prevail. What disgusting hypocrisy, and what a stupid game to play.

  25. JeffB on January 28, 2015, 6:08 pm

    @Talknic

    Any of it [1950s Conservative rulings] result in Jewish folk being called a self hating Jew or being accused of Antisemitism?

    No. You were talking about divisions. There isn’t a division today in the Jewish community regarding Israel. The Jewish community is relatively united. JVP type Jews are too small a faction to constitute a division. Sorry.

    The Jewish people of Israel are not the entire Jewish community. BTW hundreds of thousands of the Jewish people of Israel are illegally living in non-Israeli territory that has never been legally acquired by the Zionist Movement‘s state.

    And that’s why the majority of Jews would consider you an anti-Semite. When I talk about breakfast in Israel you want to make it about “illegal territory”. The idea of discussing anything positive about Israel horrifies you. Israel is a complex society. It is engaged in more than pushing the Palestinians off territory. The fact that you can’t see it is a problem.

    Israel is a real country not imaginary place filled with demons.
    Israelis are real people who lead real lives. They aren’t characters in your morality play.

    • Mooser on January 28, 2015, 7:43 pm

      Shorter “JeffyB”: ‘If you people would just stop talking about it, we could defraud the Jewish people and victimize the Palestinians in peace, oh, and we need more money.’

    • Mooser on January 28, 2015, 7:58 pm

      ” There isn’t a division today in the Jewish community regarding Israel.”

      .” Israel is a complex society.”

      Ah, the topsy-turvy world of “JeffyB”.

      • eljay on January 28, 2015, 8:22 pm

        >> Mooser: Ah, the topsy-turvy world of “JeffyB”.

        Yup.

        >> JeffBeee: There isn’t a division today in the Jewish community regarding Israel. The Jewish community is relatively united. JVP type Jews are too small a faction to constitute a division.

        Hmmm…so:
        – the community is “relatively united” (which means it is also somewhat divided); and
        – “factions” exist (faction: a small, organized, dissenting group within a larger one); but
        – there’s no division (division: separation by difference of opinion or feeling; disagreement; dissension).

        Interesting.

        >> Israel is a real country …

        Of course it’s a real country, and it should continue to exist – within its / Partition borders – as a secular and democratic state of and for all its Israeli citizens, immigrants, ex-pats and refugees, equally.

        “Jewish State”, however, is not a real country: It’s a religion-supremacist construct and, like all supremacist constructs, it has no right to exist.

    • talknic on January 29, 2015, 5:33 am

      @ JeffB “There isn’t a division today in the Jewish community regarding Israel. “

      Oh. OK

      “The Jewish community is relatively united”

      “relatively” Oh. OK

      “JVP type Jews are too small a faction to constitute a division”

      Oh. OK, a division is not a division.

      // The Jewish people of Israel are not the entire Jewish community. BTW hundreds of thousands of the Jewish people of Israel are illegally living in non-Israeli territory that has never been legally acquired by the Zionist Movement‘s state.//

      “And that’s why the majority of Jews would consider you an anti-Semite.”

      Care to point out where I have expressed hatred of Jews and/or what is Antisemitic or untrue in my statement. Thx … I’ll wait…

      ” When I talk about breakfast in Israel you want to make it about “illegal territory” “

      Israelis in about one third of the territory Israel illegally claims as its own think they’re having breakfast in Israel, when in fact they aren’t. They should be informed, not deceived by their Government. Mis-informed as they are, they have no chance to understand why there is no peace for the Jewish State. They have no chance to understand why there are no UNSC resolutions against any Arab state for having invaded Israeli territory or why the UN is in fact not biased towards Israel, but has in fact given it hundreds of opportunities to adhere to the law, each one squandered in preference for illegal expansionism.

      “The idea of discussing anything positive about Israel horrifies you”

      Whatever fantasies you need to have pal. An Israel NOT in breach of the law would be positive. An Israel NOT occupying other folks territory and at peace would be positive. An Israel that did not keep lying to its citizens, itself and the rest of the world would be positive. There isn’t anything positive about Israel to discuss in respect to the I/P conflict.

      “Israel is a complex society. It is engaged in more than pushing the Palestinians off territory. The fact that you can’t see it is a problem”

      Your ‘fact’ is a fabrication and what it falsely alleges is insignificant compared to the real “problem” of Israel having had military forces in occupation of other folk’s territories for 67 years while illegally claiming territory acquired by war as its own and illegally settling Israeli citizens in it.

      “Israel is a real country not imaginary place filled with demons.
      Israelis are real people who lead real lives. They aren’t characters in your morality play.”

      Do tell. WOW! Now if it would only adhere to its legal obligations and its actual borders for once.

    • pjdude on February 1, 2015, 3:07 pm

      maybe thats because the zionists like your self refuse to allow dissent? Israel is not a complicated society. militeristic cultures never are. is simplistic. what ever “good” they may do is irrelevant. when it requires evil to be done.

  26. James Canning on January 28, 2015, 6:24 pm

    Fanatical Zionists are “anti-Jewish”. Full stop.

  27. JeffB on January 28, 2015, 11:50 pm

    @Talknic

    Fact is, for the majority of that 2,000 years or so, Jewish folk could immigrate to anywhere within the Jewish People’s historical homeland and gain legitimate citizenship and buy land and settle

    I’m going to try this one more time and then just conclude you are deliberately lying rather than being obtuse.

    1186 all the Jews in Jerusalem would have been killed.
    1187 Jews have freedom to live in Jerusalem. They are residents not citizens.

    So that’s less than 1/2 right there.

    Under the Mamluks (approx 1250) citizenship was racial and no Jews were the right breeding. So the policy continues.
    The in 1517 you have the Ottomans. They offer Jews autonomy and residency but not “citizenship”. Jews were not Muslims and thus could never have legal equality in Ottoman society though it was better than most.

    You start having the first major Arab attacks against Jews in the 1880s. British take over in 1914. 1920 you have the British imposing heavy quotas on Jews migrating.

    So where is this majority of the years where the Jews could move in with citizenship freely and settle? I see 5 years during the whole period where anything like free migration with citizenship prior to the Israeli conquest. The reality is if Jews wanted to move to Palestine as citizens they had to kill people to do it.

    You want to present some counter evidence then present the years where you get a majority. Otherwise cut the nonsense.

    • pjdude on February 1, 2015, 3:24 pm

      well except for the fact your flat out lying about if jews could immigrate. i noticed you like to skip over large parts of history, like the sassianid empire. secondly the concept of citizenship really didn’t exist at all so trying to use that as an argument is just try to play games of anchronism. you. and the arabs only starting attacking jews in the late 1800’s because of zionists like your self saying they intended to take over and dominate everyone else. you can’t declare hositility against others and expect them to treat as if your peaceful. the only reason you got 5 years is your a dishonest hack you manipulated history. jews were free to move to palestine for most of 2000 years and chose not to. no matter how much you lie nothing can change that fact

      • JeffB on February 1, 2015, 4:20 pm

        @pjdude

        well except for the fact your flat out lying about if jews could immigrate. i noticed you like to skip over large parts of history, like the sassianid empire.

        I think you might want to check your sources. The Sasanian’s held Judea / Palestine for at most a few decades and even then their control was limited. They aren’t a large part of the history of Palestine just one of the phases of the Muslim conquest. Certainly they are important for the history of Iran but that wasn’t the issue we were discussing.

        http://online.sfsu.edu/mroozbeh/Maps/Map-sasanian%20empire.jpg

        secondly the concept of citizenship really didn’t exist at all so trying to use that as an argument is just try to play games of anchronism.

        I’m not the one who made the claim, talknic did. I agree the premise is stupid but he made the claim.

        and the arabs only starting attacking jews in the late 1800’s because of zionists like your self saying they intended to take over and dominate everyone else

        Really? So you are saying I can’t find examples of Arab on Jewish attacks.
        So the Baghdad massacre of 1828 was Zionists?
        Meshed 1839 was also Zionists?
        1840 Damascus affair was Zionists?

        Just to pick one decade predating Zionism.

        As for the comments about lying… You simple do not know the facts.

  28. JeffB on January 29, 2015, 7:23 am

    @talknic RoHa and Philemon

    Amazing how you all don’t read each other’s comment’s. Giles’s premise was that if Jews don’t distance themselves from Israelis they are in real danger. One of the dangers was, “I am talking about real danger. As in the world reaching the conclusion it can no longer afford to have Jews around “. The entire discussion was based on Jews outside of Israel having to distance themselves from Israel before they are punished for what Israel is doing.

    It is not based on the other common western BDS fantasy that once Israelis decide to become an Arab state that they all get to live in democracy and prosperity with puppies and kittens for all. You don’t like Giles’ premise take it up with him. But in the meanwhile, learn to read!

    • Philemon on January 29, 2015, 9:42 pm

      No, JeffB. You don’t get it.

      What Giles wrote might scare the bejeezus out of you and assume a disproportionate importance in your warped mind, but the rest of us can recognize it as a merely academic hypothetical about stupid propaganda if taken to its logical conclusion. So, even though Giles might think in terms of “Danger! Will Robinson! Danger!” other people have their own minds and can come to their own conclusions.

  29. just on January 29, 2015, 9:54 am

    See Krauthammer fearmonger, listen to Krauthammer lie:

    “Krauthammer: Let’s understand, this resurgence of anti-Semitism in Europe — eventually the Jews will leave. The pressure of the anti-Semitism will become very intolerable. It’ll be empty of Jews ultimately. But the threat to Jewish life, the threat to the endurance of Jews as a people is not from Europe. That deed is done. The Holocaust happened. European Jews were wiped out. The threat today, and it is a real threat, it’s a recurrence of a threat is from its enemies in the Middle East.

    Israel is now for the first time since Jesus is not just the only Jewish state on the planet, it’s the largest community of Jews on the planet anywhere. And it is now threatened by a regime in iran that openly says it wants to eradicate it. What it took Hitler to do seven years can now be done in seven hours in one day with nuclear weapons and we are talking as if we’re ready to live with an Iranian state that has that, and that, I think, is the threat, the new Auschwitz that the Jews as a people are looking at. ”

    http://www.haaretz.com/video/1.639744?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    • a blah chick on January 29, 2015, 10:18 am

      If the Iranians are so dead set against Jews why are there tens of thousands of them in Iran today? And what about that monument the government just unveiled honoring Jewish veterans of the recent wars? Those stupid Persians don’t even know how to do genocide right.

      Does anyone actually listen to Kraut the Hammer anymore?

      • JeffB on January 29, 2015, 2:49 pm

        @Blah

        If the Iranians are so dead set against Jews why are there tens of thousands of them in Iran today?

        Sorry you are out of date. The remaining Iranian Jewish population is tiny, under 9k left in 2012 down from 25k in 2009 and down from almost 100k in 1979. So yeah they are doing ethnic cleansing right.

      • Marnie on January 29, 2015, 5:48 pm

        Please excuse this very long post (Persian Jews – Wikipedia) but I found it interesting enough to want to share it.

        “At the time of the 1979 Islamic Revolution, 80,000-100,000 Jews were living in Iran. From then on, Jewish emigration from Iran dramatically increased, as about 20,000 Jews left within several months of the revolution alone.[29] The vast majority of Iran’s Jewish population, some 60,000 Jews, emigrated, of whom 35,000 went to the United States, 20,000 to Israel, and 5,000 to Europe (mainly to the United Kingdom, France, Germany, Italy, and Switzerland).[35]

        Some sources put the Iranian Jewish population in the mid and late 1980s as between 50,000–60,000.[36] An estimate based on the 1986 census put the figure considerably higher for the same time, around 55,000.[37] From the mid-1990s to the present there has been more uniformity in the figures, with most government sources since then estimating roughly 25,000 Jews remaining in Iran.[38][39][40][41][42] However, a 2012 census put the figure at about 69780.[43] These official figures are considered bloated, and the Jewish community may not amount to more than 10,000.[44]

        Ayatollah Khomeini met with the Jewish community upon his return from exile in Paris, when heads of the community, disturbed by the execution of one of their most distinguished representatives, the industrialist Habib Elghanian, arranged to meet him in Qom. At one point he said:-

        “In the holy Quran, Moses, salutations upon him and all his kin, has been mentioned more than any other prophet. Prophet Moses was a mere shepherd when he stood up to the might of pharaoh and destroyed him. Moses, the Speaker-to-Allah, represented pharaoh’s slaves, the downtrodden, the mostazafeen of his time.”

        At the end of the discussion, Khomeini declared that “We recognize our Jews as separate from those godless, bloodsucking Zionists.”[44] and issued a fatwa decreeing that the Jews were to be protected.[45]

        In the Islamic republic, Jews have become more religious. Families who had been secular in the 1970s started adhering to kosher dietary laws and more strictly observed rules against driving on the Shabbat. They stopped going to restaurants, cafes and cinemas and the synagogue became the focal point of their social lives.[46]

        Haroun Yashyaei, a film producer and former chairman of the Central Jewish Community in Iran said, “Khomeini didn’t mix up our community with Israel and Zionism – he saw us as Iranians.”[47]

        In June 2007, though there were reports that wealthy expatriate Jews established a fund to offer incentives to Iranian Jews to emigrate to Israel, few took them up on the offer. The Society of Iranian Jews dismissed this act as “immature political enticements” and said that their national identity was not for sale.[48]

        Jews in the Islamic Republic of Iran are formally to be treated equally and free to practice their religion. There is even a seat in the Iranian parliament reserved for the representative of the Iranian Jews. However, de facto, discrimination is common.[49][50]

        Current status in Iran
        Iran’s Jewish community is officially recognized as a religious minority group by the government, and, like the Zoroastrians, they are allocated one seat in the Iranian Parliament. Siamak Moreh Sedgh is the current Jewish member of the parliament, replacing Maurice Motamed in the 2008 election. In 2000, former Jewish MP Manuchehr Eliasi estimated that at that time there were still 60,000–85,000 Jews in Iran; most other sources put the figure at 25,000.[51] The United States State Department estimated the number of Jews in Iran at 20,000–25,000 as of 2009.[52]

        Today Tehran has 11 functioning synagogues, many of them with Hebrew schools. It has two kosher restaurants, an old-age home and a cemetery. There is a Jewish library with 20,000 titles.[46] Iranian Jews have their own newspaper (called “Ofogh-e-Bina”) with Jewish scholars performing Judaic research at Tehran’s “Central Library of Jewish Association”.[53] The “Dr. Sapir Jewish Hospital” is Iran’s largest charity hospital of any religious minority community in the country;[53] however, most of its patients and staff are Muslim.[54]

        Chief Rabbi Yousef Hamadani Cohen is the present spiritual leader for the Jewish community of Iran.[55] In August 2000, Chief Rabbi Cohen met with Iranian President Mohammad Khatami for the first time.[56] In 2003, Chief Rabbi Cohen and Maurice Motamed met with President Khatami at Yusef Abad Synagogue which was the first time a President of Iran had visited a synagogue since the Islamic Revolution.[57] Haroun Yashayaei is the chairman of the Jewish Committee of Tehran and leader of Iran’s Jewish Community.[57][58] On January 26, 2007, Yashayaei’s letter to President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad concerning his Holocaust denial comments brought about worldwide media attention.[59][60][61]

        The Jews of Iran have been best known for certain occupations like making gold jewelry and antique dealing, textiles and carpets.

        Conditions
        Jews are conscripted into the Iranian army like all Iranian citizens. Many Iranian Jews fought during the Iran-Iraq war (1980–1988) as drafted soldiers, and about 150 were killed.[62]

        Most Iranian Jews say that they view Iran as their home and are allowed to practice Judaism freely.[63]

        Contacts with Jews outside Iran
        Rabbis from the Haredi sect Neturei Karta, which has historically been opposed to the existence of Israel have visited Iran on several occasions.[64][65][66][67] The Jewish Defense Organization, protested against one such visit by members of a Neturei Karta faction after they attended International Conference to Review the Global Vision of the Holocaust in Tehran.

        Maurice Motamed, a former Jewish Iranian parliamentarian states that in recent years, the Iranian government has allowed Jewish Iranians to visit their family members in Israel and that the government has also allowed those Iranians living in Israel to return to Iran for a visit.[68]

        Limited cultural contacts are also allowed, such as the March 2006 Jewish folk dance festival in Russia, in which a female team from Iran participated.[69][70]

        Thirteen Jews have been executed in Iran since the Islamic revolution, most of them for alleged connections to Israel. Among them, one of the most prominent Jews of Iran in the 1970s, Habib Elghanian who was the head of the Iranian Jewish community was executed by a firing squad by the Islamic government shortly after the Islamic Revolution of 1979 on the charge having had contact with Israel, among others. In May 1998, Jewish businessman Ruhollah Kadkhodah-Zadeh was hanged in prison without a public charge or legal proceeding, apparently for assisting Jews to emigrate.[71]

        Iranian Jews are generally allowed to travel to Israel and emigrate abroad, though they must submit passport and visa requests to a special section of the passport office, face restrictions on families leaving en masse, and travels to Israel must be done via a third country. However, the rate of emigration has been low. Between October 2005 and September 2006, 152 Jews left Iran, down from 297 during the same period the previous year, and 183 the year before that. Most of those who left allegedly cited economic and family reasons as their main incentive for leaving. In July 2007, Iran’s Jewish community rejected financial emigration incentives to leave Iran. Offers ranging from 5,000–30,000 British pounds, financed by a wealthy expatriate Jew with the support of the Israeli government, were turned down by Iran’s Jewish leaders.[72][73][74] To place the incentives in perspective, the sums offered were up to 3 times or more than the average annual income for an Iranian.[75] However, in late 2007 at least forty Iranian Jews accepted financial incentives offered by Jewish charities for immigrating to Israel.[76] It has been asserted that the majority of Iranian Jews prefer to stay because they are allowed to live a comfortable Jewish life, though Iranian-American activist Sam Kermanian disputed this claim, stating that the majority of Iranian Jews are elderly and only speak Persian, and as a result are less naturally inclined to emigrate.

        Jewish centers of Iran
        Most Jews live in Tehran, the capital. Traditionally however, Shiraz, Hamedan, Isfahan, Tabriz, Nahawand, Babol and some other cities of Iran were home to large populations of Jews. At present there are 25 synagogues in Iran.

        Jewish education in Iran
        In 1996, there were still three schools in Tehran in which Jews were in a majority, but Jewish principals had been replaced. The school curriculum is Islamic and the Tanakh is taught in Persian, rather than Hebrew. The Ozar Hatorah organization conducts Hebrew lessons on Fridays.

        In principle, but with some exceptions, there is little restriction of or interference with the Jewish religious practice; however, education of Jewish children has become more difficult in recent years. The government reportedly allows Hebrew instruction, recognizing that it is necessary for Jewish religious practice. However, it strongly discourages the distribution of Hebrew texts, in practice making it difficult to teach the language. Moreover, the government has required that several Jewish schools remain open on Saturdays, the Jewish Sabbath, in conformity with the schedule of other schools in the school system. Since certain kinds of work (such as writing or using electrical appliances) on the Sabbath violates Jewish law, this requirement to operate the schools has made it difficult for observant Jews both to attend school and adhere to a fundamental tenet of their religion.

        Jewish sites of Iran
        Almost every city of Iran has a Jewish shrine, or historical site. Prominent among these are Tomb of Esther and Mordechai in Hamadan, tomb of Daniel in Susa, tomb of Hanakkuk in Tuyserkan and the Peighambariyeh mausoleum in Qazvin.

        There is a pilgrimage site near Isfahan (Pir Bakran) dedicated to Serah.

        There are also tombs of several outstanding Jewish scholars in Iran such as Harav Ohr Shraga in Yazd and Hakham Mullah Moshe Halevi (Moshe-Ha-Lavi) in Kashan, which are also visited by Muslim pilgrims.”

  30. JeffB on January 29, 2015, 3:11 pm

    @Gamal

    Moshe Gil in that source has the Jews migrating to Palestine after the conquest. His position is there wasn’t a Jewish population there beforehand because the Byzantines were effective in keeping them out (Michael the Syrian’s position). While you are disagreeing with me on the death, you aren’t disagreeing on the main point that there was little or no continuity of Jewish population between the Byzantine and 7th century Muslim conquest. That Jews couldn’t have settled and lived there in either my of Gil’s versions during Byzantine times and for both of us the Jewish population gets wiped out by the crusaders.

  31. Vera Gottlieb on January 30, 2015, 11:09 am

    The concept of Zionism wasn’t a bad one. It is what extreme fanatics have turned it into. As the quote states…Zionism giving Judaism a bad name.

    • MHughes976 on February 1, 2015, 6:39 pm

      My response to Vera would be that I understand Zionism as the belief that Jewish people and they only have an inherent right, these days commonly called a birthright, to a share of sovereignty over the Holy Land – so that others have a share only by the grace and generosity of the true heirs. I think that this is and always has been a mistaken belief. I oppose it. I think this makes me an anti-Zionist.
      I’ll be happy to work with another definition if anyone cares to suggest one.
      I understand anti-Semitism as prejudice against at least some things that are characteristically Jewish. I consider that anti-Zionism is rational, therefore never in itself an expression of anti-Semitism, in my understanding of that term, or of any kind of prejudice. I object to Israel as a political system not because it is Jewish but because it claims rights for Jewish people in an exclusive form which I consider morally mistaken. I can’t deny that this puts me at variance on a serious moral question with majority Jewish opinion of these days. But moral questions are not to be settled – here I would expect most Jewish people to agree – either by consideration of numbers or by consideration of race.
      Anti-Semitism and Zionism are fully compatible in their logic. One expression of prejudice against Jewish manners and morals would be to say that Jewish people should live with each other, not as a distinct and troubling element in larger societies: therefore any project for maintaining a distinct Jewish polity is good for humanity in general.

      • JeffB on February 2, 2015, 5:41 am

        @MHughes976

        Jewish people and .. only the Jewish people to a share of sovereignty over the Holy Land

        I’d say that’s probably not quite true. Those Jews who believed in a Jewish homeland and not a Jewish state in Palestine were within the Zionist camp. Anti-Zionism or non-Zionism was those Jews who might live in Israel but were OK with their continued residency being a gift from the sovereign i.e. a continuation of the diaspora but with slightly higher immigration to Palestine.

        Today for examples supporters of the 2 state solution, supporters of confederate governments, supporters of binationalism … are all within the Zionism camp. Anti-Zionism is the belief that Jews should have no self determination not the lack of belief that should have complete self-determination. That is most compromised still within Zionism. Now certainly there are Zionists who believe that shared sovereignty of various forms is bunk, but they are the exception. Almost all of Israel’s early founders, every prime minister of Israel and almost all Knesset members have agreed to some limits on Jewish sovereignty.

        Anti-Semitism and Zionism are fully compatible in their logic. One expression of prejudice against Jewish manners and morals would be to say that Jewish people should live with each other, not as a distinct and troubling element in larger societies

        That’s one kind of anti-Semitism. A belief that Jews are a separate nation and in Christian / Muslim / Pagan countries should either stop being Jewish or get out. And you are right that’s a form of anti-Semtism that Zionism often agrees with. Because of Israel many Jews have shifted their opinion on that sort of Queen Isabella style anti-Semitism and don’t object to it as strongly now that they have somewhere to go. Jews in the diaspora are living in their 2nd to last country they need wander to.

        There are other forms of anti-Semitism though that are far more compatible with anti-Zionism rather than Zionism. The core one being the belief that Jews are quasi-demonic creatures in human or knowing servants of evil and as such should be stripped of the rights and status granted other peoples. The belief that Jews are permanently inherently evil. This in its modern form is for example the all powerful AIPAC manipulating both the congress and the media into manipulating the electorate to support positions that the good honest Christian folk of the USA would never otherwise support. Another version in its modern form (and one I think you personally guilty of) is understanding that while Israel was founded like most every other country on the planet via a mass migration displacing a pre-existing indigenous group they should still be subject to permanent punishments those others aren’t because Israeli / Jewish sovereignty would be an inherent evil in a way that Chinese, French or English sovereignty is not.

      • MHughes976 on February 3, 2015, 5:50 pm

        I don’t think that definitions are true or false: that is what descriptions are, or normally are. Definitions are about words not about the world.
        I was giving the definitions under which I classify people like myself as anti-Zionists but not as anti-Semites. No one, as I often say here, is the owner of words and if other definitions are put forward I’m happy to work with them. Under some definitions I will find myself an ‘anti-Semite’, though I would (have to) claim that under those definitions (not under mine) justifiable forms of anti-Semitism exist. Under some definitions I might even find myself a ‘Zionist’, if (say) a Zionist is one who thinks Jewish people should be treated fairly and equally. I noted a few years ago that I was ‘Jewish’ under a definition advanced by Richard Falk, which concerned belief in certain ideals: my Christianity didn’t seem to exclude me. I mightn’t have qualified if living up to those ideals had been an added requirement.

    • eljay on February 1, 2015, 6:56 pm

      >> Vera Gottlieb: The concept of Zionism wasn’t a bad one. It is what extreme fanatics have turned it into.

      According to JewishVirtualLibrary.org:

      The term “Zionism” was coined in 1890 by Nathan Birnbaum. Its general definition means the national movement for the return of the Jewish people to their homeland and the resumption of Jewish sovereignty in the Land of Israel.

      Jewish supremacism in a supremacist “Jewish State” in Palestine, all at the expense of the indigenous population. There’s nothing good – or just or moral – about that concept.

      Extreme fanatics merely took a bad concept and made it – and continue to make it – worse.

Leave a Reply