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Sadness and anger as 4 Jewish victims of Paris attack are buried in Jerusalem

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Around 2,000 mourners gathered on Tuesday for a somber state funeral in Jerusalem’s Givat Shaul neighborhood to lay to rest the four victims of a hostage attack at a Paris kosher grocery store last Friday. The bodies of the deceased were interred in a Jerusalem commemoration after an invitation to host the burial was extended to relatives of the slain by the Israeli Foreign Ministry, which later sought payment from families of $13,000 each for the ceremonies. Economic Minister Naftali Bennett intervened late Tuesday night, lifting the fee.

On the decision to hold the ceremony in Jerusalem where the victims have relatives, instead of Paris, mourners I spoke to expressed tacit support or apathy. Most attended to show support for the relatives of the deceased: Yohan Cohen, Yoav Hattab, Francois-Michel Saada and Phillipe Braham. Some relayed outrage toward the broader Muslim and Arab community. Slain assailant Amedy Coulibaly was of Muslim background and had declared allegiance to the Islamic State and al-Qaeda in a video he made before opening gunfire in the grocery store. Coulibaly alleged that he coordinated his act with Chérif and Saïd Kouachi, the attackers of the satirical Charlie Hebdo magazine, which had drawn the ire of the Muslim community for publishing cartoons mocking the image of the Muslim prophet Mohammed. And yet what media has called a “Muslim hero” emerged from the grocery store attack when Mali-born stockroom worker Lassana Bathily risked his life to hide six shoppers—including a baby—in a walk-in freezer.

“I think it’s the choice of the family,” a 24-year old relative of one of the Paris victims said of the location of the burials in Jerusalem. “I don’t have an opinion about that. If the family wants that and it’s good for them, then it’s a good thing.” She asked that her name and family connection not be published, and she spoke to me while the funeral was in progress. She was unable to participate, “I just can’t,” she said. Instead she sat on a curb just beyond the area designated for the memorial.

The soft-spoken mourner was in shock. “I don’t know, I feel like I don’t have trust in the world because what is…” she said trailing off, concluding, “I don’t understand how you can kill people. I really don’t understand.”

“It sucks. I feel like, maybe I’m naïve, but I don’t—If people just stop taking things in the wrong way because religious people I think—Christians, Muslims, Jews—do not to take their religions to places of hate, because I don’t think religious people want to kill. We are all from God and we need peace and love, you know? I don’t understand it. It’s really hard for me. It’s scary you know,” she continued.

The unnamed relative added that the thousands in attendance, primarily from the French-Israeli community in Jerusalem, were a comfort to her. “It’s really nice that a lot of people came that are not related, but they came united,” she said.

paris.funeral.02Israeli-born French national Kim Harroch, 18, from Jerusalem arrived at the funeral with a group of friends, all of French background. “The funeral in Israel” was appropriate, she said, “because in France the Arabs killed them and so they are entombed here because of security.” She also felt that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was correct when he called on French Jews to give up life in their home country and immigrate to Israel. Those remarks, delivered while Netanyahu was attending commemorations of the killings in Paris, caught backlash from French officials, and ruffled feathers among some of the Jerusalem funeral-goers, who saw the Prime Minister’s remarks as ill-timed.

“I think that it is very honorable to be buried in Israel,” said Ziva Rimmon, 19, an American from Los Angeles living in Jerusalem on a gap-year program. “I think it’s important to live in Israel, but I also think that we need to have a place all over the world.”

“As to the timing of when he said it– OK, I say it’s debatable, but as far as the content of what he said—I don’t think that message is to be trivialized,” said Robby Berman, 48, an American-Israeli who also lives in Jerusalem. “I think the message needs to be made. And I don’t think there anything wrong with saying it.”

Berman added that he was nonplussed by the response from the French-Muslim community. “I think we need to hear more from Muslim groups and see Muslim protests,” he said. While all Muslims are not responsible for the attacks, he said, Muslims are obligated to speak out against the killings. After the abduction and burning alive last July of a Palestinian East Jerusalemite teen, Mohammed Abu Khdeir, by Israeli nationalists, Berman was part of a delegation of 200 Israelis who paid respects to the family. “I wanted to come as an Orthodox Jew and condemn what my group of people—even though I don’t really identify with them, but they are Jewish, they were religious—so I wanted to come and condemn that,” he said.

Berman expects the same from Muslims in Paris. “Muslims need to come out and condemn what Muslims are doing even if they don’t feel that they are extremist Muslims. Otherwise,” he added, “we are going to lose faith in the Islamic community around the world.”

“On the one hand I’m greatly concerned for people becoming extremely right-wing, black and white and painting all Muslims as terrorists. On the other hand I’m greatly concerned that our leadership,” said Berman, “is not taking this seriously enough. I think most people are willing to give up their freedom of privacy, to a certain degree, and allow secret police to be inside synagogues and churches and mosque to make sure that there is no one fulminating violence,” he added.

Others at the funeral uttered harsher words for Muslims and Arabs and conflated the Paris attackers with Palestinians in an “us and them” frame.

“I think they are proud of themselves, of what they did. They have another mind set,” said Eric Meltz, 15, of the perpetrators of the fatal hostage takeover of Paris’ Hyper Cacher store. Meltz is a francophone Israeli student who attended the Jerusalem burial with a cohort from his school. “If they kill Jewish people, they are getting happy, they are starting a party,” he said of the Arab community in France.

“I don’t like how they think,” Meltz continued, and likened the French issue to the conflict in Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territory. “Let’s say Israeli soldiers kill someone from the Muslim [community], they [Muslims] will make revenge. But if they make a terrorist attack on us, we don’t think of revenge. That’s the difference between us and them. We are better people,” said Meltz.

Also on Tuesday a funeral was held in Paris for three police officers killed in the attack on the offices of Charlie Hebdo last week. The magazine will print three million copies of a special issue with a cover design by cartoonist Renald “Luz” Luzier who was spared from the January 7th attack as he overslept the morning the gunmen opened fire on the editorial staff. The latest issue’s front will feature an image of the prophet Mohammed holding a sign that reads “Je Suis Charlie,” the iconic phrase of solidarity with the slain magazine workers.

Next week a national memorial will be held in Paris for all 17 victims of both attacks.

Allison Deger

Allison Deger is the Assistant Editor of Mondoweiss.net. Follow her on twitter at @allissoncd.

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91 Responses

  1. pabelmont on January 14, 2015, 7:55 pm

    And when a Christian somewhere kills someone (in such a fashion) will these Israelis demand that all Christians denounce the killing? And if a Jew (say an Israeli settler) kills someone in such a fashion, must all Jews (or even all Israelis) denounce? And if the gov’t of Israel knows but does not punish, then what?

    And if the IDF does a (another) Gaza, then what? Should the whole world denounce? Or only Jews?

    • Daniel Rich on January 14, 2015, 8:41 pm

      @ pabelmont,

      Man [unless you’re a woman], you make my head spin with all your questions. Where to begin?

  2. Kris on January 14, 2015, 7:59 pm

    Eric Meltz, 15, an Israeli student: “Let’s say Israeli soldiers kill someone from the Muslim [community], they [Muslims] will make revenge. But if they make a terrorist attack on us, we don’t think of revenge. That’s the difference between us and them. We are better people,” said Meltz.”

    Wow. I’m not sure whether I should laugh or cry.

    Maybe I’ll just hope that some graphic artist will use this quote as the caption on a poster–there are countless news photos showing the gut-wrenching cruelty of Israel’s non-revenge.

    • seafoid on January 15, 2015, 5:52 am

      The human capacity for self delusion is boundless.

    • a blah chick on January 15, 2015, 10:24 am

      “Let’s say Israeli soldiers kill someone from the Muslim [community],”

      Yeah, that never happens.

    • RockyMissouri on January 15, 2015, 2:10 pm

      Goofy child…!?$ Is he in complete denial of how the settlers mistreat the Palestinians…??

    • Mooser on January 15, 2015, 6:17 pm

      Yes, Kris, in the past few days, I’ve been very taken with the idea of transforming the comment archives of some of our more notable defenders of Zionist intransigence and freedom-of-speech-for-me into a comic book, or graphic novel. Of course, it will just be freedom-of-speech, religious criticism, with Charlie Hebdo setting the bar.
      They’ll love it! Especially when they see themselves, and where the bar is set.

  3. eljay on January 14, 2015, 8:13 pm

    >> Berman added that he was nonplussed by the response from the French-Muslim community. “I think we need to hear more from Muslim groups and see Muslim protests,” he said. While all Muslims are not responsible for the attacks, he said, Muslims are obligated to speak out against the killings.

    Similarly, while all Jews are not responsible for Jewish supremacism, colonialism and other past and ON-GOING Jewish (war) crimes, Jews are obligated to speak out against them. Right, Berman?

    Or are you just another Zio-supremacist hypocrite who believes that it’s OK for Jews to commit crimes against others that they would not have committed against them?

    • RoHa on January 15, 2015, 1:46 am

      “Similarly, while all Jews are not responsible for Jewish supremacism, colonialism …”

      Surely you mean “while not all Jews are responsible for Jewish supremacism, …”

      You know that some Jews are responsible for those things.

      • eljay on January 15, 2015, 12:53 pm

        >> RoHa: Surely you mean “while not all Jews are responsible for Jewish supremacism, …”

        Surely I did! :-) But I was purposely copying Berman’s phrasing.

    • Mooser on January 15, 2015, 9:24 pm

      “Similarly, while all Jews are not responsible for Jewish supremacism, colonialism and other past and ON-GOING Jewish (war) crimes, Jews are obligated to speak out against them. “

      It couldn’t hurt.

      • eljay on January 15, 2015, 9:44 pm

        >> Mooser: It couldn’t hurt.

        To speak out? No, it couldn’t hurt. To obligate them to speak out? I guess it couldn’t hurt those who do speak out, but it might hurt those who don’t.

        But, hey, if Berman’s OK with Jews being obligated to speak out against the (war and other) crimes of Jews, at least he’s being consistent. I suspect, however, that he’s not consistent.

  4. Daniel Rich on January 14, 2015, 8:41 pm

    Q: …which later sought payment from families of $13,000 each for the ceremonies.

    R: Making money out of misery?

    Unprecedented!

    • Kathleen on January 14, 2015, 10:44 pm

      Offer to memorialize then asked to pay. A PR opportunity…

      • RockyMissouri on January 15, 2015, 2:12 pm

        Like Netanyahu’s French intrusion. Making the most of it.

    • Walid on January 15, 2015, 1:13 am

      “Making money out of misery?”

      It’s more like political capital. What about all other Jews in the world, don’t they get a free burial in Israel?

      • jon s on January 15, 2015, 1:47 am

        A Jew who dies anywhere in the world , and the family wants to bury him or her in Israel , the family will have to pay for the transport, the plot and the burial. In this case, of the Paris victims, the fee was paid by the state, because of the special circumstances.

        If they want a free burial in Israel – they need to immigrate when they’re still alive…

      • ziusudra on January 15, 2015, 5:14 am

        Greetings jon s,
        …A Jew who dies…..
        Bibi not only crashed de Party to get on de band wagon, but he’s behind this politicum to have these four French Citizens buried in Israel. What a coincidence that all four wished burial in Jerusalem when they die, hence it was not their wish. Bibi ne’er misses an opportunity for his comedies!
        We hear bizarre stories of WWII where the victims were asked to pay for de bullet before execution. This poor clerk was just doing his job to ask for burial payments. I’m sure he was ordered to try it, maybe the families wouldn’t object? Zionistan does have bills to pay, you know.
        ziusudra

      • seafoid on January 15, 2015, 5:39 am

        Jon

        Are they buried in East Jerusalem or West Jerusalem? I know the mount of olives cemetery is in East Jerusalem- is that where those 4 unfortunates were buried ?

      • Shingo on January 15, 2015, 6:31 am

        In this case, of the Paris victims, the fee was paid by the state, because of the special circumstances.

        If being buried in Israel is the wish of the family, so be it, but the special circumstances here are PR for Bibbi.

      • eljay on January 15, 2015, 7:59 am

        >> jon s: A Jew who dies anywhere in the world , and the family wants to bury him or her in Israel …

        Or in occupied Jerusalem, apparently.

      • hophmi on January 15, 2015, 1:28 pm

        In an otherwise-good piece, you neglected to give the reason for the charge. The families were offered a free burial in the multistory graves where many Israelis are buried because of lack of cemetery space. They refused, and insisted on burial in-ground.

      • Mooser on January 15, 2015, 6:24 pm

        “The families were offered a free burial in the multistory graves where many Israelis are buried because of lack of cemetery space. They refused, and insisted on burial in-ground.”

        The “multistory graves where many Israelis are buried” wasn’t good enough for them? Makes sense, even today, the ground and first-floor apartments in Paris are the most highly prized.

        And the Muslim man who saved several people in the super-market shooting was granted French citizenship.

      • Daniel Rich on January 16, 2015, 6:18 am

        Didn’t Charlie Harpo Herpes Hebdo sell like, what, like 6,000,000 extra copies of their rag instead of their regular 60,000, courtesy of this tragedy?

        Shouldn’t they have forked out/over a bit?

        I don’t know who, but someone is laughing all the way to the bank….

        I didn’t expect bloody BiBi to have a heart, so that slow bus had sailed eons ago.

      • Mooser on January 16, 2015, 10:59 am

        Gee, it hurts me to say it, but why not be fair? Sure is a whole different attitude among the squats, isn’t there? Compare the attitudes and comments when a few Jews get killed, and when thousands of Palestinians are killed. Very easy to do using the comment archives.

        I’ve never liked the word “troll”, so I propose that as a substitute.

      • Daniel Rich on January 16, 2015, 12:22 pm

        @ Mooser,

        Q: Squats??

        R: Once you’re haunted by Windigos [not drive around in your dad’s Winnebago] you’ll give Squat about your old man’s iron box… wait a minute, which matrix am I on?

        The white world hurts…

      • Mooser on January 16, 2015, 12:59 pm

        “The white world hurts…”

        Speaking of “tribal” I came across (and read!) an interesting and enjoyable book: “Rez Life (An Indian’s Journey Through Reservation Life)” by David Treuer.

  5. Whizdom on January 14, 2015, 9:46 pm

    Kim Harroch, the man who killed these innocent victims, whose funeral you attended was not “Arabs”. And I can’t make sense out of the rest of your comment. Because “security”.

    Eric Meltz comment about “they” throw a party celebrating the attack. I am reminded of tending bar in NYC back during the conflict in Norhtern Ireland, they did celebrate after an IRA terror attack, and they did pass the hat for “the boyos, and the NYC pols would come around at election time and the parish priest would always end the service with a prayer for peace and a free Ireland. and some young men would go to Ireland and fight, and come back with cold eyes and they drank for free.
    Would the peace process come sooner if we cracked down on Radical Catholicism?

    • seafoid on January 15, 2015, 5:50 am

      Violence is political and has to be addressed politically.
      “Security” is a crock of shit when people are forced to resort to violence.

      Cracking down on violence a la Israel and Ulster Unionism contaminates the society doing the crackdown and just makes the search for a solution harder.

      Ulster Unionism is a real mess now. There is no going back to the status quo ante.
      The death last year of Ian Paisley, the Lieberman of Ulster, put this into very clear focus .

      http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/there-can-be-no-doubt-that-certain-words-ian-paisley-spoke-sent-men-out-to-kill-1.1927558

      “Sad. No doubt about it, I felt sad when I heard of his death. Sad for his devoted and formidable wife, Eileen, heartbroken in the new hush of her sitting room with the fierce books on the shelves, the little china pandas in the glass cabinet in the corner. Sad for his family.
      But sad too about the lives that were squandered due to the destructive politics Paisley relentlessly hammered into his people. His booming voice ricocheted off the Armagh drumlins when he preached at Drumcree, and Billy Wright and his gang loaded up their guns, another generation of sectarian killers led to believe that God was on their side.
      It was a voice I’d been hearing since it boomed across the fields from the Free Presbyterian church when I was a child in Derry. It was macho and outrageous and scary, but there was a strong element of vaudeville about it too. Women tittered at his jokes about good Protestants breeding to beat the Catholics. Men chuckled and said the “Big Man” said it like it was.
      Listening to the tributes, the slimiest from Alastair Campbell, the most difficult and stiffly dignified from Peter Robinson, the most poignant from Martin McGuinness, I remembered the three little Quinn brothers, burned to death in their home in Ballymoney after apocalyptic warnings from Paisley over the rights of the Orange Order at Drumcree.
      I remembered Billy Mitchell, a forlorn former loyalist paramilitary who told me he’d been into rock and roll until he started going to Paisley’s rallies in the 1960s and dropped rocking round the clock in favour of preparing for doomsday. He killed two men and never forgave himself.
      I remembered Mrs Reavey from Whitecross, whose sons were murdered by loyalists. She died a few years ago still waiting for Paisley to apologise for saying they were in the IRA when he knew well that they were not. “

      • amigo on January 15, 2015, 8:21 am

        Thanks for that seafoid not that yonah and co will take any lessons from it.

        They would worship Mr 3 no,s as in “Never, never never” delivered with copious amounts of virulent spit.

        Had to surrender eventually , even though he caused many many needless deaths , on both sides before he came to his senses.

      • seafoid on January 15, 2015, 8:47 am

        Amigo

        What really emerged from all the analysis when he died was what a waste of time he was.

    • jon s on January 15, 2015, 7:05 am

      Seafoid ,
      At the Har Hamenuhot cemetary in west jerusalem, it’s near the western entrance to the city.

      • seafoid on January 15, 2015, 7:23 am

        Thanks. What sort of qualifications are required for burial in the Mount of Olives ? It sounds like having the status of close to Saladin’s tomb in Damascus.

    • RockyMissouri on January 15, 2015, 2:14 pm

      Whizdom: Thank you, for an excellent comment!

    • Mooser on January 15, 2015, 3:00 pm

      “Would the peace process come sooner if we cracked down on Radical Catholicism? “

      Oh, that’s a question you should really ask “Seanmcbride”. He’s an expert on that stuff.

    • amigo on January 15, 2015, 3:55 pm

      “Would the peace process come sooner if we cracked down on Radical Catholicism?” Whizdom

      Who is , “we” ?? and what has radical catholicism have to do with the conflict in Northern Ireland.

      The conflict in NI was about freedom and equality.If there was any religious radicalism it was the Unionists, who referred to Ulster as a Protestant Country for a Protestant people,even though 1/3 of the population were not Protestant .The Nationalist side happened to be Catholics but their fight was to rid themselves of their oppressors whose religion was irrelevant.

      • Whizdom on January 15, 2015, 7:18 pm

        Huh. So you are saying the conflict in NI is like the conflict in ME? Essentially fueled by competing nationalist aspirations,, between parties with profound power imbalances, with the weaker using terror tactics and both sides mobilizing sectarian, religious arguments to mobilize support and defend their cause?
        And if the problem were framed as religious extremism, no solution to that will address root causes?

      • Mooser on January 15, 2015, 11:19 pm

        “And if the problem were framed as religious extremism, no solution to that will address root causes?”

        So if we make laws against Judaism, will that cause the settlers to shape up and stop stealing land?
        If we make laws regarding the practice of Judaism in the US, will that help with Zionist intransigence? I mean, let’s get to the “root cause”, and do something about it.

        Ganders, Gooses, and sauce.

      • amigo on January 16, 2015, 5:34 am

        “Huh. So you are saying the conflict in NI is like the conflict in ME? Essentially fueled by competing nationalist aspirations,, between parties with profound power imbalances, with the weaker using terror tactics and both sides mobilizing sectarian, religious arguments to mobilize support and defend their cause?” Whizdom.

        Firstly, both sides in both conflicts use/d terror tactics.Google UDA/ UVF terrorism.Israel,s actions against Palestinians , ie, “Mowing the lawn” are nothing short of terrorism.

        Secondly , I thought I was clear that the Nationalist (Catholic) side was not trying to create a Catholic State for a Catholic People.The Protestants were the ones who introduced that Religious element, just as are the zionist Jews in the ME.

        You seem to make the same mistake that many do in assuming that the IRA were the only side committing terrorism and that States can do as they please.Ie, GOI against Palestinians and the British Gov against the Nationalists in NI.

        One thing for sure, the British Gov actions in NI look tame in comparison to Israel,s in occupied Palestine.

      • Mooser on January 16, 2015, 11:04 am

        “You seem to make the same mistake that many do in assuming that the IRA were the only side committing terrorism and that States can do as they please”

        Funny, isn’t it, amigo? I would think that considering what happened just in the last hundred years no Jew would ever, ever, not understand that States can be terrorist.

      • amigo on January 16, 2015, 1:24 pm

        “Funny, isn’t it, amigo? I would think that considering what happened just in the last hundred years no Jew would ever, ever, not understand that States can be terrorist. “mooser

        As you are the resident expert on Ziocaine and without giving the complete recipe away , can you confirm my suspicion that one of the ingredients causes myopia when administered to a willing patient.

      • Mooser on January 16, 2015, 2:44 pm

        “when administered to a willing patient.”

        Early research, casting about for hypotheses, centered on the administration of some kind of intoxicant or psycho-active chemical.
        This proved false (although it’s easy to see why the chemical intoxication theory was introduced) and today, most people accept the idea that the Ziocaine Syndrome is a purely behavioral malady.
        It is inevitable that such strong behavioral and emotional disturbances cause measurable physiological reactions, but these disturbances are the result, not the cause, of the Syndrome.

  6. Kathleen on January 14, 2015, 10:43 pm

    Just so telling that these same Jewish mourners could not feel the same empathy and compassion towards the several thousand Palestinians that their military slaughtered this past summer. A real problem when you can not extend that kind of empathy towards non Jews. Actually pathetic. And bless the souls of the four memoralized.

    How many Palestinian families had the opportunity to memorialize their family members slaughtered by the Israeli military….500 children

    • seafoid on January 15, 2015, 5:59 am

      http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/15/turkish-pm-ahmet-davutoglu–muhammad-cartoons-provocation-charlie-hebdo

      “Turkey’s prime minister, Ahmet Davutoğlu, has compared his Israeli counterpart Binyamin Netanyahu to the Islamist militants whose attacks in Paris left 17 dead, saying both had committed crimes against humanity.
      “Netanyahu has committed crimes against humanity the same like those terrorists who carried out the Paris massacre,” he told reporters in televised comments.
      His comments risk fuelling the increasingly tense relationship between the two countries after the Turkish president, Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, criticised Netanyahu for attending the anti-terror solidarity march in Paris at the weekend.”

      There is a huge split developing between moderate Muslim leaders and Israel over the nihilism in Gaza . It’s made possible by the clear lack of support for Israel in Europe and the fading power of the US in the region.

      All Israel will have soon is the bought whores in Congress.

    • hophmi on January 15, 2015, 1:29 pm

      “Just so telling that these same Jewish mourners could not feel the same empathy and compassion towards the several thousand Palestinians that their military slaughtered this past summer.”

      Save your tendentious demagoguery, Kathleen. Palestinians celebrate in the street when Jews are murdered in Palestinian suicide bombings.

      • Mooser on January 15, 2015, 7:25 pm

        “Palestinians celebrate in the street when Jews are murdered in Palestinian suicide bombings.”

        This is nice! I like a little religion, as much as the next fellow, and to come here and find Hophmi prating Shibbolesses to the Zionist Deitess is very gratifying.
        Yes, I’m concluding the Zionists have adopted, in the best tradition of religion, ancient and modern, a female Goddess. The evidence is in their prayers.
        Just look at Hophmi’s offering. Would you say “Mommeeeee, he’s worse than me, and besides, he did it first. I only did it cause he did, Mommeee. He hates me, Mommeeeee And he called me names!” to a vengeful righteous male God and expect to get away with it?

      • talknic on January 16, 2015, 5:27 am

        @ hophmi “… Palestinians celebrate in the street when Jews are murdered in Palestinian suicide bombings.”

        Is there any ACTUAL evidence of Palestinians celebrating in the street when Jews are murdered in Palestinian suicide bombings? Please don’t waste everyone’s time with videos like the alleged celebrations of 9/11, where there’s a reporter making claims of what he’d like people to believe, but in fact there’s no actual evidence in the footage of why they were celebrating. Or the young man selling sweets in traffic and again it is only a reporter telling us what he’d like people to believe.

        Furthermore, how many Israeli criminal bombings and murders have been conveniently blamed on the Palestinians?

      • Mooser on January 16, 2015, 11:13 am

        “Is there any ACTUAL evidence of Palestinians celebrating in the street when Jews are murdered in Palestinian suicide bombings?”

        Well, no, not really. But the Zionist Goddess “Mommeee” is an easy Goddess to fool.
        So they invoke the benediction “Mommeee, they did it first!” Or “Mommee, they make us do it!” The efficacy of the prayer of course, depends on how long and drawn-out the great “eee’s” at the end of the are.
        As the Book says” And lo, the Zionists gathered in the multitudes, and with a great prayer, the whirlwind was sown: “Mommeeee!” they cried, each man louder more strident than his neighbor, ending with the basic, fundamental prayer of Zionism, their fucking “Sh’ma’mmee”, a cry to resound through eternity: “It’s their fault!”

    • jon s on January 15, 2015, 2:11 pm

      Seafoid,
      As far as I know, there are several different “Hevrot Kadisha” operating there (Sefardim, Yemenite, Hassidim…and more) so you would have to inquire at each one.
      This may not be relevant to your question , just a personal note: my grandmother, of blessed memory , is buried in Bnei Brak, in the “Shomrei Shabbes” cemetery. To be buried there you need to prove that you’ve been shomer shabbes you whole life.

      • lysias on January 15, 2015, 2:39 pm

        To be buried there you need to prove that you’ve been shomer shabbes you whole life.

        They don’t welcome repentant sinners? Is the story of the prodigal son one of Jesus’s departures from Judaism?

      • Mooser on January 15, 2015, 3:05 pm

        “To be buried there you need to prove that you’ve been shomer shabbes you whole life.”

        And that is very, very hard, to be “shomer Shabbes you(sic) whole life”. Most people can’t do it.

        Gee, “Jons” why do I get the feeling the only really good Jews are dead Jews?

        You know, pal, while I’m alive, you’d cut my throat for Zionism in a hot minute, but if a Muslim shoots me down, oh, how you would morn me. You would cry and pray to Shiva.

      • Whizdom on January 15, 2015, 3:13 pm

        Pray to Shiva? Or sit Shiva? Is this one of those fusion style ecumenical things I never get?

      • Mooser on January 15, 2015, 6:39 pm

        “Pray to Shiva?”

        Whizdom, are one of those who only passed his Scripture Knowledge test by dint of a list of “begats” inscribed on your shirt-cuffs? I wouldn’t think so.
        But in any case; you know, “Shiva”. I believe she is a “destroyer of worlds” and her motto is “I am become death”. Wow!
        I would say: “Not a gal you’d want to cross”, but I’m not an expert on that stuff. Brawling with eight-armed women is not my style.
        And you can sit while praying Shiva. You don’t have to shout or leap about, you can even pray them easy! And then you can forget about the past, and all your sorrows.

      • Mooser on January 15, 2015, 6:58 pm

        “you need to prove”

        “Prove” Yeah, okay, “prove”. With notarized documents? Candle stubs? Challah crusts?

        “Prove” sure, okay, it’s proven.

      • Mooser on January 15, 2015, 7:13 pm

        “As far as I know, there are several different “Hevrot Kadisha” operating there (Sefardim, Yemenite, Hassidim…and more) so you would have to inquire at each one.”

        That’s telling him, “Jon s”, asking political questions while you are deep in morning.

        Besides, what possible difference could it make where they are, I mean, it’s not like all of it isn’t ours, huh “Jon s”?

      • Mooser on January 15, 2015, 9:38 pm

        “As far as I know, there are several different “Hevrot Kadisha” operating there (Sefardim, Yemenite, Hassidim…and more)”

        You see, Seafoid, strict denominational segregation, even in death, is how we honor the memory of those killed in the Holocaust, who were often dumped, regardless of sect, into unmarked graves or reduced to ash.

      • Whizdom on January 15, 2015, 10:03 pm

        Here’s a good bit of reporting from The Forward. Even more of a tragic farce than earlier reported The poor parents.

        http://forward.com/articles/212791/sad-but-true-farce-behind-israels-funeral-for-pari/

      • Kris on January 15, 2015, 11:20 pm

        @Whizdom, thanks for the link to The Forward article. This would be so funny if it weren’t so sad.

        “Avi Zana, director of the AMI foundation who was helping the families, described the situation as unpleasant. “When they decided on a state burial, they realized that everything was in the hands of the state and then they were asked to pay, it’s very hurtful and makes no sense.”

        “According to Zana, two of the four families had a hard time deciding whether or not to go ahead with burial in Israel. “This is not an easy decision. Muslims who were killed in the attack were buried in France, if we decide to bury in France, then it is clear that our future is in France. There were senior members of the community who were asking if the Jews of France have two states. This is a crucial question, and the families took time to decide.”

        Read more: http://forward.com/articles/212791/sad-but-true-farce-behind-israels-funeral-for-pari/#ixzz3OxFwUjkJ

  7. CigarGod on January 15, 2015, 8:36 am

    Eric Meltz, age 15 speaks for all Jews and says we dont seek revenge.
    Hhhmmm…i have a full color photo of Israeli school girls writing love letters on bombs…bigger than they are…which are soon to be dropped on Gaza.

    • RockyMissouri on January 15, 2015, 2:22 pm

      I denounce that horror! To teach your children to do such as that ….IS A CRIME !!! For ANYONE to abuse their precious child and turn them into a hater is wrong.

      • Mooser on January 15, 2015, 7:07 pm

        “For ANYONE to abuse their precious child and turn them into a hater is wrong.”

        Now, it does look wrong, but is teaching a child that he has the blood of the Kings of Judah (and Samaria) flowing through his veins, and that he belongs to a very special “people” a “nation”, turning him into a “hater”? Why, it’s just telling him who he is!
        It doesn’t have to make him a “hater”, does it?

        “I don’t like how they think,” Meltz continued, and likened the French issue to the conflict in Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territory. “Let’s say Israeli soldiers kill someone from the Muslim [community], they [Muslims] will make revenge. But if they make a terrorist attack on us, we don’t think of revenge. That’s the difference between us and them. We are better people,” said Meltz.”

        See what I mean? Are those the words of a “hater”? Why they sound like the words of a adolescent who wants to grow up and be the “better people”

        C’mon, “Jon s”, help me out here!

      • Mooser on January 15, 2015, 9:32 pm

        And so smart! Fifteen years old, and already he knows how people think! A psychiatrist, he could be. And from the “difference” he knows, and how to be “the better people”! Already! At fifteen. Oy, such nachos! With extra cheese. With such bright children growing up to take care of us, the future of Judaism is in the hands of “the better people”

    • Mooser on January 15, 2015, 6:53 pm

      “Eric Meltz, age 15 speaks for all Jews”

      Certainly, any intelligent kid should be ready to do that, and have had some experience at it, before he reaches his/her majority. Perhaps parents could encourage them, and religious instruction may also help expand this capacity. However, young parents shouldn’t fear, the best teacher is usually parental action! Children will soon follow their parent’s example and begin analyzing all social problems in terms of the relevant and meaningful ethnic, racial and religious delineations. And when they see their parents aren’t afraid of contradicting themselves, and exhibiting rank hypocrisy, and at the top of their lungs, too, it will give them confidence in their own! An unselfconscious and unabashed capacity to speak for their people can be a positive adjunct to the successful personality. Little Eric Meltz will be winning friends and influencing people his whole life, thanks to these fundamental lessons!

      • CigarGod on January 15, 2015, 7:58 pm

        Moose!
        In the road in jackson.
        Almost met my maker…but he wasnt on my mind…it was the thought of the beer a beautiful massage therapist was going to buy me…at the million dollar bar and saloon that gave me my carlos montoya moves…and i passed under the whiskered chin without even slowing down.

      • Marnie on January 17, 2015, 4:27 am

        “Oy such nachos! With extra cheese”! – Mooser, thanks to that my morning coffee was more like a neti pot treatment!!

      • Mooser on January 18, 2015, 11:40 am

        “Mooser, thanks to that my morning coffee was more like a neti pot treatment!!”

        Far out! We mostly stick to the good old sativa and indica varieties.

  8. CigarGod on January 15, 2015, 10:06 am

    So, anyone know who the Belgian is who sold the rocket launcher, kalashnikof, and other weapons to the France attackers?

    NPR just mentioned he/she has been arrested…but no name…or other specifics. Apparently…it was soley a profit motive.

  9. Misterioso on January 15, 2015, 6:16 pm

    Pope Francis on Charlie Hebdo: There are limits to free expression:

    http://www.dawn.com/news/1157202/pope-on-charlie-hebdo-there-are-limits-to-free-expression

    Pope Francis said on Thursday there are limits to freedom of expression, especially when it insults or ridicules someone’s faith.

    Francis spoke about the Paris terror attacks while en route to the Philippines, defending free speech as not only a fundamental human right but a duty to speak one’s mind for the sake of the common good.

    But he said there were limits. By way of example, he referred to Alberto Gasparri, who organizes papal trips and was standing by his side aboard the papal plane.

    “If my good friend Dr. Gasparri says a curse word against my mother, he can expect a punch,” Francis said, throwing a pretend punch his way.

    “It’s normal. You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others.”

    Many people around the world have defended the right of satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo to publish inflammatory cartoons of the Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) in the wake of the massacre by Islamic extremists at its Paris offices and subsequent attack on a kosher supermarket in which three gunmen killed 17 people.

    But recently the Vatican and four prominent French imams issued a joint declaration that denounced the attacks but also urged the media to treat religions with respect.

    Francis, who has urged Muslim leaders in particular to speak out against Islamic extremism, went a step further when asked by a French journalist about whether there were limits when freedom of expression meets freedom of religion.

    Francis insisted that it was an “aberration” to kill in the name of God and said religion can never be used to justify violence. But he said there was a limit to free speech when it concerned offending someone’s religious beliefs.

    “There are so many people who speak badly about religions or other religions, who make fun of them, who make a game out of the religions of others,” he said.

    “They are provocateurs. And what happens to them is what would happen to Dr. Gasparri if he says a curse word against my mother. There is a limit.”

    In the wake of the Paris attacks, the Vatican has sought to downplay reports that it is a potential target for Islamic extremists, saying it is being vigilant but has received no specific threat.

    Francis said he was concerned primarily for the faithful, and said he had spoken to Vatican security officials who are taking “prudent and secure measures.”

    “I am worried, but you know I have a defect: a good dose of carelessness. I’m careless about these things,” he said.

    But he admitted that in his prayers, he had asked that if something were to happen to him that “it doesn’t hurt, because I’m not very courageous when it comes to pain. I’m very timid.” He added, “I’m in God’s hands. “

  10. Kris on January 15, 2015, 11:59 pm

    Can’t stop thinking about how Netanyahu invited the families of the four Jewish victims to have them buried in Israel, and then when they arrived, they found they were expected to pay for the funerals themselves. http://forward.com/articles/212791/sad-but-true-farce-behind-israels-funeral-for-pari/#ixzz3OxFwUjkJ

    Is Israel trying to stir up antisemiticism by promoting offensive stereotypes? Or maybe it’s understood in Israel that your host will expect you to pay if you accept his invitation to an expensive event?

  11. radkelt on January 16, 2015, 1:36 am

    When I was the age of Eric Meltz I was a much different person than I am today. At about age 20/21 I enthusiastically sought to be trained as a technically trained killer of “enemies of our way of life”. My great good fortune was failing to do so.
    My point here is it would be instructive to follow Eric’s development to see how and what influences his future perceptions.

    • Mooser on January 16, 2015, 11:17 am

      “My point here is it would be instructive to follow Eric’s development to see how and what influences his future perceptions”

      Yes it would. I’m sure his parents and everybody around him want him to be successful, and will spare no effort to that end. Just one or two more years and he’ll be in the IDF, and from there, his path will be smooth sailing.

  12. DaBakr on January 16, 2015, 2:19 am

    @ks

    thats right….you keep worrying yourself about Netanyahu confirming widespread Jew-haters belief that ‘Jews are cheap’ when it came to the funeral costs of the 4 targeted and murdered French Jews. Don’t read the explanation for where they were offered to be interned and where the families wanted them to be buried. And you can also ignore that the Jewish Home party picked up the tab anyway-but of course not before outlets like MW and others got wind of the financial mix-up and chose to blow it up into a “what steroetype is this?” moment.
    you do realize the 4 families could have said “non”. And chosen to bury their loved ones in the country that supposedly embraces them-France. I have no idea why they chose to be buried not on french soil. I just know they are welcome to rip here if this was their families last wish. I have no idea or prejudice as to where the 3 killers will be, ,ight be or should be buried as well.

    • talknic on January 16, 2015, 5:36 am

      @ DaBakr “you keep worrying yourself about Netanyahu confirming widespread Jew-haters belief that ‘Jews are cheap’ when it came to the funeral costs of the 4 targeted and murdered French Jews”

      Seems to be only YOUR belief here buster, no one else here has said it

      BTW You do realize Jerusalem isn’t in Israeli territory http://wp.me/pDB7k-W8

      • Mooser on January 16, 2015, 11:20 am

        “BTW You do realize Jerusalem isn’t in Israeli territory link to wp.me”

        Now, talknic, I ask you, how would a Zionist know anything about borders and boundaries and areas and stuff. I mean, don’t people use algebra to calculate that stuff? You can’t expect a Zionist to sully his mind with that!

        BTW, all of the people who died in the Paris attacks have been thoroughly vetted. DNA is right, spectrographic analysis of internal organs confirm glat Kosher lifestyle, notarized records “prove” shomer shabbos, and none of them Reform, let alone secular!

      • Daniel Rich on January 16, 2015, 1:26 pm

        @ Mooser,

        Q: algebra

        R: I don’ t think AlJazeera Al-Jabr balances 2 sides of the equation…

      • DaBakr on January 18, 2015, 12:34 am

        and where is it you think Jerusalem is?

      • talknic on January 18, 2015, 1:59 am

        @ DaBakr “and where is it you think Jerusalem is?”

        Where it has always been. Cities rarely move. Borders sometimes change and encompass different areas, even cities. However, Israel’s borders have never changed by any legal mechanism since the day they were proclaimed by the Israeli Government in order that the State of Israel be recognized! http://www.trumanlibrary.org/whistlestop/study_collections/israel/large/documents/newPDF/49.pdf

        If you think it’s in Israel, you’ll surely be able to show how, when and by what legal agreement Jerusalem legally became Israeli territory. Yes?

      • Walid on January 18, 2015, 7:26 am

        “If you think it’s in Israel, you’ll surely be able to show how, when and by what legal agreement Jerusalem legally became Israeli territory. ”

        You have a point, talknic, since in pre-48 Palestine, Jerusalem was effectively in Palestine but since the PA and the Arab League and in an indirect way Hamas too, have all accepted the 67 borders as the borders of Israel, West Jerusalem could be considered as part of Israel. Of course this does not include East Jerusalem that the Israelis took in 67. I’m not happy with the post-48 or the post-67 borders and what the Palestinians have agreed-to, but since I’m not Palestinian, nobody cares what I believe..

      • talknic on January 25, 2015, 4:58 am

        @ Walid “since the PA and the Arab League and in an indirect way Hamas too, have all accepted the 67 borders as the borders of Israel, West Jerusalem could be considered as part of Israel. “

        Tho they might have been willing to concede that territory for peace with Israel, until there is a written agreement, it isn’t!

        The expression the “67 borders” is a nonsense, they’re Armistice Demarcation Lines. Israel’s borders are are the same as they were in 1948. There has never been any change by any legal means to the borders the Israeli Government proclaimed on May 15th 1948 in order to be recognized http://www.trumanlibrary.org/whistlestop/study_collections/israel/large/documents/newPDF/49.pdf . No treaty, no agreement, no legal annexation via an agreement. NOTHING!

        Israel’s 31st Aug 1949 claim to the territories it had acquired by war by 1949 http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/fd807e46661e3689852570d00069e918/c96e0252e7710bce85256d95006bc157?OpenDocument was rebuffed by the Commission, citing the Armistice Agreements
        http://domino.un.org/pdfs/AAC25IS37.pdf

        The Israelis insist there be a negotiated settlement, otherwise Israel is obliged to act according to the law, withdraw from all non-Israeli territories and pay rightful compensations.

        However, even in a negotiated settlement or an agreement the Palestinians are not legally obliged to forgo any of their legal rights to anything and Israel has no legal right to demand the Palestinians forgo any of their legal rights.

      • Walid on January 25, 2015, 5:32 am

        “The expression the “67 borders” is a nonsense, they’re Armistice Demarcation Lines.” (talknic)

        You’re right of course, talknic, but if the Palestinians themselves won’t make a fuss about this issue, why should we? The PA has thrown in the towel about anything predating 67 and including pre-48 and has just about written-off any substantial RoR and as of late, Hamas is singing the same tune. Are we to object when the Palestinians are not? Now the Palestinians are talking about conceding another major point concerning the swaps across the 67 lines whatever we may decide to call them.

    • Mooser on January 16, 2015, 11:27 am

      “thats right….you keep worrying yourself about Netanyahu confirming widespread Jew-haters belief that ‘Jews are cheap’ “

      Okay, “Dabakr” that is one above the frozen limit, pal. You’ve torn the tallit this time, and no yarn will darn it, damn it! Get one thing, and get it straight right now:

      We may be easy, but we ain’t cheap!

      EDIT: Pending further research, I suspend the above comment. It actually may be the other way ’round.

      • Daniel Rich on January 16, 2015, 1:33 pm

        @ Mooser,

        Q: We may be easy, but we ain’t cheap!

        R: Why shlep around your YSL suitcase set then… ain’t got no trustworthy kaffir in da hood 2 do it for ya?

      • Mooser on January 16, 2015, 7:11 pm

        So you’re going with “cheap, but not easy”? That might be it. Could very well be right. Or, you know, it might switch back and forth. No, to my chagrin, “cheap, but not easy” sounds right. I got it wrong.

    • Kris on January 16, 2015, 4:52 pm

      @DBkr: “you do realize the 4 families could have said “non”. And chosen to bury their loved ones in the country that supposedly embraces them-France.”

      It was a little late for them to change their minds, since they had already arrived, with the bodies of the victims, in Israel. According to The Forward: http://forward.com/articles/212791/sad-but-true-farce-behind-israels-funeral-for-pari/

      “But according to Yehuda Meshi-Zahav, chairman of the Zaka rescue and recovery organization, the government wanted the victims interred in Israel and even pressured one family, which initially preferred to hold the funeral in France, to hold it in Jerusalem.

      “Once the decision was made to bury all four victims in Israel, the embarrassments proliferated. First, the Yemenite community’s burial society suggested that the four be buried on the Mount of Olives in East Jerusalem, but it demanded 15,000 euros per grave……”

      Maybe you need to re-read the article, which clearly says that the French families were told AFTER arriving in Israel that they had to pay for the funerals, the gravesites and the prices kept changing, and finally, “Only after a day of discussions and farce was it decided that the state would cover the cost.”

      This episode does not make Israeli Jews look good. Just saying.

      • DaBakr on January 18, 2015, 12:37 am

        well kris, then thnk g-d the world has folks like you and MW to make sure that every episode that “does not make Israelis Jews look good” to make sure the world is apprised of and gossiped to for otherwise they might get the wrong impression about Israel.

      • annie on January 18, 2015, 12:45 am

        then thnk g-d the world has folks like you and MW to make sure ….. the world is apprised of and gossiped

        i think you can thank the israeli press for that, it as very well covered indeed. haggling over high profile corpses, especially ones used for propaganda purposes, gets attention way beyond the scope of “folks like you and MW”.

      • DaBakr on January 18, 2015, 1:55 am

        yes, annie, true. and g-d bless the Israeli press, especially Haaretz where without this rag (and its eternal placement at the precipice of near collapse,) the Israeli press would cease to be…Israeli and become something else entirely

      • annie on January 18, 2015, 2:33 am

        actually i first read all about it at ynet http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4614811,00.html. then i read Allison’s article, she sourced/embedded times of israel. i don’t recall reading about at haaretz.

        here’s the google options, doesn’t look like haaretz covered it:

        Bennett overturns decision to charge Paris victims’ families …
        http://www.ynetnews.com › Ynetnews › News
        Ynetnews
        5 days ago – Minister of Religious Services Naftali Bennett announced Tuesday night … to pay for the burial plots and funerals of the Hyper Cacher victims.
        Confusion, pressure around burial of Jewish Paris victims …
        http://www.timesofisrael.com › Israel & the Region
        The Times of Israel
        4 days ago – Cost and location of funerals was changed numerous times; Bennett … even pressured one of the victim’s families to have him buried in Israel, … full state funerals, there was no clear procedure for who would cover the cost.
        Israel To Cover Burial Costs Of Paris Victims In Jerusalem …
        http://www.thejewishweek.com/…/israel-cover-burial-costs-paris-victims-jerusa...
        4 days ago – Late Tuesday night, Bennett said his ministry would cover the costs. … Tuesday’s funeral for the four men at the Har HaMenuchot cemetery in …
        Israel to cover burial costs of Paris victims in Jerusalem – JTA
        http://www.jta.org/…/israel…/israel-to-cover-costs-o...
        Jewish Telegraphic Agency
        4 days ago – Late Tuesday night, Bennett said his ministry would cover the costs. … Tuesday’s funeral for the four men at the Har HaMenuchot cemetery in …
        Paris victims’ families charged for Jerusalem funerals – Israel …
        http://www.jpost.com/Israel…/Paris-victims-families-charge...
        The Jerusalem Post
        4 days ago – Families expected to pay nearly $13000. … JERUSALEM (JTA) — Israel’s burial association charged each of the …. Naftali Bennett, as Minister of Religious of Affairs, OVERTURNED the fee made by the Chevra Kadisha.
        ‘Families of Paris terror attack victims will not be charged for …
        http://www.jpost.com/…/Ministry-of-Religious-Services-Fa...
        The Jerusalem Post
        4 days ago – Burial of Israeli citizens is subsidized by the state but full costs are usually … Members of the Druse community watch the funeral of Israeli Druse police officer … to the ministry that it would not demand payment from the families. … of Minister for Religious Services Naftali Bennett and Deputy Minister Eli …

        so, those are your culprits!

      • straightline on January 18, 2015, 2:23 am

        I’ve just checked the BBC website – nothing there about this issue. I will not pay NYT so I cannot check there but willing to have a small bet with you about what you will find. I checked the Guardian – nothing there. The Daily Telegraph – nothing there. Sydney Morning Herald – nothing there – and then that would mean The Age too, which is almost identical. I will not check the Australian for the same reason as NYT but there I would bet a large amount! All of these outlets have something about the funerals in Jerusalem but none that I can check mention this.

        So DeBakr all of these “liberal” outlets (well except for DT which is conservative) are indeed giving me, at least, the wrong impression. Thank G-d for MW for telling us what Israelis are allowed to read in their own media.

      • talknic on January 18, 2015, 2:47 am

        @ DaBakr ” thnk g-d the world has folks like you and MW to make sure that every episode that “does not make Israelis Jews look good””

        Go whine to the Zionist Federation and the Israeli Government, they’re ensuring Israel doesn’t make Israelis Jews look good.

        My guess is you’d find yourself out of a job.

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