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Three Muslim-Americans murdered in North Carolina by gunman (Updated)

Three young Muslim-Americans were killed yesterday evening in Chapel Hill, North Carolina by a gunman who had posted anti-religious messages on his Facebook. The victims’ names are: 19-year-old Razan Mohammed Abu-Salha; 21-year-old Yusor Mohammed Abu-Salha; and 23-year-old Deah Shaddy Barakat.

Barakat was a dental student at the University of North Carolina. Yusor Mohammad Abu-Salha was Barakat’s wife, and was set to start dentistry school next academic year. Razan Mohammed Abu-Salha was the sister of Yusor. Barakat and Abu-Salha were married last December.

Chapel Hill Police have named 46-year-old Craig Hicks as a suspect. He has been charged with murder and is said to have killed them “execution style” with shots to the head. The police have released a statement saying its “preliminary investigation indicates that the crime was motivated by an ongoing neighbor dispute over parking.”

VICE News has more on Hicks:

The owner of [a Facebook page believed to belong to Hicks] frequently posted anti-religious messages. He is a member of groups including “Friends of Freedom From Religion Foundation,” and “Atheism on Youtube.” There are also multiple posts directly referring to Muslims, and a picture of a revolver on a weighing scales with the comment: “Yes, that is 1 pound 5.1 ounces for my loaded 38 revolver, its holster, and five extra rounds.”

VICE News could not independently verify that this page belonged to him.

The News & Observer based in Raleigh, North Carolina reports that the father of the Abu-Salha sisters believe the murder was a hate crime, and that Hicks had harassed Barakat and Abu-Salha in the past:

But the women’s father, Dr. Mohammad Abu-Salha, who has a psychiatry practice in Clayton, said regardless of the precise trigger Tuesday night, Hicks’ underlying animosity toward Barakat and Abu-Salha was based on their religion and culture. Abu-Salha said police told him Hicks shot the three inside their apartment.

“It was execution style, a bullet in every head,” Abu-Salha said Wednesday morning. “This was not a dispute over a parking space; this was a hate crime. This man had picked on my daughter and her husband a couple of times before, and he talked with them with his gun in his belt. And they were uncomfortable with him, but they did not know he would go this far.”

Abu-Salha said his daughter who lived next door to Hicks wore a Muslim head scarf and told her family a week ago that she had “a hateful neighbor.”

“Honest to God, she said, ‘He hates us for what we are and how we look,’” he said.

(Image: Carlos Latuff)

(Image: Carlos Latuff)

The case has rocked the Muslim-American community, who have taken to social media to mourn and vent their outrage at what they say is a lack of media attention to the case. Many Twitter uses have used the hashtag #MuslimLivesMatter to bring attention to the killings, a nod to the #BlackLivesMatter hashtag that has come to symbolize the anti-police brutality movement.

Nihad Awad, the head of the Council on American Islamic Relations, said in a statement that “based on the brutal nature of this crime, the past anti-religion statements of the alleged perpetrator, the religious attire of two of the victims, and the rising anti-Muslim rhetoric in American society, we urge state and federal law enforcement authorities to quickly address speculation of a possible bias motive in this case.”

Friends of the three victims have posted a Facebook page to memorialize them:

Deah, Yusor, and Razan have returned to their Lord. To Him we belong and to Him is our return.

They have been murdered in cold blood and will undoubtedly as a result be resurrected with the best of people on the day of judgement and the day of true justice. This in fact makes them winners.

This page is intended to facilitate communication and will hopefully carry on their legacy of service, great character and joy for life.

Deah Barakat was a Syrian-American who was raising money to send dentists to Syrian refugee camps in Turkey. Here’s video of his appeal:

The Guardian reports that Barakat had recently gone to Palestine to do relief work. The Abu-Salhas are reportedly Palestinian-Americans.

Adam Horowitz and Alex Kane

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196 Responses

  1. Cliff on February 11, 2015, 10:54 am

    What a tragedy. They only just got married a month ago.

    And for what? Nothing. Some neckbeard, mouth-breathing worthless shadow of a human being STOLE their life.

    • Cliff on February 11, 2015, 10:57 am

      Oh and FUCK YOU Bill Maher, Sam Harris, Richard Dawkins, and all the other New Atheist/mainstream Islamophobes.

      • jenin on February 11, 2015, 11:06 am

        Cliff, that was exactly my thought. Bill Maher on his show the other day (I’m guilty of still watching it, despite my boycott over the summer on his coverage of Gaza) mocked students holding signs saying that Islamophobia kills. Bill Maher said obviously guns and bombs kill, not Islamophobia. I hope he reconsiders now, although it should have been more than obvious to him before that Islamophobia is the reason Americans don’t care about deaths of Muslims by drones, in the Iraq war, in Palestine, etc.

        I have a feeling he and his ilk (Harris, Dawkins, etc.) will find a way to differentiate this from the violent acts of Muslims — this was just an isolated crazy, not the result of Islamophobia, blahblahblah.

        Well, I have news for them. Anyone with a brain could predict that nurturing hatred against Muslims and Islam will prompt some people to believe that Muslims are subhuman and it’s ok to kill them. Maybe Bill Maher and Sam Harris wouldn’t go out and shoot Muslims (although they sure will engage in twisted logic to justify killing them) but it is inevitable someone will use that worldview to develop such a hatred of Muslims he thinks it’s ok to kill innocents. Just like Muslims with enough frustration and hatred sometimes use their religion to justify killing of innocents.

      • bilal a on February 11, 2015, 11:16 am

        yes shooter followed sam harris , sarah silverman, hated both christians and muslims

        facebook page

        https://archive.today/nlrJV#selection-6191.0-6191.17

        father begs for information from police

        https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10205041143579504&set=vb.1570184079&type=2&theater

      • jenin on February 11, 2015, 11:29 am

        bilal a, I took a peek at his facebook page, ironically he says something about how you have a right to believe whatever you want, and he has a right to point out that your religion kills people.

        while I haven’t seen definitive proof that this killing was caused by his belief system, I find it really, really, really hard to believe that his anger of a parking spot wasn’t turned to murderous rage by victims’ religion

    • on February 11, 2015, 11:44 am

      The mainstream media is chalking this up to a parking spot dispute and so downplaying what this really is.

      Disgusting assholes

      • lysias on February 11, 2015, 11:46 am

        What kind of person murders three people over a parking space? There had to be more motivating him than that.

      • jenin on February 11, 2015, 11:55 am

        Lysias, it’s my impression (at this point speculation I guess) that he may have been angry about the parking space, but his anger was heightened to the point of murderous rage due to his anti-Muslim (and anti-Christian) beliefs. Very similar, I think, to Michael Dunn shooting the black teens over playing loud music. The music may have instigated his anger, but I strongly doubt it would have ended in bloodshed had the kids been white. And same here — had they been white American non-Muslims, I highly doubt he would have escalated this to the point of murder.

        may he rot in prison.

      • Kay24 on February 11, 2015, 12:06 pm

        Perhaps the hatred he had for these kids because of their obvious religion, gave him the motivation to kill them, and the parking dispute the excuse. He looks one ugly mean SOB in his mug shot.

      • lysias on February 11, 2015, 12:10 pm

        Kay24, that’s what I suspect.

      • Ellen on February 11, 2015, 2:09 pm

        Yeah, right. All three shot inside their apartment. Executions to the head . Sure a parking lot rage incident.

        Reports from local media coming out now show the hate goon (fed by Fox, CNN and the likes of Bill Maher) had been terrorizing them for weeks.

      • American on February 11, 2015, 4:09 pm

        The main stream media baers a geat deal responsibility for all the hatreds in this country.
        Look at what they do——99% of the ‘talkers’ they feature are people who ‘talk against’ one group or another.
        Atheist like Dawkins who advocate against religion, atheist like Maher who advocate against religion and Muslims in particular—-
        Religious fanatics like Huckabee who demonize non christians and also Mulsim in general.
        Zios who demonize Arabs and Muslims.
        Everything about the msm is a hate fest show for the ‘fringes’ of the US.

      • Daniel Rich on February 11, 2015, 7:05 pm

        @ Giles,

        Shouldn’t we have a good look @ who owns MSM that keeps spewing all this BS 24/7?

        Cui bono?

        You?

        I?

      • on February 12, 2015, 8:36 am

        Not only do initial police reports say this was over a parking dispute (do the police know they are supposed to say this or does their message get changed at some point?) they actually trotted out the wife of the murderer to claim the same thing (if it really is his wife!).

        The racism and dishonesty of the Zionist knows no bounds.

        Reminds me of when a Muslim was pushed in front of a subway train in NYC and Bloomberg immediately pooh-poohed the idea that could be a hate crime. Too busy making sure air travel to Tel Aviv from the USA remained open while Israel slaughtered the Gazans I guess.

      • Mikhael on February 12, 2015, 10:45 am

        Giles
        February 12, 2015, 8:36 am Reminds me of when a Muslim was pushed in front of a subway train in NYC and Bloomberg immediately pooh-poohed the idea that could be a hate crime.

        It was a Hindu, not a Muslim, who was killed– by a mentally disturbed woman who announced to police that she hated Muslims and Hindus. She was indeed charged with a hate crime by the DA in Queens County. Bloomberg didn’t pooh-pooh the idea that it could be a hate crime, but he did seek to reassure that the subway system was safe, because this was one of a slew of widely publicized incidents of people being pushed onto subway tracks by deranged people in 20120-2013. That was part of his job as mayor, to not let the citizens public panic about taking the subway.

        Erika Menendez, who pushed Sunando Sen, a non-Muslim, clearly expressed hatred against Muslims and Hindus and was thus charged with a hate crime. She is also a deranged woman who has been and out of psychiatric care.

        That said, the whole idea of prosecuting someone for a “hate crime” is a ridiculous concept, in my opinion. I don;t see why hatred for someone’s race, religion, or sexual orientation should be an aggravating factor. People should be prosecuted for the actual crimes they commit, not for the alleged hate that motivated them, to commit such a crime.

        Too busy making sure air travel to Tel Aviv from the USA remained open

        Giles99B, you’re confused again. Bloomberg flew to Gaza on El Al as a private citizen to demonstrate that Ben Gurion Airport was safe, even though Hamas rockets landed in Yehud, not far away> The FAA never banned flights to Israel, but seveal US-based carriers, e.g., United and Delta, canceled flights because of the Hamas rocket threat.
        Never was a fan of Bloomberg as mayor, but his act as a private citizen in flying to Tel Aviv on El

      • Mikhael on February 13, 2015, 10:29 am

        Giles February 11, 2015, 11:44 am
        The mainstream media is chalking this up to a parking spot dispute and so downplaying what this really is.

        Disgusting assholes

        The initial reporting of the “mainstream media” quoted the Chapel Hill police detectives, who had information that the confrontation resulting in the murders was the result over a dispute over a parking spot. That assessment was apparently based on testimony from neighbors of the perpetrator and the victims who were aware of the ongoing dispute, as well as a confession by the killer. Currently the “mainstream media” is full of discussions about whether or not it was a so-called hate crime.

        lysias February 11, 2015, 11:46 am
        What kind of person murders three people over a parking space?

        A deranged, violent person, or someone with no impulse control. That’s who. Like these people:

        http://www.wbaltv.com/news/police-dispute-led-to-fatal-double-shooting-near-school/30660532

        http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/arrest-made-queens-parking-spot-murder-article-1.1828323

        http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/OAKLAND-Fight-over-parking-spot-ends-in-slaying-2657681.php

        In none of the above disputes do the victims or perpetrators appear to have been Muslim. Absent indications that these people were murdered simply for their Muslim belief or their Syrian immigrant origin, it makes no sense to allege that was the reason.

        There had to be more motivating him than that.

        Yes, the guy also may have a chemical imbalance, low impulse control, or he may be simply evil. Or yes, it might be that he just hates Muslims, or Muslims who take what he thinks is his parking spot. He should rot in prison for murdering innocent people regardless of what his motive was, and hate crime laws should not be relevant. There are sufficient penalties for violent crimes without charging people with “hate crimes”, which can often be difficult to prove, and even when it can clearly be established that bigotry against a specific group is the motive, why should it matter? A murder is a murder, an assault is an assault. If someone punches me in the nose and then calls me a dirty kike, why should he be subject to more vigorous prosecution and stiffer sentences than if he did just because I resisted when he was trying to mug me? But since these laws exist, there has to be a very high standard of evidence, and this case –so far– doesn’t meet them.

      • annie on February 13, 2015, 12:55 pm

        That assessment was apparently based on testimony from neighbors of the perpetrator and the victims who were aware of the ongoing dispute, as well as a confession by the killer.

        “apparently based on testimony from neighbors”? your framing is strange. it’s probable that when the killer turned himself in he claimed he killed them over a parking dispute. as a result, the police likely sought confirmation of a dispute and queried neighbors regarding that allegation. the neighbors, unless one was present during the confrontation, could not known why the man murdered the victims, only that they were aware that the murderer had ongoing disputes with many neighbors, including the victims, regarding the parking issue. however, since the murderer didn’t murder other people he harassed over their parking habits, including having cars other’s towed numerous times (according to abc news), there’s no evidence per se the murder was related to the parking.

        just because a person demonstrates a repetitive behavior (harassing neighbors regarding parking) doesn’t mean if that person then commits a crime it is in relation to that repetitive behavior. for example, if a serial shoplifter of 20 shops, walks into a store and kills a clerk that he has known for years, it’s not necessarily related to shoplifting. in fact, it’s a very big leap from shoplifting.

        if the man turned himself in he could very well have used his previous history of parking disputes as an excuse. (that might be hard to fathom, that criminals occasionally lie and make excuses for their actions, but it’s actually very very common).

        the Chapel Hill police detectives, who had information that the confrontation resulting in the murders was the result over a dispute over a parking spot.

        if i am not mistaken, the only “information” they had about what caused the murders, was what the murderer told them. neighbors can confirm there was an ongoing dispute re parking, but they can’t claim the murders “was a result” of the parking dispute. and it’s irresponsible to report anything other than the claim of the murderer. a detective who comes to this “assessment” within hours of a confrontation is not doing his/her job.

        why should it matter? A murder is a murder, an assault is an assault. If someone punches me in the nose and then calls me a dirty kike, why should he be subject to more vigorous prosecution…

        that’s a good question. maybe abe foxman should just shut up. maybe the american people shouldn’t be subject to listening to constant allegations of anti semitism. if someone calls you a dirty kike and murders you, should anti semitism even be mentioned as a motive by reporters when reporting the crime? why should it matter? if a kid is bullied at school because he is jewish, why not just report it as a kid being bullied. do you think we should scrap hate crimes altogether?

      • CigarGod on February 13, 2015, 1:12 pm

        “Apparently” based on my annecfotal legal experience…the perp called his attorney…who told him to turn himself in…and tell just part of the story.

      • Mikhael on February 15, 2015, 12:53 am

        Annie Robbins
        February 13, 2015, 12:55 pm

        “apparently based on testimony from neighbors”? ….the neighbors, unless one was present during the confrontation, could not known why the man murdered the victims, only that they were aware that the murderer had ongoing disputes with many neighbors, including the victims, regarding the parking issue.

        Absent hard evidence indicating hatred towards a specific ethnic group, you can’t assume that this was a hate crime against Muslims. In this case, only the killer really knows the reason why he did what he did. (And he may not even know.) The neighbors have confirmed that the man had a violent temper and police found an arsenal, and his Internet footprint was indicative of anger against religion in general. But no, he doesn’t appear to have been motivated by anti-Muslim hate in particular.

        however, since the murderer didn’t murder other people he harassed over their parking habits, including having cars other’s towed numerous times (according to abc news), there’s no evidence per se the murder was related to the parking.

        There’s stronger evidence that it was related to the parking than the fact that they were Muslims. Maybe it was because one of them was chewing gum and he hated people who chewed gum. Nobody knows what his state of mind was except him, absent clear expressions of hate and a stated desire to kill Muslims. I am not saying it was a “random” attack either, as a certain American president recently expressed about the kosher supermarket victims in Paris. http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/white-house-shooting-kosher-market-paris-random/story?id=28871389
        (But really, who knows, maybe the Hyperkacher attack was just random and Coulabaly could just as easily have staged his outrage in a halal market or a Vietnamese restaurant but just randomly chose the kosher market.)

        just because a person demonstrates a repetitive behavior (harassing neighbors regarding parking) doesn’t mean if that person then commits a crime it is in relation to that repetitive behavior. for example, if a serial shoplifter of 20 shops, walks into a store and kills a clerk that he has known for years, it’s not necessarily related to shoplifting. in fact, it’s a very big leap from shoplifting.

        And if the murdered shopkeeper happens to be Hindu, Muslim or Jewish or Asian, it doesn’t follow that the victim was murdered because of his ethnicity or religion.

        if the man turned himself in he could very well have used his previous history of parking disputes as an excuse. (that might be hard to fathom, that criminals occasionally lie and make excuses for their actions, but it’s actually very very common).

        Possibly, since hate crimes laws require a stiffer prosecution and a stiffer sentencing, it would be advantageous to him to claim it wasn’t because of the victims’ religion, but since there doesn’t seem to be any convincing evidence that it was motivated by a hate crime, it would appear to be quite unnecessary in this case.

        if i am not mistaken, the only “information” they had about what caused the murders, was what the murderer told them. neighbors can confirm there was an ongoing dispute re parking, but they can’t claim the murders “was a result” of the parking dispute. and it’s irresponsible to report anything other than the claim of the murderer. a detective who comes to this “assessment” within hours of a confrontation is not doing his/her job.

        They have to investigate every possible motive, that’s true. Since the misguided American hate/bias crimes laws exist, if they find evidence of such a motive, they should present it to the DA/State’s Attorney and leave it up to them if they want to prosecute on that basis. So far, there doesn’t appear to be any evidence that this was murder was due to hatred against people because of their religion. The initial statement that was issued to the press was reflective of that. You’re upset that they’re not jumping the gun like you were.

        that’s a good question. maybe abe foxman should just shut up. maybe the american people shouldn’t be subject to listening to constant allegations of anti semitism.

        I guess you don’t believe in free speech. Abe Foxman has the right to sound his alarms and be wrong, just as Ibrahim Cooper and Al Sharpton do. Most of the American people, and, for that matter, most American Jews are barely aware of who he is. Most people who really pay attention to Abe Foxman are people who have an obsessive fixation with Jews.

        if someone calls you a dirty kike and murders you, should anti semitism even be mentioned as a motive by reporters when reporting the crime? why should it matter? if a kid is bullied at school because he is jewish, why not just report it as a kid being bullied. do you think we should scrap hate crimes altogether?

        Reporters should report on whatever is newsworthy and what their editors tell them will sell newspapers (or attract mouse clicks), not necessarily in that order. And again yes, I personally believe hate crimes laws should be scrapped altogether, although I doubt they ever will be. It’s one of the few things I agree with many libertarians about. You can’t legislate good goodwill and love among all humans by criminally penalizing bigotry and absent hard evidence, they are difficult to prove. It makes sense to have harsh penalties for intentional, premeditated violent attacks against someone’s person and whether a murder or an assault is committed because of prejudice connected to the victim’s religion or ethnicity or to steal their money or over a parking spot shouldn’t matter.

        In Israel, we have ridiculous laws criminalizing “hate speech” too.

      • annie on February 15, 2015, 2:23 am

        So far, there doesn’t appear to be any evidence that this was murder was due to hatred against people because of their religion.

        other than a slew of posting on FB saying he was vehemently anti religion and anti religious people.

      • CigarGod on February 15, 2015, 7:23 am

        That’s a really funny line.

        Most people who really pay attention to Abe Foxman are prople who are obssessed with Jews.

        That would be Jews.

      • Mikhael on February 15, 2015, 8:44 pm

        CigarGod February 15, 2015, 7:23 am
        That’s a really funny line.

        Most people who really pay attention to Abe Foxman are prople who are obssessed with Jews.

        That would be Jews.

        The perception that American Jews in general are self-obsessed with Jews, Judaism, Jewish culture and Israel is far greater than the reality. Sure, some Jews are obsessed and some have a persecution complex due to an awareness of what Jewish history was like for the past 2,000 years. But the reality is, in the USA at least, the most successful Diaspora Jewish community in history, outside of Orthodox circles, the younger generation of American Jews at present is mostly apathetic about Jewish issues and at best , dimly aware of their Jewish identity. It’s about as relevant to them as their shoe size. A generation or two ago, intermarriage between Jews and non-Jews in the US was a rarity,today it’s at about 70%.

        And I’d bet that awareness of who Abe Foxman is is much higher among non-Jewish readers of sites like Mondoweiss than the average strongly Jewishly identified Jew, to say nothing of the typical Jewish undergrad who is dating a Chinese-American and who has barely thought about being Jewish since his Hebrew school graduation. I’m pretty sure that if you walk into an Orthodox synagogue or a kosher restaurant in Brooklyn and ask the first person wearing a kippa what they think about Abe Foxman retiring, you’d get a blank stare from most. And these are the people whose Jewishness is a central element of their lives.. But all of your Annie Robbins types are obsessed with the guy.

      • Mikhael on February 16, 2015, 10:52 pm

        Annie Robbins
        February 15, 2015, 2:23 am

        (Mikhael)

        So far, there doesn’t appear to be any evidence that this was murder was due to hatred against people because of their religion.

        (Annie Robbins) other than a slew of posting on FB saying he was vehemently anti religion and anti religious people.

        Here on Mondoweiss we have posters with names like “ThankgodImAnATheist” who have made statements disparaging religion in general (sometimes justified). But Hicks does not seem to have directed his criticisms particularly against Muslims and was harsher towards fundamentalist Christians. . I’d hate to think that now the standard of evidence for a “hate crime” is publicly expressing opposition to religion and championing atheism.

        All we now can say for sure is that he committed an act of premeditated violence and we know that he had a bad temper and made many people uneasy.

      • annie on February 17, 2015, 10:11 am

        I’d hate to think that now the standard of evidence for a “hate crime” is publicly expressing opposition to religion and championing atheism.

        no one said the standard of evidence for a hate crime is public expression of distain for religious people, because that’s only evidence of hate. but once you add the dead bodies then you have evidence of the crime. a hate crime requires motive and victims, not just motive.

      • Mikhael on February 17, 2015, 11:01 am

        Annie Robbins
        February 17, 2015, 10:11 am
        (Mikhael)
        I’d hate to think that now the standard of evidence for a “hate crime” is publicly expressing opposition to religion and championing atheism.

        (AR) no one said the standard of evidence for a hate crime is public expression of distain for religious people, because that’s only evidence of hate. but once you add the dead bodies then you have evidence of the crime. a hate crime requires motive and victims, not just motive.

        Do you really think there would be the same intense speculation that Hicks’s murder spree was motivated by a general hate against “religious people” if his victims were wearing big, visible crucifixes and known by him to be devout, actively church-attending Catholics? It is true that virulently nativist anti-Catholic bias–comparable in some respects to the fears some Americans have of Islam in general–was formerly widespread throughout the US until the 20th century and this anti-Catholicism held on in most of the South outside Louisiana up until the 1960s–so it’s not impossible that there could be anti-Catholic “hate crimes” in the US, but unlikely in 2015. I will grant that it is possible that the fact the female victims wore hijab made them stand out as religious Muslims–but I really doubt anyone would be putting two-and-two together and claiming it was a hate crime if someone who posted online anti-religion rants killed regularly Mass-attending Catholics. Since many people here indulged in counterfactuals and asserted that if the victims were Jews there would be much more media attention, I will say that it is much more likely that if he killed non-Muslims, whether religious non-Muslims or not, that there would be scant media attention to such an equally cruel event–although I am also willing to concede that when homicide victims are visibly identifiable as Orthodox Jews (as opposed to someone who is merely of Jewish heritage and thus unlikely to be known as Jewish to the killer) then there usually also is some similar speculation that they might have been killed due to a “hate crime” motive. Whatever his motives were–and I’ll even say it’s possible that it was indeed a hate crime–the knee-jerk reactions of many posters here that the story is getting buried by the MSM and any intimations that it was a hate crime are being glossed over are wrong, wrong, wrong.

      • annie on February 17, 2015, 11:49 am

        mikhael, i think it was irresponsible of the mainstream media to not report this heinous crime for many many many hours. i think it was cruel of the chapelhill police to withhold information about the murder to the family of the victims for many many hours as family members were waiting outside. i think it is very problematic that the police put out a statement so soon after the killing, virtually simultaneously with the announcement of the murders, providing the killers (obviously biased) own alibi as the likely cause for the crime based on ‘police investigation’. lots of problems here.

        a formal investigation has just begun and facts will be forthcoming. otherwise there’s a lot of speculation going on here. but one thing is certain (for the reasons i just gave above), the initial msm reports on this story definitely appeared to be incredibly simplified, too simplified .. parking. so no i do not agree with you that many posters here had “knee jerk” reactions. a knee jerk reaction is reports flooding the msm directly after the oklahoma bombing it was a muslim terrorist attack. as americans we are all too familiar with immediate news of a mass murders, not complete silence as news spreads on social media. this crime was covered MUCH differently and by the time it was reported it was delivered with a very irresponsible “explanation” straight from the mouth of the murderer. whereas we’re all to familiar with muslim perpetrators being killed during capture where we never are afforded any explanation for their motive. that’s very very common. so spare us please. we got the signed sealed and delivered package all at once. murder, killer, investigation all wrapped in a neat bow: parking. complete with mock driving lesson on how to park from cbs as if the murder were a road rage incident and not carried out execution style inside the victims homes (we were not even informed in all the first reports the victims were killed in their own home leaving a regular reader to assume they were gunned down in a parking lot).

        so yes, the story was definitely buried. and all your crap theorizing on catholics is nothing more than a distraction. for we all know there would have been immediate screams of demands for condemnations from the entire muslim community by all the usual suspects had these victims been jews. and all we’d have been subject to constant reminders about anti semitism too. hardly a peep of any mention of the radically promoted campaign of incitement against muslims in this country. so spare us please.

      • Mikhael on February 18, 2015, 12:42 am

        Annie Robbins February 17, 2015, 11:49 am
        mikhael, i think it was irresponsible of the mainstream media to not report this heinous crime for many many many hours.

        A few hours is not a long time for a local news story about a homicide to go national in a country that has about 10,000 firearm homicides a year.

        i think it was cruel of the chapelhill police to withhold information about the murder to the family of the victims for many many hours as family members were waiting outside.

        Maybe. Things like this are unfortunately often mishandled.

        i think it is very problematic that the police put out a statement so soon after the killing, virtually simultaneously with the announcement of the murders, providing the killers (obviously biased) own alibi as the likely cause for the crime based on ‘police investigation’. lots of problems here.

        And I think it’s problematic to conclude that it is a hate crime absent any solid evidence or leads. So far that was the only lead they had, so that’s what they announced. If you want to say that they shouldn’t have announced anything at that stage, I’d probably agree with you.

        the initial msm reports on this story definitely appeared to be incredibly simplified, too simplified .. parking.

        Well, at that point the MSM could only report on what the original police statement was, otherwise they’d also be speculating.

        so no i do not agree with you that many posters here had “knee jerk” reactions. a knee jerk reaction is reports flooding the msm directly after the oklahoma bombing it was a muslim terrorist attack.

        As I recall from that period, most mainstream news outlets withheld judgment in the immediate aftermath of the bombing but speculated that it could be Islamist terrorists OR domestic extremists (it made sense to speculate that it could have been Muslims as the WTC was bombed by them only two years earlier), but right-wing talk radio as well as many Internet posters–this was in 1995, and while the term “blogging” hadn’t yet been invented–use of the Internet among the general public was gaining momentum and people commented on Usenet–had made up their minds that it was Muslim terrorists. So of course people jumped to conclusions, but I recall people chiding the “MSM” for being too PC and not jumping on the bandwagon.

        as americans we are all too familiar with immediate news of a mass murders, not complete silence as news spreads on social media.

        Except there wasn’t complete silence. The murders happened at 5:15 pm, it’s true they didn’t make the 6:30 pm evening national news–but I think most multiple homicides are not reported within such a quick time frame on the national news and it takes something extraordinarily horrific in a country inured to gun violence, like a school shooting a la Columbine or Middletown CT, or, in this case, three Muslim-American dental students to make the national nightly news. That’s why it was all over the news the next day, after the Muslim identity of the victims was known. If they were non-Muslims, it’s unlikely we’d know anything of this tragedy.

        we’re all to familiar with muslim perpetrators being killed during capture where we never are afforded any explanation for their motive.>,and that’s very very common. so spare us please.

        It’s very common that a perpetrator who engages in an armed standoff with law authorities will end up dead, it’s very common that a suspect who surrenders will be taken alive. Yes, we’re familiar with Muslim perpetrators who try to shoot their way out and go down in a blaze of glory like Mohammed Merah in Tolouse and the Koachi Brothers in Paris, we’re also familiar with Muslim perpetrators who have surrendered and were taken alive to recount their crimes, like Dzokhar Tsarnaev of Boston Marathon bombing fame and Nidal Malik Hasan in Fort Hood.

        and all your crap theorizing on catholics is nothing more than a distraction.

        If someone were to leap to the conclusion that three churchgoing Catholics who were victims of a slaying were killed because of an anti-religious hate-crime motive solely because their killer expressed anti-religious sentiments online, indeed it would be crap.
        But I guess it must always be a hate crime if a non-Muslim kills a Muslim, even when there is no evidence to suggest this. Why isn’t it enough to mourn the senseless slaying of three promising young American citizens by an angry neighbor–isn’t that sad enough, bad enough? They must be transformed into martyrs of anti-Muslim bigotry–whether the evidence is there or not–now they are shuhada al Islam. If hard evidence -or even soft evidence–was provided that this was due to anti-Muslim bigotry, I’d be the first to denounce it as such. Meanwhile all a sensible, compassionate person can do is lament yet another casualty of American gun violence.

        for we all know there would have been immediate screams of demands for condemnations from the entire muslim community by all the usual suspects had these victims been jews.

        No, I don’t know that. First, I don’t demand that every Muslim and the community as a whole immediately denounce the outrages committed in the name of their religion by so many fanatics who claim to be Muslims. I assume that my Muslim friends, neighbors and coworkers, and the mainstream Muslim community as a whole, is repulsed by Islamist terror until I see evidence that they support it.
        Second, we have seen acts of violence committed by Muslims against Jews in the USA that received far less coverage and media attention. I have already said I don’t automatically assume that every time a Jew is harmed by a Muslim that it is always due to anti-Semitism–Jews can get mugged, stabbed or shot by Muslim perps- without it having anything to do with jihad–and in Israel, at least, there are Jewish robbers, drug dealers, and car thieves who have probably robbed and shot Muslim victims–in fact Jewish criminals and Muslim criminals in Israel often work together and can be equal-opportunity victimizers of Jewish and Muslim citizens of Israel. My cousin in Israel was shot by a Muslim armed robber–he was just a junkie who wanted money for his fix, not a terrorist. But leaving aside ordinary criminality, there have been at least two occasions in recent years where Jews were targeted by anti-Semitic Muslim terrorists deliberately because they were Jews. I don’t think you can claim that the Seattle Jewish Federation shooting in 2006 was a random incident, or a mere armed robbery gone wrong. It was a deliberate attack by a Muslim on a visibly Jewish institution. And to do my Google experiment again, which Bornajoo claimed didn’t stack up, when you put “Seattle Jewish Federation shooting” in Google you get only 40,900 hits. “Chapel Hill Muslim shooting” gets 19,000,000+ hits. This was a clear case of anti-Semitism, a hate crime (and I will still go on the record as opposing hate crime laws) yet it was underreported in comparison to the Chapel Hill murders. Answer honestly, do you even remember the incident? Do you remember reportage of thousands of people coming to the funeral of the Jewish victim,or candlelight vigils, and statements by the President? (It could be GW Bush mentioned it, I see no web references to it.) Oh, and the Muslim perpetrator was taken alive too. Other cases that come to mind are the El Al ticket counter shooting, which I mentioned earlier, and the 1994 Brooklyn Bridge shooting in which a Lebanese Muslim shot up a van of hassidic students in revenge for the Hebron massacre committed by Barukh Goldshteyn. (the killer, Rashid Baz, was also taken alive when he gave himself up–an option that was apparently unpalatable to Merah, Coulabaliy and the Kouachi Bros.) I vividly remember the Brooklyn Bridge shooting, my brother is a member of the same hassidic sect and lives near the victim’s family’s house. As a New Yorker I frequently pass the sign memorializing the teenage victim, Ari Halberstam, on the bridge on-ramp near where it took place. I know it got a lot of coverage here in NY and some national coverage as well, but still Google yields a mere 11,8000 results when you search “Brooklyn Bridge Ari Halberstam Rashid Baz”–the place where the shooting occurred, the name of the shooter and his victim, in the website of
        The New York Times the paper of record in the city where the Brooklyn Bridge shooting occurred, there are just 20 stories mentioning the incident, original coverage and periodic followup, over the past 20 years.
        http://query.nytimes.com/search/sitesearch/?action=click&contentCollection&region=TopBar&WT.nav=searchWidget&module=SearchSubmit&pgtype=Homepage#/brooklyn+Bridge+rashid+Baz++Ari+Halberstam/since1851/allresults/1/allauthors/oldest/

        When you go to NYTimes.com and type in “Chapel Hill Hicks abu Salha Barakat”–the names of the city where the killings took place, the names of the killer, and the names of his victims you get 20 stories in the NYtimes.com site that have accumulated over the past week.

        http://query.nytimes.com/search/sitesearch/?action=click&contentCollection&region=TopBar&WT.nav=searchWidget&module=SearchSubmit&pgtype=Homepage#/Chapel+Hill+Hicks+abu+Salha+Barakat/since1851/allresults/1/allauthors/oldest/

        And you still keep on claiming that attacks where Muslims kill Jews are hyped by the MSM while attacks where Muslims are killed are swept under the carpet. Please.

        and all we’d have been subject to constant reminders about anti semitism too. hardly a peep of any mention of the radically promoted campaign of incitement against muslims in this country. so spare us please.

        Knock it off, lots of the mainstream media coverage is giving a platform to those who speculate that the killer may have been inspired by the likes of Bill Maher et al.

        http://www.npr.org/2015/02/15/386406810/some-see-extreme-anti-theism-as-motive-in-n-c-killings

        http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/12/opinion/khan-chapel-hill-shooting/

        http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/02/11/chapel_hill_shooting_how_muslim_americans_are_responding_to_the_unc_attack.html

      • annie on February 18, 2015, 12:17 pm

        don’t tell me to knock it off. we’ve had over a decade of incitement against muslims in the country ever since 9/11, a couple current news articles doesn’t erase that.

        i don’t have time to respond to all your allegations. write shorter comments.

  2. jenin on February 11, 2015, 11:05 am

    this is tragic and horrible.
    At first, I was reluctant to assume that the victims’ faith was the reason Craig Hicks killed them. But on second thought, in particular given his public anti-religion stance (not that I have a problem with that — I am an atheist myself) it seems unlikely to me he would have killed these innocent young people if they were not clearly Muslims. Just like it is hard to believe that Michael Dunn would have shot those young men in Florida over playing loud music if they were not black. Maybe their faith (and in Dunn’s case, the race) wasn’t what precipitated the encounter, but it seems extremely likely it is the reason for the bloody and horrendous result. I hope that Hicks is sentenced to life without parole, and I hope that the media takes this as seriously as it would if these were three Jewish students. And that this causes the media to reflect on Islamaphobia in the West, as it certainly would antisemitism were the victims Jewish.

    • Daniel Rich on February 11, 2015, 7:12 pm

      @ Jenin Younes,

      Q: At first, I was reluctant to assume that the victims’ faith was the reason Craig Hicks killed them.

      R: This question arises from a CSI pov: it is know that murderers and serial killers tend to not name their victim/s by name [like in your ‘victims’]. Do you have a particular reason for naming the killer by name [Craig Hicks]?

      • Ellen on February 12, 2015, 4:38 am

        @Daniel Rich:

        Huh???

      • jenin on February 12, 2015, 10:27 am

        @Daniel Rich–yes, the reason I used Craig Hicks’s name but not the victims is I am/was at work, there are three (not one) victims with more difficult to spell names than Craig Hicks, I didn’t have the time to look up and type their names, so I was going for efficiency. Maybe we shouldn’t always be attacking each other for little things like this when we are more or less on the same side. I don’t really see that as fostering productive dialogue.

      • jenin on February 12, 2015, 10:36 am

        Ellen, he’s just trying to make a thing out of the fact I used the perp’s name but didn’t name the victims. Some people apparently get some sort of kick out of criticizing every perceived misstep on the part of others. Really silly, IMHO. Particularly given the fact that I have an Arab Muslim parent, and countless Arab Muslim relatives, who have been the victims of Western and Israeli violence, so I am really the last person to think the identities of the victims are not important.

  3. lysias on February 11, 2015, 11:15 am

    I couldn’t remember seeing a story about these murders in the copy of this morning’s Washington Post that is delivered outside my door, so I just checked again. Sure enough, the story is not there.

    According to this AlJazeera report, the shooting occurred at 5:15 PM yesterday, so there was plenty of time for it to make the paper. And Democracy Now! this morning reported not only the murders, but the fact that a suspect had been arrested.

    According to AlJazeera, Chapel Hill police say the murders were motivated by a neighbor dispute about a parking space. Imagine!

    • jenin on February 11, 2015, 11:18 am

      well, they weren’t Jewish, or white Americans, so who really cares.

      and this would confuse things for a lot of people because Muslims always have to be the bad guys, committing acts of terrorism. So better just not to address it at all.

      • Kathleen on February 11, 2015, 4:55 pm

        Terribly sad and true

      • Mikhael on February 12, 2015, 10:53 am

        Jenin Younes February 11, 2015, 11:18 am
        well, they weren’t Jewish, or white Americans, so who really cares.

        They look white to me. (At least the male victim does.) Many Muslims (and certainly most Arabs) are white, you know. And obviosuly, it’s a major news story,it made all the network news, so people are concerned.

        And this would confuse things for a lot of people because Muslims always have to be the bad guys, committing acts of terrorism. So better just not to address it at all.

        The motive for his crime may very well have been anti-Muslim hatred, or it may be because of a parking dispute. All indications are that the killer was vehemently anti-religious in general and didn;t have a particular animus against Muslims, per se.

      • annie on February 12, 2015, 11:44 am

        They look white to me. (At least the male victim does.)

        it’s interesting you should say that because i can see no discernible difference in skin color between him and his wife and her sister. do you think it is perhaps a visual or psychological reaction to the hijab that may color your view?

        All indications are that the killer …. didn;t have a particular animus against Muslims, per se.

        really? so his FB rantings re 9/11, you think he may have been referring to jews, christians or what? did you read his FB rantings? it says in the article “There are also multiple posts directly referring to Muslims”, so what does that mean “didn;t have a particular animus against Muslims, per se.“? would you say the same thing about bill maher and sam harris, or …. yourself for that matter?

      • jenin on February 12, 2015, 12:32 pm

        Mikhael, I wasn’t talking literally. Many African Americans, for instance, appear white, but that doesn’t mean they do not identify with African Americans and their experiences. Or that they are not perceived as “other” because of other “differences”, including cultural background.

        regardless of actual skin tone, I think it’s pretty obvious neither the perp nor the media considers the three victims simply white Americans, but Muslim Americans. Thus that identity is critical to discussion

      • Mooser on February 12, 2015, 4:18 pm

        The alleged perpetrator said he didn’t hate good Muslims, only the bad ones who don’t park where they are supposed to. You know, extremists. Ever read what the Koran says about parallel parking?

      • Mikhael on February 13, 2015, 9:55 am

        Annie Robbins February 12, 2015, 11:44 am
        Me: They look white to me. (At least the male victim does.)

        it’s interesting you should say that because i can see no discernible difference in skin color between him and his wife and her sister. do you think it is perhaps a visual or psychological reaction to the hijab that may color your view?

        Certainly the hijab doesn’t “color” my view (pun intended) because I know so many hijab-wearing fair-skinned Arabic and Muslim women. I remember well one young Muslimah in college (a former lab partner who I had a bit of a crush on in fact) who came from a Lebanese-American family who had strawberry blonde hair that she proudly displayed until she became more religious over summer break and returned the fall semester sporting hejab.
        In the photo I see, the late Mr Barakat looks a bit lighter-skinned than his wife and sister-in-law–but it may be the shadow his taller body is casting, or the mortarboard the late Ms. abu Salha was wearing . But I would describe these innocent murder victims as olive-skinned white people of Syrian-Arabic extraction, just as I have approximately the same skin tones. (I have similar coloring to them and I am certainly white–and btw my darker olive skin comes my Ashkenazic mother’s side, not from my father’s side of the family,, which was of partial Syrian-Jewish extraction and mostly light-skinned and ginger-haired). I don’t think their (or my) skin color is an important issue and I would never mention it in posts if I didn’t find the the frequent evocation of it here and elsewhere in reference to Arabic-speaking people of any religion, or Muslims of various national backgrounds-or even Mizrahi Jews (and I am of Mizrahi background myself) –all people who come in a variety of skin tones–as essentially “people of color”–as if that perceived hue is what defines them (us) and bestows “victim” status.

        All indications are that the killer …. didn;t have a particular animus against Muslims, per se.

        really? so his FB rantings re 9/11, you think he may have been referring to jews, christians or what? did you read his FB rantings?

        I saw screenshots of them , as his Facebook page appears to be down now, but from what I have seen they are more militantly atheist, and from what I have seen, he doesn’t single Islam or Muslims out to a greater extent than Christianity.

        it says in the article “There are also multiple posts directly referring to Muslims”, so what does that mean “didn;t have a particular animus against Muslims, per se.“?

        Devout Muslims practice and believe in a theistic religion, so a harsh atheist critic who heaps scorn on believing Christians or Jews would also, naturally, mock believing Muslims.

        would you say the same thing about bill maher and sam harris, or …. yourself for that matter?

        From what I have read of Harris or seen of Maher , both of them have a flawed understanding of Islam and of religion in general. Maher is a simpleton and a bit of a demagogue and from what I have seen of him, he just paints Islam in general as an irredeemably violent and hateful creed–but Harris, who is smarter than Maher, paints a more nuanced portrait and argues that while the Quran–just like the Torah–has verses and passages that could be interpreted as endorsing violence (mixed with more pacifistic verses) against non-believers or “sinners”–but that there are presently more fanatic Muslims who use the Quran to justify violence against kuffar than there are Jews who use the Torah to justify violence against goyyim or non-believing Jews. He’s definitely right that there are more Muslims who endorse violence in the name of their religion than there are Jews who endorse violence in the name of their religious traditions, but I don’t believe, a Harris or Maher seem to think, that the logical extension of being a devout Muslim is that one must share the opinions of the fanatic Islamist extremists who literally take the Quran as as license to kill, but there is clearly a significant minority who do believe that.

        or …. yourself for that matter?

        I definitely wouldn’t say it about myself, as I have no animus against Muslims qua Muslims. I have a bemused but respectful attitude towards people who literally believe in Islamic doctrines like the inerrancy of the Quran or that an illiterate shepherd wrote it down when the Angel Gabriel pushed his hand to write these prophecies through a miracle, but I feel the same way about some Orthodox Jews who believe the Torah is a literal word of God or that the world was created in 6 days, etc. As someone raised in an observant Jewish family I feel I have a lot in common with people raised in observant Muslim families, because so many of the rituals and practices of observant Jews are similar to those of observant Muslims. Although I was fortunate enough to free myself from the yoke of Jewish religious practices and belief as a young adult (without divorcing myself from a connection with my Jewish nationality), my upbringing in a kosher, Hebrew-speaking , Middle Eastern immigrant family, where I was made to pray 3 times a day by my father, still resonates with me, so of course I feel an affinity to people brought up in Muslim families in America whose parents made them check the labels on the food to make sure it’s halal just as I had to make sure it was kasher, or whose fathers made them pray 5 times a day, So no, I have no hate towards Muslims or Islam per se, and you’ll never find me expressing such sentiments online or in person.

      • annie on February 13, 2015, 3:29 pm

        I would never mention it in posts if I didn’t find the the frequent evocation of it here and elsewhere in reference to Arabic-speaking people of any religion….as if that perceived hue is what defines them (us) and bestows “victim” status.

        you think there’s a frequent evocation here referencing the hue of arab skin color defining and bestowing them victim status? hmm, strange. i guess i missed that.

        He’s definitely right that there are more Muslims who endorse violence in the name of their religion than there are Jews who endorse violence in the name of their religious traditions

        definitely? i doubt it, not by comparable percentages.

        So no, I have no hate towards Muslims or Islam per se

        and i didn’t ask if you did now did i.

        so a harsh atheist critic who heaps scorn on believing Christians or Jews would also, naturally, mock believing Muslims. – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2015/02/americans-murdered-carolina/comment-page-1#comment-746553

        specifically, i didn’t read him heaping scorn on christians or jews although he may have. it’s one thing to say one if an equal opportunity offender wrt the religious. it’s another thing to say it after you’ve killed one and not the other. and in maher’s case, he claims to scorn them all equally but in his movie he didn’t go near addressing violent jewish extremists, now did he.

    • Kay24 on February 11, 2015, 11:37 am

      This article supports the obvious, that Muslims being killed does not get the same attention as others who are killed by Muslims. They refer to it as Western media bigotry.

      http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2015/02/chapel-hill-shooting-western-media-bigotry-150211083909613.html

  4. Kay24 on February 11, 2015, 11:23 am

    This is such a sad and tragic event. Three beautiful young kids died for no reason, but because of their religion. Their life was full of promise one minute, and they were brutally killed the next.
    Perhaps the killer wanted to prove to Bill Maher that Atheists murdered too. I wonder what that Islamaphobe will now say, after all he kept repeating the same drivel about Islam being a violent religion, and that Atheists do not resort to violence.

    My heart goes out to the families, and hope the response from those who are shocked by this senseless crime, will ease some of their pain.

    • jenin on February 11, 2015, 11:27 am

      Kay, I mentioned in a post above that a few weeks ago Bill Maher mocked students holding signs reading “Islamophobia kills.” I’d like to say I hope this prompts him to rethink that, but I think like most fundamentalists, he will interpret the facts to fit his beliefs (this was the act of a mad men whose violence wasn’t caused by his belief system, blahblahblah) rather than perhaps revise his beliefs to fit the evidence.

      • Kay24 on February 11, 2015, 9:05 pm

        Jenin Younes, unfortunately Maher cannot think intelligently when it comes to Islam and Muslims. He has shown hatred for Islam and ignorance every time he comes up with an attack against ALL Muslims. We should keep in mind he is a comedian and a biased one.

        He will focus on the parking dispute and harp on that.

      • jenin on February 12, 2015, 10:31 am

        yes, for sure. I am curious what he says about it tomorrow. But I know it will very likely really piss me off.

        I was thinking about his stupid comment about how Islamophobia didn’t kill. Imagine if someone said antisemitism doesn’t kill, he’d be laughed off stage.

  5. Citizen on February 11, 2015, 11:38 am

    Nothing on this in US cable or network News?

  6. piotr on February 11, 2015, 12:20 pm

    Actually, CNN and several major news outlets covered the story. From what I could figure out, the murderer had a “simmering parking dispute” with the victims and disparaged their faith in social media. The arc of causality is hard to determine. Perhaps the bitterness of the parking dispute with Muslim neighbors prompted both the murders and hateful remarks. Or prejudice against the Muslim drove him to pick idiotic fights about the parking, but ultimately, to murders? And what was that dispute? One photo showed the murderer on an all-terrain-vehicle, suggesting that he had several vehicles.

    The fact is that parking disputes can be lethal. Several years ago there was a meeting of clerics of several religions in Beirut, and body guards of one of them had a little battle with body guards of another, Sunni versus Shia, with two dead, and it was followed by reconciliation meetings, and explanations that it was a parking dispute. Religion/ideology motivated killings in the region seem more frequent, but they usually have different methods and weapons (car bombs etc.). However, what I have described happened during attempts to park in the same spot, with a body guard in that spot waiting for his person to arrive, but the killing in Chapel Hill was not like that.

  7. a blah chick on February 11, 2015, 12:27 pm

    I’ll tell you exactly what Maher, will say: “it was just one lone nut with no affiliations to anyone. Hey, why should I be responsible for what a ‘fan’ does? Since when am I able to control the actions of others?”

    And after he says that he will get all smug and self righteous. Complete lack of self-awareness.

    • lysias on February 11, 2015, 12:55 pm

      Maher got in trouble and lost his job for a while after he said on air that he didn’t think the 9/11 hijackers were cowardly. Just as George Wallace decided, after he lost an election for being less anti-black than an opponent, that he was never going to let another politician “outnigger” him, I suspect Maher decided that his job required being Islamophobic.

    • Kathleen on February 11, 2015, 4:53 pm

      Although you know that if these three women were three Jewish ladies Maher would go ballistic. He is a bigot when it comes to Muslims…a to his core bigot.

      • Kay24 on February 11, 2015, 10:44 pm

        Reza Aslan made a great statement when he said that Maher is not sophisticated when it comes to Islam. It shows.

      • jenin on February 12, 2015, 10:44 am

        yes, I was thinking that both Maher and Sam Harris really show that their supposedly fair critique of religion is BS by their politics when it comes to Palestine/Israel. Both bend over backward and make the most illogical arguments to justify israeli violence (basically boiling down to Israelis are fighting this existential evil — Islam — so if they have to kill and ethnically cleanse some Palestinians, it’s ok). I think it shows that, at heart, they are simply bigots, no better than the fox news crowd. Actually, worse, because they masquerade as liberals who care about human rights.

    • Daniel Rich on February 11, 2015, 7:25 pm

      @ abc,

      But Bill ‘Tat Ta Ta Taaa Duhm’ Mahler Maher.still has a plan ‘B’ to fall back on, aka ‘go tribal.’

      He will turn this into him being the victim of all this and the killer giving him a bad rap/name.

      It’s like getting ‘fired’ the Jewish way

  8. RobertB on February 11, 2015, 12:45 pm

    Just think about what if these 3 murdered youths were white Americans, Jewish, Afro Americans…etc…and the killer had a moslem/arabic name?

    CNN, FAUX News, MSNBC, NBC, CBS, ABC…and the rest of them 24 hours a day, non-stop…foaming Islamophobia…Islamic terrorism…moslem terrorist(s) … and on and on…

    And yet almost nothing comes out from the “bought MSM journalists” regarding this horrific crime!!!

    • Mikhael on February 12, 2015, 11:14 am

      RobertB February 11, 2015, 12:45 pm
      Just think about what if these 3 murdered youths were white Americans, Jewish, Afro Americans…etc…and the killer had a moslem/arabic name?

      Yeah, just imagine that. Except Muslim murders of Jews and attacks on Jewish institutions in the USA received far less coverage

      That’s why when you type “Naveed Afzal Haq Seattle shooting” into Google, referring to the the Muslim-American who attacked the Jewish Federation offices in Seattle and murdered and wounded Jews and non-Jews there in 2006, you’ll only get about 5,720 results

      https://www.google.com/search?q=Naveed+Afzal+Haq&oq=Naveed+Afzal+Haq&aqs=chrome..69i57.719j0j4&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8#q=Naveed+Afzal+Haq+seattle+shooting

      Or try “Hesham Mohamed Hadayet LAX shooting”

      (Referring to the Muslim-American gentleman who shot up the El Al ticket counter in Los Angeles Airport and murdered two people, including Victoria Hen (a distant cousin of mine and a member of a family that has lived in Galilee for centuries)), and you get only 2,060 Google hits.

      https://www.google.com/search?q=el+al+lax+shooting&oq=el+al+lax+shooting&aqs=chrome..69i57.4143j0j9&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8#q=Hesham+Mohamed+Hadayet+lax+shooting

      But type in “Craig Hicks Chapel Hill shooting”

      https://www.google.com/search?q=craig+hicks&oq=craig+hicks&aqs=chrome..69i57.2367j0j9&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8#q=craig+hicks+chapel+hill+shooting

      and you get 4,910,000 results.

      Contrary to the allegations being made here, the media is paying far more attention to Craig Hicks’s unspeakable crime (whatever his motive may have been–it is too early to tell) than they did to the clearly anti-Jewish attacks perpetrated by Afzal Haq and Hadayet.

      • Bornajoo on February 12, 2015, 3:37 pm

        @Mikhael
        “Contrary to the allegations being made here, the media is paying far more attention to Craig Hicks’s unspeakable crime (whatever his motive may have been–it is too early to tell) than they did to the clearly anti-Jewish attacks perpetrated by Afzal Haq and Hadayet.”

        I’m afraid this argument doesn’t stack up. You are using a Google search to determine the press penetration and this is not possible if you choose 3 different examples from 3 different moments of history. The further you go back, the less results you will get. This is because Google has only been around for around 15 years and its search engines pick up relevant info from other websites. These other websites have been growing exponentially so the further back you go, the lower the results as there were so many fewer sources each year you go back

        Something that happens today will automatically gather a much higher number of results simply because Google has been able to search through a much larger number of websites that carry that news. So there is no point using 3 examples from different dates. If you did the same experiment with the 3 events that happened in the very same year then it might make sense. For example if you put in a search that says “Palestinians kill 5 Jews in Jerusalem” you get back nearly 12 million results. However if you put in “Ma’alot Massacre” where my first cousin was killed in the 70’s you only get back 585,000 results. However that doesn’t mean that this event was under reported. It had huge media attention at that time but that was long before the internet age.

        So the argument simply doesn’t stack up. Put in Charlie Hebdo and you get 75 million results. Put in “Jews killed in Paris” and you get nearly 11 million.

      • Mikhael on February 13, 2015, 8:39 am

        Bornajoo
        February 12, 2015, 3:37 pm
        I’m afraid this argument doesn’t stack up. You are using a Google search to determine the press penetration and this is not possible if you choose 3 different examples from 3 different moments of history….. These other websites have been growing exponentially so the further back you go, the lower the results as there were so many fewer sources each year you go back

        The Seattle shooting occurred in 2006, not the antediluvian early days of the Internet, and there were certainly thousands of mainstream media news outlets with a Web presence at the time of that incident for Google’s search spiders to link to. It simply received less coverage than this recent Chapel Hill tragedy. You can also check the New York Times’s search page, plug in the name of the killer (Naveed Afzal Haq) and see that only 7 brief stories were written about the event between 2006 -2009 but so far, only 2 days after the NC shootings, the NYT has published 4 stories about it. I deliberately cited the shootings at the Jewish center in Seattle and the EL Al/LAX ticket counter hootings because I remember when they occurred (particularly as I am distantly related to one of the LAX victims) and I noticed at the time that the coverage was relatively scant. There is no doubt that the Chapel Hill murders are a terrible crime and apparently three good people were taken from the world in an act of heinous violence. The killer may indeed have been motivated by anti-Muslim bigotry, but since we don’t know his mens rea, absent hard evidence, such as verbal or written expressions of anti-Muslim hatred, specifically targeting Muslim institutions such as mosques (as opposed to individuals who happen to be Muslim), or a Web search history or maps detailing the location of Muslim institutions, it’s inappropriate to allege that anti-Muslim hate was the motive. Contrary to what is being alleged here, the killings are not being glossed over or ignored and are certainly receiving extensive coverage in the mass media. If you want to do another side-by-side comparison, you can also look up the coverage of the killing of a Chabad rabbi in Miami this past Rosh HaShana by Googling “Rabbi Joseph Raksin killing”, and you get approximately 40,000 Google hits far fewer than you get by entering the surnames of the North Carolina victims, which followed by the word “killing” yields about 300,000 hits only two days after the event. It should be noted that the rabbi’s family members and Jewish community activists also made known their belief that his murder was the result of anti-Jewish “hate crime”, despite the similar lack of proof. Nevertheless, it received much less coverage and seems to have already been forgotten, but I predict we will be hearing a lot more about the Chapel Hill murders in the year to come. I am not saying that the Chapel Hill murders are not a newsworthy event, nor am I saying that a “hate crime” motive should be ruled out (although I believe that hate crime prosecutions are wrongheaded and unnecessary), but I am saying that the belief I see expressed by most of the MW partisans here, that the story is getting short shrift because the victims were Muslim is simply preposterous. If anything, it’s getting played up due to their religion.

      • Bornajoo on February 14, 2015, 12:04 pm

        @Mikhael

        “….but I am saying that the belief I see expressed by most of the MW partisans here, that the story is getting short shrift because the victims were Muslim is simply preposterous. If anything, it’s getting played up due to their religion.”

        It still doesn’t stack up. If you put a search in for “rabbi murdered in Miami” you get a few hundred thousand hits and a lot more than most murders in Miami. Even the ADL agreed hat it wasn’t am anti semitic attack but a robbery gone wrong. And the ADL would be the first to say it was an AS attack. I don’t believe that you can measure this by Google hits. I’m sorry to use a worn out cliche but …apples and pears

        Let’s look at the facts. These 3 young Muslims were EXECUTED. Just like the Charlie Hebdo people were and the people in the supermarket were; executed. It’s completely different to a robbery gone wrong in Miami which does unfortunately have a fairly high mugging and murder rate.

        Let’s look at WHO would be most likely to kill 3 young Muslims like this. well to be honest, it would most likely be a hate filled redneck type just like this guy!

        And who is most likely to kill Jews? Well most likely it would be a self-styled Jihadist.

        So what you are saying Mikhael is that if a young Muslim guy executed in the same way, 3 young Jews but his wife and the police were claiming it was nothing to do with a hate crime but it was actually all about a parking issue, you would just go along with that?

        Would you really believe it? Would you? Come on please…I know what the vast majority of my own family would think and say. and my cousins in Israel and most other Jews I know on this planet.

        When this story first broke I didn’t even get a whiff of it here in the UK. I had to read about it for the first time on MW. It only started catching up to the coverage and analysis after the first 24 hours.

        So when you say “if anything it’s getting played up due to their religion” you know full well that if this was 3 Jews murdered in the very same circumstances and the young Jihadist’s wife and police tried to claim it was over a parking issue we wouldn’t be having this conversation. Would you still say it was being “played up due to their religion”?

        I hope we don’t have to find out

      • Mikhael on February 15, 2015, 9:01 pm

        Bornajoo
        February 14, 2015, 12:04 pm
        @Mikhael

        “….but I am saying that the belief I see expressed by most of the MW partisans here, that the story is getting short shrift because the victims were Muslim is simply preposterous. If anything, it’s getting played up due to their religion.”

        It still doesn’t stack up. If you put a search in for “rabbi murdered in Miami” you get a few hundred thousand hits and a lot more than most murders in Miami. Even the ADL agreed hat it wasn’t am anti semitic attack but a robbery gone wrong. And the ADL would be the first to say it was an AS attack. I don’t believe that you can measure this by Google hits. I’m sorry to use a worn out cliche but …apples and pears

        I thought I was pretty clear that I don’t think there was any evidence that the murder of the rabbi in Miami was due to anti-Semitism (contrary to what my Chabadnik brother believes), but that many people in the community, especially the Chabad-Lubavitch sect, believe it was. As to the ADL, I am not one of its biggest fans for different reasons– but it would not hesitate to condemn a clear instance of anti-Muslim attack. ADL has also routinely denounced bigotry against Islam such as Pamela Geller’s organizatiion.

        http://www.adl.org/civil-rights/discrimination/c/anti-muslim-bigotry.html

        Let’s look at the facts. These 3 young Muslims were EXECUTED. Just like the Charlie Hebdo people were and the people in the supermarket were; executed. It’s completely different to a robbery gone wrong in Miami which does unfortunately have a fairly high mugging and murder rate.

        The method in which the killings of these promising young people was carried out shows that the murders were premeditated and done in cold blood and would probably impeach a defense argument that it was a result of a crime of passion or manslaughter; but it doesn’t address motive, does it?I would agree that if the victims were found with pages of the Quran wrapped in pig entrails near their body, or anti-Muslim grafitti scrawled near the bodies, that would be evidence of anti-Muslim hate, but that’s not the case.

        Let’s look at WHO would be most likely to kill 3 young Muslims like this. well to be honest, it would most likely be a hate filled redneck type just like this guy!

        Now you’re using prejudicial language and stereotyping against a cultural/ethnic group that lives in the American South. If I believed in hate speech laws, I’d have to call you out on that. But from what is known about this guy so far, while it seems as if he fits a few stereotypes–white (check); Southerner(check); gun-nut (check), he doesn’t match other stereotypes. Yes, he reputedly had a bad temper (the rednecks I have come across in my life met tended to be mellow dudes, even if they were gun nuts and liked huntin’), so I don’t know if that checks; he also was a secular fundamentalist–most Southern rednecks are stereotyped as Christian fundamentalists, so that doesn’t match up. So the overall picture we are getting is of a jerk with violent tendencies and too-easy access to weapons (which is a plague in America), but not an anti-Muslim bigot.

        http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/13/us/chapel-hill-neighbors-say-they-felt-threatened-by-man-held-in-killings.html?_r=0

        And if there was evidence that he was motivated by anti-Muslim hate, the US media would certainly be making a big deal of it, they are doing it even without any such clear evidence.

        And who is most likely to kill Jews? Well most likely it would be a self-styled Jihadist.

        Not always Muslims. Still plenty of white supremacists, neo-Nazi types who have attacked Jews and Jewish-associated institutions in the USA in recent years

        http://www.jta.org/1999/07/05/life-religion/features/behind-the-headlines-chicagos-jewish-community-shaken-after-shooting-rampage

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles_Jewish_Community_Center_shooting

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles_Jewish_Community_Center_shooting

        So what you are saying Mikhael is that if a young Muslim guy executed in the same way, 3 young Jews but his wife and the police were claiming it was nothing to do with a hate crime but it was actually all about a parking issue, you would just go along with that?

        Totally depends. If there was evidence of a young Muslim guy being associated with known jihadist groups, if he had a social media footprint of anti-Semitic statements, photos of himself in front of the al Qaeda flag, violent threats against Jews, etc., if many of his neighbors and acquaintances said he frequently referred negatively to Jews and said the world would be better off if they were all dead, if the cops found printouts of Google Maps listing all the synagogues and Jewish Community Centers and the quickest escape routes from those places to the airport, and if he attacked Jewish institutions, or Jewish-owned businesses where many Jews were known to congregate–like a kosher supermarket on Erev Shabbat–then yes, I think then there might be evidence that such a hypothetical person was motivated by hatred against Jews. If a Muslim attacked a Jewish org., like the case in Seattle I referred to, or the El AL ticket counter, or a kosher supermarket in Paris, it would seem not be a random target; pretty clear, innit? But no, absent any evidence such as that which I’ve just listed, you can’t assume that every instance of a Muslim murdering a Jew was motivated by anti-Semitism. It could just as easily be a robbery gone wrong or anger over a parking spot. And unless you find evidence that this Hicks guy expressed hatred against Muslims or made threats against them or targeted mosques or Islamic community centers, or was planning to kill everyone in a hallal butcher shop, then really all of this insinuations that he killed these people because they were Muslims is empty speculation.
        And let’s say they find significant evidence that he killed them specifically because of anti-Muslim bias, he should he should be prosecuted and punished for his evil deed and not the negative Islamophobic “feelings” that may have caused him to commit his crime because hate crimes laws are rubbish anyway.

        When this story first broke I didn’t even get a whiff of it here in the UK. I had to read about it for the first time on MW. It only started catching up to the coverage and analysis after the first 24 hours.

        I’m pretty sure MW didn’t break the story. Even in this instant Internet age, it takes time for stories to gather momentum across the pond.

        So when you say “if anything it’s getting played up due to their religion” you know full well that if this was 3 Jews murdered in the very same circumstances and the young Jihadist’s wife and police tried to claim it was over a parking issue we wouldn’t be having this conversation. Would you still say it was being “played up due to their religion”?

        Again, there would have to be evidence that the perpetrator was a Jihadist. And again, no, I don’t believe every Muslim is a jihadist, and not every redneck is an anti-Muslim bigot or a xenophobe.
        And yes, I agree that many Jews and Israelis will jump to the conclusion that when a Muslim kills a Jew it’s always because of jihadi motives, whether in an act of premeditated homicide or heat-of-the-moment, but of course it’s not always the case.
        I have a cousin in Israel who was shot (and survived, fortunately) during a robbery of a kiosk in Eilat about 20 years ago. Ironically, he had recently finished army service in South Lebanon and came through some harrowing situations there with without being harmed and was working in Eilat before his big “tiyyul” to South Asia— the shooter was an Israeli Bedouin Muslim. “Jihad” had nothing to do with it, and yeah, some people said that it was terrorism-related when the shooter guy was arrested and his Arab name was publicized, and they were wrong, the guy was just a junkie. (The guy went to jail for only 7 years and died in a car crash a month later–and that’s because –and now I’m going to stereotype again–in a country full of reckless drivers the Bedouin are among the most dangerous.)

      • Bornajoo on February 16, 2015, 2:42 pm

        @Mikhael

        Here is part of a recent comment from one of your fellow Zionists Mayhem on the other thread (about Netanyahu urging Danish and other European Jews to leave their countries and emigrate to Israel)

        “So what would be a proper reason for the Jews to leave Denmark – should they wait until the writing is all over the wall as the Jews did in Europe before the Nazi threat became irreversible?”

        This is after hardly any information has been given about the motive of this attack and even right now details are few and far between. Yet here is Mayhem echoing Netanyahu’s call for Jews to leave Denmark because one Jewish person was killed, even though the Danish Jews themselves are saying quite steadfastly that they do not want to leave

        So how would you respond to Mayhem & Netanyahu? Not only have they immediately labelled it as a hate crime (which it might be) before any evidence, but are using it as justification for an en mass emigration to Israel

      • Mikhael on February 16, 2015, 10:37 pm

        Bornajoo
        February 16, 2015, 2:42 pm

        @Mikhael

        Here is part of a recent comment from one of your fellow Zionists Mayhem on the other thread (about Netanyahu urging Danish and other European Jews to leave their countries and emigrate to Israel)

        I don’t believe that alarmist warnings of an imminent Holocaust are credible. Nevertheless, it’s always a good idea for Jews, whether from Europe, North or South America, Oceania, or Africa, to leave Diaspora lands and make aliyah to live in their own country, Israel, whether a particular host country is hospitable to Jews or not. Jews flourish and thrive in Israel like nowhere else. Nevertheless, it is an individual’s choice to make. What is clear is that in the Western liberal democracies, Jewish communities are on the wane through assimilation and intermarriage, with the exception of haredi Orthodox communities like in New York’s Boro Park, London’s Stamford Hill or the haredi areas of Antwerp, and the more “modern” Orthodox communities like Golders Green or the Five Towns of New York’s suburbs. Even the anti-Zionist haredim in places like Stamford Hill/Boro Park will always cherish a greater connection with Israel than UK or the US, and will continue to move to Israel, and you British Jews can expect to see increased aliyah from the ranks of the Jews with strong Jewish identification and self-affiliation, while the less religious will marry out and leave the community–but no–in the UK or on the continent, the less outwardly Jewish, assimilated Jews will not be threatened or killed because of their Jewish ancestry (as they were in Nazi Europe), however, European Jews who are visibly Jewish, e.g., people who routinely wear a kippa–at best put up with taunts and harassment and at worst may be targeted by psychos like the Copenhagen killer. This will make these Orthodox Jews feel less at home in the European host countries and more will leave for Israel and those who stay will hunker down in their little Stamford Hill-type enclaves and have even less interaction with their fellow citizens than they already do.

        “So what would be a proper reason for the Jews to leave Denmark – should they wait until the writing is all over the wall as the Jews did in Europe before the Nazi threat became irreversible?”
        This is after hardly any information has been given about the motive of this attack and even right now details are few and far between. Yet here is Mayhem echoing Netanyahu’s call for Jews to leave Denmark because one Jewish person was killed, even though the Danish Jews themselves are saying quite steadfastly that they do not want to leave

        I doubt that Mayhem’s or Netanyahu’s alarmist views are correct–there will not be a Holocaust against European Jews in our times, nevertheless, a Jew can never be more at home than in Israel. This is always true. Although the chief rabbi of Denmark is doing his job to reassure his community and the Danish public at large that Jews will remain patriotic citizens of Denmark and view it their home first and foremost (just as mainstream Muslim leaders of Denmark will echo the same line) we can still expect an uptick in Danish aliyah. So at least something good will come out of this tragedy.

        So how would you respond to Mayhem & Netanyahu? Not only have they immediately labelled it as a hate crime (which it might be) before any evidence, but are using it as justification for an en mass emigration to Israel

        I will not vote for Bibi (and in any case, I can’t vote unless I fly back to Israel in time for the election, and I am working on a contract assignment in the US for the next few months), but it’s the job of an Israeli PM to encourage aliyah all the time, and for that I praise him.

        It seems you are attempting to parody my statement that there is no evidence the Chapel Hill killer targeted his victims for being Muslim (although it might have been) by saying that there is no evidence that the Copenhagen killer targeted his victim because he was Jewish (although it might have been). But the two cases were very different. In the Copenhagen case, it’s clear that the killer clearly sought to harm Jews qua Jews — as a Jewish institution was deliberately targeted– it’s highly unlikely that the shul was “randomly” chosen by the killer— see above for my common-sense criteria about when it makes sense to label violent crime against members of a particular ethnic group as a “hate crime”. In the North Carolina case, the killer knew his victims and had a prior history of confrontation with them that was unconnected to their religion as far as we know, if he attacked a mosque or the offices of a Muslim social services agency in his city it would make much more sense to label it a “hate crime”–although I am sure he didn’t like his victims. Absent a history of extremist anti-Muslim statements by the perpetrator, threats against Muslims, or attacking a Muslim institution like a mosque, it is jumping to conclusions to say the victims were targeted simply because they were Muslims. They were also dental students–perhaps he hated dentists. Maybe he was an “anti dentite.”

        http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=anti-dentite

      • CigarGod on February 17, 2015, 10:28 am

        “…leave and go to their own country…”
        You mean an empty country, where no other culture is displaced or exterminated?
        How about just making a home where you are…like all the rest of us do?

      • Bornajoo on February 17, 2015, 4:49 pm

        @Mikhael
        “.. but it’s the job of an Israeli PM to encourage aliyah all the time, and for that I praise him.”

        Thanks for explaining that you do not agree with Mayhem’s position, in this instance anyway

        Now regarding your above statement about praising Israeli PM’s for encouraging aliyah. Are you also supportive of the fact that some of these Jews that are being encouraged to move to Israel are also being offered homes in settlements? Do you agree and support that too?

      • Mikhael on February 17, 2015, 11:45 am

        CigarGod
        February 17, 2015, 10:28 am
        “…leave and go to their own country…”
        You mean an empty country, where no other culture is displaced or exterminated?

        I have no idea about what country you might be referring to. Unlike Europeans who exterminated and displaced indigenous peoples and their cultures, Jews [….]

      • RoHa on February 17, 2015, 8:07 pm

        ” it’s always a good idea for Jews, whether from Europe, North or South America, Oceania, or Africa, to leave Diaspora lands and make aliyah to live in their own country, Israel, whether a particular host country is hospitable to Jews or not.”

        So you are saying that Australian Jews, Australian citizens, born and brought up in Australia, are not Australians but a sort of guest?

        Sound anti-Semitic to me.

      • Mikhael on February 17, 2015, 9:13 pm

        Bornajoo
        February 17, 2015, 4:49 pm
        Now regarding your above statement about praising Israeli PM’s for encouraging aliyah. Are you also supportive of the fact that some of these Jews that are being encouraged to move to Israel are also being offered homes in settlements? Do you agree and support that too?

        I support a 2-State solution and the creation of an additional Arab state on portions of disputed territory in the former British Mandate of Palestine west of the Jordan River where there is an Arab majority (there is already an Arab state, Jordan, existing on territory that exists on the east bank of the former British Mandate of Palestine, hence my use of the term “additional Arab state”). Hopefully, such a future geopolitical entity (the first Palestinian Arab state in history) will be prepared to live in peace next to a Jewish state of Israel. To that end, I think that building new settlements, especially in areas that will have to be ceded to this additional Palestinian Arab state is counterproductive and a waste. I think the same thing about post-1967 settlements that I believe will have to be ceded to a future Palestinian Arab state–places like Ariel (the biggest settlement in the West Bank that will have to be ceded) Shiloh, or Elon Moreh (where one of my sisters lives). I just see no way that Israel can keep these towns under Israeli control in any future two-state deal. But I see absolutely no problem with building new housing in already existing “consensus” settlements –places like Efrat or the other Gush Etzion region settlements, or Maaleh Adumim, and these post-1967 settlements will almost certainly remain under Israeli control in any future two-state deal. A new immigrant should have the right to live in them or in any other place in Israel just as any Israeli should have that right. Moreover, neighborhoods in the eastern part of the Israeli capital, Jerusalem, that was under Jordanian control for 19 years (including the Old City and the ancient Jewish Quarter, where my father’s parents were born in 1897 and 1903 and where my grandmother’s family had lived since they relocated to from Tiberias and Safed after the Galilee earthquake in 1837) or other Jewish-majority neighborhoods in the formerly Jordanian-held part of Jerusalem that were newly built after the 6-Day War (e.g., places like Ramot , Gilo or French Hill) or neighborhoods like Neveh Yaakov (which was a Palestinian-Jewish neighborhood until Palestinian Jews were expelled by Palestinian and Jordanian Muslims in 1948 during the Nakba and was resettled by Jews after a 19-year absence in 1967)–such neighborhoods in the Israeli capital are deemed so-called “settlements” by some. I flatly reject this approach (like any sane Israeli) and any Israeli government will also always reject such a classification. Jerusalem won’t be redivided and no Jewish-populated neighborhoods of Jerusalem will be considered “settlements” that are up for negotiation. So of course, any Israeli citizen, whether or not they are Israeli-born or recent ‘olim hadashim from Denmark, the US, Ethiopia, Iran, Russia or Australia, whether they are Jewish, Muslim, Christian, Druze or Buddhist , have the right to live in any part of the Israeli capital if they can afford to buy a flat or pay the rent.

      • Mikhael on February 17, 2015, 10:49 pm

        CigarGod—-[…] I do not deny that many Palestinian Arab civilians –just like Palestinian Jewish civilians (later known as Israelis)suffered as a result of the war. Atrocities were committed–on both sides–that affected civilians and soldiers of both nations. Palestinian Arabs now call the losses they suffered–and it is undeniable that they suffered losses–a Nakba. I don’t deny that on the whole, the creation of Israel was experienced as a catastrophe–I don’t deny that Palestinian Arab civilians were displaced during the war (just as Jewish civilians were displaced on a lesser scale from the West Bank). I do deny that their culture was “exterminated”, as you alleged. I deny that Jews are foreign interlopers to the Land of Israel. I come from a family that has resided continually in Galilee and Jerusalem since the 15th century, possibly longer. But all Jews can claim the Land of Israel as their original, national homeland.

        As to your other question–

        How about just making a home where you are…like all the rest of us do?

        The problem there is that despite never forgetting their national origins in their l homeland, Jews have always tried to make homes in their host countries, but have spent centuries being forced to reside by the governmental/ecclesiastical authorities of the Gentile societies, in restricted areas known variously throughout history as “ghettos”
        Judengasse,” “Pales of Settlement,” “Mellah“, “Harawat al Yahud” etc… or being expelled en masse and made to move to a new principality, a new country,a new continent. This was the lot of Jews for nearly two millennia until the 20th century–ghettoization and/or expulsion. It is also true that these restrictions suited the rabbinical leadership of Jewish communities as it allowed the rabbis to exercise more control over their own Jews, and yes, by the 19th century, starting with the Napoleonic Wars, most of the ghetto walls had fallen down and Jews were able to leave the ghettos. By the 20th century, in Western Europe at least, Jews had left the ghettos their ancestors lived in and thought they were actively integrated and nearly completely assimilated into the societies of countries like Germany; they believed that they had “made their homes where they were,” and deluded themselves that they were accepted by most of their non-Jewish neighbors, but apparently a lot of non-Jewish Germans (as well as non-Jewish citizens of neighboring countries) didn’t think that the Jews who were such active participants in and contributors to German society and culture were truly “at home” by the 1930s. Even hundreds of thousands of people who merely had Jewish ancestry, people who were intermarried with non-Jews, people whose parents or grandparents had baptized them as Christians and didn’t even think of themselves as Jews ,were victimized and murdered by the Nazis because of their Jewish roots. The lucky ones became refugees. Fortunately, now that modern political Zionism has achieved the reestablishment of an independent Jewish nation-state in the original Jewish homeland, if Jews (or even people of partial Jewish ancestry) are told by non-Jewish neighbors and governments that they are not at home in their host countries, they will never again face the dilemma of being made to leave their host countries while simultaneously not having an original home to return to. Of course, as I stated earlier, I actually don’t believe that the same situation obtains in 2015 as it did in 1940s Europe, when highly assimilated Jews in Western Europe who are completely integrated into their host societies were singled out by the Nazis and their puppet regimes merely for having Jewish ancestry and who were sent to the camps. I don’t think the assimilated Jews in the West face any credible physical threat to their lives. No neo-Nazi regime or Islamist fanatic group will come to power in Europe or the Americas to persecute them. They will just marry out and vanish from the Jewish fold. If that’s what they want, that’s okay. But Jews who lead actively Jewish lives and who openly maintain their Jewish heritage will definitely be under threat from fanatics and made to feel less at home in the host lands. You are suggesting, I suppose, that the solution for them is to stop being Jewish and to abandon their heritage and their culture. While that might work in the 21st century (it didn’t work from the 19th century–when leaving the Jewish community without converting to Chrsitianity first became an option in Europe–up to the 1940s), the better solution for them is to return to their real home. That’s in Israel, not Denmark, France, or the UK. (Or the USA, for that matter.)

      • Mooser on February 18, 2015, 10:19 pm

        “Mikhael” do you have a point, or just a kind of verbal diarrhea? It’s just killing you that these three wonderful kids are getting any good coverage at all, and nobody is calling them “terrorists”.

        Why don’t you go contribute to the “Free Hicks fund” Mikheal

  9. Marnie on February 11, 2015, 1:07 pm

    Remember the story a few months back about a young Jewish woman who didn’t feel “safe” on campus because of BDS and pro-Palestinian activists? If I recall correctly, her life wasn’t in jeopardy or had she received any threats, but she just didn’t feel comfortable. I can only imagine how the Muslim community in America and particularly in Chapel Hill are feeling. I am so sorry for their horrible loss. Absolutely shameful. What was the reason for this? Blind hatred that is being fueled by the MSM? John Boehner, Lindsey Graham, et al doing obeisance to Netanyahu and going against the will of their own president? How about the cartoon from USA Today – Allah Ahkbar Baby? And Mort Klein stating democrats who boycott Netanyahu’s address need a “doctor’s note”. It sounds as crazy in the US as it does in Israel and that’s really, really crazy. This is a confusing message for the average american, that their patriotism must be to a foreign state and not their own country and that their destiny is inextricably bound to a foreign state. This horrible story coming out of the US along with the continual murder and brutality of Palestinians is frightening. The young Druze soldier who was beaten for speaking Arabic? WTF is happening?

    • seafoid on February 12, 2015, 3:52 am

      2 different processes.

      1. The US is gearing up for 2016 elections and the GOP needs some memes that aren’t economic because the Dems are going to hammer them on inequality. Middle America is really suffering. Median income is $4,000 lower in real terms than it was in 2008. 92 million people are no longer looking for work even if unemployment is at very low levels. the Fed can’t do anything to generate sustainable growth.
      Trickle up has reached its end logic. So they have to try something else like small government.

      http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/4eea183c-ade3-11e4-919e-00144feab7de.html#ixzz3RWCuis6R

      “Some Republican politicians have come out this week in defence of vaccine sceptics’ right to choose whether to vaccinate their children. Yet this is treacherous political territory: potential Republican presidential candidates were left stumbling this week as they tried to tie the right not to vaccinate to their belief in limited government.

      Rand Paul, the Kentucky senator known for his libertarian views, was forced to backtrack after comments that vaccines should be largely voluntary. “I have heard of many tragic cases of walking, talking normal children who wound up with profound mental disorders after vaccines,” Mr Paul said. He later tweeted a picture of himself getting a booster shot.

      Chris Christie, the New Jersey governor who is also mulling a run for the White House, was widely criticised for saying that “parents need to have some measure of choice” on whether to vaccinate their children. Both politicians later pointed out that their own children were vaccinated.”

      or hatred

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_zF7nbEvwY

      2. Israel has reached terminal hatred

      • CigarGod on February 12, 2015, 8:59 am

        92 million have stopped looking for work?
        I’m guessing you left out a decimal point :-)

      • seafoid on February 12, 2015, 9:21 am

        155.9 million is the size of the labour force measured by people looking for work.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_labour_force
        The labour participation rate is back where it was 36 years ago – when most families only needed one person in employment. In September the rate was 62.7%.

        http://qz.com/286213/the-chart-obama-haters-love-most-and-the-truth-behind-it/

        So total adult population = 155.9/62.7% = 248m
        The number of people not in the labour force is the difference between 155.9m and 248m

        248-155.9 = 92 million
        Some of them are retired, vets, sick, whatever but the employment rate has been as high as 67% recently.
        No decimal point issue unfortunately.
        And 46 million people are on food stamps

        The GOP can’t sell a lot of those people the American dream.

      • CigarGod on February 12, 2015, 9:38 am

        Workforce is counted from age 16, right? We can’t count retired/perm. disabled.
        I’ll have to look at this closer when I’m not finger picking on my phone.
        I know a ton of those on food stamps are military…and employed. A ton are getting food stamps…but work at big box stores McDonalds, etc.
        This is interesting topic…because economic conditions are an ingredient in all revolutions I can think of.

      • seafoid on February 12, 2015, 10:28 am

        Cigargod

        Unemployment as measured by the official U3 statistic is at very low levels below 6% but given the context of all the missing workers the question is how relevant this statistic is.
        Let’s say 62.7% is a low and 68% is where it should be.

        The U6 measure includes discouraged workers, part time workers and other marginally attached workers and stands currently at 11.8%. This is more like it.

        http://www.macrotrends.net/1377/u6-unemployment-rate

        And it is considerably higher than the long term average. Before 2000 it didn’t go higher than 7.2%

        the Fed thinks that if unemployment falls wages will rise but they haven’t.
        And this means that the economy is not developing as it should. Inequality is driving it.
        All the trickle up stuff.

        Up to 40% of young graduates work in low paid jobs. Workers are a whole have diminished bargaining power but those under 30 have the weakest influence and this is reflected in their remuneration. One way of looking at the US economy now is as a struggle for resources between underpaid young people, more secure people in their 40s and 50s and comparably well off boomers. Older workers tend to have better political organisation.
        46 m on food stamps, a lot in employment but can’t pay the bills and no negotiating power.

        The boomers are shafting their kids and grandkids, more or less
        Political dynamite . The US has a history of political instability when either labor or capital go too far ….

      • CigarGod on February 12, 2015, 10:38 am

        Nice, Seafoid.
        They way the right wing demonizes the unemployed…and then points at who they should blame for their plight, is a nice little piece of manipulation.

      • seafoid on February 12, 2015, 1:56 pm

        When Romney talked about the 47% in that speech that was recorded by that cater waiter he was talking about stagnant wage America.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2gvY2wqI7M

        The GOP have to be worried about the Fed’s failure to get wage growth back on track.
        Deflation is going to really hurt .

  10. just on February 11, 2015, 2:37 pm

    As I said this morning, how much you want to bet he saw “American Sniper”?

    It’s ridiculous for the police to say it might be a dispute over parking~ anyone who buys that is a total idiot.

    • Kathleen on February 11, 2015, 4:51 pm

      That is what the few articles I have read are saying. Clearly a hate crime….Calling AGHolder

  11. seafoid on February 11, 2015, 2:52 pm

    Imagine if it had been 3 jews. OMG. Imagine killing Jews

    • DaBakr on February 11, 2015, 8:22 pm

      @sf
      its all over the news…both foreign and American news outlets with big headlines asking “Hate Crime”? What exactly is the issue? Are people questioning wether these kids were ch chosen by killer (they obviously were.) like people are STILL questioning wether the hyper cache victims were chosen on purpose. (see Obamas refusal to categorize them as ‘targets’) The suspect was obviously a crazed and hateful man who thought nothing of killing. And maybe he absolutely did have a problem with the three. Buts its too early to know if it was specifically because they were Muslim, Or immigrants, Not white?, Not ‘American ‘ enough? And maybe yes, Muslim. But there is no proof and only heresy. Instead of putting foot-in-mouth-why not just wait and see what the press is obviously on the story like bears to honey for all sorts of media driven reasons-concern being the least of them. I can’t see what is different about other similar crimes coverage.

      sf seems to want things both ways–A) to downplay when jews are killed by ideological killers who chose their victims purposefully and B) to play up the murder of innocent Muslim people (citizens?) killed by deranged killer who may or may not have ideological motive. He posted atheistic rants-supposedly. I see atheistic rants on MW all the time but they don;t advocate killing. Face it, you just have a beef wether it makes sense or not. And you’ll do anything to tie this issue to the one that drives you to your utmost miserable and grizzled commentary. You seem unaware how trying so earnestly to tie these murders to Zionism produces the exact opposite result .

      I know the victims father indirectly and i can only comment that when he said that his daughter had very unpleasant contact with this guy-he was speaking as if he was very familiar with a certain type of outraged or outrageous ‘type’ and that he himself most likely has a history of unpleasant experiences himself. There is also a large population of Indian and Asian professors there that would tell you the same racial stories. The poor father is probably killing himself with guilt for not warning them more forcefully. They just didn’t imagine the worst. They were highly educated, sophisticated and most probably felt sorry for the guy as a twisted angry brute even if he did make things unpleasant for them. I know the father is a man of deep understanding but his ‘baby’ has just been murdered and now is no time to judge his actions and thoughts. But I doubt he his thinking about Zionism.

      • seafoid on February 11, 2015, 10:48 pm

        It’s a much bigger system issue, Dabakr

        Fox does the incitement for Red America

        Emerson later apologized about getting Birmingham wrong- but the point was the meme on Fox . Deliberate. Getting it across to dumb Americans. The Brits who were interviewed had no idea.

        Incitement just like Netanyahu in Israel. And then surprise when some nut with a gun kills 3 innocent Muslims. Too bad. People kill people, not guns etc.

        And 4 innocent Jews are murdered in Paris and civilisation is falling apart.

        Join the dots.
        There is nothing that individuals at the family level can do about it.

        I was listening to a Stereolab song on youtube yesterday and came across one very interesting comment

        “a lovely nostalgic feeling of the late 80 and early 90s – when chic, optimistic, partying, young upper-middles made this kind of groove and lived fascinating cheerful existences. in the depressed 21st, it is no longer just retro-chic but retro retro-chic. like looking back on the hedonism of the early 20s. ”

        We live in a really dysfunctional time and these murders and how the media treats them without going into the wider system issues are part of it.

        This is not just a hate crime. It’s a symptom of something much bigger.

      • bryan on February 12, 2015, 6:34 am

        Thanks Seafoid. This is indeed ” a much bigger system issue”. No wonder the world is such a crazy crazy place, when:

        (1) a leading and much respected expert on Islamic terrorism, and a recipient of many awards for investigative journalism, can claim that the city of Birmingham, England, was populated entirely by Muslims and was a “no go area” for non-Muslims, and that in London, “Muslim religious police ‘beat’ anyone who doesn’t dress according to Muslim, religious Muslim attire”. Emerson later admitted to the BBC that this was an “egregious mistake” and entirely his fault for listening to previously trust-worthy informants, but in truth such “idiotic” remarks as British PM Cameron called them are so counter-intuitive and could so easily have been rejected with the merest modicum of research (Birmingham is very multi-cultural but has a majority white, Christian population which has for decades coexisted happily with a significant Moslem minority.) Effectively his role as expert and pundit was to repeat uncorroborated hearsay, unfiltered by the slightest discernment or realism.

        (2) He is repeatedly given a platform by American TV and print media, and was egged on by the presenter who made not a single attempt to challenge or question what appeared to be outrageous slurs about a country with a very similar political and social structure to the USA. Would she have simply have nodded and agreed had a pundit claimed Chicago was a 100% Moslem no-go city or New York was policed by Islamic vigilantes?

        (3) Despite (because of?) its slapdash journalism and feeble editorial stance, Fox attracts advertisers and viewers in droves, who prefer its confrontational, gimmicky “info”-tainment to any more intellectually challenging or informed analysis – what hope then is there for the electoral process or for democratic accountability or for transparency, and this is of course fine for News Corporation and the other huge corporations living in pork-barrel-land, and who will happily subvert popular democracy (as when GWB’s cousin John Prescott Ellis ran Fox’s 2000 campaign coverage and prematurely called Florida a Republican win).

        No wonder Islamism is the new devil, and Israel is America’s best friend in a war of civilisations!

      • Chu on February 12, 2015, 11:35 am

        After watching the videos, I’m reminded of why people in the US so mentally stunted – all they need to do is watch these two shabbos orangutans make some guttural sounds as they read the scripted teleprompter.

        I think I’d rather hear Dersh and Judy Judy dialogue here – in the least they won’t trip over their scripts and they’d say it from their hearts. Fox deserves blame surely, but so do all of the media empires in the US.

        *Pirro ran against Billary in 2006 for U.S. New York Senator. I didn’t think she could make such a quick transformation to the mental slums it in only 7 years, but she certainly didn’t disappoint her fan base.

  12. lysias on February 11, 2015, 2:59 pm

    Since the evidence looks strong that this was a hate crime, should somebody submit some kind of document or letter to the Justice Department asking it to open an investigation?

  13. Bornajoo on February 11, 2015, 3:36 pm

    How come no Je suis Chapel Hill?
    Where are the world leaders?
    Where is the protest, where is the march?
    Why did I hear about this on MW and not on every single bit of the main stream media?

    Oh sorry I forgot, they were Muslims. How stupid of me.

    What a horrible heart breaking story.

    • Kathleen on February 11, 2015, 4:50 pm

      “Oh sorry I forgot, the were Muslims.” Last night Chris Matthews has been ranting asking “when is the US going to stand up” to these kinds of killings…Kayla’s killing which is indeed horrific. However you do not hear Chris Matthews pushing for an accounting of the thousands of innocent people (mostly Muslims) killed by U.S. drones. No coverage…no mention. Ayman Moyheldin (reporter MSNBC) mentioned this during his interview with Melissa Harris Perry on Sunday’s program

      • Kay24 on February 11, 2015, 10:47 pm

        We have a bunch of shameless hypocrites calling themselves the media. We know how biased they are, and to how far their loyalties will go to. Muslims lives are cheap and absolutely do not count. Now if these were Jewish kids, oy vey….

    • Daniel Rich on February 11, 2015, 8:30 pm

      @ Bornajoo,

      Q: Why did I hear about this on MW and not on every single bit of the main stream media?

      R: Shouldn’t/wouldn’t the next logical step be to ask ourselves why MSM is having this slanted/bigoted agenda?

      Cui bono?

      You?

      I?

      • CigarGod on February 12, 2015, 9:06 am

        Inordinate influence.
        Either we don’t know it, we are afraid to voice it…or it works for us.
        Very few courageous leaders in a herd.

      • Citizen on February 13, 2015, 8:36 am

        I read that 90% of US mainstream media outlets are owned by a half-dozen super corporations.

    • DaBakr on February 12, 2015, 12:54 am

      @bj

      “how come no je sis…”

      MW was like one of the primary blog sites that wrote about how hypocritical the whole “Je Suis..” campaign was in the first place and how it should NOT be promoted and now your outraged because nobody is hypocritically claiming they are Je Suis Muslim. And anyway-Je Suis Muslim has already been done millions of times. If you knew anything about Chapel Hill you would know how stupid a JSCH t-shirt would be. But by all means, carry on with the OUTRAGE. And while your good and outraged think about how this murderous clown that at best, was an insane racist and at worst was just some sad angry jealous schmuck with a gun fetish that let his emotions get out of control and he lost it and now destroyed 3 young promising lives-their families and his own family as well. They should hand him the pistol w one bullet and just get it over with.

      *if you really want outrage and irony-check out the victims tweet/facebook feeds. His best Palestinian friend whom he met at a clinic to provide dental care to Palestinian kids in Nablus said that he was much “safer in the conflict zone then in America”.

      • Bornajoo on February 12, 2015, 1:07 pm

        @DaBakr
        “MW was like one of the primary blog sites that wrote about how hypocritical the whole “Je Suis..” campaign was in the first place and how it should NOT be promoted and now your outraged because nobody is hypocritically claiming they are Je Suis Muslim”

        I was not outraged at no “Je suis…”. I was exposing the double hypocrisy. Look at the reaction in France when the targets were Jews and other non Muslims. The entire msm was there, 24 hour wall to wall msm coverage and nearly every single world leader making sure they got their two pence contribution in. The whole Je suis reaction to France was overblown and hypocritical due to the actual targets of the killings. But when 3 Muslims get murdered, most probably due to a racist motive, there is mainly silence from those very same people. Get it?

      • Mooser on February 13, 2015, 8:56 pm

        Bornajoo, one of these days, and it won’t be long, “Dabakr,” or “Yonah” or “Hophmi” will discover the thing! The omission, inconsistency, locution, choice of words, choice of subject matter, choice of writers, who knows, which proves once and for all that Mondo must be shut down for the public good! Maybe they won’t find that thing today, but there’s always tomorrow. And when they do find it, well, what power they will have!

  14. American on February 11, 2015, 4:27 pm

    I think mentioned some years ago running into a para military group/club out in the country around here—-except they were bible and religious fanatics–and gun and anti government fanatics and racist.
    They had a trailer out in the country loaded down with TVs and computers and feeds running to monitor news with–looked like something out of movie depiction of a FBI spying van.
    The guy I approached there was crazy as fucking loon and lit into some bible and anti government rant demanding to know what side I was on and was I some gov spy –so I took my leave as soon as I could back out without getting shot or enraging him more.
    Some months later I was on the same country road and saw a dozen or more pick up trucks with rifle racks parked at the trailer property for a meeting evidently.
    There are some bat shit crazy people out there and everything the usual suspects and the media is doing is making them even crazier.

    • CigarGod on February 12, 2015, 9:23 am

      Yeah, man.
      There is a garden growing…of black pants, brown shirts and jack boots. The religious fanatics, the ignorant poor, the damaged/brainwashed returning soldier. They see only black and white. They don’t look left or right. They are armed. From an opportunists point of view…which is what all leaders are…- A rabid mob is a terrible thing to waste –

  15. Kathleen on February 11, 2015, 4:47 pm

    Another hate crime tragedy. Will Chris Matthews and other MSM host talk about these young women and their lives. How obviously hate has killed them too. So sad….enought

  16. Kathleen on February 11, 2015, 4:56 pm

    The group FAIR should be following the lack of coverage on these killings. Wonder if AG Holder will step up to the plate?

    • just on February 11, 2015, 11:34 pm

      Not yet, but Jim Naureckas covered Matthews’ Meltdown from last night today:

      “Matthews Calls for ‘Rambo Kind of Stuff’ as Response to Real-World Violence”

      http://fair.org/blog/2015/02/11/chris-matthews-calls-for-rambo-kind-of-stuff-as-response-to-real-world-violence/

      • Walid on February 12, 2015, 12:42 am

        Just, you have to read between the lines; the scenario is being set up with the help of the press, as usual, for a major hit on Syria under the pretext of going all out to eliminate the ISIS that has been initially nurtured by the West. The burning soldier and the bombed Kayla are part of the script. We are close to having our “incubator” and ” Powell”moments since it seems that the US always need such moments. The Neocon ghouls referred to them as “Pearl Harbor” moments. The “incubator” moment kicked off the first Gulf war, which lead to the second that was kicked off by the Powell false testimony moment.

        Now we just had our “Kayla” moment to coincide with Obama going to Congress for a 3-year pass on taking out ISIS with no questions asked, a bit of what Matthews was driving at.

        Expect some Shock and Awe all over Syria; Obama will be Rambo:

      • just on February 12, 2015, 12:47 am

        Sadly and frighteningly, I had considered the same.

        I fervently hope and pray that we are wrong. Israel will be happy-> Iran won’t be ->Israel will be happy.

        Millions will die. I don’t think Mr. Obama will do it~ he’d be a very reluctant Rambo, imho.

      • Keith on February 12, 2015, 6:54 pm

        WALID- “…the scenario is being set up with the help of the press, as usual, for a major hit on Syria under the pretext of going all out to eliminate the ISIS that has been initially nurtured by the West.”

        I fear that you are probably correct. The empire is in full attack mode as we approach the culmination of neoliberal globalization. Both military (Syria and Ukraine) and financial/economic (Russia, Venezuela, China and Africa). Things seem to be going from bad to worse.

    • bryan on February 12, 2015, 6:38 am

      I bet CAMERA will beat them to it.

    • Mayhem on February 12, 2015, 7:16 am

      @lysias, pray tell how many more people are Islamists killing today than they were prior to 2001?

      Furthermore upon reading the post that you linked to from the Washington Post there is a graph showing that in 2013 Jews had almost 6 times the number of hate crimes inflicted upon them than Muslims had and the Muslim population exceeds the Jewish population in the United States.

      As for the reportage of this triple murder it seems to be getting wide publicity as I just read the story through the Australian news media

      Sad event but the knee-jerk reactivity is another story. There seems to be lynch mob mentality out there that is wanting to emulate the behavior of the Ku Klux Klan.

      To my mind these kind of events are primarily the product of the ridiculous lack of gun control laws in the US.

      • Mooser on February 15, 2015, 5:32 pm

        “To my mind these kind of events are primarily the product of the ridiculous lack of gun control laws in the US. “

        Say, Mayhem, what kind of gun control do you have in the settlements? What kind of gun control do you have in Jerusalem? You are making sure guns don’t fall into the hands of the wrong people there, aren’t you?

        A Zionist calling for “gun control” That’s a laugh.

      • CigarGod on February 15, 2015, 6:04 pm

        To mayhems mind, these guns have minds of their own.

  17. just on February 11, 2015, 5:23 pm

    Excerpt from Ali Abunimah’s article:

    “Given the national and global attention to this case, and the heightened tensions due to Islamophobia, Obama could have already issued a short statement to the effect that he’s aware of the horrific tragedy, sends condolences for three young Americans, is gathering information and will offer federal assistance to local authorities. Indeed, that is precisely what Obama did right after the 13 April 2014 shooting at Jewish community center in Kansas City. The president noted that “While we do not know all of the details surrounding today’s shooting, the initial reports are heartbreaking.”

    He offered his condolences for the dead and said “I have asked my team to stay in close touch with our federal, state and local partners and provide the necessary resources to support the ongoing investigation.”

    Is that too much to ask? Instead there has been silence more than twelve hours after the shootings.”

    http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/obamas-silence-chapel-hill-murders-already-speaks-volumes

    btw~ CNN Blitzer has a bit coming up with the Mayor of Chapel Hill~ and earlier on MSNBC @ 11am, Tamron did cover it with a student from CH who was concerned that when it came to people of color, less attention was given. She also said that students were not notified of shooting til 1900.

    • just on February 11, 2015, 5:45 pm

      Still “coming up” on CNN~ lots of speculation by Wolf spewing rumors about Kayla (RIP) and 2 terrorism experts (she was sold into marriage, etc) the two experts pooh- poohed him and the rumors, and one said she was treated well……..

      This is really gonna be hard on old Blitzer to come to terms with the cold hard fact that not all Muslims are terrorists and far, far too many are victims of his countries.

      (wonder if Horrible Hicks was ‘avenging’ Kayla’s death)

      • Kay24 on February 11, 2015, 9:08 pm

        Blitzer only has one mission – to keep harping on how helpless Israel is, and keep the propaganda going. If you watch him interview Netanyahu and not challenge the lies, you realize how morbidly devoted he is to the cause.

    • Kathleen on February 11, 2015, 9:19 pm

      Thanks

  18. Kathleen on February 11, 2015, 9:31 pm

    Dr. Mohammad Abu-Salha (father of the two young women killed) “It was execution style, a bullet in every head” Will Chris Matthews, Wolf Blitzer cover these killings as much as they have covered Kayla’s horrific death? Will they? Brutal hate crimes

  19. Rashid.M on February 11, 2015, 9:40 pm

    Was Hicks’s antipathy to Islam and religion a minor, major or no factor in his killing spree? Noone can, at this stage, make that call with absolute certainty. No ‘smoking gun’ (such as a Breivik-like manifesto) has so far been uncovered or presented. But what can be said with certainty I think, is that the unwritten conventional media rules displayed in reporting, and in implying and assigning motivation, are not equally applied.

    If, God forbid, this had been a gunman who happened to also be Muslim, with parking rage and a known animosity towards the irreligious, does anyone doubt that the default broad media position would be a highlighting of the religious identity of the perpetrator, if not an automatic and outright assumption of religious motivation? Cue the ‘homegrown terror’ headlines and raise the ‘Terror-Alert status’ in accordance with the ongoing and established narrative.

    As I sit thousands of kilometres away from Chapel Hill, North Carolina, I wonder why this story about three victims I never knew has affected me as strongly as it has. I think it’s in large part because they and their backgounds, like Kayla Mueller, exhibit to me an optimism and a humanity that transcends distance.

    “Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly” – Rev Martin Luther King.

    • just on February 11, 2015, 10:29 pm

      What a great comment.

      Thank you.

      • bintbiba on February 12, 2015, 2:26 pm

        I second that, Rashid M. and ‘just’.

        Beautifully expressed. Thank you.

  20. wondering jew on February 11, 2015, 9:43 pm

    Though Annie Robbins has not commented here yet, I am reminded of these “touching” words that she wrote to me days ago

    try not to take it so personally.

    what if i wrote to you now try not to take it so personally.

    Of course she gave a context for her “touching” words:

    jews fear of racism against them doesn’t have any more value than a black person or a muslim being scared of people hating them … just because they scream about it more and the press keeps writing about it and it has it’s own separate label. bigots are everywhere, you’re no different than anyone else in that regard.

    • Mooser on February 11, 2015, 11:16 pm

      “what if i wrote to you now try not to take it so personally.”

      Isn’t that what (in your usual sneaking, nasty fashion) you just did?
      What on earth are you talking about Yonah? Try making just a little sense.

      And that quote from Annie is relevant how? But I get the message, we are bad people if we take these deaths in any way “personally”

      Oh, I get it, Yonah, if we refuse to get all personally sad over the deaths of Zionists in pursuing their objectives, we can’t feel sorry for three Muslims gunned down in America pursuing perfectly legal and honorable paths? Is that the idea, or is it too complicated for me?

      • Daniel Rich on February 12, 2015, 3:37 am

        @ Mooser,

        Q: Is that the idea, or is it too complicated for me?

        R: Stop it. You owe me big time now, coz this is 2nd TV screen I’ve ruined!

        @ yo-yo Yonah,

        So, you just had your ‘lil ’67 moment by preemptively attacking Annie, who isn’t even part of the debate [yet]. Congrats. Bravo. Encore, compadre.

        Oh, and stop acting like you own this deli, capiche?

      • Mooser on February 12, 2015, 4:51 pm

        “Oh, and stop acting like you own this deli, capiche?”

        Oh, the food service is just a little subsidiary thing, people gotta eat, why not make a profit?
        No it’s not just the deli. Haven’t you noticed that “Yonah,” “Hopphmi,” “Jon s” and the rest own “the Jews”?

      • Mooser on February 12, 2015, 5:12 pm

        Wow, Annie didn’t write the article, Annie didn’t comment, but Yonah knows her hidden hypocrisies! I wonder if he knows when Annie’s sleeping and when she’s awake? And knows if she’s been bad or good?
        So be good for goodness’ sake!

      • Philemon on February 12, 2015, 9:17 pm

        Oh, but Mooser, Yonah is obviously psychic.

        Hey, Yonah! How much you want to bet I’m black as the ace of spades, baby?!

      • Mooser on February 13, 2015, 10:46 am

        Philemon, note, if you will, what happened here. Yonah came out of nowhere, and made a pre-emptive rhetorical attack on a Moderator! Yonah is trying to get himself banned, but the Moderators won’t cooperate. So he’s ratcheting up the nuttiness.

      • amigo on February 13, 2015, 11:20 am

        “Yonah is trying to get himself banned” mooser.

        Maybe yonah,s ” wanderlust” is re-emerging and he wants to toddle along to “greener” pastures.That is to say , he realises, after several unsuccessful seasons his seeds do not germinate in MW soil as the climate is intemperate and unforgiving.

      • Mooser on February 13, 2015, 2:57 pm

        “Maybe yonah,s ” wanderlust” is re-emerging “

        “Wanderlust”? Oh, I see! Amigo, you must mean his “wonder lust”! Yup, after he dug himself too deep a hole as “WonderingJew” he changed to “Yonah Fredman”. I guess he stopped wondering, and now, he knows!

    • eljay on February 12, 2015, 9:38 am

      || y.f. @ February 11, 2015, 9:43 pm ||

      She was right. The world is full of victims, and Jewish people aren’t “more specialer” victims than are blacks or Muslims or homosexuals or raped women, et cetera.

      The solution to acts of injustice and immorality was and is justice, accountability and equality, universally and consistently applied. The solution was not and is not an oppressive, colonialist, expansionist and religion-supremacist state.

    • jenin on February 12, 2015, 5:06 pm

      Yonah, your comment doesn’t make any sense nor is Annie’s quote applicable to this article. Annie (assuming you quoted her accurately) was saying that just because anti-semitism is a bigger topic than many other sorts of bigotry, doesn’t actually mean that it is a bigger problem, or that the fear Jews experience is more significant than what Muslims or blacks or gays experience.

      Pray tell, what does that have to do with the ACTUAL murder of three people?

    • annie on February 12, 2015, 11:39 pm

      yonah, i just saw your comment. the circumstances in which i wrote it, here: http://mondoweiss.net/2015/02/palestinian-congressional-punishing#comment-744987 , was in a context in which we were having a political conversation and seafoid stated the murders in paris were not anti semitic because of the political dynamics.. because, and i quote seafoid:

      I don’t think the 94 argentina bombings or the 15 charlie grocer killings were antisemitic. If Zionism wants middle east hegemony there is a price. If nobody is safe in Gaza why should anyone be safe in galut? It is the same sick logic.

      Where in the bible did gd give jews a monopoly on the use of political violence ?

      then you said they were definitely anti semitic because:

      the result was clearly a fulfillment of a wish to kill Jews qua Jews. But you are saying since the motivation was not hatred of Jews qua Jews but rather the hatred of Jews qua representatives of Zionism, therefore you feel the motivation should be recognized as the essence rather than the result. but certainly the results are antisemitic. – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2015/02/palestinian-congressional-punishing#comment-744987

      when you said “but certainly the results are antisemitic” i felt you were prioritizing that aspect of our discussion. hence, i tried to explain to you (in the middle of what was supposed to be a political conversation) that if a political aim has an ethnic component then while racism may be an incorporating factor into a crime, it’s may not be the over-riding feature (as opposed to political aim/retribution). then i stated:

      racism seems a more personal crime. but globally, in the societal construct there’s a lot more going on here than racism. the advancement and promotion of islamophobia (in the US and europe) is a tool being applied for other reason~regional domination primarily. – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2015/02/palestinian-congressional-punishing#comment-744987

      it was in this context i advised you to try not take it ( the political conversation we were trying to have that kept coming back to anti semitism … thanks to jon ) so personally.

      and when i spoke of the “value” of fear (for jews vs other peoples fears) i didn’t mean in terms of “worth” per se, i meant the way the term is used in relation to color (regarding luminosity vs drab). so while for you anti semitism may hold more value, it has no more value than the fears of others.

      and as an aside, i do take these recent murders very personally. it is one of the reasons i have not been able to comment on these threads. i have been very distracted (emotionally) since i heard. it’s mostly what i have been thinking about. and i resent the purposeful intent in which islamophobia has been injected into our national psyche by certain people and groups with a LOT of access to the media and to our court system and our government. it’s really screwing up our country. and it’s all part of a much bigger picture. a picture that’s massively screwing over the ME. it all goes hand and hand.

      look on the bright side, if these 3 promising young people had been american jews, obama and abe foxman would have made statements by now. and had their killer been a muslim, every muslim in this country and all their iman’s would be tasked with condemning the act.

      but, he was an atheist. i don’t hear anyone demanding bill maher or sam harris or any other atheists make statements distancing themselves from this crime. too many news reports prioritizing parking.

      • Kay24 on February 12, 2015, 11:50 pm

        Very well stated Annie. I feel exactly like you, and I totally agree with what you have said, especially the last part about islamaphobia injected in our national psyche. Millions of dollars have been poured into this hate campaign, and it is sad that innocent people always pay for it at the end. I guess to get away with ones own crimes against humanity, an occupation, and the far too many crimes to mention, one must make it look justifiable, and give them the excuse, to continue, hence make all Muslims look evil and terrorists (really a projection of themselves).

        We will never be able to rid ourselves of this curse.

      • annie on February 13, 2015, 12:09 am

        it’s not only that kay, it’s also the over-riding plan to re draw the map (and control) the entire middle east. reminds me we wreaked havoc throughout south america for decades… instigating massive death. dominating a continent is tricky business. the whole thing stinks to high heaven hell. this is a generational mission and we need to get out of the middle east. that includes israel of course.

      • Kay24 on February 13, 2015, 12:52 am

        Annie, you are absolutely right, it is indeed the redrawing of the ME map, and of course, making sure the zionists get all their evil hearts desire. This is a far bigger plan than what Al Qaeda and other terror groups are supposed to be doing to us…or is ISIS part of their plan too?

        Perhaps that is why PNAC pushed for wars, and look who the signatories were, mostly zionists:

        “Media commentators have found it significant that signatories to the PNAC’s January 16, 1998 letter to President Clinton (and some of its other position papers, letters, and reports) included such later Bush administration officials as Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Perle, John Bolton, Richard Armitage, and Elliott Abrams.[31][40][43][52]”

        Wikipedia

      • wondering jew on February 13, 2015, 6:39 pm

        annie- To tell you the truth, I think you have the sensitivity of a bull in a china shop. How about I say that the four black girls killed in the birmingham church on a sunday in 1963, that that was not a racist act, but a political act. how would you react to that? why emphasize the personal or the racist, why not call it political?

        don’t take it personal.
        wtf.
        you are obtuse and proud. that’s all i can come up with.

      • annie on February 15, 2015, 1:13 pm

        How about I say that the four black girls killed in the birmingham church on a sunday in 1963, that that was not a racist act, but a political act.

        yonah, i think you’re willfully making an effort not to understand me or seafoid for that matter. to begin with i entered the conversation trying to clarify what i thought seafoid’s statement was, however, it was his statement not mine. you seemed unwilling (and still seem unwilling) to understand the point whether you agree with that point or not. you are attacking the point in an ad hominem way, claiming the point, and me, are “insensitive”. you are also not acknowledging the point when you respond to it by claiming , again “clearly a fulfillment of a wish to kill Jews qua Jews” as if political objectives never matter (because they do).

        you are evading the political component of the ME in the discussion completely (while everyone knows the expansion of israel and the continued settlement building is political and has a political component and that there ARE regional geostrategic goals in the ME and these two components work together, [see allison’s ISIS netanyahu post today] on the geostrategic landscape and in the propaganda that accompanies it)

        again, i stated:

        “i felt you were prioritizing that aspect of our discussion. hence, i tried to explain to you (in the middle of what was supposed to be a political conversation) that if a political aim has an ethnic component then while racism may be an incorporating factor into a crime, it’s may not be the over-riding feature (as opposed to political aim/retribution).

        “may not”. do you know the meaning of that term? i am not talking about specific individual crimes. i am talking about overall regional aims. of course war is personal on a micro level. on a macro level, for the people who plan those wars, they think of the overall goal – but they use personal actions, crimes and attacks to move society. that’s just a fact yonah. the way bulldozing a house is personal for the owner but has a political component because it physically removes a palestinian footprint from the landscape. the way a murder is personal for the killer and those killed but in terms of how that murder is portrayed by the press in the national landscape impacts the national psyche, a national psyche that has been flooded by islamophobic media w/intent and purpose. then it engages the political landscape.

        you are obtuse and proud. that’s all i can come up with.

        that’s because you are refusing to engage in a political discussion. note, i did not say (nor would i ever say) “four black girls killed in the birmingham church on a sunday in 1963, that that was not a racist act, but a political act. ”

        of course it was racist, of course it is personal, but at the same time yonah, i would never say that particular attack did not have a political motive. people are not devoid of political agency yonah, that is just reality. it does not mean every racist crime is political.

        try engaging, sans the ad hominems, on the topic-the point i am making. disagree with it all you want, i don’t care. but the ad hominem crutch is not working in your favor imho.

      • Mooser on February 15, 2015, 2:34 pm

        “you are obtuse and proud.”

        “Nefarious ambitions”! You are “obtuse and proud”!

        Okay, we know two guys who stayed home on Saturday night reading Jane Austen. Try J-date.

      • Mooser on February 15, 2015, 2:45 pm

        “How about I say that the four black girls killed in the birmingham church on a sunday in 1963, that that was not a racist act, but a political act. how would you react to that?”

        See, Annie, now that is sensitivity like Momma used to slave over a hot stove all Friday to make!

      • CigarGod on February 15, 2015, 2:52 pm

      • CigarGod on February 15, 2015, 2:53 pm

        It’s possible Jim Morrison wrote “…his brain is squirming like a toad.” with yonah in mind.

    • annie on February 13, 2015, 12:11 am

      and i’d like to say one more thing. yonah had to purposely erase the url that accompanied that quote of mine he copied. so i guess he wasn’t interested in sharing the context, at all.

      this national media obsession with anti semitism is really starting to bore/annoy me.

      • seafoid on February 13, 2015, 12:49 am

        I think it’s part of their identity.
        And it is very tiresome.

        Using it to shut down debate.

      • annie on February 13, 2015, 1:15 am

        yeah.

      • Mooser on February 13, 2015, 10:50 am

        “This national media obsession with anti semitism is really starting to bore/annoy me.”

        Joe Scarborough invited anti-Zionist viewrs to send him anti-Semitic tweets, so he could show how awful and Jew-hating they are!
        There was a bad reaction to that, so he doubled down the next day. Wow!

      • wondering jew on February 14, 2015, 2:58 pm

        I’ve decided to discontinue my participation in this comments section given current circumstances.

        I owe tree a dissection of the analogy of the treaties of 39 and 67.

        I owe myself a response to seafoid’s declaration of a vengeance free fire zone in the Yehudi galut in response to Gaza.

        I wonder how a website that espouses dialogue can be moderated by someone who cares not a whit about dialogue.

        I wonder how a website is supposed to deal with commentators who ignore the rules.

        adios muchachos.

      • Philemon on February 14, 2015, 7:04 pm

        So, Yonah, are you banning yourself?

      • annie on February 14, 2015, 8:54 pm

        hardly

      • Mayhem on February 15, 2015, 8:46 am

        @Robbins, yes so tiresome isn’t it if you happen to be pushing your own agenda and anti-semitic events keep occurring to distract from your nefarious ambitions.

      • Mooser on February 15, 2015, 2:26 pm

        “adios muchachos.”

        Yonah, mon amigo, there’s an old hymn called “Almost Persuaded”. That’s your problem, isn’t it? A little more and you will be persuaded, so you are making a hasty exit. And as you say your debts (“I owe”) are far larger than your assets.

        I understand why you are leaving, but I still consider this abrupt leave-taking a serious blow to the tribal unity around here. Good-bye, Columbus! Bum Voyage!

      • Mooser on February 15, 2015, 2:31 pm

        ” events keep occurring to distract from your nefarious ambitions.”

        “Your nefarious ambitions”? Who the f–k are you supposed to be, Dudley Do-Right of the Mounties, catching Snidely Whiplash?

      • Walid on February 16, 2015, 6:47 am

        ” Adios muchachos.”

        FWIW, I’m not happy to see Yonah gone. He and his merry zio-companions add colour to this site. I hope he reconsiders.

      • Mooser on February 16, 2015, 10:44 am

        ” I hope he reconsiders.”

        Don’t worry, he already has. He does not want to leave, he can’t, he wants to be banned.

      • Mooser on February 16, 2015, 11:28 am

        Yo-yo-Yonah, Good-bye!
        Yo-yo-Yonah, don’t cry!
        The Intertubes that take you,
        Away from me, no words can tell how sad it makes me!
        Comment, Yonah, and then, oh,
        Do it over again!

        I’ll watch for e-mail, I know you won’t quit.
        And if you send a comment, it’ll be a big hit! (Only word I could think of to rhyme with “quit”)

        Yo-yo-Yonah, don’t cry.
        Yo-yo-Yonah, good bye!

      • CigarGod on February 16, 2015, 11:42 am

        Must be a lonely life for a vacuum salesman to go thru a whole neighborhood, throw dirt on the floor and never be thanked for it…let alone make a sale.
        The way yonah liked to slice and dice, maybe he’ll have better luck selling Vegi-matics.

      • Mooser on February 16, 2015, 1:03 pm

        If he stays here any longer he will start agreeing with the people here not because he’s learned anything, but simply because he is very, very suggestible. And that get’s him upset, and I don’t blame him.

  21. just on February 11, 2015, 10:43 pm

    Rania Khalek:

    “Finally watched this ridiculous press conference. Craig Hicks wife & her lawyer portray Hicks as a victim of the homeowners association.”

    “these victims were in the wrong place at the wrong time [their home?]…this highlights importance of access to mental health care…”

    “The worst part is the police and media have reproduced this absurd narrative, orchestrated by the suspect and his wife, as fact.”

    https://twitter.com/RaniaKhalek/status/565691258560348160

    • seafoid on February 11, 2015, 10:54 pm

      Economic stagnation + Fox incitement + guns + the US healthcare mess = very dangerous

  22. Kay24 on February 11, 2015, 10:50 pm

    Whenever I look at the pictures of these three great kids, I see happiness and their zest for life shining through. They were starting their lives and most probably would have been successful whatever they did. Their parents will have to live with this tragic loss for the rest of their lives.

  23. Sycamores on February 11, 2015, 11:56 pm

    Hicks’ wife, Karen Diane Haggerty, told reporters that she was “simply shocked” by the killings and expressed “deepest sympathy to all the victims.”

    “This incident had nothing to do with religion or the victims’ faith but was related to a longstanding parking dispute that my husband had with the neighbors,” she told reporters in front of her home.

    She described Hicks as a champion of individual rights in many areas, including race and same-sex marriage, and thinks that “everyone is equal.”

    Later Wednesday, she issued another statement, saying she’s divorcing her husband.

    the wife calls her husband “a champion of individual rights” and in another statement she’s divorcing him.

    something smells with these statements.

    important to note that

    On the UNC campus Wednesday night, several thousand people attended a candlelight vigil for the slain students. At nearby Raleigh, a moment of silence was planned during the night’s N.C. State-University of Virginia basketball game, said Chancellor Randy Woodson. A candlelight vigil is scheduled for Thursday from 6 to 8 p.m.

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/02/11/north-carolina-muslim-students-gunman-chapel-hill/23222317/

    • just on February 12, 2015, 12:07 am

      Thanks for that, Sycamores.

      You can see the photos of the vigil held tonight on the facebook page that was set up for the three victims, Our Three Winners.

      https://www.facebook.com/ourthreewinners

      Seems that the community is really standing with and grieving these beautiful people. That’s something good and heartening to come out of something so awful.

      • Bumblebye on February 12, 2015, 8:58 am

        There’s a superb picture of the campus vigil from a higher vantage point clearly showing the huge turnout of fellow students on another fb page, not sure how to link it so I’ll just name it – The Truth – Muslims, Christians and Jews Together should bring it up.

      • just on February 12, 2015, 9:34 am

        Thanks Bumblebye- I couldn’t pull it up.

        Here’s a short video of the vigil:

        http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2015/feb/12/chapel-hill-vigil-muslims-north-carolina-university-video

      • Bumblebye on February 12, 2015, 9:59 am

        The right one doesn’t come up via google, and I can’t see the url via the fb app! Bah!
        The full name of the group page is
        The Truth – Muslims, Christians and Jews Together for Palestine
        and it gets quite a bit of traffic and posts from around the world.

        Now I’ll go watch the video – thanks!

  24. Kay24 on February 12, 2015, 12:07 am

    It would be interesting to take the number of senseless killings of various religions, yearly, tote up the number of deaths by terrorism, sectarian, drones, and even the on going killings by Israel on the Palestinian people, and find out, exactly which religion loses their people violently. It is becoming obvious that the lives of some are disregarded as not worth, and that some are regarded as precious and important. I am tired of this false impression that those who are the real victims are always portrayed as the villains. Someone should clear this by the numbers.

  25. Kate on February 12, 2015, 1:06 am

    There has been a lot of mainstream media coverage of this tragedy. Perhaps they were a little late getting started, but they’ve made up for it. Very good interviews with family, etc. Every TV news organization has covered it (don’t know about Fox – I don’t look at that).
    However, they do seem to be trying to worm out of the ‘hate crime’ idea by focusing on the parking dispute. Not sure why this is – are they afraid this crime will reveal the depth of American hostility to Muslims, and so embolden ISIS etc. to carry out attacks? Or do they really believe that Islamophobia is not as prevalent as ‘anti-Semitism’, which they often exaggerate?

    • bryan on February 12, 2015, 6:50 am

      I would put it down to them and us – the powerless and the powerful.

    • on February 12, 2015, 8:48 am

      Or do they really believe that Islamophobia is not as prevalent as ‘anti-Semitism’, which they often exaggerate? –

      Call me crazy but it seems to me that violence against Muslims and those who are perceived to be Muslims dwarfs violence against Jews in the USA, does it not? Anti-Semitism is largely merely the deluded pereception of a people who have it drilled in their head that many non Jews are going to hate them for being Jewish no matter what year and what geographic location they find themselves.

      • Mooser on February 12, 2015, 5:08 pm

        Well, if the media can play down the Islamophobic aspect of these murders, they are going to have quite a job. It’s all over the suspect’s Facebook page and Internet presence.

      • wondering jew on February 12, 2015, 9:07 pm

        I’m wondering if the Overland Park Kansas April 13,2014 shooting counts for anything. Or if because the shooter only killed nonJews who were going to a Jewish Community Center, that Jews who are uptight as a result of what happened that day are merely being paranoid.

      • Mooser on February 13, 2015, 10:55 am

        “That Jews who are uptight as a result of what happened that day are merely being paranoid.”

        What on earth are you muttering about, Yonah? Listen, baby; everything is all-right, up-tight, and outta sight!

        Say Yonah, are you as big a Stevie Wonder fan as I? It would be something we have in common. C’mon, Yonah, follow the bouncing ball: “Everybody’s got a thing, but some don’t know how to handle it. Always reaching out in vain, accepting the things not worth having!”
        But don’t you worry about a thing, Yonah, I’ll be standing by your side when you check it ou-ou-ou-ou-ou-ou-out!

        Oh sorry, Yonah, got distracted. Anyway, Yonah, I don’t think anybody here would in any way deny the rights of Jews to be as uptight and/or paranoid, as any other American! Has anybody said they can’t be uptight, worried or paranoid? or even “uncomfortable” Of course they can, and nobody can stop them! I, personally, will fight for their rights.

      • Kris on February 13, 2015, 11:42 am

        yonah: “Or if because the shooter only killed nonJews who were going to a Jewish Community Center, that Jews who are uptight as a result of what happened that day are merely being paranoid.”

        What percentage of shooting victims in the U.S. per year are Jewish, or are shot because they are perceived to be Jewish, do you think? My guess would be vanishingly small. I would google to find out, but I have noticed that you are not influenced by actual facts, and you would choose to continue to be paranoid as part of your religious/ethnic/whatever identity.

        With guns so accessible that even a toddler sitting in a shopping cart can shoot and kill his mother while they are shopping at Walmart, you might want to put some energy into gun control advocacy instead of thrilling yourself with the idea that you are in some special kind of danger because Holocaust/antisemitism/blood libel, etc.

        But it’s a free country, and, as Weird Al Yankovich reminds us, you can “Dare to Be Stupid!”

      • Mooser on February 13, 2015, 3:05 pm

        “you might want to put some energy into gun control advocacy instead of thrilling yourself with the idea that you are in some special kind of danger because Holocaust/antisemitism/blood libel, etc.”

        Now, now, Kris, we all know Yonah is against assimilation! And even if the Gentiles cheated him by assimilating him into US citizenship as soon as he was born (The bastards! Depriving him of his choice) that doesn’t mean he doesn’t know the truth!
        And why are you talking bad about guns? Why if it wasn’t for the successful use of arms, guns, mortars and indiscriminate shelling, Zionism could never have taken hold in Palestine, or prevailed. Yonah ain’t scared of no guns! Guns are Zionism’s friends!

      • Mooser on February 13, 2015, 3:12 pm

        “I’m wondering if the Overland Park Kansas April 13,2014 shooting counts for anything. Or if because the shooter only killed nonJews….”

        Well, Yonah, I think you may be one of the few people with that problem. Most people know that non-Jewish lives do count for something.

  26. lysias on February 12, 2015, 11:56 am

    NYT: Chapel Hill Shooting of 3 Muslims, a Question of Motive details the tense atmosphere that Muslims in the Research Triangle of NC have lately been living in.

    By the way, “3 Dead in Chapel Hill” would be a good title for a song.

  27. lysias on February 12, 2015, 3:54 pm

    Dershowitz: Obama Made ‘Mistake’ With Kosher Deli Remarks:

    Pressed later about the phrasing — “randomly shoot a bunch of folks in a deli in Paris” — in a sharp exchange with ABC’s Jonathan Karl, White House Spokesman Josh Earnest said: “These individuals were not targeted by name. This is the point. … There were people other than Jews who were in that deli.”

    Dershowitz called the uproar that followed “part and parcel of the president’s unwillingness to talk about Islamic extremism.”

    “You always have to say that the vast majority of Muslims are good, decent people and they don’t believe in terrorism,” said Dershowitz. “But the terrorism that we’re experiencing now comes from a variant on Islam. Maybe a terrible variant, but we can’t just deny that reality.”

    If the president is trying to tamp down sectarian tensions and anti-Muslim hostility by not tying terrorism too closely to Islam, the effort is misguided, said Dershowitz.

    “I can introduce him to a guy named Chamberlain,” he said, alluding to the British prime minister who signed a peace accord with Nazi Germany in 1938.

    “That’s not called peacekeeping,” said Dershowitz. “That’s called accommodation and conciliation. You cannot be conciliatory to terrorists. You have to say what terrorism is and you have to call it by its name. Any terrorism has to be condemned.”

  28. just on February 12, 2015, 5:23 pm

    2/11/2015 WH Press Briefing :

    “Q One is, has the President been briefed on the situation in Chapel Hill with the shootings and the deaths of those Muslim students? And does he have any reaction — does the White House have any reaction?

    MR. EARNEST: There’s no specific reaction from the White House. I know that this is something that local law enforcement is investigating. I know that they, based on published reports, they have a suspect in custody. And I know that part of that investigation will include the circumstances that may have led to this act of violence and that will also include the investigation of questions about what motivation this individual may have had. So this is the very beginning of an ongoing local law enforcement investigation, and we’re going to await the results of that investigation before we say anything.

    Q So he’s not been in touch with the families or anything at this point?

    MR. EARNEST: No, he has not.”

    I personally think that he’s making a mistake. He could offer his condolences, and point out the sterling qualities of these victims of gun violence~ American Muslim victims. Also the ‘very best of America’.

    • lysias on February 12, 2015, 5:30 pm

      Note that Earnest did not answer the question on whether Obama had been briefed.

      • just on February 12, 2015, 7:28 pm

        Yep, lysias.

        In other news:

        “A US senator from Texas wants to enable Americans to travel across state lines with their concealed weapons.

        The Constitutional Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act, introduced this week by US Senator John Cornyn, would allow concealed weapons permits issued in one state to be recognized in any state.

        The nation’s largest gun rights group cheered the legislation, saying it would “respect the rights” of gun owners.”

        http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/feb/12/texas-senator-nra-bill-allow-concealed-weapons-nationwide#comment-47485564

        yee- haw. now, that’s jest what the US needs.

      • CigarGod on February 12, 2015, 7:52 pm

        Or…

        Hee Haaawwww!

      • Daniel Rich on February 12, 2015, 8:22 pm

        @ just,

        Q: yee- haw. now, that’s jest what the US needs.

        R: When I’m watching a Batman flick in a movie theater, I want to carry a concealed weapon too…

      • just on February 13, 2015, 11:48 pm

        Yep, Daniel Rich. ;((

        And now, in the wake of the stupid concealed- carry- anywhere- you- want- to- go- law, here’s this:

        “Utah inches closer to resurrecting firing squad as GOP leaders pass key vote”

        http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/feb/13/utah-pass-key-vote-firing-squad-proposal#comment-47537717

        Circling the drain.

  29. just on February 12, 2015, 9:08 pm

    Democracy Now had a very good interview today with Amira Ata, a longtime friend of Yusor, and Omid Safi, director of Duke University’s Islamic Studies Center. A couple of excerpts, but the entire piece is well worth watching/reading.

    “#MuslimLivesMatter: Loved Ones Honor NC Shooting Victims & Reject Police Dismissal of a Hate Crime

    (Omid Safi)And then the other aspect that we have seen has been the request of the family, and indeed the Muslim community here, to fully consider this as a possible hate crime. When you see a man breaking in with a gun, having threatened three people repeatedly over a course of weeks, and then shoot them in the head, as I mentioned, in an execution style, we’ve simply found it unbelievable that the police force would have initially dismissed this as a possible hate crime, or at least removed that possibility, minimized that possibility. And so I think the other aspect that the community here is wholeheartedly asking for is for this to be investigated as a serious hate crime.”

    AMY GOODMAN: That’s Craig Stephen Hicks’ attorney, Rob Maitland. Professor Safi, your response?

    OMID SAFI: I have a couple of responses. One of them is, I find it intriguing that whenever we have a white person engaging in horrific acts of violence, the immediate response is to say they’re a lone ranger, they’re disturbed, they’re marginalized, and possibly they suffer from mental illness. When we have people from a Muslim background who are coming, all of a sudden the conversation shifts to a culture of death and an ideology that somehow produces this, and then there’s an expectation of a communal apology on behalf of it.

    Also on behalf of people who deeply care about issues of mental illness, I think it’s really important to say that while we do need extraordinary commitment to mental health here in North Carolina, where many of the institutions have in fact been shut down under Republican administration, the association between mental illness and violence is simply something that is not bore out by the facts on the ground.

    And the second thing that I would say that came out of that really unacceptable presentation yesterday that you just alluded to is that the same lawyer also said that the three victims were simply in the wrong place at the wrong time. They were in their own home. Since when is being in one’s own house being in the wrong place? Where are we supposed to be?”

    http://www.democracynow.org/2015/2/12/muslimlivesmatter_loved_ones_honor_nc_shooting

  30. just on February 13, 2015, 5:03 pm

    Max B:

    “There are indications that the #ChapelHillShooting may have been more horrific than we have been told.”

    https://twitter.com/MaxBlumenthal/status/566347793149591552

  31. just on February 13, 2015, 7:55 pm

    “This morning, Dr. Susanne Barakat, the sister of Deah Barakat, one of the three victims, appeared on MSNBC’s Morning Joe to rebut the claim that her brother died over a mere dispute over parking. Host Joe Scarborough asked Barakat if she agrees with Chapel Hill that the killing was over a parking space:

    BARAKAT: I think it’s absolutely insulting, insensitive and outrageous that the first thing they come out and say and issue a statement that this is a parking dispute I’m not sure who they spoke to, because it took me all of five minutes of talking to his former roommate — who they had notreached out to — to give me details, information, text messages. […] [My brother Deah] went to the extent of printing out all of the spots and highlighting which ones were visitor parking spots that can be parked in avoiding the one that he, the neighbor had issues with him parking in. That was not enough.”

    http://www.alternet.org/chapel-hill-victims-sister-police-insulting-and-outrageous-saying-killing-happened-over-parking

  32. just on February 13, 2015, 11:14 pm

    “Vigils for North Carolina students held across US: ‘We’re here for each other’

    Students from Philadelphia to Los Angeles organised prayer vigils in the wake of the murders of three Muslim students in North Carolina”

    http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/feb/13/vigils-north-carolina-students-campuses-across-us#comment-47537640

  33. Walid on February 14, 2015, 2:56 pm

    A group of activists in Toronto conducted an experiment that demonstrated how good-natured are Canadian people, The project was led by a person that had received a death threat in the aftermath of Charlie Hebdo.

    A blindfolded man stood on a Toronto street with arms outstretched between 2 posters that said:

    “I am a Muslim
    I am labled as a terrorist” and

    “I trust you
    Do you trust me”
    Give me a hug”

    And many good-natured Canadians did. The Youtube of the scene received 1.2 million hits in the 15 days that ended this afternoon. I’d be curious to know how such an experiment would go in the US?

    • Walid on February 14, 2015, 3:09 pm

      There was a previous experiment conducted in Canada, equally interesting. After a soldier guarding Parliament was shot last fall, a woman is standing on the street with a poster saying:

      “I am a Muslim, so that makes me…”

      And passers-by are invited to complete the sentence. See what Canadians had to say:

    • oldgeezer on February 14, 2015, 3:53 pm

      Beautiful. I notice in walids video a terrorist written down. Luckily a small minority are that racist and narrow minded.

      I would hope similar results would occur elsewhere. Not likely in Israel of course. The racism is too ingrained in the culture.

      • Walid on February 14, 2015, 4:28 pm

        The day before the Chapel Hill assassinations, there was somewhat a similar shooting incident in which Mustafa Mattan, aged 28 was shot in the apartment he was sharing with his brother and other room mates in Fort McMurray, Alberta, Canada. The killer got away, but just as with the killings in Chapel Hill that did not draw much attention in the US press, the same lack of attention in Canada was seen with the Mattan killing. People-wise, Alberta reminds a lot of North Carolina.

        http://www.ibtimes.com/mustafa-mattan-shooting-muslims-react-murder-canada-ignored-mainstream-media-1815664

        Another experiment that shows the good-naturedness of the Canadian people with a surprising dramatic ending. I wanted to post these videos on Samah’s thread but couldn’t find it.

  34. just on February 14, 2015, 3:17 pm

    Walid~ wrt Canada, have you seen this?

    “Police have charged two people with conspiracy to commit murder in the case of a foiled plot to kill a large number of people at the Halifax Shopping Centre in the city’s west end.

    American Lindsay Kantha Souvannarath from Geneva, Illinois, 23, and Randall Steven Shepherd from Halifax, 20, have been charged.”

    http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/canada/nova-scotia/randall-steven-shepherd-lindsay-kantha-souvannarath-charged-in-halifax-shooting-plot-1.2957685

    • oldgeezer on February 14, 2015, 3:35 pm

      I saw that earlier today. It will be interesting when the details come out. Sounds more like a columbine style attack than anything driven by other causes

    • Walid on February 14, 2015, 3:38 pm

      Just, I saw a short clip on the news but not much more on it than what you and the CBC wrote. It’s looking like simply vicious people out to kill people for thrills, probably like the guy that killed the 3 we’re discussing here. We’ll have to wait for the investigations in both places.

      • just on February 14, 2015, 4:15 pm

        Walid~ the people in Canada sound like mass shooters who wanted to kill lots of folks at a mall. They sound like the kind of mass shooters that the US has had (too) much experience with.

        Hicks’ actions were not the same~ his were targeted executions~ up close and personal. Not at all random.

        The Guardian:

        “Despite giving few details, officials were careful to distinguish the planned shooting from a “terrorist” attack, their characterization of the attack that paralysed Ottawa in October when a troubled man went on a shooting rampage in parliament.

        Earlier on Saturday, federal justice minister Peter MacKay said: “This appeared to be a group of murderous misfits that were coming here, or were living here, and prepared to wreak havoc and mayhem on our community.

        “This group of individuals we would not define as a terrorist group,” Brennan said. “They were four individuals that had a friendship. Their friendship was not based on culture or ideology. They were four individuals who formed a friendship who decided to plan and commit a heinous crime.”

        Blais added: “The important thing is to realize that this has nothing to do with ethnic, political considerations, at least at this point.”

        http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/14/canada-police-mass-shooting-foiled

      • Walid on February 14, 2015, 4:38 pm

        Just, there appears to be more smoke being thrown on the Hicks story than actual facts that should have surfaced by now. For one thing, people don’t appear to be buying into the parking spot angle.

        You could say that Hicks could have randomy picked his victims from an available choice of Moslem-dressed people. I can’t help thinking that the North Carolina authorities are trying to take this story away from what really happened . We are guessing at this point. Why did Hicks give himself up?

  35. Kathleen on February 15, 2015, 12:13 am

    The Denmark killings been front and center all day at Huff Po. Kayla’s tragic death was front and center there for two days. The horrible killings of these three Muslims student in N.C. never ever made front and center at Huff Po. Talk about racism.

    So hope an organization like FAIR investigates these obvious biases about the value of lives at Huff Po and in the rest of our MSM. Whose lives matter when they are violently killed. Who deserves coverage. Who counts

    • Kay24 on February 15, 2015, 12:29 am

      Kathleen I may be wrong, but I vaguely remember seeing the Chapel Hill murders as front headlines. The now sad image of the three beaming kids was the picture of that article.

      Still, I get your point, an Al Jazeera article calls it Western media bigotry.

      • Kathleen on February 15, 2015, 10:15 am

        I could have missed it. But could not have been there for long. I was checking many times a day after that horrible killing. Walk in an just put bullets in their heads. Reminded me of the Israeli soldiers executions of the activist on the Mavi Marmara. Read the UN report on those killing. Brutal…bullets to the head. Groveling slime buckets…people who can murder like this

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