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Chair of Democratic National Committee opposes Jewish intermarriage and MSNBC showing Gaza carnage

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A Florida politics blog has published an audio of Debbie Wasserman Schultz, the chair of the Democratic National Committee, speaking to a Jewish audience in Florida last month right after the French terror attacks. It’s getting pick-up because of Wasserman Schultz’s comments on Jewish assimilation and intermarriage, Islamic radicalism, and MSNBC’s allegedly-biased coverage in favor of Palestine.

Here’s the audio:


After mentioning her 24-year-marriage and her three children, Wasserman Schultz says:

We have the problem of assimilation, we have the problem of intermarriage, we have a problem that too many generations of Jews don’t realize the importance of our institutions, strengthening our community, particularly with the rise of anti-Semitism and global intolerance, which obviously we saw in horrific technicolor in just the last week in Paris.

Every time we think that we can maybe ease back a bit and there has been progress, we are reminded that people hate us because of who we are.

And I don’t want to say that we are never safe, because I don’t believe that’s true, but… unfortunately what happens particularly with the global war on terror, and the Islamic fundamentalists that are combatting it, and leading it, we are the crux of the reason that they are engaged in that fight.

The comments have become an issue. Not at the level that in the 2000 Republican presidential campaign season, candidates’ visits to a school that barred dating between Catholics and non-Catholics became an issue. But an issue. And Wasserman Schultz has now walked back the comments. NBC News:

“At an annual Jewish community event in my congressional district, I spoke about my personal connection to Judaism and in a larger context about the loss of Jewish identity and the importance of connecting younger generations to the institutions and values that make up our community. I do not oppose intermarriage; in fact, members of my family, including my husband, are a product of it,” the Florida Democrat said in a statement.

More from the audio. Wasserman Schultz spoke of turning on the television before coming to the event, and seeing MSNBC covering Gaza:

What was troubling to me was that the segment that was on was a panoramic view of the results of the war in Gaza from the Palestinian perspective. Not that there isn’t horror that went on there. But the way it was promoted, the way it was talked about… Clearly they were highlighting what Israel had done to Gaza and the plight of Palestinians. My first thought was where is the balance, where is the spotlight on what Jewish children in Israel go through from being victims of rocket attacks?

The media’s coverage — and it’s not just MSNBC — I’ve seen it on CNN and even in the broadcast media as well. We have work to do. We have work to do to educate and to make sure that people understand there’s a very simple solution to this. It’s called recognize Israel’s right to exist as a Jewish and Democratic state. Let’s make sure that we can adopt a two-state solution.

Wasserman Schultz concluded by saying that we have to makes sure that people “in communities around the world” stop “raising their children to hate us, to hate Israel and hate Jews simply because of who we are.”

I think Wasserman Schultz touched on a very important issue, the role of assimilation in ethnic friction. Just yesterday in the Washington Post, Richard Cohen, another big supporter of Israel, wrote that anti-Semitism is on the rise because Muslims are not assimilating:

The remedy — the cure [to anti-Semitism] — is education and assimilation. In the United States, high levels of anti-Semitism in the Hispanic population dissipate with assimilation. The Anti-Defamation League tells us that, while 12 percent of all Americans are anti-Semites, the figure for foreign-born Hispanics is an astounding 36 percent. But for Hispanics born in the United States, the figure is only 14 percent. America is adept at assimilation. Europe is lousy at it. Europe needs work.

And meantime Wasserman Schultz wants Jews not to assimilate but strengthen Jewish institutions– which support Israel no matter what, ethnocentric actions that foster rage toward Jews for being contemptuous of Palestinian human rights.

But the chair of the Democratic National Committee doesn’t see any problem in Israel’s conduct. The reason she’s the Democratic chair, by the way, is surely because this “fierce ally of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC)” can raise money from the Jewish community. And the Democratic Party’s reliance on such funds is the reason that President Obama helped quash a grassroots effort at the Democratic convention to remove the plank from the party platform in 2012 saying that Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. That grassroots criticism of Israel inside the Democratic Party is sure to build.

 

 

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274 Responses

  1. Scott
    Scott on February 4, 2015, 11:06 am

    Really good point about divergent attitudes towards assimilation re Richard Cohen and Muslims column.

    • Krauss
      Krauss on February 4, 2015, 12:17 pm

      Cohen calls for assimiliation of muslims in Europe because he thinks of what is best for Jews, not Europe.

      Similarily, if intermarriage among Jews declined drastically, I do not think he would write hysterical columns lamenting that, if anything he’d probably be very pleased about it.

      Anti-Semitism in Europe today is indeed mostly a product of muslim immigrants. This is why its safer for Jews in Poland to wear a yarmulke than it is for one in Paris or in London.

      But that doesn’t change the fact that his view of Europe is coming from a very ethnocentric lens, rather than a general principle he holds for all countries.

      • Keith
        Keith on February 4, 2015, 5:47 pm

        KRAUSS- “This is why its safer for Jews in Poland to wear a yarmulke than it is for one in Paris or in London.”

        I can’t help but wonder how many unarmed US Blacks who were shot to death by the police would be alive today if they were wearing a yarmulke?

      • on February 4, 2015, 7:50 pm

        Anti-Semitism in Europe today is indeed mostly a delusion. In reality, there is plenty of opposition to the colonial racist settler state that is called anti-Semitism. There is also a small (so far) amount of blowback from the violent suppression of Muslims that is not anti-Semitism, but a to be expected reaction to oppression.

      • Mooser
        Mooser on February 4, 2015, 8:48 pm

        “Anti-Semitism in Europe today is indeed mostly a product of muslim immigrants”

        My, oh freakin my, how soon we forget. And how many millions of Jews does the anti-Semitism imported by Muslim immigrants to Europe kill? Unbelievable.

      • Chu
        Chu on February 5, 2015, 10:06 am

        I’m not sure if I’d attribute it Muslim immigrants.

        Poll: British People Dislike Israel More Than Iran – (refer to page 12) http://www.chathamhouse.org/sites/files/chathamhouse/field/field_document/20150129YouGovRaines.pdf?dm_i=1TY5,34ZC7,BHZIRQ,B8VH2,1

        which of the following do you feel especially unfavourable towards? in 2012 Israel was at 18% in 2014 it was at 35%. (2nd place/ N. Korea is remains the highest at 47%)

      • hophmi
        hophmi on February 5, 2015, 10:53 am

        “I can’t help but wonder how many unarmed US Blacks who were shot to death by the police would be alive today if they were wearing a yarmulke?”

        None.

        “Anti-Semitism in Europe today is indeed mostly a delusion.”

        You’re a denialist. There is voluminous evidence to back up the assertion that antisemitism has skyrocketed, and your belief that antisemitism is a delusion is anti-scientific, and thus, meaningless.

      • annie
        annie on February 5, 2015, 11:07 am

        islamophobia is a much more widespread problem in europe than anti semitism, according to polls released last year (i tweeted them at the time but can’t find them). your singularly expressed one side concern for the lessor of the two problems is noted.

      • Keith
        Keith on February 5, 2015, 12:09 pm

        HOPHMI- “None.”

        None? In the last ten years, how many unarmed Jews wearing yarmulkas have been shot to death by police? I’ll bet that seeing a yarmulka would cause a cop to hesitate before pulling the trigger because he would realize the potential for serious consequences. The notion that we are all equal before the law is BS, and you as a lawyer should be aware of that.

      • hophmi
        hophmi on February 5, 2015, 1:10 pm

        “None? In the last ten years, how many unarmed Jews wearing yarmulkas have been shot to death by police? ”

        In 1999, NYPD killed an orthodox guy who was wielding a hammer, but whom most agree posed no serious threat to police.

        http://www.nytimes.com/1999/08/31/nyregion/disturbed-man-wielding-a-hammer-is-killed-by-police-in-brooklyn.html

        My point was that racism has to do with skin color, and not head coverings. I do not believe that a yarmulke would make a difference to people who are acculturated to seeing black people differently than people of other races.

        “islamophobia is a much more widespread problem in europe than anti semitism”

        I’ve commented here a number of times that Islamophobia is a serious problem in Europe, but going by a per capita analysis, I believe that you’ll find that there are more attacks on Jews as a percentage of population than there are Muslims, and that anti-Jewish and anti-Muslim attitude are fairly close to one another. Regardless, while Europe’s failure to integrate Muslims into European society contributes to the problem of Muslim antisemitism, it is not a complete explanation. First of all, there has been a considerable rise in antisemitic far-right parties, like Golden Dawn in Greece and Jobbik in Hungary, both parties with significant percentages of MPs in their respective parliaments. That suggests that when the chips are down, Europeans are still inclined to blame the Jews. Second of all, the failure of Europeans to integrate Muslims is not itself anywhere near a complete explanation for Muslim antisemitism, which is more a function of what Muslims brought from their countries of origin. Again, social science data shows that close to half the Muslims in Europe think Jews are untrustworthy, several times the number of the total Europeans who hold that http://www.wzb.eu/en/press-release/islamic-fundamentalism-is-widely-spread

        And again, comparing Islamophobia and antisemitism is really apples and oranges in a sense. There are far more Muslims in Europe than there are Jews. And there is a serious, serious problem in Europe with Islamic radicalism, as demonstrated by social science surveys. Jews aren’t attacking French cartoonists. They aren’t putting bombs on British and Spanish trains. They aren’t shooting up museums in Brussels. They aren’t killing Dutch filmmakers. They aren’t stabbing soldiers in the street. They are just trying to live their lives, quite highly assimilated lives, by the way, in peace and quiet. So I don’t think the problems can, or should, be compared, but the notion that one is more serious than the other is simply wrong.

      • Mooser
        Mooser on February 5, 2015, 5:49 pm

        Why, it’s getting so bad, people are starting to call yarmulkes “watch-out caps”.

      • Keith
        Keith on February 5, 2015, 6:03 pm

        HOPHMI- “In 1999, NYPD killed an orthodox guy who was wielding a hammer, but whom most agree posed no serious threat to police.”

        So the short answer to my question is “none.” But look at how much effort you go to spin this to conform with your “Jews are victims” hasbara. Sixteen years ago an Orthodox Jew yielding a hammer and refusing to drop it after lengthy appeals, strikes a police officer 4 times on the arm with the hammer and is then shot. Which is not to say that the shooting was justified. I agree that they probably should have been able to disarm him without shooting him. However, the fact remains that one hammer yielding victim in 16 years looks pretty tame compared to what happens to other groups.

        Hophmi- “My point was that racism has to do with skin color, and not head coverings. I do not believe that a yarmulke would make a difference to people who are acculturated to seeing black people differently than people of other races.”

        Oh really? Nothing but racism operating here? Okay, substitute “wearing a suite and carrying a briefcase” for yarmulke. Same answer? No effect? Don’t tell me that you are unaware that a primary function of the police is to keep the underclass in line. Racism is a factor, however, cops are aware of who has power and who doesn’t, and are much more reluctant to use force, particularly lethal force, if they have reason to believe that it could come back to haunt them. And if a couple of Jews were gunned down while reaching for their wallets, you better believe that someone would pay a price. Not that they shouldn’t mind you, but I think it is arguable that wearing a yarmulke (the symbol of a powerful group) just might afford poor blacks some protection. At least until Abe Foxman sued them for impersonating a Jew.

      • on February 7, 2015, 9:15 am

        None? In the last ten years, how many unarmed Jews wearing yarmulkas have been shot to death by police? ”

        In 1999, NYPD killed an orthodox guy who was wielding a hammer, but whom most agree posed no serious threat to police. –

        hophmi has to go back 17 years to prove that a Jew wearing a yarmulka was shot by the police in the last ten years? Is 17 now less than 10 in Zio math?

  2. seanmcbride
    seanmcbride on February 4, 2015, 11:17 am

    A no-brainer: ethnic friction is a function of ethnocentrism. The more ethnocentric you are, the more ethnic friction you will provoke and encounter.

    Levels and degrees of ethnocentrism among individuals and groups are easy to measure — simply count up the number of ethnocentric references in their discourse. Some levels of ethnocentrism cross the line into a major mental disorder — a form of OCD.

    Re: DWS — a classic liberal Zionist, with all the absurd self-contradictions that come with the type. Her true feelings were expressed in her private remarks — not in the public walkback.

    • OyVey00
      OyVey00 on February 4, 2015, 10:46 pm

      I actually suffer from OCD and thus can attest to that. Obsession with purity is a big theme in OCD and for nationalist types that often turns into obsession with racial purity.

      I am no exception to this either, although I’m more obsessed with emotional and sexual purity. But interracial relations sometimes bother me, similar to how other people get bothered by – say – incest (which I have in return no kind of negative feelings for). That I’m mixed myself doesn’t exactly make it less complicated either.

      • annie
        annie on February 4, 2015, 11:06 pm

        lol, there is such a thing as too much information oyvey.

      • Mooser
        Mooser on February 4, 2015, 11:45 pm

        “But interracial relations sometimes bother me, similar to how other people get bothered by – say – incest (which I have in return no kind of negative feelings for).”

        Ah, yes, just the ordinary, run-of-the-mill ratepayer you’ll find at any average facility for the criminally insane.

        And OyVey00, I got bad news for you, everybody is pretty much “mixed.”

      • oldgeezer
        oldgeezer on February 5, 2015, 12:12 am

        You’ve admitted to being a racist and now you’re OCD and ok with incest.

        Do they really let you outside unattended?

      • Mooser
        Mooser on February 5, 2015, 12:23 am

        “But interracial relations sometimes bother me, similar to how other people get bothered by – say – incest (which I have in return no kind of negative feelings for)”

        So I thought about your problem, (if indeed it is a problem, of course) and I think I’ve come up with something that can help you, “OyVey00”.
        When you see an inter-racial couple, instead of getting angry, just imagine the girl was your sister, daughter, or Mom, and your problem is solved!

        So how easy that is? Put that positive feeling about incest to good use, to counter racism!

        Now, I ask you, folks, could Schumley Boteach have done any better?

  3. pgtl10
    pgtl10 on February 4, 2015, 11:29 am

    Richard Cohen also once said he gags when he sees interracial couples so he is no saint.

    You can’t want assimilation from one group while expecting people to respect a “Jewish state”. Zionist want there cake and to eat it too.

  4. amigo
    amigo on February 4, 2015, 11:35 am

    “Wasserman Schultz concluded by saying that we have to makes sure that people “in communities around the world” stop “raising their children to hate us, to hate Israel and hate Jews simply because of who we are.”

    Maybe you should try condemning the Apartheid racist oppressive criminal enterprise that is your so called Jewish and democratic state if you want to be liked .What your doing is hardly conducive to making others shower you with the love you so desire and need.

    The more zionist apologists open their mouths , the deeper they dig themselves into the hole.

    Every other group but Jews, must assimilate .No exceptional ism there, huh.

    Wasserman , we do not hate you because you are Jewish.We hate you because you use Jewishness/Judaism to justify crimes and oppression of others.And you make a total fool of yourself in doing so.

    • Chu
      Chu on February 4, 2015, 11:54 am

      I think the point here is also that the pro-Israel network seems too often to lack the capacity as a group to be self-reflective, all the while aiming to use their trademarked ‘antisemitism’ (racism) stamp on anything that remotely may seem dubious to their group advancement.

      And notice how Richard Cohen runs to his ‘scientific’ charts to formulate an equation. Imagine some waspy org. doing the same thing. Cohen and Co. would denounce them as bigots of the highest order.

      • American
        American on February 4, 2015, 12:01 pm

        ” lacks the capacity as a group to be self-reflective ”…Chu

        A huge understatement if there ever was one.
        I am gonna chalk it up to Avigails’s explaination about how their brains have literally been altered by generations of mythical beliefs and passing on of the trauma mentality.

      • seanmcbride
        seanmcbride on February 4, 2015, 12:29 pm

        American,

        “I am gonna chalk it up to Avigails’s explaination about how their brains have literally been altered by generations of mythical beliefs and passing on of the trauma mentality.”

        Don’t overlook the role of endogamy in creating peculiar mental states and cultural attitudes.

        Endogamy: “the custom of marrying only within the limits of a local community, clan, or tribe.”

        Endogamy: “the fusion of reproductive cells from related individuals; inbreeding; self-pollination.”

        Think self-reinforcing feedback loops.

        Endogamy > xenophobia.

      • Mooser
        Mooser on February 4, 2015, 8:55 pm

        “I am gonna chalk it up to Avigails’s explaination about how their brains have literally been altered by generations of mythical beliefs and passing on of the trauma mentality”

        I am afraid that does not agree with the research. Research says: a full-on Ziocaine Syndrome can be acquired at any stage of life, irrespective of background. Naturally, it’s most common among certain groups of people, where it may actually be encouraged, but it seems to have an entirely behavioral, not genetic basis.
        And what about Ziocaine Syndrome-by-Proxy?

        Also, many people who are addicted to PEP pilpuls don’t develop a full Syndrome until later life.

      • Mooser
        Mooser on February 5, 2015, 5:51 pm

        “Think self-reinforcing feedback loops.”

        And perpetual motion! And anti-gravity generators!

    • American
      American on February 4, 2015, 12:23 pm

      amigo February 4, 2015, 11:35 am

      “Wasserman Schultz concluded by saying that we have to makes sure that people “in communities around the world” stop “raising their children to hate us, to hate Israel and hate Jews simply because of who we are.”

      They are too dumb to know how to do that.
      Here’s a tip for them….STFU about how people hate you simply because of who you are.
      Its your *attitude* and what *you do* honey.
      Quit your *scapegoating* the world as anti semites for it’s valid opposition to the Israeli crimes you support in Israel.
      It only infuriates people more.

      • Marnie
        Marnie on February 5, 2015, 9:22 am

        She apparently has no idea what it’s like to be any shade other than peach/pink. What a disgusting display of victimhood. Does this make anyone else want to punch something?

        Oh right, and she’s bothered by scenes of carnage in Gaza because it infringes on her status as a victim when people are shown actual victims? Life’s a bitch Lil’ Debbie.

    • annie
      annie on February 4, 2015, 12:28 pm

      Wasserman , we do not hate you because you are Jewish.We hate you because you use Jewishness/Judaism to justify crimes and oppression of others.

      i don’t hate her. just thought i’d get that out of the way because you said “we”.

      this:

      Clearly they were highlighting what Israel had done to Gaza and the plight of Palestinians. My first thought was where is the balance, where is the spotlight on what Jewish children in Israel go through from being victims of rocket attacks?

      my first thought when i heard this recording yesterday was “there is no balance in the atrocities and how could there be under the circumstance”. it is not the job of the media to create a situational equanimity in the mind of the viewer. balanced reporting, if it would include “spotlight on what Jewish children in Israel go through from being victims of rocket attacks” would therefore require an additional segment, which would take hours to “spotlight”, how palestinian children are victimized.

      think about it. it would akin to “balancing” the suffering of enduring the pain of one death compared to hundreds. when there is no balance in real life, balanced coverage will reflect that.

      • amigo
        amigo on February 4, 2015, 2:23 pm

        “i don’t hate her. just thought i’d get that out of the way because you said “we”. “Annie

        Annie, she used the word hate.I simply stuck with her term but changed the context.Also I did not mean to speak for others here but she was speaking to anyone who does not assimilate to the zionist mantra.Hence the use of “we”. Maybe a little hate might not go astray on her and her ilk.Love and generosity does not seem to work.Au contraire, it seems to make them ever more aggressive and ruthless.

        How is the Bay Area .What happened to the Niners or are you a Raiders fan if indeed you follow Football at all.Is Mooser still nursing his wounds after the Flight of the Hawks.

      • annie
        annie on February 4, 2015, 2:38 pm

        amigo, i am seahawks all the way. plus, beast mode is from oakland. i’m new to football (because of my son) and aside from attending one live seahawks game a few years ago (which was fun!) this was the first time i had ever watched an entire live tv game, much less a superbowl game. i just found the end devastating ..and did you read zirin’s latest article in the nation about it? wow, super crushing if true. i adore beastmode.

        btw, i have an aversion to the word hate (and the expression of hatred) especially when attributing it to ones adversaries (which they always do!). i think it weakens the warrior and erodes a person (or a movement) from the inside. it damages the hater more than the intended target. that’s just my personal opinion and the accusation by pro israel posters (that we are full of hate) is a very powerful hasbara tool which is continuously applied on a daily basis against pro palestinian advocates. so, i think people who come from a place of hatred are actually strengthening the tools of their opponent. not smart. yes, they use the word hate ALL the time but i don’t think it’s something we should emulate, either in thought, action or word.

        xx
        a

      • on February 4, 2015, 7:53 pm

        Spotlight children not being harmed but being fear mongered by their own community instead of the kids actually being murdered by Israel? WTF is wrong with these people?

      • Mooser
        Mooser on February 4, 2015, 9:04 pm

        “Is Mooser still nursing his wounds after the Flight of the Hawks.”

        Thanks for your concern. But we recovered quickly, and now I’ve gone back to watching the web-cams focused on Bertha’s cutter-head replacement.

      • Mooser
        Mooser on February 4, 2015, 10:34 pm

        “i don’t hate her.”

        I can’t feel anything but sorry for a woman who puts her eye-liner on up-side down.

      • annie
        annie on February 4, 2015, 10:52 pm

        mooser, first bertha and then the eyeliner. i’m infirm with a bad back at the moment (since friggin saturday!) , could you please not make me laugh like that, it hurts too much.

      • Mooser
        Mooser on February 5, 2015, 12:15 am

        “could you please not make me laugh like that, it hurts too much.”

        Sorry, sorry. I hope your back feels better soon. One or two of my comments every four to six hours is the usual adult dose. The nervous, infirm or debilitated may only be able to tolerate half that. They are also available in the one-quart economy, or archive, size for larger households. Nor recommended for children under six. Read the label and observe all precautions. Discontinue if lightheadedness, fallen arches ( the agony of the feet), the thrill of victory, dizziness, verdigris, eczema, the heartbreak of psoriasis, that full, bloated feeling, or aliens bursting from your chest cavity occurs. Consult your doctor. Consult your lawyer, hell, consult your Astrologer or consult your consultant, but don’t come crying to me! I told you not to read too many!
        I hope your back feel better soon.

      • Philemon
        Philemon on February 8, 2015, 7:45 pm

        “I can’t feel anything but sorry for a woman who puts her eye-liner on up-side down.”

        Mooser, admit it, that was Mrs. Mooser’s contribution. You can’t fool me; you wouldn’t have noticed that on your own.

        And Annie, as much as I sympathize with your back, and I know just how it feels, you shouldn’t read Mooser’s comments when it hurts you to laugh.

      • Mooser
        Mooser on February 8, 2015, 8:48 pm

        And don’t sell those Bertha-cams short. It’s actually pretty exciting stuff, if you like TBMs. And honestly, now, who doesn’t?

    • bintbiba
      bintbiba on February 4, 2015, 12:39 pm

      DWS … You are not hated ( by some ) for what you ARE ….
      You are hated by many for what SOME of you do and that you insist on your support regardless .
      That is the Shonda of it.

      • Stephen Shenfield
        Stephen Shenfield on February 4, 2015, 4:57 pm

        The Zionists WANT to be “hated for what they are.” They are addicted to anti-Semitism. They crave it. It confirms and strengthens their ideology. When they say “we are hated for what we are” they are actually pleading: “Please, please, please hate us for what we are, as you did in the good old days, so that we do not have to look critically at what we do.”

        Loving them may not help, but hating them entrenches their delusions more deeply. The best response is: “We do not hate YOU. We hate what you DO” — because that directly challenges their delusion about why they are hated. (Isn’t there a Christian saying about “hating the sin not the sinner?”)

      • Bornajoo
        Bornajoo on February 4, 2015, 6:57 pm

        @Stephen Shenfield

        Really good point!

      • Keith
        Keith on February 4, 2015, 5:59 pm

        STEPHEN SHENFIELD- “The Zionists WANT to be “hated for what they are.”

        You got that right! Perceived anti-Semitism is the mother’s milk of Zionism.

      • American
        American on February 4, 2015, 8:09 pm

        Stephen Shenfield February 4, 2015, 4:57 pm

        The Zionists WANT to be “hated for what they are.” They are addicted to anti-Semitism ->>>>>>>>>>>>

        In my observation there are so many different diaspora zionist motivated or attracted to israel and zionism by gawd knows what in their individual psyches it impossible to nail down what drives all of them to one thing—-but I do agree probably 99% are addicted to the idea of the the Jews vr the World and anti semitism.

        Looking at the various zios here some of them want to identify with
        with ‘jewish warriorism’ that Israel represents….identifying with ‘power’ and being tough.
        Other want to be treated ‘special’ , want some entitlement status because of the holocaust even though most of them were likely no where near Europe or lost any immediately family. They use being jewish like a bad cop with bully club, like a special license to insult and beat up people without being called on it.
        I don’t think the uber zionist though are at all afraid of anti semitism–for them its just an excuse for all the crimes they commit and demands they make on the world. You can’t blame us for anything we do because we are only doing it to protect ourselves from the a-s world—–its a con.
        There might be some zionist that are motivated by fear because that is what they were raised on so they think Israel is some safety guarantee.

        What is instructive is the differences in *real* holocaust suriviors and by real I mean the ones that survived the camps. Some of them lust after revenge and making the world pay—then there are others that came thru with their humanity intact and speak against the inhumanity of Israel and zionism. They are the strong ones, the zionist are actually the weak inferior ones imo.

      • Philemon
        Philemon on February 4, 2015, 8:32 pm

        ‘Too much anti-semitism is not good because it leads to genocide. No anti-semitism is also not good because there would then be no immigration to Israel. What we need is a moderate anti-semitism.'” -Golda Meir

        Michel Warschawski, On the Border, English tran. Levi Laub (Cambridge, MA: South End Press 2005) p. 154. (isbn=0896087328, 9780896087323)

        But if you run out of anti-semites, you can always invent them! “Perceived anti-semitism” is the ticket.

        So, per little Debbie, we’re good to go.

        Imaginary anti-semites are just as good as real ones, provided that DNC donors give her their money.

      • Mooser
        Mooser on February 5, 2015, 6:00 pm

        “I don’t think the uber zionist though are at all afraid of anti semitism–for them its just an excuse for all the crimes they commit and demands they make on the world.”

        And what has anti-Semitism ever done to them? Why on earth should they be afraid of it? As far as they know, that whole anti-semitism thing, both being the object of it, and accusing others of harboring it or even acting on it, is a bottomless well they can draw from.

    • Bornajoo
      Bornajoo on February 4, 2015, 3:05 pm

      “Wasserman , we do not hate you because you are Jewish. – We hate you because you use Jewishness/Judaism to justify crimes and oppression of others.And you make a total fool of yourself in doing so.”

      +1 Amigo!

      • FrankinHonduras
        FrankinHonduras on February 5, 2015, 8:40 am

        Thanks for explaining and exposing her racism, and support of Zionism killing 1,000’s of innocent lives and duping the US into supporting them. No wonder USA is called the great Satan, aptly applies for these and other atrocities. Makes Hitler look like a Christian. Oops, they both say they are Christians, don’t they? Real Christians don’t condemn Islam in mass, and plenty of examples world wide were Christians/Muslims/Jews live together in peace and harmony, rejoicing in worshipping and following the one true God.

    • hophmi
      hophmi on February 5, 2015, 10:54 am

      “Every other group but Jews, must assimilate”

      Please tell me where I can find a study to support your assertion that Jews have not assimilated. Thanks. If you can’t find it, I’ll assume that you have no clue what you’re talking about.

      • Mooser
        Mooser on February 5, 2015, 6:04 pm

        Gee, I don’t know, maybe we ought to (I know, I know, I’m a nut) define “assimilation” and “acculturation” for the purposes of a discussion like this.
        At any rate, those seem to be the two things everybody is confusing.

        I was “assimilated” when I was born in the US. Am I acculturated? Well, honestly, I couldn’t, without Googling, tell you who won the Series last fall. So I don’t know.

      • philadelphialawyer
        philadelphialawyer on February 6, 2015, 3:24 pm

        The Point
        ——————————-
        Hophmi

        What “amigo” was saying is that DWS WANTS a state of affairs in which everyone but Jews, particularly Muslims, have to assimilate, while Jews resist assimilation.

        Get it now?

        That’s what she WANTS. Ought versus is. Reading Comprehension 101.

        Nobody is saying that Jews have not and never will assimilate. What they are saying is that DWS hypocritically advocates for assimilation when it comes to the Others (again, particularly the most “Other” in this case, ie Muslims), but not for “her own.” She says, in effect, “let’s you assimilate!”

        Are you really this dense? Or is intentional conflation part of your argumentative strategy?

  5. American
    American on February 4, 2015, 12:08 pm

    ” “We have the problem of assimilation, we have the problem of intermarriage,” says Democratic chair Debbie Wasserman Schultz, lamenting that “too many” Jews are marrying outside the faith.”

    We have a problem of assimilation, we have the problem of intermarriage, says Congressman John Doe, lamenting that too many Gentiles are marrying Jews.

    Imagine.

    • Mooser
      Mooser on February 4, 2015, 11:13 pm

      It really bugs me the way they mis-use the word “assimilation” as if there was some price to be paid in Jewishness or the Jewish religion for American citizenship.
      I am pretty sure (please correct me if I am wrong) Jews from outside the US become citizens by the usual processes, or don’t, and those born here are American citizens, no matter what religion their parents espouse, or they may later espouse.

    • Stephen Shenfield
      Stephen Shenfield on February 5, 2015, 5:38 am

      It’s hard to imagine only because real anti-Semitism is nowadays so marginal in US politics (and the difficulty of imagining it is a good sign of that marginality). But there are people who fear the dissolution of WASP identity and intermarriage is on the list of things they worry about, though not very high on the list compared to Hispanic immigration, say. And some of them perceive intermarriage with Jews as having a specially corrupting effect.

      • Mooser
        Mooser on February 5, 2015, 6:06 pm

        I don’t think DWS is worried about our effect on them.
        She seems to be worried about what they might do to us. So the two sort of work together, don’t they, to throw a monkey wrench into the machinery of true love, which, as I’m sure you know, never do doth run straight, but goes aft gang agley often with a thud. I’m sure people laugh, but they all laughed at Christopher Columbus, when he said the world was round, and they all laughed when Edison recorded sound. Moreover, they all laughed at Wilbur and his brother, when they said that man could fly. They told Marconi; wireless was phony! It’s the same old cry, they laughed at Gentiles, wedding Jews, said they were reaching for the moon. But, oh, they came through (to the tune of about 58%), now they’ll have to change their tune!

  6. on February 4, 2015, 12:20 pm

    l feel that the Democratic party is totally controlled by people who think like Wasserman Shultz. They live to suport Israel in ways that I do not condone. They live off Jewish contributions. Last year many if not a majority of the emails I received from the Democratic party were from Jews who have opinions about Israel that I object to. I simply do not agree with their politics with regard to Israel and I find their support of the Gaza wars to be repugnant. Therefore last year I stopped contributing money to the Democratic party. I think that a lot of people now share my opinions. The Democrats are in denial. They send me surveys just like the ADL but similarly the answers to their questions are about which of their activities I like and support the most. I don’t like their activities period and they don’t give you a box to express that – just like the ADL. Most of these Democratic politicians blindly support the Apartheid racist oppressive criminal enterprise that is Israel in a fawning and false posture that I find to be irrational and unacceptable. The Democrats lost me. I am in Limbo now. We need a new party with rational views.

    • American
      American on February 4, 2015, 12:33 pm

      Reply unverified__5ilf90kd February 4, 2015, 12:20 pm –

      Ditto to every word of that.
      I also have not given a penny to the DNC because of their Israel lobby subservience in years.
      What I do and advise people to do is to make donations ‘direct’ to any candidates they approve of on this issue—do not put your money into the coffers of the party for them to use on their chosen ‘candidates’.
      Select your own candidates.

    • Rodneywatts
      Rodneywatts on February 5, 2015, 6:45 am

      @unverified…. & American

      I had already read that there were a growing number of disaffected voters in the US, and you both clearly fall in that group. Here in the UK, there is an advanced disaffection with the ‘political class’ and even long standing party activists cannot be counted on.

      unverfied… ‘ We need a new party with rational views’
      Absolutely right –at least in the UK we do have quite a range of parties. Your point here parallels a point made by a practicing Jew that s/he hoped that the success of JVP would lead to the formation of a new Jewish denomination.

      American … ‘ make donations ‘direct’ to any candidates they approve of on this issue’
      Yes! This is what is effectively happening here at this time, but not with the same emphasis on the Israel issue as we approach our general election in May.

      Fortunately we do not have quite the same control exercised by the neocon/Jewish-Israel lobby as you do and to the credit of Ed Millband , Labour leader and a Jew , he has stood up to the zionist lobby and condemned Israel.

      I wish you both well

  7. jd65
    jd65 on February 4, 2015, 12:36 pm

    Washerman says of the media coverage of the “war” in Gaza, “Clearly they were highlighting what Israel had done to Gaza and the plight of Palestinians. My first thought was where is the balance, where is the spotlight on what Jewish children in Israel go through from being victims of rocket attacks?”

    Another classic example of the infuriating “balance” card being played. It’s difficult/impossible for me to express how angry this sh*t makes me. A classic trick of language that knee-jerk Israel supporters rely on to portray Israel as a victim in the conflict. Pro-Israeli pundits, politicians, and journalists consistently criticize opposing viewpoints (or, as in this case, any news coverage which shows the naked brutality of Israeli aggression) on the conflict as “unbalanced.” What these ‘new moderates’ like to present as a balanced picture of the conflict is to place equal blame on the Israeli and Palestinian sides of the issue no matter what the circumstances. But in reality, both sides of the conflict rarely deserve equal blame in any specific instance, or certainly in the conflict generally. At best, the new moderates’ “balance” talking point is an incorrect use of the idea born out of a misplaced sense of altruism or egalitarianism. At worst, it’s an intentional deception. The picture of reality they’re painting with their “balanced” commentary is nearly always simply inaccurate. The 50/50 “balance” narrative they cram the media marketplace with simply doesn’t exist. It’s made up. It’s a fabricated myth that protects Israel from accepting the blame it’s due. It’s different from what many refer to as a “foundation myth.” It’s something new that allows the inertia of occupation and expansionism to continue its course: it’s a “perpetuation myth” (copywrighted term). And when presented by the media, it’s just more dime store philosophizing than anything resembling actual reporting. Here’s author Miko Peled again on this issue of balanced presentations on this issue:

    “I don’t think a balanced presentation is possible on this issue. If anybody thinks their opinion is balanced they’re either lying to themselves or lying to their audience… This is really not a balanced issue.” i

    If you’re consistently representing both sides of the conflict as equally to blame, and you’re calling that the balanced view, it’s simply a misuse of the word balance. Whether it’s an intentionally deceptive misuse or a misplaced positive impulse depends, of course, on the source. But the result is the same: perpetuating the conflict, perpetuating the status quo.

    i – Miko Peled Talk at Revolution Books, NYC, June 18, 2012.

  8. wondering jew
    wondering jew on February 4, 2015, 12:38 pm

    The rate of jewish intermarriage is 58%, if I prefer that that number would be 43%, does that make me a racist?

    i know that “one of my best friends” is ridiculed, but…
    one of my best friends was the son of an intermarriage (“was” because he’s now dead). he was a great guy and i really miss him. he told me that when he hung around nonJews and they would diss Jews, quite often he would just let it slide, not let anyone know he was half Jewish. This does not exhaust this discussion, and I realize that just this one little anecdote reveals very little, but if we are going to put our attitudes on the table to discuss (assuming that we are going to have a real discussion and not a dissing match) i have to start somewhere.

    if you want the Jews to disappear, as in those who say, “stop speaking those tiny languages and adopt the languages that dominate the planet, stop antisemitism by stopping to be jewish” are enemies.

    those who watch the disappearance of Jewish languages and Jewish culture and say, “easy come easy go”, really are bystanders.

    the dedication to a culture and preservation of that culture is one of the organizing principles of the human species until this point of time. america’s melting pot (which in fact is more mixed salad than melting pot) is something new and it can be the new organizing principle for many.

    the problem of nonassimilating muslim enclaves in europe who have individual members who shoot up journalists and kosher markets and jewish schools is quite real. the problem of jews who are intermarrying at the rate of 58% and some people want to reduce that rate to 56%, that is not a real problem. just because there is a concept of assimilation involved in both issues, doesn’t mean that they are the same. simplicity and simple mindedness are really not the same thing.

    • American
      American on February 4, 2015, 2:34 pm

      yonah

      One reason people dismiss your particular concerns for Jews is because of your own prejudice.
      If memory serves and I am sure it is accurate, back when you were ‘wandering jew’ you made the statement to me that all non jews were infected with the ‘disease ‘ of anti semitism…that it was genetically inherent in them.
      I had never heard that particular description/cause of anti semitism before so I goggled it and sure enough it was a favorite meme of rabid zionist….non jews as diseased, evil, a virus, inherent, etc.

      You have no credibility in talking about others bigotry but evidently are too dense to get your own hypocrisy.

      • annie
        annie on February 4, 2015, 2:55 pm

        all non jews were infected with the ‘disease ‘ of anti semitism

        american, this is glicks argument. in fact if you want a real dose of it try watching her video “Why the Jews? Caroline Glick explains the roots of genocidal Jew hatred”, i am not going to bother posting the video in the comments.

      • American
        American on February 4, 2015, 5:24 pm

        annie

        I don’t dare watch or listen to glick without a cross and some holy water to sprinkle on my laptop.
        I wouldn’t even dare be on the same city block with her without a dart gun loaded with a elephant tranquilzer.

      • Chu
        Chu on February 4, 2015, 5:25 pm

        I think that often what bigots feel inside their gut or their kishkes is often bigotry, so they envision everyone having these prejudices, because deep inside they are full of prejudice/bigotry. The anecdote about his dead friend being ‘dissed’ by goyim is really unnecessary if even true.

      • Frankie P
        Frankie P on February 4, 2015, 6:26 pm

        @American, Annie,

        The old “programmed to hate Jews” argument is easy to defuse. My tactic is to agree with it in a twisted kind of way, just to show how ridiculous it is. Therefore, I chime in, deadpan serious, with, “Haven’t you heard about the new surgical procedure developed in Taiwan? They are now able to disable the semiconductor responsible for anti-semitism in the brains of gentiles! I had the procedure done myself, so you need not worry about me. Come hide in my basement any time you feel threatened.”

        Ridicule is the ONLY response for such an outrageous belief.

        Frankie P

      • Mooser
        Mooser on February 4, 2015, 7:17 pm

        “assuming that we are going to have a real discussion and not a dissing match) i have to start somewhere.”

        But Yonah, you are known to have absolutely no regard for the truth or facts, and you start out with a bullshit, unverifiable, third hand anecdote,(and it doesn’t even have a point) and you expect us to take you seriously Why?. And after you have, over five years intimated anti-semitism in posters, and “bias” in writers?
        Why do we have to start by granting you omniscience and omnipotence, even while you kvetch about everything? You are a known prevaricator.

      • wondering jew
        wondering jew on February 4, 2015, 7:56 pm

        That’s a lie, “American”. I never wrote that or said it.

      • Philemon
        Philemon on February 4, 2015, 8:08 pm

        Chu: “I think that often what bigots feel inside their gut or their kishkes is often bigotry, so they envision everyone having these prejudices, because deep inside they are full of prejudice/bigotry.”

        It’s difficult to understand other people’s points of view when they differ from one’s own even for the most high-minded and noble. For those steeped in prejudice and bigotry, it it easier to imagine that everyone else is just like them, and are just pretending or deluding themselves that they aren’t bigots themselves.

      • eljay
        eljay on February 4, 2015, 8:25 pm

        >> American: yonah … If memory serves and I am sure it is accurate, back when you were ‘wandering jew’ you made the statement to me that all non jews were infected with the ‘disease ‘ of anti semitism…that it was genetically inherent in them.

        >> y.f.: That’s a lie, “American”. I never wrote that or said it.

        Correct. This is what you wrote:

        wondering jew March 1, 2012, 4:08 pm

        American- If I was not clear, I will clarify: “antisemitism is a dangerous and hardy disease amongst some nonJews.”

      • American
        American on February 4, 2015, 8:34 pm

        yonah fredman February 4, 2015, 7:56 pm

        That’s a lie, “American”. I never wrote that or said it. “>>>>

        I am not going to go thru 7000 comments to find it but if you look at the banning discussion thread 2 years ago you will see I mentioned it there as being you–although I did not suggest you be banned for it.

        However if you deny it was you I will accept your word for it and that I was wrong about your being the commenter that said it.

        But it still doesnt change my point about your hypocrisy in your anti semite accusations and attitude—you are most of the time the pot calling the kettle black.

        Edit:…I see ejay has found a comment, thanks ejay. although its not the exact one I was referring to yonah,you must admit yours is pretty close to the same opinion.

      • wondering jew
        wondering jew on February 4, 2015, 8:36 pm

        eljay- thank you, i said “some nonJews” and “American” remembered “all nonJews”. “American’s” memory has played with him and he owes me an apology.

      • Philemon
        Philemon on February 4, 2015, 9:03 pm

        Per Yonah: “… antisemitism is a dangerous and hardy disease amongst some nonJews.”

        But Yonah, how do you know which nonJews? I mean, it might strike the most philosemitic nonJew at any time!

        Yeah, “some” versus “all”, but what are the tell-tale signs? How do you tell who among nonJews is infected with this dangerous and hardy disease, and how can you tell if, even if previously they were free from all taint, it might not be lying dormant, just biding its time, as it were.

        I’d be careful if I were you, Yonah. You never know what might set it off.

        Will somebody please tell the folks at the asylum about Yonah.

      • wondering jew
        wondering jew on February 4, 2015, 9:15 pm

        Philemon- What ethnic group do you belong to? I’m betting you’re white.

      • Mooser
        Mooser on February 4, 2015, 9:50 pm

        Hey Yonah, aren’t Gentiles funny? They hate us, but they can’t stop marrying us. What do you put it down to? Why are so many Gentiles not just willing, but eager, to marry Jews? I’ve never understood. Can you explain it?

      • Philemon
        Philemon on February 4, 2015, 10:01 pm

        “What ethnic group do you belong to?”

        Well, wouldn’t you like to know! :D

      • wondering jew
        wondering jew on February 4, 2015, 10:06 pm

        mooser- Let’s say that 80% of american white gentiles are not antisemitic and 16% of them are antisemitic. that’s my approximation, but we can go to the polls and find out more exactly. but gentiles are not funny. jews are funny. like jackie mason and don rickles. ha, ha.

      • wondering jew
        wondering jew on February 4, 2015, 10:18 pm

        yes, american “some” and “all” are almost identical words. they both have one syllable.

      • Mooser
        Mooser on February 4, 2015, 10:45 pm

        “Philemon- What ethnic group do you belong to? I’m betting you’re white”

        That’s right, Yonah, you just lean on our Jewish solidarity with the darker, oppressed peoples of the earth! We spurn the alabaster titties gleaming across the fruit-cake plains! No, we too are the victims of the colonial overseer slave-master, the white man!

        Go down, Yonah, way down in Egypt land, tell old Pharoah, Let my People Go!

      • Mooser
        Mooser on February 4, 2015, 10:53 pm

        ” i said “some nonJews” and “American” remembered “all nonJews”. “American’s” memory has played with him and he owes me an apology”

        Oh, cut the pilpul Yonah. What you are owed is a bite on the ankle from Fritz, my Dachshund.

      • Mooser
        Mooser on February 4, 2015, 11:29 pm

        “but gentiles are not funny. jews are funny. like jackie mason and don rickles. ha, ha.”

        Both staunch Zionists, Yonah. Both staunch Zionists. I just looked it up on Google. So maybe you should learn to like them.
        Too bad about Gentiles not being funny, huh?
        Well, Yonah, not everybody can have your exquisitely tuned sense of humor and sparkling wit.

        But of course, when it comes to marriage, you speak with much authority, Yonah. You should give it a try one day. It’s nice work, if you can get it.

      • wondering jew
        wondering jew on February 5, 2015, 9:04 pm

        The ethnicity of those accusing me of racism is relevant primarily for this reason: The white globalism of Britain, France, Spain and America captured much of the world and imposed their culture and obliterated many cultures and even today undermines many cultures. And I belong to a culture that is seeking to survive despite the voracious appetite that the predominant cultures have for consuming and obliterating cultures. I would say, that those who call me “racist” are merely attempting to obliterate my culture by discouraging its survival. They are part of a global movement whereby many tiny cultures are obliterated and my desire to see my culture survive is against their goal of world dominance and their “racist” epithet is a means to the end of their destruction of my culture.

        In fact, globalism will triumph and is triumphing, and Jewishness is a culture that will continue to be obliterated by the waves of time and by the pull of the market place of billions compared to the small pond of millions and certainly the nature of religion in the west, which is on a losing streak, has a lot to do with this, and certainly the nature of Judaism, which in the time of Jesus was noted for seeking out proselytes and after that given environmental factors (euphemism) cut their outreach activities to naught and changed their orientation away from the globe and towards isolation, that nature of Judaism has something to do with this too.

        But the Jewish people will survive if only as a small group and the Jewish religion is not a tool that can be ultimately destroyed by the west if the west keeps its credo of freedom, but the size of the Jewish group is in question and the desire for the size of that group to be .02% of the world population rather than .01% of the world’s population does not strike me as racist, but merely an attempt to keep a culture alive.

        (Those percentages are bogus. actual jewish population is closer to .2% than to .02%, but i think my point is still valid.)

      • seanmcbride
        seanmcbride on February 5, 2015, 9:21 pm

        yonah fredman,

        Are you defining “whites” and “the West” (Europeans and Americans) as the enemies of “the Jews”? — as perhaps the foremost and most dangerous enemies of “the Jews”?

        Over the years I’ve noticed a high volume of high-intensity anti-European and anti-American comments by Jewish Zionists in pro-Israel publications — an interesting pattern. Clearly they believe that “the Clash of Civilizations” between Europeans (“whites”) and Jews is of much greater consequence than “the Clash of Civilizations” between “the West” and Islam (boilerplate neocon propaganda).

      • oldgeezer
        oldgeezer on February 5, 2015, 11:59 pm

        @yonah
        “The ethnicity of those accusing me of racism is relevant primarily for this reason: The white globalism of Britain, France, Spain and America captured much of the world and imposed their culture and obliterated many cultures and even today undermines many cultures…………………….. [snip]
        I would say, that those who call me “racist” are merely attempting to obliterate my culture by discouraging its survival.”

        yonah help can be obtained, All you need to do is want it. Your paranoid delusions are a treatable conditions. I have conquered no one. I do not fear multiculturalism. I embrace it and enjoy it. Muslim? No problem. Jewish? No problem. Chinese, Asian, African, Caribbean? All great. So much variety and so interesting.

        On any objective basis you are a rank racist. Your comments would be at home on any white supremacist board by merely substituting the target group.

      • seafoid
        seafoid on February 6, 2015, 12:21 am

        Yonah

        “In fact, globalism will triumph and is triumphing”

        Make your mind up.

        Jews have done very well out of globalism. And you want your culture to survive. Which is fine. But don’t blame globalism. Change the rules on who is a Jew.

        And don’t have it depending on how many Gazans are murdered. That is not good for long term coherence.

      • Mooser
        Mooser on February 6, 2015, 10:56 am

        Notice this: Yonah whines incessantly about “preserving Jewish culture”, but he never says what “Jewish culture” is!

        He’ll never say what this “Jewish culture” consists of, except of course, Zionism.

        So come on Yonah, tell us about this “Jewish culture” which is common to all Jews and defines them as a people?

        “Jewish culture” seems to me, from what I read of Yonah (and the herd of ilk) a lot like the old definition of porngraphy: “I can’t define it, but damn it, I know it when I see it!”

        And of course, anybody who says that self-interest will in any wise effect Yonah’s judgement will have to fight me (soda-straws and spitballs at ten paces)!

        Hey, but you’ve got to hand it to Yonah! Not one other of his herd of ilk has the temerity to start with the solidarity-with-the-dark-oppressed-peoples-of-the-earth, schtick That, my friends, is first-rate, top-hole, a-1 chutzpah!

        Damn it, Yonah’s got a right to sing the blues!

      • eljay
        eljay on February 6, 2015, 11:17 am

        >> y.f. @ February 5, 2015, 9:04 pm

        I don’t object to the fact that people wanting to keep their cultures and faiths alive. I do object to the fact that Zio-supremacists like you wanted and still want to do it at the expense and on the lands and with the lives of Palestinians.

        [ Mods, PLEASE put “Reply” buttons next to each comment. Having to scroll dozens of posts above the one I want to reply to to find a button is really frustrating. Thanks! :-) ]

      • RoHa
        RoHa on February 6, 2015, 11:03 pm

        “I don’t object to the fact that people wanting to keep their cultures and faiths alive.”

        I object to the fact that some people do it at the expense of their children. We get 21st Century British, French, American children, living in the land of their birth and citizenship, being brought up in cultures from 19th Century Subcontinent or North Africa, or 17th Century Poland. Denying children the opportunity and background to be fully part of mainstream society is both cruel and unjust.

        Here’s one of the bizarre results of that sort of thing.

        http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-02-06/rabbi-did-not-have-a-clue-an-adult-touching-a-child-was-illegal/6076796

        [ Mods, PLEASE put “Reply” buttons next to each comment. Having to scroll dozens of posts above the one I want to reply to to find a button is really frustrating. Thanks! :-) ]

        Please, please, PLEASE!

      • annie
        annie on February 7, 2015, 12:21 pm

        write adam, mods don’t deal w/formatting issues.

      • eljay
        eljay on February 7, 2015, 12:47 pm

        >> Annie Robbins: write adam, mods don’t deal w/formatting issues.

        Will do, Annie. Thanks! :-)

      • Mooser
        Mooser on February 7, 2015, 7:22 pm

        “write adam, mods don’t deal w/formatting issues.”

        It’s because the Moderators get to read all the comments which come in, and make decisions about those which are questionable and how to deal with them.
        So they shouldn’t get to do all the fun stuff around Mondo. Only fair

    • amigo
      amigo on February 4, 2015, 2:38 pm

      “the dedication to a culture and preservation of that culture is one of the organizing principles of the human species until this point of time”YF

      Fair enough , but when that culture includes a major section that approves the eradication of another culture, (think the destruction of 450 Arab Villages) then your culture crossed the line .

      • oldgeezer
        oldgeezer on February 4, 2015, 4:03 pm

        Having only taken a couple of courses in anthroplogy I can’t claim any expertise but culture as one of the organizing principles seems counterintuitive. Culture would have arisen from humans organizing and not be one of the motivations. The drivers for that organization were likely the same as always, preservation/defense , power, wealth and the greed to acquire same.

        I’m sure most white supremacists would agree with yonah’s viewpoint on things though. Fellow travellers and all that.

      • Mooser
        Mooser on February 6, 2015, 11:09 am

        “Fair enough , but when that culture includes a major section that approves the eradication of another culture, (think the destruction of 450 Arab Villages) then your culture crossed the line .”

        Amigo, you are taking a very naive view of history. History is not really a moral struggle! It’s an unfortunate fact, but the fact is, when your population is a significant fraction of the entire worlds, and cannot be depleted, and millions can be easily sacrificed in war or natural disaster, and political and national discipline is absolute, when the territory you control is a significant part of the earths surface and contains every natural resource and outlets to several oceans, it doesn’t matter if you make mistakes, or even go on horribly misguided rampages which only end in national cataclysm, you are simply too big to fail!
        So you can see why Zionists reason the way they do!

    • pjdude
      pjdude on February 4, 2015, 6:06 pm

      yes because the number shouldn’t matter at all.the only that matters if your a decent person in my opinion is whether or not people are marry the ones they love.

    • mariapalestina
      mariapalestina on February 4, 2015, 7:32 pm

      Gee Yonah, I can’t help wondering where “one of your best friends” was living when he was hanging around with nonJews and hearing them diss Jews.

      During my 81 years I have lived in England, Canada and the U.S. and have hung around with a lot of nonJews. I don’t recall ever hearing any of these nonJews diss Jews. And if it had happened I would recall it, because unlike “one of your best friends” I wouldn’t have let it slide.

      • wondering jew
        wondering jew on February 4, 2015, 8:40 pm

        mariapalestina- he lived in nyc. are you saying that he was lying or that i am lying? are you saying that everyone has the same experiences that you have had in your life. i was not trying to prove that jew hatred exists, i think it’s ridiculous for you to claim that it doesn’t exist. history proves that and i don’t need anecdotes to prove that. I was not trying to prove that jew hatred is pervasive. different times different places different people different cultures different degrees of the existence of jew hatred, in pre war poland jew hatred was pervasive for example. I would assume in wyoming people don’t spend much time talking about jews unless they’re truly obsessed and messed up. in nyc there are lots of jews and so the ethnicity of prevalent neighbors might just come up in a conversation. but that was not my point.

        i was merely citing one aspect of my friend’s confusion/ambivalence towards his own half jewishness and that is one of the first things that i remember about him on the jewish topic.

      • Mooser
        Mooser on February 4, 2015, 9:58 pm

        ” are you saying that he was lying or that i am lying?”

        Impugn your credibility? Why, Yonah, why would anybody do such a thing? You’ve never been known to vary so much as a millimeter from the revealed truth.

      • Mooser
        Mooser on February 4, 2015, 10:00 pm

        “i was merely citing one aspect of my friend’s confusion/ambivalence towards his own half jewishness and that is one of the first things that i remember about him on the jewish topic.”

        Gosh, Yonah, you really know how to appreciate a friend.

      • Mooser
        Mooser on February 5, 2015, 3:53 pm

        “mariapalestina- he lived in nyc.”

        New York City?? Get a rope!

    • Mooser
      Mooser on February 4, 2015, 7:34 pm

      “just because there is a concept of assimilation involved in both issues,”

      Yes, sure, assimilation! See, if a Jew marries a Gentile girl, he get’s the real first-class American citizenship status, denied to Jews who marry within the faith.

      No Yonah, in the US, intermarriage has nothing at all to do with “assimilation”.

    • Mooser
      Mooser on February 4, 2015, 7:37 pm

      “one of my best friends was the son of an intermarriage (“was” because he’s now dead).”

      And people make light of the consequences of mixed marriages!

    • on February 4, 2015, 7:55 pm

      The rate of jewish intermarriage is 58%, if I prefer that that number would be 43%, does that make me a racist? –

      Yes.

      • Mooser
        Mooser on February 4, 2015, 10:08 pm

        I don’t know “Giles”, for some reason I can’t quite explain, I find the thought of the 58% out-marriage rate just a little, teensy-weeny bit hard to square with all Yonah’s blathering about Jew-hate, or anti-semitism, or whatever term he’s using today.
        I must be very naive, or something.

        Oh God, Gentile women haven’t started kidnapping us, have they?

      • RoHa
        RoHa on February 4, 2015, 11:09 pm

        “Oh God, Gentile women haven’t started kidnapping us, have they?”

        Could be. In the diaspora, you are never safe from persecution by Gentiles.

    • Philemon
      Philemon on February 4, 2015, 8:27 pm

      Yonah: “The rate of jewish intermarriage is 58%, if I prefer that that number would be 43%, does that make me a racist?”

      Yes.

      You seem to think that disallowing 15% of marriages between people who obviously love one another or they wouldn’t want to get married is something to cheer about, not because they are interdenominational marriages, but because in your mind Jews are a race of sorts.

      Otherwise, your stance makes no sense whatsoever. Religions are fungible; people convert or lapse, and it’s nobody’s business but their own.

      • wondering jew
        wondering jew on February 4, 2015, 8:51 pm

        I do not advocate or plan to go to city hall and break up all marriages of jews with nonjews. and i am not going to put an ad in the paper saying, “Yehudi, keep the flame alive, kick your nonJewish girlfriend out into the street.”

        but, I approve of the movement to emphasize jewish education certainly and i approve of the movement to maximize the potentiality of jews marrying jews. – jewish day schools and jewish summer camps and yes, trips to israel, that are all designed to get jews to hang out with jews and thus increase the odds of two jews marrying. two jews marrying are likely to raise their kids as jews. a jew marrying with a christian, not much chance of raising their kids as jews.

      • Philemon
        Philemon on February 4, 2015, 9:13 pm

        Yonah: “…a jew marrying with a christian, not much chance of raising their kids as jews.”

        Why not?

      • wondering jew
        wondering jew on February 4, 2015, 10:02 pm

        philemon- There is a chance of them raising their kids Jewish: about 14% or so. 27% raised Christian and the majority raised with no religion. (these are from memory. i will look up the stats another time. i don’t think i am way off.)

      • Mooser
        Mooser on February 4, 2015, 10:03 pm

        ” jewish day schools and jewish summer camps and yes, trips to israel, that are all designed to get jews to hang out with jews and thus increase the odds of two jews marrying. two jews marrying are likely to raise their kids as jews”

        Shorter Yonah:

        ‘Put the Jewish kids together, look the other way, and let nature take it’s course. Once the girls are knocked up, well, they will have to marry the boy.’

        Good plan, Yonah.

      • hophmi
        hophmi on February 5, 2015, 2:45 pm

        “You seem to think that disallowing 15% of marriages between people who obviously love one another or they wouldn’t want to get married is something to cheer about, not because they are interdenominational marriages, but because in your mind Jews are a race of sorts.”

        Who said that Jews were a race? Not DWS. Not Yonah. Only you. All of you seem to reading a racial argument into what DWS said. Do you read racial arguments into Muslim support of endogamy? Christian support of endogamy?

        “Otherwise, your stance makes no sense whatsoever. Religions are fungible; people convert or lapse, and it’s nobody’s business but their own.”

        Indeed, it isn’t. No one advocates passing a law through Congress banning intermarriage.

        “Yonah: “…a jew marrying with a christian, not much chance of raising their kids as jews.”

        Why not?”

        Because the society is 75% Christian, that’s why not. We don’t broadcast pictures of lighted menorahs in December. We broadcast pictures of yuletide logs. The radio doesn’t spend the month of August playing Rosh Hashanah music in anticipation of the high holy days. It spends two months playing Christmas songs in anticipation of Christmas. There’s nothing whatsoever wrong with any of this. But Jews are a tiny minority. The reality is that Christian cultural influences will generally overwhelm Jewish ones, and for that reason, the children of most intermarried couple are either raised without a religion or as Christians. That’s not a big problem if you belong to a faith that has a billion+ followers. It’s more of a problem when you belong to one that has a few million, and when you lost 40% of your followers in living memory.

        Again, no one has any problem with DWS or anyone like her unless what they really want is less Jews in the world.

      • Mooser
        Mooser on February 5, 2015, 6:48 pm

        “Again, no one has any problem with DWS or anyone like her unless what they really want is less Jews in the world.”

        Hey, Hophmi, are you seated? Good. Now, this may be news to you, but in 100% of the cases of the 58% of Jews who marry Gentiles, there’s a Jew, saying “I do” standing next to the Gentile saying the same…. Oh gosh, this is embarrassing, I always get a little choked up at weddings,…Urrh, where was I?

        Oh yes, Hophmi, go talk to them, the 58%. They don’t seem to see it as a problem, or are you going to give us the old “exteriminating ourselves” crap? Geez, Hophmi, I just don’t know what we would do without guys like you and Yonah to keep us from committing ethnic suicide.

      • Mooser
        Mooser on February 6, 2015, 11:32 am

        “The rate of jewish intermarriage is 58%, if I prefer that that number would be 43%, does that make me a racist?”

        Oh, please, Yonah, the thought never even occurred to me. I’m too busy wondering why you are so hung up on other people’s sex lives and other people’s marital choices? That’s weird enough for me, bro!

        So tell me, Yonah, my balmocha, have you calculated the maximum (I mean there’s going to be some, people get lascivious, you know) inter-marriage rate we can survive with?

      • Mooser
        Mooser on February 6, 2015, 11:36 am

        “We don’t broadcast pictures of lighted menorahs in December.”

        All the Jewish power, money, smarts, and general “vim and vigor” and we can’t start a lousy TV station? How about an Internet TV channel? What’s stopping you? And who the hell is “we”? Are you asking me for a donation to Jewish Public Broadcasting? Hell, Hophmi, I’ll subscribe.

        And I’ve seen Menorahs plenty of times, and the ceremony on TV. Say, ever see a Christmas movie, with Danny Kaye, called “Holiday Inn” (mostly known as “White Christmas”)?

      • Mooser
        Mooser on February 6, 2015, 4:22 pm

        Yonah and Hophmi talk about Jewish adolescents and young adults as if they are breeding stock in some Kosher Eugenics experiment. It is really disgusting.

      • Philemon
        Philemon on February 6, 2015, 8:31 pm

        Hophmi: “Who said that Jews were a race? Not DWS. Not Yonah. Only you.”

        I said no such thing. I don’t think Jews are a race. I don’t even think “Jews” as a term is well-defined, and “race” is even worse. Of course, that doesn’t preclude other people, maybe Yonah, from having their own weird ideas.

        “Because the society is 75% Christian, that’s why not. We don’t broadcast pictures of lighted menorahs in December. We broadcast pictures of yuletide logs.”

        Aside from the fact that yuletide logs aren’t really Christian and I’m wondering where you’ve seen them broadcasted as opposed to menorahs, you seem to be laboring under the delusion that there is some monolithic Christianity competing with some monolithic Judaism; I just don’t see it.

      • Philemon
        Philemon on February 6, 2015, 8:53 pm

        The yule-tide log is a renewal of light ritual. It involves preserving a log from the prior solstice and rekindling the log in the current solstice. That such a ritual is being observed by any American national broadcasting company would be remarkable.

        I bet they just show a picture of a hearth with a fire in the fireplace and trust to luck.

      • Philemon
        Philemon on February 6, 2015, 9:22 pm

        Mooser, did you realize that any fireplace with a fire going is obviously Christian?!

      • Mooser
        Mooser on February 7, 2015, 2:31 pm

        “Mooser, did you realize that any fireplace with a fire going is obviously Christian?!

        Gee, we can track anti-Semitism by wood-stove sales!

      • Mooser
        Mooser on February 7, 2015, 7:27 pm

        ” It’s more of a problem when you belong to one that has a few million, and when you lost 40% of your followers in living memory.”

        Oh, I see, that is why you are always questioning other people’s Jewishness, or Jewish authenticity. Makes perfect sense. And so does the negative attitude towards intermarriage. I guess we are not down where we should be, and 40% wasn’t enough?

    • oldgeezer
      oldgeezer on February 5, 2015, 12:10 am

      I’ve got your back buddy. As soon as you apologize for being obsessed about posters ethnicity and apologize for being a rank racist versus gentiles I’ll post along with you.

      Hang in there!!! It’s a tough road when racists are such a minority on the planet.

    • Marnie
      Marnie on February 5, 2015, 12:52 am

      Doesn’t it seem a little much to ask Muslims to “assimilate” so you can be comfortable? Maybe you’d be happy to oblige the millions of women who are raped every day and get castrated? That might not make you comfortable, but it might help women who feel that a penis is a dangerous to her.

      Intermarriage is just a terrorist antizionist plot Yonah.

      • Mooser
        Mooser on February 5, 2015, 3:56 pm

        “Intermarriage is just a terrorist antizionist plot Yonah.”

        Marnie, you are aware that Yonah has never married, and is still as pure as the driven slush (Dorothy Parker?) . So from marriage he knows!

      • RoHa
        RoHa on February 5, 2015, 8:49 pm

        “Yonah has never married”

        He’d better watch out that he isn’t kidnapped and forced into marriage by one of those predatory Gentile women.

      • Mooser
        Mooser on February 6, 2015, 11:17 am

        “He’d better watch out that he isn’t kidnapped and forced into marriage by one of those predatory Gentile women.”

        Oh, how awful! I can see him now, fluttering like a wounded bird in her boudoir, transfixed by a pair of belladonna-brightened, kohl-rimmed eyes, frantically reciting the brochas against lasciviousness, until finally, a merciful syncope relieves him of the consciousness of his own degradation. Just the thought of it wrings my whithers, it really does, and it should wring yours, too!

        Yonah, of course, falls into a deep swoon, and his new Gentile wife sits faithfully by his bedside, stroking his hand, and waiting for him to wake up. “His hand”, she thinks, “It’s so large for a Jewish man, could it be…?” (1 : 22 : 55)

      • Mooser
        Mooser on February 6, 2015, 11:49 am

        Oh, BTW, just so we know what we are talking about, would everybody agree that it is highly improbable the US government, or any of the 50 states, will pass a law discouraging Jewish inter-marriage. So why don’t we be realistic about what devices can be employed to discourage inter-marriage? As far as I know these are the only realistic, legal devices available to discourage intermarriage:

        1) Counsel them not to. (‘My friend was from an intermarriage, and he died‘.) That might work.
        2) If you do this, I am not paying for the wedding! Not coming, nobody will come.
        3) If you do this thing, I will sit Shiva down and give that eight-armed Jezebel what for! (Okay theology is weak, but you get the idea)
        4) Not another penny for you and that Gentile, expect no help from us, say parents.
        5) You are out of the will!

        As far as I know, that’s about it. Gosh, those seem like pretty powerful weapons to me. Can’t figure out why the rate isn’t lower. Are there others I don’t know about?

        Whoops, forgot one! Offer the Gentile money to back out of the relationship. Actually, I knew a girl who made a pretty good thing out of that for a while, by splitting the take with the guys.

      • Mooser
        Mooser on February 6, 2015, 12:12 pm

        “as pure as the driven slush (Dorothy Parker?)”

        No you dumb ungulate, it was Tallulah Bankhead !

      • RoHa
        RoHa on February 6, 2015, 8:50 pm

        Duly wrung.

      • Mooser
        Mooser on February 7, 2015, 2:12 pm

        “Duly wrung.”

        Good! And I hope we go on wringing out the old changes, far into the coming years.

        Btw, did you get a load of good old Rudy? Man they don’t make ’em like that anymore!

    • philadelphialawyer
      philadelphialawyer on February 6, 2015, 3:35 pm

      “the problem of jews who are intermarrying at the rate of 58% and some people want to reduce that rate to 56%, that is not a real problem”

      Says who? Trying to socially engineer people’s marriages is a real problem. It is also incredibly presumptuous, as well as bigoted, ethnocentric, and, quite frankly, disgusting. People, as individuals, should marry who they like (assuming the liking is mutual), not based on what is best for some cultural group’s survival as a distinct cultural group. Even seeing this as “a problem” smacks of paternalism, at best, and of a dictatorial ethnocultural suprematist racism, at worst.

      As others have intimated, imagine if the term “Whites” was substituted for the term “Jews” in your little epigram? Would you not see “the problem” then? The ethnic purity you are calling for is quite disturbing.

    • straightline
      straightline on February 7, 2015, 2:00 pm

      @Yonah: I’m intrigued. What does half-Jewish mean?

      According to Wikipedia: “A Jew is someone who was born to a Jewish mother, or who converts to Judaism in accordance with Jewish law and tradition.”

      Now I’m not a great fan of Wikipedia for issues like this and am being lazy in not finding a more authoritative source, but I can’t get my head around “half-Jewish” according to this definition.

      • annie
        annie on February 7, 2015, 3:42 pm

        it’s when you only have a jewish dad. no jewish mom means 1/2.

      • wondering jew
        wondering jew on February 7, 2015, 4:58 pm

        Kids from a mixed marriage where the mother is Jewish I would refer to as halachic Jews, as in Jews according to Jewish law. i might say technically Jewish especially if that person does not identify as Jewish. Jews from a mixed marriage born from a Jewish father I call half Jews. (half Jewish- the wrong half.) Sorry if too honest.

      • wondering jew
        wondering jew on February 7, 2015, 5:06 pm

        I accept the overwhelming (in this comments section) opposition to Zionism as the means for keeping the Jewish people alive because it treads on the Palestinians. But the opposition to preferring endogamy as a means to keep the Jewish people alive leaves me with the impression that you’s all just want the Jews to disappear from history.

        If a group of Jewish billionaires gave free Jewish education from grades K through 12 for hundreds of thousands of Jewish children who took advantage of the billionaire’s largesse, that would cut the intermarriage rate for the participants by let’s say 10-30%. I would be in favor. But all you’s here, you just wish the Jews would disappear. Jews, your whole shtick needs to be flushed down the toilet, you are saying. Forget your language, forget your customs, stop all that religious and ethnic stuff and disappear already. that’s what I’m hearing.

      • seanmcbride
        seanmcbride on February 7, 2015, 5:34 pm

        yonah fredman,

        “But all you’s here, you just wish the Jews would disappear. Jews, your whole shtick needs to be flushed down the toilet, you are saying. Forget your language, forget your customs, stop all that religious and ethnic stuff and disappear already. that’s what I’m hearing.”

        That is not what I am hearing. What I am hearing is that quite a few people have noticed that the Jewish community overall seems to be much more intensely involved in ethnocentric politics (including lobbying for Israel and Zionism — Jewish ethnic nationalism) than all the other mainstream ethnic groups in American culture — and often in ways that are confrontational and divisive. Why is this the case? Why are there so many angry and often ugly confrontations between Jews and non-Jews (and between different factions of Jews) over Jewish identity issues?

        Most Americans don’t approach the world with such a singleminded (one might obsessive) focus on a narrow ethnocentric agenda. Too much ethnocentrism in the public square almost appears to be un-American — out of sync with modern Western democratic values.

        How do you explain the fact that highly visible Jewish pundits in American politics — like Jeffrey Goldberg, Charles Krauthammer and Jennifer Rubin — are brimming over with so much sturm and drang about their ethnic and ethnic nationalist issues? Do they ever notice that they are out of step with most other Americans?

        Increasingly I am inclined to explain this behavior more in psychological than cultural terms — they can’t help themselves — that is how they are mentally wired. I think they are largely unconscious of what they are doing — underwater.

      • just
        just on February 7, 2015, 6:00 pm

        omg.

        yonah~ when did you become both judge and jury?

      • philadelphialawyer
        philadelphialawyer on February 7, 2015, 6:09 pm

        “If a group of Jewish billionaires gave free Jewish education from grades K through 12 for hundreds of thousands of Jewish children who took advantage of the billionaire’s largesse, that would cut the intermarriage rate for the participants by let’s say 10-30%. I would be in favor. But all you’s here, you just wish the Jews would disappear. Jews, your whole shtick needs to be flushed down the toilet, you are saying. Forget your language, forget your customs, stop all that religious and ethnic stuff and disappear already. that’s what I’m hearing.”

        Please. Personally, leaving aside general questions of world overpopulation, strain on the Earth’s resources and such (which have nothing to do with the issue under discussion), I have no desire to control how many Jews there are nor what proportion of the overall population of the Earth is Jewish. That’s your bugaboo, not mine.

        I do not want the disappearance of Jewish, or any other, for that matter, set of customs, or religious practices, or other linguistic or “ethnic stuff.” As an aside, I would add that I, personally, as a non Jew, far from wanting “fewer Jews,” or none at all, would not at all be happy with or celebrate the “disappearance” of Judaism. On the other hand, no one has the right to try to put Jews, or anyone else, in some sort of box, some sort of static, ethnic museum, and promote the persistence of a timeless, unchanging, “pure” tribe either, merely because one “appreciates” that culture or because one is a member of it. In the end, the number of Jews in the world should reflect the choices of Jews to marry and procreate and raise their children as they see fit, and, of course, the choices that those children make in the future, and the choices THEIR children make, ad infinitum. With the addition of whatever number of folks choose to convert to Judaism.

        I would not particularly care if some Jewish billionaire funded the program you mention (and again, the answer would be no different, to me, if the funding was for Latinos, African Americans, Italian Americans, Native Americans, Chinese Americans, etc). And I don’t hear anyone here saying anything different. Nor is anyone, as far as I can tell, against Jewish cultural teaching, religious training and education, the study of Hebrew, Yiddish, Ladino, and so on. Same as no one here, as far as I can tell, is against Roman Catholic K-12 education, RC colleges and universities, catechism classes, CYO programs and so forth.

        On the other hand, pining for such a program for Jews, not for its own sake, but for the express purpose of preventing or pre empting intermarriage, still smacks of Apartheid-like ethno suprematism. The study of all things Jewish, not simply as an appreciation of them because they are meritorious, or even as part of an attempt to promote understanding and appreciation of one’s inheritance, but as a prophylactic device specifically designed to prevent young people from having contact with the Other and, perhaps, marrying them, strikes me as a program of racial or ethnocultural supremacy.

        And it is ironic, given your overblown rhetoric of accusation, that you are the one advocating precisely that.

      • straightline
        straightline on February 7, 2015, 6:26 pm

        @Annie – I know that – I wanted to see Yonah’s answer.

        @Yonah – just keep on being honest.

        Regarding your view of the opinions of the commenters here, I personally don’t have any opposition to Jewish (or Mormon or any other small religious group’s) endogamy if that’s what the individuals concerned want.

        Interesting parallel with LDS regarding endogamy

        http://forward.com/articles/174727/taking-a-jewish-page-from-the-book-of-mormon-on-in/?p=all

        – with a very significant difference – the Mormons convert in large numbers.
        If you want to ensure the survival of Judaism follow the LDS example – start proselytizing! Mormons do best in 3rd world countries.

      • Mooser
        Mooser on February 7, 2015, 7:31 pm

        “But the opposition to preferring endogamy as a means to keep the Jewish people alive”

        Means we don’t want to see the Jewish people suffering with hemophilia and birth defects, you fool!! You go marry your sister, then.

      • Mooser
        Mooser on February 7, 2015, 7:43 pm

        ” Forget your language, forget your customs, stop all that religious and ethnic stuff and disappear already. that’s what I’m hearing.”

        Yonah, that’s why you are here, to do just that. Why don’t you just admit it and stop being so obstinate about it. What else do you expect to find here, lessons in Torah and Hebrew and Jewish customs?

        Don’t worry, Yonah, we’ll make a real moser out of you! If that isn’t what you want, why are you here? Or do you have some plan for changing the content of Mondoand, most of all, changing people’s reaction to you?

        One thing for sure, Yonah (and I’m trying to be gentle) a nice Jewish Lubavitcher or Orthodox girl you would be unlikely (“unlikely” that’s as far as I’ll go! You never know!) to meet here.

        You know, Yonah, how weak your mind is, and how easily influenced you are. And, obviously, desperately pitifully desperate for acceptance. Your ‘hang’ will become your ‘thang’ as the saying goes.

        Okay then Yonah, my conscience is clear. My ethics obligate me to do no more than that for an erring fellow-creature, and you can go to Hillel in your own hand-basket.

      • RoHa
        RoHa on February 7, 2015, 9:17 pm

        And which half? Top? Bottom? Left? Right?

      • Mooser
        Mooser on February 8, 2015, 3:31 pm

        “And which half? Top? Bottom? Left? Right?”

        Marx ( c’mon, which one do you think it would be?) once claimed his daughter was half-Jewish, and should be allowed in the pool up to her knees. For better or worse, that makes it the top, I guess.

  9. Pippilin
    Pippilin on February 4, 2015, 12:51 pm

    I would like to see a disclosure of which members of Congress hold dual citizenships– in this case I’m talking about Israel/US citizenships, but I would like to see all such elected officials and their other citizenships subjected to sunshine. We have a right to know. No man can serve two (or more) masters.

    • RoHa
      RoHa on February 4, 2015, 5:45 pm

      Your members of Congress are allowed to have dual citizenship?

      • Pippilin
        Pippilin on February 4, 2015, 7:31 pm

        They do not have to disclose it.

      • RoHa
        RoHa on February 4, 2015, 11:20 pm

        Interesting.

        Britain is pretty free on that score. An MP has to be a British citizen or citizen of a Commonwealth country or the Republic of Ireland. As far as I can tell, any number of additional citizenships is permissible.

        Australia is very strict. Australian nationality only for Federal MPs. (States have different rules.)

      • CloakAndDagger
        CloakAndDagger on February 5, 2015, 1:34 am

        @ RoHa

        Unfortunately, yes they are allowed to be dual citizens – something I dearly want changed.

      • Bumblebye
        Bumblebye on February 5, 2015, 7:12 am

        RoHa –
        A few foreign born British MP’s:
        Nadhim Zahawi – Iraq
        Gisela Stuart – Bavaria
        Brooks Newmark – US
        Peter Hain – born Kenya, raised South Africa
        And the Mayor of London, Boris Johnson – born New York and still considered a US citizen by the IRS with whom he recently settled a tax bill on the sale of one of his (British) properties.

      • RoHa
        RoHa on February 5, 2015, 7:59 pm

        Don’t forget Brian Gould. He was a New Zealander. I don’t know whether he had dual NZ/British citizenship or not, but as a Commonwealth citizen he was eligible without British citizenship.

        Several of our Australian MPs and Senators are foreign born (including PMs Gillard and Abbott) but they were required to renounce their other citizenships before they ran for office.

        There is some question about whether Abbott ever did renounce his British citizenship!

      • Mooser
        Mooser on February 7, 2015, 7:48 pm

        BTW, I needn’t mention that the denominations of Judaism that Yonah and Hophmi thinks are the only authentic manifestations of Judaism, so authentic they are worthy of a eugenics-like control over the mating of the kids, are the smallest in Judaism.

        Most Jews seem to be able to do without them, and I don’t think penning the kids up and breeding them like cattle will improve matters.

    • hophmi
      hophmi on February 5, 2015, 3:19 pm

      I’d bet the answer is zero or close to it, and I’d bet most of the websites that claim that there are Jews who hold Israeli citizenship are lying about it. The last one of these claims I saw involved Michael Mukasey, and it was 100% false.

      This is another example of how this site trades in neo-Nazi memes. Phil Weiss made a very big deal out of it when Stanley Fischer was nominated to be vice-chair of the Fed. Wrote a long post on how it was a “sop to the Israel lobby,” ignoring, of course, Fischer’s entire resume as one of the world’s most distinguished economists and as a professor of economics at MIT. It’s a neo-Nazi meme to suggest that every Jew who attains a high position should be scrutinized in this way.

      • Keith
        Keith on February 5, 2015, 6:49 pm

        HOPHMI- “Fischer’s entire resume as one of the world’s most distinguished economists….”

        And who better to make that assessment than you? No favoritism here folks, just your standard meritocracy. Why any unbiased look at all of the Zionist Jews in positions of power and finance can only conclude that Zionist Askenazi are the most meritricious group in all of history. What other explanation could there be? Jeez, they even had to entice this wunderkind back from Israel and their central bank.

        Hophmi- “This is another example of how this site trades in neo-Nazi memes.”

        Neo-Nazi? Have Victoria Nuland and Bernard-Henri Levy come out in support of Phil? Why wasn’t I informed?

      • Mooser
        Mooser on February 5, 2015, 6:54 pm

        “Jews who hold Israeli citizenship”

        Hophmi, remember, there is no such thing as an “Israeli citizenship”. There are only “Jews” “Arabs” and “others”.

        Hey Hophmi, does a Jew living in occupied territory have “Israeli citizenship”?

      • annie
        annie on February 5, 2015, 8:10 pm

        I’d bet most of the websites that claim that there are Jews who hold Israeli citizenship are lying about it.

        that’s not very risky of you since it’s not something politicians generally disclose.

        This is another example of how this site trades in neo-Nazi memes.

        this is another example of you going off on one of your tangents.

      • American
        American on February 5, 2015, 9:30 pm

        ” It’s a neo-Nazi meme to suggest that every Jew who attains a high position should be scrutinized in this way….hoppie
        <<<<<<<<<<<<

        Not really. Everyone considered for a high position should be scrutinized for "Conflicts of Interest".
        Governments used to be very leery of conflicts of interest—before most became corrupted by money and politicized and starting filling government positions according to their special interest donors wishes and recommendations.
        Jews are, because of Israel, now a special case when it comes to conflict of interest and government positions. That is the reality like it or not and its not one non jewish americans created out of anti semitism, its one due to the creation of Israel.
        I could give some examples of German Jews in particular in the 50's that were excellent true blue American patriots in positions in the US government.
        I can give you more examples of some today who are not, who literally act as agents for Israel in their goverment positions and appointments.
        As I said this is the reality–the conflict of interest–that has to be carefully vetted. It doesnt say dont appoint any Jew period–it says do not appoint a Jew whose past behavior ,statements, activities and affiliations indicate he would have a conflict of interest or be inclined to use his position for the benefit of Israel.
        When the Jews, Feith, Perle and others were given positions by Bush adm—they had previously during their gov careers had their security clearences suspended on suspicion of passing classified information to Israel– that should have disqualifed them forever from any US government position and Feith in particular did a lot of damage to the US at the pentgon.
        There is nothing Neo Nazi about it, conflicts of interest are a problem in every government and in other sectors like the judical system. It is only prudent and common sense to try to avoid them.

      • annie
        annie on February 6, 2015, 1:52 am

        It’s a neo-Nazi meme to suggest that every Jew who attains a high position should be scrutinized in this way

        aipac scrutinizes every politician who seeks a high position of power — regarding their support for israel. do you complain about that?

  10. philweiss
    philweiss on February 4, 2015, 12:51 pm

    I dont have a problem with your wanting itnermarriage rate to go down, Yonah. I think communities are allowed to be parochial, it’s the nature of community. My inside-Jewish-life issue is whether people proselytize young people who are in love not to intermarry, which I think can be very hurtful and intrusive– as I experienced when being proselytized.
    But much more, the concern goes to someone who is in public office, public life. If you are in US public office, I dont think it’s OK to advocate against intermarriage. Just as DWS demonstrates, when she walks the comments back. They’re inappropriate for someone representing a diverse community.

    • pjdude
      pjdude on February 4, 2015, 6:11 pm

      so your ok with with supporting a viewpoint that is inherently rooted in a bigoted mindset? by saying you want intermarriage rates of jews to go down your saying it is wrong for jews not to marry jews. whether or not your thinking of it in those terms is irrelevant the message is clear.

      • Mooser
        Mooser on February 4, 2015, 7:46 pm

        But think of it! If we can only keep intermarriage to a minimum, or eliminate it entirely, it’ll be the greatest aid to Jewish identification since Christians started circumcising and screwed that up. In just a few generations, you’ll never have to ask anybody “Are you Jewish?” Nope, just give ’em a little pinch, and see what happens. Blood will tell!

      • oldgeezer
        oldgeezer on February 6, 2015, 10:19 am

        @pjdude
        Unless we’re going to get into thought crimes what’s wrong with such a belief, really?

        It may well be rooted in racism but unless it results in some actions it’s merely a belief.

        I may think that it’s a reason that she is unfit for public office and if she was a candidate in my area I would be prepared to say so but ultimately it’s up to the voters. She’d hardly be the first, or last, racist to hold public office.

        I do disagree that it’s mere parochialism. And at the very least it helps to breed racism or bigotry by promoting the belief that we (whatever group may constitute the we) are different than the rest of humanity.

      • on February 6, 2015, 10:32 am

        In the media that I pay attention to, it seems that many prominent Jews who marry outside the tribe, have partners who convert. I can think of more than a dozen very prominent Jews in the last few years whose non-Jewish partners converted with prominent media attention. Do Jews put a lot of pressure on their partners to convert ? I don’t know the answer to this question. I don’t think that Chelsea Clinton converted?

      • Mooser
        Mooser on February 6, 2015, 12:20 pm

        “In the media that I pay attention to, it seems that many prominent Jews who marry outside the tribe, have partners who convert.”

        Or they sort of absorb it by osmosis. And after the divorce, they have widened their options.

      • seanmcbride
        seanmcbride on February 6, 2015, 12:33 pm

        Mooser,

        “Or they sort of absorb it by osmosis.”

        What precisely do they absorb by osmosis?

      • Mooser
        Mooser on February 6, 2015, 4:37 pm

        “What precisely do they absorb by osmosis?”

        Sean, you know how it is. They get some mamelushen (an excellent emollient) maybe some meshpokha, and ( I hope not too much) meshugass and, more than likely, a whole lotta schmaltz.

      • seafoid
        seafoid on February 6, 2015, 5:07 pm

        watch it Mooser. I won’t hear a word said against schmaltz. Long after Zionism has been ground into dust, connoisseurs will still be frying chicken pieces to render the schmaltz and glory in the flavor.

        Schmalz could actually be the theme that brings together traumatized Jews and real life noor el ain Palestinians.

      • lysias
        lysias on February 6, 2015, 5:23 pm

        Speaking of schmaltz (Yiddish for rendered chicken or goose fat), the analogous German word, Schmalz refers to all kinds of rendered animal fat, what we call “lard” in English.

        Nina Teicholz’s recent book The Big Fat Surprise: Why Butter, Meat and Cheese Belong in a Healthy Diet argues that lard is a very healthy fat to fry foods in, far healthier than most vegetable oilts.

      • Mooser
        Mooser on February 6, 2015, 6:00 pm

        “watch it Mooser. I won’t hear a word said against schmaltz.”

        I would never, ever denigrate that exalted emollient! First of all, I drink only Schmaltz liquor. And I play the organ, and that my friend, requires schmaltz by the bucket-load. It’s not a naturally expressive instrument, so a lot is needed.

    • hophmi
      hophmi on February 5, 2015, 3:23 pm

      “My inside-Jewish-life issue is whether people proselytize young people who are in love not to intermarry, which I think can be very hurtful and intrusive– as I experienced when being proselytized.”

      And I’d like to see statistics on how often this actually happens, as well as at least recognition of the fact that intermarriages can also be extraordinarily hurtful to the people involved if they are in any way religious and they don’t fully understand all of the ramifications; I’ve seen it up close and personal. I think you’re worried about something that was much more prevalent 20 years ago than it is today.

      And while you may not have a problem with people who want the intermarriage rate to go down, a lot of people here certainly seem to.

      “But much more, the concern goes to someone who is in public office, public life. If you are in US public office, I dont think it’s OK to advocate against intermarriage. ”

      OK. I don’t think it’s nearly the big deal you’re making it. Joe Lieberman also had to indicate that he didn’t oppose intermarriage when he ran for VP. I’m not aware of any Christian candidate for office being forced to affirm that he supported intermarriage between Christians and non-Christians.

      • Mooser
        Mooser on February 5, 2015, 6:56 pm

        “And I’d like to see statistics on how often this actually happens, as well as at least recognition of the fact that intermarriages can also be extraordinarily hurtful to the people involved if they are in any way religious and they don’t fully understand all of the ramifications; I’ve seen it up close and personal.”

        Shorter Hophmi: ‘I help wreck marriages, if given the chance! Need any demo work done?’

      • hophmi
        hophmi on February 6, 2015, 1:20 pm

        I wreck marriages? What the hell are you taking about, Mooser? Seriously, why the hell is this guy permitted to post comments like that?

      • wondering jew
        wondering jew on February 6, 2015, 5:54 pm

        hophmi- Mooser has carte blanche. why? when it comes to anti zionists who aren’t anti semitic there are no rules in this knife fight.

      • seafoid
        seafoid on February 6, 2015, 6:03 pm

        Yonah

        It’s not a knife fight. You just run out of words.
        And anti Zionism is not anti Semitic.
        It’s the natural reaction to Zionist thuggery.

      • wondering jew
        wondering jew on February 6, 2015, 6:07 pm

        seafoid- you are relatively uninterested in dialogue. mooser is firmly opposed to dialogue. .

      • Mooser
        Mooser on February 6, 2015, 6:13 pm

        “Seriously, why the hell is this guy permitted to post comments like that?”

        Tribal unity, Hophmi. Put it down to tribal unity.

        And be nice to me, Hophmi, I’m a pure-bred Jew! A-1 breeding stock.

      • justicewillprevail
        justicewillprevail on February 6, 2015, 6:14 pm

        You two are humourless, sour prattlers. Mooser makes a lot of good points quite subtly under the guise of his wit. It can’t be helped if you are too cloth-eared, or puffed up with a disproportionate sense of your own self-importance to see it.But I suppose this is what happens when you wear blinkers all the time.

      • Bornajoo
        Bornajoo on February 7, 2015, 3:20 am

        “You two are humourless, sour prattlers. Mooser makes a lot of good points quite subtly under the guise of his wit. It can’t be helped if you are too cloth-eared, or puffed up with a disproportionate sense of your own self-importance to see it.But I suppose this is what happens when you wear blinkers all the time.”

        Ditto that JWP!

      • Mooser
        Mooser on February 6, 2015, 6:17 pm

        “when it comes to anti zionists who aren’t anti semitic there are no rules in this knife fight.”

        Yonah, my man! You are putting me among the “anti zionists who aren’t anti semitic”?

        Thank you very much. I knew you could see through all the jokes. Gosh, I think I’m the only person you ever said that about! Thank you, Yonah!

        Breeding tells, Yonah, that’s all I can say, breeding tells!

      • seafoid
        seafoid on February 6, 2015, 6:22 pm

        Yonah

        I’m searching for a coherent Zionist. I never guessed it would be so hard.

      • RoHa
        RoHa on February 6, 2015, 7:57 pm

        ” mooser is firmly opposed to dialogue”

        And yet we get some pretty snappy dialogue from him.

      • Mooser
        Mooser on February 6, 2015, 9:18 pm

        “seafoid- you are relatively uninterested in dialogue. mooser is firmly opposed to dialogue.”

        Yonah, I’ve got no time for dialogue while the Jewish ethnic essence is being homogenized into a sort of genetic Wonder-bread by Gentiles. I save my energy for raising the birth-rate. You got a sister?

        BTW, Yonah, what have you done to lower the out-marriage rate and raise the Jewish birth-rate? Numbers would be fine, don’t need a blow-byblow rendering of the story.

      • Mooser
        Mooser on February 7, 2015, 12:03 pm

        “And yet we get some pretty snappy dialogue from him.”

        ” But Dad, I’m serious!! ”

        And as far as I’m concerned, I’ll put my genes up against Hophmi’s or Yonah’s any time. Plus, I’ve got papers!!

        Dora (our Lab) starts bragging on her AKC rating, I pull out my Cradle Roll certificate from Brooklyn Women’s Hospital!
        Okay , she’s got it all over me on ‘confirmation’. I forego pointing out her ears are a bit on the small side for the breed. Then we both trot round the ring, and my wife awards points.

    • oldgeezer
      oldgeezer on February 6, 2015, 10:41 am

      @unverified__5ilf90kd

      Does it really matter if they do put a lot of pressure on people to convert? Catholics certainly do in my area. And you must promise to raise any children as Catholics.

      If I were to fall in love with a Buddhist and had to convert I would do so quite quickly and remain a total atheist.

      • Mooser
        Mooser on February 7, 2015, 12:10 pm

        I fell in love with a Bhuddist once. Funny thing, she didn’t look Bhuddish!

        We broke up, but I never needed pain pills from the dentist again, since she taught me to transcend dental medication!

      • oldgeezer
        oldgeezer on February 7, 2015, 12:22 pm

        @Mooser

        That’s a groaner. Almost like pulling teeth to get a laugh outta the audience.

      • Mooser
        Mooser on February 7, 2015, 1:15 pm

        “That’s a groaner.”

        oldgeezeer” don’t you think I know that? I have very strong principles concerning the right to humorous life! If a joke gets conceived, it gets delivered!

        Hopefully, somebody will adopt the poor thing, and raise it as their own. Why, if my Mom had done to me what should have happened to that joke, I wouldn’t be here! And she told me my birth was a real groaner, too. So I have a lot of empathy for bad jokes.

      • Keith
        Keith on February 7, 2015, 4:29 pm

        MOOSER- “We broke up, but I never needed pain pills from the dentist again, since she taught me to transcend dental medication!”

        Pay no attention to oldgeezer, I liked it!

        Mooser- “If a joke gets conceived, it gets delivered!”

        Have you considered using condiments?

      • Mooser
        Mooser on February 8, 2015, 3:35 pm

        “Have you considered using condiments?”

        I really should, if I want to be a man for all seasonings.

        There has been talk of an intervention, and then sending me to Humornon, a place that cures the worst jokies.

  11. amigo
    amigo on February 4, 2015, 2:31 pm

    Clearly they were highlighting what Israel had done to Gaza and the plight of Palestinians. My first thought was where is the balance, where is the spotlight on what Jewish children in Israel go through from being victims of rocket attacks?”Wasserman.

    Well , maybe Debbie, if you allow the Palestinians to have the kind of weapons you possess , which are in large part paid for by those people who you advocate not inter marrying with, we could see vast swathes of Israel bombed to smithereens and you can have your balance.

  12. Bornajoo
    Bornajoo on February 4, 2015, 3:14 pm

    “Well , maybe Debbie, if you allow the Palestinians to have the kind of weapons you possess , which are in large part paid for by those people who you advocate not inter marrying with, we could see vast swathes of Israel bombed to smithereens and you can have your balance.”

    +10 Amigo!

    • Mooser
      Mooser on February 4, 2015, 11:04 pm

      I don’t know, Bornajoo, but sometimes I find it hard , and gosh, I can’t imagine why, to square a history of being conquered, slavery, wanderings in deserts, settling new places, getting kicked, spreading all around the Mediterranean basin, and further, enduring second class citizenship, expulsions and varying states of state favor, a huge emigration to the New World, the entire thing culminating with a terrible century of anti-Semitism in Europe climaxed by a World War and the Holocaust, with keeping Jewish bloodlines pure. I’m thinkin’ that ship sailed long ago.
      Face it boys, the old escutcheon’s just a bit torn and tattered by now. Genetically, we’re just like anybody else, only more so, of course.

      • Bornajoo
        Bornajoo on February 5, 2015, 5:00 am

        “Face it boys, the old escutcheon’s just a bit torn and tattered by now. Genetically, we’re just like anybody else, only more so, of course”

        Couldn’t agree more Mooser. Debbie or Yonah won’t be very happy with three of us four brothers. Two of us married south East Asian Buddhists by birth and another married a roman Catholic Brazilian.

        But the older one did marry a Jewish Israeli and had four kids who today are all rabid ultra zionists living in the UK. The mother made sure of that and he went along with it in the early days. So he made back the numbers even though he doesn’t share their views anymore

      • Mooser
        Mooser on February 5, 2015, 4:06 pm

        “and another married a roman Catholic Brazilian.”

        Bornajoo, I assure you, I am monogamy’s staunchest fan, but even so, I would throw over Golda Meir, and samba through life with The Girl from Ipenema , had I had the chance, too. I hope things turned out So Nice!

      • Bornajoo
        Bornajoo on February 5, 2015, 5:37 pm

        Nice tune Mooser.

        Things sure did turn out nice.

      • Mooser
        Mooser on February 5, 2015, 6:58 pm

        “Things sure did turn out nice.”

        Well, to tell the truth, I’ve been hoping so since you first mentioned it. Good!

  13. jd65
    jd65 on February 4, 2015, 5:37 pm

    I know of no other way to contact operators of this site so I’m using a comment to contact a moderator. I’d like to delete my account from MW and also delete al of my prior comments. Is this possible? I assume my email is in my personal MW profile so you can feel free to use that to contact me about this possibility. If not, I’ll check back later in my MW profile. Short of those two options, I guess I’ll just suck it up. Thanks…

    • annie
      annie on February 4, 2015, 6:10 pm

      jd65, at the top of everypage there is a tab for the “about page” and our contact info is there. i’d advise emailing adam. i am not sure what our policy is of erasing our archives but i’m not sure if it’s something we do. either way, i am sorry to see you go.

      • jd65
        jd65 on February 4, 2015, 6:20 pm

        Thanks Annie…

      • Mooser
        Mooser on February 4, 2015, 11:21 pm

        Something changed between 12:36pm and now. That’s too bad.

      • annie
        annie on February 4, 2015, 11:29 pm

        yes, too bad. and i hope jd changes his mind too.

      • Eva Smagacz
        Eva Smagacz on February 5, 2015, 8:24 am

        Hope you will be OK….

      • Mooser
        Mooser on February 7, 2015, 12:20 pm

        Okay, of course, I immediately read “jd65” archive, and a fine archive it is too. One I would be proud of myself if I was capable of writing it. I didn’t copy it, but jeez, if he’s worried, is there any better way of making sure somebody does copy it than by announcing you are desperate to have it removed? He is doing a very good imitation of a man who is very frightened of something.

  14. Pixel
    Pixel on February 4, 2015, 6:00 pm

    Chu, great to see you back again so soon. I hope you’ll make a habit of it. You have a lot to say.

    • Chu
      Chu on February 5, 2015, 9:40 am

      Hi Pixel, This comment was so detached from mine, I’m surprised I found it. As there’s a lot of other interesting things in this world, the Israel occupation seems to be a never-ending issue because Israelis are never going to ‘feel” safe and diaspora zionists will always bend the arm of the global politicial class. We could likely talk about this for 4 more decades, as I’m not sure it will ever end.

  15. karendevito
    karendevito on February 4, 2015, 7:16 pm

    An important article. The claim that every time Palestinian tragedies are reported there must me some parallel Israeli point of view permeates North American discourse on the matter. There must always be “balance”–even though the situation is anything but–it is actually heavily asymmetrical as we all know.

    “Purity” can be quite a damaging agument.The discourse on intermarriage is yet another place where the notion of “purity” comes into play–and it is often more than a fear of losing rich traditions. Imposing this notion on children can be very damaging indeed. The White Ribbon is one of the most disturbing films on the subject I have ever seen.

    One small point: the reference to a Bob Jones University barring Catholics from dating non-Catholics sounds like this was a Catholic pronouncement. It was not. It was a statement from a Bible-based Christian University proscribing its students from dating Catholics and other defined groups. It was an admittedly anti-Catholicism statement, but not anti Catholic. In the “love the sinner, hate the sin” vein, I suppose. The statement, BTW, painted Democratic candidates as “radicals” and also referred to “tenets” as “tenants” in magnificent malapropism.

  16. Kay24
    Kay24 on February 4, 2015, 8:22 pm

    Isn’t it ironic that the nazis were made to feel they were a pure race too, and that they should not assimilate? This woman has shown her true colors and feelings here, and it is ugly.

    I wish she had said that Israel’s occupation and violence against it’s neighbors, including land grabs, are adding to their negative image around the world. That would have been more realistic.
    She blames everyone but her masters in Israel for their ills.

    • oldgeezer
      oldgeezer on February 4, 2015, 11:56 pm

      White supremacists, Nazis, Zionists and many others share the same racial views. That is not to equate zionists with nazis. One perpetrated a genocide while the other tries to accomplish the same ends through a lower rate of murder and deprivation.

      • Kay24
        Kay24 on February 5, 2015, 3:01 am

        She would be horrified to know a couple of Jewish folks that I had met recently, and they were both married to Muslims. Heh. I am glad that there are many Jewish folk out there who had risen above the small minded thinking, and getting along with their lives happily, without the BS that Wasserman Schultz keeps harping about. She is yet another Israeli firster, simply taking advantage of her American citizenship to help the mothership.

    • hophmi
      hophmi on February 5, 2015, 10:49 am

      “Isn’t it ironic that the nazis were made to feel they were a pure race too, and that they should not assimilate? ”

      Oh please. She did not say anything about Jews being a pure race. Endorsing the idea that one should marry within a faith is not the same thing as saying other faiths are bad people or lesser people, and I highly doubt you’d ever apply the same standard toward Muslims who endorse endogamy.

      • annie
        annie on February 5, 2015, 11:04 am

        Endorsing the idea that one should marry within a faith is not the same thing as saying other faiths are bad people or lesser people,

        endorse? she did a little more than approve of jews marrying eachother. i think you’re missing the nugget here:

        We have the problem of assimilation, we have the problem of intermarriage, we have a problem that too many generations of Jews don’t realize the importance of our institutions, strengthening our community

      • hophmi
        hophmi on February 5, 2015, 12:48 pm

        “We have the problem of assimilation, we have the problem of intermarriage, we have a problem that too many generations of Jews don’t realize the importance of our institutions, strengthening our community”

        Yes, so by all means, Annie, refrain from trying to understand what she actually means, and just goes with the interpretation that is the most politically self-serving for you. Jews are now not allow to worry about self-perpetuation in the way that just about every other small minority group does.

        Debbie Wasserman-Schultz is quite assimilated. She’s a member of the US Congress. When she says assimilation is a problem, she’s not arguing that Jews shouldn’t speak English, go to Ivy League schools, eat hot dogs and hamburgers (and kale) and drive SUV’s. She’s talking about Jews who have no engagement with Judaism at all, and about the very high intermarriage rates amongst such Jews. Historically, assimilation often meant conversion to Christianity. In America, it often means raising one’s children as Christians, or raising them without religion. She’s talking about the kind of total assimilation where people submerge the entirety of their Jewish identity in an attempt to fit in, the kind that in previous generation resulted in conversion of some kind.

        Do you just want there to be less Jews, Annie? Because that’s what Debbie Wasserman-Schultz is fighting against – the abandonment of any collective sense of identity amongst Jews, the slow destruction of the American Jewish community through complete absorption, rather than assimilation. Be honest. Because there are a lot of anti-Zionists who want just that – they think in terms of John Lennon’s Imagine. That’s putting it generously. I suspect that many of them have simply internalized centuries of anti-Jewish invective.

      • Mooser
        Mooser on February 5, 2015, 4:30 pm

        “Jews don’t realize the importance of our institutions”

        Perhaps Ms. DWS would like to tell us what these “our institutions” are, which all Jews hold in common, belong in some measure to all Jews, or the institutions which even if privately run, are responsible and responsive to all Jews”?
        She probably just means her tribe’s institutions.

      • Keith
        Keith on February 5, 2015, 6:29 pm

        HOPHMI- “When she says assimilation is a problem, she’s not arguing that Jews shouldn’t speak English, go to Ivy League schools, eat hot dogs and hamburgers (and kale) and drive SUV’s.”

        There is a huge difference between integration and assimilation. Undoubtedly Wasserman-Schultz wants American Jews well integrated in society, however, she rather obviously opposes assimilation insofar as it impinges upon Jewish kinship and solidarity. This is all about Jewish elite power-seeking, as I am sure you are aware but steadfastly deny. Perhaps, for accuracy sake, I should refer to East Coast Ashkenazi elite power-seeking.

        Hophmi- “She’s talking about Jews who have no engagement with Judaism at all….”

        Yeah, sure, just like the early atheist founders of the “Jewish” state. They could have cared less about the Judaic religion, it was assimilation, in the true sense of the term, which they feared as an existential threat to the tribe. Jews practicing Judaism but not antagonistic to non-Jews? Unacceptable to Herzl, Ben-Gurion, Wasserman-Schultz and you.

      • Kay24
        Kay24 on February 5, 2015, 7:44 pm

        Somehow I doubt you’d ever apply the same standard toward a Muslim congressperson if they said the same thing. Let me make it simple for you, imagine a hooded member of the KKK standing on a podium and saying they have a problem with assimilation, and intermarriage, what would any sensible person conclude? Now let us look at Wasserman Shultz, a Congress woman, who happens to be Jewish, be implying that assimilating with others is a problem? Of course anyone with some common sense can see that she is against intermarriage, keep the race untainted. Let me help you further, would she be saying the same words to a crowd of people, of mixed religions? Either you are in denial, or good at pretending.

      • Mooser
        Mooser on February 5, 2015, 8:59 pm

        “We have the problem of assimilation”

        No dear upside-down eye-liner lady, we were all “assimilated” the moment we were born. And for you to imply anything else, is kick the very system which has proven very good to the Jews, equal citizenship by birth in America, in the nuts.
        As far as I know “assimilation” is the political and/or administrative process of gaining full citizenship. Jews have the same citizenship as anybody else.

      • pjdude
        pjdude on February 7, 2015, 3:59 pm

        the ideas are implicent in each other hophmi. you can pretend its an innocent mind set but its not. again whether or not your thinking in such terms its the idea that non jews are beneath jews and not fit to be among them. its essentially stating that you feel your better than everyone else because of your jewishness.

      • Mooser
        Mooser on February 7, 2015, 8:02 pm

        Oh no! Can you folks ever forgive me? Here I’ve been trying to joke some sense into Honah and Yophmi, and all the time I didn’t get what the problem is. Now I see, it’s time for somebody to give Hofnah and Yomi the old birds-and-bees talk. Gosh, makes me feel so avuncular! Now listen closely, Huey and Yooey:

        I don’t care what Schumley Boteach says, when you mate the son of an Orthodox Jew with the daughter of an Orthodox Jew, the resulting baby is not born speaking Hebrew, or knowing how to davan or even knowing not to eat tref.
        And ( I know you won’t believe this) if you take the baby of two Gentiles, and it is adopted soon after birth by a Orthodox Jewish family, it can be taught all that stuff and end up a pretty good Jew!
        Trust me, H&Y, it’s amazing what modern science and genetics can do!

      • annie
        annie on February 7, 2015, 10:38 pm

        you’re such a little slickster hops. you get backed into a corner and go for the full onslaught:

        Do you just want there to be less Jews, Annie? …….. the slow destruction of the American Jewish community through complete absorption…… Be honest. Because there are a lot of anti-Zionists who want just that – they think in terms of John Lennon’s Imagine. That’s putting it generously. I suspect that many of them have simply internalized centuries of anti-Jewish invective.

        there no limit to your invective. you’ll say anything to get a rise. how gross of you.

        the American Jewish community does not have a “problem” with assimilation. and they have plenty of jewish institutions, jewish groups, jewish synagogues and museums, hillels and you name it. they are one of the most (if not the most) self-coddled ethnic groups in american society.

        but here’s what they don’t like. jews who step out of line, jews who go off the reservation, jews who don’t support israel or show loyalty to the tribe. but there’s no risk of “the slow destruction of the American Jewish community”. they are completely embolden in most american institutions including federal and state governments so spare me ok. i know what she means. she means, for the most part, don’t marry and reproduce with us, people like me. we get it. and when you socialize, stick with your own kind more than not.

        in new york they are not disappearing, nor LA, SF, berkeley, marin where i live, florida, chicago, universities all across the country, etc etc etc. the american jewish community is flourishing, just maybe not so much in their loyalty to israel. so what? get over it. last i heard they are not flocking in droves to the christian church nor will they be in our lifetime, mark my words.

      • Mooser
        Mooser on February 8, 2015, 3:44 pm

        “Do you just want there to be less Jews, Annie? …….. the slow destruction of the American Jewish community through complete absorption…… “

        Okay, Hophmi, look, I was a bit of a Lothario when I was young, and the times were permissive, but damn, I never even thought of using a line like that on a girl. Sort of a clever variation of “did you know I have a rare disease, and will die a virgin in a week?”

      • Mooser
        Mooser on February 8, 2015, 4:09 pm

        “– they think in terms of John Lennon’s Imagine. “

        Oh no, now he’s got the dreamy music going… Annie, whatever you do, don’t touch the Manischevitz! Even if you took the screw-top off the bottle yourself.

  17. Richard Baldwin Cook
    Richard Baldwin Cook on February 4, 2015, 8:35 pm

    Where’s the balance? Good question. I have an Israeli citizen as one US Senator and neither he, Ben Cardin nor Barbara Mikulski nor Congressman Elijah Cummings will even answer inquiries from me about the legality of home demolitions in occupied Palestine, nor about the mistreatment of African immigrants in Israel. Clearly these elected officials put the interests of a foreign state above the concerns of a constituent in Maryland. Where’s the balance?

  18. hophmi
    hophmi on February 5, 2015, 10:47 am

    You continue to falsely suggest that one cannot assimilate and promote support for Jewish institutions at the same time. This suggestion, this false dichotomy you create, is nonsense, and I do not understand why you continue to pose it, as if there was no continuum with regard to assimilate, and no assimilation without ceasing support of Jewish institutions. One can be quite assimilated and also support Jewish institutions. One can be assimilated and send their children to day school. One can be quite assimilated and also believe that Jews should ideally marry people who share their faith, which to me, is little different than suggesting that people who share common interests are well-suited.

    And once again, you expose a contradiction in your own thinking; you argue on the one hand that Jews are so assimilated and accepted here that they should be subjected to the same ridicule as WASP’s are, and on the other hand, that, by endorsing endogamy and calling for support of Jewish cultural institutions, Jewish leaders are inviting antisemitism. So when you want to justify your penchant for making anti-Jewish statements, you claim that Jews are so assimilated and accepted that they can take it. When you’re confronted with evidence of antisemitism, you claim that it’s the fault of the Jews for not assimilating enough. Whether you’re doing the Uncle Tom thing of setting yourself up as the “good Jew” and other Jews as the bad Jews, as you, and Marc Ellis do frequently through self-congratulatory labels like “Jews of conscience.”

    Your suggestion that Debbie Wasserman-Schultz’s comments can be in any way analogized to the serious problem of immigrant Muslims in European society is tendentious. They are two completely different problems; significant portions of the Muslim community in Europe are not assimilated in any way, and trends in Muslim society put them at greater risk of becoming radicalized, and in turn, carrying out acts of violence against Jews and others in Europe, and Muslims are a far, far greater proportion of the European population than Jews are or will ever be.

    • seafoid
      seafoid on February 5, 2015, 11:06 am

      Hoppy
      Jews were a sizeable proportion of europe’s population in 1900.
      Muslims are not there yet.
      Today in europe jews are more radicalised. Many volunteer for an extremist middle east militia called tsahal which carries out systematic human rights abuses.

      • hophmi
        hophmi on February 5, 2015, 12:34 pm

        “Jews were a sizeable proportion of europe’s population in 1900. Muslims are not there yet.”

        Seriously have no clue what you’re talking about. Do you have any clue what you’re talking about? Muslims make up about 6% of the European population, and the percentage is rising. In 1900, Jews made up 2.2% of the European population, and the percentage was falling; by 1933, Jews were about 1.7% of Europe’s population. And even by 1900, outside of the shtetls, that population was highly assimilated. And the people in the shtetls certainly posed no threat to anyone; they just kept to themselves.

        http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/01/15/5-facts-about-the-muslim-population-in-europe/
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Jewish_population_comparisons#Comparisons

        “Today in europe jews are more radicalised. Many volunteer for an extremist middle east militia called tsahal which carries out systematic human rights abuses.”

        You’re either obscenely ignorant or purposefully lying. There is, by now, voluminous documentation of radical Muslims targeting Jews in Europe. There is no documentation supporting the reverse, ie, Jews targeting Muslims. Even if your BS assertion that European Jews who join the IDF are radicalized were true, your claim that “many” volunteer isn’t; I doubt it’s as much as one-quarter of 1% of the Jewish population of Europe, but if you can find statistics to the contrary, present them. The aliyah rate from France in 2014 wasn’t even as much as 1%, and this is the country with perhaps the worst antisemitism problem in Europe, although that number undoubtedly went up in 2014.

        A recent survey by the Berlin Social Science Center, the largest organization of its kind in Europe, indicates that 60% of European Muslims reject homosexuals as friends, 45% think Jews are untrustworthy, and about the same number believe that the West is out to destroy Islam. 2/3 (!) believe that their religious law is more important that the laws of the country that they live in.

        http://www.wzb.eu/en/press-release/islamic-fundamentalism-is-widely-spread

        So don’t tell me about Jews are more radicalized than Muslims (a complete and total lie that is a great example of projection) and don’t tell me that there is any comparison between the problem of unassimilated European Muslims and mostly assimilated American Jews who support endogamy and support Israel. Both assertions are abject nonsense.

      • hophmi
        hophmi on February 5, 2015, 3:25 pm

        Put through, please.

      • Mooser
        Mooser on February 5, 2015, 5:39 pm

        “Put through, please.”

        Okay, Ernestine.

      • seafoid
        seafoid on February 5, 2015, 6:02 pm

        Hoppy

        What sort of proportion of Orthodox Jews would accept a homosexual son? To the nearest 0%

        And radical- Jews have the IDF to carry out the atrocities. Does it honestly make a difference if the killing is done by nice Jews in uniform or people without uniforms in the case of radical Muslims ?

      • Mooser
        Mooser on February 5, 2015, 7:01 pm

        “What sort of proportion of Orthodox Jews would accept a homosexual son?”

        Been there. They would accept a homosexual son, but it’s a good thing their gay son isn’t gay. Not gay. Nope, not.

      • Keith
        Keith on February 5, 2015, 7:12 pm

        HOPMHI- “There is no documentation supporting the reverse, ie, Jews targeting Muslims.”

        Are you serious? what do you think that the whole “Clash of Civilizations” meme is about? The entire Judeo-Christian imperial juggernaut has declared war on Islam for geostrategic reasons. The empire, of which you are a part, has slaughtered literally millions of defenseless Muslims, either directly or by proxy or by sanctions. And our doctrinal system vilifies Islam constantly. And you feign surprise at the resulting blowback?

      • seafoid
        seafoid on February 5, 2015, 7:28 pm

        Hoppy and his islamophobia really get on my tits. “Most Jews were assimilated”.
        So are most Muslims FFS.

        And how many Euro Jews gave their full throated support for the Gaza massacres last year ?
        The Judische Zeitung was all gung ho about it.

      • hophmi
        hophmi on February 6, 2015, 1:28 pm

        Most modern Orthodox Jews would accept a homosexual child. You have no clue what you’re taking about, seafood. Just admit it.

      • Mooser
        Mooser on February 6, 2015, 9:27 pm

        “Most modern Orthodox Jews would accept a homosexual child.”

        Of course they would, Hophmi! Of course they would, it may not be what they prefer, but they love their child and accept him. But fortunately their son is not gay. When he’s ready, he’ll find a nice Jewish girl (Mom raises eye’s towards heaven and says “Oy Gevalt, by now, any girl, already!”) and get married, and we will dance at his wedding.

      • Mooser
        Mooser on February 7, 2015, 1:38 pm

        “Most modern Orthodox Jews would accept a homosexual child.”

        Gee, Unka Hophmi, I didn’t know Orthodox Jews were concerned with being “modern”, but who knows? I once found a package of Kosher turkey-ham in my Orthodox relative’s refrigerator.

        But no, I think you have a point, Hophmi, and let us prepare a little scenario of how this might play out in real life:

        Mother: “Tevye, I have terrible news! Your son, who you think is such a parshoin is actually a,, a… Oy I can’t say it, he’s a (she flutters her hands and goes “tweet, tweet”)
        Father: A faigelah ? Over that you’re all upset?
        Mother: But he’s pinkt kahpoyer all mixed up!
        Father: Mamila, you’re upset over nothing. Look at it this way: He’ll never shame us by marrying a Gentile!

      • Mooser
        Mooser on February 7, 2015, 8:11 pm

        “He’ll never shame us by marrying a Gentile!”

        That’s what I get for pulling out decades-old material. Marriage equality is a reality now, a good thing, I say. But wow, it does make a lot more problems for those intent on preventing out-marriage, doesn’t it?

        At any rate, doesn’t the overwhelming experience suggest that people are learning to accept that a child may be gay, and it needn’t break up families any more. So they will probably accept their husbands and wives, too.

    • seanmcbride
      seanmcbride on February 5, 2015, 11:22 am

      What assimilation means for most Americans: they don’t spend most of their time bogged down in angry and embittered arguments with their fellow Americans about their narrow ethnic and ethnic nationalist problems and conflicts — they left that baggage behind a long time ago. And they are especially not preoccupied and overwrought about the travails of their foreign “homeland.”

    • seanmcbride
      seanmcbride on February 5, 2015, 11:38 am

      Some useful terms to Google in combination with “endogamy”:

      1. bible
      2. biology
      3. bloodlines
      4. british monarchy
      5. caste system
      6. definition
      7. diseases
      8. disorders
      9. dna
      10. effects
      11. ethnic
      12. ethnic nepotism
      13. examples
      14. genes
      15. genetic diseases
      16. genetic disorders
      17. hinduism
      18. incest
      19. islam
      20. japan
      21. jews
      22. judaism
      23. mental disorders
      24. monarchy
      25. orthodox jews
      26. problems
      27. racism
      28. rothschilds
      29. royal families
      30. saudi arabia
      31. sociology
      32. taboo
      33. types
      34. wikipedia
      35. xenophobia

      The word that first comes to mind with regard to endogamy: “problematic.”

      • FrankinHonduras
        FrankinHonduras on February 5, 2015, 5:07 pm

        Wow, I’m going to do this. Blessings.

    • seanmcbride
      seanmcbride on February 5, 2015, 1:02 pm

      hophmi,

      What being an assimilated American means to me:

      1. I don’t try to confuse the American interest with the Irish or British interest.

      2. I don’t try to goad the United States into foreign wars on behalf of Ireland or Britain.

      3. I don’t demand high levels of American aid for Ireland or Britain.

      4. I don’t insist that Americans “love” and declare their eternal devotion to the Irish or Ireland or to the English or Britain — that would be preposterous — truly degrading and embarrassing.

      5. I never get involved in arguments with my fellow Americans about Irish or English ethnic identity issues.

      6. I am not worked up about my ethnic or religious “enemies.”

      7. I rarely mention my ethnic or religious identity at all — why should I?

      8. I don’t view my fellow Americans through an ethnic or religious prism or filter — what interests me much more about them are their talents and achievements as individuals.

      Do we differ on these matters?

      • seafoid
        seafoid on February 5, 2015, 5:56 pm

        Do you eat potatoes ?

        Have you got any green clothes ?

      • hophmi
        hophmi on February 6, 2015, 1:30 pm

        I don’t care what it means to you Sean. You’re not representative of most Americans.

      • seanmcbride
        seanmcbride on February 6, 2015, 5:47 pm

        hophmi,

        “I don’t care what it means to you Sean. You’re not representative of most Americans.”

        Really? Most Americans agree with the eight points I mentioned above — they keep a low profile regarding their ethnic identity and issues — and they most assuredly are not involved in aggressively lobbying for a foreign “homeland” in a way which draws them into angry confrontations and arguments with their fellow Americans.

        Isn’t this what assimilation in the American context is all about — transcending our respective ethnic and religious ghettos? Relating to one another on a higher level? Surely you must have some illuminating thoughts on these matters.

      • Mooser
        Mooser on February 6, 2015, 6:25 pm

        “You’re not representative of most Americans.”

        Now, wait a second, Hophmi. I can tell by the cut of his tie, that Sean’s an American, and so am I. Hey there, hi there, how-do-ye-do? And while were on the subject, how’s the old wazoo?
        Wazoo? What’s that all about? Well, Hophmi, it’s about this long, and about this wide, and it’s about this great country, about which we is talking about!

        Wow, was I dumb. I thought Zionist omniscience extended only to judging the worthiness of Jews, but now I see it extends to knowing the quality of a person’s Americanism.
        Hey Hophmi, maybe Sean hasn’t “assimilated” yet. Surely you can’t object to that!

      • Mooser
        Mooser on February 6, 2015, 6:29 pm

        “I don’t care what it means to you Sean. You’re not representative of most Americans.”

        Hophmi, if I wasn’t laughing so hard I might choke, I would ask you: “Hey Hophmi, who are you “representative of”? Please, Hophmi, tell us which multitudes you contain!

        Let’s see, ol Hophmi, would you say you were “representative” or ‘typical’?

        I, of course, represent the Lullaby League, and the Lollipop Guild.

      • seanmcbride
        seanmcbride on February 6, 2015, 6:56 pm

        hophmi,

        On the assimilation issue in the American cultural and political context:

        What distinctions do you draw between Americanism and Zionism (Jewish ethnic nationalism)?

        Do you draw any distinctions between Americanism and German or Irish or Swedish ethnic nationalism?

      • Walid
        Walid on February 6, 2015, 9:06 pm

        “Have you got any green clothes ?”

        Do you wear your pants short at the ankles?

      • Mooser
        Mooser on February 8, 2015, 3:50 pm

        Ever been in an Israeli prison? Do you like IDF movies?

      • American
        American on February 8, 2015, 5:44 pm

        hophmi,
        “I don’t care what it means to you Sean. You’re not representative of most Americans.” ->>>>>

        Sean did get this one right.

        “Most’ americans do not care if you or any other relig/ethnics ‘assimilate’ under the actual definition of assimilate:

        assimilate – definition of assimilate in English from the …
        http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/…/definition/…/assi...
        OxfordDictionaries

        1.1Absorb and integrate (people, ideas, or culture) into a wider society or culture.

        You do not have to ‘adopt’ traditional american (european.etc) culture(s), you do not have to take part in wider society, you can keep whatever you want of your own culture and religion. You can live like the Quakers or Mormons or Penn Dutch or the odd ball Jews in Willamsburg if you want to….you arent forced to mingle or associate with anyone you dont want to.

        As Long As……you live by the laws of the nation or prevailing state/local laws.
        As Long As…you are not ‘actively’ hostile to others or subversive of the nation..
        As Long As….you do not demand privilages for your particular ethnic/relig that affect the majority, other minorities or the common good.

        Those are all the rights you or anyone else is really entitled to in the US.

      • seanmcbride
        seanmcbride on February 8, 2015, 9:13 pm

        American,

        Americans who spend more time and energy lobbying for a foreign nation than for the interests of Americans clearly haven’t been assimilated into American culture. Americans who regularly attack the American government on behalf of a foreign government will usually be viewed as traitors by most Americans — as dangerous alien enemies within.

    • Mooser
      Mooser on February 6, 2015, 12:33 pm

      “You continue to falsely suggest that one cannot assimilate and promote support for Jewish institutions at the same time.”

      You tell him, Hophmi! Hasn’t Keith ever heard of Hasbara, or social media? You can’t go around to classy Gentile corporations or media conglomerates in a caftan and fedora, you know. You wear a nice suit and ixnay on all the Yiddish expressions. Assimilation (he,heh,heh) is part of the job, a necessary pose.
      And implying that Jews aren’t smart enough to pull that off? That’s not nice!

  19. just
    just on February 5, 2015, 11:02 am

    Here’s “assimilation” for you.

    “Israel has cheered a UN Human Rights Council decision to appoint American jurist Mary McGowan-Davis as the replacement for William Schabas who resigned from his post as chairman of the UN inquiry into the Israeli war in Gaza.

    Israel’s Haaretz newspaper described the American judge as “more balanced toward Israel”, pointing out that Israel has already cooperated with her in the Goldstone commission.

    According to the newspaper, Davis chaired a committee of the Human Rights Council that worked to implement the recommendations of the Goldstone Commission report on the war on Gaza in 2008-2009 dubbed “Operation Cast Lead”.

    In her report, Davis criticised Israel for not concluding its investigations but wrote that “Israel dedicated remarkable resources to investigate more than 400 claims on unethical performance in Gaza and that the army investigations are acceptable.”

    Haaretz noted that Davis was among the reasons that led Judge Goldstone to write his article in which he retreated from part of the conclusions he presented on “Operation Cast Lead”.

    At the time, Goldstone wrote that if he was aware of the facts presented in Davis’s report, he would have written a different document.”

    https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/news/europe/16774-israel-welcomes-schabas-successor-as-head-of-un-inquiry-on-gaza-

    (btw, did anyone else listen to Diane Rehm today? Nick Burns, David Schenker, Hisham Melhem, and Hisham Melhem gave it their best. Go after Assad, Iran and Russia. Blame the “Arab States” resoundingly, while they were after everybody but the US/Israel/ and the “West”!)

    • Bornajoo
      Bornajoo on February 5, 2015, 11:07 am

      Thanks Just

      How f**#*#g predictable. Another whitewash on the way. Their power and influence never ceases to amaze me.

    • just
      just on February 5, 2015, 11:43 am

      whoops, the other (4th) person was Marwan Muasher.

    • Kay24
      Kay24 on February 5, 2015, 7:47 pm

      If they welcomed the news, chances are the American official will be easier to manipulate.
      Ah these cunning zionists.

    • Rusty Pipes
      Rusty Pipes on February 6, 2015, 7:48 pm

      Sadly, I did hear it. To the uninitiated, there may have appeared to be some variety in ethnicities represented; but in opinion, there was little deviation from the neocon/neolib narrative.

  20. seafoid
    seafoid on February 5, 2015, 11:28 am

    Christ. Zionism is so depressing.

    a bit of decent music to lift the gloom

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4du5a9uJ9s

    If Jewish intermarriage is a problem change the rules about who is a Jew
    I would expel all bots for a start and bring in fresh blood , like Muslims and Christians who aren’t paranoid.

    • Mooser
      Mooser on February 5, 2015, 4:46 pm

      Well, the usual procedure is to rent (or buy) a building, clean it up, get at least a Hammond organ and a piano, (Philip Munger hopefully, will be the Isaac Watts) put out the word, open the doors on a Saturday morning, start preaching, and see who shows up. Say what you believe, and see who comes back next week. Here’s an example Nobody wants to get burned up!
      I think there a big prize out there for the persons who establish (in the sense of signing the rent check, not getting a US Gov endorsement!) a non-Zionist or post-Zionist Jewish religious fellowship.

      • Mooser
        Mooser on February 5, 2015, 4:59 pm

        It would be good for everybody! Doesn’t anyone else remember the series of debates after the banquet which forever cemented in stone the relations between the Orthodox, Conservative and Reform denominations?

      • seafoid
        seafoid on February 5, 2015, 5:47 pm

        Mooser

        Get the Hammond organ in and I’ll see if Booker T is available

        He’ll start off with a song for the lost Zionists who think history is over, lordy

        They obviously don’t know about that Reform, Conservative and Orthodox meeting in Erez Israel Hashlemah

      • Mooser
        Mooser on February 5, 2015, 7:16 pm

        Well, we can differ on presentation, and liturgies always evolve, but a non-Zionist or post-Zionist Jewish religious fellowship, would provide a viable, visible alternative.

        And then we will go up against the Zionists, mano a mano and out-fum them them seven ways from Saturday. First of all, we declare our Jewish denomination is open to everybody and it embraces, potentially all of mankind and womens, too. And then we can marry people, and claim to have a absolutely ZERO out-marriage rate! Let’s see the Lubavitchers top that!

  21. OyVey00
    OyVey00 on February 5, 2015, 3:10 pm

    Why do my posts get censored at random again? I literally can’t even politely reply to people anymore, yet alone write anything controversial without having my post thrashed. I’m perfectly sure nothing of what I wrote broke the comment guidelines.

    • Mooser
      Mooser on February 5, 2015, 5:01 pm

      C’mon, man, it’s ‘moderated’ not, “censored”. You really should learn the difference.

    • FrankinHonduras
      FrankinHonduras on February 5, 2015, 5:13 pm

      Given all this over the history of Judaism why do they treat the Palestinians like they were, and continue to wage war on Islam? Sarah’s contempt over Hagar comes to my mind. Yours?

    • seafoid
      seafoid on February 5, 2015, 5:53 pm

      OyVey00 February 5, 2015, 3:10 pm “Why do my posts get censored at random again? “-

      Health and safety. It’s out of my hands, I’m afraid

  22. TdBerg
    TdBerg on February 5, 2015, 4:50 pm

    Wow. This is really sickening….

  23. Atlantaiconoclast
    Atlantaiconoclast on February 5, 2015, 5:05 pm

    She like most powerful people in most Jewish institutions, has very little self awareness. If you are Jewish you can bemoan the demographic challenges to your people, but if non Jewish European shows concern for the demographic challenges happening to her people, then that person is a “White supremacist!” The double standard must end.

    And how hard is it for some to understand, maybe some Jews are hated, not for being Jewish, but for what they have done to other peoples? Are we supposed to believe Jews are somehow exempt from the worst aspect of human nature and tribalism? This belief in Jewish exceptionalism is proof positive that Jewish supremacism is a real problem.

    • Mooser
      Mooser on February 5, 2015, 8:39 pm

      “This belief in Jewish exceptionalism is proof positive that Jewish supremacism is a real problem.”

      And the funniest part is this: If some dictator hated the Jews, what would he do? He would, right off the top, forbid them to marry anybody else, or people to marry them, and let us stew in our own genes over generations and not be able to make alliances by marriage with other people.
      In every way, it’s sheer stupidity, a recipe for ethnic suicide.

      So, of course, that’s the default position of the professional Jews.

      Can I ask a question I’d rather not know the answer to? Why does there forever seem to be one cohort, or group, or class, or whatever it is, of us, that seems insanely committed to controlling, bossing around, (and in general act like the Jews belong to them) other Jews using Jewishness or Judaism as their club? And they’ve never been frickin right about anything, they’re wrong every time, but there they are, all the time. Why is that?
      Are other religions afflicted by the same class of professional religionists?
      Ah, forget it. I’m sorry I asked.

  24. Kay24
    Kay24 on February 5, 2015, 9:16 pm

    I don’t know much about her constituency, but those who are non Jews, and Jewish folk with fair minds, should be outraged that Wasserman Schultz considers their votes good enough for her, but when it comes to “assimilation and intermarriage” the non Jews do not count. There is a place for her on this Earth called Israel – she will fit in very well over there.

    • Mooser
      Mooser on February 6, 2015, 4:55 pm

      ” the non Jews do not count.”

      Maybe DWS thinks her’s is a diplomatic way to help keep any of her non-Jewish constituents from making a mistake they will regret until the divorce is finalized, and maybe a long time after that depending on the amount of alimony or child-support?
      She was just trying to do it in such a way as not to insult anybody, and that’s not easy.

    • Rusty Pipes
      Rusty Pipes on February 6, 2015, 8:11 pm

      While her district has a high percentage of Jews, most of her constituents are not Jewish. Even more relevant, as chair of the DNC, the vast majority of her constituents (or at least the people who receive her constant fundraising e-mails) are not Jewish or Christian Zionists. While her firmly pro-Israel statements may be an asset for raising money from major donors for the DNC, they are out of touch with a growing percentage of the Democratic base.

      Ten years ago, the Democratic netroots lobbied hard for a change at the DNC and got Howard Dean voted as chair. After all that Dean accomplished, Obama replaced him and the 50-state strategy with worn-out DNC tactics of appealing to major donors and supporting safe candidates. It’s time to dump Debbie and get some leadership that is more in touch with the base if this party is going to be prepared to compete to take back the House and Senate in 2016 (not to mention, have a little excitement about the presidential race).

  25. Whizdom
    Whizdom on February 6, 2015, 3:46 pm

    Netanyahu married out with spouse #2, he turned out fine.

    • Kay24
      Kay24 on February 6, 2015, 8:38 pm

      I am sure their domestic help will tell you different. Heh.

  26. Sulphurdunn
    Sulphurdunn on February 7, 2015, 12:41 pm

    Left to their own devices, untainted by cultural prejudice, people will assimilate naturally. Assimilation has always been the best solution to the worlds ethnic and racial problems. Declawing religion is also essential. Those who oppose assimilation and religious tolerance are always the problem, never the solution.

  27. Mooser
    Mooser on February 8, 2015, 3:57 pm

    “Left to their own devices, untainted by cultural prejudice, people will assimilate naturally”

    Would Annie lie? She knows!

  28. hophmi
    hophmi on February 11, 2015, 11:01 am

    Just another example of why intermarriage is a challenge for Jews in a society where Christianity is hegemonic, and why Jews as a community might advocate for their young people choosing life partners that share their religious and cultural practices:

    http://experience.usatoday.com/weekend/story/entertainment/2014/11/25/jon-stewarts-not-so-happy-hanukkah/19514495/

    • Mooser
      Mooser on February 11, 2015, 10:59 pm

      And yet somehow, God only knows how, Jews and Gentiles have been intermarrying for generations in the US. And for some reason, in spite of how awful it is, they keep on doing it. And having children, to of all Jewish fractional denominations. And divorcing sometimes, and possibly remarrying.
      So I gotta ask, Hophmi, why can’t you and all the other Jewish Leaders make Jews-marrying-Jews an attractive proposition? All you try to do is scare us out of marrying Gentiles.
      Hophmi, did it ever occur to you that maybe the 58% saw or experienced something which scared them out of marrying a Jew? And made the challenges of marrying a Gentile worth it? They have their reasons for marrying out, they seem to be stronger than your ‘examples’ (such as they are, unverifiable bullshit) for marrying in.

      What a freakin clown you are Hophmi! What a morbid interest you have in controlling other people’s sex romantic and marital lives. It’s too bad Jews don’t know what the hell they are doing without your guidance, Hophmi.

    • Mooser
      Mooser on February 11, 2015, 11:04 pm

      Oh my freakin God on a Pogo stick. I clicked Hophmi’s link. It’s a satirical article about “Jon Stewart’s not-so-happy-Hannukah”:

      “Trying to convince the kids that it’s a viable holiday – it’s hard,” the Daily Show host says.

      “We tell the kids we light the candles. It’s symbolic. My wife is Catholic, so they also know the fat guy with the beard is coming with toys. Try to compete with that with some potato pancakes. We’re getting crushed on all fronts. What do you eat for Passover? Matzo. What do you eat for Easter? Chocolate eggs. You’re 10 –what do you want to do?

      This is Hophmi’s example of irreconcilable Jewish-Gentile marital differences! Hophmi, the article is satirical! But good ol’ Hophmi bites on it, and hard. Wow!

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