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Warriors for ‘the ultimate truth’ gather in New York

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“Israel is an apartheid state.” For a second, I think I must have misheard. I’m at a gala in downtown Manhattan on February 3 held by the ultra-Zionist newspaper Algemeiner, and the opening speaker appears to be going off-script. “Israel targets civilians,” she continues. Is this an awkward attempt at reverse psychology? Did she feel a last-minute pang of sympathy for the Palestinians on her way here, tossing her prepared speech out of the Uber and starting anew? She rattles off a few more common criticisms of Israel, none of which any honest observer would dispute, before pulling a quick rhetorical 180 that by now the audience is prepared for: “These are some of the lies you hear in the mainstream media.” It’s going to be a long evening.

The gala is meant to honor the “Jewish 100,” a list of the “top 100 people positively influencing Jewish Life.” The list of honorees, many of whom are not Jewish, includes Indian Prime Minister Narenda Modi, One Direction member Harry Styles, and the Pope. Algemeiner is not exactly a household name, but it has managed to carve out a niche for itself publishing online articles filled with a particularly rabid brand of hasbara. “Why do 80% of Palestinians Support Murder?” one piece asks. Another approvingly quotes an Israeli think-tank’s claim that “almost 50% of those killed in Gaza” during Operation Protective Edge were “terrorist operatives” (according to the Gaza Health Ministry, 70% were civilians, while a recent AP investigation concluded that only 11% were militants). The publication’s tone should be familiar to anyone who has waded into the morass of right-wing Zionist propaganda: fear masquerading as strength.

Heather Nauert

Heather Nauert

The night’s MC is Fox News’ Heather Nauert, who peppers her speech with country club flourishes – “isn’t that something?” – as she touts the accomplishments of Great (not necessarily Jewish) Jews. In fact, the distinction between Jewish and gentile has been all but obliterated. The meal may be kosher, but the message is inclusionary: “You can be of any race, nationality, or religion – we don’t care. As long as you support Israel, Jews will consider you an honorary member of the tribe.” Of course, by Jews they mean Zionists. More specifically, they mean the people who work at Algemeiner.

A video scored with dramatic Game of Thrones-eque music starts to play. A dramatic voiceover intones, “As the Qassams rained down, an iron dome sprang into action.” TMZ footage of Joan Rivers suggesting that Palestinians be given nose jobs elicits raucous laughter and applause. Melissa Rivers accepts the night’s first “Warrior for Truth” award on behalf of her mother, speaking of the many trees planted in Israel in her honor. “At this point I think I control enough Israel real estate that I think we should open negotiations for the first Trump L’Chaim golf course,” she cracks.

The joke is a nod to another guest of honor, The Donald himself, who is here to accept the “Liberty” award for reasons that remain largely unclear. He begins by awkwardly bragging about his newly Jewish daughter, who converted in 2009 before her marriage to New York Observer owner Jared Kushner (also in attendance): “I have a Jewish daughter! This wasn’t the plan, but I’m very glad it happened.” Since Trump himself didn’t follow suit, it’s safe to say his approval is based less on the religion itself than on the cachet he believes a Jewish daughter gives him among the Zionist socialite set.

Rounding out the night is Knesset Speaker Yuli Edelstein, who accepts the second “Warrior for Truth” award of the night. His speech, longer and more somber than the others, sums up the prevailing mood: a lamentation not that Palestinians are systematically persecuted, but that this persecution might be acknowledged by the mainstream press. In a pensive tone, Edelstein bemoans, “There’s no truth anymore. It’s all about different narratives, different histories…and we all have to understand each other. There is no truth anymore. And I will immediately kind of disclaim and say no, I don’t mean that we all have to fight each other. We can and should understand each other, obviously. We don’t have to shout. But there is still ultimate truth. There are no two truths.” He’s right of course, but not in the sense he intends. The truth is that Edelstein’s government regularly displaces, imprisons and massacres Palestinian civilians in order to maintain a permanent Jewish majority and quell any attempted uprisings against the illegal Israeli occupation.

When someone like Yuli Edelstein speaks about “the ultimate truth,” he is talking not about truth itself but about a monopoly on what is considered true. It is a monopoly that Israel has enjoyed for most of its existence. Statements like that of CBS host Bob Schieffer – whose reporting on Protective Edge included the claim that Palestinians are actively trying to get their children killed – are still all too common. Establishment media’s pro-Israel bias is still pervasive enough that Rula Jebreal was fired from MSNBC after making undeniable claims about the underrepresentation of Palestinians on cable news.

Yet during this past summer’s assault on Gaza, there was also an ever-so-slight acknowledgement among some prominent outlets that Palestinians were humans too and that Israel was not the eternal victim. This barely perceptible sea change resulted largely from first-hand accounts of the carnage in Gaza that kept leaking out through the cracks until their truth was undeniable, and it was enough to seriously frighten die-hard defenders of Zionism.

As long as Israel’s PR machine is able to spin ethnic cleansing into something palatable to the liberal mind, the systematic dispossession of the Palestinian people will continue unabated. Edelstein shouldn’t be worried about the Algemeiner crowd, and by the ease with which he spoke it seems like he wasn’t. He has their everlasting devotion, regardless of how many atrocities pile up in the coming years. The ones he should be worried about are members of the American left, many of them Jews, who little by little are starting to hear the hate underneath the hype. It sounds a lot like a Joan Rivers joke.

Peter F. Leisane

Peter F. Leisane is a pseudonym for a writer who does not wish to reveal how he came to attend the Algemeiner gala

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46 Responses

  1. Donald on February 17, 2015, 9:46 am

    The AP study that said 11 percent were militants was about the portion of deaths (at least 844)) caused by air strikes on family homes, not all of the deaths. They found that 60 percent were women children and old men and so definitely civilian, as one would expect. 11 percent were identified as militants, whatever that means exactly. You could be a militant and not be participating in combat when your house is hit. The remainder were adult men where there is no evidence of “militancy”.

    Anyway the report is devastating and proves that the targeting of homes did exactly what one would expect–it killed mostly innocent civilians. But the study is about one particular tactic employed and the 11 percent refers to that (barbaric) tactic.

  2. just on February 17, 2015, 9:58 am

    An important addition to the burgeoning documentation of the “ultimate truth”. The more these groups and individuals are exposed, the better the chance for justice.

    Thanks, ‘Peter’!!!

  3. JLewisDickerson on February 17, 2015, 10:25 am

    Scrutinizing that photo of Heather Nauert, she represents much of what is so wrong with the mainstream/corporate news.
    What beautiful skin!
    What gorgeous hair!
    What perfect teeth!
    What a ditz!

    • JLewisDickerson on February 17, 2015, 11:05 am

      RE: “What a ditz!” ~ me (from above)

      LESAINE: The night’s MC is Fox News’ Heather Nauert, who peppers her speech with country club flourishes – “isn’t that something?”

    • ckg on February 17, 2015, 2:53 pm

      On SNL 40, Jane Curtin joked what it was like hosting SNL Weekend Update: “I used to be the only pretty blonde woman reading the fake news. Now there’s a whole network devoted to that.”

      • JLewisDickerson on February 18, 2015, 2:44 am

        MY REPLY: Amen!

        Outlandish – Amen

        Outlandish
        From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

        [EXCERPT] Outlandish is a hip-hop music group based in Denmark. Formed in 1997, it consists of Isam Bachiri (born in Denmark and of Moroccan background), Waqas Ali Qadri (born in Denmark and of Pakistani background), and Lenny Martinez (born in Honduras and of Cuban and Honduran descent). All three members are religious, with Isam and Waqas being Muslims and Lenny being Catholic. . .

        SOURCE – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outlandish

  4. annie on February 17, 2015, 11:02 am

    thanks “peter” you really captured so much of the spirit behind pro israel advocacy. i especially liked:

    When someone like Yuli Edelstein speaks about “the ultimate truth,” he is talking not about truth itself but about a monopoly on what is considered true.

    this reminds me of the kind of framing/narrative we hear so often here in comments by pro israel commenters. one of the ones i read this morning:

    a Jew can never be more at home than in Israel. This is always true.

    except obviously, it’s not “always true” it’s simply presented as an “ultimate truth”. (the sentence prefaced/supported the commenters concept danish jews would be making aliyah, as i recall)

    and when you wrote “Of course, by Jews they mean Zionists. More specifically, they mean the people who work at Algemeiner. ” it reminds me of the big collective “we” of organized jewry.

    it’s designed to confuse us for we know that embedded in anti semitism lies a requirement of stereotyping “the collective jew”, yet that same feature is something frequently wielded as a weapon by those who seek to speak – presumably as an advocate – for all jews, hence reinforcing the concept of a stereotypical collective jew. it’s crazy.

    • Mooser on February 17, 2015, 11:47 am

      Annie, I don’t know, this Peter Leisane guy is sort of a zelig, isn’t he?

      • annie on February 17, 2015, 1:54 pm

        i had to look up “zelig” mooser (i’ve always been vocabularily [new word] challenged). i’m not sure who peter is but i like the article! and i have NO IDEA what this is: the nudibranch that seems to swim by continuously turning itself inside-out into a new space, like a living, three-dimensional Mobius strip.

      • Mooser on February 17, 2015, 5:14 pm

        “i had to look up “zelig” mooser”

        Well, then, why not save me the trouble, and tell me what it means?

        I guess I’m going to have to scour You-tube for that stupid nudibranch I saw. This time I’m gonna book mark it. My wife will want to know why I’m staying up late looking at nudi videos, but I’ve had to explain worse.

        “i’m not sure who peter is”

        Maybe he is the zelig’s dybbuk. Who knows?

      • JLewisDickerson on February 19, 2015, 1:36 am

        Zelig
        From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

        [EXCERPT] Zelig is a 1983 American mockumentary film written and directed by Woody Allen and starring Allen and Mia Farrow. Allen plays Leonard Zelig, a nondescript enigma who, out of his desire to fit in and be liked, takes on the characteristics of strong personalities around him. The film, presented as a documentary, recounts Zelig’s intense period of celebrity in the 1920s and includes analyses from present day intellectuals.
        The film was photographed and narrated in the style of 1920s black-and-white newsreels, which are interwoven with archival footage from the era, and re-enactments of real historical events. Color segments from the present day include interviews of real and fictional personages, including Saul Bellow and Susan Sontag. . .
        SOURCE – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zelig

    • Mooser on February 17, 2015, 11:50 am

      “it’s designed to confuse us for we know that embedded in anti semitism lies a requirement of stereotyping “the collective jew”, yet that same feature is something frequently wielded as a weapon by those who seek to speak – presumably as an advocate – for all jews, hence reinforcing the concept of a stereotypical collective jew. it’s crazy.”

      I am going to have to find that video of the nudibranch that seems to swim by continuously turning itself inside-out into a new space, like a living, three-dimensional Mobius strip.

      I mean, that’s great for a nudibranch, but I’m not sure people are designed to do it without ill effect. And it’s not like the nudibranch makes any headway, either, it barely keeps up with the current.

      • just on February 17, 2015, 12:42 pm

        Here’s one of many, Mooser!

      • Mooser on February 17, 2015, 12:56 pm

        I think it was a nudibranch called the “Spanish Dancer”. And it may have been the camera angle which gave it the inside-out 3-dMobius strip effect. But the second I saw it, I said: “There it is, that’s just what it’s like”

        There’s a lot of nudibranchs (found, naturally, in colonies), some are more organized than others.

    • Marnie on February 17, 2015, 1:59 pm

      “a Jew can never be more at home than in Israel. This is always true.”

      What kind of Jew can one only be in Israel? What are the magical properties in the borderless “state” that enables this Jew-ness that just isn’t possible anywhere else? What is wrong with a Jew that can’t be at home in their actual home, but only in someone else’s?

      • JeffB on February 17, 2015, 4:56 pm

        @Marnie

        What kind of Jew can one only be in Israel? What are the magical properties in the borderless “state” that enables this Jew-ness that just isn’t possible anywhere else?

        Judaism as the state religion. As (I presume) a Christian you often don’t realize how Christian your society is. As a Jew when you go to Israel where Judaism is reinforced as part of the culture rather than something you need to fight against it is simply amazing. Every sink in a restaurant has a cup for doing the netilat yadayim blessing. The bus schedule on Saturday is organized around when the 3rd star appears in the sky. For a women where ever you are on shabbat there will be candles to light. Well over 1/2 the restaurants are kosher. I have to carry a kippah at all times, in America twice a year needing one would be pushing it. etc… There are some real upsides to having your religion be the state religion. Especially a religion like Judaism which is a PIA to practice.

        Even the Muslims or Druze know quite a bit of Jewish law the same way that I as a Jew know a lot about Christianity. Conversely Christianity and Islam unless you go searching for it, don’t exist. To the age old, “don’t they know its Christmas time” the answer is “no they don’t. they have heard of Christmas time but it passes unremarked on”. I’ve been in Buddhist countries for Christmas and they know what it is. It is truly delightful to see Christmas decorations as an oddity in Christian places.

        Then you combine that with the fact that the undermining messages associated with Judaism don’t exist there. You don’t see Jerry Seinfeld as the model Jew but rather children grow up with IDF heroes. Jewish children are raised with values like loyalty and love not sarcasm and cynicism.

        If you could just for a moment drop the anti-colonial nonsense see how much going back to Judean soil heals Jews from angst that characterizes their almost undead existence in the diaspora, never really fitting in, you wouldn’t be calling it someone else’s home. Israel is their home.

      • talknic on February 18, 2015, 12:31 am

        @ JeffB

        ” Jew when you go to Israel where Judaism is reinforced as part of the culture ….”

        Coveting other folk’s property is not Judaism.
        Nor is the illegal acquisition of territory .
        Nor is illegal annexation or the illegal settlement of other folks territory or lying.
        Especially lying to one’s own citizens about not having declared borders .
        Lying about UN bias .
        Lying about having bought the territory of the state .
        Nor is dispossessing and preventing citizens of the Jewish state from returning to their rightful homes

        “If you could just for a moment drop the anti-colonial nonsense see how much going back to Judean soil heals Jews from angst that characterizes their almost undead existence in the diaspora, never really fitting in, you wouldn’t be calling it someone else’s home. Israel is their home”

        Wonderful, whatever bullsh*t you need to spout pal. So when is Israel the Jewish state, going to start adhering to the basic tenets of Judaism, stop lying to its citizens and the world an itself and begin to adhere to International Law and get the f&*k out of all non-Israeli territories? There’s actually nothing stopping Israel from becoming a law abiding state except the illegal Zionist plan to colonize Palestine.

      • Kris on February 18, 2015, 12:51 am

        @JeffB: “If you could just for a moment drop the anti-colonial nonsense see how much going back to Judean soil heals Jews from angst that characterizes their almost undead existence in the diaspora, never really fitting in, you wouldn’t be calling it someone else’s home. Israel is their home. ”

        Angst and an “almost undead” existence? Seriously? Is this “the Jewish predicament” that Mayhem referred to in his comment about the Jewish summer camp article?

        JeffB, this is really sick. What you’re saying isn’t about religion, it’s about antisocial personality disorder. The DSM-5 defines the antisocial personality as having three or more of the following traits:

        Regularly breaks or flaunts the law
        Constantly lies and deceives others
        Doesn’t feel remorse or guilt
        Has little regard for the safety of others
        Can be prone to fighting and aggressiveness
        Irresponsible, can’t meet financial obligations
        Is impulsive and doesn’t plan ahead

        http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2015/02/12/differences-between-a-psychopath-vs-sociopath/

      • Kris on February 18, 2015, 1:05 am

        JeffB, this is a better explanation:

        “The Antisocial Personality Disorder* is characterized by a pervasive pattern of disregard for the rights of other people that often manifests as hostility and/or aggression. Deceit and manipulation are also central features. In many cases hostile-aggressive and deceitful behaviors may first appear during childhood. These children may hurt or torment animals or people. They may engage in hostile acts such as bullying or intimidating others. They may have a reckless disregard for property such as setting fires. They often engage in deceit, theft, and other serious violations of standard rules of conduct. When this is the case, Conduct Disorder (a juvenile form of Antisocial Personality Disorder) may be an appropriate diagnosis. Conduct Disorder is often considered the precursor to an Antisocial Personality Disorder.

        “In addition to reckless disregard for others, they often place themselves in dangerous or risky situations. They frequently act on impulsive urges without considering the consequences. This difficulty with impulse control results in loss of employment, accidents, legal difficulties, and incarceration. Persons with Antisocial Personality Disorder typically do not experience genuine remorse for the harm they cause others. However, they can become quite adept at feigning remorse when it is in their best interest to do so (such as when standing before a judge). They take little to no responsibility for their actions. In fact, they will often blame their victims for “causing” their wrong actions, or deserving of their fate. The aggressive features of this personality disorder make it stand out among other personality disorders as individuals with this disorder take a unique toll on society.” http://www.sevencounties.org/poc/view_doc.php?id=564

        Scary; this describes Zionist Jews, as well as your own attitudes as reflected in many of your comments, all too accurately.

      • RoHa on February 18, 2015, 1:08 am

        Kris, I can’t put a lot of trust in an author who doesn’t know the difference between “flaunt” and “flout”.

        That said, I agree that JeffB is talking about some sort of personality disorder. (Unless by “their almost undead existence” he is telling us that Jews are vampires.)

        And replacing that personality disorder with another does not justify the evil of Zionism.

      • oldgeezer on February 18, 2015, 1:58 am

        @weejeffie

        Your hyperbole accepted fir sake of argument your issues wrt angst and feeling undead do not constitute title deeds.

        No it is not your land and yes it is someone elses.

        Undead indeed. Juvenile. Which are you vampires werewolves or zionist zombies

      • justicewillprevail on February 18, 2015, 6:24 am

        So millions of people living there peaceably must be dispossessed, imprisoned, thrown out of their family houses and off their land, put under constant surveillance and siege and denied basic human rights – all so that you can be surrounded by your cultural symbols in your theme park? And they weren’t surrounded by their own culture and symbols for centuries? Why should they be denied what you want? And you want the US taxpayer to foot the bill, fight your endless wars and do your bidding at government level? And all this for a comfort blanket in a foreign country, which is so attractive to you that you don’t actually live there, and instead avail yourself of a perfectly good comfort blanket in the US? Imagine if all the world demanded two homes by right, at the expense and lives of others.

      • Rob Roy on February 18, 2015, 1:38 pm

        Marnie: Methinks you must have gone to annual Jewish summer camp in Israel where the word “Palestine” is never mentioned and children are brainwashed from morning to night about how wonderful it is to be Jewish and gloriously protect the homeland against the rest of the world that wants to destroy it. There are even mid-night wake-ups to put the children through military drills so that they know they will grow up to defend Israel in the IDF, the most “moral” military in the world. (NOT) The children return home each summer gung-ho patriotic to a sickening degree. Religion and patriotism, the worst combination of sociopathy. – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2015/02/warriors-ultimate-gather?replytocom=747979#respond

      • eljay on February 18, 2015, 7:36 am

        >> JeffBeee @ February 17, 2015, 4:56 pm

        1. The solution to an overly-difficult-to-practise religion is to reform the religion, not to create a religion-supremacist state at the expense of the indigenous population in order to make that religion more manageable for its adherents.

        2. There’s something seriously wrong with a religion that requires the existence of a religion-supremacist state in order for its adherents to avoid living an “almost undead existence” in their various homelands around the world.

      • Mooser on February 18, 2015, 10:22 am

        Gee, I wonder what it feels like to be a Jew in Northridge, Cal. (Capital of the porn industry, BTW)
        If only there was somebody who could tell us!

      • Mooser on February 18, 2015, 10:28 am

        “What kind of Jew can one only be in Israel?”

        Marnie, that’s not fair! Do you know what you just did? I’m sorry to say this to you, but that question is the rhetorical equivalent of putting dog-poop in a paper bag, lighting the bag on fire on JeffyB’s door-step, ringing the door-bell, and retreating to the bushes to watch the fun .

        You just know JeffyB is going to jump of in it, with both feet, while we giggle at him. Is that nice?

        And here’s a special version of “Ha-ha-hatikvah” for JeffyB!! Have a negila Jeffy! Have several!

        BTW, Marnie, am I correct in remembering that you have lived in Israel?

      • Mooser on February 18, 2015, 10:36 am

        “Regularly breaks or flaunts the law
        Constantly lies and deceives others
        Doesn’t feel remorse or guilt
        Has little regard for the safety of others
        Can be prone to fighting and aggressiveness
        Irresponsible, can’t meet financial obligations
        Is impulsive and doesn’t plan ahead”

        That’s a sickness? I thought that was how you could act when you are “normalized” and “legitimate”!

        Okay, it’s time to stop all my foolishness and tell the truth. I lived in Cal. for many years, it’s hell for a Jew! The food tastes like poison, and the portions are so small!

      • Mooser on February 18, 2015, 10:51 am

        “Well over 1/2 the restaurants are kosher. I have to carry a kippah at all times”

        You bring your own kippah to breakfast? I would have thought you had bigger fish to fry!

      • Mooser on February 18, 2015, 11:04 am

        ” know quite a bit of Jewish law the same way that I as a Jew know a lot about Christianity.”

        I see JeffyB has decided to take on Yonah’s role as an murderous comic. He’s trying to slip me an overdose of the best medicine!

        Yup, JeffyB, if your comments show anything, they show you have a nearly, well, Tolstoy-esque comprehension of the Christian message and beliefs. Shines out of every word, brother!

      • Mooser on February 18, 2015, 1:55 pm

        the difference between “flaunt” and “flout”.

        That’s easy. “Floutas” have cheese, and “flauntas” have meat and cheese. I love both, they are two of my favorite Mexican dishes.

      • Keith on February 18, 2015, 5:54 pm

        JEFF B- “Every sink in a restaurant has a cup for doing the netilat yadayim blessing. The bus schedule on Saturday is organized around when the 3rd star appears in the sky. For a women where ever you are on shabbat there will be candles to light. Well over 1/2 the restaurants are kosher. I have to carry a kippah at all times, in America twice a year needing one would be pushing it. etc…”

        Are you engaging in self-parody? If this be true, then I imagine that the “Jewish” Zionist Atheist founders of Israel must be rolling over in their graves! Except, of course, for those who were cremated, their ashes spread by the winds across the entire Middle East. The original Jews sans frontiers! (I put that in for Mooser)

  5. a blah chick on February 17, 2015, 11:05 am

    “almost 50% of those killed in Gaza” during Operation Protective Edge were “terrorist operatives”

    In fact I think the IDF’s official stats said the number was 51%. Great, even by their own distorted numbers almost half the people killed were not fighters or “operatives.”

    And how did they get those numbers anyway? I can’t recall where I saw it but one website had a breakdown of the age and sex of those killed. Since about half were men and boys of “prime fighter”age they just assumed they were fighters.

    And how do you get to be and terra “operative?” Send the family away and stay behind to guard your home when the bomb finds you.

  6. David Doppler on February 17, 2015, 11:26 am

    I think “ultimate truth” as used here has to do with who you identify as your group or tribe. It is considered by one’s own tribe to be heroic in many circumstances for a person of the tribe to surreptitiously strike a blow against an enemy tribe, under circumstances that would result in execution if caught or failed, e.g., all the “behind enemy lines” stories of heroism.

    Those of us who consider ourselves part of the global community (all humankind are created equal) give credence to norms of international law, including wartime law, which nonetheless recognize rights of opponents, especially their civilian populations. Apparently these people do not, and embrace those lessons from Deuteronomy that justify ethnic cleansing and genocide, so that “our side” can win over the other. I recall Glenn Beck at come point panting over those passages of Deuteronomy in pandering to this crowd.

    So it becomes a simple question of who is your tribe/community/crowd whose approval you most desire, are most prepared to dedicate your self to? For American Jews, Neocons and assorted right-wingers, that choice keeps getting starker.

    How US media journalists can stomach giving voice to people of such blatant racism and bigotry is beyond me, but one silver lining of Netanyahu’s drive toward apocalypse is that no matter how difficult it is to stomach it one day, it becomes ever more difficult the next, and will continue to escalate until Netanyahu and Likud are defeated. They have made abundantly clear that nothing else matters to them than the “strength of the Israeli leader’s spine,” possible code for those “heroes” in Deuteronomy who did not flinch from the worst of genocide. Unless defeated in the polls, they will require defeat in some other forum or battlefield, the sooner, the better.

  7. ckg on February 17, 2015, 12:47 pm

    Did Joan Rivers make an appearance at the awards gala? I’m sure she would look perfect dressed in mahogany from head to toe. (I stole that joke from Rivers. She actually said it about the late Whitney Houston.)

    • Steve Macklevore on February 17, 2015, 1:45 pm

      Thanks ckg.

      The article made me angry and miserable and then I read your comment and I really did laugh out loud.

      Thanks again!

      • ckg on February 17, 2015, 11:35 pm

        Thanks Steve.

  8. on February 17, 2015, 1:27 pm

    Warriors for the Ultimate Delusion.

  9. JeffB on February 18, 2015, 2:40 pm

    @ eljay

    There’s something seriously wrong with a religion that requires the existence of a religion-supremacist state in order for its adherents to avoid living an “almost undead existence” in their various homelands around the world.

    Yes there is something seriously wrong with a religion like that. There is nothing wrong with a national culture like that. Ergo…

    • eljay on February 18, 2015, 6:53 pm

      || JeffBeee: Yes there is something seriously wrong with a religion like that. There is nothing wrong with a national culture like that. Ergo… ||

      Judaism isn’t a “national culture”. Ergo…

      • JeffB on February 19, 2015, 8:19 am

        @eljay

        You are just repeating platitudes. If there is a nation who has it as their culture then it is a national culture. I get that you don’t like this because it violates your sense of how the universe should work. I may not like the gravitational constant but my opinion of it isn’t going to change anything.

      • eljay on February 21, 2015, 9:18 am

        || JeffBeee: You are just repeating platitudes. If there is a nation who has it as their culture then it is a national culture. ||

        What you’re saying is that every Jewish person – even if atheist – has the religion of Judaism in his life and, therefore, every Jewish person – even if atheist – requires the existence of a religion-supremacist state in order to avoid living an “almost undead existence” in whatever country in the world happens to be his homeland.

        So:
        – you’re showing your anti-Semitic colours again, this time by homogenizing all Jewish individuals into a single, monolithic, “Jewish State”-seeking group of people (a.k.a., “the Jews”); and
        – you’re confirming that Israel as a “Jewish State” is a religion-supremacist construct.

        Keep up the good work.

    • Marnie on February 19, 2015, 2:35 am

      “I have to carry a kippah at all times, in America twice a year needing one would be pushing it. etc… There are some real upsides to having your religion be the state religion. Especially a religion like Judaism which is a PIA to practice. ”

      Wow Mr. B you admitted to @eljay the affirmative when you said “yes there is something seriously wrong with a religion like that. There is nothing wrong with a national culture like that. Ergo…..”

      So basically you support the zionist state because it makes it easier for you to be a Jew? I guess, with the sirens and all, who you can marry, where you can live, what you can eat and when, etc.

      “Especially a religion like Judaism which is a PIA to practice. ” But we all know practice makes perfect Mr. B – isn’t that right? If it’s all laid out for you, where’s the challenge? I think it’s harder to be a Jew in the “state” than in America or anywhere else. In the “diaspora”, you have to make conscious decisions all of the time. In the “state” its all done for you (of course, only to Ashkenazi specs), which basically is reduced to “Judaism for Idiots” and when you don’t have to think about something, well, you get lazy, complacent and that’s dangerous.

      Judaism is not a pain in the ass.

      Zionism is.

      Judaism and Zionism are not the same thing.

      If Judaism is such a “PIA” Mr. B, I think numbers are dwindling in catholicism and since, according to you, you know so much about christianity…..

  10. Rob Roy on February 18, 2015, 3:00 pm

    Oh, heck. I think I was to be writing to JeffB instead of Marnie after all. Anyway………my comment was for anyone who thinks the Jewish people are “God’s chosen” and deserve the land they’ve taken.

  11. JeffB on February 22, 2015, 9:53 pm

    @Eljay

    <blockquoteL JeffBeee: You are just repeating platitudes. If there is a nation who has it as their culture then it is a national culture. ||

    What you’re saying is that every Jewish person – even if atheist – has the religion of Judaism in his life and, therefore, every Jewish person – even if atheist – requires the existence of a religion-supremacist state in order to avoid living an “almost undead existence” in whatever country in the world happens to be his homeland.

    No that’s not what I’m saying.

    I’m saying that the Israelis have a national culture. The state of Israel represents to fully represent that nation will be embedded in and reflective of that national culture. That national culture may also have a religion, the Israeli religion which is commonly called Judaism.

    For Zionism Judaism is not just a religion. Judaism is a national culture that has a religion. The same way there is a Navajo culture and a Navajo religion that is part of that culture. As an example of the distinction there is nothing particularly religiously Jewish about Israeli folk dancing, but it non the less part of Israeli Jewish culture.

    You just keep trying to minimize Judaism to make it nothing more than a religion.

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