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Netanyahu flips the bird to Obama — 2200 more settlement units!

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Just in time for his meeting with President Obama this morning, Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu has flipped the bird to the U.S. A fresh settlement approval by his government showed up in Haaretz today:

Israel moves to green light 2,200 new settlement units, recognizes outposts

Chaim Levinson’s article says that the decision was unusual. Note the presence of the Defense Minister:

Israel’s civilian planning committee for construction in the West Bank moved last week to green light some 2,200 new housing units within existing settlements and retroactively recognize two outposts, most likely in a bid to preempt legal attempts by Palestinians and rights groups to see the sites evacuated. The move is only preliminary and is still subject to changes before the new units break ground.

The Higher Planning Council of the Civil Administration agreed to advance a master plan for the Ma’aleh Michmash area east of Ramallah that will retroactively approve two outposts and add thousands of homes to the settlements in the region. The plan includes the settlements of Ma’aleh Michmash, Rimonim, Kochav Hashahar, Tel Zion and Psagot, and the area south of the settlement of Ofra.

The plan was originally submitted in 2014, and last month Defense Minister Moshe Ya’alon gave the green light for the council to discuss it. A hearing was held on October 21 and a decision was reached on November 3 and published on Thursday. Ya’alon’s adviser on settlement issues, Koby Eliraz, attended the council hearing, which is considered unusual.

Even J Street is upset:

Time for the Obama Administration to call these moves what they are: illegal

Shades of the 2010 announcement of 1600 new settlement units just as VP Joe Biden was arriving in Jerusalem. A major dis to the Obama administration, the Biden slap is recounted in a long wan article in the New York Times today that treats the Obama/Netanyahu disagreements as mere personality conflict the U.S. ought to get over. “Obama and Netanyahu: A Story of Slights and Crossed Signals.” The Biden insult? “Mr. Netanyahu assured him it was done without his knowledge.”

National security adviser Susan Rice’s contention that “Mr. Netanyahu did everything but ‘use the N-word’ to describe the president”? That gets explained away by Abe Foxman:

Mr. Foxman interpreted that as hyperbole not an accusation of racism.

Not one Palestinian is quoted in the article, but nine or ten Israelis and American Jewish stalwarts of the Israel lobby, Foxman, Malcolm Hoenlein, Dennis Ross, and Martin Indyk, all applying pressure on Obama to get over his own mistakes and his issues with Netanyahu. The Israel lobby is never addressed as a major force on Obama, because it is also the primary force behind the article itself. As in this tag-team sequence:

At the heart of the trouble, according to Dennis B. Ross, another former American special envoy, was a decision by Mr. Obama that he needed to establish distance from Israel to build credibility in the Arab world…

In an interview last week, Mr. Hoenlein described the Jewish leaders’ meeting with Mr. Obama…

Mr. Ross argues that distancing from Israel has never generated the Arab cooperation that presidents expect.

And there is this criticism of Obama’s avowal of Israel’s legitimacy that was first framed by David Frum and other neoconservatives, and stated angrily by the likes of Michael Oren.

The tension grew when Mr. Obama gave a speech in Cairo reaching out to the Muslim world but did not also visit Israel. While he urged Muslims to recognize Israel’s legitimacy, he seemed to justify it because of the Holocaust rather than centuries of Jewish roots in the region.

The Holocaust was clearly the political catalyst for the United Nations decision to create a Jewish state. The Times could at least have put this biblical criticism in the mouths of Zionists. But no: the Times is the mouthpiece of Zionists.

The Times clearly missed the memo from the Institute for Middle East Understanding offering interviews with many experts, Jewish and even some non-Jews! Mustafa Barghouthi, Yousef Munayyer, Gideon Levy, Diana Buttu, Rebecca Vilkomerson, et al. And some questions the press should ask the PM, including:

It’s clear that you don’t support the two-state solution or the creation of an independent Palestinian state. In fact, you’ve spent much of the past 25 years trying to destroy the two-state solution. What is your vision of the future if you’re not willing to allow Palestinians to have an independent state of their own or to grant them equal rights in a single state, and are you prepared to be known as the man who made permanent Israel’s apartheid rule over the Palestinians?

And while The Times is absolving Netanyahu of racism, Jewish Voice for Peace is reminding us of it. Rabbi Joseph Berman sent out this email on behalf of Jewish Voice for Peace, saying that Netanyahu stands “for war and racism” and:

Having lost over the Iran deal, he wants a consolation prize: billions more in military aid.

Talk about chutzpah! Repression of Palestinians in Israel, Jerusalem, and the West Bank is at an all time high, and Netanyahu wants the U.S. to give him even more weapons? Racism is the dominant force in Israeli political discourse, and Netanyahu wants our support to make things even worse?

If you’re as disgusted as I am, click here to call the White House and make your voice heard.

Let President Obama know he shouldn’t give aid to a country that commits collective punishment and violates international law on a daily basis. We’ve got easy-to-use software that will connect you directly to the White House — no dialing required.

Both J Street and JVP note that the left has never gotten a dividend for all its work for Obama on the Iran deal. Berman:

Conflict between President Obama and Netanyahu isn’t necessarily bad. Earlier this year, Netanyahu was the number one opponent of the Iran Deal. He whipped up fear and hatred, and tried to bully President Obama into turning away from diplomacy. But we stood tall, and fought for the deal in Congress – and we won.

Now we need President Obama to stand up to Netanyahu again.

At Tikkun, Rabbi Michael Lerner offers the cynical interpretation of Obama’s making nice with Netanyahu:

So why doesn’t Obama make the ending of the Occupation a condition for delivering these new weapons to Israel? The more cynical answer is that he is concerned to prevent losses to the Democratic Party in the next election that might come from some section of American Jews defecting toward Republicans who would certainly denounce such a demand. Others believe that some Democrats who supported the Iranian nuclear deal only did so once Obama promised these weapons to Israel, and they might join Republicans in undermining the deal should Obama stand up for an end to the Occupation.

Thanks to Max Blumenthal and Scott Roth.

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99 Responses

  1. Kay24
    Kay24
    November 9, 2015, 11:27 am

    I just watched the love fest between Obama and the man who has consistently put spokes in Obama’s wheel, and it was nauseating to see the lies being spewed, and the openly bias Obama showed for Israel, with no support at any level, for the Palestinians.

    This latest theft of land by Israel has become a bad habit, and this time no different.

    So why are we upping that aid, again?

    • Krauss
      Krauss
      November 9, 2015, 1:12 pm

      I’ve always viewed Obama as a creature of liberal Zionists. His entire political career was funded by them – and he admitted as much a few years ago when he talked to a room full of them when he half-joked that they were his “cabal”.

      Obama came at this issue with energy in his early years in part because of the new-found energy of J Street and the social forces behind its rise. He never cared for Palestinians, but tried to embrace a Laborite Zionism, something he bemoaned in his book when he talked about the necessity to move away from the “Likudnik interpretation”. He genuinely thought there was a difference, because his “liberal” Zionist friends kept insisting there was.

      Obama miscalculated. He didn’t understand the deep roots of the “liberal” Zionists’ racism. When the chips were down, they were no different from the Likudniks. We saw that with the Sodastream/West Bank affair. All the major “liberal” Zionist figures went to bat for settlements.

      And the NYT itself, the house organ of “liberal” Zionism, has been demonizing Palestinians nonstop for years now. It flirted with Obama’s attacks on Bibi in 2009-2011, but once it was clear that Netanyahu wasn’t going to fold, the NYT folded instead – into the communal fold.

      So Obama, who stood naked in the dark, threw the Palestinians under the bus because he was always a political animal who needed his Zionist base. Just like Clinton. The difference is that Clinton played fairly well with both sides, Obama just did it with one. Neither gives a shit about Palestinians and both embrace Jewish apartheid.

      Finally, I want to underline that Obama has an eye on the post-presidency. He understands that he can’t have a successful and lucrative post-WH career without being in the good graces of the “liberal” Zionist power structure. In the same way you can’t run for office in the Democratic party, which he understood all those years ago.

      That’s just how politics and the media looks like in the U.S. and Obama is willing to embrace Apartheid if that is the price for it.

      • annie
        annie
        November 9, 2015, 1:17 pm

        He never cared for Palestinians

        is this a personal theory/hunch?

      • Kay24
        Kay24
        November 9, 2015, 2:53 pm

        I guess we have different perspectives. I think Obama would like to have some kind of resolution during his term as President, but did not realize at the onset that his hands will be tied so much, the power of the zionist lobbies, and the control of the zionists over our nation.

        His anger will Netanyahu comes out of frustration too.

      • Keith
        Keith
        November 9, 2015, 4:40 pm

        KRAUSS- “Finally, I want to underline that Obama has an eye on the post-presidency. He understands that he can’t have a successful and lucrative post-WH career without being in the good graces of the “liberal” Zionist power structure.”

        I agree completely. Like Bill Clinton, Obama is basically a high-class hustler on the perpetual make.

      • Boomer
        Boomer
        November 9, 2015, 5:37 pm

        re Krauss, “Finally, I want to underline that Obama has an eye on the post-presidency. He understands that he can’t have a successful and lucrative post-WH career without being in the good graces of the “liberal” Zionist power structure. In the same way you can’t run for office in the Democratic party, which he understood all those years ago.”

        Perhaps he does think that way, but if so it hardly constitutes an excuse. It’s an indictment. It’s not as if doing the right thing would consign him and his family to a life of genteel poverty. Official compensation for retired presidents isn’t shabby, by the standards of most Americans: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_the_United_States#Post-presidency And even if the Zionists cut him off on the speaking circuit, there would still be ample opportunity to enrich himself, if that’s what he wants. Mrs. Clinton got an advance of $8 million for her memoirs as First Lady, after all, which was a mere token of what was to come:
        http://legalinsurrection.com/2014/06/2001-was-hillarys-year-of-great-fortune-not-of-being-dead-broke/ Even a small fraction of the Clintons’ haul would suffice to finance a life of luxury.

        Perhaps it is a generational thing, another sign that I’m getting old, but I remember that there was a time when many Americans admired former presidents such as Dwight Eisenhower and Jimmy Carter who lived a dignified life without seeking excessive wealth from plutocrats and special interests.

        As for possible fear of assassination, sometimes cited as an excuse for Obama, I don’t accept that as a legitimate excuse either. Of course, I don’t know if that is a factor in his support of Israel, but–if so–it is as unworthy in a President as excessive greed. In any event, though Presidents are targets, they can’t really predict who will attempt to kill them. One of the Kennedy brothers may have been killed by a conspiracy that involved elements in our society and/or Israel’s: I suspect that we simply don’t know the truth about that. But we do know that another Kennedy was killed by a man (probably not sane) who was disturbed by RFK’s statements of support for Israel while it was oppressing Palestinians.

      • lysias
        lysias
        November 9, 2015, 5:52 pm

        There turns out to be as much reason for believing that Sirhan Sirhan did not kill RFK as there is for believing that Oswald did not kill JFK. Robert F. Kennedy assassination conspiracy theories.

      • wondering jew
        wondering jew
        November 9, 2015, 7:39 pm

        No, Lysias, there is no similarity between JFK and RFK, one was shot by a rifle and one was shot by a pistol in a room where he was immediately tackled by security people. whatever questions exist regarding RFK and Sirhan Sirhan, they are nowhere near in similarity to questions about a rifle shot at a moving car. To say they are the same or even similar betrays your bias.

      • Boomer
        Boomer
        November 9, 2015, 7:42 pm

        lysias, re Sirhan. Yes, without being a student of the subject, I’m generally aware of some of the theories, but I didn’t really mean to go there. It’s my fault, I guess, for mentioning it. I did so only because some people, including some at this site, have alluded to reports that Mr. Obama has supposedly cited this concern as a reason for his caution. I would assume that the person who started that was doing so in an effort to defend Mr. Obama. I don’t assume that it started with him. In any event, it doesn’t cut much ice with me.

      • RoHa
        RoHa
        November 9, 2015, 10:53 pm

        lysias, you just don’t want to admit that an Arab had the shooting skills to make his bullets curve around RFK and hit him in the back, and to fire 14 bullets from an 8 shot magazine.

      • RoHa
        RoHa
        November 9, 2015, 10:59 pm

        “Like Bill Clinton, Obama is basically a high-class hustler on the perpetual make.”

        Isn’t that a constitutional requirement for the presidency, like being native-born and over thirty-five?

      • November 10, 2015, 7:38 am

        You are not being fair towards Obama with all these pro-Zionist or Liberal Zionist accusations. Mr. Obama is not Putin, he barely controls the senate and he can only be face of American foreign policy, never a master of it. The American-Israeli relationships are forged upon similar founding myths, similar social structure and power sharing systems, and also the strong participation of pro-Israeli Jews in America’s political system. All these are facts that goes beyond any one President’s control or influence, hence I don’t see why Obama is being blamed for the current turmoil in Palestine.

        What exactly can he do? He is not some sort of all powerful leader that can play the benevolent dictator role, not in the present USA. The entire American state establishment needs reform, and that doesn’t come as easy as spending one day every four years voting for some guy in a suit.

        BDS is gaining momentum rapidly and all efforts to halt it is proving to be futile at this point, public awareness towards the Israeli history and current actions is also on the rise, Islamophobia is being fought against by more and more people each day, racism and White Supremacy is constantly being pulled to the surface and uprooted by all sections of American society, so why does Obama need to do anything? Time is going to set everything right, he only needs to care for himself and his family at this point of his life.

      • eljay
        eljay
        November 10, 2015, 8:53 am

        || a4tech: You are not being fair towards Obama with all these pro-Zionist or Liberal Zionist accusations. Mr. Obama is not Putin, he barely controls the senate and he can only be face of American foreign policy, never a master of it. … What exactly can he do? … ||

        He can speak out in defence of human rights and international law, and he can advocate justice, accountability and equality.

      • lysias
        lysias
        November 10, 2015, 10:28 am

        RFK was shot from behind at very close range. Sirhan Sirhan was in front of RFK and too far away.

        At least 13 shots were fired. Sirhan’s weapon only held 8 bullets.

        Sirhan showed all the signs of someone who had been hypnotized.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 10, 2015, 12:51 pm

        “Time is going to set everything right”

        Let me guess? “Time is going to set everything right” and all is for the best in this best of all possible worlds?
        Yup, I’m sticking with my two-word description of “a4tech’s” drivel.

      • lysias
        lysias
        November 10, 2015, 2:10 pm

        If Sirhan was just the patsy chosen for the RFK assassination, as Oswald had been for the JFK assassination (as I very much suspect), it’s interesting that in 1963 they chose someone they could portray as a Communist, and in 1968 they chose a Palestinian.

  2. eljay
    eljay
    November 9, 2015, 11:34 am

    Good ol’ Barry O. The Zio-supremacist donkey says “Suck!” and he says “How hard?” (Yes, he can!)

    The tension grew when Mr. Obama gave a speech in Cairo reaching out to the Muslim world but did not also visit Israel. While he urged Muslims to recognize Israel’s legitimacy, he seemed to justify it because of the Holocaust rather than centuries of Jewish roots in the region.

    Neither the Holocaust nor “centuries of Jewish roots in the region” justifies the existence of either Israel or a supremacist “Jewish State” in Palestine.

  3. Kay24
    Kay24
    November 9, 2015, 11:55 am

    Surely our Commander In Chief should have mentioned that any illegal settlement is detrimental to that peace Bibi lied about? They must think people are naive to believe this BS.

  4. pabelmont
    pabelmont
    November 9, 2015, 12:03 pm

    And, in a non-primary election, would I vote for Obama again? Or for the newer Clinton? Gasp! What a parade of horribles! I guess that in NYS, I could dare to vote Green.

  5. Chu
    Chu
    November 9, 2015, 12:11 pm

    Question: is the president of the US really toothless against settlements?
    Does he have to bite his tongue and endure this humiliation from our little
    apartheid loving Israelite brothers & sisters?

    Will house & senate democrats not support Obama if he withheld Israel
    weapons and loan guarantees today, all the pork they need to survive?

    • eljay
      eljay
      November 9, 2015, 12:19 pm

      || Chu: Question: is the president of the US really toothless … ||

      Zio-supremacists prefer foreign leaders to be toothless. It ensures that they can’t bite while, ummm, making obeisance to the “Jewish State” and its King.

      • Chu
        Chu
        November 9, 2015, 1:43 pm

        Yes. They really seem to stack the deck on their behalf.
        Also a reason why they never debate Zionism and Israel
        in the public square. They’ll lose…
        Only candidates can say ‘I support Israel’ because their
        political coffers depends on it. Even Jim Webb in the
        last democrat debate, was kissing Israel ass to get some
        green for his underfunded campaign.

    • Kay24
      Kay24
      November 9, 2015, 12:46 pm

      It certainly seems the President must turn the other cheek when the PM of said apartheid nation visits our WH. It is baffling as to why the President keeps putting up with this shet, especially when his term will be ending soon, and Obama does not have to hold back.

      • RockyMissouri
        RockyMissouri
        November 10, 2015, 10:37 am

        I AGREE. Baffling..!!

    • Kay24
      Kay24
      November 9, 2015, 4:04 pm

      The Israeli lobbies extract all teeth as soon as they are elected, put on a leash, and makes sure he does not bark at them. Today we saw the master and the leashed dog in the WH. The dog wagged his tail at appropriate times, and the master will leave a happy man.

    • Boomer
      Boomer
      November 9, 2015, 5:44 pm

      re Chu: “Question: is the president of the US really toothless against settlements?”

      No, he is not. Congress has a lot of power to constrain him, but he can do much purely within his executive authority. For example, he could recognize Palestine, he could refrain from using our veto at the UN, etc. And, he could use the bully pulpit to go over the heads of the Zionist Media and bought politicians . . . if he wanted to.

  6. ivri
    ivri
    November 9, 2015, 12:25 pm

    This is peanuts within the whole equation – what `s adding 2200 units means in the world we live in? It is not a quid pro quo for something as big as the Iran deal, which is a strategic issue – just a side issue within a much, much broader picture. Real big things are happening in the region – ones that worry Obama not less than Israel and no doubt have made him rethink visions and hopes he may have had. So what this meeting is really about getting back to dealing with fundamentals. The rather childish – indeed staged – public “quarrel” between them is over and serious matters, where the US and Israel see eye to eye, are back on the agenda.
    This will thus be a somber discussion – dealing with the state of a world and a region where matters are getting progressively scarier. A situation where shared fundamental perspectives trump made-for-public shows and there is no energy and space left for trivialities.

    • annie
      annie
      November 9, 2015, 1:00 pm

      the expansion of the settlements is not a triviality, adding 2200 units means adding at least another 10,000 settlers. it’s the very reason 2 states becomes impossible. you know this. obama/netanyahu/everyone knows this. so don’t act like we’re all stupid.

    • Chu
      Chu
      November 9, 2015, 1:23 pm

      ‘peanuts’ is the successful strategy for Israel. Make small steps so it doesn’t upset the international community regarding their apartheid vision that reclaims ‘land’ from 2000 years ago (what a sham!). That’s why the occupation has lasted for decades. It’s an occupier’s strategy that only steals a little at a time, therefore less people turn their heads. But, the downside is that those watching see the 50+ year occupier is a thief and conniver. So which is better for the long term?

    • diasp0ra
      diasp0ra
      November 9, 2015, 1:26 pm

      @Ivri

      “This is peanuts within the whole equation – what `s adding 2200 units means in the world we live in?”

      Really? You want to play it that way? You want to go with that logic?

      You can explain anything away like that. “What’s the death of a few million in a world of billions, it’s peanuts within the whole equation”.

      “Why is global warming an issue, what’s the destruction of only one planet within the whole universal equation”.

      How childish.

      Tell me, Ivri, if the Holocaust had been committed over 50 years, would it have been more acceptable to you? Is slow genocide different than rapid genocide? Is slow colonization and ethnic cleansing better than rapid ones?

    • amigo
      amigo
      November 9, 2015, 1:38 pm

      “just a side issue within a much, much broader picture.” ivri.

      Listen , you zionist cretin, someone else having their home stolen or demolished to allow some thief to squat there is not a side issue for them.

      There are now some “700,000 ” of your trivilialities squatting on someone else,s peanuts.

      You are one sick immoral excise for a human.

      Go , drop your zio feces on J, post.

      • Kay24
        Kay24
        November 9, 2015, 2:57 pm

        Lol Amigo, you certainly are very descriptive. :))

      • amigo
        amigo
        November 9, 2015, 3:19 pm

        “Lol Amigo, you certainly are very descriptive. :))”. Kay 24

        ivri,s dismissal of the feelings of those dispossessed and oppressed by his goi war criminals and framing them as “side effects and trivilities ” is just a step too far.

        The man,s trivialization of the suffering of others disgusts me to the core as does he.

      • Kay24
        Kay24
        November 9, 2015, 4:07 pm

        I don’t know if you noticed but these so called cretins can be very sadistic at times, and love to see those they hate suffer in every way they can make them. It must be in the water.

        Imagine the howls of outrage had the situation been reversed and this “trivial amount of illegal settlements were building in Tel Aviv”, Ivri would have needed meds to calm down.

    • ivri
      ivri
      November 9, 2015, 1:54 pm

      Try for a moment to get unchained from slogans. There are now 10 millions of displaced people in Syria who are on the way to other countries. Russia and Iran are there. Iraq and Libya are on the brink. And you want Obama, the President of the US, to deal seriously with a plan to add a small neighborhood in the West-Bank? Doesn`t it show that your obsession with Israel has gone ludicrous more than just a bit?

      • amigo
        amigo
        November 9, 2015, 3:30 pm

        Hey Ivri, Israel has been “adding small neighbourhoods ” for 60 + years.

        Do you think we are all suffering from short memories around here.

        “And you want Obama, the President of the US, to deal seriously with a plan to add a small neighborhood in the West-Bank? Doesn`t it show that your obsession with Israel has gone ludicrous more than just a bit?”. ivri.

        Unlike you , my obsession is with ensuring equal rights for every human being –even you , whose obsession is denying it —-except for Jews.

        Thanks for your post..I will be sure to use it as evidence of just how evil zionists are.Keep em coming , they make very convincing weapons with which to enroll folks to the BDS fraternity.

      • bryan
        bryan
        November 10, 2015, 2:46 am

        Ivri – are you really claiming that the reason that Netanyahu has come to Washington is so that he can discuss with the President Obama ways of resolving the Syrian refugee crisis? Or approaches to bring more stability to Iraq and Libya? Surely its “your obsession” that is becoming increasingly “ludicrous”?

        According to the “liberal Zionist” media he has come to mend fences and rebuild bridges that he destroyed in his vain and self-damaging attempt to sabotage the Iran settlement. These sources are saying he has come to Washington to repair the bipartisan relationship and to renegotiate America’s dole to Israel. Thus extending settlements is a major issue: Obama officially and half-heartedly opposes the occupation and the settlement project, so before the meeting takes place Netanyahu has to put his foot down and remind everyone who is boss in this relationship (regarding internal affairs as he regards them, even if he does not control all aspects of American Foreign policy). And the message is very clear to those (yourself obviously excluded) who have any honesty and common sense: the message is “we will continue with our “piece by piece” process: you forget your “peace process” and just remember in the heat of an election frenzy, you need me more than I need you, though I also need an extra two billion a year.” Thus 2,200 additional units are not at all irrelevant.

      • Marnie
        Marnie
        November 10, 2015, 9:00 am

        @ivri

        If anyone here attempted to trivialize any or all of the holocaust, you’d scream bloody murder. Yet you and others casually describe “only 2200” as it is nothing at all and hasn’t been occurring over and over and over again for 70 years. And now the added fuck you Obama with Netanyahu’s new recognition and legitimizing of previous “outposts”. So any self-righteous prince and princess can plant themselves on a hill and claim it as “eretz yisrael” and no consequences. You’ve already been asked, but I assume you like your holocausts to be slow and steady because all at once just looks so bad and the MSM can’t ignore that as much.

    • talknic
      talknic
      November 9, 2015, 3:17 pm

      @ ivri “This is peanuts within the whole equation – what `s adding 2200 units means in the world we live in?”

      My, the Zionist Colonization program sure does attract some of the sickest of the sickos

      Each one is another war crime ivri. By your sick criteria Jewish deaths were peanuts in the Holocaust.

      • Kris
        Kris
        November 9, 2015, 3:57 pm

        @talknic: “By your sick criteria Jewish deaths were peanuts in the Holocaust.”

        Yup, hardly worth mentioning.

        World War II was the deadliest military conflict in history in absolute terms of total dead.[1] Over 60 million people were killed, which was about 3% of the 1940 world population (est. 2.3 billion[2]). The tables below give a detailed country-by-country count of human losses.

        World War II fatality statistics vary, with estimates of total dead ranging from 50 million to more than 80 million.[3] The higher figure of over 80 million includes deaths from war-related disease and famine. Civilians killed totalled 50 to 55 million, including 19 to 28 million from war-related disease and famine. Total military dead: from 21 to 25 million, including deaths in captivity of about 5 million prisoners of war.

        Recent historical scholarship has shed new light on the topic of Second World War casualties. Research in Russia since the collapse of the Soviet Union has caused a revision of estimates of Soviet war dead.[4] According to Russian government figures USSR losses within postwar borders now stand at 26.6 million.[5][6] In August 2009 the Polish Institute of National Remembrance (IPN) researchers estimated Poland’s dead at between 5.6 and 5.8 million.[7] The historian Rüdiger Overmans of the German Armed Forces Military History Research Office published a study in 2000 that estimated German military dead and missing at 5.3 million.[8] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties

  7. amigo
    amigo
    November 9, 2015, 12:33 pm

    “Mr. Ross argues that distancing from Israel has never generated the Arab cooperation that presidents expect.”

    Well , cozying up to Israel and kissing Netanyahu,s posterior , didn,t get that zionist co operation , that Presidents expect.

    AU CONTRAIRE.

    No matter how folks try to re invent ways , (Parallel States , efforts to promote economic conditions for Palestinians , removal of roadblocks , blah blah blah.) to get the ever life giving support to the goal of the so called greater Israel ,back on track , . and if , as Israel plans , the Greater Israel is realised , there will still be 4 to 5 million Palestinians to deal with.

    Obama should ask Nietanyahu , loud and clear , “What do you intend to do with these Arab citizens of your greater Israel.Do you intend to give them the vote and treat them as equal citizens and if not , then , what??. Please have the report on my desk by the 31 st of December , 2015.

    • eljay
      eljay
      November 9, 2015, 12:47 pm

      “Mr. Ross argues that distancing from Israel has never generated the Arab cooperation that presidents expect.”

      Yeah, and distancing themselves from the rapist hasn’t generated the victim co-operation that the cops expect. She keeps screaming at them to uphold the law, arrest the rapist and set her free. Ungrateful b*tch.

    • Kay24
      Kay24
      November 9, 2015, 12:57 pm

      I came away from that press meeting on tv feeling that indeed Obama kissed that huge posterior, and has forgiven all Nutty’s sins. Diplomacy is one thing, but pretending that Netanyahu is an honest and sincere ally, is unbelievable. What else can we expect from a leader of a nation that seems jerked around, and controlled by, this little apartheid nation?

      It was nauseating to watch this show.

      • inbound39
        inbound39
        November 9, 2015, 1:25 pm

        Nothing less than massive street protests the likes of the Vietnam War marches by the American People will break this sick bond with Israel. Americans need to turn out in droves and demand that American money be kept for Americans and not for terrorists like Netanyahu and his criminal state.

  8. Kris
    Kris
    November 9, 2015, 12:39 pm

    The article by Rabbi Michael Lerner, “Obama and Netanyahu’s “Make Nice” Meeting: Bad for Peace, Bad for Israel,” is up on huffingtonpost:
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rabbi-michael-lerner/obama-and-netanyahus-make_b_8509528.html

    From the article:

    Yet we know that bullies do not have a long shelf-life, which is why we Jews who want Israel to survive would appreciate a US President who could use all the tools the most powerful country in the world has at its disposal to reverse Israeli policy before it creates a global consensus that Israel should not be permitted to exist–something we do not want to see happen!

    • Mooser
      Mooser
      November 9, 2015, 12:48 pm

      Shorter Rabbi Lerner: ‘The US must bail out Israel, using any and every resource and expect nothing in return. You owe us’

      • inbound39
        inbound39
        November 9, 2015, 1:34 pm

        It is not rocket science….America is trillions of dollars in debt. America has given Israel trillions in aid. What Israel is owed is a size 12 boot up the backside and told to take a hike….then Americas debt issue will be solved.

    • Mooser
      Mooser
      November 9, 2015, 1:01 pm

      “before it creates a global consensus that Israel should not be permitted to exist”

      Gee, Rabbi Lerner, what happened to our invincible Zionist power? Now you tell us Israel actually exists on the world’s sufferance? Sure wish that had been made clear earlier.

    • Kris
      Kris
      November 9, 2015, 4:17 pm

      I wonder if Rabbi Lerner will have any thoughts on this: http://www.maannews.com/Content.aspx?id=768736

      Horrifying video of the brutal interrogation of a 13-year-old child by Israeli Jews:

  9. jimby
    jimby
    November 9, 2015, 1:37 pm

    I think the ball is in the court of American Jews. Until they stand and protest, let their friends and neighbors know and let the politicos know, nothing will ever change. I know this is not easy. They will lose many friends and be shunned and maybe even lose career opportunities. It is their responsibility. I am sick of Jews who complain that the Allies didn’t stop the death trains to the camps but are perfectly fine with a 48 year slow strangulation of the indigenous population.

  10. ckg
    ckg
    November 9, 2015, 1:53 pm

    Although Ya’alon has said he knows who committed the Duma murderers, he announced today that there will be no indictments.

    • amigo
      amigo
      November 9, 2015, 2:17 pm

      “Though the guilty parties have not been formally arrested and indicted, the defense minister pointed out that there have not been any serious attacks by Jewish extremists against Palestinians in the months since the Dawabsha murders, other than small-scale vandalism and petty violence.”

      Maybe , just maybe , Yalon , you should apply some of the , apparently ” successful methods you use on suspected Palestinian , “extremists” .

      While there may not have been “serious ” attacks against Palestinians by Jewish extremists , your brave IOF criminals have been busy in the last month murdering some 75 Palestinians and injuring some 3000.Do the extremists you are protecting know something that might embarrass you and your most moral army.

    • ckg
      ckg
      November 9, 2015, 2:31 pm

      Sept 1 State Department Briefing:

      QUESTION: The – and the flip side of that, it’s been 31 days since Israeli terrorist settlers attacked the village of Duma, killing a Palestinian baby and his father and mother and so on.

      MR TONER: Yes, and his father, yeah. Mother, yeah.

      QUESTION: And at the time, you expressed confidence that Israel has the wherewithal to pursue the terrorist perpetrators and bring them to justice, yet we don’t see this kind of raiding of the settlement to bring the perpetrators to justice. Are you still satisfied that Israel is doing all it can to apprehend the terrorist suspects in the settlement?

      MR TONER: Well, again, we – and we spoke very clearly at the time and continue to condemn that kind of violence, that kind of activity, and call on for a full investigation and to bring the perpetrators to justice. Now, we know and we speak to this often that a full investigation takes time. The prime minister, the government was very clear in expressing their outrage about this violence and the need to address it, so let’s wait and let this process play out.

      QUESTION: The point being that when the Israelis express their outrage going into Jenin to apprehend someone, but we have not seen anything similar to that in the settlement where the settlers have suspected – are suspected to come from.

      MR TONER: You’re – I’m sorry. You’re talking – say you have not seen this expressed —

      QUESTION: No, I’m saying no, we have not. We have not seen anything.

      MR TONER: I just haven’t – I am not aware of the incidents.

      QUESTION: Are you in touch with the Israelis on these things? Are you coordinating with them? I mean, you have a great deal of law enforcement and security coordinations with them. Are you coordinating with them in fact operationally or otherwise to bring these suspects to justice?

      MR TONER: You’re talking about in the attacks in the Palestinian – yeah.

      QUESTION: Yes. Yeah, those suspected – right, yes.

      MR TONER: I don’t know if we’re actually cooperating with them on this case, but we have every confidence that they’re able to carry out this investigation.

      QUESTION: You are? So —

      MR TONER: Let’s let the process play out.

      QUESTION: So you have every confidence, then, that the Israelis can bring these perpetrators to justice?

      MR TONER: Yes.

      • Kay24
        Kay24
        November 9, 2015, 3:00 pm

        The question should now be “Why did the President today only mention the attacks on Israeli civilians, and fail to mention the many more lives lost by Palestinian civilians.”

        These State Dept. mouth pieces, just tell you want they want the zionists want you to hear, and hope you will not follow through later on. This is becoming unbelievable.

      • RoHa
        RoHa
        November 9, 2015, 6:37 pm

        Comedy gold.

    • a blah chick
      a blah chick
      November 9, 2015, 2:35 pm

      ckg, that article you linked to was just filled with milky goodness.

      “Ya’alon said the military has resorted to jailing suspects without charge — under a practice known as administrative detention — in lieu of solid evidence against them.
      “Once we discovered which group was responsible for the incident, and we realized that we were unable to bring them to justice, we opted for house arrests and administrative detentions,” he said…”

      But didn’t he claim earlier that they couldn’t bring them to justice because it would hurt their “sources?” Was he lying then or now?

      “I hope that soon we will solve [the case] completely,” Ya’alon added.” ???????.

      “The group responsible is made up of Jewish fanatics who want a religious kingdom and regime based on Jewish law,” Ya’alon told reporters. (So their views are in line with the Israeli government then.)

      “Though the guilty parties have not been formally arrested and indicted, the defense minister pointed out that there have not been any serious attacks by Jewish extremists against Palestinians in the months since the Dawabsha murders, other than small-scale vandalism and petty violence.”

      That’s right no SERIOUS attacks, just over 70 dead, hundreds wounded, countless houses destroyed, thousands under arrest, innocent people gunned down because they “look” suspicious. Yeah, everything’s just peachy.

      Move along folks, nothing to see here.

  11. ckg
    ckg
    November 9, 2015, 2:30 pm
  12. Kay24
    Kay24
    November 9, 2015, 5:07 pm

    Nutty referred to Israel/US “shared destiny”. Hmm…wonder what he meant. Is Israel going to be the 51st state of the US, or does he refer to the attacks on Muslim nations, hegemony, interference in other nations, toppling of governments/dictators, assassinations of scientists, and other foreign officials standing in their way, and the numerous joint ventures between both nations? We are not giving them all those billions for nothing, now are we?

    • inbound39
      inbound39
      November 9, 2015, 10:33 pm

      The way things are going Kay ,Zionists are running true to their mantra. The Goyim are dispensable. If America goes broke and crumbles helping Israel then it does not matter because they are not a Jewish Nation. They are there solely to accommodate the Jewish State of Israel. That is where, precisely, the American people need to wake up…..Israel and Netanyahu see Americans as dispensable….not friends….just an asset to plunder like any other.

      • Kay24
        Kay24
        November 10, 2015, 7:20 am

        The zionists show the world that 3 cards can hold power over the whole world – the holocaust card, the anti-semitism card, and the victim card. Played well, they can control even the world’s biggest superpower.

      • November 10, 2015, 8:02 am

        Kay24, you have made atleast 20 comments suggesting rather strongly that Zionists are in firm control of America and it’s political system (who otherwise will continue to be a global beacon of fairness and justice).

        Could you please, for the rest of the readers here who are naive to this unjust swindling of each and every American’s political representation by the Zionist, provide some proof or peer-reviewed articles in support of your allegations?

        JVP (Jewish Voice for Peace), along with Mondoweiss’ own Phil Weiss would strongly disagree with your whitewashing of American’s role in global conflicts by putting all the blame of these “Zionists”. At the time being, JVP is by-far the foremost organization championing for Palestininan rights in America and denouncing Israel’s violence and racism towards the Palestinians. TThey rightly acknowledge that America has it own version of Zionism and Jewish Supremacy and naturally it’s own version of Palestinian terrorists. Namely these are white supremacy and non-white peoples, respectively. It is through this similarity that America and Israel was able to forge such a deep interwoven relationship with each other as the ruling class for both countries are cut from the same cloth. Israel’s demise ( as a political establishment, not physically) will be connected to America’s demise ( end of white supremacy, establishment of native political rule, reparation for black minorities).

      • Kay24
        Kay24
        November 10, 2015, 11:16 am

        Ah the “I just woke up and don’t know why zionists are picked on” comment”. The rest of the readers are not as “naive” as you, but then I know many of them are not ignorant of facts, and their comments show they are up to date with what is happening in the US.

        I am going to humor you and give you some reading to do, and youtube videos to watch, perhaps that may keep you busy, but remember you must open your mind and let the information seep in, or else you will end up still ignorant of facts.

        Sharon to Peres: “We Control America”
        Congressional Pandering to Israel proves him Right

        http://www.mediamonitors.net/khodr49.html

        Watch your dear PM boast of how he can “move America” to the direction he wants
        and that he does not care what the world says. It also shows the liar of Tel Aviv giving
        false evidence to Congress about Saddam Hussein, urging them to go to war, and that it
        gets easier to attack other nations afterwards. If this is not exerting pressure/influence
        in our political arena, I don’t know what is.

        The Israel Lobby: A Partial List

        Note these committees, think tanks, lobbies, journalists, exerting their influence, and doing the bidding of the zionists, putting the interest of Israel over the country some of them were born in, and trying to squeeze all it can from the US, whether it is aid, weapons, or policies to benefit Israel. I challenge you to find any other ethnic group who have strong ties to an alien nation, so influential in the US.

        http://www.ifamericansknew.org/us_ints/introlobby.html

        Lets not overlook the media:

        “”The Jews are so dominant,” writes Stein, “I had to scour the trades to come up with six Gentiles in high positions at entertainment companies.” “But lo and behold,” Stein says, “even one of that six, AMC President Charles Collier, turned out to be a Jew!”

        “As a proud Jew,” says Joel Stein, “I want America to know of our accomplishment. Yes, we control Hollywood.”

        ADL’s Foxman Admits Jewish Control

        Stein says he then called Abe Foxman, Chairman of the Jewish ADL, to ask him, why don’t more Jews just come out and boast at this great accomplishment? Foxman responded by admitting that yes, it’s true that most of the top execs “happen to be Jewish.” In fact, Foxman told Stein, “all eight major film studios are run by men who happen to be Jewish.”

        Ben Stein (no relation to Joel), the well-known Jewish actor, economic commentator and writer, when asked “Do Jews run Hollywood?” stared blankly at the questioner, then retorted, “You bet they do-and what of it?” Shahar Ilan, writing in haaretz.com, the internet division of Israel’s top daily newspaper, commented, “The Jews do control the American media. This is very clear, and claiming otherwise is an insult to common knowledge.”

        That would explain why the media is so biased, never mentions the word “occupation: or “illegal settlements” and why Americans are being told the side that is the occupier, massacres civilians by the thousands, have a brutal military, plus the most sophisticated weapons, is the victims.

        http://www.rense.com/general85/ownh.htm

        Let’s not forget dear Congress, who recently insulted their own President to allow a self invited war monger to come into congress and attack the Presidents policies regarding Iran.
        Now that is what I call a whole lot of influence and a PM from an alien nation “moving America” to the direction he wanted.

        http://maplight.org/us-congress/interest/J5100/view/all

        Now you are most probably going to dismiss all this, like the hasbara does, but I think there is too much information out there to disprove your naive thinking.
        Hope that enlightened you. It seems you are counting and reading my comments, which I guess must be hard for you to keep up. Keep trying anyway. :))

      • November 10, 2015, 11:51 am

        Once I saw the quotes “we control America”, “we can move them” and the likes, I already decided you are nothing but a delusional anti-semite in deep denial towards your own prejudices and failure as a human to achieve a fulfilling life. Hence you harp about the “Zionists” in the same spirit old white racists rant about those “thugs” and “immigrants” when they really mean “n*ggers” and “brown people”. You including a rense.com article pretty much sealed it in revealing your real motivations.

        I say this in good will, racism towards Jews and Judaism will never be OK in any situation, be it when discussing Israeli violence or USA political climate. You are a racist that will never understand true justice will only come through understanding and solidarity between all parties in the conflict, Jews, Arabs, Israelis, Americans, Palestinians and everyone in between, not hate.

        […]

      • Kris
        Kris
        November 10, 2015, 12:47 pm

        a4tech,

        Kay24 provided you with actual sources , demonstrating that it was Zionist leaders who expressed the ideas that you find so repugnant. And yet you continue to cry antisemitism!

        Why?

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 10, 2015, 12:58 pm

        “Israel’s demise ( as a political establishment, not physically) will be connected to America’s demise ( end of white supremacy, establishment of native political rule, reparation for black minorities).

        That’s how you would describe “America’s demise?” Sounds like a rebirth to me.

        But of course, you are the guy who said:

        Hitler opposed slavery, imperialism and neocolonialism that a vast majority of readers here directly or indirectly benefitted from. “a4tech”- See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/profile/a4tech?keyword=Hitler#sthash.T3WIli6Y.dpuf

        Want to explain that?

      • Chu
        Chu
        November 10, 2015, 1:02 pm

        a4tech:

        Kay24 presents all these quotes (which you asked for) where Israel leaders say they (wish to!) control America [USA] and you can’t even accept what she presented as reality? When she provides the evidence you call her an anti-semite. Does burying you head in the sand about Israel’s machinations on American Mid East foreign Policy bother you?

        And you say your a Muslim? Sure you are. Why lie about being a Muslim, when it’s so obvious you’re a Zionist? So many hasbaraists take this tact, misrepresenting that they are someone else, when it becomes so obvious they are not.

        a4tech [first post]: (“As a Muslim, even I can sense the latent anti-semitism in Allison’s (Weir) so called campaign for justice for Palestinians, however subtle it may be.”)

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 10, 2015, 1:04 pm

        “Once I saw the quotes “we control America”, “we can move them” and the likes, I already decided you are nothing but a delusional anti-semite in deep denial towards your own prejudices and failure as a human to achieve a fulfilling life.”

        So Zionists can’t be faulted for saying these things, but “Kay24” is an antisemite for hearing them? And at even greater fault for reporting them?

        I think “a4tech” is the new champ at painting himself into a corner by refilling the brush from the Porta-Potti. Good job, “A4tech!”

      • Kay24
        Kay24
        November 10, 2015, 1:20 pm

        Thank you Kris. Yeah a4tech, WHY?

        To your:

        “Could you please, for the rest of the readers here who are naive to this unjust swindling of each and every American’s political representation by the Zionist, provide some proof or peer-reviewed articles in support of your allegations?”

        I have provided you with sufficient links to show that the zionists are EXTREMELY INFLUENTIAL in the US, (zionist leaders have boasted about it), and at ALL levels be it congress, media, think tanks, journalists, those making important decision regarding our foreign policies (which supposedly sometimes is written by AIPAC), and yet you do not have the mental capacity to take the truth. WHY? Does the truth hurt, or are you trying to deflect my response to your comment by ATTACKING ME WITH INSULTS? You guys can dish out, but have no spine to take it.

        As I predicted you have dismissed my sources, and if you have the time from your busy schedule, perhaps you can check out the sources, and their data. I know it is HARD to defend the indefensible, but cheer up, you have revealed yourself for who you truly are – a hasbrat who when cannot respond with facts, resort to personal insult, which frankly does not bother me in the least, because I have dealt with some nasty has brats before, and they are empty vessel regurgitating propaganda fed to them, showing they are unable to to think clearly, and cannot come up with credible proof to respond to facts.

        See what I mean? Only insults nothing of substance:

        Typical hasbara response –

        “I already decided you are nothing but a delusional anti-semite in deep denial towards your own prejudices and failure as a human to achieve a fulfilling life.”

        That stolen water from the Palestinians must be powerful, by reading my comments you have been able to fathom out exactly what I have achieved in my life, and that I am a failure. Wow!

        Anything said about Jews and Judaism is racism, but criticizing Israel or condemning it for human rights abuses is neither racism nor anti-Semitic. That is an old worn card and not working here. As long as Israel keeps perpetrating crimes, killing, stealing, and whatever, it’s supporters will always hear criticism and you better get used to that.

      • eljay
        eljay
        November 10, 2015, 1:25 pm

        || a4tech: … You are a racist that will never understand true justice will only come through understanding and solidarity between all parties in the conflict, Jews, Arabs, Israelis, Americans, Palestinians and everyone in between, not hate. ||

        What a load of bullshit. There’s no obligation for the rape victim to demonstrate understanding of, solidarity with, love for or even tolerance of her rapist captor in order for true justice to be realized.

        If you want true justice in I-P (and elsewhere), uphold (international) laws, prosecute (war) criminals, hold the guilty accountable for their actions and ensure that all parties honour their obligations.

        The shit you’re shovelling is Zio-supremacist “peace”, not true justice.

      • Kay24
        Kay24
        November 10, 2015, 1:29 pm

        Chu, you are right, I doubt he is a Muslim. I have been dealing with these has brats long enough to see the similarities in the language, and how they respond when given facts.

        I doubt any “Muslim” will end up calling me “anti-Semitic”. It would be interesting to meet this so called Muslim who seem to support and defend zionists, and get so worked up when I mentioned that the zionists have so much influence in the US. :))

      • November 10, 2015, 1:42 pm

        Being Muslim does not make me dumb to opportunists using the IP conflict as an easy outlet for their racism.

        First thing first, Zionists do not control America. They work WITH America, because American Zionists (i.e. White Christian Americans) are just as cunning, two-faced, power-mad emotionally deficient sociopaths as their Israeli counterparts. If you disagree with this, then you are either stupid (OK, not your fault), naive (OK, also not your fault) or worst, willfully ignorant because it benefits you. American Zionist does everything Israeli Zionists does, but on a global scale. They too bribe, kill, assassinate and force countries and peoples to act against their interest through threat of violence. And though it may surprise you, they have been doing so for a lot longer than the Israeli Zionists to a whole lot more group of peoples.

        Secondly, I’ve already believed that this particular person, Kay24 is a anti-semite after first reading a few of his comments. I do not believe he or she has any genuine good-will for the Palestinians, which is OK because chances are she is not one so she has little obligations to be so. But the more Kay24 comments, the more certain I become of the carefully shielded antisemitism. But, at the end of day, only God and the person himself will know for sure the content of his hearts. So Kay24, are you one?

        Third, in particular to this post, I disagree with most of the sources simply because they are blatantly biased to project a certain point of view. This reminds me too much of supposedly unbiased logical white people who instantly come up with a stack-full of crime statistics when discussing issues pertaining to black social movements such as the Baltimore Riots and Ferguson Uprising. Btw, rense.com is widely recognized as a racist, antisemitic website that is comparable to Stormfront, another racist website for white supremacists.

      • annie
        annie
        November 10, 2015, 2:07 pm

        i agree rense is not a consistently reliable source. if you can’t find other sources to back up the info best to not post it.

      • November 10, 2015, 2:40 pm

        Eljay, honestly what you wrote is as dumb as as it well-intentioned. Of course the war criminals should be punished, not the oppressed. Which rational adult would dispute this?

        The problem is how do you go about punishing “Zionists” or “oppressors”? This may sound silly but once it comes to the task of actually doing it, how would you even go about it? Do you just round up everyone who worked for the government and put them in jail and throw away the key? How about the financiers who live anonymous lives in New York or Switzerland? How about the multitudes of other sovereign stakeholders that also directly and indirectly contributed to the crime? Even a simple robbery case can be a rife with judicial errors and mistrials, let alone a nation–state enterprise involving hundred of thousands of independent conspirators playing roles of various magnitudes. You are being too childish with your demands of swift punishment and upholding of the law.

        The true villain in this conflict does not pledge loyalty to Israel , America or Palestine, to Zionism, Islam, Christianity or Communism. They are those who seek power over others and will do anything to gain it. These people like Netanyahu are born every minute, and it’s not their fault for being as God made them. But how did someone like Netanyahu gets to be in the place he is now? Who’s fault is it and how do you propose their punishment?

      • Chu
        Chu
        November 10, 2015, 2:55 pm

        A4tech:

        Sorry, it’s difficult to believe that you are a Muslim with that meager response. Lying on your first comment about being Muslim is a red flag for Hasbara (there have been plenty of this style hasbaraists on this site over the years).

        Then you go on to say that all American Zionists are:

        “American Zionists are just as cunning, two-faced, power-mad emotionally deficient sociopaths as their Israeli counterparts.”

        -I think you need to work on your shtick, because you’re all over the place.

        Last, why openly make some prejudicial claims about white people? You’re the one sounding like the racist with your slander of white people. If I’m a Greek, am I white? Are Italians white people?

      • November 10, 2015, 3:17 pm

        Chu, please I need to know, why does my religious choice matter at all in any of these discussions? You are more than welcome to completely disregard my claims of identity and assign me one of your own liking, I honestly don’t care at all.

        Secondly, the term “American Zionist” is an apt descriptor of the Americans who still believe in America is a white country for white people, and an American is by default white person unless he or she is something-American. These people are a major part of the ruling class of America, just like Zionists rule Israel. So I fail to see your confusion towards this particular point.

        Also what do mean by slandering white people? There are people with white skin, and people who are politically white. I have no issues with the former, but the latter are a dangerous group of idiots that needs to be taken seriously as a threat to others well-being. No one cares if you’re Greek or Italian, most people have more than enough things on their plate already without dealing with your identity issues.

      • eljay
        eljay
        November 10, 2015, 3:18 pm

        || a4tech: … American Zionists (i.e. White Christian Americans) … ||

        …and Jewish Americans. It’s strange that you’d exclude them from the category of American Zionists, given that many (most?) Jewish Americans are Zionists. Are they not American enough to qualify?

      • Teapot
        Teapot
        November 10, 2015, 3:18 pm

        “As a Muslim, even I can sense the latent anti-semitism in Allison’s (Weir) so called campaign for justice for Palestinians, however subtle it may be.”

        a4tech,

        As a fellow Muslim, I have a question for you. The “as a Muslim, even I…” in your first comment seems to imply that all Muslims are inherently antisemitic and have a real hard time spotting this particular brand of racism. Is that what you believe? Should I start crying “Islamophobia!” now?

        If you’re a Muslim, I am Santa Claus.

      • MHughes976
        MHughes976
        November 10, 2015, 5:03 pm

        On the whole, Kay, I think we should ignore accusations of anti-Semitism unless it is clear that they are made in good faith or that they make a good point, both of which are very rare.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 10, 2015, 5:21 pm

        “I already decided you are nothing but a delusional anti-semite in deep denial towards your own prejudices and failure as a human to achieve a fulfilling life.

        BTW, that is the very definition of “ad hominem” “You” and “failure as a human”.

        Not the ideas, not the writing, not a statement “Kay24” has made, but “You” “as a human”.

      • RoHa
        RoHa
        November 10, 2015, 5:50 pm

        Chu, I think you mean “so many hasbaraists take this tack”.

        Tact is rare among Zionists.

      • eljay
        eljay
        November 10, 2015, 6:27 pm

        || a4tech: Eljay, honestly what you wrote is as dumb as as it well-intentioned. Of course the war criminals should be punished, not the oppressed. Which rational adult would dispute this? … ||

        Nice deflection away from your bullshit assertion that “true justice will only come through understanding and solidarity between all parties in the conflict”, an assertion that says nothing about punishment or accountability.

        || … The problem is how do you go about punishing “Zionists” or “oppressors”? … ||

        Arrest them, try them in a court of law and if they’re found guilty hold them accountable for their actions.

        || … You are being too childish with your demands of swift punishment and upholding of the law. … ||

        You’re being too stupid misreading what I said. I don’t expect “swift punishment”, I expect justice, accountability and equality.

        And did you really just suggest that it is “too childish” to expect that laws be upheld? Seriously? I don’t know if that’s part of your “Islamic” upbringing (the real Muslims I know would never suggest such a thing), but it definitely sounds like something you would have picked up in Zio-supremacist class.

        || … The true villain in this conflict … ||

        …are, at a minimum, the people who plan, execute, enable and support (war) crimes. They must be held accountable for their actions.

        Justice, accountability and equality, universally and consistently applied. Every Zio-supremacist loathes the idea.

      • Kay24
        Kay24
        November 10, 2015, 6:59 pm

        MHughes976, Good advice. We know where the accusations come from, and what it intends to do. We should ignore these efforts to deflect and not waste valuable time addressing it.

      • echinococcus
        echinococcus
        November 10, 2015, 8:43 pm

        Kay,

        Taking seriously that 4tech operative is a serious mistake, especially since the at least four different sources of propaganda grants and stipends are publicly known. It’s a major mistake to call it “ha-sebara” or whatever the euphemistic name instead of Propaganda, as unapologetically and as openly acknowledged as it had been by Goebbels’ organization in a public recognition of the low general IQ.
        That one is so stupid himself, no matter the shimmering surface sophistry, that he can’t even see that the fact that the owners of the country in the US and its hangers-on have a direct interest in the Zionist entity’s survival does not exclude the fact that Zionists have everybody by the balls, simply by the use of money and systematic infiltration of all possible organisms including Palestine solidarity.
        Anyway, your three mechanisms of dominance, or cards, are almost insignificant next to the sheer power of money.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 10, 2015, 10:31 pm

        “The problem is how do you go about punishing “Zionists” or “oppressors”?”

        The same way it is always done. A complaint, an investigation, indictment, trials, judgement, execution of judgement. Many of the terms won’t be too long, and only a few could possibly be capital. And of course, equal rights means Palestinians have equal access to the courts, to file suits.

      • eljay
        eljay
        November 11, 2015, 7:39 am

        || a4tech: … The problem is how do you go about punishing “Zionists” or “oppressors”? … ||

        || Mooser: The same way it is always done. A complaint, an investigation, indictment, trials, judgement, execution of judgement. … ||

        Mooser, you must be some sort of legal genius to be able to resolve so quickly the incredibly complex problem that was taxing a4tech’s mental faculties.

        What remains to be seen is whether your elegant solution is considered by a4tech to be “too childish” because it involves upholding laws.

      • Chu
        Chu
        November 11, 2015, 9:56 am

        A4Tech quote :‘the term “American Zionist” is an apt descriptor of the Americans who still believe in America is a white country for white people, and an American is by default white person unless he or she is something-American. These people are a major part of the ruling class of America, just like Zionists rule Israel. ‘

        Is this is some sort of creative revisionism taken on by someone who pretends they’re a Muslim. I know you came to MW via the Weir/JVP debate and use JVP to buttress your arguments,so what chapter of JVP do you come from? It seems that they should better educate you about the misinformation you write above about.

      • November 11, 2015, 11:04 am

        Mooser, Eljay and their ilks can see dust a mile away but can see the elephant in front of them. If zionism can be as easily defeated by prosecuting and jailing a bunch of people, why is the proto-Zionist entity, the USA still standing after 400 years?

        You can see how the Palestinians would literally rather die than to lose their right to their homeland, their language and culture and autonomy in their dominion. You people may think this is some sort of strangle, noble savage like struggle, but its not. It is not unique to Palestinians, every indigenous groups would feel the same way in the same circumstances.

        It is for that reason, I refuse to accept any solidarity attempts for the Palestinians by people who also in a way Zionists themselves, but towards Mexicans, Native Americans and Blacks. If you think Palestinians need your support and solidarity from thousands of mile away, while still having a strong grip on their homeland, culture and language, what do you think you should do for the proto-Palestinians i.e. blacks, natives who have been undergoing suffering in orders of magnitude worst for 500 years. Your government (democrat or republican) is still refusing to give back stolen land, stolen culture and stolen language right now in 2015. White supremacy permeates all forms of power structure in the USA, and is imposing itself on powerless groups right in front of your doorstep. No black, native, mexican or hawaiian person want to be ruled over by a white entity, speaking a white language, living a white culture over their own political system, language and culture. Yet they are still being forced to do so in 2015, which is just as oppressive as any of Israeli state actions.

        Stop trying to feed orphans in faraway lands when there are multitudes more to feed in your own backyard. It is as simple as that.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 11, 2015, 11:26 am

        “Mooser, you must be some sort of legal genius…”

        Oh, you know it “eljay”. Once I was sentenced to be shot at sunrise. So I went to bed the night before without setting my alarm. Slept right through it.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 11, 2015, 11:28 am

        “Stop trying to feed…”

        Stop trying to feed us a ration of shit, “a4tech”

      • eljay
        eljay
        November 11, 2015, 11:32 am

        || a4tech: Mooser, Eljay and their ilks can see dust a mile away but can see the elephant in front of them. If zionism can be as easily defeated by prosecuting and jailing a bunch of people, why is the proto-Zionist entity, the USA still standing after 400 years? … ||

        With this verbose bit of purely Zio-supremacist blather – using the existence of the U.S. to justify Israel’s past and on-going (war) crimes – you dispel any pretense of being a Muslim. (Not that your claim was particularly convincing to begin with.)

        Speaking of being blind, how is it that you, a Zio-supremacist, haven’t noticed that Nazi Germany is no longer around? Did you not get the memo about:
        – Nazism being defeated;
        – people being held accountable to this very day; and
        – Germany making reparations to this very day?

        Perhaps it’s time to administer to Zio-supremacist Israel some of the same medicine that cured Germany of its ills.

        I trust you’ll agree. I’d hate to see you defend Nazi Germany.

      • YoniFalic
        YoniFalic
        November 11, 2015, 11:49 am

        A4Tech argues that in the US we must start by dealing with proto-Zionist crimes here. It is a standard argument that apologists for Eastern European invader crimes in Palestine use to deflect attention. German Nazis also used the same argument (the US practices Jim Crow) to deflect from crimes of the German Nazi government.

        I am not sure how the argument applies to me as a former Israeli and as a former Jew, who despises everything about Israel and about the fake Judaism that Zionism has created. (To tell the truth I am not so crazy about pre-Zionist Judaism, which strikes me as either silly or repugnant.)

        In any case, we have to draw a line in the sand and start the fight against evil somewhere.

        A good place to start is rejecting categorically

        1) in the 20th and 21st century any ideology based in 19th century genocidal white racist European colonialism that destroys or expels a native population in order to move in racist white European settlers (like my family) and favored non-Europeans to become a servile class in the colonial settler society and

        2) any state founded after Auschwitz in a post-Auschwitz genocide.

        Because the State of Israel has become an intrinsic component of US white racist ideology, terminating the State of Israel cannot help be a good and necessary thing for the USA.

        Moreover, if we attack the State of Israel as an entity violating articles 2, 3, and 4 of the International Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, white racist international genocide-boosting moneybags like Adelson or Saban become international criminals, who should be sent to the ICC for trial, conviction, and punishment. Then all the assets of such criminals can be seized to compensate their victims. Removing such scum from the US political landscape may help stem the tide of political subversion and corruption in the USA — also a good thing.

        The fight for America starts with targeting the State of Israel. The point should be obvious.

      • Chu
        Chu
        November 11, 2015, 12:07 pm

        A4Tech,

        Your argument, attempted by many others, doesn’t hold true. Jimmy Johnson made this argument last year, and Citizen had a good reply to him. See below.
        But, if you don’t buy this argument maybe you can contact Jimmy and you both can try to find ways where you can hold the US accountable, so Israel can be somehow redeemed of its current criminal behavior that breaks international established law today. Best of luck.

        Citizen
         July 18, 2014, 7:27 am
        @ Jimmy Johnson
        And it’s dishonest of you not to mention this is no longer the 19th Century, and since then we’ve had two world wars resulting in the Nuremberg and Toyko trials and their Geneva progeny. Your argument would reinstate the cave man clan wars, would mean nothing good has come from so many million deaths in the 20th Century. The UN may be corrupt, and international laws and institutions may be weak and selective via enforcement, but they do exist. Israel in this sense is a regressive state operating outside and against existing international law, including all of it Israel itself has signed on to. The US is not helping its own increasingly bad reputation by rubber-stamping Israel, funding it, and immunizing it from accountability to international law.
        – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2014/07/what-would-you-do#sthash.56mrWNvN.dpuf

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 11, 2015, 12:25 pm

        “I trust you’ll agree. I’d hate to see you defend Nazi Germany.”

        “Eljay” he already has defended Nazi Germany:

        “Hitler opposed slavery, imperialism and neocolonialism that a vast majority of readers here directly or indirectly benefitted from. “a4tech”

        Does “a4tech” care to explain that? I’d sure like to know about this Hitler who “opposed slavery, imperialism and neocolonialism”!

      • MHughes976
        MHughes976
        November 11, 2015, 1:26 pm

        I’m from Wallasey, which c.500 was quite likely something of a Gaza Strip, with my English ancestors pushing their way into and beyond the old Roman fortress of Chester and confining my Welsh ancestors to a coastal enclave. No doubt there were raids and retaliations with arrows and firebrands. No doubt various leaders claimed legitimacy under Roman law or from divine mandate. There were no formal Geneva Conventions but people then knew what we know now, since that is part of human nature, about dispossession and cruelty.
        England and Wales are still in part what the events of that time made them, so an Israeli might say it was all the same thing as what has happened more recently in Palestine. Yes, there is an analogy and I would not place much reliance on the argument that bad things were acceptable then. I don’t really think they were and I look on the international law of today as more codifying than transforming our moral obligations.
        We do have a primary obligation to ensure that there is no inequality of rights surviving from those days and no new expression of similar inequalities with new beneficiaries and victims. To a great extent we have met this obligation. Everyone is enfranchised. Of course we still have serious problems in race relations and we must work on these. We also have an obligation to call on the same things to be done in Palestine and for the outrageous situation of disposession, confinement and disfranchisement by power exerciseing sovereignty, to be brought to an end.
        The lessons of our history do not impel us away from concern with things been done elsewhere to our wicked applause but to become involved with them.

      • eljay
        eljay
        November 11, 2015, 3:07 pm

        || Mooser: “Eljay” he already has defended Nazi Germany … Does “a4tech” care to explain that? I’d sure like to know about this Hitler who “opposed slavery, imperialism and neocolonialism”! ||

        Haven’t you heard? Hitler was actually a really great guy until the Grand Mufti turned him into an evil man.

      • RoHa
        RoHa
        November 11, 2015, 5:49 pm

        “19th century genocidal white racist European colonialism”

        White Europeans weren’t the only ones doing that sort of thing. The Japanese followed suit.

      • November 14, 2015, 2:34 am

        Yonifalic,

        Yes I definitely agree that fighting Israel is part of fighting US imperialism and racism. What I don’t agree with is fighting Israel exclusively using Zionists as some sort of mythical super-villains, without acknowledging their connection with other oppressive regimes currently active, such as those in Western Europe, America and their allies. Zionism is a fruit from the tree of White Supremacy. Without actively uprooting the tree, it is a pointless struggle for justice and fairness.

        I am for liberation of every oppressed group including Palestininans, African-Americans, native Americans and “illegal” Mexicans (who are more indigenous to America than the invading European-Americans and their progeny). This cannot happen without fully understanding that all oppression are connected, and intersectionality must be championed in any fight against oppresion, here in America or in Palestine.

  13. Kay24
    Kay24
    November 9, 2015, 6:47 pm

    Michelle Bachman wants Jews to convert to Christianity, after all “Jesus is coming soon”.

    We have our share of religious nuts, too. They are simply amazing!

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/michele-bachmann-jews-convert-christianity-article-1.2427858

    • Citizen
      Citizen
      November 10, 2015, 8:20 am

      She wants to share the rapture. She went to Christian schools and colleges, universities. She remains ignorant that Judaism is agnostic, when not atheistic about pie-in=the-sky; more traditional is the Jewish view any Jewish “heaven” lies right here on earth. (Nazis called this “the Jewish earth-centered soul.” Jewish Establishment won’t inform her because she always supports the state of Israel’s agenda, right or wrong.

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