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Israeli police shoot two scissors-wielding Palestinian teenage girls, killing one

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Israeli police in Jerusalem shot two Palestinian teenage girls, killing one and injuring the other, after they attacked a 70-year old Palestinian man with scissors, mistaking him for an Israeli, according to Israeli police.

CCTV footage of the shooting begins with Israeli police chasing the two Palestinian teens, who police say are related. One officer then fires multiple shots at the 16-year as she backed up against a wall out of frame. A second security officer topples the 14-year old with a plastic chair. Once she is on the ground he shoots her.

Police said the unidentified Palestinian man was lightly injured in the head and hand.

Scissors used by a Palestinian teenager in an attack Monday morning in Jerusalem. (Photo: Israeli Police)

Scissors allegedly used by a Palestinian teenager in an attack Monday morning in Jerusalem. (Photo: Israeli Police)

The attack and subsequent shootings took place on Jaffa Street in central Jerusalem, a main shopping boulevard that connects East and West Jerusalem.

Today’s incident follows three separate attacks by Palestinians on Israelis yesterday, in which all three alleged attackers were killed. During one of the attacks in the West Bank settlement of Gush Etzion a Palestinian stabbed and killed a 20-year old Israeli woman. The Gush Etzion municipality announced today that Palestinians will no longer be permitted entry into the settlement, though a number of Palestinians are employed there.

Since October 1, 2015 at least 94 Palestinians have been killed by Israeli forces and settlers and Palestinians killed 17 Israelis in attacks, amid a wave of violence that Israeli police say shows no signs of decreasing.

Allison Deger
About Allison Deger

Allison Deger is the Assistant Editor of Mondoweiss.net. Follow her on twitter at @allissoncd.

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64 Responses

  1. Palikari
    Palikari on November 23, 2015, 11:27 am

    That’s what happens when you stab innocent civilians with the aim of killing them. The security forces will neutralize you.

    What did they expect would happen?

    • eljay
      eljay on November 23, 2015, 11:56 am

      || Palikari: That’s what happens when you stab innocent civilians with the aim of killing them. The security forces will neutralize you. What did they expect would happen? ||

      So, just to be clear:
      – Non-Jewish police are under no obligation to attempt to disable and arrest any scissors-wielding Jewish teenage girls.
      – They are entitled to assassinate them on the spot.
      – You would consider this acceptable and in no way anti-Semitic.

      Is that about right?

    • Emory Riddle
      Emory Riddle on November 23, 2015, 12:01 pm

      I would expect them to be arrested.

      Why do you expect the police to kill teen-age girls who they have subdued and who are armed only with scissors?

      • Jackdaw
        Jackdaw on November 26, 2015, 4:10 am

        @Emory

        “I would expect them to be arrested.”

        How do you arrest someone who is trying to stab you?

      • Maximus Decimus Meridius
        Maximus Decimus Meridius on November 27, 2015, 5:29 am

        “How do you arrest someone who is trying to stab you? ”

        If you’re an armed, supposedly highly trained (aren’t we always hearing that about Israeli ‘security’ forces?) policeman, and the would-be stabber is a teenage girl armed only with scissors, I would say you could arrest them quite easily. At the very worst, you could shoot them somewhere unlikely to cause lethal injuries, ie the foot or leg.

        Amazing that Start Up Nation can’t figure out this sort of stuff.

        And if you’re telling me that you belive this girl would have been shot dead had she been Jewish, then you’re lying.

      • RoHa
        RoHa on November 27, 2015, 7:37 am

        “How do you arrest someone who is trying to stab you?”

        Depends on how they are trying to stab. A downward swing or a straight thrust can be dealt with by kote gaeshi or go kyo. But there are other techniques for trickier ways of stabbing.

        Google “you tube knife disarm” and you will see a long list of videos showing various methods from various martial arts. Systema, Ninjutsu, Gracie, Judo … Oh, look! Krav Maga knife disarms. Now where do they teach Krav Maga, again?

        But, as MDM points out, if you don’t feel up to one of those techniques, you can shoot them in the leg, if you’ve got a gun. Israeli police have guns.

      • Mooser
        Mooser on November 27, 2015, 3:38 pm

        “But there are other techniques for trickier ways of stabbing.”

        Any kind of ballistic clothing or pads will certainly deflect a knife thrust. I assume Israeli security goons have those?

      • talknic
        talknic on November 27, 2015, 8:26 pm

        Mooser “Any kind of ballistic clothing or pads will certainly deflect a knife thrust. I assume Israeli security goons have those?”

        Yes. But do they know how to use them?

      • Mooser
        Mooser on November 27, 2015, 10:47 pm

        “Yes. But do they know how to use them?”

        I think Israel shunts decisions about the day-to-day running of the occupation to the lowest level possible. How does a country formulate policy, doctrine and train their forces in illegal occupation-and-colonization-assistance?

    • amigo
      amigo on November 23, 2015, 12:22 pm

      “What did they expect would happen?” ziokari

      The question should be , What do you expect “should” happen.

      Pretend the assailant is Jewish and you might , just might be able to come up with the answer.

      Btw , neutralising someone does not mean murdering them. But I forgot , we are dealing with a hate filled zionist war crimes apologist with not much in his future , or his past for that matter.

      Sad little wretch.

      • wondering jew
        wondering jew on November 23, 2015, 1:06 pm

        It certainly is important in any analysis of the current intifada to give the context of the occupation (or to go further back to the Nakba) but especially the last few years (particularly since the war against Gaza of 2008 and the election of Netanyahu in 2009).

        But in fact to the Jewish people living in Israel or the West Bank they view their situation without granting excuses to the context and in fact the situation is intolerable and the context only helps to give it history rather than to describe the effect that it has on the Israeli population. (Granted that people in mondoweiss comments feel that Israelis are not deserving of normalcy, but certainly normalcy is what every human feels is their just deserts.)

        I do not approve of the killing of stabbers once they have been disarmed, but to pretend that this situation is somehow normal as the commenters here seem to be indicating, is totally off base. The lawlessness involved with killing a would be killer after he/she is no longer a threat is something that should be emphasized, but certainly let us admit that this is no normal situation.

      • John O
        John O on November 23, 2015, 2:26 pm

        @yonah

        “normalcy”

        The situation in which Israelis, especially those who choose to live in the occupied West Bank, is not normalcy . It is so far from normalcy that people are willing to die to oppose it.

      • tree
        tree on November 23, 2015, 2:32 pm

        Pretend the assailant is Jewish and you might , just might be able to come up with the answer.– See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2015/11/scissors-wielding-palestinian#comment-157605

        You don’t have to pretend in order to know the answer.
        An ultra-Orthodox Jew stabbed 6 people at a gay pride event in late July of this year. One of his victims died a few days later. He was subdued without being shot and was arrested, as I would expect a normal police force to do. He posed a much bigger threat than those teenage girls did, and had a history of attacking gay people with knives. None of that mattered. The big difference perceived by the Israeli police is that he was Jewish and the teenage girls were Palestinian. Typical institutional racism and Palikari condones it.

        http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.668796

      • amigo
        amigo on November 23, 2015, 3:00 pm

        “I do not approve of the killing of stabbers once they have been disarmed, but to pretend that this situation is somehow normal as the commenters here seem to be indicating, is totally off base. ” Yonah

        Your so right it is not normal.

        600,000 illegal squatters.
        450 Palestinian villages destroyed.
        Thousands of Palestinians murdered.
        Children tortured and jailed.
        Tens of thousands of Palestinian homes razed.

        Your dead right it is not normal and you think the people for whom this was done or who took part in it (most squatters ) have a right to feel normal.

        Get real.Fix the cause and change the effect.,Simple really , for those who think normally.

      • eljay
        eljay on November 23, 2015, 3:16 pm

        || yonah fredman: … It certainly is important in any analysis of the current intifada to give the context of the occupation (or to go further back to the Nakba) … But in fact to the Jewish people living in Israel or the West Bank they view their situation without granting excuses to the context and in fact the situation is intolerable and the context only helps to give it history rather than to describe the effect that it has on the Israeli population. … to pretend that this situation is somehow normal … is totally off base. ||

        – We could examine the (war) criminal’s past and on-going (war) crimes, but that’s just “context” and “history”.
        – What really matters is that the (war) criminal finds intolerable the blowback he is experiencing.
        – And, so, he lashes out.
        – To pretend that this situation is somehow normal is totally off base.
        – But we shouldn’t expect the (war) criminal to stop committing (war) crimes.

      • can of worms
        can of worms on November 23, 2015, 8:25 pm

        @ “certainly normalcy is what every human feels is their just desert”

        A Zionist asks for nothing more than normalcy, a sense of quiet and ease, and even more, a place to relieve himself and be relieved, where “he can just wallow and rut and let himself go in a softness, a receptive darkness” (aye, “as woolly as the hair on his own forbidden genitals”) — because – “out and down in the colonies, life can be indulged, life and sensuality in all its forms, with no harm done to the Metropolis, nothing to soil those [temples and] noble thoughts” since “the silences down here are vast enough to absorb all behavior, no matter how dirty, how animal it gets” — Pynchon.

      • Marnie
        Marnie on November 24, 2015, 3:22 am

        “I do not approve of the killing of stabbers once they have been disarmed, but to pretend that this situation is somehow normal as the commenters here seem to be indicating, is totally off base.”

        That’s an interesting point of view and thankfully your first point (up to the “, but”) I agree with. I wholeheartedly disagree that some of the commenters seem to be indicating the situation is normal, unless you’re referring to the comments from the icon with the sunglasses, Dabakr and the new trolls on the block.

        I believe it’s more honest to say that the zionist state has been pretending their existence, their ideology and their actions are normal and everyone who challenges them are antisemites. The zionists are clearly the people who are reality challenged.

    • YoniFalic
      YoniFalic on November 23, 2015, 1:21 pm

      I left Israel, renounced Israeli citizenship, abandoned Jewish identity, which I consider crap, precisely because I concluded I would not be an innocent civilian even if I had not served in Operation Cast Lead, in which I killed innocent men, women, and children.

      • DaBakr
        DaBakr on November 23, 2015, 9:47 pm

        If your story can be believed you should be congratulated for doing Israel and Israelis a very big favor. Thank you.

      • YoniFalic
        YoniFalic on November 24, 2015, 4:12 am

        Yes, it was a big favor when we shot unarmed women and men waving white flags along with their children. DaBakr has the mentality of a mass murderer. Hitler believed he was doing the world a favor. Never again — right?

        “Jewish” chekists and commissars probably felt exactly the same. DaBakr is nothing new in “Jewish” history.

        http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3342999,00.html

      • amigo
        amigo on November 24, 2015, 10:56 am

        “If your story can be believed you should be congratulated for doing Israel and Israelis a very big favor. Thank you.” duh-bakr

        Indeed Yoni is doing Israel a favour but not for the reasons you think.

      • Mooser
        Mooser on November 24, 2015, 11:40 am

        “If your story can be believed you should be congratulated for doing Israel and Israelis a very big favor.”

        “Dabakr” you must be right. Isn’t it only logical that the more people leave Israel, the more powerful, populous and bigger it gets!

        And there’s that much more Israel for “Dabakr”!

    • bryan
      bryan on November 23, 2015, 2:14 pm

      Palikari – what the hell is wrong with disarming them, arresting them, and bringing them before a court (a juvenile civil court) which is what would happen anywhere in the civilised world. They would have the advantage of having a psychiatric assessment and a lawyer, rather than simply being gunned down in the street, as appears to be the the norm in third world rogue states. What country are you living in?

      • Mooser
        Mooser on November 23, 2015, 3:28 pm

        ” what the hell is wrong with disarming them, arresting them, and bringing them before a court (a juvenile civil court) which is what would happen anywhere in the civilised world.”

        If I am not mistaken, the entire occupation is run pretty much on an ad hoc basis. A system of irresponsibility is used.

      • Chu
        Chu on November 24, 2015, 11:33 am

        What country are you living in?
        Its name is Israel -it’s not of the east or the west and their modus operandi today seems to operate on whatever they can get away with and still get support from their corrupted US patron and the zionillionaires that underwrite this corrupt nation. But I am sure inside their bubble they see all the great things that they are accomplishing, only a few decades more of criminal occupation and things will be just dandy for the start up nation. We all must have patience for the great things to come…

    • Boo
      Boo on November 25, 2015, 4:18 pm

      Didn’t expect to see the Gestapo shooting a girl who was lying flat on the pavement. That dude is careening down the rails on a hell-bound train.

  2. Blownaway
    Blownaway on November 23, 2015, 11:35 am

    So sad and disgusting. They were clearly subdued and executed by cowards with guns. I don’t condone what they did because it’s so futile but then again I can’t imagine the pain they live with that compels them to effectively commit suicide

  3. eljay
    eljay on November 23, 2015, 11:50 am

    Attacking someone with scissors is an act of injustice for which the perpetrator – if s/he has not been assassinated – must be held accountable.

    Summarily executing a scissors-wielding teenage girl is an act of injustice (and cowardice) for which the perpetrator must be held accountable (and shamed).

    • Herchel
      Herchel on November 23, 2015, 2:00 pm

      Trying to kill a 70 year old man with scissors = act of injustice

      Shooting someone dead while they are actively swinging metal scissors at a 70 year old man in a clear attempt to kill him (all captured on video) = summary execution by cowards.

      (Do you even remember the last time you were able to exercise rational thought?)

      Yes, the Israeli security should have demonstrated as much bravery as the now dead would-be killer who targeted an elderly man.

      • eljay
        eljay on November 23, 2015, 2:17 pm

        || Herchel: Trying to kill a 70 year old man with scissors = act of injustice … ||

        Yup. Are you suggesting it’s something other than an act of injustice?

        || … Shooting someone dead while they are actively swinging metal scissors at a 70 year old man in a clear attempt to kill him (all captured on video) = summary execution by cowards. ||

        Yup. The reports say the teenage girls ran and were shot. Shooting fleeing teenage girls is cowardly and amounts to execution. It sure as sh*t ain’t justice.

        || … (Do you even remember the last time you were able to exercise rational thought?) … ||

        Yup. More recently that you, evidently.

        || … Yes, the Israeli security should have demonstrated as much bravery as the now dead would-be killer who targeted an elderly man. ||

        Yup. Well-armed Israeli security forces should have been at least as brave as teenage girls. But they weren’t. :-(

      • John O
        John O on November 23, 2015, 2:30 pm

        @Herchel

        It’s nothing to do with bravery. It’s about having laws – you know, the 10 commandments, the Napoleonic Code and suchlike. Israel is descending into anarchy, with the rule of law breaking down.

      • Marnie
        Marnie on November 24, 2015, 1:07 am

        What I can’t get over after watching the video is the palpable fear these grown ass men have of 2 teenage girls, even after they have been shot and as they lay dying. These 2 girls, thanks to the state of Israel, have nothing to lose because people like yourself and the other trolls here do not see them as human beings. Then you weep and wail because of the obvious consequences of 70 years of occupation.

        Very funny blog post on Arutz Sheva – I never realized it but its apparently an Israeli version of “Mad Magazine”.

        Where have All The Arabs Gone?

        By Batya Medad

        11/21/2015, 7:11 PM

        There was a time when Jews and Arabs shopped together in perfect harmony in Rami Levy and Yafiz, Sha’ar Binyamin. I’m not making this up. I’ve been working in Yafiz, Sha’ar Binyamin for almost five years.

        Not only did the locals Arabs shop, but their visitors would take pictures of each other with the Hebrew signs in the background very happily, just like tourists do all over the world. Going to Sha’ar Binyamin to shop for Arab tourists was like when I go to outlet malls and stores in the states.

        For the past few months there have been almost no Arab shoppers. Arab employees show up, because they do not want to risk losing their jobs. But we no longer see Arabs wheeling carts loaded with food, water, toilet paper etc, and even those Arabs who used to shop by us on a regular basis telling us that they can’t find such good children’s clothes in their shops haven’t been in for a long time.

        There have been rumors that our former customers are afraid. Some say they are afraid of us, Israelis, but a friend who spoke to one said that the story is worse. You may not be all that surprised to hear that the Arab ( PA-Palestinian Authority) authorities have threatened Arabs who shop in Jewish stores. There are even roadblocks and inspections of cars that are suspected of coming from Jewish commercial areas. If merchandise from Jewish stores is found, it’s confiscated/stolen by the inspectors. So that, apparently is the reason even our formerly best customers no longer shop with us.

        That’s a perfect example of being a Palestinian in the zionist state. You’re damned if you do and damned if you don’t. The Jews build walls to keep you out, bomb the shit out of Gaza every 2 years, arrest and detain 6-year-olds and thousands of teenagers and young adults, demolish their homes, kill your people on an average of 1 every 3 days (that’s an old statistic, am afraid to see the latest)……………….THEN YOU BITCH BECAUSE WE WON’T SPEND OUR MONEY WHERE WE ARE NOT ALLOWED TO LIVE LIKE HUMAN BEINGS.

        PS – I try to get a feel of what other American Jews think and always have to take a hot shower afterwards to wash off the slime. I get the same covered in slime vibe reading the posts of the trolls here, but thankfully there’s better moderation.

      • RoHa
        RoHa on November 24, 2015, 2:35 am

        “Shooting someone dead while they are actively swinging metal scissors at a 70 year old man in a clear attempt to kill him (all captured on video) = summary execution by cowards.”

        But they were shot after they ran away, not while actively swinging the scissors. Both had been effectively captured when they were shot.

        I am just a few month short of 70. I am also short in stature, and skinny. I have bad knees, too. But I am well trained in martial arts and punctuation. I could not have chased those girls, but I could have disarmed one or both of them by a devastating combination of skill, pedantry, and grumpiness.

        If I, very soon to be an elderly man, could do that, why couldn’t those police officers? They were younger than me, and presumably stronger and with better knees. Surely they could have caught the girls and given them a telling-off for running with scissors. Were they so undertrained?

        But if you think that attacking an elderly man requires summary execution of the attackers, track down these guys and execute them.

        http://www.imemc.org/article/73960

      • amigo
        amigo on November 24, 2015, 11:04 am

        Herchel , Ro Ha has a question for you down thread.

        Done the usual troll disappearing act when the going gets tough and , eh herchel.

  4. amigo
    amigo on November 23, 2015, 12:12 pm

    These daily street executions seem to be part of Israeli policy.Nobody seems to bat an eyelid.

    F–k International Law. Screw obeying any laws of war .We are the chosen people and because of what the “Europeans” did to us , we can do as we please.

    I wonder at what point the chosen people will call for an end to this .When two hundred “Jews ” have been killed or does their tolerance for the death of Jews not reach that far.My point being , that the number of Palestinians murdered is of no concern to the chosen ones so the end of this will only be called for when enough Jews have been killed or the relative lack of disruption the occupation had on their lives becomes “unbearable”.It,s always about them .They are always the victim and someone else is always at fault.

    • John O
      John O on November 23, 2015, 12:24 pm

      As the prophet Tom Lehrer put it – “You just stand there looking cute, and when something moves, you shoot.”

    • Marnie
      Marnie on November 23, 2015, 1:42 pm

      “They are always the victim and someone else is always at fault.” That’s the line they live and kill by.

      Let’s see, 3 big men, all with guns, scared gutless of 2 teenage girls, with scissors…Shot them dead. Remarkable cowardice, that those 3 bastards couldn’t take a chance of being cut by scissors, and used deadly force instead. Cowards.

    • lysias
      lysias on November 23, 2015, 2:19 pm

      F–k International Law.

      Unfortunately, the Attorney General of the United States under the elder Bush, Bill Barr, used precisely those words at an interdepartmental meeting that was attended by an official who quoted his words to me.

      American exceptionalism is just as bad.

      • amigo
        amigo on November 23, 2015, 3:04 pm

        “American exceptionalism is just as bad.” Lysias

        Question is , who taught who.

  5. Ossinev
    Ossinev on November 23, 2015, 1:12 pm

    @amigo
    “I wonder at what point the chosen people will call for an end to this”
    Unfortunately Nitay and his cohorts through their election gambit to bring on board the far right and their subsequent rhetoric have already brought the” chosen” people beyond the” point ” of no return. You are talking about hundreds of thousands if not millions of brainwashed Zionist zombies in and out of uniform who now see shooting to kill as normal behaviour if the victim is Arab/black/generally non Aryan looking and is carrying a knife,scissors,pen, or pencil and does no more than look funny or is perceived to be looking at them in a funny way.

    The “never again” has become instead “yippee it`s our turn , the rest of the world doesn`t give a shit and and even if they did we don`t give a shit about the rest of the world, so let`s practice some of our very own home grown pogromising on these Palestinian squatters”.

    The only hope is an enhanced BDS and a recognition by the rest of the world that the Zionist Zombie is just a variation on the ISIS one – ie they should also be monitored,tracked detained and refused entry. We already have the example of the activities of the “Jewish Defence League ” in France as a template. IMO it is very likely that Zionist Jihadists (trained in Israel) will be travelling back to Europe briefed to carry out anti – Muslim attacks (flavoured with some false flag attacks ) and Europe will need to protect itself against them in the same way as against ISIS. Far fetched ? – perhaps but then again we are talking about “the Chosen people ” here.

    • amigo
      amigo on November 23, 2015, 3:09 pm

      Ossinev, I am a firm believer in the zionist,s ability to destroy themselves.A gentle push in the back ,(BDS) will be added value.

      Nothing Israel does is far fetched . No act is too vile for these maniacs.

  6. Walker
    Walker on November 23, 2015, 8:22 pm

    These random attacks on Israelis are an expression of bedrock despair. I sympathize very much with the attackers’ frustration with decades of bitter oppression. Still, they are wrong, both morally due to the randomness and practically due to their counter-effectiveness.

    The US is partly to blame for them, and as an American once more I feel ashamed.

  7. Marnie
    Marnie on November 23, 2015, 11:47 pm

    IMO the only end to this will be the GoI employing the Samson option on itself as they are apparently convinced that releasing the stranglehold on Palestine and her people will mean their ultimate demise. They are convinced, and have convinced so many outside the bubble that is the zionist state, that the “Jewish people” will not survive without the status quo. It’s an extremely pessimistic point of view, I know. But there are some idiots here ready to destroy Al-Aqsa mosque and replace it with a 3rd temple, complete with ritual and sacrifice and these assholes I think are more than willing to sacrifice their own to do it. Which, ironically, is quite a pagan thing to do (their true colors shining through).

  8. Maximus Decimus Meridius
    Maximus Decimus Meridius on November 24, 2015, 4:30 am

    It always makes me snigger when I hear Zionists puff themselves up and talk tough about bombing Iran.

    So the gang of pants pissesrs who ran away from kheezbalakh and who can’t disarm teenage girls armed with nothing more than scissors are going to take on the Republican Guard?

    Thanks for the laugh.

  9. Kay24
    Kay24 on November 24, 2015, 6:56 am

    They are basically cowards. They act tough only because they are well armed and their victims are not. We have seen videos of women and children attacking a soldier and the panic in his face, we have seen these “tough” IDF goons using little kids as human shields as they search areas, and we have seen little kids playing soccer being blown up from afar by killers who were obviously in no real danger at that time. These are cowardly acts, and the hallmarks of a well trained military using deadly weapons on civilians.

    They are one of the most detestable armed forces pretending to be a “democracy” .

    • Boo
      Boo on November 25, 2015, 4:26 pm

      They’re legends in their own minds. And they were run out of Lebanon last time with their tails between their legs.

  10. Ossinev
    Ossinev on November 24, 2015, 7:13 am

    MDM
    Summed it up nicely. Remember that for Zionist Israelis “boots on the ground ” means boots on the necks of defenceless Palestinian teenagers lying on the ground prior to neutralising them. These second rate a….oles still live in the world of the” glory” days of 67 and 73 when little Israel defeated the” might” of the Arab world all on their own ( psst don`t say it out loud but in 67 they had to sink an American ship to achieve their objectives and guess what in 73 they would have been totally f…ed if the Americans had not bailed them out with weapons resupply).
    In the Zionist mind everything is 50 years in the past when it comes to actual real wars and battles , and despite Hezbollah pissing all over them in their last Lebanon incursion they really do believe that their brave moral soldiers are a match for anything and anybody on the ground. Fact is they would s..t themselves and run away when faced with a real battle hardened army or a Hezbollah type organisation.

    The only wars they are capable of conducting are Play station carpet bombings of civilian conurbations from the cockpits of F35`s.

    A good example of their mindset is the recent call from Shabti Shavat,a former head of Mossad in response to the reinforcement of Raqqa by ISIS , for it to be “wiped off the map like Dresden ” as reported in yesterday`s UK Times.

    Sadly for them they are restricted to mowing the lawn occasionally in Gaza but they can sure encourage others to blow up other problem Arab or Persian lawns. They don`t want to actually get involved themselves you understand but they can still offer their world leading advice.

    • Maximus Decimus Meridius
      Maximus Decimus Meridius on November 24, 2015, 12:38 pm

      Yeah, it always amuses me when an ‘army’ which hasn’t won a war since 1973 – and then against 3rd world opposition – still seems to think it can offer advice on military tactics. And it’s not for the want of trying – Israel has gone to war 4 times in the past 9 years, and while they managed to inflict massive civilian casualties every time, the military results were unimpressive for them, to say the least.

      I’ll accept that the IDF in the early days of the Israeli state were brave and competent (though no less brutal) – after all, many of these guys served in the allied armies in WWll. In recent – and no so recent – years, however, the IDF has descended into a colonial police force, whose spoilt brat members think it’s heroic to harrass pregnant women at checkpoints. Even in their first invasion of Lebanon, when they were so full of their own hubris that they boasted that even the IDF army band could conquer Lebanon, they did not dare enter Beirut, preferring instead the coward’s option of indicriscrimately bombing civilian areas from the safety of the sky, often resulting in 100s of casualties at a time.

      Since then, as we see every 2 years ago, it’s been further downhill. And they still like to hint that they might be prepared to take on Iran! Trouble is, they’ve been making those ‘threats’ for at least 10 years now, and nobody belives them anymore. Time to go back to picking on stone throwing kids in refugee camps, boys. That’s about your level.

  11. brent
    brent on November 24, 2015, 12:00 pm

    Much can be said about this tragedy. Clearly these girls have gone irrational. Clearly there is a policy of killing instead of apprehending.

    What bothers me most is the damage being done to the relationship between these peoples…. and to the efforts of so many to effect an accommodation.

    In an immediate sense, Palestinians have the most to lose. Where is the intellectual class, the political leaders, who should be providing guidance for “effective” resistance to occupation?

    • Maximus Decimus Meridius
      Maximus Decimus Meridius on November 24, 2015, 4:47 pm

      “What bothers me most is the damage being done to the relationship between these peoples…. and to the efforts of so many to effect an accommodation.”

      There is no ‘relationship’ other than that between the occupied and the occupier. And where are these people trying ‘ to effect an accommodation’? Certainly not in Israel, where Bibi is on track to be the longest serving PM, and an overwhelming majority backed the Gaza slaughter. And what would such an ”accommodation” look like?

      “Where is the intellectual class, the political leaders, who should be providing guidance for “effective” resistance to occupation?”

      Maybe you can provide us with some pointers as to what should be an ‘effective’ resistance against a brutal military occupation which sees nothing wrong with murdering teenage girls, and whose every war crime is shrugged off by the outside world as ‘self defence’?

      • Mooser
        Mooser on November 24, 2015, 5:32 pm

        There have been lots of ‘Israeli accommodations’. They’re called “illegal settlements”

      • brent
        brent on November 25, 2015, 12:18 am

        “Maybe you can provide us with some pointers as to what should be an ‘effective’ resistance – ”

        I see the Jewish people deciding how they will be in the world. Aspiring for the values of Judaism or shielding behind nationalism. They are somewhere near being equally divided and it can go either way. From this the future of Palestine will likely flow.

        The experience in Europe traumatized and left an indelible psychological impact…. a sense of victimization. Due to this, the idea of random murder based solely on being part of the group impacts the psychology of the whole group. ” It could have been me.”

        The Palestinian attacks are traumatizing to the whole and reinforce chauvinist nationalism.

        Additionally, that these acts are accepted as a response to dehumanization, provides further reason to dehumanize and argue that an accommodation is unrealistic.

        We are past the time when rockets, stones, or knives can advance a desirable outcome. Now is the time for placards, hunger strikes and cameras. Appealing to the decency in Judaism.

        Advocating for equality in one state will bring two states closer.

        The extreme nationalists have likely acted in brutal ways to distance any “agreement” by keeping the rage high and the logic low. They depend on the media narrative of Israel as the victim and Palestinians bringing the bad things upon themselves. They need that permission note, “We hereby give you permission to do what you want when you want.”

      • eljay
        eljay on November 25, 2015, 12:27 pm

        || brent: … We are past the time when rockets … can advance a desirable outcome. … ||

        You might want to forward that memo to Israel.

        || … Now is the time for placards, hunger strikes and cameras. Appealing to the decency in Judaism. … ||

        The problem is that Judaism doesn’t run Israel – Zio-supremacism does. And Zio-supremacism – which concerns itself with Jewish supremacism in a religion-supremacist “Jewish State” in as much as possible of Palestine – has no decency.

        It’s like suggesting that the victim should appeal to the decency in the nice young man. Problem is, the nice young man is a psychopathic rapist.

      • diasp0ra
        diasp0ra on November 25, 2015, 1:00 pm

        @Brent

        “Now is the time for placards, hunger strikes and cameras. Appealing to the decency in Judaism.”

        You don’t seem to understand that the rockets and knives came only after decades of placards and hunger strikes failed.

        You don’t liberate yourself by sucking up to your oppressor. Please tell me of one national liberation movement that achieved its liberation through appealing to the morals of their colonizers.

        How about instead of telling people suffering under occupation for decades how to react to their suffering, while you sit safely far away, you tell the Israelis to stop breaking humanitarian law? Maybe they should be the ones to try and be peaceful for a change?

        How can you even expect an occupied population to care about the security of their occupier?

      • Maximus Decimus Meridius
        Maximus Decimus Meridius on November 25, 2015, 2:21 pm

        Brent,

        I’ll assume you’re writing in good faith and not trolling us. If the former is true, then all I can say is that you’re extremely naive and thoroughly uninformed about the situation in Palestine. Here’s an example!

        “They need that permission note, “We hereby give you permission to do what you want when you want.”

        No, they do not need that permission. You may not be aware that the last decade or so has been the most ‘cost-free’ period Israel has ever enjoyed, with fewer Israeli victims of ‘terrorism’ than at just about any stage in that country’s history. And what was the Israelis response? Sderot cinema, the siege of Gaza, and Bibi on course to become the longest serving PM in Israel’s history. The notion that if only the Palestinians ‘played nice’ with their occupiers, as well as being morally dubious (as diaspora says, has any other national liberation struggle ever been won by pandering to the sensitivities of the oppressor?) is just not going to work. That is because, to put it bluntly, the Israelis simply don’t give a shit about Palestinians. Attempting to appeal to their non-existent ‘good will’ is a recipe for the indefinate continuation of the occupation.

        Is that what you want?

      • Mooser
        Mooser on November 25, 2015, 3:30 pm

        “I see the Jewish people…”

        And then you string out a bunch of BS, all predicated on a term you never define.

        Oh, I see, you want to drag the rest of us into it as a counterweight to Zionist crimes.

        Take a look a “Brent’s” archive, it’s 23 comments, every one concern trolling the Palestinian’s inadequate efforts to make friends with their returning neighbors.

      • Mooser
        Mooser on November 25, 2015, 5:26 pm

        “Appealing to the decency in Judaism.”

        The Jewish religion has proven to be much more than compliant in every aspect of Zionism. In every denomination, Orthodox most of all. So where does this “decency in Judaism” reside?

      • Kris
        Kris on November 25, 2015, 7:59 pm

        @Brent: “Now is the time for placards, hunger strikes and cameras. Appealing to the decency in Judaism. ”

        Would this be the same “decency in Judaism” that has supported 60+ years of ethnic cleansing and slow-motion holocaust against the Palestinians?

      • eljay
        eljay on November 25, 2015, 8:04 pm

        || Mooser: … Take a look a “Brent’s” archive, it’s 23 comments, every one concern trolling the Palestinian’s inadequate efforts to make friends with their returning neighbors. ||

        He must be one of those a4tech-style “Muslims”.

  12. Mooser
    Mooser on November 24, 2015, 3:14 pm

    “What bothers me most is the damage being done to the relationship between these peoples…. and to the efforts of so many to effect an accommodation. “

    What on earth kind of BS is this? Some kind of new-age Nakba denial?
    “The relationship between these two peoples?” Gee, and I thought “relationships” were based on consent . Maybe “eljay” can explain it to you.

    Where is the intellectual class, the political leaders, who should be providing guidance for “effective” resistance to occupation?

    I assume you are asking this question about the Israelis, right?

    • eljay
      eljay on November 24, 2015, 8:16 pm

      || brent: … What bothers me most is the damage being done to the relationship between these peoples…. and to the efforts of so many to effect an accommodation. … ||

      || Mooser: What on earth kind of BS is this? Some kind of new-age Nakba denial?
      “The relationship between these two peoples?” Gee, and I thought “relationships” were based on consent . Maybe “eljay” can explain it to you. … ||

      Dunno, Mooser, maybe he’s onto something.

      Y’see, many have expended efforts to effect an accommodation between the rapist and his victims*, but every time the victims lash out and the rapist pummels them in return it damages the relationship between them.

      Perhaps if…
      – the rapist beats and rapes his victims more gently; and
      – the victims lie back and enjoy it instead of “going irrational” on the rapist,
      …”peace” can finally be realized.

      __________________________
      (*One wonders why many didn’t expend efforts to liberate the victims, arrest the rapist and hold him accountable for his crimes.)

  13. kalithea
    kalithea on November 24, 2015, 8:04 pm

    The Gush Etzion municipality announced today that Palestinians will no longer be permitted entry into the settlement, though a number of Palestinians are employed there.

    Oh good! That means the squatters have to clean their own toilets from now on.

  14. MaxNarr
    MaxNarr on November 25, 2015, 11:37 pm

    To bad they stabbed a Palestinian they mistook for a Jew. Maybe now some of you will issue condemnations for this attempted murder?

    • eljay
      eljay on November 27, 2015, 9:50 am

      || MaxNarr: To bad they stabbed a Palestinian they mistook for a Jew. … ||

      So…you wish they had stabbed an actual Jewish person instead? Why do you hate Jews so much?!

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