Trending Topics:

One State: A view from Gaza

Israel/Palestine
on 97 Comments

There are those who believe that Israel’s recently-passed Nation-State Law represents a failure of the one-state option, as it formalizes the exclusively Jewish nature of the dominant state in Palestine and with it, the disenfranchisement of the non-Jewish population.

The new law could also be viewed, however, as betraying a fear on the part of the occupying power that the de facto imposition of one state on the ground holds within it the seeds of the dismantling of the colonial project from the inside. Seen in this way, all of the decisions, laws and actions taken by the occupying power to insist upon the specifically Jewish character of the state are but desperate attempts to go against history and legitimize an order that is both unfair and unsustainable.

There are many reasons why the One State idea may never be realized: the tremendous imbalance of power, the rising racism in Israeli society, that Palestinian society itself may not not yet be fully ripe for embracing such an inclusive idea. These challenges, however, should not lead us to underestimate the intrinsic power of the idea itself. History shows that a prophetic vision can begin with few followers and still be carried forward by the intrinsic power of its message.

There are many arguments for One State. First, it is the most realistic option, as it is takes into account both sides of the human equation: on the one hand, the fundamental right of all Palestinians to return to their homes in freedom from occupation, oppression and second-class citizenship, and on the other, the reality of the existence of millions of Jews that live in Palestine.

Concerns about the fate of the Israeli Jews in a liberated Palestine have until now been a major reason for the weakness of international support for our cause. This dilemma is solved by a One State solution that clearly calls, not for “throwing them into the sea” (an idea that is as unfair as it is unrealistic), but for the recognition of full rights and equality for all.

It is true that there are people who came to Palestine with the intention of expelling Palestinians from their homes and taking their place, but guilt can only be ascribed to individuals, not entire nations; and children cannot be held responsible for the crimes of their parents. There are generations of Israelis who know only this land as their home, and they are not responsible for the fact that they were born here.

If my primary goal as a Palestinian is to return to my land, it is of less concern to me who else stays or goes. The most important thing for me is to regain my rights and see the era of displacement and oppression brought to an end.

The idea of One State is aligned with the spirit of our time. The global consciousness has evolved away from the idea of nationalism toward one of citizenship. Millions of Arabs today are citizens in Europe and America who enjoy the same rights as all other citizens of those countries. Why can’t Jews live in Palestine in exactly the same way – on the basis of citizenship and not of Occupation?

There are many Palestinians who have emigrated to the West whose interests have become linked to their new homeland. They – and still less their children and grandchildren – would not necessarily return to a liberated Palestine, because their new countries have become an integral part of their lives. It is also possible for new generations of Israeli Jews, who are similarly connected to Palestine, to have a way to live in this land without remaining in the unacceptable position as occupiers.

There are some who reject the idea of coexistence with Israeli Jews in a shared land out of a subconscious fear that sharing the same society with people of other ethnicities and religions means we will all become alike. Yet Palestinians in the West already live together with many other groups, including Jews and even Zionists, in one state and under one law. In a single multi-ethnic Palestinian state each group will still be able to maintain its shared bonds of religion and culture without having to live in walled ghettoes like the people in Gaza, the West Bank and Jerusalem today.

We Palestinians can have our full rights in a single state. We may still have to struggle for them using the tools of peaceful civil struggle, as Palestinian Member of the Knesset Haneen Zoabi and activist Raed Salah do today, but it will be far less costly and bloody than the struggle we face today in West Bank, Gaza and the Diaspora.

The truth is that we already live in a single state, governed by Netanyahu in coordination with the Palestinian Authority (as former PLO chief Saeb Erekat has publicly admitted), and we are left imploring the Israeli government to open its checkpoints to let patients out for treatment and medical supplies in for our hospitals. The Gaza Strip is a prison inside this one state, whose people are struggling to break down their prison walls. 1948 (“Arab Israeli”) and West Bank Palestinians also live in ethnic enclaves within this single state as second-class citizens and non-citizens in the land of their birth.

Thus, the One-State thesis does not call for the establishment of a new reality, but for a struggle based on the existing reality: a struggle to bring down the walls, end ethnic discrimination, and build in their place a state that insures equality, dignity and freedom for all people. This is more realistic than seeking the end of Israel or even the creation of a separate Palestinian state – and also more just.

Implementing a One-State solution will not be easy, and the Occupation will fight hard against it, but since when has a ruling elite’s refusal of change been a reason to give up the struggle for fairness and basic human equality? The power of the One State idea is not its amenability to the Occupier, but its intrinsic nature as both the least costly and the morally superior solution. That should make it worth our while to reimagine our struggle in the light of this vision.

Our problem is with the racism and the occupation of Israel, not with the existence of Jewish people in Palestine. Our goal is to topple the project of Occupation while allowing anyone born in Palestine to remain here based on equal human rights as citizens of a single state.

The simplicity and justness of this vision should compel us to reformulate our struggle toward its attainment.

This article was originally published in Arabic by arabi21.com. This translation was done by Denny Cormier, Rana Shubair and Peter Cohen. 

Ahmed Abu Rtemah
About Ahmed Abu Artema

Born in Rafah, Gaza Strip, in 1984, Ahmed Abu Artema is a Palestinian refugee. An independent Gaza-based writer and social-media activist, he has written the book "Organized Chaos" and numerous articles. He is one of the original founders and organizers of the Great Return March.

Other posts by .


Posted In:

97 Responses

  1. wondering jew
    wondering jew
    August 17, 2018, 11:32 am

    “…allowing anyone born in Palestine to remain here based on equal human rights as citizens of a single state.”

    I’m sure that Ahmed Abu Artema feels he is being generous with this offer. Please note that the 29.7% of Israelis that are foreign born will be subject to expulsion under this formulation.

    • oldgeezer
      oldgeezer
      August 17, 2018, 12:06 pm

      @wondering jew

      Well he has reason to be able to feel that is generous as it certainly is more generous than what Israel permits. Those who would be expelled would have other countries which were their home while Palestinians had nowhere to go.

      • catalan
        catalan
        August 17, 2018, 1:03 pm

        “Those who would be expelled would have other countries which were their home” oldgeezer
        Bulgarians call this “frying the fish before you have caught it”. How about we see how the next war turns out and then we can decide who gets expelled, etc.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        August 17, 2018, 2:35 pm

        Bulgarians call this “frying the fish before you have caught it”.

        Those Bulgar boatmen know a lot about fish.

      • oldgeezer
        oldgeezer
        August 17, 2018, 8:58 pm

        @catalan

        Oh I know Israel has the might just as you do. While I was making a rhetorical response you have a clear record of supporting crimes against humanity and encouraging ethnic cleansing.

      • DaBakr
        DaBakr
        August 18, 2018, 1:28 am

        @og

        Snowflake. Most Palestinians as well as Israelis would be ashamed of you. You think you know your enemy yet you don’t even understand your friends.

    • amigo
      amigo
      August 17, 2018, 12:41 pm

      Why is that a problem.They should never have been there in the first placd.
      Ship em back to whence they came.

      Under this formulation . 70.03 % of the total numbe
      r of zionist invaders get to remain.

      Zionists never have enough.Gimme.Gimme.

      • SwedishMarkus
        SwedishMarkus
        August 18, 2018, 6:02 pm

        I’m sorry, but do you understand that most of them literally have nothing to go back to? The Jewish communities they left behind often no longer exist, and the countries those communities existed in are often wildly antisemitic.

        Every single Jew gets to stay in the democratic Palestinian state. Period. This is not open for discussIon. Expelling Jews based on being Jewish is antisemitism.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        August 18, 2018, 8:49 pm

        “Every single Jew gets to stay in the democratic Palestinian state.”

        Absolutely, every one that wants to. How many will that be?
        And don’t worry, a lot of Israelis won’t be able to leave the democratic Palestine, well, until they are paroled.

      • SwedishMarkus
        SwedishMarkus
        August 20, 2018, 5:47 pm

        @Mooser – Define “a lot”. Are the Palestinians going to throw every single Israeli in prison who ever served in the IDF? Every Israeli who ever lived in a West Bank or East Jerusalem settlement?

        If so, then I wish them good luck with that. They’ll have the biggest per-capita prison population of any country in human history…

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        August 20, 2018, 7:15 pm

        ” Are the Palestinians going to throw every single Israeli in prison who ever served in the IDF? Every Israeli who ever lived in a West Bank or East Jerusalem settlement?”

        You would make them live in Israel, with no government subsidy now that the settlement is gone, thinking about what they did in the IDF and whether or not it’ll be prosecuted?

        I would never force that person to stay in Israel, and they do have their children to think of.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        August 20, 2018, 7:48 pm

        ” Are the Palestinians going to throw every single Israeli in prison”

        Hold up there, “Markus”. In a one-state solution all of those things(investigation, prosecution, reparations, punishment, truth and reconciliation, etc) would be handled by agencies composed of both Jews and Palestinians.

      • Talkback
        Talkback
        August 21, 2018, 7:00 am

        SwedishMarkus: “Are the Palestinians going to throw every single Israeli in prison who ever served in the IDF? Every Israeli who ever lived in a West Bank or East Jerusalem settlement?”

        No, only the Israeli who sign a confession written in Arab after hours of intimidation and abuse. You know, the good old Zionist way to find Palestinian children guilty.

        SwedishMarkus: “They’ll have the biggest per-capita prison population of any country in human history…”

        Yep. There are a lot of Zionist criminals out there.

      • echinococcus
        echinococcus
        August 21, 2018, 10:59 am

        Markus,

        Are the Palestinians going to throw every single Israeli in prison who ever served in the IDF? Every Israeli who ever lived in a West Bank or East Jerusalem settlement?

        Excellent question!
        Let’s settle for the terms of the Nuremberg judgments on the Nazi officers, those who “followed orders”, and the troops.
        And, of course, for the solution to the German Siedler problem in Poland, Chechoslovakia, etc.

      • SwedishMarkus
        SwedishMarkus
        August 24, 2018, 3:48 pm

        @Mooser — You can’t be prosecuted just for serving in a military force, only for committing war crimes whilst doing so. And what is it with you talking about “forcing” anyone to stay in Israel? I wasn’t talking about “forcing” anyone to do anything! And what are you talking about, “they have their children to think of”? Sounds like a threat if you ask me…

        However, I do very much approve of what you said about it being handled by agencies comprised of both Palestinians and Jews. Kudos to that!

        @TalkBack — What are you talking about? Are you trolling? Are you seriously suggesting that they *should* theow every single IDF member and every single former settler in jail? And what’s that about signing statements in Arabic? I really don’t get your point, I’m sorry.

        @echinococcus — Well, the Nuremberg trials didn’t prosecute every German who served in the Wehrmacht. Besides, the “solution” to the German problem led to a lot of people dying, which I don’t want to see happen in this case, oh and also STOP COMPARING JEWS TO NAZIS.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        August 24, 2018, 4:43 pm

        “@Mooser — You can’t be prosecuted just for serving in a military force, only for committing war crimes whilst doing so.”

        Exactly! So there may be quite a few who can be confident they won’t be prosecuted, right?

        And I am talking about forcing Jews to stay in Israel to bolster the Zionist’s claims there is a Jewish Nation or something.
        The Zionist must not be allowed to use Jews as their human shields.

        “oh and also STOP COMPARING JEWS TO NAZIS.”

        Is it all right if we compare Zionists to Nazis?

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        August 24, 2018, 4:51 pm

        “Are you seriously suggesting that they *should* theow every single IDF member and every single former settler in jail?”

        Don’t go verklemperer on us. More than likely, only the leaders, organizers (and of course those who have committed violent criminal actions) will face incarceration.

        At any rate, would you force them to stay and face all this uncertainty? I wouldn’t.
        I believe Zionist Jews should be given all the same choices, the same guarantees the Palestinians were given when the Zionists came to Palestine.

      • Talkback
        Talkback
        August 24, 2018, 5:10 pm

        SwedishMarkus: “Are you seriously suggesting that they *should* theow every single IDF member and every single former settler in jail?”

        Yes, the soldiers for interrogation (for example if they took part in the illegal oppucation or illegal blockade) and the settlers until deportation (because they are illegal immigrants violating the Geneva Conventions).

        SwedishMarkus: “And what’s that about signing statements in Arabic? I really don’t get your point, I’m sorry.”

        That’s the way the Zionist scumbags roll:
        “[Palestinian] Children are often coerced into signing confessions in Hebrew without understanding the language or content of the statement. ”
        “https://www.thenation.com/article/stop-the-imprisonment-of-palestinian-children/

        SwedishMarcus: “@echinococcus … STOP COMPARING JEWS TO NAZIS.”

        Wait, you want to deny that some Jews commit crimes some Germans did? Illegal annexation, collective punishment, Illegal colonialization of occupied territories, ethnic cleansing, denationalization, dispossession, demoliting homes, looting, etc.?

      • echinococcus
        echinococcus
        August 24, 2018, 5:57 pm

        Markus,

        the Nuremberg trials didn’t prosecute every German who served in the Wehrmacht

        That would have been impractical, to say the least, but the Court established the principle that obeying criminal orders is a crime, and how. As I said, I’ll gladly settle for the same terms as the Nuremberg trials.

        People who had been in any position of responsibility are still being arrested, extradited and dragged before courts at age 90+ (to satisfy the publicity thirst of hyenas in the Wiesenthal Center, and I promise to keep the same obdurately vengeful attitude against the Zionist war criminals as long as I’m alive –who knows?)

        Besides, the “solution” to the German problem led to a lot of people dying, which I don’t want to see happen in this case

        Well, you don’t want to, of course, but this has nothing to do with what you or I want. This is about the unstoppable mechanisms of the revolts of invaded and occupied peoples who aren’t met with justice and the way they develop. There’s nothing anything can really do about it. It’s either a genocide of the Palestinians successfully concluded in time, ie the American way, or Hell’s gates will open for the Zionists, and some. Even an Algeria-like solution is infinitely optimistic in my modest estimation.

        oh and also STOP COMPARING JEWS TO NAZIS

        No need to scream, and, ehm, who the hell do you think you’re talking to, you falsifying yellowtail? Who the f* ever mentioned “Jews”? Who made any specifications by religion? Who cares about the religion of Zionists?

        Zionism is not a religion but a goddam political movement, a genocidal political movement whose theory has been one of the ingredients of Nazi nationalism, and whose practice is comparable to Nazism so much that one swoons when making a list and looking at similarities. I already wrote about this comparison so many times I can’t remember and some has even passed “moderation”, so go learn in the archive or look up the published comparisons.

        I have half a mind to compare your technique, in detail, with that of WWII German propaganda but we won’t tax our moderators.

      • SwedishMarkus
        SwedishMarkus
        September 2, 2018, 11:33 am

        @Mooser — What Jews are being used by “the Zionists” as human shields? Aren’t most Jews living today technically part of “the Zionists”?

        And no, I don’t think it’s all right to compare Zionists to Nazis, considering what that implies.

        And what “choices” and “guarantees” are you talking about?

        @TalkBack — You can’t arrest or imprison every single soldier (or former soldier) and settler. It’s ridiculous. There will never be reconciliation, equality and peace if that happens. Isn’t that what you all want?

        And do you seriously think I support making Palestinian kids sign statements written in Hebrew? What are you even talking about? No one should ever be forced to sign a statement in a language they can’t understand!

        And what I “want to deny” is that comparing any Jews to Nazis for any reason is ever okay. Nothing more.

        @echinococcus — So you think that the Wiesenthal Center only cares about publicity and not about justice? Okay, sure. If you think that caring about the Holocaust is all about publicity, that’s on you.

        I also refuse to accept that the two options you listed are the only ones available. The only acceptable solution is the South African one.

        What did I falsify, and what is a “yellowtail”? And no, Nazism and Zionism are not comparable in any way. The total Palestinian death toll since 1948 equals one week in Treblinka. The only reason that comparison is used is to insult Jewish people in a pretty antisemitic way. What’s my “technique”, by the way?

      • Talkback
        Talkback
        September 2, 2018, 4:29 pm

        SwedishMarkus: “@TalkBack — You can’t arrest or imprison every single soldier (or former soldier) and settler. ”

        Why not? First of all we arrest all soldiers and ask them if they violated the Geneva Conventions or human rights. I’m sure there are some who didn’t. Secondly we deport every Israeli civilian who entered the state of Palestine under occupation and illegaly settled there.

        SwedishMarkus: “And what I “want to deny” is that comparing any Jews to Nazis for any reason is ever okay.”

        Any comparison is always ok. It helps finding similarities and differences. And there are definitely some similarities between some Zionist’s and Nazi’s war crime, crimes against humanity, violation of human rights and a genuin racist attitude. Of course that doesn’t mean that one can equate Zionists and Nazis. They are not identical. For example: Zionists don’t commit genocide against Jews.

      • SwedishMarkus
        SwedishMarkus
        September 3, 2018, 1:17 pm

        Talkback: “Why not? First of all we arrest all soldiers and ask them if they violated the Geneva Conventions or human rights. I’m sure there are some who didn’t.”

        No. There are millions of them, both current and former. You can’t arrest and prosecute all of them, not if you want a one-state solution. Like, do you want a one-state solution, or do you want an Arab state with the biggest per capita prison population in the world, most of whom are Jewish? No. High-ranking IDF personnel can be prosecuted, not every single soldier. Compromises must be made.

        Talkback: “Secondly we deport every Israeli civilian who entered the state of Palestine under occupation and illegaly settled there.”

        Deport to where, exactly? Tell me. And are you talking only about the ones living in the West Bank, East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights? Or literally every single Jew?

        Talkback: “Any comparison is always ok. It helps finding similarities and differences.”

        But why would you even want to compare these two? Who even cares about finding similarities and differences between these two ideologies? To what end?

      • Sibiriak
        Sibiriak
        September 3, 2018, 1:46 pm

        SwedishMarkus: But why would you even want to compare these two? Who even cares about finding similarities and differences between these two ideologies? To what end?
        ———————————————-

        Delegitimization of Zionism and Israel, I suspect.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        September 3, 2018, 1:49 pm

        “Swedish Markus”, there you go again. Israelis aren’t stupid. If there is a possibility of any of the dire consequences you mention, they will leave. Many have dual-passports already, and many countries will receive Israelis seeking asylums.

        The biggest dangers are the Israeli government preventing Israelis, especially Mizrahis, from leaving. And the second big danger is that the Israeli government will terrorize Israelis to prevent any change or expression of anti-Zionist activism.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        September 3, 2018, 1:54 pm

        “Aren’t most Jews living today technically part of “the Zionists”?

        Nobody is going to jail for putting a quarter in the Blue Box.

      • Talkback
        Talkback
        September 3, 2018, 2:25 pm

        SwedishMarkus: “High-ranking IDF personnel can be prosecuted, not every single soldier. Compromises must be made.”

        Depends on the crimes low ranking soldiers committed.

        SwedishMarkus: “But why would you even want to compare these two? Who even cares about finding similarities and differences between these two ideologies? To what end?”

        Never again!!!

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        September 3, 2018, 3:22 pm

        ” What did I falsify, and what is a “yellowtail”? “

        If you don’t know, I suggest you hie yourself to the nearest sushi bar.

      • amigo
        amigo
        September 3, 2018, 4:08 pm

        “Many have dual-passports already, and many countries will receive Israelis seeking asylums. “Mooser

        Ireland,s out.

        Rule one in our immigration policy.

        Anyone crazy enough to move to Ireland is not welcome.

        Besides , we export our crazy people to the USA .

        Ronald Reagan/JFK/Pat Buchanan/J Mc Cain, and an assortment of “convicted” crooks .

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_mobsters_of_Irish_descent

      • Talkback
        Talkback
        September 4, 2018, 3:07 am

        SwedishMarkus: “Deport to where, exactly?”

        Here’s a variation of a Zionist concept:

        Allow only the first generation of Jewish refugees the “right to return” and stay. Allow them to live in the Negev desert, because they know how to make a desert bloom. Allow them to live in closed enclaves and under martial law and permit system like they made Palestinians live until 1966 including voting rights. And deal with the rest of Jews like Israel wants to deal with descendants of Palestinian refugees.

        What do you think? It’s so Jewish and democratic that only haters wouldn’t like it, right?

    • Mooser
      Mooser
      August 17, 2018, 1:11 pm

      “Please note that the 29.7% of Israelis that are foreign born will be subject to expulsion under this formulation”

      “Yonah” ever heard the expression “What goes around, comes around”?

      • SwedishMarkus
        SwedishMarkus
        August 18, 2018, 6:07 pm

        “Mooser”, ever hear the expression “don’t ever even entertain the notion of mass-expulsion of Jews from anything calling itself a ‘democratic state'”?

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        August 18, 2018, 9:00 pm

        “of mass-expulsion”

        What mass-expulsion?
        Look, you tell us how many Israeli Jews you can guarantee will stick around to be equals and criminally and civilly liable, and maybe even pay reparations?

        Or will you just call any emigration by Israeli Jews in response to changing conditions an “expulsion”. Israeli Jews do have the right to leave if conditions don’t suit them, don’t they? Or will Zionism take that away from them, too?

      • Talkback
        Talkback
        August 19, 2018, 5:50 am

        SwedishMarkus: ““Mooser”, ever hear the expression “don’t ever even entertain the notion of mass-expulsion of Jews from anything calling itself a ‘democratic state’”?”

        I’m sure that most of us have heard the expression “don’t ever even call anything a ‘democratic state’ which has to keep voters and their descendants expelled, because of their faith/heritage”.

      • SwedishMarkus
        SwedishMarkus
        August 20, 2018, 5:44 pm

        @Mooser – I have no idea how many of them will will stick around. But I do know how many of them will have the *right* to stick around, though: all of them. Nothing else would be acceptable. And no, of course I am not calling willful emigration by Israeli Jews “expulsion”, of course not!

        @TalkBack – (sigh) I wasn’t calling Israel a democratic state at all. I was talking about the hypothetical future unitary democratic state.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        August 20, 2018, 8:00 pm

        ” I have no idea how many of them will will stick around.”

        No, you don’t. You can’t guarantee any of them will stay under very changed circumstances.
        Unless, of course, Israel makes a law preventing people from leaving during the national emergency. I think countries do that sometimes.

      • Talkback
        Talkback
        August 21, 2018, 7:08 am

        SwedishMarkus: “I wasn’t calling Israel a democratic state at all.”

        I didn’t claim or imply you did.

    • echinococcus
      echinococcus
      August 18, 2018, 2:57 am

      If you’re wondering, wonder rather about who the heck authorized a single person, even if a Palestinian, to give citizenship rights to invader offspring because they were born in invaded Palestine. That was never the case in recent history, see German Siedlers during WWII. Being born somewhere, even if as a result of non-criminal, law-abiding immigration, does not give rights there except in a handful of countries.

      And, well, you are not concerned anyway. Comfortably in the US, comfortably away from risk. Also exempt from accountability for your rants, but that’s not relevant to the topic.

    • Misterioso
      Misterioso
      August 18, 2018, 10:54 am

      @wondering Jew

      “Please note that the 29.7% of Israelis that are foreign born will be subject to expulsion under this formulation.”

      So what? What goes around comes around. I remind you that between late 1947 and 1967, by means of military might, several massacres, mass rape and intimidation, Zionist Jewish militias and the IDF dispossessed and expelled about one million two hundred and fifty thousand essentially defenseless indigenous Palestinian Arabs.

  2. Citizen
    Citizen
    August 17, 2018, 1:37 pm

    US ambassador tells Israeli MK ‘no reason to evacuate settlements’ in peace deal https://www.timesofisrael.com/us-ambassador-tells-israeli-mk-no-reason-to-evacuate-settlements-in-peace-deal/ via @timesofisrael

    Trump has a team of all Zionists with hands in the illegal settlements, so how will Trump’s deal impact the theoretical one-state plan?

  3. eibieman
    eibieman
    August 17, 2018, 2:10 pm

    The State cannot accept more than one Nation as a constitutional format. The Nation-State of 1648 is the fundamental flaw of Zionism and yet there are 3 proposals to replicate the State as a format! The One State Group also refers to a Constitution without any mechanism for formulating such a Constitution which must be a Constituent Assembly. The only method to resolve the contradictions is The Federation of Palestinian and Hebrew Nations. My book with that title will be published soon in England.

    “Collective Rights. Within the framework of a single democratic state, the Constitution will also protect collective rights and the freedom of association, whether national, ethnic, religious, class or gender. Constitutional guarantees will ensure that all languages, arts and cultures can flourish and develop freely. No group or collectivity will have any privileges, nor will any group or collectivity have any control or domination over others. The Constitution will deny the Parliament the authority to enact any laws that discriminate against any community, be it ethnic, national, religious, cultural or class.”

    This passage is the only advance made over the years by the One-State Group. Its significance is reduced by the denial previously of the proposition for National-Cultural Autonomy at the London conference. It is furthermore reduced to an aside by the lack of a proposition for a Constituent Assembly in parallel. All in all, the proposition is grossly lacking in supporting concepts. In place of the Zionist “Jewish and Democratic State” the OSG is proposing, in effect, a “Palestinian and Democratic State”, both of which are self-contradictory.

    • Mooser
      Mooser
      August 17, 2018, 3:00 pm

      “In place of the Zionist “Jewish and Democratic State” the OSG is proposing, in effect, a “Palestinian and Democratic State”, both of which are self-contradictory.”

      Now, there’s some high-class equivalency hasbara.

    • Talkback
      Talkback
      August 19, 2018, 6:17 am

      eibieman: “In place of the Zionist “Jewish and Democratic State” the OSG is proposing, in effect, a “Palestinian and Democratic State”, both of which are self-contradictory.”

      Not at all. Palestinians have been a constitutive people since 1925 which include Nonjews and Jews. Even the 1964 PLO definition includes native Jews and their paternal descendants. Jews on the other harnd are not a constitutive people. Nobody can become “Jewish” by acquiring the citizenship of any state. Therefore a “Jewish and democratic state” is racist, a “Palestinian and demoratic state” isn’t.

  4. Mooser
    Mooser
    August 17, 2018, 2:50 pm

    “Why can’t Jews live in Palestine in exactly the same way…”

    Zionists should get down on their knees and thank God they are dealing with people this generous. You want my answer?

    Jews can’t live in Palestine “in exactly the same way” because in places where Jews live as equals Jews have no control over what other Jews do. There is no way to enforce (beyond a certain amount of social pressure) any particular version of Judaism or Jewishness. Israel can’t tolerate that.

    Also, in places where Jews live “in exactly the same way” Judaism, let alone adherence to any particular sect does not entitle a Jew to anything beyond the same civil rights as other people. Israel can’t tolerate that.

    • RoHa
      RoHa
      August 17, 2018, 11:14 pm

      “in places where Jews live as equals Jews have no control over what other Jews do. There is no way to enforce (beyond a certain amount of social pressure) any particular version of Judaism or Jewishness. ”

      That certain amount of social pressure seems to manage quite a lot of enforcing.

      https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/qbe8bp/the-child-rape-assembly-line-0000141-v20n11

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        August 18, 2018, 7:25 pm

        “That certain amount of social pressure seems to manage quite a lot of enforcing.”

        Well then, just imagine what the situation is in Israel, where legal and religious pressure working through the government can be brought to bear.

  5. Nathan
    Nathan
    August 17, 2018, 5:38 pm

    Here’s another very interesting article about the “One-State”. Sadly, this article like all the articles about the “One-State” is written from the perspective of an anti-Israel activist, so the most important question of all is never addressed: Why on earth would the Jews agree to the proposal?

    It shouldn’t be too difficult to figure out the mainstream opinion of Israeli society. Here it is: The State of Israel is a very big success story. The population is increasing in leaps and bounds. The economy is fantastic. The military threats are very manageable. Now, in the face of such an incredible success, anyone proposing the switching of the existing state with another political entity has to explain why that would be a preferable option.

    We learn in this article that the author promises that the Israeli Jews born in the country will be able to stay. Well, he certainly hasn’t given a moment’s thought as to the meaning of his promise. The Jewish public believes that this is their country. Why would this public agree to change their situation to a new reality in which their staying in their own land is even a topic of discussion? The author’s promise (an obvious reaction to those Palestinians who wish to expel the Jews) is a very convincing argument to reject the “One-State” proposal. The present-day low-intensity conflict in which the Jews are absolutely victorious is probably a better deal than the unconditional surrender demanded by the vanquished.

    Theoretically, the above “One-State” proposal might be regarded to be generous and good-hearted in the wake of Israel’s total and absolute defeat. Instead of expelling the surviving Jews, the gracious Palestinian victors propose that the Jews stay in the country as citizens. However, Israel is the victorious side of this conflict. I think that even an anti-Israel activist should be able to understand the absurdity of merely offering the Jews that which they already have (the right to live in their own country).

    Perhaps, Mondoweiss could present a “One-State” proposal that takes into account the narrative of the Jewish public in Israel. I understand that it’s a very big challenge, because by definition an anti-Israel activist cannot accept the fact that there are two sides to this conflict. However, just as an intellectual exercise, let’s have an article that presents as self-evident that the Israelis are local people living in their own country. Let’s add to this intellectual exercise that these local people have legitimate interests and concerns, and they believe that their cause is just. Now, let’s hear a proposal that offers a “One-State” outcome that takes into account that there is another side to this story.

    • Mooser
      Mooser
      August 17, 2018, 7:00 pm

      “Why on earth would the Jews agree to the proposal?”

      Faced by existential consequences (of their own making, not that they’ll ever face that…) those Zionist Jews left in Israel (not “the Jews”) may make compromises.
      “Agreement” may not have much to do with it.

      You can certainly tell us Israel would rather chuck atom bombs around than compromise, if you like.

    • RoHa
      RoHa
      August 18, 2018, 2:57 am

      “Israelis are local people living in their own country”

      I’m inclined to agree, with the proviso that it is not exclusively their own country.

      “Let’s add to this intellectual exercise that these local people have legitimate interests and concerns,”

      I’ll agree to that, without, at this stage, agreeing that all their interests and concerns are legitimate.

      “and they believe that their cause is just.”

      There’s the rub. Insofar as that belief encompasses the “Jewish State” idea, the basic concepts of Zionism, they are wrong.

      The task, then, is to either change their belief or find a way of bringing about the one state regardless of that belief.

      I don’t know how either of these can be accomplished, but failure to do so will perpetuate or exacerbate the current, totally immoral, situation.

      Perhaps you could offer some positive suggestions.

    • Talkback
      Talkback
      August 18, 2018, 3:34 am

      @ Nathan

      Any other Afrikaaner’s Apartheid arguments you might want to add?

    • Misterioso
      Misterioso
      August 18, 2018, 10:46 am

      @Nathan

      “It shouldn’t be too difficult to figure out the mainstream opinion of Israeli society. Here it is: The State of Israel is a very big success story. The population is increasing in leaps and bounds. The economy is fantastic. The military threats are very manageable.”

      Dream on!
      Reality:
      NEWSWEEK – May 10/18
      “More Israelis are moving to the U.S.—and staying for good”
      “Spurred by the high cost of living, low salaries, and political and demographic trends, Israelis are leaving the country in droves.” By Yardena Schwartz

      EXCERPTS:
      “Israel celebrates its 70th birthday in May with the opening of the U.S. Embassy in Jerusalem. Yet the country is grappling with an existential crisis—one that doesn’t involve Iranian nukes or Palestinian protests. Spurred by the high cost of living, low salaries, and political and demographic trends, Israelis are leaving the country in droves, trying to build their lives elsewhere, mostly in the United States. Many of these young Israelis are moving to big cities, and yet, even in these often expensive places, they see more opportunities to advance.”

      “The available data is telling, analysts say. Between 2006 and 2016, more than 87,000 Israelis became U.S. citizens or legalized permanent residents, according to the most recent data from the U.S. Department of Homeland Security. That’s up from 66,000 between 1995 and 2005. These figures take into account only those who took the legal route (many Israelis, analysts say, arrive on temporary tourist, student or work visas, then stay). And in addition to the Israelis now living stateside, according to the country’s Ministry of Immigrant Absorption, hundreds of thousands have moved to Europe, Canada and elsewhere.

      “The country’s brain drain isn’t new. For years, many of its most talented scholars and researchers moved to the U.S., where the salaries are far higher and there are more jobs at top-tier universities. One report by Dan Ben-David, an economist at Tel Aviv University, found that the emigration rate of Israeli researchers was the highest in the Western world. Recently, however, the exodus has expanded to include average young people, many of whom say there’s simply no future in Israel.

      “Though this embattled country has become known as the ‘Startup Nation’ —it has more early-stage tech companies per capita than any other country—the average Israeli has little connection to that prosperous field. According to government data, 8 percent of Israelis work in high-tech, which pays up to seven times the national average salary of $2,765 a month (before taxes). Israel has one of the highest poverty rates and levels of income inequality in the Western world. Meanwhile, it also has one of the highest costs of living. Tel Aviv ranks ninth among the world’s most expensive cities, higher than New York and Los Angeles; five years ago, it ranked 34th. The situation is so dire that a 2013 survey by the financial newspaper Calcalist (the most recent Israeli study conducted on this topic) found that 87 percent of adults—many with children of their own—depend on substantial financial support from their parents.”

      If “Israel” is really “a very big success story,” then I guess Netanyahu will soon announce that it no longer needs U.S. taxpayer funded aid, which now well exceeds $134.7 billion since WWII and has played a key role in making “military threats…very manageable.” (“Threats” being the consequence of Israel’s dispossession/expulsion/illegal brutal occupation of the indigenous Palestinian Arabs as well as neighboring Arab lands, e.g., Syria’s Golan Heights and Lebanon’s Shebba Farms.)

      For the record:
      https://fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RL33222.pdf
      “Congressional Research Service, U.S. Foreign aid to Israel, Jeremy M. Sharpe, Specialist in Middle East Affairs, April 10, 2018.”

      “Israel is the largest cumulative recipient of U.S. foreign assistance since World War II. To date, the United States has provided Israel $134.7 billion (current, or noninflation-adjusted, dollars) in bilateral assistance and missile defense funding. Almost all U.S. bilateral aid to Israel is in the form of military assistance, although in the past Israel also received significant economic assistance. At a signing ceremony at the State Department on September 14, 2016, representatives of the U.S. and Israeli governments signed a new 10-year Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) on military aid covering FY2019 to FY2028. Under the terms of the MOU, the United States pledges to provide $38 billion in military aid ($33 billion in Foreign Military Financing grants plus $5 billion in missile defense appropriations) to Israel. This MOU replaces a previous $30 billion 10-year agreement, which runs through FY2018.”

      • Nathan
        Nathan
        August 19, 2018, 7:42 pm

        Misterioso – We have heard the story that everyone is leaving Israel (and the last one out is kindly requested to turn the lights out at the airport). Actually, everyone has been leaving for well over one hundred years. However, almost like a Biblical miracle, everyone is leaving but the population is always increasing. So, in 1920, there were about 60,000 Jews in the country. Today there are about 6,500,000.

        You seem to feel that Israel’s receiving aid from America is an indication that it’s not a success story. On the contrary, it’s a very big success. If you would win a scholarship, would you feel that you have failed or that you have succeeded?

        Anyway, the question remains: Why would the Jews agree to the dissolution of their state? I, personally, can’t think of any good reasons. I would expect that an author of an article that proposes the demise of Israel through some sort of mutual agreement would dedicate at least one convincing line explaining why on earth the victorious side of a conflict would suddenly decide to surrender. I think that an intellectual should be able to put himself in the shoes of others, trying to figure out what they might agree to. Maybe in the next Mondoweiss article about the “One-State”, we’ll hear the reason why the Jews (from THEIR point of view) might agree to the proposal.

      • annie
        annie
        August 19, 2018, 8:12 pm

        who said anything about Jews agreeing to the dissolution of their state? i must have missed something along the way. or do you live in some world where nothing happens unless jews agree to it. that would be a neat trick. guess they’re not too successful taking corbyn down last i heard, rampant false claims of anti semitism aside.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        August 19, 2018, 8:51 pm

        ” So, in 1920, there were about 60,000 Jews in the country. Today there are about 6,500,000.”

        “Nathan”, when will Israel attract enough Jews to make Israel self-sufficient, and able to pay for it’s own defense?

        6.5 million isn’t near enough to do that, where are the rest supposed to come from? Or is permanent super-power dependency the redemption of the Jewish people?

      • RoHa
        RoHa
        August 19, 2018, 8:56 pm

        “If you would win a scholarship, would you feel that you have failed or that you have succeeded?”

        If you won a scholarship, would you feel that you had failed or that you had succeeded?

      • Talkback
        Talkback
        August 20, 2018, 3:12 pm

        Nathan: “everyone is leaving but the population is always increasing”

        The population or the number of Jews who acquire Israeli citizenship?

        Nathan: “If you would win a scholarship, would you feel that you have failed or that you have succeeded?”

        It depends on how long this scholarship is. It is certainly a failure after a couple of years. Seems more like social welfare, no? And after a couple of decades it seems more like the result of fraud or extortion.

    • jeffhalper
      jeffhalper
      August 19, 2018, 8:46 am

      There is a published “pro-Israel” one-state plan” Carolyn Glick’s “The Palestine Solution.” Like similar plans of Naftali Bennet and the settlers, it finds clever ways of maintaining Jewish demographic superiority and rights. Glick advocates for the annexation of all of the West Bank (Judea and Samaria), but not Gaza, reducing the number of Palestinians to be annexed to less than 3 million. Of those, the Palestinians of Area A (around 120,000 today, since Area C has been largely “cleansed” – an Israeli term) will be given residency like the residents of East Jerusalem, not citizenship or the right to vote in national elections. And the millions of Areas A and B? “We’ll see, someday.”

      Then there’s Mordechai Kedar of Bar Ilan University who does not see the Palestinians as a people at all and advocates Israel annexing the West Bank (again, not Gaza) and establishing (all these plans assume unilateral Israeli decisions) seven “emirates” based on the rule of dominant local families. (This is sold as being more in keeping with “Arab culture.”) The most “liberal” pro-Israeli one-state plan is that of the Federation Plan, dividing the country into 30 Jewish or Palestinian cantons, all under Israeli law (except for, you got it, Gaza – plus, of course, none of these pans allow for the Right of Return). Though its a “federal” government, 20 of the 30 cantons are Jewish and, of course, Arabs cannot move into the Jewish cantons.

      These, Natan, are your “pro-Israel” one-state solutions. Why do the alternatives we suggest sound |anti-Israel” to you? For the simple reason that ANY plan based on equal rights among peoples and individual citizens in a democratic state MUST be a priori “anti-Israel,” since one cannot envision a single state that incorporates both equality and Israeli domination. A pro-Israel one-state solution is a contradiction in terms. We need to think of something more genuinely inclusive and equal. Our ODSC plan does take Israeli Jewish fears and concerns into account — as does Ahmed — but in the only way possible: establishing constitutional, legal and parliamentary mechanisms that protect EVERYONE’s rights and identity.

      • Talkback
        Talkback
        August 19, 2018, 5:33 pm

        jh: “Why do the alternatives we suggest sound |anti-Israel” to you? For the simple reason that ANY plan based on equal rights among peoples and individual citizens in a democratic state MUST be a priori “anti-Israel,” since one cannot envision a single state that incorporates both equality and Israeli domination. A pro-Israel one-state solution is a contradiction in terms.”

        Spot on. It is quite revealing that Zionists always use the term “anti-Israel” to distract from issues like human rights or equality, etc. To them the state is above humans as it is in fascism.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        September 3, 2018, 3:46 pm

        “To them the state is above humans as it is in fascism.”

        Does Zionism exists to serve Jews, or do Jews exist to serve Zionism?

    • annie
      annie
      August 19, 2018, 9:42 am

      nathan, the most important question of all is never addressed: Why on earth would the Jews agree to the proposal?

      assuming what “jews agree to” is important, and i’d argue it isn’t. as the author of this article makes clear

      since when has a ruling elite’s refusal of change been a reason to give up the struggle for fairness and basic human equality?

      people don’t “agree” to give up their privilege unless the alternative is worse. if anything, what’s lacking in the essay is the articulation of what that worse alternative might look like. global isolation? bds? imagine someone saying to the neocons, who want to invade iran, “Why on earth would the Iranians agree to the proposal?” no, they would again say “what would israel want”. it’s that obsession with ‘what the jews want’ at not just the expense anyone else, but as some sort of acceptance their concerns supersede others. and this concoction we are repeatedly confronted with called “jewish fear”, as if the fear of a jewish person is somehow separate, distinct, more important or fundamentally different from fears other people might experience, which they are not.

      we have a situation of impending doom, millions living under an oppressive regime for decades, ethnocide, which is a form of genocide that aims at eradicating the culture and language of an indigenous people (as recently articulated by Danielle Alma Ravitzki here: https://mondoweiss.net/2018/08/dropping-friend-dareen/ ), and you think the most important question is what jews will agree on. get your head out of your derriere, and think! the air is clearer out here.

      • wondering jew
        wondering jew
        August 19, 2018, 12:14 pm

        There is a reality principle that nathan is evoking that you, annie, are denying.

        Yes, you are saying, we are declaring war on Israel, not the violent neoconservative form of war against Iraq, but pressure to the point of convincing them that surrender is the best alternative. because to most israelis what is being proposed here is “Surrender!”

        Why do I evoke Kahneman and Tversky? Because decision making is the key here.

        An assessment of reality might be inferior to a pure discussion of pure justice. (I don’t think adults who claim Palestinian residency should be expelled as is being proposed here and I don’t consider it pure justice based upon that. But this is a crowd that would like to see mass expulsions, so I could not get a fair hearing on this turf.) But i also realize that the desire to return to 1947 or 1917 or 1897 is on one hand inevitable but on the other hand ultimately backwards precisely because of the facts on the ground.

        Essays that disregard reality are essential for the purity of their ideas. But reality is a principle as well.

      • annie
        annie
        August 19, 2018, 1:13 pm

        i’m denying a “reality principle”? iow, you think it’s a principle of reality that nothing will change until “jews agree”? am i understanding you correctly? i’m curious, does that work for other people? for other regimes? like nothing will change in saddam’s iraq until “iraqis agree”? or all alternative proposals concerning iran need to be filtered through “iranians agree” is that some principle in foreign relations or just a principle for jewish or israeli relations? because i have not heard of this. or maybe just not understanding you.

        but pressure to the point of convincing them that surrender is the best alternative. because to most israelis what is being proposed here is “Surrender!

        do you also ever perceive israeli politicians, or the jewish israeli public, proposing palestinians “Surrender!” do you think that is equally absurd? or just when jews think they are being asked to surrender?

        Yes, you are saying, we are declaring war on Israel

        no, i am not! neither is bds a declaration of war on israel. now you are being hyperbolic. and i don’t know who Kahneman and Tversky are.

      • Talkback
        Talkback
        August 19, 2018, 5:22 pm

        wondering jew: “But i also realize that the desire to return to 1947 or 1917 or 1897 is on one hand inevitable but on the other hand ultimately backwards precisely because of the facts on the ground.”

        Imagine that some people would want to go backwards thousands of years while facing the facts on the grounds. Hopeless. That’s why Zionism never succeded.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        August 19, 2018, 5:27 pm

        “Yes, you are saying, we are declaring war on Israel”

        “Yonah” when are going to accept the fact that Israel’s actions, Zionism’s actions, have consequences? It’s sort of a “reality principle”

    • Jane Porter
      Jane Porter
      August 19, 2018, 4:55 pm

      to Nathan
      “Why on earth would the Jews agree to the proposal?”
      Yes why? they have stolen this land with European colonial Countries help.
      And as the zionists are a colonial -minded community, like the “pieds-noirsin Algeria,
      they ‘ll prefer war to keep their power and so-called superiority there….instead of being wise and conscious that this way of thinking is old crap.
      And you should stop using “jews” instead of zionists, and that includes a racist/fascist jews and non-jews various from countries. And in each community of people there is a group
      of stupid and greedy people who dishonours the rest. My friends and I don’t think , Jews or non-Jews we see this Israel story as a mistake and getting each day more monstruous.

  6. gamal
    gamal
    August 17, 2018, 6:22 pm

    “Our problem is with the racism and the occupation of Israel, not with the existence of Jewish people in Palestine”

    Yes American marines invaded Lebanon in 1958 here invading behind the stars and bars, were they do you think trying to tell us something …segregation today etc.

    https://preview.tinyurl.com/ycb6qmyt

  7. echinococcus
    echinococcus
    August 18, 2018, 3:01 am

    If you’re wondering, wonder rather about who the heck authorized a single person, even if a Palestinian, to give citizenship rights to invader offspring because they were born in invaded Palestine. That was never the case in recent history, see German Siedlers during WWII. Being born somewhere, even if as a result of non-criminal, law-abiding immigration, does not give rights there except in a handful of countries.

    And, well, you are not concerned anyway. Comfortably in the US, comfortably away from risk. Also exempt from accountability for your rants, but that’s not relevant to the topic.

    • Talkback
      Talkback
      August 19, 2018, 6:24 am

      Echi, I agree with the author’s statement: “If my primary goal as a Palestinian is to return to my land, it is of less concern to me who else stays or goes. The most important thing for me is to regain my rights and see the era of displacement and oppression brought to an end.”

      So what’s your problem with the idea that the “invader offspring” would istay n One-state-Palestine?

      • echinococcus
        echinococcus
        August 19, 2018, 9:22 am

        Talkback,

        Of course anyone understands 100% that a Palestinian’s primary goal will be to be back in one’s own land (and, of course, solve the even much thornier issue of full rights while the invaders still effectively sit at the wheel.) No one in his right mind looks forward to more bloody fighting when a compromise can be reached. That much is obvious, no need to discuss.

        What must be discussed, though, is the justice aspect (how neglected that has been is obvious from the fact that we have been exchanging correspondence with you for years and you never heard me, for example.) Is it so hard to make clear that justice (ie the satisfaction of a sense of fairness in the popular mind) is not the same thing as a compromise to make the best out of a bad hand?

        While that consensual (if still wildly improbable) one-state is probably the best that can be achieved short of a way more horrible and more uncertain war than the one raging today, it is still a slap in the face of the Palestinian people because it ignores the self-determination right; it encourages further wars of aggression and conquest by establishing that anyone can get away with it, as long as you’re protected by colonial powers; it is the total cancellation of international law from the treaty of Westphalia to the UN Charter.

        All of that is of course outside the primary goal of any of the oppressed but I’ll bet you anything that a huge lot of them will be boiling with resentment for a very, very long time if the former Herrenvolk are not a tiny minority. Lots of examples around in history and living memory.

      • Talkback
        Talkback
        August 19, 2018, 5:13 pm

        echi: “What must be discussed, though, is the justice aspect (how neglected that has been is obvious from the fact that we have been exchanging correspondence with you for years and you never heard me, for example.)”

        It’s not a matter of neglect. I may be naive, but I still have the hope that one day you are going to explain your position without sounding uttterly inhumane. Your ‘solution’ goes way beyond South Africa’s.

        echi: “While that consensual (if still wildly improbable) one-state is probably the best that can be achieved short of a way more horrible and more uncertain war than the one raging today, it is still a slap in the face of the Palestinian people because it ignores the self-determination right;”

        How, if Palestinians want to exercise it the way the author describes it?

        echi: “… it encourages further wars of aggression and conquest by establishing that anyone can get away with it, as long as you’re protected by colonial powers; it is the total cancellation of international law from the treaty of Westphalia to the UN Charter.”

        And your solution to support international, humanitarian law and the UN Charter is is to expell every Jew who wasn’t born in Palestine before the mandate, including his/her descendant???

      • echinococcus
        echinococcus
        August 20, 2018, 9:52 pm

        Talkback,

        I see that saying there’s a difference between justice and compromise is not easy to get across.

        You say I’m opposing a solution “if Palestinians want to exercise it the way the author describes it” while I already indicated strong support to the author’s position, find it extremely reasonable and worth supporting without reserve –as I already told you.

        But. That’s still subscribed by N number of Palestinians –not a definite expression of the general will of the Palestinian people, something that which would be recognized by all or most as authoritative. It’s not helpful to pretend ignoring that. Look around in the various cases –we’ve had many in the last 70 years or so. Whatever is done, even with the best intentions, is still short of that authorization.

        The authors of the single-state proposal that included Abd Rabbo (it’s become impossible to find even recent articles that aren’t featured on the front page so I can’t quote verbatim) are the only ones acutely aware of the problem: they wrote that the question of deciding if local-born invaders are to be seen as locals or if the bestowing of Palestinian citizenship should be seen as a an act of generosity by the only owners of the country must still be tackled while developing the one state proposal.

        This is absolutely essential: recognizing a right or none to invaders offspring when there is no such right must be discussed, sure, but not as a right. Not because an expulsion would be some form of duress, or on any other grounds. For the Palestinians, the difference is from day to night. Questions of principle are not negligible for oppressed people.

        I keep bringing the reference to Algeria just for that reason. From the start, Algerian resistance offered future Algerian citizenship on an individual basis to all people born or even settled in the country provided they stiipulate exclusive loyalty to independent Algeria. The result is that most French left.

        Anyway, all this is because a program should be discussed –not because there is any likelihood of a peaceful end to it, pace Fincham, before the US Empire is wounded to death.

      • Talkback
        Talkback
        August 21, 2018, 6:28 am

        echi: “This is absolutely essential: recognizing a right or none to invaders offspring when there is no such right must be discussed, sure, but not as a right.”

        I agree. Otherwise a country could be legitimately colonized by ‘planting’ offspring.

        echi: “From the start, Algerian resistance offered future Algerian citizenship on an individual basis to all people born or even settled in the country provided they stiipulate exclusive loyalty to independent Algeria. The result is that most French left.”

        A secular one state democracy with minory rights was the original Palestinian proposal in 1947.

  8. DaBakr
    DaBakr
    August 19, 2018, 3:39 pm

    Arabs represent a healthy proportion of the middle east population, at some point the far left western ideology that the Palestinians are representative of an endangered minority will dissipate and there will be a peace of sorts. Bleeding heart far leftists will be marginalized and antiquated.

    • annie
      annie
      August 19, 2018, 3:46 pm

      at some point the far left western ideology that the Palestinians are representative of an endangered minority will dissipate and there will be a peace of sorts.

      ah yes, reminds me of The Young and Palestinians: https://mondoweiss.net/2013/06/the-young-palestinian/

      The old will be brutalized. They will bleed, they will scream, they will claw their fingernails into the bones of the land that we will steal from underneath their hands, and we will then break their arms. They will be displaced, forcefully removed from their land, thrown into camps as if they are lifeless animals. They will die, and the young will forget.

      It is the perfect crime. “The old will die and the young will forget,” said the first Israeli Prime Minister, David Ben-Gurion. The world may never know the truth because the memories will not last long enough to be attested and spread. Therefore, the oppressor will prevail, reaping off our continuous Nakba forever, slurping it up as if our demise is its nourishment.

      tell me dabkr, in your assessment will the notion Jews are an endangered minority also be fading into the past anytime soon or will you be clutching onto the status ad infinitum?

      • Maghlawatan
        Maghlawatan
        August 19, 2018, 4:45 pm

        Ben Gurion was wrong about the Palestinians. That quote is bullshit and why there is a Jewish minority in Shang Rémi la. Jews never ran a country and it really shows.

      • Nathan
        Nathan
        August 19, 2018, 9:16 pm

        Annie – Perhaps you know the source of the quote (“The old will die and the young will forget”) that appears in your entry? Was this a speech by Ben-Gurion, or does it appear in his memoirs? I see the quote quite often in anti-Israel articles all over the internet, but no one ever tells the reader where the quote is from. Moreover, no one says what was the context of this quote (if such a statement was ever made). I have a feeling that anti-Israel people are quoting each other, but please prove me wrong.

      • annie
        annie
        August 19, 2018, 9:55 pm

        at some point the far left western ideology that the Palestinians are representative of an endangered minority will dissipate …. Bleeding heart far leftists will be marginalized and antiquated.

        in your assessment will the notion Jews are an endangered minority also be fading into the past anytime soon or will you be clutching onto the status ad infinitum?

        nathan, after you address my question i will address yours.

      • wondering jew
        wondering jew
        August 20, 2018, 2:12 am

        The following article from ei asserts the fictitious (false) nature of the quote, despite its apparent consistency with BG’s thoughts and commands. https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/asa-winstanley/old-will-die-and-young-will-forget-did-ben-gurion-say-it

      • wondering jew
        wondering jew
        August 20, 2018, 2:28 am

        Although the passage of 73 years since the catastrophe in Europe is a relatively long time, (particularly to white Americans who have short memories and zero historic trauma), it is not a sufficient time to be invoking infinity, without discrediting the one who invokes it.

      • annie
        annie
        August 20, 2018, 3:35 am

        zero trauma? tell that to my mother who lost her brother in the war and her father who lost his only son.

      • RoHa
        RoHa
        August 20, 2018, 7:55 am

        Wrong sort of trauma, Annie. Doesn’t count. Nor does the trauma of the people of Europe and the people of North Africa and the Middle East whose countries were ravaged and shattered by the war. The trauma of the millions who fell into the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere is similarly unimportant. Only one trauma matters.

      • annie
        annie
        August 20, 2018, 9:49 am

        ei asserts the fictitious (false) nature of the quote

        ei did’t say anything about the “nature” of the quote being fictitious.

      • DaBakr
        DaBakr
        August 20, 2018, 10:17 am

        @an I didn’t say israelis, I said the far left so-called progressives will let go of their fixation. The palestinians that live in iIsrael or outside will be fine after a period. Some will remain Israelis while others will become citizens elsewhere. There will be compensation packets for laying down arms as well as minor concessions from each party.

      • wondering jew
        wondering jew
        August 20, 2018, 1:47 pm

        One essence of Israel is the army and a motto of sorts: Better to stand on one’s feet with a gun in the hand than face a firing squad with women and children for the crime of being Jewish.

        When the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor, Winston Churchill danced a jig in celebration of the fact that the US would now join the war effort and beat the Nazis, which is exactly what happened. Although the Soviet Union and its defeat in the Cold War needs serious mention in western history, the US defeat of the Axis powers from 1941 to 1945 was the most outstanding act by any country in the last 200 years and the family members of yours who gave their lives fighting for the cause of the defeat of the Axis must be honored and those who lost relatives suffered great trauma.

        I used to heckle the pro palestine “congregation” (demonstration) at east 14th street, manhattan, union square park between 2002 and 2006, saturdays between 3 and 4. And I once asked one of the participants, a white American, what was the greatest trauma that America had endured recently and he cited 9/11, which is fine and we can have a discussion and a few diversions, but seriously folks, if you are not a serious student of history, what are you doing here? if you’re an obfuscater, you’re doing a fine job. but if you come to clarify you’re doing a lousy job.

        unfortunately the israelis have ruled out real dialogue, and thus web blog “activists” with zero talent for diplomacy but unlimited talent for transgressive rhetoric and false quotes have the rule of the day. trump to the right and rabble to the left. so it goes.

      • oldgeezer
        oldgeezer
        August 20, 2018, 1:53 pm

        @yonah
        “the US defeat of the Axis powers from 1941 to 1945 was the most outstanding act by any country in the last 200 years ”

        “if you are not a serious student of history, what are you doing here? ”

        lol you had better ask yourself that question if you think that is an accurate portrait of WW II. You’re an ignoramus par excellence.

        “I used to heckle the pro palestine “congregation” (demonstration) at east 14th street, manhattan, union square park between 2002 and 2006, saturdays between 3 and 4. ”

        Yeah you found your calling in life.

      • annie
        annie
        August 20, 2018, 3:06 pm

        it’s seems fairly obvious you do not want to answer my question dabakr. hmm. interesting. i will repeat it one more time

        in your assessment will the notion Jews are an endangered minority also be fading into the past anytime soon or will you be clutching onto the status ad infinitum?

        just curious!

        yonah: And I once asked one of the participants, a white American, what was the greatest trauma that America had endured recently

        this reminds me of a tweet i saw today by a south african visiting sdarot and mentioning how much fear (traumatized!) the residents have there of being attacked by hamas. and he has a photograph of the tops of the houses all perfectly lined up. so i responded with a photo of Shijaiyah. i live in california where we have earthquakes. one is about as likely to die in one of our earthquakes as being hit by a hamas rocket. but somehow the fears of californian’s from the earthquakes doesn’t garner as much sympathy.

        these people who sit in lounge chairs drinking beers and eating popcorn watching israel massacre palestinians, how much fear do they have to live with?

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        August 20, 2018, 5:49 pm

        “zero trauma?”

        “Yonah” is talking about a special kind trauma, genetic trauma, inherited trauma. If you haven’t got the genes for it, you can’t feel it.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        August 20, 2018, 5:57 pm

        “I used to heckle the pro palestine “congregation” (demonstration) at east 14th street”

        Yup. You never tire of mentioning that, you big macher

        Didn’t you end up getting detained and sent to Bellevue for a 72 hr. psych eval? Sat in the rubber room and screamed “Anti-Semites! for the entire weekend.

      • Keith
        Keith
        August 20, 2018, 6:18 pm

        MOOSER- “Sat in the rubber room and screamed “Anti-Semites! for the entire weekend.”

        Except for the rubber room and restricting it to only the weekend, it sounds a lot like Hophmi.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        August 20, 2018, 6:24 pm

        ” trump to the right and rabble to the left. so it goes.”

        Poor “Yonah”. We are not worthy of him. If only we could rise to his level. I know I can’t. I don’t have the experience. I’ve never heckled churchgoers even once in my life.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        August 20, 2018, 7:23 pm

        “I once asked one of the participants, a white American, what was the greatest trauma that America had endured recently and he cited 9/11, which is fine and we can have a discussion and a few diversions, but seriously folks, if you are not a serious student of history, what are you doing here”

        You are so unfair, “Yonah”! You can’t expect a “white American” to be as smart or as informed as, as well, you know. Why don’t you pick on somebody in your own gene class?

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        August 20, 2018, 7:25 pm

        “and restricting it to only the weekend”

        IIRC, he got diverted to compulsory AA meetings for a while.

    • bcg
      bcg
      August 20, 2018, 10:15 am

      @DeBakr: So you know exactly how the future will play out. Why exactly are you debating the issue with people?

  9. Mooser
    Mooser
    August 19, 2018, 6:03 pm

    “the notion Jews are an endangered minority”

    I don’t think you will ever convince “DaBakr” of that, or “Yonah”, either. Zionism eliminated our endangered minority status.

  10. Maghlawatan
    Maghlawatan
    August 20, 2018, 7:18 am

    URI Avnery has died. Allah irhamu/R.I.P.
    He was part of the 1948 war but spent most of his later years trying to educate Jewish Israelis about the insanity of the Likud/settler worldview. Maybe if he had succeeded Israel could have survived indefinitely.

    • RoHa
      RoHa
      August 21, 2018, 12:45 am

      A loss. His writings were informed with his personal, first-hand knowledge of many of the key events and participants of the early years of Israel.

  11. lenny
    lenny
    August 22, 2018, 2:47 am

    Author says

    “Our goal is to topple the project of Occupation while allowing anyone born in Palestine to remain here based on equal human rights as citizens of a single state.”

    Sounds differant to the hamas charter .but it has a nice ring to it.

    ring a ding ding,ring ding.

    New one :A fishermsns lot

    In the hour before dawn we are a tyrants pawn
    A ticking clock as our mind races on
    This life we live a race never won
    The cards we are given the ones we are dealt
    The burning flame that we felt.
    We are slaves to our passion
    Addicted to our obsession
    Our debts never repaid
    As our lives slowly fade.

    So arise from your slumber sharpen your blade
    Into the battle must you wade
    Ships are sailing as you slip out to sea
    The blowing wind shall set you free
    Cast your nets there is a bounty to catch
    Pull them onboard then down the hatch.
    A fisherman has a perilous life
    For the sea can be a tempteous wife.

    In the hour before dusk
    a day sheds its husk
    Stars glow faintly in the coming night
    As the sun slips away from our sight
    The approaching storm lies straight ahead
    No sleep tonight in a welcoming bed
    All hands on deck the captain calls
    As we sail on into the howling squalls
    In the hour before dawn a calm returns
    Up ahead a guiding light burns
    A fishermans life is a perilous lot
    By his labour does he fill his pot.

Leave a Reply