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‘Broad’ post-Netanyahu coalition means, No Palestinians

Media Analysis
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There are glimmerings of light in the Israeli governing negotiations. Some commentators are dreaming of the collapse of Netanyahu’s defense line, the 55 legislators who have sworn to stick by him, due to recent setbacks: the prime minister’s pre-indictment hearing, his failure to form a government after two weeks, and rival Benny Gantz’s ability to hold the line against defectors.

Yossi Alpher at Peace Now imagines the ultra-orthodox in Netanyahu’s bloc– as many as 16 seats — coming over to a coalition with Gantz’s Blue and White party now that Yair Lapid, a secular leader in Blue White, has promised not to be prime minister in rotation.

Since Lapid is anathema to the ultra-Orthodox due to his insistence on reducing their religious privileges, this could help Gantz recruit one or both of the ultra-Orthodox parties to the coalition he will try to form. That would breach Gantz’s promise of a secular government but honor his pledge not to partner with Netanyahu.

Israel Policy Forum’s Abe Silberstein sees Blue and White “in government” soon— once Likud’s politicians mutiny against Netanyahu. They would replace Netanyahu with a “generic” member of his Likud party, such as Gideon Sa’ar, and it would be easy for Likud and Blue and White to make a majority governing coalition.

The path to a coalition government is thus already paved: a center-right “unity” government with Likud and Kachol Lavan [Blue and White] would have a parliamentary majority, perhaps bolstered by Yisrael Beteinu [Avigdor Lieberman’s party, with 8 seats] and what remains of the Labor Party [6 seat]. The lingering obstacle is Netanyahu

It’s worth restating that Israeli society only moved further right in this election. The ideological differences between Likud and Blue and White “are not nearly as wide as previous coalition government partnerships,” Silberstein says. The Jewish left has 11 seats at best, and that includes politicians who supported the decimation of Gaza.

Jeremy Ben-Ami of J Street acknowledged the reality last month:

While the positions of Blue and White on the Palestinian issue are still up in the air, any government that includes so many right-wing leaders and MKs is very unlikely to accept a move away from permanent occupation or toward a two-state solution.

It also needs to be repeated that this allegedly broad coalition will not include Palestinian partners. They’re not just left out, at a time when many have offered to support a centrist government. Everyone is running against Palestinians in the coalition talks. The kingmaker in the election, Avigdor Lieberman, is openly Arab-baiting. So is Likud, saying Lieberman refuses to say he will vote against a coalition based on Arab seats, not just seek to prevent such an outcome. Netanyahu has repeatedly warned, Blue and White will form a “dangerous government dependent on Arab parties.”

Rather than denounce Netanyahu for race-baiting, Blue and White has been determined to show it will not be dependent on Arab parties. Here is Moshe Ya’alon, a rightwing member of Blue and White, when asked a month ago, Will you have Arabs in your coalition?

We claim that the best coalition should consist of Blue and White and Likud. Yisrael Beteinu will come with us.

Translation: no Arabs. Yisrael Beteinu refuses to serve alongside Arabs governing partners. Ya’alon explained that a “broad” coalition means a Jewish one.

We claim that Israel should have been Jewish and democratic. Those who agree with us and will follow our proposals, plans, platforms, might be partners. We have our principles, and we call on all who are willing to join us on the basis of our principles to be part of a broad coalition.

So again, Palestinians simply don’t count. This commentary in a Zionist publication doesn’t even mention the Palestinian parties when it’s considering all the puzzle pieces.

The next government is going to be more rightwing on Gaza too.

Avigdor Lieberman says that as part of his coalition negotiations he is seeking a “solution” to Gaza. Those words surely scare Palestinians. Moshe Ya’alon echoed that, speaking to 124 a month ago: Netanyahu has refused to do any escalation in Gaza for political reasons. Netanyahu has been “restrained” since spring 2018. “We are going to change it.” How? Ya’alon calls for targeted assassinations.

Hawkishness is trending in Israel. Here in the same vein is Yossi Alpher of Peace Now saying that Netanyahu’s political selfishness is undermining security, because the political chaos is encouraging Iran, and it may well attack Israel. And Israel will be all alone. “Israeli civilian rear and infrastructure could suffer truly serious casualties. Israel’s anti-missile defense systems could be overwhelmed.”

Update: Palestinian parties feature in this analysis of Israeli coalition building by Eli Kowaz, but as a bargaining chip. An implicit threat by the left to include Arab parties in the voting support for a governing coalition would cause Likud members to defect from Netanyahu at last so as to block such a possibility.

Philip Weiss

Philip Weiss is senior editor of Mondoweiss.net and founded the site in 2005-06.

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56 Responses

  1. JLewisDickerson on October 10, 2019, 1:14 pm

    RE: Avigdor Lieberman says that as part of his coalition negotiations he is seeking a “solution” to Gaza. Those words surely scare Palestinians. Moshe Ya’alon echoed that, speaking to 124 a month ago: Netanyahu has refused to do any escalation in Gaza for political reasons. Netanyahu has been “restrained” since spring 2018. “We are going to change it.” How? Ya’alon calls for targeted assassinations. ~ Weiss

    THE ‘ULTIMATE DEAL’:

    A leaked document of “main points” from the Trump administration’s so-called “deal of the century” was published today by Yisrael Hayom . . .
    . . . If the PLO accepts the plan and Hamas or Islamic Jihad in Gaza reject it, the document warns “the U.S. will back Israel to personally harm leaders of Hamas and Islamic Jihad” in a future escalation, and will hold Hamas’ leadership “responsible in another round of violence between Israel and Hamas.” . . .

    SOURCE – https://mondoweiss.net/2019/05/demilitarized-palestine-palestinians/

  2. wondering jew on October 10, 2019, 3:24 pm

    A “security” attitude vis a vis Iran, should not be confused with an “assassination” policy in Gaza. Iran (see Thomas Friedman) recently attacked Saudi oil fields with sophisticated drones and this must of necessity lead to all enemies of Iran to fear. Regarding Gaza, the goal of defeating Hamas is IMO not in the realm of likelihood and the policy of assassination is just a further attempt at defeating Hamas, which I regard as outside the realm of possibility.

    To call both attitudes hawkishness is to adopt a kumbaya attitude. Gaza is the home of refugees and under siege for over a decade and a solution that does not resort to violence is rather clear (see Gershon Baskin). Iran is a sworn enemy of Israel for a variety of reasons and has recently shown its intention to push things to the limit because Trump has shown he can be pushed around (by everyone but the US Congress and the US constitution.) To confuse realistic hawkishness with unrealistic hawkishness reveals an attitude without nuance, not useful to anything but propaganda advocates.

    • Mooser on October 10, 2019, 4:48 pm

      “and the policy of assassination is just a further attempt at defeating Hamas” “wj”

      Just another tool in the arsenal of Jewish democracy.

    • RoHa on October 10, 2019, 10:21 pm

      “Iran (see Thomas Friedman) recently attacked Saudi oil fields with sophisticated drones …”

      I’m sure you have good reason to believe that.

      I can only see that the Houthi said they did it with the help of Saudi people. We know the Houthi have drones, we know they use them to attack Saudi targets, and if they have inside help, it seems quite possible for them to sneak them into SA and send them off from somewhere fairly close to the target .

      And I notice that the people claiming Iran did it have a shaky record for trustworthiness.

      • RoHa on October 11, 2019, 1:12 am

        Too many pronouns. Sorry.

      • Mooser on October 15, 2019, 7:02 pm

        Well, I guess Saudi Arabia will have access to the most advanced drones, and their operators and technicians, parts and updates. The US military is for sale.

    • Misterioso on October 11, 2019, 10:57 am

      @wondering Jew

      In short, Iran has checkmated the U.S. and Israel.

    • punterweger on October 11, 2019, 2:23 pm

      @wondering jew – Isn’t Thomas Friedman the famous New York Times columnist, who wrote a major piece praising the Saudi Crown Prince as a great modernizer shortly before it came out that he had ordered the Kashoggi murder? Great sources you have!

    • Rob Roy on October 12, 2019, 7:44 pm

      wj, Anything Thomas Friedman says is suspect. He slants whatever he writes to favor Israel.

      Remember the NYT accepts only writers who 1) support Israel, 2) praise Israel, 3) hate Iran (who has never attacked anyone), 4) hate Russia (even though it’s no longer a soviet country and has NATO weapons shoved up against its borders).

      Iran is NOT Israel’s “sworn enemy.” Only Israel says that; Iran doesn’t say that. There are no “variety of reasons.”

      Where DO you get your information. Iran did not attack the Saudi oil fields. It doesn’t attack others. HAVEN’T YOU NOTICED? That’s what the US and Israel does. Why did the MSM in the US ignore the Houthis who said they were the ones who attacked, NOT Iran. You will notice the US and UK decide instantly that Iran did it or Russia did it, whatever it is. Doesn’t matter who says otherwise or facts prove otherwise. It’s ugly.

      And what on earth is “realistic hawkishness?”

      The world’s worst country is the USA, the second, though it tries hard to be number one, is Israel.

      Where are the people of Israel that they put up with their dreadful leaders? Or do they agree with them?

  3. Mayhem on October 10, 2019, 6:39 pm

    As long as Palestinians cannot see their way to serve in the IDF and accept Israel as being fundamentally a Jewish state, unlike the Druze and the Bedouin, they cannot expect to be given the special benefit of serving in a ruling capacity in an Israeli government. They have a participatory representative role which is compatible with their willing level of involvement in Israeli society.

    • Talkback on October 11, 2019, 3:45 am

      Shorter. The Palestinians have to be willing to violently enforce Jewish supremacy against themselves to be allowed to politically subjugate to it, too.

    • Misterioso on October 11, 2019, 10:49 am

      @Mayhem

      In short, before they are accepted as equals with full democratic rights, you expect indigenous Palestinians to join with Zionist Jews of foreign origin and violently suppress, imprison, torture and dispossess their fellow indigenous Palestinians. It ain’t gonna happen. Nor, to state the obvious, should it.

      You also seem to be unaware of the blatant discrimination and oppression indigenous Palestinians west of the green line already endure under the vicious boot of Zionism.

      Here’s just a few examples:

      “Former Foreign Ministry director-general invokes South Africa comparisons. ‘Joint Israel-West Bank’ reality is an apartheid state”
      EXCERPT: “Similarities between the ‘original apartheid’ as it was practiced in South Africa and the situation in ISRAEL [my emphasis] and the West Bank today ‘scream to the heavens,’ added [Alon] Liel, who was Israel’s ambassador in Pretoria from 1992 to 1994. There can be little doubt that the suffering of Palestinians is not less intense than that of blacks during apartheid-era South Africa, he asserted.” (Times of Israel, February 21, 2013)

      Video: Israeli TV Host Implores Israelis: Wake Up and Smell the Apartheid
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyyUvxHLYr4

      In its 2015 Country Report on Human Rights Practices for Israel and the occupied Palestinian territories, issued in 2016,the U.S. Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights and Labor acknowledges the “institutional and societal discrimination against Arab citizens of Israel.” (U.S. Department of State, Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights and Labor)

      “Construction, Not Destruction”
      “While Israeli Arabs constitute 20 percent of the population, Arab communities’ jurisdictions occupy just 2.5 percent of the state’s land area, and the process of approving new construction in Arab towns takes decades.” (Haaretz Editorial, April 4, 2017)

      Video: Israeli TV Host Implores Israelis: Wake Up and Smell the Apartheid
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyyUvxHLYr4

      In its 2015 Country Report on Human Rights Practices for Israel and the occupied Palestinian territories, issued in 2016,the U.S. Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights and Labor acknowledges the “institutional and societal discrimination against Arab citizens of Israel.” (U.S. Department of State, Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights and Labor)

      “Construction, Not Destruction”

      “While Israeli Arabs constitute 20 percent of the population, Arab communities’ jurisdictions occupy just 2.5 percent of the state’s land area, and the process of approving new construction in Arab towns takes decades.” (Haaretz Editorial, April 4, 2017)

      Also, some relevant words of wisdom well worth noting:
      Jan 19, 2018 – Haaretz

      Opinion: “In Israel, Growing Fascism and a Racism Akin to Early Nazism” by Zeev Sternhell.**

      EXCERPT:
      “I frequently ask myself how a historian in 50 or 100 years will interpret our period. When, he will ask, did people in Israel start to realize that the state that was established in the War of Independence, on the ruins of European Jewry and at the cost of the blood of combatants some of whom were Holocaust survivors, had devolved into a true monstrosity for its non-Jewish inhabitants. When did some Israelis understand that their cruelty and ability to bully others, Palestinians or Africans, began eroding the moral legitimacy of their existence as a sovereign entity?”

      **Zeev Sternhell is a Polish-born Israeli historian, political scientist, commentator on the Israeli–Palestinian conflict, and writer. He is one of the world’s leading experts on fascism. Sternhell headed the Department of Political Science at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem.

      • fishbiol on October 11, 2019, 6:46 pm

        As usual, excellent factual points.

    • eljay on October 11, 2019, 12:56 pm

      || Mayhem: As long as Palestinians cannot see their way to … accept Israel as being fundamentally a Jewish state – they cannot expect to be given the special benefit of serving in a ruling capacity in an Israeli government. … ||

      So…an Israeli citizen’s right to participate in his country’s decision-making process:
      – is not based on the fact that he is an Israeli citizen like any other Israeli citizen; but, instead,
      – is based on the fact that despite not being Jewish he has accepted but the supremacist nature of his state and his second-class-citizen status within it.

      Huh.

      Not quite “moral beacon” and “light unto the nations”, but perhaps not as bad as Saudi Arabia, Mali, African “hellholes”, etc.

    • bcg on October 11, 2019, 1:56 pm

      @Mayhem: What does it mean, specifically, to be a “fundamentally Jewish state”?

      Palestinians-Israelis make up 20% of Israel’s population. Are you saying they have less rights than Jewish Israelis?

    • Rob Roy on October 12, 2019, 7:53 pm

      Mayhem….willing to be slaves, lie down and be trampled to death? Willing to pretend to be “Jewish” to survive? The Israels STOLE their country, Palestine. There is no Israel.

  4. fishbiol on October 11, 2019, 6:46 pm

    bcg,

    Definitely. There are 45 or so laws that treat Israel Arab citizens differently that Israeli Jewish citizens. They are even subject to different court systems – military courts for the Arabs, civilian courts for the Jews. To help everyone relate to this, suppose in the United States the Jews were the Protestants and the Arabs were the Catholics. In all the media stories replace the words “jew” an “jewish” with Protestant and replace the word “Arab” with “Catholic”. The situation would not last a day in the United States.

    • mondonut on October 11, 2019, 9:16 pm

      @fishbiol There are 45 or so laws that treat Israel Arab citizens differently that Israeli Jewish citizens. They are even subject to different court systems – military courts for the Arabs, civilian courts for the Jews.

      What a sloppy lie, you are not even trying to give it a patina of truth. The Israeli court system is for all Israelis. Military courts are present in Areas B&C for non-Israeli residents, Area A residents are largely subject to the Palestinian courts.

      • Talkback on October 12, 2019, 3:17 am

        mondonut: “Military courts are present in Areas B&C for non-Israeli residents, Area A residents are largely subject to the Palestinian courts.”

        What a sloppy lie, you are not even trying to give it a patina of truth. Every Nonjew living in occupied Palestine is ultimately subject to Israel’s military law contrary to all the Jews who live there and who are all illegal immigrants.

        And to make it clear:
        “Adalah’s Discriminatory Laws Database (DLD) is an online resource comprising a list of over 65 Israeli laws that discriminate directly or indirectly against Palestinian citizens in Israel and/or Palestinian residents of the Occupied Palestinian Territory (OPT) on the basis of their national belonging. The discrimination in these laws is either explicit – “discrimination on its face” – or, more often, the laws are worded in a seemingly neutral manner, but have or will likely have a disparate impact on Palestinians in their implementation.

        These laws limit the rights of Palestinians in all areas of life, from citizenship rights to the right to political participation, land and housing rights, education rights, cultural and language rights, religious rights, and due process rights during detention. Some of the laws also discriminate against other groups such as gays, non-religious Jews, and Palestinian refugees.”
        https://www.adalah.org/en/content/view/7771

      • Peacefan on October 12, 2019, 6:19 am

        True, the Israeli court system in Israel is the same in principle, however does discriminate against Israeli arab citizens with +50 laws, see https://www.adalah.org/en/law/index .As for the occupied Palestinian territories, Israel doesn’t really care much about area A, B or C when they decide to conduct an operation. “Military courts are present in Areas B&C for non-Israeli residents” , areas B&C are NOT in Israel, what are they courts doing there to start with?

  5. m1945 on October 11, 2019, 7:25 pm

    Arab-Israeli don’t want to be in the coalition because they don’t want to be blamed for killing their cousins if there’s another war.

  6. m1945 on October 11, 2019, 7:27 pm

    Israel was ranked 30 out of 167 on The Economist’s Democracy Index. That’s better than Greece, Cyprus & at least a dozen other European countries.

    Israel has maintained democracy even though Israel has been under continual attack. By contrast, we Americans locked American citizens of Japanese descent in concentration camps during world war 2 & we confiscated Joe DiMaggio’s father’s fishing boat because he was of Italian descent.

    • eljay on October 11, 2019, 8:55 pm

      || m1945: … Israel has maintained democracy even though Israel has been under continual attack. … ||

      Israel has also maintained deliberate and unapologetic colonialism, (war) criminality and religion-based supremacism even though Israel has been under continual attack.

      • m1945 on October 12, 2019, 2:20 pm

        eljay
        Please explain colonialism.

        Colonel Richard Kemp, former commander of British troops in Afghanistan, has repeatedly commented that, “during its operation in Gaza, the Israeli Defence Forces did more to safeguard the rights of civilians in a combat zone than any other army in the history of warfare.” Furthermore, he points out that the steps taken in that conflict by the Israeli Defence Forces to avoid civilian deaths are shown by a study published by the United Nations to have resulted in, by far, the lowest 18of civilian to combatant deaths in any asymmetric conflict in the history of warfare. Kemp explains that by UN estimates, the average ratio of civilian to combatant deaths in such conflicts worldwide is 3:1 — three civilians for every combatant killed. That is the estimated ratio in Afghanistan. But in Iraq, and in Kosovo, it was worse: the ratio is believed to have been 4:1. Anecdotal evidence suggests the ratios were very much higher in Chechnya and Serbia. In Gaza, it was less than one-to-one.

        Palestinians fire unguided rockets at Israeli population centers – a crime against humanity.
        Palestinians set Israeli crops on fire – a war crime.

        Should we Americans set a good example of equality by abolishing Affirmative Action which discriminates by race, ethnicity & gender?

      • eljay on October 12, 2019, 5:54 pm

        || m1945: eljay
        Please explain colonialism. … ||

        You’re a Zionist – you know full well what it means because it’s part and parcel of your hateful and immoral ideology.

        But just to humour you:

        colonialism:
        1. the control or governing influence of a nation over a dependent country, territory, or people.
        2. the system or policy by which a nation maintains or advocates such control or influence.

        || … Should we Americans set a good example of equality by abolishing Affirmative Action which discriminates by race, ethnicity & gender? ||

        Yes.

      • Mooser on October 12, 2019, 8:30 pm

        “Yes.”

        Really, “eljay”? You are embracing the ‘zero-sum equation’ for rights and reparations?

        “Affirmative Action which discriminates by race, ethnicity & gender?”

        Because if somebody gets something through Affirmative Action, it means they took it away from you?

      • Keith on October 13, 2019, 12:41 am

        MOOSER- “Really, “eljay”? You are embracing the ‘zero-sum equation’ for rights and reparations?”

        Some folks refer to affirmative action as reverse discrimination. Of course they are right. That is the intent! In labor law, the remedy for discrimination is to make the person who was deprived whole. If discrimination has unbalanced the level playing field (who can in good conscience dispute this?), then we need to apply reverse discrimination until the playing field is once again level. I fully support this. The US today remains a white supremecist, racist society. Failure to perceive this is evidence of extreme bias and/or stupidity. In today’s world, the Ashkenazi are the white man’s white man. Gilded victimhood, says I.

        One other thing, I am sick and tired of this “less qualified” bullshit. Who determines the qualifications? Who guarantees equal access to these “qualifications?” In days of old, the nobility could claim “superior” qualifications to rule. God forbid we should educate the peasants! Only racists believe that other races/groups are inherently inferior. To avoid birthright social class stratification, affirmative action (in the fullest sense of the term) is essential. That should be obvious except to those with asses to protect.

      • eljay on October 13, 2019, 8:12 am

        || Mooser: “Yes.”?

        Really, “eljay”? … ||

        affirmative action: (in the context of the allocation of resources or employment) the practice or policy of favouring individuals belonging to groups known to have been discriminated against previously; positive discrimination.

        Yup.

        || … You are embracing the ‘zero-sum equation’ for rights and reparations? … ||

        Nope. I’m in favour of equality for all and reparations for those who are entitled to them.

        || … Because if somebody gets something through Affirmative Action, it means they took it away from you? ||

        Nope. But it might mean that s/he got something s/he did not deserve. I don’t see anything wrong with the ideals of equality and merit.

      • Mooser on October 13, 2019, 11:52 am

        “Nope. But it might mean that s/he got something s/he did not deserve.”

        Oh, I see. The fact that people didn’t get what they deserved (consideration for a position or school let’s say) because of discrimination means they didn’t deserve it in the first place.
        Ho-kay.
        Does the same logic apply to rights? Those that haven’t had rights, should not receive affirmative action towards getting rights, because if they didn’t have them, they don’t deserve them.

        Doesn’t look good for those poor ladies tied up in the rapist’s basement, does it? If they are in that situation, they don’t deserve any help?

      • Mooser on October 13, 2019, 12:05 pm

        ” I fully support this.”

        Right on!

        “Some folks refer to affirmative action as reverse discrimination.”

        Rights and opportunity are not a zero-sum game. Everybody wins.

      • eljay on October 13, 2019, 11:20 pm

        || Mooser: … Oh, I see. The fact that people didn’t get what they deserved (consideration for a position or school let’s say) because of discrimination means they didn’t deserve it in the first place. … ||

        Dude, I seriously do not want to be on the “wrong side” of you but I didn’t say or imply – and I know that you know that I didn’t say or imply – that people who “didn’t get what they deserved because of discrimination means they didn’t deserve it in the first place”.

        But maybe you think that “the Jews” deserve a religion-supremacist state because they “didn’t get what they deserved because of discrimination”. But I’m pretty sure that you don’t.

        || … Does the same logic apply to rights? Those that haven’t had rights, should not receive affirmative action towards getting rights, because if they didn’t have them, they don’t deserve them. … ||

        Where have I stated that people who haven’t had rights shouldn’t receive them because they don’t deserve them? Please do tell.

        || … Doesn’t look good for those poor ladies tied up in the rapist’s basement, does it? … ||

        Why doesn’t it look good? I think those poor ladies are entitled to justice and accountability and equality. Do you think they aren’t, or are you suggesting that their victimhood isn’t addressed until every woman – regardless of how well or poorly her life has progressed – has been compensated for the suffering “those poor ladies” have experienced?

      • Keith on October 14, 2019, 12:44 am

        MOOSER- “Rights and opportunity are not a zero-sum game. Everybody wins.”

        Society wins even as the elites mourn their loss of privilege.

      • Mooser on October 14, 2019, 2:56 pm

        “Should we Americans set a good example of equality by abolishing Affirmative Action which discriminates by race, ethnicity & gender?” ” m1945″

        That’s the way the matzoh crumbles, sometimes…

      • oldgeezer on October 14, 2019, 10:03 pm

        @m1945

        lol spare us the bs. Kemp is a diehard zionist who has his own disgraces on record. His words are meaningless in light of that and more particularly in light he has never actually justified his remarks in any way. It’s pure bs like all Hasbara.

        Also @m1945
        “Should we Americans set a good example of equality by abolishing Affirmative Action which discriminates by race, ethnicity & gender?”

        More bs. Affirmative action is not so much discrimination as a very ineffective attempt to undo the injustices of hundreds of years of discrimination. Ineffective as the racism is still present, systematic and systemic. Yes the poor impoverished and put on white men, including white Jews. Again spare us the bs,

    • Talkback on October 12, 2019, 3:04 am

      m1945: “Israel was ranked 30 out of 167 on The Economist’s Democracy Index. That’s better than Greece, Cyprus & at least a dozen other European countries.”

      Which is puzzling since the other states do not have to keep people expelled to manipulate their elections. Which is btw. full bore Apartheid.

      m1945: “… Israel has been under continual attack.”

      Israel’s establishment was and existence has been a continual attack on those who were citizens of Palestine in 1948.

      • m1945 on October 12, 2019, 2:36 pm

        Talkback

        There are almost 70 million people who can’t return to their country.

        There’s a conflict of rights. Palestinians don’t have the right of return. But even if the Palestinians do have the right of return (although they deny the Jews the right of return) that right conflicts with the Israelis’ right to life (UN Declaration of Human Rights) which would be endangered by the return of the Palestinians who had been murdering the Jews. The right to life is more important than the right of return.

  7. m1945 on October 11, 2019, 7:29 pm

    Many Arabs identify their origins by their family names. Here are some of the most common family names among the “Palestinians”:
    “Masri” = from Egypt-Hamas member of Parliament, Mushir al-Masri (the word “masri” literally means “the Egyptian” in arabic !).
    “Khamis”= Bahrain “Salem Hanna Khamis” “al-Faruqi”= Mosul, Iraq
    “al-Araj” = Morocco, a member of the Saadi Dynasty “Hussein al-Araj”
    “al Lubnani” = the Lebanese
    “al-Mughrabi” = the Moroccan (Maghreb” – meaning “West” in Arabic, and usually referring to North Africa or specifically to Morocco)
    “al-Djazair” = the Algerian
    “al-Yamani” = the Yemeni “Issam Al Yamani”
    “al-Afghani” = the Afghan
    “al-Hindi” = the Indian “Amin al-Hindi”
    “Iraqi” = from Iraq.
    “halabi” = from Aleppo, Syria
    “El Baghdadi” = from Baghdad Iraq.
    “Tarabulsi”= Tarabulus-Tripoli, Lebanon.
    “Hourani” = Houran Syria.
    “al-Husayni” = Saudi Arabia.
    “Saudi” = Saudi Arabia.
    “Metzarwah”= Egypt.
    “Barda—wil” = “Salah Bardawil” HAMAS legislator in Gaza; Egypt, Bardawil Lake area.
    “Nashashibi” = Syria.
    “Bushnak” = Bosnia
    “zoabi”= from Iraq: “Haneen Zoabi”.
    “Turki” = Turkey “Daud Turki”
    “al-Kurd” = Kurdistan.
    “Haddadins” = YEMEN descended from Ghassanid Christian Arabs.
    “Arab Abu-Kishk” = Egypt.(Bedouins)
    “Arab al shakirat” = Egypt (Bedouins)
    “Arab al zabidat” = Egypt (Bedouins)
    “Arab al aramsha” = Egypt (Bedouins)
    “Abu Sitta” = In Arabic’ Abu means father and sitta means six. Translated it actually means father of six. (The Abu Sitta family primarily received this name because around the year 1700, a well known knight of the large Al-Tarabeen tribe always had six slaves (i.e. fedawyah, bodyguards), 3 on each side, with him. They were with him wherever he went, day or night. Hence the name “ABU SITTA.” = Egypt (Bedouins) “Salman Abu Sitta “.)
    Even Yasser Arafat, the most famous “Palestinian” and leader of the P.L.O terrorist organization, was not native to Judea. He called himself a “Palestinian refugee” but spoke Arabic with an Egyptian accent. He was born in 1929 Cairo, Egypt. He served in the Egyptian army, studied in the University of Cairo, and lived in Cairo until 1956! His full name was Mohammed Abdel Rahman Abdel Raouf Arafat al-Qudwa al-Husseini. “Al-Qudwa” tribe origin?
    Yasser Arafat also proudly stated in his authorized biography that, “If there is any such thing as a Palestinian people, it is I, Yasser Arafat, who created them.”

    If Palestinians are indigenous, why did the UN put a 2-year residency required in Palestine to be considered a Palestinian refugee?

    • eljay on October 11, 2019, 9:30 pm

      || m1945: … Even Yasser Arafat … was not native to Judea. …

      If Palestinians are indigenous, why did the UN put a 2-year residency required in Palestine to be considered a Palestinian refugee? ||

      The people living in and up to n-generations removed from a geographic region – in this case, geographic Palestine – are indigenous to the region. Very obviously that includes refugees and emigrants and excludes citizens of homelands throughout the world who – having chosen to embrace the religion-based identity of Jewish – consider themselves to be 2000-year-removed “exiles” or “Ancient Israelites”.

      So I agree with you 100% that both the right of return to and preferred immigration status to all parts of geographic Palestine belong to its indigenous people.

    • RoHa on October 12, 2019, 2:09 am

      It looks as though people from lots of places migrated into Palestine and became part of the local society without causing any trouble.

      But the Zionist European Jews did not want to become part of the society, and did want to cause trouble.

    • Talkback on October 12, 2019, 3:00 am

      m1945: “Even Yasser Arafat, the most famous “Palestinian” and leader of the P.L.O terrorist organization, was not native to Judea.”

      His parents were from Gaza and Jerusalem. That’s far more than the majority of Jews can claim or the leaders of Jewish terrorist organisations Irgun, Lehi, Palmach and Hagana, etc. who later became ministers and even prime ministers.

      How many Jews who signed Israel’s declaration of independence were born in Palestine or had Palestinian parents? Even Ben Gurion who came as a tourist illegally overstayed after his visa ran out.

      m1945: “If Palestinians are indigenous, why did the UN put a 2-year residency required in Palestine to be considered a Palestinian refugee?”

      To rule out those who legally or illegaly came to Palestine after 1946. That does include Jews. Everyone in Palestine before 1948 was a Palestinian. “Palestinian” is a citizenship/nationality/constitutive people. Unlike “Jews” a term which is not even legally defined in the “Jewish state” which is another term that is not legally defined.

    • Mooser on October 12, 2019, 8:32 pm

      “Many Arabs identify their origins by their family names.”

      And you can tell by the names that Zionists adopted they are all directly descended from the ancient Hebrews.

    • echinococcus on October 12, 2019, 11:07 pm

      Sure. sure.

      Unlike authentic Judeans like Krakauer, Berliner, Wiener, Strassburger, Galitzin, Toledo, Mitrani, Viterbo, Kishinevsky, Litvak, Axiotis, Bukhary, Deutscher… I can easily line up 3 or 4,000 true Judean-origin names like that without even looking them up.

      It’s a hard job to be as ludicrous as the Zionists…

  8. Mayhem on October 11, 2019, 9:43 pm

    @Misterioso, if it is so bad under the boot of Zionism as you put it then why do the majority of Palestinians want to live under Israeli rule than under their own leaders in Gaza or the West Bank?

    • Talkback on October 12, 2019, 2:35 am

      Mayhem: “why do the majority of Palestinians want to live under Israeli rule”

      That’s a lie.

      “than under their own leaders in Gaza or the West Bank?”

      Which means under Israeli occupation and blockade. Getting bombarded, sniipered, injured, kidnapped, tortured, put in prolonged administrative detention, getting their house demolished, getting dispossessed, disenfranchised, expelled and being the target of weapon and munition experiments. And that’s only a small part of being a Nonjew under the the rule of a “Jewish democracy”.

      So what would you choose? Being treated at least like a second class citizen on the one hand or even much worse on the other?

      • m1945 on October 12, 2019, 2:48 pm

        In 1948, Palestinians could have declared independence. Instead, they asked for union with Jordan so when Jordanians were attacking Israel it was also Palestinians attacking Israel. The IDF had to go into West Bank to silence the guns. That’s how the occupation began.

        Unlike other occupiers (China, Russia, Morocco, Turkey) Israel offered to end the occupation in return for a peace treaty. Israel is still waiting.

        The occupation is necessary to prevent Palestinians from murdering Jews. If Palestinians were willing to live in peace with Israelis, the occupation wouldn’t be necessary.
        If Israel were to end the occupation of the West Bank today, Palestinians would fire rockets & mortars from the West Bank just as Palestinians fired rockets & mortars from Gaza after Israel pulled out of Gaza.

        How is life for Israel’s Arab minority? Khaled Abu Toameh, the Arab journalist who reports for the Jerusalem Post, U.S. News & World Report and NBC News, talking about life for Arab Israelis: “Israel is a wonderful place to live … a free and open country.”

        Arab women in Israel live longer than Arab women in any Arab country.
        Study: Israeli Arabs Have Highest Life Expectancy in Muslim World
        http://www.thetower.org/5791-study-israeli-arabs-have-highest-life-expectancy-in-muslim-world/

        Arab babies in Israel have lower infant mortality than Arab babies in any Arab country.

        Hadassah University Medical Center in Israel established a registry for Arab donors of bone marrow and stem cells to facilitate life-saving transplants. The registry at Hadassah Hospital is the only one in the world for Arabs and will no doubt save the lives not only of Arab Israelis but also of some citizens of Arab countries, not a single one of which has a registry of its own.

  9. Peacefan on October 12, 2019, 6:27 am

    Mayhem, because they don’t want to have to be force out of their home I suppose. Unless of course you suggest that leaders in Gaza or the West Bank be given political power in Israel, somehow I doubt that.

    • eljay on October 12, 2019, 1:06 pm

      || Peacefan: Mayhem, because they don’t want to have to be force out of their home I suppose. … ||

      Mayhem failed to grasp the obvious because as a Jewish / “Jewish State” supremacist (Zionist) he believes:
      – not that Israel should be the secular and democratic state of and for all of its citizens, immigrants, expats and refugees, equally; but, rather,
      – that non-Jewish Israelis (lovingly labelled a “demographic threat” by Zionists) belong elsewhere.

  10. m1945 on October 13, 2019, 10:41 am

    Keith
    Arabs including Palestinians oppressed Jews for centuries. Do you favor Affirmative Action for Jews in Israel?

    In 1839 (First Zionists not till 1882) the British consul, William Young, said that the poor Jew in Jerusalem…lives from day to day in terror of his life….Young attributed the plight of the Jew in Jerusalem to “the blind hatred and ignorant prejudice of a fanatical populace.”

    JEWS IN JERUSALEM.
    New York Times December 29, 1878
    Crowded together in the worst lodgings, or in the dark cellars under a synagogue building, without food, fuel, or water –even water at Jerusalem being a commodity of price – numbers died of starvation and various diseases, while others went raving mad. Those who could labor were denied employment by the bigotry of the Mussulmans and of the Oriental Christians.

    • Keith on October 13, 2019, 9:37 pm

      M1945- “Arabs including Palestinians oppressed Jews for centuries.”

      That is Zionist myth history, nothing more. The status of Jews varied over time depending upon circumstances. On balance, Jews were always relatively privileged compared to the surrounding peasantry. As such, affirmative action would usually affect Jews adversely. In fact, Benjamin Ginsberg argues that disproportionate Jewish power is a significant contributor to anti-Semitism.

      “During the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries, Jews came to play a major role in the fiscal affairs and administration of the Ottoman empire.
      ….
      Jews dominated the imperial revenue system, serving as tax collectors, tax farmers, tax intendants, and tax inspectors. Jews also created and operated the imperial customs service. Indeed, so complete was Jewish control over this segment of the Ottoman state that Ottoman customs receipts were typically written in Hebrew.”
      (p15, “The Fatal Embrace: Jews and the State,” Benjamin Ginsberg)

      • MHughes976 on October 14, 2019, 12:37 pm

        And even were it true that some people who were Jewish were badly treated by some who were ‘Arab’ it wouldn’t be right to pay out those of Arab descent for ever, never giving them their normal human rights. The idea of human rights depends on not differentiating between people because of things out of individual control.

      • m1945 on October 14, 2019, 2:43 pm

        Keith
        Jews were not treated so well by Arabs in the seventeenth, eighteenth & nineteenth centuries.

        Libya in 1785, where Ali Burzi Pasha murdered hundreds of Jews; Algiers, where Jews were massacred in 1805, 1815 and 1830; and Marrakesh, Morocco, where more than 300 Jews were murdered between 1864 and 1880.21

        Decrees ordering the destruction of synagogues were enacted in Yemen (1676). Despite the Koran’s prohibition, Jews were forced to convert to Islam or face death in Yemen 1678 & Morocco 1790-92.

        The situation of Jews in Arab lands reached a low point in the 19th century. Jews in most of North Africa (including Algeria, Tunisia, Egypt, Libya and Morocco) were forced to live in ghettos. In Morocco, which contained the largest Jewish community in the Islamic Diaspora, Jews were made to walk barefoot or wear shoes of straw when outside the ghetto. Even Muslim children participated in the degradation of Jews, by throwing stones at them or harassing them in other ways. The frequency of anti-Jewish violence increased, and many Jews were executed on charges of apostasy. Ritual murder accusations against the Jews became commonplace in the Ottoman Empire.

      • Keith on October 15, 2019, 2:29 pm

        M1945- “Jews were not treated so well by Arabs in the seventeenth, eighteenth & nineteenth centuries.”

        According to you Zionists, Gentiles have never treated Jews fairly any place any time. Do you have any links or references to your latest litany of never ending woe? Jews seem to be doing quite nicely now, however, wouldn’t you agree? When and how did this come about?

        As far as Zionist myth-history goes, it is filled with lies, deception and bias: a land without people for a people without land, in 1948 the Arab Palestinians were told to flee so that the Arab hordes could slaughter the Jews, etc. Israel Shahak accurately sums up the situation in a book I highly recommend.

        “All modern studies on Judaism, particularly by Jews, have evolved from that conflict, and to this day they bear the unmistakable marks of their origin: deception, apologetics or hostile polemics, indifference or even active hostility to the pursuit of truth. Almost all the so-called Jewish studies in Judaism, from that time to this very day, are polemics against an external enemy rather than an internal debate.” (p22, “Jewish History, Jewish Religion: The Weight of Three Thousand Years,” Israel Shahak)

  11. m1945 on October 15, 2019, 2:13 pm

    oldgezzer

    I suggest that you look at photos of the destruction in Gaza. No one in those buildings could have survived. 250,000 Palestinians were left homeless, but alive because they had been warned that their homes would be bombed & they should leave.

    “Affirmative action is not so much discrimination”
    Giving preference to people based on race, ethnicity or gender is discrimination.
    Should Affirmative Action be abolished?

    • Mooser on October 15, 2019, 6:48 pm

      “Giving preference to people based on race, ethnicity or gender is discrimination.”

      And look how much Affirmative Action has robbed from US Jews, in our struggle to overcome our oppression!

      After all, the Jews are a historically repressed minority in the US. Pres. George Washington, in a scathing letter to the Touro Synagogue, said Jewish separatism would not be tolerated, and Jews in the US could not obey their traditional leaders! We were to be permanently mired in the pale of equality and enforced inclusion.

      “I suggest that you look at photos of the destruction in Gaza. No one in those buildings could have survived. 250,000 Palestinians were left homeless, but alive because they had been warned that their homes would be bombed & they should leave.”

      A real moral philosopher, this one.

  12. jon s on October 21, 2019, 3:29 pm

    Breaking news:
    Netanyahu has failed to form a government and this evening “returned the mandate” to the President , who is expected to hand over the task of forming a government to Benny Gantz.

    (the joke going around is that the President should “return the mandate ” to the British…)

    • Mooser on October 22, 2019, 9:28 pm

      “(the joke going around is that the President should “return the mandate ” to the British…)”

      …rather than allow the Joint List into the government. That’s what it comes down to.

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