100 Most Recent Comments
The whole ‘antisemitism debate’ is so debased because the accuser never actually has to prove his or her accusations, especially if he/she is Jewish (no clue if Seaton is). All they have to do is say ‘How dare you use such a virulent anti-semitic trope!” and that’s it. As far as they’re concerned, they’ve made their argument. If you challenge them, it’s all “Well, if you can’t see how what you’ve just said – even if factually correct – is a vicious anti-semitic trope then I can’t help you and you’re obviously a vile antisemite. Good day.”
“So in order to avoid being outed as an anti-Semite by Seaton as well as by WJ, I have to study and recognize all those tropes.”
Exactly. They act as though antisemitism – as defined by them – is some sort of high science requiring research and study, unlike all those other -isms which simply aren’t as important or interesting. Probabably because the people affected by all these other -sims simply aren’t as important or interesting as them.
“If you don’t know the tropes of anti-semitism, then you don’t understand anti-semitism. And if you don’t care to take trouble to know them and recognize them, then it probably means you don’t actually care about anti-semitism.”
What exactly is the standard applied to levels of “care” about anti – semitism as “understood by Mr.Seaton. Is it eg discriminatory ie because of history and the Holocaust in particular that the level of ” care ” should automatically be higher than that applied to Islamophobia,hatred of blacks ,Asians etc ?
Whilst the level of “care” arguably should be a lot higher amongst Germans who were responsible for the Holocaust why should there be an expectation a similar level of “care” amongst the British,the Tibetans,Vanatu Islanders etc ad nauseum.
At the end of the day it all just reflects an increasingly transparent use of the Holocaust card to get Zionists of of jail for their colonial atrocities and war crimes against an innocent and defenceless people and the “reasoning” and explanations to excuse this become ever more tortuous and twisted by the day as more and more people especially younger people in the West question and frankly become bored with the eternal victimhood whining.
As for Mr.Seaton himself. He appears to be have been a second league hack/writer in the UK who somehow wound up in New York having wangled himself a couple of nice little earners
presumably once it was clear that he would honor the terms of the Zio shilling.
I’m disinclined to give Matt Seaton any attention as he’s a C list hack, working for the ‘greatest’ bastion of ‘liberal’ Zionism there is, the NYT.
However, I will say that I remember his time as editor of the Guardian’s Comment is Free pages several years ago. Let’s just say that when it comes to Israel, comment certainly is not free. The Guardian was known for deleting any comments which went beyond the appropriate ‘liberal’ critique of Israel. Same is certainly still true now – what with the awful Jonathan Freedland in a senior role how could it not be – but Seaton used to actually come below the line and offer pro Israel ‘analysis’, thereby making his personal bias very clear. He stopped this when several readers pointed it out, but clearly his pro Israel bias remained the same, and not terribly appropriate in a job which involved editing readers’ comments.
But it’s gratifying to see he has been slaughtered on his own Twitter feed for this latest nonsense. The comments criticising him outnumber the ones agreeing with him many times over. And his response to them is absolutely pathetic ‘dogwhistling’, ‘I know antisemitism when I see it’, and of course the favourite weasal word of all ‘tropes’. Pretty much anything critical of Israel can be a ‘trope’ these days. To me, using the phrase is basically holding up your hands and saying ‘Well, I can’t actually provide evidence that what you are saying is antisemitic, but hey I think it is and that’s all that matters’.
Tillerson reveals how Crooked Bibi manipulated Trump. Sounds ugly.
“Former Secretary of State Rex Tillerson said that Israeli officials “played” Donald Trump during talks, using “misinformation” to manipulate the president. He warned that a “healthy amount of skepticism” is necessary when dealing with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.
“They did that with the president on a couple of occasions, to persuade him that ‘we’re the good guys, they’re the bad guys,’” Tillerson said at a panel discussion Tuesday at Harvard University.”
You prefer the anachronistic ‘anti -semite’ which can be conveniently argued as applying to all people whos language is descended from semetic roots? Jew hating is too direct for you I suppose but let’s call it what it is. You certainly should understand as much or more then most regular commenters here. Or maybe your intent is to be provocative, how to tell?
I have no idea what percentage of jews ‘hate’ gentiles. And I suspect the % of jew haters that existed decades ago is slightly more than exists now . But, gentile hating doesnt seem to be a ‘thing’ even with the hyper- sensitive politically correct US msm. Maybe the inter-marriage rate for US zionist jews with ‘gentiles’ (you really take umbrage with that term?) can inform your opinion.
. Now… Christain hatred in parts of the Arab/ Muslim world , or as long as Christians remain dhimmis, is a different situation. There are no more jews in the Muslim world for them to hate up close and personal.
It’s not a requirement that you be fond of jews BTW. They can survive without your love
one time batya sargon accused someone of an anti semitic trope for something i’d never heard of on twitter, i asked about it. i googled it, nothing. no one answered me. so then i asked if there was some list that included it. no one answered me. i think the tropes are a very elastic grouping. while some are more famous, i think others can just be thrown in willy nilly, such as hers was on twitter.
“If you don’t know the tropes of anti-semitism, then you don’t understand anti-semitism. And if you don’t care to take trouble to know them and recognize them, then it probably means you don’t actually care about anti-semitism.”
And if I don’t actually care about anti-Semitism, does that show that I am an anti-Semite?
I’m going to make a wild guess here. I think Seaton will answer “Yes”.
So in order to avoid being outed as an anti-Semite by Seaton as well as by WJ, I have to study and recognize all those tropes.
Is there a list of them somewhere? An online or correspondence course I can take? A “Teach Yourself Anti-Semitic Tropes” book I can buy?
QUALROUGH- ” …I regard it as a mark of honor that Hophmi once accused me of anti-Semitism in these pages.”
Since Hophmi accuses most folks he disagrees with as anti-Semites, it is hardly a mark of honor. More like welcome to Mondoweiss!
DABAKR- “… you self-righteously imply you fight jew haters not only with words but with your body.”
“Jew haters?” Has a familiar ring to it, doesn’t it? Approximately what per cent of non-Jews do you reckon are “Jew hater?” Are there any Jewish Zionists who can be considered Gentile haters?” What per cent do you reckon?
“I don’t see Seaton as being overly sensitive. I see him as a socipathic criminal who is intentionally lying. ”
He’s a zionist. He’s a racist. He’s an apologist for the murder of children. I actually don’t particularly like Ali. Egotistical and given to hyperbolic rhetoric. So I’m not particularly fond of defending him. And will try to avoid doing so.
The fact that Jews were falsely accused of such activity is not a defense against accusations against specific individuals who engage in such behaviour and also happen to be Jewish.
His position is completely stupid.
He’s attempting to be a gatekeeper, like bungarson, and entirely unqualified and unsuitable for that or any role.
Children are being murder. Under orders and specifically. Not one. Not two. Not a dozen but many many more.
Nop ideology or project trumps (sorry) the equal value of all humanity. Seaton doesn’t agree. Palestinians lives are worth less than the war criminals directing their murder.
If I had to sum him up in a single word – scum.
“My guess is he is used to seeing the world a certain way. He has an ideology like many people do and he reacts emotionally and in an ugly way when someone challenges it head on, without trying to soften the blow.”
Perhaps. In which case if he comes to his senses and both retracts and apoligizes then I’ll revise my opinion. Failing that then he doesn’t only place his zionism asbeing more valued than human lives but he favours his own personal happiness over the lives of murdered children and I’ll add sociopath to his description along side racist.
Your calling Scalia an “illiterate” renders everything else you write as questionable. No problems with hating Scalia and his decisions but your just coming off as a pretentious show off who believes wholeheartedly in their intellectual superiority without adding anything (except maybe the Scalia quip) that hasn’t been said before.
In a nutshell :
You cant stand Bari Weiss and are disgusted by her success which you attribute to the willingness of Americans to lie to themselves
You dislike Dershowitz, another accomplished American legal scholar expert in appeals
You couldn’t stand Scalia and call him illiterate and…..
Though it’s HIGHLY doubtful, you self-righteously imply you fight jew haters not only with words but with your body.
A real hero. No ability to simply disagree without denigration. Insecure. (E.g. I would often become infuriated by Scalia’s opinions but calling him illiterate? One better have a pretty impressive body of work, accolades from other brilliant legal scholars as well as widespead respect on both sides of the political spectrum) Why should anybody take your opinion about mendacity seriously when you seem just as afflicted?
If you’re saying that anti-Semitism still exists and has been expressed on Mondoweiss, surprise! Bigotry is not going away as long as there are humans in this world. I’ve been the object of hatred directed toward my own particular community as well — and by whom particularly? Jews! That’s right! And not so long ago as well. It’s not as though I stand out, and the group I belong to is quite well assimilated, but nonetheless.
Once, for example, while sitting at an outdoor table at a restaurant with some friends, I was accosted by a Jewish woman who said some rather vile things to me, specifically about my ethnic origins, which, in my opinion, are not so obvious, since I am white. But she had me pegged ethnically, and nothing I said, without getting very aggressive, could make her go away. She seriously disliked people of my ethnicity, and she was going to make me realize that, although I was just sitting at a table, talking to some friends, and minding my own business. Finally, the restaurant owner got rid of her — because he saw what was going on.
This was in the U.S., by the way, in a major city. If I had been Jewish, this probably would have made the news.
This is not a unique incident. If you think that bigotry ought to be a thing of the past, I agree with you there, but let’s be realistic, shall we?
Are they cousins?
Hah! Now that made me laugh. too white
To Zionists, anything falling short of praise for Zionism is anti-Semitic. I would even go so far as to say that if you haven’t yet been accused of anti-Semitism here your criticism has been too tepid. Far from being ashamed, I regard it as a mark of honor that Hophmi once accused me of anti-Semitism in these pages.
Dear Phil, simpatico doesn’t mean “sympathetic”; also, it’s not spelled with a y.
Seaton, apparently, is unable to grasp the distinction between ‘butchery’, and ‘ritual slaughter’, as concerning the actual blood; the stuff that’s the focus of the ‘libel’.
In modern butchery, blood is merely a waste-product, to be washed away; though traditionally, it was collected as a foodstuff (as in, ‘blood sausage’, or, ‘blood pudding’). But either way, it has no mystical significance.
Ritual slaughter, by contrast, is symbolically all about the blood; which, in ancient Jewish Temple sacrifice, was splashed across the alter, to demonstrate the worshipper’s self-sacrifice for God.
“In Judaism, the korban (קָרְבָּן qorbān)…any of a variety of sacrificial offerings described and commanded in the Torah…has a spiritual meaning, and refers to some part of an individual’s ego, which is given up as a sacrifice to God in honor of the mortality of the worshipper. In keeping with the root of the word, meaning to draw close, and to the common usage as the sacrifice of an animal, so too can the worshipper sacrifice something of this world in order to become closer to God.”
Interestingly: “A few groups, notably the Temple Institute and the Temple Mount Faithful, have petitioned the Israeli government to rebuild a Third Temple on the Temple Mount and restore sacrificial worship… The Temple Institute has been constructing ritual objects in preparation for a resumption of sacrifices.”
Meanwhile: “Blood rituals [in general] often involve a symbolic death and rebirth, as literal bodily birth involves bleeding. Blood is typically seen as very powerful… Blood sacrifice is sometimes considered by the practitioners of prayer…to intensify the power of such activities.”
The substance of the ‘blood libel’, is that some Jews in the Middle Ages performed a mystical ritual that required a young Christian boy’s blood sacrifice. People do crazy stuff; so this isn’t entirely outside the range of Human possibility. But it wasn’t Ali who accused the IDF of ritual slaughter. He specifically accused them of butchery. Rather, it was Seaton who’s raised the idea that the Israeli military is engaging in some kind of bizarre ritual of blood sacrifice. But, I don’t know, maybe he has a point. It’s not my area of expertise; but the notion certainly gives me the creeps. “They crazy !”
“Does being dead disqualify a person for jury duty in your legal system?”
This being dead business seems to serve as a wonderful excuse for avoiding a lot of duties. My own relatives are quite happy to criticize my handiwork, but, when I suggest they should do the household repairs themselves, they say that they don’t have to do that sort of thing any more.
It does have its downsides, though. Your living relatives plunder your property, and in some places you lose the right to vote.
At least in East Asia they offer you a bit of food and drink from time to time. In the West all you get is a few miserable flowers.
I wouldn’t go that far. My guess is he is used to seeing the world a certain way. He has an ideology like many people do and he reacts emotionally and in an ugly way when someone challenges it head on, without trying to soften the blow.
And in fairness to Seaton, he has published some good pieces like this one—
But Ali Abunimah’s ( truthful) remark got under his skin. Incidentally, the author of the article I just linked popped into the thread and tried to talk sense into Seaton. That was one of the early polite attempts.
I tend to think that more Israeli Jews would be more welcoming of their inclusion into the body politic if they were “Israeli Arab” parties
you’re wrong, it makes no difference whatsoever.
No need reminding all that you have always been the official champion for the Comments Policy, as if there was such an explicit policy.
Hey! Those junior terrorists had a football! Do you know what that can do to an Israeli window?
I was and still am a long time reader of NYRB from about 1970. This was a very important part of my self-education. After the death of Barbara Epstein, and near the death of Robert B. Silvers, this tabloid began publishing Timothy Snyder’s Pro-Ukrainian Coup propaganda, aided by his small cadre of Coup apologists.
Prof Snyder was also the Ringmaster and author of
Ukraine: Thinking Together
Kyiv, 15-19 May: Manifesto
The fact that Right Sector and Svoboda participated in the 2014 Coup, and the latter appointment of the Azov Battalion as the Ukrainian National Guard makes abundantly clear that Anti-Semites were central actors in this Coup! Mr. Silver’s declining health may also have played a part in this turn to a kind of Neo-Conservatism, or the ‘Liberal Fraud’ of R2P of Ignatieff and fellow traveler Powers. Although the near cult status of Kennan and Berlin contributed to my growing disenchantment . Add the publication of former Daily Beast Neo-Conservative writers like Michael D. Weiss and James Kirchick, in the NYRB , after Snyder’s near hysterical Russophobia, renders the notion of Anti-Semitism coming from Mr. Matt Seaton a maladroit ,ineffective self-apologetic for a publication that aided the Coup and its Anti-Semites. Perhaps readers will find my comment not quite to the point of the essay I’m commenting upon, but the end of the NYRB i.e. its subversion by Neo-Cons/R2P Neo-Colonialists is symptomatic of a wholesale capitulation of an important part of America’s political class to Straussian nihilism.
I’m ready to believe a conspiracy if there is evidence. But subsequent acquiescence is insufficient to count as evidence for prior collusion.
“I think it was Ehud Barak who made the Palestinians a fair offer”
Do you think you could spell out the details of that offer, and what aspects made it anything less than grossly unjust?
” which they rejected and launched war instead.”
Aspirations regarding a peace between the Palestinians and Israeli Jewish peoples seem forlorn. The nakba is a chasm between the two sides and the demographic assumptions that this act of exiling such a large population have cultural and societal consequences that are negative and quite entrenched.
Yet I am devoted to the Jewish move towards self emancipation that has centered on the land near Jerusalem. Unable to imagine a birth that did not involve such an exiling, my differences with the prevailing Jewish attitudes are not sufficient to undo all the pain caused. For example: olmert spoke of 10,000 returning refugees and I think in terms of 500,000, insufficient for the mindset of millions of Palestinians, but way beyond the mindset of my fellow Jewish Zionists.
The enmity regarding distrust of having Palestinians in the army is “self evident”. this is quite different from the drafting of the blacks into the american army. it is a different dynamic than jim crow. worse in many ways but better in other ways and very different, but i suppose analogies are necessary as a beginning of a comprehension.
the democracy phil weiss talks about meaning one state will come at the hands of annexationists whose attitude towards the Palestinians is retrograde, to say the least. Jewish zionists in general are opposed to the two state solution for a variety of reasons. if it is going to be like hamas in gaza or hezbollah in lebanon there is nothing to see in the true sovereignty for palestinians three miles away from lod airport as anything but security folly. since the nakba is the real gripe in any case and jaffa and haifa not nablus and hebron, then the two state solution is only a marker on the road to jewish emancipation oblivion.
if the settlement enterprise had been nipped in the bud by eshkol and if begin had never come to power, then the occupation of the west bank might have been predominantly military and the military decision to choose occupation rather than hezbollah near lod is understandable. but, once the occupation is turned into a settler occupation that which is created is so anti democratic as to be too blatant even ridiculous.
As far as American politicians, I wonder when the attitude of the grass roots of the democratic party will filter up into their elected officials, this type of artificial gap between the roots and the politicos seems unprecedented. This is bound to be an ugly process. and there is zero good will between the antizionists and the zionists, so it will be very ugly.
genesto, I also believe there is an incestuous set of pressures from Israel operating inside Congress. All those members who can be coerced into voting money for Israel can also be coerced into voting for Israel’s choice of Congressional “leaders”. Thus the “leaders” (Pelosi, Schumer, Hoyer on the Dem side) are the most fierce proponents of Israel. They then use that leadership role to further pressure the members to vote for Israel’s crimes. A sickening cycle in a cesspool of corruption.
If Dingell truly wanted to serve her constituents and her country she could step up and tell us all what REALLY happened to coerce her into betraying her own heart for an obvious lie.
I don’t see Seaton as being overly sensitive. I see him as a socipathic criminal who is intentionally lying. That easily explains why he ignores the overwhelming evidence against his “explanation”. If he were a sensitive person, he would have some compassion for the victims of Israel’s cruel barbarity. As it is, his grotesque intellectual dishonesty reveals his true character – an emotional cripple devoid of morality, and a menace to society.
“here’s my five judges from the past and present: rabbi brandt rosen, peter beinart, avraham burg, isaac deutscher and christopher hitchens”
Does being dead disqualify a person for jury duty in your legal system?
And “Yonah”, why do you assiduously (yes! I said “assiduously” and I mean it! avoid using correct punctuation?
:” Zionists are free to call people names and pound endlessly on “antisemitism” and such, while responding is verboten.”
That is explained in a a sub-clause (the “sanity clause” ) in the comments policy which says “Never interrupt your opponent when he’s defeating himself.”
Hey, give Phil a break. He has to live in the same town as Bari Weiss. So he damns with faint praise.
“Bari Weiss is a person of uncommon rhetorical talent and poise.”
Basically he called her a smooth bullshitter.
Right, if floppy mendacity can pass for poise, there are over 327 million Americans who are poise-plus or poise-extraordinaire. It is shocking to me that anyone can watch Weiss in any of her public appearances and come to the assessment that she has any poise – in any of the myriad possibilities that poise maintains, or any of the many definitions. That is other than one. Weiss’ pose is the smirk of the gas-lighter who is praised for lying. These are not benign lies and smears. Weiss lies to not only excuse, but rather promote murder, torture, ethnic cleansing and cultural theft. That she assists powerful players who profit from this, and find glee in it, only makes her push harder so they praise her and determine that she is a person of acclaim. What should be comical, but given the actual human toll cannot be, is that Weiss uses an incredibly limited set of phrases and concepts. There are no acute analogies, no consideration of historical event, literary expression or even expansive popular culture markers. She is nearly as mentally limited, by choice, as Dershowitz (by choice). Or, by choice, that barely literate joker who was a supreme court justice. Scalia. But that makes her one of the dedicated attackers. Mercenaries with tiny bags of words but unusually wide circulation to disseminate hatred.Their handlers never worry that those like Weiss have any thoughts of doubt as to who should be eliminated.
Weiss is among those who desperately need to conflate critiques of Zionism with Antisemitism so as to attack – not only verbally, but physically and to determinedly erase any of their economic livelihoods – people who are opposed to violence perpetrated by the Israeli state and representatives of that state. By maintaining that barrier of political correctness, Weiss systematically works to cancel any who promote rights and justice, or even merely show that they care about these things.
I’ll insert myself here. Those of us who fight against Antisemitism, often with our bodies on the line, find Weiss incredibly boring and insufferable. I had thought of making it public then decided against it – but now I will edit and publish times when I was attacked, including a murderous intent Pittsburgh physical attack by two neo-Nazis. Weiss can blather on any way she chooses, but hers should not be a voice that addresses Antisemitism. At least not for anyone who is trying to stop it – but I suspect that Weiss is one of those who needs to maintain Antisemitism so that she can build her identity. She is not smart enough to even realize that. Smart as in she chooses to keep herself limited because that gives her fame, a fame she relishes – again, how very boring.
In a confession of sorts, I do admire and appreciate Mondoweiss. I find the content and the comments, for the most part, informative. I learn a lot. This, however, is what I hope to be a misstep. Although I do recall a somewhat similar misstep, when, several years ago, Schumer was described as though he were in some way intellectually smart (to that I chortled).
|| jon s: “… In 2014 over 2200 Palestinian civilians were killed”.
No, that’s the total number of Palestinians killed, including armed combatants. ||
You’re right: According to the U.N., Israel kill “only” ~1,500 civilians “of whom 495 were children”.
Thanks for setting the record straight.
And how many of the 2200 were “armed combatants?” Those little boys playing soccer on the beach?
“… In 2014 over 2200 Palestinian civilians were killed”.
No, that’s the total number of Palestinians killed, including armed combatants.
|| stephenFL: … But maybe if the Israeli Arabs began to identify themselves as Israeli Arabs and not “Palestinian parties”, it could be helpful moving forward. ||
I agree with Palestinian / Arab Israelis identifying themselves as Palestinian / Arab Israeli.
I think what would also be helpful moving forward is Israel identifying itself as an inclusive Israeli state and not a religion-supremacist “Jewish State”.
The problem as I see it is that you called the Joint List “the Palestinian parties”. So the question is, are they Israeli Arabs, or are they Palestinians? I tend to think that more Israeli Jews would be more welcoming of their inclusion into the body politic if they were “Israeli Arab” parties, and not as you called them, “Palestinian parties”. Many Israeli’s have lurched rightward over the years as the result of violence. Remember, I’m not too old to remember when Labor party dominated Israeli politics. I think it was Ehud Barak who made the Palestinians a fair offer which they rejected and launched war instead. Things have not been the same since. I have almost always been a liberal, but the events of 9-11 and after caused me too to lurch rightward, for a short while at least. Most American Jews do not like Trump, or Netanyahu. So now there is a great divide. But maybe if the Israeli Arabs began to identify themselves as Israeli Arabs and not “Palestinian parties”, it could be helpful moving forward.
Beam me up, Scotty – and make it fast, i.e. before the next US election!
“Bari Weiss is a person of uncommon rhetorical talent and poise.”
Would Bari Weiss need Phil Weiss’s permission to put this blurb on her book?
“brent was close enough to top off that crew.”
Except there’s a big difference. “brent” is still around, the rest have left Trump. In fact, they all left the administration before “brent” wrote the comment including them!
And that’s not to mention Netanyahoo.
@Keith: I did not say the strike force heading for Egypt was one of the two rescue missions that responded, or tried to respond, to the SOS sent by the USS Liberty.
Lyndon Johnson was responsible for the recall of both rescue missions, and he thereby allowed the Israeli attack to continue. Obviously, Johnson could have simply told Israel to stop its attack immediately.
JAMES CANNING- “Do you understand that the US Sixth Fleet twice sent squadrons of aircraft in response to the SOS from the USS Liberty, and each time the relief response was recalled?”
Yes, however, that is substantially different from your ludicrous claim that “… you appear unaware the American aerial strike force heading for targets in Egypt….” The planes were responding to the SOS from the Liberty, they were not an “… aerial strike force heading for targets in Egypt….” You have so mangled historical reality that I suspect that you are a Zionist mole trying to make anti-Zionist commenters look irrational. Rave on all you want, I am done with you.
Agreed. With Trump in power, and the Repubs and establishment Democrats on board in giving Israel free reign in doing whatever it wants with the Palestinians, the only pressure on Israel will come from the progressive base of the Democratic Party, politically, and the BDS movement, economically, and neither has yet reached critical mass.
How to understand Seaton’s being so overly sensitive. Looking for and lashing out at perceived indications of anti-semitism?
Wondering if there could be a sense of insecurity or perhaps repressed guilt for acts of taking unfairly, or using deceptions to take advantage? Or perhaps insisting to discriminate.
Looks like there may be a third election? TODIME The Only Democracy in the Middle East) isn’t even a functioning government!! Tsk tsk!
“In 2008-2009, 2012 and 2014, Gaza was at war with Israel, ”
What nonsense. Israel was massacring a defenseless population. Thousands of civilians were held captive, not allowed out of their concentration camp, for Israel to bomb as often as they pleased.
@Keith: Do you understand that the US Sixth Fleet twice sent squadrons of aircraft in response to the SOS from the USS Liberty, and each time the relief response was recalled? Lyndon Johnson himself directly ordered the recall of one of those missions.
When Donald Trump tells racist lies, the New York Times calls him out on it. Not here.
Tillerson’s diplomatic way of calling Netanyahu a liar: “Netanyahu Used ‘Misinformation’ to Persuade” https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/tillerson-says-netanyahu-used-misinformation-to-persuade-trump-1.7865372
HOPHMI- “Oh, really? That makes sense to you?”
Perhaps if they weren’t occupied and oppressed they would behave differently. It is not pleasant being the lawn which Israel loves to mow.
“There is, evidently, much satisfaction to be gained by careful inspection of those writhing under our boot, to see if they are behaving properly; when they are not, as is often the case, indignation is unconstrained.” (Noam Chomsky)
All of this nonsense will end my star fleet finally arrives in Earth’s orbit.
Israel and the US government are the first issues to be handled by the Council of Commanders.
hey now quit picking on the NYT. Just look at what a diverse range of opinions they publish, from a diverse range of people. Both Reform AND Orthodox. Liberal Zionist AND right wing Zionist.
■ SPIRITUAL WARFARE!!! Demon Vs Pastor
1,524,484 views | Published on Jan 15, 2013
A demon within this young man is exposed at this prayer session in The Synagogue, Church Of All Nations. In the ensuing encounter with Wise Man Christopher, a spiritual battle between light and darkness takes place. Light conquers and he receives an incredible deliverance in the name of Jesus Christ!
■ The Synagogue, Church of All Nations
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Synagogue,_Church_of_All_Nations
[EXCERPT] The Synagogue, Church Of All Nations (SCOAN) is a non-denominational Christian ministry located in Lagos, Nigeria.  . . .
The Synagogue, Church of All Nations
Location Lagos, Nigeria
Denomination Non-denominational, Charismatic
Weekly attendance 50,000
Founder(s) T.B. Joshua
Senior pastor(s) T.B. Joshua
Zionist “Israel” will prove to be a blip in history.
Zionism will not “always” be “the winner.” It’s now 71 years and “Israel’s” “special relationship” with the U.S. is under ever increasing serious strain. Americans, especially youth, including Jews, are waking up and realizing they are in bed with a vicious, self-serving, expansionist, racist monster. Time and the sweep of history are with the indigenous Palestinians.
■ Evangelism in Nigeria – Reinhard Bonnke
658,515 views | Published on Jan 16, 2011
We’re now in the total nausea phase of reporting, critical or otherwise. Dear Phil, no, it is not only you, and happens far too often, but when you gush praise, if you so choose, please link to or excerpt some of the text that warrants praise. How do you come to the assessment, or rather acknowledgment (a gesture of defeatism) that “Bari Weiss is a person of uncommon rhetorical talent and poise.” When the heavy weight of a hierarchically and creatively limiting establishment is behind someone, if they cannot find and channel a demeanor of “poise” that would indicate a certain skepticism or unwillingness. Which is a good thing. As for “uncommon rhetorical talent,” I think I am among the many who read that and were immediately afflicted with malaise. Complete nausea and I hadn’t even gotten through half of my morning coffee. So what gurgled up were other fluids. Fluids that should have been circulating to charge my synapses and ready me for my day. Yet if that skill attribution is one you believe Weiss possesses, please provide an example or preferably several examples. It would be good if you could explain why those examples display rhetorical prowess, but if that’s an impossible task, which it most likely is, then let the excerpts stand on their own for your readers to assess.
Lest we forget:
Human Rights Watch, 2005: “…Israel will continue to be an Occupying Power [of the Gaza Strip] under international law and bound by the provisions of the Fourth Geneva Convention because it will retain effective control over the territory and over crucial aspects of civilian life. Israel will not be withdrawing and handing power over to a sovereign authority – indeed, the word ‘withdrawal’ does not appear in the [2005 disengagement] document at all… The IDF will retain control over Gaza’s borders, coastline, and airspace, and will reserve the right to enter Gaza at will. According to the Hague Regulations, ‘A territory is considered occupied when it is actually placed under the authority of the hostile army. The occupation extends only to the territory where such authority has been established and can be exercised’. International jurisprudence has clarified that the mere repositioning of troops is not sufficient to relieve an occupier of its responsibilities if it retains its overall authority and the ability to reassert direct control at will.”
The International Committee of the Red Cross: “The whole of Gaza’s civilian population is being punished for acts for which they bear no responsibility. The closure therefore constitutes a collective punishment imposed in clear violation of Israel’s obligations under international humanitarian law. The Fourth Geneva Convention of 1949, ratified by Israel, bans collective punishment of a civilian population.”
“In practice, Gaza has become a huge, let me be blunt, concentration camp for right now 1,800,000 people” – Amira Hass, 2015 correspondent for Haaretz, speaking at the Forum for Scholars and Publics at Duke University.
To quote Dov Weisglass, PM Ariel Sharon’s senior adviser:
“‘The significance of the [then proposed] disengagement plan [implemented in 2005] is the freezing of the peace process,’ Prime Minister Ariel Sharon’s senior adviser Dov Weisglass has told Ha’aretz. ‘And when you freeze that process, you prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state, and you prevent a discussion on the refugees, the borders and Jerusalem. Effectively, this whole package called the Palestinian state, with all that it entails, has been removed indefinitely from our agenda….’ Weisglass, who was one of the initiators of the disengagement plan, was speaking in an interview with Ha’aretz for the Friday Magazine. ‘The disengagement is actually formaldehyde,’ he said. ‘It supplies the amount of formaldehyde that is necessary so there will not be a political process with the Palestinians.’” (Top PM Aide: Gaza Plan Aims to Freeze the Peace Process, Ha’aretz, October 6, 2004)
A just released summation of “Israel’s” killing and wounding thus far, of native Palestinians confined to the occupied Gaza Strip, the world’s largest prison, during their Great March of Return, which began on March 30/18:
State of Palestine, Ministry of Health, September 11/19
“Report of data collected on the number of martyrs and the number of injuries sustained during the Great March of Return, March 30/18 to September 7/19.”
“This report presents data collected on the number of martyrs and the number of injuries sustained during the Great March of Return that started on 30 March 2018. The report documents Israel’s continued violation of human rights and disregard for International Humanitarian Law in the Gaza Strip through its killings, shootings and targeting of women, children, medical teams, journalists and citizens who claim their most basic rights, which are guaranteed under International Law.
“The importance of this report is that it serves as an official document drawn up by the Palestinian MOH, benefiting from the input of multiple other stakeholders, human rights organizations and researchers. The total number of martyrs was 312, of whom 96.2% (300) were male and 19.6% (61) were children.
“The total number injured was 34,282 including 18,642 (54.4%) who attended hospital 71.7 % of the all hospitals injuries were in persons aged 18 to 39 years. 48.0% of injuries were to the lower limbs, with 10.0% to the head and neck. 40.7% of injures were from live bullets, 6.6% resulted from rubber-coated metal bullets and 13.4% were the result of tear gas inhalation. There were four martyrs and 773 wounded among medical staff, who were injured by gunfire and tear gas inhalation, while 133 ambulances were partially damaged as the result of attacks.
“Sources of Data: In the preparation of this report, the Palestinian Health Information Center relied on data from hospitals, primary health care centers of the Ministry of Health, NGO hospitals and medical points. Data was assessed to ensure quality control, eliminating duplication of names, and was analyzed statistically for publication in this report.”
Surely, it’s screamingly obvious that an essential step “to advance the security interests of the United States” is to end its “special relationship” with “Israel,” a thoroughly documented illegal/brutal, expansionist occupier and serial violator of international humanitarian law.
Apart from its enormous financial cost to U.S. taxpayers ($134.7 billion in aid since 1948), “Israel” has been the principle and entirely justified cause of the Arab world’s animosity directed towards America, which has led to its repeated disastrous wars in the region.
|| hophmi: Oh, really? That makes sense to you? The majority view in Gaza is that there should be a secular democracy? You voted for Islamist fundamentalists. You’re ruled by autocrats. Tell you what: establish a democracy is Gaza first. Overthrow Hamas. Take Islam as a state religion out of your constitution. Treat women equally. Stop killing gay people. Then we can talk about “secular democracy.” ||
Wow, you’re really good at “outreach”.
But I think we can agree that we should encourage all the people of Partition-borders not-Israel (let’s call it the “State of Palestine”) to embrace justice, accountability and equality and to establish a secular and democratic state of and for all people living in and up to n-generations removed from its / Partition borders.
I’m sure we can also agree that Israel should do its part by ending its decades-long and on-going military occupation and colonization of the State of Palestine and withdrawing to within its / Partition borders.
And I’m quite certain we can agree that the U.S. can help by providing unquestioning economic, political, financial and military support similar to the support Israel has enjoyed and profited from for decades.
Oh, really? That makes sense to you? The majority view in Gaza is that there should be a secular democracy? You voted for Islamist fundamentalists. You’re ruled by autocrats. Tell you what: establish a democracy is Gaza first. Overthrow Hamas. Take Islam as a state religion out of your constitution. Treat women equally. Stop killing gay people. Then we can talk about “secular democracy.”
Thanks for the link to Greenwald’s essay.
“Ossinev- I wish you a case of cholera”
Charming.and character revealing.No doubt you are similarly inclined towards anything Islamic.
Shouldn`t really respond in kind but what the hell:
An apology is in order, I think.
RoHa: And that reveals what a vile person you are.
I thought it was rather amusing invective. I certainly don’t think Yonah is a “vile person.” But then again, I’m not really into the virtue signaling game.
Mooser: “Arabs want to annihilate us all – women, children and men” – that is Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s new message to voters, which appears through an automated popup message that appears on the screen of anybody accessing his official Facebook page.
It don’t get much quotier than that, “Dabakr”
Actually, it could be slightly more quotier if it was in the original Hebrew. From the MW article above:
Reports surfaced on Wednesday that upon accessing Netanyahu’s official page, viewers were being greeted with an automated popup message, generated by a chatbot, with a message to voters imploring them to “make sure” their friends and family vote Likud.
“A secular left-wing weak government that relies on Arabs who want to destroy us all – women, children and men, and will enable a nuclear Iran that will eliminate us,” the message read, saying “we cannot allow this to happen!”
So whether it’s “annihilate” or “destroy” is a matter of translation– but doesn’t change the hate-mongering, race-baiting, anti-Arab nature of the statement at all.
You should seriously think about your attitude to other people.
Calling someone a “twat” is a mild derogatory remark. It shows that you are irritated with and/or contemptuous of him.
Saying that you wish him to suffer from a painful, fatal, disease is an expression of deep hatred. It shows that you want him to die, apparently just for challenging your claims.
And that reveals what a vile person you are.
The rules of “moderation” here can be discovered by trial and error, ie by sounding, now that we have the 2012 statement by Weiss.
So we are adding one more rule: Zionists are free to call people names and pound endlessly on “antisemitism” and such, while responding is verboten. Even when done mildly.
“… he rejected sitting with the Joint List when its head Ayman Odeh mooted the possibility.”
Trolling, he was.
I have a better idea.
Instead of asking us to prove innocence to an imaginary jury, why don’t you present evidence of guilt?
But you will have to explain why this, that, or the other counts as anti-Semitism.
I am pretty sure you can’t because you don’t know, so I expect your accusations will fail.
And now to what I suspect is the Forbidden Question.
Let us suppose that I am an incompetent but sincere historian. As a result of my bungled researches I come to the following conclusions:
1. The death toll of the Homolodor was greatly exaggerated.
2. The story of Rape of Nanking was cooked up by American propagandists over a small incident that only involved a few people.
3. The Australian Army actually won the Emu War.
If I state those conclusions, does that make me (1) a Ukrainian-hater, (2) a Chinese-hater, or (3) an Australian Army-hater?
If so, why so?
“Rules For Using Single Quotation Marks”
In a headline single quotation marks are used in place of the standard double quotation marks. So, if the headline includes the title of a song, short story, or a quotation, you would use single quotation marks. Generally, you’ll see this used when the headline is in reference to something someone said.
Haaretz used single quotes around the comment with “annihilate” in it that was referring to a similar statement
no, they did not. they used double quotes in the article, exactly how i copy pasted it above. the only place in the article single quotes were used was in the headline, which is a normal editorial standard (mondoweiss uses the same editorial standard, we do not use double quotes in headlines, ever*).
I wouldn’t bother to lie about such a small detail unless I was surrounded by nit pickers which…… Just saying, sometimes….
i think it’s you who’s nitpicking. and “I wouldn’t bother to lie” is not a counter argument. it’s basically a “trust me i’m right” argument. if you’re going to challenge a direct quote from haaretz, you’ll need some source. a screenshot, a link, something. thus far, all you have is a nitpicky claim. .. from someone who doesn’t even know the common practice of using only single quotes in headlines. #fail.
Abe, placing “the fact” in front of your comment doesn’t make it any more true or relevant than replacing “many Arabs” with “many Jews”. — just saying.
*here’s just one example, and i could find hundreds of others: https://mondoweiss.net/2017/03/annexation-immediate-lieberman/
to counter this, find one mondoweiss headline using double quotes. you can’t because MW doesn’t do it. my hunch is, neither does haaretz. to imagine double quotes in an article are inferred from single quotes in a byline or headline is ridiculous.
i can understand how a conference focused on ‘Love and Desire in Modern Iran’ and Middle East film criticism support the development of foreign language and international expertise for the benefit of U.S. national security and economic stability.
as is stands now most of the so-called middle east experts hired by think tanks and the msm punditry don’t even speak arabic or farsi much less understand the culture.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
I propose a jury on whether someone is antisemitic or not: here’s my five judges from the past and present: rabbi brandt rosen, peter beinart, avraham burg, isaac deutscher and christopher hitchens. if you can argue that one of these five judges would exonerate those I condemn, I will accept that I overstepped. but you want to use yonifalic and danaa as your judges. good luck!
A critique of Jewish identity can be useful. A critique of Jewish identity by the enemy is not useful.
Roha- Regarding cholera, it was either that or call him a twat. I chose the cholera. Should I apologize?
keith- tribal identity has potential problems in modern society. thank god we have the likes of you to help us solve the potential problems.
Advance the security interests of the United States, or of some other country?
Am I ever going to find out what makes Polish Jews indigenous to Palestine?
Is anyone ever going to explain ” historic homeland” to me?
“And being Jewish Zionists precludes those two conditions?”
I thought they were requirements.
2nd try. Edited.
“Ossinev- I wish you a case of cholera.”
You are always charming, Yonah. Such a good example to the rest of us.
“Roha- Any small nation would serve the world best by losing its language so that the large languages remain and the small languages disappear.”
Now this is quite silly. Such a position could be seen as anti-Albanian, anti-Welsh, anti-Maltese, anti-Tongan, and anti-Basque, but what on earth makes it count as Jew hatred? There is nothing specific to Jews in there.
(Furthermore, I will point out that my official position is that everyone should speak English, dammit. This means that the large languages – Chinese, Spanish, Russian, Indonesian, Hindi, Arabic, and so forth – should disappear, as well as the small ones. Jews who speak English would be unaffected.)
Interesting that Mooser can quote a comment that isn’t there. It means that my comment was published and then withdrawn.
I must have said something Forbidden.
Not wishing a fatal disease on another commenter, though. That is perfectly acceptable to MW.
“She’s just another thoroughly mainstream writer who thrives on cheap, easy, and superficial “controversy,” who sees herself as a brave intellectual dissident as she is continually celebrated by and gets promoted within the most mainstream media circles — all for spouting conventional and power-flattering critiques of largely powerless figures. ”
oh yea. Brave soul indeed. and remember –
“When powerful people demand civility from those with less power, what they are really saying is that they expect obedience from their lessers.”
“Isaac Deutscher died of a heart attack in 1967. …”
That lets Isaac Deutscher off the hook.
“You want everybody to speak English, but you want to take almost all the words out of the language! ”
If the words are already in the OED, they are fine and can stay. Furthermore, if foreigners think they have any useful words which do not have English equivalents, they can submit those words for assessment by the authorities.
JAMES CANNING- “The US Strategic Air Command went on full alert BEFORE Israel attacked the USS Liberty at 1:58 p.m. Israeli time.”
I don’t know what you mean by “full alert.” Some increase in readiness in response to the onset of the 6 day war would not be unusual. And your conclusion that this demonstrates that Israel had LBJ’s approval to attack the Liberty is ludicrous. Are you a 911 Truther?
“Of course there is a possibility Trump has caved to Greater Israel, discrimination under the law, and another generation of war and is only pretending to want to rebuild America’s infrastructure…. only scheming on getting past 2020.”
And in what way would this be out of character?While he occassionally doubles down on stupid he caves frequently. He tries to cover that by lying about what he said he was going to and acheive or just lies about the outcome. All politicians up for it are looking to get past 2020 by now.
You are incredibly naive or merely previewing the fable that’s been concocted for when the deal is a flop. Blame it on the Palestinians. They didn’t reject the deal. Trump did by his words and actions.
“Appointing Netanyahu’s choices to key positions (Greenblatt, Friedman, Bolton” “brent””
I’m holding you responsible.I imeddiately had this vision of all 4. I know it”s Brett Kavanaugh but brent was close enough to top off that crew.
JAMES CANNING- “… American aerial strike force heading for targets in Egypt….”
Where are you getting this crap? Links, etc? The last thing LBJ needed in 1967 was another war, one with the potential to go nuclear real fast. LBJ’s real problem was keeping Israel from going too far.
Glenn Greenwald did his usual 10-star job exposing this careerist-grasping mediocrity in a piece in The Intercept a couple years ago. See URL.
Oh, and watch Greenwald dismember her “uncommon rhetorical talent and poise”.
JON S- “I don’t agree with Dr. Oren’s politics, but he is a competent professional historian, and an expert on the Six Days War.”
Oren is a Zionist defender of Israel engaged in information warfare. Mondoweiss has documented his lack of honesty multiple times. I link to one. https://mondoweiss.net/2015/07/misrepresents-synagogue-changed/
JON S- “aside from calling him a serial liar, you haven’t pointed out any inaccuracies in his account.”
His account is garbage. He list those things which he can’t deny, then claims stuff which is impossible to disprove. One new thing, however. He has the audacity to make the absurd claim that the Liberty was misidentified as a destroyer! I quote the line below. Unbelievable! And this is your “expert?”
“…reckoned that the ship was a “Z” or Hunt-class destroyer without the deck markings (a white cross on a red background) of the Israeli navy.”
JON S- “Are you saying that AJ Cristol’s account is unreliable because he volunteers at the Miami Jewish Home and Hospital?”
I am observing what appears to be a strong Jewish identity and likely Zionist orientation which would go a long way in explaining his gross misrepresentation of reality. Let me add that he is a lawyer like Alan Dershowitz, hence, skillful in misrepresenting reality in believable fashion. Zionists had no reluctance in claiming Palestine was a land without people for a people without land, and that the Palestinians fled upon hearing radio exhortations to absent themselves so that the Arab armies could throw the Jews into the sea. Lying seems intrinsic to Zionism when it advances Jewish Zionist interests. And the notion that the Liberty was misidentified is ludicrous, a part of a shameful coverup. Being a Zionist, you, like AJ Cristol, will continue to turn a blind eye to reality in order to defend Israel.
|| brent @ September 18, 2019, 6:44 pm ||
So…in your assessement, Trump is either:
– a proactive genius who will schmooze everyone into doing his bidding; or
– a reactive dolt who is “only scheming on getting past 2020”.
Can’t argue with that.
making it more difficult for Netanyahu to say “No” to his “deal of the century”. Consider also Trump said he’d cut off the money, “All of it” if Netanyahu balked. I don’t recall any politicians saying that so bluntly.
Giving netanyahu everything he wants makes it difficult for him to say “no” to what? what has the US asked for in return? anything?
Trump said he’d cut off the money, “All of it” if Netanyahu balked.
balked at what? nothings been leaked about this plan that indicates it’s anything but netanyahu’s plan. hence, threatening to cut off funds if netanyahu doesn’t comply is not a threat, it’s a faux threat.
Abbas and team, cut off their nose to spite their face, rebuked Trump, calling him “unfit” and turning their back to him.
what are you talking about? once trump announced jerusalem, previously always hyped as a final status issue, just gave it up, why should they trust him on anything? you sound like all this was trumps plan, it wasn’t. it was netanyahu’s and friedman’s and kushner’s doing israel’s bidding.
your entire comment is like some fantasy reality.
Leverage, something every previous President has sought one way or another, was created by becoming Israel’s best, most trusted, friend thus making it more difficult for Netanyahu to say “No” to his “deal of the century”. Consider also Trump said he’d cut off the money, “All of it” if Netanyahu balked. I don’t recall any politicians saying that so bluntly.
Unfortunately, Abbas and team, cut off their nose to spite their face, rebuked Trump, calling him “unfit” and turning their back to him. Essentially breaking relations and offending him very publicly. Pride and anger are destroyers. (not suggesting they had no reason to be offended and angry, rather short-sighted to lead on that basis)
It’s my hunch, Abbas effectively threw a wrench in Trump’s plan, something he tried to reverse by declaring he wasn’t determining borders, sovereignty nor status of East Jerusalem.
Probably, Abbas’ lack of sophistication and savvy, set Trump’s plan adrift and demonstrated to many, including Trump, that expecting him to be up to managing a state was unrealistic. My guess is Trump realizes now the secular state is the only plausible way forward and that may influence a positive response to the annexation plan, which kills the 2SS for all to see. If so, it will be done subtly. On the other hand, Trump may throw in the towel on a deal if Abbas keeps feeding Israel cards and remains clueless on how to engage with Trump and with Israel’s double game.
Of course there is a possibility Trump has caved to Greater Israel, discrimination under the law, and another generation of war and is only pretending to want to rebuild America’s infrastructure…. only scheming on getting past 2020.
@Albert Westpy At 77 I no longer even try with people like you.
And yet you did nonetheless. However, given that your comment is nothing more than a cheap insult, it is pretty obvious that you have nothing valid or worthwhile to say.
re: “pushing “narrow, particularized views of American social issues ”
Irony isn’t dead.
Good analysis. Jonathan is right, zionism is always the winner. As for the Palestinians, what difference does it make? They will continue to suffer, lose, and be killed. America will continue support, fund, and arm them. Sad.