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Total number of comments: 428 (since 2009-08-13 23:50:39)



Showing comments 428 - 401

  • Don't expect Elizabeth Warren or Kamala Harris to be critical of Israel
    • Facts regarding Israel's behavior cause hatred towards it. Also, official lying and covering up those facts. Personal attacks on Phil, e.g., calling him a media mogul (we would wish someone with his integrity & conscience were a media mogul) are unwarranted.

  • Netanyahu used 'leadership of American Jewish community' to block Obama policy -- Ben Rhodes
    • Netanyahu & the pro-Israel lobby didn't just block Obama's middle east "policy" (stillborn though such policy was), they splintered the democrats from their popular leader, helped elect the republican congress so that Obama couldn't do much in his second term, and then helped elect Trump. IMHO.

  • Mahmoud Abbas seals his intellectually impoverished legacy
  • Philadelphia Jewish groups try to stop publication of article critical of Israel, insist on BDS training for Inquirer editors
  • Israel needs Palestinian violence to shift world opinion -- and 'The New York Times' helps out!
    • They may have been written by the Israeli government, by paid posters, and their popularity may be a product of organized hasbara, even automated or users with multiple identities. I've noticed in the last month or so a rise in popularity of pro-Israel comments (I could be wrong, of course).

  • Thomas Friedman justifies slaughter of Arab civilians by 'crazy' Israel
    • First Trump wanting people from Scandinavia, then Friedman wanting to eliminate people not from Scandinavia.

  • Zionists should be excluded from left-oriented protests
    • "Jews, like every other minority, retain the right to define what constitutes hatred against them, and not their loud critics, who seek to use anti-Zionism as a mask for their own bigotry."

      It's pretty clear that Zionism with its history of mass murder, apartheid and ethnic cleansing constitutes a hate movement against Palestinians. But, I'm sure hopmi doesn't grant Palestinians (a minority in Israel and in most places) the right to define what constitutes hatred against them.

  • Facing serious damage to its image, Israel must smear its critics as anti-Semites
  • The never-ending crisis of Zionism
    • @Jackdaw

      Great. Now why don't you agitate for remainder of Israel's native people, all the exiled Palestinians, to live with hope and dignity (and equal rights) in "the Jewish State"

  • Times super-Zionist Bret Stephens commits fallacy and falsehood, on Jerusalem
    • @DBakr
      Herod being a client king of the Romans enabled lots movement by Jews throughout the empire. They were all over the Roman empire before the rebellion in Judea, as traders, as proselytizers and converts, possibly holdovers from the Phoenician trading empire that the Romans defeated. That is to say, for those who had left Judea, a large proportion left voluntarily. Others were of course exiled involuntarily, as prisoners or slaves. For the Jews who fled Judea due to the rampages of the Roman army quelling the rebellion, no doubt most fled to nearby areas, that is, to other parts of Palestine. Where they didn't disappear but most eventually adopted Christianity or Islam.

      As far as the Khazzar theory, it's supported by DNA evidence. It doesn't matter in any case, even if most Jewish ancestry was from ancient Judea it doesn't give them any legal claim to modern Judea.

    • @MHughes976, re Dio Cassius
      Judea, that he reports cleared, is only one section of Palestine. It's unlikely it had 900 villages or 580,000 men to be killed, especially as Josephus reported 1 million killed only 50 years or so earlier. And Jerusalem appears to have retained it's name. I suspect there's a good deal of exaggeration.

    • The area now known as Israel has been known since 500 BCE as Palestine.

      a) Relatively few of the ancestors of today's Jews lived in what is now called Israel. The vast majority of today's Jews' ancestry (as Jews) is from peoples who converted to Judaism outside of ancient or Roman era Palestine

      b) Most of the ancestors of today's Jews originated (as Jews) elsewhere

      c) The majority of the ancestors of today's Palestinians lived in ancient Palestine. The area wasn't depopulated by the Romans. A few rebel leaders fled after unsuccessful revolts against Roman rule, but most of the people stayed and eventually adopted Christianity and/or Islam.

      d) I don't particularly disagree with Judaism ascribing a theological importance to Jerusalem, however, merely claiming God gave you something doesn't mean you have the right to take it from it's legal owners

  • Bret Stephens equates anti-Zionists with white nationalists in the 'New York Times'
    • @Jerry Hirsh

      So what if a small minority of the population of "the land of Israel"* remained Jewish and continued to live in Palestine for the last 2000 years (Judaism didn't exist 3000 years ago), while everyone else in the place converted to Christianity or Islam or some other sect? It does not give Jews from Europe any claim to "the land of Israel"* or any right to expel the vast majority of people who had lived there for up to 10000 years, simply because their ancestors had converted to another non-Jewish religion.

      *If by "the land of Israel" you mean the mythical place described in the bible, if it ever existed, it hasn't existed for well over 2000 years because the tribe of Israel (if it ever existed) hasn't existed for well over 2000 years. If you mean the present-day "land of Israel," meaning the state of Israel's defined territory, that didn't exist until 1948. So either way, your claim that Jews have existed in the "land of Israel" for 3000 years is just zionist mythology.

    • @Jerry Hirsh
      If European Jews wanted to "return" to their "indigenous" place of origin, that would be now Northern Turkey, not Palestine. As determined by genetic studies, see

      You can count Turkey as part of the Middle East, but the origin of modern Jews, by and large, isn't Palestine. And absolutely, they're largely from the Khazarian conversion circa 8th century CE

  • Dear Simon Schama, you need a history lesson on Zionism
    • If all Zionists truly believed

      '“We do not forget nor deny that the Palestinian people have an equally legitimate, ancient history and culture in Palestine nor that they have suffered wrongs that must be healed.”'

      then they would all be supporting the right of return for Palestinians.

      Today (according to mainstream Zionists and probably Schama tho I haven't read the letter), the right of return for Palestinians equates to destruction of Israel, so supporting such a right is anti-Zionist.

  • Cartoon of Dershowitz mingled appropriate satire and anti-Semitic imagery
    • I don't think it's anti-semitic. You only think it's anti-semitic because the nazis used a vaguely similar image, in an anti-semitic cartoon. Only vaguely similar, and clearly limited to the IDF and Dershowitz, not all Jews. In the nazi one, the spider image is used to indicate Jews are spinning webs (I can't read the writing, so I don't know specifically webs of what), doing evil, spider-like things. In Mayorga's it's just (as someone else says) to overcome the problem of having Dershowitz step on a Palestinian while facing forward, not as in the nazi one, spinning webs of entrapment. Even if Dershowitz is depicted as a spider (unclear), I don't think every single image used by the nazis should be forever eliminated from the cartoon lexicon just because nazi used one to depict Jews.

      Yes, it's a distraction. The cartoon was spot on.

  • Contest! Design a logo to celebrate the IDF's 70th birthday
    • One in which the sword is cutting down the olive tree, rather than a branch wrapped around it, would seem more more appropriate than any of the IDF's choices. I like Latuff's

  • The low-rent bullying of the Zionist ideologue
    • @jeffb

      The examples you cite are anti-Israel, not anti-Jew. Including Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran. You are deliberately conflating the two or maybe just utterly failing to grasp the difference. Well, Israel has made war on Palestinians (Hamas was founded to fight back), Lebanon (Hezbollah was founded to fight back) and is threatening war on Iran. What do you expect?

      I'm glad you realize Netanyahoo uses hateful rhetoric. You just use lies, for example: claiming that BDS statement that the illegal Jewish settlements in the occupied territories implies BDS wants to get rid of Jews from Israel - news flash to jeffb - the Jewish settlers are living there illegally (fact) and they aren't in Israel (fact).

      Well, I'm done responding to your lies because you'll just come up with another long list.

    • "There is no movement that pushes for depopulating Italy and replacing it with say Chinese people."

      Zionism is a movement that pushes for depopulating Palestine and replacing them with Jewish people. Granted, there's probably some desire on the part of some victims of the Zionist/Israeli ethnic cleansing campaigns to see the immigrant Jews who committed the ethnic cleansing go back to where they came from. However, no one in the BDS movement that you're seeking to suppress is seeking to depopulate Israel of Jews, and I don't know any other organized movement that's seeking to depopulate Jews from what used to be Palestine.

      "It [anti-Zionist movement] happens as an incest public interest group that continually attempts to make Jews uncomfortable. It goes after companies that do business with Jews, it goes after Jewish business, it goes after foreign diplomats. It goes after arabs who engage in any sort of social discourse."

      No, that's zionist b.s. No one is attempting to make Jews uncomfortable, or go after companies that do business with Jews. Sure, Jews may be uncomfortable finding out Zionists commit mass murder in their name. Lying and covering up is what Zionists do, because they want to get away with mass murder and ethnic cleansing.

      "There is nothing comparable to bullying attacks in France against Jewish children in your Italy analogy."

      The bullying attacks aren't made by anyone in the BDS movement. Yes, it's a shame if Jews everywhere get blamed for what Zionists do in their name. But maybe Zionists shouldn't commit crimes or discriminate against the non-Jewish indigenous people of the territory they claim, simply because the Zionists want the place to be as cleansed of non-Jews as they can make it.

  • Do not turn the Balfour Declaration into a holy Jewish text
    • What JeffB is arguing is might makes right, so it's OK for the Russians to have run all those Jews out of Russia because they had the might to do so. Too bad so many got killed, but that's the rules of the game, they were just up against a historical process. Hitler had the might to murder all those Jews but that's just the rules of the game, I guess. Yeah, a bit unfair.

  • 'NYT' piece on nationalism as a cause for ethnic cleansing leaves out the Nakba
    • Taub is concerned with majority ethnic groups ethnically cleansing minority groups. At the time of the Nakba, Jews were a minority ethnic group even inside the borders of what is now considered Israel.

  • Avishai's prophetic 'Tragedy of Zionism' was denied by Jewish community 32 years ago
    • "the Palestinians embarked on a campaign of cross-border raids and terrorism, ..."

      I suppose this is Avishai's view, but it it's far from correct. According to Benny Morris, thousands of refugees were slaughtered attempting to return, but their goal was mainly economic or social - collecting harvest on farms they'd been forced out of, visiting relatives, employment or theft (after all, most of their worldly goods had been looted by Israel). In the years following 1948, raids and terrorism by Palestinians were rare, a few hundred Israelis, mostly armed guards or police were killed in the course of trying to prevent Palestinians from accessing their former land. There was no campaign of cross-border raids and terrorism. Cross-border raids by Israel less so.

      From your review, the whole thing sounds like a lot of "shoot and cry" that zionists are so famous for.

  • 'You are thieves of history!' Hotovely tells Palestinians, waving books at them
    • Do you ever notice how zionists co-opt the language? For example claiming Jews have right to "self determination" in Palestine. Removing illegal settlers would be "ethnic cleansing"

  • Anti-Semitism accusations against 'Dyke March' prove pro-Israel lobby will torch LGBT rights for marginalized people
    • "Jew Dyke" used to sound like an insult. On the "Wider Bridge" website mission statement, there's a lot about supporting Israel and virtually nothing about dealing with the specific issues Jewish LBGTQ folk face, e.g., the aforementioned term sounding derogatory.

      At least the the Chicago Dyke March folks are proudly trying to take the insult out of "Dyke". It's pretty clear the "Wider Bridge" is more about supporting Israel than LBGTQ rights or supporting the other "diversity" issues in Israel they claim.

  • Israel provoked the Six-Day War in 1967, and it was not fighting for survival
    • So a lot of Nasser's rhetoric was prefaced with "If war comes," "If we're attacked"

      Nasser, as quoted in, a Zionist site:

      "...I gave my instructions to all UAR forces to be ready for action against Israel the moment it might carry out any aggressive action against any Arab country. Due to these instructions our troops are already concentrated in Sinai on our eastern border. For the sake of the complete security of all UN troops…I request that you issue your orders to withdraw all troops immediately. [5] - written request from Nasser to Commander UNEF (Gaza)

      "The existence of Israel has continued too long. We welcome the Israeli aggression. We welcome the battle we have long awaited. The peak hour has come. The battle has come in which we shall destroy Israel." - Cairo Radio

      In other words, Nasser even in his bellicosity, mostly didn't propose to initiate the war. He proposed to annihilate Israel if it attacked. On the other hand, Israel had attacked across its borders many times.

  • Banned from Boston transit stations, pro-Palestine group drives mobile billboard in city streets
    • prohibiting all ads concerning “economic, political, moral, religious, or social issues.”

      That covers pretty much all ads

  • Leonard Cohen song is anthem of Jewish exclusivists
    • At the time, he probably was unaware of the ethnic cleansing. Most of us weren't aware in 1967. It was, and is, easy to get caught up in pseudo-religious fervor.

      On what was probably his last tour in Israel, I emailed him to beg him to boycott. He didn't do so, but tried to set up a concert in Palestine. Failing that, he donated the funds to a foundation dedicated to reconciliation and peace (which now appears to be defunct). I like to think that if he'd been born a generation or two later, he might have been more of an anti-zionist. However, he wasn't, and as much as I love his music, I have to regard him as one of the "bad guys" who won.

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  • Why are Israeli children brainwashed to hate?
    • Yes, someone posting might have misspelled it as Alesheva

    • The video appears to have been subtitled by someone Arabic, so if it's labeled in an amalgam of Arabic and Hebrew, it says nothing about whether it was staged or not. The video itself seems as genuine as any. I can't imagine anyone "staging" the scene with such perfect attention to costume and attitude. I can't attest to whether the subtitles are correctly translated or anything else.

  • Map map on the wall, who's most existing of them all?
    • @JeffB - Zionism is all about giving privileges to Jews and only Jews in Palestine. MHughes didn't push for an argument where people's rights are dependent on their ancestry. You have, like most Zionists, based your arguments on imaginary facts and in utter violation of logic.

    • "And it has been illegal for states to acquire territory by war, not parties in a civil war."

      Since the 1948 war was (you say) a civil war, and only Palestine existed at the beginning of it, it was Palestine's civil war and all the territory Israel acquired in that war was illegally acquired.

    • @JeffB,

      You seem to be under the impression that anything a "governing power" does is legal. In particular, confiscating property of a non-favored ethnic group for the benefit of the ethnic group that the "governing power" claims to represent. When the Nazis confiscated property from Jews they expelled from Germany, for the benefit of "Aryans", was that legal? When they took over large swathes of Poland and Denmark, and then "governed" them, would it have been legal for them to install German civilian colonies all over France and Greece, and drive out the local French and Grecians so that the Aryans could live in "security"?

    • @JeffB "Jew is just a translation of Judaean"

      No, a Judaean is a person from Judaea. A Jew is a member of a religious/cultural group.

      Having contact with ancient Jews (circa 1300+ years ago) is exactly how the Khazarians converted. Ancient Jews sent out proselytizers. The actual Jews who were proselytizing at that time were more likely from Mesopotamia, they weren't Judaeans.

      @Jerry Hirsch

      Actually, the Khazarian theory is supported by DNA evidence, see

    • Since the Crusader state of Jerusalem was an independent and sovereign entity, that must give every Christian in the world the right to move to Palestine and form an independent, sovereign Christian state there, and terrorize, massacre or expel most of the existing Jews in order to create a solid Christian majority. Also, because, as we all know, Palestine is the Christian homeland (I mean, Jesus walked there).

  • Gilad Atzmon’s attack against me – the 'merchant of JVP'
    • If you are a Jew who intends to become an Israeli, I think that makes you a Zionist.

    • The problem I have with a lot of this blaming by Atzmon of Judaism (or Jews) for a bunch of ills, is similar to the problem I have blaming any other religion for a bunch of ills. Sure, ala Israel Shahak, you can dig up a bunch of talmudic thought advocating mass murder of innocent civilians and, as Max Blumenthal noted, truly believed and taught by certain Jewish religious leaders. Rather horrible stuff. But I don't personally know any Jews who actually follow that kind of thinking, virtually all my Jewish friends and acquaintances are atheists who believe in equal rights, abhor genocide and so on. When I look at it, that Judaism and this Judaism are radically different sets of beliefs. So as far as I'm concerned, it's not up to me to say what someone else's beliefs are, and if they want to call their beliefs Judaism and themselves a Jew, I'm not about to argue. And only blame the ones who actually advocated genocidal acts.

      In answer to the question, 'Do you really believe that the Jews or the Israelis can “stop it now”?' or a lot of the others, I'd probably just say, 'Do you really believe that humanity can “stop it now”?'

  • Mass Dems move to kill anti-settlement resolution, amid fears of BDS and 'exodus from party'
    • If there was an exodus of party leadership, it might not be a bad thing. The leadership got Trump elected.

  • 'Why do I not cry out for the right of return?' -- an exchange between Uri Avnery and Salman Abu Sitta
    • To Avnery:

      "True peace is not merely the absence of tension: it is the presence of justice." - MLK

  • Trump dines, Arabs die
  • Passover has become little more than an act of communal hypocrisy
    • So religious advocacy of freedom from slavery for humans is more or less the same as preaching animal sacrifice, in the mind of a Zionist

  • You know your country's in trouble when you're afraid to put on a bumper sticker
    • One of my friends with a free Palestine bumper sticker went to a pro-Israel town hall put on by a local congressman. Some other attendee called the police and reported her for terrorism. Another has had her car vandalized.

  • Read the full translated text of the leaked Hamas charter
    • I sort of quibble over only allowing "Palestinian" ethnicity to be passed through the father.

      The cynical side of me notes that the Zionists, at the same time they were conducting a campaign of mass murder on ethnic grounds, promised the "State of Israel would be based on freedom, justice and peace as envisaged by the prophets of Israel; it will ensure complete equality of social and political rights to all its inhabitants irrespective of religion, race or sex;" I would trust Hamas more than the Zionists in maintaining equality regardless of creed, although, they do have a religious agenda.

      The phrases regarding forgiveness speak a lot. Despite my quibbles, I think it's a pretty positive document.

  • Actor Richard Gere in Hebron: 'it's exactly like what the what the Old South was in America'
    • Jewish nationalism is condemned because it promotes invasion of Palestine as well as mass murder and expulsion of the non-Jewish people of Palestine on top of special privileges for Jews. "Aryan" nationalism or nazism wouldn't have been so bad if it didn't promote invasion of "non-Aryan" countries and mass murder and expulsion of "non-Aryan" people of Europe or Germany, or special privileges for "Aryans" in Germany.

      Palestinian nationalism has historically promoted equal rights regardless of creed.

  • Towards Better Ally-ship for Palestine: A letter to the US activist community
    • '“Palestine as an age-old culture and place that is magnanimous in legacy and gravity in comparison to Israel, a sixty-eight-year-old novice”

      That’s erasure of Jewish history. Jewish history in the region dates back thousands of years.'

      Nonsense. Jewish history isn't Israel's history. Israel's history is only 68-69 years. Palestine's is thousands, and the Jewish contribution to Palestine's history is relatively minor, however large it looms in the religious minds.

    • I like "Palestine," it's explaining it to others that I get in trouble.

      I suppose there's always those you can't talk to.

    • Then there are those who think "Arab" and "Muslim" are interchangeable...

      I sometimes try to get by with "historic Palestine" instead of "Israel/Palestine", but then people make even more ridiculous claims, such as "Jordan is Palestine"

    • I fully understand you don't want the area referred to as Israel/Palestine, but how should I refer to it, in particular when speaking to people who are really familiar with Israel, but not so much Palestine? You have a lot of recommendations on what not to do, and a lot fewer of what to do.

      I'm happy to argue with anyone who denies that the Palestinian people are the area's indigenous people. A helpful way of educating the ignorant would be useful.

  • Regarding the anti-Semitic, anti-Black, anti-Arab and anti-Muslim posters on UIC’s campus
    • So wealth buys privilege. What else is new?

      That's not the same as Jewishness buys the privilege of entry into elite schools, as the poster implies.

    • (sorry, ment to make this a response to addictionmyth)

      All the posters make good points, except that the high proportion of Jewish students probably isn't so much due to "privilege". I don't think they look much at religion in admissions, just ability of the parents to give very large donations and qualifications. I think that poster is anti-semitic entirely.

      Also, expressing "dissenting opinion about history" may be a human right, but it's also anti-semitic in the example given. So the poster is expressing support for anti-semitism. I believe it's a right to be anti-semitic. Other countries have laws against expressing racism or religious hatred. I don't think, for the most part, the laws single out anti-semitism, although they may be selectively applied.

    • I guess #IStandWithSteven isn't in fact a code for #StandWithUs

  • No space for Zionism
    • Right, Palestinian citizens of Israel get to vote. Except, most Palestinians who originally came from what's now Israel don't get to be citizens.

      The zionists spent considerable effort propagandizing Jews of the other Middle-Eastern countries to emigrate to Israel. So, a lot of them left and joined the JSIL, to become enemies of their country of origin, though to be fair the zionist propaganda made people suspicious of Jews anyway. I don't notice that they're clamoring to return, but if they did, I'm sure it could be arranged.

  • Finders Keepers in the Holy Land: So who was there first?
    • @jeffb

      "I don’t consider a government regulating propertywithin its domain including exercising eminent domain (at an above market price) to be theft though. "

      When a government such as Israel exercises eminent domain in order to confiscate property from the people of one ethnicity and use it to benefit their favored ethnicity, that's apartheid.

      When a government such as Israel exercises "eminent domain" in areas beyond its territory and in order to benefit people of one ethnicity, that's also theft. If that government evicts people under threat of mass murder, that's also theft.

      If you consider Israel's regulating of property a simple matter of exercising eminent domain, you are very far away from supporting equal rights.

  • The Quebec mosque shooting and the Zionist connection
    • I can't find anywhere in the undp report that says 45% of global terrorist attacks are due to the 5% of the world population that is Arab.

      And, as someone pointed out, the term "terrorism" is more of a pejorative than useful definition when it comes to determining motive for violence.

  • Leading Clintonite worries that Trump will sell out Israel in forging deal with Russia
    • After the Zionist wing of the Democratic party threw so many progressive (and not-so-progressive, like Obama) Democrats under the bus for not being pro-Israel enough, I don't have any sympathy.

      I don't know why "Israel's interests" are so much more important to anyone than, say, Argentina's or Bangledesh's. Or more important than seeing something close to equal rights for Palestinians be enforced in Israel. Israel regards as its interest the theft of land from Palestinians and expulsion from their land. This isn't something that should be on America's priority list.

  • Ellison assures Dems he has made up with Haim Saban despite 'anti-Semite' accusation
    • Ditto

      Even after selling out, they can't win elections. Maybe in large part because they've sold out, and people know it?

      Of course, I don't know that electing sell-outs is that much worse than electing the party of the people they've sold out to.

  • Palestine in the Democratic Party platforms: 1988 and 2016
    • I keep repeating it, but I still think the Democratic Party "broke apart" because of the pro-Israel crowd. The party (at least the leadership) distanced itself from Obama in 2010 because he wasn't pro-Israel enough for them, and as a result they lost big.

      Jesse Jackson should not have told the pro-justice movement to hold off in order not to break apart the party, he should have told it to the pro-Israel crowd. They were and are the ones willing to break the party up rather than give up unqualified support for Israel.

  • 'Love thy neighbor as thyself' -- Really?
    • It isn't up to me to interpret Judaism or tell anyone what their religion is, if some Jews want to interpret "neighbor" in most universalist way it's not for me to tell them no, they're interpreting it wrong.

      I agree about similar mechanics with Islamophobia, people go fishing through the texts to find something bad to pin on Islam. There's plenty to find in all the Abrahamic texts.

      However, I did read the business about goys being closer to cows than to humans on the Chabad web site several years back, so that interpretation exists, and it's not, apparently, a particularly fringe belief within Judaism (or maybe Chabad is fringe, I don't know). It's not me doing the interpretation, it's leaders of certain strains of Judaism doing the interpretation.

      As far as Jews using Judaism to support ethnic nationalism, lets talk about Zionist Jews.

  • Why a Texas rabbi keeps losing a debate over Israel with a white nationalist leader
    • Unfortunately, Spencer has a good point.

      I don't know what Rosenberg means by radical inclusion, I don't think studying other people's religions is at all necessary for loving other cultures, or practicing tolerance. Nor is excluding people of other cultures from one's territory or civic participation necessary for whites to "have a sense of themselves"

      The whole Middle East wouldn't have to move to Israel, just its indigenous Palestinian population could move back and Rosenberg could have some radical inclusion.

  • Saban calls Ellison 'clearly an anti-Semite' (and not on Wikileaks)
    • I guess Ellison's pandering, disavowing BDS, isn't helping him either.

      Maybe the problem with the Democrats is they're such panderers in the first place. The Republicans are honest racists.

      Edit: I don't mean all Republicans, many I've known are just practical people, and lots of Democrats are racist as well.

  • Deborah Lipstadt's double standard on white nationalism and Jewish nationalism
    • Phil - "I would argue that Hillary Clinton’s Zionism contributed to her defeat; and that once Jewish nationalism is exposed for its actual accomplishments in Israel and Palestine, Zionists are sure to lose this debate among freedom-loving Americans. "

      Maybe it isn't Zionism specifically, but her toadying to foreign interests to such and extent, on top of the finance business sector. Nor did Democrats or anyone like the idea that rather than she was nominated not so much by people, but designated by the un-elected Democratic party insiders as the nominee.

      The Washington insiders, pundits and all have pushed the idea that we have to defend Israel at practically any cost, but it never rings quite true especially to more nationalist-minded Americans. Trump's ads pushed the same buttons in people that antisemites push, linking Clinton with nefarious global bankers.

  • I'm not worried about anti-Semitism
  • When Sanders changed political reality. And hasbara culture slapped him down.
    • I really think the zionists undermined Obama in 2010 because he wasn't perceived as sufficiently pro-Israel, at that time the democratic party leadership backed away from him instead of getting behind him. The consequence was the democrats lost the house, and then the senate. The democratic party leadership backed Hillary in 2016 in large part because she was so pro-Israel.

      I have no smoking gun for this, other than the current emails.

  • Epic battle looms over accused anti-Semite entering White House, and 'NYT' graywashes the moment
  • Where do we go from here? Our thoughts & yours on the US election
    • The pro-justice for Palestine movement should double down on its anti-racist, anti-antisemitic aspects. They should reach out to low-level Jewish organizations like local synagogues or Jewish centers (not the ADL, Hillel or national groups, which have been captured by Zionists and probably can't be moved) and re-iterate their support in the fight against real anti-semitism. And slip in some real history.

  • 'The era of the Palestinian state is over' -- Israeli right celebrates Trump win
    • I guess all Clinton's pandering to the pro-Israel lobby didn't help her.

      As horrible as she is, I'm sorry she lost, because of all the other issues, like climate change and health-care.

      I don't think Trump is capable of being more than a mouth-piece, but after all, in one of the debates, he presented a slightly more accurate idea of who was fighting who in Syria. Someone must have fed him that, because it's clear he doesn't know what he's talking about in general.

      While the Israeli right-wing may have an affinity for Trump just as the KKK, who knows what direction he'll go?

      In fact, I blame the Israeli lobby a good measure for the Democrat's downfall. I think Obama has always been seen by them as not pro-Israel enough, and because the lobby has such a lock on the party insiders, they didn't get behind him, or let him campaign for them in 2014. The consequence was they lost both houses, and Obama faced yet more obstructionism.

  • 'Atlantic' editor says that Israel's 1948 expulsion of Palestinians was not 'a tragedy'
  • The dark side of Jewish consciousness: manufactured anti-Semitism
    • I agree that "Marcus has shown us once again the face of hatred recycled over and over again by propaganda and the racist agenda of Zionism."

      I'm not sure Berkowitz was suppressing free speech by caving in. And, I don't know that the discussion would have been any better with the two of them together, I doubt Marcus is open to intellectual exchange.

      I think you might want to clarify the paragraph that begins "We who are Anti-Zionist and not anti-Jewish (and/or) Jewish ourselves must resist dangerous attempts to discredit opposition by promoting a “false” anti-Semitism while attempting to blur the reality of unending racist violence against Palestine and Palestinians"

      I think you mean "discredit the pro-Palestinian rights movement" or something like that, as worded it sounds like "We who are Anti-Zionist and not anti-Jewish (and/or) Jewish ourselves must resist dangerous attempts to discredit [the pro-Zionist movement] by promoting a “false” anti-Semitism ..."

  • 'Personally I was glad to see the outpouring of anti-Semitism,' says Jewish journalist targeted by haters
  • Israel supporter refuses to share Bard stage with Dima Khalidi and cites stereotypes about Jews smelling bad
  • ADL throws Netanyahu under the bus to try to make new friends
  • Dozens of Spanish cities declare themselves ‘Free of Israeli Apartheid’
    • @jackdaw "Actually, the Jews are the indigenous people of the area."

      In fact the vast majority of Jewish people who lived in Palestine before the Arabs came "from Arabia" had adopted Christianity in the preceding centuries. In fact, most modern Jews are primarily descended from people who converted to Judaism outside Palestine. Except a tiny minority, Jews aren't indigenous to the area of what's now Israel.

  • Pro-Israel groups close in on anti-BDS victory in California legislature
    • Also, there's the law itself. By singling out bans on discriminating against persons of Jewish faith, it itself discriminates against persons of non-Jewish faith.

    • It would seem that paragraph k:

      (k) It is the intent of the Legislature to ensure that taxpayer funds are not used to do business with or support discriminatory actions against any individuals.

      Would allow a host of suits to ban taxpayer funds used with Israeli government entities or companies that do support discriminatory action against individuals of Arab or Palestinian heritage. For example, the police visits to Hebron.

  • Sam Harris and the politics of 'good intentions'
    • "This is a strange post. Sam Harris is a credentialed propagandistic jerk who earns his living as an apologist for imperial interventions. Shaukat Ansari should easily be able to shred Harris’s pilpul without dragging in Noam Chomsky, which only serves to provide the illusion of gravitas to Harris’ agitprop."

      Indeed he does earn his living that way, and also by spreading Islamophobia. However, he has an adoring fan base, who will never realize Harris's pilpul has been shredded.

  • Ozick says Obama needs 6-volume history of Jews on his bedside table
    • I think it's fake, drummed up concern for anti-semitism. I can't remember a time when criticism of Israel hasn't been called anti-semitic. Or there wasn't a lot of racism against Arabs by supporters of Israel.

  • Elie Wiesel is Dead
    • I'm really sorry Wiesel will be getting so many wonderful obits that don't mention his retched attitude towards Palestinians. I really appreciate this one.

    • "Paradigm shift is the phrase that comes to mind. Ben Gurion posed the question, 'Does zionism need peace in order to be a success?' His answer was, no. "

      Highly appropriate answer. Zionism needs war to be a success. Obviously, accompanied by mass murder and terror.

      With respect to Mark Ellis's post, I only quibble with the following:

      "Through Wiesel, Christians became heavily involved in the meaning of Holocaust suffering and support for the state of Israel without regard for the plight of Palestinians. Christians averted their eyes. Christians became corrupted through support of Jewish power against others."

      I don't know about Wiesel being the primary conduit for Christian involvement in the meaning of Holocaust suffering or support for Israel, or corruption (I suppose a conduit). My introduction to the Holocaust was Anne Frank's diary, and I suspect Christians were corrupted anyway.

  • 'My country right or wrong' -- indoctrination in defense of Israel
  • Saying Israel has no right to exist as a Jewish state is not anti-Semitic
    • Technically speaking, the majority of Gaza's population is the byproduct of land theft and ethnic cleansing - that is by Zionists who expelled much of the population of southern Israel into Gaza. The same goes for Jordan - majority ethnically cleansed Palestinians.

  • Harvard biotechnology conference whitewashes Israeli occupation
    • The idea of studying genetics in order to determine who has certain political privileges and who doesn't, as in the "kinship" talk, seems racist to the core. Forgive me for bringing in the nazi reference, but it seems exactly what the nazis would have loved to do to achieve racial purity.

  • Advice to British leftwingers on kicking racism out of their anti-Israel rhetoric
  • Shocker: 'NYT' forum on anti-Zionism tilts toward equating Zionism with racism
    • @David Doppler,

      Were all the people who form the indigenous population of what's now Israel to live there, it would not be a state with predominately Jewish people. Any ideology which seeks to exclude the native people of its land from life in in that land and participation in its government is by nature racist. There might be some minute form of Zionism that supports the right of return for exiled Palestinians. You are arguing Zionism isn't racist because only 99.99999% of Zionism is a form of racism?

      And why do you think that a state which denies its indigenous population the right to live there has any "right to exist?"

  • Finding 1 'Arab' in Israeli basketball, NY Times espouses Zionist racial theory
    • Well, at least they didn't (judging by the quotes) trot him out as an example of Israel's wonderful ethnic diversity and lack of state-sponsored racism. Although he does seem to be somewhat characterized as a "good Arab", one who doesn't care about politics.

  • Young liberal Zionists, it's time to let go and move on
    • Thank you, Robert Cohen

      Yes, I can sympathize with your hurt at seeing the Star of David used in such a way. I myself am guilty of giving up when talking to zionists and calling their stance B.S. It's not that I think zionists are evil, more that they're in the main deluded. But I also see this twisting of facts and meaning that you note, some (if not all) of it deliberate manipulation by zionist propagandists, so I don't entirely blame all zionist Jews for being deluded.

  • Zionism is finally in the news, as officials seek to conflate anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism
    • If a central part of any religion includes supporting mass murder and acquisition at gunpoint of the property of any other people, I guess I can say I'm centrally against that religion, and if the people of that religion who practice mass murder and acquisition at gunpoint of the property of any other people, I'm against those people.

      Well, anyone can say God told them something belongs to them and then take it. Like, say, that bank over there or some jewelry in a local department store. Does it give them a right to practice their religious beliefs?

      Whether or not acquisition of Palestine is a Jewish religious belief, it gave the zionists no right to acquire it by means of mass murder or force of arms.

    • "On a more practical level, opposing Zionism really does mean opposing an awful lot of Jews “as Jews” — in the sense of opposing a core element of their individual and collective Jewish identities. Not hard to see why that would be perceived by so many (Jews and non-Jews) as anti-Semitism."

      For a lot of white people, it may be that support of Aryan nationalism is a core element of the individual and collective white identity. Does that make being anti-Aryan nationalism the same as being anti-white person?

  • Most Jews want to expel Palestinians -- Pew's ugly portrait of Israel
  • Why I support a one state solution and still consider myself a Zionist
    • I am willing to forgive some Zionists who went to Palestine in the past because of misguided ideas about the Zionist project, or especially as refugees, but who now ascribe to equal rights in particular the right of return and compensation for Palestinian refugees and their descendants. It's not clear Becca believes in that right, it's possible she still believes in exclusivity for Jews. And I'm not Palestinian, I really have nothing to forgive anyway.

      That being said, "self-determination" is a right in particular of indigenous peoples to be free of colonizers and colonizing authorities, and to rule themselves. In this case, Zionist Jews are the colonizers and colonizing authorities, they aren't the indigenous people of Israel/Palestine, they have no right to form their own governmental structures there in the absence of freely given permission by the majority of it people which would include all exiled Palestinians and their descendants.

      As with the usual Zionist Orwellian perversion of language, "Jewish self-determination" is in fact, nothing more than the Zionist claim that Jews have some right to colonize and ethnically cleanse to create a Jewish state where they aren't the native people.

  • Jews aren't special
    • No, that's not what Ofir said. He said the anti-semitism by non-Jews and Judeo-supremacism by Jews arise from the same element [of human culture, I guess]. He did not say either causes the other.

      I don't expect logic from Zionists, of course. I do expect Orwellian twists of language and perversion of what people say to serve Zionist propaganda. No disappointment here.

    • I'm not sure what my tribe is, but I don't love it above all others.

  • Tackling Islamophobia means challenging Trump, and your neighbors
    • We also need to tackle popular culture - i.e., t.v. and movies. Video games and novels too. Action-oriented ones tend to be full of stereotypes. I think I might start there.

  • The Mukhtar's sworn testimony - more on the 1948 Dawaymeh Massacre
  • Video: Sanders's campaign fact-checks Clinton's 'smear' defense with Elizabeth Warren charges
    • Hamas probably has some organizational support in Lebanon, just as they did in Syria. At the start of the Syrian uprising, I believe they sided with the other Sunni Islamic groups joining the uprising, against Assad in other words. As such, Hamas is probably more anti-Hezbollah and anti-Iran.

  • Jewish Voice for Peace and Jews Say No! take credit for faux 'NYT' highlighting biased coverage on Israel/Palestine
    • I don't detect any "balance" in the NY times report. It's full of excuses for the condemned murderers and examples of Palestinian violence. Like noting rockets from Gaza without noting the preceding numerous and virtually continuous attacks on Gaza by Israel. And also presents Israelis as virtuously condemning the murders, even as Israelis support and protect other Israeli murderers of Palestinians who entirely escape condemnation since their attacks are less gruesome.

    • Apt name though. Reminiscent of IDF snipers targeting Palestinian protesters or children.

      WZO and the like are sadly giving anti-semitism a good name.

  • Biggest loser in Iowa was foreign policy
    • "... Sandar's lack of a moral conscience ..."

      I regard it not so much as lack of a moral conscience, as utter delusion, which, as Phil says, is generational. Israel was the liberal cause of his generation. In the 1950s and 60s, the facts of the case were pretty well suppressed.

  • A Response to Ben Norton on silence over war in Yemen
    • Amnesty & the like have organized demonstrations at the Saudi embassy - about Raif Badawi I think

      To be sure I signed the petition they were circulating. It didn't seem that they circulated one about the Palestinian blogger condemned to death but they have notes about some others. It seems to be a different group than the Palestine activists. And of note, when the Syrians first started demonstrating against Assad, I was all keen to join on the side of rights and freedom, and even went to a couple of meetings, invited by Syrian Americans who were also part of the Palestinian freedom movement.

      However, at this point, there is no side to join in Syria, Assad is bad but ISIS seems worse. I don't take any side at this point, none of these groups are defenders of human rights and they're both destroying the country.

      I think there's a couple of issues with respect to Yemen here:
      1. The Saudi atrocities have been going on for maybe 2 years (?). The Israeli atrocities against the Palestinians have been going on for 68 years. It takes time to build a movement.
      2. Primary builders of movements in the past tended to be communist/socialist/"worker party" or maybe liberation theology people. No party in Yemen that I'm aware of fits that, so there's not much for these groups to connect with there. Palestine had a significant leftist group to connect with. The civil war in Syria really did split the leftists, because while it's clear (to me) Assad was a horrible dictator (hence most of the Syrian-Americans, supporters of the free Palestine movement that I'm acquainted with, favored his overthrow), other leftists were highly suspicious when the U.S. came out in favor of his overthrow and, suspicious of U.S. and Israeli meddling (probably rightly so) tended to support Assad.
      3. For El Salvador, there was a big contingent of refugees with access to local groups in the U.S., to talk about what's going on to the leftist groups. Similarly for Palestine and even Syria. I haven't noticed such a group from Yemen.
      4. Lets not forget the relative prominence of Israel in the media, compared to horrible atrocities in other places. 1000 innocent civilians targeted and killed in Yemen probably get less media play than one innocent Israeli civilian. So it isn't just leftists, and don't forget that leftists, like everyone else, cannot help being influenced by relative quantity of news.

      That being said, local leftists really are concerned, I think, but it takes more the form of organizing talks and giving to charity, rather than demonstrating or emailing senators

  • Roger Cohen and Jeremy Ben-Ami go on the road for the two-state solution
    • Shamir and his terrorist organization attempted an alliance with the Nazis. All the google sites that make the claim that the Palestinians sided with the Nazis are Zionist sites. 100%. Pretty much the only site I found which claims Palestinians agree that the Palestinians sided with the Nazis is this one: I can't translate what the person said, I doubt he speaks for Palestinians if he made such a statement.

      The French, The Romanians and people in a lot of other countries supported the Nazis a lot more than the The Palestinians. It's just propaganda.

    • The "Maps Initiative" states that The Palestinians sided with the Nazis in WWII. I believe that is 99.9% false. It also says Palestinians agree with that statement.

  • NYT's Rudoren says Mondoweiss critique of her recent article is 'nuts'
    • In the interview, Rodoren mentioned attacks by Palestinians on Israelis numerous times, but attacks by Jews on Palestinians once that I counted. Despite that Israeli attacks on Palestinians are far more common and lethal.

      The whole occupation of the West Bank is an attack by Israelis on Palestinians

  • 'NYT' and 'Newsweek' need to fact-check their propagandists
    • The Newsweek comment section is horrible, with people on both sides making genocidal statements.

    • "For the last few weeks, Palestinian terrorists have slashed, stoned, shot and rammed to death scores of innocent Jews on the streets of Israel."

      Maybe a score if you count "attempts" to stone or slash. "To death" might be taken as a dangling modifier. However, virtually none of this occurred on the streets of Israel, and most weren't innocent Jews, but ones guilty of directly aiding and abetting their government's illegal settlement enterprise, i.e., settlers. Maybe 2 victims were in Israel.

  • Video: 'One Word' ad campaign banned by Boston Metro -- again
    • Yes, one of the hecklers told Colbath-Hess that Palestinians should stop teaching hate. As if stating that "real Palestinian girls" would be wearing suicide vests isn't teaching hate.

  • Today's a day to grieve for Paris, not score political points
    • Let see, a lot of people on Mondoweiss make the [political] point that Israel should stop killing innocent people in its efforts to grab land and deprive Palestinians of human rights.

      Herchel's political point, he objects to the "savagery" people use defending their land or rights? He supports attacking innocent people in order to grab their land and force them off it?

      In it's politics, ISIS is much more like Israel, in that ISIS is also forcing people of religions it doesn't like from land they take over. If you look only at the tactics used by Palestinians and ISIS and the labels attached to them then you might see a similarity, just as France uses bombs from fighter jets, a similar tactic to Israel's. I think France should probably stay out of Syria, I have little trust in their motives, even if I have less trust in those of ISIS. Israel's fighter jets target and kill far more innocent people than the terrorists in France.

  • The US spends $35 billion on foreign aid . . . but where does the money really go?
    • Well, I have a theory - democrats have been losing in big part because when the pres was under fire they didn't stand behind him. Remember 1 or 2 election cycles ago when Obama was called "unpopular" and therefore didn't campaign? He's hated in Israel especially by the Netanyahoo crowd. So, pro-Israel democrats shunned him, and he got the "unpopular" label. He therefore didn't go out and campaign for any democrats, and whether or not he was as unpopular as polls suggested, he is capable of getting supporters out to vote. Result, democrats lost big time. What I'm saying is, the democratic party kind of destroyed itself in good part over Israel.

  • 'Why I am a Zionist'
    • And there's those wiccans, whose ancient homeland in Wales and Britain is now inhabited mostly by Christians. Certainly, wiccans have historically been far more oppressed, than Jews, and there is no Wiccan state, so they certainly deserve one. We should all help them invade Wales and Britain, terrorize and massacre and evict the non-Wiccans and establish a Wiccan state.

    • Well, in 1968 I was pretty much a Zionist, if I thought about it at all. I completely changed when I learned the facts of the case.

  • Video: Two prominent Israelis envision replacing Dome of the Rock with Jewish temple
    • The whole of Jerusalem was ruled by Christians prior to the Muslim rule. It was not Jewish.

      It doesn't matter whether Jews ruled the rock before the Christians, the vast majority of those Jews had by then converted to Christianity. Granted, the Byzantinian Christians practiced forced conversion as had previous Jewish rulers - unlike the Roman (pagan) and Greek rulers however oppressive they may have been, besides which, most Jews had already voluntarily adopted Christianity. The conversion of the people to Islam followed the Muslim conquest, slowly - the Muslims mostly didn't practice forced conversion especially in that area. Jerusalem and surrounding towns remained largely Christian for centuries following the first Muslim conquest.

      Yeah, I know, Zionists will make the argument that because some Jews unrelated to them owned a certain piece of real estate 2000 years ago, the real estate doesn't belong to the descendants of those people who have been living in or praying on that real estate since, but instead, to themselves, because they like it so much they worship it.

  • Fact Check: MSNBC’s Palestinian loss of land map
    • I doubt that the whole of the Golan Heights was Jewish-owned prior to 1948 as well. I mean, there are (or were) major Arab towns and 100+ villages there, ethnically cleansed in 1967.

  • State Dep't slams Netanyahu's Hitler story as 'inflammatory' and against 'scholarly evidence'
    • The FORMER, BRITISH, ZIONIST, JEWISH APPOINTED Mufti. He was appointed by Herbert Samuel, a Zionist Jew, British High Commissioner for Palestine.

  • Goldberg says the root of the conflict is the Palestinians' anti-Jewish 'narrative'
    • "the jews" wrote a lot of books you can by on amazon, that doesn't make them indigenous to Palestine/Israel.

      Much, probably most of the bible wasn't written by Jews, it's a collection of mythology borrowed from pre-existing religious groups. Yaweh, for example, was just one of the gods in the Canaanite pantheon.

  • Hillel Int'l champions animal rights activist to cover for its censorship of human rights
    • Isn't the Israeli army the one that at least twice destroyed zoos in Gaza, by bulldozing the animals alive in their cages? And there she is, touting veganism in the Israeli army

  • Jerusalem at a breaking point
    • I'm sorry you've been ethnically cleansed.

    • "Jewish state" says it all. Israel bans most of its native people from living there because they aren't Jewish. Others aren't allowed the right to life and may be murdered at will, simply because they aren't Jewish. You have a rather twisted idea of freedom and equality, when you support banning people from their own homes and land and taking their property because it's a "Jewish state".

      On top of that, the Temple Mount isn't even in Israel.

  • Roundtable on the Palestinian solidarity movement and Alison Weir
    • I honestly think Allison Weir has some latent or subconscious anti-semitism that she doesn't recognize, but consciously attempts to eschew by being fair. It perhaps manifests in a proclivity towards investigation of sordid deeds by Jews. But then her dedication to fairness takes over. Of course I don't know what's in her real heart.

      Yes, the article on organ harvesting veered off to alleged medieval Jewish practices when it could equally well have veered off towards organ harvesting world-wide. The latent anti-semitism at work? On the other hand, suppression of any investigation into sordid deeds by Jews, the suppression of news showing Israel in a bad light, is also a primary focus of Allison Weir's work. Well, anti-semites and pro-Palestinian justice people have some overlapping beliefs there, it's just that the anti-semites keep focusing on things that have been debunked, conspiracies, Jews causing all the world's problems, and so forth.

      Appearing on the racist radio show is troubling, as is any defense she made of the talk show host. I don't know if that defense was taken out of context, and I don't if she was thinking something around those thoughts that didn't make it out. The list of charges on the USC site is long, but largely against the radio host.

      I do find the JVP claim to be working in the "The Jewish tradition of justice" a little off-putting. I'm not versed in Jewish law, history or traditional practices, but, I mean, the U.S. also has a tradition of justice: just read the bill of rights. And also a history of slavery, Guatanamo, racism, wars and genocide. Of which there are also plenty of in the old testament, which I think is also part of the Jewish tradition.

      For the record, I've given both JVP and the USC donations, and will continue to do so. I think Allison Weir should do some honest self-criticism and self-awareness (and apologies), and maybe JVP some soul-searching.

    • I don't think Phil & co are anti-gentile whatsoever. JVP maybe a little.

  • It's not bigoted to call out the Israel lobby over Iran Deal
    • The accusations are no surprise either, since zionists have been accusing anyone faintly critical of Israel or the Israel lobby of being anti-semitic for as long as I can remember.

      The deal doesn't actually harm Israel, and is surely better for Israel than a war which would weaken the U.S. as much or more than the Iraq war. Those who oppose the deal because they're loyal to Israel aren't really doing Israel any favors. Speaking from my realist point of view. I might like to see Israel dragged down to where it will actually agree to equal rights for Palestinians (including the right of return) but I don't wish the U.S. to be dragged down with it.

  • Did the BBC cover up the anti-Semitism of Gaza's children?
    • It would be more precise for the children to say "A group of Jews known as Zionists who claim to represent all Jews everywhere are massacring us," however that would be a huge mouthful for any child.

      "The Jews are massacring us" is an accurate statement, if imprecise. It was "The Jews" who were doing the massacring.

      Why does the JC think that the massacre of 500+ children, by Jews, less important than the resulting attitudes among those who survived?

      By translating al-Yahood as Israelis, it seems more that the BBC is covering up evils done by Jews than covering up anti-semitism. However, I'm perfectly fine with their translation, it wasn't all Jews everywhere that did the massacre and it doesn't mean Jews everywhere are evil people.

      Cohen falls into that trap rather easily, making a bigger deal of anti-semitism than massacres of people.

  • The Iran deal: a triumph of irrationality
    • So who are those "Citizens for nuclear free Iran" who seem to have enough money to run ads during prime-time TV against the nuclear arms deal? Just curious. Those prime-time spots are usually used for car ads and the like.

  • How long will I have to convince liberals that Palestinians matter?
  • The 'Forward''s apprehension about sending a reporter to Gaza -- a further response
    • Daniel Pearl was investigating some criminal people, who murdered him. Whatever their stated reasons, it's more likely they killed him to prevent exposure of their criminal activity.

      Journalists in Gaza investigate criminal people, who all too often murder them. In Gaza, those criminals would be the IDF who murder more journalists than anyone. Whatever their stated reasons, it's more likely they kill journalists because of their ethnic background as well as to suppress exposure of their criminal activity.

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