Talkback,

Last time I checked, “Get well soon, Barry2.” wasn’t a citation to a reputable source.

Talkback,

Oy vey. Zionism is bad enough without claims that it helped the Nazis slaughter Jews. I’ve heard the claim once or twice before, but not from anyone worth believing. (The one person I remember was also claiming that our friends were conspiring against us.) Do you have any references on this coming from reliable sources? It’s such an unlikely and offensive claim that it’s really not worth touching without unimpeachable evidence.

Mooser, I’m not buying your stinking band uniforms ;-)

wondering jew,

I can definitely understand wanting to use Palestine as an escape route from Europe during the Nazi period. There are even Palestinians who understand that. But Zionism didn’t start nobly and then become monstrous later on; the flaws were present from the start. One could certainly be an idealistic Zionist at many times during the history of Zionism and Israel, but the enterprise has always required people who recognized that the Arab population has stood in the way of a Jewish state.

I think that we’ve gone overboard in questioning people’s mental health here. I saw some justification for doing so when a certain person kept claiming that my comments here were disingenuous and part of a coordinated effort. But in general, we’re not going to bridge any differences by applying psychiatric labels to people whose statements we don’t like. I realize that some of this may just be ideological jousting, but the intentions behind people’s remarks are harder to read online than in real life.

Mooser,

Whatever thread “left-wing antisemitism” got mentioned in, I considered the term itself a new branch of the discussion.

Mooser,

The thread referring to “left-wing antisemitism” hasn’t caught my interest, so I wasn’t able to tell what you were referring to or whether your comment was tongue in cheek. Assuming that anyone other than the moderator has read all of the comments on this post is assuming a lot. But feel free to give me the Cliff Notes version ;-)

Just calling it as I see it, Mooser. I’m still friendly with many of these people (though not anyone who’s called me a self-hating Jew). I’m just a thorn in their sides when it comes to Zionism.

Thanks, Talkback.

Thanks, annie.

eljay – “What is the name for the sickness – the mental illness – that afflicts Zionist Jews and makes them believe that their religion-based identity entitles them:
– to be supremacists;
– to a religion-supremacist “Jewish State”; and
– to do unto others all manner of “necessary evil” – such as “the cruelty of the nakba” – that they would not have others do unto them?”

For many Zionists, it just seems to be denial and defense mechanisms, plus cult dynamics. “We’re good; they’re bad; therefore, we can’t be doing what they’re saying we are.” “Oh, they fled in ’48 because the Mufti told them to, so that the Arab armies could wipe us out.” And so on. When you’re brought up to be a Zionist, and the indoctrination and warm feelings start when you’re too young to think rationally, you really don’t want to give it all up. And cult dynamics are in play, the way that Jews are told that enemies are all around them, including self-hating Jews, so the thing to do is to shut down the criticism, rather than listen to it. With all of that keeping most Zionists in line, I think it takes a relatively small number of people to actually be knowingly doing the dirty work. I’m not saying this to excuse this complacency or minimize its consequences; I personally stopped being a Zionist after a teenage study tour of Israel made it hard for me to ignore what was going on. (The tour was religious and Zionist, but not carefully controlled like the Birthright Tours.)